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another week another ex- homeschoolers
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Club I am your host Jacob Gooden and we
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are back to get to talk about The Good
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the Bad and the Ugly of homeschooling uh
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I'm so stuck today I have a brand new
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friend Whitney who is joining us she
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reached out to me via I don't remember
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if it was social media or email or
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something maybe YouTube uh but to talk
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about the show and we just connected and
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I was like I gotta have you on the show
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so Whitney first and foremost welcome to
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the ex homeschoolers Club thank you
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Jacob I'm really glad to be here let's
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just Dive Right In let let's share with
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the audience a little bit about your
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homeschool experience um you know kind
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of set the scene a little bit for us
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like what was family life like how many
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siblings were all of you guys
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homeschooled roughly like when were you
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homeschooled that kind of thing give us
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a little bit of a snapshot of what
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things look like sure I feel like my
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experience is maybe a little unique um
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so we were well I was born in the 80s
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and my brothers and I I'm the oldest I
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have two younger brothers um and my mom
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was an educator so she had a bachelor's
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and then a master's in education so was
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a teacher by
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profession um and she decided to
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homeschool all of us um but we did have
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a little bit of a I guess a a strange
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trajectory maybe so I'm seven years
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older than my youngest brother um and so
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I started first and then my my middle
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brother next and then by the time I got
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to seventh grade my mom decided to put
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us back into school partially she had
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some health issues and so we went I went
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back into school part day in seventh
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grade and then back into public school
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full-time starting in eighth grade
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through high school so my middle brother
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went back into school and fifth grade
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would have been and then my youngest
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brother was was so much younger that he
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essentially wasn't homeschooled he only
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really had like maybe a year of
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homeschool so the three of us have sort
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of very different uh experiences and
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very different
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um right memories of everything yeah so
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just it was a sort of a unique thing and
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then I think when we spoke before I I'd
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mentioned to you that my mom also did a
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kind of a strange thing where she put us
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into school for like a month or two at a
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time randomly and and so we ended up
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like even through Elementary School we'd
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go into school for like a month or two
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at a time randomly I'm sure that played
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like such a weird role too in just like
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socialization too because you're like
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you go from like not that homeschoolers
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have no friends but they tend to be a
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little bit more on the we're a little
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bit more antisocial to like all of a
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sudden I'm in a classroom with a bunch
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of kids who know each other who maybe
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have been going to school with each
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other for a number of years at this
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point and then like a few months later
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you're like pulled right back out so
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it's like that's also got to be kind of
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this weird ping pong back and forth
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effect as well oh it really was and I
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will say too that she never put us in
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the same school twice so it was like
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there was five different elementary
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schools I think in my hometown and so we
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ended up at different points in each of
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the elementary schools and so it was it
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was I again I'm not really sure like
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unfortunately my mom has passed so I
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can't ask her why and my dad doesn't
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remember um and so it's just yeah it's
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it was weird not gonna lie it was it was
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a strange experience and as a result I I
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did have friends but it wasn't like a
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core group of friends when I was young
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okay so your mom was an educator so when
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it comes to school at home did she have
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a pretty good like structure to what she
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was doing since she had that training of
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like okay hey we're gonna go through
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this curriculum and set the days up like
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this or was it was it just kind of a
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free-for-all it it was more of a
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free-for-all except for math um so math
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we had um we we did Saxon and I don't I
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think we we touched on this before it
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was a I don't know where the Saxon Math
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comes from exactly but seems to be a
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common curriculum that was used by
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homeschoolers um so we did saxs and math
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and then aside from that we didn't have
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any curriculum set for any of the other
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subjects um and so my mom was really
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into like uh I guess having us learn
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through doing things so for example I'm
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a musician and that was a big part of my
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childhood was was having me play music
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um my brothers to a lesser extent um and
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then we did a lot of things like um
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like knitting like we we did art classes
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so we do classes and things with other
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people but it was like you know an hour
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or two a week that kind of thing right
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so it was more experiential I guess
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except for math okay I don't know and
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she didn't teach us math it was more
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like um here's a math book and learn it
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right so yeah which sometimes doesn't
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work so well when you're like a little
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little kid like I by the time I by the
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time you're in high school it's a little
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bit you can kind of okay here's a
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textbook it walks me through everything
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and then you know I would go to my mom
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for like tutoring or my mom was not the
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math person so my dad was the tutor for
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math but you know what whatever subject
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it was just kind of go to parents for
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more of a tutoring approach as opposed
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to them being like I'm not going to give
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you a lecture at home like that doesn't
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make a whole lot of sense just read the
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textbook but uh but yeah I can imagine
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as a kid that would be kind of tricky
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and yeah is kind of one of those I feel
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like Saxon curriculum and ABCA
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curriculum are the two that a lot of
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people yeah and never used that one for
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whatever reason but yeah yeah I I
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recently chatted with my mom because I
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did a Becca for the first couple years
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and her reasoning behind it was the fact
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that it's kind it's structured to be in
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a classroom already and so it's kind of
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this if you don't know what you're doing
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it's kind of this easy just like plug
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andplay type of situation however
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homeschool kids are usually homeschooled
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for a reason and it tends to be we're a
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little bit different than most people uh
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our education style is different and so
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kind of recreating that school
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experience at home doesn't always work
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for everybody me included so it was just
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kind of like it just it never fit right
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with my family so she quickly
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transitioned out of that and by the time
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I was graduating it was like it was just
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this crazy mismatch of everything that
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worked together right so we had this
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math which was like math you see and
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then we had this English company over
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here we had this over here so it kind of
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this mix Mash of of a lot of different
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things um not everybody s you know Saxon
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and and ABCA can work for some people
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but it just didn't it didn't work for us
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yeah and I I think like for for me it
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worked okay because I was um I liked
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math and I sort of thought of it as like
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a puzzle um but my brother didn't work
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for him as well um so he and I you know
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had slightly different experiences um I
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think he needed maybe more one-on-one
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attention than he got and then for me
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for whatever reason I was able to do a
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little bit more by myself um yeah but I
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think like it showed when we got back
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into school like I was I was fine I was
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at the grade level I should have been um
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but my brother was struggling quite a
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bit more and he continued to struggle
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he's fine now but it it was definitely
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like there was a difference when we went
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back to school so you also talked about
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like experiential learning you brought
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up like knitting and other things like
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that were they like are we talking
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mostly like homech type of stuff or like
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are we also talking about like you know
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oh we go over with these friends and
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like do like a science experiment or
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like things like that a lot of it was
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home act centered
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um and and I mean to my mom's credit we
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all did it so like my brothers both had
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to go to knitting class too
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um but it was more like it was
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definitely more artsy focused I would
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say my mom was pretty into the Arts um
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yeah and then on the science side of
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things it was more I actually don't feel
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like we had any like formal Science
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Education we would have books and things
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that we could read um but we didn't have
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like a
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science or science things that we did
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together she was really into like
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history so we did a lot of like visiting
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museums and we did a lot of um uh you
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know going and uh visiting like like for
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example I'm trying to think of like
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national parks and things like that so
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we did a lot of like history related um
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but not not so much on the science thing
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which is ironic now because I am a
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Scientist yeah no I think that's
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interesting
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because I feel like it's one of two
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things I I interviewed someone on the
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show who they really had very little
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education as a kid their their mom was
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not was not a great educator and what
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was interesting was but the the way they
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found their passion was was they they
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like like the thing that they were
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interested in they didn't really get to
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do as much as a kid and so then when
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they actually like got to a point where
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they're like oh I can like make this
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decision they're like I'm really into
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this or I'm like you know and so they
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kind of were like okay like I'm I'm
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going all in you know and then um so I I
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think it's interesting how people
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different you know kind of find their
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passions it's like I also was big in
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music I I played instruments and that
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kind of thing and then I went to college
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for to get a music business degree so
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it's like but my passion was kind of all
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throughout my life um so I don't know
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it's kind of interesting to see how
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people when and how people kind of find
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that thing you know that they're like
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okay this is this is it you know yeah so
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I mean I I Thought I Loved music as a
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kid but then it turned out as I got
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older um when I was able to make more of
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a decision for myself about things that
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it wasn't my passion necessarily I think
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it was more my mom's passion but it was
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my it was like the focus of my child
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to be frank I started playing when I was
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five and um that was like the thing that
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I did I played violin I was in
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orchestras and you know all sorts of
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musical touring groups and things like
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this it was the
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focus and then when I got to college and
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was able to kind of make more of a
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decision about what I wanted to do it
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turns out I really really like being
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outside and playing in mud with plants
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yeah is there a specific moment that you
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remember kind of being like Oh I think
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science is the thing or was it just kind
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of a gradual like realization of like no
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I'm really into this I think it was a
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gradual realization but I did have a
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high school teacher that was very
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inspiring to me she was my physics
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teacher and I really really felt like I
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connected well with her and that was one
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of the first times that I I was like oh
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man I really like this like I don't know
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exactly what it is but it's like cool
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like I am like talking about how things
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move and you know how they interact with
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the with the world and like oh my gosh
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you can make things fly you know it was
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one of those like sort of oh wow and she
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was awesome she was a really great
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teacher and um and she was a woman too
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so I think for me that was kind of one
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of the first women I'd seen in my life
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that was a scientist or you know
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teaching science and so I connected
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really well with her and then it kind of
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sparked a you know a trajectory I
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actually thought I wanted to do
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Engineering in college um and then I
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changed my mind but but that's I think
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that's kind of what set me most on the
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path towards being like this is cool
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yeah and what area in particular like do
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you study in like the scientific raw I
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know it's just like vast plethora of
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everything yeah so I'm in plant Sciences
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I work uh specifically in agriculture
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but um I'm yeah I'm a plant scientist so
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I I get to go and do like you know you
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know look at plants and I I ID plants
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but I work in in a so in the context of
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a but I was in really into ecology in
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college that's kind of what I was like
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Wow people get paid to do this like hike
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around in the woods like look at plants
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I'm like oh wow this is so cool yeah so
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that that yeah College was when I really
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solidified like oh wow this is amazing I
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tell people all the time because being a
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podcast editor I'm like people pay me to
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learn stuff every single day and I love
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that yeah and so like I work on a vast
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different variety of shows from business
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to dating to relationships to now
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interviewing ex- homeschoolers and like
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all everything you can imagine in
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between right like therapy and all that
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kind of stuff
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and it's so funny because I just I
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sometimes I feel like I'm just robbing
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people because I'm like you're you're
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literally paying me to learn something
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that I would just do in my own free time
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yeah um and granted you know I'm
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actually editing their stuff but it's
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it's funny it's it it's so refreshing I
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think when you can kind of find
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something that you're like whoa like
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someone will pay me to do this thing
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that's like the craziest I think feeling
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I agree I agree yeah and I will say like
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for
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for my current career like I do think
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homeschooling in in the way that my mom
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did it actually maybe did help because
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um you know as a scientist my job is to
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kind of learn on my own right there's no
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there's no guide right I have to figure
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things out and and try things by myself
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so I think that that experience as a kid
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of like not having a super
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directed like learning environment
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actually did kind of help in for my
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current career so when you transitioned
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into like Junior High in high school for
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into public
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school the difference there I'm
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wondering because I mean that I don't
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know but like is there a difference of
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like are teachers kind of holding your
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hand a little bit more along the way to
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be like okay you have to do this reading
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and you have to get this done and that
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kind of a thing because the the way like
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the way my school was set up was like my
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parents would sit down with me at the
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beginning of the week or whatever and
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they would kind of be like okay hey
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here's what you need to accomplish by
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the end of the week we don't really care
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how you get there it's on you to get to
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this end
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point but I would imagine High School is
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probably like public high school is
00:14:05
probably not like that yeah you know
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there's very much more of a regimented
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like okay you're going to sit in the
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seat for x amount of hours and we're
00:14:12
going to study this for a certain amount
00:14:13
of time and that kind of a thing yeah
00:14:15
where it almost feels a little bit more
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like handholding but maybe I could be
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wrong I don't know your experience in
00:14:20
hes school is very different than mine
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because there was no structure like that
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even of like this is what you have to
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learn it was just like here's the day
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just like figure it out um yeah so it
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was like you know I might read the whole
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day and then the next day I might you
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know do math the whole day and then I
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might you know was very I guess if right
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I was yeah I've heard parents that are
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more structured than I guess yours was
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but mine was not at all so I was so far
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out in the other end of things I
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actually really liked when I went to
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school and was like bit more clear like
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okay this is what we're learning and
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here this is you know the the assignment
00:14:59
that you have right this paper um about
00:15:02
this particular thing so for me but I I
00:15:05
did have like a really high
00:15:07
perfectionist streak so I academically I
00:15:10
I felt this need to like always get
00:15:11
really high grades and it was very
00:15:13
stressful for me so yeah and I don't
00:15:16
think my brother felt the same way about
00:15:17
it um but yeah for me I was like I have
00:15:19
to do the best if be the best and so um
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it was a little bit more anxiety
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inducing I guess than it probably had
00:15:26
been in the past I felt I felt
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F I had to earn the grades I guess if
00:15:31
that makes sense yeah yeah yeah I think
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that's also just like you know
00:15:37
firstborn yeah that could we kind of
00:15:38
tend to I'm also a firstborn kid so I
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think it also we tend to be that kind of
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like you know we got to please Mom and
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Dad we gota like we gotta try our best
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you
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know proba there's an expectation yeah
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um and then the younger kids tend to
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like get it easier even if they're tough
00:15:56
on themselves to be like Oh I'm going to
00:15:57
be an a perfect student or whatever but
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yeah you know I think they they
00:16:02
sometimes catch a break that where where
00:16:03
we didn't feel like I don't know I there
00:16:05
were certain things that my parents it's
00:16:07
talking now to my parents they go they
00:16:10
go yeah we don't know why you held
00:16:12
yourself to the standard because we
00:16:13
would you know tell you like you know
00:16:15
it's okay to get a B it's okay to like
00:16:17
do this thing and it's like no no no no
00:16:19
no like I have to be A+ student I have
00:16:22
to be this thing and it's like well you
00:16:23
know sometimes it's okay um that's not
00:16:26
everyone's parents experence experience
00:16:28
but yeah I get that I understand your
00:16:30
feeling of like I I gotta earn it I
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gotta really like you know if I don't
00:16:34
get an A the world collapses you know
00:16:37
yeah and I do think that from my mom at
00:16:39
least there was that expectation that I
00:16:41
do really well I don't know I it's like
00:16:44
my dad wasn't as involved and so even to
00:16:47
this day like when we talk about things
00:16:49
that he doesn't remember things in the
00:16:50
same way that I do or he won't remember
00:16:52
exactly like you know how things went
00:16:56
or and and so I don't feel like he was
00:16:59
as involved but my mom certainly had
00:17:01
that um that expectation on me
00:17:03
particularly yeah yeah there was a bit
00:17:06
of a gender difference and how my mom
00:17:08
treated us and so there was a different
00:17:10
expectation for me than for my brothers
00:17:12
with a lot of
00:17:13
things yeah it did you grow up in like a
00:17:17
in a religious household as well where
00:17:19
that was also cuz I
00:17:21
know sometimes religion also plays a
00:17:24
role in that like that gender pushing
00:17:26
that gender role stereotype like forward
00:17:28
in lot of cases yeah so there was
00:17:31
definitely um like I I wouldn't say it
00:17:34
was you know cult-like or anything um
00:17:37
but my mom was and again this was coming
00:17:40
primarily from my mom um but she was
00:17:42
super into church and things when we
00:17:44
were little um and then it kind of
00:17:48
persisted like I I had like a um purity
00:17:52
ring like that was but it was only me
00:17:54
not my brothers I was only one um and
00:17:57
then like you know there was an
00:17:59
expectation that I wouldn't date or
00:18:00
wouldn't uh you know have a boyfriend or
00:18:02
whatever until I was I think you know an
00:18:05
adult um so there were there was that
00:18:09
and it was very very gender specific in
00:18:12
that way yeah we we did go to church um
00:18:16
you know I went to Vacation Bible School
00:18:18
and stuff like that um it was uh
00:18:22
primarily Baptist Focus which I don't
00:18:23
think it was very like culty but I guess
00:18:26
um I don't know at the time I do
00:18:29
remember there was also like you know a
00:18:31
lot of uh pressure maybe publicly from
00:18:34
like Christina agair and Britney Spears
00:18:35
I remember a lot of like that Purity
00:18:37
culture talk was happening um you know
00:18:40
maybe they changed as they got older but
00:18:41
it was happening a lot when I was in
00:18:43
like middle school and from what I can
00:18:45
remember I don't want to say Purity
00:18:47
culture doesn't still exist I almost
00:18:50
feel like because I was that age in like
00:18:53
the
00:18:54
20 10s I mean I started High School in
00:18:58
2010
00:18:59
um and
00:19:00
so but yeah even a couple years before
00:19:03
that Purity culture was very much still
00:19:05
very real like I didn't have a purity
00:19:07
ring I I had friends who did I I don't
00:19:10
know I I didn't have parents who pushed
00:19:11
that on me the the Purity stuff was
00:19:13
pushed on me I didn't date in high
00:19:15
school that kind of a thing
00:19:18
um it's interes I've been I've been
00:19:21
unpacking a lot more of it more recently
00:19:24
and uh I shout out to one of the
00:19:26
listeners of the show uh m is Annie slag
00:19:29
boom uh she sent me a book called uh
00:19:31
when religion hurts you and I've just
00:19:35
been I've been actively listening to it
00:19:37
and it's been kind of breaking down
00:19:39
these thoughts of like because like you
00:19:41
I don't I didn't view I don't view my
00:19:43
church experience at a very like
00:19:45
cult-like way I think mostly because
00:19:47
when you when you think about a cult you
00:19:49
think about a lot of times like
00:19:51
Jonestown or you think
00:19:53
about Waco Texas right you think about
00:19:55
these like insane Cults where it's like
00:19:57
they're very there's very strict rules
00:20:00
there's very like you go outside of it
00:20:01
you get you know yeah kicked off the
00:20:03
scene Scientology you know that kind of
00:20:05
thing and so I think we tend to go to
00:20:08
those places and then
00:20:10
ignore sometimes what could be argued as
00:20:12
cult-like Behavior inside of okay the
00:20:14
things we grew up in um so anyway and
00:20:18
everyone's experience is different but
00:20:19
this is just I don't know it's been
00:20:21
helping me kind of unpack some of these
00:20:23
things of like Purity culture and how
00:20:25
was Purity culture like a manipul
00:20:28
Behavior to get kids to do to act and be
00:20:31
a certain way which was really I don't
00:20:33
blame people for being like I don't want
00:20:34
my kid to have sex I don't want my kid
00:20:36
to get in high school like I don't blame
00:20:38
people for feeling that way um but when
00:20:41
you just replace all of like sex
00:20:44
education with like don't have sex yeah
00:20:48
there can be some problems with that uh
00:20:51
down the line so well it's strange
00:20:53
because my my mom like there was a bit
00:20:55
of a dichotomy with her um so like she
00:20:58
was actually pretty open about like sex
00:21:01
education and stuff like that I grew up
00:21:03
in southern Oregon and it's fairly
00:21:05
liberal um and so it was like a weird
00:21:09
like I don't know that's I in our
00:21:13
current state I always tell people like
00:21:15
I think if you go far enough left and
00:21:16
far enough right they kind of come back
00:21:17
and they meet right and so and I think
00:21:19
my childhood like encompasses that so
00:21:22
like my mom was very liberal like we
00:21:23
learned all about sex and sex education
00:21:26
when I was young um my brother and I
00:21:29
were were all born at home for example
00:21:31
so like I was there for my brother's
00:21:32
birth um I guess we were we would have
00:21:35
been more like hippies I guess a little
00:21:37
bit along that side of things um but
00:21:40
then yeah and then then I got a purity
00:21:42
ring so it's just like this weird like I
00:21:45
don't it was so confusing as a kid I'll
00:21:47
be honest it was very confusing um very
00:21:51
confusing yeah I had like a book like
00:21:52
our bodies ourselves I don't know if
00:21:53
you've read that book but like so I've
00:21:55
heard of it before yeah so it was like
00:21:58
and my friends and their parents were
00:21:59
very liberal and and yeah so it's was
00:22:01
just this
00:22:03
weird very weird dichotomy that my mom
00:22:05
was trying to I feel like hold both
00:22:07
sides at the same time and it's was like
00:22:09
how are you doing this it didn't it
00:22:11
didn't manifest very well it made me
00:22:13
super confused yeah yeah no I think
00:22:17
that's the thing I I like I work with
00:22:19
these ladies and they're wonderful
00:22:20
ladies and they're they're currently
00:22:22
writing a book that's kind of hopefully
00:22:24
going to be the way they pitched it to
00:22:27
me was they were like it's like the
00:22:28
playbook for like what you kind of like
00:22:30
wish your parents had known and what
00:22:32
they would have said kind of a thing and
00:22:35
their whole show and the reason I work
00:22:37
with them their podcast is they
00:22:38
interview uh 20year olds primarily about
00:22:41
like their experience with sex and
00:22:43
relationships and all these things and
00:22:45
they're trained therapists and and uh
00:22:48
and a sex expert and so it's interesting
00:22:51
to hear them be able to talk to these
00:22:53
young people um about just like and and
00:22:57
ask them like what do you wish you would
00:22:59
have known right what do you wish Mom
00:23:01
and Dad would have said or done and and
00:23:03
things like that and
00:23:04
so hopefully I think that's going to be
00:23:06
really helpful for a lot of people
00:23:07
because I think I think parents to your
00:23:09
point I think parents they kind of like
00:23:12
they have some idea of like oh I want to
00:23:14
educate my kid and this but maybe
00:23:15
sometimes they don't know how or they
00:23:16
don't know like the proper ways to
00:23:18
communicate it and so yeah you end up
00:23:19
with these weird funky feelings and
00:23:21
sometimes things Circle back around you
00:23:24
just end up with these weird points and
00:23:26
and then now as adults we sit there and
00:23:28
we go
00:23:29
what the heck were you thinking you know
00:23:31
like what were you doing um but then
00:23:34
again you know the next generation will
00:23:36
look back at us and be like what what
00:23:38
were you doing it will just continue on
00:23:41
uh for all of time but uh but hopefully
00:23:43
it just gets progressively better over
00:23:45
time I hope so we can hope that's funny
00:23:49
so I do want to talk about to not to
00:23:53
totally go off the rails but like yeah
00:23:57
when when you did kind kind of like
00:23:58
leave homeschooling and whether it was
00:24:01
high school or college but like yeah
00:24:03
catching up on like pop culture and like
00:24:06
getting like were
00:24:08
you some homeschooling has the you know
00:24:11
the the myth or the title of also being
00:24:13
like the sheltered environment right
00:24:15
where it's like oh yeah we don't we
00:24:16
don't do that we don't watch that you
00:24:18
already brought up Christine angular
00:24:20
Britney Spears but like you know
00:24:24
was was there a learning curve when you
00:24:26
kind of exited that to be like okay I
00:24:28
got play ketchup a little bit with
00:24:29
everybody else because I missed these
00:24:31
cultural moments for sure well so we
00:24:34
didn't have a TV as a kid it was banned
00:24:36
in our house um we would watch like
00:24:39
movies sometimes but they had to be like
00:24:41
preapproved movies the weird thing was
00:24:43
though that we did get a computer so I
00:24:45
was one of the first households that I
00:24:47
knew of that had a computer and so again
00:24:50
it was this like strange dichotomy right
00:24:52
so like no TV but computer and so my
00:24:56
brother and I my brother's actually in
00:24:58
Tech both of them are in Tech and I
00:25:00
think part of the reason was because we
00:25:01
had a computer kind of before a lot of
00:25:03
other families did um and so yeah we
00:25:06
spent a lot of time playing games on the
00:25:08
computer getting on the Internet doing
00:25:10
stuff probably in some cases that we
00:25:11
shouldn't have been doing um so it's
00:25:14
yeah it was a strange
00:25:16
like um so in terms of like movies and
00:25:19
TV and stuff I was totally not up on
00:25:23
anything when I got back to school um
00:25:26
music I I think I got exposed to a lot
00:25:29
through my peers as a kid it was a lot
00:25:32
of classical music and then you know my
00:25:33
parents music that they listened to um
00:25:37
so I remember like the first uh time I
00:25:41
heard the Beasty Boys I was like what is
00:25:43
this right and so then I started like
00:25:46
you know I would like sadly I would
00:25:48
sneak music right so I was like one of
00:25:50
my big sneaking things which is I'm not
00:25:52
saying it's a great thing but one of my
00:25:54
big sneaking things was listening to
00:25:56
like bad music quote unquote so BC
00:25:58
Sublime I I think the first album I
00:26:00
bought was Lauren Hill Miss education of
00:26:04
Lauren Hill so just like and then
00:26:05
trading music back and forth with my
00:26:07
friends like because that was back in
00:26:09
the day when we could do like mixtapes
00:26:10
and CVS and things like that right so a
00:26:13
lot of
00:26:14
mixtapes yeah so that was my bad my bad
00:26:17
thing was was listening to music I would
00:26:19
like go outside and like put on my
00:26:20
Walkman and listen to music I love that
00:26:24
so much that's that's amazing I I feel
00:26:27
like my parents
00:26:30
definitely they sheltered and didn't
00:26:32
Shelter Me In The Music Arena I mean I
00:26:34
was I played guitar so and I wanted to
00:26:36
play like I I we went to we had these
00:26:39
people in our Lives who were kind of
00:26:40
like my adopted grandparents they were
00:26:42
just like they were the grandparents who
00:26:43
lived closer than the actual
00:26:44
grandparents lived basically it's how it
00:26:46
felt um and so but uh Tom he he showed
00:26:52
me like Eric Clapton for the first time
00:26:54
one time when I was over and I just fell
00:26:55
in love with it so I was like okay no
00:26:58
most people you know air CLT not that
00:27:00
bad right I mean it's it's classic rock
00:27:03
um you know maybe it is bad um but but
00:27:07
it it sparked this like interest in me
00:27:10
to kind of pursue that and I had a music
00:27:11
teacher who was really pushing me to be
00:27:13
like okay you like listen to anything
00:27:14
and everything because like you will
00:27:16
hear influences in anything and
00:27:18
everything you listen to and it could
00:27:20
impact you as a as a musician right and
00:27:22
so thankfully I had parents who were
00:27:23
like a little bit more lenient where I
00:27:25
was like okay I I remember buying John
00:27:27
May
00:27:28
uh room for squares and being like Oh my
00:27:30
gosh and then like getting every John
00:27:32
Mar album after that okay you know but
00:27:35
there was definitely also this like you
00:27:37
know Lady Gaga is kind of On The Fringe
00:27:39
of like maybe she's more of a bad artist
00:27:42
and like you know uh Pitbull is like a
00:27:45
little bit more like a bad you know
00:27:47
stuff like that so it's like that guilty
00:27:49
pleasure music that I would listen to
00:27:51
quietly but it wasn't I wasn't blasting
00:27:54
it out loud um now I don't care now I'm
00:27:57
like this listen to Mom and Dad um
00:27:59
exactly but yeah but it took a minute to
00:28:03
like I don't know like when I got to
00:28:05
college I think is where I really like I
00:28:07
flipped the script of like I was like
00:28:08
I'm gonna listen to anything and
00:28:09
everything and Spotify was like really
00:28:11
fresh at that point too and Pandora was
00:28:13
massive so it was like it was a lot I
00:28:16
think easier also to just like access
00:28:19
music in any genre you wanted to and
00:28:21
find additional stuff but it's funny you
00:28:23
brought up mixtapes I do remember when I
00:28:25
was a kid swapping CDs with my friends
00:28:27
most of the time it was just like
00:28:29
Christian music back and forth um but
00:28:31
when we were in high school we did for a
00:28:33
while we all bought MP3 players and we
00:28:36
would load stuff onto them and then we
00:28:38
would just swap MP3 players that was
00:28:40
like our way of changing uh
00:28:43
mixtapes so yeah but that's interes it's
00:28:48
funny because it's crazy too because you
00:28:51
know you're more of a product of the
00:28:53
'90s I'm a product of the 2000s
00:28:56
primarily and so it's interesting that
00:28:58
even within that it's a decade of time
00:29:01
but like there's still just a lot of the
00:29:04
similarities in there of like yeah well
00:29:06
this is what parents were doing and this
00:29:08
is what was like good and not good and
00:29:09
you know um I know I I put a note down
00:29:13
because I when we chatted last time uh
00:29:15
you brought up like Adventures in
00:29:16
Odyssey which was like Audio Drama and
00:29:18
how that was really big in your house
00:29:20
same for me it was like a massive thing
00:29:22
in my house and that and Veggie Tales it
00:29:23
was like that's the clean stuff that's
00:29:26
the stuff the kids can listen to any
00:29:27
time
00:29:28
you know yeah that actually yeah I
00:29:30
forgot about that we listen to
00:29:31
adventures and odyssey like all the time
00:29:33
because we didn't have TV access yeah I
00:29:37
I guess my mom would let us watch PBS
00:29:39
but that was like the one channel yeah
00:29:41
yeah PBS and then adventures and Aussie
00:29:44
very similar I didn't have cable for the
00:29:46
longest time we had like a DVD player at
00:29:48
a VHS and yeah just you know um yeah so
00:29:53
I I feel you I I I feel you on a lot of
00:29:55
these things because it's like I
00:29:58
and it was just normal I think I look
00:30:00
back on it and I go well that was just
00:30:01
normal and then I hear I meet new people
00:30:03
and they're like oh I grew up watching
00:30:05
cable and I'm like what is that right
00:30:08
exactly yeah and I do feel like there
00:30:10
was like gaps when I when I went back to
00:30:13
high school I did feel like sort of I
00:30:14
think you asked me this before but like
00:30:16
I felt kind of disconnected in a way
00:30:18
because there were like large chunks of
00:30:21
things that I just didn't know about and
00:30:23
then I did the same thing you did once I
00:30:24
got to college is I went Bonkers with
00:30:26
music I you know downloaded Napster
00:30:29
which I know was illegal but but yeah we
00:30:31
were all doing it at the time right so I
00:30:33
had Napster and I was downloading you
00:30:34
know as much music as I could I was like
00:30:36
part of some CD Club where I was you
00:30:38
know buying a dollar CDs so I got really
00:30:40
into just learning as much as I could
00:30:42
about well music primarily because that
00:30:45
was my thing right um I still have huge
00:30:48
gaps in movies so people will be like
00:30:49
did you watch blah blah blah movie and
00:30:51
I'm like
00:30:52
nope like from the0 80s through like
00:30:56
2000 pretty much no
00:30:58
I'll try to go back and watch some stuff
00:31:00
now but it's like you know it's not as
00:31:02
cool as it was I guess yeah it doesn't
00:31:05
hit the same it's not gonna have the
00:31:06
same Nostalgia really I feel yeah that
00:31:09
there's those few movies for me too
00:31:11
where I'm just like I I missed it I
00:31:12
missed the cultural moment past it now
00:31:15
you know yeah it is what it is it yeah
00:31:19
and then and then of course I went to
00:31:20
college and then I I think I didn't I
00:31:22
don't know if I mentioned this to you
00:31:23
before but I joined the Peace Corp after
00:31:25
that so I have and during the Peace Corp
00:31:27
I was also like completely disconnected
00:31:29
from M or like electricity so I didn't
00:31:32
have any like access to anything so
00:31:34
essentially for me like if you ask me
00:31:37
there's like a small chunk of time
00:31:38
between like 2000 and 2004 but like from
00:31:42
up to like 20078 I'm just like a
00:31:47
cultural wow so people are like did you
00:31:49
watch that movie and I'm like
00:31:51
nope remember miss that one yeah yeah so
00:31:55
I'm interested to know too like the
00:31:58
transition from like you you mentioned
00:32:00
earlier that like well a lot of kids
00:32:02
were maybe growing up with like their
00:32:03
core friend group you didn't really have
00:32:05
that core friend group partly because
00:32:07
you were just ping ponging back and
00:32:09
forth between home school and public
00:32:11
school and and you know a few months
00:32:13
here and a few months there and all this
00:32:14
different
00:32:15
thing was there ever a point or or was
00:32:20
it difficult then when you kind of like
00:32:22
okay now I'm in a more stable place of
00:32:24
like okay I'm in high school
00:32:26
consistently like in public school now
00:32:28
I'm in college where you were like okay
00:32:32
now I can build friendships finally or
00:32:35
or had that kind of hurt your
00:32:37
socialization skills so bad that it was
00:32:39
like just really difficult so I think I
00:32:42
I was I did make friends in high school
00:32:44
um but I was part of like I would say
00:32:47
you know I wasn't part of the cool Group
00:32:49
by any means um I was you know sort of
00:32:52
with The Artsy kids I guess which which
00:32:54
was fine it was fine to be part of that
00:32:56
group I don't like you know
00:32:58
it was a fine group of friends but I but
00:33:00
I don't feel like I have I only have
00:33:04
like maybe two people from my childhood
00:33:06
that I'm still like regularly in contact
00:33:09
with and then in college I went far away
00:33:13
so I didn't have any friends that like
00:33:14
transitioned with me from high school to
00:33:16
college um and I did build friends or
00:33:19
friendships but I I think I do have a
00:33:22
hard time like maintaining friendships
00:33:23
and I don't know if that's you know
00:33:26
partially reflection of homeschool I I'm
00:33:28
not sure
00:33:30
um could just be also you know childhood
00:33:33
stuff who knows yeah but um but yeah I
00:33:36
do have a harder time like I would say
00:33:38
maintaining friendships than I I have a
00:33:40
lot of I have a lot of people that I
00:33:42
know but not necessarily a lot of like
00:33:44
close friendships I I feel that I think
00:33:47
I also moved far away for school and
00:33:49
like my the first real like friend I
00:33:53
made in college was honestly because we
00:33:55
were waiting in line at some party to
00:33:58
get like a root beer float and I and I
00:34:00
was you know day two of being at school
00:34:03
I know nobody I was like at some point I
00:34:04
just have to start like introducing
00:34:06
myself to people and I said okay
00:34:08
whoever's behind me right now I'm just
00:34:09
gonna turn around and say hello and I
00:34:11
did it and we became good friends in
00:34:13
college and that friendship hasn't I
00:34:16
wouldn't say we're not not friends but
00:34:18
we it's definitely drifted a little bit
00:34:20
so I I also relate to you on that kind
00:34:22
of like the maintaining friendships is
00:34:24
very hard and I think that's also just
00:34:26
it's hard to have adult friends I think
00:34:28
that's reality for a lot of
00:34:31
people I will say though like in
00:34:33
comparison so my brothers have had more
00:34:37
lifelong friends than I have like people
00:34:39
that they both of them for example
00:34:41
married people from high school and so
00:34:43
they they and they have like friends
00:34:45
that they've known since the time they
00:34:46
were pretty little that they're still
00:34:48
friends with and they hang out with on a
00:34:50
regular basis even as adults um so I do
00:34:54
think that like not having Elementary
00:34:57
School
00:34:58
friendships did do some amount
00:35:01
of damage I guess to my like ability to
00:35:05
make like life long friends I do feel
00:35:07
that way so in those early years like of
00:35:11
homeschool where it was yeah you're at
00:35:12
home most of the time you have you you
00:35:15
brought up you had some kind of like
00:35:16
outside classes with other kids
00:35:18
potentially that were more experiential
00:35:20
but like was it primarily just like were
00:35:23
at
00:35:24
home kind of cut off from the world or
00:35:27
was there was there opportunities to
00:35:29
have
00:35:31
friends so there were and there weren't
00:35:33
like so my mom was a friendly person so
00:35:36
we did have like friends that she made
00:35:39
that would be like family friends that
00:35:41
we'd all hang out with together um and
00:35:44
then I had like a couple of like oneoff
00:35:46
friends that that I made through you
00:35:49
know classes or things that um you know
00:35:53
things that we were doing um but weirdly
00:35:55
like a lot of the experiential stuff
00:35:57
wasn't with other homeschool kids I
00:35:58
think there's more of that now than
00:36:00
there was when I was young but like we
00:36:02
didn't have like a core group of
00:36:04
homeschool people that we hung out with
00:36:06
right and so there wasn't like this
00:36:08
continual like oh this is our group that
00:36:10
we get together and do things with um my
00:36:13
mom did tutor kids like periodically in
00:36:16
our home so we'd have like an extra kid
00:36:18
for a while that she would have
00:36:20
homeschooling with us which was kind of
00:36:22
weird as well um yeah so that was yeah
00:36:27
so I don't
00:36:28
know I feel like there could have been
00:36:31
ways that we could have done better with
00:36:33
the socialization part if she tried
00:36:35
harder but I I think you know she had
00:36:38
her own stuff going on and her own like
00:36:41
issues from her childhood that she was
00:36:42
dealing with and I I think that like
00:36:45
reflected in our upbringing and maybe
00:36:48
like I I don't think like her making the
00:36:52
choice to homeschool maybe was was
00:36:54
necessarily in our best interest it was
00:36:56
more something that she felt like she
00:36:58
wanted to do and so I kind of think
00:37:01
about that a lot when I'm like why are
00:37:02
people homeschooling are they
00:37:03
homeschooling because of themselves or
00:37:05
because they truly think that it's
00:37:06
better for their kids so in my mom's
00:37:08
case I think it was stemming more from
00:37:11
her not from us if that makes sense no
00:37:15
that does that does make sense well I
00:37:16
think it's interesting because like you
00:37:18
said you have two brothers they're both
00:37:19
younger so one sounds like he's about
00:37:21
three years younger than a sevene age
00:37:24
Gap and so their experiences are just
00:37:27
vastly different where it's like you had
00:37:30
a good 8ish years of your life where
00:37:33
it's
00:37:34
like I I was homeschooled and then the
00:37:36
next brother it's only five and the next
00:37:38
brother it's not even that and so their
00:37:40
experiences I'm sure are just vastly
00:37:44
different vastly you know because of the
00:37:46
fact that it's just like you didn't you
00:37:48
didn't ride the wave the whole time I
00:37:50
rode the wave right yeah exactly you
00:37:53
know uh and so for you I yeah and and
00:37:57
that's that's sometimes the struggle of
00:37:59
being the oldest kid right is like at
00:38:01
the end of the day we usually get get P
00:38:03
kids yeah yeah exactly um yeah I I feel
00:38:08
that so much sometimes with my mom but
00:38:11
um that's funny but yeah so I think
00:38:13
that's interesting because I'm sure
00:38:15
that's now shaped because you're you're
00:38:16
a parent now and that's shaped maybe how
00:38:20
you've chosen to like raise your kids
00:38:21
and like um you know homeschool not
00:38:24
homeschool like um yeah you know you
00:38:27
shared with me before you're not
00:38:28
homeschooling your kids but like you
00:38:30
know did some of that has has your past
00:38:33
I guess kind of influenced maybe how you
00:38:35
think about it today yeah definitely I
00:38:40
so I I made a choice not to homeschool
00:38:42
purposefully um
00:38:45
I not to say that any parent can't hom
00:38:48
school but even me like I you know and I
00:38:51
have a PhD and I don't feel qualified to
00:38:54
to homeschool my children and the reason
00:38:57
is because like I don't have early
00:38:59
childhood education training at all I
00:39:00
don't and I it's really hard to be a
00:39:02
parent um not going to lie like you're
00:39:04
kind of like thrown into this thing that
00:39:06
you don't really know that much about
00:39:08
right and you're like here go like huh
00:39:10
like there's no classes I mean some
00:39:12
people take classes but and read books
00:39:14
but a lot of people don't right and so
00:39:15
it's just kind of like you go off of
00:39:17
what your parents did and you hope for
00:39:19
the best right um right and not to say
00:39:23
that I think public school is always
00:39:24
like the best uh place for every child
00:39:27
but um the things that I really like
00:39:30
about it for my kids are that there are
00:39:32
opportunities that I can't provide for
00:39:34
them like things that I don't know about
00:39:36
or things that I you know can't get them
00:39:40
in in a normal setting like my son loves
00:39:42
sports and and I didn't get really get
00:39:45
to do Sports as a kid there were you
00:39:46
know City leagues and stuff but that's
00:39:49
his thing he loves it it's his dream to
00:39:52
be you know and he's really good at it
00:39:54
and as a result of being in school he's
00:39:56
been able to pursue you know whatever
00:39:58
sport he wanted to do which is something
00:40:00
that I would have had a hard time
00:40:01
providing for him um and then my
00:40:04
daughter is more artsy and so I you know
00:40:07
she really loves like all sort of Arts
00:40:10
um so I will say that's one of the
00:40:12
things that I feel like you know public
00:40:14
school's gone away from a bit is is
00:40:16
offering the Arts as much um yeah but
00:40:19
but I was able to get them into a school
00:40:20
that has choir and and music and art
00:40:24
classes and she's done really well um
00:40:27
and then like both of them have very
00:40:30
good friends that they have known for a
00:40:32
very long time and teachers that they've
00:40:34
really connected to and I think that you
00:40:36
know some people get afraid of their
00:40:38
kids connecting to other adults but I
00:40:40
frankly think it's a good thing to have
00:40:42
good adult connections that are outside
00:40:44
of your family that's something that I
00:40:46
really value like the some of the best
00:40:48
mentors I've ever had in my life have
00:40:50
been teachers right people that I that
00:40:52
taught me that were not my parents not
00:40:54
my relatives um that inspired me in some
00:40:58
way like the reason I joined the Peace
00:40:59
Corp was I had a middle school teacher
00:41:01
in seventh grade that joined the Peace
00:41:02
Corp and she talked about it all the
00:41:04
time and it was life-changing for her
00:41:06
and it stuck in my head and right and so
00:41:09
like I I really strongly believe that
00:41:13
like that whole village mentality you
00:41:15
know it takes a village to raise a child
00:41:17
I really really believe in that and I
00:41:19
think that having a village of good
00:41:21
people in your kids lives can be really
00:41:23
really valuable to them in a way that's
00:41:25
hard to recreate like with just a parent
00:41:27
or two parents I tell people I think my
00:41:30
homeschool experience was it's it's kind
00:41:32
of different because I had a lot of that
00:41:35
I feel like I had I was part of big
00:41:38
homeschool communities homeschool
00:41:40
classes I had outside teachers and
00:41:44
influences in my life and so I have
00:41:48
those people like you're talking about
00:41:49
and that you want to provide for your
00:41:50
kids and so I think the
00:41:53
difference it made a difference I think
00:41:55
and and it didn't I think always feel
00:41:59
like oh well I'm I'm a homeschool kid it
00:42:02
felt much more just sometimes
00:42:04
like I I have some of those same
00:42:06
influences I talked to my friends who
00:42:08
went to public school and they're like
00:42:09
oh I was really close with this guidance
00:42:11
counselor or this professor or whatever
00:42:12
and it's like oh well I had that too
00:42:14
like I was really close with my music
00:42:16
teacher um you know and things like that
00:42:19
and so it's it's like
00:42:21
those interactions and like you said I
00:42:23
think being able to as a kid have those
00:42:26
is especially being able to like talk
00:42:29
with adults and um you know hold
00:42:32
conversation and learn from adults is is
00:42:34
really important and as a parent you
00:42:37
know it's like I'm not a parent so I
00:42:39
mean but this is an outside perspective
00:42:41
but I see the most benefit from the
00:42:43
parents who regardless
00:42:46
of where their kid goes to school how
00:42:49
they educate they are just involved in
00:42:51
their kids's life and want to know and
00:42:53
they want the best for their kid and
00:42:55
they push for whatever that is so you
00:42:57
know that I think goes so much further
00:43:00
than like homeschool don't homeschool
00:43:02
it's like well you can really screw up
00:43:04
either one of those true it's more about
00:43:06
you being a good parent or not uh at the
00:43:09
end of the day is the way that's how I
00:43:10
feel personally um but yeah so I applaud
00:43:15
you um because I mean there's you know
00:43:18
there's also just like a billion in One
00:43:19
Voices out here that tell you like this
00:43:21
is the right way to do this and this is
00:43:22
the right way to do that and it's like
00:43:24
no there's just I don't think that
00:43:25
there's one right way for a lot of it um
00:43:29
yeah
00:43:30
so this has been incredible I um I want
00:43:34
to say thank you first of all for coming
00:43:36
on and being so vulnerable um and
00:43:38
sharing your homeschool experience um is
00:43:41
there look kind of kind of looking back
00:43:44
at your homeschool experience I'm gonna
00:43:46
ask you two things was is there a moment
00:43:48
that stands out as you go okay this is
00:43:50
like in my opinion the biggest negative
00:43:52
of homeschooling okay and then maybe
00:43:54
this is the biggest positive of
00:43:56
homeschooling
00:43:57
um so I think it kind of relates to what
00:44:00
you were saying but um for me the
00:44:03
biggest negative was that my mom
00:44:05
probably wasn't and my parents weren't
00:44:06
in a place to be the healthiest parents
00:44:11
and so for me the biggest negative was
00:44:13
that H school I was like trapped with
00:44:17
with this not great situation um and
00:44:20
because I didn't have a good network of
00:44:22
other people to talk to or even like
00:44:24
another reality of like oh other
00:44:26
families aren't like this um it was it
00:44:29
was like took me a long time to like
00:44:31
work myself through that as an adult and
00:44:34
like that what what I went through um so
00:44:37
for me I think that's the biggest
00:44:38
negative is that if you have a a family
00:44:41
Dynamic where things are not healthy
00:44:43
toxic whatever abusive I guess that
00:44:47
being in homeschool can trap you there
00:44:49
in a way that I feel like yes people do
00:44:52
get trapped you know if they go to
00:44:53
public school but there's teachers and
00:44:55
other people that are looking out for
00:44:56
kids
00:44:57
um so for me that that was certainly the
00:44:59
biggest negative overall um but the
00:45:02
biggest positive I think that was that I
00:45:04
I became like a a more self-directed
00:45:07
learner I think I kind of touched on
00:45:09
that earlier and yeah and I and I've
00:45:11
become somebody that like you throw me
00:45:14
into a situation and I can just kind of
00:45:15
figure it out like I don't need
00:45:17
necessarily guidance to be like this is
00:45:19
the steps right I I like okay do this
00:45:22
thing figure it out and I and I can most
00:45:25
of the time right and so so so that that
00:45:28
is the positive for for me 100% that and
00:45:31
it's influenced what I chose as my
00:45:33
profession essentially yeah yeah the
00:45:36
best compliment I ever got from someone
00:45:38
was they're like you are like a human uh
00:45:40
Swiss army knife and I was like okay and
00:45:43
they're like we have thrown you into
00:45:45
this situation we throw you into that
00:45:47
and you just like picked it up and did
00:45:48
whatever and I was like huh that's
00:45:51
interesting and yeah as I've spent time
00:45:54
unpacking that it to to your point it's
00:45:56
like I think being at home and having an
00:46:00
education where yeah you are kind of
00:46:02
that person who has to you have to want
00:46:04
it and you have to like pursue it and
00:46:08
it's a I think it's a love of education
00:46:10
at the root of it um which is like
00:46:12
something that my parents instilled in
00:46:14
me it sounds like your parents kind of
00:46:16
instilled in you or at least put you in
00:46:17
a position where you're like I have to I
00:46:19
have to be in the learning yeah uh yeah
00:46:23
and and I think when you have that it's
00:46:26
like you said it's easy to just kind of
00:46:27
get thrown into any situation and be
00:46:29
like okay I can pick this up I can I
00:46:31
know the questions to ask I know the
00:46:33
like the logistics of like how to find
00:46:35
the information that I need and then we
00:46:37
can roll and most of the time that's
00:46:40
half the battle right there it's just
00:46:42
it's just that I agree I
00:46:45
agree oh oh my gosh Whitney this has
00:46:48
been amazing is there anything I left
00:46:49
out or that I haven't asked you that I
00:46:51
should have asked you um or any other
00:46:53
homeschool memories that have just like
00:46:55
popped up where you're like oh this was
00:46:56
funny or cringy or just like I don't
00:46:59
know anything that I've I've forgotten
00:47:02
Before We Say Goodbye nothing in
00:47:04
particular that I can think of but um
00:47:06
yeah I just yeah thank you for having me
00:47:09
on it's been really great to kind of
00:47:11
delve more into your channel and stuff
00:47:12
so thank you yeah no I'm I'm so glad you
00:47:16
found me and I know what we chatted last
00:47:18
you were talking about everybody I've
00:47:20
talked with who has kind of come from
00:47:22
outside of like my friend group that I
00:47:24
grew up with it's interesting how like
00:47:27
either hear about the show or that you
00:47:29
know asking them about exploring the ex-
00:47:31
homeschooler realm of just them being
00:47:32
like Oh I found Reddit post and I found
00:47:34
quora and whatever else like asking
00:47:36
questions to find that community and so
00:47:38
yeah it's been cool cool to kind of like
00:47:41
be a part of that and learning and and
00:47:42
even me I'm I'm seeking out that more
00:47:45
and and trying to find more people
00:47:47
outside of the you know the few hundred
00:47:49
that I grew up kind of surrounded by um
00:47:52
and because there's a lot of us out
00:47:54
there there's a lot of us weirdos out
00:47:56
and we got some crazy stories um crazy
00:48:00
unique experiences and so um yeah so
00:48:03
once again thank you for sharing your
00:48:04
story I appreciate it so much and uh to
00:48:07
all my listeners uh if you want to reach
00:48:09
out if you want to be on the show it's
00:48:11
super easy just shoot me an email at
00:48:13
exhs [email protected] Whitney did it you
00:48:16
can do it um we chat we have a good time
00:48:19
we we just we goof around um and we and
00:48:22
we talk about our ex homeschool days so
00:48:25
until next time I'll see you all right
00:48:28
peace
00:48:35
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00:48:41
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