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[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome, everybody. This is the Wharton
School Press and it's
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Meet The Author series. I'm Mike Useem, Faculty Director
of the Leadership Center
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and the McNulty Leadership
Program at the Wharton School. And today I have the
privilege of introducing
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two of our newest authors. In fact, co-authors, Erika James
of the Wharton School and Lynn
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Perry Wooten of
Simmons University. Just a word about each. Erika has served on
the faculty of Emory
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and Tulane University
of Virginia before she joined our faculty
as Dean in the middle of 2020.
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Quite a year that was. And of course, Erika, I
think many of you know, has long been involved
in teaching and research
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on organizational behavior,
crisis leadership, racial diversity, and
more generally around how
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cultures help people thrive
personally and professionally. Lynn has served on the
faculty of Cornell University,
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University of Michigan
before becoming the President of Simmons
University also in mid 2020.
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And Lynn has been engaged
in teaching and research on organizational
development transformation.
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She's focused on crisis
leadership, diversity inclusion, and
organizational leadership.
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And I can't think
of two better people to speak with us today
about crisis leadership
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and how to prepare for
it, to get through it, and come out at the
far end the right way.
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So I'm going to start with
a couple of questions. You'll see a banner at
the bottom with ways
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to submit your questions. And I'm going to begin with
Erika and then bring Lynn in.
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Erika, it's really
interesting, you and Lynn go back to your
graduate school days.
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So you've known each
other for quite a while. But thinking about
the book itself,
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how did you come to decide
to write the book together? And tell us a little bit
about the process of putting
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two heads together on-- here's the full title
of the book, by the way, The Prepared Leader,
Emerge From Any Crisis More
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Resilient Than Before. I think we all want that. Erika, welcome. Thank you, Mike.
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I'm delighted to be
here and always enjoy sharing the stage with Lynn. To your question about how
we came to write this book,
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we've had a professional
collaboration for more than 25 years. And as a result, we
are very familiar
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with each other's
styles and we have a similar interest in the
kind of research that we do.
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So this is not our first
time at a collaboration. We had written an
earlier book in 2008.
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And after about a
decade, we realized that it was time to update that
previous book, which was also
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on crisis and leading
under pressure. And we realized that so
much had changed since then
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that it was time to update. So we connected and started
writing this process in 2019,
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which as you know,
was prepandemic. We were also both going
through a career transition
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where she would be starting as
Simmons University president and I was to start at Wharton
as the Dean on the same day
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July 2020. And just a couple
of months before we started our new roles, the
pandemic came to the US,
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and we realized that
we needed to kind of pivot our ideas, not to
just update the previous book
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but to really incorporate what
the world was now experiencing leading through this
crisis and managing
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through really something
that was unprecedented. So we both brought our
own personal experiences
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as crisis leaders
through this but also the 20-plus years of
research that we've been
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doing in crisis management. Erika, thank you on that. Lynn, we'd love to get
your thoughts as well.
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So Erika and I met
in a statistics class many years ago. And since then, we have
been research collaborators.
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And Mike, we've been
asking the question really how do we use research and
practice to make leadership
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better, especially as it
relates to crisis leadership? And I remember the
day in 2019 because I
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was in my car driving the back
roads of Ithaca, New York. And I called Erika and said,
we need to update our book.
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The world needs
to understand what we've learned since
our first book The Skill Sets, how to apply
it and tell the leadership
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stories. So that's kind of the story. And it's amazing to
think that this was 2019
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and we did not know a
pandemic was coming. And so fast forward to when I
first made that call in my car
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to Erika, we had to
really rethink our model and make it relevant
for contemporary times.
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Right. So Lynn, thank you on that. Let me stay with you then
with a follow on question,
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which goes to the heart of
what the new book is all about. I want to quote the
two of you directly.
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You say, "We can
prepare our leadership, our organizations, our
systems to withstand
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crises whatever they are,
whenever they strike." And the obvious
follow on question,
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and we all want to be
prepared, that's pretty unequivocal I think in
the thinking of everybody.
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Help us appreciate at least a
couple of the most important steps to do that preparation.
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Lynn, let's begin
with you on that one. So the premise of the book
is often in business school
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where Erika and I spent
most of our careers. We tell our students
about the three Ps.
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You have to be excellent
at managing people. You have to maximize profit or
organizational effectiveness
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and you have to think about
the plan and how you store it. But those three Ps
do not operate alone.
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We have this concept
that the fourth P is prepared leadership. And to be a prepared leader,
one, you have to say crisis
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will happen. So understanding the
phases of crisis. How do I prevent them? How do I scan my
environment for them?
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Once the crisis
hits, how do I make sure I kind of go into recovery
mode and learn from them?
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So we have this five
phase model about, one, being a prepared
leader is understanding
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the phases of crisis. But it's more than that. Mike. It really is a muscle. It's a set of competencies
that are so important.
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And we have nine
competencies and I know we're going to
talk about them later.
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But the basic ideal
is that we have to realize as leaders we're
going to live in crisis.
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So what are the
skills we need and how do we embed those skills
in our leadership practices
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and in our teams? And Lynn, just as a
transition over to Erika on the same question, I
really like the optimism
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that the two of you
share that all of us can get more prepared. It's not something we're
born with or born without.
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We can work hard to get those
leadership capacities in place if we decide to do it.
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Erika, over to you
on the same question. I echo what Lynn
described, but I would also
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add that to your point
about there being a muscle, that muscle only
comes with practice.
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And we don't want to have
to wait for the next crisis in order to get the
next level of practice.
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So part of what we
advocate for leaders and for their organizations is
to engage in scenario planning.
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Really going
through the exercise of identifying what are the
areas in which our organization
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is vulnerable and
how would we respond if that vulnerability
actually manifests into some kind of threat?
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So that practice not only for
the leader but the leader's team and further down
into the organization,
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going through the exercise
of identifying where there are vulnerabilities
and practicing
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and scenario planning
how you would respond to any of those things. Right, Erika.
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Practice makes more perfect. Lynn, before we move on,
do you want to get back in on that issue one more time?
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Yeah. It's this notion of that
practice comes in many forms. And we know as leaders you
learn from formal classes,
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you learn by doing, and
you learn from your peers. And part of what
we've seen in what
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I call this pandemic
era is learning has to happen that you
have to bring knowledge
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from history, from the past. You have to scan your
organization, what your competitors are doing,
what your peers are doing,
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what other industries are doing. And then you have to not only
do kind of the after action
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review, but as Erika said,
the scenario planning for the future. So prepared leadership is
like building the bridge
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as you walk on it. It's constantly asking
yourself as a leader, what do I need to
do better to be
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equipped for that next crisis? What are the skills? And it's not only me but we
talk a lot about the importance
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of teamwork too. The other thing is we talk
about decision making. It's hard in a crisis
situation to be
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prepared for the decisions. So if you know the
heretics sticks and the unconscious biases
that you might have in a crisis
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situation, you'll be more
effective at decision making too. It's great. Just to add my own words
to it, life is a classroom.
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Our own lives are a classroom. And to strengthen
that muscle, we just got to look at ourselves,
look around us.
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It's an amazing classroom
if we learn to use it. Erika, I'm going
to turn to you now
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for the next
question on the nine skills of crisis management. And maybe you could pick out a
couple of those that are really
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top of mind at the moment
maybe from your own life and leading the
Wharton School part
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of University of Pennsylvania. And then we'll turn to Lynn. So back to the main question.
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The nine skills of
crisis management. Give us your guidance on maybe
the couple most important
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right now. So the way we frame
the nine skills is that they are aligned
with each of the five phases
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that Lynn just described. And there are a couple
that I think are paramount. The first one is kind of
obvious because typically when
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you think of crisis
management and we think of crisis response,
the first thing people
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go to is communication. So it is incumbent upon leaders
and others in the organization
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to be able to
communicate effectively around what the issue is
that they're addressing,
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how the stakeholders-- what
stakeholders will be affected, and what the response or
set of responses will be.
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But the communication
is really, it's a necessary but insufficient
part of the whole crisis
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leadership responsibility. So the two other areas
that I tend to highlight is this notion of risk taking.
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When we're
experiencing a crisis, our natural tendency is to
become much more internal
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and conservative and
narrow in our thinking and our perspective taking. And therefore, we're less
creative in problem solving.
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And one of the
things that we have found with prepared leaders
is that they push themselves
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or over time become more
experienced at taking risks even when there are
threatening circumstances.
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And then the last skill that I
would describe as this notion around being agile
leaders and therefore
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building the capability for
the organization to become an agile organization. This means pivoting
when you need to pivot.
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It means testing and
experimenting new ideas and being responsive despite
all of the incoming influences
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that you're experiencing. Great. Thank you. Lynn. Erika and I joke her PhD is
in organizational psychologist
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and my PhD's in
corporate strategies. She likes a lot of
the micro behaviors
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and I like the macro behaviors. And the two big
macro behaviors are resiliency and
organizational learning
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that are the competencies at
the last phase of the crisis. So often in a crisis we
communicate, we communicate,
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we try to get business
recovery back to normal. That's typical
crisis management.
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But Erika and I argue that
to be a crisis leader, it's beyond getting
business back to normal.
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It really is becoming
better after the crisis. It's seeing the crisis
as an opportunity.
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And so think about resiliency. Resiliency is not only bouncing
back but it's being better.
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In the book, we talk about,
one, that yes, crises are hard. And so you have to give
yourself some grace and a pause
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to get yourself together. And then, Mike, we go to
the metaphor you said. It's a classroom.
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You have to ask yourself,
the world has changed. We are in crisis mode. What do I need to do to resolve
this crisis to be resilient
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and what do I need to learn? And then the third phase
is embedding that learning
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into the organization
or the system. Just a few days ago I was
looking at a newspaper
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and they were talking about
the Michigan state government and the after action
review that they
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did for how they managed
the pandemic in '20 and '21. It talked about
things they did well
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and it talked about things
that they did not do well, such as mobilizing vaccines
to certain neighborhoods.
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So that after action
review is important. So that resiliency. Learning also has to
be in multiple modes.
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So we spend a lot of time
on individual learning. But as a crisis leader, we know
that the team learning is just
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as important. You look at the
Chilean miner crisis. You look at the magnificent
miraculous landing of the plane
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on the Hudson River. Those are old crises
now, but they're examples of how the team
learned to maneuver and succeed
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in those crises. And so the best team
to take 1 plus 1 and make it greater than
2, and so the team learning
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is a very big part of this
collective learning and systems thinking. It's great.
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Let me stay on this topic,
maybe kicking back to Erika initially then
back to you, Lynn,
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around the word agile and
the need to be very agile, to bring agility to
your office every day
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when you come into work. And you do offer up the
example in the book. You've got some
fantastic case accounts
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of people who went
through some of the steps that you're referencing here,
including being very agile.
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So Erika, could you just
stretch out for a little bit here the experience of the
commissioner of the NBA
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who managed to somehow on a
dime act very agilely to take the league, the NBA to where
it ended up as the COVID-19
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crisis descended on the world? Erika, over to you. Yes, thank you. So Adam Silver is the
commissioner of the National
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Basketball Association. And I'll never forget being
in my bedroom about to watch,
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and I don't remember which
teams were playing, but a game. And then there was a
pause before they started.
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Refs came out. There was all this commotion. And next thing you know,
they're canceling the game
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because one of the players
had been diagnosed with COVID. And this was in the obviously
very, very early stages.
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It was unusual to
me that they would make such a dramatic call. And then within
a matter of days,
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the entire NBA season
had been canceled. And what Lynn and I uncovered in
terms of Adam Silver's approach
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to making that decision was
that they received information or solicited information
from a wide source of experts
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to better understand
what is this virus? What are the implications? What does our sports
and this organization,
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how will it contribute
to the ongoing pandemic if, in fact, we continue
this season knowing
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that we'll have thousands
of people in close quarters together? What will be the implications
for the health of the team?
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So they took all
of this information into account in
order to make what we would describe as a
pretty high risk situation
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or decision, rather. But they did so being very
well informed and confident that they would also
come up with a solution
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to continue with the
season, which they did. And so we know the
end of the story.
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It went as well as anyone
could have possibly imagined. But it took a lot of guts for
Adam Silver to make that call.
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It also took creativity, which
is one of the competencies we talked about. I mean, think about it, Mike.
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Before the pandemic,
could we ever imagine a basketball bubble
or even full universities
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being online? So this creativity is something
that goes along with agility. Yeah, it's great.
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Super. Thank you on that. Let's make it more personal
for the next few minutes.
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And I think on
this I'm going to, Erika, get you
going at the outset. You both, as we've
indicated at the outset,
00:16:35
took office July 1, 2020. Another challenging
moment, to say the obvious. A moment when your
own preparation
00:16:44
was vital for getting
through the months and now the couple of years ahead. And Erika, beginning
with you, what
00:16:51
are one or two of the leadership
capabilities or crisis leadership capabilities that
have proven most vital to you
00:16:59
personally as you became
Dean of the Wharton School July 1, 2020? Well, just as a reminder
for our listeners,
00:17:08
when Lynn and I assumed
our respective roles on July 1st of 2020, there were
two crises that were underway.
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The first, obviously,
was the pandemic. But the other was the racial
reckoning and social justice
00:17:20
movement that
happened on the heels of George Floyd and others. And starting in a university
setting during those two times
00:17:31
was tremendously complicated. And the expectations
that various stakeholders had about how our
respective institutions were
00:17:38
going to show up in that
moment was quite complex. So one of the
things that I think
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I'll speak for Lynn on this
also is one of the things that we had to do was
really assess the situation
00:17:50
very quickly. We had to learn completely
new environments. We had to learn new people.
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We had to establish trust. Not only who we could
trust but allowing people insight into who we
were so that they
00:18:03
would trust us in
our organization's most vulnerable moments. So the ability to assess
the situation quickly
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was pivotal for both of us. I would say that the other
thing was really around needing
00:18:15
to establish trust. I mentioned that earlier. Not knowing who
your team members are, not having any
history, not knowing
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the political and
interpersonal dynamics, not knowing what the
motivation was for people
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and why they were
saying or advising you in certain ways, all of that
really underscored the need
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to learn how to establish
trust in the people that we would be working with
throughout the impending months
00:18:43
during the crisis. And then I would
say the last thing was we each have
multiple stakeholders
00:18:48
that we are accountable to. So our students, our faculty,
our alumni, the staff,
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the community in the surrounding
area of our institutions, all of those had
expectations of us.
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And sometimes those expectations
were quite disparate. And so we needed to learn how
to navigate and manage and pivot
00:19:07
back and forth to be
responsive as appropriate to various stakeholders. That's great.
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Lynn? Mike, in the book
we use the metaphor what happens when a
crisis hits and you walk
00:19:20
in the middle of the movie? And that's what July 1st
was like for Erika and I.
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We both took our jobs before
the pandemic was known and then we started July 1st.
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And we had to do all
those things Erika said and we had to do a lot
of the softer side.
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Getting to know
people, giving them hope that university life
could exist in a pandemic.
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And also industry disruption. Higher ed had never been
disruptive this way. Six months before
the pandemic if you
00:19:48
would have told
most universities that they were going to
have to run fully online,
00:19:53
faculty would have
laughed at that. You know that, Mike. And so we had to
not only give hope
00:19:57
but build a pathway
that people could see we could move
forward and still give the same great
university experiences
00:20:04
for our multiple stakeholders. Lynn, let me stay with you as
an immediate follow up on that.
00:20:11
And looking back now
over the past two years, we do learn to lead
through a difficult period
00:20:19
partly by preparing for
it but equally by learning from going through it. So could you pick out, and then
I'll turn to Erika, something
00:20:28
that you necessarily highlight
in your own mind that would be vital for
your leadership
00:20:33
on taking over Simmons
University back in July 2020? Something that is kind of
new on your own horizon
00:20:41
that you didn't see
coming in but you now know to be very important
for being a prepared leader.
00:20:48
Well, I said Erika and
I met in grad school. So we're both academics. And academics tend to
love to pilot solo.
00:20:54
And so most of
your career, you're rewarded for solo performance. I can say that taking over as
Simmons University's president
00:21:02
has reinforced the team,
the team, the team. That prepared leadership
is not a solo journey.
00:21:08
You need the right people on
your team and the right seats. And not only the
internal team, but it
00:21:14
took the whole ecosystem. My alum, the community of
Boston, higher education to make this thing work.
00:21:20
So that's what I learned. The importance of
multiple teams. And Lynn, before
we go to Erika, let
00:21:26
me reference an interview we
completed a couple of years ago with a person who
ran a huge hospital.
00:21:32
And COVID hit hospitals as
hard as any institutions. And she sat down with her
team literally the next day
00:21:40
and said, let's pull
the team together. Let's indeed grab this
particular disaster
00:21:48
by the lapels and
let's get on with it. And so her team was her first-- her team consolidation and
commitment was the first thing
00:21:58
that she sought. It sounds like, Lynn, this was
a big piece of your experience as well.
00:22:03
This was a big piece of
both of our experiences. And Mike, remember that
example you gave is she
00:22:08
was able to sit
down with her team. Erica and I had to meet in Zoom. I had team members I
didn't meet for six months
00:22:14
after I moved to Boston
because of the pandemic. So building that trust,
building the prepared leaders'
00:22:21
competencies over Zoom and
charting a course forward. I see you chuckling. Was not something
I imagine doing
00:22:29
when I took the job
in February of 2020. Exactly. Erika. So I think the thing that I take
away from this experience most
00:22:38
is people are familiar with
the phrase with every crisis, there's an opportunity.
00:22:44
Or when life gives you
lemons, make lemonade. And so we assume that that
happens just naturally.
00:22:51
And one of the
observations that I've had is that you actually
have to be very
00:22:56
intentional about manifesting
opportunities following a crisis, in large part
because people are exhausted.
00:23:03
They're tired. They're ready for it to be over. They want to get back to
what they refer to as normal.
00:23:08
And the leader has to recognize
normal will never be again. You are fundamentally changed
after a threat like a pandemic
00:23:15
or any other kind of
significant crisis. And so in order to be
resilient, in order
00:23:23
to be better than
you were in the past, you have to be intentional
about creating and communicating
00:23:29
a vision of what
the organization can be going forward. And so our role is to be that
vision maker and that vision
00:23:38
communicator. So I think that was the thing
that was most profound for me going through this process.
00:23:45
That's terrific. Let's open this up
in just a minute. So if you have
questions, I think
00:23:51
we're going to let you
know once again where to send the questions. And I'm ready to
move them along.
00:23:59
Let me go before we open
it up completely here, Erika, let me start
with you on this one.
00:24:04
Final one from me. And that is of all that you've
learned over the last two years, what aspect of
your prepared leadership
00:24:14
now did you least
anticipate coming in to the deanship that
has proven to be really vital for your
ability to get the job done?
00:24:24
So what would you single
out was not seen coming in but now you know you need it?
00:24:32
I think for me it
really was recognizing the interdependency that
exists within the organization.
00:24:40
Oftentimes people look to a
single individual, a leader, the person with
the highest title,
00:24:46
as the one who will address and
resolve all of the problems. And it's so clear that
the leader is only
00:24:55
as good as the people
and the team that is surrounding him or her. So I feel very fortunate to
have entered into an institution
00:25:04
that has really strong
people and where there was a strong culture
even before I came here.
00:25:09
So I could leverage
that culture to help us navigate through really
difficult circumstances.
00:25:14
So culture is critical. I knew that going in,
but experiencing it in the context of a crisis
just makes it all the more
00:25:23
noticeable and valuable. Erika, let me stall with
you for just a second on this issue of culture.
00:25:31
You preside over a
very large faculty. Thousands of students
are part of the school.
00:25:36
You're part of a university. So creating a culture,
sustaining a mindset, is no easy task when there
are so many people involved.
00:25:46
If there's one thing
that has helped you create a culture
of preparedness, a culture in which we're
all called upon to lead,
00:25:53
what would you single out
as the most important tactic that you have engaged in over
the last couple of years?
00:26:00
Well, there are two that
I think go hand in hand. One is you have to be really
clear about the culture
00:26:06
that you want to
create or foster. And by being clear,
that means you've got to communicate it
in all sorts of ways.
00:26:14
Subtly, directly, indirectly,
with small groups of people, with large groups of people,
in writing, we have our faculty
00:26:22
meetings, you name it. So the more you get the message
out about the kind of culture
00:26:27
that you're trying to establish
and then showing proof points and having real examples of
ways in which that culture is
00:26:34
starting to manifest. And then connected
to that really is also having the
right people in place
00:26:40
to be stewards and
ambassadors of that culture. So other people are
also walking the walk
00:26:46
and living in a manner that's
consistent with the culture that you're trying to create.
00:26:51
Erika, thank you on that. Lynn. So for me we talk
about the scale of crisis in the book and the
notion that now in this world,
00:26:59
all crises are global. And in a global crisis,
you need mega community. So what I learned is it's
not only my organization that
00:27:07
has to work towards
solving the crisis. The concept of
mega communities is that nonprofit organizations,
corporations, and government
00:27:14
have to come together. And we've seen this
in the last two years, the power of mega community.
00:27:19
And then I want to go back
to something Erika has said. Most of my career we've had
crises but not at this scale.
00:27:25
And usually we don't
have the challenge of how do you balance
managing and coming
00:27:31
to recovery in a
large scale crisis with thinking about
the future and being visionary and strategic.
00:27:38
So it's this balance being
you're constantly juggling. People are tired
with the pandemic
00:27:43
and they can't focus
on their future. And creating that vision,
creating that culture,
00:27:47
giving that hope
is so important. All right. Lynn and Erika, thank
you on all of the above.
00:27:54
And now we have some really
interesting questions coming in. So send your questions to us.
00:27:59
Suzanne from LinkedIn
asks the following. And I think on this one
we'll begin with you, Lynn.
00:28:05
At a time of uncertainty, how
do you stay agile and experiment while managing the pressures of
stakeholders who want certainty
00:28:14
and final decisions? A very good question. A very good question. Well, why don't
we talk about you
00:28:20
have to have quick
ethical decision making. So being quick. Using the data is so important.
00:28:26
And then once you
have that data, framing that data so that
each stakeholder understands
00:28:32
why you're making the
decision, how you're making it, and what the data or
information tells you.
00:28:37
And none of us are going
to get everything right. We've seen that in the
last couple of years.
00:28:41
But if you communicate those
decisions and the process and spend time
building trust, you
00:28:47
can really address that
first question you had. Right. Erika. I would suggest that when
you are authentic in what
00:29:00
you're trying to achieve
and people recognize the value that you bring and
they recognize why you are
00:29:09
wanting to engage
in the behaviors that you're engaging
with, why you're making
00:29:12
the decisions that
you're making, and how it will
ultimately affect different people within
the organization,
00:29:18
I think that's really what for
me helps to establish the need to respond with finality
to the here and now
00:29:28
but also recognize that
I have responsibilities as a strategic leader, which
means a longer term vision
00:29:36
and just being clear about
both of those things. All right. Thank you on that
issue from Suzanne.
00:29:43
I have a kind of a parallel
question here from Rob. It's also very interesting.
00:29:49
Here it is from
Rob via LinkedIn. And Erika, why don't we
start with you on this one?
00:29:56
What has been the
nicest surprise? It's good to talk about
the good part of leadership
00:30:01
not about how tough it can be
at a given day at the office. So what has been
the nicest surprise
00:30:06
you have experienced in
leading through these crises at your own respective
institutions?
00:30:11
And what can other leaders
look for to find the positives? Well, thank you, Rob,
for asking that question.
00:30:21
One of the nicest
surprises, and it's a reminder I think
to all of us, is to recognize that
there's talents
00:30:28
deep within the organization. And we oftentimes
have a tendency to focus and spend
our time primarily
00:30:35
with our direct
reports, our leadership team, our senior leaders. And that's obviously important.
00:30:41
But in a time of crisis, you
will observe behavior in people that you would not have
necessarily known otherwise.
00:30:48
So going two and three
and even four levels deep into the
organization, connecting
00:30:53
with people who are on the
front lines of the threat at hand, that's
where you'll find
00:31:00
sparks of innovation
and creativity that you never would have
anticipated beforehand.
00:31:05
But it's incumbent
upon the leader to be intentional about
expanding the information
00:31:12
sources that they have and
looking at people regardless of title, regardless of
position, regardless of status
00:31:18
within the organization. Good ideas come from everywhere. Thanks. Lynn. Likewise, it's been
those everyday leaders.
00:31:27
I remember even when the
campus was closed down coming in and during
the Ice cream party
00:31:31
for the people who had
to come to work every day and hearing how they
managed the crisis.
00:31:36
Public safety, the
people who were cleaning, our groundskeepers. And so that's so important.
00:31:41
The other thing that
I was surprised about is the collaboration across
organizational boundaries.
00:31:47
When I started this
job in July of '20, so many people, not only
in the Simmons community
00:31:54
but in the Boston community
and the higher education, had the attitude we're
all in this together.
00:31:59
We're all going to get
through this crisis together and we can develop
collaborative solutions.
00:32:05
Terrific. I have a real
interesting question now from Dave via LinkedIn. And I'm going to just
ask either of you
00:32:12
to jump in as the spirit moves
you as you hear the question. It's a really
important question,
00:32:19
especially during a crisis, but
is true at all times as well. What's the best way to galvanize
a team during a crisis?
00:32:27
What are the crucial
ingredients to getting everyone on the same page
within that team and galvanized,
00:32:34
incentivized, and ready to take
on the problems that abound? So who would like to take
that one to get us going?
00:32:42
I'll start. Crisis really already
have a sense of urgency. And we know from the change
management literature one way
00:32:49
to galvanize people is to
create the sense of urgency. So that's the foundation of it.
00:32:53
But then it does become
that we can do this. It's the we can attitude
that the team can win
00:33:00
and having a theory of change. Everything that I'm trying
to do as a crisis leader,
00:33:05
I try to lay out the situation,
understand it, take the data, and say this is the
theory of change
00:33:10
and how we're going
to get out of it. And I need each of you. And so it's really
telling the story,
00:33:16
having the theory of change,
and then letting everyone see a role that they can have.
00:33:22
I also want to go
back to what Erika said about being authentic and
people seeing your human side.
00:33:28
When we were starting
the fall semester of '20, it was hard for me to
shut down the campus.
00:33:34
I had gone to a college
campus every year of my life since 1984. And to have to
shut down a campus
00:33:40
and not have a convocation
and be able to meet and greet students. But I told that story.
00:33:45
I showed the human side of me. I talked about what
was happening not only at work, but my family.
00:33:52
Erika? Yeah. I would follow on to
that to say it's not only about us as leaders
being human, but it's our
00:33:59
recognizing the
humanity in our teams and realizing that they have
lives that aren't put on pause
00:34:06
so that they can
spend all waking hours and non waking hours addressing
the needs of the university.
00:34:13
So the more people
understand that you empathize and sympathize with what
they're going through,
00:34:20
the more they feel
appreciated for what they're able to contribute. I think that is what really
helps galvanize and create
00:34:27
a sense of loyalty
within the organization by people who are tired, who
are exhausted, who need a break.
00:34:35
And oftentimes,
we can't give them what they need in totality. But if they realize that
we recognize and reward
00:34:44
and applaud and have gratitude
for what they're contributing, I think that goes a long way.
00:34:49
A quick follow up from me on the
commentary you both offered up. And that is Lynn said this
more explicitly just a couple
00:34:58
of minutes ago that we've heard
previously in our discussion here. It's important I think
you've said, both of you
00:35:07
have said, to
personalize modestly. I want to get over
the top in this. But with your team, with
the full university,
00:35:17
with the school to bring
your own life in in a way that illustrates
what your strategy
00:35:23
is, what you're trying to
achieve, and to personalize it. So have I overstated that case
or does that sound about right?
00:35:30
Erika, why don't you start? I think that's absolutely right. And in our case, we
were living leaders
00:35:39
trying to respond to a
crisis while also writing about a crisis while also
engaging all of our research
00:35:45
over the years on
crisis management. So I think the more
we were experiencing what we are trying to advise
and counsel others to do,
00:35:54
the more authentic we
had to be as leaders. So I think it's
absolutely critical
00:35:59
that we present our true
and authentic selves in these moments. Mike, let me give
you an example.
00:36:06
Erika and I have-- my
youngest and her oldest are five days apart and they
both graduated from high school
00:36:13
in 2020. So in the middle of the
pandemic and could not start college in September.
00:36:18
So we were not only experiencing
it as a dean and a president but as a parent of a
child who could not
00:36:25
go to their college campus. And we told that story often
and what it meant to us.
00:36:30
It's great. We may come back to that topic. But let me, because
we're beginning
00:36:35
to run a little short
on time here, bring in, in this case from
LinkedIn, here's the question.
00:36:43
In the book, you talk about the
importance of learning before, during, and after a crisis.
00:36:48
And the question is
then, how do you actively pursue that personal learning? What are the tactics or
steps you've each taken?
00:36:56
Lynn, why don't we start with
you and then go to Erika? So maybe the L in my
name is for Learning.
00:37:03
I love learning. As you can see, I never
left the college campus. But I think both Erika and I
do learning in multiple forms.
00:37:09
So there's the formal classroom,
Mike, which you hinted at. But in the crisis, you have
to vicariously learn too.
00:37:16
So I was scanning
the environment, seeing how other universities
were handling the crisis.
00:37:20
I was looking at health care and
hospitality and manufacturing. So it's constantly
scanning the environment.
00:37:27
Learning also is
the personal board of directors we talked about. I had my kitchen cabinet.
00:37:31
People that I called on weekly,
fellow presidents, friends, other people in
higher education.
00:37:37
I read tons of books
and newspapers. So before the day
starts, I've probably
00:37:41
read three or four
newspapers and end the day with book reading. And then that personal
learning, sometimes I
00:37:48
would go on college campuses
and job shadow people. But as a prepared
leader, you have
00:37:53
to commit to the multiple
forms of learning. The good and the bad. Sometimes I've learned
from bad bosses.
00:37:59
And I make a note of
that, of people who have failed in leading a crisis. Likewise, I learn from people
who I think are exemplars.
00:38:07
Erika. I don't have much more
to add because we're very similar in this regard.
00:38:14
But I will say I would
just advise the audience that we can learn from anyone. And it's not only
about the people
00:38:21
who are more senior to us or who
have been deans or presidents before. But I learn from my
children all the time.
00:38:29
I learn from colleagues
who are in completely different industries. And I think being mindful about
what you see other people doing
00:38:37
or not doing and finding
ways to relate that to your own circumstance,
that is a form of learning.
00:38:45
And just being really
insistent and practiced in doing that regularly. Yeah. Right.
00:38:53
Erika and Lynn, I've learned
from a separate discussion that you learned a
lot from one another
00:38:58
over the last couple of years. So what would be an example
of maybe a phone call or one
00:39:03
of the many phone
calls I think you've shared over the last couple
of years of something
00:39:08
that one of you has learned
from the other's experience? I will start. I am always amazed at how
Erika can take something even
00:39:20
in the middle of
a crisis and make sure the team stays
on the trajectory to pursue excellence.
00:39:26
And so I'm constantly learning
how she maps out, strategizes, brings people together, and
uses that organizational agility
00:39:35
for excellence. And so I'll say,
oh, what are you doing, for example,
to engage new faculty
00:39:39
in the middle of a crisis? And she'll have good examples. Erika. So for me Lynn is an exceptional
academic both scholar but also
00:39:52
teacher. And she's leveraged
both of those skills in being able to design what a
school, what a curricula, what
00:40:04
a program should look like,
whether it's a degree program, whether it's non-degree
executive education.
00:40:10
She's just so masterful at
being able to pull together information and outline
a course of action
00:40:17
or a course of study that
is easily second to none from what I've seen. Thank you on that.
00:40:26
We've got a minute before I ask
a final summary question here. And Lynn, why don't
we throw this at you
00:40:34
to get going here
on this last minute. It's a very important question. And that is with the emphasis
on learning, that takes time.
00:40:44
How do you balance
that curiosity, the natural curiosity to
learn from what you're
00:40:49
doing with the urgency,
especially in a crisis, to make timely decisions? In the middle of the
crisis, you're definitely
00:40:58
prioritizing the urgency. What do I need to get done so
we can go into recovery mode?
00:41:03
And so when I'm in
the middle of a crisis or I recommend for leaders
prioritize the urgency
00:41:09
of resolving the crisis. But after the crisis is when
the real learning can come.
00:41:14
Documenting what happened, the
tacit and explicit learning, and making that time.
00:41:19
So it really is the
trajectory and the continuum is how I try to do it. Erika. So I think of crises as
happening along a continuum.
00:41:28
And at the early
stages, of course, your attention
and your resources have to be allocated
to solving the issue,
00:41:35
putting the tourniquet on so
that we can at least contain the damage of
whatever's happening.
00:41:40
But at some point, and I
think we reach that point long before the crisis is
officially resolved,
00:41:45
we also have to
recognize that we have responsibilities for being
long term strategic leaders
00:41:50
as well. And I remember the
day several months into my deanship at Wharton
when I said to my team,
00:41:58
I can't only focus on
the crisis at hand. I can't only focus
on how we're going
00:42:05
to deliver our education
using technology and how we're going
to prepare our faculty
00:42:11
and how we're going to
prepare our students. I now trust that many of
you are able to move forward
00:42:17
with that work. I have to think about what the
Wharton School is going to be to 2, 5, 10 years from now.
00:42:22
So I also have to allocate some
attention and resources there. And so being clear with people
about what and why and when you
00:42:30
need to pivot your
attention and then trusting them to do the
work that they need to do
00:42:35
allows us to really leverage
other people's skills and allows us to get
things done in the moment
00:42:42
but also over time. Erika and Lynn, thank you. We're nearly out of time. And before we fully
thank you and close,
00:42:52
beginning Lynn with
you, what's one of the most important
lessons you'd like people to take away
from this discussion
00:43:00
but also from the book for
their own future leadership in turbulent times? Each of us with practice
can be a prepared leader
00:43:10
and that requires
learning and creativity. That's great. Erika. You have to surround yourself
by exceptionally talented people
00:43:20
who are going to go
through the fire with you. And that doesn't happen unless
you invest in high quality
00:43:26
relationships beforehand. Thank you very much,
Erika and Lynn. I just want to remind
everybody that The Prepared
00:43:33
Leader is available at Wharton
School Press bookstore. It's on the web and of course
where books are sold online.
00:43:40
To stay updated about
Meet The Authors, visit the Wharton
School Press website and sign up for our newsletter.
00:43:47
And of course, you can
follow Wharton School Press and the Wharton School
itself on social media.
00:43:53
Same for Lynn's Simmons
University, of course. Website there. So let me on behalf of all the
people that are not visible,
00:44:03
I'm going to raise
my hands and lead a collective round of applause. Erika James, Lynn
Perry Wooten, thank
00:44:10
you so much for
your great guidance on being a prepared leader
Thank you very much.
00:44:15
Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Mike. Thank you. Take care, everybody. [MUSIC PLAYING]