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What happens when two friends who haven't seen each other in seven years jump on a Zoom call and catch up? You're
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going to find out today on this episode of the Exhomeschoolers Club. I'm your
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host, Jacob Gooden, and that's right, we're back with the best exhomeschooler
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podcast this side of the internet. And today, I'm joined by my wonderful, lovely friend, Katrin, formerly France,
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uh, now McGugan. We are going to catch up on all things from our past. We're
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going to catch up on the last seven years. What has happened? A lot has changed in both of our lives. We both
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got married. She's had two kids. We're going to talk about our homeschool past
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together. We're going to talk about potentially her homeschool future. Um, and a bunch of other stuff. But before I
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let you go, I've got a newsletter. I want you on it. First link in the description is going to be the sign up
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link for that. Go hop on that. I I'm shooting out emails once a week, maybe every other week, with just latest
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episodes, things I'm reading, things I'm watching, resources for this show, all that kind
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of fun stuff. So, go check it out, see for yourself. All right, now on to the [Music]
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episode. Krin, first and foremost, welcome to the exhomeschoolers club. Thank you. I am so glad to be here.
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You and I have been friends for a long time. I mean, if it hasn't been clear in
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my episodes with Ellia and Carrie, like we've known each other for it feels like
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forever. Uh, but your dad was my music teacher. You've you've been over my
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house like plenty of times. I've been to your house. Like we so many things have
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happened where our lives just intersected. Definitely. Yes. It's a lot of things
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happen. A lot of things happened. Yeah. But we were chatting before we got started and it's been at least seven
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years since we've seen each other or even talked to each other and you and I
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are both married now. You have two kids. Like life has definitely shifted and we're going to get into all that, but um
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it's good to reconnect. I'm excited to reconnect. Yes, it it's so nice to
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reconnect and yeah, it's been long a long time and a lot of things have transpired over the years. Yeah. So, I
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guess with that, I'm going to turn it over to you for a little for a few minutes. Walk me through kind of your
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homeschool experience. Like, you know, were you always homeschooled? You know, what did it look like? Obviously, we
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kind of I already I dropped I spilled the beans. You have two sisters, but like, you know, uh kind of walk me
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through that a little bit and then we'll go from there. Man, homeschooling was a
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time for sure. Um it's it was a really good experience for the most part. Uh we
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I was homeschooled my whole life, like all through school, um all up until high school. Um and uh yeah, I'm really close
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with my sisters and it was really great. We uh there's a lot of good things that
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I experienced. There was a lot of flexibility. Um we I remember like the daily schedule would always kind of
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change every day. like it was kind of you never know what to expect, but we did so much like not just reading um
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from textbooks or whatever, but I just remember doing so many like field trips and interactive learning. Um and it was
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kind of really great for me because we got to uh just that kind of flexibility. um was really good for being able to
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focus like on my strengths um and all the extracurricular activities like we had lots of time. You can kind of make
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your own schedule so that you have time to go do all the fun stuff that you want
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to do and uh for me that was like dance and gymnastics and uh getting a job at a
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young age and just be able to have all that time for that was really great. Um, yeah, I really loved being able to be
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like with my family a lot of the time. Like we really bonded. Um, and I can't
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imagine like going to school and like not seeing my family for most of the day. Like for me it was just normal.
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Like you just see your family all day every day. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel you. It's like it it's so it was a weird
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thing to for me get to like college or even high school and start to make friends that were like outside of that
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and be like so wait you like go somewhere and you're like you're at this
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place for eight hours a day with like maybe your sibling is there too but like you're different classes and like it
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just felt weird. It just was a foreign kind of concept and I mean I went to public school for two years. I I kind of
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get the idea but it was like it just didn't feel it doesn't feel like normal.
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Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we were just definitely like so bonded. Me and my sisters are
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still like so very close um to this day and like we were super close with my fam
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my parents and uh just like and again with my dad's studio like being able to
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be like, "Oh, hey, we're not going to do school today. Like we're going to go to
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the studio and make some music and learn to play some instruments." And it was
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just like so fun for me because it was like there was a lot of times where we could have breaks to go play outside. I
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remember just playing outside a lot of the day which like really helped me not, you know, having to like sit down in a
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classroom, you know, for like eight hours just trying to stay focused. Uh it was really good for me to be able to,
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you know, bounce around and do some school here and there, uh go do an extracurricular activity, go hang out
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with friends, go do some more homework, and just having that freedom and flexibility uh was definitely a
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highlight for me. And and that like that family closeness. um being able to just
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yeah spend time with them um through the ups and downs and uh spend time together
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and you know yeah I remember you saying on one of the episodes where how you just like do homework like at Disneyland
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with your family and it was just like yeah like let's do it. Yeah, you just do
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it wherever you need to do it and like I mean like you brought up your dad's
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studio. It's like that was also like a safe space for me too. It's like I took
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music lessons. It's really how we got more connected to your family. Obviously
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we were both a part of Achieve and Group Solutions and things like that. we were
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bound to run into each other at some point, but like being at your dad's studio was like I spent so much time
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there and like worked for him and like all that stuff. But I remember those times of like, hey, we're just like
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going to track whatever. We're just going to like go in there and be creative and like that was always so
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cool and like going in and he'd be like, oh yeah, like I had the girls come in
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and we recorded this whole thing and like it's you know you guys would make full albums and full just like crazy
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whatever. It was just like it was so interesting and your family in general is just I think one of the more creative
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homeschool families. You guys were all you guys are all very talented singers, songwriters, artists. I know you paint
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now. Like you guys are just like everything you set your mind to you guys end up being super talented at. So kudos
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to you. Kudos to your parents for encouraging that. But yeah, it was really nice like having that creative
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outlet. like I I felt like academically, you know, I was able to do a lot, but it
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was definitely not my strength. Um, a lot of different subjects I just really did not like doing. But if it was like,
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oh, music or poetry or art or dance, it was or theater, it was like, oh, like I want to do that. And that's kind of why
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I loved the flexible schedule because it's like, okay, you can get the boring
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stuff that you don't like doing out of the way and then have all these creative
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outlets, uh, which is just really good for for me and my personality and and, uh, just really necessary for me to be
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able to, you know, handle the boring stuff. What did a typical day look like? I mean, you you already kind of said
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like there there was no normal days. Like, it definitely changed a lot, but like like what did that I mean, and what
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did school look like? I mean, like, did you guys have a very set curriculum or was your or was it very like loosey
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goosey? My mom shifted things a lot like we changed up things just all the time.
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Um, usually year to year, but but it was just a constant evolution of of whatever. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It really
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like I had some friends where it was like you're up at 7:00 every day and you're doing this uh subject at 8 and
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you're doing this very strict. And um ours is a little bit more loose um and
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flexible and uh like I just I remember being able to sleep in and not have to wake up early which is also a big plus.
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Um and just like some subjects we would do at home. Um a lot most of them I feel
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like were like with group solutions and like uh writing class. Shout out to Mrs.
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Yep who's awesome. Um all of the side classes from all the different homeschool moms that we took. Um, and
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uh, yeah, it's kind of like just a mixture of all of those things. Um, and yeah, we would I remember we'd do school
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and then like an hour and then uh, you know, go outside, you know, have fun, go roller skate and and don't come back in
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yet. Uh, and then we'd just jump into another thing or we'd go to group solutions and take classes there. And
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every day was just definitely a little bit different. Sometimes it would like I remember being in Konos like back in the
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day like super fun time. I have a lot of good memories from that that time. uh being like, "Oh, we're doing a class on
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like ancient Egypt and we're all going to dress up or like my mom, I remember
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her dressing up um as one of like Egyptian queens and uh we were eating like Egyptian food like trying food from
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that culture and just like a really interactive experience instead of just like reading a book be like this is what
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happened like we were able to kind of learn a lot of different interactive ways and a lot of different outlets and
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uh so that was definitely I loved going to Konos and all the classes because it'd be like a lot more hands-on um
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experience which I really liked about homeschooling. I was never in Konos. So, describe a little bit of like what that
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was like cuz I've talked a lot about group solutions on the show before. It's
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very it's a lot more structured, very class ccentric kind of a thing. Very almost like traditional school in a way,
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but Konos seems a little bit different than that. So, what exactly like was it? How many people What do you remember?
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Yeah, it is hard to remember. I will say because it's been a long time and I was
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pretty little when we were in it, but um I remember it being similar to groups like where we would meet. I think it was
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uh I I might be wrong on this, but like it was either every week or every other week and uh just going there couple
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classes, being able to play outside at the park. Um, and then a lot of times we just did like field trips like I
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remember I vaguely remember um going to different like museums and like uh pretty sure we visited like a beehive
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farm or whatever it is called one place and learning about bees and then going to like uh the hatchery learning about
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the fish like all this stuff. Uh and so I my memories are like I it's hard to
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remember but I just remember always it being like a fun time. Yeah. And I remember one class uh where we had to
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like try sushi and we were try it was like all about food and we were trying all the foods that we didn't normally
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like. And I remember having a hard time with that class cuz I was very picky. I took a food class too. I sushi was not
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my jam. And then when I when I met my wife that was like she's like we're
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going for sushi when we were dating and I was like I don't eat sushi. And she's
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like she's like you're going to eat it now. And I'm like and now it's one of my
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favorite things. So Oh yeah. Hey there you go. It happens. Yeah. Like I like a class like on trying new foods which is
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like funny because I I just feel like may I mean again I don't know exactly how public school works because I don't
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have anything you know compared to I was just homeschooled but you know there's a
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lot of classes I took that I feel like weren't going to be like classes in a
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typical school environment. Um, but that were still super super fun and like I feel like I learned a lot better uh
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being in that environment where it's like fun and hands-on. Um, and like I I
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a couple years ago I got diagnosed with ADHD as like an adult. And that kind of like clicked in my head of why it was
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like I did have such a hard time like in school um being able to like read a textbook or focus on this or that. And I
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think that's what homeschooling really helped me with um is just having all the
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different types of learning whether you're like watching a movie and learning from that or um or going to
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like a museum or just like lots of different ways of learning that helped me instead of just like well you're just
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expected to uh read a book um be able to read a book straight and retain all the
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information. It it's interesting because I don't have ADHD. I don't have
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dyslexia. I don't really have any of the like quote unquote learning disabilities, which I even hate that
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term. Like I view it as more just like that's just the way your brain works,
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right? It's just, you know, that's it's what makes you unique, right? And um so
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like for me, reading a textbook and like memorizing it and being able to put it back down on paper is like not really an
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issue. Um and so I joke with my mom, I'm like, I would have done she's like, "You
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would have done fine in regular school, like in public school, because I just that's how I operate." However, I would
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have missed out on all these crazy opportunities like you were talking about like your mom dressing up like an
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Egyptian queen and like trying all these new foods and like all the stuff that is
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not 100% going to happen in a public school. Right. Right. And the the amount of field trips and the amount of just
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like hands-on this and that and and you know we also like you brought up Mrs. Yep. like we had different teachers for
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different things that like you know they made things unique and different and that's I think what helped a lot of us
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um and especially like like you said having ADHD you know or like I have family members who have dyslexia like
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it's just things like that it's like you just have to do it differently. It's
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just there's no way there's no way around it. Yeah. And like Yeah. being
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able to like take a break and go play outside and burn off energy for an hour um or go do something else. It's like I
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could not sit for hours and just um like you know study because I I would just lose my mind at that point. I'd be able
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to like bounce around and because that's how I my mind works. I bounce around
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this and that and I can focus very well if I'm that's why it's like with all the
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fun things that I love doing, all the creative things, it's like I could definitely focus with that, but when it
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came to like math or science or history, I just be kind of like, okay. Yeah. So,
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let me ask you this. Now that you now that you know that you have ADHD, are what have you are there any like tips,
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tricks, things that you've learned to kind of be like, okay, like here's how
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my brain operates. So like I know that I have to do things this way which is not
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the traditional way of like and it could be stupid stuff. I mean it could be chores, it could
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be you know cooking, it can be I don't know but like how do you what have what
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have you learned? I guess that's the question. Yeah. Yeah. So many things. Um
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really the most important thing that I have learned is to work with your brain not against it. Um, and I think in like
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in high school especially, I put a lot of pressure on myself to be able to learn the way that everybody else or
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like a lot of other people's people do like um and I felt kind of I kind of internalized that and be like well I'm
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not you know I'm I'm kind of dumb compared to them like I can't uh learn
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as well as them and kind of internalized that and then just realizing years later
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like there's nothing wrong with you like if you have you know a learning ing
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disability or whatever. Um it's like you just have to work a little bit differently. You just have to learn a
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little bit differently. And um like for me lots of things have helped like I mean like with chores like I will start
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uh and this was me in during school when I was young too, but like I'd start a
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chore and then I go in the other room and see another mess and then I will start cleaning that and then I'll like
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bounce around. Especially like as a mom like the house is always messy. that is my life and bouncing around and
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never actually completing anything and then just being so overwhelmed. Um but like for that like setting timers has
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been really like helpful. Um or in just like reading like I can read but it's
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like I have to do little short spurts. I can't ever just like sit and read something for like an hour. Um, and so
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like if I'm trying to read something or trying to get something done, uh, like
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setting a timer just is really simple thing that has helped me a lot. Just like helps my brain get back on track.
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Be like, "What was I doing again?" Oh, yeah. I do that too. You know, it's I I
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don't know if you've ever heard of the Pomodoro timer theory, but basically, so
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the way that one works is you have you do 30 minutes of what's called deep work, right? So I do a lot of editing,
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uh, video and and audio editing. So, right, 30 minutes just hardcore stare at a screen editing can be very hard even
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for somebody who doesn't have ADHD. It's like it is very hard, right? Um, but
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what's cool is I'm like, "Okay, 30 minutes and then I get a five minute
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break and I click on my five minute timer. I can do whatever in that five minutes, you know, go do a couple
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jumping jacks, use the bathroom, get a fresh cup of water, go outside for a few minutes, right? You know, whatever it
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is." and you come back and you do another 30 minutes of this like deep work and you maybe you transition to
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something else. Maybe it's like okay now I'm doing paperwork or now I'm creating
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a graphic or whatever. But the the kind of like like you said of like having that set time of just like okay I'm
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going to do this and it will end and I can watch be watching the countdown of like it's going to end in this amount of
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time. I don't know it like it like does something to the brain where you're like
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I can do it. I can make it you know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. cuz that motivation and like procrastination is a real
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issue, you know, with ADHD. Um, and like cuz your your brain is just naturally lower level of like dopamine and
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everything. And so, um, it's like you have to find ways to like boost that motivation, right? You got to gify it a
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lot of times, too. Yeah. It's like I can do I can do this for 15 minutes. Like
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even though it sounds hard, like I can do it and I'm you're always I'm always
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amazed at what I can get done in 15 minutes. Yeah. Um, and just like get that done and then you kind of reward
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yourself with Yeah. like 5 10 minutes and like I know my uh my six-year-old at uh when he was in like a prek program at
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um last year at his school, he uh they would do brain breaks and so like after they would do some learning, they would
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turn on some like dance videos and they have a little dance party and just like a way to reward your brain and have fun
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and then it's just a lot easier to get back to studying and and stuff like that. So yeah, there's lots of different
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things that I've learned and I'm still learning. Um, for sure just how to
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instead of like expecting myself to be able to keep up with uh people who are able to uh you know do that uh in a
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better way like like work with yourself, not against yourself. There's nothing
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wrong with you. Uh you just your brain is wired a little differently and that's
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it. Not a big not a big deal. Um you know everyone everyone's brain is different and so it's like work with it
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not against it. Yeah. Well, and I think for those of us who are not ADHD, I it's
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it's an interesting thing to learn about because I'm married to someone with ADHD
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as well. And so it's one of those things where it it can be frustrating from my
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perspective, right? Because I'm like, well, just do this, right? Like because
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that's what makes sense in my brain. Yeah. But the longer I sit with it and I
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go, okay, I have to look I have to remove myself from that and I have to go, okay, I got to look at this from
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like that brain style. And that's really hard to do. It is. The patience it takes
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can be very overwhelming. But in the same way, you also have to have patience for people like us because we are just
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like, well, we're just gonna do it this way and like we're just going to grind
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it out or we're going to crank, you know, we're just we can go for four hours doing this one thing that like
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you're like that is torture. Mhm. Um and so I don't know. I just I've learned in
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the last couple years particularly that it's like also for me taking time to
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understand like this is how your brain works and there's great like you you brought up there's so much more
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education around it now and I think that did exist when we were kids but not I mean we have the internet now it's at
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the palm of you know it's the fingertips um right so educate yourself on this
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stuff for for people who are not too because it's like you you're going to
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encounter someone whose brain just works differently and if you know how to operate with
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Wow. Like you guys can do incredible things together, right? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And for me it was the like I
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remember learning a lot, but it was the retaining all that information. It just kind of like it goes in my brain and it
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doesn't stick. It just kind of leaves. And so like I'll be like the boy my boys
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will ask me questions or like math questions simple ones sometimes and I'm like how do I do that again? Like I
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don't remember how to do that. And that's where it came in handy to not just like read about how to do
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something, but to uh like for me, if I'm trying to learn something now, it's like
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I I write it at the same time as I'm listening to it as the same time that I'm reading it. It's like I kind of like
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all the different ways of learning. I try to do that. Um and that really helps it like stick in my brain more as
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opposed to just reading it and memorizing it. Um, you know, even like coming up with a, you know, some hand
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motion or song or dance to help me memorize it. Uh, you know, you could be silly things like that, but it does
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help, you know, to just get that information to stick. Yes, I love the silly stuff because like I think I like
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after 2020 in particular like I really I think a lot of people lost fun in their
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lives and like to find that again and like be silly like I worked at a toy store for a year and a half or whatever.
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That was so much fun because it was just like I get to play with toys with kids like and it was just I got to be silly.
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I got to like reenact and reinvigorate like the creative juices and be, you know, I
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don't know. It just it brought something new and I was like, I'm not going to
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worry about like looking dumb. I'm not going to worry about like, you know, people being like, you play with toys.
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It's like I don't care. I this is fun for me and this like makes me happy and
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make and that makes me healthier and that's I'm I'm good with that, you know.
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Absolutely. So, okay, I do want to transition a little bit. Yeah. And so let's let's bounce to the end of high
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school and you're getting ready to become an adult, right? You're about to
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be 18. I know we we did different paths. Um like I did the more traditional like I
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went to college, you did some very unique stuff. I want to hear a little bit about that and like how that kind of
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your thought process and like choosing that path. Yeah. Yeah. I I remember um senior year doing like the career and
00:22:48
college planning class at Group Solutions and being just like I had I I love doing so many different things. I
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can't I'm not good at making decisions. And so I was like I want to do like
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everything. I have all these ideas like and it would be ranging from like I want
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to be um like a horse trainer and I want to be a ballet dancer. I want to like teach French and I want to be an opera
00:23:09
singer. It's like all these things that are not related. just like so many things I was excited about. Um but uh
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yeah, I really like I just didn't know and I didn't want to make like a really
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like big decision. I didn't feel like I was ready to make like a big decision.
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And I think it was nice being able to be like you don't have to go like right to
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college. You know, there's a lot of different um paths you can take. And um and I just really felt at that time I
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really wanted to go help people and that's something that I'm really passionate about. And um and so I joined
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um a ministry in Louisiana that does disaster relief and um they have ships and they go out to like Haiti and um
00:23:50
Middle East and wherever there's need. They do a lot of like local disaster relief in Louisiana with flooding and um
00:23:57
and everything. And uh I was like, you know what, I don't know what I want to
00:24:01
do, but I know that I can spend my time helping people right now and I don't
00:24:04
have to figure it out yet. and um you know the it's not like a rush to figure
00:24:09
anything out. And so um I was able to go there and um it was kind of like a YWAM
00:24:15
type thing like for college age um people and just like a lot of uh spiritual training and disaster relief
00:24:22
training. Um, and that's where I met my husband. And it it kind of was going
00:24:27
from like the the like Christian homeschool bubble that we grew up in to like another like Christian bubble um in
00:24:36
that ministry. Um, which was great. And then, you know, like when you're out of
00:24:41
that and you're in the real world, it's like, okay, like this is nor like it's
00:24:46
hard to figure out. Like even still, like at my current job, you know, I'm just used to always being around, you
00:24:52
know, people that believe the same things as me and people that have grown up the same way. And um it really is
00:24:58
like a big culture shock when you're like an adult because you're like not
00:25:03
everyone thinks the same way. Everyone has a lot of different experience opinions and experiences and it's like a
00:25:11
whole new world. Like it's like whoa. I feel you cuz even me like I went to a
00:25:16
small Christian college. There's a thousand students which sounds like a lot of people but when you compare that
00:25:21
to one of the bigger universities it's not that many people like we basically
00:25:26
knew everybody on the campus. It's easy to remember a thousand people's names uh
00:25:30
if you try hard enough. And so, but it was interesting because and I had a buddy on um Adam Gaus was on this
00:25:37
episode on a on the podcast and he we went to the same college together and so we talked about how it was very much
00:25:45
like going from like a youth group Christian scenario to a bigger youth group Christian scenario. Yes. And then
00:25:51
when we started to leave that and even within inside of that we had a lot of denominations of people. We had like
00:25:58
free Methodists and non-denominational and Lutherans and and Catholics and like everything and we were like what is
00:26:04
going on? Like we start to realize like we do not believe the same thing like or
00:26:08
we disagree on stuff overall. We all agreed on like religion but like or like we we kind of all had the same narrative
00:26:16
of like man messed up. Jesus needed to come save us kind of a thing. But like when it came to the intricacies of like
00:26:22
religion, we were all in complete disagreement of like what that looked like. And so it was interesting to then
00:26:29
like work through that where it was kind of that stepping stone to then we get to
00:26:33
the real world and you're like, "Oh, to your point, there's a bunch of people
00:26:38
who don't believe any of this, right? And how do you step into that and how do
00:26:42
you exist in that?" Yeah. It's I'm I'm going to argue that was maybe a weak
00:26:47
point in our childhood a little bit of like I think having been exposed to more outside information could have been
00:26:56
good especially when it comes to religion. Yeah. No, I agree. I think that like when you're raised in that
00:27:01
like kind of Christian environment, it's like you grow up thinking like this is
00:27:05
the way like everybody should believe these specific things. but also kind of you know it wasn't until I was out of
00:27:13
that that I kind of realized there is some you know toxic stuff happening in there and uh you know purity culture and
00:27:20
all that I know you've talked about that a lot and it's like oh like kind of like
00:27:25
when you're becoming an adult and when you leave your family and you leave that
00:27:28
environment it's like okay who am I like on my own what do I believe like what do
00:27:32
I want to what beliefs do I want to take with me um like from my parents or my environment and then what do I kind of
00:27:38
want to get rid of because I don't associate with it anymore. Um, and kind of like
00:27:43
that's the hard part is like deciding on your own like what you're going to
00:27:47
believe because it's like easy when you grow up and that it's like you're just
00:27:50
told what to believe like this is the truth. Um, when in fact, you know, looking back there's a lot of things
00:27:56
that I'm just like eh that was not very healthy. Um, that wasn't really that
00:28:00
great. Um, and so it's like actually the real world is more it's more normal for
00:28:07
people to not believe in things that you believe. Like it's uh kind of the opposite. And so be able to like
00:28:12
navigate that whereas like you believe what you know what you really do believe and you know getting rid of the things
00:28:19
that don't um that you don't want to believe anymore or you don't feel like
00:28:23
is necessary or or whatever and kind of becoming your own independent person. And and so that was definitely like a
00:28:29
huge step for me because once it was you know I moved to the ministry it was like
00:28:33
okay what from homeschool do I want to take or my experience then and then it was like when I left the ministry it was
00:28:39
like okay now I am in the real world like uh I'm a mom too like I got kids to
00:28:45
worry about now and it's like well now a lot of things from that ministry were
00:28:50
not good either and so it's like it there's a lot of things a lot of taking
00:28:54
and leaving I feel like with faith faith or just beliefs in general and and stuff. So, it's an experience for sure.
00:29:01
One thing that I think is uh I won't say it's unique, but I one thing that we have shared in experience
00:29:08
is the fact that like we both left home at a young age. I was 18. I'm assuming
00:29:13
you were right around 18, right? Yeah. Mhm. So like that alone is like huge world shift of just like you're going
00:29:21
from all the comforts of everything safe, everything that you know and the homeschool community we grew up in was
00:29:26
so tight as well where like I mean the number of people who were like don't leave. It's like I understand that like
00:29:33
I I'm sad too. I don't want to go. But it was it was like a necessary thing,
00:29:38
right? It's like it I have to step outside of that. Now again this is not to criticize anybody that stayed. That's
00:29:43
like it's just that is a unique thing that I think it can be helpful, right?
00:29:49
Because it's like it puts you out there and then you know right after you left
00:29:54
your ministry and pretty soon after I left college like we both got married like we started new lives, we moved to
00:30:01
brand new states for us like we have that in common where it's like okay we have to figure this out. We have to
00:30:06
figure out how to be adults in a real world to some degree on our own you know. Yes. Um, that's a scary challenge.
00:30:14
It really is. And you were a mom pretty quickly into your marriage as well. So, that's a whole another a whole another
00:30:22
can of worms. Um, yeah. As well. But Oh, yeah. Yeah. I feel like I just left high
00:30:28
school and then I did something and then I like got married and I then I had got
00:30:32
pregnant and then it's like the next one came and then we move and it's like we
00:30:35
moved and it's just like all these huge life changes and especially like when
00:30:39
you have kids then you're kind of like start questioning like okay what you know what do I want to teach them what
00:30:46
do I want them to grow up like learning like do I want to do the same things that my parents did or that my
00:30:51
environment did or do I want to do things differently do I want to kind of like edit that take some of that other
00:30:57
stuff out that I don't like. And um and so it's like it's a whole process, but
00:31:01
then like having kids so young and so quickly without really growing up myself, it's definitely been a challenge
00:31:09
and it's it's been a huge blessing. Like I love them. Um and I've definitely been
00:31:13
on a a roller coaster of life changes. Yeah. But it's kind of like forced me um
00:31:20
to really uh grind out like who am I? Like what is my identity? What do I believe? what do I not believe? Um, you
00:31:26
know, how do I be my own person as well as be a wife and be a mom? Um, you know,
00:31:31
how do I remain true to myself and what do I want my kids to grow up in? And just a lot of questions you got to
00:31:36
answer and kind of hammer out. Yeah. I think something that I've realized and
00:31:42
I've been this is one of the things I've been working on and talking to people a
00:31:46
lot more about is I look at the iterations of like my grandparents to my parents to me, right? Mh. And like my
00:31:54
grandparents, they have their own set of issues and I can look at that and I can
00:31:58
go, okay, like I don't like XYZ about them and and I can talk to my parents and and my dad has been very vocal with
00:32:04
me about things that his dad did that he didn't really like, right? And he's
00:32:06
like, so I tried to change those things. My dad wanted to be very heavily involved in my in my life. My grandpa
00:32:12
traveled a lot when my dad was a kid. So my dad was like, I don't want to do
00:32:15
that. You know, he he intentionally wanted to be in my life. And I'm like, great. Well, there's things that my dad
00:32:20
did that I would never want to do if I were to have kids or, you know, to, you know, I just want to change that about
00:32:26
me. Right. Right. And that's to your point of like kind of figuring out who you are and taking the good stuff and
00:32:33
things that I'm like, yes, I love this. This was a good thing. Right. I'm hang
00:32:37
on to that as tightly as I can. But then also relearning to be like, okay, but I
00:32:40
think we can do these other things better. Right. Yes. And so becoming the better version and then hopefully for
00:32:46
you, for your kids, then they can take what you and uh uh Chandler, right? Yes. Yeah. Are right and take those things
00:32:54
and be even better versions of themselves, right? And so, yeah, you know, I think that's that's huge. And
00:32:59
it's cool that you're asking those questions and you know, it is tough. It also is tough
00:33:04
to find time for yourself, you know, to be like to ask those things, right? And it's scary. Yeah. and knowing that like
00:33:11
it's okay also to like to not you know it's it's as you said it's like safe
00:33:18
that kind of environment that you grow up in. It's like you're kind of almost
00:33:21
at least in me like I was kind of afraid to like not you know continue with some
00:33:26
of the same beliefs and like same way of doing things because it was like that was safe and that was you know
00:33:31
comfortable but then as an adult you're just like kicked out of the nest and
00:33:35
it's like okay like do I have to you know hold on to that um and just like deciding for my family what we want to
00:33:44
uh believe and how what we want to do and it's like there's it's okay also to
00:33:49
like not have it all figured out. And like I am just in a constant state of learning and growing and questioning and
00:33:56
like the questioning part is a great place like to be in because I think sometimes when you grow up in that
00:34:01
environment it's like well this is just the truth like you like this is just it
00:34:05
and you know you believe it everyone believes it. Um and then but it's actually actually like very healthy to
00:34:11
question and be like okay like where am I at on this? um like it's okay to think
00:34:17
differently and not everyone thinks the same and especially yeah in the real world like everyone has a lot of
00:34:23
different viewpoints and opinions and you know all their experiences lead up to that and so it's just like there's a
00:34:30
lot of things but it's a really so like it's interesting being I'm agnostic so
00:34:38
for me that means like I don't necessarily know that there is something I'm not an atheist but I'm not like I
00:34:45
don't necessarily believe in the God of the Bible or you know I I just question
00:34:50
I just I sit in questions a lot and to some people that like freaks them out. They're like but how how do you how are
00:34:57
you comfortable with that? I'm like it's just I'm okay with it right now because like
00:35:03
I'm just I feel better asking questions. I feel like I get a better understanding
00:35:09
of spirituality and the fact that I feel comfortable going to a Buddhist text or
00:35:16
I can look back at the Bible and I can ask these questions and I can go okay let me look at this thing and let me see
00:35:21
it let me ask a question about it and you know garner something from it right and meditate on it and think on it it's
00:35:28
like I enjoy that I enjoy learning and so that questions is a huge part of learning right and so Yes, absolutely.
00:35:38
I'm comfortable. And again, it freaks a lot of people out. They go, I don't know
00:35:42
how you could ever do that. And I'm like, I just I just am I'm comfortable
00:35:47
in an uncomfortable way. And that doesn't make sense to a lot of people, but I'm like, that's just that's just
00:35:52
where I'm at, you know? Like you just And it is. It's just that's where I'm
00:35:56
at, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Especially like knowing that like at some point you're just not going to have all the
00:36:02
answers. And like for people who just want to know why why or how does this make sense like me it's like sometimes
00:36:09
I've had to come like in my own like personal like faith journey having to be
00:36:13
like you know what like I don't understand this and that's okay like it's okay to question what you were
00:36:19
taught like growing up like it's not doesn't mean you're a bad person and I
00:36:22
think at first when I started like questioning a lot it was like oh no like I must be a bad person like there must
00:36:27
be something wrong with me for like trying to step out and like oh no like is that a sin to like start questioning
00:36:34
the narrative that I've been, you know, taught and being like, "No, like it's
00:36:38
good and healthy for you to uh to question things and to just be like, you know, like I'm my own person now. I'm
00:36:45
I'm my own adult and now I have kids that it's like I've got to figure out,
00:36:49
you know, I want them to be uh I don't want them to be like sheltered and I don't want them to be too overexposed to
00:36:54
certain things." It's like trying to figure that out with them and their
00:36:58
school experience like how do I give them the freedom to like choose to like you know teach them what I think is is
00:37:05
good to know but also letting them have the freedom to choose like their own path as well. So it's like it's tricky
00:37:13
figuring that out. Well, let me let me ask you this like too. So, you have two sons. Like, what a as they're getting to
00:37:22
an age where school is starting to become a reality for them. Like, what are you looking at school-wise and
00:37:28
education wise? I I'm a big proponent of like parents just being involved in
00:37:32
their education, which sounds like you are. Um, but like what are you what is going through your brain of like, okay,
00:37:38
you did the homeschool thing. Are you going to homeschool your kids? Are you going to send them public school? Are
00:37:42
you going to send them to private school? like what what what are the thought what is the thought process that
00:37:46
goes into that? Yeah. So, when we first uh like were pregnant and everything, we
00:37:50
were very like passionate about um homeschooling. And then um as life happened, I had a really rough few years
00:37:57
um after my especially after like my second son um and mentally just not doing well on some things and and we
00:38:05
kind of realized like right now like it's not really an option and um so right now my uh six-year-old is in
00:38:14
kindergarten at their elementary school and he loves it. Like it he has the best
00:38:20
time. It's like he's just thriving completely. Like he's made so many
00:38:23
friends and it's like I'm still so new to public school. I still don't know how
00:38:27
it works. So I find myself asking a lot of questions like just because of being homeschooled all my life. It's like oh
00:38:33
like what what is like and I think there's a lot of uh I at least had a lot of fear going into public school system
00:38:40
uh based on things that I had heard whether they're truth or not you know just kind of the fear around it like oh
00:38:45
no like how is my kid going to turn out if they go to public school? Um, but for
00:38:50
right now, he's there and he's doing really well. And then my four-year-old
00:38:54
is at a preschool program at our church. They actually have like a a legit like school within the church. Um, and so he
00:39:02
does like a half days there and has a great time and does crafts and all the things all the fun things that
00:39:07
preschoolers get to do. Yeah. Um and we uh my there is a um one of our pastor's
00:39:15
wives is one of the main teachers at um my older son's elementary school and so
00:39:20
she's been a really great like source of information and answer all my questions
00:39:24
u and it's just like a really really great school and so for now that's working. it works best with our schedule
00:39:31
um because I'm working really early mornings and my husband works works in the evenings and having them be able to
00:39:37
have their own time because I think for a long time being a stay-at-home mom I realized that like I can't always handle
00:39:45
being around them 247 valid reasons, right? It makes you applaud your mom maybe a little bit more
00:39:52
where you're like, "Damn, you put up with us for that long?" Yes. Yeah. It's like it's a whole new
00:39:59
ball game when you're a parent because you're like, "Oh, wow." Like, "Woo, like
00:40:02
I can't believe my mom survived this. Um, and yeah, it really changes your perspective on things." Right now,
00:40:10
that's what works for us and we're probably going to do that the next couple years. Um, but we've definitely
00:40:17
our preference would be uh there's a lot of factors like finances and stuff, but
00:40:22
our preference would be for them to go to like a there's some really good like
00:40:25
private schools in the area. Um especially for like super gifted kids like both of my kids are extremely
00:40:32
extremely smart for their age like uh and they like just the stuff they're teaching in kindergarten like I was
00:40:39
teaching to them when they were like two when I was trying to do a little bit of
00:40:42
home school and like they're just naturally very very smart and I think a lot of times um like in the public
00:40:49
school system it's like they they might not get as recognized. It's kind of a
00:40:54
lot of things are expected, you know, everyone learning this at the same pace, uh, same level and stuff. And I I would
00:41:01
totally be interested in looking up opportunities like within public school for, um, you know, programs, uh, whether
00:41:07
they can start doing college classes early like in high school or whatever. I know there's again I really don't know a
00:41:13
lot about public schools so um there's probably a lot of opportunities for that
00:41:18
but um yeah something I would really love if they could like graduate early and you know get a job and uh be able to
00:41:28
like take college classes or uh go to university or go to a trade school or an internship or something um instead of
00:41:36
waiting you know all the way up until 18 and then trying to figure stuff out. And
00:41:40
it's we're kind of open to a lot of things. I am open to homeschooling um
00:41:44
for sure. I think it is it is hard for me just with all my mental stuff to keep on track of stuff and push them to their
00:41:52
full potential. And I feel like right now they're their teachers are really doing that for them. Um but come in a
00:41:58
couple years like we've definitely talked about it. And I think nowadays there's so many more resources like for
00:42:03
homeschool where like there's a lot of online programs where you don't, you
00:42:08
know, have to be teaching them every single thing because it's like I don't
00:42:11
remember any of this. Like sorry, you're on your own. Yeah. But like there's a
00:42:16
lot of like programs that will like keep track of all of your uh records and stuff and like teach you all the things
00:42:22
you need to know. You just need to make sure your kids do it. Um and then also involving them in like sports and um
00:42:29
extracurricular stuff. So yeah, we're kind of just like public school's working for us right now. They love it.
00:42:35
Um and it's nice to have that time away from my kids. I've learned that I really
00:42:40
need that for my own mental health. Hey, that's important, too. You know, I mean,
00:42:45
my mom, hey, when I had her on the show, and her and I have talked about this many times of like, because my grandma
00:42:51
was really one of the big forces behind like, you should homeschool your kids, you should homeschool your kids. My mom
00:42:56
was like, "You want me to give up my day of peace and quiet, being able to watch
00:43:00
Oprah, being able to go get coffee with my friends, being able to all this stuff
00:43:04
to be around my demons?" Uh, like, yes, it Yeah. I'm like, I look at it, I'm like, she gave up a lot. Um,
00:43:14
and now she gets a quiet house cuz nobody's there. She just has to put up with my dad. But, you know, Yeah. Um,
00:43:21
but it I definitely I applaud you. Like I think your mindset behind it is is great. That's like what I think the idea
00:43:30
of just being able to be like, "Okay, I know this about my kids and I want to
00:43:34
give them the best opportunity." Whether that that's public school right now,
00:43:37
great. Like, we're going to do that. Maybe it becomes home school. Who knows?
00:43:41
Maybe it becomes private school. we'll see, you know, like and explore those
00:43:44
avenues and ask the questions, right? It's like that's like awesome. That's I
00:43:49
think such a a powerful thing as a parent that you can do. So, God bless to you. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's hard.
00:43:55
there's so many decisions to make and it's like you you really want the best
00:43:58
for your kids and you know once you kind of let go of that fear because of my own
00:44:03
personal experience or you know just don't read what you read on the internet
00:44:08
about public school and the the fear about that like I I'm just seeing that like it really is really great for now
00:44:15
and like I I just I don't necessarily trust myself to like push them to their
00:44:21
fullest potential and that's what I really want for them and so it's like
00:44:24
whether that means we do some kind of program or yeah private school or um stay in public school and it's like I
00:44:31
just want the best for them and I know for me with my struggles it's just it's
00:44:36
hard to manage myself in a lot of ways and so it's also extra hard to manage
00:44:40
kids on top of that so in a lot of ways it's like if I can take care of myself
00:44:45
and have that time away then it's like I can show up and be a better parent uh to
00:44:49
them and just knowing that like don't have to figure it out right now just like do what work for now. And you know,
00:44:56
you're not going to your decisions aren't necessarily going to ruin your
00:44:59
kids. And I think there's a lot of fear where it's like, oh crap, like if I
00:45:03
don't do it the way that I was raised, then it's like they're going to be
00:45:05
ruined. And it's like, no, there's like a lot of good on both sides. Um, and
00:45:11
it's like if I could like have a support system and like a really good program, I
00:45:16
definitely probably would homeschool them eventually. Um, but yeah, just not having to worry about that right now and
00:45:22
kind of, you know, whatever works has been working for us. So, yeah. No, I like I I think too like the ability to
00:45:30
push them to their best potential. Like you said, like there's levels to that.
00:45:35
This is my opinion, but I think there's levels to that of like you need multiple
00:45:38
people in your life that do that for you. Like I think about myself and I think about like when I was in high
00:45:44
school and wanting to be the best version of myself. I had obviously my parents in my corner doing that, but I
00:45:50
also had people like your dad who were like, you can go do this thing. I believe in you, you know, and so having
00:45:56
people like that in my life who were just like they, you know, your dad of course was one of my teachers, but he
00:46:02
wasn't with me every single day, you know, and so but having somebody like that who also was just I know he's in my
00:46:08
corner was like phenomenal. It did so much for my confidence as a person to be like, "No, I can I can crush this. I got
00:46:14
this." you know, to your point of like, yeah, okay, you know, as a teacher,
00:46:20
maybe you're like, I can't do that. I can't imagine teaching. I'm like, I'm so
00:46:25
stupid when it comes to c certain things. Um, but but I'm like, but I know that like I can be in your corner and be
00:46:31
like your hype man and be pushing you to be the best version of yourself, right?
00:46:35
And so it's like I know that that's a strength of mine. Yeah. you know, and so
00:46:39
recognizing for yourself, these are my strengths and I want to give these the best that I can to my kids and I need
00:46:44
XYZ to do that, right? That's phenomenal. That's, you know, I think too many parents, they sacrifice so much
00:46:51
of themselves for their kids and it's like they lose themselves. Something I've talked about on the the show before
00:46:58
is that whole mentality of like our moms not always knowing when to turn off teacher to be mom again.
00:47:04
It's a tricky thing, right? And so there's not that segmentation in the homeschool world where it's like, okay,
00:47:11
now I'm putting mommy hat on and now it's teacher time, right? And so, you
00:47:15
know, having some of that separation. And my mom talks about this, too. She was not a mentally healthy person when
00:47:20
she started homeschooling us. She got better, but it still wasn't great. She's
00:47:25
more mentally healthy now that we're out of it. And so, um, so anyway, I just I
00:47:31
say that to say like I think what you're doing is great, like, and I applaud you
00:47:35
for it. So, keep it up. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's a journey for sure.
00:47:41
Okay. So, funny homeschool moments. Anything come to mind while you've been thinking about I I've had this one in my
00:47:47
brain that I don't know if you'll remember this. You guys used to come over to our house and play cards and
00:47:52
stuff and and there was one night my mom made uh Mexican wedding cookies which are covered in powdered sugar, right?
00:48:00
and she like spilled it all over herself or something and she she would always make this joke about like having sugar
00:48:06
boobs and I don't know why it killed you for some you were dying laughing and
00:48:12
that is like one of my most vivid memories with Katrin of just like her dying laughing on the floor because my
00:48:18
mom was like I have sugar boobs and has powdered sugar all over her shirt. Um so
00:48:23
anyway yes okay now that you mentioned it I totally remember that. Like I had not remembered that.
00:48:29
Yes, that was a quality time. I love your mom so much. She's amazing. I love
00:48:33
her, too. But yeah, but I don't know. And I know we've kind of been chatting
00:48:38
for a while back and forth like in DMs and stuff, but has there been anything that has stuck out to you of your like
00:48:45
as I'm kind of reminiscing about my years as a homechool kid where you're
00:48:48
like, "This was just such a magical moment that I like will go down in history as like, you know, and it could
00:48:54
be insignificant. It could be literally, you know, seem like nothing, but it just
00:48:59
meant something to you. Yeah. Oh, so many things. Uh, well, for one, like I know we've talked lots of talk about
00:49:05
this before, but all the swing dances were like such a highlight of my homeschool life. Um, and like the
00:49:12
English country dance like specifically because like I love that like time period and be able to dress up like when
00:49:18
do you ever have the chance to do that? Like dress up and be able to do your little dosey
00:49:22
dos. That was so so fun. And you know, just all the the drama and the dances like oh like it's the Satie Hawkins like
00:49:31
are you going to ask who are you going to ask and are they going to think they like you or you have a crush on them or
00:49:35
something like just all the silly drama but it's just so it was such a wholesome
00:49:40
time and uh all the dancing and to this day I don't know how public school dances work but our homeschool dancing
00:49:48
was very very fun uh and lighthearted and like I remember my favorite thing was like I specifically like probably
00:49:57
with my gymnastics background like I tried to learn like all the aerials and all the like flips and the tricks and
00:50:02
then my favorite part would be like when they call the snowball which is when everyone gathers together and you get to
00:50:07
go in the middle and like being able to just be like look at me guys like I can do all these tricks like I'm just like
00:50:14
the best swing dancer ever. Yeah. No, the snowball was great because Yeah. If you're not familiar with like dance
00:50:20
culture, snowball is basically like it's the time to show off. It's the time you
00:50:24
you really shake it cuz everybody's looking at you cuz it's a giant everyone
00:50:27
circles up giant circle and one couple goes to the middle and does whatever. Um and they show off their you know their
00:50:35
special dance move and uh yeah. No, that was always so much fun. Those dances are
00:50:40
like they're just it's just such an iconic part of our homeschool experience
00:50:45
that it really is. I know other people who were homeschooled or who have done swing dance and stuff and it's just like
00:50:52
I talk about this with them and they're like that sounds like so much fun. Like
00:50:55
it just I don't I haven't met anybody who has had as close to an experience
00:51:00
when it comes to that stuff as the achieve group solutions Ventura County homechool groups. Yeah. Yeah. Like my
00:51:06
husband was homeschooled and he was just like this was all unheard of to him and
00:51:11
it was just it was so fun that even like once our kids are a little older and we
00:51:15
can you know spare the time in our busy schedules like we've been wanting to you
00:51:19
know go take ballroom dance classes together and just like it's such like a inner child thing for me like so much
00:51:25
fun. Um and and yeah like doing all the the dances and English country dance and
00:51:31
then like also doing like the musicals in the summer. Shout out to the Mitchells. Uh great time there. So fun.
00:51:38
Uh so much fun. Like I just love those times. Yeah. Well, I think too like you said it early on like you thrived in the
00:51:47
extracurricular in the dance and the like in gymnastics and just like all the extracurricular stuff. And that is like
00:51:55
very true of just like our shared homes school experience. But just the homeschool group that we grew up in the
00:52:01
the amount of extracurricular I just I activities was so vast. There was mime and dance and theater and there were
00:52:11
sports and airsoft and cooking and art and like there was anything and everything you could ever imagine was
00:52:18
like available to us and that was I think what just made it so unique and and now like getting to chat with
00:52:27
everybody and hear about their experiences. Of course, like most of us went to the dances. Most of us have that
00:52:31
as a shared experience, but hearing their unique stuff of like you you and your sisters were really into gymnastics,
00:52:38
too. Um, which we haven't even really I mean, we kind of touched on it, but that
00:52:42
was like a big part of your guys' life. You guys worked there and you know, that's like incredible. You know, who
00:52:48
who gets to say I don't know. I don't know. I feel like not that many people
00:52:52
get to be like I was I did gym was my life, you know, like Yes. And especially being able to take my skills and then
00:52:59
doing at the dances being like, I can use these skills here. Full circle. Exactly. Kran, this has been so much
00:53:05
fun. I appreciate you coming on the show, making this happen. Um, I know it's been it's been a while.
00:53:11
It's been a couple months in the making, but I'm glad we got some time. So, I'm
00:53:15
glad you were able to your husband. Thank your husband for taking the kids so you could have some time to chat with
00:53:21
me. Yeah. Yes. It's so fun. I love reminiscing on memories and it's just
00:53:27
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on here. Of course. Of course. It's my
00:53:30
pleasure and you're always welcome back. So awesome. Yeah. Until next time, we'll
00:53:35
see you. All right. Peace. [Music] [Music] [Music]