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coming up next former head writer of Saturday Night Live Jim Downey Jim Downey Jim Downey James Downey yep
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my boss your boss right uh in a sense yeah he was a collaboratory writer he was David's boss David only David's contracts would be in
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seven to ten day increments seven to ten minutes I had one that I had a 12-year contract
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David would be Phil got a three year when I was [ __ ] they go we're gonna give you they give
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him like two years three million bucks or something for Phil Hartman when he re-upped when he did the very it's last
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year he did his initial five because he had power to do it I think you might have gone but he stayed no I only I only kick his David's always self-deprecating about his time on the essays yes well
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what happened was they were calling the summer and say if you got picked up again and you didn't know so I'd have to Lug my [ __ ] mattress out of my
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apartment get out of my apartment yeah cancel it come to LA and stay in my other one I shared with someone and then
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they'd hire me back and I go [ __ ] just tell me I'm hired so I don't have to stress the [ __ ] out I have to fly all the way back
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and getting a farm it's like I wasted even more money in time so I remember that because at the party you'd say sometimes to Lauren Michaels hey I'll
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see you Monday at the meeting Lauren goes perhaps and that was chilly and I'd pull Lauren
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aside and go Lauren come on I mean David's really funny would you just sign him up for at least two weeks I go who's
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the host Monday he goes we'll see if you'll know I go why because you might not need to know where
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should I sit in the Monday meeting room should I be up on the couch or should I just go Indian style on the floor
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um you can decide later uh Marcy you would make room for David I don't know if we Is It Michael Keaton who told you that I go well Lauren I'm on the show I have to write for him do you I go well I
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work here right do you do you David's going through that thing of like am I really on the show or not and he just sort of hangs around the soda machine
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um we should have them removed from the premises exactly it was tough out there so every year I'd get picked up and I
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never got more than a one-year pickup so it was tough so Jim Downing down a great great big writer we didn't say this head
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writer he he did first five years of SNL then he went and did the started Letterman for five years so two monster
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shows in there and then he returns to SNL as the head writer when I arrived yeah and uh he was head writer for like 11 years then he wrote he wrote update
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with Norm Macdonald stuff like he wrote he has a great resume he's like this big Presence at SNL that maybe some of you
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aren't as familiar with so this will be a little different flavor we do all kind a lot of people go just go with huge
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Stars I go guess what fans we're gonna be have some real Riders we're gonna have people down in the bowels Dennis said he's one of the he's the second most important person in the
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history of us now he is there's Lauren and then there's Jimmy such a big Powerhouse writer and forming the type
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of writing we're doing I had to go to Ida run my stuff stuff by him all the time and it's very hard to get his
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attention because the head writer is pulled in every direction so everyone is trying to get a hold of the head Rider
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to punch up their thing yeah he did all those Letterman bits at the beginning so he's he's great and uh he's kind of Ray
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close and he didn't know how to do Zoom so uh it's great we got him on to talk he never zoomed never been on a podcast
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never listened to a podcast yeah that's true right so he broke the seal on three
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things in in our little up time with Jim yeah anyway so I got another joke should
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I waste it here this is just a joke okay okay so here's how you could here's if a girl is having an orgasm if they if they're having a medium one
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they say yeah they're back me up on this they say oh my oh my oh my and if you're having a
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really good one they go oh God oh God oh God and if they're not having one they go oh Dana oh Dana
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yeah you guys why I heard this from reliable sources that when David is getting with a woman he has an orgasm he screams his own name God damn it
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that's why I do it in this room it's soundproof honey you just when you hear these things you go well how many orgasm
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verbal jokes do I have in my head that's the only one I remember that so I just heard it because someone did it to me so
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I had to do it to you even though you're a happily married man I just said this is funny I'll do I'll use Dana I was
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first I laughed then I was kind of delighted then I was offended this is all within three tenths of a second then
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I thought I'll come back with my experience his own name yeah and now we're even
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I hate to be named Stephen even Steven that would be the worst God what a [ __ ] nightmare name to have now we got Downey so Downey sorry we went off track there but that was a
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[ __ ] real win Jim Downey a very interesting person you could give him any subject in the world and leave the
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room he literally goes to libraries at Yale goes in and just reads what a nerd what a nerd what a neat what a genius nerd hey what are you reading
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nerd I'm reading agricultural manifestation early colonial sounds nerdy half the people there are Harvard and Yale and Cambridge they're all a bunch of nerds I wouldn't
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ask him he thought I was stupid when I joined because I went to Scottsdale Community College but
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I think he never answered the question so I think that's a yes you didn't know what Manifest Destiny was and I remember
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they just the writers were getting a room they'd laugh for hours do you what Spade didn't know what Manifest Destiny
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was [ __ ] oh I know I'd walk around with a thesaurus mostly for Dennis all right so then Jim
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Downey is going to talk and you're going to listen so do it [Music] Dana we're gonna put a pin in that story
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Downey my boss Robert Downey Jr's Uncle yeah yeah let's just say so is that real let's let's we've agreed everyone all
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parties have agreed that's the official line yeah um I'm related to Philip Carvey from from East Toronto but there's no Pizzazz
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to that no there's only five carveys in North America you've never met another car absolutely have never been another
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carvery but only weren't you born in Montana yes okay see I remember I remember things I know because it's like a Canadian David out of out of the Phoenix
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area amazing Scott's still easy yeah okay yeah what a memory you know uh Dana Jim uh when I got hired Jim is was my the head writer of SNL he's got a
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million credits we'll get to but just quickly when I got hired with Schneider we I think Jim you walked us through you
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know uh you had to walk us and say Here's your legal pad here's a wooden desk um jokes would come from but I had to come up with them and you go and then you sit
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at this desk and stare at that white wall and you sit at that one and um we're going to uh go from there so uh
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and that was everything I told you was true oh that was true there was no more than the truth yeah no one went like overboard with with uh what to do there well Jim Jim came over to my office
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after that and said I told him I told him good like you said anyway that's that's inside baseball but uh Jim and I
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had a kind of an inside joke about newcomers totally kidding it was part of The Hazing we all had to go through it
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except me because I you know it was starting in there so you were the original hazer at Harvard did you ever
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get pink bellied at Harvard um pink belly no we you know most of the brutal stuff the caning and the paddling had been phased down but uh I always
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thought it was an insane practice of just this psychosocial homoerotic hazing that would happen in men's dorms I just thought no no thank you kissing the Gunner's daughter it was
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called um no it's not none of that's true I was at the ASU I was at ASU gym which is a
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college it's not Harvard Frank cush running your I had Frank Kush knocking people around and uh I was getting hazed
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with uh they spray painted a number on you and you had to run around at four in the morning and uh bring everyone a river rock and then do shots and then
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they put oil and uh paprika on me and when they push this button they sprayed on you you had to say something they tell you to say um I was a little bit of a follower at the time I feel I wasn't really a leader
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uh and I did it and then I finally had to quit because uh I go this isn't getting me as much as I thought it would
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out of life at all but we went up hell I just had a river rock is that what is that well when you're this is great you're listening to the whole story and you pick something you like out of it
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River Rocks are there's Rivers uh in Arizona that are by Arizona State and they don't ever have any water in them so it's mostly rocks and at the bottom there's little smooth rocks from the uh
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flooding and rivers and what we have so you just have to climb down the river grab them and then carry them in a
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bucket they're super heavy and the idea is it's a [ __ ] drag I think that's the idea see I thought here I thought
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River Rock had to be code for something filthy or illicit that's the way your mind thinks that's
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the end sadly I'm sorry the creative mind now I feel I owe I owe the entire State of Arizona an apology for that and especially Arizona State University
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the Sun Devils yeah I love Arizona station yeah should we should we go a little bit like I don't know how much we can't cover the life of Jim Downey but we can say
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he was a very very young man out of Harvard and was hired to write on Saturday Night Live with the original
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cast that's right yeah that's fair right that's known more than the truth Bill Murray and I were hired the same week so we um were put in an office together and
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uh stayed there for Jesus yeah cool what would your thoughts do you remember like okay to me Bill Murray was always so intimidating I really like him but he
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just kind of scared me was he was he always like an intimidating figure because of his confidence or something
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right and would he know you if he saw you today I just want to bust his balls he actually I I know what you're saying in terms of Comedy he is
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he's not uh you know he can be a little intimidating you know there's some people who
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instantly they want to sort of join in uh and it's sort of the in invitation's always there too hey let's let's you know goof around and Billy is is not he's more like in life he's super
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friendly person you know he's a guy who yeah you walk down the street with him and and
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and he'll talk to everyone except like celebrity you know Paparazzi or stalkers he has a really good sense of when someone's just a real person in someone's a pro you know yeah I mean I
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had a front row seat on the 40th anniversary I was waiting to do chopped broccoli at the piano it was at medley
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and I'm just sitting there and then Bill comes out and he does a song on this and
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it practically stole the show his commitment was so extreme I told him afterwards it really was making me laugh
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you know there's a story behind that is the oldest piece I've ever been involved with from from
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conception to actual production that goes back to the fall like to like 1977 the Billy Billy would sing a fragment he would sing the fragment like Jaws get
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away from me jaws that thing and then I was always obsessed with with getting that on the show and so when the 40th anniversary thing came up I I said
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look I want to complete that that song I want to write the you know make it a song and so I I came up with the part about you know um the the
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um and now Jaws you found someone new tell me Josh you know uh what am I supposed to do am I not enough for you and then so we we added that and Paul
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Shaffer came up with the tagline you bastard just that's the final thing and then we um and so I was so obsessed with getting that on I'd never like push
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something harder and Billy was sort of okay whatever if you think because it never we'd never done anything with it
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ever in all those years but every few years I would I would bring it up and say God that's that should be that
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should appear somewhere and then when the time came to do the anniversary I had already
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sort of um I was singing the song and pitching it to Maya Rudolph and um I guess I guess Amy Poehler was in on it probably yeah uh and and
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um Heavenly Spivey who was a great writer who who of a younger generation who who worked on that that whole sequence and then but Billy was doing the Pebble Beach Pro-Am golf tournament
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and he he would not that thing ended well that's the night before so he would not hear of leaving early he not only had that I remember saying for his part but he he absolutely refused to duck out
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of it before was officially over so I think our thing was a Sunday night right it had to be right yeah that's when they
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do that very minimal rehearsal so the tournament ended like some kind of ceremony Saturday evening and so that was the earliest he would consider leaving so we had to get a private jet
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forming but he he made it he slept he arrived in the hotel I paid for which David Spade paid for I was really knocked out and then and then Billy like
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slept for an hour in his hotel room and then we got him to NBC did the one and only rehearsal with Paul Shaffer up
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believe it or not in our old office upstairs it just happened to be and then uh with Emily Spivey was there and then um and then we went down and then by the
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way I happened to wander through and check cue cards uh because I just you know by by habit and someone had changed you had taken out you bastard
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and and yes and not not because it's dirty but because it's offensive to people whose parents didn't bother to get married or something really so and I was like no one had run that by me and
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they also wouldn't let him say got you God damn Jaws because that supposedly is offensive to believing Christians and so yeah I just said you know what I will
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take this on myself it'll be my responsibility so I just changed it back and said if they have a problem with it they consume it no one's going to complain you will not get one call and
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they did not get any calls who has the balls to paint over that Picasso you and Bill Murray writing something and you're
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like let me take a swing well this is um let me punch it I ran into Emily after the fact and I said Emily what the what the hell was that were they she said oh yeah they just told me we couldn't do that and I said no no no you don't no no
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no no no yeah you know it's afterwards then they kind of seem to let it go because when I was doing the Italian
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waiters sketch with Victoria Jackson yes yes I put her on a table and you know Vicki's so funny in life she is the most game person ever and then yeah oh yeah and then she puts
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her legs over and I'm just talking and kind of moving and that was the dress show it killed then the air show kind of
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pretending to get me to me was either Schneider or Steve corn or Robert Smigel kind of going hey don't I didn't
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remember if they I kind of chose to ignore them yeah and then I did it anyway but that shows a word that's your
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book choose to kill yeah you're never it's always going to be on the performer I know that that kind of note was just there for like legal reasons or the equivalent to seven and we told him I
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gave him the note but in fact something that funny they're not going to complain
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of course people watch the show want that you know Jim one time I think you were there you were there my whole run
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I'm pretty sure probably yeah by the way just as an insert you were the head writer for 11 years
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26 to 97. and then let's get back to David's story exactly 30 years yeah like well 85 I hate to say that was not one of our better Seasons but 85 until
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through 95 yeah okay so David what was your browser so I was saying in that in that train of thought when I did an update with Dennis and he says uh I was
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doing it in and out list what's in and what's out yeah and one of them was uh uh not enunciating so you can get stuff
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on the air in going out and get some [ __ ] and and then Andrew Brewer comes back he well I see him in the hallway goes no no and I go he did good and then he goes I didn't say it didn't do good
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and he goes you have to fix it and he goes if we're in the hallway behind the Quick Change by the page desk and he
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goes I go come on don't take this away I got nothing he goes you can say but you
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can't say [ __ ] God damn it so I go out there and then I go up I'm scared because it's coming up
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in the bit it's making me so nervous then I go go out after the show and get some [ __ ] and it killed in Dennis because you're dead dude right when the
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commercial because you're fired because it killed too hard um it is over it's a it's a a matter of Will and then you know you will to
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Victory and then when you have Victory they can't touch you yeah if it bombs then there's a bigger problem if it
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bombs but fortunately we're not talking about that here yeah but I never heard I never heard Boo
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about the supposed um Jim did we have a the first censorship guy was he like Mr clockworthy did I imagine that with a bow tie I know the very first guy who was great was a guy named Jay otley who
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was had been literally a former male model and he was like super he looked like those guys in the 60s like cigarette ads he was just he's an extremely handsome man very
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distinguished middle-aged guy and nothing bothered him at all he was a censorship guy he was just kind of didn't seem like you had one after the first couple years I mean I don't I
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don't remember I don't remember being told there was anything that we couldn't do
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um and Jay otley was oh he was magnificent I mean everything but he would just kind of no that's fine don't
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worry about it really what was he there when I was there he's reporting to no one here he wasn't he was the first
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he was uh he was like a super he was an out out gay man he was just incredibly uh just a super cool guys like just uh you know he you know he like at least he
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struck me as like a Fred Astaire type you know just it was super elegant but they had seen everything nothing
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bothered him it and then he was replaced by Bill klotworthy that name and Billy had a little bow tie and he was very Stern Bill a little a
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little you know that we had rougher sledding with with Mr klotworthy but he was a decent guy I mean you could you
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could he would hear your arguments and then um well Roz Wyman she was head of Standards I remember having I remember her yeah and and I remember Dana you remember this piece that I I wrote with
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uh with Tom and Tom Davis it was the [ __ ] whip talk show oh yeah [Music] yeah we wouldn't he wouldn't let us say it was supposed to be [ __ ] whipped we
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had to end up with pee whipped and again I remember and again it was not because of the word [ __ ] like they gave it to
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you know yeah [ __ ] was fine it was the concept of [ __ ] whipped was offensive
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remember Roz Wyman saying to me as a woman I find this entirely offensive and that's when I figured out just like oh bastard wasn't about bastard being a dirty word it was by that time it was a
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a PC thing you know uh by the time we're talking about yeah the the fourth anniversary but as far as as far as [ __ ] whipped it was it was in it was uh
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you know insulting to women woman kind which I didn't really I think all women understand the concept of being [ __ ] whipped I don't think that was you know
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clockworthy wouldn't let me say when I first did church lady she had a couple penises in there your penis
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he said no so I I put in more stuff I cut peanuts robbing engorged bulbous bulbous and he got and Clockwork is like well this is terrific
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Satan stick bobison and Gorge he goes I love this just don't say really wow but I also I also thought you were you were you were going for the oldest trick of the book which even the NBC standards
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Department figured out after a while which was you loaded up with cannon fodder that you're that you can trade
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away oh you get rid of stuff you write stuff that you you don't even want but but it's it's they're just so you have something to yeah and then you can act
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like it's like Sailors it's like Sailors being a trinkets to trade with the natives you know and uh anyway you'll
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get this Slinky for this 18 acres of land it's like politicians the Bill's gonna cost 700 trillion yes it be 20 trillion well
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okay which president was that Dana that's the only president that wasn't an opinion I
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was actually trying to do I only do Bernie Sanders as a crosswalk guard okay don't put seat don't proceed the system is rigged
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no but I was trying to think of Bernie like that six trillion dollars I'll give you three trillion back what the [ __ ] is going on anyway
00:24:24
um oh wait by the way when you work with Billy Murray you didn't have to pee in a bottle in your dressing room like some people at the show did you
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um I don't recall doing it just for fun I think yeah one of our cast members did
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during my years in a bottle yeah and just left a bunch of bottles in his room oh it must have been Mr Christopher
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Farley no it actually wasn't Farley oh it wasn't Farley no wait a minute he put only [ __ ] out the window for fun
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he did wipe his butt with a USA Today once when we were uh I guess it was right before read through we love Chris
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he's the greatest and he doesn't even take his pants off you know Downey he uh he was um I know you loved him he um he
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had he would when he found Belushi's pants and wardrobe you know they they the Wardrobe was so extensive there and
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they would give him pants and for his size they would dig back and he would just look in and it would see in their
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written Belushi oh that's right oh my God these are [ __ ] Belushi's and then he'd put them on and then even if they
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gave him different pants he would put them under his pants no kidding because it was like good luck
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yeah he was so obsessed yeah there we go we would go in in like a team you know and uh to check him Frank and you know Frank and famously
00:25:54
impervious too yeah yeah manners and sensitivity and everything and so he he was always a good like shock troops you know to like he was the bombing
00:26:06
around that happened before we came up in the battlefield carriers yeah and so then I was usually the first wave in you know dancing through the minefields and he'd be in belushi'd be sitting there
00:26:18
staring you know sort of solemnly in his dressing room and I'd go like and then knock you know hey John
00:26:25
um yeah on this thing uh you know I mean it's great it's great to end it with and he'd instantly start um uh in that and it was it was
00:26:36
experience I had I had a um a friend of mine who who visited the show one time and Belushi and Danny had on The Blues Brothers as a warm-up which that's how
00:26:48
it began they warmed up you know the audiences and then right and then then they just you know decided we're going
00:26:54
to do this big time and anyway he was and that was and at that time that was all the Belushi really cared about it
00:27:01
seemed um and and so he he was what he lived for nothing more than compliments about
00:27:08
the Blues Brothers and so my friend my friend who was who was he was incapable of not being completely honest however insane it was in a situations so we were
00:27:22
he was sitting with me at the party he was a friend from high school and um and and and and I said hey John uh The Blues
00:27:30
Brothers awesome that was awesome once he goes hey thanks man and my friend just goes you need to time your heart uh
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you need to time your singing better with aykroyd's uh harmonica oh boy she's literally goes what did you say I said I said you need to time your
00:27:51
singing better with so he hadn't heard it you know with aykroyd's heart playing and so he goes there was nothing wrong with the timing of my singing with with
00:28:02
Aykroyd oh yeah there was yeah there was wow that's ballsy I didn't even understand he was like
00:28:13
he was like musically if you want to get it perfect he's like it's working I wouldn't worry about it by the way the Marshall is tapping the desk I mean that was me that was okay we'll keep around
00:28:25
that it's all right we can start I just said to him Lou I love everything about that bit the whole singing the blues
00:28:32
part I'm not at Key take it away from the blues don't sing yeah but just talk about sorry go ahead one of the reasons um Belushi and I got I got along much
00:28:43
probably better with Volusia than any of the other writers because he was from Wheaton Illinois and I had
00:28:50
cousins who Belushi knew who lived in Wheaton and that was essentially it so it was like I was like his cuz so he would he would talk to me and of course you
00:29:01
know all of the writers got on great with Dan Aykroyd so but he he was not nice to the women at the show I have to say and uh yeah
00:29:12
it was great with everybody yeah Danny's a sweetheart but what what would would uh Belushi ever like throw furniture or anything like because he was so powerful on screen you know he was such a potent
00:29:24
character did he ever do stuff backstage I mean you just think of him as a badass pirate and barely under control but I
00:29:31
never met him there's always this Menace below the surface but I never saw him I never saw he both Danny and and Billy
00:29:39
you know were more I I saw him you know get more physical but John I don't ever remember he just but he would have this way of sort of glowering and um but like
00:29:51
I say you know he when he there's certain moments that were so Belushi that uh him did you guys see ever see
00:29:58
the um him doing Mussolini at the uh it was the show we did from New Orleans where very little in that show actually worked but all the Belushi stuff did he
00:30:09
was doing we had one of those balconies you know there's in the French Quarter yeah
00:30:15
Lorraine Newman said it was a [ __ ] show down there it was crazy it was it was fun to do it and it was you know we I
00:30:22
ate a lot of great restaurants and and it was fun I'd never been to New Orleans before but the show itself was we
00:30:30
couldn't communicate with each other we were doing it at different locations all over the city but Belushi did this this
00:30:36
Mussolini thing where it was just pure Belushi and it was brilliant and with it with like a real like crowd below and it just had all the moves down and he also
00:30:47
did uh Michael o'donic who wrote this this thing um the uh winner of the hit hit Al hurt in the mouth of the brick contest I don't know the trumpet player
00:30:59
that trumpet player See this is something you've got to be at minimum my age to know the actual reference but Al
00:31:07
Hirt was famous New Orleans trumpet player and what what time somebody threw a brick at him so it's just Belushi playing trumpet
00:31:19
like very nervously like watching for the bricks coming I can't explain it I love it I invite you well he would
00:31:25
commit so so it was in that show yeah yeah um Belushi would just commit like crazy
00:31:31
was he doing drugs during shows or you just catch it was it more than after no no he after a party situation I don't
00:31:38
remember that ever interfering with it it was more when John was difficult it was more
00:31:44
um it was more just attitudinal things that I mean he did sort of he did when he got
00:31:51
into music he I think he the show ceased to be his absolute top priority yeah I remember because sometimes drugs make people moody in
00:32:03
quotes and sometimes with Farley I go I think you're being moody right now and I
00:32:09
wish we could find where that's coming from uh I wish we could trace it back to something but I remember that uh I I could imagine that John by the way I don't care if
00:32:20
John did drugs during the show I mean the shows are funny and they stand up as like you know my old childhood is based
00:32:27
on it it's the [ __ ] greatest so I don't give a [ __ ] but if people can do their job I think drunk is harder to
00:32:32
deal with when people are uh you deal with people to try to perform it can makes you slurrier and yeah you're not
00:32:40
nailing [ __ ] yeah I did Robert Downey Jr not wait a minute who was the guy was
00:32:45
the incendiary talk shows in New Jersey Morton Downey Jr no way related okay go on no way we're related and I think he's gone to the stars but he was really in
00:32:59
the tank I mean it was oh that's right on the show yeah he came on Church chat yeah he was like a Jerry Springer for the audience he was like one of the first like really incendiary [ __ ]
00:33:11
host that got everyone riled up drunk and sketch comedy that's tough I mean that's yeah I mean I'm not saying there
00:33:20
yeah well you guys would know better than I but I would think that it would be impossible if you're alone and from
00:33:26
an audience to be drunk you'd have to have a very weird kind of act to me no I've definitely I've had a
00:33:34
few uh cordials before I go on stage sometime it's just the pressures of life and um so you get it so I go on there I
00:33:42
saw the documentary on me heartache to swallow the Dark Side of bye-bye did you see that it's the one
00:33:53
that's the one so I'd have a few uh knocks as my dad would say and then uh but sometimes you're off your game a little bit you're right there's there's a fine line between hey I'm feeling good and then like [ __ ] what joke is that I
00:34:06
don't remember in the middle of a joke I don't know what's going on so but I have a question for you Jim but we all love
00:34:11
uh norm and uh at this OJ situation on update that people have asked me was was Norm leaving was it a direct result because you were I think you're writing for update with him right he was kind of
00:34:26
the producer and co-writer with Norm yeah you guys were like locked in a room doing it that was all you guys yeah Norm
00:34:32
on update was my one of my successful projects at the show was one that I it was entirely my he was my candidate
00:34:44
um in a very crowded field because the network had determined that Kevin they were not going to give Kevin another chance I personally thought yeah Kevin Nealon had been doing update from the
00:34:57
time Dennis left and um uh I personally have you know Neil Niecy Bonham about you know the dead but uh uh herb Sergeant was not doing Kevin any
00:35:10
favors the way he was running update and huh and it was hard to sort of to get to
00:35:16
get help to Kevin because you know it had to go through her had to go through herb and Herb was sort of
00:35:23
like ran interference and wouldn't no get through and everything so he didn't love my update pieces either I and so I
00:35:30
I um felt like the second week I met Norm that he would be a perfect guy if Kevin you know left the show or anything that and so when when the network announced now it was all
00:35:43
Meyer going no no no kneeland's out he's dead he's gone forget about it not happening so that started this thing where there were several different candidates but Norm was my guy and it
00:35:56
sort of he wasn't initially the favorite but he sort of survived and and um so as far as the OJ stuff is is concerned
00:36:07
um that if you remember the murders by persons as yeah unknown happened in June of 1994 which is when we were having this meeting out in La which by the way ended it was I was summoned out for the
00:36:23
first time to have a a notes meeting with uh as you know head writer slash producer of the show and um Lauren and I were out there at the NBC headquarters
00:36:34
and it was Donald allmeyer and Rick Ludwin and Warren Littlefield I think Bernie brillstein was in the meeting I'm pretty sure and um so they were and Omar
00:36:47
they were very unhappy with the show because the ratings had dropped and I thought it was we were on like a sugar
00:36:53
high the year before that in 90 293 from the Waynes world movie you know that that's going down political and we had the debates and stuff and so the
00:37:05
ratings dropped I'll I'll be albeit to a rating number that they would they would die for today yeah yeah yeah but but
00:37:12
anyway so they were they were giving us their notes and what they didn't like and everything and
00:37:18
um I had gone there um my marriage was falling apart because of the the time at the show and stuff
00:37:25
and so I kind of I was I was sort of feeling like I don't know if I want to keep doing this so my attitude was I'm
00:37:31
not going to do anything to save my job I'm not going to beg or plead or agree to any take you know I'm gonna just tell
00:37:38
them what I think and and if they don't like it it'll it's just as six and one to me if I get fired or not and in the end that sort of backfired because I heard they're like omire was impressed
00:37:50
by your Moxie he did which is not the intention but anyway so they were talking about update just said and Kevin
00:37:58
had to go I would never have put I would I love Kevin you still love him he was a
00:38:05
great favorite with the writers yeah and you just helped Kevin I I could have I thought if if they had been willing to
00:38:11
keep Kevin but get rid of herb I think that we could have turned that thing around but um but anyway that was not
00:38:18
the that was not the option available so anyway but the meeting the meeting ended
00:38:24
only because visiting hours were starting at LA county and and Omar had to go visit OJ wow that's why that meeting ended finally mercifully and so
00:38:36
then when the fall came uh there's a whole other story with how Norm came to be the guy but but Norm is doing update
00:38:43
and I told him at the beginning I said look I don't mean anything not nothing about her but attempts have been made in
00:38:51
the past to to help people doing update and that her blocked all efforts to because he's
00:38:58
got you know was threatened and Territorial and everything and so I told Norm like look we're not we're not going
00:39:04
to [ __ ] around we're not going to let her do to you what he did to Kevin and and so you can have your herb meeting
00:39:10
but you gotta have a later one with me because we're not I'm not [ __ ] around this time it's too important and and and
00:39:17
and you know yeah yeah that sounds great you know so so what what happened is we
00:39:23
first of all opened the piece up for the first time to lots and lots of writers so you suddenly
00:39:29
we've got a lot more writers contributing and and then we would just overrule decisions that herb made until
00:39:36
and Herb never I never even had a conversation with her about it and we just and so but the basically so to
00:39:43
answer your original question um the way Norm came to be fired was we just did the OJ jokes because they were funny it wasn't none of us had I remembered on for OJ or anything but but
00:39:55
it was he was in there which is every [ __ ] day too like there's you can't you can't avoid it yeah and so luckily
00:40:02
the timing couldn't have been betting of the trial open just before we went on the air we uh um and then the very next
00:40:10
year the fall of 95 the are the openings the week of the first show The Verdict came back hmm and so but anyway um he just every week I would hear
00:40:24
occasionally from Lauren and I knew it was omire calling him to complain but it was Lord would go like how how is it
00:40:31
that you and Norm seem to be the only people absolutely convinced of OJ's guilt and I would go like Lauren Lauren
00:40:38
come on come on I think it's I think it's hurting us with black audience and I said first of all we have it was very small second second
00:40:51
um I think I think could only help us because the you know black people know that that OJ did it come on and so and
00:40:58
so anyway finally um we did the first season of update which was 94.95 uh that was the trial
00:41:07
the second season a 95-96 of Norm's update that was the aftermath of the trial and the Civil Trial right and then we threw it we
00:41:19
threw in the 96-97 the third season just for for shits and Grandson we continue to do it so we did I'm sure we did an OJ joke at least one OJ joke every every show yeah for for
00:41:33
from 94 95 and 96 and then finally the fall of 97 you know that was Norm's fourth season and the season we were fired fall 97
00:41:46
package deals there was nothing to do there was nothing to do about O.J it would have felt like you feel it's
00:41:53
Overkill well no no that's not that no we like the overkill we always said of course I I heard this quote much later but I wish I'd known it Joseph Stalin you know Norm some of my comedy people
00:42:07
don't normally quote but yeah Joseph Stalin said quantity has a quality all its own it sounds like a David Hasselhoff jokes too yeah yeah that's right well we love and let me just
00:42:19
finish Sonny so the so we opened that season the fall 97 right spring 98. we didn't do any OJ jokes we didn't do any OJ chokes for the first eight shows and
00:42:33
then the Christmas it was a strong stretch of like it was like the bombardment has stopped and then
00:42:39
suddenly I think they stopped they have stopped you know it's it's peace in in the valley and then on the eighth show we did two OJ jokes because there was the one thing about Latrell Sprewell a
00:42:52
member of he was playing for the Knicks and he went nuts in a practice Yeah Yeah so we did a joke about Johnny and he hired Johnny Cochran as his
00:43:03
attorney and so we did a joke about it and Cochran has vowed to find the real choker and then then there was O.J if you remember this one OJ was in a restaurant in Brentwood and his presence
00:43:16
was bothering some of the other patrons so the the manager of the restaurant said ah Mr Simpson um
00:43:22
some of our our customers um have have um their concern and we're wondering if you would if you wouldn't mind um leaving and so OJ sued the restaurant but got something like 300
00:43:34
bucks like a free dinner or something so so we did our joke was in addition the restaurant must now set up uh individual or separate murderer and non-murderer I
00:43:47
know so so O.J so anyway I'm I'm at so we did that that was the Saturday show a couple days later I'm I'm in New Canaan visiting my little son and the first thing I see is the sound was off on the
00:44:01
TV and he's sitting in his high chair and he was like you know two years old I guess and so he looks up at the thing
00:44:08
and there's there's Chris Farley but with the sound off he didn't know exactly what it was he starts laughing hysterically just at the side of Chris
00:44:15
Farley and then the phone rings and it's Mike Shoemaker from the show was a producer at the show and he says couple
00:44:21
things uh Chris Farley's dead and you and Norm uh were fired so yeah and so apparently and the later not and guess guess what it was like
00:44:33
three years later Norm told me and he had never said this to me because if it were our positions were reversed I would have said it right away he said you know they um they told me like it wasn't you
00:44:47
know that they were only firing you that I was welcome to stay and I said I won't I won't do it without Downing and so
00:44:54
they said okay [ __ ] you know Be Our Guest so that's how Norm came to be fired he he went out of solidarity with
00:45:01
me so I think it's probably smart because you made it you guys together were really good it probably would have he would have been he would have been he's great but you know um you're great right
00:45:12
I don't ever bring a joke to you or an idea to do that even you thought maybe went too far because he he did no one
00:45:19
really Norm yeah yeah there's there's actually what because he he really would push the envelope you know it was what
00:45:25
see with Norm even with me like I'd occasionally and you guys knew yeah Hollywood minute you'd say I dare you to do that I'm like I can't I don't like I
00:45:37
got scared me like you're such a [ __ ] but but when when you were dealing with Norm he would he would occasionally like he would be in his Canadian Geezer mode
00:45:51
and you couldn't get him out of it he would just have to ride it out you just have to go okay he's going to be doing
00:45:57
like yeah I'm sorry I don't quite all that right I hear you but I I don't understand
00:46:06
okay Norm when you're ready to talk as Norm Macdonald I'm I'm here you know and but anyway so sometimes he would come in with things where he was clearly joking
00:46:17
and I would never take the bait but one time he had this choke which there's not
00:46:22
a lot of jokes that offend me you know they certainly don't offend me in the conventional ways but they often offend me it's just
00:46:30
I think they're just terrible jokes but this one kind of did in a way in that sense but he had this joke where
00:46:37
it was uh well Woody Allen is dating again and it was the image of the naked Vietnamese girl running down the road after the name Palm attack that old photo that old famous old photo and so
00:46:50
my only reaction to that was like North come on you guys come on it's funny it's funny Norm no it's no no and that to this day
00:47:01
I don't know and and I said no I'm pleased no if you do that joke in front of an audience a you're going to take down the rest of the show the next three shows
00:47:16
the temperature in the in the studio down 30 degrees there'll be like ice on people's you know beards and stuff you can't do that right no no come on it's funny so they he and Frank and Frank was
00:47:29
backing him on and Frank Sebastiano update writer ever and he um oh he loves it and so and so and Frank was not I couldn't I would look over at Frank and Frank was not he wasn't like winking or
00:47:42
anything and so I go okay so we tried it and dressed and it had precisely the effect I thought it would although who
00:47:49
knows about future shows but anyway it was like this like this Collective giant gasp and then uh so after that Norm was willing to give it up and then we didn't
00:48:01
do it on air obviously but like years later so that was like I'm going to say that was maybe 1996. so
00:48:08
at least 10 years later Steve Higgins you know his current producer of the show comes up to me and
00:48:15
says do you ever remember and we're looking for a sound effect of an audience being like horrified
00:48:21
offended and I got I got it I got it so I said like I directed them to that update and I said just I'm pretty sure if you take that thing the other thing
00:48:34
it will be uncorrupted by any laughter so you'll get a nice clean Shake of of gasping and horror and so they they I didn't remember which show was from so they had to like plow through a lot of
00:48:47
dress rehearsals I guess but a few hours later Higgins said oh my God we got it and it is everything you've said they use it and I'm to this day I'm pretty sure they have it like on a cart so
00:49:01
whenever they need the sound effect of something not just not getting a response but getting kind of active hate
00:49:08
you know yeah it was that moment yeah yeah he's he's got some in real life even his act you know he's we do stand up on the road and you know you're always telling rougher stuff to each
00:49:20
other but he was way ballsier than someone like me as far as I do stuff that kind of rubs people wrong sometimes but his could really like he would always appreciate it know what you're
00:49:32
talking about Dave and I know the stuff of yours that you're referring to but I always loved it yeah well you would have
00:49:38
done it you just didn't have the ball I did not but when we would do um when we would do the show Dana um I think you'll
00:49:45
you'll know because you can ask about uh the bush stuff but when we would do any
00:49:51
sketch I I don't think performers in general you're saying about Belushi love notes
00:49:56
and if you think you're any good which I think we all think we're pretty good on the show at least at some level
00:50:02
um insecure but we think we have something it's hard to take notes from people but at SNL it it wasn't hard
00:50:08
because when I got to a rewrite table and I was going to get the help of everyone you couldn't look around there
00:50:13
and it was like the dirty dozen of great people going I'm gonna get a free joke from Conan I'm gonna get one from Downey
00:50:20
I'm gonna get one from Schneider who does good jokes I get uh Jack Handel throwing in smigiel it's so it's unreal
00:50:27
so and Downey was the king of that so if you can get down his attention for a few minutes at three in the morning then
00:50:34
you're going to get it's going to be better no matter what being a head writer and having everyone wanting to get his ear to get that line or get that approval or get a different take on your
00:50:46
angle and that that's exhausting right Jim just little Knox I will say this and it's a shame that um that when I worked with you guys I didn't
00:50:57
I mean it was all in retrospect and I thought I listened on that for any help I may have given you guys I'm I
00:51:04
love hearing that we're going to get into how much my heart but um but I um I realized I was much happier my first four years at the show and when I
00:51:16
returned to the show after my second firing I returned to the show in um 2000 and at that point when I came back I said okay here's the deal I'm gonna be just a regular sketchwriter I am not
00:51:31
going to be responsible I'm not going to be the reason someone's piece got got on or didn't get on uh uh I'm I'm not gonna
00:51:39
be if someone comes to me as a friend one to one one-on-one just do you have any thoughts on this I'm happy to but I'm not going to consider it my job and I'm going to stay completely out of all
00:51:51
office politics and right from home which is important so I don't have to stay up all night and I gotta say I was
00:51:58
much happier during my first four years at the show and my last whatever that was 2000 2012 like another 12 years but
00:52:10
that middle section where I knew both you guys I when I was head writer slash producer which was sort of like it's like being a player coach and it's kind of tough it's tough yeah but I mean
00:52:23
I did and it really takes a lot of time away from from writing my own stuff which my that my only my ego is in
00:52:32
writing so that anything that where I felt like I I didn't have the space to sort of go off on my own and come up with something um you know uh so I I but I did I know
00:52:45
that I I got some junk baskets you know as we would call them you know just someone was really right there with it
00:52:52
and I just was able to come up with the best way or something it's a big example
00:52:57
of an of something you elevated a bit that was really very silly it was me doing George Michael on update and I had
00:53:04
all the get up on it and it was all about look at my butt look at my butt and it was like my butt has magical
00:53:10
powers and we're doing these things about magical powers you came up with the line if you put a wilted flower near
00:53:18
my bottom it blooms okay that sounds that's just a little bit an assist that took it to another level oh yeah David Schneider would be sleeping outside your office and you crack the door to go get
00:53:32
a cup of coffee all right help me with copy machine and it was tough because we'd wait
00:53:37
outside there we'd go we'd usually go to dinner at like that Mexican restaurant we'd walk down or we'd always say he sent me oh yeah or we go to Walling
00:53:44
Justice or whatever and then we'd come back and then everyone's stalling to write and I'm like oh and then by the time I get notes that maybe this is
00:53:51
something I shouldn't write it was 2 30. and I'm like wait this is all I have so I'd go try to jump on something else and
00:53:58
help out but uh can we uh go ahead go ahead I just thought we should give uh Jim uh one of your uh talents is political comedy and so the we had the
00:54:10
campaign this is in the late 80s so we had Dukakis the Democrat nominee for president versus the guy I ended up doing Bush senior and there was a really
00:54:22
great line in their debate I didn't have a good Bush at that point but love it's had that line that just sort of used a
00:54:29
memorable line yeah do you remember it well no I was going to say you say you didn't I thought your bush was great I
00:54:34
mean and it got better it got put on it got Wilder over time we should talk about that too because you being Al and especially you rhythmically kept extending it and I was doing Lazy syntax
00:54:48
that guy over there doing that thing and then eventually it came to and and I remember specifically Jim saying this to
00:54:55
me oh it's going to be not ga da yeah is that spelled on the cue card oh yeah yeah
00:55:09
so we did we did extend the rhythms which uh the audience went with us you know but the line that I don't know who wrote that line when I as Bush was going all over the place that guy down there
00:55:22
doing that thing going to for like a minute and then love it as dukaku says I can't believe I'm losing to this guy exactly like you but that was maybe it was Franklin I'm pretty sure but it was
00:55:34
a great line yeah yeah yeah and and uh it was it was the idea was it was supposed to
00:55:40
work both ways that it was like a commentary on Bush but is also commentary on dukakis's
00:55:47
uh his confidence you know it was unshakable he always acted like he he just you know uh kicked
00:55:55
ass you know but sometimes I would do George Bush Senior I would think I was going to be
00:56:01
in trouble after I finished because I would go so out there with it you know I'd be like that thing guy over there
00:56:07
moving in that Saddam Hussein one that was you once you established it it was just you if you looked at maybe the first time you did George Bush and one of the last times you did Bush it got
00:56:20
very out there with the leap and people would go I had no idea there you know how much it had evolved but that was just you having more and more fun and and over time and people
00:56:33
who'd been watching the show certainly had no idea you know they they that they were just leading them along on this journey that that happened that would
00:56:44
relate to this which was I don't know if this has happened to you Jim but or David but uh I was doing Vegas with
00:56:50
Lovitz and he went to a party and he ran into Gene Kelly's Widow this like four years ago wow what she
00:56:59
said okay Gene Kelly's Widow and she said tell Dana because he's telling me John's telling me that Gene loved his
00:57:06
George Bush Senior every time he was on Gene Kelly would say quiet everybody Dana's on you know and so that kind of blows my mind see that's that stuff's
00:57:18
fantastic I mean when you get feedback back I gotta be honest with you I I I guess I'm learning that Gene Kelly was alive into the into the late 80s early 90s but you I I had the Superstar team
00:57:33
because you and Al are different flavors of writer yeah and that having both of you and me in the center and the three
00:57:40
of us really created this thing that got huge so anyway well we were always we're
00:57:45
always able like the the thing about our openings which I don't know if your audience knows that we call them cold openings because you come right up on them without any warning first I am and
00:57:57
and the the ideas of the studio is usually so clogged with sets because we burn a lot
00:58:04
of sketches that are dropped after a dress rehearsal still require sets and take up space and things so the ideal cold opening has to be something really simple uh easy to do and so we that's
00:58:19
why there's there in in over the history of the show there have been a lot of Oval Office the whoever is present at the time delivering a message straight to the camera because it's something you
00:58:30
can write on a Friday night so that it can be super topical you don't have to build much and it's usually at home base where they do the monologue correct yep yep and so
00:58:42
it makes it it makes it um and like when Dana was doing Bush it was just something that you could he could be you know I mean we weren't didn't have to worry about Dana so so it
00:58:54
was just like we we figure out whatever the idea was going to be if we could think of one at all and then but a lot
00:59:00
of times a lot of times Dana throw it out send you out there not a lot in terms of the script and we just relied on you to the red light goes on and you're gonna Bush it up and you know and
00:59:12
we're gonna have something well some sometimes I'd come in Saturday morning at noon and then I would hear we're
00:59:19
doing a bush tonight you know sometimes this sometimes it's Friday night but sometimes Saturday morning okay and then
00:59:25
you and I guess we're but we would we would uh we would often have to uh I know there weren't a whole lot of them In fairness that that you got by Wednesday or that you're we
00:59:37
were able to do about Wednesday they tended to be a Friday night thing I remember one that was planned was
00:59:44
was remains one of my favorite Bush pieces it was the um it was the um if if you guys remember back he was accused of because of the Willie Horton ads and stuff of doing a lot of negative
00:59:57
campaigning against Dukakis so that the joke was he had won the election you know he was
01:00:04
president-elect but they still had plenty of money left over so they decided to do one more negative ad you
01:00:11
know and so it was the last negative ad it was like a kind of a and and it was it was you sitting with your grandkids like eating popcorn sort of screaming the negative ad
01:00:23
but I just remember that as one that stood out because I know we had done that for read through I remember you
01:00:29
were like really it's it read through you know it's that early that stunned me [Music] also uh when you when I I left by then
01:00:42
so did Dana but were you around I think I read that you said Obama was very tough to do because no hooks and I think
01:00:48
that is true Dana's sort of does one now it's pretty good but I think at the time very dicey territory
01:00:56
the thing I discovered with Obama I mean I would have said if I did say that I'd probably change my mind pretty quickly
01:01:02
because he definitely I mean I know Dana does a great Obama and I've seen I've seen other people do really I mean so he's he's not he's a lot easier to do than say a Biden which I consider like
01:01:14
really close to 10 out of 10. no difficulty come on I'm not kidding myself difficult yes it's an extreme that's
01:01:29
much harder than Obama don't you agree yes Obama I only had two hooks one was he worked his pauses so brilliantly yeah we're gonna do some things for the American people yeah five four three
01:01:44
that's what we got to do and the people go there and then the other one he did was politically which was funny and they
01:01:51
all do it to a point I know Biden does his talk try to talk things into reality you know so during Russia's taking over
01:01:58
Crimea that's not that's not that they ought not been doing that that's not conducive you know tanks are rolling in
01:02:05
that's not conducive the international relations that's not a good thing shouldn't be doing that no that's a
01:02:11
great Obama I'm just saying that my only point was that Obama I initially thought like oh that's he's going to be tough I guess maybe if I had
01:02:21
expressed it better I would have said there's a factor of people liked Obama so much more than they liked any of the other people were talking about and also
01:02:33
Obama is a genuinely cool guy I mean he yeah it gets in the way of right no doubt because he actually is really funny idiot he's not an idiot you know he's the funniest president if you have seen
01:02:47
him like at the White House Correspondents Dinner oh yeah things like that he's actually really funny he destroyed Trump and then Trump ran
01:02:53
because of that yeah yeah but he so but the audience I've discovered doesn't really like when if they think
01:03:04
you're making fun of Obama they they don't like start they start sitting back with their arms across their chest going
01:03:10
you know tighten up a bit yeah think again you know like we talked about briefly just that idea of teaching or something that's overtly has a political
01:03:21
point of view and then have doing something that has a uh using the word silly like I would do to to break it with the audience for me so they'd be comfortable I would do him doing nursery
01:03:32
rhymes yes and I would couch it as if no matter what Obama says you can't not listen jug and Jill went up the hill defensive bill of water Jack came down
01:03:43
Joe fell down that is that is a great Insight because yes an audience will be more harmless
01:03:51
yeah well perfect but it's when they feel that you're criticizing him and someone even when you're not right see
01:03:59
Trump I I missed the entire Trump thing because I left the show uh in the spring
01:04:06
of 20 the May 2013 was my last show and I was never a coyote in your house a little a little doggy oh we'll just have to ride it out it's it's a really strong factor it's a
01:04:19
charm I thought he'd say something like I'll make it stop I'm afraid I can't do anything about the dog will stop barking in a second after the danger has passed
01:04:33
the dog didn't like my Obama the dog is offended by my Obama tulip is a fan of all it's not I didn't name the dog you
01:04:46
were there for you mean for the Baldwin Trump I wasn't there for the Baldwin Trump I mean they the way they um see Trump was the exact opposite of the way
01:04:58
the show treated Obama I mean the show went the show was absolutely everyone there was a huge Obama fan so there was not going to be anything really critical of Obama you could put him in certain
01:05:10
situations where he got to be funny sort of [ __ ] on Republicans or else if if it was there were certain things I wrote a thing with Seth Meyers where um is
01:05:25
Obama meeting with the premier of China and and the and the the Chinese Premier was just busting in on you owe us money you know said it was the translator so
01:05:36
so it was it was Will Forte who was [ __ ] brilliant in that piece God I love will Ford we love him he did this
01:05:43
crazy he did um I can't think of the the was it the same Premier thing anyway at
01:05:49
the Chinese uh Premier and and uh Naseem hadrad was the translator and you guys probably know that I love to write pieces where someone's translating for someone else it's sort of that's funny
01:06:01
it's been a thing of mine ever since the Spanish game show back in like 1978 and
01:06:07
anyway so it was um let's see if it drives doing the Translating and and the guy would speak in China uh and Chinese
01:06:14
and it'd be like when are we getting our money and then I'll let like uh you know and it's like
01:06:20
and then the premier would speak and she would translate like um um uh uh uh uh does does the premiere look like Mrs Obama does it in the what
01:06:33
you go does the premier look like Mrs Obama then why are you trying to do sex to him
01:06:40
you know that was all kind of we want our money you know and anyway so that we were able to I love that because we weren't able it we did we didn't play as like we were critical of Obama but the
01:06:53
last piece the last political piece I ever wrote I came back it was an idea I had in like the summer of like it was before Trump so it must have been like 2014. I had a I had an idea and I
01:07:08
called up Lauren said hey can I turn in an idea for cold opening and it was Obama talking about Isis and uh he this is when Obama had been
01:07:20
in all of his speeches he kept saying like now there is no connection between Isis and the religion of Islam that's
01:07:29
just that's not that's not a thing I would ever say you know it's there's no connection and so it was the idea the
01:07:36
premise was Obama addressed in the nation saying that he just he'd been doing some thinking and he realized
01:07:42
there's a huge connection between Isis and Islam and if you think about it I mean there's one on the side there's the whole thing with the you know with with the Allahu Akbar I hadn't thought about
01:07:55
that at the time but that's that's Pro it's anyway it played and so I remember it was very popular with you know Frank and the other people I showed it to and
01:08:05
and we did it and I remember showing it to a friend of mine uh Lawrence O'Donnell who who you know has the lawyer on MSNBC was a college roommate of mine and and and he and they showed
01:08:18
it to him and he says I think they're going to think you're making fun of Obama I said but no it's silly it's silly it's
01:08:26
more it's more making fun of of sticking to that idea that like because it was kind of silly to keep insisting
01:08:32
absolutely that oh you know Isis has nothing to do nothing at all I tell you and so and so and and he was right it played to Absolute silence wow and and
01:08:44
and and kind of surprised people at the show uh because I gotta say I mean I don't know I might not be the best judge of it but I I thought it was pretty funny had some good jokes and I
01:08:56
don't remember those jokes so I would share them with you but but it played absolute silence
01:09:02
and so I realized that that was that's a bit of a third rail if you're going to do Obama you have to but I remember pitching he he came to the show when he was a candidate and um
01:09:16
he there was we were in a long line in the hallway because the Secret Service you know they wanted you know space to be able to they sort of blocked off the hallway we're like lined up shaking his
01:09:28
hand was like a receiving line and I remember he's going along sort of you know a word with each guy and then I
01:09:34
said like uh you know I grew up in Joliet and he like he started like an arrow hitting a thing and quivering you know he just stops dead and then gave me like three or four minutes right because
01:09:46
uh and so and he was showing off his knowledge of Joliet which is impressive I have to say really you know so if
01:09:53
you've been you know I've been down at six corners on Larkin I go yeah you know and anyway so upstairs later
01:10:00
we were he was going to do something on the show and I'd written something for him and and I I know this would be more
01:10:07
effective as a story if I remembered exactly what it was but and I watched him laugh as he read it he was chuckling
01:10:14
to himself and then just said of course you know I can't do this right and I said well I was afraid you might think that so for our next podcast I will dig
01:10:25
up that thing I know I didn't throw it away but you know there was something about Obama was a
01:10:32
guy who you knew he's basically a funny guy so you can at least pitch stuff to him but like when McCain did the show
01:10:40
um there was friends try to get it on no no but McCain McCain had this thing where and people have sort of Forgotten this aspect of his career but he was um
01:10:56
yeah like a scourge of wasteful government spending so David you would know this from Arizona seeing yeah
01:11:03
um yeah but he was always talking about my friends um why are we what is this makes no
01:11:11
sense at all and anyway he um so I had this thing where he was just complaining about wasteful spending and and one of the one of the jokes almost my favorite joke in the piece was um was uh um and
01:11:25
what about this my friends a government program that warns convicted child molesters when a 10 year
01:11:32
old boy moves into their neighborhood what is the point I mean I don't understand 40 billion dollars for this
01:11:39
program and it's not even the money it's not even the money I would be against it
01:11:44
if it were free but 40 billion dollars so so he goes ah no this is funny I don't know about every joke in it and so like 10
01:11:57
minutes later like this terrified Aid it comes up to me and goes um the P this thing about the child
01:12:03
molester I mean that that's that's not in the piece right I mean that that that's not going to be in the piece and
01:12:09
I go well yeah I mean he didn't object because no no no that that's that's not anything and then the same guy with
01:12:15
would appear like every like half an hour let's go like that's that's still not in the piece right it's right that's
01:12:23
that's not in the piece anyway well you know I find that you of course everyone thought I went to cards and put it in the piece again don't you think I mean maybe we
01:12:36
should finish with this because you also uh like I find people laugh at Republicans more easily like I would do George in Texas they'd go crazy uh Trump
01:12:47
supporters hardcore supporters laughing their ass off at Trump but you and Will Ferrell and um and Daryl Daryl Hammond
01:12:56
you know hooked up for that debate stuff and you you came up of course famously with a word that sort of defined George
01:13:03
W bush in the year strategically what oh yeah yeah of course well that was um sorry anyway that was great I had to take it further
01:13:14
in my stand-up hack because you guys were writing so funny I just finally went to to the nth degree with W like
01:13:20
Bud glass all Americans we're gonna poach feed them here at home and on abroad iridiculous a race Creedence Clearwater or colored balloons you know I just had
01:13:32
to go insane but we'll we'll own that he was brilliant at it and so was Daryl's Gore was great yeah Daryl Daryl um that
01:13:41
was a case of with Daryl's Gore was a was a real um you know Daryl's very serious about
01:13:47
his especially his political Impressions and he he breaks them down to like the little phonemes and little and it'll say like I've seen this I noticed this thing where Gore does kind of Ayah thing when
01:14:02
he's saying yellow or something and like these really like they're like like 10 decimal place kind of observations you know and then I would come at him with a with a more like a wide scale kind of
01:14:18
wide Focus kind of thing like or wide angle maybe it's what I'm searching for but but like I remembered I had noticed
01:14:25
that uh the way Gore had that Rhythm where I go uh Jim uh in my plan but yeah yeah his plan and they had that kind of and I remember working with him was like
01:14:39
me working from one end of the Continuum and him from the other and meeting in the middle of night I was really
01:14:47
um it it wasn't I mean uh I did you know have a lot to do with his impression I loved writing for that character and uh in a way I
01:14:59
would have probably had more fun in a way if he had been elected just because it was I thought we said Gore was
01:15:04
inherently interesting and and weird he was a Tennessee gentleman as well I look at it because I would do it for my wife
01:15:11
and I'm just doing this and she goes and she thinks it's so exaggerate it's like
01:15:17
well I take umbridgecon Madam he's a Tennessee gentleman and that that was kind of my key into it no no and that that is exactly right and but I mean you it should be a little exaggerated I mean
01:15:29
yeah yeah you you identify that that that kind of sibilant thing and then you have every right to accentuate it you know don't take it I mean this planet is
01:15:42
getting hot I [ __ ] you not anyway okay Jim my swear words my last two David has his final question no why are we wrapping this up this is going great it's going really it's going
01:15:55
to be a two-parters you get extra one is okay yeah I I was trying to look over all the great ones you you'd written or
01:16:01
had but but uh Chippendales is one of the all-time change Bank shipment deal there's so many that you were there that we were there tell the Chippendales story or you're because well that was
01:16:12
just you know that's a top ten for a lot of people absolutely ties into David Spade
01:16:18
so I I I hope I'm right about this and I should ask up David my memory okay my memory is
01:16:27
that you arrived for the fall of 90 spring of 91 season yes or no uh yes and no I did four shows with Rob at the end of the year with Dice Clay Candace
01:16:40
Baldwin yeah then I came back and we and Farley and rock joined and that was our first official like
01:16:46
here so that's that's 90 91 or something and then because because I had been talking to our our friend Robert Smigel
01:16:53
and he had looked it up and said like no David arrived after Farley and I said oh
01:16:59
no no I I remember him I thought so I had been convinced by Robert I love Robert but and his children dates he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about he had been convinced that
01:17:13
you had come after Farley so that kind of does queer this story a little bit but but I I you know I I I I know that
01:17:21
I've said this to to Dana that I um I one time made the mistake when I I didn't get my first computer until uh this week well no 2013 was the first
01:17:36
time I ever used a computer and I had been given an absolute state-of-the-art MacBook Pro by Lauren as a present in 2004 and it didn't come out of the
01:17:48
shrink wrap until for nine years and so by which time it was no longer state of the art but yeah so the first time I had done a different interview for a different project it was for this this
01:17:59
book um poking a dead frog it was an interviews with comedy writers and and anyway so I was the one I wanted to see something about the book so I Googled it and then I see my name and I sort of
01:18:12
click on that and my name was mentioned in a nasty review where the guy especially went after me and so and that
01:18:19
was the experience was so upsetting that I vowed I will never again click on anything I might see in my and even
01:18:26
someone like me I'm not nothing like you guys but you know there I have like a Wikipedia page and so I've never looked at it because I saw to me it's like Medusa you know I dare not
01:18:38
look at so I occasionally will ask my son to um would you check my Wikipedia page see
01:18:44
if there's anything I need to worry about mostly it's just inaccuracies but occasionally there's been stuff that
01:18:50
definitely is problematic but so anyway I extended this for the most part to anything on YouTube although if it's a piece that I wrote I'm willing to look
01:19:02
at that piece now and again but they only recently put the Chippendales piece up on YouTube it hadn't been up there for a long time I'm pretty sure
01:19:12
I was looking at like like Ricky Gervais or something you know I wasn't even looking at a Saturday Night Live thing and then I see in the right hand column you know all the suggestions and there's
01:19:25
um Chippendales like holy [ __ ] I haven't looked at this since since it aired it does that on Pornhub
01:19:30
too so this was this is like 20 it was from 1990 so that's going to be like 20 years at least so I look at the pace and these pieces never you I I that's one of
01:19:43
the reasons I don't look at them much is because they always they're Never As Good As you might remember them and and
01:19:49
sometimes much worse than that but I but in this case it was the comments and the
01:19:54
comments were like 90 better than 90 percent Savage Oh really they hated it no no and all of it was about how cruel and
01:20:08
how awful how evil how and you come on you guys have to back me up on this sometimes it was all we could do to get Farley to keep his clothes
01:20:19
okay so somebody with their point was just right what what goes through the mind of a writer what to say funny it's it's funny to make poor Chris Farley uh
01:20:32
take his clothes off for this sketch it's just humiliating someone over something he can't help and so and and
01:20:39
the only reason I would have done the thing is because Farley was so he loved doing that for so naked yeah he loved getting it anyway so but David here's where you come into the story
01:20:51
fine so I'm reading like comment after comment because I kept reading because I'm hoping it's going to turn around you
01:20:58
know in the flow and then someone's going hey let me stick up for the piece it didn't happen and so and so I get to
01:21:04
like comment 14 and then there's this guy who comes and it's like okay you guys want the story yeah the story I
01:21:11
said here's the here's the story I happen to know some people who shared it with me David Spade was walking down the hall in
01:21:19
Saturday Night Live and he hears sobbing coming from Chris Farley's office so he
01:21:24
goes and Chris what's the matter with Farley's at his desk just crying his eyes out and and David Goes Chris
01:21:30
something wrong what's happening is your spaghetti not here yet barley Farley through his tears is
01:21:38
sitting like tears they want me to do this piece and it's so humiliating and I I just don't want to do it but I'm terrified I'll be fired if I don't do the peace and David says what what piece
01:21:51
do they what is this because they want me to be naked in this Chippendale male stripper piece and of course the person
01:21:57
obviously doesn't know that you would be fully aware of the piece yeah so anyway so according to the story
01:22:05
you read the script just aghast yeah and as you're going through a picture oh my
01:22:11
God oh my God every day that got worse I know so then you said Chris stay right here you marched down to Lauren's office and said if you air that piece I quit
01:22:22
my job it's not worth it you're gonna do this kind of thing they're my friend Chris Farley and people are going oh my
01:22:28
God that's so great it's like Spade seems like a great guy yeah I walk back and they go uh I go hey Lauren doesn't want to talk to me so I
01:22:40
guess you're gonna have to do it I have no I have nuts here that might have been the response is any of that true David is any of that true
01:22:52
isn't that true um did you go to Lauren's office no I know that uh I know that Chris loved that sketch and I was standing very close watching it going I didn't I I knew it was like a 10 out of
01:23:05
10. I didn't know that it would have the impact for years and years of like one of the best ever and he was so pumped it
01:23:11
was pretty early on where it solidified him as like such a star there's no way the way he leaned into it into that piece that if there had been any believe
01:23:21
me I I never would do a piece where I felt like I was asking some person to be humiliated but Farley just was that yeah [ __ ] yeah I'll do it I'm not oh my God and one of the things I really think
01:23:35
that's what sort of bonded him with the audience that was his fourth show he didn't care oh it was a fourth show see
01:23:41
I knew when it was early it was early on and it was like whoa the reason I started by asking you David if you
01:23:47
remembered precisely when you came was because I was talking to Robert Smigel uh this past summer I suppose and and I
01:23:55
mentioned this experience of like man I I I made the mistake maybe it wasn't a mistake but I I read the comments on
01:24:02
Chippendales and whoa boy it was like better than nine to one against it was like I have very few friends on that Comet thread you know and so and he goes
01:24:13
well let me check so he he's tapping something out on his computer he goes like okay David Spade didn't even start
01:24:19
at the show until like it was another three shows after Chippendales after Swayze are you serious really and he goes yeah that's so that'll next time you read a comment that's but of course
01:24:30
as it turns out Robert was wrong well you know Jim Another Side Story is when I went to
01:24:36
rewrite or you know the Tuesday night the host gets trotted around and we get to talk to him all the writers so he was
01:24:43
in The Writer's room by himself and I was coming down the hallway and it was like midnight and it was a PR person I
01:24:49
said hey uh hey and I start to go and choose hi uh can I help you and I go oh I just want
01:24:55
to talk to Patrick and she goes and you are and I go uh David's face she was in what is this regarding and I go I'm just a writer I just want to and she goes oh it's so crazy he's so crazy right now
01:25:06
wait a minute and I go he's just reading People magazine I can see him and she goes yeah it's a little nuts right now
01:25:13
if you can come back later and that's how I started I'm telling me that was the Genesis of that and that was
01:25:19
Swayze's show which was I didn't write it I wish you'd had told me that story that's David Spades I know you've been
01:25:26
hogging this podcast the whole time but well this one David you've had so many years to tell me I know no that's isn't that funny that that that's what I knew for sure I was there hysterical and uh
01:25:38
but Farley it just to put it to bed was love that sketch crushed in it heard about it forever Patrick Swayze was
01:25:45
great in it kneeling was funny I mean it was it Neil and Jan Hooks when you were didn't you write when it was like Adrian
01:25:50
Barney and then uh and then Barney keeps making faces at in like Barney Barney it's over it's okay and he's still trying to win Barney our decision's fine oh yeah yeah but uh but no the the um by
01:26:03
the way let me just say Not only was it did was the in the impetus or the impulse to do that piece it was because Patrick Swayze was the host regulatory
01:26:15
ago and he's a dancer right it's a perfect uh written thing for a host too yeah the idea he loved it that I was sitting there going like how can I exploit Farley's overweightness
01:26:28
and how can I get that on the air how do I put a sketch around it a humiliation start with humiliation no I think the
01:26:36
one that was worse with Chris what was that but it it never blew up like this one because Chris was game for anything was it the space wasn't better than anybody but I I don't remember the exact
01:26:47
ope but I remember I was Ross Perot Chris was in it maybe Franken wrote it but by the end I'm writing Chris he's kind of and he's and I'm going I'm gonna
01:26:58
ride you piggy boy come on now you know so that one you should be canceled I was
01:27:05
even asking Chris is this okay and he was just laughing his ass he doesn't care about anything
01:27:12
[Music] all right uh Jim before we go and I I know you got a million things to do but
01:27:17
this last thing is from me and Dana we both know that for the people that don't realize uh how much you've done on the show um Dennis Miller actually said you were
01:27:28
the second most important person in the history of SNL behind Lauren and I thought that was great until he said I
01:27:33
was a third yeah so um yeah it is true you were you were such a big part of that in Letterman but this
01:27:45
thing that lives on for you lucky for you you're in memes on Instagram all the time is Billy Madison uh you gave the
01:27:53
greatest speech and I think did you help write all of Billy Madison are you throwing jokes or do you just get that
01:27:58
only only that part only that part and I was up in um Toronto um not not very effectually but but I was asked to to you know work on on
01:28:10
Tommy Boy and it was up there with Fred Wolfe and and um um I'm pretty sure that's when this was unless yeah they shot the same summer okay and so and so uh uh Adam uh asked
01:28:26
me if if I would do this thing and it's funny that we're talking about the Genesis of things well the the thing
01:28:32
about Farley if you guys remember that's what I always used to say to Farley when he would speak at a writers
01:28:40
thanks Chris everyone's now Dumber yourself so I I channeled that when I was I was rewriting that that part and I I made
01:28:53
sure so that was whenever I hear that thing comes back and it is a popular of of all the things I've ever done in my
01:29:00
life probably that is the one that I that comes back at me the most our producer Greg holdsman says it's an important part of his childhood so what what is it so just set the scene real
01:29:12
quickly and then what your line that is now remember it was kind of long though right it wasn't just that well
01:29:18
the funniest the funniest time it ever came back at me I was at my college 25th reunion and I was doing a little presentation where I showed clips from the shows and both of you guys were
01:29:29
represented you'll be glad to know and um so it was my Harvard 25th reunion and I'm standing there and uh it was there's a sort of a like uh it
01:29:41
wasn't exactly backstage it was actually outside but it was kind of like a courtyard and I were gonna I was gonna
01:29:47
be introduced and come out and I was sort of pacing like going over what I was going to say and I look over and
01:29:54
about as beautiful girl as I've ever seen in my life and David if you'd seen this girl you would have been all over
01:30:01
that but she was this tall beautiful blonde girl I mean so David you know he's a man
01:30:08
about town yeah but but David Dana was our he was our player and remains our player but anyway so this girl comes over to me and it's like she actually sort of like sauntered sexily over to me
01:30:21
and it was like like a James Bond's movie scene or something she she grabs my ear and
01:30:28
Whispers sexiling into my ear uh the entire speech from Billy Madison and but she had it word perfect and I I didn't I didn't remember it myself this
01:30:41
is 1999 so it was like you know five or six years after the movie came out I didn't remember it myself except the parts about uh everyone it was like at no point
01:30:52
what and you're rambling incoherent did you were you even close to anything that could um that resembled a and I don't remember seeing something point I
01:31:03
award you no points and everyone in this room is now Dumber for having heard it I
01:31:09
award you no points and God have mercy on your soul yeah and and that's it that she does the whole thing perfectly and then her father who was my classmate steps out from a pole ah we got you this
01:31:21
is my daughter my daughter Claire and I it's just such a such a bizarre experience to this day
01:31:31
Adam Sandler's character gives a speech in the gym and it's horrible and then Jim critiques it and it gets the last line as may God have mercy on yourself
01:31:42
uncoordinated speech basically wow and then um uh Steve Buscemi is up in the stands with a high-powered rifle and he shoots Brad Bradley Whitford yeah the
01:31:55
guy the bad guy and uh that was no that was a lot of a lot of great people in that uh in that movie Norm was in a reaction and uh uh that's right we got that was a
01:32:08
fun uh hang that uh uh that summer yeah it was called Billy Madison and we were called Billy the third do you remember that and uh and that's it the Turner's name the movie Billy the third a
01:32:20
Midwestern uh Tommy Boy that was what it was called and then when Billy Madison was shooting we were shooting we're like
01:32:26
oh [ __ ] he's going to come out first we can't use Billy twice to SNL you know all on us I did not I didn't never
01:32:32
realize I thought when you said Billy the third I thought you're saying like it was my third priority that summer no
01:32:37
it was Bill and they were they were uh shooting and we were shooting and I was like [ __ ] so we couldn't come up with
01:32:43
talking about for a while because Billy III was it was Billy and then turned into Tommy and then I think Brian Denny
01:32:49
just called him Tommy Boy and and then I didn't even like Tommy Boy at the beginning I don't know about that one
01:32:55
but now he's kind of stuck and now I like it but that was why because Billy was taken we both wrote a movie with Billy in the same summer we shot I remember I remember I got roped into
01:33:06
that because I I had Lauren had wanted me very badly to to work on the script and I you know I I think a couple of my ideas remain but it was really Fred and
01:33:18
and um I thought actually the funniest things in the movie were were you and Fred and and um
01:33:25
uh but anyway there was a an arbitration with the writer's Guild because oh yeah I think I think uh whether or not the
01:33:32
question is whether or not to share for Fred to get part screen I said I don't deserve it and I don't need it and don't
01:33:38
worry about me but I remember that was it was the first time I was ever involved in in the craziness of that the
01:33:46
committee you know they they award huge points to the names of the characters and I go who the [ __ ] cares about a character's name is no but who had the
01:33:57
idea to call the guy you know uh Brad Hartman and I go well okay that that wasn't me
01:34:03
oh really oh that's you because with you he was Andy Barnett Jim I remember one scene you wrote in Tommy Boy that stuck with everyone it was where Farley took off his shirt and said look how fat I am
01:34:19
I don't know if it made the Final Cut but I go this is Jim's you have to do it um and none of us did you threaten to
01:34:27
quit and we all laughed at him and then I was the one that cried and said why is Farley on so much
01:34:35
oh it's because the the queue ratings just came in um uh and even everyone knows you did
01:34:42
all you could to keep that out so well Jim thank you I guess we'll we'll go but here thanks guys we love you uh everyone
01:34:50
talks Downey the one and only let's not let this be the only time we get together you know uh no Damon I got your phone number I know they tricked them into giving it to me I
01:35:02
know it's yours because of the outgoing message so oh yeah I'm not gonna say it it's funny you know but I I was not able took me a long ass time to no yesterday
01:35:13
was rocks was Rock's birthday did you call him and well I tried to because I don't have an up-to-date number reform
01:35:19
so so I I um Marcy Klein who was texting with text me like um hey um you know it's Chris Rock's birthday and it's funny because I just had dinner Sunday night with Tim Meadows and Tim told me
01:35:31
well my birthday was yesterday oh yes it's coming up so I was aware and I know Marcy Klein talks to Chris all the time
01:35:38
and so and so I Marcy had sent me a text about something else ago hey um and she
01:35:43
goes and you know it's Chris Rock's birthday and I go hey well send me send me his number I'll text him happy
01:35:49
birthday and then there's like nothing there's no response like I'll hook you up
01:35:57
meaning she doesn't want me to happen she doesn't want to give me his phone he loves you so I just I just texted her
01:36:04
back saying you know maybe after I've been at the show a few more years you know by the way Jim this is like it's
01:36:10
back then it's me and you and Dana talking like we're walking Joseph I saw Rock the other night Meadows and Marcy
01:36:16
Klein this is like we're all talking still from uh we um we didn't want to make you a nervous
01:36:24
Jim but the actual working title for this podcast is the hot seat but we uh didn't want to let you know we didn't have enough gotcha moments I'm glad you I did not know that because I would have
01:36:35
been a [ __ ] nervous wreck no Jim you were great I know that anything you say is interesting about old SNL and
01:36:41
everyone loves to hear it um but uh we'll talk soon and thank you for coming we'll talk soon we're gonna be talking
01:36:47
all right okay guys bye-bye hey what's up flies what's up please what's up people that listen we want to hear from you and your dumb questions
01:37:00
questions ask us anything anything you want you can email us at fly on the wall at cadence13.com Alex Alex May Alex wants to know what
01:37:13
your experience was like living in New York City back in the SNL days figured you were at 30 Rock all the time but
01:37:19
curious what New York stories you've got and whether you liked it or not he loves our show that's like a 45 minute answer
01:37:25
I know that is a small book it's like a hundred pager when I got out there I was
01:37:30
uh my brother Annie and Katie they they lived up in the upper west side so I moved up there and I didn't really know
01:37:36
anyone and a lot of people live in the Upper West Side Dana Carvey Dennis Miller Mike where were you I was like
01:37:43
84th and West End and so I had a dinky little dump and it was tough living up there I'm from Arizona so the living in through the winters and not my hair got brown within minutes what happened is my
01:37:58
hair was always white because I was in the sun always in Arizona and then in New York it's only Sunny for about 10
01:38:03
minutes a day because the Sun goes between the buildings and it comes straight down the winter shadowy it's
01:38:09
freezing so hair got dark didn't eat well and loved New York but the experience was really just being in the building we didn't do anything other than that well first of all I was there
01:38:20
before I did SNL I worked in Rockefeller Center in 1981 with Mickey Rooney and Nathan Lane and I got an apartment on Lexington Avenue and they told me that Robert Redford edited Ordinary People in
01:38:33
the apartment and I said yeah right six years later I'm doing a movie with Bert Lancaster and Kirk Douglas the director
01:38:40
says oh I was a editor I added ordinary people with Robert Redford where'd you edit it at and that was the apartment we
01:38:46
can cut that one here's one thing for a cow I like that that's a real answer I these are long stories but um the you'd
01:38:54
go to a movie and it's like 65 you'd come out of the movie and it's 25 I'd never experienced yeah yeah getting cabs like I didn't have a car service anytime so just
01:39:07
getting to SNL on Saturday yeah if it was snowing trying to get cabs was really difficult I would say experientially Rockefeller Center is just uh the coolest the weirdest kind of
01:39:19
almost haunting building all the history of it and uh there's nothing like being
01:39:26
in New York City doing well on Saturday Night Live that's the most intense thing
01:39:32
you could have and you know I don't know if I'm the first one to think of this but if you can make it there
01:39:38
um you can make it anywhere in where New York yeah New York New York I mean it's uh you know these old Vagabond shoes you
01:39:47
know I had should I start spreading that news you know I think that's a good idea
01:39:54
um New York New York's let me tell you thank you Alex that was a great question thank you
01:39:59
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