00:00:00
We know that brands are constantly looking to put themselves in the best light possible,
00:00:03
but in this day and age where identity is impacted by the brands we use or consume,
00:00:09
and people may view us through a little bit of a different lens due to the brands that we use,
00:00:15
it's important to focus on how the brands themselves are reacting to this new culture.
00:00:21
America Shreed is a professor of marketing here at the Wharton School. He recently penned an article
00:00:25
for Knowledge at Wharton on the five principles for brands in the age of identity marketing,
00:00:32
and he joins us right now to discuss. America, it's great to talk to you again. How are you, sir?
00:00:36
I'm doing well, sir. It's great to be with you again. Always great to be with you. What was it that drove you to want to focus on this as a topic?
00:00:44
Well, there's two countervailing forces that are at play here that were fascinating to me, Dan.
00:00:48
One has to do with the health and wellness trends that are going on right now, the social fitness
00:00:54
trends, and this desire to measure everything, right? So there is this sort of push into let's
00:01:00
put on a wearable, let's track heart rate variability and heart rate and so on and so
00:01:05
forth. That's one element. There's another element that is sort of the social media world where you
00:01:12
are forming a sense of who you are as a function of comparing yourself to others. And so the
00:01:18
genesis of the article that I wrote really was to sort of unpack these two forces that are coming
00:01:24
together and that are impacting essentially how consumers react to brands. Right. And so how then do the companies obviously have to be aware of all of this
00:01:35
so that they can react properly as well? Yeah, I love that question, Dan. It's a question of the multidimensionality of the consumer self.
00:01:42
So a person has a lot of different aspects. They're managing a lot of things, health,
00:01:48
status, aspirational things that go on with respect to the roles that they have in their
00:01:51
life. So I think it's important for brands to understand that they can't be lazy. They have to
00:01:56
be sociologically intentional to try to understand these consumers' senses of who they are, what are
00:02:02
these dimensions, and try to understand where there is an opportunity to introduce a product, brand,
00:02:08
service, organization that can fit into that synchronicity with some of those roles.
00:02:13
I found it interesting in the article you touch on the generational component and how different generations will react differently to different elements.
00:02:21
And that is incredibly important because I know I react obviously some ways very differently to what
00:02:28
my kids do, to what you do. It's a very unique element that I'm wondering if companies at times
00:02:35
it can be a bit of a trap and they can overlook. I think that's exactly the case. I think that
00:02:40
companies need to be aware, and this is another main premise in the article, Dan, that consumers
00:02:47
are forming their sense of identity all the time. Now they have these tools that have allowed them
00:02:52
to accelerate who they are and monitor every aspect about who they are. So it's really
00:02:58
important for brands to be able to understand that this sociological process is happening
00:03:03
and is accelerated in real time. So their job is to be able to go in and say, I need to provide
00:03:09
a kind of way that consumers can express who they are and I need to understand the differences.
00:03:14
So these younger consumers, I mean, the fish doesn't know what water is. I mean, my daughter
00:03:18
is just grew up swiping left and right. So to your point, exactly correct. Her reaction is totally
00:03:25
different than my reaction. And marketers need to understand that if they're going to send us
00:03:28
messages that are going to be compelling. Okay. So let's go through these components.
00:03:32
And I guess the first one kind of plays off of what we've been talking about is that
00:03:35
you believe that it's important for companies to look at identity through a historical lens
00:03:42
before they react. Yes. I think this is huge because identity can be often caught up in
00:03:50
the cultural moment. And so you can make a mistake if you're not paying attention to
00:03:56
the historical evolution in the context of identity as it's evolving in real time.
00:04:01
So the example that I use is sort of masculinity is a very important component in this that's
00:04:06
coming up now with respect to certain brands and trying to help redefine masculinity in a
00:04:11
more positive way. And they're able to do that. Brands like Manscaped, Dude Wipes,
00:04:17
they're able to do that because they have an authentic understanding and desire to sort of
00:04:21
sociologically unpack what's going on in that particular dimension and to be able to respond
00:04:26
to it in a way that is good and also robust in terms of how consumers are likely to see themselves.
00:04:33
You also bring up the component of aspiration versus shame, which when we think about social
00:04:38
media can play a huge, huge role. Yes, a huge role. And the aspiration versus shame
00:04:45
part is very, very critical, Dan. And I just want to kind of make a connection here.
00:04:50
We were talking about this notion of when Nike sort of stepped in it at the Boston Marathon,
00:04:56
runners welcome, walkers tolerate it. And that's a great example of this, this notion of you're
00:05:03
trying to build and elevate aspiration. You're trying to elevate runners. You don't need to
00:05:07
denigrate walkers. You don't need to denigrate those people who aren't trying to get on a podium,
00:05:11
especially if the aspiration versus shame context is built in the footprint that you've
00:05:18
been telling us for decades that you're all about inclusivity. And if you have a body,
00:05:24
you're an athlete and this kind of stuff. So, you know, this is a great example of when if you
00:05:28
kick, if you take your eye off the ball, you're likely to make a mistake and you're likely to
00:05:32
actually create this, this very shameful kind of thing, which doesn't help your brand in any way
00:05:37
whatsoever. You talk about a dashboard effect, which seems to be the understanding for the
00:05:44
companies that they are just one piece of a larger puzzle for each individual on all of the different
00:05:50
things that they have going on in their lives. 100% correct. And that's, again, this is this,
00:05:55
the notion that you have to take the consumer in his or her or their totality. And so you have
00:06:01
to understand that now consumers have these tools. The dashboard effect is basically saying I can
00:06:06
monitor anything about myself in real time, in the context of how I'm presenting myself
00:06:11
to the world. Social media allows me to have very clear metrics about what's getting liked,
00:06:16
what's getting shared, where the dopamine hits are and all of this kind of stuff.
00:06:19
So companies, brands, services, products, organizations, they have to be aware that this
00:06:24
totality, the consumer is aware of their own totality and presenting themselves. And so,
00:06:30
again, the big unlock here is to say that as a brand, what can I do to understand and maybe even
00:06:36
get myself in that dashboard so that I can help them self express symbolically, and I can help
00:06:43
them try to reach for this aspirational aspect of who they are. The last point you bring up,
00:06:48
and I think I read this correctly, is that it's basically also companies making sure that
00:06:54
as they're going through all these changes and adapting to what the consumers want in different
00:07:00
generations, they still have to keep their core values in check, don't they? A hundred percent.
00:07:04
You know, I, listen, I don't, I don't mean this to be poo-poo on Nike day, but this is exactly,
00:07:11
this is exactly what we're talking about. People were, why did people have the reaction was to,
00:07:14
wait a second, your core value is something different. Your core value is representing a
00:07:19
kind of, hey, let's welcome everybody into this to try to get people moving and get them to,
00:07:24
in a sense, just do it. And so if you set forth that footprint and then you violate, you do this
00:07:29
whiplash positioning where you're suddenly doing something else that communicates something very
00:07:34
different, you run into these kinds of problems. So again, the notion is really just try to live
00:07:39
in coherence, try to understand historically what these consumers are doing and becoming
00:07:44
evolving over time and try to be a part of that positive narrative aspirationally.
00:07:49
What do you think then is the takeaway for you from doing this article for companies? And
00:07:54
I'll ask you, is this also kind of an ever evolving element here because of how generations
00:08:02
will react differently from generation to generation? Yeah, I love that question, Dan.
00:08:07
That again, my advice to companies is say, listen, you got to become social detectives. I mean,
00:08:14
this is going to be like, you got to diagnose, you have to live with consumers and understand
00:08:18
how their lives are changing as a function of internal and external factors. And you also have
00:08:24
to have the flexibility. You made this point already. You have to have the flexibility to
00:08:27
be able to adapt. Why? Because these things are changing. They may be changing slowly,
00:08:31
but they are changing over time. And you don't want to suddenly find yourself in a blind spot
00:08:36
because you haven't been paying attention to consumers' identities and where they're going as
00:08:40
a function of all of these different types of tools and different types of technologies that will
00:08:45
ultimately help them figure out how to define who they are. America is always fun to talk.
00:08:50
Thanks very much, sir. I appreciate you, sir. Talk to you next time. America Shreed,
00:08:54
professor of marketing here at the Wharton School, who I forgot to mention at the open of this,
00:08:59
co-host of the Marketing Matters podcast, which you can see if you're watching the video right
00:09:03
behind him on the big screen, every week on the Wharton Podcast Network with Barbara Kahn.
00:09:08
Thank you, sir. All the best. Thank you. I appreciate you.