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What is good my ex-homies? It's your boy Jacob Gen. We're back for another week
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in the exhomechoolers club. And uh I've got another I've got a brand new uh ex-h
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homeschool friend in the clubhouse today. Uh Jaci is joining us and she's going to share her homeschool
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experience. I don't totally know where the conversation is going to go yet, but
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that is aokay. Um, so all that being said, JC, welcome to the Ex Homeschoolers Club. So stoked to have
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you. >> Thank you so much, Jacob. I'm super excited for our conversation.
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>> So tell me a little bit about your homeschool experience. Give me give us
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kind of like the rundown, like how long were you homeschooled, where were you homeschooled, siblings, all that kind of
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stuff. Give us just a little taste of of the homeschool life for you. >> Yeah, for sure. Um, okay. So, I was
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homeschooled K through 12, so all the way through. Um, I have an older sister and she went to kindergarten and half of
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first grade and then my parents pulled her out to homeschool and we just kept going. Um, then I have a younger
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brother, uh, and he was homeschooled K through 12 as well. So, just very committed. Um,
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>> yeah, >> I grew up in the Dallas, Texas area and we kind of moved around a lot in that
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area. So, homeschooling kind of helped out with that. Um, then when I was in high school, we moved to Missouri and
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spent like three years there. And then my senior year of high school, we ended up moving back to Texas.
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Um, and for most of that time we did the uh the ACE curriculum or ACCE. Um, so that was a very like selfdirected
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curriculum. Um, I think other people have talked about it before, but it's like the um
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each grade, each subject is broken up into like 12 pieces, these like little workbooks, and you work on you have to
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finish all of those to finish that grade and that subject. And it's like very
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heavily focused on like you sit down, you you read the instructions, you do the work, and then you even like grade
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your own work. Um, so outside of that, we weren't like super involved in co-ops or clubs or anything
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like that. We tried a co-op for a year and then quit for reasons I can't remember. Um, and then I did Girl Scouts
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for like one year and then quit. Um, so really like thinking back on my homeschool experience, it was very like
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kind of isolated. Like we did the like sitting around the table and like our mom helping us when like we
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were really young, but I would say once we got into like middle school, maybe like fifth grade, it was very much like
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I did my schoolwork alone in my room. >> Yeah. >> And graded everything. So, uh, a little
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bit of a isolating experience, I would say. >> I feel like the ACES, the people who go
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through like the ACE curriculum, that is kind of, it almost feels like that's
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what it's designed to do is like keep you like isolated and give you, like you
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were saying, it's very self-motivated. Like, you can work ahead, you can get
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behind, like it's kind of all on you as the student to like work through uh those textbooks. I'm curious from a
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perspective now, like looking at it, do you feel like that curriculum was good, bad? Like I I I've heard like
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mixed things. Some people love it, some people hate it. Like do you think that it, you know, where do you sit with it,
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I guess, is the question there. >> Yeah, I would say it's not my favorite.
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>> Okay. >> Looking back, I think it has a lot of problems. Um, like a major one is that I
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feel like it was it it wasn't ever super indepth. So, I kind of feel like a lot of it was
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like the Spark Notes version of, you know, learning like in science or social studies. It would just be like,
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you know, a couple of pages of reading about a event or a subject and then you basically just like memorize and
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regurgitate facts. But we were never required to like do research projects or write papers or anything like that. So
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it didn't ever go like super in-depth. Um and then it was also like super super
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religious. So every every single one of those little workbooks had like a moral theme to it. If it was like honesty or
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um tactfulness or faithfulness or whatever, there would be like that that theme that it was also teaching you
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throughout the book and there would be like a memory verse with every book that you had to memorize and you were tested
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on it at the end. So, uh yeah, kind of felt like maybe the the religious aspect was kind of the primary thing and then
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the the educational aspect was secondary. Well, it's interesting because like I I didn't do aces and
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paces and stuff, but I when people describe it and even like when I've pulled it up and looked through kind of
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that curriculum, I it reminds me very much of Awana. I don't know if you're
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familiar with that at all. >> Yep. We were very involved in Awanas. >> So, like it to me it feels like the
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Awana like handbooks that you would like flip through. Um, but obviously with like like you were saying history or
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math or whatever, but just this like significant tie into some of it being religious, which I think is really it's
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kind of an interesting thing to think about people's curriculum being like hyper religious like that because I I
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obviously I had some Christian curriculums as well. science was very young earth creationistbased
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science and things like that. But there was a lot of other subjects like my math
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had nothing to do with religion. It was just like not even word problems were you know it's not it's not like asking
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like oh if Jesus multiplied the fish by x amount what is the number you know it's not stuff like that. It was just
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very like traditional math in a lot of senses. Uh even though the the company themselves
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is a Christian company. And so I think I never really thought about it until now
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connecting with so many other homeschool alumni that it's like, oh no, there is
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curriculum that is just 100% Christian values all the way through everything in it. And so you said you guys primarily
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use the ACES stuff. Did you ever switch it up and do anything else? >> Um, so I we did switch it up a little
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bit when I was in high school. It's actually kind of funny. Um, I was like super into like school and education and
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stuff and so I I think I kind of knew like this isn't like super rigorous and
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I think I wanted something more. So I like I went to my brother, my younger brother, and I was like, listen, we have
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to convince mom and dad to like look into a different curriculum. So I like researched and found some different
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things. And so I think we did something different for um like science and history in high school.
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>> You know what's so interesting about homeschoolers too? I feel like we are
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given this drive to like learn stuff and like to go find and seek out stuff because a and
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challenge ourselves in a lot of ways because like you were saying it's like super easy, not rigorous like and you're
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like I I need something more like you know so let me go do the research and present it to mom and dad. And I feel
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like that's such a like I I feel like that's a little bit of a true statement for me too of like my
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curriculum maybe was a little bit more rigorous than yours, but it definitely was like there was a portion of it that
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was me driving that like well what do you want to learn? Let's learn this thing or like I need something more,
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right? And so do you feel like that has also stuck with you as an adult where you're like, "Hey, when I want to know
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something like I'm just going to go like seek out that information." Yes, it for
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sure has. Um, and honestly, that's something that I feel like has kind of benefited me in my career. Um, like I
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feel like I've had employers who are like, it's just so great that you'll
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just like, you know, you're willing to just jump in and like learn whatever.
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It's like, right. >> Well, yeah. Doesn't everybody do that? Like that's just what I grew up doing.
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>> Yeah. Exactly. I in college, it was funny. My my first semester of college,
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we had a professor who was like, "After you finish this class, you're going to
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be an expert Googler." And I already kind of felt like I was to some degree
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because I was used to having to do that research of like whatever it is you want
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to learn because I mean, again, the homeschool environment, my mom doesn't know diddly squad about, you know, she
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has her area of expertise, right? And that's for her it was like English lit
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and things like that, but when it came to I was really into music and stuff like that, she she knew none of that. So
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like I had to do all my own research and find my own books and all that kind of stuff. And she encouraged that, but it
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was definitely like it was me. It was me driving that conversation. And so um yeah, I think it just carries for a lot
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of us on into adulthood and like you said, careers and stuff like that. going back really quick to kind of the younger
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years and specifically I wanted I want to ask you a little bit about like the move to Missouri and then back to Texas
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and you had already said like co-ops weren't really a big part of your guys'
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life but did you socialize at all or like what did socialization look like for you guys?
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>> Um socialization looked like church. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that that's pretty much it.
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>> Okay. Um, so yeah, I like when I was like in middle school and high school, I
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lived for Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights. Like nothing else in the week mattered. It was Sunday school and youth
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group on Wednesday nights. And yeah, when we were younger, we were involved in Alana. Um, I even did we did like uh
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like a I was on like a Bible quiz team and we won first place at the Texas Bible Quiz tournament. So, I still have
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the medal from that. >> Hell yeah. Um, but yeah, it was mainly just church
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like and anything that even like the co the co-op that we were involved in and the Girl Scout troop I was involved in
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like anything extracurricular like that would have also been like Christian based
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>> I guess. How is the move then to Missouri? Cuz that's like that's a far
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distance to go like but I mean obviously you must have had some friends to some degree but was that difficult like
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considering maybe it wasn't? I don't know. I I guess I'm thinking about like
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some of my best friends. We met at Aana and I mean we were third grade maybe something like that and we were buddies
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all the way through the end of high school and beyond. Um and so moving away for them from them was like insanely
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hard for me. But I'm curious from the perspective of I guess a little bit more
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isolation like was it easy to move to Missouri and then come back or were was that tricky in of itself especially if
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it's only a year it's hard to make friends in a year. >> When I was living in Texas we also kind
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of moved around a lot within the Dallas area but different suburbs. I it was like every maybe like two or three years
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we would move and change churches. So, I had like good friends throughout my younger years, but it was kind of hard
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to like have those longlasting friendships. So, I was kind of like a little bit detached from people. So, I honestly I
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was like excited to move to Missouri for the potential of like maybe having some
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new friends or staying longer or maybe even going to school. I like really wanted to go to school.
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>> Yeah. >> Um but so we moved when I was a freshman in high school.
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>> Okay. >> And so we were there for like my freshman year, my sophomore year, and my
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junior year. And then the summer before my senior year is when we moved back. And that was way harder.
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>> Yeah. because we had like act we had stayed in Missouri for the three years
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in the same place going to the same church and I had like made some really good friends and it was like high school
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so I don't know I just feel like the friendships are different like you can go deeper than
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>> when you're little kids you know >> um so that was just like a lot more
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devastating for me >> so I wonder then like well I Let me ask you this then. So you move back to Texas
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to do senior year. Are is the goal then at like, okay, I'm going to turn 18 and
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then like I want to just get back to Missouri because that's where my people
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are or or were you like, okay, no, I'm going to like finish up here and then
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move on with career stuff or college or whatever that next step was. >> Yeah. No, for sure my main goal was to
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like get back to Missouri. I did kind of contemplate like when I was looking at colleges and stuff, I did look at one
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that was in Texas, but that was never going to happen. I was like, I had to get back to Missouri,
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back to my friends. I It was also just like so it was like a really hard transition because I was I was also like
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dating somebody and um he ended up breaking up with me like two days before I moved.
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>> Oh. So just the whole thing was like really upsetting. So >> yeah,
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>> my senior year was honestly I think one of the worst years of my life just
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because all of that happened and then it was like that whole year I was just alone in my room doing school and like
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watching my friends on Instagram like hang out with each other and do things and I didn't have any
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distractions from that. You know what I mean? Like it wasn't like I went to a
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new school and had to like figure out new dynamics or like worry about a test or
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you know anything like that. It was like no this this was the only thing I could
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focus on and it like consumed me. >> Yeah. >> So I really struggled with like I went
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through a long season of depression like just trying to figure all that out. Um,
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but I was like, I am going back to Missouri and I'm going to like just go back to my old life. Like I just wanted
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everything to be the way that it was before. Um, which actually like if that hadn't
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happened, I honestly don't know if I would have even applied to college at all because
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like a like I don't know about you, but a lot of the rhetoric that I had growing
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up was that like what public school is like evil and like going to corrupt you, you know. Um,
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but then college was also like not something that was like not actively discouraged but also not like really
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encouraged in my family. Like I don't know. My parents were very much like college is kind of a scam. Like
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you're just going to get in a lot of debt and like you don't really need it.
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like you could like teach yourself to do things cuz I was really interested in art and that's what I wanted to do as a
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career was go into like illustration or graphic design and they were like that's
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something that you can like like you have natural talent you can just teach yourself just like go into business for
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yourself but so that that was kind of something that I struggled with but I was like
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well college is the thing that's going to get me back to Missouri so I'm going
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to college >> I think weirdly I had almost kind of like an opposite reaction My parents are
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both college educated people and so I think for them they were viewing they always viewed college as like that's the
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next logical step and they were obviously supportive and we did explore other options of like does Jacob want to
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do a trade or you know he does he want to go into farming I grew up in California so like farming big deal
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there you know kind of a deal or like or I was into music so is he going to start
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a band and are they going to do that you know kind of a thing and so but college
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was definitely kind of I think always been on my brain as just kind of the logical next step. And I'm really glad I
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went because I feel like college is is a lot more than just the classes. It also
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for me was a lot had a lot to do with socialization. I moved uh to Illinois, lived right
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outside of St. Louis, Missouri. And so it gave me an independence that I had not really had before. And in my
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homeschool world, a lot of a lot of the homeschool people I grew up with just kind of I think struggled to launch a
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little bit. And so a lot of them would go to community college and maybe get stuck there for a number of years or
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even if they just did two years. But they I knew that for me if I had done that path, I was going to get stuck and I was
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just going to be in Ventura County for the rest of my life and work whatever jobs I could do. And you know, I just
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needed that out. And so that was that was a big push for college for me. Um, but when you talked about moving back to
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Texas and like watching your friends on Instagram and that kind of being your own thing, I do remember that struggle
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my freshman year of college of like seeing all my friends who were at home and they're hanging out with each other
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and their parties were happening and whatever. And I remember just being like, "Oh, I miss this." But thankfully,
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I had new friends. I had the college friends who could kind of distract me. There were definitely seasons where it
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was a little bit slim, but um yeah, so I just think that's kind of interesting
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because I I definitely relate to you on that aspect of like you and I come from the era of like Instagram somewhat being
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new. So it was like all of a sudden you you could see your friends that were a million miles away. Um but let's talk
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about college like and and getting into college and your like you obviously wanted to do art. Um, and so how was
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that transition into college and kind of for a lot of people it's that first step
00:19:00
of that adulthood, right? And that independence from from under mom and dad's roof.
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>> Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned independence, too, because I
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feel like that is something that I I just don't think that people realize that like homeschool
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students just don't really get like a lot of independence. Like I mean when I was growing up like
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outside of church camp every year like I was constantly with my family or my parents, you know, like even when we
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were like involved in the co-op or whatever, like my mom came to that and like was required to volunteer and
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stuff, you know, there just weren't any spaces where I got to be without my family or without my parents watching
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over me. Right. >> So, that transition was really hard. And I didn't even like go live in dorms.
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Like my sister, my older sister actually stayed behind. She didn't come back to
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Texas with us. She stayed in Missouri cuz she had already graduated. Um, so I was able to live with her cuz I was
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like, there's just no way I can live on campus in the dorms. That's totally
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terrifying. Um, so we like lied to the college and said that I was living with my grandparents, but I was actually
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living with my sister. Um, so yeah, it was really interesting. I at the really struggled with this
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tension all of my freshman year because I had wanted to go to school so bad when I was
00:20:39
a kid. like I would role play um being in public school. Um like there was this private school that I really wanted to
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go to when I was a kid, but it was too expensive. And so one year I made my mom buy me like a green polo shirt like they
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wore and a khaki skirt. And I would get dressed up in the morning in my uniform with shoes and I had like my desk on one
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wall and then my dresser on the opposite wall. My desk was the classroom and the
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dresser was my locker. So I would like do a subject and then get up and like take three turns around the room to get
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to my locker and get my next book and then circle back to my classroom. and I like made a student ID and I would like
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record morning announcements on my phone. Like it was really sad. >> I I just want to chime in to say like I
00:21:34
think I I'm not laughing at you. Like I definitely I think it's it's so
00:21:38
interesting to hear because I think there is this u misconception maybe that homeschoolers are like in their PJs all
00:21:47
day and like and there is >> I'm never in my PJs. >> Yeah. there. But I think there is
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there's like both s sides to the coin. When when I started homeschooling, my
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mom was like, "You got to be dressed and ready and at the kitchen table by X
00:21:59
time." And then by the time I was in high school, >> she was just like, "Just get it done
00:22:02
kind of a deal." Um, and so I didn't necessarily have the drive, I think,
00:22:07
that that you're talking about of like wear a full uniform or anything like that. Um, but it is interesting because
00:22:13
you're not the only person I've I've heard talk about kind of fantasizing
00:22:17
about being in the classroom and creating that structure for themselves of like, okay, the bell rings and I got
00:22:22
to go do this and then, you know, they create that series of events that gets them to the next class. Um, and so I
00:22:28
think that's an interesting thing to notice uh for yourself honestly of like
00:22:34
it took you you needed this kind of like uh habit building thing to like I don't
00:22:40
I don't know what what it is but it's it's you know what I'm saying like it's
00:22:43
it's kind of getting you prepared for like that next that transition into next
00:22:47
class or whatever it is. And so um so that's that's definitely interesting.
00:22:51
And I'm curious like did once you got to college like it obviously is a little bit closer to
00:22:57
that. You have time in between. So was it did it live up to the hype or were you kind of like okay no never mind.
00:23:04
Like I I actually kind of like having my own space and ability to kind of decide
00:23:10
when I'm going to do things. >> No, I really loved it. Like I loved the
00:23:16
whole like picking out your schedule, um which classes you were going to do and then having all of that structure.
00:23:24
Something about that was just like really attractive to me and like I got a lot of satisfaction out of. Um so in
00:23:33
terms of like the academics, I really enjoyed it and I did really well academically like my whole freshman
00:23:42
year. I think I got A's in every class. Like, that wasn't a problem, which I was
00:23:46
kind of nervous about because you don't really know when you're homeschooled all
00:23:50
the way through how you're actually stacking up to your peers. Like, I could
00:23:54
be totally stupid and have no idea. >> But, but then I kind of got to college
00:24:00
and realized like, oh, there's a lot of people who like don't actually care. And
00:24:05
like it's that like putting forth of effort and like showing that you really
00:24:10
care that like the professors really >> appreciate and will work with you if
00:24:16
you're like not getting something. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. I mean, I had a professor who gave
00:24:20
me an A solely for the fact that one, I I I gave a in class. And two, when I was struggling, I went to him and I
00:24:29
said I was having some some personal life stuff happened. And I was just like, "Hey, like I'm really I'm
00:24:33
struggling mentally, but I I want to do well in your class. Like, is there something we can work out?" And he
00:24:38
literally told me, "If you come to class once a week, so three-day class once a
00:24:42
week, and then come and meet me for coffee on a different day and we talk about the Wall Street Journal for 5 10
00:24:48
minutes, you'll get an A." >> I was like, "What?" Like, and so to your
00:24:53
point, like it really just takes the showing of effort. It's not always, this
00:24:58
isn't true for every professor, but it's it's not always >> just going to class like is going to get
00:25:04
you the A. Sometimes it is that showing of effort. Your teachers will respect that. And so anyway, continue on with
00:25:09
your story though. >> Yes. So I I did really enjoy it academically. Um >> but there was just this tension of like
00:25:20
just everything that I had been taught. I w I was going to a secular university first of all. I because I really wanted
00:25:29
to pursue art and design and the art and design programs at Christian colleges were just not good, not worth it.
00:25:37
So, I went to a public university and it had a really great art program. Um, but I was just not prepared. Like,
00:25:44
it was a culture shock, I will just say. >> Okay. like >> I mean you kind of know what you're
00:25:49
getting into from like movies and TV and books and stuff but then when you're like actually in that
00:25:56
environment um I just had no experience with like being around people who were different
00:26:05
than me and like I had just grown up believing all these things that I struggled to like have empathy for
00:26:13
people and like make connections and it was hard for me to trust people. Like I just felt like I couldn't trust any of
00:26:20
my professors because they like weren't Christians or like I I don't know. I was just like, well,
00:26:27
it's not really worth it for me to like make deep friendships with people who
00:26:31
are like going to drag me down or like >> not encourage me in my faith, things
00:26:36
like that. >> Um, so that was really challenging. I wonder if to like because you and I when
00:26:43
we had talked previously, we had figured out like you and I graduated the same year, graduated 2014. Date ourselves a
00:26:48
little bit, sorry. Um, >> but I know that that was kind of in an era where like the God's Not Dead movie
00:26:55
had come out and was like this big. I remember watching that and I remember thinking the same thing of like college
00:27:00
is this thing where professors are they're going to be atheists or agnostic or some other religion and they're going
00:27:07
to be against me and they're not going to stand with me. And so that that kind
00:27:10
of to some degree pushed me into going to a Christian college. But even there, I mean there's just because you go to a
00:27:18
Christian college doesn't mean everybody's a Christian. Um, and so but I'm interested like is that when you
00:27:23
talk about like the media that's influencing you to say okay like this is what college is like is that kind of was
00:27:29
that at all shaping what you were thinking going into these classrooms? >> Yes. And I definitely like felt that
00:27:35
God's not dead pressure to like take a stand in every class. Um, which looking back on some of it like
00:27:45
makes me cringe so hard. Like, you know, in English classes we had to like pick political topics and like I would write
00:27:53
papers defending like homeschool and religion and like in art classes we also had to do a political project and I did
00:28:02
this big thing about abortion which like looking back feels like it was just like
00:28:07
kind of insensitive and I don't know there was just like it was just like I had to like be this
00:28:15
there was so much pressure to like be a representative that I felt like it kind of got in the
00:28:21
way of learning, >> you know, cuz it was like I like it was like I was going into all these
00:28:27
environments not open to anything. Like I was like I was like, "Okay, I already
00:28:32
have like >> like I already know what I believe and like my job is to make sure that nobody
00:28:39
can change my mind >> and like drag me down." Did that also hinder you from making friends because
00:28:47
of that kind of closed offness to like I I like I'm thinking for myself I'm
00:28:53
like I remember people you know kind of saying things about whether they they were even like people who were Catholic
00:28:59
I remember just get it was kind of a non-starter for me of like I don't really want to be friends with you but
00:29:03
did that also hinder you from from building friendships by just saying like this is who I am and I have to protect
00:29:10
my my religion. Yeah, for sure. Like I like was friendly with classmates but never made any friends on campus. All of
00:29:22
my friends were that I made were through my church's college program >> I guess. Well, when slash if did that
00:29:31
like break for you where you were like, okay, I not everything has to be a battle, so to speak, of like, you know,
00:29:41
um I I know for me, I was like 21ish by the time it really I think clicked for me that I was like, you know what, I can
00:29:49
just be friends with people and I can also just like go into something even like like I went to my first like yoga
00:29:56
session uh that was like a legit yoga session when I was 21 and kind of hearing that
00:30:02
and having this little voice in my head that's like, you know, maybe this is
00:30:07
satanic or something like that, but kind of fighting against that to some degree.
00:30:11
Um but just kind of being open to more experiences like when or did that like click for you where you were like,
00:30:18
"Okay, I can I can let off the brakes here a little bit and just be more inviting?"
00:30:23
>> Yeah, I mean it definitely did feel like everything was a battle. like you said.
00:30:28
>> So my So I did my freshman year and then I ended up dropping out. I think because
00:30:37
in part like I just felt tired >> Yeah. >> of feeling like everything was a battle
00:30:42
and like I was like why am I going to school and like paying this money if like I
00:30:48
like kind of don't believe anything they're saying you know and I feel like
00:30:53
I can't trust anybody. And I also was just like still really struggling with
00:30:57
depression. Um, you know, I had moved back and like not, you know, not all the relationships were the same. Like it was
00:31:04
a lot harder to like pick those things up. Um, so I was really depressed and um, I met my now husband then too.
00:31:20
Um, and he like he went to public school but grew up like very religious also. And he
00:31:28
wanted to like get married really fast. And in my mind I was like, okay, keep going to secular college or get married
00:31:37
and start a family. And I was like, obviously God wants me to get married and start a family. So let's go with
00:31:44
that option. So I ended up dropping out of school and getting married. And even though it was like very rushed and like
00:31:50
looking back I wouldn't recommend that to anybody. We were both 19. Um it did
00:31:56
end up working out. We're still together and like he's amazing. Um and we have a
00:32:01
great relationship and two little girls. Um I feel like that could have like turned out way worse if it had been
00:32:08
anybody else, you know? Um, but yeah, it wasn't honestly until way later that I feel like I kind of was
00:32:19
able to look back and realize like, oof, I feel like I made a lot of mistakes there. Like I feel like I should have
00:32:29
you know kept going with school and like um you know just learned to be a little bit
00:32:36
more open and like um be open to more experiences. Like I feel like I really like shut a
00:32:45
lot of things down and limited myself a lot. Um, it honestly wasn't until like
00:32:53
maybe co that like just to be totally honest co happened and we had to like stop going
00:33:01
to church. Um, and that was like the first time that I I was like I just felt like
00:33:08
relieved because I was like, "Okay, I don't have to like like fight this battle anymore of like
00:33:16
trying to like live up to all these expectations." Um, so that was like an interesting
00:33:24
journey. I now currently am still like a person of faith and I still like believe
00:33:30
in Jesus and like we are going to a different church now and we're really involved in our church and our
00:33:36
community. Um so but yeah, it's interesting. It was like I don't know now I just feel like
00:33:48
I I am able to like in like enter into spaces where like maybe I don't necessarily agree with
00:33:55
everybody but I don't feel like I'm in danger of like being attacked. I think
00:34:01
that's one of the most interesting like changes about a person when they kind of like get to that point of like
00:34:10
it's not always acceptance but it is just like you were saying that willingness to like enter into a space
00:34:15
that is like unfamiliar or a little bit scary or a little bit out of touch and I
00:34:20
think co did that for a lot of people. I know I transitioned a lot during co I was already deconstructing religion at
00:34:27
that point for me um and had stopped going to church and like that in and of itself was like this very freeing thing
00:34:33
because I think we tie ourselves to it of just kind of this um weekly thing to check off the list.
00:34:40
Um and I had taken a stop from that. So I was like okay well like you know I I was trying to let my faith be my own at
00:34:48
that point. Um but it it it's interesting that like for me around 21 was when I started to open up to like
00:34:59
okay I need to I need to ask questions of like what are these other spaces like? And the the reason I did it was
00:35:06
because I worked a job that required me to work on Sundays which I hated and I would beg for like can I just get one
00:35:12
Sunday a month to like go to church kind of a thing. Um, and I never got it. But
00:35:18
my co-workers, we were such a diverse group and we kind of decided that we were going to like go out to lunch when
00:35:25
we get off work, go out to early dinner or whatever, and we would just have conversations and we were just vastly
00:35:31
different people. You had me, the good little Christian boy, and then you had a one of us was Catholic and one of us was
00:35:36
a Buddhist and somebody was agnostic and like it was just really interesting. And
00:35:41
so once we broken through, you know, the very casual get to know each other questions, right, of where did you grow
00:35:47
up and all the boring stuff and we got into, you know, the deeper, more philosophical thing, I realized that all
00:35:55
of us wanted very similar things, right? We wanted we wanted love, we wanted acceptance, we wanted other people to
00:36:02
feel loved and respected and and those types of things. And so it became easier to kind of see the world in less of a
00:36:09
battle zone. so to speak because I was like I think everyone just kind of wants the same thing but we're just getting
00:36:16
there different ways. I'm curious like where you're at today. Obviously you
00:36:21
said you know you guys have transitioned churches and things like that but as you
00:36:25
have continued to kind of explore this like okay I'm more I'm willing to put
00:36:29
the battle gloves down a little bit and and be more open to it. um you know, how has that shaped like your
00:36:38
view of like homeschooling and and and where homeschooling should maybe kind of reposition itself going forward? Um I
00:36:48
don't know. Any thoughts there? >> Yeah, it's it's been like a weird
00:36:53
journey because I feel like when I was in college, I was very like pro- homeschool.
00:37:02
Um, but then like further into my adult life as I kind of like struggled a little bit in career
00:37:13
and like transitioning to adulthood and feeling like ooh like maybe I've been a
00:37:18
little disenfranchised like the things that they told me were going to like work out or not working out and like I
00:37:25
kind of needed all these things that I was pushed away from. Um, after after kind of realizing that, then I
00:37:36
think I went through a period where I was like very anti-homeschool and like really passionately against it.
00:37:44
And now I think I'm like somewhere in the middle where like I think it can be done in like a
00:37:53
positive way, but I also just think that there's like so many valuable things that you miss
00:38:01
out on if you're like honestly committed to it like all the way. I don't know. Like I I
00:38:10
really like I understand like when kids are little and stuff like homeschooling is attractive, but I think once you
00:38:19
start getting closer to adulthood, like you really need those you need to start training those muscles of like dealing
00:38:27
with people, dealing with hard situations, um and like just being at like more in
00:38:34
the real world before you get to adulthood. I'm with you. I I think one of the things I hear when I talk to
00:38:41
homesooled parents or like even my own parents and the decisions that they make and the decision that they made to
00:38:46
homeschool is a lot of times it's the protection of like I want to protect my
00:38:49
kids from the world or I want to give them the best or I want to cater it to their learning style or you know which
00:38:55
are a lot of time they're sometimes valid reasons to do that. Um, but yeah, they there's this I think struggle once
00:39:03
those kids, like you were saying, they get older, we get in the high school era, and it's like to let go, to let
00:39:08
them go out and like experience because at some point you're going to experience
00:39:11
the real world. And so the hard the closer you hold on to that, you know, that that closed fist or you keep that
00:39:18
bubble not popped, it's like the long the the the less control you have when
00:39:23
they get outside of that bubble or they get outside of that closed fist, right? because um I think we just have the
00:39:29
opportunity like you were saying early those early adulthood years that for those high school years particularly to
00:39:36
kind of introduce things and have those tough conversations um because I don't
00:39:40
know about you there was plenty of conversations I'm like man I wish my parents would have just had this talk
00:39:44
with me um and we could have just you know rather than it being something that was hidden away um or something that was
00:39:52
just like denied to me can we actually like discuss it you And um you know that's so now as an adult I get
00:40:01
to do those conversations. But uh but um so I'm interested. You said you have two little kids and where
00:40:10
where are you sitting with like their education as as they're getting older?
00:40:14
What are you thinking? Are you thinking homeschooling? Are you thinking public school? It sounds like you want to be
00:40:18
involved. Um but where where's your head at with that? >> Yeah. So, my oldest is starting
00:40:25
kindergarten next fall and I'm super excited for her. We have decided to do public school. Um, and yeah, I mean,
00:40:36
picking schools, it's like it is like a really difficult decision. I mean, I'm
00:40:42
I'm going to be honest, there's like no part of me that desires to homeschool.
00:40:46
Part of that is because of like my experience. And I think that like as adults and as parents, you kind of like
00:40:54
always want to give your kids the thing that you didn't have. Um like I think
00:41:00
about often like I think my parents didn't have super great experience in public schools and then they wanted to
00:41:06
give us something different and now I'm going the other way and maybe my kids
00:41:10
will feel differently and homeschool their kids because of their experience. So I don't know. Um but yeah, we decided
00:41:18
to public school. Um, and I feel good about that decision. Um, but I of course want to remain open.
00:41:27
Like I don't want to be too rigid with anything. So the plan is to like just
00:41:34
have a quick check-in every year, kind of re-evaluate. Um, but I'm pretty sure we're just going
00:41:43
to public school. Well, I think the other thing that a lot of people who come from the homeschool world and even
00:41:49
and then put their kids into public school or private school or maybe a more traditional school environment, one of
00:41:55
the things I hear them talk a lot about is the wanting to be involved in their kids' life a lot. And so I think
00:42:03
I think the messaging I got as a kid was like if you go to public school like your parents kind of don't care. like
00:42:08
they sit they ship you off in the morning, you come back in the afternoon >> and they're they're like not involved
00:42:14
which was cuz I did go to public school for 2 years and that was not my experience in public school. My mom
00:42:19
would walk me to the school bus, she would send me off, have packed my lunch, all those kinds of things. I went to
00:42:24
school, I came home, she'd check up, how's your how's your homework going?
00:42:27
You know, do you need any help? Do I need to meet with the teacher? Anything like that. And so it really came down to
00:42:34
that. And I I recently had a teacher on the show and that was something she talked about too was the fact that like
00:42:41
the parents who get involved in their kids education and just come in and ask questions, right? Or just are there when
00:42:46
they get home or help them with homework or whatever encourage the education, right? And so and so it's a lot easier
00:42:55
for that kid to enjoy public school and stuff can still happen of course but it's it's
00:43:02
I think everybody I've talked to it just kind of comes down to this like parents
00:43:06
being involved to some degree in their kids education. >> Yes. Yeah. We were planning to be
00:43:10
involved and I honestly I think like a temptation for me is going to be like to be too involved because I'm like really
00:43:17
excited about all of these things that I didn't get to participate in. And so I
00:43:23
know I'm like okay don't become the parent who like lives by game through
00:43:27
their children. So but I'm really excited for like book fairs and just for her to have access to
00:43:35
like clubs and sports and and things like that. Yeah. I'm curious too, JC, from the
00:43:42
perspective of your education as you've looked back on it and maybe you've
00:43:47
recognized gaps or things that you missed, like how have you or have you sought to like fill any of those voids?
00:43:57
We talked a little bit about like the desire to learn, right, that us homeschoolers have. But like I'm
00:44:02
curious, like the example for me is like I know that science is like I suck at science. I don't understand it kind of a
00:44:11
thing. And so so I have definitely invested a little bit more time and energy into like kind of not taking a
00:44:19
science class, but at least trying to explore some of that. uh whether it's YouTube videos or podcasts or something
00:44:24
or reading a book, but has there been anything that you were like, "Okay, I
00:44:28
missed out on this, but like as an adult now, I'm going to go back and relearn
00:44:32
that thing." >> I don't know if there's any specific like subject. Um
00:44:39
I do. So, I was always interested in art and design. Um and that's what I wanted to
00:44:47
do. And so, I didn't finish my degree. I did end up going back to school like two
00:44:54
years after I dropped out my freshman year and did a few more semesters and then ended up dropping out again. Um,
00:45:02
but I started working at a company um, a local jewelry company that was like a small business that were just starting
00:45:11
up and I was just like working in the warehouse. But I think it was that homeschool energy in me. I was like,
00:45:19
"Okay, like how can I somehow insert like the thing that I like to do into my
00:45:25
job?" >> Yeah. >> And so I was slowly able to kind of work my way into a design role
00:45:34
um and kind of climbed the ladder there as the company grew. Um and then I ended
00:45:39
up leaving that company, but now I work and do um product design and illustration for another jewelry company
00:45:46
that's like all kids jewelry. So, it's pretty heavily illustration focused. So,
00:45:51
I actually ended up like landing on my feet and like doing a job that I really love and think is really cool.
00:45:58
>> Well, let me ask you this. When does when did the the love for art start? Did
00:46:04
that start as a kid or was that a later thing for you? >> Yeah, it's definitely something that I
00:46:09
loved like from like like childhood. And I do think that that was one like really positive thing
00:46:16
about homeschooling is that I did have so much time to focus on like the thing that I loved. Like I don't know how much
00:46:24
time you spent on school, but I was done by noon every day and had like >> it was like you have to finish by noon
00:46:32
so we can watch Seventh Heaven reruns during lunch and then the whole afternoon was like just doing art and
00:46:40
reading books. And so I do think that that was something that was really positive about my homeschooling
00:46:44
experience is that like I was able to like focus like on developing my creative energy a lot without having
00:46:51
like maybe teachers like fit me into a box or like tell me how to do things a certain way. I was just kind of like
00:46:59
able to let that grow naturally. Um and then I do like still to this day love reading. I feel like something that I've
00:47:06
heard from a lot of um people who are public school, mainly like men, is that it just made them hate reading. Um and
00:47:16
I've I've always loved it. Like that was something that my parents like really
00:47:19
encouraged. And I feel like that was like a big part of my education. Like most of what I learned was just from
00:47:26
reading. >> Yeah. I think you're on to something of like guys not having a desire to read.
00:47:33
And I think what it is to be very honest, I don't think any of them have read a good story or they've been forced
00:47:39
to read a story, right? And and so they fight we just naturally guys tend to fight against that. And so I'm always
00:47:46
like just go to the library and just like start reading the backs of books and one that sticks to you just just
00:47:51
read that and then and then come back and tell me if you enjoy the story or not. Um because yeah, like you I
00:47:57
freaking love reading. Uh, I was talking to somebody yesterday and was telling them how when I was, I don't know, in
00:48:04
grade school or something, we read Little House on the Prairie and I read all seven books in a week and my mom was
00:48:09
like, "Okay, like what are we supposed to do now?" Like that was a part of the
00:48:13
curriculum. Um, and I just ripped through books uh, left, right, and center. So, I think, yeah, highly
00:48:21
encourage people to to read books. I'm curious from an art perspective, do you
00:48:25
have a particular type of art that you enjoy the most? Like is it drawing, painting, sculpting? Like is there
00:48:31
something that sticks to you? Obviously sounds like you do a lot more graphic and illustration work now, but is there
00:48:37
is there a particular medium that is just like the thing for you? >> Yeah, I love drawing. I mean, mostly now
00:48:44
I work with like Adobe Illustrator um and creating like vector graphics, but when I was in college, like I loved
00:48:53
my drawing classes, just like pencil, graphite, charcoal, that sort of thing. And like if I could like go back and
00:49:03
redo it, like I would love to have like explored that and and just grown that skill, but I was terrified of taking the
00:49:14
life drawing class. So >> I'm assuming that's the one with the nude models potentially.
00:49:19
>> Yeah. >> I was like, I can't do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know what's funny? I
00:49:24
just had someone on who who talked about taking the life um uh what do you call it? Life
00:49:30
>> life drawing. >> Life life drawing and talked about being very worried about the nude models and
00:49:36
getting some advice. So yeah. Um but I think I would be freaked out a little bit too. I'm not going to lie.
00:49:43
Especially in the co in the college years. Um yeah. Yeah. Nudity terrified me. Um
00:49:49
but um hey well it's also it's never too late to to pick up a old skill. I've
00:49:53
been thinking a lot about for me it was music played guitar for many years kind of life gets busy right and you just
00:50:02
kind of set it aside and I I've been thinking more and more about >> I think it's time to break that back out
00:50:07
and maybe maybe that be the new skill for for the year or well I guess it's an
00:50:11
old skill but just to kind of brush back up on it because it is never too late to
00:50:16
learn and that's the thing that I keep trying to remind myself is it's like we
00:50:21
might have missed out on stuff. You know, we might, you know, have not explored certain things, but it's never
00:50:28
too late. We got so much time left. Like, we can do whatever we want. >> Yeah. We're still young. 30.
00:50:34
>> Yeah. You know, >> exactly. Exactly. 30 is just the beginning. >> Yes.
00:50:40
>> Yeah. Well, cool. Jay-Z, is there anywhere we haven't gone in the homeschool arena or any of the topics
00:50:46
we've talked about today that we need to hit on? Um, you know, I always ask people like, "You got a cringey home
00:50:53
school moment or something that just stands out as maybe like one of the best." I I I tend to tell people like
00:51:00
swing dancing was like a big highlight for me of just like I enjoyed. It's It's
00:51:05
one of the weird things that I did as a homeschool kid. That and English country
00:51:08
dance. And I just love it and I still look back on it so fondly. But is there anything like that that sticks out where
00:51:14
you're just like, "Man, I don't know that I would have had that experience if
00:51:17
I had gone to public school." I I did I did take a cringey class. The one year
00:51:21
that we did a co-op, um I was in a puppetry class. >> Hell yes. >> So yeah, we spent the whole semester
00:51:32
building our own puppets and then at the end of the semester we put on a showcase
00:51:37
for the co-op. Um and our puppets lip sync to um Christian covers of Walk Like an Egyptian. So, it was Walk Like a
00:51:49
Christian. And then there was another one, but I can't remember what it was,
00:51:53
but it was so cringey. >> I I love that. I love that kind of stuff. Like, >> it's like, why why do we keep choosing
00:52:00
to do these things? >> No, I love stuff like that. I think I think I I know that it's not exclusively
00:52:08
homeschool kids that that do those types of things. Like, I was heavily involved
00:52:13
in theater. I filmed the whole movie with my friends. like we did a bunch of those types of things, right? That
00:52:20
looking back on it, I'm like, that was so cringey. But then I start thinking
00:52:23
about it and I'm like, but I had so much fun doing it. And it also is such a good
00:52:28
conversation starter with someone when you can kind of break out that like, >> oh yeah, I've done this thing like I was
00:52:34
a mime. >> Who in the freaking world, >> right? It's so random. And so for you,
00:52:41
you get this cool story of like, hey, like Yeah, I know what goes into making a puppet. Yeah. And one one day at work
00:52:49
uh like a year ago, we had like a everybody bring a random object into work day and I brought my puppet because
00:52:56
I still have it and it was a hit. Like they won the day. >> People love that kind of stuff, man.
00:53:02
It's, you know, so anyway, anything else before I let you go? This has been a
00:53:07
wonderful conversation. I've really enjoyed getting to know you some more. >> Yeah. Yeah, this was awesome. I feel
00:53:12
like I could talk forever about like homeschooling culture and weird experiences. So, this was super fun. I
00:53:20
feel like we covered a lot of good stuff. >> Yeah. Well, thank you once again. And uh
00:53:25
maybe we'll have you come back and we can tell we can do some more homeschool
00:53:28
stories at some point. >> But JC, this has been amazing. To the audience, I hope you guys enjoyed. Uh
00:53:34
it's just like fun just look at homeschool life and JC's story. And uh if you enjoyed it, leave a like, leave a
00:53:41
subscription, um leave a comment. All the internet things, you know how to do them. And uh until next time, we'll see
00:53:47
you. Peace.