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The Justice Department, the FBI, and
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other federal agencies recently brought
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forward arrests and indictments against
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current and former NBA players and NBA
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coach as part of an illegal gambling
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case which has rocked the sports world
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at a time when gambling has become an
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important advertising partner for teams,
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leagues, and broadcast partners. So, how
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might the impact of this case impact not
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only the NBA, but leagues in general as
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we move forward? Rob Deji is a lecturer
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in the legal studies and business ethics
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department at the Wharton School who
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focuses on the cross-section of sports
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and business. Rob, great to talk to you
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again. How are you, sir?
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>> Always a pleasure. Nice speaking with
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you, Dan.
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>> Thank you. Uh look, this is obviously I
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think we need to distinguish this. You
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we have to separate this from the
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gambling that we see advertised on a lot
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of the uh on a lot of the sports
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broadcasts with some of these companies
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because there's an element of the
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criminal element the the families like
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Kosa Nostra as it was put by Cash Patel
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that is involved in this.
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>> Yeah, certainly. And they're definitely
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involved in the Chony Bilip side with
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the fixed poker games. uh and they have
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been involved for decades. Of course,
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it's only been in the last seven years
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or so that gambling has become not
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illegal in the United States and it's
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all being done state by state. And so,
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uh there's there's always going to be
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sports gambling and there's always going
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to be a nefarious element to it. The big
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difference now is the regulation that's
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possible state by state. the technology
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that allows you to identify uh strange
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uh patterns in sports gambling and the
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cooperation between the leagues and the
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um and the regulators to identify issues
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and get to them right away. Prior to it
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being legal gambling uh there that was
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all done in the dark and and you
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wouldn't find out for months after and
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after the damage was done. And seemingly
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with the case of Terry Roier, the player
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on the Miami Heat, it is, you know, how
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much he played in a game and what he did
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or did not do from a statistical end on
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that perspective that comes into a big
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play here. Uh, and he was investigated
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by the NBA, two years ago. They did not
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bring anything forward against him, but
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seemingly it feels like the the federal
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government may have a few more ways to
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kind of connect the dots here. Well,
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certainly they have a lot more power
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than just a private business like the
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NBA as far as subpoenas and accessing
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phone records and whatnot that the
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leagues can't do. He was cleared because
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there wasn't enough information to
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suspend him. But then after two years,
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so it's not as if the NB the FBI just
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took over and figured things out in a
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week. After two years, they came up with
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over 30 arrests AC across a wide network
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of people involved in this. Only three
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of them making it seem like it's not
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that big deal. It's only three NBA
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people, but three of the 30 uh have NBA
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ties. So, um the NBA is and all the
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other leagues are have spent have
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invested in integrity reinforcement or
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enforcement um aspects to to keep this
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type of thing to a minimum and jump on
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things when there are aberrations. But
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it seems like from the comments of David
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Stern uh recently uh there is a
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recognition that this is a concern and I
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guess they were working with the federal
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government helping them kind of move
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their case along and so I I guess the
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relationship between all of these
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leagues and the federal government is
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probably there as well.
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>> Definitely uh that security has moved
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beyond just physical security in the
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arenas and identifying these types of
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things. all the leagues have their
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ability to or are cooperating with both
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federal and state uh regula regulators
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to identify problems.
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>> I know you also wanted to talk about the
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component of prop bets which are
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obviously a concern I think for uh many
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sides of this uh story especially I
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guess including in the college athletic
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uh landscape. Yeah, I think colleges
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much more vulnerable because of the lack
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of uh or the lower dollar uh amounts
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that the players are getting paid if
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being paid at all. And it's not even
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just the athletes itself. A basketball
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player could go back and mention
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something to another student who's not
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at all on the team and could uh
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coordinate some kind of scheme in order
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to take advantage of insider information
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there. But prop bets are the ones that
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are most vulnerable to players
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manipulating without you know, in their
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mind significantly impacting the results
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of the game itself. Terry Roier, a bench
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player, so he only played five minutes.
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He didn't play his normal 22 minutes. Is
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that going to really make a difference
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in the outcome of the game? And I'm
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going to help somebody out here. I don't
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know if he's just looking to make a few
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50 $50,000 on the side when you're
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making $26 million a year or a friend of
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his that says, "Please, you just got to
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help me out. All you got to do is come
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out of one game." and he's vulnerable to
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that kind of
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that kind of uh relationship.
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So, uh prop bets, whether missing a
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second foul shot, we've seen it in Major
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League Baseball with the two pitchers
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that were suspended. You know, the first
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pitch is going to be a ball or strike.
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Well, I can get away with throwing a
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ball here uh and still get this guy out.
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So, I I can um I can manipulate the
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markets a little bit more. And both Adam
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Silver and on I'm not sure about the
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other professional commissioners, but
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certainly Charlie Baker on the NCA are
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campaigning hard for regulations to be
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in place to eliminate prop bets because
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they're the most susceptible element to
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being manipulated. Challenge is with
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sports gambling being legal in 38
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states, Puerto Rico and the District of
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Columbia, it's a state-by-state issue.
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It's not just one federal thing, and not
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everyone's necessarily going to get on
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board with changes. Still, the leagues
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really have to look at their processes
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in place to try and do whatever they can
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to eliminate this as much as possible. I
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don't know if you're ever going to be
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able to fully eliminate it, but you
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don't want to have instances like this
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where Chanty Bilips, the head coach of
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the Portland Trailblazers, is accused
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of, you know, working with uh, you know,
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working with entities that were running
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illegal uh, poker games,
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>> right? you certainly don't want them uh
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involved in in the darker sides of
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society. And the argument could be made,
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well, if they didn't have this and there
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was uh illegal gambling as it existed
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for years before 2018, uh there were
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many more things that were never
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uncovered. Now, we're able to get on top
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of these things right away. And there's
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two big incidents in the NBA in the last
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seven years. And maybe without this,
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there would be 10 or 20. Uh and so
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they're able to jump on it. They're
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certainly always examining ways to
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eliminate this as get it as close to
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poss to zero as possible, but in our
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hyperconnected world of social media and
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whatnot, the slightest infraction is
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going to be blown up tfold. How much how
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much also does this discussion need to
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include the question on player injuries
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and playing time? And you know, some of
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that information is held, you know, very
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tightly by the teams. Obviously, some
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leagues you have to give a report out in
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the NFL midweek. Uh but still it's it's
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a big concern here.
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>> Yeah, that's the usually that's done for
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competitive purposes, not to show any of
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your cards to your opponent in
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preparing. It just happened this weekend
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with Lamar Jackson and the Baltimore
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Ravens. He was cleared to play on
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Friday, but they changed their mind on
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Saturday. And so, uh that type of
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information has other ramifications,
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which is namely betting. And if there
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was something like someone manipulating
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that the communication channels for that
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to say we're not going to we we got some
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insider information that he isn't going
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to play but they're not going to say it
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till 3:00 on Saturday to protect to give
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the opponent as little time as possible
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to prepare. That also has the
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ramifications affecting the sports
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markets or the betting markets. So
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that's um that's certainly something
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that's continually being addressed.
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>> What needs to occur? What are we missing
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here? Or what are the leagues or the the
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the entities in this world missing that
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we need to have in place uh to to make
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this not as as much a concern as it is
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right now?
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>> Well,
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I don't know if it's any one thing, but
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the commitment to continual improvement.
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I think actually eliminating prop bets
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will help do this. I mean, if you
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eliminate prop bets, which the sports
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books are probably against because
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they're probably one of the more
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profitable areas. They're harder to do
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when you're when when everything's being
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un done on the up and up and you're not
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uh making a deal with a player to to do
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certain things. Um that will help
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eliminate or reduce the risk. You'll
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never completely go without it. Remember
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the Tim Donahe issue went on for years
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because he was in uh deep trouble with
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in his own gambling debts. Pete Rose
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issue uh going back to the 60s with Paul
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Hornig and he was just uh he was
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suspended for associating with hoodlams
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was the term all used.
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>> Um so uh this is always going to be
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something that you're on top of. I mean
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don't forget sports gambling has been
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legal in Europe for almost a century.
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Um, this is this is one of those risks
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and a lot of people making the
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comparisons to well they're selling
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alcohol and people are leaving games and
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getting in drunk driving accidents and
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the leagues are taking sponsorship money
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from the beer companies. Yeah, there's
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always there's nothing that is without
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risk
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and gambling is certainly the high
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profile thing because there's nothing
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more important to the league than the
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integrity of the contest. If you know in
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any way that the games are not done on
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the upper up and up in order for one
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side to win that there's some other
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motivation involved then you have
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nothing and that's where David Stern and
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Bud Celig before him and Paul Tagle and
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all the other commissioners of the
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previous generations were adamant
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against any kind of involvement. That's
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why you know the leagues all stayed away
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from a franchise or any kind of event in
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Las Vegas because Las Vegas was the host
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hub of gambling. And so now there's
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people raising questions and this just
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must might just be, you know, media
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people trying to get clicks. Should the
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NFL take its Super Bowl out of Las Vegas
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in 2029? Well, the vague the Raiders
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play there eight or nine times a year as
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it is.
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>> Yeah.
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>> And the and the Knights play there and
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the A's are going to play there. So, um,
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it's there's a lot of overreaction, I
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think, in the media to this whole issue.
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>> Rob, great to talk to you again. Thanks
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very much. All the best.
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>> Sure thing, Dan. Nice speaking to you as
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well.
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>> Thank you. Rob de Jesi who's a lecturer
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in the legal studies and business ethics
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department here at the work
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Are
