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Hello and welcome. You're listening to Marketing Matters on the Wharton Podcast
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Network. This is our weekly podcast where we analyze the latest in advertising, marketing, customer
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behavior, new product launches, branding, retailing, everything marketing. I'm Barbara Khan, the Patty
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and JH Baker Professor of Marketing, and I'm joined by my co-host, America, the
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Whitney M. Young Jr. Professor of Marketing and a brand identity theorist. And today we're going to go into the
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very interesting world of asset and wealth management and we're going to speak with Rosa Rita who is the global
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chief marketing officer for JP Morgan. Welcome Rosa. >> Hi Rosa. >> You thank you for having me.
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So this is a very interesting time I believe from talking to you in the idea of uh what financial industry what a big
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company like JP Morgan is doing in asset and wealth management. Um and I know that you have a very interesting job
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there. You're the global chief marketing officer. And so what that means is I
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guess you provide all the marketing information going out um for your financial advisors etc. And typically
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tell us what typically marketing meant in this world and then you can tell us what you're doing now. But typically
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what was your job? >> Yeah, sure. I mean if I look back 10 years ago, marketing was very reactive
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in this industry in this particular world of asset and wealth management. It was a much more sophisticated and
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advanced paradigm on the consumer side. So if you think about 10 years ago, it would be very reactive in terms of I
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need this to get in front of a client or I need to tell a client about a new product or I need to really put together
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a pitchbook to introduce a new client. Uh I need to video a thought leader because we have a view of the world or
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what's happening from a macroeconomic perspective. And now 10 years later, that entire paradigm has shifted in
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terms of marketing being a partner and a voice that actually can introduce new clients to the world of asset and wealth
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management. You don't have to just rely on the advisor to build that relationship. We're very much building
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that relationship with our target audiences as well, >> which is really exciting. That's a real
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big shift to be able to come in um and not just react to that kind of thing. And so so so that's a big shift right
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there. And and what I know you're a leader in and maybe the industry leader in, I don't know, but possibly on the
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use of AI in this everybody's talking about this. You cannot have a conversation in marketing without
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somebody mentioning what's the role of AI. But the idea of using AI initiatives
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in this particular industry in asset management and private banking business, it I'm not even sure what that could
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possibly mean. So what does it mean to use these AI to build initiatives for your marketing programs? Let me take a
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step back before we even get into the world of AI. before we even get into the world of AI, I mean just understanding
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these audiences and using data in a way um to arm marketers and and arm the team
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with the science behind who are we talking to and like what is so important about this audience, right? I think the
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the challenge we have or the opportunity that we have in asset and wealth management is these are very finite
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audiences in the consumer universe. So I'm not talking to 50 million people,
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right? I'm talking very finite audience and I'm either going to like get get the
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attention or they're going to believe or they're going to resonate with what
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we're saying or they're not. So there's a great responsibility. I mean you could
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pretty much screw the whole thing up very quickly if you >> I imagineive right and you're not really
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understanding the data behind what will really resonate how can I actually serve
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like how can we be advisors right in the same tone in terms of all of the care that adi if an adviser were sitting here
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with you they would know who you are they would know what's important to you
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how can marketing so I think it starts with the data and I think that it's like
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such an like before we even get to AI just understanding that piece and piecing together the data to really
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understand like the psychology and the behavior and how we can be helpful is the first key.
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>> I want to continue to unpack this historical context that Barbara opened
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up here and I want you to comment on this Rosa because you said something that was interesting resonating with
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this consumer who is now out there. It's a finite consumer. talk a little bit
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about because the consumer there was at some point the internet came online and now you could get all kinds of
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information about assets and things that you can learn about financially on your
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own. talk was there. So when the consumers suddenly had this aperture open up, what was that? What was that
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impact? Did they are they mislearning things when consumers came online and now it's not reactive? They have
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something that they can respond to or they have when you tell them something to resonate with them. They can check it
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against something that they think they've learned because the information is now out there to go and learn on
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these things on the internet and stuff like that. So I'm just wondering did that complicate things? that the
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consumer decision-m process gets screwed up. >> This democratization of being able to
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find information anywhere and hear hear from different people. I mean, think about social media and like just hearing
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about influencers there and who do you listen to? I actually think that's what
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made our jobs easier >> on on the JP Morgan side only because we already have this brand that is known
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for being a steady place to go. I mean over 200 years going through all sorts of um cycles, market cycles, ups, downs,
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sideways and then also like we're we're here, you know, we've been here and
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being a fiduciary. I think >> that's interesting. >> Brand helps us. So in that case, right,
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I feel that that was like a great moment for us because yes, there's all this
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information out there. I mean, you're probably wondering, is this right? Is it
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wrong? Can I trust this source? Right. So, so from that perspective, I felt like that like was a great thing for us
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because it allowed us to use the power of the brand and translate it into a place you can trust, right? But then the
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second piece was a place you could trust, but now how am I not just giving you commoditized stuff?
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>> Yeah. So, you can get anywhere like what information do you find out about the
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customers that then you can use to tailor the marketing. So he was asking like what the marketers are looking at
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and you were in a good place for that but then you're going to look at their
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reaction or what behaviors they do and build your marketing materials on them. So like what are the behav what are the
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what are the kind of things you looked at in customer behavior once you could access that data?
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>> Yeah, that's a great question. I mean like that's where the partnership with
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the with our adviserss really comes into play. So, not only do we like not only can we watch and see if you're engaging
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in certain thought leadership, if you happen to be reading something that you're very interested in on our
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website, if you happen to be signing up and registering for events on certain topics, if you've actually come
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>> and then being able to mind the the importance and really rich conversations
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that people are having from our CRM system paints a really incredible picture and allows
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jobs so much better than what we've been doing in the past. >> Of course, that makes perfect sense. I
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mean, I know in a parallel industry like healthcare, like as a patient, you go there and you got this weird ache and
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you're like looking up all information about the weird ache. Apparently, from
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what you're saying, I don't do this, but other people must do this. Like that
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they look up all this information, they're worried about investment or they're worrying about this or that.
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They're trying to teach themselves to America's point. So they become smarter
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on this stuff and you can see what they're interested in um and where their vulnerabilities are and things like that
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and then you can build marketing that addresses the needs that they have. >> Interesting.
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>> And can you tie that behavior to demographics? Like do you know those people like who's wealthy and who's not
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or who lives in a market you want to serve or whatever? >> Yes. So I mean like that's the that's
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the beauty of being in a like I can't do that everywhere across the globe but in
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the US we can do that quite readily because we know we h we have all of this information information on demographics
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to understand where is our target audience when I mentioned yike we're in a position where we're really serving on
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the private bank business we're serving a very finite audience right and we want
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to make sure our message is getting to that audience right there are other places within JP Morgan that serve other
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audiences as well. So like there's a home for everyone here, but like the home that I'm focused on is is this
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finite, right? So the audience, right, is so much more sophisticated. So like commoditized or generic kind of advice
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isn't going to cut it, right? Like the educational stuff just isn't going to
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cut it. It's really about understanding who these individuals are, who the families are, and really saying
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something smarter, giving a piece of advice that perhaps didn't hear somewhere else. Right? That's the art
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and science piece of it in terms of like what can you put together in terms of I'm telling you something that's like
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maybe someone else didn't tell you or maybe the way that we're looking at it
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or maybe this is what we're talking to five other clients about today. >> Interesting.
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>> That we want want to make sure you know about. >> Interesting. So a as colleagues at JP
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Morgan are undertaking an understanding of being proactive about helping consumers understand how the JP Morgan
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brand will take them into a very positive financial future. Uh how did how does this play out? I love by the
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way I'm doing marketing for you right now Rosa. So >> JP Morgan I love the brand. Uh but I'm
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curious because like when something let's say I just give this I don't know
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to the extent you can talk about this but some something happens let's say new
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in the market like crypto and so people show up and they're like trying to understand what is this thing I have no
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idea JP Morgan is a thought leader in helping us be a and being basically a trusted advisor and helping us
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understand more about this potentially new investment uh class let's say talk
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us through that as you are guiding consumers visa v the JP Morgan brand. How does it how do you walk that line
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of, you know, rep staying as on top of thought leadership but also providing the type of value and important you know
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risk information that they need to know to be able to make really good decisions
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under the sort of the earmark of the JP Morgan brand. >> I think in the in the conversation
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around crypto like one of the places we would start is like what hype not to believe and like what could like what
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not to trust and like where things could go wrong. So I think it actually started
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with that lens in terms of crypto in terms of here are all the things that people are telling you that you should
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really take a step back and really analyze right in in that particular instance and then it was thoughtfully
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like what's our reaction to this like what will we build or what we will think
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about within the JP Morgan like ecosystem that will be like uh uh like the opposite of all those bad things
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that we that we told you about. Right. >> Yeah. Sometimes we're not we're not
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first to the market in it because we're kind of stepping back and thinking about
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like what should we be really doing like thinking about the consumer, right? So sometimes like it's being first to
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market to say, "Hey, wait a minute. Here are the things we're worried about. Here
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are the things we're seeing. Here's why this might not be trustworthy." Got it.
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>> Um, and then in other moments where I thought you were going to go is like
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there are just moments that happen, >> right, in terms of like all of a sudden
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the market is super volatile. What does that mean? >> Yeah. No kidding. Like almost every day.
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>> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> That's actually where I feel that we have the most like personalized kind of
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advice because we're not that's what we're thinking about in these four
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walls. And really what our jobs are here in marketing is to kind of let you into
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that, right? let let the consumer into that like here's what it means here's
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what we're thinking about here's what's happening in terms of market volatility
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and then it's speed being there first so you to your point and why you stopped
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the conversation you could do all of this in some sense before AI like you were doing this for a while just having
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the data and that was very different from the way you described the history 10 years ago having the data allows you
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to be more proactive immediate like you said now we know people are scared about
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this I can get to you right away with exactly what's on your mind, right? Like, so what does AI what does AI buy
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you? I mean, >> first of all, I'd have to say like it's never been a better time to be a
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marketer. Anyone who'sing right now? >> Oh, sorry, Roa. Rosa, I'm sorry. Could
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you just repeat that? I want my I want to get this I want to make sure this is on the record for all my students.
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>> I'm doing your marketing now. I know. >> It has never been a better time to be a
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marketer. And that's because like what I've just described, yes, it's really
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good, right? And we could talk to people in like using segmentation, right? And put people into segments, but we're
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about to unleash this world where I like a marketer can really talk to a segment
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of one. And that we have never been able to do. So we've been able to test like
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ABC testing, do different versions of things, personalize based on segments. But what AI is unleashing is this entire
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new ecosystem where marketers can really get down to like a really really really
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micro segmented level and I would think at some points like a very personal segment of one and that's going to
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change why can AI do that in a way your data didn't wasn't able to do it before.
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I mean, if you go into cloud code or you go into cloud and just see what it can do today, think about that from like a a
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platform that we can now build for marketers to actually do their work differently and think about their work
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differently. And now if I have this data and I know Barbara, this is like everything that I think you're worried
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about or things that you've been engaging with, right? Wow. What's my what am I going to do for you? What kind
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of advice am I going to give you personally because I have now this platform and I have AI that's going to
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help me generate all of this like very quickly and get it to you. Let me ask you a question then. This goes back to
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America's original question. So which I finally understood but uh but but if if
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AI can do that why do I need JP Morgan? Like why can't I just do it myself? >> Yes. Yes. because it's going back to
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this commoditized generic advice. So like the human in the loop still has a brain and the human in the loop still
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has advice to give you. The way we're thinking about AI is it's being able to
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get you that very personalized advice within a marketing ecosystem. So imagine a world where like when an advisor talks
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to you, but you might not talk to that adviser. You're busy. You're going about
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your life. But you go to a website. Really? What is a website anymore? like it could be dynamic and it's based on
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however I know you. Here's what I'm like here is the here's what your top article
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looks like. Here are the things that I'm positioning for you. And then you might
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get an email or a newsletter. Again, it's highly personalized based on what matters to you, right? You might see a
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media ad. Again, it's on something that matters to you. And now you're in this
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entire ecosystem as you go about your life. But now you're getting very relevant, personalized advice like from
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the best thinking that we have here, but we're letting you in on it versus what I
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used to do in the past. >> Yeah, let me build on that point, Rose. I love that point. I love this because
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to your point, Barbara, what I'm seeing is a proliferation of lots of platforms that are showing up
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that can do AI related sorts of things. And the question becomes to Barbara's
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point, why would you not do this yourself? And they part of the answer is I don't have time unless I'm unless I'm
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personally invested in like financial topics and that's my jam. I you know there's a million other things that I I
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and that's where the JP Morgan brand comes in because that trusted brand now
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steps in and unleashes agentic power to automate more things and to create more opportunities to to personalize really
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important powerful financial advice and things like that. And to me that opens up the entire world in the sense of now
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you know I don't have to try to do everything even though I can because the trusted adviserss are there to help me
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and do it for me essentially which is to Barbara's point you know the reason why
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I would stay out of this because I just don't have time to do all these things
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by myself no matter how great cloud is I need someone to come in and and sort of
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give that efficiency. I mean is that part of the the value proposition that you >> Yeah. The other thing that we're finding
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which is interesting and I don't know if you're seeing this is like even with
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these agentic and AI tools like the creative people here are always using it the best way like the the creative
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people are using the creative tools the best here okay like I could go in there and play around with it but like you
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really want this thing to like take off give it to a create give it to a top-notch creative person in that same
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vein right you want some of these um financial tools to really talk take off the advice give it to like your best
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advisor in terms of the one that Right. So those tools are like those tools are still we're finding the best in the
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hands of the people who know the craft. >> No, that makes sense. That makes sense.
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So now and I like that idea. It goes back to the idea marketing is not, you know, going to be replaced by AI. It's
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going to be enhanced by AI. >> One of the things just historically was a really big issue with financial
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advisors is this area of trust. I mean, you hear all these stories about Birdie Maid off and all these other things. I
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mean, this is an area where you've got to do trust. So, I mean, I have to trust
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my advisor. I But now that you got the AI in there, how does that does how does trust work in a world that's mediated by
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AI? >> Yeah. It's a it's a compliment, right? So, we're not trying like that trust,
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right? Primary is still from the adviser. I don't see those relationships like especially with something like
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related to your money, your future, your family, your goals. Right. Right. >> It it should it should be primarily with
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the advisor. Right. We're trying to complement the adviser. We're trying to
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take the best of what the advisor is saying, the best of what our economists are saying, the best of like the inside
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baseball, the things that we're talking about here when something important happens. And AI allows us to get that to
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you quickly. Whereas in the past, right, the day would go on. How would I even get that to you? We've already had the
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meetings. We've already had the discussions in the moment. We can take that and like let you in on it, right?
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While it's happening. That's the difference. We're not trying to replace
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the advice or or replace the advice. We're trying to get you like the inside
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view of what's really happening when something really goes wrong or goes wonderfully in JP Morgan. Like how do we
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mobilize? what are we talking about and how do I how do I share that with you? So that's one other question I have
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whenever you see especially in financial industries I've watched financial industries t you know go across in the
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last 25 years there have been a lot of changes first when data came in and now AI and one there was two issues that I
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thought were interesting one the customer trust issue which is a really big issue in financial services because
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I'm trusting you with my fortune I do not want you to do something but the other side of it is to get the agents or
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the salespeople or whatever you the adviserss I guess you call them the adviserss to trust you and AI and like
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typically the advisors don't trust technology because they're afraid they're going to be replaced. I mean and
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you're not talking like that. you're talking about it as an enhancement, but
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I could imagine some resistance on the side of the advisors like I don't think
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this is a good road to go down because I want to make sure my relationships are mine and they're personal and that's
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always been a fight with JP Morgan and the adviserss who owns the customer and I think the more the advisor invests in
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these AI solutions they may feel insecure and you've got to counter that. I mean, a lot of the tools we're talking
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about here are to enhance the advisor, enhance the efficiency, per se. So, like, imagine a world where I'm an
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advisor and I'm spending all this time trying to schedule a meeting with you or
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I'm try I'm traveling to meet you or I have to like download my thoughts and
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like put my notes into a system, >> right? >> Imag worlds where like that's all taken
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away. That means I have more time for you more. >> Oh, that's a great feeling. do the
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really high value stuff and not all other stuff that was taking up my day. And I think that's why I think that's a
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really powerful way to work in part. >> Absolutely. >> I didn't know you could do that. So the
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AI helps save the advisor time too. >> Would do things they don't want to do
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and let them do what they want to do. >> Exactly. Think I just had a meeting with
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you. Now in the in the old world, I'd have to like take notes and then put them into a system or My god, I would
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put them into a system so I wouldn't remember. >> Yeah. But now that happened on the fly,
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I could take my phone and just like with your like >> have notes and then I could also give
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you like if we talked about five things and you said oh I'd really be interested
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in these five things. I can get them to you right then and there >> and there.
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>> I love >> AI is this together and saying here's what Barbara needs.
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>> Yeah, I love that point. It's an interesting I was listening to an example um discussed by an economist his
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name is Justin Wolfers and he was saying that he was making the point this is your point Rosa he was making the point
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about technology and he was pointing out that it was very interesting that when the technology changed where we could
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actually have ATMs outside counting the money and giving money that the interesting thing that happened was that
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the number of bank tellers actually went up and the point was if this is man if the technology is managed correctly
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which is what you're saying Rosa And what will happen is that the human talent can become can get better at what
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it really needs to do. This is Barbara's point as well. Focus on that relationship building part and all this
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other stuff which is you know kind of the work that needs to get done to sort of you know be a pillar for that
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relationship that can get automated and like be part of an ecosystem where everyone's learning from the
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information. Is that a fair more than just intelligence? It's also efficiency.
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>> It's also efficiency as well. It's all the no we call the no joy worm
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you'd have to do. >> Yes. >> So Rosen, we only have a couple minutes
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left, but I'm really curious. You've been in this business for two two decades. You've seen a lot of changes.
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What what kind of conclusions are you reaching about all this and what do you see for the future?
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>> I mean, I can't like I mean, what a time to be alive like of all the times in the
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world. like this to happen. Now I really see a world where the impact of marketers is going to rise
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exponentially. Right? So I feel like we had a lot of what I'm going to call like
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logistical or nojoy work that we'd have to do like in terms of workflows and
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processes to just be able to create things. And now that entire paradigm is shifting.
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>> I love that. >> So that's what I'm most excited about. >> Yes.
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>> The paradigm is shifting. >> Love that. paradigm shifting and the the
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worth of a marketer is increasing exponentially. So that's why I'd say it's never been a better time to be a
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marketer. >> Love that. >> And the first day of class where I speak to all of my Wharton MBAs, Rosa, who
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come into my class, they're all finance people and they're like, "Oh my god,
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here's America talking about marketing." I'm going to say, "Don't listen to me.
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Listen to what JP Morgan said about marketing." And I'm going to play this
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clip. >> So when are this is a new platform? When are you releasing this new platform, it
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it that some of this AI generated stuff is actually brand new, right? >> Yeah. I mean, like what's great about JP
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Morgan is like at the at the corporate level, we've already released across um
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across the firm like an LLM suite. So already that efficiency is already in play. We're in the works on on, you
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know, building our platform. It'll be out within the next quarter. So >> look for our press release.
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>> Oh, that's that's >> exciting. >> Yeah. Well, Rosarita, thank you so much
00:24:40
for joining us. Rosarita, who's the global chief marketing officer at JP Morgan and if people are interested in
00:24:46
learning more about this, where can they go to find that out? Well, we have not to plug this, but we have this great
00:24:52
Harvard Business School case um that talks about everything that >> Oh, that's cool.
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>> At JP Morgan. >> Yeah. You could go you could go read that um and you'll really get an
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insider's view of everything that we're thinking about from the advisor lens.
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That's on the marketing lens and and the sales lens. >> Yeah, we got to get we got to get on
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that Americas. Um >> anyway, thank you very much and thank you all for joining us today. That's all
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we have time to for. We'd like to thank our producers Deian Simpkins, Aaron Tren, and Marissa Rena. And thank you
00:25:25
all for listening. We'll be back next week. Till then, this has been Marketing
00:25:29
Matters on the Wharton podcast network. I'm Barbara Khan here with America's
00:25:34
Reed.