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What's good my ex-homies? It's your boy Jacob Gooden. We are back for another
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week of the exhomeschoolers club. That's right, the best exhomeschooler podcast
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this side of the internet. And uh I'm excited for this one, man. This week I've got a new exhome friend, Noah. He's
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on the show. Oh my gosh, this conversation was so much fun. It was like two old friends. You know when you
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like hang out with an old friend and it feels like 5 minutes have gone by, but it's actually been like 6 hours. That's
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how this conversation went. Okay, it was just so much fun. We talk all about Noah's childhood and his upbringing.
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homeschool experience, but we talk a lot and I mean a lot about art and creativity, the creative expression,
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things that him and I are just very passionate about and uh it was just so much fun. It like it was hard to end it.
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It was that much fun. But I hope you guys will enjoy it as much as uh I enjoyed having this conversation. But
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before I turn it over to past me, I just want to ask one favor of you guys. I've
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got a newsletter. It comes out every two weeks to your inbox. It's just little
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updates of like what what the show's doing, maybe what you missed, some of the books I'm reading, some of the
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resources I find, I don't know, other little tidbits and things that happened
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in my life. So, if you wouldn't mind, go down first link in the description and
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sign up for my email newsletter. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to
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past me. [Music] >> Well, Noah, we're here. Oh my gosh, it's a pleasure to have you on. Um, I'm so
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stoked you're here because uh we got connected kind of through Janev and uh and through your book that just came out
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that I I made a video on, but mixed up metaphors you illustrated and and um >> yeah, I just knew I kind of wanted to
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have you on the show. You just seem like a fun guy and and so anyway, welcome to
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the X Homeschoolers Club. >> Happy to be here. Thanks for uh having me. Yeah, when Janev uh when I listened
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to the podcast, well, she also told me that she was doing it with you, too um >> before it got released, I was jealous. I
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was like, "Oh, that sounds like a fun time." >> Yeah. So, >> I'm glad we we were able to connect and
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make it happen. And yeah, I was on her show. If you >> for folks who don't know, she was on
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Janev Dubet and she was on a couple months ago. Um so, I'll link it down in the show notes and stuff, but she also
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has a home a homeschool x homeschooler podcast as well called homeschooled. Um that'll all be in the show notes and
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stuff, but you were on there. you were I think her like first or second interview.
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>> I forget like if it was if I was recorded first and then released second
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or something like that. But yeah. >> Yeah. I that was how I did this show. I
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I recorded with somebody just to kind of get like the nerves out of the way. Um but then I ended up doing a solo as my
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first my first episode. But >> Oh, it's good to test it out like just to see if you like doing it, you know,
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at all before you start being like, "Yes, this is what I'm doing." Yeah.
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>> Absolutely. Yeah. No, for sure. But, uh, I'm stoked to have you and, um, I'm
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going to I'm going to kind of turn it over to you for a few minutes and just
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like tell us a little bit about like growing up a homeschooled kid. Were you homeschooled all the way through? Where
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did you grow up? Siblings, curriculum, whatever, you know, whatever you feel like whatever the spirit is moving, I
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guess, uh, in you, but give us a little hint, uh, you know, a little taste of your homechool experience.
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>> So, I started homeschooling like and kept on homeschooling my entire life up
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until college. Uh, the first time I think I was like in a real like a quote unquote real high school building um was
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when I took the SATs like right before going into college. Um, I have an older sister, a younger sister, and my
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youngest sibling is a brother. So, four of us total. Um, and when my mom had my older sister,
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um, she was a teacher at a school in New York and didn't like love everything
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that they did there at the school, which is like pretty common, um, to not love everything at a school. Um, but my dad,
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I believe, was the one that recommended. He was like, "Well, why don't you just
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teach her at home and just homeschool?" um which I didn't find out until later
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was like kind of a new thing like it wasn't definitely not as socially accepted as it is now. Um and it was I
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think it was like a legal like not too long before that. Um but yeah, so my mom started homeschooling my sister. I think
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she found some good communities in New York and then uh had me kept it going and then we moved to Jersey which had
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even like fewer restrictions for homeschooling. And so we just got to totally make it our own. But um I in
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general like liked homeschooling. There's definitely I mean I think with anything there's pros and cons and like
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things that you love and things that you don't. Um but overall I think it worked
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out really well for the type of student that I was. Um, and uh, I'm very like
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artistically inclined and um, yeah, and I think um, having that opportunity to kind of like follow those
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passions was really beneficial to me. Um, and I ended up even being able to kind of combine my junior and senior
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year of high school together because I knew that I wanted to go to art school. I knew that I wanted to like where I
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wanted to go with my life and I had already been like creating a portfolio and everything. So, um, being
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homeschooled enabled us to do that and just be like, "All right, take the SATs,
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see how you do. If you get good enough grades to go into and like you apply to college and you get in like then let's
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do it." And I did. And it was a pretty smooth transition honestly too because
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since we did have like good homeschool communities. So that's like the I think
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summary of my homeschool experience. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. U it sounds
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like your parents also like leaned into the things that you were interested in like with art and and kind of pushing
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that like my my parents were very similar and that like as we found things that we were really passionate about.
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I've said it many times on the show like I loved pirates as a kid and my mom was
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like let's build a whole history curriculum around just pirates and like learning that era of history and the
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golden age of pirates you know um and music and art and all those kinds of things were like very important to them
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and they were they saw that >> I think my mom also kind of knew that like you know it's a lot easier to teach
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a kid who's really like passionate about something and so rather than like force
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us to always be like trudge you know and and just like drag us through something
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that we really didn't like and we're not going to retain the information. She's
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like, "Can I tweak it or twist it to like actually meet what they like need?"
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And that's not to say like everyone needs math and science, right? Like there are going to be those things that
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it's like, "Yeah, we got to kind of like >> you got to do this." Um, but the rest of
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it there's so much room to like grow. So like, so when it came to art, like what
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were I what were you into as a kid? Like was it was it painting, drawing, like or
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other forms of art? Um, I really like when I was I was trying to think when I first like I always liked art. I was
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always a pretty good artist and I think the um like support helped me like believe that too about myself that I was
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a good artist. So I just kept on doing it because it was fun and kind of like meditative um before I knew that what
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meditative was. Um, but uh, yeah, I liked uh, I think the earliest like career goal that I had for art was to be
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a comic book artist. Okay. >> Like I did a few like back when like comverses became popular for my
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generation. I was like drawing on friends uh, Converse uh, shoes with like Sharpies and then I also did like
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watercolors for like my orthodontists and like random stuff. So I was doing like all different kinds of art. But I
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think when I was like thinking of it as a career, I was like, "Oh, a comic book
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artist. That would be really cool." >> No, that's so sick cuz like it's it's
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fun to like look back and like see >> those like dreams as a kid and then where where you are today. We we'll get
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into that, but like you know, and the things like like this book, it's like very obvious that like you I mean you're
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a great illustrator, but like I I was flipping through it and I was like I was like I see comic book art in here. Like
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I just you know because I you know I'm a nerd. I like comic books. Um, >> oh, I love it. Yeah. Wait, what what uh
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were you DC or Marvel? >> Oh, that's a tough one. I I think I mostly as a kid was DC and then as I've
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gotten old older, I've fallen more in love with Marvel, but I had some somebody gave me a whole binder of like
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Superman comics as a kid and um so DC was really where it was at. But I was like big into like I loved Super
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Superman was like my guy. Everyone talks about like I love Batman and I'm like I
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didn't love Batman till I was older. um >> when I got more mature and yeah, life
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got scary. >> Were you also into comics as a kid and stuff? >> Oh, yeah. Well, like to what you were
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saying about following your passions and like making learning fun. Um my mom was
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definitely very enthusiastic about learning and like that I think is one of the big things I picked up from her um
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was just to have like an energy about like and and a love of learning. But so I always loved uh Marvel comics because
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I remember reading like me and my brother were obsessed with it and I remember reading an interview with
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Stanley um and he said that he was so inspired by like science to make his comics. So like and he kind of picked
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themes. So it was like for the X-Men who are like the mutants. He had read something in like a science magazine
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where it was like the frog that was born with like two heads or the or the snake
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with extra eyes or something like that and he was like I wonder what would happen if a human was born with like
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wings or could like was extra furry and had big hands or something. Um and then so I was like oh that's kind of a cool
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way of taking reality and making a story a fictional story out of it. And even with like Spider-Man, like I before
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comic books, I wanted to be a zoologologist. >> Okay. >> And I loved animals. He said that that's
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what he came up with like for Spider-Man. Like if you'll notice, a lot of Spider-Man's villains are animals.
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Like you have like Dr. Octopus, the rhino, the scorpion, like >> and uh the vulture. Um so I love that
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kind of blending in the Marvel comics of like real science and like the emotional
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struggle that they have their superheroes go through. Um, which it definitely helped like
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when I would have to write like lab reports in science class that my mom would teach. I wasn't the best like at
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writing. Um, but my visuals and like my illustrations and the diagrams that I would draw for it. I just like put my
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all into it and like made them super like epic and even like wrote stories about it too, like very inspired by like
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Stanley. Um, and it was cool that my mom um would like encourage that and was just like, "Yeah, like you found your in
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for this subject." So that's that's what we're trying to do is like make you
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excited to do the experiment cuz then you get to draw a picture about it. >> No. And that's so sick cuz like I
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remember science class and I remember it. Yeah. There was like fill out this whole lab, you know, and talk about all
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this stuff and it was like you were here, you saw it like happen. like why do I need to like can I just
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talk like I'm just better at talking like I'm like let me just talk about it
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you know is that good enough um kind of a thing but I had a friend who was also >> it's interesting the foreshadowing that
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we see right like I'm good at >> exactly I'm good at talking here we are
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have a podcast now but I had a friend who also was he was very much more artistically talented than I was and he
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would yeah he would draw these beautiful pictures of we did um we did like a whole study of like trees and plants and
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stuff and and um and he would like he would just he just knew how to capture that in a really beautiful way. And um
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and I was always super jealous because mine just looked like toddler drawings, right? Like it it it did the job, but it
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wasn't great. And then he would come in and it would just be this beautiful thing and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." And I
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can imagine >> maybe your siblings or other people seeing your your science report and
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being like, >> "Oh my gosh, Noah's making a whole comic book out of this." And like this I just
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hate this whole concept of, you know, science. But that's so sick that your mom like leaned into that and was like,
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"Yeah, like this is fantastic." You know, cuz it's the fusing of those
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passions of being of encouraging you to want to learn, right? But also recognizing that like your talents lie
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in the artwork aspect. So like how how can we blend the two? >> Yeah. And like you said, like with
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especially with homeschooling, like when you have the structure in place, like my
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mom and I think your mom was a teacher too, right? >> Yeah. My mom had the structure. she knew
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what we needed to get done, you know, but when you're just homeschooling and
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it's like a very much more one-on-one kind of learning, you can get that stuff
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done fairly quickly and like get the essentials done and then you have so much more room to play, which is
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definitely like a mentality that I've adopted. It's like let's get the
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responsibilities done and have like the right boundaries and then we have much more freedom and
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uh can make it fun and like indulge those passions. >> Yeah. Were you a good public speaker
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though? I want like like did when you were talking about like me being a good artist in class like that was like that
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was all I really had going for me. But like public speaking I was so bad one time my buddy um we were in class
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together like in our co-op class and my buddy um who we would just like joke around with. He was my skateboard buddy.
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Uh my mom told him cuz I kept on saying um and I probably will say um like a million times on this podcast, but I
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said it so many times doing a report that she had my buddy run up and like give me like a punch on the arm every
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time I said um and it was just like so he kept he got like a good workout in that day. So public speaking was not my
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like forte, but I'm curious if it was for you. >> My mom put me in public speaking oh man
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I want to say maybe junior high so around like seventh eighth grade. um kind of a deal. And uh I hated it cuz I
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was a very shy kid originally. And even like as a as a very little kid, I mean, you can ask anybody at my church, a lot
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of my friends, like I was just hide behind my mom, you know, I was good around people I knew and I was outgoing
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and things, but when it when it came to just like strangers, I hated it. When it
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came to getting in front of an audience, I hated it. Um, but I was really passionate about music and then so she
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put me in some public speaking classes because like even music recital I just like hated getting in front of people.
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It just made me very nervous. And um, so I did that and I did theater and those two things I think helped me kind of
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create I was telling somebody about this the other day actually of like it's like
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a persona that is myself but it's not I sometimes feel like it's not the true
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me. It's this alternative version of me that I can I can kind of slip this character on and he this Jacob is
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outgoing and he can do these things and he can say these things and he'd stand
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in front of an audience of, you know, however many people and he's not scared
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and he can just speak his piece and be and be good. Um, but the internal me is like freaking freaking out, right? I'm
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freaking the [ __ ] out inside. I'm like about to [ __ ] my pants. Yeah. And so I
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think that helped. And then Yeah. And then doing public speaking obviously was like good in the sense of like
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>> I mean it teaches you how to structure it, right? Yeah. Exactly. the technical
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side. It teaches you how to structure it. It teaches you how to uh I really loved uh uh I'm trying to remember what
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it's called, but it's like narrative speeches. So, we would do monologues
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from from things. So, I loved Mark Twain was like I I love Mark Twain. I love his
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writing. I think it's just so clever. Um and I did this entire monologue that was
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about it was some short story he wrote about this guy who sells uh he sells like pork or something and it's just
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Mark Twain has a way of think, you know, words get twisted or or they have different meanings, right? And so
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there's miscommunication and and something happens. If you've ever read,
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you know, Huckleberry Finn, Tom Tom Sawyer, you you know, these hy jinks happen in all of his stories. And that
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was kind of the same in this in this little story. And um so anyway, I loved doing that kind of a thing because I
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didn't have to write it, but then it just kind of fell into doing more impromptu stuff. And then people would
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see that and they'd be like, "Oh, you should host this thing." And like in
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college I did improv and you know all these different things kind of led to >> oh like Jacob can do it like just give
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it to him. He did good at this one thing like just hand it to him kind of a thing. And I was like okay. So
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internally I'm going I'm not this person who >> goes right and then it's a
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responsibility. >> I'm not this person who can do this thing. And so I don't think it was until
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I was oh man in my like uh 20 I don't know maybe 22 something like that where
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I finally was like you know what I think I'm a public speaker. Like I think that's just a part of who I am.
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>> What is it? Uneasy is the head that wears the crown. Um yeah, >> but that like what you say tracks with
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what I I think most creatives feel that way in some respect, you know, like um like I I mean I' I've recently heard the
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the concept of like act as if. So it's like if you don't know what you should
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be doing or if you're like I'm just a lazy person. or if you have like these
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negative internal monologues that going on or dialogues, um just tell yourself like act as if like act as if I was a
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responsible on time person. What would that person do? And let me pretend that I'm that person. Then eventually you
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become that person kind of like you with your like act as if I'm like a social
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butterfly that loves to like go around talking to people. And I think a lot of artists or creatives are very like
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introspective. Like you have to be to be in touch with your emotions and feelings
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and have something to put out into the world. And I think kind of like I I felt like teaching uh cuz I'm a teacher for
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Yeah. I don't know if we said that yet on the podcast, but I feel like that is
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a little bit like doing a performance. Um, and uh, like I teach kindergarten, so it's like you're putting on a full-on
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show every single day. It feels like very parallel to like how SNL like I watched the SNL doc and I was like I was
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like that's what it's like to teach. Um, but it's like the second like class is
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over and all the kids are gone, I like I can breathe and then I talk a lot more softly and like I not that I don't not
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that I'm like screaming in class, but you just have to enunciate and you have
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to be loud like a little bit louder to uh command the room, you know? Um, and then in general in my regular life, like
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when I'm not like teacher Noah, um, I'm a lot more like casual and probably like
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pensive. Like I I kind of I I I go back to like my artist brain where I'm like
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just an observer and I just like watch things happen and people watch and stuff like that.
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>> I think that's really common with a lot of people. The like the like
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I you brought up SNL like I love SNL and I think it When you when you talk to people who have met SNL cast people,
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they're like they're always, you know, they're super nice, they're super kind,
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but they're like less animated than I thought they would be. And I'm like
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because they're putting something on >> like Fred Armison, he seems like the
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quietest little sweetheart and like he does these outrageous characters and you're just like, where did that come
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from? >> Exactly. And so I think to your point of like you put it on, you turn it on, you
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flip the switch, whatever it looks like for you, like you you do the thing and then it and then and then you turn it
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off, you know, and um and that's okay. Like and it's the re I think I view that
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as like the recharging session, right? Where you're like, okay, I don't have to
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be over the top. >> You can't be that all the time. >> Exactly. And yeah, so everyone needs
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their kind of their recharge, but and I think it's not necessarily inauthentic
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either. It's just a different facet of you, you know, >> like I don't think I'm a totally
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different person or like I'm lying to my students because of who I am. It's just
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like >> like how we were talking about earlier like I don't curse in front of the kids
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but I do with my friends and it's not like either one is the truer version of
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me. It's just what the situation calls for and can adapt a little bit. >> I'm totally with you. I think we kind of
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and some people I think would sometimes call it code switching but like you but I like the way you put it of like it's
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registering what this the situation and what it calls for and fulfilling that need or that responsibility for that
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that time and I think that's that's really important. Do you feel like that
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was something that you learned later in life or do you think that that was like building in your homeschool experience
00:20:03
because you I mean you talked about you said you were really shy but now like you're a school teacher you got to you
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got to get up in front and I I know that kindergarteners are sometimes a little easier to get up in front of than like a
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a sea of you know adults but um or at least in my opinion they are but >> but was that like
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>> sometimes they give you those dead scare the dead stairs and you're just like oh
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god >> they also Kids tend to also be able to read when you when you're full of [ __ ] They
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just know like >> Yeah, that that's what I like about kindergarten um is that like they their
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their [ __ ] meter is like on point. Like they don't necessarily know how to
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communicate as well, but they know when you're when you're trying to like
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pulling over on them and they're like, I don't know what's going on here, but
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like this isn't you're not being straight right now. Um, I so I don't
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know if I was ever a shy kid because I I definitely was such a ham growing up and
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I remember somebody called me because like later on in my career I wanted to be a storyboard artist and that's where
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you get to like literally call the shots and even as a teacher it's like you're
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calling the shots in the entire classroom and like setting the tone. Um, I was like a quiet extrovert I guess
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maybe like not that I couldn't be loud but >> um I just always liked people like I
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liked and so to answer your question of like did I it was the question was did I
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learn >> Yeah. Do you feel like you you kind of learned that skill when you were younger
00:21:30
where you were like, "Okay, I know like I can turn it on and off." Or do you
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felt do you feel like that was something you learned later? Cuz you mentioned that you were like, "Public speaking
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terrified me like I didn't want to do that." But we obviously I think both of
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us were more when it came to people we felt comfortable with, we're both out
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there. Like I was such a people pleaser and that like kind of because I think of
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homeschooling a little bit too. um because you have one teacher to gain the approval of uh as opposed to like having
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a plethora where you can maybe be like I don't get along with this teacher but
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this other teacher likes me so I don't need to necessarily change who I am as
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much. >> Um for me it was like I have my one main teacher and I need to um like assimilate
00:22:17
to that standard I guess. Um, and then I mean there was yeah, not to get like too far into the
00:22:27
weeds and stuff, but I think um the downside or the dark side of like homeschooling is that you are kind of in
00:22:37
a bubble. And I think sometimes the the parents that do that like to have that control, you know.
00:22:43
>> Um, >> and so there was definitely some uh like dysfunction going on. Um, and so I
00:22:50
developed it like I I remember I was talking to someone about this and she was saying that she um went the opposite
00:22:59
route like she was like I'm just not going to be able to please everyone so I'm just going to do my own thing and
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like and I was like that sounds so nice and healthy. I did the opposite where I was like I'm going to internalize this
00:23:08
and make it my problem and try to like please everyone. So, at an early age, I did learn like, oh, I can change my
00:23:16
behavior and like kind of chameleon around to fit the setting or try to win people over and people please. Um, which
00:23:26
even that like there's a time and a place for it. Like for for example, like
00:23:31
I've cuz I think you have to learn to accept the things about you whe like whatever you grew up with one way or the
00:23:38
other, >> right? And so people pleasing doesn't work really well if I'm like trying to
00:23:43
make friends because that's supposed to be like a mutual back and forth and like
00:23:46
you should show up as authentic as possible um to meet like-minded people. Um >> but you you they don't know that you're
00:23:54
like-minded if you're pretending to be like them, you know, right? >> Like they'll just think that you are.
00:23:59
Um, but with students, uh, me being able to, um, connect and meet people at where
00:24:07
they're at, um, that is a really useful tool because on like the first day when I like I've
00:24:14
taught like for an entire year, a whole class, or I've taught for like a just a
00:24:18
short like semester where you only have like 10 weeks with a student, and if it's like an after school class, you
00:24:23
literally only have like 10 classes with them. So, you don't have a long time to
00:24:26
like win them over. And so my ability to like instantly make other people feel comfortable and safe and heard works
00:24:35
really well in a classroom setting where especially with like younger kids that are shy or or scared maybe to be in a
00:24:42
place that they've never been before. Um so I've just learned like when that was
00:24:46
appropriate and when that was not a healthy choice, but I definitely picked it up I think early on.
00:24:52
>> Yeah, that's so interesting. I've never heard anyone kind of free frame the
00:24:56
peopleleasing chameleon aspect of of a person as like as like so strong of a skill. I think we talk about it always
00:25:04
as more of a negative, right? And something to kind of be overcome, but I like the way you frame it of like
00:25:10
there's a time and a place for it. It's just knowing when to activate it. I
00:25:14
think that's that's a way better reframe therapy. >> Yeah. >> No. Well, my therapist, like my old
00:25:20
therapist, she said, she was like, it did serve a point and it did help you at some point, the peopleleasing stuff. So,
00:25:26
she was like, >> you have to acknowledge that that's probably why it's hard to let go of some
00:25:32
of those qualities that you don't like about yourself is because there's a part
00:25:36
of your brain where it's like, this worked like peopleleasing absolutely worked for me for a good portion of my
00:25:41
life. When you know, you're in survival motor, fight or flight kind of thing.
00:25:44
But >> yeah, >> there's also like an artistic view of it where it's like uh I heard this Pixar
00:25:49
storyboard artist talk about character arcs and saying um like he used the example of Toy Story that people's best
00:25:56
qualities are usually like parallels to their worst qualities. So for like Woody, he's such a caring like from Toy
00:26:05
Story like he's such a caring he's he keeps things organized. He keeps everyone scheduled and he keeps track of
00:26:10
where everyone is and everything. But on the downside of that, he's also very
00:26:14
controlling and doesn't want anybody to shake his like hierarchy of like how he
00:26:19
thinks everything should go. >> And I was like, "Oh, so your bad qualities are usually your good
00:26:24
qualities just in reflection." >> That's a great way to put it. I Yeah.
00:26:29
Toy Story is like my favorite uh Pixar movie. Um Oh, really? >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, me too.
00:26:34
>> I used to Buzz Lightyear was like my favorite growing up. So, um Yeah. But
00:26:39
Okay. >> The sarcasm in that I think impacted me forever. Like I think that's where I
00:26:44
>> like my sense of humor came from. Like if you watch it now, I'm like, "Oh my
00:26:47
god, they're just so sarcastic to everyone." >> Exactly. The eye rolls too. The way that
00:26:52
they Yeah, they perfectly encapsulate like those characters and the way they animated. I mean, Pixar was that Toy
00:27:00
Story to me is like peak Pixar, which some people disagree with, but I think it's just that is like
00:27:06
pinnacle. You can't top it. So >> yeah, their first I would say their first few were like definitely I mean
00:27:13
they were new so it was nothing not a lot to compare it to but like even like Monsters Inc. like the first one I think
00:27:18
that was their third movie that they made. >> So funny like um uh what's his name? Oh
00:27:25
my god. Who does the voice of Mike Wazowski? >> Oh Bill uh Billy Crystal. >> Billy Crystal. Yeah. Like his the way he
00:27:31
delivers those lines in that and everything and just his outlandish character is my favorite. I'm just
00:27:36
always cracks me up. >> Oh my god. Such great movies. I mean, Disney blew it out of the ballpark for
00:27:42
so long. Has blown it out of the ballpark for so long. But speaking of Disney, I mean, I want to kind of go I
00:27:49
want to go back a little bit to you finishing high school and college and early career stuff because as an artist,
00:27:55
I mean, I know that you went on to kind of work in in animation and things like that, but let's let's fill in the gap a
00:28:01
little bit for people of like how did you get there and then why are you now a teacher? Well, like we had talked about
00:28:08
like off the podcast, we my mom had known that we were going to need to do like standardized test standardized
00:28:14
tests or at least the SATs. And so she would do that with us every summer. Like that would be our end of the school
00:28:19
year. Like it wasn't officially summer until we had completed our like three
00:28:22
days of standardized tests. >> Um so I mean I was such a I don't know. I was like this is a cool
00:28:32
new adventure. like I like a challenge, you know, like this is a whole new room of people that I could try to win over.
00:28:37
Didn't happen. Like in high school, the high school that I went to was like,
00:28:41
>> oh, so bleak. I was like, thank god I didn't like go to school here cuz this
00:28:46
looks like it would have been terrible. Um, and nobody wanted to be there. Everyone was like very like disheartened
00:28:52
and stuff. So, I was like, "Oh, okay. This is a a vibe." Uh, the SATs were
00:28:58
fine. I did. I remember for whatever reason like I got an SAT score. I honestly don't even remember what I got
00:29:05
cuz it wasn't like something to brag about, but they also gave me a letter grade and it was like equivalent
00:29:10
>> and my letter grade equivalent was like a B. So, I was like, "All right, like
00:29:14
I'm okay with that." Um, especially because I was like, "This is I mean, I'm
00:29:19
so salty towards the SATs and standardized tests because I feel like it's not the best way to assess a kid's
00:29:24
like skills or potential or intelligence." >> It's really not. Well, like even for
00:29:30
you, you know, like conversation wise like that and like people skills like that's such an important quality like
00:29:36
almost I would say more than technical skills like do you have good interpersonal
00:29:41
>> right? Well, you also think about the SAT is all logic based. It really is not
00:29:46
uh a knowledge based test. So you can know nothing about anything on there and just know basic log basic logic and
00:29:54
basic math and science skills and be able to like get away with it. Um, so that was something where like my my
00:30:01
parents kind of pushed me to do I I mean SATs was very standard, but like so I did a lot of SAT prep and then the cool
00:30:08
thing with the SATs is you could take it multiple times and then you can combine
00:30:12
your scores to get so I could focus in on say, hey, I just want to focus on the math section and then I'm going to focus
00:30:17
on the English section or anything like that. So they were willing to like go take it a couple times, feel it out,
00:30:23
really, you know, just shoot for higher in a section every single time. I also took the ACT, which that one is
00:30:30
knowledge based, and holy smokes, that was way harder because it was just like I I had got it. I couldn't Exactly.
00:30:39
Exactly. Because like the SAT there's a there's a strategy behind even being
00:30:42
like if you don't know the answer, just pick C and about 50% of the time you're
00:30:47
going to be right. >> Or even like process of elimination, like I know it's not this one, so that
00:30:51
you know, it's like okay, that's not even about the question then. >> Exactly. So yeah. So ACT was way
00:30:58
different. And then the ACT also has an entire like you do a a written essay at the end of it. And I just
00:31:04
>> I mean I can do it, but like to put a timer on it like anybody gets nervous
00:31:10
doing that. So it was not really >> my cup of tea. But because I wanted to
00:31:14
go to school in some areas that the ACT was more accepted, I was like I'm just
00:31:18
going to cover all the bases. So um so there was that. But I'm wondering for
00:31:23
you too, like >> how was the college application process? Because obviously you had a you had a
00:31:28
mom who who was a teacher. It sounds like both your parents were college educated. So like I'm sure they kind of
00:31:34
understood somewhat of the process, but like my parents, they were also college educated and so they understood some of
00:31:41
the process, but they had also had high school like guidance counselors who helped them walk through the process of
00:31:46
the application thing. In the home school world, a lot of times we don't get that. So, what what did that look
00:31:51
like for you? >> Yeah, honestly, like I don't like it was so long ago. It it just was like a
00:31:57
frantic cuz I was like kind of plateauing my junior. Like I make it it sounds like the way I think I'm telling
00:32:04
it it sounds like I was like surpassing and I was just advancing and everything.
00:32:08
I was doing like nothing but art and because I was just like I'm so over math. like I got, you know, senioritis,
00:32:16
like even though I was in junior, like I was just >> over it and it was just getting so
00:32:20
complicated and I was like, there's no way I'm ever going to need to use these
00:32:22
equations in real life. Um, >> like even though we I don't know if we had smartphones then, but um but uh
00:32:30
yeah, anyway, the the college application process was a frenzy of just trying to get in on time and I think I
00:32:38
would have been more stressed about it and it would have made more of an impact if I had more time and if I was like
00:32:42
building up to it. But it was literally like one day my mom came in my room and I had definitely been like sleeping in
00:32:50
that day and not was was not up doing my work like I was supposed to be doing cuz
00:32:54
like we mentioned like at that point in high school like you're kind of just
00:32:57
doing it on your own and you ask your parents when you need to but >> um yeah so she was just like hey so you
00:33:04
seem like you're thriving like this uh why don't you study take the SATs and
00:33:09
see if you can go to art school next year instead of doing another year whatever you want to call this because
00:33:15
this doesn't seem like it's benefiting you in any way. Um, and like you know
00:33:19
that you want to go to art. So, it was like a few months and I like applied to college and took the SATs and like did
00:33:25
all that stuff really quickly. Um, I remember writing a resume and or like what your not your resume, what do you
00:33:33
write or I don't even think you have to write it but in home school you have to
00:33:36
write it like your transcript I think maybe. >> Oh yeah, probably to get into high
00:33:41
school transcript. >> Obviously most of it's the classes you take, right? And then and then usually
00:33:46
with college applications, you've got a little something of like, hey, this is
00:33:48
who I am and this is what I want to do and this is why I want to study that and >> a bunch of [ __ ] that no one probably
00:33:54
ever reads. But >> ex it definitely I mean yeah like I remember doing that but the main thing
00:34:01
for like the college application process that I was that is like locked in my memory was you can either do a BA or a
00:34:09
BFA which is like bachelor of arts or bachelor of fine arts which has nothing to do with like fine arts I think how
00:34:15
most people would think of it but it just means that like instead of taking like 5050
00:34:21
uh gened classes in like my major classes I could do like 75 25 major classes in gen eds. So it's like way
00:34:28
more enticing if you want like for me I was like I want to do all the art classes I can
00:34:32
>> right >> and to do that you have to present your portfolio to the faculty or like the uh
00:34:38
the head of the your major. Um and I remember I got in um and like they were like yep you're at this level with your
00:34:48
art that it looks like you're not just trying to like pick an easy major like
00:34:51
you're actually serious about being an artist. uh we want you to be in our BFA
00:34:55
program. And one of the perks of that was like when I was in college, they told us that we didn't have to do any
00:35:01
math classes. And we literally all cheered in the room. We were just like, "Oh, thank God." Like no math classes at
00:35:07
all. >> Yeah. >> So, at pretty early on, I was like I was like, "Okay, I feel like I'm like I can
00:35:12
keep up with these guys." And also, it's nice to not have to be done with math
00:35:16
forever. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I took like a remedial >> and then you have to do taxes and like
00:35:20
budgets and stuff and you're like, "Ah, >> yeah." Yeah. you're like, "Maybe I
00:35:23
should have taken a math class." I took like a remedial math class in college
00:35:26
and it was like I don't I don't even know. It just it was nothing. It was
00:35:31
like it was like this symbol equals this number and then like you know if Dana has six of this symbol
00:35:38
>> how much is that? It's like okay whatever. I took the easiest classes I
00:35:42
possibly could to get my major which hey I mean >> to do honestly like why not?
00:35:49
>> Yeah. >> Why make it harder? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, unless you're trying to I don't know. I
00:35:53
have a little bit and I think maybe homeschooling was did this for me, but a little bit of disdain for like how
00:35:59
schools and I and I teach at a school, but like and this school is pretty good with um how they go about like teaching
00:36:08
students like actual real life skills that will help them. But yeah, I mean like college in general is and I loved
00:36:17
college. It was so much fun. But for how much like you you you put this kid who's
00:36:23
like 17 18 years old and you have them sign up to be in so much debt if you don't get enough loans which I mean I
00:36:32
didn't get that many cuz I didn't do that great on the SATs. Um which I'm
00:36:37
also spiteful about because uh I was like my sister who's like an English major of course she crushed the writing
00:36:44
portion of the SAT and like her brain is just wired for that. I was like there was nothing about here on art like
00:36:50
nothing in this SAT about art. I was like put that in there and I'll like I'll draw perspective or human anatomy
00:36:55
or whatever but I was like nope none of that. So >> I was just a little bit salty
00:37:00
>> towards and then even like the college classes like you were saying like it was
00:37:03
a nothing class or I took the easiest classes just to get my degree. I'm like
00:37:08
why am I paying so much money to take these classes? Like I took an oceanography class like just cuz I
00:37:15
needed a science class to check off the list and I was like why are we >> I'm spending my money on this like what
00:37:22
is this actually benefit and yeah >> no and I I feel you because I think there's a lot of people who walk away
00:37:27
and they they don't either enter immediately into the job that they were kind of like wanting or they get down
00:37:34
the line and they're just like I spent all this money and all this time and all
00:37:37
this energy on things that I don't see as valuable or things that I could have
00:37:42
learned for way cheaper, you know, and so I do think that the education system is going to see an overhaul here
00:37:50
potentially in the very near future. And I think I think we're going to see a
00:37:53
push back to a lot of the trades. This is my predictions. Um, but I mean, you know, we we got sold this thing for so
00:38:01
long that it's like college is the only way to get a job that pays a lot. Well,
00:38:05
there's there's a lot of other options out there as well. Um I don't think
00:38:09
always that just like >> and it would be one thing if it worked. >> Yeah. And for people come out of college
00:38:14
with a bachelor's degree and they have to get a minimum >> like level minimum pay job. Exactly.
00:38:19
It's like well then why >> and there are certain people we want our doctors educated. I want my do I want my
00:38:24
doctor to know what he's doing. Absolutely. You know I want my financial adviser to know what they're doing and
00:38:28
know how to do uh math and and all those things. But there there are other things
00:38:33
that I think I think we can just simplify certain things and and get people to where they need to go
00:38:38
career-wise like in different ways for a lot less money and a lot quicker. Part of the the thing with college too is is
00:38:45
the >> there's a process in those four years I did three years of like you also grow a
00:38:51
lot as a person and so it does give you as a homeschool kid who even though I had friends and I had community there
00:38:58
was a lot of lessons in there of becoming an adult. I walked out of there a lot more mature than I think if I had
00:39:04
just gone and gotten a job right out of high school. And so to your point of like I think there's
00:39:11
it can be frustrating and I I have my own gripes with the college I went to. Uh but I also like I have to look at it
00:39:17
and sometimes be like okay but I came out so much better of like so much more mature as a human being than if I had
00:39:23
just like >> the connections you make too. >> Yes. That too. >> Yeah.
00:39:27
>> So what did you go to college to study? because you obviously did art, but like
00:39:30
was there a focus on something specific? >> Yeah, it was uh the major was called
00:39:35
animation and illustration. Um cuz it was still like it was a school of the arts and education, but it was um that
00:39:42
there's so many different subcategories for arts, right? You know, like you could do digital, you could do graphic
00:39:47
design, you could do painting like or sculpting, whatever. Um, so mine was uh animation illustration, which I think
00:39:55
now at this point, if I was to go back, it's separated now, which is great. They
00:40:00
they've grown it enough that it's separate. Um but yeah that basically means I did like 3D animation, 2D
00:40:06
animation, like we did video like film making, we did painting, we did um like ink and watercolors, we did water uh oil
00:40:17
painting, sculpting like 3D like woodworking stuff. We did like every kind of art. Um, which was a little bit
00:40:25
frustrating when I was a young naive college student and I was like, I know what I need to what I want to do and I
00:40:30
only want to do that one thing and like not waste my time with any of these other classes. But looking back, I'm
00:40:36
glad that I did have to do all those other art classes, right? Because uh >> your path kind of goes in a, you know,
00:40:44
in a weird scribbly like loop-de-loop kind of way. So, you never know what you're what skill you're going to need.
00:40:49
Well, I think too, and I'm not I'm not an artist in the pick up a paintbrush
00:40:54
kind of a way, but but from from what I've gathered from my friends who are is
00:41:00
like, you know, maybe they don't work with clay. Maybe they're like acrylics and
00:41:05
oil is my like that is that is my bread and butter. That is what I want to do every single day. But they're like, "But
00:41:10
I'm so thankful I know how to work with clay because it can give you, we talked
00:41:14
about earlier the kind of like the the the different perspectives, right, of like Stan Lee looking at a science
00:41:20
magazine and seeing something." Um, and I think that that is like a really big
00:41:26
part of like the creative process is the ability to kind of we get stuck on things. Like I I was telling someone
00:41:32
recently, I was like when I edit my podcasts, like that is like I can get stuck and I get in the loop of like I
00:41:38
can't figure this thing out. And I'm sure that art is can have its moments
00:41:42
like that too where it's like I can't get this hand right or I can't get this,
00:41:45
you know, whatever right, you know, and you're like this is the sixth time like
00:41:49
this is insane. And what I found is like when I can go and and replace that with
00:41:53
a different medium with something else creative, it's like my brain will continue to work on the problem in the
00:41:59
back of back of itself, but I'm I'm doing something else. So for me, it's
00:42:03
like Lego or or you know, or even just sketching. I might, you know, just doodle and just see what can come out.
00:42:10
Um, but usually it will solve that problem. But I'm so thankful that I'm
00:42:14
like, okay, well, I have some of these other knowledge bases. So I'm wondering
00:42:17
is art at all similar in the sense of like you know if you are illustrating something and then you're like okay I'm
00:42:23
like really stuck on this like maybe picking up a piece of clay is like actually the solution to to figuring out
00:42:28
that problem. >> Yeah. I mean 100%. And I feel like with art it's like if you're working on a new
00:42:33
project square one like the first day is like that blank canvas where you're like
00:42:38
I have no idea how I'm going to solve this problem. So you're already like
00:42:41
slapped in the face with what am I even doing and like do I even know what I'm
00:42:45
doing? Um, and I've heard so many like legendary artists talk about it like that, too, where it's like because
00:42:52
there's a part of us that likes to create something that's new and unique
00:42:55
as an artist. Like you want to create something and if you're just copying what you did in the past, you're not
00:43:01
creating in like its fullest form maybe is a way that you can say that. that um I would e I've told students too uh that
00:43:12
it's so important as an artist to have like a full life that has hobbies outside of art. So definitely like if
00:43:19
I'm feeling stuck and I still want to work on a project, I'll switch mediums,
00:43:23
you know, I'll do it digitally or I'll use watercolors or ink or crayons even.
00:43:27
Um but uh like on a daily basis I try to make sure I fill my life with lots of other things like I I box or I roller
00:43:36
skate or play guitar. Um just to like you said like give your brain a chance to think a little bit differently and
00:43:46
like pause. But that's what's great about our brains is that they work on it
00:43:49
in in the background and then all of a sudden you'll have that great idea in
00:43:52
the shower or something. Um so >> yeah. Exactly. and then you come stumbling out and you're like, I got to
00:43:57
do it right now because it's like forefront of mind. You're like, you're
00:44:00
running back to that thing to be like, I know the solution now. And that's like
00:44:04
that's the greatest feeling in the world, I think, is like when you've just
00:44:07
like >> you like unlock it and you're like, why didn't I do this earlier? Why didn't I
00:44:12
start that process earlier? >> Well, you know, there's a a great book called Creativity Inc. like inc like
00:44:18
Incorporated um by Ed Catmol who is like the technical engineer that made Pixar software
00:44:25
>> um and like the first 3D software >> and he talks a lot about in that book
00:44:30
the mental mindsets or like the mental metaphors that um the directors will have because like directing a movie it
00:44:39
goes through crazy changes like I heard once that like up used to be about two like royal princes that lived in
00:44:46
castles, floating castles in the sky, and then it morphed into the movie that we know it now with like an old man and
00:44:51
like the little uh boy scout kid. Um, so it's like to go into that is really
00:44:57
scary because you're throwing away ideas as fast as they're coming to you, you
00:45:02
know, and you don't know like you have to believe in your head that the and this is like the metaphor that I like is
00:45:11
kind of like Michelangelo said about sculpting. It's like it's in there. the
00:45:15
answer, the perfect story where everything works together or the solution or the pro like whatever is
00:45:20
there. You just need to kind of like move things around and take things away until you find it. Um, which is a
00:45:27
metaphor that I talked to artists like especially during the pandemic uh when there was so much uncertainty. Um, we
00:45:35
were like we're kind of used to this uncertainty like this is our bread and butter like to go into a project not
00:45:40
knowing where it's going to lead us or like what's going to happen, right? So,
00:45:45
we kind of took our creative approach and put that into our real life application. We're just like, "All
00:45:51
right, we're going to start to try out a few things. Maybe I'll try try like
00:45:54
roller skating and maybe I'll break my collarbone doing it, but like it's all
00:45:58
part of like the creative process and like trial and and error." Um, so, but
00:46:03
yeah, it's definitely it's not a for sure thing in that there's like a right
00:46:10
or a wrong. It's it's more like intrinsic. It's like, does this feel
00:46:13
right? Does this feel wrong? And >> yeah, >> which could be good when it like when
00:46:17
you get that you're like, yes, this is perfect. This is what I wanted it to be,
00:46:21
but it's also so internally frustrating when you know that it's not quite what
00:46:26
it could be. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think something I've been exploring a lot recently is the
00:46:34
like the concept of like what is art and like what does like what what constitutes art, right? Because so like
00:46:42
I worked in um I worked in kind of like the web 3 crypto arena for a while and you know I knew a lot of guys who made
00:46:49
NFTts and some would argue that's art and other people would argue that's not
00:46:53
art right and so that was like really an interesting arena to kind of sit in or like it's tied to a physical piece of
00:47:00
art. Okay, how does that work? And like all these different things and how is you know, but then we would talk about
00:47:05
performance and then I started to recognize and me for like what I do. I'm like I view the way that I sculpt
00:47:12
conversations for my clients and take things out and restructure. I'm like that is kind of its own work of art in a
00:47:18
way. It's different than a trai what most people would consider traditional art. And I was like okay. So I think to
00:47:25
some degree everybody has this artistic side to them but it's figuring out what
00:47:29
that looks like. Look, my dad works in spreadsheets all day. It looks like mumbo jumbo to me. It I makes no sense
00:47:36
to me. However, to like him, he knows how to manipulate things and make things just operate and look beautiful to like
00:47:42
him and his clients and whatever. And so, it's one of those things where I have recognized that I'm like, he is
00:47:48
making art. It's just different than the art that like I make or that some of my
00:47:53
painter or sculptor friends make. Maybe the best way I could define like what art is uh is self-expression. Um so
00:48:03
that could be through dance or music or spreadsheets, you know? Um and you you're expressing like how you think and
00:48:11
like that's what intrigues me the most about art and like art therapy is just
00:48:16
like that's where you're getting right down to the nitty like the the core of
00:48:20
what art essentially is in my mind at least because everybody's got their own
00:48:24
definition of what art is. But uh any form of like self-expression I think could be considered like how you like I
00:48:31
remember I was watching this TV show um and there was like a guy in it who could
00:48:36
like look in look at your room or how you decorated your apartment and tell so much about who you are as a person and I
00:48:43
was like that's so cool. I was like that's art in a way because it's
00:48:46
self-expression. Um, so yeah, I I keep it pretty loose, which is also why I'm not like so worried
00:48:53
about the whole AI thing. Um, not to get into that, but I'm like, yes, it'll 100%
00:49:01
take jobs. Like, it already has and is, but >> uh, as far as like the purity of art, I
00:49:09
don't think it'll ever be able to touch that because it's not going to do any
00:49:12
kind of self-expression. It's it's a robot. it doesn't have that >> need to express itself in a creative way
00:49:20
like humans do. And so I feel like as unfortunate as it is that it might change what it looks like on how you
00:49:26
make money off of art, but I don't think making money is honestly like I say this all the time.
00:49:32
I'm like if you're in it to make money, like pick a different field, please.
00:49:37
Because art is like you can either make a lot of money or you can make nothing and it's really hard to there's no
00:49:42
guarantees. Um, but I believe that artists make art because that's like they don't have a choice. Like they kind
00:49:52
of have to make it. >> And like I would I would do like and I feel lucky that I get to do stuff for
00:50:00
work and creatively that I would do even if I wasn't doing it for money. >> Yeah. Yeah, I wanted to kind of talk on
00:50:06
you brought up like art therapy and I know like >> you know after college you went into
00:50:10
like the animation space, worked for DreamWorks and things like that, but then started to
00:50:14
>> kind of feel that like >> pull out of that and I you and I talked
00:50:19
before about art therapy kind of being that that thing that kind of pulled you out of that and realizing like I think I
00:50:24
want to do something different, but could you talk about like what art therapy is and like what it looks like
00:50:29
for for anyone who's not familiar? >> Yeah. Um I mean like so therapy in
00:50:33
general is just um getting your thoughts out and like processing your thoughts um
00:50:40
and like your feelings. Um, usually there's like the traditional is like talk therapy, which for anybody that's I
00:50:47
don't know got a old school I would say maybe view of therapy that it's like
00:50:52
only for crazy people really all it is is just like talking like you don't almost don't even like the other person
00:50:58
helps guide your conversation and what you say by asking you questions and making observations and you know
00:51:04
commenting. Um what do they say like therapy is like making observations and asking question. um questions. But uh so
00:51:13
with art therapy, it's kind of the same thing, but instead of talking, you're
00:51:19
doodling or coloring or painting or or creating or even music, you know? Um which I find so fascinating. Like I was
00:51:26
always intrigued by what makes people tick. That was kind of like why I wanted to do storyboards for animation was so
00:51:36
much of making storyboards is trying to express the characters emotions through framing and like placement of the
00:51:43
characters and telling the emotional arc of the story. Um, which is like that is what storyboarding
00:51:50
is. It's it's trying to visually interpret what's going on internally to
00:51:55
the characters. Um, but I realized that a lot of that time spent being a storeboard artist is like in isolation
00:52:04
by yourself in a room drawing a lot. Um, and uh, I had started like I'd always
00:52:12
taught like I had taught art classes when I was in high school at one of our homeschool co-ops. Um, and then had
00:52:17
taught like karate classes uh, during college. Um and uh and was always felt very like at
00:52:26
home in that setting like as a teacher. Um so I was teaching a little bit on the
00:52:32
side to make some extra money while I was working in the animation industry and I started going to different like UCLA
00:52:40
art therapy talks because I'd been invited to one by one of my colleagues about this animated short that some this
00:52:46
artist had made about depression and how it ran in her family. And uh I got on their mailing list and then I started
00:52:52
going to more and more of them and it was like really interesting because UCLA paired the art, the visual art and
00:52:58
therapy like very closely which makes sense because the arts have been a part of culture for forever like literally
00:53:05
before most anything else, >> right? >> Like creative expression has always been
00:53:08
a part of human humanity. >> Exactly. Yeah. And I went to one like the big shift I remember was I went to
00:53:15
see Inside Out, a screening of Inside Out and the director Pete Doctor was there and he was doing a panel with this
00:53:21
woman who ran their STAR clinic which star is an acronym for stress, trauma and resilience um for kids. Um and she
00:53:28
talked about how they used that movie to help kids explain and talk about their feelings a little bit uh more easily.
00:53:38
Um, and after I heard as I'm like listening to them and I'm like, "Oh my
00:53:43
god, Pete Doctor is like my idol. He is like the one like everything that he does, I just love." Um, that shifted and
00:53:51
I was like, I still love him, but I was like, what she's doing, I was like, and
00:53:55
working with kids and using art and all the things that I learned in animation on how to frame and how to like
00:54:00
interpret art in different ways to like express emotion and composition and color theory and all that stuff. I was
00:54:06
like, she's using that but to like connect with people. And I was like, that's what I was missing. I was like, I
00:54:11
was missing the human connection, right? >> And so I went up and talked to her
00:54:15
afterwards and ended up uh volunteering at UCLA's UCLA Star Clinic. Um, and I
00:54:21
would sit in like the waiting room with the kids before they would go see the therapist and I would do art therapy
00:54:27
activities. And some of them were as simple as like uh draw a place that makes you happy or
00:54:34
like um and then you just see the magical fantastical things that the kids draw or um just scribble on a page what
00:54:42
you're feeling right now and you see them pick different colors and do swirls
00:54:46
versus like zigzags and you can kind of pull from that. And we ended up having such
00:54:52
deep like authentic conversations with these kids cuz I would just be like, "Oh, that's interesting. like why did
00:54:57
you pick that color? Like are you feeling this way? Because I had all my knowledge of like how to create a movie
00:55:04
or an animation visually and create that emotion through storyboards. And now I could like read somebody's art almost as
00:55:12
easily as I could read their words that they wrote. >> That's so cool. That's such a unique
00:55:16
skill to like have. And like um yeah, I know that's something like I want to I
00:55:23
want to work on in myself of like my my wife loves art and so she so you know has dragged me to a couple art museums
00:55:30
and like I do enjoy it but like I know that I don't get the full like experience that I could out of it. But
00:55:39
um but it was cool. Late last year we went we were in Boston and we went to the bar art art museum and uh and to
00:55:46
like sit there and just kind of like we just sat and stared at a piece for a while and I I'm forgetting what it is
00:55:51
but like I just I started to notice things that I was like oh I am such a consumer of art where I'm like oh look
00:55:59
at something. I'm like that's beautiful. That's amazing. Oh my gosh someone
00:56:01
created that. Right. But the longer you sit with it, like you're talking about
00:56:04
the like the the colors that were chosen or the way like the the paint stroke was
00:56:08
or or or you know even crayons, right? It's like the way that it's scribbled on
00:56:12
there or whatever. It's like it says so much more about that person. And I >> I still have like no idea what I'm
00:56:19
talking about when it comes to that stuff. But I but I'm I'm hopefully starting to recognize what you're
00:56:23
talking about of like seeing the the emotion side of it that is so much bigger than just like oh my gosh pretty
00:56:30
painting of a lady like you know what I mean? Like it there's so much more that
00:56:34
goes into it than just just that. >> It kind of just keeps on unfolding back
00:56:38
more and more layers. Um but I would say like you could start really simple too.
00:56:43
Like I've done this one time when I was like at a a dinner with some of my friends and they were all different
00:56:49
professions like it was just like a collective of all of us. Um but uh Picasso he had students and he used to
00:56:57
tell his students that if you draw just a circle like just like in one uh motion
00:57:02
or whatever um that has your artistic voice already in it. And obviously like as you get quote like as you develop as
00:57:11
an artist because I don't want to say as you get better as an artist but as you
00:57:14
develop as an artist you get better at expressing what you're feeling onto the
00:57:18
paper so that other people can see it too. Whereas like if you only know how to draw stick figures there's only like
00:57:25
this small box of what like your repertoire that you can draw with. But as you develop as an artist you have all
00:57:31
these other things that you can pull from. So that's how that kind of works.
00:57:35
But even something as simple and Picasso said that it was like you could draw a circle and that says something about
00:57:40
you. And so the activity I did with my friends was like we all um had like an index card or a napkin or whatever and
00:57:46
we all drew a circle and then we stacked them all up and then we tried to guess whose circle was each and it was really
00:57:52
fascinating because everybody drew a different circle even though it was with one prompt. Um and that's kind of art
00:57:59
therapy in a nutshell. just like, oh, you can tell who did what and you, what I love about it, too, is like so much of
00:58:06
it, and I learned this actually in the industry, was that when you're trying to
00:58:10
figure out if things are like right or wrong, it's an internal like feeling that you get in your head like you can
00:58:21
probably and I don't know if you've ever read that book Blink by Malcolm
00:58:24
Gladwell. >> I have not read that one, but I it's on my it's on my to read list. Yeah, I re I
00:58:29
talk about that book all the time just because it's so much in line with art
00:58:32
therapy because it's he talks about how our body notices and like processes information at crazy speeds that we
00:58:40
don't even consciously know and we don't trust it because we can't always define
00:58:46
it or logically explain it. But um being an artist takes a lot of like just observing and like feeling and usually I
00:58:57
feel like if you did that like circle experiment you could be able to tell guess whose circles belong to each but
00:59:02
if you thought about it too long you'd probably think yourself out of it and be
00:59:05
like oh this is probably it. But it's like your gut reaction which is what that book blink is all about too is like
00:59:10
so good because >> well and so many people always say the the thing about the gut reaction right
00:59:14
it's like you know when you when you have to make a big decision for instance
00:59:18
what does the gut say like what is the like if you have a split second to like answer it what does your gut say and
00:59:23
usually that's the right answer. Um, and so that's an interesting observation
00:59:28
with the the circles is like the more you think about it, the more you're going to be second guessing like, h,
00:59:32
maybe this is this guy, this is so and so's, I don't know, you know, but it but
00:59:37
usually right off the rip, you might be like, oh, I know who exactly who did that. That's
00:59:42
>> the first person that popped into your head. Yeah. >> Exactly. Right. It just matches.
00:59:45
>> That's how I picked art therapy, actually. >> Okay. Um, my girlfriend at the time, she
00:59:50
I was torn because I was like, I moved across the country because I'm from the
00:59:53
east coast and I moved to California to intern and like I was like, I did all this stuff. I've been working on this my
00:59:58
entire life and it's all been building up to this and I finally am like doing
01:00:02
it and now I want to throw it away for art therapy which I have no real I mean I got to stop saying that I had
01:00:10
experience. It just wasn't like school experience like training, but I had lots
01:00:15
of like I worked with at risk teens doing art therapy for them too. >> Um, but I just had a passion for it. And
01:00:22
my girlfriend at the time was like just one, two, three. Do you want to do storyboards or do you want to do art
01:00:28
therapy? And I was like, art therapy. And then of course my brain kept on going. I was like, but like I don't
01:00:32
know. And she's like, no, no, no. Like that's what you want to do. you could
01:00:36
figure out the how later, but like you know that this is what you want to do. So why fight it? Um because you're not
01:00:44
going to be you're not going to feel like that fulfillment, the same fulfillment.
01:00:48
>> So then how does that then lead into because I know you mentioned before like
01:00:52
kindergarten teacher. So do you specifically teach just kindergarten art or are you kind of more a universal
01:00:58
teacher? Do you teach other subjects as well? Yeah, that was actually just this year that I was specifically teaching
01:01:04
like in a kindergarten classroom teaching kindergarten. Um I've always like even when I um like the first
01:01:10
church that I went to out here um I worked in like the youth ministry and kindergarten is
01:01:16
>> I think my favorite age cuz they're just such balls of emotions and like raw like
01:01:22
they don't even know how they're like they're just they feel it, they express
01:01:26
it instantly, right? um which I just can relate to. Um yeah, as an artist. Um >> so I like kindergarten a lot. Um and
01:01:36
it's just fun. Like they just love they my students this year, they would just
01:01:41
be happy if we can draw all day. Like they just they had requests daily for me to draw them things and they just loved
01:01:48
coloring. Like that could entertain them better than anything else. Um so it just
01:01:53
is very dear to my heart like kindergarten like mentality. But uh yeah, no, I had taught I've taught some
01:01:59
adult classes uh through like the parks and wreck in the Burbank uh town and taught um middle school age, which is
01:02:07
also kind of fun because then you can get into like intentionally how do you create different emotions with your art,
01:02:13
you know, and tell stories where you don't really do that with kindergarten as much. Um, but uh the switch between
01:02:21
therapy to like teaching like full-time was because I had worked at a sober living transitional home. Um, and I did
01:02:29
some art therapy workshops there for the adults. And I realized a lot of the issues that they were dealing with were
01:02:36
things that ideally could be taught to like kindergarten age or like kids in school. Um, but they were they didn't
01:02:44
learn that stuff because they don't really prioritize like social emotional learning in schools until like more
01:02:50
recently. Um, and mental health stuff. So, uh, I knew I wanted to do art therapy. I didn't know if I wanted to
01:02:57
like open my own practice or if I wanted to just like I don't know go like hop
01:03:02
around to different schools or however I could do it. But I realized I was like working with adults. So, I was like,
01:03:07
"This is great, but I feel like I'm catching it after the damage has already
01:03:13
been done. I'd rather teach them the skills before they get all messed up from it, you know, and like have to
01:03:19
unlearn certain things." Um, and then I, you know, the debate of like opening my
01:03:24
own art therapy practice and like going back to school to get my MFTt versus I don't know, I had talked to some art
01:03:31
therapists that were doing that and they said that it's really hard sometimes
01:03:34
with kids because they don't feel comfortable because it's like a new space and it seems very formal and
01:03:40
organized. And I was doing some after school classes at schools and I realized I was
01:03:47
like the teachers are the ones that are there with the kids like 8 hours a day or 7 hours a day. Like they're the ones
01:03:53
that really have a huge impact on the kids and they're the ones that they like
01:03:59
I mean I saw it firsthand this year being with the kids every single day. Um, like you could all the goal was just
01:04:08
it could be just to walk from inside the classroom outside to the park for recess
01:04:13
and like in that span like there would be meltdowns, there would be like fights, there would be kids saying like
01:04:19
this kid said this and like interpersonal then there would be kids that just want to hold your hand and
01:04:23
then there would be kids that are just like I want to sh tell you about my weekend and it's like all this like a
01:04:29
lovely drama and like human hum human stuff happening, right? >> All these like little piccadillas would
01:04:37
come up all just in like a five minute walk. Um, so it was like everything that I had hoped it would be. And I
01:04:45
>> am just working now to kind of incorporate more and more of my art therapy kind of like curriculum that I'm
01:04:50
making um into the classroom to help teach the kids social and emotional learning and art therapy stuff. But
01:04:58
yeah, not so like we're talking about your feelings now. tell me how you feel,
01:05:03
you know, cuz that kind of I think scares people in general. >> Well, I think that's the that's the
01:05:07
beauty of like something like art is it can also just be a very casual, easy, it's an approachable thing that it's
01:05:16
like, you know, we're just drawing pictures. We're just, you know, we're
01:05:20
just playing with clay. We're just going to we're getting the paints out and
01:05:23
we're going to have some fun, you know, kind of a thing. And then it leads to,
01:05:27
like you brought up before, the being able to ask the questions of like, oh, why did you pick this color to paint
01:05:32
this thing? Or why did you pick this or why did you, you know, why is so and so's head larger than this head? You
01:05:38
know, like even little things like that of like being able to ask those questions
01:05:43
>> because any kid of course wants to share, well, why did you make the design
01:05:47
choices that you made on this thing? And um I used to work at a a Lego store and
01:05:53
we we would do our birthday parties. We would make Pinewood Derby style Lego cars and race them down. And now I would
01:06:00
always ask like, "Okay, well, why did you build it this way or whatever?" And
01:06:03
they're like, "Well, because it's going to be fastest that way, or it's going to
01:06:05
like or I think it looks coolest this way or like, you know, my dad drives this kind of car, you know, whatever."
01:06:11
And I always thought that was like so much fun to kind of like start to >> ask those questions of like, well, what
01:06:17
like why are you making it this way? Because like when I you know you know I'm I'm dealing with anywhere from
01:06:24
kindergarten to you know a couple grade maybe third grade or so you know and you
01:06:28
know to me I'm like it just looks like a block you know but you know but they can
01:06:33
explain everything of like it's blue because it's this you know this thing.
01:06:36
Yeah. >> And um you know and then of course you get that one kid in there that's just
01:06:40
like uber talented that you're like holy crap like >> you know this is insane. But you know it
01:06:47
it was cool. It's like it it's eye opening and I think I also enjoy working
01:06:52
with kids. That's something like I worked at my church youth group for a long time and like in high school and
01:06:56
stuff like I always told people I was like it's because I have the maturity level of those people. So that's why we
01:07:01
get along so well. >> Or I mean you know Picasso I I've quoted Picasso a lot because he's got so many
01:07:06
good ones. Um uh he said uh every child is an artist. The trick is to how do you
01:07:12
remain an artist when you get older? And I think >> instead of I mean because I've heard and
01:07:17
I've said that too like oh I'm just immature. I think it's like that's the
01:07:20
artist brain in you. It's not immaturity. It's like that's your creative brain that like likes to have
01:07:25
fun and ask questions and being curious and >> like that's what I learned from artists.
01:07:29
That's what I love about teaching is like so much curiosity going on and like
01:07:33
passion like you said for school too that we got from homeschooling. >> And like
01:07:38
>> honestly like what you did with the Legos that is art therapy in my book.
01:07:42
Like you and all you really all you they need is somebody to ask them why'd you
01:07:47
do that like why'd you >> pick that color yellow or like why and you see them like opening up and pulling
01:07:54
down the walls. >> Exactly. And they and they talk to each other too. That's the that's the thing
01:07:58
too is they'll explain it to each other as time goes on too as you kind of build
01:08:02
that >> that safe environment there for people, you know, and like that's I think
01:08:08
>> I think I think too I mean we've brought it up like kids are they don't have the
01:08:13
the the >> the mental stops that I think we as adults have the reservations about
01:08:17
things. They're just very like this is why I operate the way and they will tell
01:08:21
you why they do the things that they do if you ask and ask and listen. And so I'm interested like, you know, we're
01:08:28
both pretty far removed from our homeschool experience and >> but we both kind of work in these arenas
01:08:35
and we have done work in these arenas with kids. And so like as we have now friends or maybe we're thinking about
01:08:41
kids down the line or whatever, but like >> homeschooling today and what are the
01:08:46
things that maybe you would encourage parents to be like okay hey like if you're going to do this like you need to
01:08:51
think about these things whether it's like putting them in an art program or
01:08:56
you know I don't want to you know I don't want to give you too many you know
01:08:59
>> answer for you but like you know I tell people my my stance on it is always like
01:09:05
you have to be the best advocate for your child and you need to acknowledge where they fit the best. Whether that's
01:09:10
public school, private school, home school, any of those things. But if you do choose to homeschool,
01:09:16
I personally believe they need they need friends and they need environment to like cultivate those things in. But
01:09:21
anyway, I'm Yeah, I'm going to shut up. I'm going to give you Yeah. What like
01:09:25
homeschool parents coming to you and they're saying, "Hey, okay, like I'm
01:09:28
thinking of homeschooling little Johnny and little Susie." Like >> what are you talking to them about?
01:09:32
>> I mean, definitely I agree with that last part. like especi in particular
01:09:36
like the community like I think that's just in general like we humans need other people. Um
01:09:44
and I don't know the artist brain in me is like were did I always pick the best friends
01:09:51
but like sometime like and I think I well maybe and I'm I know that a lot of
01:09:56
the parents that I talked to this year um at the school a lot of it was who's
01:10:02
my kid friends with? do they have friends? Why are they friends with this kid? You know, and like stuff like that.
01:10:07
And honestly, like especially in kindergarten, like the microcosms of humanity are all just at play here in
01:10:16
the classroom. And I'm like, it's all like good. Like it and not like there's
01:10:22
no problems because there's definitely problems and there's definitely like you
01:10:25
need an adult to help the kids navigate this stuff because they won't just figure this out on their own. like
01:10:31
they'll tear each other apart, you know, if push comes to shove. But they at this
01:10:39
age, which is why I love it, they love they're so receptive. Like they there's
01:10:44
a saying where it's like people or kids will do better if they know better. And
01:10:50
kindergarten so much like that stands so true for kindergarten. It's like they
01:10:56
want you to tell them the best way to do it. They just I mean they they know what
01:11:01
they want but like we had this interaction with two kids where uh one of the kids was a bad influence
01:11:08
or I mean they both together made a interesting mix where sometimes they were really good students together but
01:11:15
then other times they were terri like they were not paying attention they would run out of the classroom and
01:11:21
everything. One of the parents was like oh I don't want my kid to hang out with
01:11:26
this other kid. Um, but my kid, every time I tell my kid this, they're like,
01:11:33
"No, I can't leave them alone. Like, I can't just abandon them." And I was
01:11:36
like, "Well, that's a real feeling." You know, and um and so the kid didn't want to like
01:11:44
disobey or misbehave, but also didn't want to abandon their friend. And so, they were looking for the parent, the
01:11:50
adult to be like, "What? How do I handle this? How do I navigate this? And then
01:11:55
I'll do that for sure." But like I'm not going to just leave my friend high and
01:11:58
dry. And I think for homeschooling parents to try to tie it back around to the question. Um I think that's the job
01:12:06
of parents and teachers is to help your kid or your child achieve their goals. Um and help them live their
01:12:16
like most fulfilled authentic life. And a lot of it is stuff that you won't necessarily know. like you have to ask
01:12:25
them and they you have to listen to them for what they're saying and what they
01:12:29
are like kind of drawn to. But the part that we play is like we can now observe the these things like you could be like
01:12:38
oh I noticed that you're really good at this. Did you ever like let's give you
01:12:43
like my mom did like you're really good at art. Let me give you some more art.
01:12:46
She didn't teach me all the things. She would usually just I mean she wasn't she
01:12:50
did do a fair amount of art too but um she for the most part was just encouraging like oh I noticed that let
01:12:58
me encourage that a little bit more and give you some more opportunities like create this safe space for you to
01:13:02
explore this more. Um and then also I would say like that's one part of it and
01:13:08
the other part is to also be the adult with the discipline and not um uh which I think still is the same goal
01:13:17
of helping your kid reach their full potential but discipline them in how to do that. Not discipline them to just be
01:13:25
a good student and be like you just need to do this this this like arbitrarily like and like we talk about kids with
01:13:31
their [ __ ] meter. It's like I think that's why kids get frustrated at school
01:13:36
and their parents is because they it doesn't logically line up a lot of the times and we just tell them like no you
01:13:41
just have to do this and it's like but why? Um, and I think if you're like, look,
01:13:47
you want to do this, right? And I think most of the time like kids don't I mean this is maybe like my work with
01:13:56
addiction too is like most addiction is striving for some kind of like love and acceptance. Like
01:14:05
whether it's alcohol or drugs or whatever kind of addiction you might have, it's trying to fill this like
01:14:12
underlying need. and the need isn't wrong. So, what they're doing is they're
01:14:16
just like, "This is how I figured out a way to cope with it, but I don't know
01:14:19
any other better way that gives me that same sense of fulfillment. And I know this is hurting me, but it's better than
01:14:25
just feeling like crap all the time." And so, it's like goes back to the thing
01:14:28
where it's like when people know better, they'll do better. Yeah. >> So, I think it's just about helping
01:14:33
people like do what they do like help them fulfill their their passions and their
01:14:42
um what they care about um without telling them like no, you should do this. >> The discipline thing of of talking about
01:14:49
that and like the like you talked about the the idea of like parents saying like, well, you just
01:14:55
need to learn this but not explaining it and that being frustrating for kids. That is extremely frustrating for kids.
01:15:02
I remember my parents doing that and like I know it comes, you know, it's something we've talked about a little
01:15:06
bit now with I've talked about with them a little bit and they're like sometimes
01:15:09
it's just you're so, you know, you're so irritated by like my kid just will not
01:15:13
listen. I just need I just need them to shut up and do the thing, you know, um kind of a thing. But the but the
01:15:18
opportunities that they had where they they kind of talked about and discussed, okay, here's the significance and why
01:15:23
this is important for you. And the more that they did that, um, you know, like that was
01:15:31
that was when I started to have much more of a strong like desire to learn things because they would encourage me
01:15:37
in the ways that I wanted to be encouraged, but they also >> they would discipline me in the in the
01:15:42
ways of like, hey, like like like my dad was like geometry was important because
01:15:47
he's like, you're going to have to paint a room someday and and you know, you're
01:15:50
going to have to buy paint. So like giving the real world application of why this is important and this is
01:15:55
significant and and >> you know whatever it is and it can be as simple as like well if you want to go to
01:16:00
college like you're going to need to know this and sometimes that's enough to
01:16:03
sell somebody on it. >> There's like the two parts where it's like some parents will be like no if you
01:16:08
want to go to college you got to do this and it's like okay but then I noticed
01:16:12
too that there was times where I had students that would fight me on things or like they just weren't doing it and I
01:16:18
was like why are you not doing this? you're usually a really good student. And I was like, "Do you need help with
01:16:23
this?" You know, and the kid might seem really confident in general and like
01:16:28
that was this kid, but when I asked the kid, I was like, "Do you do you need
01:16:31
help to do this?" Like, "Do you need me to show you how to do that?" And they
01:16:34
were like, "Yeah, I have no idea how to do this." And I was like, "Oh my
01:16:37
goodness." And I was like, "I remember feeling like that, too." As the kid, uh,
01:16:40
Mr. Rogers always says that he's like, "The best advice you can give to parents
01:16:43
is just remember what it was like to be a kid." >> Yeah. And like most of the time when we
01:16:47
were pissed off at teachers, it was because they didn't we didn't feel like
01:16:51
they heard our needs or our request or like our side of what we were where we were coming from, you know?
01:16:58
>> Yeah. >> Um and so like with the kid, like that kid wasn't being a bad student, but they
01:17:04
just didn't they didn't even know to ask for help, >> right? >> So like if you tell a kid like if you
01:17:10
want to go to college, you got to do this homework. Well, the kid is probably doesn't even know like the correct way
01:17:15
to study for or the correct way to accomplish that homework and probably doesn't even know how to ask for help
01:17:22
even though they may have asked for help with other things like they might not know that this is
01:17:27
even something that you could ask for help with, you know, and I feel like trying to see through all of that stuff
01:17:33
and be like how what is really the block here? because I don't think kids generally just like want to disappoint
01:17:42
their parents, you know, like that doesn't feel good for anybody. >> There's a part of it too where and I
01:17:48
hope this is an encouragement to parents of like sometimes parents need to learn
01:17:51
how to teach and yes, like my mom had a little bit of that she still had to learn, you know, she she wanted she was
01:17:59
like, I want to be an English teacher. That was like her thing. And so she kind of had some of those skills, but like
01:18:05
she was rusty because she hadn't done that for a long time leading up to homeschooling my sister and I. And in
01:18:12
the same way, like my dad was not a teacher and it took him a very long time to kind of start to grasp that. And we
01:18:19
have we have this joke at my house that um because we bought a a fixer upper and
01:18:24
we did we basically did everything in the house ourselves. And um he was like, "Okay, you're going to like help me
01:18:30
prime the walls of the house." And So, because we had we were painting everything, we had gigantic buckets of
01:18:37
paint, like we had the big like five gallon like super heavy buckets of paint. Um, and we would mix it with a
01:18:44
drill and we had this giant drill bit that had like a thing on the end and you would
01:18:48
>> like a spatula on the end. >> Kind of a spatula. Yeah. Looking thing.
01:18:51
And anyway, so so you'd stick it in there and you and you, you know, you would slowly start it and work it up and
01:18:57
down throughout the paint and mix the paint that way instead of the traditional, you know, a wood stir stick
01:19:01
and a, you know, a gallon of paint or whatever. >> Um, anyway, I wanted to do it. I was
01:19:06
like, "Can I do this?" My dad's like, "Yeah, of course." Tells me no other
01:19:09
instructions. So, all I've seen of him doing this is him using a drill and doing it. So, what as a kid, what do you
01:19:14
do? You just pull the trigger on the drill as far back as you can. Send paint flying everywhere. And so it was one of
01:19:21
those things that he he began to learn as time went on that he was like, "Okay,
01:19:26
>> Jacob wants to help me fix this house. That's great. >> I have to tell him what to do. I have to
01:19:31
communicate. I have to get better about communicating." And obviously some of it
01:19:34
is observational and things like that, but we have to walk through and talk through. And I think I got better about
01:19:39
asking questions too after a while where I was like, "Okay, I really don't know
01:19:43
what I'm doing here, so like can you walk me through it one more time?" But
01:19:46
um but I think that was an important shift where my parents also were learning to teach because we're not just
01:19:54
born with the gift of teaching. Like it's just not >> it's not always the thing. And I think
01:19:59
>> it's like public speaking. It's like communicating like we don't there's many
01:20:03
different ways to communicate and a lot of them are not good >> right and so I think a lot of homeschool
01:20:08
parents they don't have that understanding of how to teach and so I mean I think it go take a night class.
01:20:15
I'm sure that I'm sure there's some resources and things out there um to
01:20:19
like help you kind of like navigate that and learn to do that because being able
01:20:22
to communicate to a kid is going to be very important. If you're going to homeschool your kid, you're going to be
01:20:26
needed to do that every single day. So, >> yeah. And I mean like there's there's
01:20:31
definitely elements of like learning the subject and how to like simplify it down, you know, like they say if you
01:20:36
really know a subject well, you could teach it to like a kindergartener, you know, could which I will say like
01:20:41
teaching math to a kindergartener is so surprisingly difficult because you'll
01:20:46
spend like a 45 minute period teaching them a math problem. And like the thing that you're teaching them is that this
01:20:54
plus this equals this and like these are combined. And like I'm like >> why is this something that we need to
01:21:01
teach? Like this isn't this second nature? But it's really not. Um, >> yeah,
01:21:05
>> I would also say for parents to go to therapy if if they're um if they're uh
01:21:12
um I mean just in general, but I would say the more I've learned about myself
01:21:19
and and this is like a some kind of proverb or or saying in multiple cultures, but it's like the more you
01:21:25
understand yourself and your own desires and your own like motivations, the more
01:21:30
you will understand everyone else. Um, and I think so much, especially if you're teaching your own kid, they're
01:21:40
going to have so much of you in them that you're going to be able to understand them better if you understand
01:21:44
who you are, you know, as a person and like what drives you and >> the kind of little ticks that you have
01:21:50
and stuff. Um, and so I think doing some kind of like deep soularching and like really trying to understand what makes
01:21:58
you tick as a person. um whether that's in the I mean therapy is great I think
01:22:04
but was something that you do to try to like introspect a little bit I think is so my I think um I think it was my
01:22:13
sister who told me that it was like uh and she's like a school like psychologist or like the school
01:22:18
therapist I forget exactly her title but um she said that a parent going to therapy for one year is the equivalent
01:22:26
to their kid going to therapy for five years like oh wow >> just the impact like
01:22:31
>> trickles down. And >> so I would if you're going to be spending every minute of the day with
01:22:37
your kid homeschooling them, I would say make sure you are like mentally healthy
01:22:42
because >> absolutely. Yeah. Emotionally healthy people make emotionally healthy people.
01:22:46
That's the way it works, you know. So >> man, no, this this is great. I feel like
01:22:52
we could chat all day and uh and I appreciate you so much. I want to give you the opportunity. I don't know if you
01:22:59
have any people could follow you, look up your art, see what you do. Um, classes, I don't know. But like,
01:23:06
anything you want to promote, now's the now's the moment. >> Now's the time. Um, no, I mean, right
01:23:12
now I'm, uh, working on stuff a little bit under the hood or behind the curtain. Um, but I will be posting it
01:23:19
soon like on like Teachers Pay Teachers and some of these like art therapy worksheets and lesson plans. Um,
01:23:25
sometimes I do right now Uh, I offer virtual classes. So, they're just 45minute classes. You could sign up um
01:23:34
for them. And, uh, if you want all that information, it's on my Instagram. It's
01:23:39
teacher.noah. >> Teacher. Noah. Sweet. And that'll be in the show notes as well. And then I'm
01:23:44
also going to do one last plug for this as well. >> Mixed up metaphors. I brought it up at
01:23:48
the beginning, but yeah, this book is absolutely incredible. They're hilarious
01:23:52
little You did all of the illustrations, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. So these are absolutely
01:23:58
fantastic. They crack me up. It was like it's the greatest little coffee table
01:24:01
book that I have just like sitting around and when I need a good chuckle it's at my desk and I pick it up and
01:24:06
just flip. So you know I appreciate that. Yeah. And that way I worked hard on it.
01:24:13
>> Yeah. She >> Yeah. kicked butt like designing it and everything like I
01:24:18
>> I was definitely like the aloof artist where I was just like let me just draw
01:24:22
this one. She's she was the one that like the discipline, you know. It's
01:24:25
like, let's get it on paper. Let's organize it like this. Let's make sure
01:24:28
we And oh my goodness, figured out all the Amazon stuff, too. That >> is Yeah, that's a whole
01:24:35
>> It would just be sketches on a piece of paper in my desk if it wasn't for her.
01:24:39
So, yeah. >> Yeah. So, link to that will be in the show notes as well. Okay. Before I let
01:24:43
you go, any last as we've been because we chatted a couple weeks ago, like has
01:24:48
any homeschool memories or things popped up where you've just been like, "Oh my
01:24:52
god, this was like it could be a cringe moment, a happy moment, a sad moment, like something that just was impactful
01:24:57
in your home school experience that like, you know, I always bring up swing dancing was like a big thing for me or
01:25:03
like I had red skinny jeans and that's what a lot of people remember me from."
01:25:07
Um, but you know, anything >> anything pop up while we've been chatting? I had a good friend, his name
01:25:14
is Josiah, and he was my best friend uh when I was maybe like fifth, sixth, seventh, e up until eighth grade. And
01:25:21
then he moved he he lived in New York, so he moved up and went to a public school in New York. Um so we were like
01:25:27
our whole relationship was founded on like that early age of our lives. Um but we're still friends to this day and talk
01:25:33
often. And >> he was actually the one that that skateboarding story had happened to. Um
01:25:39
Okay. That I mentioned at the beginning. Yeah. >> Um, we had our co-op which is like in
01:25:44
this church building like a attachment addendum whatever to the church building and during like in the morning or during
01:25:51
like recess or our breaks he and I would like skateboard and we thought we were so cool like uh and he still
01:25:58
skateboards. He's a he's an awesome skateboarder. I do not anymore. I can
01:26:02
maybe Olly, but um we would like think we were so cool. We were like there was like a big log that was just like in the
01:26:08
parking lot like as instead of like a curb basically is at the end of the parking lot uh like overlooking the
01:26:14
field. So we would go up and we would like try to grind on the log and like like we thought it was just we were like
01:26:22
the cool kids on campus. Um and we were like in fifth or sixth grade. It was so funny. Um and uh
01:26:30
some of our kids got like razor scooters. I think that was like when they came out like those things that
01:26:35
like busted up your ankles when they spin around, you know. But we just had a blast. And uh I remember
01:26:42
>> I think somebody that was like not even a part of our group, but like some one
01:26:45
of the church people like complained and like said that it made it look like we were just like
01:26:51
I don't know kids skateboarding where they shouldn't be skateboarding and
01:26:54
didn't realize that we were part of like the whatever was going on there. And so
01:26:58
they had to do like a no wheels uh ban at the school and we were just like oh fight the like we were so salty about
01:27:07
it. But um >> yeah it was just it was just such a funny thing looking back cuz I'm like
01:27:13
man we were in fifth grade when that stuff was happening and like >> just feeling all this things all these
01:27:18
things. But we ended up going inside and and picking up a guitar instead. And so
01:27:24
we started like learning he he started teaching me how to play guitar. Um but >> right
01:27:28
>> good memories and just >> we all have those >> being like yeah
01:27:32
>> yeah you brought up like razor scooters and I'm like oh my gosh I just remember
01:27:36
yeah ripping around my neighborhood on razor scooters and busting up ankles and >> yeah it was all just such a vibe man
01:27:43
like and that was like when like Star Wars came out so I thought I was super cool so I grew out like a little Jedi
01:27:48
ponytail like a padawan ponytail like >> we were like yeah exactly >> um oh my god Yeah. And yeah, well that
01:27:58
was my buddy had that Josiah had he had like this like braid which was like pretty impressive but it went all the
01:28:03
way down to his like hips. Um but yeah, we just thought we were like playing guitar and like skateboarding and with
01:28:10
our little shaggy hairs and everything. It was just such a fun >> that's hilarious
01:28:16
>> fun time. >> You brought up Star Wars and me and my friends were obsessed with Star Wars.
01:28:20
Star Wars was like the thing and um we would >> I mean it was >> I mean it was it still is like it's
01:28:26
never gone away. It probably never will go away but um >> uh we used to you know everybody had
01:28:32
like their lightsabers and we would play lightsaber battles and all that stuff. Well anyway and we would all pick our
01:28:36
characters. So we all had our person that like was you know our our guy. Well one of my friends he loved Yoda was his
01:28:44
character and so we would but so we were obsessed with Star Wars. We had all the
01:28:49
books. We had everything. So, you know, Yoda only has three fingers. And so, we were like, well, you have to like
01:28:55
>> play with like only three fingers. So, we created this thing. We called it Yoda
01:28:58
piece. And it was these three fingers. And so, we would walk around and this was Yoda piece. And we would just do
01:29:04
this. And so, if you're listening to this, basically imagine my pinky, my middle finger, and my thumb are out. And
01:29:09
then the other two. That's hard. >> It is very hard, right? >> I could I could do it. I think like the
01:29:14
>> What? Yeah. I don't know. That one's hard. The pinky and the middle finger.
01:29:17
My my ring finger doesn't go any higher than that. >> It's kind of like, you know, people do
01:29:20
like the Star Trek. Um Yeah. Like >> Oh, yeah. You could do it full on. Yeah.
01:29:26
>> I have years of practice of Yoda piece, but similar to you. So, we would go and
01:29:30
we would play we would play Star Wars in the parking lot at this church co-op event thing and um and we would always
01:29:36
flip off. We'd be we'd yodepiece each other. And this lady was convinced that
01:29:41
we were just flipping each other off and so she complained and got Yoda piece taken away and we were super salty about
01:29:47
it. And our par some of our parents believed us and some of the parents were like not convinced that we weren't doing
01:29:52
anything wrong and we were like we're just goofing off like it's not you know
01:29:56
it's not we're not doing anything bad you know we're not doing drugs out here
01:29:59
guys you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Let us have our stupid Yoda piece. So
01:30:03
good. Anyway but yeah this podcast always I just feel like it rem it gets people to reminisce and think about
01:30:08
those funny interactions or moments that just happen. And so, thank you for sharing. I appreciate it.
01:30:14
>> No, likewise. I I'm like, as Yeah, we were talking about the Star Wars. I'm
01:30:18
thinking of all the times we had lightsaber powers and like the debates we would have over the movies and like
01:30:22
who is like Oh, I remember one time we were talking about the fact that like how genius it was that like Anakin's
01:30:29
mechanical hand looked like a robot, right? like it looks like a like a mechanical hand, but then Luke's
01:30:36
mechanical hand looks like a human hand and we were just like that like worked out so perfectly because like
01:30:42
technically it's in the future so there technology would be better so it would
01:30:45
look more realistic but really it was because in real life it was like earlier so the technology wasn't better so that
01:30:51
they couldn't and we were just like >> oh my god and I remember talking having
01:30:55
that conversation in like a fort that we made in the forest too like with my buddies like just So cute.
01:31:03
>> I There's all these things that just Yeah. They come up these like little
01:31:06
stories of just like Oh, yeah. build building a fort in somebody's backyard and Yeah. all the all the Star Wars lore
01:31:13
and all the Yeah. everything. It's I don't know. It's just fun to like
01:31:16
reminisce and and I don't know. I hope one of my hopes with the show is always
01:31:20
that it drags up those memories for people and one that then they like maybe just like call that person this week or
01:31:26
text shoot them a text and be like, "Hey, do you just remember this?" like
01:31:29
and just like have a moment where you can reconnect with that person because that's the point of the show. That's
01:31:34
where it all stems from is this idea of we are not alone in our own experiences and for a lot of us there were other
01:31:42
people involved and you know what just pick up the phone give them a call like say hey what's up you know do you
01:31:47
remember this thing because like >> you just never know and it's a good time
01:31:51
you get to catch up you get to know new new people all the you know it's great
01:31:55
that's all I >> that's beautiful I love yeah every time like I you know you talk to an old
01:31:59
friend or like a sibling or something you're like do you remember this and they're like no but I remember this and
01:32:03
you're like oh Man, I do like >> Yeah, exactly. So fun. >> Exactly. Well, Noah, once again, thank
01:32:10
you so much. I appreciate you. Links again for all of Noah's stuff is going to be down in the description. And uh
01:32:15
yeah, if you've made it this far, do all of the internet things that you know how
01:32:18
to do. Like, subscribe, uh share it with a friend, uh leave a comment, leave a fivestar review if you're listening on
01:32:25
Apple Podcast. Um or a four-st star or a three star or a one star if you really thought it was that bad. Hopefully, I
01:32:30
mean that bad. >> Yoda hands. Isn't Yoda piece like There's got to be a five.
01:32:35
>> We are bringing you top tier content on the homechoolers club. >> You're not going to get that anywhere
01:32:38
else. >> Yeah. And of course, you can reach out to me on all the social media platforms
01:32:43
at exhs club uh or shoot me an email at [email protected] if you want to chat. If you got a home
01:32:49
school story you want to share, let me know. I want to talk to you. So, till next time, we'll see you later. Peace.
01:32:57
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