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Hello and welcome. You're listening to
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Marketing Matters on the Wharton Podcast
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Network. This is our weekly podcast
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where we analyze the latest in
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advertising, marketing, customer
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behavior, new product launches,
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branding, retailing, everything
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marketing. I'm Barbara Khan, the Patty
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and JH Baker Professor of Marketing, and
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I'm joined by my co-host, America, the
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Whitney M. Young Jr. Professor of
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Marketing and a brand identity theorist.
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And today we're going to go into the
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very interesting world of asset and
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wealth management and we're going to
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speak with Rosa Rita who is the global
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chief marketing officer for JP Morgan.
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Welcome Rosa.
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>> Hi Rosa.
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>> You thank you for having me.
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So this is a very interesting time I
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believe from talking to you in the idea
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of uh what financial industry what a big
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company like JP Morgan is doing in asset
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and wealth management. Um and I know
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that you have a very interesting job
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there. You're the global chief marketing
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officer. And so what that means is I
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guess you provide all the marketing
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information going out um for your
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financial advisors etc. And typically
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tell us what typically marketing meant
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in this world and then you can tell us
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what you're doing now. But typically
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what was your job?
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>> Yeah, sure. I mean if I look back 10
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years ago, marketing was very reactive
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in this industry in this particular
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world of asset and wealth management. It
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was a much more sophisticated and
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advanced paradigm on the consumer side.
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So if you think about 10 years ago, it
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would be very reactive in terms of I
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need this to get in front of a client or
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I need to tell a client about a new
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product or I need to really put together
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a pitchbook to introduce a new client.
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Uh I need to video a thought leader
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because we have a view of the world or
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what's happening from a macroeconomic
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perspective. And now 10 years later,
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that entire paradigm has shifted in
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terms of marketing being a partner and a
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voice that actually can introduce new
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clients to the world of asset and wealth
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management. You don't have to just rely
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on the advisor to build that
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relationship. We're very much building
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that relationship with our target
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audiences as well,
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>> which is really exciting. That's a real
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big shift to be able to come in um and
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not just react to that kind of thing.
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And so so so that's a big shift right
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there. And and what I know you're a
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leader in and maybe the industry leader
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in, I don't know, but possibly on the
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use of AI in this everybody's talking
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about this. You cannot have a
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conversation in marketing without
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somebody mentioning what's the role of
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AI. But the idea of using AI initiatives
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in this particular industry in asset
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management and private banking business,
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it I'm not even sure what that could
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possibly mean. So what does it mean to
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use these AI to build initiatives for
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your marketing programs? Let me take a
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step back before we even get into the
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world of AI. before we even get into the
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world of AI, I mean just understanding
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these audiences and using data in a way
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um to arm marketers and and arm the team
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with the science behind who are we
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talking to and like what is so important
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about this audience, right? I think the
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the challenge we have or the opportunity
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that we have in asset and wealth
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management is these are very finite
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audiences in the consumer universe. So
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I'm not talking to 50 million people,
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right? I'm talking very finite audience
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and I'm either going to like get get the
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attention or they're going to believe or
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they're going to resonate with what
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we're saying or they're not. So there's
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a great responsibility. I mean you could
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pretty much screw the whole thing up
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very quickly if you
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>> I imagineive
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right and you're not really
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understanding the data behind what will
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really resonate how can I actually serve
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like how can we be advisors right in the
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same tone in terms of all of the care
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that adi if an adviser were sitting here
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with you they would know who you are
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they would know what's important to you
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how can marketing so I think it starts
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with the data and I think that it's like
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such an like before we even get to AI
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just understanding that piece and
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piecing together the data to really
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understand like the psychology and the
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behavior and how we can be helpful is
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the first key.
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>> I want to continue to unpack this
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historical context that Barbara opened
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up here and I want you to comment on
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this Rosa because you said something
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that was interesting resonating with
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this consumer who is now out there. It's
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a finite consumer. talk a little bit
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about because the consumer there was at
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some point the internet came online and
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now you could get all kinds of
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information about assets and things that
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you can learn about financially on your
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own. talk was there. So when the
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consumers suddenly had this aperture
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open up, what was that? What was that
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impact? Did they are they mislearning
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things when consumers came online and
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now it's not reactive? They have
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something that they can respond to or
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they have when you tell them something
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to resonate with them. They can check it
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against something that they think
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they've learned because the information
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is now out there to go and learn on
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these things on the internet and stuff
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like that. So I'm just wondering did
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that complicate things? that the
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consumer decision-m process gets screwed
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up.
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>> This democratization of being able to
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find information anywhere and hear hear
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from different people. I mean, think
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about social media and like just hearing
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about influencers there and who do you
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listen to? I actually think that's what
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made our jobs easier
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>> on on the JP Morgan side only because we
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already have this brand that is known
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for being a steady place to go. I mean
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over 200 years going through all sorts
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of um cycles, market cycles, ups, downs,
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sideways and then also like we're we're
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here, you know, we've been here and
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being a fiduciary. I think
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>> that's interesting.
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>> Brand helps us. So in that case, right,
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I feel that that was like a great moment
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for us because yes, there's all this
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information out there. I mean, you're
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probably wondering, is this right? Is it
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wrong? Can I trust this source? Right.
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So, so from that perspective, I felt
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like that like was a great thing for us
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because it allowed us to use the power
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of the brand and translate it into a
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place you can trust, right? But then the
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second piece was a place you could
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trust, but now how am I not just giving
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you commoditized stuff?
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>> Yeah. So, you can get anywhere like what
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information do you find out about the
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customers that then you can use to
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tailor the marketing. So he was asking
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like what the marketers are looking at
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and you were in a good place for that
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but then you're going to look at their
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reaction or what behaviors they do and
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build your marketing materials on them.
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So like what are the behav what are the
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what are the kind of things you looked
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at in customer behavior once you could
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access that data?
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>> Yeah, that's a great question. I mean
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like that's where the partnership with
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the with our adviserss really comes into
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play. So, not only do we like not only
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can we watch and see if you're engaging
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in certain thought leadership, if you
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happen to be reading something that
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you're very interested in on our
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website, if you happen to be signing up
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and registering for events on certain
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topics, if you've actually come
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>> and then being able to mind the the
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importance and really rich conversations
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that people are having from our CRM
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system paints a really incredible
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picture and allows
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jobs so much better than what we've been
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doing in the past.
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>> Of course, that makes perfect sense. I
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mean, I know in a parallel industry like
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healthcare, like as a patient, you go
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there and you got this weird ache and
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you're like looking up all information
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about the weird ache. Apparently, from
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what you're saying, I don't do this, but
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other people must do this. Like that
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they look up all this information,
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they're worried about investment or
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they're worrying about this or that.
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They're trying to teach themselves to
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America's point. So they become smarter
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on this stuff and you can see what
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they're interested in um and where their
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vulnerabilities are and things like that
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and then you can build marketing that
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addresses the needs that they have.
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>> Interesting.
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>> And can you tie that behavior to
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demographics? Like do you know those
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people like who's wealthy and who's not
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or who lives in a market you want to
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serve or whatever?
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>> Yes. So I mean like that's the that's
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the beauty of being in a like I can't do
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that everywhere across the globe but in
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the US we can do that quite readily
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because we know we h we have all of this
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information information on demographics
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to understand where is our target
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audience when I mentioned yike we're in
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a position where we're really serving on
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the private bank business we're serving
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a very finite audience right and we want
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to make sure our message is getting to
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that audience right there are other
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places within JP Morgan that serve other
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audiences as well. So like there's a
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home for everyone here, but like the
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home that I'm focused on is is this
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finite, right? So the audience, right,
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is so much more sophisticated. So like
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commoditized or generic kind of advice
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isn't going to cut it, right? Like the
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educational stuff just isn't going to
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cut it. It's really about understanding
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who these individuals are, who the
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families are, and really saying
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something smarter, giving a piece of
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advice that perhaps didn't hear
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somewhere else. Right? That's the art
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and science piece of it in terms of like
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what can you put together in terms of
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I'm telling you something that's like
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maybe someone else didn't tell you or
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maybe the way that we're looking at it
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or maybe this is what we're talking to
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five other clients about today.
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>> Interesting.
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>> That we want want to make sure you know
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about.
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>> Interesting. So a as colleagues at JP
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Morgan are undertaking an understanding
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of being proactive about helping
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consumers understand how the JP Morgan
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brand will take them into a very
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positive financial future. Uh how did
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how does this play out? I love by the
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way I'm doing marketing for you right
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now Rosa. So
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>> JP Morgan I love the brand. Uh but I'm
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curious because like when something
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let's say I just give this I don't know
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to the extent you can talk about this
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but some something happens let's say new
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in the market like crypto and so people
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show up and they're like trying to
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understand what is this thing I have no
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idea JP Morgan is a thought leader in
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helping us be a and being basically a
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trusted advisor and helping us
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understand more about this potentially
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new investment uh class let's say talk
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us through that as you are guiding
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consumers visa v the JP Morgan brand.
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How does it how do you walk that line
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of, you know, rep staying as on top of
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thought leadership but also providing
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the type of value and important you know
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risk information that they need to know
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to be able to make really good decisions
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under the sort of the earmark of the JP
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Morgan brand.
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>> I think in the in the conversation
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around crypto like one of the places we
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would start is like what hype not to
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believe and like what could like what
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not to trust and like where things could
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go wrong. So I think it actually started
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with that lens in terms of crypto in
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terms of here are all the things that
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people are telling you that you should
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really take a step back and really
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analyze right in in that particular
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instance and then it was thoughtfully
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like what's our reaction to this like
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what will we build or what we will think
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about within the JP Morgan like
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ecosystem that will be like uh uh like
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the opposite of all those bad things
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that we that we told you about. Right.
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>> Yeah. Sometimes we're not we're not
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first to the market in it because we're
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kind of stepping back and thinking about
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like what should we be really doing like
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thinking about the consumer, right? So
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sometimes like it's being first to
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market to say, "Hey, wait a minute. Here
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are the things we're worried about. Here
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are the things we're seeing. Here's why
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this might not be trustworthy." Got it.
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>> Um, and then in other moments where I
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thought you were going to go is like
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there are just moments that happen,
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>> right, in terms of like all of a sudden
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the market is super volatile. What does
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that mean?
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>> Yeah. No kidding. Like almost every day.
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>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
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>> That's actually where I feel that we
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have the most like personalized kind of
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advice because we're not that's what
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we're thinking about in these four
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walls. And really what our jobs are here
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in marketing is to kind of let you into
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that, right? let let the consumer into
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that like here's what it means here's
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what we're thinking about here's what's
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happening in terms of market volatility
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and then it's speed being there first so
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you to your point and why you stopped
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the conversation you could do all of
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this in some sense before AI like you
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were doing this for a while just having
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the data and that was very different
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from the way you described the history
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10 years ago having the data allows you
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to be more proactive immediate like you
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said now we know people are scared about
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this I can get to you right away with
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exactly what's on your mind, right?
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Like, so what does AI what does AI buy
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you? I mean,
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>> first of all, I'd have to say like it's
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never been a better time to be a
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marketer. Anyone who'sing right now?
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>> Oh, sorry, Roa. Rosa, I'm sorry. Could
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you just repeat that? I want my I want
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to get this I want to make sure this is
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on the record for all my students.
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>> I'm doing your marketing now. I know.
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>> It has never been a better time to be a
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marketer. And that's because like what
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I've just described, yes, it's really
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good, right? And we could talk to people
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in like using segmentation, right? And
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put people into segments, but we're
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about to unleash this world where I like
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a marketer can really talk to a segment
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of one. And that we have never been able
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to do. So we've been able to test like
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ABC testing, do different versions of
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things, personalize based on segments.
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But what AI is unleashing is this entire
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new ecosystem where marketers can really
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get down to like a really really really
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micro segmented level and I would think
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at some points like a very personal
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segment of one and that's going to
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change
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why can AI do that in a way your data
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didn't wasn't able to do it before.
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I mean, if you go into cloud code or you
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go into cloud and just see what it can
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do today, think about that from like a a
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platform that we can now build for
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marketers to actually do their work
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differently and think about their work
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differently. And now if I have this data
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and I know Barbara, this is like
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everything that I think you're worried
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about or things that you've been
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engaging with, right? Wow. What's my
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what am I going to do for you? What kind
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of advice am I going to give you
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personally because I have now this
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platform and I have AI that's going to
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help me generate all of this like very
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quickly and get it to you. Let me ask
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you a question then. This goes back to
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America's original question. So which I
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finally understood but uh but but if if
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AI can do that why do I need JP Morgan?
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Like why can't I just do it myself?
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>> Yes. Yes. because it's going back to
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this commoditized generic advice. So
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like the human in the loop still has a
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brain and the human in the loop still
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has advice to give you. The way we're
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thinking about AI is it's being able to
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get you that very personalized advice
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within a marketing ecosystem. So imagine
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a world where like when an advisor talks
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to you, but you might not talk to that
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adviser. You're busy. You're going about
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your life. But you go to a website.
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Really? What is a website anymore? like
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it could be dynamic and it's based on
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however I know you. Here's what I'm like
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here is the here's what your top article
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looks like. Here are the things that I'm
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positioning for you. And then you might
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get an email or a newsletter. Again,
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it's highly personalized based on what
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matters to you, right? You might see a
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media ad. Again, it's on something that
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matters to you. And now you're in this
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entire ecosystem as you go about your
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life. But now you're getting very
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relevant, personalized advice like from
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the best thinking that we have here, but
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we're letting you in on it versus what I
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used to do in the past.
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>> Yeah, let me build on that point, Rose.
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I love that point. I love this because
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to your point, Barbara, what I'm seeing
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is a proliferation
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of lots of platforms that are showing up
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that can do AI related sorts of things.
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And the question becomes to Barbara's
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point, why would you not do this
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yourself? And they part of the answer is
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I don't have time unless I'm unless I'm
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personally invested in like financial
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topics and that's my jam. I you know
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there's a million other things that I I
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and that's where the JP Morgan brand
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comes in because that trusted brand now
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steps in and unleashes agentic power to
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automate more things and to create more
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opportunities to to personalize really
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important powerful financial advice and
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things like that. And to me that opens
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up the entire world in the sense of now
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you know I don't have to try to do
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everything even though I can because the
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trusted adviserss are there to help me
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and do it for me essentially which is to
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Barbara's point you know the reason why
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I would stay out of this because I just
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don't have time to do all these things
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by myself no matter how great cloud is I
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need someone to come in and and sort of
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give that efficiency. I mean is that
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part of the the value proposition that
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you
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>> Yeah. The other thing that we're finding
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which is interesting and I don't know if
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you're seeing this is like even with
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these agentic and AI tools like the
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creative people here are always using it
00:17:13
the best way like the the creative
00:17:15
people are using the creative tools the
00:17:16
best here okay like I could go in there
00:17:18
and play around with it but like you
00:17:20
really want this thing to like take off
00:17:22
give it to a create give it to a
00:17:23
top-notch creative person in that same
00:17:25
vein right you want some of these um
00:17:28
financial tools to really talk take off
00:17:30
the advice give it to like your best
00:17:33
advisor in terms of the one that Right.
00:17:36
So those tools are like those tools are
00:17:39
still we're finding the best in the
00:17:41
hands of the people who know the craft.
00:17:43
>> No, that makes sense. That makes sense.
00:17:44
So now and I like that idea. It goes
00:17:47
back to the idea marketing is not, you
00:17:48
know, going to be replaced by AI. It's
00:17:50
going to be enhanced by AI.
00:17:53
>> One of the things just historically was
00:17:55
a really big issue with financial
00:17:56
advisors is this area of trust. I mean,
00:17:59
you hear all these stories about Birdie
00:18:00
Maid off and all these other things. I
00:18:02
mean, this is an area where you've got
00:18:06
to do trust. So, I mean, I have to trust
00:18:08
my advisor. I But now that you got the
00:18:11
AI in there, how does that does how does
00:18:14
trust work in a world that's mediated by
00:18:16
AI?
00:18:18
>> Yeah. It's a it's a compliment, right?
00:18:20
So, we're not trying like that trust,
00:18:23
right? Primary is still from the
00:18:25
adviser. I don't see those relationships
00:18:27
like especially with something like
00:18:28
related to your money, your future, your
00:18:31
family, your goals. Right. Right.
00:18:33
>> It it should it should be primarily with
00:18:35
the advisor. Right. We're trying to
00:18:37
complement the adviser. We're trying to
00:18:39
take the best of what the advisor is
00:18:41
saying, the best of what our economists
00:18:44
are saying, the best of like the inside
00:18:46
baseball, the things that we're talking
00:18:48
about here when something important
00:18:50
happens. And AI allows us to get that to
00:18:52
you quickly. Whereas in the past, right,
00:18:55
the day would go on. How would I even
00:18:57
get that to you? We've already had the
00:18:59
meetings. We've already had the
00:19:00
discussions in the moment. We can take
00:19:02
that and like let you in on it, right?
00:19:05
While it's happening. That's the
00:19:07
difference. We're not trying to replace
00:19:09
the advice or or replace the advice.
00:19:12
We're trying to get you like the inside
00:19:14
view of what's really happening when
00:19:16
something really goes wrong or goes
00:19:19
wonderfully in JP Morgan. Like how do we
00:19:22
mobilize? what are we talking about and
00:19:24
how do I how do I share that with you?
00:19:25
So that's one other question I have
00:19:27
whenever you see especially in financial
00:19:29
industries I've watched financial
00:19:31
industries t you know go across in the
00:19:34
last 25 years there have been a lot of
00:19:35
changes first when data came in and now
00:19:38
AI and one there was two issues that I
00:19:40
thought were interesting one the
00:19:41
customer trust issue which is a really
00:19:43
big issue in financial services because
00:19:45
I'm trusting you with my fortune I do
00:19:47
not want you to do something but the
00:19:49
other side of it is to get the agents or
00:19:53
the salespeople or whatever you the
00:19:54
adviserss I guess you call them the
00:19:56
adviserss to trust you and AI and like
00:19:59
typically the advisors don't trust
00:20:02
technology because they're afraid
00:20:04
they're going to be replaced. I mean and
00:20:06
you're not talking like that. you're
00:20:08
talking about it as an enhancement, but
00:20:11
I could imagine some resistance on the
00:20:13
side of the advisors like I don't think
00:20:16
this is a good road to go down because I
00:20:18
want to make sure my relationships are
00:20:20
mine and they're personal and that's
00:20:22
always been a fight with JP Morgan and
00:20:25
the adviserss who owns the customer and
00:20:28
I think the more the advisor invests in
00:20:30
these AI solutions they may feel
00:20:33
insecure and you've got to counter that.
00:20:36
I mean, a lot of the tools we're talking
00:20:38
about here are to enhance the advisor,
00:20:40
enhance the efficiency, per se. So,
00:20:43
like, imagine a world where I'm an
00:20:44
advisor and I'm spending all this time
00:20:47
trying to schedule a meeting with you or
00:20:49
I'm try I'm traveling to meet you or I
00:20:52
have to like download my thoughts and
00:20:54
like put my notes into a system,
00:20:56
>> right?
00:20:57
>> Imag worlds where like that's all taken
00:20:59
away. That means I have more time for
00:21:01
you more.
00:21:02
>> Oh, that's a great feeling. do the
00:21:05
really high value stuff and not all
00:21:07
other stuff that was taking up my day.
00:21:09
And I think that's why I think that's a
00:21:11
really powerful way to work in part.
00:21:13
>> Absolutely.
00:21:14
>> I didn't know you could do that. So the
00:21:15
AI helps save the advisor time too.
00:21:19
>> Would do things they don't want to do
00:21:21
and let them do what they want to do.
00:21:23
>> Exactly. Think I just had a meeting with
00:21:24
you. Now in the in the old world, I'd
00:21:26
have to like take notes and then put
00:21:28
them into a system or My god, I would
00:21:30
put them into a system so I wouldn't
00:21:32
remember.
00:21:32
>> Yeah. But now that happened on the fly,
00:21:34
I could take my phone and just like with
00:21:36
your like
00:21:38
>> have notes and then I could also give
00:21:40
you like if we talked about five things
00:21:42
and you said oh I'd really be interested
00:21:44
in these five things. I can get them to
00:21:46
you right then and there
00:21:47
>> and there.
00:21:48
>> I love
00:21:48
>> AI is this together and saying here's
00:21:50
what Barbara needs.
00:21:51
>> Yeah, I love that point. It's an
00:21:53
interesting I was listening to an
00:21:54
example um discussed by an economist his
00:21:57
name is Justin Wolfers and he was saying
00:21:59
that he was making the point this is
00:22:00
your point Rosa he was making the point
00:22:02
about technology and he was pointing out
00:22:04
that it was very interesting that when
00:22:06
the technology changed where we could
00:22:08
actually have ATMs outside counting the
00:22:10
money and giving money that the
00:22:12
interesting thing that happened was that
00:22:14
the number of bank tellers actually went
00:22:16
up and the point was if this is man if
00:22:19
the technology is managed correctly
00:22:21
which is what you're saying Rosa And
00:22:22
what will happen is that the human
00:22:24
talent can become can get better at what
00:22:27
it really needs to do. This is Barbara's
00:22:28
point as well. Focus on that
00:22:30
relationship building part and all this
00:22:31
other stuff which is you know kind of
00:22:33
the work that needs to get done to sort
00:22:35
of you know be a pillar for that
00:22:36
relationship that can get automated and
00:22:38
like be part of an ecosystem where
00:22:39
everyone's learning from the
00:22:40
information. Is that a fair more than
00:22:42
just intelligence? It's also efficiency.
00:22:45
>> It's also efficiency as well.
00:22:47
It's all the no we call the no joy worm
00:22:50
you'd have to do.
00:22:52
>> Yes.
00:22:52
>> So Rosen, we only have a couple minutes
00:22:54
left, but I'm really curious. You've
00:22:56
been in this business for two two
00:22:58
decades. You've seen a lot of changes.
00:23:01
What what kind of conclusions are you
00:23:03
reaching about all this and what do you
00:23:05
see for the future?
00:23:07
>> I mean, I can't like I mean, what a time
00:23:09
to be alive like of all the times in the
00:23:11
world. like this to happen. Now I really
00:23:14
see a world where the impact of
00:23:17
marketers is going to rise
00:23:19
exponentially. Right? So I feel like we
00:23:22
had a lot of what I'm going to call like
00:23:24
logistical or nojoy work that we'd have
00:23:27
to do like in terms of workflows and
00:23:29
processes to just be able to create
00:23:32
things. And now that entire paradigm is
00:23:35
shifting.
00:23:35
>> I love that.
00:23:36
>> So that's what I'm most excited about.
00:23:38
>> Yes.
00:23:38
>> The paradigm is shifting.
00:23:40
>> Love that. paradigm shifting and the the
00:23:44
worth of a marketer is increasing
00:23:46
exponentially. So that's why I'd say
00:23:48
it's never been a better time to be a
00:23:49
marketer.
00:23:50
>> Love that.
00:23:50
>> And the first day of class where I speak
00:23:52
to all of my Wharton MBAs, Rosa, who
00:23:55
come into my class, they're all finance
00:23:57
people and they're like, "Oh my god,
00:23:58
here's America talking about marketing."
00:24:00
I'm going to say, "Don't listen to me.
00:24:01
Listen to what JP Morgan said about
00:24:04
marketing." And I'm going to play this
00:24:06
clip.
00:24:06
>> So when are this is a new platform? When
00:24:09
are you releasing this new platform, it
00:24:10
it that some of this AI generated stuff
00:24:13
is actually brand new, right?
00:24:15
>> Yeah. I mean, like what's great about JP
00:24:17
Morgan is like at the at the corporate
00:24:19
level, we've already released across um
00:24:22
across the firm like an LLM suite. So
00:24:24
already that efficiency is already in
00:24:27
play. We're in the works on on, you
00:24:29
know, building our platform. It'll be
00:24:31
out within the next quarter. So
00:24:34
>> look for our press release.
00:24:35
>> Oh, that's that's
00:24:37
>> exciting.
00:24:37
>> Yeah. Well, Rosarita, thank you so much
00:24:40
for joining us. Rosarita, who's the
00:24:42
global chief marketing officer at JP
00:24:44
Morgan and if people are interested in
00:24:46
learning more about this, where can they
00:24:48
go to find that out? Well, we have not
00:24:50
to plug this, but we have this great
00:24:52
Harvard Business School case um that
00:24:55
talks about everything that
00:24:57
>> Oh, that's cool.
00:24:57
>> At JP Morgan.
00:24:59
>> Yeah. You could go you could go read
00:25:01
that um and you'll really get an
00:25:03
insider's view of everything that we're
00:25:05
thinking about from the advisor lens.
00:25:07
That's on the marketing lens and and the
00:25:08
sales lens.
00:25:09
>> Yeah, we got to get we got to get on
00:25:11
that Americas. Um
00:25:14
>> anyway, thank you very much and thank
00:25:16
you all for joining us today. That's all
00:25:19
we have time to for. We'd like to thank
00:25:21
our producers Deian Simpkins, Aaron
00:25:23
Tren, and Marissa Rena. And thank you
00:25:25
all for listening. We'll be back next
00:25:27
week. Till then, this has been Marketing
00:25:29
Matters on the Wharton podcast network.
00:25:32
I'm Barbara Khan here with America's
00:25:34
Reed.
