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hello I'm Katherine Klein I'm the vice
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Dean for social impact at Wharton and a
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professor in the management department
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and delighted to be talking with our
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guest Fred swaner Fred swaner is a
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Serial entrepreneur and leadership
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development expert making huge positive
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social impact in Africa he founded the
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African Leadership Academy the African
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leadership Network and ALU the African
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leadership universities and has been
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named a Ted fellow a world economic
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forum young Global leader one of the top
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10 Young powermen in Africa by Forbes
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Magazine and other honors so Fred it's
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great to have you with us and thank you
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um it's pleasure to be here great so
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let's start let's start broad you know
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tell us is is Africa a good place for
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business
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today I think that Africa is the most
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exciting place for business in the world
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today um it has uh it offers the second
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highest rate of return for globally in
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terms of Investments today but more
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importantly you see I think that
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um uh there are certain long-term trends
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that are taking place in Africa which um
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provide fantastic opportunities for
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investors um and Business Leaders to
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actually um not only have impact uh and
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feel good about investing but actually
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to really make a lot of money as well at
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this this is not the the image of we are
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likely to get of Africa on the front
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page of American News newspapers for
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example no not at all and I think it's
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also quite different from uh the way for
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example Chinese investors are seeing
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Africa oh okay you know and I think the
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way I I um the way I look at it is that
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the average American um business leader
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never remembers a time when the USA
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looked like Africa does sure so if you
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think about um you know it took the the
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US has been fairly developed for the
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last 100 years right so your parents or
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your grandparents never remember the
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time right when this country looked like
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Africa right but if you think about how
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fast China is developed and where China
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was 30 years ago for the average Chinese
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business leader going to Africa they
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look around they're like oh this looks
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like what China was like 30 years ago
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right so for them they don't think this
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is a place I come and do charity yes and
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give um to people who I need they think
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this is a place for me to come and do
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business right because I actually get to
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do what we did in in China all over
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again right and I think that this is the
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the the block that that most investors
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in the US have is that it's just
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difficult to go there and imagine that
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what you see could actually be any
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different so so what you're saying is
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this is a time for investment in Africa
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not charity absolutely because there's
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no region in the world that has
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developed through charity you know the
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only thing that drives
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prosperity and job creation and brings
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people um out of poverty is
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entrepreneurship it's business that's
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what creates that you know there's not
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enough government spending there's not
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enough Charities there's not enough Aid
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to to drive development it has to come
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from the ground through entrepreneurship
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and and that's what Africa needs at at
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this point so talk to us about the needs
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in Africa do and what will it take to
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build entrepreneurship in Africa and to
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build the the employment in Africa and
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and what are you trying to do to to move
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the needle on I believe that for in any
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part of the world for an entrepreneur
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venture to take off there three things
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that need to come together
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you need an idea you need the team that
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can execute the idea and you need some
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Capital yeah I think that for me is a
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fundamental of any business idea in the
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US and more developed markets the mix of
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those three things is that you have
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plenty of people you know thousands of
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people who are educated top universities
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every year um you know there's a long
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long huge huge stock of human capital
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that can execute things there's billions
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of dollars of capital trillions of
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dollars of capital that to be able to
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invest in things what is scarce in more
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development markets are the ideas
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because so much has already been done
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right you know had 300 years of
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development you go to Africa the mix of
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those three things is
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different the ideas are plenty you know
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everywhere you look you pick up a stone
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there's another idea right and and you
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don't have to be a rocket scientist at
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all because you just have to look at
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what are simple goods and services that
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are offered elsewhere right that have
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not been offered yet in Africa and you
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just have to almost copy those there's
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no chain of of retail stores oh maybe I
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should build supermarkets here there's
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no uh system of consumer credit maybe I
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should be the first to introduce credit
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cards or other forms of Consumer Finance
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there's there isn't enough education
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maybe I should build a chain of
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for-profit schools so it's not complex
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ideas yeah plenty of ideas increasingly
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actually the capital is available in
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Africa it's not necessarily US capital
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but there's more and more Capital coming
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into into Africa what is scarce are the
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people who can execute these ideas and
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so what I've devoted my time and my real
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passion is in creating those people
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right developing those people who are
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going to be the leaders the
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entrepreneurs who are going to not only
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establish small scale Enterprise but are
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going to establish large scale
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investable Enterprise that are going to
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create hundreds of thousands of jobs and
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that are really going to bring Africa
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out of poverty so that's my passion
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right and so 10 years ago you founded
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the African Leadership Academy and this
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was probably your your first major play
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so tell us about that and then I want to
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hear about the African leadership
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universities but what what is African
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Leadership Academy
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well African Leadership Academy the the
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the philosophy behind is that if you
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think about a lot of the world's great
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entrepreneurs and great leaders they
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started young yeah you think about
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Richard Branson was 16 when he started
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virgin um Bill Gates was 19 when he
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started Microsoft Steve Jobs same age
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Mark Zuckerberg 17 the founders of
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Google were 21 so um this is really very
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often the the lifeblood of
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Entrepreneurship it's young people
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people who are not afraid to dream big
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and who have the energy to really bring
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tremendous ideas to life so throughout
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Africa these young people exist what
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hasn't existed in the past is that
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someone to believe in them and to give
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them a chance because you know I went to
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business school at Stanford and one of
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the reasons I was curious about going to
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Stanford is I really wanted to
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understand what's different about
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Silicon Valley that creates all these
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you know tremendous entrepreneurs that
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change the world is there something
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special about the water that they drink
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there right you know what is really
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unique and I went there I real you know
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there's nothing special about the water
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or the air in Silicon Valley the only
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difference is that venture capitalist
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investors take a 17-year-old kid with an
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idea seriously right and next thing of
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Facebook is created so I thought what if
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we could go around Africa and find the
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same equivalence the African Mark
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Zuckerberg at 17 the next African Steve
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Jobs or the Bill Gates or the next um
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you know Nelson Mandela at the age of 17
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18 19 and then bring them into a special
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program where you you develop their um
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their entrepreneurial leadership skills
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you give them more class education and
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then you also plug them into very
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powerful Network because I believe that
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no matter how good your skills are as a
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leader or an entrepreneur if you don't
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have access to the right mentors people
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can invest in you who can open doors
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introduce you to your first customer Etc
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you'll never be able to take your
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potential to the full level so that's
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where we started and it's a twoe program
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it's a two-year program we identify we
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get about 3 to 4,000 applicants a year
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from across the continent 48 different
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countries we select the top 100 they
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joined this program for two years we
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educate them they get hands on to be
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clear it's harder to get into ala than
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into Wharton or Stanford or Harvard or
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Harvard yes yeah we we're admitting
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about 3% of the applicants so this is
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really the cream of the crop of Africa
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in terms of but we're selecting them not
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because of the financial means they have
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right right we're selecting them because
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of the potential impact they have they
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can have on the continent so many of
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them at the age of 16 or 17 have started
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companies they've invented products
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they've LED political movements in their
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countries and so forth and we say okay
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if you did all this on your own without
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anyone investing you imagine what we can
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do if we bring you into this network
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invest in you develop you educate you
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and then plug you into these networks so
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um they leave their Academy and then go
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into top universities around the world
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and then they all have a a contract with
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us that they must return to Africa by
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the age of 25 and and serve on the C for
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at least 10 years so this has been
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obviously a tremendously successful and
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inspiring model um but you've recently
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said Okay that was great but we need to
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be looking Beyond High School Beyond
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sending African students out to the
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universities around the world we need to
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create worldclass universities in Africa
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so tell us more about that vision and
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how on Earth you and others can pull
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this off yeah so as you men you know
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it's been incredibly fulfilling seeing
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the African Leadership Academy come to
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life and over the next 50 so far we have
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700 young leaders that are under
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development and over a 50e time frame
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this is going to create 6,000 leaders
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that are going to transform Africa um
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but um a couple of things have been trou
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troubling me one is that we would get
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4,000 applications every year and we
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could only take 100 students so I
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thought you know wow all these people
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with potential talent that we're leaving
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on the on the streets um and I saw so
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much hunger thought how do we give
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access to more people the second thing
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that troubled me is that after students
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came to the academy we would have to
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send 80% of them to college in the
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states um or to Europe right and so I
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thought you know why are we sending all
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our students outside of Africa why don't
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we have the equivalent of Harvard and
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Stanford and Warton and Yale and
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Princeton in Africa right you
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world-class universities that our
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students can go to um and um so that's
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what inspired me to start African
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leadership University and the vision we
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have is to build 25 brand new
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universities across the continent uh
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each with 10,000 students so this would
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about 250,000 students at a time and
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it's over the next 50 years this would
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now allow us to develop 6,000 sorry 3
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million leaders so this is a h but
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you're so where are you in the process
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you've you've you're starting with the
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first University we're opening the first
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campus um in the next few months um and
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uh we're starting with about 200
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students um and uh we're planning to
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start on the island of macius and then
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um after that we're looking to open in
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other countries around the continent and
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um you know this is a it's a big dream
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and so we're not expecting it's going to
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happen overnight right you know I think
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in terms of decades when I when I look
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at my projects so because I I really
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believe that Africa's development is a
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50 to 100 year project and we have to
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think that long term and put the
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foundation in place that's actually
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going to develop it once and for all and
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so you know this is a 20 it's going to
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take us 15 20 25 years to roll out these
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universities but what matters to us is
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the quality uh and we're going to take
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our time and do it right um to make sure
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that we can really use this as an engine
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for driving and Africa's trans what
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these what will these universities look
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like I mean we looking at universities
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around the United States and around the
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world that are hundreds and hundreds of
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years old you know people will comment
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on universities that we are some of the
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most traditional institutions and organ
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some of the oldest organizations in the
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world we don't change easily yes exactly
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uh so are you asking well you're not
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really asking us to change you're asking
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for a new model of a university in
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Africa yes exactly you see I think one
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of the best things about Africa is the
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fact that we don't have any Legacy
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there's so many things that we can do um
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where we can actually create not just
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copy a model that is not perfect but
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really create a new and improved model
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um and you know one of the things we
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don't have in Africa are faculty who are
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on tenure who will tell us that we can't
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do things differently we don't have
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professors and we don't have alumni who
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are going to say well that's different
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from the way I went to school we don't
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have donors who are going to put
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pressure on us you know so that allows
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us to say we have a clean slate let's
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imagine if you were to build a
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University from scratch for the 21st
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century because as you mentioned you
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know most universities in the US have
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built that especially the best ones 300
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years ago the world has changed
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tremendously during that time but a lot
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of what happens at these universities
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had not changed during that time you
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know so there are many things that we're
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doing um to completely reinvent the
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university for example um we looked at
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the length of the degree the typical us
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college to go to one of the top
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universities today you're spending about
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$60,000 a year so $240,000 investment
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for four-year degree but when we
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actually analyze the amount of time that
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students are spending in class every
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year you find that
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um students typically get five to six
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months of vacation every year so today
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you might pay $240,000 to go to an ivy
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league university and you get 2.3 years
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of education right that for us is a
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travesty you know and we definitely
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can't afford to do that in Africa so in
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our model it's a threeyear degree and
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during those three years you'll spend
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eight months on campus every year and
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four months with an employer so you
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graduate with actually more education in
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the three years than a foure degree and
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with onee work experience under your
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belt already which also makes you much
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more attractive to so what is you know
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so hearing a lot obviously about mukes
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massive online open courses about the
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the potential for technology to to uh
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revolutionized education uh universities
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in the United States are you know trying
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to figure figure out this new world and
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how do we integrate technology do we
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integrate technology what is the threat
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to us you're not talking about just
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online education no you see I you know
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as has been shown with there was a lot
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of excitements that came out about muks
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right um but what became clear is that
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that's not the it's not a silver bullet
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solution because the completion rates
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are very low typically less than 10% of
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people who start Mooks actually finish
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right so um and from from the beginning
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you know we've never thought that that
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was that was the answer because the best
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learning is social you still need human
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intervention and so forth so what we're
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doing with our universities um that
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these are fully residential campuses
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right there's no option to be a day
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student um and what we're doing is we
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are leveraging the power of muks and
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other Technologies to actually say you
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know let's break the Monopoly on
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knowledge that any given University
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might have so um you know today if you
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go to a university they'll forc you to
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take all the content the curriculum from
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that University whether it's good or bad
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and we're saying you know what let's
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actually look around the world and
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curate the world's best curriculum let's
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pick the best from this University and
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that University and that University and
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bring it together in one place let's
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pick the best from industry let's look
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at what other research is being done
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bring it together in one place using
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technology and then let's also leverage
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the the the power of pure learning right
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because what we don't have in Africa are
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professors with phds what we do have are
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lots of brilliant students right so
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let's use that abundant resource and so
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students will learn by
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themselves using all this this this free
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knowledge that's out there they learn
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from each other and teach each other and
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Studies have shown that when you have to
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teach something someone else you learn
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it much better and then finally we will
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still have faculty on the ground but the
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faculty are um one of three types of
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people they recent college graduates
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they mid-career professionals or their
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retired Executives and we're selecting
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them not because they're good at
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research but because they're really good
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at teaching and they're good at and
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they're passionate about teaching which
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is one of the things I think that's
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broken with the university model as well
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they're fantastic for producing research
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and knowledge for publication but it's
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not always the best experience for
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undergraduates right because many
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professors this could be a very
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significant disruptive innovation that
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many professors do not enjoy teaching
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and they haven't been hired because
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they're good at teaching they've been
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hir and are rewarded for their research
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so we're saying let's decouple the two
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get the world's best research from
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different places and find the world's
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best teachers and train them to to be
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teachers and then also um support these
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these faculty with with a very
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sophisticated analytical platform that
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allows them to understand what the
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students are learning and what they're
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struggling with so that they can use it
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to TA their tailor their lessons better
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and also to make sure that no student
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gets left behind because today sometimes
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the professor only knows you're
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struggling at the end of term when they
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turn in the paper and you get a D in
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this model because of the analytics you
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can pick up with a student struggling by
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Wednesday of week and call them into
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your office and so that way no one can
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hide right so what's been the response
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so far to your to this this model and
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this this idea that you have well the
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response in Africa has been tremendous I
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mean the the need is so great right um
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in Africa graduates about 45 million
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students a year from high schools and
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the universities can only absorb 4.5
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million of them wow so to catch up you
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know the tertiary enrollment rate in
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Africa which is the percentage of
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students who are of tertiary going age
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that are actually enrolled m m in t
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institutions is 8% wow in uh India it's
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18% in the west it's about 70% so just
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to catch up to India's level not even to
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try to make it to the West we would need
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to build we've calculated because of the
00:16:43
rate at which Africa's population is
00:16:44
growing it's the fastest rate in the
00:16:45
world and the Youth of our population we
00:16:47
would need to build 135 universities the
00:16:49
size of Harvard every single year for
00:16:51
the next 15 years just to catch up to
00:16:54
India and so so there's demand for what
00:16:57
you have to off tremendous demand and so
00:16:59
we've you know we've opened our um
00:17:01
applications for the first class and
00:17:02
within 60 days we had 5,000 applications
00:17:05
uh for just 200 slots W so um you know
00:17:08
the reception from the students has been
00:17:10
tremendous and you'll have so you know
00:17:11
you have an amazing population of
00:17:13
students to work with to pick from
00:17:14
exactly yeah and you and and part of the
00:17:16
training is a lot of internship
00:17:18
experience for these students as well so
00:17:20
the the goal is that they are getting
00:17:21
great education partly through peers and
00:17:24
they're getting trained for for business
00:17:26
well they're TR getting trained for of
00:17:29
not just for business because I hope
00:17:30
that half of them will come
00:17:32
entrepreneurs on their own right so um
00:17:35
but what we're trying to do with the
00:17:36
internships is to give them skills right
00:17:38
because we believe that and this another
00:17:40
thing that I think the university model
00:17:41
is broken many universities Focus only
00:17:44
on giving you Theory and content and and
00:17:47
and hope that the skills that employers
00:17:49
want rubs off you by accident and we're
00:17:51
saying
00:17:52
actually the real thing that you should
00:17:54
be getting out of University are
00:17:56
skills and um make it much more explicit
00:17:59
about that mhm um because you know the
00:18:02
world is changing so fast the actual
00:18:03
knowledge becomes obsolete right so you
00:18:06
know if you started doing uh marketing
00:18:09
seven years ago true You' be talking
00:18:11
about marketing on billboards and TV and
00:18:13
radio by time you graduate the world has
00:18:16
changed to digital marketing right right
00:18:17
you started doing computer science six
00:18:19
years ago you've been learning about how
00:18:20
to code for the computer a PC a laptop
00:18:23
by the time you graduate the world has
00:18:24
moved to Mobile so you want to teach
00:18:25
people how to think right teach people
00:18:27
how to think critically how to
00:18:28
communicate how to collaborate how to
00:18:29
lead yourself how to lead others those
00:18:32
are the skills that will endure with you
00:18:33
as the world changes and so that's what
00:18:35
we we we embedd in them during their
00:18:37
formal time on campus and then every
00:18:39
year as I mentioned you're spending four
00:18:41
months with an employer actually
00:18:42
practicing those skills and learning
00:18:44
about the industry and by the time you
00:18:47
graduate after three years you already
00:18:49
you have these skills you have this work
00:18:51
experience and so there should be no
00:18:53
reason why an employer isn't clamoring
00:18:55
to hire you or that you aren't equipped
00:18:58
yourself to start your own business
00:19:00
which I think we need to do a lot of in
00:19:01
Africa because then that's why
00:19:02
entrepreneurship training is such a key
00:19:03
part of our so so to to wrap up we've
00:19:06
I've heard you speak about
00:19:07
entrepreneurship and and the the
00:19:09
opportunities for entrepreneurship and
00:19:10
the need for entrepreneurship in Africa
00:19:12
and the need to deliver the kinds of
00:19:16
products that you see in the United
00:19:17
States and Elsewhere for much at a much
00:19:20
know cheaper price much lower price yeah
00:19:22
and um so this is really what you're
00:19:24
trying to do with ALU yeah yeah exactly
00:19:26
I mean I think that the business models
00:19:28
you can't go to afca with the same
00:19:29
business model there's a lot of money to
00:19:30
be made in Africa there's a lot of
00:19:31
impact you can have in Africa but you
00:19:33
can't go there with just the same
00:19:34
business model elsewhere you need to
00:19:36
think completely radically and and
00:19:39
redesign them the model and say you know
00:19:40
there are consumers there who have needs
00:19:43
they have uh some you know financial
00:19:46
means how do you design a solution to um
00:19:49
serve that and very often involves
00:19:50
leveraging technology like what we're
00:19:52
doing with the African leadership
00:19:53
University but similarly entrepreneurs
00:19:55
need to think about how do I do this to
00:19:57
provide lowcost housing right how do I
00:19:59
do this to provide lowcost healthare how
00:20:01
do I do this to provide low lowcost you
00:20:03
know consumer goods there's so many
00:20:04
needs that you know we have a billion
00:20:07
consumers that's growing at the fastest
00:20:09
rate in the world they're going to be a
00:20:10
population of two billion by you know in
00:20:12
in in the next 30 Years so that is a
00:20:15
massive massive market right uh and uh
00:20:18
you know we have Africans are having
00:20:20
fewer and fewer children therefore the
00:20:21
dependency ratio is going down so
00:20:23
Africans uh have more money to spend
00:20:26
right and so there's a tremendous
00:20:28
opportunity I think that this is really
00:20:31
um where especially with aging
00:20:33
population in the west where there's
00:20:35
increasing demands on Pension funds and
00:20:37
so forth to get
00:20:38
returns one of the places that's going
00:20:40
to solve this is investing in Africa
00:20:42
yeah great thank you so much for being
00:20:44
with us is really inspiring and I mean
00:20:46
really so exciting so thank you so much
00:20:49
thank you for having me
00:20:57
[Music]
