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welcome to our listeners and viewers and
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the United States and around the world
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welcome to our knowledge at Wharton and
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Wharton Leadership Conference events as
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you know by signing up to this that we
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have a series of presentations from
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leaders from around the world and around
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various parts of society and business
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talking about issues associated with
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leadership and today it's great pleasure
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to have with us the right honorable Lord
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Baker of Barker battle I Greg bunker
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it's pleasure to have him with us he was
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elected a member of parliament in 2001
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after that during the Cameron government
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was minister of state or energy and
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climate change and is currently
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executive chair of the N Plus groups and
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energy company based in Russia and
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around the world's great pleasure to
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have you with us Greg welcome thank you
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Peter I'm really flattered and honored
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to be here maybe the first thing to do
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we want to get into the climate change
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topic in just a minute though is you
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will be I'm pretty sure the only Lord on
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our seminar program could you just tell
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listeners who are not familiar with this
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UK institution a little bit about how
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one becomes a lord well his Larry yeah
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well it's a it's a honorific title like
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sir so it carries a title but his talk
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but historically not only did carry a
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title but it also entitle you to sit in
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Parliament and there was a House of
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Commons which was elected and then a
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House of Lords where everyone who had
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inherited a title was able to sit and
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together they passed laws together with
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the moment over the centuries the power
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of the House of Lords steadily declined
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and then in the 1960s in the 20th
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century they introduced something called
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the life peer which was a very British
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way of changing a historic institution
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to reflect the modern times while
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keeping a semblance of history about its
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so nowadays following a series of
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reforms the most
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which was under Tony Blair the majority
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of of Lords in the House of Lords and I
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use that phrase and to mean both women
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and men and the majority are actually
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appointed by the gut by the government
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of the day so there are about seven
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hundred members of the House of Lords
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and about six hundred of those have been
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appointed over the years because the
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appointment is for life so you enjoy the
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dignity and style of a lord in the
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historic sense but you don't pass it on
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to your your eldest son or your heir as
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he would have done historically there
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are still about a hundred hereditary
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peers in the in the House of Lords so
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the Duke of Wellington for example still
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sits in the House of Lords and a number
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of other people with famous historic
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titles that you would recognize but
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there isn't the role of the Lords is a
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revising chamber the power clearly rests
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with the House of Commons and the it is
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supposed to and I think largely does
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reflect a very broad degree of people
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from different walks of life different
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experience different experts although
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there are a lot of former professional
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politicians like myself who have gone on
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to do other things but this is still a
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way that they can contribute yeah well
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one of the ways you've been contributing
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in a very important topic is the topic
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of climate change in your roles and
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before that but afterwards as well and
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recent op-ed piece a week or so ago I
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think in the Financial Times and making
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the case that we should take climate
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change more seriously and address it I
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wonder if you say a word just about your
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experience in pushing those arguments
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forward which started a while ago maybe
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just a little bit about why that was
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important to you and and what were the
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difficulties in trying to advocate for
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climate change
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well I went into politics in 2001 and
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had a background in business when I went
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in and was given a piece of advice on
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entering politics and not really knowing
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many of the people in the in the
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Westminster corridors to find a subject
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do SWAT up on it and to make yourself
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useful particularly given that I was
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elected in 2001 as a Conservative member
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of parliament at a time when we were in
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deep opposition and Tony Blair looked
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like he was set to rule for the rest of
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the century so there was no no hurry to
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get ready for government though I took
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that opportunity to join the
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parliamentary environmental Audit
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Committee just at the time that climate
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change was coming up the political
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agenda globally it was the time that Al
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Gore for example was writing an
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inconvenient and published and
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Inconvenient Truth and I remember that
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having a real impact on me and it
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prompted us as a committee to launch our
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own investigations into the issue of
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climate change and to me it became a
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really fascinating all-consuming subject
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because it included the economy it
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included the way we live it includes
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softer things like education and it is
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an international issue it's not
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something that is just affecting
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domestic politics but also it was an
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issue which demanded innovation it
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demanded a full response across a suite
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of policy measures and that not everyone
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was taking it seriously though I the
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more I read the more convinced I became
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that this represented probably the
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greatest long-term threat not just our
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country but the planet faced so it it
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became inescapable that I would want to
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be involved in that as I understand it
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your efforts to push this to the front
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of the agenda we're not always the
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easiest things to do can you tell us a
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little bit about what was difficult
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about trying to in continues to be
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difficult about trying to get attention
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for this topic and and how do you make
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progress on there sure and well when I
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first started talking about this in the
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early 2000s a lot of people in the
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British Conservative Party thought I was
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a complete crank mildly eccentric or
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even that I was some sort of socialist
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in green clothing and that really
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prompted me not just to explain the
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problem of climate change but also to
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make an authentic conservative
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pro-business case for why we should be
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taking action not only just to appease
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my conservative colleagues because I
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genuine believed that we needed to
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marshal the dynamism of the free market
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economy and send it in a direction that
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would that would find climate solutions
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and that I've always been fundamentally
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optimistic that solutions could be found
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I've never been one of these hairshirt
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doom and gloom climate mongers but
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certainly it was a battle early on
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people wouldn't just debate whether or
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not we had the right solutions but would
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debate the actual science in half my
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career was spent arguing with very
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respectable climate deniers and that was
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a real challenge thankfully that has now
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passed I think 2015 was a real seminal
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moment I think that was a laugh time
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when I was on the BBC effectively
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debating with somebody who really didn't
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think this was an issue that should be
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taken seriously now the whole world
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seems to have moved on and the question
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is not if climate change is happening
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not if mankind is responsible but what
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should be the nature scale and pace of
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response and that's a much better place
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to be in and also we've had a huge
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degree of success which often goes
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uncelebrated and one of the biggest
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achievements of my political career I
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mean wasn't all down to me I played a
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small part but something that I was very
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proud proud to be involved in was the
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passing of the cross-party Climate
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Change Act in the UK in 2008 the first
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climate
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change act anywhere in the world and it
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unilaterally committed the United
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Kingdom to reducing carbon emissions by
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then by 80% by 2050 from 1990 levels and
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you know people said you can't do this
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this is impossible you'll ruin the
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economy and what's happened at has over
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successive years we were able to grow
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the economy in the UK quite impressively
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in the early part of this decade and at
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the same time reduce emissions in fact
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the UK has now ready to missions by 86
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percent emissions are now haven't were
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last time that low in the late 19th
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century there were over halfway of
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meeting that original goal of 80%
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reduction and Theresa May Prime Minister
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Theresa May before she left office
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actually moved the goalposts up to a
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hundred percent so we've still got a
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long way to go but we have made real
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progress in large part due to the
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phasing out of coal and the creation of
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an entirely new industry in the UK of
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renewable energy you've argued in the
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Financial Times last week that the
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middle of this corona virus pandemic
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around the world and the shutting down
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to the economies but also the efforts to
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pour more money in through the public
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sector that this is an appropriate
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moment to really take a big step forward
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with respect to climate change tell us a
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little why what's in what's that
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argument like to say this is the time to
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really make an effort well in the face
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of this unprecedented pandemic certainly
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unprecedented in my lifetime every
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business leader first and foremost is
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focused on the short term health and
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welfare of their employees I a executive
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chairman of the N+ group and worldwide
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we employ over a hundred thousand people
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not just in Russia but in Europe in
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Africa in Central America so we have a
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global footprint
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and we feel a great sense of
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responsibility to our employees and
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we're seeing cave 19 hit at different
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times right the way across the different
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regions and jurisdictions that we
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operate in though that's our number one
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focus but if I could quote Fleetwood Mac
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for a moment you can't stop thinking
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about tomorrow and you know if you're a
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business leader you've got to be capable
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of doing more than one thing at a time
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and so in as well as responding to the
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immediate health and safety needs of
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employees we've got to think about the
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longer-term impacts and you know as
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Winston Churchill said never let a good
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crisis go to waste and that is really
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now what we have to do you know there is
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a serious opportunity with huge amounts
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of government money being poured into
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global economy but policymakers to
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insist that that investment is child in
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certain ways that we once and for all
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kick the highly polluting
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environmentally damaging carbon intents
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industries and business practices of the
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last century or more and we use this as
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a real opportunity to have a step change
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towards a low-carbon more sustainable
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future and there are different ways in
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which different industries different
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countries can approach that but we do
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have to see this as a once-in-a-lifetime
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opportunity to make that change I think
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you make a great point about the
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importance of trying to get people to
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think future rather than focus on just
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the current problems how do you do that
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when you have the arguments with other
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businesspeople or political leaders
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about taking climate change seriously
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you really are trying to argue that they
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should think longer-term
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what do you think has been persuasive in
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trying to get people to think longer
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term about this and not just be so
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focused in the world of business let's
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say on their quarterly performance or
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their immediate political concerns how
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do you get them to think long term
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well I think in order to have license to
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talk about the future and to posit your
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ideas for that route map to the future
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you have to at least be competent in
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dealing with the present though it
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cannot be instead this is non either-or
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agenda so you have to show that you are
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able to deal with the very real
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challenges in the here and now and and
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that's never been more critical than
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when when facing this this pandemic but
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as I said it's it's not an either/or
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agenda so if you can do that I think
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that does also by you go to talk about
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the future and if you're going to do
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that I think you have to be very clear
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and this goes to sort of certain
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leadership lessons you have to be able
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to clearly articulate and communicate
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what it is you want to see not just
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speak in Wooley management speak or or
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popular you know hashtags you have to
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have a clear idea and a route map of
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actionable points and one of the things
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that frustrate frustrates me and
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increasingly in in recent times has been
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the willingness of companies big
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business to set long-term goals which
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are absolutely needed and after all I
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was involved in setting a climate change
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act which that set targets all the way
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up to 2050 but effectively its CEOs
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setting setting goals for their
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successors or their successors successor
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to meet while actually doing very little
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in the near-term that they are going to
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be held personally accountable for
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though it's really important that you
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have a credible route map and a credible
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plan as well as just talk about the
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future in an abstract way before we
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began the broadcast today we were
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talking my colleague Mike you seen was
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asking me a little about David Cameron
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your colleague and leader in
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Parliament's and his leadership style
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could you tell us a little bit about his
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effectiveness he seemed to be quite
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effective in leading in this kind of
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context a little about what you saw with
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him
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David had a or has a natural Authority
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and we came into the House of Commons to
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get together very small cohort in 2001
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and it was immediately apparent to me
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that he stood head and shoulders above
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the other members of parliament and so
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when there was an opportunity for a new
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leader to be put in place in 2005
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without hesitation I encouraged him
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along with others to step up even though
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he was relatively young and relatively
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new on the scene it was very clear that
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he had the x-factor for leadership again
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who was he's you know incredibly
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articulate to see him at the
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despatch-box he was able to put into
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words and craft the sentences under
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pressure
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infernal in a way that very few people
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are able to do but he was also a very
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serious administrator I mean I had a you
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know a first-class degree from Oxford
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and had a fine brain but I've
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seen plenty of more intelligent people
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or more academically qualified people
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not be able to convert that intelligence
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into in a political effectiveness and
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David was able to marry the both I
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remember seeing him in Cobra Cobra Azhar
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the UK version of The Situation Room
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and I was on a hostage international
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hostage crisis and in the room it's not
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it's not the same as the cabinet within
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this Situation Room you would have the
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heads of the Army Navy the special
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services top diplomats intelligence
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services and key ministers from a
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relevant departments depending on what
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the nature of the crisis was and David
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would enter exactly on time 11 o'clock
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tip down and immediately called the
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meeting to order and crisply worked
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through the agenda a lot of politicians
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I've come across cross always have to
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try and prove that they're the most
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intelligent or important person in the
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room despite the fact that they hold the
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highest office David had an you know
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were always very thoughtful and listened
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to the lead
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I see you had absolutely no doubt as to
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who was in charge and a clear direction
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and a clear course that he was setting
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so and he was a very agreeable person to
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work with that David Cameron uses or in
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public was very very similar to the
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David Cameron in private and which you
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know a lot of politicians are not like
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that there are lot of politicians that
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have a terrible public image and in
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private their delightful conversely
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there are some very popular politicians
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who are in nightmare in private but
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David was very consistent and I will
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remain a huge admirer of his I'd like to
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share the podium here with my colleague
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Mike Hughes theme who is director of our
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Center for Leadership and co-host of the
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series and our Leadership Conference
00:18:22
Mike has been looking at questions from
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the audience but also I think has his
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own questions too so Mike can we go over
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you from it thank you Peter and thank
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you learned Barker for being on our
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program very interesting discussion
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we're getting a good number of questions
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in I'm going to begin with one of my own
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but then bring in some of the questions
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that our listeners are indeed forwarding
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in the FT op-ed piece that you wrote you
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use a phrase build back better build
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back better I find the phrase really
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appealing and then thinking about its
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application now in the coronavirus
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moment how do you see the UK the US
00:19:01
other countries building back better and
00:19:05
who's going to drive that so there it is
00:19:08
what do you think well ultimately I
00:19:11
think we're going to build back better
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because the people of the UK of the US
00:19:16
and around the world are going to demand
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that we do we live in a new democratic
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age now where everyone thanks to social
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media has a voice and I think there is
00:19:25
an increasing clamor that we don't just
00:19:27
go back to business as normal now in my
00:19:30
own line what does build back better
00:19:31
mean I lead the world's largest producer
00:19:37
of low carbon aluminium to put that in
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some sort of context the average Tarn of
00:19:43
aluminium can
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make up to 16 or 18 tonnes of carbon to
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produce because it's so energy intensive
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but because my group uses hydropower are
00:19:52
also the world's largest private sector
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hydropower company because we use that
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to make aluminium instead of being 18
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tons of carbon for a ton of aluminium it
00:20:02
just takes two point six tons so it's
00:20:06
really important when can rupture
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project if you're using these in tax
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dollars to invest in renewable energy in
00:20:18
electric vehicle charging points
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electric vehicle manufacturing
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sustainable housing that you don't just
00:20:27
use the materials like aluminium that
00:20:30
lend themselves to that application but
00:20:32
you use low-carbon aluminium that you
00:20:35
think about the consequences not just of
00:20:38
the thing you're building but the whole
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supply chain in order to make it a more
00:20:42
circular economy and create more
00:20:45
sustainable outcomes and I think having
00:20:48
sustainability and climate action at the
00:20:51
forefront of our mind as we embark on
00:20:54
these bill bringing back the economy is
00:20:57
a once-in-a-generation chance we knew no
00:21:00
one would have wished for this pandemic
00:21:02
but it's a fact now we have to rebuild
00:21:06
the economy so let's not waste this
00:21:07
opportunity to build back better I
00:21:10
didn't invent that phrase it was
00:21:13
originally conceived to talk about
00:21:15
resilience when building after a natural
00:21:18
disaster but I think it lends itself to
00:21:21
I think not just a national mood but a
00:21:23
global mood post pandemic how we really
00:21:26
need to build something better and you
00:21:29
know and can assure people who've you
00:21:32
know made huge sacrifices during this
00:21:34
pandemic that it hasn't you know just
00:21:35
been for a short term an effort that
00:21:38
actually something better is going to
00:21:39
come out of this huge collective effort
00:21:42
great thank you on that I'm gonna draw
00:21:44
in a question now from one of our
00:21:46
viewers that is directly related to what
00:21:48
you described they're building back
00:21:51
better and that is how do we know when a
00:21:54
in this case by the question we have in
00:21:56
front of us
00:21:57
a particular company is doing that or
00:22:00
not what are what are one or two metrics
00:22:02
that you would look at both if if you're
00:22:05
a business executive at that company but
00:22:07
also if you're in Parliament looking at
00:22:09
that company to know if they are indeed
00:22:11
coming back sustainably or not really
00:22:15
good question and the answer is it's
00:22:17
quite hard actually because you know
00:22:20
business is not as transparent as they
00:22:23
should be in my own sector I've been
00:22:26
arguing since last year when I took up
00:22:29
this role that we should all be all the
00:22:32
major manufacturers of aluminium should
00:22:34
be declaring the carbon content of the
00:22:37
metals that they produce because there's
00:22:40
such a huge discrepancy Chinese
00:22:42
aluminium 18 tonnes of carbon our
00:22:45
aluminium made with high drone of we're
00:22:48
not the only producer but you know is
00:22:51
2.6 tonnes of carbon so huge discrepancy
00:22:53
but there's you have to really dig to
00:22:55
find that and it's the same in many
00:22:58
other industries as well that
00:23:00
information is not readily available I
00:23:03
would like to see much better green
00:23:05
labeling though it was on products on
00:23:09
consumer products and carbon
00:23:11
transparency for commodities so that
00:23:14
when vehicle manufacturers when people
00:23:19
building public buildings or a large
00:23:23
infrastructure projects that it's very
00:23:25
clear what the carbon content and also
00:23:27
the wider sustainability beaches of
00:23:30
those projects are and you know people
00:23:33
have been talking sustainability for
00:23:37
some time now I think this is the time
00:23:39
when we've got to convert that talk into
00:23:42
tangible actions and we've got to be
00:23:44
accountable for them and the only way
00:23:46
that businesses can be accountable for
00:23:48
their actions is to have greater
00:23:50
transparency and greater disclosure on
00:23:53
the sustainability and carbon content of
00:23:55
either their products that they make or
00:23:58
the services that they offer
00:23:59
I learned mark well one more question
00:24:03
from again one of our viewers here
00:24:05
directly related as well and that is
00:24:09
bringing in the topic in
00:24:11
and inequality which is worsening both
00:24:14
in the UK and the u.s. in the last
00:24:17
several years and building back better
00:24:19
what are your thoughts on how to ensure
00:24:22
that in coming back from the current
00:24:24
crisis we don't it further exacerbate
00:24:26
the inequalities which now are appearing
00:24:30
both in heightened poverty rates for
00:24:33
example but also in the politics of the
00:24:35
moment so what is your thinking I'll
00:24:37
just sum that up about building back
00:24:39
better while not worsening and hopefully
00:24:43
improving the extent to which we have
00:24:46
equity and equality in both of our
00:24:48
countries well I think this is a time
00:24:52
for strong leadership and it's time for
00:24:54
politicians to think outside the box and
00:24:57
maybe even outside strict party lines
00:24:59
and in previous pandemics in his plane
00:25:04
the survivors have actually been left
00:25:06
better off for example if you go back to
00:25:08
the Middle Ages and the Black Death
00:25:09
after that pandemic though many people
00:25:12
were killed that there was actually a
00:25:13
shortage of labor and the living
00:25:15
standards of the peasants of the of the
00:25:19
of the of the labouring classes actually
00:25:21
rose in there in the couple of centuries
00:25:24
afterwards as a result of the need to
00:25:27
compete for labor but now what we're
00:25:29
seeing is that an actual fact far more
00:25:32
jobs have been destroyed in our economy
00:25:35
than and thankfully them people have
00:25:39
been and that there are going to be huge
00:25:40
numbers of people around the world who
00:25:43
will have their livelihoods threatened
00:25:46
or their jobs taken away and that does
00:25:48
require new thinking and recognizing
00:25:50
that this is an entirely new set of
00:25:52
circumstances and it requires a really
00:25:55
strong policy lead from politicians it
00:25:57
requires collaboration and partnership
00:26:00
and collaboration and partnership with
00:26:03
business as well and clear sets of goals
00:26:05
I think politicians have to be very
00:26:09
clear to the public what it is that they
00:26:12
are trying to pinch marks of success and
00:26:15
also be honest about what can't be
00:26:19
achieved because you know we're not
00:26:21
going to be able to just bounce back
00:26:22
better
00:26:24
immediately and there will be casualties
00:26:27
of this terrible pandemic economic
00:26:29
casualties and we have to make sure that
00:26:31
we dupe them up as well as well as you
00:26:34
know identify the Sun rise industries
00:26:36
and the areas that will benefit from you
00:26:39
know an agreement recovery Lord Barker
00:26:43
thank you on that we were about two
00:26:45
minutes away from a station break so to
00:26:47
speak so I'm going to very briefly thumb
00:26:50
up a couple of points I've been taking
00:26:51
notes and then mention our next
00:26:54
president presenter on this particular
00:26:56
series though from Lord Barker who's
00:26:59
long been active in business and
00:27:01
politics my point number one is don't
00:27:05
let the fact that you're in business
00:27:06
prevent you from getting into politics
00:27:08
or the other way around if you have an
00:27:11
opportunity to lead don't be shy about
00:27:13
taking that leadership to another
00:27:15
institution whether business to politics
00:27:17
or from a community group to another
00:27:20
kind of institution number two build
00:27:23
back better and this goes back to the
00:27:25
reference to the the famous quote from
00:27:28
Winston Churchill don't let a crisis go
00:27:30
to waste and holding back better it is a
00:27:33
moment to take the crisis we're all
00:27:35
ready for change and indeed let's bring
00:27:38
everything back better than it was
00:27:40
before and then number four if we're
00:27:45
going to build back better under the
00:27:47
circumstance we do have to have a plan a
00:27:50
strategy the Devils in the detail and so
00:27:53
in general of course we want to come
00:27:56
back better but I think the leadership
00:27:58
of the future is going to entail of
00:28:01
necessity building back better in
00:28:03
specific ways whether its climate change
00:28:05
or whatever it may be
00:28:06
so Peter Capelli thank you for getting
00:28:10
this particular event underway here and
00:28:13
guiding our discussion but Lord barker
00:28:15
lured Barker thank you for being with
00:28:16
this and I just want to let everybody
00:28:19
know that is still tuned in here this is
00:28:22
a series of presentations by people who
00:28:25
had been signed up for our annual
00:28:27
Leadership Conference our next guest on
00:28:30
June 4th will be lore lorry rider Kirk
00:28:34
he was the chief executive officer of
00:28:36
selling these corporate
00:28:37
that's a fortune 500 firm it's in
00:28:40
materials and chemicals got six or seven
00:28:44
billion dollars of revenue to worry
00:28:45
about about 8,000 employees and we're
00:28:47
going to hear from her directly
00:28:49
about how she has guided her company
00:28:51
through the events of the present so
00:28:54
thank you everybody for joining the
00:28:56
program and best wishes to you be safe
00:28:58
and be healthy thank you very much
00:29:08
you
