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Today's episode features discussion
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about sexual abuse, pedophilia, and
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Christian nationalism, which may be
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upsetting for some audiences. Viewer
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discretion is advised.
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DL, welcome to the Ex Homeschoolers
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Club. I'm so stoked to have you uh on
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the show today.
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>> Thank you. I was just telling you uh I
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never get to talk about being
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homeschooled, so this could be fun.
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>> Yeah. No, I think it's going to be
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really great. I um for the audience,
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Dell is somebody who has a project
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called Strong Willed, which uh if you
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are familiar with Focus on the Family at
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all, you know, Strongwilled Child is uh
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kind of one of the major books from that
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and teachings of that. And so, it's kind
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of based off of that. And uh and I've
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been listening to your podcast and kind
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of just like following along with what
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you do on Instagram and and some of the
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things you post there. So, um, I'm
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excited not only to talk about your
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homeschool experience, uh, but also to
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talk about Focus on the Family and, uh,
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but yeah, I didn't until literally maybe
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an hour or two ago, I didn't know you
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were homeschooled. And I had kind of
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been digging trying to find in a bio or
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something if you had said like, oh yeah,
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I was a homeschooled kid. Uh, but I was
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like, I'm not sure. So, we'll see where
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it goes. But fill me in on your
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homeschool experience a little bit.
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Like, when were you a homeschool kid?
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How long were you a homeschool kid for?
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What was the homeschool experience like?
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Siblings, that kind of thing. Uh, walk
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me through, give me a taste of your
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homeschool life.
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>> Yeah, sure. Um, I feel like I used to
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talk about it a tiny bit more just in a
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very short way just as a way of
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introducing people to me. I would say
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I'm a homeschooled pastor's kid, right?
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And I, this is especially in the time I
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was writing books for Christian
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publishing. I was, you know, doing
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speaking engagements for Christian
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publishing, all that stuff. Now I don't
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talk about it as much, but you know,
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that's whatever. I I It's interesting
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thinking about the narratives I was told
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about the reasons I was homeschooled. Um
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I remember telling people like, "Yeah,
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my mom was just terrified that public
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school would cause us to leave the faith
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and we would go to hell." I I told
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people that like that was the reason we
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homeschool. And now, you know, I am 42
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years old. I'm like, that's a really
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weird argument um for anything, but also
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I just think it's really a flimsy one as
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well. Also, it didn't work. I'm no
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longer a Christian. I am destined for
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the flames. Um, so sorry mom and dad, it
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didn't work. Um, but we had a just a
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interesting family life. the more I, you
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know, the more I get older and I go to
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therapy and all that, it's like we we
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had some issues in our family. My dad
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was an evangelical pastor and we moved
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every two to three years like like
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clockwork, you know, and my family
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always framed it as God's leading us to
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a new adventure,
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>> right?
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>> Now, I'm not sure about all the reasons
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why we moved all the time, but I'm
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assuming it's just
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broken relationships, you know, church
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drama. My dad was always at these like
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smaller evangelical churches all along
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the West Coast. So, yeah, maybe this
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will be interesting to your to your
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listeners, but I was homeschooled in
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states like Alaska, Wyoming, California,
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uh I guess not Oregon, but just, you
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know, there is a bit of a variety in
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each state and there was like a
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difference, a little bit of a difference
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to our homeschooling in each state. I'm
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the middle of three children. Um, and I
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was the one who did the best with
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homeschooling. I am a very mo like
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self-motivated learner. I'm a huge
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reader. I reading was my main
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dissociation, you know, coping
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mechanism. Even though I wasn't given a
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lot of access to books, I don't know if
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you remember like
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these huge Norton anthologies
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of like English literature and
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>> I think so.
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>> Yeah. So like we would get those, right?
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And my older sister would read some of
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it, I would be assigned some of it, and
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instead I just read through the entire
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thing, right? I'm reading every sing
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over and over and over again just
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because we didn't have access to that
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much and and so I really did well.
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However, I saw my younger sister in
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particular
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um really struggle
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>> academically and just there being no
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avenues or resources to help her. And so
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yeah, I mean it's kind of hard. But I
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always told everybody I loved being
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homeschooled because I would get all my
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work done in a few hours and then I
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would just read. I would play with my
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cats. I would go explore outside.
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And now that I've been diagnosed
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autistic, I'm like, I can see how that
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did work out pretty well for me in some
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ways. But again, since I'm autistic, I
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would say like 10 years ago, I started
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buying some of the history textbooks my
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mom used with me from Abeca, Bob Jones.
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Um,
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and just because I wanted to see how
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kind of awful the history was in
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particular, and it was way worse than I
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remembered. And so I've also had to sort
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of grapple with the amount of
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indoctrination that was an essential
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component to my homeschooling when we
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were actually homeschooled. So I don't
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know if this will resonate to anyone
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else, but there were certain years where
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my mom didn't do anything with us. I
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remember one year we lived in Wyoming
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and she was like, "Okay, we're going to
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read all the Little House on the Prairie
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books and try and cook acorn pancakes
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and that's it for this year." So, you
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know what I mean? Like,
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>> yeah,
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>> that was it. I was like, great, I guess
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I can reread um, you know, my Anna of
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Green Gables book for the 20th time and
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that's that's that's it. And so now I'm
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looking back like she was probably just
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depressed and just totally was like,
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that's all I have in me this year. Um,
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and so somehow I I kind of got through
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it. And then when I was in 11th grade,
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we moved to central Oregon to a small
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town and I asked my parents if I could
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go to the local high school because it
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was like 400 kids. And so they said,
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"Yeah." So then I was I went to school
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for like almost two full years. But
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yeah, my parents academics was not
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important to them. They wanted me to be
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a missionary. And my mom also
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experienced a lot of um I would call it
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religious psychosis about the end of the
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world. Again, I'm just throwing out all
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these things and I'm wondering like who
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will resonate and who will not, but that
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was a huge part of my mom
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>> is she always believed the end of the
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world was coming. So, we always had lots
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of homeschooled doomsday prepper friends
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and uh we were not as intense as them,
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but that's only because my dad was sort
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of like, I don't really believe in all
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this, but sure, I'll stockpile for Y2K,
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but um I don't really believe it. So,
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that was a huge part of the
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homeschooling movement for me and my
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family as well. Okay, that was a lot of
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info.
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>> No, that was No, that's really good
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because I think it gives a really good
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snapshot of like this show is all about
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the difference of experience, right? But
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there there's always things that tie
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together
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>> any of us, right? Because it it there
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there's something in there that
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resonates like you you mentioned like
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your parents homeschooled for religious
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reasons for that kind of like fear of
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indoctrination from public school and
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like the reasons I was given were much
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more had to do with like we were moving.
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My mom was kind of had kind of had this
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worm in her ear from my grandma and some
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friends who were homeschooled parents
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about doing it. And she was like, I
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think I can do it. And also, I don't
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love the school system in the area. And
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and whether that's like the truth or
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whether she was afraid, like that that
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was always the reason I was given was
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just kind of like, hey, we didn't love
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the school system in the area. So, we
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just figured let's do it at home for a
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little bit and see if it works. And but
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you can always go back to public school.
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It's not a big deal if if that's the
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case. And and then it just worked uh so
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to speak. and and she definitely I think
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structured it a little bit more. Um we
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had years that maybe weren't quite as
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structured, but it definitely there was
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always math, there was always science,
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there was always history kind of a deal
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like she she was like, "Okay, we do need
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some kind of a school room setting." But
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you brought up uh Little House on the
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Prairie and I remember those books. I
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was also like a voracious reader and
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reading I think I read all those books
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in a week. It was like a book a day kind
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of a deal. Um, and I just devoured
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books. And so to your point of like, you
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know, your your mom would hand you a
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book and say, "Oh, you just only need to
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read this section and this section,
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right?" Um, and you were like, "I'll
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just read the whole thing."
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>> That was how I was, too. It was just
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hand me a textbook, hand me whatever.
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Like, I'll just read the whole thing.
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It's not a big deal. I got fast at it.
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Also, the more you read, the faster you
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get, right? So, it's like even today,
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it's like I just can devour books if
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necessary. So, I definitely resonate and
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I know there are people who have been on
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the show and listen that will resonate
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with different parts of your story
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because it just it again we have those
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weird connection points and like we talk
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about a lot on the show of like I think
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homeschoolers can kind of smell and
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sniff out other homeschoolers. Uh like I
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said at the beginning, I didn't know you
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were a homeschool kid uh until literally
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this morning. Uh but I had this like gut
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feeling that it was like maybe true. I
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was like, I think it's possible that DL
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is a homeschooled kid, but I don't know
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for sure.
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>> Um, so, so thank you for sharing that.
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I'm curious the role that like maybe
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Focus on the Family, Adventures and
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Odyssey, because that's primarily what
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we're going to talk about today, like
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played in your homeschool life because I
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know for for my family, we waited every
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week for like the new Adventures and
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Odyssey episode was dropping, I don't
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know, Saturday, Sunday night, something
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like that. and we would like we were
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prepped. We were ready. That was like on
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the calendar and there was no moving it,
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you know, we knew that that was coming.
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Uh and as far Focus on the Family was on
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the radio non-stop. It just felt like
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that was the show we listened to every
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day at lunch. Uh kind of a thing. And so
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I'm curious kind of what role Focus on
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the Family played in your upbringing.
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Obviously
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>> religious family, pastor kid,
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>> you know, what what what was their role
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in your life?
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>> Yeah. So focus on the family for people
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who don't know it's this organization
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started by James Dobson I believe in was
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it 1977 and you know the whole thing is
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helping parents helping families you
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know grow godly children godly families
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all that stuff. So if you were
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religiously homeschooled you probably
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had some connection with the work of
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James Dobson. We already mentioned the
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strong willed child. He became super
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famous because he wrote these two books.
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One was published in 1970 was called
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Dare to Discipline. And basically he
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made the case that people like Fred
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Rogers, these permissive parenting
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experts were ruining America. Um, and we
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needed to go back to the Christian
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method of disciplining your children,
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including, you know, using corporal
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punishment, spanking your toddlers every
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time they asserted their will. That was
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his whole thing. That sold millions of
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copies. Um, and then in 1977 he
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published his second book, The
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Strongwilled Child, which was like,
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"Hey, this is for the kids that even if
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you spank them a bunch, they still
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disobey you. Here's what you do." And
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basically, he just says, "Spank them
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more. Um, try and control them more."
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And so eventually, Focus on the Family,
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they did get more into education, I
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think. Now, I'm not an expert in this
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part at all, but to me, Dobson became
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more and more outspoken against public
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schools. He he always was kind of, but
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he got more and more that way and
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eventually did become a huge person
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talking about parental rights and like
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how important it is. And the weird thing
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is when you look at Dobson and all the
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things he was against, right? He was
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against even though he himself was a
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public school teacher um in the
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beginning, he was against public school,
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he was against therapy, he was against
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social workers. Um basically all of
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these people who are mandatory reporters
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and could be involved
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in helping a child if they were in
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abusive situation. So if you kind of
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just take a big step back, Dobson really
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sowed distrust and mistrust of anybody
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that could possibly
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be someone who reported abuse if I'm
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being perfectly honest. I don't I don't
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think that's the entirety of the
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picture, but that's certainly a part of
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the picture of what Focus on the Family
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and James Dobson was doing. My mom used
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to write for Focus on the Family
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magazine. Um, I had an older brother who
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died in a car accident and he was
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autistic, which in the 80s that was like
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hardly a thing. And so my mom wrote a
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lot about autism for Focus on the
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Family. Her facts were totally wrong.
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You know, she believed it was caused by
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vaccines. And she also wrote often about
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how in heaven my brother was cured,
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right? And no longer autistic. And she
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couldn't wait to get to heaven to meet.
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So, not a fun legacy of looking up my
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mom's writings for Focus on the Family,
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but she was kind of in the Christian
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publishing world a little bit. And then,
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of course, we did listen to Adventures
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and Odyssey, um, especially on Family
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Vacations. And that was a program put
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out by Focus on the Family for Kids,
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like a audio radio drama. Now, I have to
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say this for all the Christian
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homeschoolers listening. Um, yes,
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Adventures on Odyssey has great
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production quality
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compared to like a lot of Gri Media. I
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agree with you there. It's a steaming
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pile of dog [ __ ] And just so I'm just
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preparing you for what I'm going to be
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talking about Adventures of Odyssey
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going forward.
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>> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> And I just do that to rip off the
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band-aid because for a lot of
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homeschooled kids, Adventures and
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Odyssey is one of the pieces of media
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they do not want to interrogate. They do
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not want to think about and they do not
00:14:29
want it to be ruined. And I totally
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respect that. I honor that. It's a
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product of James Dobson. So, you gotta
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interrogate it because that man was a
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problem. So, I guess that's that's how
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I'll say it.
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I think it's so interesting that you say
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that because yeah, I I agree. Adventures
00:14:47
and Odyssey like the best quality and it
00:14:49
got me. I work in podcasting podcast
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world. I love radio theater. I wanted to
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work in the music industry. Like it it
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is a big chunk of
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>> me wanting to work in the audio arena.
00:15:02
And so I think that's also part of the
00:15:04
reason it's hard for me to even like
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want to have you on to to ruin it
00:15:09
because I'm like it is this thing that
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even though I can tell myself in my head
00:15:13
I'm like okay yeah it's a Dobson thing.
00:15:15
I know Dobson's not that great. You know
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it's like it is a very tough piece you
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know. I think we do this a lot with
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Veggie Tales as well. It's another one
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of those things that it's like I don't
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want it ruined because I have fond
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memories of it right and I need
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something to hold on to
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>> there as well. Um, but let's ruin it.
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Let's
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>> Should we
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>> Let's do it.
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>> Should we ruin everyone's relationship
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with this precious piece of their child?
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>> I think we should. And I I also, you and
00:15:46
I were chatting a little bit before we
00:15:47
hit record. Like, I've been to the Focus
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on the Family campus in Colorado
00:15:51
Springs. Is it Colorado Springs or in
00:15:54
Denver?
00:15:55
>> Um,
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>> and tooured it. They have an Adventures
00:15:58
and Odyssey section. They have a Wits
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End. So, for anyone who hasn't listened
00:16:02
to Adventures of Odyssey, it all centers
00:16:04
on
00:16:05
>> Wits End, one building, and it's like a
00:16:07
soda parlor shop basically that is
00:16:10
designed for kids to come and have fun
00:16:12
and drink a soda. And um I'm sure you'll
00:16:15
get into more of of some of the
00:16:16
storytelling, but um but they have this
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thing and and even as a kid, I remember
00:16:22
going and being like, "This is so cool."
00:16:23
And this is like it just I don't know.
00:16:26
Oh, he did such a good job of of
00:16:27
inventing this story that I think
00:16:29
appealed to kids and kind of the
00:16:31
imagination of of wanting to run free uh
00:16:34
and tell Bible stories. But we're going
00:16:37
to ruin that and that's okay. I'm I'm
00:16:39
here. I'm going to hold anyone anyone
00:16:41
who's listening who's scared like I am
00:16:43
like I'm going to hold your hand. We're
00:16:44
doing this together.
00:16:45
>> Deal.
00:16:46
>> Ruin it for us.
00:16:47
>> Should we jump in?
00:16:49
>> Yes.
00:16:49
>> I'm I'm holding your hand too, everyone.
00:16:51
Just so you know, this is not exactly
00:16:54
fun for me, but I think the next I mean
00:16:57
the present moment and the next couple
00:16:59
of years is just going to sort of
00:17:02
validate the fact that we need to
00:17:05
rethink a lot of things in pop culture
00:17:07
and the messages they were telling kids.
00:17:09
And um so if I can just jump into the
00:17:13
backstory because it's pretty important.
00:17:15
I became obsessed with James Dobson a
00:17:17
few years ago. And as an autistic
00:17:19
person, I get random obsessions that I
00:17:23
must follow through. It's just a part of
00:17:26
being me, you know. So, I've had my
00:17:29
obsessions with like radical Catholic
00:17:31
anarchist Dorothy Day. Well, I started
00:17:33
getting into James Dobson because I was
00:17:36
learning about fascism and Christian
00:17:39
fascism in particular. This was about
00:17:41
four or five years ago. Uh I was pretty
00:17:44
worried about some patterns I was seeing
00:17:47
in the United States and I read this
00:17:49
book called the mass psychology of
00:17:51
fascism written in 1933. So right after
00:17:54
Hitler got all his power um by a man
00:17:57
named William Reich and the way he
00:17:59
described fascism how it's essential
00:18:01
that it's modeled in the family first so
00:18:04
then it can be replicated as a society
00:18:06
which is why fascists focus on the
00:18:08
family. That's what he said.
00:18:10
They're obsessed with policing and
00:18:12
controlling gender and sexuality.
00:18:14
They're obsessed with a patriarchal
00:18:16
hierarchy being implemented in the home.
00:18:18
They're obsessed with appealing to
00:18:21
hierarchy and authority as God's way,
00:18:24
right? So that must be again implemented
00:18:25
in the home. Then you can implement that
00:18:28
in society.
00:18:30
And oh my god, as I was reading, I was
00:18:32
like, this sounds like focus on the
00:18:34
family, you know, in America. Like what?
00:18:37
And I read a few other books, including
00:18:40
one by Alice Miller called For Your Own
00:18:42
Good. And it looked at the German
00:18:46
Christian parenting methodologies of the
00:18:50
17, 18, 1900s and how they paved the way
00:18:54
for an authoritarian leader in Hitler.
00:18:57
And everything in those parenting books,
00:19:00
I was like, "Wait a minute, this sounds
00:19:02
like Dobson, but like in Germany in the
00:19:05
1800s." But it was all so similar,
00:19:09
including the obsession with corporal
00:19:10
punishment and the obsession with
00:19:13
patriarchal hierarchy and appealing to
00:19:16
God, right, as the ultimate patriarchal
00:19:18
hierarchy. And that's how you get
00:19:20
everybody to kind of submit. So I was
00:19:22
like, damn, this sounds a lot like
00:19:24
Dobson. So I started rereading a bunch
00:19:26
of Dobson books, a bunch of other
00:19:29
evangelical parenting books because
00:19:31
Dobson wasn't the only one. I'm sure
00:19:33
people listening there's there's even
00:19:36
more extreme
00:19:38
like corporal punishment folks in these
00:19:40
worlds. That includes like Michael and
00:19:42
Debbie Pearl. Um that includes the Ezos.
00:19:45
That includes Oh my god, I can't even
00:19:47
think of all the names. But
00:19:49
comparatively, Dobson is actually better
00:19:51
than some of these Christian parenting
00:19:53
experts, especially ones that came after
00:19:54
him who kind of copycatted him but went
00:19:57
even more intense. It's like the whole
00:19:59
blank blanket training thing, you know,
00:20:02
where you smack a baby's hand every time
00:20:04
they try and leave a blanket. Like it's
00:20:07
it's just sadism. Honestly, even Dobson
00:20:10
when you read his books, you're like,
00:20:12
man, he's kind of a sadist. If you don't
00:20:14
believe me, it's just like read his
00:20:17
book, The Strongwilled Child. In the
00:20:19
introduction, he tells this hilarious
00:20:21
story about his little um his little
00:20:25
dog, a little wiener dog who wouldn't
00:20:27
obey him. and they got into this huge
00:20:29
altercation. He took off his belt. He
00:20:30
said he was like beating this dog, you
00:20:33
know, over and over and over again until
00:20:35
finally he broke the dog's spirit and
00:20:37
that dog never disobeyed him again. He's
00:20:39
like, and that's why you should read my
00:20:42
book about breaking the will of your
00:20:44
strong willed child. And I'm just like,
00:20:47
this is animal abuse.
00:20:49
Um, you're a six- foot tall man. you
00:20:53
have this tiny little dog and you think
00:20:55
this is such a great story, but anybody
00:20:59
with empathy, compassion, anything would
00:21:02
be likeay. So, I think it's really hard
00:21:05
to read some of these materials to go
00:21:07
back and be like, if your parent read
00:21:08
that and was like, "This is great."
00:21:11
That's a red flag, yo. I mean, it really
00:21:13
is. There is many opportunities for
00:21:15
parents to read and be like, "This seems
00:21:18
unnecessarily cruel." Dobson also was
00:21:20
obsessed with viewing children and
00:21:22
toddlers as
00:21:24
adults who have willful defiance and sin
00:21:28
that must be beaten out of them.
00:21:31
And I think that's just such a
00:21:33
terrifying thing for a parent to
00:21:35
believe. I'm a parent myself. And I
00:21:38
think that is what really radicalized me
00:21:40
and eventually caused me to leave the
00:21:42
faith is I can't treat my kids that way.
00:21:44
And it's really sad that that is a core
00:21:46
component of how my parents viewed me.
00:21:48
Now, Dobson got his start working for a
00:21:52
man named Paul Popo, who was a very
00:21:55
well-known eugenicist and white
00:21:57
supremacist. And he's actually the
00:21:59
father of modern marriage counseling.
00:22:02
Um, he pioneered this whole column
00:22:04
called Can This Marriage Be Saved? in
00:22:06
the Ladies Home Journal. He started this
00:22:08
center in Los Angeles for counseling
00:22:10
families. Now, he was only counseling
00:22:13
white families and he was super into
00:22:16
eugenics. He was super into Hitler,
00:22:18
super into Third Reich. They loved him.
00:22:20
They used his policies to like promote
00:22:23
the force sterilization of people in
00:22:25
Nazi Germany. He was like, "Cal needs to
00:22:28
do this." He was trying to get
00:22:29
California to do it. Well, after, you
00:22:32
know, World War II was over and America
00:22:34
was like, "Oh, you can't be like openly
00:22:36
supportive of eugen eugenicist
00:22:40
policies." So, he was like, "Okay, then
00:22:43
let's do positive eugenics since the
00:22:45
white race is dying out. Um, let's help
00:22:48
white women marry white men and stay
00:22:51
married, have children, and indoctrinate
00:22:54
their children, right, into replicating
00:22:57
their values." So that's where Dobson
00:22:59
got his start. He worked for Paul Popono
00:23:01
for 10 years. He was a lecturer. He was
00:23:05
an assistant. He did all this stuff.
00:23:06
He's tried to really he tried to really
00:23:09
hide this part of his history, but um
00:23:12
he was deeply deeply involved. And in
00:23:15
fact, the the center he worked with with
00:23:18
Popo, the year it shut down, the year
00:23:20
Popo retired is the year Dobson started
00:23:23
Focus on the Family. And he actually
00:23:25
modeled Focus on the Family after Popo's
00:23:28
organization of a positive eugenic
00:23:30
center, helping white women marry white
00:23:32
men, having a lot of children, and
00:23:34
indoctrinating those children into the
00:23:36
principles. So if that sounds familiar,
00:23:37
it's like, hey, that's what it is. So
00:23:40
this is like harsh truth number one is
00:23:42
if you were born into a family that
00:23:45
utilized these principles you were born
00:23:47
into a positive eugenics movement which
00:23:50
is a white supremacist movement and it's
00:23:53
obsessed with the patriarchy and that's
00:23:55
why it's obsessed with patriarchal
00:23:57
religion in this case Christianity. So
00:24:00
that's the basis we have to know before
00:24:02
we get to talk about adventures of
00:24:03
honesty. Anything you want to say Jacob?
00:24:06
I um you know it's so interesting you
00:24:09
you did an episode on your podcast about
00:24:11
this and I remember listening to it and
00:24:13
I was out on a walk and I listened to
00:24:17
you talk specifically about this and I
00:24:18
was like so J so I I pause the episode
00:24:22
and I just say out loud so James Dobson
00:24:25
trained by a Nazi and I was like that's
00:24:29
a wild thing to say in 2026 and I think
00:24:33
I had listened to this right around the
00:24:35
time that he died. So maybe maybe 20 25.
00:24:38
And I and I just started crying and I
00:24:41
was just
00:24:42
>> that that's the thing about I think
00:24:44
deconstruction and and now being a
00:24:48
decade out from childhood so to speak uh
00:24:52
past the decade out from childhood and
00:24:54
and starting to look back at a lot of
00:24:56
these things that were just normal in
00:24:58
our everyday lives. And you know there
00:25:01
you could there will be people who argue
00:25:03
well there was good stuff and focus on
00:25:04
the family. Well, yeah, they're sure.
00:25:06
Okay. But where does it all stem from?
00:25:09
And I think that's that's the part that
00:25:12
was very it took me a long time, I
00:25:14
think, to sit in that like uncomfortable
00:25:15
nature of that and be like, "Okay, this
00:25:18
was bad." And so, again, when we're
00:25:20
talking about Adventures and Odyssey and
00:25:22
like not wanting to destroy that, it's
00:25:24
because it's comfortable. It's because
00:25:25
like I have fond memories of it and I
00:25:27
have good memories of it and I think it
00:25:28
taught me some good life lessons mixed
00:25:31
in with some bad. But like when you look
00:25:33
at the history of where does all of this
00:25:36
stem from and it all comes back to Nazi
00:25:39
propaganda and Nazi teachings like holy
00:25:42
crap. Like that I want to say no to
00:25:45
that. I grew up believing the Nazis were
00:25:47
bad. You know what I mean? And so it is
00:25:49
a little bit uncomfortable. That's I
00:25:51
think all I'm going to say about that.
00:25:52
But let's get into Adventures and
00:25:54
Odyssey. So what's what's the next step
00:25:56
here?
00:25:56
>> Yeah. So then sorry this is another deep
00:25:59
dive. Um, so this was my original
00:26:02
thesis. This is why we started the
00:26:04
strong willed project is because I was
00:26:06
like, "Hey, I think one of the reasons
00:26:09
America
00:26:10
voted for a legit authoritarian um, and
00:26:14
authoritarian policies is because I
00:26:17
think people have been trained from
00:26:19
birth for the past five decades to
00:26:22
embrace this as God's plan." Right? So I
00:26:25
think Dr. Dr. Dobson was a child
00:26:27
psychologist. He knew the research. Um,
00:26:30
and I think he intentionally was helping
00:26:32
people stunt their children's
00:26:34
development so they would stay in the
00:26:36
fold. They would be very good little
00:26:38
authoritarian followers if I'm being
00:26:40
perfectly honest. Right? So that was my
00:26:43
whole thesis. Dobson needs to be
00:26:45
explored. His parenting methods, his
00:26:47
ideologies, they all need to be explored
00:26:48
because hey, the US is slipping into
00:26:51
fascism. Now my thesis changed in the
00:26:54
past few years because the more I
00:26:57
studied Dobson I now have a slightly
00:27:00
different theory which does we I mean it
00:27:03
involves inventions odyssey so we'll
00:27:04
talk about it here one of the things
00:27:06
Dobson talked about over and over again
00:27:08
was you know keeping kids safe
00:27:10
supposedly he has this whole book called
00:27:12
children at risk and it's like here's
00:27:15
where children are at risk uh they're at
00:27:16
risk because of public schools you know
00:27:19
teaching secularism teaching humanism
00:27:21
They're at risk because people are being
00:27:24
visibly gay every once in a while. Like,
00:27:26
oh my god, they're at risk because
00:27:28
feminists, right, taking over
00:27:30
everything. They're at risk because of
00:27:31
drugs. He loved talking about drugs. He
00:27:34
loved like having an index with like 400
00:27:37
slang terms for drugs. So, if you want a
00:27:39
good laugh, you can just go see the
00:27:41
slang terms that Dobson was into um
00:27:44
about drugs. They're very funny. But he
00:27:47
never actually addressed what was really
00:27:50
harming kids, which is this pervasive
00:27:54
abuse of children within Christian
00:27:57
families and you know outside of it as
00:27:59
well. So he talked a lot about the evils
00:28:01
of pornography. This was also a staple
00:28:03
of focus on the family. I know this
00:28:05
topic can be kind of triggering for
00:28:07
folks. So I'm just going to give some
00:28:08
broad strokes. The reason I
00:28:12
started researching this is because
00:28:13
Dobson would not shut up about the fact
00:28:16
that he was on a presidential commission
00:28:19
in 1985 called the ME Commission on
00:28:21
Pornography where he was one of 11
00:28:23
commissioners for a whole year. They
00:28:26
just talked about pornography and was
00:28:29
it, you know, was it contributing to
00:28:32
violence? Like should it be illegal or
00:28:34
not? You know, all this stuff. and he
00:28:37
just loved to talk about his time, how
00:28:39
it was so horrible and he just did it
00:28:42
for the people and you know so I
00:28:45
actually went and studied the me
00:28:47
commission. I studied the lectures they
00:28:49
heard. I read the transcripts of the
00:28:51
experts they heard from and the truth
00:28:53
was in 19 1984 is when child pornography
00:28:56
was finally made illegal. So this was
00:28:59
the next year and so a huge portion of
00:29:03
the discussion for that year was talking
00:29:05
about child pornography, who makes it,
00:29:09
um how to stop it, how to prosecute it,
00:29:13
how to you know all this stuff. So it
00:29:16
was a huge huge issue and everything
00:29:18
Dobson learned in his year on that
00:29:20
commission. He did not take that
00:29:23
information and share it with his wide
00:29:26
audience of families with kids. I find
00:29:29
that very troubling partly because the
00:29:32
information he was hearing over and over
00:29:34
and over again from the FBI, from social
00:29:36
workers, from all these experts in child
00:29:39
protection at the time, they said over
00:29:41
and over again, "It's not the man in the
00:29:43
trench coat you should be worried about.
00:29:45
It's not the stranger danger." Okay?
00:29:48
Society likes those narratives because
00:29:51
we cannot deal with the reality, which
00:29:53
is the vast majority. I and even this
00:29:56
was true in 1985
00:29:59
and it's somewhat similar to today. 99%
00:30:02
of child sexual assault materials are
00:30:04
made by a a child's family member.
00:30:08
Overwhelmingly the child's father then
00:30:11
the stepfather.
00:30:13
And then a smaller population of of
00:30:15
offenders are people who are what they
00:30:18
call acquaintance molesters. So like
00:30:20
pillars of the community, a coach, a
00:30:22
pastor, you know, a volunteer somewhere.
00:30:25
So that was it. So they had even people
00:30:28
like Mitch McConnell testifying in front
00:30:30
of Dobson and others saying like
00:30:32
actually the profile of a child molester
00:30:35
is a middle-aged white man married in
00:30:39
some kind of position of authority, some
00:30:42
kind of pillar of the community. And the
00:30:44
reason we need to focus on them and talk
00:30:46
about them is because they are repeat
00:30:49
offenders. They are five times more
00:30:51
likely than any other kind of criminal
00:30:54
to repeat their crimes, which is
00:30:58
sexually abusing and sexually exploiting
00:30:59
children. So people are really up like
00:31:03
intense about this topic because
00:31:05
personal computers were just starting to
00:31:06
become a thing. The FBI was like, "This
00:31:09
has a potential to be really bad because
00:31:11
pedophiles love to find each other. They
00:31:13
love to share materials. They love to
00:31:14
share images. Like, this could actually
00:31:17
get way worse. So, we really need to
00:31:18
talk about this.
00:31:21
One of the other things I discovered was
00:31:22
that Dobson was like the conservative
00:31:24
Christian on this commission. There was
00:31:27
also a Catholic priest named Father
00:31:29
Bruce Ritter on the commission. Him and
00:31:31
Dobson both, right, hate pornography.
00:31:33
They want all of it outlawed.
00:31:35
Um well the year after this commission
00:31:37
it comes out that father Bruce Ritter
00:31:39
himself was a pedophile and he had been
00:31:41
accused of molesting I believe at least
00:31:43
14 people including children that he
00:31:47
helped house in this home he started for
00:31:50
Wayward Youth in Times Square. Um he was
00:31:53
sexually abusing them at the same time.
00:31:55
Right yet here he was on this commission
00:31:57
saying all of this is bad. Only
00:32:00
Christians have the moral, you know, the
00:32:02
moral capacity to say this is all bad.
00:32:04
So that happened. This is important
00:32:06
because Dobson served on the commission
00:32:09
1985. 1986 his buddy Bruce Ritter is
00:32:12
outed as a serial child pedophile. Um he
00:32:15
never faced any consequences by the way.
00:32:16
He just uh retired and went to live in a
00:32:19
farm for priests um in upstate New York.
00:32:22
>> I mean why would we why would we why
00:32:24
would we prosecute any of these people?
00:32:25
That's that's the thing I've been so
00:32:28
interested in realizing recently, and I
00:32:30
know I'm gonna totally derail what you
00:32:32
were saying, but is just the fact that
00:32:36
over and over and over again, we see
00:32:37
that the statistics point to church
00:32:39
leaders. They point to
00:32:42
pillars of the community like you were
00:32:43
saying, right?
00:32:44
>> And yet a lot of those those men, they
00:32:47
are they're church-going people, right?
00:32:50
And then there's the forgiveness
00:32:52
movement of
00:32:53
>> you know there was there is no
00:32:54
consequences to their actions and we see
00:32:56
it repeated again and again and again.
00:32:59
We see it with the recent conversion of
00:33:01
of highprofile people like Russell Brand
00:33:04
right who gets he right he's convicted
00:33:07
or he he's accused of sexual abuse and
00:33:10
then what does he do? I'm a Christian.
00:33:12
Guess what? I'm all good. I'm washed in
00:33:14
the blood of the lamb. Like I'm good.
00:33:16
And what do we do in the Christian
00:33:18
world? We continually prop him up. We
00:33:20
put him as a speaker at these events to
00:33:22
tell his testimony of coming his come to
00:33:25
Jesus moment. There is no consequences
00:33:27
for his actions. There is only let's
00:33:30
just continue to pay this man buu
00:33:32
dollars uh and prop him up as a leader
00:33:35
of this movement. It's just really
00:33:36
bizarre to me and I don't understand
00:33:39
why that is. Like I and and again it's
00:33:41
something I'm deep diving on now more so
00:33:44
because I fall into that category. I'm a
00:33:46
straight white guy. I grew up in a lot
00:33:48
of this, too. I'm trained to just wash
00:33:51
away and and be okay with when other
00:33:53
white guys just do bad [ __ ] right? We
00:33:56
It's okay. They're, you know, they're
00:33:58
messed up person, you know, and it's
00:33:59
like that's not the reality. There's
00:34:01
consequences to our actions. So,
00:34:03
>> my aside, I'm sorry, but
00:34:05
>> I think that's great because let me just
00:34:06
take it back again to the parenting
00:34:09
methods many of us who were homeschooled
00:34:11
or raised with, right, is corporal
00:34:13
punishment. Um, and again going based
00:34:16
off of what Dobson said, there was no
00:34:17
forgiveness of sins for a two-year-old
00:34:20
who's saying no to their parent. It's
00:34:22
they get consequences, physical
00:34:24
consequences. They must say sorry. They
00:34:26
must feel pain. They must cry to be
00:34:29
resol, you know, absolved. And yet we
00:34:31
see men, you know, they're forgiven when
00:34:35
kids are not even forgiven in these
00:34:37
systems. So like once you can kind of
00:34:38
see the power dynamics at work, you can
00:34:40
see it for the charade that it is. And I
00:34:44
just think like my most recent post is
00:34:47
on the forgiveness clause and how that
00:34:49
enables abusers to get away with their
00:34:52
crimes because the two things uh so
00:34:54
again obsessing about Dobson means I now
00:34:57
know way more about serial child
00:34:58
predators than I ever wanted to know and
00:35:01
because of studying the ME commission
00:35:03
they said the two things a serial child
00:35:06
predator is always looking for is
00:35:07
they're always looking for a steady
00:35:09
supply of children right access to
00:35:12
victim And they're also looking for ways
00:35:14
to get away with their crimes, right? To
00:35:16
not be held accountable. Now, they find
00:35:19
that in patriarch patriarchal Christian
00:35:22
spaces because those spaces are geared,
00:35:25
right, to elevate the man, to elevate a
00:35:27
Christian. Even in 1985 on the ME
00:35:30
commission, they're talking about
00:35:31
there's all these studies like if a man
00:35:33
was even convicted of crimes against
00:35:37
children, which rarely happens, if he
00:35:40
was a Christian and if he had community
00:35:42
members testify to his good character,
00:35:46
um the judge would just give the most
00:35:48
lenient, you know, sentence available,
00:35:51
right? Then so even in 808 85 they were
00:35:53
saying people are saying they're
00:35:54
Christians and saying they're pillars of
00:35:56
the community to get away with their
00:35:58
crimes and like we need to know this is
00:36:01
the profile of a predator. It's not this
00:36:04
creepy weirdo in the park. It's it's the
00:36:06
businessman with all his friends. And
00:36:08
going back to father Bruce Ritter, he
00:36:10
started this house, the Covenant House
00:36:12
for runaway youth. He ended up abusing
00:36:14
youth in there, but he stacked his board
00:36:16
with like a who's who of like New
00:36:18
Yorkers, right? of powerful New Yorkers.
00:36:22
And that was one of the reasons why he
00:36:24
escaped all accountability is because
00:36:26
all of these powerful people were like,
00:36:29
you know, he's our bud. We're not going
00:36:30
to do anything about it. So these are
00:36:32
all the systems at play that keep
00:36:35
predators
00:36:36
safe while making sure children are not
00:36:40
seen and not heard and their abuse is
00:36:42
not taken seriously. I think this is
00:36:43
still obviously a huge deal in 2026. We
00:36:47
have Epstein, we have all this [ __ ]
00:36:48
going on. Um, even with AI just it it
00:36:52
there's so many issues when it comes to
00:36:54
this sexual exploitation of children.
00:36:57
And in conservative Christian world, in
00:36:58
homeschooling world, it's like no, that
00:37:00
doesn't happen. That doesn't happen in
00:37:01
Christian families. Um, we're all very
00:37:04
anti this stuff. But the thing is,
00:37:06
Dobson heard all that material. Plus, he
00:37:09
had this experience with Father Bruce
00:37:10
Ritter. And what does he do the very
00:37:12
next year? He creates a children's
00:37:15
program centered around a man in his 50s
00:37:19
or 60s um who has an ice cream soda
00:37:22
parlor for children, right? Where he
00:37:25
interacts with children constantly and
00:37:27
he also indoctrinates them into
00:37:29
Christianity and like revisionist
00:37:32
history, right? Parents are pretty
00:37:34
peripheral in Odyssey world. I think we
00:37:36
can all sort of agree to that. Um and
00:37:40
Wit is like the
00:37:43
the prototype
00:37:46
of a man who has made himself a pillar
00:37:48
of the community so that even if you
00:37:51
know allegations surfaced
00:37:54
every single person would be on his side
00:37:56
right so not so he's rich he um I don't
00:38:00
even know all the things that he does
00:38:01
right but he teaches at the school
00:38:03
sometimes he um is ahead of like the
00:38:06
business things he gets like Pride
00:38:09
Parade shut down. Like he knows
00:38:11
everyone. And one of the weird themes
00:38:13
about Adventures in Odyssey is like most
00:38:16
of the time the kids are wrong, right?
00:38:20
The kids are wrong and they need the
00:38:23
guidance of Mr. Whitaker to know what to
00:38:26
do or their parents or their church, but
00:38:28
usually it's Mr. Whitaker, right? Has
00:38:30
the wisdom. Even setting up a show like
00:38:33
that, I believe, is irresponsible,
00:38:35
right? But this is like the bread and
00:38:37
butter of evangelical Christianity. Kids
00:38:39
are wrong. Kids are wrong. Kids are
00:38:41
wrong. Like they need help. They need
00:38:44
wisdom. They need guidance from God and
00:38:46
therefore from a person like Mr.
00:38:48
Whitaker who says God speaks directly
00:38:50
through him, which again is sort of a
00:38:52
batshit like claim to make and to
00:38:56
promote to kids. So again, what the
00:38:58
experts were telling Dobson is you need
00:39:00
to share the information about who is
00:39:02
most likely to hurt kids. he actually
00:39:04
went and did the exact opposite. And I
00:39:07
think hopefully in 2026, we can see how
00:39:11
serial child predators are very
00:39:13
interested in shaping the culture to
00:39:15
make it easier for them to get away with
00:39:17
their crimes. And I think that is at
00:39:20
least a part of what was going on with
00:39:22
the creation of Adventures in Odyssey.
00:39:25
What do you think, Jacob? Do you think
00:39:26
I'm way out out of left field?
00:39:29
>> I don't think you're out of left field.
00:39:30
I definitely
00:39:32
as you explain it right of of and I'm
00:39:34
thinking back to listening to Adventures
00:39:37
in Odyssey and thinking about those like
00:39:39
who is the who are the people
00:39:41
responsible right and so and who are the
00:39:44
people we're turning to when things go
00:39:45
arai I'm thinking specifically of an
00:39:47
episode and I remember a kid Mr.
00:39:49
Whitaker tells him, "Don't go in the
00:39:51
imagination station," which is his like
00:39:54
uh basically machine that takes you
00:39:56
anywhere in the world, right? To any
00:39:57
historical moment. It takes you to um it
00:40:00
takes you to a Bible story or a lot of
00:40:04
different things, but he tells him not
00:40:05
to go in it. Kid does it anyways cuz he
00:40:07
just wants to. And then there's some
00:40:09
kind of consequences down the line. And
00:40:12
I remember like I mean I'm thinking
00:40:15
about applying that to my own life and
00:40:17
looking at the people I trusted and just
00:40:19
like explicitly trusted and they were
00:40:22
the leadership in my life. Not only my
00:40:24
parents, my youth pastors, my pastors,
00:40:27
you know, uh specifically a lot of times
00:40:30
men who were older than me, just
00:40:31
trusting them with whatever. Why would
00:40:34
they why would they steer me wrong,
00:40:36
right? They're a trusted member of my
00:40:38
community. They're a trusted member of
00:40:39
my church. Why would I ever think that
00:40:42
they would do anything wrong? And then I
00:40:44
think about the men that did do things
00:40:46
that made me uncomfortable or did and
00:40:49
not wanting to talk about it because
00:40:51
well, why would this person hurt me,
00:40:52
right? It's that it's and wanting to be
00:40:55
silent about it. And it wasn't until
00:40:56
much later that I finally was like this
00:40:59
was [ __ ] weird, right? The way that
00:41:01
this dad would hug us, the way that this
00:41:04
parent would do this or say this or felt
00:41:06
like they had this authority of that's
00:41:08
[ __ ] weird, right?
00:41:10
And
00:41:12
and it was and I'm not the only one who
00:41:14
felt that way. When I started talking to
00:41:16
my friends, I realized I'm not alone in
00:41:18
this. And I think that's it's getting to
00:41:22
the point of what you were saying is
00:41:23
like for most of our childhood,
00:41:26
especially those of us raised with a lot
00:41:27
of the focus on the family values.
00:41:30
I think there is kind of this
00:41:32
understanding that when you step out of
00:41:34
line, you get in trouble. you get you
00:41:36
get the wooden spoon, you get the
00:41:37
spanking, you get what that whatever.
00:41:39
And even as an adult, I was still living
00:41:42
under kind of that feeling of like,
00:41:44
well, if I step out of line, if I get if
00:41:46
I make it uncomfortable at all for
00:41:48
anybody else who's in authority over me,
00:41:50
because my parents are still in
00:41:51
authority over me,
00:41:54
I'm going to get hurt somehow. I'm going
00:41:56
to get ostracized. I'm going to get
00:41:58
kicked out of my community. I'm going to
00:42:00
whatever
00:42:01
>> the punishment is, that's going to
00:42:03
happen to me. Um, and so I think it's I
00:42:05
think again it continues to stem this
00:42:07
idea of authoritarianism and why we're
00:42:09
so comfortable with it because it's like
00:42:11
why would the people who are in charge
00:42:12
want to hurt us
00:42:15
because sometimes they just [ __ ] do,
00:42:17
you know? That's just their their
00:42:20
reason. So anyway, I'm with you. It's
00:42:23
hard to hear. It's hard to hear to be
00:42:24
honest.
00:42:25
>> I agree. just like thinking about like
00:42:28
the Trump administration, the policies
00:42:30
that are hurting so many people and you
00:42:32
know we keep hearing this refrain from
00:42:33
because the media is obsessed with
00:42:35
asking people who voted for Trump how
00:42:36
they feel about it and some you know
00:42:39
people especially from various immigrant
00:42:40
communities being like you know I just
00:42:42
didn't think he'd come after us right
00:42:46
>> and you know I just think that's it's
00:42:48
just a sad reality that people are
00:42:51
starting to understand I think for me
00:42:54
being a parent really helped me
00:42:57
deconstruct
00:42:58
a lot of this because as my kids got
00:43:01
older, it's like I definitely do not
00:43:04
want to teach them that if a man says he
00:43:07
is a Christian, you should trust him and
00:43:09
you should do what he says. Like hell
00:43:12
no. Like I'm I was still very much a
00:43:15
Christian and I was like yikes. That's a
00:43:18
recipe for abuse if you ask me. And this
00:43:21
was way before I had really unpacked a
00:43:24
lot of it. And
00:43:25
>> I think again just going back to that
00:43:27
like why would you teach your kid that
00:43:30
at this point you need to teach your kid
00:43:32
like first of all just some really
00:43:34
basics of uh consent and bodily autonomy
00:43:38
and that you you know can and should say
00:43:41
no to unsafe and unwanted touches like
00:43:44
on your body. That's just the baseline.
00:43:46
Now Dobson never taught that and in fact
00:43:48
he taught the opposite. He taught
00:43:50
parents you have to hurt your children
00:43:54
physically, right? Um, in order to get
00:43:57
them to become Christians and to obey
00:44:00
God and to, you know, have a good life
00:44:02
or whatever. So I'm like Dobson already
00:44:06
is setting the groundwork for kids who
00:44:09
have no concept of consent and will not
00:44:11
say no and actually will even believe
00:44:14
that they deserve or need right this
00:44:18
kind of abuse in order to make them good
00:44:21
or you know it just it gets so sticky so
00:44:24
fast and again knowing that he was a
00:44:26
child psychologist to me it makes it
00:44:28
even more horrifying
00:44:30
>> that he knew all of this he worked at a
00:44:33
children's hospital. He s I know he saw
00:44:35
case after case after case of horrific
00:44:37
abuse against children. And what does he
00:44:40
go and do? He says, "Guess what? You
00:44:42
should trust every Christian man in your
00:44:44
life. And you need to be on the lookout
00:44:47
for queer people and feminists because
00:44:50
they're going to hurt your kids." That
00:44:52
is not true.
00:44:54
>> Yeah. I think it's so interesting that
00:44:56
you bring that up because I think I
00:44:58
think that a part of what made him I
00:45:01
think so credible in the space is that
00:45:04
he had the doctor element to it. Yeah.
00:45:07
>> He did the training. He went to school.
00:45:09
He did the time, right? And so
00:45:12
>> again, it's that it it plays into that
00:45:14
whole trusting that person who has the
00:45:17
authority. They've taken the time. They
00:45:19
whatever they have the letters in front
00:45:21
of their name. And so I think but as
00:45:24
we've come to find out, he's taking the
00:45:26
information he's given and he's just
00:45:27
tossing it in the bin and saying, "No,
00:45:29
that can't be it. We're going to do
00:45:30
these other studies. We're going to or
00:45:31
I'm going to point to this other
00:45:32
direction." And I see that a lot to
00:45:36
bring back to the homeschool community.
00:45:38
We see that a lot in the homeschool
00:45:39
community. I remember as a kid
00:45:41
continually being told homeschoolers are
00:45:43
smarter. We get into colleges a lot
00:45:46
easier. We get through college a lot
00:45:48
faster than other people. we end up with
00:45:50
higher paying jobs. All of these things.
00:45:52
And as a as now as an adult, um I I go
00:45:56
and I research those studies. Where did
00:45:58
this come from? And I realize it's not
00:46:01
true. It's all fabricated or twisted
00:46:04
version of that information that has
00:46:07
been paid for by pro homeschool
00:46:10
movements. And unfortunately, Dobson was
00:46:13
doing very similar things uh with
00:46:16
especially the stuff around child abuse
00:46:18
and taking those numbers and skewing
00:46:19
them or just hiding them altogether. Um
00:46:23
yeah, it's unfortunate to to say the
00:46:25
least.
00:46:26
>> Yeah. And you know, again, I just keep
00:46:28
going back to like as I've read other
00:46:30
people, sociologists, um, psychologists
00:46:34
who talk about,
00:46:36
you know, one of the most taboo subjects
00:46:38
is the prevalence of incest that happens
00:46:42
in families. It's much higher than
00:46:44
anyone wants to believe. This has been
00:46:47
an issue for a long time. I mean, Sigman
00:46:50
Freud, right? Like, he had this whole
00:46:53
thing where he he listened to his female
00:46:55
patients who were hysterical and every
00:46:58
single one of them disclosed that they
00:47:00
were sexually abused by their father or
00:47:02
one of their father's friends.
00:47:05
And so he was like, "Wow, so this causes
00:47:08
hysteria, right? And this is happening
00:47:11
so much and especially in the
00:47:13
bourgeoisi, right?" And so he was like,
00:47:16
"I can't believe this." But then he got
00:47:18
scared and he like rescended his paper
00:47:22
on the subject and he instead was like I
00:47:25
think these women are sexually attracted
00:47:28
to their fathers and so they made up
00:47:30
these stories because secretly
00:47:34
subconsciously they want to have sex
00:47:35
with these men and that's leading to all
00:47:38
this problem. So that is horrifying
00:47:41
right that's just like the and that's
00:47:43
the basis of modern psychotherapy right
00:47:46
there. these women made it up because
00:47:49
secretly they kind of want to have this
00:47:52
relationship with their dad. Like I
00:47:54
can't express you how awful that is. And
00:47:56
I think it's good to bring that up just
00:47:58
like this is not just a Christian issue.
00:48:00
This is like a
00:48:02
>> horrible men protecting horrible men
00:48:05
because Frick was basically like if this
00:48:08
is true then like the people propping up
00:48:11
society in Vienna are all child
00:48:14
molesters.
00:48:16
Um, that can't be true. I just refuse to
00:48:19
believe it. These women were making it
00:48:21
up. How does that sound in 2026 as we
00:48:23
learn more and more about Epstein and
00:48:25
the connections politically,
00:48:27
economically, socially, and what? It's
00:48:30
in media, it's in entertainment, it's in
00:48:32
business, it's in politics. Like, this
00:48:35
really is a thing that happens that we
00:48:38
must be talking about. Now, Dobson isn't
00:48:41
like
00:48:43
Dobson wasn't flying to Jeffrey
00:48:46
Epstein's island. You know what I mean?
00:48:48
Like, that's not what was happening. But
00:48:51
Dobson was creating the conditions where
00:48:54
a serial child predator could probably
00:48:56
get away with his crimes if he was in
00:49:00
these kinds of communities and would
00:49:03
have access to children, possibly even
00:49:05
his own children could do this. And then
00:49:07
there's multiple ways where the child
00:49:09
will not disclose for so many reasons.
00:49:12
But
00:49:14
that's another thing is Dobson never
00:49:16
told people to report abuse to
00:49:18
authorities. Instead, like I mentioned,
00:49:20
he told people to homeschool their kids,
00:49:23
right, where nobody would be able to
00:49:25
know and see, to distrust all therapy
00:49:28
and therapists, unless it was like a
00:49:30
Bible-based therapist. um like all of
00:49:34
these places where you a child would
00:49:37
maybe like have a concerned adult
00:49:39
intervene. Do was like no don't do that.
00:49:43
I just think about focus on the family
00:49:45
has this hotline, a crisis hotline, and
00:49:47
I don't know how to get this
00:49:48
information, but I'm just curious like
00:49:50
how many people have called in,
00:49:53
disclosed abuse, and I wonder what Focus
00:49:56
on the Family tells them because in none
00:49:58
of Dobson's materials does he tell
00:49:59
people to disclose that abuse to the
00:50:01
proper authorities. Um, and in fact, in
00:50:05
his purity culture books and things like
00:50:06
that, he often says things like, you
00:50:09
know,
00:50:11
um, a father's not really supposed to
00:50:12
notice when his 14 or 15year-old, right,
00:50:15
is developed as a woman, but he does.
00:50:18
And it's usually quite innocent. And,
00:50:20
you know, he just throws out things like
00:50:22
that over and over and over again. He
00:50:23
sexualizes kids constantly in his
00:50:26
writing. And in fact, most purity
00:50:28
culture authors do. That's just the sad
00:50:30
truth. Purity culture gives them an
00:50:32
excuse to talk about kids, uh, tween and
00:50:35
teens as sexual beings and to have lots
00:50:38
of conversations with kids and teenagers
00:50:40
about their sexuality, which in of
00:50:42
itself is is quite creepy if you ask me.
00:50:45
Um, there's just all these things that
00:50:47
add up to these communities are obsessed
00:50:50
with the sexuality of children. They're
00:50:53
also obsessed with this belief that men
00:50:55
can't control themselves. I don't know
00:50:56
if you grew up with this at all, Jacob,
00:50:58
being a
00:50:58
>> I was going to bring this up actually. I
00:51:00
was going to bring this up because what
00:51:01
you're saying I'm so thankful my my
00:51:04
parents are not perfect but I'm so
00:51:06
thankful for my dad in this one
00:51:08
circumstance and that is that growing up
00:51:10
in Southern California you go to the
00:51:12
beach a lot who are at the beach people
00:51:14
in bathing suits women in bikinis
00:51:17
totally fine as a young man I remember
00:51:20
especially hitting puberty ages and
00:51:22
sexual urges are starting to happen and
00:51:24
you know that messaging of the
00:51:26
uncontrollable lust is is coming in
00:51:29
>> and It's and I remember my dad taking me
00:51:32
aside at one point and just saying,
00:51:34
"Look, you know, sexual feelings are
00:51:36
very natural. They're normal. However,
00:51:39
there's there's always context. When
00:51:41
we're at the beach, that's not a sexual
00:51:43
environment. So, you don't need to be,
00:51:46
you know, those feelings don't need to
00:51:48
be happening because this is not a
00:51:49
sexual environment." And that alone,
00:51:52
that just like little nugget helped me
00:51:54
so much because while my other friends
00:51:56
were like struggling to peel their eyes
00:51:58
away or just existing in that world of
00:52:01
being told I am uncontrollable
00:52:04
everything I do, it's like it's a
00:52:05
monster living inside of me, right? I
00:52:07
think of the show Big Mouth and how they
00:52:09
have the hormone monsters that are just
00:52:10
like uncontrollable. if anyone's
00:52:12
familiar with that show. But but I
00:52:14
didn't I I'm not going to say I didn't
00:52:16
totally have that problem, but I I
00:52:18
definitely I started to figure out that
00:52:20
it was like there's context to
00:52:22
everything and not everything has to be
00:52:23
a sexual moment and I don't especially
00:52:25
don't need to look at for me the
00:52:28
opposite sex, but I don't need to look
00:52:30
at other people always in a sexual
00:52:32
context. And that I think helped
00:52:33
drastically with just my understanding
00:52:36
around sexuality and and being a sexual
00:52:39
person because it was just it's it
00:52:42
doesn't have to be all the time. It just
00:52:44
it doesn't. But that is the messaging
00:52:46
that is continually put in men's brains
00:52:48
in the church of just
00:52:51
you are always going to be horny. You
00:52:53
are always going to get turned on. You
00:52:54
are always this that and the other. And
00:52:56
is your job to fight against it. But not
00:52:58
even that it's your job to fight again
00:53:00
against it. It's women's job to not put
00:53:03
you in the position
00:53:04
>> Exactly.
00:53:04
>> to have to fight against it.
00:53:06
>> And so
00:53:08
that
00:53:09
again, the more I unpack and the more I
00:53:11
learn about my childhood and the purity
00:53:13
culture stuff, I reread I kiss Kiss
00:53:15
Dating Goodbye this past year, just like
00:53:18
unpacking a lot of that
00:53:21
understanding of of what boys were being
00:53:23
taught, what girls were being taught.
00:53:25
It's it's really
00:53:28
scary to be honest because it set up an
00:53:31
environment where men truly don't have
00:53:34
to take accountability for their for
00:53:35
their actions because we are like wild
00:53:38
animals, right? And you can't really
00:53:40
hold a wild animal responsible for its
00:53:42
actions, right? Because it's just a
00:53:43
natural part of who it is.
00:53:46
>> I I choose to disagree.
00:53:48
>> I'm sorry. It's not We're not wild
00:53:50
animals. Like we c we can be trained to
00:53:53
not uh not react in certain
00:53:56
circumstances and to control our
00:53:58
thoughts and things like that. We just
00:54:00
don't want to because
00:54:04
for whatever reason men have this
00:54:08
desire to be in control. It's the
00:54:10
society we've built. It's the
00:54:11
patriarchal patriarchal
00:54:14
society we've built of men have to be in
00:54:16
control. We have to be the dominating
00:54:18
voice dominating everything. And it's
00:54:20
just like it's just [ __ ] It just
00:54:23
really is at the end of the day. I don't
00:54:25
know how else to say it. It just is
00:54:26
[ __ ] And the more I learn about it,
00:54:28
the more I realize I need to just be
00:54:31
okay sometimes with other people taking
00:54:33
the lead on things and let them let them
00:54:35
handle it. But anyway,
00:54:38
>> yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're you're
00:54:40
right on. So I uh was you know raised
00:54:44
and socialized as female and
00:54:48
I just remember in youth group that's
00:54:51
primarily where I got the purity culture
00:54:53
stuff cuz my parents were pretty hands
00:54:55
off on all of that like very neglectful
00:54:58
teaching me nothing about sexed all that
00:55:00
stuff but I just remember hearing things
00:55:02
like guys think about sex every seven
00:55:06
seconds. I remember being told like, you
00:55:08
know, guys can't help it. Um, it's my
00:55:12
job to dress modestly, right? So that
00:55:15
not just like the other high schoolers
00:55:18
wouldn't stumble, but like so the
00:55:20
pastors wouldn't, which again, that's
00:55:23
just an insane thing to put on a child.
00:55:25
Like if you read some of the purity
00:55:26
culture books, it's like, you know, make
00:55:30
sure your 12-year-old is wearing a a
00:55:33
chamisol tank top underneath her t-shirt
00:55:35
so when she raises her hands in worship,
00:55:36
right, you don't see a a slip of
00:55:39
midriff, which is tempting to men. I'm
00:55:42
like, men,
00:55:44
12year-old like
00:55:47
it just why are you normalizing this,
00:55:49
you [ __ ] These are female writers,
00:55:52
by the way, writing this stuff. And I'm
00:55:54
just like being me. And by the way, I
00:55:58
was autistic, like I said. So, I'm
00:56:00
taking all this in. Plus, I'm getting
00:56:02
told that um men have to be the
00:56:04
spiritual leaders this entire time while
00:56:06
also being told they think about sex
00:56:08
every seven seconds while also being
00:56:10
told they're like wild animals and
00:56:11
they're less, but they have to be in
00:56:13
charge. Also, if you're gonna date, you
00:56:15
should probably court and the guy has to
00:56:16
be the spiritual leader. So, what do you
00:56:18
think I did in this situation? And I'm
00:56:20
just like,
00:56:22
I'm I can't be with any of these
00:56:24
[ __ ] Like, first of all, I knew way
00:56:26
more about the Bible than them. Second
00:56:28
of all, all they did was think about
00:56:30
sex. Like, I couldn't I couldn't make it
00:56:33
work because it doesn't make sense the
00:56:34
way this is set up. And so, I was like,
00:56:37
well, I guess I'll never date then
00:56:39
because I cannot reconcile. They have to
00:56:42
be the spiritual leader of me. But then
00:56:45
they're just like these little hormone
00:56:46
freaks and that's all they think about.
00:56:48
like this is just setting up for
00:56:50
predators to get away with their crimes
00:56:53
against children and women. That's
00:56:56
really what's at the basis of all of
00:56:57
this if I can be perfectly honest.
00:56:59
Right. Yes.
00:57:00
>> And I think once you see that, you can
00:57:02
just blow right through the [ __ ] of
00:57:04
purity culture. And that's sort of where
00:57:07
my thesis ended up is I believe James
00:57:09
Dobson made materials
00:57:12
that not only appealed and catered to
00:57:14
white supremacists
00:57:16
but to serial child predators. And I
00:57:18
think he made it easier for them to get
00:57:20
away with their crimes. I actually just
00:57:22
recently um wrote about this but his
00:57:25
daughter D. Dobson, she wrote a lot for
00:57:29
girls um for Brio magazine. I don't know
00:57:32
if anybody listening remembers Brio
00:57:34
magazine. And that was the one for girls
00:57:36
as breakaway was for the boys. And um
00:57:39
she wrote this book of like devotionals
00:57:41
for teen girls. And in one of the
00:57:44
devotionals on forgiveness, she actually
00:57:46
says like,
00:57:48
you know, sometimes people do horrible
00:57:51
things to you, but since like Jesus has
00:57:53
already forgiven you for your sins,
00:57:55
right? There's nothing anybody could do
00:57:58
against you that's bigger than that. you
00:58:01
know, you've already sinned against God
00:58:03
so much that you must forgive those who
00:58:05
sin against you. And she even says, you
00:58:08
know, horrible things could have
00:58:09
happened to you. You might even have
00:58:11
been raped by someone close to you,
00:58:14
someone in your family. This is what she
00:58:16
says.
00:58:18
My advice to you is to give it to God
00:58:21
and let it go. And then she said, I
00:58:23
remember a pastor of mine told me one
00:58:26
time, you need to put that person who
00:58:28
hurt you in Jesus jail. let Jesus take
00:58:31
care of him. That's what she says. So,
00:58:33
this is the only time in any of these
00:58:35
materials that Dobson put out where I
00:58:37
have seen anyone mention the fact that
00:58:39
in Christian families, young girls are
00:58:42
being sexually abused by people in their
00:58:44
families, right? Including fathers,
00:58:46
including stepfathers. Um, so I was
00:58:48
like, whoa, I can't believe she actually
00:58:50
brought that up. But she brings it up to
00:58:53
say, you have to forgive and you have to
00:58:56
let it go. No, never does she say report
00:58:59
this abuse to anyone, right? It's just
00:59:02
give them to Jesus and he'll sort it
00:59:04
out. Which again, this is not what
00:59:07
parents are being told with their kids.
00:59:08
They don't put their kids in Jesus jail.
00:59:10
No, they spank the [ __ ] out of them till
00:59:13
they cry, right? Like that's for kids,
00:59:15
but for men who rape their kids, it's
00:59:19
you put them in Jesus. I'm so sorry to
00:59:21
get so intense, but this is the reality.
00:59:24
This is what they are promoting at its
00:59:27
core. I think what's so interesting
00:59:29
again about that is we see time one of
00:59:31
the things we hear time and time again
00:59:33
right the women who come forward on
00:59:35
Harvey Weinstein or Jeffrey Epstein well
00:59:38
why did they come home come come forward
00:59:39
sooner we have built a world in which
00:59:44
what we've been talking about there's
00:59:45
this indoctrination to forgive to forget
00:59:48
to put it behind you to all of these
00:59:49
things and sometimes it takes years
00:59:51
decades it it takes so long to get to
00:59:54
the point where you're finally like this
00:59:56
wasn't Right. And I actually need to
00:59:58
talk about it. Like I was mentioning
01:00:01
with like uh a homeschool dad who just
01:00:04
made me uncomfortable and not having the
01:00:06
body autonomy. And I know this is like
01:00:08
nothing compared to what women have been
01:00:11
through, but it's just it's my own
01:00:13
experience. As close as I can relate is
01:00:15
the fact of like it made me
01:00:16
uncomfortable. I didn't talk about it
01:00:17
for years. For a decade of my life, I
01:00:20
never talked about it because I was just
01:00:21
like
01:00:22
>> nobody's going to listen. It doesn't
01:00:24
really matter. He's in authority over
01:00:25
me. And then when I started talking
01:00:27
about it and everybody else started
01:00:28
being like, "Yeah, that's [ __ ]
01:00:30
weird." Guess what we figured out? That
01:00:32
family is a bunch of [ __ ] weirdos.
01:00:35
That's what they do. And while there's
01:00:38
not really anything we can totally do,
01:00:40
cuz nothing that was done was illegal,
01:00:42
unfortunately. Uh, at least to me, it
01:00:44
it's definitely one of those things that
01:00:46
as we continue to point it out and more
01:00:48
and more stories come out, it hopefully
01:00:50
raises enough awareness that it's like
01:00:52
other people who had something similar
01:00:54
happen to them feel empowered to come
01:00:56
forward earlier to say and then also we
01:00:59
can change the narrative in the future
01:01:01
uh to to kids to be like, "No, you
01:01:04
should talk about these things if this
01:01:06
happens." the consent piece like you
01:01:07
were talking about with your own kids of
01:01:09
teaching them consent and to tell to
01:01:12
tell us like if if something happens you
01:01:14
need to start talking about it. You need
01:01:15
to you know it we need to change the way
01:01:18
that we have viewed the world. It is set
01:01:20
up to hide it. It is set up to shame uh
01:01:23
people from from talking about it. And
01:01:26
it's time it's time to change it. And I
01:01:28
think it is I think it's happening. I
01:01:29
don't know how you feel about this. I
01:01:31
wake up every day recently and turn the
01:01:34
news on uh which I know is not good to
01:01:36
do first thing in the morning but and I
01:01:39
feel sometimes very sad and overwhelmed
01:01:41
because I'm like how can we recover from
01:01:43
this and then something sparks in me and
01:01:46
I go but we're talking about it and to
01:01:48
me that's a signal that we are headed in
01:01:52
the right direction because the more we
01:01:54
talk about it the more it comes to light
01:01:57
eventually enough people are going to
01:01:59
say this ain't the way to do this
01:02:01
anymore and we're going to change it and
01:02:03
we're going to shift the narrative. I
01:02:04
don't know if you feel that way, but I
01:02:05
wake up a little bit hopeful every day
01:02:07
that the narrative is going to shift and
01:02:09
the way that we're powdering our lives
01:02:10
and the way that we're we're dictating
01:02:13
things that's going away. It's it's just
01:02:15
going to take a very long time,
01:02:16
unfortunately.
01:02:17
>> Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of all over the
01:02:19
map when I think about it. I I think if
01:02:23
you know if I could instantly implement
01:02:26
one thing to make the world better, I
01:02:29
know exactly what I would say. I would
01:02:31
say stop hitting children. You know,
01:02:33
like let's try that and see what
01:02:37
happens. I'm pretty sure everything
01:02:39
would get better. I mean, Hitler was
01:02:41
beat within an inch of his life by his
01:02:43
stepdad and his teachers at school.
01:02:46
Trump, I don't even know. His parents
01:02:48
were pieces of [ __ ] You know what I
01:02:50
mean? Like this stuff messes up people.
01:02:52
And those people then try and
01:02:54
consolidate power. And a lot of the
01:02:56
people who voted for Trump were hit as
01:02:59
children by their caregivers and taught
01:03:01
that that was loving and taught that
01:03:03
obeying is the only way to stay safe and
01:03:05
to not get hurt and that there's always
01:03:07
the baddy out there that deserves
01:03:09
punishment and once those baddies get
01:03:11
punished, you'll feel better. Right? So
01:03:13
this is just authoritarianism. So that's
01:03:16
what what keeps me going with the strong
01:03:18
willed project is I personally can't
01:03:22
stop people from hurting their children
01:03:24
and replicating patriarchal white
01:03:26
supremacist values, you know, into
01:03:29
families. But I can be here for other
01:03:32
people who are rethinking their
01:03:34
childhoods and showing up for themselves
01:03:37
finally. Like I know it sounds cliche,
01:03:40
but reparing yourself is vital for these
01:03:43
times. I don't know how to get through
01:03:45
fascism without being very tender to my
01:03:47
younger self who still exists within me.
01:03:50
You know, like that's the other thing I
01:03:52
kind of want to tell people and this is
01:03:54
this was really hard for me, but like
01:03:57
everything that happened to you in
01:03:59
childhood actually happened and it does
01:04:02
have impacts. Educational neglect has
01:04:05
impacts. Corporal punishment on a
01:04:07
child's nervous system, it has impacts.
01:04:10
like developmental delays, if they were
01:04:13
intentional or not, which for many
01:04:15
homeschooling families, it's absolutely
01:04:17
was intentional to shield you from
01:04:20
information and experiences, right, that
01:04:22
would cause you to perhaps leave the
01:04:24
fold. Like that has long-term
01:04:26
consequences and being able to show up
01:04:29
and grieve for yourself and listen to
01:04:31
yourself because exactly what you said.
01:04:34
I want people to stop saying, "Why don't
01:04:35
victims come forward?" Because look at
01:04:38
Epstein. We haven't had a single arrest
01:04:42
in the United States. I don't think we
01:04:45
should ever ask that question again. And
01:04:47
instead, we can say, "How can we create
01:04:49
conditions where victims can speak up
01:04:51
and be believed?" Now, if you were
01:04:53
homeschooled like me, my parents, oh my
01:04:56
god, if I even said like, "Hey, I didn't
01:05:00
love being homeschooled. Like, some of
01:05:03
those textbooks were really not great."
01:05:06
like they would respond horribly, right?
01:05:09
Because their entire worldview and
01:05:10
ideology is connected to that. So they
01:05:13
can't even hear me when I say, "Man, I
01:05:16
really wish you guys had told me to go
01:05:18
to college. I came from that kind of
01:05:19
family." Just like, "You're a girl.
01:05:23
You don't need to go to college, right?
01:05:25
You're just going to serve God." So I
01:05:27
was never told to go to college. Nothing
01:05:28
like that. So if I even bring that up to
01:05:32
my parents, they can't hear that. How
01:05:34
much less are they going to hear about
01:05:37
abuse? You know what I mean? There's
01:05:38
just so many factors built into what we
01:05:42
are calling religious authoritarian
01:05:45
homes where the kids cannot be listened
01:05:48
to. And again, this starts in infancy
01:05:50
when we have sleep training. You know,
01:05:52
ignore your baby's crying to spanking
01:05:54
toddlers. Don't listen to your toddler
01:05:56
when they're crying and asking why
01:05:58
mommy's hurting them, why dad's, you
01:05:59
know, this refusing to listen to those
01:06:03
with less power is baked into the
01:06:05
system. And so the best way and the the
01:06:08
best way forward for any of us is to
01:06:10
listen to those who have less power. I
01:06:13
think in our society, children obviously
01:06:16
need to be listened to. I have a
01:06:17
15-year-old and a 10-year-old
01:06:21
and they are pissed at the grown-ups in
01:06:23
charge and the world they are
01:06:25
inheriting. Okay?
01:06:27
>> They just are because of course the kids
01:06:32
are pissed at what the adults are doing
01:06:35
and we need to listen to them. You know,
01:06:37
they want to just be able to live their
01:06:39
lives and instead they have to deal with
01:06:42
all of this [ __ ] So, I mean, that's
01:06:44
I guess that's my my takeaway piece is
01:06:46
listen to the kids in your life, listen
01:06:48
to the youth, and um I guess that's what
01:06:52
keeps me going forward. I was like, I do
01:06:53
think we can change if we start
01:06:56
prioritizing the rights of children,
01:06:58
>> which does not mean parental rights.
01:07:01
>> Yeah. I think in the homeschool world, I
01:07:04
know um I I bring this up almost every
01:07:06
episode at this point, but the Coalition
01:07:08
for Responsible Home Education is doing
01:07:10
some really cool things. they are almost
01:07:12
the opposite of HSLDA. Um, I think
01:07:16
that's the best way to describe it. Um,
01:07:18
but they continually put forth
01:07:21
>> legislation and and bills and they are
01:07:23
actively working to make the voices of
01:07:24
children more heard in the homeschool
01:07:26
world. And so I applaud them for what
01:07:28
they're doing. Go check them out. If you
01:07:30
haven't checked them out uh to the
01:07:31
audience because they're they're great.
01:07:33
Um, DL, is there anything we haven't
01:07:36
hit? I also want to give you an
01:07:38
opportunity to shout out the Strong
01:07:39
Wield Project, what you guys are doing
01:07:41
over there. And um but yeah, is there
01:07:43
anything we haven't touched on that's
01:07:45
important? And
01:07:45
>> there's so much to say about this. I
01:07:48
just think
01:07:50
now is the time to I mean, I'm going to
01:07:53
use a Bible college phrase here. Now is
01:07:55
the time to have a hermeneutic of
01:07:57
suspicion when it comes to white
01:08:00
Christian men.
01:08:02
And um just because our so much in our
01:08:05
culture has told us to obey them, that
01:08:07
they are wise, that they need to be
01:08:08
listened to, I think we can all take a
01:08:11
step back and be like, is that actually
01:08:12
true? Um that all deserves some
01:08:15
suspicion to me. Um if people are
01:08:18
interested, I've done a five-part series
01:08:20
on how purity culture is pedophile
01:08:22
culture. I where I go into some of this
01:08:24
stuff on the ME commission. We also talk
01:08:27
about like the hallmarks of how serial
01:08:29
child predators think. Um, and then
01:08:32
we're actually publishing a piece soon
01:08:34
by RL Stler where he talks about how to
01:08:37
keep kids kids safe in communities and
01:08:39
families. So, just some nice practical
01:08:41
advice. We're going to share the
01:08:42
information that James Dobson declined
01:08:45
to share with people because unlike him,
01:08:47
we actually do want to keep kids safe um
01:08:49
and not just pay lip service to it. You
01:08:52
can check that out. We also have a
01:08:53
podcast episode called Purity Culture is
01:08:55
Pedophile Culture. Um, that's kind of
01:08:58
like where my obsession has been. I'm
01:09:01
currently shifting into some new more
01:09:02
creative projects, but my partner Krisen
01:09:05
Mayfield is a therapist. And at
01:09:07
Strongworld, we're going to be focusing
01:09:09
more on the work he's doing, which is
01:09:11
going through year by year
01:09:13
developmentally how some of these
01:09:15
religious authoritarian parenting
01:09:17
methods impact the developmental stages
01:09:20
and uh some tips and tricks for like how
01:09:22
to heal if you experience some
01:09:24
developmental trauma um and
01:09:26
developmental delays because that's what
01:09:27
a lot of homeschoolers, you know, we
01:09:30
struggle with a little bit, some some
01:09:32
developmental delays. So, if if you're
01:09:34
interested in that kind of content, you
01:09:35
can check us out at Strongworld. We're
01:09:38
in the process of transitioning from
01:09:40
Substack to Ghost, but by the time this
01:09:42
goes out, you should just be able to
01:09:44
find Strongwilled at ghost and uh sign
01:09:46
up and follow along. And I just want to
01:09:48
say to anybody listening,
01:09:52
you are worth investing in. You are
01:09:55
worth taking the time to really learn
01:09:59
how to be in your body, to feel your
01:10:02
feelings, and to be a full human being.
01:10:05
It's never too late to do this work. You
01:10:08
have not missed out on the chance to be
01:10:10
who you really are. You don't have to
01:10:13
rush it. No matter what, the most
01:10:15
important thing we can do in our lives,
01:10:17
I think, is to learn who we are and
01:10:19
learn how to honor that and be true to
01:10:21
that. If you were raised like me, your
01:10:24
gender, your sexuality, your
01:10:26
preferences, all of that was severely
01:10:28
policed. Um, and we don't have to live
01:10:32
under that anymore. Nobody gets to be in
01:10:34
our minds except us. So, that's just
01:10:37
something I'll say as someone who was
01:10:39
homeschooled and and very very very
01:10:41
sheltered. I've really enjoyed enjoyed
01:10:43
being a late bloomer. I came out as
01:10:45
non-binary when I was 38. That's the
01:10:48
same year I actually left Christianity.
01:10:51
And uh my life has just gotten better
01:10:52
and better as I become familiar with who
01:10:56
I am, what I like, what I don't like.
01:10:59
And I don't know, it just it's never too
01:11:02
late. That's what I want to say.
01:11:04
>> I That's beautiful. That's a beautiful
01:11:05
sentiment because I I'm I feel the same
01:11:08
way of like it's never too late. Finding
01:11:11
who you are, getting in touch with your
01:11:13
body, your emotions, those kinds of
01:11:15
things. Like it is it is one of the best
01:11:17
parts of my life currently. And and I'm
01:11:21
not alone in it. I think that's what's
01:11:22
great and that's what makes me resonate
01:11:24
with content like what you're doing over
01:11:25
at Strong W and some other shows and and
01:11:27
things like that. It's just it's finding
01:11:30
other people who are on a different
01:11:32
journey but on kind of a similar path as
01:11:34
far same motivations of like wanting to
01:11:37
be a fullfledged human being.
01:11:39
>> Yeah.
01:11:39
>> In touch with everything. And so I
01:11:41
appreciate you for that. Links of course
01:11:43
for everything that DL is doing down
01:11:45
below. Check them out. Give it a listen.
01:11:48
give it a read. Go connect. It's It's
01:11:50
great. It's been a huge like
01:11:53
it's it's not always easy. Like we were
01:11:56
talking about today, like sometimes I'm
01:11:57
like I tell my wife, I'm like, "Hold my
01:11:59
hand." Um this is tough. Um but it, you
01:12:02
know, it's it's good and it's important.
01:12:04
And so thank you again for what you're
01:12:06
doing and thank you for coming on the
01:12:07
show and destroying Adventures and
01:12:09
Odyssey for us, but that's okay. Um
01:12:11
there are plenty of other things that
01:12:12
can take its take its place. Um
01:12:15
>> yeah, Veggie Tails is fine. Okay, I'll
01:12:17
just say that
01:12:18
>> I am not I have no interest in
01:12:21
>> dissing or interrogating Veggie Tales
01:12:23
because it's pretty great.
01:12:24
>> Yeah,
01:12:25
>> give people that.
01:12:27
>> Yeah, I Yeah, I think I'm kind of in the
01:12:29
same boat. I think that I think the
01:12:30
Veggie Tales is pretty good. Um, but
01:12:33
yeah, with that to my audience, if you
01:12:35
enjoyed, think about giving us a like,
01:12:37
dropping a comment down below, however
01:12:39
you're consuming this audio, video,
01:12:41
maybe you're reading the blog, I don't
01:12:42
know. Uh, whatever you're doing, leave a
01:12:45
like, leave a leave a subscribe,
01:12:47
comment, whatever. You know, all the
01:12:49
internet things. You know, you know how
01:12:50
to do. And until we see you next time,
01:12:53
peace.
