00:00:05
welcome to this very special event my
00:00:06
name is Jeff Garrett I have the honor
00:00:09
and privilege of being the dean of the
00:00:10
Wharton School and on behalf of the
00:00:13
University of Pennsylvania I want to
00:00:15
welcome everyone to this event um before
00:00:19
I make some introductory remarks it is
00:00:21
the modern world so I want to remind
00:00:23
everybody that turning every device
00:00:26
you've got onto silent or vibrate would
00:00:29
be much appreciated I was in a I was in
00:00:34
quite a serious meeting the other day
00:00:36
when somebody's George Thorogood and the
00:00:38
Destroyer
00:00:40
ringtone bad to the bone came out and it
00:00:43
really didn't sound very good so um no
00:00:46
ringtones would be greatly appreciated
00:00:49
you're all here at relatively short
00:00:51
notice because this is a very special
00:00:53
event our guest of honor today is
00:00:56
President Paul
00:00:57
kagami the president of Rwanda who
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widely acclaimed for his leadership in
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guiding rwanda's
00:01:05
transformation following the end of the
00:01:08
atrocities of the genocide in
00:01:11
1994 defying expectations about a small
00:01:16
landlocked country in subsaharan Africa
00:01:20
Rwanda has emerged as one of the fastest
00:01:24
growing economies in the
00:01:26
world in fact in the current world Bank
00:01:29
lists with projections for the next
00:01:31
several
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years Rwanda joins five other economies
00:01:38
in Africa in the world's 12 fastest
00:01:41
growing economies think about that for a
00:01:43
second half of the fastest growing
00:01:46
economies in the world today and into
00:01:48
the short-term future are in subsaharan
00:01:53
Africa in fact since president kagami
00:01:57
was elected to office in 2000
00:02:00
the average annual economic growth rate
00:02:03
in Rwanda has been nearly
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8% if you think about the wonders of
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compound interest that means that real
00:02:13
per capita
00:02:15
income in Rwanda has more than trebled
00:02:19
in the past 15 years at least as
00:02:25
impressively when it comes to Rwanda
00:02:27
growth is the fact it has been inclusive
00:02:31
I think everyone today is worried about
00:02:35
how widely spread the gains from
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economic growth
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are in Rwanda it looks as if growth has
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been incredibly widely spread the
00:02:46
headline statistics again according to
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the World Bank are that Rwanda has moved
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more than a million people out of
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poverty since president kagam took
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office infant more
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[Music]
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[Music]
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of course Eric works for us too uh and
00:04:03
he has been teaching with my friend and
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colleague Katherine
00:04:08
Klein A Wharton class a global modular
00:04:11
class in Rwanda for the past several
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years it's incredibly popular it's
00:04:18
oversubscribed but more than 120 Wharton
00:04:22
students have experienced life in
00:04:25
Rwanda and have talked with leaders at
00:04:28
the very highest Lev level including as
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I understand it
00:04:32
twice having informal discussions with
00:04:35
President
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kagami study abroad is always at minimum
00:04:42
I think mind expanding for our students
00:04:45
but I know based on the interactions
00:04:48
I've had that the experiences of our
00:04:51
students in Rwanda have been literally
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life
00:04:56
changing as I said our students have had
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the experience to interact with
00:05:01
president
00:05:02
kagame in Rwanda today we get the
00:05:05
opportunity to interact with him here
00:05:09
today and I was just speaking with the
00:05:13
president um who isn't going to deliver
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an address we're actually going to have
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a conversation with the president and I
00:05:21
think it's a
00:05:22
testament both to his abilities and to
00:05:26
the regard with which he holds Katherine
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Klein
00:05:30
that he's willing to have a conversation
00:05:32
with her in which it's not all
00:05:35
scripted that'll make the stage
00:05:38
conversation very interactive but as
00:05:41
you'll see we have microphones in the
00:05:43
room for all of you to interact with the
00:05:47
president and we will segue from the
00:05:50
onstage conversation to one with all of
00:05:53
you quite
00:05:55
quickly um let me welcome them both the
00:06:00
stage by saying one thing about two
00:06:03
things about Katherine Klein the first
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thing about Katherine uh is that she is
00:06:08
the vice dean of the Wharton social
00:06:11
impact
00:06:13
initiative the second thing to say about
00:06:16
Katherine is that while she's passionate
00:06:20
about many things having to do with the
00:06:23
social impact agenda of the school and
00:06:25
the
00:06:27
university her passion is no greater
00:06:30
than when it comes to Rwanda she's LED
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all of the Wharton Global modular
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classes in Rwanda she's passionate about
00:06:38
the country she's she's supportive of
00:06:41
all that it has achieved and all that it
00:06:44
may achieve in the future and I know
00:06:46
that that will be the subject of her
00:06:49
conversation with President
00:06:51
kagami so please join me in welcoming
00:06:55
both Katherine kleene and president Paul
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kagama May of Rwanda to the stage
00:07:04
now president kagami it is wonderful
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that have you here thank you for the
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honor of coming to Wharton and to Penn
00:07:12
and thank you to uh everyone in the
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audience I have to say we weren't we we
00:07:17
really didn't know what size audience we
00:07:20
would have and we thought we better
00:07:22
prepare for a smaller audience and we
00:07:24
realized very rapidly we were wrong and
00:07:27
uh that this audience is Testament to
00:07:30
how eager everyone is to learn from you
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to learn more about the story of Rwanda
00:07:35
and to talk about the future of Rwanda
00:07:36
so thank you so much for being with us
00:07:38
thank you very much um so let me get
00:07:42
started um I I'd like to start with um
00:07:47
April 2014 uh the speech that you gave
00:07:50
on the occasion of the uh 20th
00:07:53
commemoration of the
00:07:54
genocide um you were in uh amaha Stadium
00:07:58
a very serious emotional momentous time
00:08:03
20 years after the genocide and um you
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gave a little bit of a of a history
00:08:08
lesson and a framing of of Rwanda at the
00:08:11
time and you said um at the end of the
00:08:15
genocide quote everything was a priority
00:08:19
and our people were completely
00:08:21
broken and you went on to describe four
00:08:25
three fundamental choices that Rwandan
00:08:28
made in rebuilding the country and and
00:08:31
I'd like you to to help us understand
00:08:33
those those choices you said one we
00:08:37
chose to stay together two we chose to
00:08:41
be accountable to
00:08:43
ourselves three we chose to think big so
00:08:48
particularly for those in the audience
00:08:49
who may not know so much about Rwanda
00:08:51
could you tell us what those choices
00:08:53
mean what they meant and and how you
00:08:56
came to
00:08:58
them thank thank you first of all I'm
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grateful for the invitation to come and
00:09:03
address uh this gathering in this great
00:09:08
institution I'm happy to be here and
00:09:11
thank you for the many visits you have
00:09:14
paid our country and many people in the
00:09:18
audience now to the
00:09:21
question the three points I raised in my
00:09:25
speech at that
00:09:27
time uh stemmed from indeed what we
00:09:33
understand to be our history and the
00:09:34
complexity of of that
00:09:37
history and I started
00:09:41
with being
00:09:43
together it talks about
00:09:46
Unity it
00:09:48
was relating to the very fact of how the
00:09:55
country historically has has been
00:09:58
divided
00:10:00
and
00:10:01
indeed
00:10:02
the divisive politics bringing the
00:10:07
country to witness the tragedy we had in
00:10:11
1994 so therefore was trying to bring to
00:10:16
the
00:10:17
attention of everybody the importance of
00:10:21
being together as a
00:10:24
nation even if there will
00:10:28
be diversity in our society people will
00:10:32
be different but at the end of the day
00:10:34
we have to work toward the common cause
00:10:38
for the interest of the whole country so
00:10:41
I was appealing to people to say we are
00:10:43
different we may think differently and
00:10:47
but at the end of the day we have to
00:10:49
bring our energies together to for the
00:10:51
common good of the country instead of
00:10:53
breaking it apart as we have already
00:10:55
experienced so we've learned lessons
00:10:58
from that it isn't the story we are told
00:11:00
is also a life we have
00:11:03
lived
00:11:05
second is the
00:11:07
importance of accountability
00:11:12
meaning for all we aspire to achieve in
00:11:17
our lives as a
00:11:22
nation and therefore learning from
00:11:24
history as
00:11:26
well how can we not
00:11:29
say you know in our sense of Freedom
00:11:33
people doing things differently and
00:11:35
acting differently and having different
00:11:38
views at the end of the day you won't
00:11:41
achieve this Unity or you won't achieve
00:11:43
progress
00:11:44
unless in the exercise of your freedoms
00:11:48
you are able to think about the interest
00:11:50
of the other and not just thinking about
00:11:52
yourself therefore that's how it comes
00:11:56
to a point where every one of us has to
00:12:00
be responsible and we have to account to
00:12:03
each other as well as we hold ourselves
00:12:05
accountable so
00:12:07
that even in with the best
00:12:10
intentions people may have doing certain
00:12:13
things differently you don't end up
00:12:16
hurting somebody else and this again
00:12:19
originates from our own history
00:12:23
where division was the order of the day
00:12:27
and people have been
00:12:31
told to hate each other to the point
00:12:35
that people started seeing the other
00:12:40
as different and not only different they
00:12:43
should get rid of them so
00:12:47
therefore accountability
00:12:50
was important and was lacking at the
00:12:53
time so that's why I was talking about
00:12:55
accountability so that we we really
00:12:57
bring a sense of responsibility in
00:12:59
everyone the leaders and the
00:13:02
citizens and of course number three
00:13:05
thinking big uh was to relate
00:13:08
to saying first of all even with all the
00:13:13
problems you have faced in the tragedy
00:13:15
we had 21 years
00:13:20
ago seeing how we have come out of that
00:13:24
and where we are
00:13:25
today we also give a sense that nothing
00:13:28
is impossible if people set their minds
00:13:33
to doing something they want to do and
00:13:36
that is good for
00:13:39
them they will be able to achieve
00:13:42
it and and there's nothing possible to
00:13:45
achieve so ifone can be where it is now
00:13:49
with that history with all kinds of
00:13:53
challenges a small economy in the middle
00:13:56
of Africa south southern Africa right
00:13:59
there in the middle and landlocked
00:14:02
and you know almost short of everything
00:14:06
including the fact that we we were now
00:14:09
building from a very low base in which
00:14:12
we were put
00:14:14
by the genocide in 1994 and lost 1
00:14:19
million people other Millions displaced
00:14:23
imp pished and so
00:14:24
on so you know if you think about it
00:14:27
like this
00:14:29
it is easy for somebody to Despair and
00:14:32
say well we can't get out of this this
00:14:35
is impossible to change so but if you
00:14:39
start from the point that everything is
00:14:41
possible and and and think
00:14:44
Beyond these problems and and really
00:14:47
want to achieve something big you will
00:14:49
be there and that's the experience we
00:14:51
have had in the last 2 years thank you
00:14:56
um I'd like to ask you about
00:14:58
reconciliation
00:15:00
um so in in many countries in the world
00:15:03
clearly uh ethnic racial and religious
00:15:06
differences are a source of ongoing
00:15:10
discrimination
00:15:11
tension uh violence persecution and and
00:15:15
I think we often look at those
00:15:16
differences and think this can never
00:15:19
change this will be here we will be we
00:15:22
and them forever and maybe even we will
00:15:26
be we in them and maybe you can bury it
00:15:28
but it will reemerge this is The Human
00:15:31
Condition uh in Rwanda um we see
00:15:36
astonishingly for foreigners who visited
00:15:39
visited we see genocide AES and
00:15:41
survivors and their families living and
00:15:44
working side by side uh in peace and a
00:15:48
and a common refrain in Rwanda is when
00:15:51
asked about identity I am Rwandan we are
00:15:54
all Rwandan
00:15:56
so I'd like you to talk with us about
00:15:59
about the extent of reconciliation in in
00:16:03
Rwanda if today and if RW if
00:16:07
reconciliation is a process or a
00:16:10
multi-layered
00:16:12
phenomenon where is Rwanda today what is
00:16:14
this stage of or the depth of
00:16:16
reconciliation in Rwanda as you
00:16:19
understand it and perceive it how how
00:16:21
deep is this phenomenon uh where are we
00:16:24
uh in the country and then what are the
00:16:25
implications for how you
00:16:27
govern well that's a very deep and
00:16:32
complex question
00:16:33
but anyway as the situation is
00:16:39
um if
00:16:42
um let
00:16:44
me say it this
00:16:47
way in in
00:16:51
2004 when you were
00:16:55
commemorating you know remembering
00:16:57
genocide in April
00:17:01
7th there were two young people who
00:17:04
survived one of them had been picked
00:17:07
from
00:17:09
um the mass grave they had you know
00:17:13
there was a mass grave of five, people
00:17:16
you know caterpillars had come and just
00:17:20
put bodies there and covered them with
00:17:22
soil and our troops arrived just moments
00:17:26
after it had happened and picked people
00:17:29
from that M who are still
00:17:31
breathing and one young person who was
00:17:34
there you know showing you know scars of
00:17:38
that situation and so
00:17:40
on after giving testimony and the pain
00:17:43
and everything they
00:17:45
experienced so I I directly asked him I
00:17:50
said how how do you how do you manage
00:17:54
how do you really and especially this
00:17:56
was at a time when people had
00:18:00
been involved in the genocide at
00:18:02
different levels and had been in prison
00:18:05
for some time where released it was 2004
00:18:08
you said 2004 that was 10 years
00:18:11
after and uh I said how how do you
00:18:15
manage especially when they had been
00:18:19
talking about seeing people whom they
00:18:22
think are responsible for the deaths of
00:18:25
their families and so on released from
00:18:29
as which the government had done at the
00:18:32
time and a very complicated
00:18:35
process and this young person told me
00:18:39
says you know I'm sitting there at home
00:18:43
and watching people pass you know and
00:18:48
some of those are those that have just
00:18:49
been released
00:18:51
from uh prison by government and as a
00:18:56
gesture and as a way of trying to Res of
00:18:59
these differences and Reconciliation and
00:19:01
so on a complex complicated mix of
00:19:05
reconciliation and
00:19:07
Justice and he says uh I just managed to
00:19:12
live on and survive
00:19:15
because the young man looked at me and
00:19:18
says president and you are
00:19:22
leaders
00:19:24
we we trust you we have faith in you and
00:19:27
uh you tell us to do a number of things
00:19:31
to try and understand this and that you
00:19:33
are doing all this in the best interest
00:19:35
of all of us
00:19:37
so we have faith with you and that's how
00:19:39
we
00:19:40
survive this is what the young man told
00:19:43
me so that tells the whole story
00:19:48
it's we are confronted with the
00:19:50
situation here you have perpetrators you
00:19:53
have victims in hundreds of thousands
00:19:55
not just a few cases you have to deal
00:19:58
with
00:19:59
you do one thing the other side thinks
00:20:01
you're not doing enough you're not even
00:20:03
being fair you do another thing the
00:20:05
other side say thinks you're not being
00:20:07
fair you're not doing enough and so you
00:20:10
are somewhere right in the mid caught up
00:20:12
in the midd but you have to do something
00:20:14
you have you
00:20:15
have you have to attempt you have to try
00:20:18
and do something
00:20:21
so this is what we've been trying to do
00:20:23
so we we we tell people he said it's in
00:20:26
your hands there is isn't going to be a
00:20:30
solution that is going to come from
00:20:32
elsewhere that we shall deliver to you
00:20:35
it's only going to come from
00:20:38
within
00:20:40
and it's not going to be easy but it's
00:20:45
the only thing we have to do because if
00:20:47
we don't do it the situation we Face
00:20:50
ahead will be even more
00:20:53
complicated to the point that we have
00:20:55
lost 1 million and have a lot of
00:20:58
suffering still going
00:20:59
on that will be doubled or tripled if
00:21:04
you will if we
00:21:05
don't uh
00:21:07
really uh do the best we can to do that
00:21:11
so but telling them that is not enough
00:21:15
you therefore have to design a number of
00:21:18
things and
00:21:19
ways to make sure that for
00:21:24
example to some extent justices seem to
00:21:27
be done
00:21:29
the other is the daily lives that have
00:21:33
to be lived by providing Education
00:21:36
Health you know food
00:21:39
security a sense of security
00:21:42
that the other sense of security that
00:21:45
those who are
00:21:47
there someone will not just come and
00:21:50
take their lives again the way it
00:21:53
happen
00:21:55
but you we have to design and we found
00:21:58
found a way to say but you are part of
00:22:01
this ensuring your
00:22:03
security isn't going to be achieved by
00:22:06
somebody's doing it for you but you
00:22:10
participating in ensuring that you give
00:22:13
somebody's security as well as somebody
00:22:15
else is expected to give you
00:22:19
security and then as as I said deing
00:22:22
with these social economic issues that
00:22:26
at the end of the day somebody needs
00:22:29
food somebody needs education for their
00:22:31
children they need health they need this
00:22:34
must be there otherwise everything else
00:22:37
will be you
00:22:41
know people won't understand what we
00:22:44
trying to do so really this is the the
00:22:48
complex nature of the processes we have
00:22:50
had to go through it takes time so but
00:22:53
I'm
00:22:55
saying back to the very question you
00:22:57
raised I I think we have turned the
00:23:02
corner we have built a foundation a very
00:23:06
Firm Foundation but we have to build on
00:23:10
that so we are now in the phase of
00:23:14
building on the foundation I think the
00:23:16
foundation is there people understand
00:23:19
the reason to get
00:23:21
along to give and take you know to
00:23:26
understand that nothing will be Rosy
00:23:29
and people not to be satisfied all of
00:23:33
them W but there would be a balance by
00:23:37
which we we we can move forward and and
00:23:39
then get the big things that must be
00:23:42
done great thank you um so building on
00:23:47
that Foundation let me ask some
00:23:49
questions about some of the ways you
00:23:50
have and continueed to build on that
00:23:53
Foundation uh certainly another striking
00:23:58
achieve M uh for us who are a striking
00:24:01
achievement of Rwanda and particularly
00:24:04
striking for those of us who come from
00:24:06
abroad to visit Rwanda is the the extent
00:24:09
of gender equality uh in Rwanda uh
00:24:12
perhaps specifically in the parliament
00:24:15
so no country in the world has a larger
00:24:17
percentage of women in the its
00:24:19
Parliament than Rwanda does uh
00:24:22
substantially over
00:24:24
50% uh how has Rwanda achieved the
00:24:28
gender equality it it has why has it
00:24:31
been important to do so and what lessons
00:24:36
can um the rest of the world can we as
00:24:38
Business Leaders as leaders and
00:24:40
governments around the world uh learn
00:24:43
from rwanda's successes in this
00:24:46
regard um there are may be a number of
00:24:50
things to learn from here which we have
00:24:52
learned ourselves
00:24:54
by trying things in fact but has helped
00:24:59
us in many ways we are not afraid of
00:25:02
trying things
00:25:03
that may work for us even
00:25:07
for in many cases being in situations
00:25:13
where there is nothing else we can do
00:25:15
other than
00:25:17
trying uh so we try that
00:25:21
but and it stems from the whole history
00:25:26
again from at least as far as I'm
00:25:30
concerned The Liberation
00:25:33
days U trying to change situation in in
00:25:37
our own country some of us I grew up as
00:25:41
young from the time I was between 3 and
00:25:45
four years
00:25:48
old I was a refugee I grew up I grew up
00:25:51
in a refugee camp for close to 25
00:25:55
years uh in a neighboring country you
00:26:03
and I I I lost my father when I was
00:26:09
14 it's my mother who looked and we had
00:26:13
six children I'm the last born of the
00:26:16
six
00:26:17
children and it's a mother who looked
00:26:21
after
00:26:22
us all the way the time we grew
00:26:26
up now
00:26:30
what sense does it make that and and I'm
00:26:33
sure this is not just me I'm sure there
00:26:35
are many cases like that many other
00:26:38
cases this just my
00:26:41
example what sense does it make in a
00:26:45
society
00:26:47
to
00:26:49
discriminate against your mother your
00:26:51
daughter your sister your aunt it
00:26:54
doesn't make
00:26:56
sense at the same time you know Randa
00:26:59
today 52% of our population are
00:27:04
women can you imagine getting 52% of the
00:27:08
population out of the economy and and
00:27:11
you think you're doing something
00:27:12
sensible I don't think
00:27:15
so so there are issues of Rights here as
00:27:20
well it's really an issue of even human
00:27:24
rights
00:27:25
is
00:27:27
so we understood it from the beginning
00:27:31
that women as well as others have to be
00:27:35
involved in all at all levels and in all
00:27:39
activities meant for the development of
00:27:42
our country so that's how we designed
00:27:44
our you know policies and right from the
00:27:48
beginning that has been the approach
00:27:51
built into the Constitution as well and
00:27:53
even put it in the Constitution we have
00:27:56
to make sure that we don't take it like
00:27:58
you know leave it to anybody to to say
00:28:01
well I to be left with a choice to do it
00:28:04
or not to do it we thought it was
00:28:07
important that we make it an obligation
00:28:10
and that's how we put it in the
00:28:13
Constitution to make sure that women are
00:28:17
given their rightful place in our
00:28:20
society in fact there are number of
00:28:22
things we did I probably not to go into
00:28:24
all this but for example even we had
00:28:28
very old
00:28:29
laws uh that discriminated actually
00:28:32
against women to the extent that women
00:28:35
could not for example inherit
00:28:38
property so we have changed that law now
00:28:41
our women can
00:28:42
inherit
00:28:44
property as as men do and others so this
00:28:48
was trying to really bring the kind of
00:28:50
sense into the balancing that we had to
00:28:53
do so that's how and we encouraged now
00:28:56
we educated our women we have invested
00:28:58
in making sure that the health issues
00:29:01
are are given a
00:29:04
priority as well as when we have
00:29:07
educated women and when we they are
00:29:10
healthy and they are playing other roles
00:29:12
anyway as
00:29:13
usual we have encouraged them to
00:29:16
participate at all levels in decision
00:29:20
making processes so that they don't sit
00:29:25
back and somebody else makes a decision
00:29:28
that affects all of us but and
00:29:31
specifically affects women when they
00:29:32
have not had a say that's how it came
00:29:35
that we encouraged it put it in the
00:29:38
Constitution then encourag them to
00:29:39
participate and they ended up now we
00:29:42
have 64%
00:29:44
representation of women in Parliament we
00:29:47
have
00:29:48
about
00:29:51
42% in the
00:29:53
Judiciary we have women Mayors we have
00:29:59
you know women ministers the constition
00:30:02
tells us that we can't have less than
00:30:06
30% representation of women in the
00:30:08
cabinet for example of
00:30:10
ministers and so on and so forth so we
00:30:13
are seeing it happening and the benefits
00:30:16
are
00:30:17
real when women have participated in
00:30:21
decision making when they are in
00:30:23
business when they are doing different
00:30:25
things or first of
00:30:29
all that is to scare that it should be
00:30:33
and
00:30:35
uh they have different approaches they
00:30:39
bring on in the
00:30:41
processes that were missing if we didn't
00:30:45
have uh
00:30:48
women uh participating
00:30:51
so I think it's beneficial as we have
00:30:55
seen all around and maybe we
00:31:58
through sustained GDP growth of
00:32:01
11.5% and accelerated reduction of
00:32:04
poverty to less than 30% of the
00:32:06
population I I will say for those who
00:32:08
have not experienced Rwanda the the
00:32:10
specificity the the ambition of the
00:32:12
goals and the specificity of the goals
00:32:14
and the the use of metrics is is very
00:32:17
much something we see over and over
00:32:19
again in Rwanda and um and if I can
00:32:23
highlight for a quick moment the uh the
00:32:25
formula that is presented at the
00:32:26
beginning of this document for for those
00:32:28
of us who are professors and theorists
00:32:30
it's a beautifully simple and Incredibly
00:32:33
uh challenging formula and that is that
00:32:36
is presented and it says rapid economic
00:32:40
growth plus reduction of poverty to
00:32:43
under
00:32:44
30% equals better quality of life for
00:32:48
all
00:32:49
rwandans so I would like for you to at
00:32:53
least begin to discuss with us your how
00:32:56
how you envision Rwanda achieving these
00:32:58
goals continuing and Rapid economic
00:33:01
growth and and reduction of poverty and
00:33:04
specifically reduction of poverty you as
00:33:08
you know members of the audience may not
00:33:10
know of course um I believe the numbers
00:33:13
are something like 70% of the population
00:33:15
are still uh employed in subsistence and
00:33:17
and live from their subsistence farming
00:33:20
so small plots of land a real challenge
00:33:23
as you think about growing the economy
00:33:24
of moving these people off of their
00:33:27
their their plot of land
00:33:30
so thinking big as Rwanda does yes how
00:33:34
will you achieve this goal over the
00:33:35
coming
00:33:37
decade we we we we we start by
00:33:43
transforming what we have as we do other
00:33:46
things and maybe achieve what we didn't
00:33:49
have for
00:33:51
example we start with
00:33:54
agriculture which employs the majority
00:33:56
of rwandans
00:33:59
it has largely been subsistence
00:34:01
agriculture so we are now modernizing
00:34:04
that agriculture making it more
00:34:05
productive so
00:34:07
that the very large population involved
00:34:10
in
00:34:12
that gain more from it than has been the
00:34:15
case before and that is already
00:34:17
happening we've seen that in
00:34:20
fact in the comment area
00:34:23
mentioned when we lifted 1 million
00:34:26
people out of
00:34:28
poverty it was just
00:34:31
between the Year
00:34:34
2006 to
00:34:37
2011 and in fact these gains came from
00:34:41
the improvements we have seen in
00:34:45
agriculture uh better seed
00:34:49
varieties available inputs better
00:34:53
methods
00:34:55
technology
00:34:56
uh and therefore more productivity as
00:34:59
you have seen and and uh finding markets
00:35:03
for the what is being produced both
00:35:06
domestically and across
00:35:09
borders so this is this is one part so
00:35:13
is what we have can we realize the full
00:35:17
potential we looked at Coffee which is
00:35:20
produced
00:35:22
by Rwanda one of the the best coffees
00:35:26
you have in the world if not to the best
00:35:28
as we know it across the
00:35:31
world make it more productive beneficial
00:35:34
to citizens who had earlier on given up
00:35:37
actually on growing coffee because there
00:35:39
wasn't much coming from it now they
00:35:42
involved in growing coffee and they add
00:35:44
value they wash the coffee they produced
00:35:48
before we export it we are now beginning
00:35:51
to roast our
00:35:52
coffee and so on so farmers are
00:35:54
benefiting to that tea the same thing
00:35:58
and so on anything that has been
00:36:00
involving the biggest part of of
00:36:04
population we focused on it then beyond
00:36:08
that we started focusing on other areas
00:36:11
where again we started from a very Bas
00:36:14
but we know we have so we
00:36:17
build uh and and revered
00:36:21
our the institutions have created the
00:36:24
good governance thereof and and
00:36:29
so started investing say
00:36:33
in uh Financial Services you
00:36:39
ICT high-end tourism
00:36:43
MH and so on so forth the these are
00:36:45
things that have moved very fast and
00:36:48
grown very fast and and bringing a lot
00:36:51
of benefits to the people
00:36:54
and as well as to the country so this is
00:36:58
how we are managing it and we are
00:37:00
finding that actually things are moving
00:37:02
faster than we even had
00:37:05
expected
00:37:07
uh but the the find creating an
00:37:11
environment that is conducive to doing
00:37:14
business we had to attend to
00:37:17
that uh Safety and Security for people
00:37:22
and for Investments they make in the
00:37:24
country all these things have added up
00:37:27
and helped us
00:37:29
accelerate
00:37:30
achieving the economic
00:37:33
growth but not just impressive economic
00:37:36
growth that economic growth that is
00:37:39
contributing to development that is
00:37:41
inclusive because we have made sure that
00:37:44
Rand are involved in all these
00:37:47
activities thank you uh let me let me
00:37:50
ask I think one more question before
00:37:52
I'll uh we'll take a few questions from
00:37:54
the audience um so as as you know well
00:37:59
um many many foreign journalists and
00:38:01
observers are critical of limits on Free
00:38:03
Speech in Rwanda and laws in Rwanda
00:38:07
prohibit prohibit
00:38:09
divisionism uh divisionism is spreading
00:38:12
ideas likely to incite conflict based on
00:38:15
ethnic Regional racial religious
00:38:17
language or other divisive
00:38:19
characteristics and there are also laws
00:38:21
in Rwanda that that prohibit defamation
00:38:24
of the head of state or other public
00:38:26
officials and so i' I'd like you to not
00:38:31
um to help us understand how you think
00:38:34
about the the benefits and drawbacks of
00:38:37
free speech and dissent for Rwanda um
00:38:41
you know what are the the benefits and
00:38:42
drawbacks of free speech and descent uh
00:38:44
in the country as a whole for example in
00:38:46
the press and social media um and if we
00:38:49
have time I I'm mindful of the time also
00:38:51
in your own
00:38:53
cabinet well I I think that are
00:38:58
a lot of
00:39:00
contradictions in what has been said in
00:39:03
this area about
00:39:05
Rwanda uh and disregard of the real
00:39:08
facts on the
00:39:10
ground
00:39:11
now let me say say
00:39:15
this I I use Twitter we
00:39:20
know and for example somebody said
00:39:25
something about me yes
00:39:28
and I answered back by clarifying what
00:39:31
it was so went back and forth and
00:39:33
actually this person happened to be a
00:39:35
journalist in the
00:39:38
UK of course as we continued
00:39:42
arguing this very journalist who wants
00:39:45
freedom of speech to be
00:39:48
exercised started complaining about how
00:39:51
I am pushing
00:39:53
back so and they asked this Jour I said
00:39:55
look you have a you you you want people
00:39:59
to express
00:40:01
themselves and that's how you manage to
00:40:03
talk say things about me they were you
00:40:06
did but at the same time in
00:40:08
this freedom to of free speech you don't
00:40:12
want me to tell you my views are what I
00:40:14
think myself so is is Free Speech going
00:40:19
to be for you and not for
00:40:22
me because this and and this has been
00:40:25
almost a constant throughout so what is
00:40:28
it that prevents me a user of social
00:40:33
media giving My Views even as president
00:40:37
I have
00:40:39
views I'm not dumb I'm
00:40:42
just so but as long as you can push back
00:40:46
and say what you want to say I should be
00:40:48
able to say what I want to say
00:40:51
absolutely now same thing it happens
00:40:55
even within our country I'm actually
00:40:59
exchanging debating discussing with the
00:41:01
people on social
00:41:04
media
00:41:06
so how this comes that we don't allow
00:41:09
freedom of speech in Rwanda doesn't show
00:41:13
in this that happens every day
00:41:18
absolutely
00:41:20
uh
00:41:22
so now there's another thing um there
00:41:26
have been a lot of Service international
00:41:29
service done by independent
00:41:31
institutions gallop and all kinds of
00:41:34
things if you you look in the reports
00:41:39
that have come up in the last 3 five
00:41:43
years you see something
00:41:46
interesting they came and carried out
00:41:49
surveys across thousands of people in
00:41:52
Rwanda on their own we didn't even know
00:41:54
about it in the report
00:41:59
they talk the the people saying that
00:42:03
they are free to elect their leaders to
00:42:08
say whatever they want to say it was
00:42:12
86% right now but what is interesting
00:42:16
and revealing of the point I'm talking
00:42:18
about is in that report if you read it
00:42:21
carefully there is where they say
00:42:25
somebody you can see the writer is
00:42:28
intends to bias the reader he
00:42:31
says
00:42:33
although
00:42:36
Rwanda uh
00:42:39
is no
00:42:43
authoritarian you know this starts by
00:42:45
telling people it's you know the
00:42:48
leadership is authoritarian right and
00:42:50
then goes ahead to say people who said
00:42:53
they are free to express themselves to
00:42:58
are 85
00:43:01
86% but you can see he starts by saying
00:43:04
no it's authoritarian sure right so he
00:43:06
wants people first of all to read
00:43:09
that the following findings they made
00:43:12
themselves should not should be
00:43:14
disregarded what should be taken is what
00:43:17
he has stated that this is an
00:43:19
authoritarian situation so I I I think
00:43:24
Rwanda has has two sides to it there is
00:43:27
what Randa is and has been and wants to
00:43:31
be yes there is another Wonder in the
00:43:35
eyes of other
00:43:36
people who want it to be or expect it to
00:43:41
be something else and they make that
00:43:45
effect that's the situation you have to
00:43:47
deal with so your so your argument is
00:43:49
that in fact there is substantial free
00:43:51
speech and dissent yes there is and much
00:43:53
of it playing out in social media I'm
00:43:55
sure you you have uh been there by the
00:43:58
way even on radios we have so many FM
00:44:02
radios free and and you need to listen
00:44:05
to what they saying in French in English
00:44:08
in Kenya
00:44:09
Randa talking about the president they
00:44:12
where they want we haven't shut these
00:44:14
radios they still operating nobody has
00:44:17
been punished for it so it doesn't
00:44:20
really add up to some of these things
00:44:26
being
00:44:28
[Music]
