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Why Wall Street Traders Keep Making a Fortune

October 15, 2015 / 12:16

This episode discusses the compensation of financial workers, the impact of their specific tasks, and the competition among firms for skilled labor. Key topics include labor market models, externalities, and the roles of speculative traders versus financial engineers.

The conversation features insights from Richard Larry of the University of Texas at Austin, who co-authored a paper examining how the financial sector's structure affects worker pay. The paper highlights that financial firms often allocate significant portions of their revenues to employee compensation, with 50% typically going to workers.

Richard explains the distinction between two types of financial workers: those who engage in speculative trading and those who focus on financial innovation. He notes that speculative traders can create negative externalities for rival firms, leading to higher compensation due to the competitive advantage they provide.

Additionally, Richard discusses how the number of firms and the types of tasks workers perform influence compensation levels. For example, financial engineers may earn less when competing firms hire many traders, while traders may benefit from fewer firms competing for their services.

The episode concludes with a broader takeaway about how compensation in finance may not always correlate with the social value created by workers, suggesting implications for regulation and market understanding.

TL;DR

Richard Larry discusses how financial workers' tasks impact their compensation and the competitive dynamics among firms in the finance sector.

Episode

12:16
00:00:05
in my paper with Richard Larry from the
00:00:06
University of Texas at Austin we try to
00:00:09
understand how the specific tasks that
00:00:10
workers and finance perform will affect
00:00:13
their compensation we think this is an
00:00:15
important topic because the financial
00:00:18
sector is a big part of the economy in
00:00:20
the US the financial sector represents
00:00:22
10% of US
00:00:25
GDP also a lot of the money that is
00:00:28
flowing through the financial sector and
00:00:30
ends up being used to compensate workers
00:00:33
typically a Wall Street firm will use
00:00:35
50% of it of its revenues to pay its
00:00:38
workers so there's a lot of money that
00:00:40
is Flowing from the US economy to
00:00:43
financial workers and we try to
00:00:44
understand how that works so what we do
00:00:47
in the paper is we propose a labor
00:00:50
market model where Financial firms
00:00:53
compete for the services of a limited
00:00:55
supply of skilled workers and these
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workers can be as allocated or they can
00:01:00
be hired to become traders who speculate
00:01:05
with other firms about the value of an
00:01:07
asset or they can be uh hired to create
00:01:11
a surplus by finding profitable
00:01:13
investment opportunities so for the
00:01:16
first task what they do is a zero sum
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game they participate in a zero sum game
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they help the firm extract Surplus away
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from rival firms on the other hand if
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they if these workers are hired to find
00:01:32
investment profitable investment
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opportunities like finding the next
00:01:35
Tesla or finding the next Facebook they
00:01:38
create a surplus for the whole sector
00:01:41
and we show in this paper that the
00:01:43
externalities that these workers impose
00:01:45
on other firms will affect their
00:01:47
compensation and by specifically
00:01:50
modeling these tasks like speculative
00:01:52
trading or investment we're able to talk
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about how the compensation and the
00:01:58
employment of workers in finance can be
00:02:01
affected by the investment opportunities
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the liquidity needs and the trading
00:02:06
networks that we
00:02:11
observe so the key takeaway of my paper
00:02:15
is that the specific tasks that workers
00:02:19
perform in finance will have a big
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impact on how firms compete for their
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services for example take a financial
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engineer who is hired to find better
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ways to hedge interest rate risk so that
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engineer by innovating by finding that
00:02:36
better hedging strategy will benefit his
00:02:40
employer but also all the other firms in
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the sector who will then be able to to
00:02:45
use this strategy to hedge their risk so
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when firms bid for the services of this
00:02:51
worker when they're trying to compete
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for the uh the this worker they're not
00:02:57
as aggressive because they know they can
00:02:59
still Ben benefit from the innovation of
00:03:01
that worker even though they don't hire
00:03:04
this financial
00:03:05
engineer now take a speculative Trader
00:03:09
whose job is to take advantage of other
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financial institutions right take
00:03:15
advantage of the counterparties better
00:03:17
value the Securities that are being
00:03:19
traded between his or her employer and
00:03:23
their counter parties right now
00:03:26
acquiring the expertise of this this
00:03:29
Trad is very important because instead
00:03:32
of gaining say $5 million by better
00:03:36
valuing the Securities that are about to
00:03:38
be
00:03:39
traded The Firm might lose $5 million to
00:03:43
that to the firm that employs this
00:03:45
Trader so we go from a profit of $5
00:03:48
million to a loss of $5 million so now
00:03:52
firms are willing to pay up to $10
00:03:54
million for the services of this worker
00:03:57
first $5 million for the profits that he
00:04:00
creates but also $55 million to make
00:04:02
sure that this worker is not used
00:04:05
against them that second $5 million
00:04:09
amount is what we call the difference
00:04:11
premium this is how much you're willing
00:04:13
to pay for a worker to make sure he he
00:04:17
or she does not work for one of your
00:04:20
counterparties and and use is
00:04:22
competitive competitive advantage
00:04:25
against you so that's one thing that's a
00:04:27
key Insight another Insight is has to do
00:04:30
with the interactions between different
00:04:33
types of jobs right think of a situation
00:04:36
where a firm's counter
00:04:38
parties hired a lot of Traders a lot of
00:04:41
good Traders and these Traders are able
00:04:44
to trade or value the Securities that
00:04:48
your financial Engineers have created
00:04:50
what that means is if you hire Financial
00:04:53
Engineers you're going to lose a lot of
00:04:56
the Surplus that these Financial
00:04:57
Engineers create to other firms because
00:05:01
they have good Traders so what that that
00:05:03
means is that in equilibrium your
00:05:05
financial
00:05:06
engineer and financial Engineers will
00:05:09
earn less if other firms have hired a
00:05:12
lot of smart speculative
00:05:14
Traders on the other hand if other firms
00:05:18
have hired a lot of Smart Financial
00:05:20
Engineers that means they have created a
00:05:23
lot of good Securities that might need
00:05:25
to be traded in the future so the
00:05:28
compensation you willing to offer for
00:05:30
your Traders will go up if these guys
00:05:33
have hired a lot of financial engineer
00:05:35
so not only are two traders who might
00:05:38
have this very similar
00:05:40
skills not only are they paid
00:05:43
differently but also the compensation of
00:05:46
one type of worker will be comp will be
00:05:49
affected greatly by how many workers of
00:05:53
a different type are hired by rival
00:05:55
firms
00:06:00
first we find that eye compensation for
00:06:02
financial workers might arise in cases
00:06:05
where only a few firms are competing for
00:06:07
their services right when there's only a
00:06:10
few firms in the sector trading
00:06:13
Securities they only a few of them can
00:06:15
hire these Traders so in most models you
00:06:18
will say well that's bad for the workers
00:06:20
lower compensation When there's less
00:06:22
demand for their services but since a
00:06:24
lot of the compensation that we observe
00:06:27
in our model comes from the
00:06:28
externalities it actually helps the
00:06:31
traders to have few firms trading or
00:06:34
competing for their services and the
00:06:36
reason is that if there are only a few
00:06:38
firms then the externalities are greater
00:06:41
and the defense premium is greater M
00:06:44
leading to high compensation for Traders
00:06:47
the opposite can be said said about
00:06:49
these Financial Engineers if there's if
00:06:52
there are very few firms that are
00:06:54
looking to hire their their U the these
00:06:57
Financial Engineers the externality that
00:06:59
they impose on these firms are big and
00:07:02
therefore there's very little
00:07:04
compensation for them their compensation
00:07:06
is
00:07:07
low now there's the other surprising
00:07:11
fact too and it is that when there's
00:07:14
more entry in the financial sector when
00:07:16
there are more workers who want to work
00:07:19
in finance we might have com the average
00:07:22
compensation paid to these workers go up
00:07:26
and the reason has to do with the
00:07:27
allocation of workers how workers are
00:07:30
assigned to different tasks take the
00:07:32
extreme example where a firm first needs
00:07:35
to hire a final engineer to design a
00:07:39
security and then everyone else that
00:07:42
this firm hires will end up being
00:07:45
assigned to the trading task to
00:07:47
speculative trading so now if there's
00:07:50
only one worker being employed by that
00:07:52
firm that one worker is a financial
00:07:54
engineer okay and earns the lower
00:07:58
compensation but but then everyone else
00:08:00
afterwards starts making more money
00:08:03
because these new workers that are hired
00:08:06
by The Firm are imposing negative
00:08:08
externalities on the firm so we start
00:08:11
with only one worker making a low salary
00:08:13
and we keep adding more workers who
00:08:16
benefit from this this defense premium
00:08:19
overall as the supply of or or as the
00:08:22
number of workers increases we have
00:08:24
higher average compensation
00:08:30
our model helps us understand a few
00:08:33
recently documented empirical facts
00:08:35
about compensation and finance first we
00:08:39
know that top Wall Street firms tend to
00:08:41
pay their uh interest rate option
00:08:43
Traders about twice as much as they pay
00:08:46
their foreign exchange option Traders
00:08:48
this could be puzzling if you only uh
00:08:51
thought about the skills that these guys
00:08:53
bring to the table but our model
00:08:55
highlights the the role that trading
00:08:58
comp concentration can can play for this
00:09:01
difference right the interest rate
00:09:03
option Market is a lot more concentrated
00:09:06
than the foreign exchange option Market
00:09:09
therefore we should observe that the
00:09:11
traders of interest rate options should
00:09:14
earn a higher defense premium and a
00:09:16
higher compensation than foreign
00:09:18
exchange option Traders the other thing
00:09:21
that our model helps us understand is
00:09:23
why we've seen in recent decades an
00:09:26
increase in the average compensation in
00:09:28
finance this despite the the the many
00:09:31
people who have entered this sector so
00:09:34
we have a lot of graduate students or
00:09:36
undergraduate students who enter the
00:09:38
market yet the compensation keep going
00:09:41
up the last thing is is kind of a more
00:09:44
broad uh kind of a broader takeaway as
00:09:47
and it has to do with the fact that our
00:09:49
model highlights our
00:09:51
compensation might not necessarily be
00:09:54
linked with the social value that is
00:09:56
created by a worker or by a task so some
00:10:00
tasks might be underpaid
00:10:02
undercompensated like Financial
00:10:04
Innovation and some tasks might end up
00:10:06
being overpaid or overcompensated in
00:10:09
equilibrium task like speculative
00:10:12
trading and this might help people
00:10:15
understand how to uh better regulate or
00:10:18
better uh think about the compensation
00:10:21
that is offered in the
00:10:26
market we carefully consider the tasks
00:10:29
that that Financial workers perform for
00:10:30
their firms right unlike in other
00:10:33
Industries where most workers produce
00:10:36
help the firm produce
00:10:38
Goods the the workers in our in our
00:10:41
model they trade Securities which
00:10:43
imposes negative externalities on other
00:10:46
firms or they find uh new Financial
00:10:49
Innovation they identify new Financial
00:10:50
innovations that will create a surplus
00:10:52
for all sector and the fact that we
00:10:55
model these interactions among firms
00:10:58
allow us to uncover
00:10:59
the effect of externalities on
00:11:02
compensation in a model without
00:11:05
externalities or where we don't model
00:11:07
the we don't look at the interactions
00:11:09
across firms we will see all workers
00:11:12
with the same ability level making the
00:11:14
same amount of money but in our model we
00:11:18
have externalities among firms the firms
00:11:20
when they bid for these workers when
00:11:22
they try to hire them they consider
00:11:24
these externalities as part of the
00:11:26
equation and in the end what we get is
00:11:28
that workers who impose negative
00:11:31
externalities on other firms the the
00:11:34
speculative traders who are are part of
00:11:36
a zero SU game they are they earn more
00:11:39
money they make they they have a higher
00:11:42
compensation than the financial
00:11:44
Engineers the bankers and the other
00:11:47
types of workers who impose positive
00:11:49
externalities on the firms that failed
00:11:51
to hire them
00:11:55
[Music]

Episode Highlights

  • Understanding Financial Compensation
    A study reveals how tasks in finance impact worker compensation and firm competition.
    “The specific tasks that workers perform in finance will have a big impact.”
    @ 02m 15s
    October 15, 2015
  • The Role of Externalities
    Externalities among firms significantly influence compensation for financial workers.
    “Compensation might not necessarily be linked with the social value created.”
    @ 09m 49s
    October 15, 2015

Episode Quotes

  • The financial sector represents 10% of US GDP.
    Why Wall Street Traders Keep Making a Fortune
  • The specific tasks that workers perform in finance will have a big impact.
    Why Wall Street Traders Keep Making a Fortune
  • Compensation might not necessarily be linked with the social value created.
    Why Wall Street Traders Keep Making a Fortune

Key Moments

  • Financial Sector Impact00:22
  • Task Importance02:15
  • Externalities Insight09:49

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

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