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Women Behind Bars - Season 1, Episode 5 - Delpha and Carmen - Full Episode

January 12, 2021 / 44:16

This episode of Women Behind Bars covers the cases of Delfa Sponaugle and Carmen Ortiz, focusing on their involvement in brutal murders driven by personal circumstances and drug addiction.

Delfa Sponaugle was convicted of orchestrating the murder of her husband, Dennis Sponaugle, in 1993. The episode details the gruesome nature of the crime, including the prolonged torture Dennis endured before his death. Delfa's troubled marriage, marked by physical abuse and infidelity, led her to plot his murder for life insurance money. Despite her claims of being a victim, evidence suggested she was the mastermind behind the crime.

Carmen Ortiz's story is intertwined with that of Oswaldo Gonzalez, her partner in crime. The episode recounts their descent into heroin addiction and a series of armed robberies that culminated in the murder of Polish immigrant Anthony Rafalo. Carmen acted as a lookout during the robbery and later confessed to her involvement, leading to her conviction.

The episode highlights the emotional and psychological toll of their actions, as both women reflect on their pasts and the consequences of their decisions. It also touches on the impact of their crimes on their families and the struggles they faced while incarcerated.

Through interviews and narrative storytelling, the episode presents a stark look at the lives of these women, their motivations, and the tragic outcomes of their choices.

TL;DR

Delfa Sponaugle and Carmen Ortiz committed brutal murders driven by personal struggles and addiction, leading to their convictions and imprisonment.

Episode

44:16
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on this episode of women behind bars
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one woman was convicted of ruthlessly
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murdering her husband
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there's some rope cord and they put it
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around
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mr sponaugle's neck and they each take
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one end of the rope
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to begin to pull didn't have anything to
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do with it
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i was a bystander then carmen ortiz
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tells her story
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she was an accomplice in a senseless
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killing for drugs
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he was like oh my god i think i you know
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killed somebody the next thing i know
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he's lungering at me
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trying to cut my my face or stab me in
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the neck with a knife
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two women two brutal crimes
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these are the stories of delfa spunago
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and carmen ortiz
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[Music]
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[Music]
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on august 20th 1993 police discovered
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the badly decomposed body of 40 year old
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dennis bounagle
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in a creek bed 50 feet from county line
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[Music]
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road
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it looked like the body was moving and
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boiling
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it was so covered with insect and
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maggots to kill somebody is bad enough
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but to torture that poor man for for
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four hours or so the way he was tortured
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was was unforgivable
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[Music]
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investigators arrested two people
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including 44 year old delfa spoonagle
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dennis's wife and accused her of
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orchestrating his murder
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there's no way she could have helped
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assist in killing anybody she just
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well she she couldn't have
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was delphas bunagal forced to
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participate in the gruesome murder of
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her husband
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or did she scheme to have him killed for
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money
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[Music]
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delfa bond grew up in southeastern
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oklahoma as the youngest of four sisters
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had a very supportive family and a
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a normal normal childhood
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[Music]
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all four girls would be in the kitchen
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and they would be laughing and
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and you know it's just the happiest
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atmosphere
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that you could you want to be around i
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was
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the baby family and i was
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spoiled by my sisters and my parents
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in fact delfa became the apple of her
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father's eye
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he cared so much for her because
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he was proud of her at school she was
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smart
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and got everything and well
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she was just always a loving caring kid
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by the time delpha reached high school
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she had blossomed into an attractive and
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popular young lady
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she was a beautician the boys in her
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class
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they all just loved her
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one of those boyfriends became delpha's
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first love
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i was a junior in high school his name
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was gary he was very good looking
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charming everything that
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you want in the high school sweetheart
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after graduating as valedictorian of her
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high school class
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delpha enrolled in cosmetology school
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and married gary
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i was rather spoiled so i i was used to
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having things my way
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of course when you get married things
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change but i didn't change with it
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at age 21 after just three years of
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marriage
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delpha filed for divorce i couldn't have
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children
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and that just pretty well set this home
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for the marriage
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i asked him to move out delfa married
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two more times and eventually had two
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children
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a boy and a girl after eight years of
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marriage to her third husband
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she divorced again i loaded up my car
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baby bed and all and took off
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went and moved to another town
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everywhere i moved my dad would build me
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a beauty shop
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so i wouldn't have to get out of the
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house i think she was looking for
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someone like her dad you know a
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father-like figure and
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you know someone that loved kids and and
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worked hard and was concerned about
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family and none of those
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fit the spot so my life went on just
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like it was
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had more responsibility with two kids
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but
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it was worth it she hated the fact that
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she was married as many times as she was
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she felt embarrassed
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she was still hunting for the right
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person
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that would compliment her life then
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when delpha was 36 years old she met 32
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year old dennis bonago
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he was good-looking he was quiet
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he was hard-working
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he was everything that i was looking for
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at the time in 1986
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the couple married he just told me that
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she said i'm going to make this work no
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matter what i don't
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ever want to think that i'm just jumped
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from marriage to marriage to marriage
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and never satisfied
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he was just the perfect husband he was
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real good to my family
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and he was just a good man i thought
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the couple started a silk screening
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business and bought a home in edmond
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but when her father died in 1988 delpha
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says dennis started drinking heavily
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and physically abusing her he had gotten
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drunk
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several times before that but had never
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done anything
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i think he was afraid of my father so he
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never did never delay hand on me until
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after my dad had died
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delpha recalls the first time dennis
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allegedly hit her
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he came home dry one evening and he
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proceeded to start hitting on me i was
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in shock when
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it happened to add insult to injury
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delpha says dennis was also having an
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affair with a barmaid
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i went to the bar one time with her to
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see if she was really in there and and
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where she was and with this girl
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and she said let's just leave him alone
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so there's nothing to do about it
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but according to the police rather than
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walk away from another failing marriage
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delpha hatched a deadly plan to get rid
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of her fourth husband
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with a man named charles holy cross mr
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holocaust was a friend of both
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spinals and told him that basically made
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the comment in
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to mr spanon if you ever heard delphi
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i'll hurt you back
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it was a comment just made off the cuff
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according to mr holy cross
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delphi then contacted holy cross later
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and said are you serious about that
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would you you know would you kill the
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dentist for a thousand dollars
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she had told mr holy cross at that point
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that she had already paid another man
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five hundred dollars to kill
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sponaugle but that man had just ran off
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with her money
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mr holy cross told her no he doesn't
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want any part of this
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she contacted him a second time and
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offered him a cut of the life insurance
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money
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if he would kill mr spinach
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no i'm not interested i'm not going to
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do that leave me alone
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delfa denies approaching charles holy
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cross
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i had made up my mind that i was going
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to make this one work
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regardless of what but i endured
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because i was into things we had a real
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nice house we had a swimming pool and
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a motor home so i thought well maybe it
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was time that i
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took a little bit of the bad stuff in
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with the good
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but the cracks in the marriage were
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becoming increasingly visible to
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outsiders
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and so was the alleged physical abuse i
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just
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begged her to leave him but she was
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scared of him
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she said he threatened her for if she
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ever did it he'd look her up anywhere
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she went
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when women behind bars continues she
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tells him dennis has to die we have to
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do this
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he got out of hand and he ended up
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killing me
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by august of 1993 delphas bounagle's
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fourth marriage
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to dennis bounagle was rapidly
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deteriorating
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delpha was in a marriage she didn't want
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to be in
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the business the family business was
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struggling she wanted to be rid
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of dennis and start anew
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there was a 150 000 insurance
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life insurance on dentist and
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there's also evidence to indicate that
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there was a stormy marriage
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she described dennis as being an abuser
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but
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my opinion was she was doing it to
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collect life insurance
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she knew exactly what she wanted to do
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she knew the people
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that she could use to get this done she
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had tried
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on two times prior to have dennis killed
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police say a determined alpha made plans
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for a third attempt to get rid of her
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husband
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this time she approached edwin woodward
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an acquaintance who called himself
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david my husband met him at a bar
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and he didn't have a place to stay so he
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brought him home and let him stay in our
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motor home
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for a couple of days until he found a
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place to live mr woodward
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worked for the spinaugles in their
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t-shirt business
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he was
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in a relationship with delpha sponaugle
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they were quite close there's some
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indication that there's some
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romantic time between the two defendants
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well we're best friends
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[Music]
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with stays in this room we have happy
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moments
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[Music]
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i don't think she was in love with
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woodward but she knew she had a
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flunky that would do whatever she told
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him to do
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delfa denies any romantic involvement
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with edwin woodward
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also known as david he was
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the town drunk
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woodward at this point in his life
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was an alcoholic
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[Music]
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and he basically did whatever
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delfa told him to do she tells him to go
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wait in the motorhome she later then
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comes back out ask him to come in the
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house
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tells him you know dennis has to die we
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have to do this you know i want you to
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kill him we'll be together
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you know plays on his emotions
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there was a door that was left unlocked
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or there was a
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a method by which mr woodward would be
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able to enter the house
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spinaugh is asleep in the master bedroom
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woodward then strikes
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sponaugle in the head with a baseball
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bat practically severing the ear offside
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his head
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mr spanego lost consciousness for a
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brief period of time
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but he didn't die mr sponaugle
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gets up in a fight then ensues between
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woodward and smanova mr spanago's
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fighting for his life at this point and
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he is
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able to gain control of woodward who
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drops the bat
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delpha then comes around picks the bat
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up herself and hits mr spinagle on the
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back of the head
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woodward then obtains a knife and begins
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to stab mr spinach
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the medical examiner's report revealed
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multiple stab wounds
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none of them lethal it is estimated the
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attack went on for four
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torturous hours he knows what he's doing
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but his heart's not really in to
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stabbing mr sponaugle
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but mr spanogle still won't die
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at this point mr sponaugle makes it out
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of bed and is crawling on his hands
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knees out in the hallway
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according to woodward delfa finally
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ordered him to retrieve a piece of rope
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from the garage
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he brings some rope in they put it
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around mr sponaugle's neck
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and they each take one end of the rope
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and begin to pull
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at that point mr spinal dies
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delpha tells a very different story one
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that begins with her husband coming home
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at 2 a.m on a night when the children
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were away with family
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delpha says dennis was drunk and forgot
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to lock the front door
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soon after he passed out after we went
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to bed
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i heard this loud noise and david
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hit dennis in the head with the bad and
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he had told me prior to this that
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he was going to teach dennis a lesson
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for abusing me he got out of hand
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and he ended up killing me but
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authorities believe
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delfa was in charge every step of the
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way even
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organizing the disposal of her husband's
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body they wrap
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dennis's body in the blanket they drive
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west till they get to this location to
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this low water bridge and delphi
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basically tells him stop here
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she tells him then to dump the body
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detectives also theorized that delpha
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wanted the body to be found
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without it there would be no insurance
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money
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delpha had planned ahead of time she
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knew that she was going to have to
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report him missing
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and that's when delphi directed him to
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go back down and reposition the body
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because it couldn't be seen
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very easily from the edge of the bridge
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after they dump the body
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they'd drive back they're going to go
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back to the house
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he later tells us delphi gave him a 20
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bill to go in buy a 12 pack of beer and
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let him keep the change
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that was all he ever gained out of the
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homicide itself
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delphi described herself as powerless
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and terrified that she might be next
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he drives back tells me that if i tell
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anyone that he'll kill me and my kids
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so i didn't tell anyone police point to
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evidence showing that delpha went to
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great lengths to cover up the crime
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in the days that followed the
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blood-spattered hallway and bedroom were
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repainted
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and the carpets professionally cleaned
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delpha
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also filed a false missing persons
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report
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i want them to know that he's missing
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he's out there
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i couldn't say hey he's under a bridge
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dead
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because i feared for my kid's life
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[Music]
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friday afternoon at four o'clock we got
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a call from the our kansas city police
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department or kansas city kansas
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they had received information from an
00:15:03
informant
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that edwin woodward had been up there
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and he made statements how he'd been
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involved in a killing
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in edmond so we begin searching missing
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persons
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sunday afternoon when the news reports
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that the county sheriff's office
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has located a body it's unidentified and
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it's rest of our city
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the amount of insect activity on this
00:15:25
body was horrendous
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he'd been here for a while in august
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and he was he was being totally consumed
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it wouldn't have been too much longer
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with all we would have had would been a
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skeletal remains
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woodward had to work his way down pull
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him back and the medallion fell
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off and that's where the good lord
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intervened and made sure there was a
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clue left for us
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woodward was brought in for questioning
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[Music]
00:16:06
if you're gonna be honest
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at that point woodward broke down and
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then
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began to tell us how at her suggestion
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planning carried out the homicide of mr
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spanaugle
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[Music]
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and at that point everything just went
00:16:34
totally
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authorities wasted no time in contacting
00:16:40
delpha spoonagle
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they called to ask me if i would come to
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the police station
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talk to him and they said they'd found
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dennis's body
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so i was relieved so i go in and
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they start telling me that dave they had
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arrested him and he confessed to
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killing dennis and he told him that i
00:17:02
had asked him to do it
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i was shocked at his interpretation
00:17:08
i didn't have anything to do with it
00:17:11
i was a bystander
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and a victim as far as it all goes
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both delpha and woodward were arrested
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on charges of first-degree murder
00:17:23
and conspiracy to commit murder delpha
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was also charged with solicitation to
00:17:28
commit murder
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this was such a horrendous crime
00:17:41
right they beat him with baseball bats
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they stabbed him they
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strangled him and then took him out and
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dumped his body out
00:17:50
and borrowed ditch where it would not be
00:17:51
found for several days
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i couldn't i think any punishment that
00:17:54
would be adequate in a case like this
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other than the death penalty
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mr macy was known as a law order a
00:18:01
district attorney
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no frills no thrills he's in his opinion
00:18:06
from the public interest he sought
00:18:07
justice in this case he felt justice was
00:18:10
putting both individuals on death row i
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also wanted to send a message out to
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other women in oklahoma county
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but if you want to get rid of your
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husband the proper place is in the
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divorce courts
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when women behind bars continues it was
00:18:25
a big shock i came back with the death
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penalty
00:18:30
and later in the program a robbery turns
00:18:33
to murder
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he was like oh my god i think i killed
00:18:37
somebody yeah he was shaking and i'm
00:18:39
like oh my god
00:18:40
and we was both scared so we started
00:18:42
doing more drugs
00:18:54
in february of 1995 delfa spoonagle was
00:18:58
on trial for the murder of her husband
00:19:00
dennis bounagle
00:19:01
based on the evidence presented and
00:19:03
prosecutors argument the delpha's motive
00:19:05
was to collect the proceeds from
00:19:06
dennis's life insurance
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the jury convicted delfa and her
00:19:10
co-defendant edward woodward
00:19:12
of first-degree murder the case was well
00:19:15
put together
00:19:16
well investigated all the questions that
00:19:18
had been asked
00:19:19
been answered the evidence was just
00:19:21
overwhelming
00:19:22
that these two people had committed this
00:19:24
horrible murder and my response was
00:19:26
to go ahead and try to get the most
00:19:28
severe punishment i can
00:19:30
woodward was given life without parole
00:19:33
delva received the death penalty
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and became the seventh woman ever on
00:19:38
oklahoma's death row
00:19:41
they never gave her a chance to tell her
00:19:44
story
00:19:44
she never got on up on the stand the
00:19:47
lawyer would
00:19:48
he wouldn't even hardly ask questions
00:19:51
she had a large amount of family they
00:19:54
thought that she would go home they
00:19:55
actually had brought a change of clothes
00:19:56
for her
00:19:58
well i just thought i wasn't going to
00:19:59
live i just thought i was just going to
00:20:03
pass out there right then when i heard
00:20:05
it so it was
00:20:08
a big shock and i came back with the
00:20:11
death penalty
00:20:12
i never dreamed i could end up in
00:20:14
something like that
00:20:15
even if dennis was not a good husband he
00:20:18
didn't deserve to be beaten stabbed
00:20:20
and choked to death and tossed off a
00:20:21
bridge
00:20:25
on april 10th 1995 delfa was transferred
00:20:29
to the maximum security prison
00:20:30
mabel bassett correctional center in
00:20:33
mcleod oklahoma
00:20:34
where she began serving her sentence on
00:20:36
death row
00:20:38
death draw was the most frightening
00:20:39
thing i'd ever been through
00:20:42
when i got there two women had been
00:20:45
there
00:20:46
nine years one had been there six
00:20:50
one had been there fourteen so
00:20:53
i just knew that all i had looked
00:20:55
forward to was death there was nothing
00:20:57
to do
00:20:58
except sit and think about
00:21:01
everything we reached out to her family
00:21:04
even more her kids
00:21:05
we stick together even through the rough
00:21:08
stuff
00:21:08
we'll stand by and continue to love her
00:21:10
more not less of what happened
00:21:12
and i had turned against god because i
00:21:15
thought how did he let this happen to me
00:21:16
you know
00:21:17
and i realized he was all that could
00:21:19
help me
00:21:20
and i turned my life over to him
00:21:25
two years after the original verdict the
00:21:27
state court of criminal appeals
00:21:29
overturned delpha's conviction
00:21:31
the court gave delpha the opportunity to
00:21:33
again stand trial
00:21:35
i wanted to go back to trial so that my
00:21:37
side of the story could come
00:21:38
out because i never was able to take the
00:21:41
stand
00:21:42
before it had been five years since i
00:21:44
had touched my kids and
00:21:47
there was hope you know then
00:21:50
i've been able to hug and love them
00:21:51
again
00:21:55
but in october 1998 delphi chose not to
00:21:58
stand trial
00:21:59
my attorney advised me not to she said
00:22:02
you've got the same d.a and the same
00:22:07
judge there were the chances of getting
00:22:09
the death penalty again
00:22:11
instead she pled guilty to first-degree
00:22:13
murder in exchange for a life sentence
00:22:15
without parole
00:22:17
so she talked me into taking a plea
00:22:18
bargain
00:22:20
and i
00:22:24
i didn't realize how long life that was
00:22:28
delphi got life without parole and she
00:22:30
would be in prison
00:22:31
the rest of her life but i still wanted
00:22:34
her held accountable
00:22:37
seriously accountable for the crime she
00:22:40
committed
00:22:40
i still think death was the appropriate
00:22:42
punishment however she's going to be
00:22:45
she's got life without parole so she
00:22:47
should never be paroled
00:22:49
and she's locked up with the meanest
00:22:51
women in the world
00:22:53
after 14 years behind bars delpha says
00:22:56
she's used to the routine
00:22:58
start my day get dressed in the morning
00:23:03
clean my room
00:23:06
go out and help clean the pod spend the
00:23:08
afternoon either reading or listening to
00:23:10
my radio
00:23:11
in the evenings i watch tv
00:23:14
weekly visits at the prison with her
00:23:16
extended family and her children
00:23:18
provide a solid support system we're
00:23:20
closer than we ever have been
00:23:23
i have a three-year-old granddaughter
00:23:26
she's a light of my life
00:23:28
still delpha's incarceration has taken
00:23:31
its toll on her family
00:23:33
it's hard to know that she's not with
00:23:36
her kids
00:23:38
she's not able to be in her
00:23:41
granddaughter's life
00:23:42
she's not here to help her mother i hope
00:23:45
and pray
00:23:46
someday that she will get out of there
00:23:49
she don't deserve
00:23:50
to even be in there and everybody
00:23:52
practically knows that
00:23:53
i regret not not reporting it
00:23:57
i should have done that the day it
00:23:58
happened
00:24:00
that's my biggest regret
00:24:03
delfa still proclaims her innocence and
00:24:06
scoffs at the notion that she killed her
00:24:07
husband for insurance money
00:24:09
i thought it's ridiculous cause a
00:24:10
hundred thousand dollars in much money
00:24:13
not for the debts that we had i think
00:24:15
she made a cold-blooded decision to burn
00:24:18
her husband to get the insurance she
00:24:20
gambled she lost
00:24:21
i think she ought to be in the river
00:24:23
today the rest of her life in the
00:24:24
penitentiary
00:24:25
the one thing i'd like to say is that
00:24:27
you never can tell when you'll be the
00:24:29
one behind the bars
00:24:31
so live your life as if it's the last
00:24:33
day
00:24:34
live it to the fullest
00:24:37
when women behind bars continues i
00:24:40
didn't think about the family anything
00:24:41
about
00:24:42
my god or anything but nobody you know
00:24:45
just
00:24:45
i want to get high for more information
00:24:48
about women behind bars
00:24:50
go to www.wetv.com
00:25:03
on march 23 1998 a polish immigrant
00:25:07
anthony rafalo was robbed and stabbed to
00:25:09
death on a street corner at 2 30 a.m
00:25:12
somewhat close to the scene they found a
00:25:14
large 14 inch knife
00:25:17
in the days that followed a rash of
00:25:19
similar armed robberies terrorized the
00:25:21
neighborhood
00:25:22
when police finally arrested eswaldo
00:25:24
gonzalez for the crimes
00:25:25
they learned he had an accomplice carmen
00:25:28
ortiz
00:25:29
a 26 year old mother and heroin addict
00:25:32
who denied taking part in the killings
00:25:35
she knew that he had a knife she knew
00:25:37
that he was going to do an armed robbery
00:25:39
and she agreed to act as a lookout she's
00:25:42
just as guilty of the murder as volvo
00:25:45
was carmen a desperate junkie who simply
00:25:47
witnessed the crime
00:25:49
or did she knowingly help commit a
00:25:51
senseless murder
00:25:56
[Music]
00:26:01
yeah i was too happy growing up i was
00:26:05
um just
00:26:09
wow you know once i got to
00:26:12
age 12 i was just
00:26:16
running wild she was hanging out with
00:26:19
her boyfriend and
00:26:21
you know just doing the wrong things at
00:26:23
that age
00:26:25
carmen ortiz's family lived on the north
00:26:27
side of chicago in a diverse area known
00:26:29
as logan square
00:26:31
the neighborhood had a very unique mix
00:26:33
because we had
00:26:34
gang activity as well as we had family
00:26:37
living here
00:26:38
polish immigrants hispanics all within
00:26:40
the same
00:26:41
area we grew up very poor
00:26:45
but we were close the oldest of six
00:26:47
children carmen always had a special
00:26:49
bond with her younger sister evelyn it's
00:26:52
like
00:26:53
me and her best friends you know she
00:26:56
would tell me everything i would tell
00:26:57
her everything we would never judge each
00:26:59
other
00:26:59
i kind of wanted to be like her at one
00:27:01
point because i thought she was so cool
00:27:03
outgoing very spontaneous she's
00:27:07
she was the leader of the pack in high
00:27:09
school carmen learned she was pregnant
00:27:11
and had to face grown-up realities at
00:27:14
age 15 when i got pregnant it was hard
00:27:17
for me
00:27:20
i was i was a little girl she dropped
00:27:22
out of school to raise her daughter
00:27:24
jasmine with long-time boyfriend
00:27:26
carlos my sister was so
00:27:29
loving to her daughter well i remember
00:27:33
since i was little
00:27:35
she was a very very good mom we did
00:27:38
everything together we talked and
00:27:40
she was affectionate very affectionate
00:27:42
with me
00:27:44
but carmen admits she juggled the
00:27:45
demands of motherhood with a partying
00:27:47
lifestyle
00:27:48
in which she acquired new bad habits
00:27:51
i started using drugs and
00:27:55
i just didn't know how to stop i
00:27:58
smoke weed and snoring pain at that age
00:28:03
when her drug use graduated to heroin
00:28:05
carmen's life began a rapid downward
00:28:07
spiral
00:28:08
i really got hooked to heroin
00:28:11
when i was 24 and that's when my life
00:28:15
changed
00:28:17
[Music]
00:28:19
she became addicted as hard as anybody
00:28:22
i've ever seen
00:28:23
i was trying to get high to forget the
00:28:25
problems and
00:28:27
i was like happy and then once the word
00:28:30
off i'd be
00:28:31
sad again and you know the heroin
00:28:35
addiction put a strain on carmen's
00:28:36
relationship with jasmine's father
00:28:38
they argued a lot my father he wanted
00:28:41
her
00:28:42
so you know to stop using drugs
00:28:46
you couldn't take it anymore so he just
00:28:48
left
00:28:50
other friends and family became alarmed
00:28:52
at the drastic change in carmen
00:28:54
you know i was scared i was scared you
00:28:56
know because i didn't understand it i
00:28:57
was like you know
00:28:58
she's a whole different person so you
00:29:01
looked at her you could not even
00:29:02
recognize her
00:29:03
and she was real thin her face was
00:29:05
sunken in
00:29:06
and she had broken out she was itching
00:29:08
everywhere
00:29:09
wasn't talking straight it wasn't her
00:29:13
carmen states that her drug habit became
00:29:15
all-consuming
00:29:16
and she pulled away from everyone we
00:29:18
just kind of judged
00:29:20
carmen at the time and you know we
00:29:22
accused her
00:29:23
you're not taking care of your daughter
00:29:24
what the heck is going on in your
00:29:25
apartment you know what
00:29:27
you know why don't you clean this place
00:29:29
i didn't
00:29:30
think about the family anything about my
00:29:32
daughter i didn't think
00:29:33
about nobody you know just i want to get
00:29:35
high i want to do this
00:29:38
i was angry at her because
00:29:42
[Music]
00:29:44
i knew that wasn't her
00:29:46
[Music]
00:29:48
she was a different person and i just
00:29:51
felt it
00:29:56
carmen met oswaldo gonzalez at a party
00:29:58
in january of 1998.
00:30:00
he was a former gang member and also
00:30:03
addicted to drugs
00:30:04
just you know hanging out
00:30:08
and stuff getting high morning moon at
00:30:10
night
00:30:12
yeah i knew right away that he was
00:30:17
he was going to bring my mom to a lot of
00:30:19
trouble
00:30:20
espalda was a heroin addict he had no
00:30:23
compunction about using force to get
00:30:24
what he wanted to feed his heroin
00:30:25
addiction
00:30:27
carmen's daughter says her mother
00:30:28
routinely disappeared for hours with
00:30:30
oswaldo
00:30:31
i used to be scared for her i used to
00:30:34
think that
00:30:35
that she would be dead at night
00:30:40
jasmine's father finally took full
00:30:42
custody of the 10 year old and jasmine
00:30:44
moved in with him
00:30:46
carmen regrets that not even losing her
00:30:48
daughter could break the stranglehold
00:30:49
drugs had on her
00:30:50
i was just i don't know i was
00:30:55
just lost i didn't i wasn't thinking
00:30:58
right you know my mind was just gone
00:31:02
carmen's sister evelyn didn't know how
00:31:04
far gone her sister was
00:31:05
until she came face to face with her in
00:31:07
front of a local restaurant
00:31:09
i'm sitting in my car and i see someone
00:31:12
trying to approach me but it's kind of
00:31:13
common in logan square
00:31:15
where people would do stuff like that
00:31:17
they want to come up to you and ask you
00:31:18
for
00:31:19
spare change i was walking and i was
00:31:22
trying to get some drugs you know this
00:31:24
person is coming up to me with a hoodie
00:31:27
and i don't see this person's face but
00:31:30
when it gets close to my
00:31:31
car i noticed that it was my sister
00:31:34
carmen
00:31:34
asking me for change i see my sister and
00:31:38
just like my heart dropped i was like
00:31:40
man
00:31:40
i said carmen what are you doing and it
00:31:44
you know i started crying there and she
00:31:46
cried and i got out of my car
00:31:48
and i just wanted to hug her and and
00:31:54
so i knew
00:31:57
i know it was time
00:32:01
for me to stop judging her like she
00:32:04
wanted to
00:32:05
help me and hug me and
00:32:09
i didn't want her to see me like that so
00:32:11
i was just like trying to brush her off
00:32:13
you know she says i'm sorry emily i love
00:32:16
you i'm sorry
00:32:17
and she walked away so fast
00:32:21
[Music]
00:32:26
over the next few days evelyn says she
00:32:28
drove up and down logan square
00:32:30
until she found her sister again so i
00:32:33
took carmen in
00:32:34
to my apartment i gave her clean clothes
00:32:36
and a clean towel
00:32:38
and i cooked her favorite dish i made
00:32:41
her bed
00:32:42
i did go to her house but then i left
00:32:46
because i just wanted to go and get him
00:32:52
carmen returned to the streets where she
00:32:54
and oswaldo needed quick cash to buy
00:32:56
drugs
00:32:58
we started um doing robberies
00:33:02
i mean the usual robbery back then 70
00:33:05
bucks 50 bucks 100 bucks i mean
00:33:07
relatively low amount of money but it
00:33:10
was enough to buy six bags of heroin
00:33:12
that carmen claims was her daily habit
00:33:16
a lot of their robberies happen in a two
00:33:19
to four block radius
00:33:21
from their apartment which is directly
00:33:23
behind us over on
00:33:24
sawyer police files state that oswaldo
00:33:27
armed himself with a butcher knife
00:33:29
hidden up his sleeve
00:33:31
he also preferred to target polish or
00:33:33
hispanic immigrants
00:33:34
along milwaukee avenue in the chicago
00:33:36
neighborhood
00:33:37
they won't complain to the police
00:33:39
they're robbed because they're afraid of
00:33:40
getting deported
00:33:42
carmen recalls that at 10 p.m on march
00:33:44
22nd
00:33:45
oswaldo accosted a man outside of a
00:33:47
blockbuster
00:33:48
while she stood nearby but the victim
00:33:50
ran away
00:33:52
the pair grew more desperate as they
00:33:53
walked up and down the strip
00:33:55
around 2 30 in the morning carmen says
00:33:58
oswaldo pointed out their next victim
00:34:01
he seen this man standing at the corner
00:34:04
store
00:34:05
i'm so i think he was drunk a little bit
00:34:08
what she was supposed to do was stand on
00:34:09
the corner look out for the police if
00:34:11
she spots the police or someone coming
00:34:12
to yell to
00:34:14
mosfaldo i was waiting across the street
00:34:17
he told me to wait and i looked over
00:34:20
there
00:34:20
and um he was fighting with ozzie and
00:34:24
i'm looking around the streets you know
00:34:28
for cops so you know people
00:34:32
i was wallow stab this guy in the
00:34:34
stomach and he dies there right in the
00:34:35
sidewalk
00:34:37
the guy fell on the floor so i was like
00:34:41
oh my god well what happened what you do
00:34:43
to him
00:34:44
he's like nothing nothing come on let's
00:34:46
go let's go
00:34:48
when women behind bars continues
00:34:50
carmen's partner assaults a judge
00:34:53
the next thing i know he's flunk he's
00:34:55
lungering at me
00:34:56
trying to cut my my face or stab me in
00:34:58
the neck with a knife the knife was a
00:35:00
long knife
00:35:05
[Music]
00:35:09
in march of 1998 two heroin junkies
00:35:12
carmen ortiz and oswaldo gonzalez
00:35:14
went on an armed robbery spree to pay
00:35:17
for their drugs on the streets of
00:35:18
chicago
00:35:19
one of the robberies went terribly wrong
00:35:22
and ended in the murder of a family man
00:35:24
who had recently immigrated to america
00:35:26
from poland
00:35:30
as wallow stab this guy in the stomach i
00:35:31
mean that's painful injury
00:35:33
and he dies there right in the sidewalk
00:35:36
it stayed in my mind that he was
00:35:38
on the floor this image right there just
00:35:40
stayed in my mind
00:35:43
police records show that oswaldo
00:35:45
discarded the butcher knife
00:35:46
and both he and carmen fled back to her
00:35:48
apartment
00:35:49
he was like oh my god i think i killed
00:35:52
somebody
00:35:53
yeah he was shaking and i'm like oh my
00:35:54
god and we was both scared so we started
00:35:57
doing more drugs
00:36:03
detectives arrived on the scene they
00:36:04
cordoned off the area and in a
00:36:05
wastebasket
00:36:06
somewhat close to the scene they found a
00:36:08
large 14 inch knife
00:36:10
i'm guessing a blade i'd be a good nine
00:36:12
inch blade
00:36:14
police had the murder weapon but no
00:36:15
other leads to who committed the killing
00:36:18
carmen says she wanted nothing more to
00:36:20
do with oswaldo after the incident
00:36:23
i was so scared i thought he was going
00:36:25
to kill me
00:36:26
you know i said something i was just so
00:36:30
scared despite her fear carmen admits
00:36:33
she met up with oswaldo the next day
00:36:35
to feed her daily drug habit they held
00:36:38
up a small grocery store on belmont
00:36:40
avenue this was a store in her
00:36:42
neighborhood
00:36:43
close to where she lived they had done
00:36:44
robberies together before they knew
00:36:47
what part they're going to play he held
00:36:49
a knife on
00:36:50
on the store owner or manager and said
00:36:53
open the cash register
00:36:54
they got away with some money but the uh
00:36:57
the store person knew her
00:36:58
because she had shopped there carmen
00:37:01
says that within hours the two are out
00:37:03
of drugs again
00:37:04
and prowling the streets for someone
00:37:06
else to rob
00:37:07
this lady was coming out from work
00:37:11
and um i was with i was while
00:37:14
he told me to wait here i'm gonna you
00:37:17
know
00:37:19
rob this lady i took the purse
00:37:22
then we both went in
00:37:26
all the robberies appeared to be related
00:37:28
due to the fact that
00:37:29
they were all occurring around the same
00:37:31
time the same area the same methods
00:37:34
ortiz claims she finally stopped taking
00:37:36
part in the crimes
00:37:37
while oswaldo continued his
00:37:39
knife-wielding attacks over the next
00:37:41
several days
00:37:44
on the morning of april 10 1998 luck ran
00:37:47
out for carmen's partner when he
00:37:49
attacked a circuit court judge on his
00:37:50
way to work
00:37:52
i was on my way to the logan square
00:37:54
station
00:37:55
that's where i catch my subway in the
00:37:58
mornings
00:37:58
approximately at this location is where
00:38:01
ozzie had
00:38:02
accosted him and robbed them and stabbed
00:38:04
the judge
00:38:05
the next thing i know he's flunk he's
00:38:07
lungering at me
00:38:08
trying to cut my my face or stab me in
00:38:11
the neck with a knife the knife was a
00:38:12
long knife
00:38:13
it's a carving knife he punctured my
00:38:16
lung he stabbed me right through the
00:38:17
back right to allow
00:38:19
a neighbor in her car witnessed the
00:38:20
crime and bravely intervened
00:38:23
she starts honking the horn she rolled
00:38:25
the window down and she said leave him
00:38:26
alone leave him alone and then she honks
00:38:27
the horn
00:38:28
oswaldo took off running leaving judge
00:38:31
delgado seriously wounded
00:38:33
we got the message that the offender was
00:38:36
running southbound
00:38:37
from the location where the robbery
00:38:39
happened gonzalez comes out of the
00:38:41
alley running and
00:38:44
he proceeds towards the street he
00:38:47
stumbled about here
00:38:49
when he saw us he dropped the knife
00:38:51
right about where the curb is we were
00:38:52
able to detain him right there
00:38:55
police knew oswaldo gonzalez had
00:38:57
attacked the judge
00:38:58
but they didn't yet realize he was also
00:39:00
the killer of anthony rafalla
00:39:03
two days later detectives arrested
00:39:05
carmen separately for the belmont store
00:39:07
robbery
00:39:08
where she had been identified they
00:39:11
arrested her
00:39:12
and didn't question her for about 24
00:39:14
hours because she was so strung out on
00:39:16
drugs
00:39:17
carmen claims she was suffering badly
00:39:19
from heroin withdrawal while in custody
00:39:21
she was vomiting she had chills she had
00:39:23
the shakes
00:39:24
all the withdrawal symptoms that you're
00:39:26
going to get from coming off of a
00:39:28
heroin jones it was terrible
00:39:31
i was sick so sick
00:39:34
when she finally sat down with police
00:39:37
carmen confessed to the store robbery
00:39:39
and then surprised detectives by
00:39:40
admitting she was an accomplice in the
00:39:42
rafallo murder as well
00:39:44
what she told us was that his father
00:39:46
spotted this
00:39:48
guy walking down the street accosted him
00:39:50
tried to get money from him
00:39:52
when the guy resisted us follow stabbed
00:39:54
him gradually
00:39:56
she said that she actually participated
00:39:57
in it and in fact acted as a lookout
00:40:00
both carmen ortiz and oswaldo gonzalez
00:40:03
were charged with murder
00:40:04
and armed robbery and sent to cook
00:40:06
county jail to await trial
00:40:08
i was at home it was in the evening my
00:40:11
friend calls me and says
00:40:12
please don't tell me that that's carmen
00:40:14
on tv
00:40:16
what are you talking about carmen's
00:40:19
defense attorney tried to get the
00:40:20
confession thrown out
00:40:22
he argued that carmen was under the
00:40:23
influence of drugs when police
00:40:25
questioned her
00:40:26
i totally believe it was a coarse
00:40:27
confession i don't believe that was
00:40:29
given knowingly
00:40:31
the judge denied the motion carmen's
00:40:34
confession was a hurdle the defense
00:40:36
could not get past
00:40:37
once the judge ruled that that statement
00:40:39
could be evidence in the trial
00:40:40
there was no defense at that point she
00:40:43
knew that he had a knife
00:40:44
she knew that he was going to do an
00:40:46
armed robbery
00:40:47
and she agreed to act as a lookout once
00:40:51
she agreed that was her purpose there
00:40:54
was to be a lookout for police and of
00:40:55
course she was
00:40:56
culpable in the crime she's just as
00:40:58
guilty of the murder as osvaldo
00:41:00
if you're there and you in any way aid a
00:41:03
bet further
00:41:04
the criminal designer intent or
00:41:06
participate in the proceeds
00:41:08
you're in it up to your neck okay you're
00:41:10
in for the penny you rent for the pound
00:41:11
literally
00:41:18
i was like oh my god i'm never gonna see
00:41:22
you know the outside no more when my
00:41:26
sister was
00:41:27
sentenced we cried a lot because
00:41:30
i didn't think it was fair but when i
00:41:33
heard the other
00:41:35
family speak i mean
00:41:39
there was a murder you know and
00:41:42
it was a family man he had children
00:41:45
if they hadn't been involved with heroin
00:41:48
either one of them
00:41:49
would this occurred i i don't think so i
00:41:51
you know it's not an excuse
00:41:53
because they both knew what they're
00:41:54
getting into but that habit became
00:41:57
all-consuming for both of them
00:41:59
carmen was incarcerated at the lincoln
00:42:01
correctional center in illinois
00:42:03
we left 20 females in a dorm
00:42:07
bunk bass i got the bottom i got my tv
00:42:10
and my radio
00:42:11
and my bible so i'm okay with that
00:42:18
evelyn took in her sister's daughter
00:42:20
jasmine and helped raise her
00:42:22
i'm so close to her because
00:42:26
she's just been so great to me and she
00:42:28
looks
00:42:29
exactly like my mom so it's like looking
00:42:33
at my mom
00:42:37
both evelyn and jasmine visit carmen as
00:42:39
often as they can
00:42:40
but carmen says it is painful not being
00:42:42
there for her daughter's life
00:42:44
i always fight her and encourage her i
00:42:46
always did that since
00:42:48
the day i got locked up it was hard for
00:42:51
me
00:42:52
knowing that my mom wasn't there for me
00:42:54
for my graduation but
00:42:58
i knew that she was proud i never got to
00:43:01
graduate from once because i was she
00:43:03
made me proud and i was like man
00:43:06
my baby's doing it you know in prison
00:43:09
carmen has overcome her addiction to
00:43:11
drugs and says her life is now
00:43:13
under the influence of god still
00:43:16
carmen says she lives every day with
00:43:18
regret for her part in anthony rafallo's
00:43:21
murder
00:43:22
i feel really terrible about it now that
00:43:25
i look at
00:43:26
it you know
00:43:29
it was wrong when i did so
00:43:30
[Music]
00:43:34
just gotta go my time carmen will be
00:43:37
released from prison in two and a half
00:43:38
years
00:43:39
she looks forward to being reunited with
00:43:41
her daughter and family
00:43:43
i would call it my big celebration they
00:43:45
my sister comes out
00:43:47
she's paying for what she did and
00:43:50
she found forgiveness in her heart
00:43:53
there's so much i miss
00:43:55
you know with her so and my family
00:43:59
you know so i just want to do the right
00:44:02
thing this time and
00:44:04
be more into my family you know good
00:44:07
friends
00:44:08
[Music]

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

  • 80
    Most heartbreaking
  • 75
    Most controversial
  • 70
    Most shocking
  • 70
    Most surprising

Episode Highlights

  • Murder and Betrayal
    Delfa orchestrates the brutal murder of her husband Dennis for insurance money.
    “To kill somebody is bad enough, but to torture that poor man...”
    @ 01m 33s
    January 12, 2021
  • A Shocking Verdict
    Delfa Spoonagle receives the death penalty, shocking her family and community.
    “I just thought I wasn't going to live... it was a big shock.”
    @ 20m 15s
    January 12, 2021
  • Life on Death Row
    Delfa describes her terrifying experience on death row after being convicted of murder.
    “Death row was the most frightening thing I'd ever been through.”
    @ 20m 39s
    January 12, 2021
  • Carmen's Downward Spiral
    Carmen's life began a rapid downward spiral after becoming addicted to heroin.
    “I really got hooked to heroin when I was 24 and that’s when my life changed.”
    @ 28m 11s
    January 12, 2021
  • The Murder of Anthony Rafalo
    Carmen and her partner Oswaldo commit a robbery that ends in murder.
    “As Oswaldo stabbed this guy in the stomach, I mean that’s a painful injury.”
    @ 35m 30s
    January 12, 2021
  • Carmen's Regret
    Carmen expresses deep regret for her role in the murder and her past decisions.
    “I feel really terrible about it now that I look at it, you know.”
    @ 43m 22s
    January 12, 2021

Episode Quotes

  • To kill somebody is bad enough, but to torture that poor man...
    Women Behind Bars - Season 1, Episode 5 - Delpha and Carmen - Full Episode
  • I was shocked at his interpretation.
    Women Behind Bars - Season 1, Episode 5 - Delpha and Carmen - Full Episode
  • Even if Dennis was not a good husband, he didn't deserve to be beaten...
    Women Behind Bars - Season 1, Episode 5 - Delpha and Carmen - Full Episode
  • Live your life as if it’s the last day.
    Women Behind Bars - Season 1, Episode 5 - Delpha and Carmen - Full Episode
  • I was just lost, I wasn’t thinking right.
    Women Behind Bars - Season 1, Episode 5 - Delpha and Carmen - Full Episode
  • I feel really terrible about it now that I look at it, you know.
    Women Behind Bars - Season 1, Episode 5 - Delpha and Carmen - Full Episode

Key Moments

  • Brutal Crime00:43
  • Murder Discovery01:16
  • Life Insurance Plot08:48
  • Death Row Experience20:39
  • Family Impact23:33
  • Life Behind Bars24:25
  • Desperate Crimes35:12
  • Regret and Reflection43:22

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

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