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Hello and welcome. You're listening to Marketing Matters on the Wharton podcast
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network, our weekly podcast where we analyze the latest in advertising, marketing, customer behavior, new
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product launches, retailing, branding, everything marketing. I'm Barbara Khan,
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the Patty and JH Baker Professor of Marketing, and I'm joined by my co-host,
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America Reed, the Whitney M. Young Jr. Professor of Marketing and the brand identity theorist. And today we are so
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happy to have as our guest Stacy Andred Wells who's the chief marketing officer
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of Liquid IV. In case you've never heard of Liquid IV, Liquid IV is a wellness
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brand that's focused on hydration, functional beverages, and also does culturally relevant purpose-driven
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marketing. And Stacy leads the brand strategy, consumer marketing, and innovation for Liquid IV, which is one
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of the fastest growing wellness brands in the country. By the way, the probably the most important part of Stacy's
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background is that she's a Wharton. Um, we're so happy to have her. Hello,
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Stacy. Hello, Americus. >> Hi, Stacy. Hey, Barbara. >> Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm excited to be here today. >> Excellent. That's awesome. And by the
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way, before we just jump into this, I have a video of No, sorry. Burma is like, why are you pivoting? I'm sorry. I
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just have to say this. I have a video of Stacy in my undergraduate class presenting to Microsoft colleagues on a
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group project that they did during that term, many, many years ago. So, I'm excited to talk to Stacy. This is
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awesome. But go ahead, Barbara. Yes, let's let's get let's get into it.
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That's kind of where I wanted to start before we get into Liquid IV and your
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exciting Super Bowl commercial and all this other stuff. Stacy, you were at Wharton. Um, and then where'd you go
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after Wharton? Did you go to PNG after Wharton? >> I did. I started my career at Proctor
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and Gamble. Um, I did a a summer internship there while I was still in undergrad. And actually, I remember
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going to you Americus about this opportunity and saying like, "Hey, what do you think about this? Like, what
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should I do? Yes. >> And um you know, >> and what was my sage advice? [laughter]
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>> I think he said something along the lines of like, hey, there's no better
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school in brand management than Proctor and Gamble and this is a great opportunity for you to start your career
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here. Like 100% go for it. Um I had never been to Cincinnati before. I grew up on the East Coast and so that was,
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you know, he said just do it. Like >> do what you need to do and it was absolutely the right advice. It could
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not have been a better move for me to start my career there. Um, it was wonderful training ground in brand
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management. Um, especially on top of your phenomenal class, of course. [laughter]
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>> Well, thank you, Stacy. >> But yes, now I've moved over to the
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Unilver family. So, I've been here for the last four years and that also has
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been an incredible journey um to be part of that broader company, but also kind of be in the world of liquid IV uh
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within the well-being collective umbrella. So yeah, together they've been an amazing experience.
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>> So let's go back to PNG just for a second though. So um your your background really is in brand then like
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at PNG you I have here that you worked at the game brand. Did you like work most of your career that you were at PNG
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on one brand? >> No. So I actually started my career there in Surface Care and I worked on uh
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Mr. Clean was the first brand I ever worked on. Then I moved over to Swiffer for a while. I worked across innovation
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and commercial uh growth and brand building on those two brands. Um I moved over to fabricare and I worked there for
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a while. Um it actually started there in a bit of a more of like a marketing sales role where I was working the club
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channel all the innovation for the club channel and promotional strategy for all
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of fabricare. And then the last three years of my time at Proctor and Gamble was on the gain business. So I laid led
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the Gain laundry and fabric enhancer business for them. Um and then that was when I made the move out to Liquid IV
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and out to California. So big change both professionally and personally after quite a long stretch with BNG.
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>> Yeah. So that's kind of interesting. And you said Liquid IV is owned by Unilver.
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Is that what you said? >> Yep. Acquired in 2020. I mean, I don't want you to, you know, say anything un
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not kosher, but like here you are working at two of the biggest brand companies, PNG versus Unilver. Um, and
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in both cases working on specific brands. Do you have like some big picture like takeaways from those two
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experiences? >> Yeah, I mean, I would say I think there's a reason why both are
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powerhouses in the world of CPG. I think they both have their absolute strengths.
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Um, what I took away most from my time at PNG was a bit more on like the brand management side, which was the roles
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that I occupied there. Kind of learning a bit about fluency with the P&L, how to
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drive commercial growth. A lot of those businesses have been around for decades.
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They're legacy brands and you're learning how to grow a business in mature categories. So, that takes a lot
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of creativity when it comes to the commercial drivers that you can manipulate to grow the business. And
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that was a foundational experience on that front. I would say when I came over to Unilver as part of Liquid IV, Unilver
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was in a very different uh sorry liquid IV was in a very different life stage brands I had previously worked on. It
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was very high growth, much smaller at the time in terms of total revenue. Um and the marketing model was quite
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different. So it had taken a page out of the beauty playbook was very heavily invested in influencer marketing event
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activations and so that also >> interesting open up my mind to the world of like
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true integrated marketing. What does it look to lead a business that is very large in DTOC and e-commerce as a
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percentage of the total business which is not true for the majority of PNG brands. They're very retailheavy. So
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very different skill set >> digital first. Yeah. So it in many ways they're very complimementaryary. Um I
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think both bring amazing capabilities and competencies to the table and it's
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been a real privilege to be able to kind of you know absorb insights and knowledge from both of those incredible
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organizations. >> So like I love that idea. So PNG is definitely retail. You talk about
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grocery, you think about the detergent aisle or the cleaning aisle or things like that. Whereas, I'll just tell you
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idiosyncratically, my experience with Liquid IV is I get it the the first time I ever heard of it is I got it in a
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little package that they gave away at weddings um for hangover stuff. Um, which sounds much more influencer Tik
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Tocky than like your traditional. So, I mean that's just anecdotally, but my
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experience with the two different types of brands that you're talking about are
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radically different marketing strategies. So, Barbara, are you saying sorry to interrupt say Barbara, are you
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saying you were hung over at a wedding? >> No, not I. I just Hey, we're allegedly
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[laughter] that was that was >> understood. Understood. >> With aspirin. You got aspirin and liquid
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IV. >> That's interesting. Interesting. So, right right to your point, Barbara, that
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the trial piece, it's something there like experiential right there, which is
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a completely different model to your point, Barbara, than to kind of the retail model.
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>> Yeah. And I I'm thinking that that's the way I experienced it, but I'm guessing
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that that's it's not an accident. It's part of what you're saying.
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>> Absolutely. Very intentional. We actually call that our sticks in hand program. [laughter]
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And uh we just want to get as many sticks in hand as possible because the product it really does work. So if you
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try it, you will buy it. And um on an annual basis now the on the brand team alone, we can distribute upwards of 6
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million sticks just in a given year. If you take into account all the sampling that we do from a retail standpoint and
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even the product giveaways that we do um you know with at like firefighter houses
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and things like that, we are distributing over 20 million sticks in a given year.
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>> So it is our goal to get this product in the hands of people because we know that
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that that really does work. Um in a category that's so has such low household penetration driving trial is
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critically important. um trial in detergents when 99% of households are using some detergent or another.
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>> Yeah, very different. >> It's a switching game. >> Yeah,
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>> that's super interesting. Stacy, I I want to because this is really
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interesting to me to Barbara's point about your background coming from the world of brand management and stewarding
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a brand. Can you pause briefly and tell our listeners who may not know, tell us about the the Liquid IV brand? What two
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things? Number one, what does it stand for? How do you how do you conceptualize its ethos? What makes it different? I'm
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sure there are other things that are out there claiming to hydrate and we can we
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we know what those competitors are and we won't say their names. [laughter] Uh
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but uh or maybe Barbara will later, but no, no, but seriously, you know, so just
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talk us through like I mean because to Barbara's point, it's like it's powder
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in a packet sticks. We got to get 20 million sticks out there. How do you make what you're doing different? How do
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you build a what is the brand and how do you how do you put it out there? >> Absolutely. So I mean if you think back
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to the hydration category about a decade ago, it was really focused from a positioning standpoint on high octane
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sports and highly competitive environments. Hydration was what you saw professional athletes focusing on. It
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was really for competitive sports. And the offerings that were out there in the marketplace were basically, you know,
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beverages that had artificial coloring, artificial sweeteners, very high amounts
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of sugar, all in plastic bottles kind of lining the shelves. And that was the nature of the hydration category. I
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think what Liquid IV was able to do was really introduce hydration in a way that
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felt relevant to a much broader cohort of people and really expand the role of hydration as something that is
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foundational for everyday wellness. It is the bedrock of your wellness routine. And we highlighted for people that
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you're dehydrated because you've been on Zoom meetings since 9:00 a.m. and it's
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now 2 p.m. and you haven't had a glass of water. you're dehydrated because
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you're walking outside in in the heat in the peak of summer and and that's a
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dehydration moment. You know, you don't have to be competing in these highly
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competitive sports in order to experience dehydration. It's something that is universally relevant.
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>> So, that was the positioning shift that really happened within the category.
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>> When was that? What year was that you were talking about? >> So, Liquid IV was founded in 2012. So,
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we've been growing this business for over the last decade and really carving
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out this position of leadership within hydration. I think that proposition then has to be met with a product that really
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delivers. So, you know, I always say this, but to me, you know, incredible marketing without an incredible product
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is a one-way ticket to a fad. You know, you need to have the product that is really going to deliver an incredible
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consumer experience and is going to justify the repeat that the brand needs in order to sustain over time. Liquid IV
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was able to offer three times the electrolytes of a traditional sports drink with a third of the sugar. And
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then over the last couple of years, we launched our sugar-free version, which makes it actually the only sugar-free
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functional beverage in the marketplace that has clinical studies that demonstrate it hydrates faster than
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water alone. There's a lot of sugar-free beverages out there that are making
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similar claims, but where are the clinical studies that back it up? They don't exist. So this liquid IV has
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really anchored its point of differentiation on scientific superiority and our ability to really
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show our homework when it comes to the claims that we are making in the marketplace.
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>> So that's a pretty good answer to your question Americas. I think I think she's
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laying out you know a couple things that I just want to summarize because I think
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it's interesting. when you're telling us that you kind of developed a category
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like in the beginning it's like you you built a new category then you differentiate your brand by the
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scientific claims is part of what you're saying there but the other thing that I
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wanted to point out is that it was really good timing too because as all of this stuff was happening we've seen in
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the la that's why I asked you on timing I think in the last like five years or
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so a really big growing area is this wellness area this health area so you had a Great. You introduced a really
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interesting category. You know, you introduced an interesting brand, but the timing was good too is what I'm guessing
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because a lot of people are focusing on health and wellness and that's where the
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growth is. So, some of it some of the good fortune of Liquid IV was being in the right place at the right time. I
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mean, do you agree with that? Yeah, I do think um a lot of it is kind of the the
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macro dynamics that are happening and the the trends that you're seeing. So certainly the brand benefited from the
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growing focus on wellness. Um, I do think the growth of Liquid IV was also able to kind of fuel the broader
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conversation on hydration and showing up in a way where we don't just talk about
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the product, but we talk about the broader focus on dehydration grows the total category. Um, so that really has
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been our focus is how do we keep hydration as a need very top of mind when there's all these other different
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wellness trends or focus areas that are popping up for consumers, right? Um, and
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I think like part of how you kind of futureproof yourself and make yourself relevant is understanding where is this
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category going, what is important to consumers when it comes to their wellness routines and habits and how do
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we make sure that we're designing products that continue to meet those evolving needs, which is your point
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about fad versus trend versus like so you don't want to just be a fad. It's
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fine that the timing is good, but it's got to be something that endures. >> Exactly. So, I mean, one of the other
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things I know the part of the newsiness of the of having you on our show is that
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you're going to introduce your first Super Bowl ad. Now, what's interesting
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about that though is you were talking about more of a like word of mouth, sticks in hands. That's a very different
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strategy. Super Bowl goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning, you know, building brand the PNG way,
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you know. I mean, although they did it on soap opers, not Super Bowl necessarily, but but still network TV
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building brand, which is very different than what you were saying, you know, in the more sticks in hand, get the get the
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word out there, word of mouth and things like that. So, why the pivot to a Super
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Bowl ad? >> I think the key is really in how you show up at the Super Bowl.
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>> Um, you know, if we were going to show up with a 30-cond spot and call it a
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day, like, yeah, that that's a bit tired. It's a bit uh been there, done
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that. We like to say here that we zig where others zagged. So, we're trying to
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find unique ways that we can show up. And because we are located in Los Angeles, this is where we were born and
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raised. We looked in our backyard. We said, "How would Hollywood launch a blockbuster film?" And we're going to
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take a page out of that playbook and we're going to approach it that way. And
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so actually um even the days leading up to Super Bowl are huge building moments for us because we've partnered with EJ
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who is a Golden Globe winning Oscar nominated artist, singer, songwriter. Um she is in the absolute apex of the
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cultural zeitgeist right now. She has re-recorded um Phil Collins Against All Odds uh Take a Look at Me Now. Um it's
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an iconic song. her version helps us transcend generations and kind of reach a very broad audience but do it in a way
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that's very linked with culture and is very of the moment. So um that actually
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released I think it was last week uh to incredibly positive reception and engagement on our digital channels. So,
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kind of Barbara bringing back to your question of like, yeah, that's, you know, that's linear television. We're
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actually starting our journey in the worlds of Meta, Instagram, Tik Tok, like how do we drive engagement for what the
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brand is doing. Um, we're going to continue to drop teasers and trailers leading up to the big day. And whereas
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most brands will release their Super Bowl spot in the weeks leading up to Super Bowl, we will not be doing that.
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Uh, nobody will see it until Super Bowl Sunday. And that's very intentional because that's the joy of Super Bowl is
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seeing the ads for the first time and talking about them at the viewing party with your friends. Um, and you know, we
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talked a lot about the experiential marketing piece. We absolutely plan to have our field marketing fleets on the
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ground in San Francisco in the two cities that will be competing in the Super Bowl. So, experiential marketing
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is a very, very big part of our total campaign. you'll see influencer content,
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social content. There will be sticks being distributed. Um, so it really is a a comprehensive 360 approach to how we
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show up at Super Bowl. And there will also be a lot of activity happening the Monday after and even through the end of
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March to kind of continue that narrative through the entire quarter. >> Wow, that's cool. Uh, this is amazing.
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First of all, kudos for figuring out how to do something with Phil Collins. I was
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in the gym this morning [laughter] and I was listening to Bill Collins while I worked out, Barbara. So, this is
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fantastic. >> I mean, the the the man's voice is iconic. And to do a remix of a of a, you
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know, sort of culturally relevant current modern artist doing sort of a classic, nostalgic, iconic artist is
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just genius. So, kudos for that. Um, but I wanted to I wanted to step back because Barbara said something that was
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really interesting that I want to unpack just a little bit and it builds on your
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discussion uh Stacy where you said you know we're kind of defining the market
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as humans because everyone needs to be hydrated and this sort of more mass approach. So, as the liquid IV community
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has evolved since 2012 and it's sort of like a every it's relevant to everyone
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like Barbara was saying, have you found that there are certain like when you look at your customer, your typical
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customer, are there certain personas that have emerged kind of organically that you know have kind of become a
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non-mass kind of more of a niche customer? Are there pockets of clusters or or is it just everyone? I mean, so
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I'm kind of interested in like how how this has evolved over the the last decade.
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>> Yeah, it's a great question. So, [clears throat] while it is something
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that is universally relevant, so we're not, you know, we're not like a men's
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personal care brand that's only relevant to a smaller audience. This is something
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that's applicable to everyone. But at the same time there is what we call a design consumer that is kind of a a more
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crystallized picture of the people who use liquid IV the most. So we've looked
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in our own consumer base and we've said something like the top 10 to 15% of people who use liquid IV. What are some
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of the things that we can learn about them to help identify people like them in the marketplace? And some of the
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things that we learn is like if you were to rank your your points of view on health and wellness or fitness on a
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scale of one to five. One being this is really not important to me. Five being this is extremely important to me. I do
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iron mans things like that. Our top consumers in liquid IV tend to be in the like four out of five range of that
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scale. So they are above average focused on their wellness routines, their health
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and fitness routines. They are actively looking for products that have sciencebacked functional benefits. They
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want to read the ingredient label. They want to understand what those ingredients are doing and even
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increasingly are interested in sustainability and social impact that the brands are doing and supporting
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businesses that they feel good about spending their dollar with. So some of those more like psychographic and
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behavioral, you know, insights are really what helps us craft our messaging. It helps inform what are the
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hero usage occasions that we really want to show in our advertising. Um, and it really guides a lot of the creative work
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that we do from a marketing standpoint. It also really helps inform our product development pipeline.
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>> That's pretty interesting. Let me just back up on one thing you said. you said
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something about the social impact issues and things like that that you might so what are the types of issues you might
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make a statement about. >> Yeah. So I think it is really important today to win both the minds and the
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hearts of consumers. That's where brands really are able to kind of um build that
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loyalty and build that equity that that creates community around the brand. So for us um that looks like our impact
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program. Over 1% of our company revenue goes to our impact program. Um, and that
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program works with nonprofit organizations that are domestic and international that are working on
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creating access to clean water in communities that don't >> perfect. [laughter]
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>> Actually, two million people in the US alone don't have access to clean water.
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So, it is a huge need. Everybody needs water to feel vitality. Our products need water to to exist.
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>> So, perfect. >> It's a social impact. I mean, it's an important important area.
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>> Yeah. It's a social impact mic drop. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Exactly. It's to your brand. It speaks
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to your brand identity, your community, your health and wellness. It's genuine.
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It's authentic and it's important. Like, wow. Perfect. >> Yeah. And, you know, a lot of brands
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will do this on the side. We have an entire impact department that sits within marketing. um a well staffed team
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that manages these relationships with nonprofits. Every year we do an annual conference where we bring them together.
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It's the really one of the only forums where these nonprofit organizations have
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an audience with each other to try to solve these [clears throat] challenges together. Um so it's a very very
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important part of what we do and we have also found that ourers they do respond well to it and and they they love the
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work that we do. >> That's so perfect because it's also not a controversial polarizing kind of club.
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And it it's just, you know, if you said, "What kind of thing do you want to do
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that's going to make sense?" This has got to hit every one of the markets
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>> 100%. Yeah. And it's to Barbara's point, Stacy, it's so fantastic because a big
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part of the of the brand exercise and the mission, the vision, etc. Uh to what Barbara is saying is that, you know,
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you're trying to create the thought leadership that in the space that then will create the permission structure to
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do a million other things. Now, not just, you know, the brand. I mean, you're building the brand. It's
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very powerful, >> right? To the brand and the identity of the brand. That's just wonderful. So, we
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have to wait to see exactly what like I like that idea of I mean, what people talk about with a Super Bowl ad is you
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get all the hype leading up and then all the hype leading down. And typically what they do is, as you say, show the ad
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and then people discuss the ad, then they see the ad, then they discuss it again. But you get to have all the
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conversation and still save some surprise for the big event, which is kind of a good way to do it.
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>> It's the most fun part going to see all the ads the day of. If we if we let the
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cat out of the bag early, then you know, we give away some of the humor and some
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of the experience that consumers are looking for on Super Bowl Sunday. >> So, are you going to go to the Super
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Bowl? Are you like as a sponsored? will be I will be in the area. Um but our [laughter] team we take our community
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management very seriously. So we are prepared to be interacting with other brands, responding to consumer comments
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on our social platforms. Uh and so I will be in the war room with the team uh responding in real time and kind of
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making sure that everything goes smoothly. So I won't be at the actual game but I will be in the area. Oh, so
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you're gonna be monitoring like all the social media activity that happens after
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the ad launches. Is that kind of what you're talking about? That's pretty
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interesting. >> That's very cool. That's very cool. >> So, you got do you have comedians in
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there or something? I mean, like like how do you respond like in a way that's
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clever, you know? I mean, I think that's really important to get that you can get
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a lot of to do that right. That's got to be an important piece of the whole campaign.
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>> Oh, there's an entire playbook on community response. um we have intentionally picked um you know a
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disruptive idea so we know we expect that people will have feelings about it we'll have comments about it and
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>> nice good >> we are ready with our witty responses we're we don't hire comedians although
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they are quite funny um our copyriters and our community management team so yeah they're ready to go
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>> that's nice >> that's now I'm really >> that's incred and now now now our
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interest is heavily peaked let me ask you this Stacy because we're pushing up
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a little bit here on time here. We Barbara and I often put our guests uh into the time capsule, if you will, uh
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and ask them to, you know, cuz you're deep in this world in terms of expertise
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since 2012, building this amazing brand. Take us 5 10 years out. What does this space look like? What are the things
00:25:38
that you and your team are paying attention to? you know, whatever those things are, like what what are some of
00:25:44
the things that you could share with us that is a more of a forward-looking uh crystal ball that you'd like to kind of
00:25:49
just impart a bit of wisdom with us? >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think in the
00:25:53
wellness space, what we're seeing right now and where I think this is going to
00:25:56
go for the foreseeable future is um continued expansion on what functional benefits are available to people. So,
00:26:04
you're seeing everything from gut health to cognitive support. Um, especially
00:26:10
with the growth of GLP1s, there's a very big focus, >> right? We didn't even get into that.
00:26:14
Yeah. >> Very big f focus on protein. Um, fiber, which is really needed to allow your
00:26:21
metabolism to continue to function on lower levels of food. And, um, obviously hydration continues to be a very big
00:26:27
need, especially with that growing trend. But I think you know expanding our thinking into the world of
00:26:32
functional benefits and how we can meet those shifting needs um is going to be a
00:26:37
very big focus for us. I think the second big wave that we can't go without talking is the explosive growth in AI.
00:26:46
So as yeah as AI continues to take off and becomes more uh consumer adopted shopping experiences becoming available
00:26:55
through your AI platforms how do we make sure that brands are well set up to succeed in a world where a lot of
00:27:02
people's searches are now happening on AI platforms and ultimately that's I
00:27:07
think honestly I think brands like Liquid IV stand to benefit in this situation because we have 12 clinical
00:27:14
studies that we've completed They are published in like very credible journals, scientific journals. Um, we
00:27:21
have an entire scientific advisory board that helps inform our product development. In a world where the
00:27:27
category is becoming increasingly cluttered and it is hard for consumers to discern what is real and what is not,
00:27:35
>> AI is actually going to be a very good tool that will help amplify where there
00:27:39
is actual scientific rigor and credibility in the products that you are buying. >> That is so So I know we're we're out of
00:27:46
time, but I just do want to c that's a really interesting point like how to leverage the AI platform. You want to
00:27:54
provide scientific information that they can pick up. So if people ask for like that kind of credibility, you already
00:28:01
have it. It's not opinion. Now you have the data. That's just an interest. It's
00:28:06
clearly right for what you're talking about in your strategy, but it's also an
00:28:09
interesting point for other brands to consider >> how to leverage the AI platform and the
00:28:14
and it's interesting to think about that as a search engine as opposed to like a
00:28:19
Google or an Amazon search or even a Tik Tok search. We're now talking about AI
00:28:24
search and suggesting that credible claims, scientific evidence is going to matter more in an AI search engine than
00:28:32
anywhere else. Right? Like that is a very cool point. I love that. >> Very insightful,
00:28:36
>> Stacy. But unfortunately, America's asked you that terrific question right
00:28:40
at the end of our [laughter] time. >> We want to thank you very much, Stacy
00:28:45
Andre Wells, the CMO of Liquid IV, for joining us today. And tell us and our listeners where we can learn more about
00:28:52
you and the brand and things you're doing. >> Um, absolutely. Uh, you can follow us on
00:28:57
Instagram, on Tik Tok, Liquid IV. liquid.com is a great source for all of the brand knowledge. All of our latest
00:29:04
clinicals and science backing is up on that website. And of course, make sure you are seated on Super Bowl Sunday so
00:29:11
that you don't miss our amazing spot. >> No, I'm gonna be there. [laughter]
00:29:15
>> Oh, no doubt. This is awesome. >> Yeah, that's great. Thanks. That's all
00:29:19
we have time for today. We'd like to thank our producers, Dion Simkins and Marissa Rena. Thank you all for
00:29:24
listening today. We'll be back next week. Till then, this has been Marketing
00:29:28
Matters on the Wharton podcast network. I'm Barbara Khan here with America's
00:29:32
Reed.