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This podcast is brought to you
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by Knowledge at Wharton.
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Hello, my name is Stephanie Creary
and I'm an Assistant Professor
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of Management at the Wharton School
of the University of Pennsylvania.
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And I'm delighted to welcome you
to today's episode of the
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Knowledge at Wharton
Leading Diversity at Work Podcast series,
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which is focused on disability
access in the workplace.
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Joining me
today are two very special guests.
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First, we have Sheila Xu,
who is a dual degree Master of Business
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Administration, degree candidate
at the Wharton School, my home institution,
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and Master of Public Policy degree
candidate at the Harvard Kennedy School.
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She is a disabilities advocate and researcher
and pilot who recently participated
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in a zero-gravity
flight experiment with AstroAccess.
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We're going to hear more
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about this experiment and more
about AstroAccess a little bit later.
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But Astro Access is an organization dedicated
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to promoting disability
inclusion in space exploration.
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Sheila is also deaf.
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Next, we have
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Dr. Sheri Wells-Jensen, who is NASA/
Library of Congress chair in Astrobiology
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and an Associate Professor of Linguistics
at Bowling
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Green State University in Bowling
Green, Ohio.
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She is on the AstroAccess
Leadership team.
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Along with various aspects
of astrobiology,
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Sheri’s research interests include social
aspects of human colonization,
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disability and the relationship
between language, embodiment and thought;
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language evolution and ways
in which alternative sensory
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inputs could influence the evolution
of scientific thought.
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Sheri is on the board of SOCIA
S-O-C-I-A
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which is stands for Social
and Conceptual Issues in Astrobiology
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and METI, M-E-T-I
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Messaging, Extraterrestrial Intelligence,
International.
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Sheri is also a blind person
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who has been on a couple of zero
gravity flights as well.
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Welcome, Sheila and Sheri.
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Thank you so much for joining us today.
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I'm so honored to have you here with me
on the podcast
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for a conversation
about disability access in the workplace.
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So I want to start us off
by just getting to know a little bit more
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about each of you, having
you share a bit about yourselves,
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including your background on the topic
of disability access in the workplace.
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And I also would love for you to share
how you know each other.
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So I'd like to start with you, Sheila.
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Please share with us more about
who you are, including your background,
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and we'd like to also hear about the work
that you're doing with AstroAccess.
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Well, hello everybody.
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Yes, my name is Sheila,
and this is how I sign my name.
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Let me think for just a moment.
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In terms of disability access
and the workplace,
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accommodations
and accessibility is not always provided.
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It really can depend on the environment
and the culture --
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what's happening socially in the setting.
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Equality as well as equity
and how that's being addressed.
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And what we need to succeed
in the workplace.
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We do have a law here
in the United States, the Americans
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with Disabilities Act,
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but attitudes are important as well
when it comes to inclusion in many areas,
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not just in classroom settings or work
settings, but opportunities for network
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and socializing, -- incidental
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learning opportunities as well
that need to be accessible.
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For example,
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there are are a lot of hearing people
who just by being in a space, have access
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to the communication
happening in that space
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where deaf people can lose out on a lot of
that incidentally learned information
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and how we resolve that is very important
in terms of creating
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equal access and opportunities
for everyone in all situations.
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And how that brings us to AstroAccess.
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I believe that space will be our future.
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Right now there are a lot of people
who are really starting to think
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about the greater future,
about going up into space.
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And if we are thinking about that,
how do we think about including people
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with disabilities
within those opportunities to go to space?
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I would also add
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that if we are looking
at making the workplace and systems
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as well as the space stations accessible,
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we're really talking
about universal design,
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which would not only benefit me
and people like me,
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but it would benefit all peoples.
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If we look at universal design, it’s
very similar to looking at ways
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to create more safe
places, reducing risks for people.
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And space is a dangerous place
in and of itself.
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People will get hurt in space at some point.
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So how do we account for that?
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Well, to account for that,
we need to look at people like ourselves.
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We are,
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and we set the gold standard,
frankly, for design within any system,
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specifically
looking at how we apply that to space.
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Thank you, Sheila.
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Let me turn to you, Sheri.
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I would love to know more about
who you are,
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your background.
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Also, can you tell us more about AstroAccess
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and certainly how you've come
to get to know Sheila a bit better?
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Absolutely. Thank you.
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Sheila said all the good stuff already,
so I'm in a good position
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to just to capitalize
on what she has already said.
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So my training is in linguistics,
so that seems like
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a little bit of a jump
all the way to astrobiology.
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But in essence,
we have to realize that everywhere
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we go, people
are going to have to communicate, right?
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So every field that there is from biology
to business,
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all the way to the other
end of the alphabet -- zoology -- I dont know,
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whatever you want. All of those fields
are going to be necessary in space.
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So having, having linguists and business
majors
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involved in space is an excellent idea
because we need everybody there.
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And speaking of
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needing everybody there,
that's what AstroAccess is all about.
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We don't want to end up
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artificially limiting who can go.
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What we need in space are our best people,
not our best people who happen to fit
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some kind of arbitrary
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rule about what your body is like
and what your senses are like.
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So I met Sheila when she applied to be
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an AstroAccess ambassador,
to fly on one of our zero-G flights.
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It was a wonderful, easy choice
for us to select Sheila to go.
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She is exactly the kind of very alert,
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cheerful
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person with boundless energy
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and a real depth of knowledge.
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And so she was a an easy choice for us
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when we were going to pick
who was going to fly with us.
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So I met Sheila on our last zero-G flight,
and we work together to do
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to do some of the observations
that we did aboard the flight.
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Sheila talked about universal design.
That doesn't just happen.
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You don’t automatically
know how to make a new situation
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accessible, and space
is a very new situation, right?
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We don't automatically know
what we're going to need and how
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to make those accommodations happen.
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So one of the things we do aboard
the zero-G flights is we test out things.
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So we wanted to know, for example,
if you are signing
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in zero gravity,
and one person -- whoo! Goes upside down.
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How does that affect the understandability
of what the other person said?
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So if Sheila is signing
and someone else is completely
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on the other side of the cabin
spinning around or upside down,
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can they still understand one another?
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So it's things like that that we just
don't know.
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So that's
why we need to do the investigations
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and that's why we need people like Sheila
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who are
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ready to go up and experience
zero gravity for fun,
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sure,
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but also for science and to help us
figure out what we need to know.
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So I'm going to sort of
dive into this conversation
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a little bit more, particularly with
Sheila, around your background,
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because I had the pleasure
of getting to know Sheila
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over the last academic year
because Sheila joined my Leading Diversity
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at Wharton’s MBA class that I teach
at the Wharton School.
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This was certainly my first experience
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teaching a student at the Wharton School,
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who is deaf, but certainly my first time
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teaching a student at the Wharton School
who is deaf, who wants to be an astronaut.
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And so I've come to understand
so many interesting things
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about space
that I was not even thinking about,
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just by engaging in communication
with Sheila.
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So before we sort of jump back
into this space parts,
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Sheila. you are
perhaps one of the most fascinating
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MBA students I've come to meet in my time
at the Wharton School
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because of this work
you are doing with space exploration.
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But I know that work started long
before you got to us
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at the Wharton School.
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So can you say a little bit more about
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how you became interested in this topic
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and just shed some light on
how are you continuing to,
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I guess,
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think about your education
relative to this broader interest?
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I mean, you're pursuing both an MBA
and a Master's
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in Public Policy
at two different schools at the same time.
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So, I just would love to know more about
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how you got to be here, where you are
and then what the how these degrees
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are fitting into this amazing future
that I know
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you have in front of you.
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Well, I was born deaf.
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My family is not deaf.
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They're hearing.
My parents were immigrants from China.
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So the first time they ever met
a deaf person was when I was born.
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Now, in China,
they had never met a deaf person prior
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to my being born, so they were overwhelmed
and trying to figure out what to do.
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Ultimately,
they decided to give me a cochlear implant
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when I was three years old.
So that would mean that I really used
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more of the spoken language, what we refer
to as an “oral approach” in school.
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I didn't begin to use sign language until
I was 20 years old, and I was in college.
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I went to MIT for my undergraduate
education.
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I was studying Earth
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atmospheric
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and planetary science.
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And also at the same time,
my father was getting his Ph.D.
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in physics.
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So that was a big impact on my life
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about what it means to be a scientist.
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How do you view the world
from that lens of a scientist?
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So at that time, again, I was at MIT
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and that was my dream
top school that I wanted to attend,
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so I enrolled.
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I decided at that time to begin
my studies of Earth sciences,
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as I just explained,
and it just so happened
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that the Earth Sciences class
overlapped with a lot of space classes.
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I think
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that is where my interest in space began
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because of those classes,
because of my peers
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and the other students in those classes.
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So then in my freshman year
over the summer,
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I went to an internship for NASA,
NASA JPL.
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I was primarily focused
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on science work,
like building and predicting models, --
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those types of things.
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And then I started working
with the Department of Transportation
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in similar areas of developing models
and the greenhouse gases,
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those emissions coming from airplanes.
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So those are my early years where I was
focused primarily on the science work.
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But I did notice something at the time.
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I realized that I just wasn't enjoying
just the physical work of sitting
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like coding like a monkey,
if you will, -- just focusing and typing
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and working so solitary in my office.
It just wasn't for me.
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I wanted to get out.
I wanted to meet people.
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I wanted to be more engaging
with people in general.
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So that happened.
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And then
I received my undergraduate degree,
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which required me to do quite a bit
of writing for my senior thesis.
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And if I could back up for just a moment.
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yes, I explained my major,
but I also had a humanities major, as well,
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at the same time -- science technology.
It was called in “STS” in society.
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So I had to write a senior thesis
for that class as well,
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but that wasn't required
for my other major.
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So I started to give him some thoughts
about my research
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and the paper that I was going to write
and what I wanted to talk about.
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It just so happened that I was
I was Googling late in the evening
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one day. I was reading
quite a lot of things and I came upon deaf
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economics and deaf business owners.
So I clicked on that,
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and I started to look further
at that material,
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and there was a gentleman who had received
a Ph.D. doctorate in deaf business ownership.
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So I read further and I contacted this
person and had a lengthy discussion
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and he told me that there really wasn't
a lot of research in this area.
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It was quite needed.
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This was back in 2012, I believe
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He really
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encouraged me to pursue this research
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and make that part of my senior thesis,
which I adopted.
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So over the next two years,
I began that research of deaf
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business owners here in the United States,
as well as in Europe.
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There was a lot of travel over those two
years, meeting with a lot of people
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and improving my signing skills
at the same time as a result.
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And then, after graduating from MIT,
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I realized that I really didn’t want
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to go into a typical safe job.
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I was looking for something more unique,
something different.
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So I decided I would do a solo backpacking
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trip for one year and a half.
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And at that point, afterwards,
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I decided to move to Italy
because I knew that in Italy --
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this was nothing
related to my science work --
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I just wanted to shift my focus
for a while.
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I had received a reward to research deaf
business owners in Italy, very similar
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to my senior thesis paper, but
I was focused more specifically to Italy.
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And so while I was there,
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I was teaching ASL and deaf culture
in the University of Venice
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at the same time.
I was there for five years.
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And after five years in Italy
and pursuing this work,
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I kind of maxed out in Italy,
just because the limitations of
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access that were provided, which was
basically none for people who are deaf.
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So I began to really think further
about my career
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and what impact did I want to make
when I looked at my own future?
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And that's one of the big reasons
that I decided to apply to this dual
00:16:02
degree program of public policy
and the MBA here at Wharton.
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I have noticed that
policy and business strongly overlap.
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So both of those things will impact us
as deaf people, as well as people
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who are not deaf in many,
many areas of life.
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Policy changes
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have tremendous impacts on all of us
and all of our benefits.
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But in the business area, I was interested
00:16:29
in becoming an investor,
specifically an impact investor.
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I've seen a lot of deaf business owners
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really struggle to raise capital
and to grow their businesses. And counter,
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I see at MIT, my peers there
who are hearing and able bodied
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have such an easier time of finding funds.
There’s a tremendous gap in equality there.
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So I thought, “Well,
let me get this dual degree in policy
00:16:52
and business
in order to pursue my interests.”
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In the future, I would love to work
at the intersection of space,
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policy, and business development
or investing. Technology
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development, as well, possibly --
or technology transferring.
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Of course accessibility
and how that impacts those areas, as well.
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I have been thinking,
I don't think specifically about
00:17:18
a job right
now, but I am looking down into the future
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possible job opportunities
in those areas of my interest
00:17:25
and the work experience
that I can bring to it.
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Thank you for sharing all of that.
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As I said,
00:17:32
you're one of the most fascinating
MBA students that I've met in my time
00:17:35
here, and I wanted our audience
to get a sense of that,
00:17:41
and what better way than to have you share
00:17:44
the deep experiences and broad experiences
that you've had in your background
00:17:49
as a way, I think, for not only helping us
to get to know who you are as a person,
00:17:53
but as we begin to talk about the topic
of disability access in the workplace,
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we're talking about people who have rich
00:18:01
and interesting lives
and want to achieve many of the things
00:18:05
that people who don't have disabilities
want to achieve.
00:18:09
And how can we make these opportunities
more accessible to them?
00:18:14
And I think you gave us
a good understanding that you
00:18:18
and your dreams -- they’re actually
some of them are much bigger than mine,
00:18:21
I will admit that. My dream was not space, but
00:18:26
having dreams and wanting to fulfill them
and making sure that
00:18:29
the same access to these opportunities
is afforded
00:18:33
to all of us, regardless
of what our abilities are.
00:18:38
Sheri,
I can imagine that this conversation
00:18:41
resonates
with you and your own experiences.
00:18:43
You have an equally fascinating
background.
00:18:47
You said it, linguistics and astrobiology
seem far apart
00:18:51
from a lay person's understanding,
meaning mine.
00:18:55
But certainly
I think you have tackled some places
00:18:59
literally where many of us could only dream to go.
00:19:04
So I'm curious to know, when you reflect
00:19:08
on what Sheila shared about her own
background experiences,
00:19:12
what resonated with you
when you think about yours?
00:19:17
Well, so first off,
I mean, let me just say what everyone else
00:19:21
in the room has said already,
that the more I get to know
00:19:24
you, Sheila, the cooler you become.
00:19:25
I mean, my friend, there are
some things in there I didn't know.
00:19:29
So I think the thing that resonated
with me
00:19:34
in particular from Sheila's story,
00:19:36
is how pervasive
00:19:40
and sometimes, very overt
and sometimes very subtle,
00:19:45
the force on disabled people to go home,
sit down, be quiet,
00:19:49
don't make trouble, can be. That constant
pressure to,
00:19:55
“Oh, let me -- just sit
down. I'll fix you a plate.”
00:19:59
And nobody
really wants that in their lives.
00:20:01
What everybody really wants is to be
the person, you know, organizing the plate.
00:20:06
We want to be
the people who are making things happen,
00:20:11
not the passive recipients
of other people's dreams and ingenuity
00:20:16
and love of life.
00:20:20
So I think,
I think from my own experience,
00:20:23
I intended to be a physicist
and astronomer.
00:20:26
That was my goal.
00:20:28
But there's just a lot of very quiet,
00:20:32
strong messages given to disabled people
00:20:37
to not do those things
00:20:39
that seem too audacious.
00:20:43
And if you're going to go do an audacious thing,
00:20:47
you need a certain amount
of internal drive.
00:20:49
But that's not your magic, right?
00:20:51
Everybody has internal drive.
00:20:52
Everybody's got some of that, right?
00:20:54
What you need to succeed is each other.
00:20:57
So in Sheila's work, figuring out
00:21:00
what does business owners need,
one of the things that's pretty clear
00:21:06
from the story she was telling
is that they need each other,
00:21:10
and they need to learn to network.
00:21:12
And as disabled people, we need those
conversations in the hallway, right?
00:21:18
We need those casual
00:21:21
connections between
00:21:22
friends and future friends and business
opportunities.
00:21:26
that can only happen
when people talk to one another.
00:21:29
So I think that
is the way that we overcome,
00:21:34
I think, the forces that tell us
that we're not needed,
00:21:38
and that we are extra,
or that we're too much trouble,
00:21:42
and really, it would just be better
if we just all stayed home.
00:21:46
One of the one of the messages
that I was really quite startled
00:21:52
to hear expressed
quite as openly as it was --
00:21:56
Sheila and I were at a conference together
00:21:59
a couple of months ago,
I guess it was, and we heard people
00:22:03
complaining over and over and over,
“Oh, man, we don't have enough people.
00:22:09
We don't have enough good employees.
What are we going to do?
00:22:12
There's this lack of good employees.”
00:22:14
And the guy actually said, “Well,
I don't know. You all will have to have more
00:22:18
babies. And maybe we need to have robots
do some of this work.”
00:22:22
And Sheila and I and other disabled
people were sitting right in the audience,
00:22:26
and I thought, “Holy smokes, buddy.
00:22:29
Think about this:
00:22:30
A quarter of the people on the planet
have some kind of disability.
00:22:34
So if you look around in your workplace
and a quarter of those folks
00:22:37
don't have disabilities,
that means that you
00:22:42
have structured your workplace
so that disabled people aren't applying there,
00:22:46
or disabled
people can't work there.
00:22:48
And that's where your extra employees are.
There are disabled
00:22:52
people waiting, ready to
00:22:55
to do part of the work, of
00:22:59
getting humanity into space
00:23:02
and following the dreams
that everyone else has at the same time.
00:23:05
I love it. I love it.
00:23:07
Sheila,
00:23:10
so I can imagine that
this resonates with you, as well
00:23:13
because we've talked about these things
quite frequently in our class,
00:23:17
but certainly in our one-on-one conversations.
00:23:21
And so as we begin to think about what
disability access in the workplace
00:23:27
would look like -- specifically, Sheri,
you just gave the example of,
00:23:30
let's just say a quarter,
which is a small number, right?
00:23:33
A quarter of your workforce,
let's say is now
00:23:36
represents people who have various forms
of disabilities.
00:23:41
In order for that workplace
to be accessible to them.
00:23:45
What are the types of things --
other than just giving people jobs,
00:23:49
which is the first barrier,
right? and opportunity.
00:23:52
What are the types of things
that employers should be thinking about?
00:23:56
And I want to now relate that to perhaps
00:24:01
what you learned through this space
exploration experience with AstroAccess.
00:24:06
Were there lessons learned about
00:24:08
-- what you needed to have in order
to be successful in space
00:24:13
that we can transfer
to thinking more broadly about what anyone,
00:24:18
or people who are disabled
might need in the workplace to
00:24:21
be successful.
00:24:29
Well,
00:24:31
Yes, you're absolutely right.
00:24:33
That big impact is the hiring process.
00:24:35
And behind
that are people's attitudes and policy.
00:24:39
So first of all, we need to be aware of
that, because when we're looking at space,
00:24:44
the space agencies on the government side,
in the government
00:24:48
sector, are not allowing people
with disabilities to become astronauts.
00:24:52
And that's simply because of their system
that they have created,
00:24:56
looking for people who,
if you will, have the “right stuff.”
00:25:00
They're talking about people
who are young and healthy,
00:25:03
able bodied.
00:25:08
So if that's the system,
and what the system requires, in addition
00:25:13
of being able to communicate
through a radio transmission --
00:25:16
that's not accessible,
I can’t access that type of system.
00:25:21
I think the better strategy
00:25:23
is looking at changing the system
00:25:26
to meet my needs, as opposed to a system
00:25:29
that only allows for a very specific type
of person to be selected.
00:25:32
So, for example, for myself as a pilot,
I’ve noticed that I very much
00:25:38
prefer to read a text
as a way of communicating.
00:25:42
We already have that technology.
00:25:44
It exists, but
it's just not really broadly out there.
00:25:47
I'm hoping that we will see that
that type of technology is out there
00:25:51
and available to all people,
not just very specific types of pilots.
00:25:55
So all of those ideas,
to borrow that in the space
00:25:58
sector, to be able to create systems
that work for us,
00:26:01
not just as a deaf person
00:26:03
specifically, but for all kinds of people
with a variety of disabilities.
00:26:06
And that's where the concept
of universal design really comes in.
00:26:10
How are we able to step back,
look at systems, products,
00:26:13
and services
that are accessible for all people?
00:26:18
I think
it's very important in its next step
00:26:21
is to look at the problems
being within the systems,
00:26:24
as well as changing attitudes
and creating better policies
00:26:28
that really show a greater commitment
to pushing the ball forward for change.
00:26:34
When we look at leadership
and management, at the top
00:26:38
they also really need to be able
to recognize and disseminate
00:26:42
this type of information
to reach out to people
00:26:45
further down the line
in terms of their employees.
00:26:47
I think you talked about this
in your class previously, how important
00:26:50
it is to really have the commitment
from the top level.
00:26:57
I hope I answered your question.
00:26:59
Yes. Did I miss any part of your question?
00:27:02
No, you didn't.
00:27:03
What we're going to do in just a minute --
00:27:05
and I'll give you a chance
to think about that.
00:27:08
I'm going to move to Sheri.
00:27:10
What are two to three concrete,
00:27:14
practical tips?
Just like you and the students
00:27:17
always hold me accountable to saying,
what are two or three
00:27:21
concrete practical tips
that you would share with employers
00:27:26
who would be listening to this podcast
about how to make
00:27:32
people with disabilities
have better access to the workplaces.
00:27:36
I will also,
because we're talking about space today
00:27:39
and your more recent
experiences have been space-related,
00:27:43
you can certainly target those
00:27:45
to the space industry as well.
But we're going to come back to you.
00:27:49
I'm going to shift to Sheri
00:27:50
for a second, sort of asking you
some of the broader questions.
00:27:54
You've done -- participated in
a number of zero
00:27:58
gravity flight experiences.
00:28:01
You're a leader at this wonderful
organization, AstroAccess,
00:28:05
which is giving not only you and Sheila,
but people
00:28:08
from a variety of abled backgrounds
00:28:12
and disabled backgrounds,
the opportunities to participate
00:28:16
in these experiences
that most people would even dream of,
00:28:21
right? We can only dream
that we would have access to space.
00:28:23
I'm wondering about the lessons
that you were learning,
00:28:27
the implications
of what you were learning for
00:28:30
certainly disability access
00:28:32
to space more broadly,
but also to settings like workplaces.
00:28:37
What have you come to learn and understand
in your work that would give us
00:28:41
some pointers that we can hang onto
as we think about, you know, broadening
00:28:46
the net of who gets to participate in the
things that we have available to us?
00:28:51
That's a good question.
00:28:52
And I think that the tangible suggestions
are a good are a good direction to go.
00:28:58
And so the first thing that we learned,
I think, as a organization is that
00:29:06
all kinds of marvelous disabled
people are out there
00:29:10
and it matters where you recruit, right?
00:29:12
So if we had just said, “Hey,
we need twelve people to go on a zero-G flight,”
00:29:17
and took the first 12 people
who walked in our door,
00:29:20
we would have probably no disabled people
on that flight,
00:29:23
right?.
00:29:23
But what we wanted was to show the power
00:29:29
and really the efficiency, the joy,
00:29:31
the power of what diversity can bring
to something like a zero-G flight.
00:29:36
So we didn't just take the first 12 people
who walked in the door.
00:29:40
We went on a search for exactly
for disabled people.
00:29:44
We were very intentional
about that kind of inclusion
00:29:47
and the people we got were top-notch.
00:29:50
So this idea that as you go
00:29:54
recruiting, you're somehow compromising
is completely wrong.
00:29:57
We got really strong people.
00:29:59
We got Sheila, right.
00:30:01
So it matters where you recruit.
That's one thing.
00:30:04
And then when you're looking around --
00:30:07
and we're we're thinking now
00:30:09
about how to make space stations
accessible, right?
00:30:10
How to advise people
about the design of their space station.
00:30:16
So one of the places we start with
is this: If you're
00:30:19
looking around your work environment
or your home environment,
00:30:22
and you find something
that just is kind of
00:30:25
I dont know, it’s just terrible, it's terrible,
it's inconvenient, it's bothersome,
00:30:29
it's inconvenient
for everyone. It's a problem every day.
00:30:32
You have to do this thing,
00:30:35
Say you’ve got a lousy coffeemaker.
00:30:37
Every day it happens.
You use the coffeemaker.
00:30:40
It's always terrible.
00:30:43
So start with those
things that are bothersome to everybody
00:30:46
and rethink them and redesign them
so that they're accessible.
00:30:50
So get rid of the yucky coffee maker
and get one that
00:30:54
that doesn't have the access problem.
00:30:57
Like our coffeemaker
might have had a touchscreen,
00:30:59
which makes inaccessible
for blind folks to use, right?
00:31:02
That coffee maker was a problem
in the first place,
00:31:05
and so we made everything better
00:31:08
and make our morning workflow
00:31:10
go better by getting rid of something
00:31:13
that was a problem in the first place,
that we just were living with.
00:31:17
And so when we think about
what's already in our way,
00:31:21
getting rid of that thing,
that's a bother and redesigning it
00:31:25
so that it is inclusive, and
then everything gets better for everyone.
00:31:30
And I think the other thing
that we think about, -- I mean, there's a
00:31:33
there's a long list of things
that we're going to do
00:31:36
when we're thinking about outer space,
00:31:38
but the other the other kind of thing
that we look at
00:31:41
to make an environment more accessible
are things that you do every day.
00:31:45
What are the little tiny
things that you do every day?
00:31:48
And if you can make
one of those things better --
00:31:50
because you do it all
the time -- you've made a big step forward.
00:31:54
So I think Sheila's
example of communication
00:31:58
by text messages,
00:32:01
that's a really cool idea, right?
00:32:03
And it's super easy.
00:32:04
It's a fix that we already know how to do.
00:32:07
We communicate with people every day,
and adding in
00:32:13
a text message, which is accessible to deaf
00:32:16
folks and blind folks
00:32:20
again, makes everything easier for
00:32:22
everyone, makes everything more
accessible, for everyone.
00:32:24
And because we do it all the time,
changing that one thing up buys us a lot.
00:32:30
So I think those are the three places
I would start.
00:32:32
Things that you do every day --
rethink those.
00:32:34
How can you make those simple things
better?
00:32:37
Rethink the things that you already know
are driving you nuts.
00:32:39
I already know our problem.
Fix those things,
00:32:42
and then pay attention
to where you go to look for people.
00:32:45
Where are you recruiting?
00:32:46
Absolutely wonderful.
And when I think about leaders
00:32:50
who I talk to from other industries
and people who I’ve had on this podcast
00:32:56
previously, you are saying the same things
that they are saying.
00:33:00
So whether we're talking about
other groups -- women or people who are,
00:33:05
you know, from various racial or
ethnic minority groups, like black people.
00:33:09
Or whether we're talking about people
00:33:11
who are coming
from different socioeconomic classes,
00:33:14
To me, the lessons that you just laid
out, the key takeaways, Sheri,
00:33:18
are the same things that they're asking
for, as well, which leads me to believe
00:33:22
that these are the things that we all want as
00:33:26
citizens, as participants
in any economy and certainly as workers.
00:33:30
How do we ensure to ensure that all of us --
00:33:34
and when we begin to look at our data
and our group,
00:33:39
by our differences -- how do we ensure that
00:33:41
we're all getting these things,
if it's the case that we all want them?
00:33:45
Thank you, Sheri.
Sheila, so turning to you, based on
00:33:49
certainly the experiences that you’ve shared
with us today, your experiences
00:33:52
with AstroAccess,
what key takeaways or calls to action/
00:33:57
concrete tips do you have
00:34:00
for our audience?
00:34:05
Well, first, I would say
00:34:11
if you are committed to accessibility
00:34:13
and inclusion, that's very important.
00:34:17
Put your money where your mouth is.
00:34:20
So if you have a private space company
00:34:25
and you have built this space company
and just like we were talking about this
00:34:30
a moment ago about the space station,
Sheri was just sharing,
00:34:33
if you want to make that more accessible,
have more inclusive design, then
00:34:37
you need to have the financial investment
to make that happen.
00:34:40
Not just the space station,
but so many things.
00:34:43
The hiring process. Adding a line
00:34:46
there, a line item for your budget,
for example, in your hiring process.
00:34:50
I, for example, would need a sign language
interpreter for communication.
00:34:54
And all companies need to add that
accessibility line item in their budget,
00:34:59
as opposed to saying “So sorry,
we don't have that in our budget.”
00:35:04
if you say that that means you're
not really valuing me,
00:35:06
my thoughts, what I can bring to the table
if you can't communicate with me.
00:35:11
So I think that's really important
to have the money behind whatever it is,
00:35:14
whatever impact you're talking about,
to make your company inclusive.
00:35:19
Number two, I'd say, policy changes.
00:35:21
Policy changes are critical.
00:35:24
When it comes to policy
00:35:27
that establishes the rules.
00:35:28
We have laws, of course, but when it comes
to the rules, the social norms,
00:35:34
both formal and informal --
00:35:40
both of these environments and societies.
00:35:44
Number three, I would say from what I see
00:35:47
looking at the government sector,
you know, they're very risk averse.
00:35:51
They still really don't want to accept
astronauts with disabilities.
00:35:54
But if you look at the private sector,
that's where we see growth.
00:35:58
That's where we see
people willing to assume risk.
00:36:01
We need to look to the private sector.
00:36:04
Many, however, do contract with the government
00:36:07
and are looking for government monies,
where they will then assume the risks.
00:36:12
So I do believe that's a great opportunity
00:36:14
for all of us
to look to the private sector
00:36:17
where we really are able
to find the monies, where contracts
00:36:21
exist with the government for accessibility
specifically into space.
00:36:29
So I would say if you're interested
in really supporting our work,
00:36:34
in supporting AstroAccess, then
please feel free to contact any one of us.
00:36:39
We have plenty of ideas.
We’re ready to speak with you
00:36:42
at any time and looking forward
to those conversations.
00:36:45
Thank you, Sheila.
00:36:46
I really appreciate you being here today.
00:36:50
I also want to say Sheri and Sheila,
I think it is so important
00:36:56
that you are willing to participate
in these types of engagements and podcast
00:37:01
and you’re showing up to conferences.
Because I think the more that your presence is felt
00:37:07
and the more that your thoughts are shared
and the more that people begin
00:37:11
to understand your backgrounds, the less
00:37:14
I would say puzzling
00:37:17
it feels for people to include you
in what they are already doing.
00:37:21
So thank you for joining my platform
and engagement today
00:37:26
and helping people to understand
how you include someone who is blind
00:37:30
and someone who is deaf
in the same podcast episode?
00:37:34
I think this will go a long way
towards inviting other people
00:37:38
who run podcasts to consider broadening
the base of guests that they include
00:37:44
as part of these
really important platforms, as well.
00:37:48
Because, as you know, podcasts have become a thing
00:37:52
for every topic imaginable under the sun.
00:37:55
And so I think the more that we can --
as people who host these things --
00:38:01
diversify who we are including
and also make sure that people
00:38:04
who access the platform
00:38:07
or who communicate in various ways,
who sign,
00:38:12
are included, I think we will be putting
our money where our mouth is, as well.
00:38:17
So thanks to both of you,
Sheila and Sheri, for joining me today.
00:38:21
Thank you for sharing your insights
and your expertise with us.
00:38:25
I truly,
truly appreciate you for being here.
00:38:29
So thank you to the audience
for being here
00:38:32
and for listening to this episode
or watching this episode
00:38:36
of the Knowledge at Wharton
Leading Diversity at Work Podcast series.
00:38:39
I look forward to sharing more
with you again in the future.
00:38:44
For more from Knowledge at Wharton, please
visit
00:38:47
knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu
