00:00:00
the technology is just fine. It's great
00:00:02
and only getting better. In fact, AI
00:00:05
today, this very second we you and the
00:00:07
three of us are talking, is the worst
00:00:09
it's ever going to be. Tomorrow it's
00:00:11
going to be better. The challenge has
00:00:12
been for us is the technology is
00:00:14
improving exponentially. Us humans, the
00:00:17
way we work, the way we approach and
00:00:18
tackle problems is only sort of
00:00:20
improving linearly. It's a little bit
00:00:22
like our washing machines at home. They
00:00:24
have 57 programs and we use hot and
00:00:25
cold. Make sure you have the tools to
00:00:27
give people to use, but how do you take
00:00:29
the whole horse to water and get it to
00:00:31
drink? How do you actually incentivize,
00:00:33
inspire, and actually create the
00:00:36
the things where they want to lean in
00:00:37
and use these technologies even when
00:00:40
they're not perfect?
00:00:41
>> Hello and welcome. You're listening to
00:00:43
Marketing Matters on the Wharton Podcast
00:00:45
Network. This is our weekly podcast
00:00:48
where we analyze the latest in
00:00:50
advertising, marketing, customer
00:00:52
behavior, new product launches,
00:00:54
retailing, branding, anything marketing.
00:00:57
I'm Barbara Kahn, the Patty and JH Baker
00:00:59
Professor of Marketing, and I'm joined
00:01:01
by my co-host, Americus Reed, the
00:01:04
Whitney M. Young Jr. Professor of
00:01:06
Marketing and the Brand Identity
00:01:08
Theorist.
00:01:09
And today, we are very lucky to be
00:01:12
joined by Joshua Spanier, who's the Vice
00:01:16
President of AI and Marketing Strategy
00:01:19
at Google. I'm sure everybody's heard of
00:01:21
Google. That's the global tech company
00:01:24
that shapes the future of marketing
00:01:26
through AI, data, and large-scale
00:01:29
digital platforms like Search, YouTube,
00:01:32
and Pixel. Joshua is a senior marketing
00:01:36
executive at Google, and he spent over
00:01:38
14 years there and overseen more than
00:01:41
$40 billion in marketing spend.
00:01:45
As Vice President, he has led the
00:01:47
integration of AI across global
00:01:49
marketing operations, and he founded
00:01:51
Google's central measurement and
00:01:53
analytics function, which I'm sure he's
00:01:57
being he's using to demonstrate the
00:01:59
impact of all that money he's spending
00:02:02
in marketing. Can you show that's the
00:02:04
point of it? Anyway, Joshua, welcome to
00:02:06
our show. Hi Joshua. Hey guys, great to
00:02:09
be here. Thanks for so much for having
00:02:11
me on the show.
00:02:12
Of course. So you've been at Google for
00:02:14
14 years.
00:02:16
Have you seen a lot of change or
00:02:20
That's a loaded question, Barbara.
00:02:23
I
00:02:24
you know, I'm a very loyal guy. My I I I
00:02:27
I've been married to the same woman
00:02:28
since I been with the same woman since
00:02:31
20 my college sweetheart since we were
00:02:32
21
00:02:34
and continuing to this day and of course
00:02:35
I'm only 34 right now but
00:02:39
massage those numbers down and
00:02:42
I've worked at three companies in my
00:02:43
life and Google has been the longest of
00:02:45
my career. It's it's almost 15 years now
00:02:47
and
00:02:48
time has flown by and I feel like I've
00:02:51
had a
00:02:52
at least that sort of sidecar motorbike
00:02:55
to some really big important moments in
00:02:57
the technology space and the marketing
00:02:58
space.
00:02:59
I won't pretend
00:03:01
I'm a marketer and Google is an
00:03:02
engineering company, right? We build
00:03:04
products which
00:03:05
change the world for sure but as a
00:03:07
marketer being close to that is really
00:03:08
fun and I've seen a lot of cool stuff.
00:03:11
Love that. I'm going to jump in Barbara.
00:03:12
Apologies. I have to get this point out
00:03:15
here while I still remember it. Joshua,
00:03:18
thank you for that intro. It's amazing.
00:03:20
I want you to start with your point of
00:03:22
view on AI. There's I mean it's
00:03:25
everywhere. Is it are we hyped? Are we
00:03:28
over hyping it? Give me your point of
00:03:30
view, your perspective
00:03:32
in terms and we're going to get into
00:03:33
this in a much deeper way when Barbara
00:03:35
starts to asking her very pointed
00:03:36
questions. Uh but I want you to I want
00:03:39
you to lay the context for me because as
00:03:41
a person who is like learning about all
00:03:43
these things and feeling overwhelmed,
00:03:46
give me your point of view broadly
00:03:47
speaking about how we as a society
00:03:50
should be thinking about artificial
00:03:52
intelligence.
00:03:54
So,
00:03:55
I'm speaking to you as a marketer and
00:03:57
I'm speaking to you from my personal
00:03:58
view here because I'm not representing
00:04:00
the entire company's view on what AI is.
00:04:03
That mention of the word overwhelmed is
00:04:06
pretty accurate. I'm very overwhelmed as
00:04:08
a marketer, right? I work at Google. We
00:04:10
have resources. We have some of the
00:04:11
smartest, brightest people in the world.
00:04:13
We have most amazing AI technology and
00:04:15
it's overwhelming for me. I can't
00:04:17
imagine how it is for everyone out there
00:04:19
in the world, right? It's just a huge
00:04:21
amount of change.
00:04:23
I think two things can be true at once,
00:04:25
though. It is a massive fundamental
00:04:27
shift in the way the world is going to
00:04:29
work at the broadest level and down to
00:04:31
every part of marketing.
00:04:33
And
00:04:35
human beings are human beings. We crave
00:04:38
companionship. We campaign. We we we
00:04:41
crave connection. We all want good
00:04:43
Wi-Fi. We just want to be able to live
00:04:45
our lives and and and do so as humans.
00:04:47
And so, the transition moment was so
00:04:49
profound. Yes, AI has changed
00:04:51
everything, but we still want stories.
00:04:53
We still want entertainment. We still
00:04:54
want connection. We still want love.
00:04:56
That doesn't change and AI ultimately is
00:04:58
a tool. It's a tool to enable better
00:05:01
marketing. It's a tool to create new
00:05:03
businesses. It's a tool to do all sorts
00:05:04
of things. But us humans still want
00:05:08
those core things. That's not changing
00:05:10
even in a world with AI.
00:05:12
Yeah, I want to add to that because that
00:05:14
is that's definitely the way I've
00:05:16
started to think about it myself. It's
00:05:18
like if you think about AI replacing
00:05:21
humans, etc. And all these things that
00:05:23
people are afraid of, you got to go down
00:05:25
to the basic core and it's like, well,
00:05:27
what do humans want from life? You know,
00:05:29
like I think about the big principle of
00:05:32
marketing 101 that we teach in our core
00:05:34
courses is the principle of customer
00:05:36
value. So, you kind of have to figure
00:05:38
out what is it the customers want? You
00:05:40
know, give all the rest of the stuff to
00:05:42
AI to do and then just kind of figure
00:05:44
out how we can make the world a better
00:05:46
place. So, how do you decide what
00:05:49
customer value is?
00:05:51
And before you answer that, how do you
00:05:52
decide what customer value is from
00:05:54
Barbara? I just want to say, guys, thank
00:05:56
you very much
00:05:57
for that wonderful, very humane opening.
00:06:01
Joshua, your voice, by the way, your
00:06:03
accent is soothing me. It's calming me
00:06:05
down because I'm Barbara, I'm panicked.
00:06:07
I don't know what's going on, but I do
00:06:10
What talk about this customer value
00:06:13
orientation that Barbara's pointing us
00:06:14
to.
00:06:18
I'm going to ask I'm going to answer
00:06:19
that question in just a second. But
00:06:21
first, I want to give a little bit of
00:06:22
wider context as I see it. I spent 15
00:06:25
years at Google, near enough. I spent
00:06:27
the last 3 years as part of the core
00:06:29
team helping the
00:06:30
Google marketing organization embrace
00:06:32
this AI moment. And I could talk a lot
00:06:34
about the things which have worked and
00:06:35
which haven't worked. And what I'm
00:06:37
seeing right now is that we're sort of
00:06:39
at the end of the beginning. We're at
00:06:41
the end of the beginning of this AI
00:06:43
transformation. And that first era, the
00:06:46
first 3 years of this AI moment, really
00:06:48
has been defined, as I see it, by
00:06:51
honestly, fear, uncertainty, and
00:06:54
efficiency. It's been about how can I do
00:06:57
more for less? How can I get more for
00:06:59
less? And that fear you that that where
00:07:02
do you mention here, letting people go
00:07:04
and having AI replace humans was like
00:07:06
being the talk of the town, I guess, in
00:07:08
the fear for the last 3 years. And what
00:07:10
I'm seeing from smart CMOs and what I'm
00:07:12
seeing from smart marketing leaders and
00:07:13
business leaders now is the notion of
00:07:15
actually AI can actually rethink and
00:07:18
redo ways of working in its entirety.
00:07:21
It's not about just making us 20, 30,
00:07:23
40% more efficient from the ways we used
00:07:25
to work. It's what can we build with AI
00:07:28
going forward? And so, the way I'd
00:07:30
articulate this is everyone inside of
00:07:32
Google marketing is a genius, frankly.
00:07:34
They're all these Harvard, Stanford,
00:07:36
Oxford, MIT, and Wharton
00:07:40
Sorry.
00:07:42
geniuses. I'm 100%, right? But they're a
00:07:44
little bit like Tony Stark um out of the
00:07:47
Marvel movies, right? Tony Stark is a
00:07:49
genius. You put Tony Stark into an Iron
00:07:52
Man suit, he becomes a superhero. And
00:07:54
what I'm saying and what we're really
00:07:55
exploring is how if we can give our
00:07:58
teams, our geniuses the equivalent of an
00:08:01
AI Iron Man suit, they can multiply
00:08:03
their impact. They can actually do
00:08:05
things they've never done before and the
00:08:07
whole conversation shifts from one of
00:08:10
fear and certainty to impact and
00:08:12
opportunity. And that's been the really
00:08:14
exciting thing. Focusing on the impact
00:08:16
we can have.
00:08:18
So, that's one point of view, which is
00:08:21
this idea that it's a tool, it should
00:08:23
augment, it should make humans who are
00:08:25
good at things better at those things
00:08:28
and the and the AI provides that tool.
00:08:31
But another way of looking at it, which
00:08:32
is kind of what I was trying to get at
00:08:35
also with that question, is
00:08:37
aren't there some things that humans
00:08:39
want to do and some things that they
00:08:41
want to pass off to HR to AI to do
00:08:45
better? And have you given any thought
00:08:48
to that notion of like what what are
00:08:51
things that humans want like want to do?
00:08:54
You know, like I would rather associate
00:08:56
with another human probably than with an
00:08:58
AI. I think that's the case with an AI
00:09:01
companion or something like that. Or
00:09:03
have you given any thought to that
00:09:05
notion? What is inherently human value
00:09:08
and what are things that AI
00:09:11
could be offloaded on and we don't ever
00:09:12
have to worry about again?
00:09:14
Well, see, I I Barbara, I see the
00:09:16
professor coming out cuz you're you're
00:09:17
operating at at at a theoretical
00:09:19
philosophical level, which may be beyond
00:09:21
me. Here's what I will say.
00:09:23
Inside of Google marketing, we have done
00:09:25
for a decade and a half surveys of what
00:09:28
are you working on? Where are you
00:09:30
spending the most amount of your time?
00:09:32
What are your deepest frustrations? We
00:09:34
have this thing called Google Geist,
00:09:35
where collect every year and then every
00:09:38
week now we have these surveys go out,
00:09:40
and we try to identify where our
00:09:41
marketers are frustrated. And one of the
00:09:44
things we've been looking at is
00:09:46
where AI can solve with some of those
00:09:48
frustrations and those pain points. And
00:09:50
as a broad general rule,
00:09:53
I'll I'll use very broad numbers. This
00:09:55
isn't Google, this is for life.
00:09:56
30% of or 33% of what you do in your
00:09:59
life you love.
00:10:00
33% you hate, right? Filling out your
00:10:02
taxes. And then 33% in the middle, which
00:10:05
is like indeterminate. Ah, I just got to
00:10:06
get done, it's not terrible, it's not
00:10:07
the worst, right? Um what we are trying
00:10:10
to do is
00:10:13
what we're constantly trying to do at
00:10:14
the management level is like, how do we
00:10:16
move people out of that bottom third
00:10:19
into the middle third and then into the
00:10:20
top third, right? And what we see is so
00:10:23
much of what we do in marketing,
00:10:25
media authorization forms, uh purchase
00:10:28
requests, um compliance tasks, uh
00:10:31
trafficking, um resizing, transcreation,
00:10:34
these are tasks which no one went to
00:10:37
Wharton to actually learn how to do
00:10:39
well. It's the bureaucracy, they're not
00:10:41
fun, they're they're they're boring,
00:10:42
right? It's a little bit like and I I'm
00:10:44
I'm not a huge car person, but
00:10:47
a few people lament the passing of the
00:10:49
manual gear stick, but for
00:10:51
majority of us, the the
00:10:53
Audi's Tiptronic gear changing system is
00:10:56
better than we could do it, and it makes
00:10:58
driving more fun. That's what we're
00:11:00
seeing with AI, and so our focus is
00:11:02
really on reduce the friction, reduce
00:11:04
the frustration, and actually unleash
00:11:06
the human creativity and ingenuity on
00:11:08
the things which actually matter to our
00:11:10
marketers. So, we 100% see our marketers
00:11:12
saying, "I would love never have to
00:11:14
anecdate myself. Back in the day I was a
00:11:16
TV buyer, and I used to send faxes when
00:11:19
I lived in the UK, growing up in London,
00:11:21
to the ITV and Channel 4 and Channel 5
00:11:25
saying, 'These are the schedules of
00:11:27
spots we wanted.' And I lived by the fax
00:11:29
machine.
00:11:30
What's that one away? That was my life
00:11:31
was much better. We're seeing that again
00:11:33
and again and again. Help people do the
00:11:35
things they actually are passionate
00:11:36
about and engage about and can make
00:11:37
better. That's where AI's really helping
00:11:40
us actually do some fun things.
00:11:42
Can I give you an example?
00:11:44
Can I give you an example of something
00:11:45
we did creatively which I think is
00:11:46
really fun?
00:11:48
I feel like a lot of the AI conversation
00:11:49
gets quite theoretical. So here here is
00:11:51
a
00:11:52
This is actually uh close to 2 years
00:11:54
ago. So this isn't a brand new thing,
00:11:56
but uh we
00:11:58
have our Pixel phone, which is uh uh uh
00:12:01
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:02
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:03
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:04
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:05
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:06
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:07
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:08
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:09
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
00:12:10
uh uh uh uh uh uh We got our creative
00:12:12
teams in a room. We got our social teams
00:12:14
and digital teams in a room. We did it
00:12:15
on a Friday and a Saturday. They agreed
00:12:17
to do it on a Saturday. And we asked
00:12:19
people on social media, where should
00:12:21
Pixel iPhone go on an adventure? All
00:12:23
right? People sent us their ideas, and
00:12:26
then using generative AI, using Google's
00:12:29
uh near Nanobots and a VO and those
00:12:30
capabilities, we made 300 customized
00:12:34
adventures of Pixel and iPhone going in
00:12:37
the world, and we sent them back to each
00:12:39
one of those people who had a request
00:12:41
for it. Those people have been both been
00:12:42
pre-vetted and also had a significant
00:12:44
following. If you receive an uh uh uh uh
00:12:46
uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh 2 hours after
00:12:47
asking for it, you get a customized
00:12:49
video from Google say, here's how Pixel
00:12:52
and iPhone are interacted living on
00:12:53
YouTube. It's fun, and they shared it.
00:12:56
And the reason I talk about this is
00:12:58
it changes the dynamic. It's not fear of
00:13:00
Google or fear of sorry, it's not fear
00:13:02
of technology replacing a job. It's oh,
00:13:04
I can make something that was impossible
00:13:06
previously. That's the exciting part.
00:13:08
And our teams, when they can see they
00:13:10
can be more creative, have more
00:13:11
imagination, can do more things, it's
00:13:14
super fun. And I I um it's been really
00:13:17
exciting seeing that, and that's what we
00:13:18
began been striving to. How do we help
00:13:20
our teams embrace this notion, this
00:13:23
opportunity that AI can help me do
00:13:24
things that I previously couldn't in fun
00:13:26
ways, and drives business outcomes.
00:13:29
That's a very good example. Creativity.
00:13:31
I like that cuz that's what I was going
00:13:33
to ask. How do you keep creativity
00:13:35
instead of getting AI smushed? You know,
00:13:38
like when when I have people, my
00:13:40
students send in essays that they've
00:13:42
written with AI, you can tell. You know,
00:13:46
there really is this kind of smushiness
00:13:48
to it, this bland flatness to it. But,
00:13:51
if you start with the creative human,
00:13:53
and then augment that, if you start with
00:13:55
that as a point of view, I can see how
00:13:57
you can kind of get around Yeah. And to
00:13:59
your to your point, Barbara, the
00:14:01
research that's coming out of Wharton
00:14:02
right now is very clear on this point
00:14:04
that sort of to your point, Barbara, the
00:14:07
idea of kind of mindlessly using these
00:14:09
tools produces things with very little
00:14:12
diversity of creativity and thought.
00:14:14
>> Yep. Right? Obviously, because it's
00:14:15
coming from the same inputs. So, looking
00:14:18
for ways to unlock the human potential
00:14:21
is is a beautiful concept, and really
00:14:23
trying to think about it that way as
00:14:25
opposed to just a pure utilitarian
00:14:27
argument around trying to be 5x
00:14:30
productive on the joyless things That's
00:14:32
what we do. Let me let me let me build
00:14:34
on this cuz
00:14:36
I I I my title is VP of AI and marketing
00:14:38
strategy, whatever that means, right?
00:14:41
I was going to ask you. Yes. I got I
00:14:43
love that title, by the way.
00:14:46
For the for the last 3 years, I've been
00:14:48
helping Google marketing transition and
00:14:49
embrace these AI tools, and the single
00:14:52
biggest learning that I've had, that
00:14:53
we've had, is the technology is just
00:14:56
fine. It's great, and only getting
00:14:58
better. In fact, AI today, this very
00:15:01
second we you this way of us are
00:15:03
talking, is the worst it's ever going to
00:15:04
be. By tomorrow, it's going to be
00:15:06
better. In 6 months, it'll be amazingly
00:15:08
better. In a year,
00:15:10
exponentially better. The challenge has
00:15:12
been for us is the technology is
00:15:14
improving exponentially. Us humans, the
00:15:16
way we work, the way we approach and
00:15:18
tackle problems, is only sort of
00:15:20
improving linearly. It's a little bit
00:15:22
like our washing machines at home,
00:15:23
right? They have 57 programs and we use
00:15:25
hot and cold, right? That's
00:15:30
So, everything that I've been doing
00:15:31
>> lot even worse. Yeah. Everything that I
00:15:34
Not everything, but a lot of what I've
00:15:36
been doing is yes, make sure you have
00:15:37
the tools to give people to use, but how
00:15:39
do you get take the horse to water and
00:15:41
get it to drink? How do you actually
00:15:43
incentivize, inspire, and actually
00:15:45
create the the the things where they
00:15:47
want to lean in and use these
00:15:49
technologies Interesting.
00:15:50
>> even when they're not perfect. And
00:15:51
that's a critical piece of this. And one
00:15:52
of the mindset shifts is we've all had
00:15:55
that experience. We use an AI tool, it's
00:15:57
not great the first time you use it. So,
00:15:59
you go, "Ah, come back in 6 months." But
00:16:01
if you don't use it for 6 months, by the
00:16:03
time that 6 months rolls around and you
00:16:05
come look at it again, someone else
00:16:06
who's been practicing even with the
00:16:08
imperfect tool has got so much stronger
00:16:10
and better at it.
00:16:11
So, so
00:16:13
>> Go on.
00:16:13
>> ask you a pedestrian question about
00:16:15
this? Like, I've been talking to a lot
00:16:17
of students and young people and they
00:16:18
really embrace AI. I mean, they just
00:16:21
have no problem thinking creatively and
00:16:23
asking them all sorts of questions that
00:16:25
it shocks me that they would think of to
00:16:27
ask a tool. And to your point, if they
00:16:30
come out with that human face on it,
00:16:32
then the AI answer is, you know,
00:16:34
augmenting what what they're inputting,
00:16:36
which I think is a nice way to think
00:16:38
about how to keep the creativity alive.
00:16:41
And I don't know if you're prepared to
00:16:42
ask, so if you want to deflect this
00:16:43
question, that's fine if you don't want
00:16:45
to answer this. But one of the questions
00:16:46
people ask me is like, as we more and
00:16:49
more accept these AI tools, how are we
00:16:52
going to choose which AI tool to use or
00:16:54
how are we differentiating
00:16:57
among the different choices we have? And
00:16:59
clearly this is where we're going to
00:17:00
start spending money. You get addicted
00:17:02
to an AI tool. 100%.
00:17:04
>> Maybe it's free now, but you know you're
00:17:06
going to pay for it eventually.
00:17:08
>> Or
00:17:08
it may just disappear. Right.
00:17:10
>> which one? Or is there a differentiation
00:17:13
in the market? I mean, can you give us
00:17:15
some structure on that.
00:17:16
>> Yeah. Um, I
00:17:19
So, we spend within Google marketing
00:17:21
significant effort and and resources
00:17:24
trying to get people to embrace and use
00:17:26
Gemini and its suite of the suite of
00:17:28
models we have within Google. From Nano
00:17:30
Banana and V O and and Flow and all the
00:17:32
other Notebook L M. These are remarkable
00:17:34
tools. I do think this may be one of the
00:17:37
largest marketing challenges of the next
00:17:39
two or three or four years because
00:17:41
um
00:17:43
at a certain point the technology is
00:17:45
like magic but it comes
00:17:46
indistinguishable. But I would argue
00:17:48
that that car marketing, like what is
00:17:49
the difference truly between a BMW, a
00:17:51
Lexus, and a Mercedes? And yet, those
00:17:54
brands do spend a lot of money and
00:17:57
actually do find a way to articulate
00:17:59
that. So, it's on me and on us Google
00:18:01
marketing to help define the Gemini
00:18:04
suite of tools such that you believe in
00:18:07
what they do and what they have. There
00:18:08
are certain capabilities. We had a
00:18:10
moment with Nano Banana, our image
00:18:12
generation technology, where that where
00:18:14
it it effectively went viral. We had
00:18:16
billions of hundreds of millions of
00:18:18
assets
00:18:19
of generative assets being made with
00:18:21
Nano Banana in a very short period of
00:18:23
time. You do have breakout moments with
00:18:25
these tools which can help set the stage
00:18:27
as it were and get people using them.
00:18:29
But, what you're identifying, Barbara,
00:18:31
is a long-term marketing
00:18:33
I don't want to say the word war, but
00:18:35
it's going to be a grind because we get
00:18:37
used to ways of working and then we sort
00:18:39
of stick with them. I I want to ask a
00:18:41
question to build on Barbara's point
00:18:42
here, Joshua. I love that point. I'm
00:18:45
just I'm struggling and
00:18:47
overwhelmed. But then things happen in
00:18:49
the marketplace. For example, Sora just
00:18:50
disappears suddenly.
00:18:52
Uh,
00:18:53
and it's like the marketplace is
00:18:54
recalibrating and shifting and all that
00:18:56
stuff. What is And and and maybe what
00:18:59
I'm hearing you say is that this is
00:19:00
going to eventually end up being a
00:19:02
winner take most uh, type of market.
00:19:05
Uh, and if that's true, like what is
00:19:07
Google doing to help us as consumers
00:19:11
perceive more value in terms of
00:19:14
interacting with Google products.
00:19:17
And and
00:19:19
and and how are we going to you know how
00:19:21
are you guys going to help us along this
00:19:23
journey?
00:19:24
Uh and that that's question number one.
00:19:26
Question number two, I want to get your
00:19:27
reaction to this too, Barbara. Give me
00:19:28
your thoughts, Joshua, on the the
00:19:30
regulatory implications here. Right? So,
00:19:33
you were mentioning early on I cuz it
00:19:35
made me laugh because I was like, yeah,
00:19:36
I remember when I first jumped on uh
00:19:38
these tools and I would create pictures
00:19:40
of myself with six fingers. And suddenly
00:19:42
now I almost can't tell the difference
00:19:44
between these incredible tools, which
00:19:46
reaches a point where at some point
00:19:48
there has to be some rules around this
00:19:50
that come from somewhere. So, can you
00:19:52
talk a little bit about in addition to
00:19:54
Barbara's question, can you talk a
00:19:55
little bit about like your point of view
00:19:57
on how you help us
00:20:00
as consumers bring us along this
00:20:01
journey, but also establish for us
00:20:03
parameters of how these things should
00:20:04
and or should not be used? I don't know
00:20:07
that it's a winner takes most at this
00:20:08
stage. I think the creativity
00:20:11
uh is in in in the AI space around the
00:20:13
world is truly remarkable. And and the
00:20:15
way I the way I articulate this is
00:20:18
back in the day we all used to carry
00:20:20
around those little HP and Kodak point
00:20:22
and shoot cameras, right? The digital
00:20:23
cameras. And we thought they were great,
00:20:24
and they were great. And then the cell
00:20:27
phone camera got good enough that all of
00:20:29
a sudden you didn't need this. And that
00:20:31
was the challenging for HP and Kodak in
00:20:33
that moment. However, the Cambrian
00:20:36
explosion of creativity in business out
00:20:39
of that out of the cell phone camera you
00:20:40
had Uber, you had Google Lens, you had
00:20:43
um Snapchat, you've had DoorDash, you've
00:20:46
had all these myriad and myriad and
00:20:48
myriad of businesses emerge out of the
00:20:50
cell phone camera being good enough. I
00:20:53
think we are at the Cambrian explosion
00:20:55
space
00:20:56
phase of AI. So, I think the winner
00:20:58
takes most is a is a misnomer because
00:21:01
the explosion is going to is going to
00:21:02
happen. I That's what I think. That's my
00:21:04
general theory. That's fair. Uh you
00:21:07
asked the question about um the
00:21:09
regulatory sort of posture. Look, uh
00:21:12
this isn't getting it gets into sort of
00:21:14
difficult territory to talk about, fair.
00:21:16
Is what I'd say. Sundar, our CEO, has
00:21:18
talked about Google being bold and
00:21:20
responsible. Bold and responsible. He's
00:21:22
repeated that phrase a lot, and we
00:21:24
around the world do everything we can to
00:21:26
protect consumer privacy, protect
00:21:28
everyone's uh uh
00:21:30
operate in a way which actually is
00:21:32
responsible and careful. And that's why
00:21:34
in some cases we haven't rushed to
00:21:35
market with certain products or done
00:21:37
things because we're actually being bold
00:21:39
and responsible. I'll leave it there
00:21:41
because I I don't want to get into
00:21:43
more uh sort of complicated areas. Uh
00:21:46
there was a third question. I don't
00:21:47
remember what it was though. Gemini
00:21:49
Nano Banana Gemini Yeah. There's a whole
00:21:52
suite to Barbara's point. There's a
00:21:53
suite of things, customer value. How do
00:21:55
we choose? How do you get in front of us
00:21:57
and convince us that Gemini and Nano
00:21:59
Banana is better than X, Y, and Z and
00:22:01
all of these other things? Yeah, so so
00:22:03
so you know, you you also said about
00:22:05
Marcus that you're you're kind of
00:22:05
intimidated and scared by all this. And
00:22:07
so so I'm going to come I'm going to
00:22:08
answer your question in a slightly
00:22:10
roundabout way.
00:22:11
I think like Nike, you just have to do
00:22:13
it, right?
00:22:15
You just have to do it. That means you
00:22:17
need to and this is true true of
00:22:18
everyone on this call who's listening to
00:22:20
this. You need to set dedicate an hour a
00:22:22
day or an hour a week to just exploring
00:22:25
in this space safely in a way
00:22:28
>> you can learn doing that. It really is
00:22:29
because the AI helps you learn. It's
00:22:32
unbelievable. So so Google has a new uh
00:22:35
music generation uh uh model called
00:22:37
Lyra. Um I think it's Lyra 3 now. I hope
00:22:40
I said that name right. I'd be
00:22:41
embarrassed if I didn't, but
00:22:44
a couple of weekends ago I spent some
00:22:45
time with some friends. We were having
00:22:47
drinks, and I pulled it up, and we ended
00:22:48
up making rap songs and country music
00:22:51
songs about the events that had happened
00:22:54
in our week. It was so fun. It was it
00:22:56
was fun. We we were giggling and and and
00:22:58
having a great time. My kids started
00:22:59
listening in as well because they were
00:23:01
in the house. And I guess the the point
00:23:03
was is I'm using AI in a very
00:23:05
sophisticated way. But from the to me it
00:23:08
just feels like I'm just making some fun
00:23:09
songs. It was just a great thing.
00:23:12
I think we can overthink this somehow
00:23:14
that we're not doing it enough or when
00:23:15
it's too hard.
00:23:17
I will say if you go on to Google,
00:23:19
remember Google search? I do. If you go
00:23:21
on to Google search and just ask look
00:23:23
for uh
00:23:24
Google AI spites. We have in Google on
00:23:27
YouTube and on various websites to think
00:23:29
with Google, a whole variety of training
00:23:31
materials specifically designed for
00:23:33
quote-unquote regular people. Just
00:23:36
simple ways and these are three to seven
00:23:38
minute video lessons. Each one ends with
00:23:41
a uh now you try it. And it talks you
00:23:44
through how you do it and stuff. And
00:23:46
interesting. Just do it. But AI Google,
00:23:48
just go to Google search and search
00:23:50
Google AI boost bites and you'll find
00:23:52
these video lessons.
00:23:54
Again, just to get I agree with
00:23:55
everything you're saying. It's
00:23:56
incredible how fast you can learn and
00:23:59
you can make feel way more creative and
00:24:01
produce different outcomes the more you
00:24:04
input or prompt your unique point of
00:24:05
view. Which which I agree is very
00:24:08
interesting.
00:24:09
And like if I think about what your
00:24:10
business is like Google search, you
00:24:12
brought up Google search and the
00:24:14
advertising model and the revenue and
00:24:16
all the measurement you would have over
00:24:17
search, how does all of that change when
00:24:21
the it's not a search engine anymore?
00:24:22
It's like a an AI engine. The questions
00:24:25
are I find myself typing really
00:24:27
different questions into my into Google
00:24:29
search. It It puts me into the AI thing
00:24:32
right away because of the nature of the
00:24:34
questions. But how can you measure all
00:24:37
of that? How how does your business
00:24:38
change?
00:24:40
So
00:24:41
um
00:24:42
I'll say very briefly um at the Google
00:24:45
company-wide level cuz then I'm not
00:24:46
super qualified to talk about it. But
00:24:48
what I can say is there were more
00:24:49
searches on Google last year than in any
00:24:53
year in Google history. And we're
00:24:55
expecting more searches this year. And
00:24:57
what's actually happened is is AI is
00:24:59
actually allowed a level of innovation
00:25:01
in our core Google search product. AI
00:25:03
mode, AI max,
00:25:05
inner mode, and
00:25:07
AI queries that is actually kind of
00:25:09
transformed and it's turned from what
00:25:11
you might call queries into quests. Oh,
00:25:14
I saw a celebrity wearing a cool leather
00:25:16
jacket. Instead of typing in three word
00:25:19
Brad Pitt leather jacket and hoping you
00:25:20
can get lucky, you literally can type in
00:25:23
Brad Pitt at the Oscars wearing this
00:25:24
leather jacket with a half cut shape,
00:25:27
you know, that's and you can do these
00:25:28
long quests and it works in and it's
00:25:31
actually incredibly powerful. So, we are
00:25:33
seeing higher engagement. We're seeing a
00:25:35
lot of usage of both on YouTube and on
00:25:37
Google core search by younger audiences
00:25:39
in a way which is really really
00:25:41
um
00:25:42
super exciting. From a marketing side
00:25:44
though, I just want to say the Google
00:25:47
has more AI engineers, more AI patents,
00:25:49
and more incentive to build high quality
00:25:52
AI advertising solutions. So, AI max
00:25:54
search is one of them. Everything we're
00:25:57
doing with creative tools on YouTube,
00:25:58
everything we're doing on discovery.
00:26:00
Every time we in Google marketing turn
00:26:02
on one of our AI products, demand gen P
00:26:04
max and beyond, it drives performance.
00:26:07
It increases our effectiveness in the
00:26:09
marketplace. Now,
00:26:11
you can believe me or not, but as a
00:26:12
marketer who spent a lot of money to
00:26:14
start this conversation,
00:26:16
performance. We want to drive business
00:26:18
outcomes. We want to drive growth for
00:26:21
the company. We spend money across the
00:26:23
entire ecosystem. We don't just spend
00:26:25
any money on Google's platforms. I can
00:26:27
tell you that Google's AI solutions,
00:26:29
powered by Gemini and all the AI
00:26:31
technology we've got, are driving real
00:26:33
business growth. That's really really
00:26:35
exciting. So, it's transforming the
00:26:37
business and went to this new era of
00:26:39
excitement for both search, for YouTube,
00:26:41
for Google's platforms overall, and I
00:26:43
think for the marketing technology
00:26:44
industry. We've always had this promise
00:26:46
of the right message to right person at
00:26:47
the right time. We're getting closer and
00:26:49
closer to that and that's great.
00:26:51
>> You know, that it it brings true with my
00:26:53
own personal experience. I've never used
00:26:55
search or those kind of things more
00:26:57
because I can ask so many more
00:26:59
interesting questions. It's no It's not
00:27:01
a query anymore. It's definitely a
00:27:03
quest. Um and I can imagine how if you
00:27:06
can monetize all of that in ways that
00:27:08
are productive for me and for
00:27:09
businesses, it is an incredible growth
00:27:12
market for Google. It's pretty exciting.
00:27:14
Yeah, and let me just I'm sorry.
00:27:16
Joshua Barber's going to hate me for
00:27:18
saying this.
00:27:19
But I love this this terminology you've
00:27:23
presented for the following reasons.
00:27:24
From query to quest. For me, Barbara, in
00:27:26
my mind,
00:27:28
I'm hearing that it's a journey
00:27:31
and it's longer and extended and more
00:27:33
thoughtful. And from what I'm hearing is
00:27:35
that it's my opportunity to have more of
00:27:37
my identity
00:27:39
in this engagement with the tool BECAUSE
00:27:42
IT
00:27:44
I KNOW.
00:27:45
THIS IS A RECORD. WE'RE ONLY WE'RE 27
00:27:48
minutes in before I bring up identity.
00:27:50
But I love that point, Joshua, because
00:27:51
like literally, you're unlocking my
00:27:53
potential and I'm going to look at
00:27:55
Gemini I'm going to look at this Google
00:27:57
suite of tools and I'm going to see them
00:27:59
as part of who I am in engaging with the
00:28:02
world to be creative and to bring
00:28:04
myself, my voice, my vision, whatever it
00:28:06
is that I want to create to the world.
00:28:08
That should result in incredible
00:28:10
loyalty. Would Would you agree with that
00:28:11
or What's your perspective? Not only
00:28:13
will it
00:28:15
result in credible loyalty, but it comes
00:28:17
through utility. It comes from actually
00:28:19
being solving a problem, an issue that
00:28:21
you have as a consumer of the of the
00:28:23
world, just a person. One of the things
00:28:25
which I'm particularly excited about is
00:28:27
when you sign up for Gemini, you can
00:28:29
choose if you want to to connect your
00:28:31
YouTube, your Google Maps, your Gmail,
00:28:33
all your Google products into Gemini.
00:28:36
And so it's truly starts getting to know
00:28:38
you. So as an example of this, um Oh,
00:28:41
that's a really interesting point. I
00:28:44
I I was I was making a I was asking a
00:28:47
question I was on spring break last
00:28:49
week, went on vacation, we went to
00:28:50
Canada and I had asked in Google search
00:28:53
about I asked in Gemini about some of
00:28:55
the weather conditions and it identified
00:28:57
and said look you're you're going there
00:28:59
but you may not want to buy an expensive
00:29:01
jacket cuz it's not going to be that
00:29:02
cold but if you do
00:29:04
you actually there are three you know
00:29:06
stores nearby you where you live and
00:29:09
there are three stores over where you're
00:29:10
actually going to which you can get to
00:29:11
and here are the opening times for them.
00:29:13
Do you want to pop by on your way home
00:29:14
from work? I can plot the route for you.
00:29:17
And it my mind was blown because
00:29:19
Yeah.
00:29:20
a customization
00:29:22
My dream in life is I I love Batman.
00:29:24
That's incredible. I already mentioned
00:29:26
mentioned Tony Stark but I was like like
00:29:28
Alfred from Batman this this this
00:29:29
personal assistant who just
00:29:31
That's what I want in life. I'm never
00:29:33
going to have a butler but Gemini is
00:29:34
starting to become
00:29:36
my butler assistant. And that drives
00:29:37
loyalty, right? Because the more
00:29:39
information I put in one particular
00:29:42
quest or whatever we're talking this,
00:29:44
the more they're going to personalize
00:29:46
the answers to what I've responded to
00:29:48
before and the much less likely I am to
00:29:50
switch to another tool because I don't
00:29:52
want to start populating that other tool
00:29:55
with all my history again. It already
00:29:57
knows me. 100% 100% and
00:29:59
imagine Gemini reaching out to that
00:30:01
store and finding a coupon for Barbara.
00:30:04
Yeah. I mean there's just all kinds of
00:30:06
like Yeah. third fourth order level
00:30:09
stuff that could be really to this is
00:30:11
Barbara's point originally like customer
00:30:12
value opening up that spigot of just
00:30:15
unbelievable utility which then I think
00:30:17
results in for me like becoming super
00:30:19
loyal to the to the tool itself and to
00:30:21
Google for that matter. In five or six
00:30:23
weeks we have Google IO followed by
00:30:25
Google marketing live. Google IO is sort
00:30:27
of the sort of the the the the wide
00:30:28
stage where Sundar shows all our latest
00:30:30
developments and technologies. Google
00:30:32
marketing live is where we do the same
00:30:33
but for advertisers. There's going to be
00:30:35
a lot of information about agentic
00:30:37
shopping, agentic commerce and how we
00:30:39
can help your customers find find your
00:30:42
customers and and and and and convert
00:30:44
them.
00:30:45
Ultimately though, and I I said this
00:30:46
sort of at the beginning, humans are
00:30:48
humans. The fundamental core of what
00:30:50
Google have been built on is start with
00:30:53
the user. Start with people. Find the
00:30:55
problem they have, solve it for them,
00:30:57
and then everything else will follow.
00:30:59
And that's what we're doing with Gemini,
00:31:00
it's what we're doing with AI. Build
00:31:02
something that people actually want to
00:31:03
use and solves their problem, and then
00:31:05
we'll worry about everything else after
00:31:07
that. That's the focus.
00:31:08
>> value. Well, Joshua Spanier, it's like
00:31:12
very fast, but the time is now up. So,
00:31:15
where can people go to find out about
00:31:18
all the stuff you're talking about?
00:31:19
Specifically, where can they go? Okay,
00:31:21
so I I I have two resources. I host a
00:31:24
podcast myself called Frontier CMO, and
00:31:26
I publish a weekly newsletter on
00:31:28
LinkedIn for the for that. So, just go
00:31:30
on LinkedIn or go to YouTube and search
00:31:32
for Frontier CMO, or search on any place
00:31:34
you get podcasts. And then at
00:31:36
thinkwithgoogle.com
00:31:37
is our sort of collection of all our
00:31:39
thought leadership around every aspect
00:31:41
of the marketing business. So,
00:31:42
thinkwithgoogle.com, you can also get to
00:31:44
Frontier CMO within that portal as well.
00:31:47
But those two resources have an
00:31:48
unbelievable wealth of free resource
00:31:52
for you to learn AI. It's incredible.
00:31:54
Thank you so much for joining us. That's
00:31:56
all we have time today for today. We'd
00:31:59
like to thank our producers Dianne
00:32:01
Simpkins and Marissa Ranna, and thank
00:32:03
you all for listening today. We'll be
00:32:04
back soon. Till then, this has been
00:32:06
Marketing Matters on the Wharton Podcast
00:32:08
Network. I'm Barbara Kahn here with
00:32:11
America's Read.
