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Our Guest today is Dana Perino and she
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is the former White House Press
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Secretary for George Bush and she now
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serves as the co-host of the Fox News TV
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show the five welcome and thanks for
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coming to I'm hon to be here thank you
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um you are a frequent speaker on
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political Trends obviously and you're
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active in global maternal health and
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Child Development and a couple of other
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Charities I just wanted to mention that
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one thought was interesting was the
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American veterans uh companions for
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Heroes which is matching rescue animals
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with f suffering from uh PTSD so that's
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an interesting one yeah that actually
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came through um as with a lot of PE
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Charities that people end up working for
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there's some sort of a personal
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connection or a reason something that
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grabbed your heart and the maternal
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health and Global um childhood
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development work was really something I
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learned from George W bush and Laura
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Bush and with their efforts in Africa
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and I got to travel with them there and
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so that stuck with me and then after I
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left the White House I met well I'm a
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big dog person anyway always have been
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and then I met a young man who um had
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served in our Armed Forces uh in on the
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Intel side though and he had been
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deployed right after 911 and had a
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pretty um traumatic experience happened
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to him where he wasn't injured but
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psychologically was put into a lot of
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fear and so he suffered from
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post-traumatic stress and when he came
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back to America he uh was fairly
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unpredictable in his moods this is this
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is one of the symptoms and his friends
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got to the point where they didn't want
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to be with him at the bars they thought
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he was almost to the point of violent uh
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and one of them suggested you should get
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a rescue dog and he said that's
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ridiculous why I don't need a dog but
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they took him anyway and it got a little
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dog named Cheyenne and I watched this
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young man's life absolutely be
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transformed and then he subsequently
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started companions for Heroes so they
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match up rescue dogs with people that
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have post-traumatic stress not just from
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the wars but also um and something new
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to me I didn't realize that firemen also
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uh go through things uh those similar
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feelings after traumatic experiences
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that they witness so they help everybody
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and I think it's a really good way to
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bring those two forces together what a
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great group uh getting to your book now
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uh so it's a personal account I think
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it's a personal account of your life in
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your private life a little bit your
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professional life and it's also kind of
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advice and Lessons Learned kind a book
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what are some of the key themes well I
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never thought I would write a memoir at
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age 40 when it came out or when I was
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writing it um but I did have this unique
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place in history I was the first
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Republican woman to be a White House
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Press Secretary I served during those
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turbulent years uh with George W bush I
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was in the White House well in the
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administration for over seven years so I
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saw a lot a lot of it was behind the
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scenes and there were two things that I
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wanted to do with this book first was to
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try to close fill in a gap that I
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thought existed in the coverage of the
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Bush presidency because there were many
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historians or columnists journalists
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that had rehashed the policies and the
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politics of the administration but there
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was no one really that had tapped into
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the personal what was he like behind the
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scenes you know when the cameras weren't
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on and I got to witness so much of that
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and there were very few people who could
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have written those stories so what I
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tried to do was to peel back the curtain
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of what it was like to be there um and
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tell just real firsthand accounts the
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other thing I did is because I'd had
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these great opportunities as a young
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woman I would be asked all the time how
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did you get to be White House Press
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Secretary and young people really want
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you to give them a road map and they
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will follow it to the tea if you tell
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them these are the eight steps you have
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to take to be successful they will do
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all eight very earnestly but it's kind
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of hard for you right because a lot of
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the opportunities came very unexpected
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yes almost all of them and I I I called
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the book and the good news is partly
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because I'm a planner and a firstborn
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daughter so I always wanted to have
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everything planned out and I worry a lot
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and the truth is I if if I look back all
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the good things that happened in my life
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happened at times that I wasn't
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expecting it and that I didn't have it
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planned so that's a hard plan to say
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don't worry about it things will come to
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you but I'm sure you're not saying that
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you need to be prepared you need to
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recognize the opportunities but why
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don't you talk a little bit about that
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um in chapter five uh of the book I
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spend I I break out all of the best
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advice I have into three basic
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categories things you can do at the
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school or the office today to make your
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likelihood of success more um more
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promising the second thing is over a
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career and the third thing is over a
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lifetime um one of the things I do
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always ask young women and men too I try
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to strip out the gender specific advice
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from this book but I I've noticed that
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mostly it's young women it is appeal to
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it um and it's that don't don't worry
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your Young Life Away you're going to
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work for the rest of your life um
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Millennials are a very interesting
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generation for a lot of reasons they're
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deal I think they're absolutely adorable
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but they have some some significant
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challenges and their life and their
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careers are kind of delayed by about 10
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years partly because of the recession
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also because of technology and also just
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because of the way that they approach
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things so um I talk a lot about voice I
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would say that's my most important piece
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of advice in the book about finding your
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strong voice yes you've probably heard
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it around campus or in your own life if
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you have daughters or nieces this
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tendency to speak at the end of the
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sentence Valley Girl speak kind of like
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valley girl but yes it's um it's called
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upt talking now and it's a popular thing
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to do because if your friends are
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talking like that you sound like that I
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think there's another reason that they
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do it it's because if you are giving
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your opinion in the form of a question
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you don't have to take owner ownership
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of it you're just raising questions and
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I am convinced that a lot of young
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people and this includes men who are
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starting to talk like this as well that
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you are uh Limited in your advancement
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in your career you are not put forward
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for promotion you are not taken on the
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trip to meet the client because your
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boss doesn't feel like you're mature
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enough to be able to do that and it is
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an easy fix for young people it really
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is you can break them out the Habit in a
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day well it was interesting because you
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had a lot of uh broad strr ideas but
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then you had some very specific things
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like that like don't wear UGG boots I
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think to the office but but another one
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was take take the blame for your team
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absolutely tell me about that one well
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I'd give one of these examples about um
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you know
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everybody at some point you're going to
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have to be willing to take a punch for
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your team um and if your employees or
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your teammates will see that you're
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willing to do that they're more likely
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to be loyal to you and your team is more
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likely to function better uh one example
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is from uh in 2000 when George W Bush
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was running for a president he's in the
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primary process he gets to New Hampshire
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one Iowa easily guess in New Hampshire
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and his team they were pretty confident
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and he lost big time to John McCain and
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it was embarrassing and it meant that
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they had to have a scramble to South
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Carolina to try to win South Carolina
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and instead of being mad um George Bush
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gathered his whole team around looked
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everybody in the eye and he said this
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was my fault
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no one to hear should feel like they
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have to take the blame and what he said
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that he wanted to do in that moment is
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to say I understand that I've got a role
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to play in this problem but if I take
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all the responsibility that means that
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you all won't have to have any sort of
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sniping against each other as we try to
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go forward and win the next contest and
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it worked and It ultimately ended up
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being
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successful well now that you've brought
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up the primaries I want to ask you a
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little bit about uh your sixth chapter
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is called civility lost and found and of
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course the book was written before the
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current primary season um and um if
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anything there's even less civility in
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fact is there any civility I might ask
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you but what do you think about what you
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see in this Republican primary because I
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think the Democratic primary this time
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around is is not anything to compare to
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that not yet um and it probably won't be
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yes I think there's no doubt that um
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there is civil in civility has existed
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in politics for a long time um I used to
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get criticized when I was press
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secretary for not being Tough Enough
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against the media that was harsh on
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President Bush but I also was following
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his lead and also being true to myself
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it's one of the reasons I could never
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run for office like if it's going to if
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running for office means that you have
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to treat people the way that these
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candidates have been treating each other
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then I'll will never run uh and be
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successful I don't have desire to run
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anyway but one of the things I conclude
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in my book was that having worked in
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politics and then now in cable news that
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I don't have to own anybody's comments
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but my own so every time I open my mouth
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I have a choice to make and believe me I
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can be snarky and sarcastic and I can
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deliver a line that is like the atomic
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elbow but I don't do it in public for a
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reason because one I couldn't live with
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myself if I did I tell one story in the
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book about how in the White House Press
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briefing room one time there was a
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reporter from The New York Times and she
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wasn't paying attention to the rest of
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the briefing and the questions she asked
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had already been asked and answered
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several times and I was irritable
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because I hardly ate anything during the
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whole white house and I was frustrated
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and I took a shot at her on
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International live television and I have
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felt bad about it ever since and I
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called her right away and apologized and
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she was very gracious and said oh I
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didn't even notice um but I know how I
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feel when I say something that is with a
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with a sharp tongue against someone else
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that bothers me the other thing I did in
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the book was to show that I had this
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great experience in Washington DC and I
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don't think I'm alone in having good
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experiences and my experien weren't only
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good because I knew Republicans I had a
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lot of friends from both sides of the
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aisle Donna Brazil was the campaign
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manager for Al Gore she's one of my best
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friends and we get along great so I tell
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stories about how I met President Obama
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when he was Senator from uh Illinois in
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February of 2005 I was the new Deputy
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press secretary and we ended up at a
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dinner together across the table from
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each other and we laughed our butts off
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for hours and 3 years later I didn't
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expect him to remember me but he's at
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the White House now I'm the press
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secretary he's the candidate and I went
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to introduce myself and he says Dana
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Perino that was my favorite night in all
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of
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Washington so I tell that story because
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I want people to know that just because
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you might disagree with somebody on a
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policy position doesn't mean you can't
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enjoy their company and enjoy each other
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as Americans and human beings but now we
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have not just the Republicans and
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Democrats in armed camps but we have the
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Republicans in armed camps against each
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other what do you think about this
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splintering of the Republican party
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that's going on in real time in these
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debates um and uh for a party that has
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always valued loyalty so much I mean the
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Democrats always had I I think a little
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bit more arguing going on publicly U
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than the Republicans did maybe they did
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it more in private but what do you think
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about what you see today with all of all
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the all of the uh I mean back and forth
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I mean we're we're down to just a three
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candidates now but it's been it's it's
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not been comfortable brutal and I've
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covered it every single day um because
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of of the show and also because I'm
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interested um I I believe this from a
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broad brush standpoint that parties
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evolve uh and if they fail to evolve and
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adapt they can Splinter and parties
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don't last forever and we might be
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witnessing the destruction of the
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Republican part party at least as I have
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always known the Republican party I'm 40
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I'll be 44 in a month my grandfather was
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the county commissioner in Western
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County Newcastle Wyoming I mean I've
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been a republican All My Life um but am
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I I'm not devastated that the Republican
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Party might disappear as the as I knew
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it because I believe that conservative
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principles just like Progressive
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principles or liberal principles they
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will exist whether the parties are
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intact um I do think that there is quite
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a bit of fighting within the Democratic
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party as well but the Republicans one
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it's so grossly
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entertaining I might I think if that's
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the way to put it that you can't tear
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your eyes away uh from
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it I think that we could be seeing the
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wholesale destruction of the Republican
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party as I've always known it that's not
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entirely a terrible thing I think there
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are changes especially with another
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person you're going to be talking to you
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know Alec Ross with his book the
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industries of the future you know
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policies and politics has to keep up
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with the techn technological innovations
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of our time uh or else it's not just a
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few people that will feel left behind it
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will be entire classes of people and so
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we have a lot of work to do in in
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dealing with our debt and our government
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our tax system our regulatory structure
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the education system immigration trade
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international pressures that we feel
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from threats from people who want to
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harm us there's a lot more important to
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deal with than the latest of who said
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what on the campaign Trail but the who
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said what on the campaign Trail is so
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entertaining that that's what people
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have focused on so what's likely to
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happen with this election is there going
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to be a contested convention will there
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be a third- Party candidate if they push
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Trump out there's it it seems he's more
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or less hinted if not come out directly
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to say that he would run as a third
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party candidate if he gets the
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nomination there's a lot of talk behind
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the scenes that someone else might run
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be another third party another lots of
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names are surfaced Paul Ryan being one
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there's others I don't think that's real
00:14:04
I don't think that rumors about Paul
00:14:05
Ryan running for president are real at
00:14:07
all um the likelihood of a contested
00:14:10
convention is probably I'd say 60%
00:14:13
likely at this point just because the
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rules being what they are that you have
00:14:18
to get a majority before the convention
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to be assured the nomination and if you
00:14:21
don't it goes to a vote and everyone's
00:14:24
getting a real education now what that
00:14:26
means when delegates are chosen in
00:14:28
different Ways by different states
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they're bound or Unbound um we have a
00:14:32
situation now in Louisiana where Donald
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Trump handily won the popular vote in
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Louisiana but he lost the delegate count
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and now he wants to sue Louisiana for
00:14:42
that but the rules were the rules so
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it's true the rules are the rules but um
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I often read that that those that have
00:14:50
been voting for Trump will feel th thed
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if they will if he has almost all the
00:14:54
delegates and uh I think it would be
00:14:56
very hard I think that he I think if he
00:14:58
has almost all the delegates and he goes
00:15:00
to the convention even in that first or
00:15:02
second round I still think that he could
00:15:04
become the nominee I don't think that um
00:15:07
there will be that many Unbound
00:15:08
delegates that decide to not vote for
00:15:10
him unless things continue um he's doing
00:15:14
very poorly with certain segments of
00:15:16
Republican voters very conservative
00:15:18
voters and Republican women and he could
00:15:22
make up some of that in a general
00:15:24
election by bringing Democrats over to
00:15:26
vote for him but if you're losing
00:15:29
conservatives and women on the other
00:15:31
side you got to make that up someplace
00:15:32
else and I don't know where he does that
00:15:34
if the Republican party is splintering
00:15:37
breaking up as you suggest it might be
00:15:39
similar to maybe what happened to the
00:15:41
Democrats 50 years ago back in the
00:15:43
mid-60s or so um how long will it take
00:15:46
them I don't know to put Humpty Dumpty
00:15:49
back together and can they win a a
00:15:52
national elections very well uh in that
00:15:55
state of disunity I think it's very hard
00:15:57
for Republicans no matter what to win
00:15:59
nationally anyway um if you looked at so
00:16:03
Hillary Clinton in
00:16:05
2012 the the night that Barack Obama won
00:16:08
she looked at that electoral map and
00:16:11
said that's my starting point okay so
00:16:14
Republicans have to try to figure out a
00:16:16
way to change that map Donald Trump
00:16:19
could absolutely change the electoral
00:16:21
map I don't believe that Ted Cruz could
00:16:24
flip any states that Romney didn't win I
00:16:27
actually don't believe that right he I'm
00:16:28
sure he would argue and tell me that I'm
00:16:30
wrong but I really I don't see how that
00:16:32
is possible now with Donald Trump could
00:16:35
you see uh Massachusetts being in play
00:16:39
yeah for him but Hillary Clinton could
00:16:42
put Arizona in play for the Democrats
00:16:44
same is true for Utah because Utah gave
00:16:47
Trump some of his worst marks ever if
00:16:49
the Republican party in Utah is not
00:16:51
going to be excited and enthusiastic to
00:16:53
come out and vote for Trump in Utah but
00:16:55
the Democrats they might actually have a
00:16:57
chance to win Utah so then the map that
00:17:00
we've known ever since about the year
00:17:02
2000 will look totally different so
00:17:04
nobody really knows what's going to
00:17:06
happen so will you be supporting the
00:17:07
Republican nominee whoever it is uh I
00:17:10
would love to be able to do that but I
00:17:12
don't know and I have a different job
00:17:14
now too um I am not one of these news
00:17:18
analysts or pundits that feels like I
00:17:19
need to advertise who I am for I am not
00:17:22
campaing for anyone if you ask me who I
00:17:24
think should be president I'll go to my
00:17:27
my chapter three George W bush so um
00:17:31
well uh you worked he was your boss you
00:17:35
worked with him in the white house uh
00:17:37
obviously very loyal to him it comes
00:17:39
through loud and clear in the book um
00:17:41
his brother was running in this past
00:17:43
election and Donald Trump was very
00:17:45
disparaging put mildly completely um
00:17:49
even you know spoke of um uh lying us
00:17:52
into the war spoke of knowing about 911
00:17:56
knowing about well I don't did he
00:17:58
actually say that I know I know he felt
00:17:59
that he didn't keep it safe talked about
00:18:02
he said he said that I mean it's it's
00:18:04
beyond uh birtherism into truism at this
00:18:08
point uh impeachment and so forth so I'm
00:18:11
guessing it would be very hard for you
00:18:13
to support someone like that there are
00:18:15
other reasons that it would be hard as
00:18:17
well um for me the um making fun of a
00:18:21
disabled
00:18:22
reporter and then lying about it that
00:18:26
bothered me very much also um I assume
00:18:30
that you're still on great terms with
00:18:32
the Bush family Jeb was running and he
00:18:35
has said that he finds Donald Trump's
00:18:38
views on foreign policy quote unquote
00:18:40
scary so um I mean there these are
00:18:43
that's not I mean that's not a that's
00:18:45
not a Jeb Bush only phenomenon if you
00:18:47
look at the kipc poll the most recent
00:18:49
one where they did the word cloud word
00:18:51
association with Trump or Hillary scary
00:18:54
was the most the the most uh often
00:18:57
repeated word in that poll that's not a
00:19:00
Jeb Bush position that was a majority of
00:19:03
the people from the kipc poll so if
00:19:05
there's a splintering and if there's a
00:19:07
third party run um none of these things
00:19:09
are outrageous to talk about um how will
00:19:13
the party or how will the conservatives
00:19:16
let's say develop a new party what I
00:19:19
don't know how what groups would be
00:19:20
included what would be left out I don't
00:19:22
know would they draw the newest you're
00:19:24
asking me things that we don't we just
00:19:25
don't know there's there's so many
00:19:27
hypotheticals and we could play this
00:19:29
game and trying to figure it out but
00:19:30
it's impossible to say you don't know
00:19:32
what sort of leaders would emerge what
00:19:34
sort of ideas will emerge it's um I I
00:19:37
just think at this point anybody who
00:19:39
says they know what's going to happen is
00:19:41
wrong I also think that a third party
00:19:42
run is highly unlikely it's almost
00:19:45
impossible to get on the ballots at this
00:19:47
point I see just practically that
00:19:49
doesn't seem like it would work besides
00:19:51
uh a third party run on a republican
00:19:54
leaning side would guarantee Hillary
00:19:57
Clinton the win anyway yes so I don't
00:19:59
know what the point would be right okay
00:20:03
um maybe we can end on a bit more of a
00:20:07
an uplifting note um you mentioned in
00:20:10
the book there was uh one of the hotels
00:20:12
you were in someone left a card on your
00:20:14
pillow with a Zen quot oh yeah can you
00:20:16
tell us about that right it was um it
00:20:18
was after I left the White House and I I
00:20:21
think a lot of people believe that my
00:20:23
transition from press secretary into the
00:20:25
pr world into um co-host of one of the
00:20:28
most popular shows on cable news that it
00:20:30
looks very smooth from the outside but
00:20:32
internally it was really I think it was
00:20:34
a lot for me to handle I had worked in
00:20:36
government for so long um I'd worked in
00:20:39
the private sector before as well my
00:20:41
business when I left the White House was
00:20:42
going great but I was overwhelmed and
00:20:45
also I was exhausted from that
00:20:48
experience and even though I was White
00:20:50
House Press Secretary I'm a pretty
00:20:51
non-confrontational person so um
00:20:55
fighting on cable news was something new
00:20:56
to me um and especially because when I
00:20:59
was the press secretary it did not phase
00:21:01
me to talk about George W bush and his
00:21:04
positions um but when I had to give my
00:21:06
own opinions it was different and there
00:21:08
was this little uh pillow card and I
00:21:10
can't remember which hotel it was but it
00:21:12
said something like um uh I have to be
00:21:15
to be tranquil um what's the first word
00:21:18
say little but when you speak um speak
00:21:21
gently from the
00:21:22
heart abstain from vanity be truthful
00:21:26
that is the way yeah and I thought
00:21:29
that captured what I needed to be doing
00:21:32
in my life after I left the White House
00:21:34
and so I took that card and I've had it
00:21:36
with me ever since almost 10 years so
00:21:38
helped helped get you through yeah I
00:21:39
read it every
00:21:40
morning thanks for joining us thank you
00:21:54
[Music]
