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good afternoon I'm sandy hunt managing
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director of the wharton and social
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impact initiative and i'm delighted to
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welcome you to our conversation today
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with cv Bhattacharya CB is the H J's
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offer chair of sustainability ethics at
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the University of Pittsburgh's Katz
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Graduate School of Business and the
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author of the great new book small
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actions big difference
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welcome to Wharton CB thank you for
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having me so you have a rich career in
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this space tell us a little bit about
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how you got interested in this topic
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well I'm actually back at my alma mater
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so my PhD was from Wharton and it was in
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marketing which doesn't have a direct
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link to what I do today but as I was an
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assistant professor back in the day at
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Emory University during that time I met
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a gentleman by the name of Ben Cohen and
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he was the CEO of this company called
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Ben & Jerry's so he was the Ben of Ben &
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Jerry's and he asked me kind of an
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interesting question he said you know we
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do a lot for the environment and we do a
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lot for society can you help me
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understand if what we do for the
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environment and for society does it help
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us sell ice cream and I found that to be
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a fascinating question and this is the
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mid-1990s mind you I found it a
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fascinating question on multiple fronts
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first he was talking about sales and how
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to increase sales and as marketing
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people we are always talking about how
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to increase sales on the other hand he
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was talking about environmental
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attributes and social attributes of a
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product kind of driving sales and nobody
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was looking at that at that point in
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time and so I said ok I don't know the
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answer to this question but I'm gonna
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you know think about it and so that
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really started my transition to the
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field of what we now call corporate
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social responsibility or our CSR and
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that proved to be kind of the turning
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point for my for my career and then one
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thing led to another you know there were
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several articles to be to be written
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several questions to be explored and I
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started down that path and as I was
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searching for my last book leveraging
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corporate responsibility I made an
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interesting observation and the
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observation was that these corporate
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responsibility managers or
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sustainability managers in companies
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companies like P&G General Mills
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Timberland I you know research all these
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companies they were all very smart very
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good people but they were kind of lonely
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and what I mean by that is that they did
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not have a seat at the strategy table of
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the company and to me this truck as as
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odd and not something good for the field
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because in my research I had found that
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it's only when CSR is treated as a
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strategy only then does it benefit the
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firm and benefit society and so on and
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so forth so I started thinking about my
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next book which now comes out as small
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actions big difference means how can we
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you know on board the entire
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organization into this journey of making
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our companies more more sustainable so
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that in short is kind of how I get here
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excellent and before we go into the
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solutions the book outlines let's talk
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about the problem you say this isn't
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working at companies for two reasons one
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is that bosses delegate the task to a
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single unit rather than integrating it
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throughout the entire corporate strategy
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and two is that boards believe
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unsustainable practices can be solved by
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a change in management let's talk about
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how those show up and and and really
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illustrate those problems what does it
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look like in the first case how do you
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how would you know gosh that's that's my
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company we need to change right so there
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is this mistaken conception in the field
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in in large parts of the corporate field
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I would say that sustainability the
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well-being of our planet and its people
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is the next iteration of CSR or
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corporate social responsibility in fact
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I'm going to India next week to speak at
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a conference which is called CSR 3.0
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so it's it's like you know goes higher
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and higher now this is this is wrong
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because sustainability has to do with
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the survival of the company and as such
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it deals with every organizational
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function you know starting from
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procurement where do our materials come
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from to disposal kind of where do our
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products kind of end up and as you can
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imagine every part of the organization
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is touched by the concept and actions
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that have to do with sustainability so
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the lens yeah so that's why I call
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conducting business through the
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sustainability lens so everybody has to
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be on board and just relegating it to
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one unit so that you produce a
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sustainability report in which you just
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kind of note what all you've done as a
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company in insuring yourself as a good
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corporate citizen is necessary but
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nearly not sufficient so when a company
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is doing it right is there someone in
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each division or sector that is sort of
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a part of the sustainability team how do
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you make sure it's not siloed yes that
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that happens first of all oftentimes
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there are no sustainability teams as
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such because sustainability is fully
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integrated into product development in
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you know into into R&D into branding
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into human resource management into
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procurement all of that and any team
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that you will find is we has what's
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called sustainability generalists
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multiple people working in that who may
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not have a very deep knowledge of the
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science of sustainability or whatever
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but who know enough so as to make those
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business decisions with that lens of
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sustainability priority and they're
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making sure that it's just that it's
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always integrated into every business
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decision made from the mailroom to the
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boardroom
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that's that's how it happens in certain
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companies in other companies you're
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absolutely right I mean there will be
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somebody from marketing somebody from HR
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somebody from procurement and they will
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be kind of the ambassadors if you will
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to the overall kind of corporate
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sustainability leadership leadership
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team and then they in turn kind of
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cascade stuff
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through their respective departments so
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I have seen both of those happening so
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that's the first way you see it not
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working and a little bit on the solution
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the second challenge you raise is that
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it's not about a change in management or
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change management it's really about
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changing how a company philosophically
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thinks about sustainability tell me more
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in our field in the corporate world we
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have this belief that change management
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can pretty much fix everything so the
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lean manufacturing and all those change
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management you know quality move
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consulting so and that's the bread and
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butter of consultants so I have seen
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several organizations who will say well
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we can get in a McKinsey or an Accenture
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to kind of you know launch our
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sustainability program it that's all
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very good except sustainability speaks
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to the very philosophy of business and
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to the philosophy of the corporation and
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change management does not do that so
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traditional change management
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initiatives are still focused on how to
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increase profit whereas when it comes to
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sustainability the first thing we're
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saying is that we have to go beyond
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profit to think about purpose what is
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the purpose of the organization and the
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purpose of the organization really is to
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play a role in society and and to be
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helpful towards the environment to serve
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customers so it's a multi-stakeholder
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kind of a concept and as you know the
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Business Roundtable recently came out
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and said that you know we need to go
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beyond profits Larry Fink has been
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writing his letters and so on so it's
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when we think that you know a chain
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management exercise can fix
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sustainability again I think we are kind
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of ignoring some very important
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underpinnings of the concept
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particularly when it comes to kind of
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convincing your employee basis that this
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is something worthwhile kind of engaging
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in rather than kind of being being being
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bystanders so so rather than change in
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management I would just cut out the end
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it was more about kind of thinking that
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change management is gonna be able to
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fix it and that's wrong it won't
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excellent for companies that don't have
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the expertise in-house you're speaking
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to why
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bringing someone in from the outside may
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not be the solution what would your
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advice be if they are looking into to
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bring in insight or some valuable
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perspectives about how to be a more
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sustainable company yeah so I'm not
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saying don't bring someone from the
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outside I mean if you don't know what to
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do you need you need help and there are
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you know commercial consulting
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organizations there are also people like
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myself and others who work in the field
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who might be able to help so that's all
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fine and good but I think what is
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important is for whoever kind of comes
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in to help to understand this concept of
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kind of it's it's just different from
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it's somewhat sustainability is a
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different kind of an animal and and
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let's try to understand kind of you know
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go take a step back and see why business
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exists in the first place and why is it
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important that's really important
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because if we don't ask that question
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why do we do what we do as an energy
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company I mean my job literally is not
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to sell electricity but it is to keep
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people comfortably warm or cold or help
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them do whatever they want to do with
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electricity and that's a huge mindset
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shift and when you when you define your
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purpose any company they will always
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find that sustainability kind of is
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inherently built-in into that definition
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and so anyone who comes in to help you
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out help any company out as long as they
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have the right kind of perspective on
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what sustainability entails and what it
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would take to change an organization to
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transition its business model to be more
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sustainable I think you're fine
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excellent let's get into the solutions
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because I bet viewers are watching this
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and saying gosh this seems like a hard
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nut to crack so your book outlines three
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steps can you summarize them for us sure
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yeah so the three steps are incubate
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we're by and large it's the leadership
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team and who gets together to define
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that all-important purpose that I talked
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about what's the company's purpose and
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then they come up with
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of concrete goals so the issues that are
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material for their company because a
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cement company could be very different
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from kind of a a consulting company or a
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financial services company or what have
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you
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everybody doesn't have to solve all the
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problems in the world so the second
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phase is launch and that's when we kind
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of unfold that program for the employee
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base of the company and potentially
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other stakeholders as well like you know
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community members supply chain members
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even customers and so on and the third
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phase is called entrench where you
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undertake a set of practices that makes
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acting sustainably are doing business so
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that lens of sustainable sustainability
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kind of like second nature you know and
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and there we talk about kind of you know
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providing feedback on progress you know
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through metrics and KPIs
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we talked about creating this vibrant
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culture of sustainability in the
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organization so that it's kept fresh and
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it doesn't become another flavor of the
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month and then I talked about expanding
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your sense of kind of ownership so that
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it's not just about me anymore my
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company but it's about the planet and
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that's where we see traditional
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competitors collaborating you know to
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solve what I call the tragedy of the
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Commons problems like kind of
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deforestation or we eat waste
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that no one company can solve by itself
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so those incubate launch and entrench
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are the three steps of my model
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excellent let's dig in a little bit on
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the incubation step you're setting that
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mission that purpose is that unique for
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each company or do you see companies
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within a particular sector all sort of
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having the same mission and purpose I'm
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asking as I think about leaders who are
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going to watch this interview read your
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book by and read your book and then sit
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down at the right board and say how do I
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know I've landed at the the real purpose
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statement or mission statement of this
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company right so it's a two-fold answer
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to that any purpose I believe would have
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to have some kind of a normative
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component so I'm not just doing or
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defining the purpose of the four
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so that it resonates with my
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stakeholders it also has to be is this
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really what we are trying to trying to
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accomplish or or or not what comes from
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our hearts and minds as leaders and and
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a leadership team and then I can check
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to see is this something that that gets
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buy-in from my employees first and
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foremost but out of all the stakeholder
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groups that I have if it does if
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employees seem to understand that this
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is what we are trying to do it should be
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reasonably easy to communicate otherwise
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purpose gets gets very very can get lost
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and then you know it's defeated but if
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it if it is something that's true to who
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you are as a company and this is what
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you're really trying to do and you know
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it it has buy-in your employees say yes
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I mean this is this is a good goal for
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us you know this is this is indeed why
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we exist as a company then then I think
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you're you're alright and every company
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does not have to even within the same
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industry every company does not have to
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have the same exact same purpose I mean
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so the purpose of all car companies
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might be to provide mobility which is in
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fact the basic purpose the reason I
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think that they're trying to do this but
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that does not mean that somebody cannot
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add comfort to it or somebody else
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cannot add you know speed or the
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experience or you know or a rush or
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whatever you call it so there are
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definitely ways to kind of you know
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change your purpose to to give it a
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certain uniqueness relative to others
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you talked about checking it with your
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employees as the first stakeholder group
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what does that process look like so you
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come up with a purpose statement and you
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want to see if it resonates with your
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employees that's a way to test if it's
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the right statement for your company
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what do you do you can do a town hall
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meeting you know so we're you it's an
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open forum where employees come and you
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know you can just have a Q&A session
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I've seen CEOs lead this kind of a
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process and it can be quite energizing
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for for the employees employees can
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provide feedback it can also be done
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kind of
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the departmental kind of level so if the
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CEO and his or her leadership team have
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defined the purpose they can you know
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you have these different ambassadors who
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can go out to their respective kind of
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reports and can find out what what what
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people are thinking about it
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the main thing is that it has to have
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buy-in both externally and internally
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and by gauging the energy or the
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resonance with what you're talking about
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kind of you know that's the surest way
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to know if you if you're on the right
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path or not so that one's a little R in
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a little science or a lot of it is a
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little art a little science excellent so
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let's go into the second step where
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you're making your goals more concrete
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sort of how I you know took that away
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when it comes to social impact issues
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sometimes you have blurry edges we'll go
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back to your car example you know it's
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to get people places is it to get them
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there safely is it to do it with the
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smallest you know environmental
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footprint is it to do so building
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community is it to do so safely for
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children pets so on and so on how do you
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know how do companies draw the right
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line around those sort of specific
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dimensions of impact so that they aren't
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trying to boil the ocean and target 100
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impact dimensions because it can get
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really tricky to know when to say when
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sure that's a great question so what
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companies typically do is something
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called a materiality analysis which in
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very simple terms is kind of what do our
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stakeholders think are the most
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important issues kind of facing the
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company and what do our managers think
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are the most important issues facing the
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company and so stakeholders rate all
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these different issues that you talked
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about kind of you know I've participated
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as a stakeholder in several companies
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surveys in terms of their materiality
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surveys and and B just from our
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knowledge of the industry from the
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knowledge of the company we say ok I
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know these kinds of things are really
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important and then the company you know
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chooses a set of employees as well too
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to rate the same universe of issues in
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terms of how important is it for the
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company and then the the materiality
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matrix is simply kind of you know
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plotting those on a two-dimensional
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access kind of you know and so the
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importance according to the employees
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and the importance according to the
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stakeholders and then we choose
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typically the company will choose those
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issues which are deemed important not
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only by the company itself but also by
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the marketplace of of stakeholders and
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more than three or four issues can make
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it or seven let's say in the case of
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Unilever it can you know it can get very
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very complicated now the question is why
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is this step important you don't want to
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boil the ocean because if you if you
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don't focus on anything this is a quote
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in my book if you don't focus on
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something then nothing gets done so you
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know you got to prioritize you've got a
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pick I mean let's talk of carbon carbon
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is extremely important for let's say
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Lafarge wholesome this large cement the
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largest cement produce in the world but
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it is much less important for let's say
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a company like ing financial services
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you know for whom something like
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cybersecurity may be much more important
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so it's - materiality is one way that we
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can boil down and distill our our goals
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and and into into concrete bite-sized
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kind of chunks and it's easier to
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disseminate this goals and the
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priorities to kind of the employee base
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and to the stakeholder base I mean I
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mean think of companies like La Farge or
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Unilever are IBM they have hundreds of
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thousands of employees and you know to
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get into their heads kind of okay these
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are the three things that are important
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that makes progress much much easier
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down the road absolutely especially to
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consumers I'm imagining the effort it
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takes for companies to say this is what
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we care about you want to keep that list
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yeah mm-hmm not not limitless so then as
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we go to the end you and to the third
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step you talked a lot about employee
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ownership really getting this to be
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something that every single employee at
00:19:58
the company sees as a part of their job
00:20:00
as a priority of theirs
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you talk about the heart and the head
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both being necessary can you tell us a
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little bit more about that yeah so so
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ownership is really kind of the
00:20:11
centerpiece I think of this whole thing
00:20:13
I mean there are companies who are
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giving directives to their to their
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employees kind of okay we need to be
00:20:20
more sustainable we need to do this we
00:20:22
need to do that but what's happening
00:20:25
if you do not go through this process of
00:20:27
instilling the sense of ownership then
00:20:29
it becomes like you know going to the
00:20:32
gym because I have to go to the gym and
00:20:34
and my heart is not in in this thing
00:20:37
what ownership does and psychology this
00:20:39
is a psychological ownership you're not
00:20:41
owning something physical but what
00:20:44
ownership does it makes the individual
00:20:47
employee take responsibility you know
00:20:50
for sustainability regardless of whether
00:20:52
he or she is in the mailroom or whether
00:20:54
he or she is in the boardroom like
00:20:56
everybody can make make a difference and
00:20:59
so to to instill that sense of ownership
00:21:02
I have to make an appeal and I call this
00:21:05
enticing employees to kind of on board
00:21:08
and it's different strokes for different
00:21:10
folks so the right thing to do this is
00:21:14
the right thing to do it's the right
00:21:15
thing to do for our planet it's the
00:21:17
right thing to do for our children we
00:21:20
will be extinct I mean all of these
00:21:22
things are are going you know people are
00:21:24
reading about in the newspapers so
00:21:25
several employees will resonate with
00:21:28
this right thing to do kind of argument
00:21:30
the other argument is well this is not
00:21:33
only the right thing to do but it's also
00:21:34
the smart thing to do because this look
00:21:37
this is saving you money so I spoke to
00:21:40
Lisa Jackson who's the top
00:21:43
sustainability person at Apple and she
00:21:46
said that the most fun part or one of
00:21:47
the most fun parts of her job is to
00:21:49
actually go into businesses and say you
00:21:51
know look this is going to not only
00:21:53
going to save you
00:21:55
the amount of metals in you use in these
00:21:58
products but it's also saving you money
00:22:00
at the same time but it's a nicer saving
00:22:02
because it's also helping the planet so
00:22:04
the head and the heart kind of work in
00:22:07
tandem you know and therefore you know
00:22:10
companies oftentimes will use one or the
00:22:15
other but
00:22:16
very often a mix above yeah let's talk a
00:22:18
little bit about that you said
00:22:19
sustainable investment takes time to pay
00:22:21
off you will have to spend money to get
00:22:23
your house in order but once the returns
00:22:25
start coming in then there's no conflict
00:22:26
between the sustainability and the
00:22:28
profitability let's talk a little bit
00:22:30
about that timeline because I think this
00:22:32
is a concept most everyone can get
00:22:34
excited about but often what comes into
00:22:36
play is how much do I need to invest and
00:22:38
when will I see those returns returns in
00:22:40
terms of profits returns in terms of
00:22:42
employee engagement and environmental
00:22:45
impact can you talk about what you've
00:22:47
learned about those timelines sure
00:22:50
another great question
00:22:54
there is not I would start by saying
00:22:56
that there is not kind of one timeline
00:22:59
and it depends on the kinds of
00:23:00
initiatives you undertake in almost
00:23:03
every organization I've studied it seems
00:23:06
like there there's low-hanging fruit and
00:23:09
the low-hanging fruit really does not
00:23:12
take long to to fix
00:23:15
unless you're overly bureaucratic and
00:23:17
the low-hanging fruit oftentimes is as
00:23:19
well kind of you know things that have
00:23:23
high symbolic value high signaling value
00:23:27
even if they are not the one that's kind
00:23:30
of the the most intense sustainability
00:23:33
activity that you could undertake what
00:23:34
would an example there so an example of
00:23:36
low-hanging fruit would be to basically
00:23:38
say kind of this is this is a plastic
00:23:42
freeze you know a single plastic use
00:23:45
free zone in our office we do not bring
00:23:47
single plastic use bottles you know if
00:23:50
we each have our respective coffee cups
00:23:52
or mugs and water water bottles and so
00:23:54
on and so forth and that's not that
00:23:58
difficult to do but it has a tremendous
00:24:01
impact on just the employees kind of you
00:24:05
know light bulbs going off hey I mean
00:24:09
you know my company is taking this
00:24:10
seriously I mean you know so no more
00:24:12
companies go to the next step and say we
00:24:14
will not have individual waste paper
00:24:16
baskets in every office you know you
00:24:17
will need to go to the common area and
00:24:20
segregate your wastes into you know
00:24:22
what's recyclable what's compostable etc
00:24:24
etc and you know what not having your
00:24:27
own waste paper basket actually
00:24:29
makes you produce less waste really
00:24:31
bitter on because a huge behavior driver
00:24:35
that's that's that's absolutely correct
00:24:37
so these initiatives can can literally
00:24:41
be done kind of you know in that three
00:24:43
to six months time visibility quick wins
00:24:49
now then though you know if you want to
00:24:53
change your entire procurement system
00:24:55
you want to like install audits at your
00:24:59
suppliers which you should be doing
00:25:01
those take a little bit longer to kind
00:25:04
of pay off you want to build a factory
00:25:06
which is going to be completely
00:25:08
modernistic and and up to code and so on
00:25:11
that's those those take a little bit
00:25:13
longer to pay off but it's a journey and
00:25:15
the most important thing is to get
00:25:17
started you've got to get started with
00:25:20
something that's noticeable and kind of
00:25:23
you know becomes the cooler top you know
00:25:25
so people congregate around the water
00:25:27
cooler and actually start chatting about
00:25:28
it but their reusable water bottle you
00:25:33
know there's the a lot of snowball
00:25:34
philosophies and it sounds like what
00:25:36
you've seen is that when you do get
00:25:38
these processes implemented they begin
00:25:40
to start to snowball have you seen any
00:25:43
cases where companies have had success
00:25:45
jumping right to big things as their
00:25:48
first investment and sort of making a
00:25:51
seismic shift and how they do business
00:25:53
and capturing that transformative energy
00:25:56
simultaneously simultaneously yes so
00:25:59
once company I studied was was Marks and
00:26:02
Spencer for example this large retail
00:26:04
organization across the world and they
00:26:08
took a very deliberate stand by the said
00:26:10
that kind of you know it should not be
00:26:13
that if we are going to open a new
00:26:15
retail store that someone has to decide
00:26:19
individually kind of what kinds of
00:26:21
lights to order and what kinds of
00:26:23
insulation to have said their plan is
00:26:26
called plan a because there is no plan B
00:26:29
so that's what it says on the thing and
00:26:31
and in and it's I spoke to the chief
00:26:34
sustainability officer there and he told
00:26:36
me that you know plan a just happens at
00:26:38
the push of a button I mean you know
00:26:40
it's not that somebody actually has
00:26:42
default it's the default is the default
00:26:44
option so they've tackled some some big
00:26:47
things in the in in in the in in in
00:26:51
those kinds of spaces in the operation
00:26:53
spaces where actually you do save a lot
00:26:56
of energy and you know and save a lot of
00:26:58
emissions and so on but they've also at
00:27:01
the same time kind of worked with their
00:27:05
employees to say look we're a retailer
00:27:08
so if we exist in communities that
00:27:12
community is not gonna be happy or
00:27:16
satisfied to know that our store is kind
00:27:20
of you know has the latest technology
00:27:22
you sustainable technologies kind of
00:27:24
embedded into it the community will
00:27:27
actually want to see some outreach from
00:27:30
the stores to work with them I mean
00:27:33
employ disabled people in there in the
00:27:36
store or kind of you know help out with
00:27:39
with some charitable work or something
00:27:41
so that in a kind of there is that
00:27:42
feeling that you are you are one of us
00:27:45
so that was that's one example I can
00:27:48
give you where they're tackling kind of
00:27:50
multiple things and and at the same at
00:27:52
the same front excellent doing this
00:27:55
right
00:27:56
sounds like a competitive advantage
00:27:57
right you are getting high sort of
00:28:00
customer engagement high employee
00:28:02
engagement saving money are you seeing
00:28:04
companies share what they've learned
00:28:07
about how to be more sustainable or are
00:28:11
they kind of keeping it a secret sauce
00:28:12
because it is a competitive advantage
00:28:14
these technologies and these processes I
00:28:17
mean what I treasure trove of
00:28:19
information but it's also it's a
00:28:21
competitive landscape so what are you
00:28:22
seeing this that's that's also a very
00:28:25
very good question
00:28:27
it's again I mean it's it's a it's it's
00:28:30
a mix what you see out there is a mix I
00:28:32
mean there are companies that firmly
00:28:35
believe that sustainability needs to be
00:28:38
put in the pre-competitive space so you
00:28:41
know that's not something we we fight
00:28:43
about let's fight about who's whose
00:28:45
product does better in the in the
00:28:47
marketplace and so on and so forth but
00:28:49
they will collaborate on on technologies
00:28:52
and they will collaborate on kind
00:28:54
you know difficult problems like
00:28:57
deforestation how to be solved before a
00:28:59
station no one company can go it alone
00:29:01
when it comes to that so that's where
00:29:03
again collaboration is necessary
00:29:06
Unilever for example you know they had a
00:29:09
compressed canned deodorant and they
00:29:11
made the technology open-source NL which
00:29:13
is a very very large Italian electricity
00:29:16
company they have made much of their
00:29:18
technologies kind of also open to to
00:29:22
someone else so it depends on on the
00:29:25
company I know in the chemical industry
00:29:27
as well and if there are collaborations
00:29:29
that we don't see it's behind the scenes
00:29:33
in R&D and so on and so forth all with
00:29:36
the view to kind to make you know a host
00:29:39
of companies sustainable at the same
00:29:41
time conflict murals issue which came up
00:29:45
with this digital devices with the kids
00:29:47
in the Congo or mining these minerals
00:29:49
and they were coming into our phones so
00:29:51
there was this plea to kind of you know
00:29:54
clean up the supply chain a bunch of
00:29:57
organizations like Apple and Samsung and
00:29:59
Nokia they got together to clean up that
00:30:01
supply chain so I think I'm sure
00:30:05
companies do have secrets and they're
00:30:07
keeping some of them to themselves to be
00:30:10
able to play the competitive advantage
00:30:12
game but there's in the in the kind of
00:30:15
higher consciousness of things it's also
00:30:18
emerging that okay I mean you know this
00:30:20
is germane for us also so let's work on
00:30:23
it together
00:30:24
excellent well that's good to hear to
00:30:26
write this book you conducted over 25
00:30:28
interviews with multinational companies
00:30:31
over a hundred over hundred individuals
00:30:39
at those companies and what I thought
00:30:41
was interesting is those individuals
00:30:42
were sort of across the leadership
00:30:44
spectrum so you said mailroom to
00:30:46
boardroom type of thing was there
00:30:49
anything that everyone commented on any
00:30:52
Universal trends no matter the sector
00:30:54
role level yes that this is truly
00:30:59
important and we must be doing something
00:31:01
about this and it's high time and all
00:31:04
that kind of stuff everybody shares that
00:31:05
was there anything that surprised
00:31:07
from those interviews yes of course you
00:31:14
know it's it's it's interesting that
00:31:17
more than the interviews or the content
00:31:20
of the interviews what is surprising is
00:31:23
what you learn about organizations and
00:31:26
and how they operate
00:31:28
so there are organizations where kind of
00:31:32
you know you where they are happy to
00:31:35
have you videotape the interview for
00:31:38
example you know and there are
00:31:40
organizations where you cannot even
00:31:43
audiotape an interview right now that
00:31:46
says something I don't know what it is
00:31:48
but it says that companies operate kind
00:31:51
of companies operate differently there's
00:31:53
a company where the CEO might come
00:31:56
outside to to greet you and and and and
00:32:00
you know kind of sit you down and so on
00:32:02
and there are companies where you might
00:32:03
have to go through three or four levels
00:32:06
of admin assistants and so on to finally
00:32:09
get into the CEOs room so these are
00:32:12
things that you notice and you know
00:32:14
that's that you find kind of surprising
00:32:17
as well one thing I learned is that you
00:32:21
know the real stories really come out
00:32:23
when you move away from the c-suite
00:32:25
which is why I always made sure that I
00:32:29
spoke with some middle managers and
00:32:32
wherever possible I visited factories
00:32:35
and I spoke with the factory workers and
00:32:37
I just went to branch offices and so
00:32:39
just to see kind of is this ownership
00:32:41
concept that I'm proposing this buy into
00:32:44
sustainability wholesale employee
00:32:46
engagement is this real or is this
00:32:48
something that's just kind of you know
00:32:50
in the head office because that happens
00:32:53
that head offices are more but there
00:32:55
there's some very very interesting kind
00:32:58
of variations as you move across
00:33:02
different parts of of a giant of a giant
00:33:05
company well as we come to the end of
00:33:08
the interview if someone doesn't read
00:33:11
your book or doesn't even have time to
00:33:13
finish watching our interview here today
00:33:15
what are in a couple sentences the main
00:33:17
takeaway is that you would like anyone
00:33:20
who you know catches this interview
00:33:23
reads the blogpost about it what are the
00:33:25
couple things you'd really want them to
00:33:26
take away the first thing I would say is
00:33:30
that you know the cost of inaction is
00:33:33
higher than the cost of action I think a
00:33:37
lot of folks don't realize that not
00:33:40
reading the scientific news that is
00:33:44
coming out and the second thing I would
00:33:47
say is that you know you just can always
00:33:52
do something whether you work at a
00:33:55
company whether you are the CEO of a
00:33:57
company whether you aspire to work for a
00:33:59
company all of the even just even
00:34:03
leaving the consumer side aside for now
00:34:06
just thinking about the workforce and
00:34:09
the numbers we have in the workforce if
00:34:12
we can mobilize a significant portion of
00:34:15
that workforce we get something called
00:34:17
the million-man effect which is kind of
00:34:20
you know together we are stronger so I
00:34:22
want to leave everybody with the sense
00:34:24
that you know together we are stronger
00:34:27
and that small actions can make a big
00:34:30
difference and that no no no action is
00:34:33
small enough you know starting from the
00:34:36
mundane off kind of you know putting the
00:34:38
lights out to kind of figuring out
00:34:41
perhaps a way to suck carbon out of the
00:34:44
air or to kind of you know alternative
00:34:47
to plastic packaging or plant-based
00:34:49
burgers or whatever it is whatever is in
00:34:52
your realm of influence you have to do
00:34:56
it being a bystander is not an option
00:35:00
anymore you've got to lean in and be an
00:35:02
owner yeah well that could I don't think
00:35:04
would be a better way to end that call
00:35:07
to action for all of our viewers and
00:35:09
listeners that being a bystander is not
00:35:11
an option CB bhattacharya thank you for
00:35:13
not being a bystander for putting this
00:35:15
book and your work out into the world
00:35:16
the book is small actions big difference
00:35:19
and it is available now CB thank you for
00:35:21
your time thank you for having me
00:35:25
for more insight from knowledge at
00:35:27
Wharton please visit knowledge Wharton
00:35:30
UPenn edu
00:35:34
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