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so the paper is about the different kinds of moves that people make in their careers and trying to understand the
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differences between them so obviously these days most people in their careers sometimes they move jobs inside firms
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they get a promotion maybe they move to different function a lot of times obviously people move across firms as
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well and so what we look at is do those moves have different kinds of effects it
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pretty much the same so you move to a job doesn't really matter if it's in the
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same company or a different one or is it that you're really doing quite different
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things when you move jobs inside firms versus across them um and so that's the
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basic goal of the paper we looked at it so we did a survey a few years ago of our alumni here at Warton and ask them
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about all of the jobs that they had held and we use that to kind of disentangle which are the jobs that have to
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disentangle when did they move jobs inside organizations when did they move across and what happened to them when
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they made those moves so we found quite big differences between the moves that took place inside
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the firms and the moves that took place across the firms um when people were moving inside firms we saw they got a
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pay raise um they also CAU quite big increase in responsibilities so they tended to rise up in terms of their
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title and they pretty much doubled the number of people that they were managing when people moved um jobs across firms
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they also got a pay raise but it didn't tend to come with an increase in responsibilities instead they were
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moving to a job with often a similar title and usually with the same number of subordinates managing the same number
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of people and so they weren't necessarily getting a promotion in the same way so we saw you know kind of
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talks to different move different reasons for moving so when people are moving inside it's you know they're
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moving up the ladder when people are moving to jobs in other terms they're getting a pay raise they get paid to
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move but they're not making the same kind of move up the ladder they're moving to a similar rung orbe it in a
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different organization I think I was impressed by how Stark the differences were between
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um the internal and the external move so I had a sense from prior um prior research that probably you know a
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reasonable proportion of um moves between firms are in effect lateral the idea there being
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that employers know the people who work for them and so they have a sense that they're doing good work and they're
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prepared to promote them if they're doing well obviously we don't know the
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people in other organizations and so it may often be that we feel a lot more comfortable bringing somebody who's
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really shown they can do that job somewhere else and so there was a sense that we'd see quite a lot of hiring
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being lateral the extent to which those moves were kind of overwhelmingly lateral I think surprised me so kind of
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just the sheer scale of the differences between internal and external you know I think they have
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implications on both the part of obviously people pursuing their careers and certainly employers I mean one of
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the things we found so like I said when people move jobs they get a pay raise we
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also looked at how much people were being paid at the time of the survey and how that related to the kinds of moves
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they've made we found that the more times that somebody had moved inside an organization the more pay they were
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receiving that kind of makes sense these ly promotions you're getting up to the
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next ladder the more promotions you've had yeah we expect the more you should
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be paid it turned out the number of times have moved across firms um didn't predict pay at all so it wasn't that
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they were bad moves but they weren't good either and I think what's going on
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there is you know when you move across firms you get a pay rise maybe 20% something like that but what you do is
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you delay your time often to the next promotion um and so the tradeoff there is a little more complicated and so you
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know it does suggest that internal moves are quite important in moving ahead in your career so that's not saying don't
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move externally we don't see a penalty for moving externally but it does say I
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think as people think about their careers they want at various stages to be able to kind of be promoted to move
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up the ladder inside organizations and so I get a bit nervous when people tell me about their career plan I'm going to
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go to this job you know there's not a lot of head room but I'll get great
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experience and I'll use that experience to get hired into a higher level job
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somewhere else that turns out to be quite a hard transition to make and so I think finding a job where there is room
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to grow inside the organization you may not want to stay at that organization forever but at least get a rung or two
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up the ladder enabling you to move out to a higher rung elsewhere I think that seems like a smarter career strategy um
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on the employer side again they're kind of you know I think it reiterated something I found in my prior work which
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was that when you're hiring from outside you have to pay a lot right because you
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have to pay whatever somebody was getting doing the same job somewhere else plus maybe 20% in order to get them
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to move and so again that makes moving people internally seem a lot cheaper I mean I don't think there's
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been a great deal of work really trying to evaluate these kind of internal and external moves um you know I think two
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or three things that were nice um about what we were able to do with this survey
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um we were able to capture all the times people have moved inside organizations I
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think a lot of times when people have tried to look at in this in the past using some of the kind of big survey
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data they've had to use fairly weak measures of Moves Like if somebody changed occupation or something like
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that were able to just ask them about all of the job moves that they had um second nice thing I think often in these
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surveys particular when people are trying to understand the extent of external Mobility you know there's
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always a question about we know that being laid off is very bad and so you really have to
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untangle voluntary moves from the involuntary we were able to do that reasonably well um in a way that other
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research probably had I think the biggest difference or the the one that I found most valuable was really getting a
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good measure of what people were doing in each of these jobs so particularly like you knowing these managerial jobs
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how many people you manage is a reasonable measure of responsibility so having that in each job and really being
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able to look at how that changed as people move jobs I think you know gave us an ability to really Advance on PRI
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literature by understanding what's going on during these moves I think one of the areas that
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we're looking at in detail is trying to get a sense of um some of the more specific paths that people follow as
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they move across organizations and so one of the things that I've been very interested in is where do people start
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their careers and where do they move to subsequently and one of the interesting things you see with this population is
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there's a fairly small group of organizations that people tend to move into for their first jobs limited number
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of investment Banks consulting firms big corporates they hire a lot of these mbas
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and then afterwards the mbas go off to a wide variety y of um different organizations and so getting a better
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sense on why they're doing that how that um fits in with firm strategies is something I'm very interested in you
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know another thing I think that a lot of people as have asked me about this study
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is about the differences between men and women somewhat surprisingly we actually
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see kind of similar effects in terms of internal and external moves for both men
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and women so there's not that doesn't seem to be generating differences in how
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men and women do in this sample nonetheless there are big differences and so women end up earning
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substantially less and I think one of the other questions were interesting what are some of the industries that are
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more female friendly and why and what are some of the places and career PS that particularly seem to penalize women
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in the sample [Music]