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Hello and welcome. You're listening to Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast
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network, our weekly podcast where we analyze the latest in advertising, marketing, customer behavior, and new
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product launches. I'm Barbara Khan, the Patty and JH Baker Professor of Marketing, and I'm joined by my co-host,
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America Reed, the Whitney M. Young junior professor of marketing and the brand identity theorist and the national
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broadcaster America. You've been like all over the media recently, haven't
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you? >> I have, Barbara, and I'm excited to be here with you back in the studio doing
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our thing on Marketing Matters. I have a question for you. It's 2026 and we're going to talk New Year's
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resolutions at some point. I'm going to give you my New Year's resolution. I
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have to dial in my nutrition. Okay? So, I have been talking to a lot of friends.
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I can be as healthy as you. You should not get healthier. >> But you know the thing I I you know I'm
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trying to do the workout stuff, Barbara, but I got I've got to get the nutrition
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piece right. I've got to get my macros. I got to figure out an efficient way
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that I can bring the nutrition the diet piece into this and to do it in a way that would be very cool. And so I'm
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wondering do we have anything on tab where we can talk about products, services that can really feed that kind
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of need? What have you got for me? >> So you're looking for a hack, huh?
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>> I'm looking for a hack. What what have you got? >> Well, lucky for you, we have with us
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Jorge Samayoa, who is the CMO of HelloFresh. And for those of you who don't know what HelloFresh is,
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HelloFresh delivers meal kits which are designed to reduce the friction and decision fatigue while trying to eat
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better, which is exactly what America's asked for. So, Jorge, thank you for being with us.
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>> Thanks to you guys. very happy to be here and listening to you is very exciting.
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>> Awesome. >> Well, Jorge, I'm looking at your background and before we get into your
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talking about HelloFresh, tell us why we should believe you. It looks like you have lots of experience, more than 20
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years or close to 20 years experience, including at PNG, PayPal, and now at HelloFresh. You do B2B, B to C, B to C,
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B C, B to B to C. [laughter] Anyway, tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to HelloFresh
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and why you believe in the HelloFresh model. >> Well, listen, I am born and raised in
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Guatemala. I'm an industrial engineer with a master in science in operations
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research. Uh, I started my career at Proch Gamble in Guatemala and then they moved their headquarters to Panama,
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their Latin America headquarters. So, I work there in multiple brands. As you know, PNG believes that 95% of their
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CEOs come from marketing. So they have a long history of believing on marketing as a function and they give you a P&L
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since you're very little. So I was 20 years old. They gave me Old Spice. My first P&L was $10 million and they're
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like, "Go grow it." But you don't have resources. >> That's one of America's favorite brands.
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>> Big time. Old Spice, right? That's an iconic brand, Barbara. Just like you're
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saying. Yeah. >> It was fantastic actually because I joined the moment when they have
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repositioned the brand to be more exciting. Right. You remember the the ad like look at me, look at your man.
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[laughter] >> No. It was a great campaign. I was actually in the before and then the
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after. It was great how we were pretty much chasing axe uh positioning like being trying to make men look good and
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hot for women and then it was more about like actually no what does that loser way we're like men. [laughter]
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>> So it was pretty fun. So you know pretty much PNG I I ended up spending about
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eight years working different brands Pantene Head and Shoulders Gillette uh always and Pampers. Um then I went on to
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do my startup for about two years and a half. I started in Latin America. It was
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pretty much impossible at the time to raise capital. So went on to the US. We ran out of cash uh as probably many
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fates of many startups. Uh and ended up working at PayPal uh for about five years on marketing and product
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management doing growth. And lately I joined HelloFresh about three years ago uh managing some of the growth channels
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uh eventually becoming the VP of growth and recently about six five months ago I
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became the CMO for HelloFresh uh US. >> Interesting. >> Wow, that's a pretty impressive
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background. So you know there's like a lot of question about there's a lot of
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competition in this field of nail kids and some of them that have like Blue Apron I think is one that hasn't done
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that well. um what's different about HelloFresh and you're in charge of growth. Where's the growth? [laughter]
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>> So, you know, despite we we we can believe that there's a lot of competition, right? But there's also a
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huge market out there, right? >> We definitely see everybody eats. Us [laughter]
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that at the you've got the whole world. >> Our addressable market is people who eat
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>> pretty much, right? [laughter] >> That's a good segment. But but if you
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start looking at when we narrow who are are actually people who really we can help, right? And we're here to serve
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them, right? People who really love home cooking, people who are trying to bring
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people around the table, enjoy [clears throat] the family moment, enjoy the meals, and that's kind of like what
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you see in our campaign that we just launched a few days back, which is nothing hits like home cooking because
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we honestly be believe that we're the champions of hope home cooking and we've
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been for a while, right? I think during the pandemic there is this sensation of like let's go and get collect the demand
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and you might see how the brand a little bit went away from like it's about discounts. It's about these things that
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we we were doing more like a tactical growth levers but you can see how more and more HelloFresh has become superior
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in its quality of products in its number of recipes um in in experiences like you
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know very very good on the consumer experience uh from the app and actually on the delivery. So
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>> from a positioning standpoint, we are the champions of home cooking and
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>> I think as you're talking, I noticed that RFK Jr., our health guru in the US,
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has recently taken the food pyramid and turned it on its head. And >> while I don't agree with everything RFK
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Jr. says, "I have to say the idea of eating fresh products and this move towards protein, I think there's a lot
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of consensus on that." And it sounds like what you're saying is is actually
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pretty consistent with the movement that he's saying, move away from ultrarocessed food, move away to healthy
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food. And it seems like what you're proposing on HelloFresh is is consistent
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with that direction. >> So HelloFresh has always been about real honest food, right? So, it's not that
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we're trying to lean towards or backwards or trying to be right or left or center.
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>> Well, I'm not trying to say you're trying to be political, but >> clearly no one wants to like weigh in on
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one politics or another, but I don't think that it's actually out of sorts
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with that move, you know? >> Yeah. If you if you think about it, we we've been trying to help people to eat
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more protein. If you see, we double our menu on proteins. We've been announcing
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this since since July. We have wholesome, we have fiber, we have pretty much all the the foundations that that
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right now the pyramid is is outlining, right? So again, if you if you think about it, we we're always about real
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honest food and we're about home cooking. We believe that if you cook more at home, you'll be healthier.
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>> One of the biggest challenges, right, that that people have when they start
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the new year is around how do I cook more at home and pretty fast, right, on the quitter's day, you kind of start
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seeing people giving up with their new year resolution because it's hard. It's
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hard to maintain a good healthy habit of cooking at home, right? And that's where
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HelloFresh comes in, right? Like we make it very simple for you. We make it delicious. We make it fun. We make it
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joyful for you. So that's kind of like where we we we really sit. Um we recently did a survey that was pretty
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telling for me. It was about 5,000 America Americans and about 82% said that 2026 was the year of the kitchen,
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meaning this is the year they're going to actually cook more at home. I was very excited because obviously it's part
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of our fear of the dragon or the tiger but they hear of the kitchen. >> Yeah, that's interesting.
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>> And and that pretty much, you know, we found that 30% of them feel that cooking
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them helps cooking at home helps them decompress. 80% feel better when they cook at home despite when only 8% feels
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good when they order food. So, it's just we know that home cooking is at the
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heart of Americans and we just want to be there to serve them better. I love this point because I I do want to give a
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bit more and I want Barbara jump in on this as well because I because your question when you asked about
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competition Barbara peaked something in my mind and I want to unpack it a little
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bit and it's the idea that okay you can go to the grocery store yourself buy all
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the stuff and maybe you're even doing the Costco model where you buy a bunch
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of stuff and then you you make a lot of stuff for the entire week or you have on
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the other end of the spectrum you have you just have it brought in right like an Uber Eats model or whatever and so
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and then there's There's like there's the prepared like meals that you can
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sort of bring in and they're already prepared. You just kind of heat them up
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in an air fryer or something. >> We're talking about people who eat. You're also talking about the whole
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world of competition. >> Yeah. So, it's like how do you how do you conceptualize that? Because what I'm
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hearing to Barbara's point, I'm hearing this human component where there's
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something social in this or there's something that there's there's a piece
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of this that's a collective thing that is a utility on top of the actual ingredients and eating and stuff. And is
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that that sounds like that's a big part of the model. Is that correct? Am I getting this right at all?
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>> I mean, you're getting it right. The big part of the model is we when when you
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think about HelloFresh started as we shouldn't waste that much food, right? So, you can see how when you go to the
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supermarket, you go to Costco or other competitors, right? you buy all these these uh groceries that you stock in
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your fridge and I'm pretty sure you open your fridge, you have like 10 bottles of
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something that you use once and then sitting there and you're hoping you're
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going to use it again, right? So, when you think about like food waste is one of the biggest problems we're tackling,
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but then you start seeing the convenience of it. You don't have to go to the groceries and spend hours trying
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to collect what you're going to order. Well, in this case on our or HelloFresh
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or our product brings the food packed already and whatever is in there you cook and it's perfectly made for the the
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portion. Let me let me push back on that a little so I understand your model like
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and and you know I don't mean to bring up the competition but I knew a little
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bit about Blue Apron and one of the things I had some friends who did Blue Apron and one of the problems was they
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had exotic ingredients and they made products that actually once the kit was gone people couldn't reproduce. They
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were using it to kind of not to make life easier. Actually I think that was positioned in How to Learn to Cook. And
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it sounds like what you're describing in HelloFresh is a different positioning
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than what I'm describing. Can you tell me exactly, you know, like what kind of
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food comes in the kits? How it says, you know, like I'm looking at the background
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that you sent us about your product and you say you leverage data also to figure
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out what what to put together. So exactly what is your model? >> So in terms of recipe development,
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right? Um we have one of the largest data sets around consumer behavior on choosing recipes right so that's a big
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mode right when when you see how they're choosing their meals >> uh and then we leverage that to like
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produce new concept of of recipes that we can use right that's one aspect of
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like innovation how we innovate on on different data fronts at the same time how can we customize more if you see our
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president uh Assaf did a good article on forbes around how we're Now thinking
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about going from a meal for the week to actually your meal, right? How can we are in ingesting more personalization
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into our decisions on how do we show those meals? Now in terms of unique of produce being honest,
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>> you can see how some producers you you can get them almost everywhere. But then
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how the recipe comes to light. We have fantastic developers. We have our head chef Michelle that you can see her all
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over our ads also. You can talk to her. Great. It's a great person to talk to.
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We develop in-house all these recipes and we think really clearly around what is the best for the customer. Ultimately
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we're trying to serve our customers, right? So we give them delicious food that is easy to make, right? Like people
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really struggle with a meal that takes more than 30 minutes. So the innovation is like how do you give great taste on
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less than 30 minutes, but then you have some people who are cooking so much that
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you can give them this specialty that you know some sophistication that they're willing to take. So
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>> um that's pretty much if you think about as a model we we leverage our user uh we
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give them great recipes once we start understanding more about them we can not only develop new recipes but at the same
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time be consistent with what they really want in their family. >> So what is that? So that's a that's
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really interesting because you know we're going to get into how artificial intelligence might be playing into this
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uh personalization protocol that you're talking about Jorge but talk to me a
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little bit about let's use me as a case example. >> Yeah let's use America.
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>> So [laughter] let's imagine that >> cooking let's start let's set you up
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Americas. >> Yeah let's exactly what you currently do. Do you cook? >> I I I do a little bit of uh I use some
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of these services. I don't do a lot of cooking because I feel like I'm one of
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these people, Barbara, where I feel like my time, first of all, I don't enjoy
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cooking. And I'd love for that to change if someone can teach me how to actually
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enjoy it. But, um, I'm I'm just I'm trying to be efficient, but get really
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good quality nutrients in the food that I'm eating. And so, I'm I'm paying a lot
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of attention to that. So, if I went to HelloFresh and talked to Michelle the chef, and said, "Listen, I I need like
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protein and I need, you know, disproportionate disproportionate amount of, let's say, clean protein and I had
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some other sorts of, you know, macronutrient sort of requirements. Would that is that the kind of input
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Jorge that I would be submitting or what what exactly would you be asking me in in the inboarding kind of process that
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would allow you and Michelle and colleagues to say hey we've got something for you Americas and you're
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going to love it because it's so well personalized. >> Yeah, you can actually see it. You have
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two problems, right? You have the problem of the cold start like you're the first time coming here. You can see
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right now if you go through a funnel we ask you different type of questions, right? Like what is your goal? What is
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your objective? What type of meals you like, right? uh and that that is kind of like the first input that we definitely
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use. Then we have the weekly cadence that you have on ordering food and we can start and on the app you can see we
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have health conscious, we have uh high protein, we have okay specialties, you have different sections that you start
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picking on and we have about a hundred recipes per week. So you have enough to choose and we obviously organize to
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>> that's cool. >> Pretty cool. It's pretty cool. So it really more like the input is not like
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hey this is my macros this is how I want to get it. It's more like the meals that
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you start picking and obviously on the meals we have all the nutritional facts. So you can also like what is good what
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is not and at the same time you can customize items like hey instead of turkey I want chicken or instead of got
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different >> veggies and then you pick those recipes and you send us all the ingredients.
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>> All the ingredients and the recipe and we have a recipe card too. So this
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recipe card is like >> I know you guys are fans on identity, right? And and and if you
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>> That's America. [laughter] >> So that is an understatement. But but I
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appreciate that shout out. >> It's not it's not an understatement.
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Actually a true believer in that because you have to think about what artifacts made part of your identity for the
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people who use it, right? Like >> this recipe card you can see on Facebook, you can see on social media
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how people like cook and they put the recipe card, they put the plate and they take a pictures like like I almost got
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it like similar to this. So, so it's like, you know, this this artifact of how they're showing their identity that
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they care about home cooking and their health of their family and themselves. >> So, so we send you that, we send you the
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meals, we send you the protein and once a week and then you put on your fridge and then every day you come out, you
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cook, you eat. >> There must be a part of this where you're encouraging them to docu Maybe
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this is true or not. Let me ask you, are you encouraging the consumers to like film the process, take a picture of the
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food, post it up, here's a hashtag, share it with Is there is there a protocol that's built into this?
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>> You know, there is a I will say a mile protocol on it where we do have certain
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I would say own channels where we like, hey, you want to share, but to be honest, our our our loyal customers love
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our product that they just do this like by themselves. Like if you look at our Facebook groups are not even ours. Like
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someone created it. They have thousands of people there and then they're the
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ones who are like incentivizing and we're just like, "Hey, can we participate?"
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>> Oh, that's better. You know, that's better. Authentic. >> Yeah. So, I would say our product, you
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know, touches a lot of people's hearts uh and lives every day and you can see
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how passionate they are because the product is really good. Um >> let me let me ask you a practical thing
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just because if I was going to consider this, I need to know it. What happens if
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you travel a lot or you don't want to do it? Like what are the rules of the service? How how how much do I have to
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buy or whatever? >> It's very simple. So as I will tell you as an example, my wife is also a CMO. So
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we both are quite busy. She travels full time. [laughter] >> So heavy users of the service.
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>> Yeah. So I one of the features that we have is the subscription, right? We
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don't see this as a constraint. We see as a feature because we want to help you. So, it's convenient. You forget,
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but you also have pause and cancel anytime. So, for example, right now, my wife is traveling on the 25th and she's
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like, "Hey, this week I'm going to be out. I'm going to be out. Maybe it's
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good for you to pause uh for that moment. I just pause that that box." So, you can pause the different weeks ahead.
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Um, and then if you like say, you know what, I'm going to be traveling for eight weeks. I'm just going to cancel
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instead of like pausing them and then I'll come back. That's also an option.
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So, it's not really a subscription where you're like locked in and you can't
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cancel. It's really about we see the subscription as a feature that will help
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you to set it and forget it type of thing. >> Interesting. >> Well, let me ask you one more question
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then I know he's bristling at it, but these are more in the macro kind of thing. Like there's two trends that I'm
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curious maybe you can talk about. One of them is what America started with. You know, it's New Year's Eve. There's got
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to be seasonality. Everybody's being healthy in January and they're not drinking and by February it's all over.
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You know, like I mean do you see that kind of thing? That's one trend. And the
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other trend I'm curious is how has GLP1's affected your business? >> Oh, interesting.
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>> That's a good one. So, let me talk to the first one. Um, historically,
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obviously the first two, three weeks before Quer's Day, you see a spike, natural spike of people really
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committing to the idea of staying healthy this year, right? This year has been interesting because we're seeing
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actually something more consistent, not so spiky. So which which gives me hope in in a sense that we know that
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customers are actually really trying to cook more at home and trying to be healthy right
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>> I think this whole health trend that we have over the last two or three years
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has been really good for all the business are trying to do the right thing which is real honest food right
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>> um so I would say micro trends we see health as an important matter but now
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it's not just on the first month but more like through the year you see people more concerned around health now
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the second part of GLP1 you know it's it's funny GLP1 one um for many businesses was bad. We actually have a
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menu for GLP-1 users. Uh and in the moment we saw that GLP1 had other needs, right? Like way more protein because of
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the muscle. >> So we went on and created a menu for GLP1 users and we launched it and and
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that's interesting. [laughter] >> Yeah. I I love that point, Barbara, because when when Jorge was talking
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about this and I asked him, you know, what's the protocol, the gateway to be
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able to start giving some input, it sounded like you have already sort of set forth some personas, some segments.
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That's the healthy guy, here's the weightlifter guy, here's the GLP person
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and and so on. And so starting with like some personas that can sort of at least
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because I think Barbara, you what what do you think about this? It's one of the
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challenges for me which is and I want to know how you handle this >> weightlifter guy. You're the
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weightlifter guy. >> I'm the Yes. I but I guess I'm also kind of a GLP1 person in the sense that I
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need more protein as well but not because I'm trying. >> Are you a GLP1? Are you
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>> I am not but but I have a disproportionate because I lift a lot of weights. I have a dis disproportionate
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need for protein. Uh so but but finding so but I love this point Barbara because
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a big challenge for me Jorge would be being overloaded. In other words, coming in too much variety and feeling
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paralyzed and not really having the experience that I need to have. >> You just want to eat steak every day.
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[laughter] >> That's it's literally that simple. Just give me a steak and get out of my way.
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But uh so to that point, like how do you and Barbara is a guru on variety seeking? How do you balance out,
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you know, figure out how much should I have? Not too much, not too little. How do you figure out that balance? Maybe
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that's a data driven question that you answer, but how what's the approach? So
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le let's talk about the the the person we're trying to serve in this case you
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right. So you have your own needs and you're very aware of your own needs right so we're we're here to serve you.
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So in a sense that we will show you the cards in a sense of like all right cool we'll start we'll show you the options
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and we immediately we'll start doing some analytics in the data science on on
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the back end trying to use some LTE tactics that will give us obviously what is the best recommendation we think will
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work for you but obviously with more usage we can understand much better what you really need and what and because
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immediately you start cooking you start seeing you're like oh this meal was probably way too high on calories or
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this one was too low on protein and at the same time we have options where you and double down the protein on the same
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plate. >> So, for example, this week I ordered some lamb chops and I said like 2x lamb
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chop, but I didn't know that I order another lamb chop. >> That's really cool.
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>> That's very cool. >> Massive amount of lamb chops. >> So,
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>> I would be 5x, but that's a whole another issue. So, [laughter] but if you think about it is you you
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have we're here to serve you. So, we really show you and we make best recommendations, but ultimately you're
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driving, right? You're driving your health. You're driving what you want to
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eat at home. So, we're we're here that to give you that option. Interesting.
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>> Let me ask you one more friction point. Like how do you deliver all this food?
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That's another thing. Like is it common in refri? I mean is it frozen or how
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does >> Yeah, that seems like a big challenge. Yeah, >> it is a big challenge. But we I think
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one of the strength that HelloFresh has developed over the years is a sophisticated distribution network um
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across the United States. um ultimately uh on on the actual process on like step
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by step I think the operations folks will be much better positioned to answer that but I can tell you is that we can
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get you fresh food to your door with definitely able to eat uh the moment you get it right and it comes with a box and
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the box you have obviously ice packs and you have your protein and you have your
00:22:40
produce and it's at your door and you you can get it immediately to your fridge
00:22:45
>> and you get it like a big package for the week Or is it is that how you get it
00:22:49
>> for the week and depending right this week as I told you I order lamb chops
00:22:53
because I really like those. So I order I I got two boxes. [laughter] >> Nice. Nice. Here's a question that I
00:23:01
think is is a little bit interesting as well. One of the things we always try to
00:23:04
do Jorge is project into the future and try to figure out you know what does what do things look like years from now?
00:23:12
And I was thinking about this, does HelloFresh have a strategy where they're
00:23:16
trying to build out build out the brand because you've given us a good sense of
00:23:20
the ethos here, but build out the brand and have a permission structure to do other kinds of things that you may enter
00:23:26
into market. So for an example, you know, could you could there be like a HelloFresh cooking school or partnership
00:23:33
where you're trying to actually like facilitate the love of cooking? >> How about a
00:23:37
>> Yeah. or or you know like other sorts of ways to build out the brand and engage
00:23:41
and and it's talk about that talk about some of the the interesting sorts of ex
00:23:46
product extensions that could that could be cool in the future. >> So something you can see from from our
00:23:52
recent campaign right is that we're actually competing to home cooking. We are going to be championing this. We
00:23:58
strongly believe that that's best for the customer and that also gives us more
00:24:02
breath in terms of what else can we do right uh I think in the past we've done
00:24:07
I would say almost everything you mentioned right we've done activations we do partnerships so I don't think from
00:24:12
a tactical perspective things might change that much I think where creativity will spark is more on now the
00:24:17
vector that we're going after which is home cooking right like we we strongly
00:24:20
believe that that's what the best thing is for for the consumer and that's why
00:24:24
we think we should be doing more of that so in the future I I'll Yes, as any
00:24:28
brand will will think of building their brand with different activities that that connect that message and that
00:24:33
identity. So yeah, that's something that >> I would say BAU in certain way.
00:24:37
>> Okay. >> Uh but the ideation, the creativity, I think right now is going to be a more
00:24:42
fun path >> and we were before. >> Let me get you guys thoughts on this
00:24:45
because it it sparked something that Barbara said a few minutes ago and this idea of Could you do something where
00:24:51
it's like you you you set it up for the family? In other words, there's four of
00:24:56
us and I'm going to give like the dad and the mom tasks. They're going to do a
00:25:00
certain preparation piece and there's another task for the 12-year-old that's
00:25:05
specifically designed for her or [laughter] him. >> Is that too much? Is this like way that
00:25:09
department's like, "Nah, this is getting too much at all." >> Uh that we have people who have reached
00:25:16
out to us thanking us that how we have helped them to teach their kids to cook since they're very young. So once they
00:25:23
go to college, their kids are like almost >> like very independent cooking, right? So
00:25:27
and and you can see across all our social listening many many families saying like hey this is my moment to
00:25:33
cook with my kid and I give them to you know wash the produce while I'm like
00:25:36
chopping and they season the meat or you know the fun stuff that that feels a little icky but trying to break the the
00:25:43
ice for the kids. So we do see that. >> I don't think we we have right now this
00:25:47
particularly like oh this step for each person. We have six steps usually >> pretty pretty standard, you know, wash
00:25:54
and produce, cut the to produce, prepare the meat, prepare the sauce, and cook. So,
00:25:57
>> so you have pretty much all of that already. >> What I love about this, Barbara, you
00:26:01
tell me your thoughts as well. I love this idea of like the the utility. There's emotions happening. You're
00:26:05
cooking with your family or friends or whatever. >> Oh, yeah. That's cool.
00:26:09
>> Yeah. The theory has to be this is transferring over to HelloFresh brand,
00:26:12
right? I mean, that's the whole point of this is like you're creating a a a
00:26:16
holistic content >> and then you're spontaneously creating your Tik Tok and you're filming it.
00:26:21
>> I love this. I love this. >> Yeah. You know, this is wonderful stuff,
00:26:25
but we are out of time. So, Jorge, I'd like the CMO of HelloFresh. I'd like you
00:26:32
to tell people where they can go to find out more about this and to sign up if they want.
00:26:38
>> Absolutely. They can go to hellofresh.com. uh you will see some very nice offers
00:26:42
for you to try the first time. You will have a fantastic onboarding that will tell you what kind of product you can
00:26:48
choose and hopefully we can serve you the best we can uh on that same day. >> That's pretty cool. [laughter]
00:26:54
>> That's awesome. >> Well, thank you so much for joining us. Um and that's all we have time for
00:26:58
today. I thank like like to thank all of you for listening and we'll be back next
00:27:03
week. Till then, this has been Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast network.
00:27:07
I'm Barbara Khan here with America Street. [music]