00:00:05
on this episode of women behind bars
00:00:08
one woman was convicted of ruthlessly
00:00:10
murdering her husband
00:00:12
there's some rope cord and they put it
00:00:14
around
00:00:15
mr sponaugle's neck and they each take
00:00:18
one end of the rope
00:00:19
to begin to pull didn't have anything to
00:00:22
do with it
00:00:24
i was a bystander then carmen ortiz
00:00:27
tells her story
00:00:29
she was an accomplice in a senseless
00:00:30
killing for drugs
00:00:32
he was like oh my god i think i you know
00:00:36
killed somebody the next thing i know
00:00:38
he's lungering at me
00:00:39
trying to cut my my face or stab me in
00:00:42
the neck with a knife
00:00:43
two women two brutal crimes
00:00:46
these are the stories of delfa spunago
00:00:49
and carmen ortiz
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[Music]
00:01:07
[Music]
00:01:13
on august 20th 1993 police discovered
00:01:16
the badly decomposed body of 40 year old
00:01:19
dennis bounagle
00:01:20
in a creek bed 50 feet from county line
00:01:23
[Music]
00:01:24
road
00:01:26
it looked like the body was moving and
00:01:27
boiling
00:01:29
it was so covered with insect and
00:01:31
maggots to kill somebody is bad enough
00:01:33
but to torture that poor man for for
00:01:36
four hours or so the way he was tortured
00:01:39
was was unforgivable
00:01:42
[Music]
00:01:45
investigators arrested two people
00:01:47
including 44 year old delfa spoonagle
00:01:50
dennis's wife and accused her of
00:01:52
orchestrating his murder
00:01:54
there's no way she could have helped
00:01:55
assist in killing anybody she just
00:01:58
well she she couldn't have
00:02:01
was delphas bunagal forced to
00:02:03
participate in the gruesome murder of
00:02:04
her husband
00:02:06
or did she scheme to have him killed for
00:02:08
money
00:02:09
[Music]
00:02:13
delfa bond grew up in southeastern
00:02:15
oklahoma as the youngest of four sisters
00:02:18
had a very supportive family and a
00:02:21
a normal normal childhood
00:02:24
[Music]
00:02:25
all four girls would be in the kitchen
00:02:26
and they would be laughing and
00:02:29
and you know it's just the happiest
00:02:32
atmosphere
00:02:33
that you could you want to be around i
00:02:35
was
00:02:36
the baby family and i was
00:02:40
spoiled by my sisters and my parents
00:02:43
in fact delfa became the apple of her
00:02:45
father's eye
00:02:46
he cared so much for her because
00:02:51
he was proud of her at school she was
00:02:53
smart
00:02:55
and got everything and well
00:02:58
she was just always a loving caring kid
00:03:01
by the time delpha reached high school
00:03:03
she had blossomed into an attractive and
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popular young lady
00:03:07
she was a beautician the boys in her
00:03:10
class
00:03:11
they all just loved her
00:03:14
one of those boyfriends became delpha's
00:03:16
first love
00:03:17
i was a junior in high school his name
00:03:19
was gary he was very good looking
00:03:22
charming everything that
00:03:25
you want in the high school sweetheart
00:03:28
after graduating as valedictorian of her
00:03:31
high school class
00:03:32
delpha enrolled in cosmetology school
00:03:34
and married gary
00:03:35
i was rather spoiled so i i was used to
00:03:38
having things my way
00:03:40
of course when you get married things
00:03:41
change but i didn't change with it
00:03:45
at age 21 after just three years of
00:03:47
marriage
00:03:48
delpha filed for divorce i couldn't have
00:03:51
children
00:03:52
and that just pretty well set this home
00:03:54
for the marriage
00:03:56
i asked him to move out delfa married
00:03:58
two more times and eventually had two
00:04:00
children
00:04:01
a boy and a girl after eight years of
00:04:04
marriage to her third husband
00:04:05
she divorced again i loaded up my car
00:04:09
baby bed and all and took off
00:04:13
went and moved to another town
00:04:15
everywhere i moved my dad would build me
00:04:17
a beauty shop
00:04:18
so i wouldn't have to get out of the
00:04:19
house i think she was looking for
00:04:22
someone like her dad you know a
00:04:24
father-like figure and
00:04:26
you know someone that loved kids and and
00:04:29
worked hard and was concerned about
00:04:31
family and none of those
00:04:33
fit the spot so my life went on just
00:04:35
like it was
00:04:37
had more responsibility with two kids
00:04:40
but
00:04:42
it was worth it she hated the fact that
00:04:46
she was married as many times as she was
00:04:48
she felt embarrassed
00:04:49
she was still hunting for the right
00:04:52
person
00:04:53
that would compliment her life then
00:04:56
when delpha was 36 years old she met 32
00:04:59
year old dennis bonago
00:05:02
he was good-looking he was quiet
00:05:07
he was hard-working
00:05:12
he was everything that i was looking for
00:05:13
at the time in 1986
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the couple married he just told me that
00:05:18
she said i'm going to make this work no
00:05:19
matter what i don't
00:05:20
ever want to think that i'm just jumped
00:05:23
from marriage to marriage to marriage
00:05:24
and never satisfied
00:05:26
he was just the perfect husband he was
00:05:29
real good to my family
00:05:31
and he was just a good man i thought
00:05:36
the couple started a silk screening
00:05:37
business and bought a home in edmond
00:05:40
but when her father died in 1988 delpha
00:05:43
says dennis started drinking heavily
00:05:45
and physically abusing her he had gotten
00:05:48
drunk
00:05:48
several times before that but had never
00:05:51
done anything
00:05:52
i think he was afraid of my father so he
00:05:54
never did never delay hand on me until
00:05:56
after my dad had died
00:05:59
delpha recalls the first time dennis
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allegedly hit her
00:06:03
he came home dry one evening and he
00:06:07
proceeded to start hitting on me i was
00:06:09
in shock when
00:06:11
it happened to add insult to injury
00:06:15
delpha says dennis was also having an
00:06:17
affair with a barmaid
00:06:20
i went to the bar one time with her to
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see if she was really in there and and
00:06:27
where she was and with this girl
00:06:29
and she said let's just leave him alone
00:06:31
so there's nothing to do about it
00:06:33
but according to the police rather than
00:06:35
walk away from another failing marriage
00:06:37
delpha hatched a deadly plan to get rid
00:06:39
of her fourth husband
00:06:40
with a man named charles holy cross mr
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holocaust was a friend of both
00:06:44
spinals and told him that basically made
00:06:46
the comment in
00:06:47
to mr spanon if you ever heard delphi
00:06:50
i'll hurt you back
00:06:51
it was a comment just made off the cuff
00:06:53
according to mr holy cross
00:06:55
delphi then contacted holy cross later
00:06:57
and said are you serious about that
00:06:59
would you you know would you kill the
00:07:01
dentist for a thousand dollars
00:07:03
she had told mr holy cross at that point
00:07:06
that she had already paid another man
00:07:07
five hundred dollars to kill
00:07:09
sponaugle but that man had just ran off
00:07:10
with her money
00:07:12
mr holy cross told her no he doesn't
00:07:14
want any part of this
00:07:15
she contacted him a second time and
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offered him a cut of the life insurance
00:07:19
money
00:07:20
if he would kill mr spinach
00:07:23
no i'm not interested i'm not going to
00:07:25
do that leave me alone
00:07:28
delfa denies approaching charles holy
00:07:30
cross
00:07:32
i had made up my mind that i was going
00:07:34
to make this one work
00:07:35
regardless of what but i endured
00:07:39
because i was into things we had a real
00:07:42
nice house we had a swimming pool and
00:07:44
a motor home so i thought well maybe it
00:07:46
was time that i
00:07:48
took a little bit of the bad stuff in
00:07:50
with the good
00:07:51
but the cracks in the marriage were
00:07:53
becoming increasingly visible to
00:07:55
outsiders
00:07:56
and so was the alleged physical abuse i
00:07:58
just
00:07:59
begged her to leave him but she was
00:08:01
scared of him
00:08:03
she said he threatened her for if she
00:08:05
ever did it he'd look her up anywhere
00:08:07
she went
00:08:11
when women behind bars continues she
00:08:14
tells him dennis has to die we have to
00:08:16
do this
00:08:16
he got out of hand and he ended up
00:08:19
killing me
00:08:24
by august of 1993 delphas bounagle's
00:08:28
fourth marriage
00:08:28
to dennis bounagle was rapidly
00:08:31
deteriorating
00:08:32
delpha was in a marriage she didn't want
00:08:35
to be in
00:08:36
the business the family business was
00:08:38
struggling she wanted to be rid
00:08:40
of dennis and start anew
00:08:43
there was a 150 000 insurance
00:08:48
life insurance on dentist and
00:08:52
there's also evidence to indicate that
00:08:54
there was a stormy marriage
00:08:55
she described dennis as being an abuser
00:08:58
but
00:08:59
my opinion was she was doing it to
00:09:01
collect life insurance
00:09:03
she knew exactly what she wanted to do
00:09:05
she knew the people
00:09:07
that she could use to get this done she
00:09:10
had tried
00:09:11
on two times prior to have dennis killed
00:09:14
police say a determined alpha made plans
00:09:17
for a third attempt to get rid of her
00:09:18
husband
00:09:20
this time she approached edwin woodward
00:09:23
an acquaintance who called himself
00:09:25
david my husband met him at a bar
00:09:29
and he didn't have a place to stay so he
00:09:32
brought him home and let him stay in our
00:09:34
motor home
00:09:35
for a couple of days until he found a
00:09:36
place to live mr woodward
00:09:39
worked for the spinaugles in their
00:09:40
t-shirt business
00:09:42
he was
00:09:45
in a relationship with delpha sponaugle
00:09:48
they were quite close there's some
00:09:51
indication that there's some
00:09:52
romantic time between the two defendants
00:09:55
well we're best friends
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[Music]
00:09:59
with stays in this room we have happy
00:10:01
moments
00:10:02
[Music]
00:10:07
i don't think she was in love with
00:10:09
woodward but she knew she had a
00:10:11
flunky that would do whatever she told
00:10:13
him to do
00:10:16
delfa denies any romantic involvement
00:10:18
with edwin woodward
00:10:19
also known as david he was
00:10:22
the town drunk
00:10:27
woodward at this point in his life
00:10:31
was an alcoholic
00:10:32
[Music]
00:10:34
and he basically did whatever
00:10:37
delfa told him to do she tells him to go
00:10:42
wait in the motorhome she later then
00:10:44
comes back out ask him to come in the
00:10:46
house
00:10:47
tells him you know dennis has to die we
00:10:49
have to do this you know i want you to
00:10:50
kill him we'll be together
00:10:52
you know plays on his emotions
00:10:56
there was a door that was left unlocked
00:10:58
or there was a
00:10:59
a method by which mr woodward would be
00:11:01
able to enter the house
00:11:03
spinaugh is asleep in the master bedroom
00:11:06
woodward then strikes
00:11:07
sponaugle in the head with a baseball
00:11:09
bat practically severing the ear offside
00:11:12
his head
00:11:13
mr spanego lost consciousness for a
00:11:15
brief period of time
00:11:17
but he didn't die mr sponaugle
00:11:20
gets up in a fight then ensues between
00:11:23
woodward and smanova mr spanago's
00:11:25
fighting for his life at this point and
00:11:27
he is
00:11:28
able to gain control of woodward who
00:11:31
drops the bat
00:11:32
delpha then comes around picks the bat
00:11:34
up herself and hits mr spinagle on the
00:11:36
back of the head
00:11:38
woodward then obtains a knife and begins
00:11:40
to stab mr spinach
00:11:43
the medical examiner's report revealed
00:11:45
multiple stab wounds
00:11:46
none of them lethal it is estimated the
00:11:49
attack went on for four
00:11:50
torturous hours he knows what he's doing
00:11:54
but his heart's not really in to
00:11:57
stabbing mr sponaugle
00:11:58
but mr spanogle still won't die
00:12:04
at this point mr sponaugle makes it out
00:12:06
of bed and is crawling on his hands
00:12:08
knees out in the hallway
00:12:15
according to woodward delfa finally
00:12:18
ordered him to retrieve a piece of rope
00:12:20
from the garage
00:12:21
he brings some rope in they put it
00:12:23
around mr sponaugle's neck
00:12:26
and they each take one end of the rope
00:12:28
and begin to pull
00:12:31
at that point mr spinal dies
00:12:35
delpha tells a very different story one
00:12:38
that begins with her husband coming home
00:12:40
at 2 a.m on a night when the children
00:12:42
were away with family
00:12:44
delpha says dennis was drunk and forgot
00:12:46
to lock the front door
00:12:47
soon after he passed out after we went
00:12:51
to bed
00:12:52
i heard this loud noise and david
00:12:56
hit dennis in the head with the bad and
00:13:01
he had told me prior to this that
00:13:04
he was going to teach dennis a lesson
00:13:08
for abusing me he got out of hand
00:13:11
and he ended up killing me but
00:13:13
authorities believe
00:13:14
delfa was in charge every step of the
00:13:16
way even
00:13:17
organizing the disposal of her husband's
00:13:19
body they wrap
00:13:21
dennis's body in the blanket they drive
00:13:24
west till they get to this location to
00:13:26
this low water bridge and delphi
00:13:28
basically tells him stop here
00:13:30
she tells him then to dump the body
00:13:34
detectives also theorized that delpha
00:13:36
wanted the body to be found
00:13:38
without it there would be no insurance
00:13:40
money
00:13:41
delpha had planned ahead of time she
00:13:43
knew that she was going to have to
00:13:44
report him missing
00:13:45
and that's when delphi directed him to
00:13:47
go back down and reposition the body
00:13:49
because it couldn't be seen
00:13:50
very easily from the edge of the bridge
00:13:53
after they dump the body
00:13:54
they'd drive back they're going to go
00:13:56
back to the house
00:13:58
he later tells us delphi gave him a 20
00:14:00
bill to go in buy a 12 pack of beer and
00:14:02
let him keep the change
00:14:03
that was all he ever gained out of the
00:14:05
homicide itself
00:14:08
delphi described herself as powerless
00:14:11
and terrified that she might be next
00:14:14
he drives back tells me that if i tell
00:14:16
anyone that he'll kill me and my kids
00:14:20
so i didn't tell anyone police point to
00:14:24
evidence showing that delpha went to
00:14:25
great lengths to cover up the crime
00:14:28
in the days that followed the
00:14:30
blood-spattered hallway and bedroom were
00:14:32
repainted
00:14:33
and the carpets professionally cleaned
00:14:36
delpha
00:14:36
also filed a false missing persons
00:14:39
report
00:14:40
i want them to know that he's missing
00:14:43
he's out there
00:14:44
i couldn't say hey he's under a bridge
00:14:47
dead
00:14:48
because i feared for my kid's life
00:14:53
[Music]
00:14:54
friday afternoon at four o'clock we got
00:14:57
a call from the our kansas city police
00:14:59
department or kansas city kansas
00:15:01
they had received information from an
00:15:03
informant
00:15:05
that edwin woodward had been up there
00:15:08
and he made statements how he'd been
00:15:10
involved in a killing
00:15:11
in edmond so we begin searching missing
00:15:13
persons
00:15:14
sunday afternoon when the news reports
00:15:16
that the county sheriff's office
00:15:18
has located a body it's unidentified and
00:15:21
it's rest of our city
00:15:23
the amount of insect activity on this
00:15:25
body was horrendous
00:15:27
he'd been here for a while in august
00:15:30
and he was he was being totally consumed
00:15:33
it wouldn't have been too much longer
00:15:34
with all we would have had would been a
00:15:35
skeletal remains
00:15:38
woodward had to work his way down pull
00:15:39
him back and the medallion fell
00:15:42
off and that's where the good lord
00:15:43
intervened and made sure there was a
00:15:45
clue left for us
00:15:49
woodward was brought in for questioning
00:16:02
[Music]
00:16:06
if you're gonna be honest
00:16:09
at that point woodward broke down and
00:16:12
then
00:16:12
began to tell us how at her suggestion
00:16:16
planning carried out the homicide of mr
00:16:20
spanaugle
00:16:26
[Music]
00:16:28
and at that point everything just went
00:16:34
totally
00:16:38
authorities wasted no time in contacting
00:16:40
delpha spoonagle
00:16:42
they called to ask me if i would come to
00:16:44
the police station
00:16:45
talk to him and they said they'd found
00:16:48
dennis's body
00:16:50
so i was relieved so i go in and
00:16:54
they start telling me that dave they had
00:16:56
arrested him and he confessed to
00:16:58
killing dennis and he told him that i
00:17:02
had asked him to do it
00:17:04
i was shocked at his interpretation
00:17:08
i didn't have anything to do with it
00:17:11
i was a bystander
00:17:14
and a victim as far as it all goes
00:17:19
both delpha and woodward were arrested
00:17:21
on charges of first-degree murder
00:17:23
and conspiracy to commit murder delpha
00:17:26
was also charged with solicitation to
00:17:28
commit murder
00:17:36
this was such a horrendous crime
00:17:41
right they beat him with baseball bats
00:17:44
they stabbed him they
00:17:45
strangled him and then took him out and
00:17:48
dumped his body out
00:17:50
and borrowed ditch where it would not be
00:17:51
found for several days
00:17:53
i couldn't i think any punishment that
00:17:54
would be adequate in a case like this
00:17:57
other than the death penalty
00:17:59
mr macy was known as a law order a
00:18:01
district attorney
00:18:02
no frills no thrills he's in his opinion
00:18:06
from the public interest he sought
00:18:07
justice in this case he felt justice was
00:18:10
putting both individuals on death row i
00:18:13
also wanted to send a message out to
00:18:14
other women in oklahoma county
00:18:16
but if you want to get rid of your
00:18:17
husband the proper place is in the
00:18:19
divorce courts
00:18:22
when women behind bars continues it was
00:18:25
a big shock i came back with the death
00:18:29
penalty
00:18:30
and later in the program a robbery turns
00:18:33
to murder
00:18:34
he was like oh my god i think i killed
00:18:37
somebody yeah he was shaking and i'm
00:18:39
like oh my god
00:18:40
and we was both scared so we started
00:18:42
doing more drugs
00:18:54
in february of 1995 delfa spoonagle was
00:18:58
on trial for the murder of her husband
00:19:00
dennis bounagle
00:19:01
based on the evidence presented and
00:19:03
prosecutors argument the delpha's motive
00:19:05
was to collect the proceeds from
00:19:06
dennis's life insurance
00:19:08
the jury convicted delfa and her
00:19:10
co-defendant edward woodward
00:19:12
of first-degree murder the case was well
00:19:15
put together
00:19:16
well investigated all the questions that
00:19:18
had been asked
00:19:19
been answered the evidence was just
00:19:21
overwhelming
00:19:22
that these two people had committed this
00:19:24
horrible murder and my response was
00:19:26
to go ahead and try to get the most
00:19:28
severe punishment i can
00:19:30
woodward was given life without parole
00:19:33
delva received the death penalty
00:19:35
and became the seventh woman ever on
00:19:38
oklahoma's death row
00:19:41
they never gave her a chance to tell her
00:19:44
story
00:19:44
she never got on up on the stand the
00:19:47
lawyer would
00:19:48
he wouldn't even hardly ask questions
00:19:51
she had a large amount of family they
00:19:54
thought that she would go home they
00:19:55
actually had brought a change of clothes
00:19:56
for her
00:19:58
well i just thought i wasn't going to
00:19:59
live i just thought i was just going to
00:20:03
pass out there right then when i heard
00:20:05
it so it was
00:20:08
a big shock and i came back with the
00:20:11
death penalty
00:20:12
i never dreamed i could end up in
00:20:14
something like that
00:20:15
even if dennis was not a good husband he
00:20:18
didn't deserve to be beaten stabbed
00:20:20
and choked to death and tossed off a
00:20:21
bridge
00:20:25
on april 10th 1995 delfa was transferred
00:20:29
to the maximum security prison
00:20:30
mabel bassett correctional center in
00:20:33
mcleod oklahoma
00:20:34
where she began serving her sentence on
00:20:36
death row
00:20:38
death draw was the most frightening
00:20:39
thing i'd ever been through
00:20:42
when i got there two women had been
00:20:45
there
00:20:46
nine years one had been there six
00:20:50
one had been there fourteen so
00:20:53
i just knew that all i had looked
00:20:55
forward to was death there was nothing
00:20:57
to do
00:20:58
except sit and think about
00:21:01
everything we reached out to her family
00:21:04
even more her kids
00:21:05
we stick together even through the rough
00:21:08
stuff
00:21:08
we'll stand by and continue to love her
00:21:10
more not less of what happened
00:21:12
and i had turned against god because i
00:21:15
thought how did he let this happen to me
00:21:16
you know
00:21:17
and i realized he was all that could
00:21:19
help me
00:21:20
and i turned my life over to him
00:21:25
two years after the original verdict the
00:21:27
state court of criminal appeals
00:21:29
overturned delpha's conviction
00:21:31
the court gave delpha the opportunity to
00:21:33
again stand trial
00:21:35
i wanted to go back to trial so that my
00:21:37
side of the story could come
00:21:38
out because i never was able to take the
00:21:41
stand
00:21:42
before it had been five years since i
00:21:44
had touched my kids and
00:21:47
there was hope you know then
00:21:50
i've been able to hug and love them
00:21:51
again
00:21:55
but in october 1998 delphi chose not to
00:21:58
stand trial
00:21:59
my attorney advised me not to she said
00:22:02
you've got the same d.a and the same
00:22:07
judge there were the chances of getting
00:22:09
the death penalty again
00:22:11
instead she pled guilty to first-degree
00:22:13
murder in exchange for a life sentence
00:22:15
without parole
00:22:17
so she talked me into taking a plea
00:22:18
bargain
00:22:20
and i
00:22:24
i didn't realize how long life that was
00:22:28
delphi got life without parole and she
00:22:30
would be in prison
00:22:31
the rest of her life but i still wanted
00:22:34
her held accountable
00:22:37
seriously accountable for the crime she
00:22:40
committed
00:22:40
i still think death was the appropriate
00:22:42
punishment however she's going to be
00:22:45
she's got life without parole so she
00:22:47
should never be paroled
00:22:49
and she's locked up with the meanest
00:22:51
women in the world
00:22:53
after 14 years behind bars delpha says
00:22:56
she's used to the routine
00:22:58
start my day get dressed in the morning
00:23:03
clean my room
00:23:06
go out and help clean the pod spend the
00:23:08
afternoon either reading or listening to
00:23:10
my radio
00:23:11
in the evenings i watch tv
00:23:14
weekly visits at the prison with her
00:23:16
extended family and her children
00:23:18
provide a solid support system we're
00:23:20
closer than we ever have been
00:23:23
i have a three-year-old granddaughter
00:23:26
she's a light of my life
00:23:28
still delpha's incarceration has taken
00:23:31
its toll on her family
00:23:33
it's hard to know that she's not with
00:23:36
her kids
00:23:38
she's not able to be in her
00:23:41
granddaughter's life
00:23:42
she's not here to help her mother i hope
00:23:45
and pray
00:23:46
someday that she will get out of there
00:23:49
she don't deserve
00:23:50
to even be in there and everybody
00:23:52
practically knows that
00:23:53
i regret not not reporting it
00:23:57
i should have done that the day it
00:23:58
happened
00:24:00
that's my biggest regret
00:24:03
delfa still proclaims her innocence and
00:24:06
scoffs at the notion that she killed her
00:24:07
husband for insurance money
00:24:09
i thought it's ridiculous cause a
00:24:10
hundred thousand dollars in much money
00:24:13
not for the debts that we had i think
00:24:15
she made a cold-blooded decision to burn
00:24:18
her husband to get the insurance she
00:24:20
gambled she lost
00:24:21
i think she ought to be in the river
00:24:23
today the rest of her life in the
00:24:24
penitentiary
00:24:25
the one thing i'd like to say is that
00:24:27
you never can tell when you'll be the
00:24:29
one behind the bars
00:24:31
so live your life as if it's the last
00:24:33
day
00:24:34
live it to the fullest
00:24:37
when women behind bars continues i
00:24:40
didn't think about the family anything
00:24:41
about
00:24:42
my god or anything but nobody you know
00:24:45
just
00:24:45
i want to get high for more information
00:24:48
about women behind bars
00:24:50
go to www.wetv.com
00:25:03
on march 23 1998 a polish immigrant
00:25:07
anthony rafalo was robbed and stabbed to
00:25:09
death on a street corner at 2 30 a.m
00:25:12
somewhat close to the scene they found a
00:25:14
large 14 inch knife
00:25:17
in the days that followed a rash of
00:25:19
similar armed robberies terrorized the
00:25:21
neighborhood
00:25:22
when police finally arrested eswaldo
00:25:24
gonzalez for the crimes
00:25:25
they learned he had an accomplice carmen
00:25:28
ortiz
00:25:29
a 26 year old mother and heroin addict
00:25:32
who denied taking part in the killings
00:25:35
she knew that he had a knife she knew
00:25:37
that he was going to do an armed robbery
00:25:39
and she agreed to act as a lookout she's
00:25:42
just as guilty of the murder as volvo
00:25:45
was carmen a desperate junkie who simply
00:25:47
witnessed the crime
00:25:49
or did she knowingly help commit a
00:25:51
senseless murder
00:25:56
[Music]
00:26:01
yeah i was too happy growing up i was
00:26:05
um just
00:26:09
wow you know once i got to
00:26:12
age 12 i was just
00:26:16
running wild she was hanging out with
00:26:19
her boyfriend and
00:26:21
you know just doing the wrong things at
00:26:23
that age
00:26:25
carmen ortiz's family lived on the north
00:26:27
side of chicago in a diverse area known
00:26:29
as logan square
00:26:31
the neighborhood had a very unique mix
00:26:33
because we had
00:26:34
gang activity as well as we had family
00:26:37
living here
00:26:38
polish immigrants hispanics all within
00:26:40
the same
00:26:41
area we grew up very poor
00:26:45
but we were close the oldest of six
00:26:47
children carmen always had a special
00:26:49
bond with her younger sister evelyn it's
00:26:52
like
00:26:53
me and her best friends you know she
00:26:56
would tell me everything i would tell
00:26:57
her everything we would never judge each
00:26:59
other
00:26:59
i kind of wanted to be like her at one
00:27:01
point because i thought she was so cool
00:27:03
outgoing very spontaneous she's
00:27:07
she was the leader of the pack in high
00:27:09
school carmen learned she was pregnant
00:27:11
and had to face grown-up realities at
00:27:14
age 15 when i got pregnant it was hard
00:27:17
for me
00:27:20
i was i was a little girl she dropped
00:27:22
out of school to raise her daughter
00:27:24
jasmine with long-time boyfriend
00:27:26
carlos my sister was so
00:27:29
loving to her daughter well i remember
00:27:33
since i was little
00:27:35
she was a very very good mom we did
00:27:38
everything together we talked and
00:27:40
she was affectionate very affectionate
00:27:42
with me
00:27:44
but carmen admits she juggled the
00:27:45
demands of motherhood with a partying
00:27:47
lifestyle
00:27:48
in which she acquired new bad habits
00:27:51
i started using drugs and
00:27:55
i just didn't know how to stop i
00:27:58
smoke weed and snoring pain at that age
00:28:03
when her drug use graduated to heroin
00:28:05
carmen's life began a rapid downward
00:28:07
spiral
00:28:08
i really got hooked to heroin
00:28:11
when i was 24 and that's when my life
00:28:15
changed
00:28:17
[Music]
00:28:19
she became addicted as hard as anybody
00:28:22
i've ever seen
00:28:23
i was trying to get high to forget the
00:28:25
problems and
00:28:27
i was like happy and then once the word
00:28:30
off i'd be
00:28:31
sad again and you know the heroin
00:28:35
addiction put a strain on carmen's
00:28:36
relationship with jasmine's father
00:28:38
they argued a lot my father he wanted
00:28:41
her
00:28:42
so you know to stop using drugs
00:28:46
you couldn't take it anymore so he just
00:28:48
left
00:28:50
other friends and family became alarmed
00:28:52
at the drastic change in carmen
00:28:54
you know i was scared i was scared you
00:28:56
know because i didn't understand it i
00:28:57
was like you know
00:28:58
she's a whole different person so you
00:29:01
looked at her you could not even
00:29:02
recognize her
00:29:03
and she was real thin her face was
00:29:05
sunken in
00:29:06
and she had broken out she was itching
00:29:08
everywhere
00:29:09
wasn't talking straight it wasn't her
00:29:13
carmen states that her drug habit became
00:29:15
all-consuming
00:29:16
and she pulled away from everyone we
00:29:18
just kind of judged
00:29:20
carmen at the time and you know we
00:29:22
accused her
00:29:23
you're not taking care of your daughter
00:29:24
what the heck is going on in your
00:29:25
apartment you know what
00:29:27
you know why don't you clean this place
00:29:29
i didn't
00:29:30
think about the family anything about my
00:29:32
daughter i didn't think
00:29:33
about nobody you know just i want to get
00:29:35
high i want to do this
00:29:38
i was angry at her because
00:29:42
[Music]
00:29:44
i knew that wasn't her
00:29:46
[Music]
00:29:48
she was a different person and i just
00:29:51
felt it
00:29:56
carmen met oswaldo gonzalez at a party
00:29:58
in january of 1998.
00:30:00
he was a former gang member and also
00:30:03
addicted to drugs
00:30:04
just you know hanging out
00:30:08
and stuff getting high morning moon at
00:30:10
night
00:30:12
yeah i knew right away that he was
00:30:17
he was going to bring my mom to a lot of
00:30:19
trouble
00:30:20
espalda was a heroin addict he had no
00:30:23
compunction about using force to get
00:30:24
what he wanted to feed his heroin
00:30:25
addiction
00:30:27
carmen's daughter says her mother
00:30:28
routinely disappeared for hours with
00:30:30
oswaldo
00:30:31
i used to be scared for her i used to
00:30:34
think that
00:30:35
that she would be dead at night
00:30:40
jasmine's father finally took full
00:30:42
custody of the 10 year old and jasmine
00:30:44
moved in with him
00:30:46
carmen regrets that not even losing her
00:30:48
daughter could break the stranglehold
00:30:49
drugs had on her
00:30:50
i was just i don't know i was
00:30:55
just lost i didn't i wasn't thinking
00:30:58
right you know my mind was just gone
00:31:02
carmen's sister evelyn didn't know how
00:31:04
far gone her sister was
00:31:05
until she came face to face with her in
00:31:07
front of a local restaurant
00:31:09
i'm sitting in my car and i see someone
00:31:12
trying to approach me but it's kind of
00:31:13
common in logan square
00:31:15
where people would do stuff like that
00:31:17
they want to come up to you and ask you
00:31:18
for
00:31:19
spare change i was walking and i was
00:31:22
trying to get some drugs you know this
00:31:24
person is coming up to me with a hoodie
00:31:27
and i don't see this person's face but
00:31:30
when it gets close to my
00:31:31
car i noticed that it was my sister
00:31:34
carmen
00:31:34
asking me for change i see my sister and
00:31:38
just like my heart dropped i was like
00:31:40
man
00:31:40
i said carmen what are you doing and it
00:31:44
you know i started crying there and she
00:31:46
cried and i got out of my car
00:31:48
and i just wanted to hug her and and
00:31:54
so i knew
00:31:57
i know it was time
00:32:01
for me to stop judging her like she
00:32:04
wanted to
00:32:05
help me and hug me and
00:32:09
i didn't want her to see me like that so
00:32:11
i was just like trying to brush her off
00:32:13
you know she says i'm sorry emily i love
00:32:16
you i'm sorry
00:32:17
and she walked away so fast
00:32:21
[Music]
00:32:26
over the next few days evelyn says she
00:32:28
drove up and down logan square
00:32:30
until she found her sister again so i
00:32:33
took carmen in
00:32:34
to my apartment i gave her clean clothes
00:32:36
and a clean towel
00:32:38
and i cooked her favorite dish i made
00:32:41
her bed
00:32:42
i did go to her house but then i left
00:32:46
because i just wanted to go and get him
00:32:52
carmen returned to the streets where she
00:32:54
and oswaldo needed quick cash to buy
00:32:56
drugs
00:32:58
we started um doing robberies
00:33:02
i mean the usual robbery back then 70
00:33:05
bucks 50 bucks 100 bucks i mean
00:33:07
relatively low amount of money but it
00:33:10
was enough to buy six bags of heroin
00:33:12
that carmen claims was her daily habit
00:33:16
a lot of their robberies happen in a two
00:33:19
to four block radius
00:33:21
from their apartment which is directly
00:33:23
behind us over on
00:33:24
sawyer police files state that oswaldo
00:33:27
armed himself with a butcher knife
00:33:29
hidden up his sleeve
00:33:31
he also preferred to target polish or
00:33:33
hispanic immigrants
00:33:34
along milwaukee avenue in the chicago
00:33:36
neighborhood
00:33:37
they won't complain to the police
00:33:39
they're robbed because they're afraid of
00:33:40
getting deported
00:33:42
carmen recalls that at 10 p.m on march
00:33:44
22nd
00:33:45
oswaldo accosted a man outside of a
00:33:47
blockbuster
00:33:48
while she stood nearby but the victim
00:33:50
ran away
00:33:52
the pair grew more desperate as they
00:33:53
walked up and down the strip
00:33:55
around 2 30 in the morning carmen says
00:33:58
oswaldo pointed out their next victim
00:34:01
he seen this man standing at the corner
00:34:04
store
00:34:05
i'm so i think he was drunk a little bit
00:34:08
what she was supposed to do was stand on
00:34:09
the corner look out for the police if
00:34:11
she spots the police or someone coming
00:34:12
to yell to
00:34:14
mosfaldo i was waiting across the street
00:34:17
he told me to wait and i looked over
00:34:20
there
00:34:20
and um he was fighting with ozzie and
00:34:24
i'm looking around the streets you know
00:34:28
for cops so you know people
00:34:32
i was wallow stab this guy in the
00:34:34
stomach and he dies there right in the
00:34:35
sidewalk
00:34:37
the guy fell on the floor so i was like
00:34:41
oh my god well what happened what you do
00:34:43
to him
00:34:44
he's like nothing nothing come on let's
00:34:46
go let's go
00:34:48
when women behind bars continues
00:34:50
carmen's partner assaults a judge
00:34:53
the next thing i know he's flunk he's
00:34:55
lungering at me
00:34:56
trying to cut my my face or stab me in
00:34:58
the neck with a knife the knife was a
00:35:00
long knife
00:35:05
[Music]
00:35:09
in march of 1998 two heroin junkies
00:35:12
carmen ortiz and oswaldo gonzalez
00:35:14
went on an armed robbery spree to pay
00:35:17
for their drugs on the streets of
00:35:18
chicago
00:35:19
one of the robberies went terribly wrong
00:35:22
and ended in the murder of a family man
00:35:24
who had recently immigrated to america
00:35:26
from poland
00:35:30
as wallow stab this guy in the stomach i
00:35:31
mean that's painful injury
00:35:33
and he dies there right in the sidewalk
00:35:36
it stayed in my mind that he was
00:35:38
on the floor this image right there just
00:35:40
stayed in my mind
00:35:43
police records show that oswaldo
00:35:45
discarded the butcher knife
00:35:46
and both he and carmen fled back to her
00:35:48
apartment
00:35:49
he was like oh my god i think i killed
00:35:52
somebody
00:35:53
yeah he was shaking and i'm like oh my
00:35:54
god and we was both scared so we started
00:35:57
doing more drugs
00:36:03
detectives arrived on the scene they
00:36:04
cordoned off the area and in a
00:36:05
wastebasket
00:36:06
somewhat close to the scene they found a
00:36:08
large 14 inch knife
00:36:10
i'm guessing a blade i'd be a good nine
00:36:12
inch blade
00:36:14
police had the murder weapon but no
00:36:15
other leads to who committed the killing
00:36:18
carmen says she wanted nothing more to
00:36:20
do with oswaldo after the incident
00:36:23
i was so scared i thought he was going
00:36:25
to kill me
00:36:26
you know i said something i was just so
00:36:30
scared despite her fear carmen admits
00:36:33
she met up with oswaldo the next day
00:36:35
to feed her daily drug habit they held
00:36:38
up a small grocery store on belmont
00:36:40
avenue this was a store in her
00:36:42
neighborhood
00:36:43
close to where she lived they had done
00:36:44
robberies together before they knew
00:36:47
what part they're going to play he held
00:36:49
a knife on
00:36:50
on the store owner or manager and said
00:36:53
open the cash register
00:36:54
they got away with some money but the uh
00:36:57
the store person knew her
00:36:58
because she had shopped there carmen
00:37:01
says that within hours the two are out
00:37:03
of drugs again
00:37:04
and prowling the streets for someone
00:37:06
else to rob
00:37:07
this lady was coming out from work
00:37:11
and um i was with i was while
00:37:14
he told me to wait here i'm gonna you
00:37:17
know
00:37:19
rob this lady i took the purse
00:37:22
then we both went in
00:37:26
all the robberies appeared to be related
00:37:28
due to the fact that
00:37:29
they were all occurring around the same
00:37:31
time the same area the same methods
00:37:34
ortiz claims she finally stopped taking
00:37:36
part in the crimes
00:37:37
while oswaldo continued his
00:37:39
knife-wielding attacks over the next
00:37:41
several days
00:37:44
on the morning of april 10 1998 luck ran
00:37:47
out for carmen's partner when he
00:37:49
attacked a circuit court judge on his
00:37:50
way to work
00:37:52
i was on my way to the logan square
00:37:54
station
00:37:55
that's where i catch my subway in the
00:37:58
mornings
00:37:58
approximately at this location is where
00:38:01
ozzie had
00:38:02
accosted him and robbed them and stabbed
00:38:04
the judge
00:38:05
the next thing i know he's flunk he's
00:38:07
lungering at me
00:38:08
trying to cut my my face or stab me in
00:38:11
the neck with a knife the knife was a
00:38:12
long knife
00:38:13
it's a carving knife he punctured my
00:38:16
lung he stabbed me right through the
00:38:17
back right to allow
00:38:19
a neighbor in her car witnessed the
00:38:20
crime and bravely intervened
00:38:23
she starts honking the horn she rolled
00:38:25
the window down and she said leave him
00:38:26
alone leave him alone and then she honks
00:38:27
the horn
00:38:28
oswaldo took off running leaving judge
00:38:31
delgado seriously wounded
00:38:33
we got the message that the offender was
00:38:36
running southbound
00:38:37
from the location where the robbery
00:38:39
happened gonzalez comes out of the
00:38:41
alley running and
00:38:44
he proceeds towards the street he
00:38:47
stumbled about here
00:38:49
when he saw us he dropped the knife
00:38:51
right about where the curb is we were
00:38:52
able to detain him right there
00:38:55
police knew oswaldo gonzalez had
00:38:57
attacked the judge
00:38:58
but they didn't yet realize he was also
00:39:00
the killer of anthony rafalla
00:39:03
two days later detectives arrested
00:39:05
carmen separately for the belmont store
00:39:07
robbery
00:39:08
where she had been identified they
00:39:11
arrested her
00:39:12
and didn't question her for about 24
00:39:14
hours because she was so strung out on
00:39:16
drugs
00:39:17
carmen claims she was suffering badly
00:39:19
from heroin withdrawal while in custody
00:39:21
she was vomiting she had chills she had
00:39:23
the shakes
00:39:24
all the withdrawal symptoms that you're
00:39:26
going to get from coming off of a
00:39:28
heroin jones it was terrible
00:39:31
i was sick so sick
00:39:34
when she finally sat down with police
00:39:37
carmen confessed to the store robbery
00:39:39
and then surprised detectives by
00:39:40
admitting she was an accomplice in the
00:39:42
rafallo murder as well
00:39:44
what she told us was that his father
00:39:46
spotted this
00:39:48
guy walking down the street accosted him
00:39:50
tried to get money from him
00:39:52
when the guy resisted us follow stabbed
00:39:54
him gradually
00:39:56
she said that she actually participated
00:39:57
in it and in fact acted as a lookout
00:40:00
both carmen ortiz and oswaldo gonzalez
00:40:03
were charged with murder
00:40:04
and armed robbery and sent to cook
00:40:06
county jail to await trial
00:40:08
i was at home it was in the evening my
00:40:11
friend calls me and says
00:40:12
please don't tell me that that's carmen
00:40:14
on tv
00:40:16
what are you talking about carmen's
00:40:19
defense attorney tried to get the
00:40:20
confession thrown out
00:40:22
he argued that carmen was under the
00:40:23
influence of drugs when police
00:40:25
questioned her
00:40:26
i totally believe it was a coarse
00:40:27
confession i don't believe that was
00:40:29
given knowingly
00:40:31
the judge denied the motion carmen's
00:40:34
confession was a hurdle the defense
00:40:36
could not get past
00:40:37
once the judge ruled that that statement
00:40:39
could be evidence in the trial
00:40:40
there was no defense at that point she
00:40:43
knew that he had a knife
00:40:44
she knew that he was going to do an
00:40:46
armed robbery
00:40:47
and she agreed to act as a lookout once
00:40:51
she agreed that was her purpose there
00:40:54
was to be a lookout for police and of
00:40:55
course she was
00:40:56
culpable in the crime she's just as
00:40:58
guilty of the murder as osvaldo
00:41:00
if you're there and you in any way aid a
00:41:03
bet further
00:41:04
the criminal designer intent or
00:41:06
participate in the proceeds
00:41:08
you're in it up to your neck okay you're
00:41:10
in for the penny you rent for the pound
00:41:11
literally
00:41:18
i was like oh my god i'm never gonna see
00:41:22
you know the outside no more when my
00:41:26
sister was
00:41:27
sentenced we cried a lot because
00:41:30
i didn't think it was fair but when i
00:41:33
heard the other
00:41:35
family speak i mean
00:41:39
there was a murder you know and
00:41:42
it was a family man he had children
00:41:45
if they hadn't been involved with heroin
00:41:48
either one of them
00:41:49
would this occurred i i don't think so i
00:41:51
you know it's not an excuse
00:41:53
because they both knew what they're
00:41:54
getting into but that habit became
00:41:57
all-consuming for both of them
00:41:59
carmen was incarcerated at the lincoln
00:42:01
correctional center in illinois
00:42:03
we left 20 females in a dorm
00:42:07
bunk bass i got the bottom i got my tv
00:42:10
and my radio
00:42:11
and my bible so i'm okay with that
00:42:18
evelyn took in her sister's daughter
00:42:20
jasmine and helped raise her
00:42:22
i'm so close to her because
00:42:26
she's just been so great to me and she
00:42:28
looks
00:42:29
exactly like my mom so it's like looking
00:42:33
at my mom
00:42:37
both evelyn and jasmine visit carmen as
00:42:39
often as they can
00:42:40
but carmen says it is painful not being
00:42:42
there for her daughter's life
00:42:44
i always fight her and encourage her i
00:42:46
always did that since
00:42:48
the day i got locked up it was hard for
00:42:51
me
00:42:52
knowing that my mom wasn't there for me
00:42:54
for my graduation but
00:42:58
i knew that she was proud i never got to
00:43:01
graduate from once because i was she
00:43:03
made me proud and i was like man
00:43:06
my baby's doing it you know in prison
00:43:09
carmen has overcome her addiction to
00:43:11
drugs and says her life is now
00:43:13
under the influence of god still
00:43:16
carmen says she lives every day with
00:43:18
regret for her part in anthony rafallo's
00:43:21
murder
00:43:22
i feel really terrible about it now that
00:43:25
i look at
00:43:26
it you know
00:43:29
it was wrong when i did so
00:43:30
[Music]
00:43:34
just gotta go my time carmen will be
00:43:37
released from prison in two and a half
00:43:38
years
00:43:39
she looks forward to being reunited with
00:43:41
her daughter and family
00:43:43
i would call it my big celebration they
00:43:45
my sister comes out
00:43:47
she's paying for what she did and
00:43:50
she found forgiveness in her heart
00:43:53
there's so much i miss
00:43:55
you know with her so and my family
00:43:59
you know so i just want to do the right
00:44:02
thing this time and
00:44:04
be more into my family you know good
00:44:07
friends
00:44:08
[Music]
