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hi I'm Laura Hong professor of
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Entrepreneurship at the warten school
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I'm here today with Senator Claire Mill
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who is here to talk to us about her book
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plenty ladylike Claire welcome thank you
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so excited to have you here thank you so
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I really enjoyed reading this book I
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especially love reading Memoirs and this
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was a memoir of course um and I was just
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curious what kind of brought you to
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writing an Memoir what what led up to
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this well my 2012 reelection really had
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a national profile because my opponent
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was um the lame brain who said that the
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woman's body has a way of shutting
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itself down if it's a legitimate rape so
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the race got a lot of attention and I
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had engaged in some really
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high-risk uh strategy in that race that
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I think represents what more women
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should do in their careers and that is
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take risks so I wanted to write the book
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about that campaign
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and the strategy I embraced and then
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once I got into it the publisher said
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well your whole career has been full of
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owning your ambition and being risky so
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why don't we tell more stories than just
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the campaign so it's really for young
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women it's for women um who are
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uncomfortable saying they're ambitious
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it's for women who um feel that security
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is more important than getting ahead um
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it's for women who are facing that
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moment where they don't know if should
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they should take a risk uh this is
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supposed to be a gentle push to get more
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women to be Risk Takers yeah and I kind
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of loved that that was this theme
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throughout the book was that you're very
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ambitious and you you create this really
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interesting narrative about how you're
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almost Unapologetic about this um but
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also admitting some things in there that
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a lot of people would be very apologetic
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admitting so one of my favorite
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anecdotes is from one of the earlier
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chapters where you talk about how um a
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failure to make a cheerleading squad
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then uh launched you into this campaign
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one of your first campaigns uh so can
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you tell us a little bit about that High
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School campaign that you you underwent
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sure sure I had been a cheerleader since
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junior high I thought it was everything
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I uh didn't make it for my senior year
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in high school and I thought the world
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was over uh and so I began a stealth
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campaign that I've never talked about
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until this book um because what I
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decided was I could be homecoming queen
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so I describe in the book um how I went
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about campaigning for homecoming queen I
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did the math I figured out that the
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homecoming queen every year was the
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girlfriend of the quarterback or the co-
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Captain well there's only a couple of
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those but there's a lot of linen um
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there's a lot of tackles and guards and
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linebackers and and guys in the
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secondary so I began making friends with
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um the people that weren't the
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quarterback and as it turned out it
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worked uh they ended up voting for me
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for homecoming queen and I was of course
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embarrassed and am still kind of
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embarrassed that I did that but I wanted
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to tell the story because I thought it
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was an example of how you can Embrace um
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a strategy and get something done and in
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the process I made a lot of friends I
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wouldn't have made otherwise so it ended
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up being a win-win a lot of those
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linemen are my friends to this day but I
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also figured out how to do the math in a
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political campaign so I love that story
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because I was a cheerleader in high
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school but I was not homecoming queen so
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now I'm thinking hey I could have
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actually done something exactly so the
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that kind of illustrates also that one
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of the themes was that there's ups and
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downs so all through your career these
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there's been these ups these incredibly
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High Highs but also these incredibly low
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lows and you know as you read the book
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there's this Narrative of everything
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seems to build on each other is this
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something that you really thought about
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in terms of your career that there's
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these ups and downs in just navigating
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these waves or is this something more in
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retrospect that you really as you were
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reflecting um pieced together in this
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very cohesive narrative at the time I
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don't think I thought of it as ups and
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downs I was very focused on a goal and I
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was just driving towards that goal and
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every problem I encountered especially
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some of the sexism I encountered early
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in my career when I went to the state
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legislature in my 20s I used that as f f
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um rather
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than confront it perhaps as I should
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have I internalized it and said I'm
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going to show them I'm going to show
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them I will be better than they are I
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will go farther than they're going to go
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I will achieve um what I thought was
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going to be my ultimate accomplishment
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which was governor of Missouri as it
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turned out I lost that race um but
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because I lost that race I went on to
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win the senate seat so I guess looking
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back it is and of course I all my
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personal stuff in there my divorce and
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the problems um with my first marriage
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so it does you know have the ups and
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downs but to me at the time it was just
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me headed towards something I wanted
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very much so let's talk a little bit
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about that fuel right because there's
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also this this uh ambition versus um
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this femininity sort of balance that you
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have within the book as well right um
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you had said at one point in the book I
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managed to achieve a delicate balance of
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being tough
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but with a softer approach right so talk
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to us a little bit about that femininity
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right the you know you said I'm used to
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people approaching me to talk not about
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my job but how I look and that sort of
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thing and how you balance that with your
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ambition well I I think um I I say in
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the book I'm not sure I did it right I I
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and that's one thing I want to stress I
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think there's way too many women who
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write books who have accomplished things
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in their life that do it almost looking
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down like this is how I did all the I
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hey I don't I don't get it right every
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day I didn't get it right in my life
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many times and perhaps when I was
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confronted especially with some of the
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cruel sexism early in my career it would
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have been better for me to be brave
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enough to be more confrontational at the
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time I thought it was going to hurt my
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career so instead I used a sense of
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humor um I became very good at
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self-deprecating humor
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um I became uh very good at laughing
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with my male colleagues uh even though
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sometimes those jokes were at my expense
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I was willing to endure that because I
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thought if I came on too strong it would
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limit my Effectiveness especially in a
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legislative body when how you get along
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with others um is is very important in
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terms of your ability to accomplish the
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goals that you set out to accomplish so
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uh it really was this mix of um spine of
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Steel but a big smile and willing to
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laugh um at sometimes even at jokes that
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hurt and that whole time you really
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stressed being prepared and working hard
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right I noticed a lot throughout the
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book how hard you actually worked um it
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was almost a crash course in politics
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because I didn't understand actually how
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much went into these campaigns and how
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much work went into a lot of the
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investigative things that you had done
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so in terms of preparation right talk to
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us a little bit about how you prepare
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and how you've prepared throughout your
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career and what hard work means to you
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as a woman who both has ambition and
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this femininity side well it's
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interesting I don't know that it's as
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much of a challenge for young women
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today but because there are more women
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there are more women at Warton there are
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more women in law school there are more
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women in med school there are more women
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although still not enough women in
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boardrooms and still not enough women
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that are CEOs uh there are Role Models
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out there when I began in politics when
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I began in the prosecutor's office as a
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trial prosecutor there were really no
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women around to speak of that I could
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see as my role models so it it really
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was um trying to go along to get along
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but I was always sure that if I knew
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more that I could have credibility so
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the fact that I was a prosecutor helped
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counter the fact that I had had a lot of
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long blonde hair the fact that I knew my
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way around a courtroom that I had tried
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a lot of criminal trials when I came to
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Jeff City that gave me credibility that
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women sometimes hadn't had coming to
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Jeff City perhaps replacing their
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husbands who had died or even coming
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from a more traditional female career I
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came with a background that really
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helped me um establish myself as someone
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who is very knowledgeable in CRI law and
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that I think helped very much me kind of
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get over the hump of being taken
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seriously and even roles you had later
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on so there's this famous earmarking
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speech that you gave where Chuck Schumer
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said it was one of the top 10 speeches
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that he had ever heard that was behind
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closed doors can you give us a little
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bit of insight into that speech well I
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you know
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I I I ear marks um you know the short
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definition of ear marks is
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congressionally directed spending the
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longer definition was that PE senators
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and congressmen would go behind closed
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doors and sprinkle fairy dust to decide
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where we were going to spend money and
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it was usually based on how senior you
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were what party you were what committee
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you served on so I was sitting in caucus
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one day and someone was with righteous
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indignation saying how great ear marks
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were and I just had enough I had just
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had enough and I just stood up and said
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hey all you appropriators love them
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because you get most of them and I just
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basically kind of did five minutes of um
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me going off in a passionate way about
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all the flaws of the ear marking system
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and how it wasn't based on Merit and how
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in many ways it represented the worst of
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what Washington does because it's all
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about who you know not the Merit of the
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project and so I um that that was uh a
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time that after that speech um our Cox
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decided to not do ear marks and so there
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it's that's a a great example of you
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really being you being true to yourself
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being really authentic um you said in
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the book I've seen people go to
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Washington and lose their sense of
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purpose and their sense of self right
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and that's very easy to do because
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you're in this uh you're in this field
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that's um you're facing lots of
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constituents you have internal external
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people that you're dealing with so you
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know you mentioned earlier in terms of
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you being yourself but also having to to
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manage your colleagues your the people
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you're dealing with how did you do that
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how are able to to manage this very fine
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sort of balance this well you got to get
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comfortable that everybody's not going
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to like you you know I talk about in the
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book in the last chapter of the disease
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to appease and I think women have a much
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more serious case of the disease to
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appease sometimes than men I think we
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all I mean I I want everyone to like me
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and most people who go into politics
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really want everyone to like them
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because they've chosen a career where
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you put yourself out for public
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acceptance or reject ction every two
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four or six years so it it's hard to get
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used to the fact that people don't like
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you but you can't get anything done if
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you don't make somebody mad it's
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impossible to get anything done without
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angering someone so you've just got to
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get comfortable I mean when I gave that
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speech there were people in my caucus
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that were Furious that like who does she
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think she is and probably some of them
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think that to this day but that's okay
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um you don't have to have everybody like
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you uh obviously you need to take care
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of your family and your good friends and
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try to make friends but it shouldn't be
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a kind of exercise where you're trying
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to please everyone all the time that's
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why people are so sick of Washington
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well why do you think it's so difficult
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for women especially to to be okay with
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that to you know so women really want
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people to like them why do you think
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it's there is this gender difference I
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think we're natural negotiators I I mean
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we have strengths that men don't have I
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think we are more consiliary I mean I in
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speeches to women I like to talk about
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um I give speeches to men sometimes I
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have men raise their hands when have you
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ever had the nerve to punch somebody
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have when have you had the feeling you
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wanted to punch somebody and it's
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surprisingly common among men it's not
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that common among women so there is not
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that
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combativeness um that sometimes I think
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gets in the way with men um I think
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women can be hyper competitive but I
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think there is a desire to kind of
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sugarcoat it and say oh I really want
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you to get it too or you know I want you
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to be my friend and oh I want us to get
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along instead of powering through a
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situation and trying to just get
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something done even if it means um
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stepping on toes so let's talk a little
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bit about that women supporting other
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women versus women not wanting to
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support other women because they want to
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um you know still be in that finite
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population you told a story in the book
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about um you were a young uh state
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representative and you wore a leather
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skirt into an event um and somebody had
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asked uh at the party who is that person
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um and they told they said that's a
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state representative and they said well
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who is the that she's with that
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he's with that he's with um and you know
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in that kind of illustrates that some
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women and that was a woman who was
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asking this this question so some women
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are very that want to be mentors and
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supporters of other women and then I'm
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sure you found that other women's have
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not been as as supportive can you talk a
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little bit about that dichotomy I it's
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interesting and I it's such a waste of
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of energy um but I think women are hard
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on other women now don't get me wrong I
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talk about this in the book I'm not
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saying that women should give other
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women a pass uh I think women um have to
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compete on Merit and no one should be
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entitled to get a job or to get a
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promotion or to win an election because
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they're a woman um but if a woman is um
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it's it's almost as if sometimes women
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try to find flaws with other women and I
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don't know where it comes from but I
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know it's negative and I know it's not a
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pretty place where it comes from um and
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I think it's um I've tried in my career
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to bite my tongue when I want to be
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hypercritical of other women because
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there is this tendency to I think do
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that and I I just want women to realize
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that we need to support each other it's
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especially important if you're in a male
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dominated field I talk about the queen
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bee syndrome where when I went to the
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legislature there were some women who
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were really wanting to Mentor me and
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help me and there were other women who
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were very uh standoffish and undermine
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me and so you know women get to choose
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which they want to be and I just hope
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more and more women choose the nurturing
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mentoring um colleague as opposed to uh
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she's my competitor they maybe will only
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take one woman can I cut her off at the
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knees right and this it's very hard in
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such a demanding sort of Arena um and
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you had a lot of demands placed on you
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and one of the things that I also
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reflected on as I was reading your book
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was that the number of times where you
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were able to remain calm and have Grace
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Under Pressure um there's one instance
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where um you you spoke about um when
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Barack Obama was pulling out of Missouri
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and you said well I have given so much
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and I have and you basically went into
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another room calmed yourself down and
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then came back out and gave that
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argument now that's really
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difficult to do how have you been able
00:16:01
to to do that when you when you are
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faced with these extreme sorts of
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pressure situations where you just want
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to explode um how do you actually step
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back and calm yourself down well I you
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know I don't know I think it's um
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probably how goal oriented I am um I
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think part of that is owning your
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ambition um because I was ambitious and
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comfortable with being ambitious
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everything was really will this help me
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reach my goal and sometimes being
00:16:31
histrionic or letting your emotions show
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too much I'm not saying that you have to
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be you know The Iron Lady or not have
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feelings I think frankly being
00:16:40
vulnerable is part of being a more
00:16:44
attractive candidate um for especially
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for bigger jobs in politics so people
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can relate to you but you also have to
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be careful that you don't um allow the
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emotional moment get in the way of your
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ability to communicate because at the
00:17:03
end of the day um if you fail to
00:17:05
communicate especially if you're in
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political office then you fail at your
00:17:09
job so speaking of vulnerability what
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makes you nervous you've seen so much
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now what still kind of gives you the
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Jitters that you feel like you have to
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do that extra set of preparation for
00:17:20
that really makes you nervous going out
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to do anything that comes to mind I
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think I I when I'm speaking on behalf of
00:17:26
others um I've done a lot of surrogacy
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work I did a lot of work for Barack
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Obama when he ran for president uh I
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debated Karly fiorina on Meet the Press
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she was representing John McCain I was
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representing Barack Obama I'm trying to
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help Hillary Clinton right now um it's
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one thing when I'm speaking for me but
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when you're trying to represent um a
00:17:46
candidate you believe in you want to be
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extra careful and cautious that you
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don't end up making a gaff that hurts
00:17:53
them so I think that probably is where I
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try to be um not too careful cuz then
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you're not authentic but careful that I
00:18:02
don't um mix that I'm speaking to help
00:18:06
another candidate as opposed to
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necessarily um trying to push my own
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agenda and that's that's hard but I I
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really have gotten to the point now that
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I don't mind making mistakes I'm
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comfortable making mistakes my mouth has
00:18:20
gotten me in trouble so many times Well
00:18:22
speaking of which has Hillary forgiven
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you uh yeah no she's fine um uh yeah
00:18:28
we're fine and uh the the Clinton family
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um were fine I think
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um they understand that you know I've I
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apologize for saying a comment that was
00:18:38
gratuitous and painful and hurtful to
00:18:40
them which I shouldn't have done but I
00:18:43
have at least getting in trouble a lot
00:18:45
for saying exactly what I think kind of
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now um makes me really comfortable um
00:18:50
saying what I think knowing that um I
00:18:53
try not to make mistakes but if I do if
00:18:56
you say you're sorry and you're genuine
00:18:58
about it people pretty forgiving yeah
00:19:00
okay so the last question I have for you
00:19:02
is really in terms of this balance um
00:19:04
and this authenticity what is your
00:19:06
philosophy on motherhood you've raised
00:19:08
three children um you have stepchildren
00:19:11
you have lots of grandchildren you know
00:19:13
are you a strict mother how how have you
00:19:15
really balanced this in terms of your
00:19:17
career and and being a mother your other
00:19:19
important role well I think uh one thing
00:19:22
I try to do in the book and I want women
00:19:24
who are working um to get this part uh
00:19:27
you know mothers who don't work outside
00:19:30
the home are not perfect and mothers who
00:19:33
do work outside the home are not perfect
00:19:36
there is not a perfect mother um mothers
00:19:40
are like snowflakes they're all
00:19:42
different and what you do is you
00:19:44
prioritize your children in ways that
00:19:46
are meaningful and for me I managed my
00:19:49
guilt by um really not sweating the
00:19:52
small stuff I forgot about the dust
00:19:55
bunnies under the bed even though um my
00:19:58
mother-in-law would test Tusk when she'd
00:20:00
come over sometimes my kids clothes
00:20:02
weren't pressed like mine were when I
00:20:05
was a little girl um and but that's okay
00:20:09
uh I asked my kids when I was writing
00:20:11
this book what did you how did you
00:20:13
suffer because of my work tell me what
00:20:16
what I failed you I want to know now
00:20:18
that you're grown what hurt and um Lily
00:20:22
goes well will my youngest child said
00:20:23
well really Mom the only thing I
00:20:24
remember is that I always had Lunchables
00:20:27
right for lunch instead of H sandwi now
00:20:30
I don't know if she was trying to make
00:20:31
me feel okay right and she said she
00:20:33
actually liked it she said because
00:20:34
everybody wanted to trade for her
00:20:35
lunches now I'm not sure if that's true
00:20:38
or if she was trying to make me feel
00:20:40
good as as a grown child and a mom who
00:20:44
uh Ador her and I hope she adores me but
00:20:47
either way I figure the parenting turned
00:20:49
out okay because either she wanted to
00:20:51
make me feel better which means she was
00:20:53
you raced her with the Val with empathy
00:20:55
and understanding how other people feel
00:20:57
or um the Lunchables weren't that big a
00:20:59
deal so I I think that um politics has a
00:21:03
lot of flexibility for women in terms of
00:21:05
their schedules and I think there are
00:21:07
too many women that shy away from
00:21:09
politics because they're worried about
00:21:12
having a family and what they see as the
00:21:14
dirty rotten world of political life and
00:21:16
I hope this book um tells some young
00:21:19
aspiring women politicians that they can
00:21:22
be great moms and have a full personal
00:21:24
life and also go out there and get some
00:21:26
stuff done in the public sector that
00:21:28
needs to be done that's great and I
00:21:29
think this is a real really nice lesson
00:21:31
in Balance because I love the way that
00:21:33
you know even asking you these questions
00:21:35
I see your eyes light up when you talk
00:21:37
about your career and then I ask you
00:21:39
about your family and your eyes light up
00:21:40
as well and so I think that that's a
00:21:42
real sign that you've been able to do
00:21:44
both of them um in a really graceful way
00:21:46
so thank you so much for joining us
00:21:48
today thank you thank you
00:22:01
[Music]
