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well we are back again in the ex
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homeschoolers Club welcome my exh homey
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friends it is your favorite ex
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homeschooler that is Jacob to the Gooden
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um it's
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me and welcome back to the best ex-
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homeschooler podcast this side of the
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internet uh today I've got some special
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guests they're friends of mine uh
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colleagues if you will bosses uh they're
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they're they're amazing women and they
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are not homeschooled nor were they
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homeschooled moms uh but today I've got
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my lovely friends Dr chz Ley and
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Stephanie boy on with us today we're
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going to touch on a little bit on sex a
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little bit on therapy a little bit on
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this a little bit on that you're gonna
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you're going to hear why in a minute but
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um chz and Stephanie they are the hosts
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of seven on Sundays which is a podcast
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for young adults uh primarily in their
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20s and they they interview them and
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they ask us questions about sex
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relationships life mental health all all
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the things so uh yeah so without further
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Ado Stephanie chz welcome to the X home
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school Club thank you so much for having
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us Jacob this is
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exciting yeah I'm so stoked to have you
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guys and uh first and foremost thank you
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for coming on the show we know each
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other because I I edit your podcast
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um you do a great job of editing the
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podcast and you get to hear it all
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firsthand which is which is a a a good
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hot seat to be in yes no I have learned
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I have learned a lot from your guys'
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show to be honest which um
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like I said at the top of the show seven
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on Sundays it'll be linked down below
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but um go check it out the cool thing
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about seven on Sundays is it's an
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Anonymous podcast so you guys really get
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people in there who come in and share
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their stories in a very safe environment
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it feels like I've been on there I've
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shared my story you can look me up
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mine's the Drew interview um I'm gonna
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dox myself there but only because I've
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told that story on this podcast um but
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yeah I love the I love the format that
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you guys have built and yeah I know chz
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you you are obviously a licensed therap
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therapist uh for family and marriage
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stuff and and Stephanie you are like a
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sex expert uh in some circles you're
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like the porn mom you've done a Ted Talk
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on pornography and it's the addictive
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nature of it things like that and so um
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so I guess first and foremost to kick
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off the show I got to ask you you know
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you're not tied into the homeschool
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circles as much so when you hear
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homeschool kid homeschool parents
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homeschool families like what kind of
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Pops in your brain do you guys have an
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image of that have experience with
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homeschool families at all uh yeah I'll
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jump in I actually do have one semester
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under my belt of teaching my daughter uh
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homeschool it was one of the hardest
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experiences of my life I have to say you
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have to I praise to any parent who is
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doing homeschooling because it's not
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easy um I started when my daughter was a
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sophomore in high school just for one
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semester and I was like okay I can't do
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this anymore but um I guess as far as
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like what I think of homeschool and how
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it's relevant to our
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topic I feel like and I could be wrong
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um that H school is done I would say
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probably the majority of the kids are
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from some Christian background that
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would be my
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assumption and I would also say that
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having grown up catholic christian uh we
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also have the most challenging time
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talking about sex so I would think that
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these kids uh are left even more in the
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dark about sex than your average kid
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who's already in the dark so it's like
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double
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dark yes I I would definitely agree with
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that um yeah before I tap too much into
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that chz do you have anything to add
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there your your opinion of what you
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think of when you think of homeschool
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families and peoples yeah so I worked
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with families that have homeschooled and
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also some of my really good friends very
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close friends have homeschooled and for
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different reasons one was because
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because her son got really sick in um
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early on um early on and so he would H
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school but he would come to some classes
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with my son and so I had that experience
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and I can tell you kind
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of um I think it was hard for him
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because of the kids because the kids
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were confused and that was many years
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ago and then recently I have a very good
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friend who homeschooled four of her kids
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and now this is the first year I think
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it's the first year all of them are in
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uh regular public schools and she
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finally has a little bit of life which
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is amazing but um but she didn't do it
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neither of them did it for religious
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reasons they did it because they weren't
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happy with mainly the social emotional
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things going on at at schools really
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that was the main reason it wasn't
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academics but our kids Excel both those
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kids excelled very rapidly of course um
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but anyway but those were two personal
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experiences then I have worked with
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families too that that have chosen that
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so you know we're a bunch of
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weirdos that is the perception that is
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the perception so what I wondered for
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the for the kids that went back to
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public schools now and I don't know
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enough to ask my friend in detail but
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I'll see her tonight actually so I will
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ask her but I want to know how they're
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adjusting because one was in high school
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so how does that how does that work you
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know that's a great question because I
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think so my hes School experience I
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think was slightly different than a lot
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of people's because my mom involved me
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very early I I started in second grade I
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was homeschooled through through high
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school um but very early on she involved
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me and my sister in like homeschool
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community so we were around other people
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we took classes with other kids so we
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had kind of that social
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aspect obviously still a little bit
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socially awkward at times but but but we
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had a lot more social aspects we were
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involved in a lot more Church things we
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were like she made a huge emphasis in
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that not every family does that right
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so you know it's a double-edged sword uh
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when it comes to that kind of a thing
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but a lot of my friends growing up we
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were all in the same groups together so
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we had friends we had we had people to
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kind of have that a few of them did go
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to public high school and from what I
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remember a lot of them I think it's
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always awkward at the beginning right
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but even like if you were to move States
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you know when you when you change
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schools it's a little awkward because
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people have their friend groups and you
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got to break into it um but from what I
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understand a lot of them adapted pretty
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quickly the thing that a lot of people I
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think struggled with was they were so
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used to their homeschool experience
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being well if I do my math in 30 minutes
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math is done for the day right as
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opposed to a public or private school
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it's like you're kind of Trapped in that
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room for how long an hour two hours you
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know um doing the same thing it's like
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you know the work at own pace thing
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doesn't doesn't fly in a public school
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like it does in a in a home school
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setting so there's that but uh Stephanie
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I am interested so you you said you
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homeschooled for like a
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semester and what was there what was the
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reasoning behind that maybe you gave it
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and I missed it but I didn't my daughter
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was bullied in school so I took her out
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and uh we actually had a really great
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experience uh I
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think the the woman who ran the
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homeschool organization ation here she
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was a math teacher and she was an uh
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English teacher so the ones that I would
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have been the most concerned about she
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covered those two and was great with my
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daughter and I think my daughter like
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did really well in math because of that
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when she then went back to
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school um it was the other subjects
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where I was like you know okay what do
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you want to learn okay forensics okay I
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got like three forensics textbooks and
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I'm like read this chapter you know I
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was doing my thing I wasn't just used to
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it but it was actually kind of fun
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figuring out how to test for that like I
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ultimately ended up having her explain
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forensics things to me you know like I'd
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have her talk me through what she
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learned which was kind of fun and we'd
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watch you know like
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murder crime things and videos there's
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great there's actually great supplements
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online for homeschool kids absolutely
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yeah no I I did a whole in high school I
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got really into I got really into war
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for some reason and like the history of
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wars and things like that um I was
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really into Weaponry um you know average
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boy stuff uh kind of a thing but my dad
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who he had kind of taken over as my as
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my teacher we did a whole year of
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studying all of the wars specifically
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world wars but watched a lot of movies
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read a lot of books did a lot of museums
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uh that kind of thing uh didn't live far
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from like the Ronald rean Museum and
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presidential museums tend to do a lot of
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really good exhibits and things like
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that so uh anyway but yeah to your point
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it it lended itself to things that I was
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interested in got to pursue those which
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was super super cool um okay so why do I
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have you guys on the show today so also
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to fill in our audience Stephanie and
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chz are going to come on individually as
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well in later episodes and we're going
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to dive more into like their specific
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niches of what they do and and things
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like that but as many of you know on the
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show we started touching on a lot more
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things like mental health we've gotten
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really outside of the like just fluffy
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home School remembrance type stuff and
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so I felt like it was important to bring
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people who they're Professionals in this
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they they have some knowledge under
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their belts to talk about things like
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sex to talk about difficult
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relationships and that kind of a thing
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and so Steph chz you guys were the
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perfect people uh you landed in my lap
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um to come talk about this but I wanted
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to first kind of ask you guys a little
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bit about seven on Sundays and where the
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idea for that stems from how you guys
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found each other I know you guys have
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been friends for a long time but but
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like how you guys kind of came together
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to create seven on Sundays and I know
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you're also writing a book but what was
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really the the Catalyst for all of that
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Dr Shez and I do very similar uh have a
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very well we have a very similar love
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and affinity for kids in high school and
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college um and I think that's you know I
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think we both have a real comfort in
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talking to kids uh and I think we' both
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share very open relationships with our
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kids so for us these conversations came
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more naturally than we see with like our
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you know probably our friends most of
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our friends can't talk to their kids in
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the same way that we talk to them myself
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was a sex educator Dr Shez with her
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expertise in like addiction and all that
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kind of stuff she can talk to her kids
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about you know relationships and
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addiction and things like that so we had
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an a facility if you will um in these
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conversations just by our backgrounds
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and what we do and uh we began talking
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after my
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podcast and uh we have a I I was
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sexually assaulted in college and um
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doctor Shez she'll tell her a story
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about you know what brought her into
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what she does but we we would talk and
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we would have these really interesting
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conversations like I wish kids would see
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this blah blah blah and I was doing
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these circles with young kids Dr Shez
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does a lot of group therapy um work and
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loves group therapy and I was doing
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group therapy without doing group
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therapy I was doing group therapy with
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like sex and and porn and how that's
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impacting relationships so we both had
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this affinity for wanting people to be
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together and that we know in group um no
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one feels alone and so that was sort of
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the Genesis of it and we wanted to
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create it real live events and then we
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were like as we talked more and more and
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we had different issues that came up we
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were like why don't we just start it
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with a podcast because then we can get
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to the groups and we can get to doing
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all that stuff but in the meanwhile all
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of these juicy
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important you know um relevant
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conversations can be heard by more
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people even if we're growing the
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audience you know the desire was to have
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these group sort of you know you're not
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alone conversations so that young people
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who were really struggling could hear
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and see themselves in other people's
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story and the journey you know most of
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the people who've been on our show are
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through their Journey or in the process
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of really working on it so I think that
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that helps other people who are not as
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far in the journey go see themselves and
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say this is what's possible that's so
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much of it I think that we have a shared
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Mission and a shared passion like
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Stephanie said for working with young
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people and helping them and I consider
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you Jacob one of those young people
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because I'm a lot older but and
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understanding like the the shifts from
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how we grew up and what we were going
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through to how things are today
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and because I've been doing um therapy
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for such a long time particularly with
00:13:04
families and young people who struggle
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when Stephanie did her Ted Talk and I
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heard that I immediately reached out to
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her and we had known each other for many
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many many years from elementary school
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up and I reached out to her and I was
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like oh my God this is so important this
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is so good because not a lot of people
00:13:22
are talking about particularly about the
00:13:25
impact of pornography but you know I had
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been worried working with younger kids
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that were having all kinds of
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sexualized um problems in school and
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getting kicked out and getting you know
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in trouble or whatever all kinds of
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things going on on up through the
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college age and understanding and
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Stephanie enlightening me to the to you
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know I don't I don't watch porn I'm just
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going to say that I don't but so her
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enlightening me to that aspect and to
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the fact that I wasn't asking my C cents
00:14:00
necessarily I was acting asking because
00:14:02
it's on my intake about their sexual
00:14:05
experiences but most people do not see
00:14:09
that as a question about pornography of
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course because I didn't either and I now
00:14:13
ask about that because that's a really
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important piece and it's missing from
00:14:19
from my work or was missing and just the
00:14:23
cultural understanding and so Stephanie
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and I would have these long deep talks
00:14:28
about what's going on in culture what
00:14:29
I'm seeing in the mental health Arena
00:14:31
how those things are merging and that
00:14:34
kind of got us to the place of hey let's
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give a platform for parents to
00:14:39
understand from the mouths of babes
00:14:41
what's really happening under the covers
00:14:43
behind the doors and what happens behind
00:14:46
the closed doors in therapy like let's
00:14:49
bring some of the therapeutic tools into
00:14:51
play and what as Steph said what's
00:14:54
beautiful is our guests have been in
00:14:57
therapy almost all of them so so it's so
00:14:59
nice because we don't have to say hey
00:15:01
did you try this or this they're like
00:15:03
hey I tried this and it worked this
00:15:05
didn't but I tried this and it worked
00:15:07
and so then our guests here again from
00:15:10
the mouth of their peers um or the mouse
00:15:13
of children if it's a parent of what
00:15:16
works and it's been really validating
00:15:19
very informing very powerful I think um
00:15:24
you hear them all Jacob so you can tell
00:15:25
us but I think really powerful because
00:15:27
it is things that not everybody was
00:15:30
talking about particularly about porn
00:15:32
absolutely I think you know like
00:15:36
Stephanie you said something that that
00:15:38
it really resonated with me because it's
00:15:39
something I say on the show quite a bit
00:15:40
and that is it it's that like you're not
00:15:44
alone aspect
00:15:46
and I'm a decade out of homeschool at
00:15:49
this point a little bit over now
00:15:52
but one of the things that I think it
00:15:55
took a long time I I went from yeah okay
00:15:57
I had friends and I people had similar
00:15:59
experiences to like then 2020 happen a
00:16:02
lot of it feels like I'm alone and
00:16:04
feeling this way and recognizing these
00:16:05
things that happened to me as a kid and
00:16:07
and I I didn't agree with them or I did
00:16:09
agree with them or you know deal kind of
00:16:11
processing and dealing with that stuff
00:16:13
right um and it wasn't until I started
00:16:15
contacting those old friends and being
00:16:17
like hey what what do you think of this
00:16:19
like just kind of bringing stuff up and
00:16:21
and and really realizing that oh my gosh
00:16:23
I'm not alone in feeling like the Purity
00:16:26
culture we grew up in was like a mistake
00:16:28
or that that this you know particular
00:16:30
curriculum was a mistake or anything
00:16:32
like that so to your point it was like
00:16:35
having that ability to have those
00:16:37
conversations to see to really see I'm
00:16:38
not alone in this was amazing I think
00:16:42
it's kind of like you know the truth is
00:16:44
Jacob I believe all like that we are
00:16:47
tribal people you know I mean in to some
00:16:50
degree right like when I meet people who
00:16:52
grow up who grew up Catholic I have an
00:16:55
automatic affinity for them I feel like
00:16:57
we're going to understand each other if
00:16:59
I know somebody had Irish parents I'm
00:17:01
like they understand parents be a little
00:17:04
coldhearted you know like it's like we
00:17:06
have an understanding you know it's the
00:17:09
reason that there are these you know we
00:17:11
can't use them to the exclusion of other
00:17:14
people but we do have an identity that
00:17:17
we understand and it does make us feel a
00:17:20
little bit better when I hear other
00:17:21
people who you know and and this is
00:17:24
probably part of you know
00:17:26
even uh people who are homeschooled when
00:17:30
I know of people who were catholic that
00:17:32
grew up having sexual experiences they
00:17:34
probably didn't really you if they are
00:17:36
Catholic I'm going to say probably
00:17:38
didn't really use contraceptives all
00:17:40
that much in a lot of the mindset it was
00:17:42
like I am thinking that I'm going to sin
00:17:45
before I actually sin I'd rather get
00:17:47
into the
00:17:48
moment be taken by surprise and then
00:17:52
deal with the consequences later if
00:17:54
that's confession or I'll never do that
00:17:57
again you know what I mean and so it's
00:17:59
like we kind of have that understanding
00:18:02
of that mindset in many different levels
00:18:05
right yeah and and Dr chz something that
00:18:09
you said I mean you were the reason that
00:18:11
I was attracted to when when Stephanie
00:18:13
reached out and was like Hey we're
00:18:15
looking for an editor and like I mean at
00:18:18
first I was like oh no like Stephanie's
00:18:21
like the anti-p porn mom and like all of
00:18:23
these things and and I had kind of swung
00:18:24
from this kid who was like porn is bad
00:18:27
to like leaving the and being like Oh no
00:18:29
like I don't need to have shame around
00:18:31
porn anymore or sex or anything like
00:18:33
that to all of a sudden I was like oh no
00:18:35
I'm going back into the LI in St of
00:18:37
somebody who who's going to make me feel
00:18:38
bad about this but once I got on a call
00:18:40
with you guys and really we started
00:18:42
talking about things and I mean
00:18:44
obviously chz you're a therapist so you
00:18:46
you also know how to draw things out of
00:18:47
people um which is an amazing skill but
00:18:50
and started editing your show I realized
00:18:53
it was it was not so much of yes there
00:18:57
there's an anti-p porn element to it but
00:18:58
it was more of what I had been asking as
00:19:01
a kid was the question of well why is
00:19:03
porn bad and given no answer to that and
00:19:05
all of a sudden it was like oh this is
00:19:08
why porn is bad also here's the results
00:19:11
of mindset and behavior and things like
00:19:14
that that come from this culture that
00:19:16
we've built um and so yeah so I think
00:19:21
editing your show has opened my eyes to
00:19:22
a lot of things that I was
00:19:24
like it's it can get dark it can get
00:19:26
dark at times but at the same time I was
00:19:28
like like you said a lot of the people
00:19:30
who come on 7 on Sundays they've been
00:19:33
through the process so yeah they have
00:19:35
some some dark stories to tell but
00:19:36
they've come out the other side and now
00:19:38
are living in in the light um
00:19:41
and so that was good and especially as a
00:19:45
guy who guys tend to not get it all the
00:19:47
time um it was it was helpful to kind of
00:19:51
see things because a lot of your guests
00:19:53
are are uh females uh and women and and
00:19:57
to get it from that perspective and try
00:19:59
to like actually listen and understand
00:20:01
was eye opening yeah and I love having
00:20:05
your male perspective and anytime you
00:20:09
want to process stuff as seeing this as
00:20:11
a male your age like that would be super
00:20:14
helpful to us but I want to say two
00:20:16
things one is the power of group work is
00:20:20
exactly the You Are Not Alone thing and
00:20:23
and what I've learned over the years is
00:20:26
that no matter what we go through as a
00:20:30
human as humans there is a universal
00:20:34
Human Experience that there are parts to
00:20:37
almost anything and everything that all
00:20:40
of us feel related to in some way
00:20:43
nothing is in a vacuum like I've learned
00:20:45
that like every I say in every group
00:20:47
that I do there's a twin there is
00:20:50
somebody that you're like we both went
00:20:52
through these five things oh my gosh
00:20:53
we're soul sisters from you know another
00:20:56
misters or whatever but um there's a
00:20:58
Quin and there's also a challenger
00:21:00
there's somebody in every group that
00:21:02
kind of challenges you to see things a
00:21:04
little differently and in the beginning
00:21:06
when I start a group I can't tell you
00:21:08
how many people come up to me privately
00:21:10
and go I don't know if I want to do this
00:21:12
group CU he or she's in there and I
00:21:14
don't think that's really going to work
00:21:16
for me or whatever and I'm like no no no
00:21:18
that's that's lesson that's information
00:21:20
that's fabulous you want that that's
00:21:22
challenging you let's see what happens
00:21:24
and in the end they realize hey the
00:21:27
universe the human condition is
00:21:29
universal we are no different even
00:21:31
though you challenged me in the
00:21:32
beginning because you were my Alter Ego
00:21:34
mirror whatever it always works out that
00:21:37
way so the power in groups and the power
00:21:40
of knowing we're not alone is huge in my
00:21:42
mind and that's why I do a lot of group
00:21:44
work um and then the second thing you
00:21:47
said is that
00:21:49
porn I won't speak for Stephanie but I'm
00:21:52
not so much
00:21:54
saying I mean we kind of are but I'm not
00:21:57
so much saying that porn is bad but hate
00:22:01
aggression
00:22:02
violence um non-consent all those things
00:22:07
are what is so harmful and the reason
00:22:09
why I'm interested in that is because
00:22:12
I've been a sexual assault counselor for
00:22:14
30 30 some years and I haven't seen the
00:22:18
numbers go down and I've seen a lot of
00:22:20
prevention efforts and I'm like why are
00:22:21
we still seeing assault and abuse
00:22:24
through the roof like more than ever it
00:22:26
can't just be that more people are rep
00:22:28
reporting there's also an increase so I
00:22:31
wanted to understand that and I think
00:22:35
that um with Stephanie's you know
00:22:38
elucidations and and understanding and
00:22:40
her research and then me diving into
00:22:42
that research and understanding porn's
00:22:44
input in that is is where we're coming
00:22:47
from with that um back in the day when I
00:22:50
was taught Sex
00:22:52
Therapy um it was touted as yeah let
00:22:56
people get ideas from pornography that
00:22:59
was definitely part of my Hors workk and
00:23:03
so but what I'm saying is that where my
00:23:07
mindset is is anything that's hateful
00:23:11
violent
00:23:12
dangerous um misogynistic etc etc which
00:23:17
those things are these days and have
00:23:19
maybe always been for sure then uh
00:23:22
that's what is is not helping Society
00:23:25
not helping relationships in my mind
00:23:28
yeah no what I was going to bring up too
00:23:30
is kind of that I think one of the
00:23:32
common Trends I see on your show and
00:23:34
maybe it's not maybe trend is the wrong
00:23:36
word but common commonalities between a
00:23:38
lot of because you're interviewing a lot
00:23:40
of college age kids I'm 28 so a little
00:23:42
bit removed from that but still grew up
00:23:44
in a lot of that
00:23:47
is one of the questions that you guys
00:23:49
get to a lot of PE a lot of times with
00:23:51
these people is like well where how was
00:23:54
your like your sexual pallet built what
00:23:57
was it built upon where did did you get
00:23:58
that information and that kind of a
00:24:01
thing and a lot of us point it back to
00:24:04
pornography and
00:24:07
so again I mean I know Stephanie I know
00:24:09
you've got data and and charts and
00:24:12
numbers and all that kind of stuff that
00:24:14
that can correspond to this but
00:24:16
like is that uptick in like I mean porn
00:24:19
just sexual material is so much easier
00:24:21
to get a hold of now than than even like
00:24:24
my dad's Generation Um but like that
00:24:28
setting of that appetite at such like a
00:24:30
young age or even just the way it's
00:24:32
being set now um with things like
00:24:35
pornography is that kind of like violent
00:24:37
nature that's I mean I don't I don't
00:24:39
really know what my question is here but
00:24:41
that that's kind of setting this path to
00:24:43
keep those numbers High I'm assuming chz
00:24:45
just like so they did an experiment
00:24:47
years ago with uh butterflies and what
00:24:51
they found was that um butterflies when
00:24:55
they're mating are attracted to
00:24:57
butterflies with bright colors the
00:24:58
brighter the color the bigger the wings
00:25:01
the more the the male butterflies or
00:25:03
whoever inseminates whatever you call
00:25:06
the butterfly Behavior sexual behavior
00:25:09
um they were attracted to the bigger
00:25:10
wings and the um and brighter colors so
00:25:13
they experimented with creating
00:25:15
cardboard wings that were bigger and
00:25:17
brighter than a than a any butterfly in
00:25:20
nature and all of the male butterflies
00:25:22
went to the butterfly with the bigger
00:25:24
wings and the brighter colors and that's
00:25:26
kind of nature you know so
00:25:28
when you're talking about
00:25:30
template the template doesn't matter
00:25:32
whether it's violence or whether it's
00:25:34
all of this um there's kind of a porn
00:25:38
look to women for breasts what do the
00:25:40
breasts look like what is more
00:25:41
attractive where are we when we see
00:25:44
women of Darker skin colors we can be
00:25:47
violent toward them because they get
00:25:49
more aggressive pornography toward them
00:25:51
so we're setting that template that that
00:25:53
women of color deserve more violence and
00:25:55
aggression we're setting the template
00:25:57
that the only bodes that are worth
00:25:59
finding um sexual deriving sexual um
00:26:03
pleasure from are those bodies that have
00:26:05
these certain ratios and aspects right
00:26:10
so you have that aspect I I would I
00:26:13
don't know that Dr
00:26:15
Shez maybe is has articulated this as
00:26:18
many times as I have but I would say
00:26:21
that I do not think that there's
00:26:23
anything healthy in pornography in any
00:26:25
way because even if I were to take it
00:26:27
down to
00:26:29
to let's just say the sexual template
00:26:33
was like in the 1970s where women had
00:26:35
boobs of all different kinds they
00:26:36
weren't artificial you know whatever
00:26:38
like if you create the perfect porn
00:26:40
scenario you're still introducing
00:26:43
something that is artificial to the
00:26:46
experience and you're it's still taking
00:26:50
people away many
00:26:52
times let's just say the proliferation
00:26:54
of pornography was all of this more
00:26:56
healthy you're still taking taking
00:26:58
people away from the one-on-one
00:26:59
interaction and I know Dr Shez would say
00:27:01
that as much as I would um you're taking
00:27:04
people away from that create finding
00:27:06
that intimacy with each other this is
00:27:07
not about just experimentation this is
00:27:09
like literally it's kind of like
00:27:12
suppressing what you find with the other
00:27:14
person and kind of bringing you into
00:27:16
this realm where you then need it I mean
00:27:18
I have kids today who tell me well you
00:27:21
don't like pornography how are we
00:27:23
supposed to live without masturbation
00:27:24
and I'm like what do you mean
00:27:25
masturbation and pornography are two
00:27:28
entirely different things and they're
00:27:30
like no you can't masturbate without
00:27:31
porn and I always say Okay masturbation
00:27:34
has been around as long as human beings
00:27:35
have walked the planet okay yes
00:27:38
pornography has been around less than
00:27:39
150 years are you telling me that people
00:27:42
prior to 150 years ago were not
00:27:44
masturbating I mean this is absurd and
00:27:45
what that should tell you is you should
00:27:47
be scared that your brain has been that
00:27:49
hijacked so I'm going to give one other
00:27:52
thing that I one reason why even if we
00:27:55
took everything and everything was fine
00:27:56
and maybe you didn't even get addicted
00:27:58
to you know using pornography how about
00:28:01
the fact that probably by my estimation
00:28:04
90 plus perc of all females that are in
00:28:08
pornography have been trafficked into
00:28:10
pornography many of them don't even
00:28:12
understand that they're trafficked so I
00:28:14
can't ever take that away as a female I
00:28:16
will never stand aside when females are
00:28:20
being abused and forced to do something
00:28:23
and if you say oh sex work is empowering
00:28:25
I've literally been down this Rabbit
00:28:27
Hole a million times it's not empower
00:28:28
ing there's no other job in the world
00:28:30
where a woman would say I'm going to
00:28:31
take a job where I'm going to be
00:28:33
physically abused because there's not
00:28:34
one sex worker in the world who hasn't
00:28:36
been sexually assaulted in their line of
00:28:38
work whether that's pornography or
00:28:40
prostitution or escorting or stripping
00:28:42
or whatever they have all experienced
00:28:43
sexual assault whether it was actual
00:28:45
penetrative salt it doesn't ass salt it
00:28:47
doesn't matter so there's there's so
00:28:50
many it's a many headed Hydra you have
00:28:52
to cut off so many things that's kind of
00:28:55
where I land on the whole thing it's I'm
00:28:57
not what I feel is I don't
00:29:00
feel um like I think what you what
00:29:02
you're taking from the way that we
00:29:04
approach it I have absolute compassion
00:29:07
and understanding for every human being
00:29:09
that I talk to male or female that comes
00:29:12
to us because this is not them this is
00:29:15
an industry that has lied and
00:29:18
propagated profit over human beings
00:29:21
right has nothing to do with the human
00:29:24
with with our demographic anyone
00:29:27
honestly I just feel like they've been
00:29:28
lied to I shared this one when I was on
00:29:31
your show before and I I I think I've
00:29:33
talked about it on the show before but
00:29:36
um setting that template early of like
00:29:41
if porn is the way that sex is because
00:29:43
because if we're lacking sex education
00:29:46
uh which I was uh if porn is the
00:29:49
template and that is okay so that's what
00:29:51
sex is when I'm finally with a partner
00:29:53
that's what I'm going to I'm going to go
00:29:55
by well if that's not pleasurable to her
00:29:58
or to them it like and and I but I've
00:30:02
been so programmed at this point to be
00:30:05
like male pleasure is the dominant
00:30:07
pleasure and she must be enjoying this
00:30:09
because that's what I've seen um and so
00:30:15
yeah I think it's again like you said
00:30:17
it's a many it's it's a multi-headed
00:30:20
Hydra it's setup for for um
00:30:25
non-satisfactory relationship ships and
00:30:28
a setup for um not being honest and
00:30:32
authentic in relationships because if it
00:30:35
is programmed from that then you're
00:30:38
acting out something else instead of
00:30:40
like really relating right and that's
00:30:43
what a lot of like my coup's work and my
00:30:46
couple passion with couples is how do
00:30:49
you get back to human relations 100
00:30:52
person and we don't do that and maybe
00:30:55
it's not just porn maybe it's this
00:30:57
social Med media ideal of how we're
00:30:59
supposed to be in relationship or maybe
00:31:01
I don't know you know all these
00:31:04
different influences but it's not um
00:31:08
nobody's ever taught how to really
00:31:10
connect and deeply relate in in positive
00:31:14
ways and in healthy ways we're not
00:31:16
taught that kind of stuff and that to me
00:31:18
is the most important teachings because
00:31:20
we are tribal beings we are animals that
00:31:24
love being around others and love being
00:31:26
in relationship it's how we we mirror
00:31:29
each other and it's how we heal and it's
00:31:31
how we you know do everything so um so
00:31:36
if we were taught that in better ways
00:31:38
but instead there's kind of this hidden
00:31:41
teacher and not just porn but again
00:31:44
social media all other kinds of things
00:31:46
so bringing that out in the open with
00:31:49
these kind of forums is really really
00:31:51
helpful I think well let me ask you this
00:31:54
then so so if we're not taught how to
00:31:57
how to have healthy relationships where
00:32:00
where do you think people should start
00:32:02
cuz I know for myself I struggle with
00:32:03
relationships I think I think a lot of
00:32:05
young people do social media has screwed
00:32:09
us really hard uh pornography has
00:32:12
screwed us at this point too but like
00:32:14
yeah where where should someone start
00:32:17
such a good question Jacob and so glad
00:32:19
you asked and I want to say too that
00:32:22
your church kind of gave you some ideas
00:32:26
about that so you're you're navigating
00:32:28
many things you know your church our
00:32:30
churches give us ideas our peers give us
00:32:33
ideas TV and movies give us ideas and
00:32:35
porn give us ideas but we're not getting
00:32:37
the real skills and the real deal I
00:32:41
would love to see and as a matter of
00:32:43
fact I just left Stephanie a message
00:32:44
about this this morning but I would love
00:32:47
to see um it'd be nice if it was not a
00:32:51
mandatory part but a part of every
00:32:53
schooling of you know kids are not
00:32:56
getting along these days they're not
00:32:58
they're they're having trouble bullying
00:32:59
and all kinds of things so I would love
00:33:01
to see it part of the school system what
00:33:04
is more important than human relations
00:33:06
to me there isn't anything I seem to be
00:33:10
teaching the same things over and over
00:33:12
in my therapy and in my groups I've done
00:33:14
couples groups where we had 10 couples 8
00:33:19
to 10 couples I think it was 10 and we
00:33:21
went through a 12-week module and it was
00:33:23
very interactive you know rewriting our
00:33:26
vows to to what does that really mean
00:33:29
what are we really vowing after you've
00:33:30
been married a certain number of years
00:33:33
you know that kind of thing so I feel
00:33:35
like those things would be something
00:33:38
that Stephanie and I can offer and I bet
00:33:41
that they will continue to pop up
00:33:43
because where there's a need things pop
00:33:45
up just during covid all these um
00:33:48
coaches popped up and the world needed
00:33:50
it because people in my field had huge
00:33:52
waiting list so I feel like maybe the
00:33:54
need is going to get out there and we're
00:33:56
going to see people te teaching more and
00:33:59
more you want to be careful though that
00:34:00
it's the right for the right reasons not
00:34:03
just again for profit but for the right
00:34:05
reasons with the right kind of
00:34:08
professionals that know what they're
00:34:09
talking about and have lived it too you
00:34:13
know um I think when you're 20 I was in
00:34:16
a whole different place with
00:34:17
relationships than what I am now you
00:34:19
know 303 years into a marriage so you
00:34:22
know there's there's different different
00:34:24
experiences too but I think that would
00:34:27
be a amazing and let's start in
00:34:29
elementary school with little modules
00:34:32
how do you how do you relate to each
00:34:34
other how do you communicate healthily
00:34:36
all those kind of things one of the
00:34:37
things that I implemented in 2024 and I
00:34:40
want to continue in 2025 is I believe
00:34:43
that the Universe sometimes puts people
00:34:45
in our heads to for for a reason and I I
00:34:50
tried very hard in 2024 to when that
00:34:53
person popped in my head send him a text
00:34:55
message film a quick video you know
00:34:58
email text however Instagram whatever I
00:35:00
could do to get a hold of them just to
00:35:02
say hi um and I had much more response
00:35:06
to from people and like I I live far
00:35:09
from a lot of my childhood friends and I
00:35:11
you know and family and things like that
00:35:13
and so um so I had to find ways to kind
00:35:16
of kind of deal with that but um but
00:35:19
what I was what I'm saying about that is
00:35:21
that that small connection point of just
00:35:23
being like instead of going to that
00:35:24
place of I think we go to this place a
00:35:26
lot of times where it's like
00:35:28
they they're not going to have time for
00:35:29
me they're not going to care they're not
00:35:31
going to respond whatever um and when I
00:35:33
got outside of that and I said I don't
00:35:35
care if they respond I was thinking
00:35:36
about them I'm just going to send them a
00:35:37
message say hi what's up I'm thinking of
00:35:39
you I hope you're good I hope the kids
00:35:41
are good I hope whatever is good um that
00:35:43
elicited so much response from people
00:35:47
that I mean there was a point I was like
00:35:48
I can't keep up with my messages at this
00:35:50
point because it was it was just crazy
00:35:54
and then so I don't I don't know um I
00:35:58
don't know 100% where I was going with
00:36:00
that but uh but Stephanie I will let you
00:36:02
I'll let you continue I think I know
00:36:04
where you were going with it I think um
00:36:06
you and Dr Shez were answering two sides
00:36:08
of one question is where do you learn
00:36:10
healthy relationships and I think you
00:36:12
know she's right we can start really
00:36:14
young uh I I give my kids all the time
00:36:18
books that I'm like this person knows a
00:36:20
lot and I think you know um I forget
00:36:24
what Dr chez's term is when we have like
00:36:26
our selftaught therapy kind of stuff um
00:36:30
but I really believe in that but I also
00:36:33
encourage a lot of my young students
00:36:35
because I my college students are afraid
00:36:38
they're in college they're they're
00:36:39
leaving college and then they're like
00:36:41
what's going to happen on the other side
00:36:43
they've been so you know um surrounded
00:36:47
by their their peer group and some of
00:36:50
their peer group works but a lot of them
00:36:51
are just going to school so you know you
00:36:53
have a lot of time to socialize when you
00:36:54
go out into the real world you're tired
00:36:56
you're making your dinner you're trying
00:36:58
to get home to your animal and get your
00:37:00
apartment clean and all that kind of
00:37:01
stuff and it's it's so much more time
00:37:05
consuming so
00:37:08
I I really cannot encourage enough
00:37:11
people to join gyms to join things that
00:37:15
you are that you like you know whatever
00:37:19
your interest is if you've always wanted
00:37:21
to make model cars find a Meetup for
00:37:23
people who love model cars if you love
00:37:26
painting join go be go to the museum you
00:37:29
know when you you need a point of
00:37:32
connection like you said great I love
00:37:35
the fact that you did write that because
00:37:36
I think that's another excellent point
00:37:37
is that you have to follow up with
00:37:39
people your generation has gotten so
00:37:41
used to just texting and all that kind
00:37:43
of stuff and which is great but it's not
00:37:46
real connection you know like you you
00:37:47
want to make that like effort when you
00:37:49
feel it but um but I would say finding
00:37:52
those things that are your interest and
00:37:55
even if that is working with disabled
00:37:57
adults or working at a soup kitchen you
00:37:59
will find more likeminded people and
00:38:02
those things are out there but you
00:38:04
actually actively have to be proactive
00:38:08
right in finding those spaces because we
00:38:11
are experiencing epidemic loneliness in
00:38:14
this country and it
00:38:16
is in all honesty I have to say my son
00:38:20
is uh one of the guests on our show too
00:38:23
and it was that we talked a lot about
00:38:24
loneliness he's like the third episode
00:38:26
or something like that and I thought oh
00:38:28
this is he he even said and the girl who
00:38:30
was on with him were like you feel like
00:38:32
a weirdo saying I feel lonely like
00:38:33
nobody likes me you feel like a loser
00:38:36
right yeah but that's not actually the
00:38:38
case what I have seen and I say this to
00:38:41
him all the time I go it's really funny
00:38:42
that you were that episode because I
00:38:44
talked to so many young people and one
00:38:46
of the underlying feelings of almost
00:38:49
every single young person that I talk to
00:38:51
is a feeling of loneliness a feeling of
00:38:54
like you said not having someone there
00:38:56
who wants to listen and that's not
00:38:58
actually true you know I make a very
00:39:01
very very concerted effort once a week
00:39:04
one of my friends I grew I was in
00:39:05
California too I lived in California for
00:39:07
12 years many of my friends you build a
00:39:09
lot of friends when you have children
00:39:11
because they they engage you daily with
00:39:13
you know your friends and whatever I
00:39:15
built very strong friendships I make an
00:39:17
effort once a week to walk for two hours
00:39:20
and talk to one of my friends we make an
00:39:21
appointment I have a standing date with
00:39:23
all of my friends you have to do that
00:39:25
yeah that's something that doesn't come
00:39:27
naturally to young men but you have to
00:39:30
do that whether it's going to get coffee
00:39:32
going to you know cars in coffee or
00:39:34
whatever it happens to be but you really
00:39:37
have
00:39:38
to put yourself out there and not worry
00:39:40
about oh they're going to think I'm so
00:39:42
weird I'm like reaching out to them
00:39:44
they're gonna well who cares yeah yeah
00:39:47
they need you as much as you need them
00:39:49
but no matter what anyone says they need
00:39:51
you as much as you need them absolutely
00:39:53
no I 100% agree and I think in uh 20 23
00:39:58
I hit a wall where I was like I mean
00:40:01
2020 the world shut down everyone became
00:40:04
a Hermit kind of a thing I got stuck in
00:40:07
that in 2023 I was like I got to go get
00:40:09
a job because like I just can't be at
00:40:12
home all the I work from home so it's
00:40:14
just like I can't be at home anymore and
00:40:15
I went and worked at a toy store and it
00:40:18
was so much fun because it was just like
00:40:21
I got to
00:40:22
see specifically Lego uh like I got to
00:40:26
see like adults and kids play with this
00:40:29
thing that we all enjoyed and we collect
00:40:31
and we have fun with right and so to
00:40:33
your point it's like I found those
00:40:35
people that were into the same thing I
00:40:37
was into essentially and I had so much
00:40:41
happiness and joy from that um that I
00:40:43
still I mean just the other day I texted
00:40:45
one of the guys that I met at that job
00:40:47
who I didn't work with him he's just a
00:40:48
regular that comes in right um and we've
00:40:51
built connection him and I um and his
00:40:53
kids and I and it's it it's fun you know
00:40:55
it's out there um Lo libraries have
00:40:57
great meetups and things like that so
00:40:59
the South people are always willing to
00:41:01
talk that's one of the best parts about
00:41:02
being in the South I have to say I
00:41:05
literally stop on the beach I'm walking
00:41:06
my dog on the beach I'm like hey and
00:41:08
then it's like it's like hour later yeah
00:41:11
yeah that's one of the greatest things
00:41:13
that like New Yorkers and philadelphians
00:41:15
I'm from Philadelphia they look at you
00:41:16
like you're saying hello to me when I
00:41:17
walk out of Wawa what's wrong with you
00:41:19
and I'm like no what's wrong with you
00:41:20
this is how human beings survive a long
00:41:22
time yeah because we care about each
00:41:24
other yeah yeah what I love Jacob about
00:41:28
what you're saying is that you noticed
00:41:30
what you needed and you took action and
00:41:34
that is what it takes is noticing enough
00:41:37
and feeling the pain Point enough to be
00:41:39
like okay I'm going to make a change you
00:41:41
know because otherwise
00:41:43
complacency feels easy sometimes and it
00:41:46
feels like not making that effort when
00:41:48
the Surgeon General declared that
00:41:50
loneliness was an epidemic I was just
00:41:53
like yeeha yes like this is so important
00:41:56
that he's declaring that because it is
00:41:57
at the root of so many things and and
00:42:01
we're in this technologically connected
00:42:04
society that is the most emotionally
00:42:07
disconnected than ever particularly
00:42:10
after covid so it takes that kind of
00:42:13
conscious effort and conscious living to
00:42:16
make those changes so I love that you
00:42:19
did that and there are many different
00:42:21
ways that people can um can do that what
00:42:25
I'm seeing in my fi right now is even
00:42:29
for men and again I feel like when the
00:42:31
need comes here the universe comes to
00:42:33
meet some kind of need particularly for
00:42:35
men who the suicide so high addiction
00:42:39
you know all these other things
00:42:41
depression um there are men's groups
00:42:43
popping up that are really healthy good
00:42:46
men's groups and again I'm like all
00:42:48
Allelujah because I can't really do a
00:42:51
men's group in the same way that a male
00:42:53
therapist or a male male person can a
00:42:56
male coach whatever it would be but like
00:42:58
that's amazing and back 10 years ago if
00:43:01
I said to a client hey let me help you
00:43:03
find a men's group they'd be like I'm
00:43:05
not doing that I'm not talking with
00:43:07
other men about my problems you know
00:43:09
they would not be into that so I do
00:43:12
think that there's more and more coming
00:43:14
to help people but you do have to take
00:43:17
action and that's what I like that you
00:43:19
did that and the fact that you did that
00:43:21
at a toy store you can't get any more
00:43:24
like light and fun and joyful than
00:43:27
seeing a kid get a new toy you know
00:43:29
exactly Christmas every day you know
00:43:31
exactly yeah yeah no I think that was
00:43:35
that was absolutely key to it and I like
00:43:38
what you said too about men's groups and
00:43:40
I
00:43:42
think one of the things grow growing up
00:43:44
in church and maybe you guys experienced
00:43:46
this or maybe not but I think one of the
00:43:48
things that church uh kind of imprints
00:43:51
on you is like that's sometimes where
00:43:53
the Hub is for you that's where your
00:43:55
relationships are your friendships are
00:43:57
everything kind of revolves around that
00:43:58
at at times and then for people like me
00:44:02
who deconstructed and walked away from
00:44:04
it you lose all that um and and there
00:44:09
has to be this disconnection because
00:44:11
there's pain associated with that place
00:44:13
a lot of times um and that can be really
00:44:16
isolating as well where then but because
00:44:19
church has taught you that you're your
00:44:22
everything that you know all your
00:44:24
relationships are built in this place
00:44:26
they're just gone and you are just
00:44:27
lonely and so to build that outside of
00:44:30
the church way harder than I think I
00:44:33
ever anticipated because to your point
00:44:35
it takes that effort to actually go out
00:44:37
and say I need something I need people I
00:44:39
need physical contact I need
00:44:41
conversation I need all those things um
00:44:45
because church just kind of builds that
00:44:46
for you and then just kind of throws you
00:44:48
into that uh into that mix automatically
00:44:51
here's what you're bringing up which is
00:44:53
so important and I know this for the
00:44:55
Mormon Church same thing you're whole
00:44:57
Community your whole friendship base is
00:45:00
in there so then if you leave that
00:45:02
you're left with the grief and it's
00:45:04
unresolved grief because there isn't a
00:45:06
place or a way to really process that
00:45:10
and what are you supposed to do with
00:45:11
that unless you're in therapy and and
00:45:13
you've got a therapist that's going to
00:45:15
kind of help with that but really that
00:45:17
is unresolved grief that you're walking
00:45:19
around with like I had to make a choice
00:45:21
that actually made me leave some cool
00:45:23
people that I actually liked but I just
00:45:25
couldn't do both
00:45:27
right so um so it does bring a whole set
00:45:31
of solutions I I would imagine I mean of
00:45:35
issues for sure and unknown Solutions
00:45:39
like how do I handle that and then what
00:45:42
I wanted to say about the the um the
00:45:44
other relationship skill building I'm
00:45:47
talking more about like love
00:45:49
relationships too there is a little bit
00:45:51
of that in church churches but really
00:45:54
the nitty-gritty of one once you're in a
00:45:57
long-term relationship you are going to
00:46:00
need to know how to communicate really
00:46:02
well how to repair things how to accept
00:46:05
differences I am not you you are not me
00:46:08
you know like how do we accept different
00:46:10
perspectives and allow for that and how
00:46:13
do we repair when we have you know
00:46:15
trouble which it's inevitable so those
00:46:19
are the kind of skills that I'm like the
00:46:21
those can be taught starting really
00:46:23
young and starting with friendships and
00:46:27
then grow into how you do that in
00:46:29
significant love relationships and
00:46:31
families you know it's it all mixes in
00:46:34
do you have any like resources or books
00:46:37
or I don't know anybody that you would
00:46:39
Point people to to say hey if you want
00:46:41
to kind of start to understand some of
00:46:43
these ideas of building that or for
00:46:46
parents wanting to teach their kids how
00:46:47
to have good relationships do you have
00:46:49
anything like that honestly like
00:46:52
nothing's coming off the top of my head
00:46:54
to you um but let me let me keep
00:46:57
thinking about it because something come
00:46:59
to me I mean of course there's a lot of
00:47:01
great books out there my issue with
00:47:03
books is you have to put the information
00:47:07
into action right and I feel like that's
00:47:11
where the Gap is sometimes that we read
00:47:14
things or I go to a lot of workshops and
00:47:17
training seminars and all I want to know
00:47:19
I believe you on the stats I believe you
00:47:21
on the information I want to know how do
00:47:24
we implement it how do we put it into
00:47:26
practice in the best ways so I mean of
00:47:29
course people are doing that and of
00:47:31
course there's modules out there on that
00:47:33
kind of stuff but um off the top of my
00:47:36
head um I don't have anything right the
00:47:39
second because I go to like professional
00:47:41
training things yeah but I don't know um
00:47:46
well I think too I mean something like
00:47:48
I've been looking into uh even with like
00:47:50
this show is creating a book club around
00:47:52
the show to read certain books about I
00:47:56
don't know whatever they can even they
00:47:57
can also just be fun books but
00:48:00
but to then have a group of people to
00:48:02
talk about that and and you know maybe
00:48:05
it's not always implement it can be
00:48:07
implement it depends on what you're
00:48:08
reading right but I think with book book
00:48:09
clubs in general they tend to you can
00:48:12
have conversation around things right
00:48:13
but you also have that Community element
00:48:15
built in there where you go okay we're
00:48:16
all reading the same thing we're all
00:48:18
kind of learning and processing the same
00:48:20
thing now we can discuss it obviously of
00:48:22
course having someone who is like the
00:48:24
trained professional in the room to walk
00:48:25
you through that kind of thing is always
00:48:28
very helpful um but yeah so if if
00:48:31
anything pops your brain let us know
00:48:33
we'll also drop it in the show notes
00:48:34
I've got a great bookshelf of of stuff
00:48:37
um not in this room but yeah so I'll
00:48:41
I'll I'll give you some resources I'll
00:48:44
think about it um for sure but I love
00:48:46
that you're doing that kind of book club
00:48:48
during Co I did a a self-help book club
00:48:51
and I didn't know how long Co would go
00:48:53
on but I was like guys let's meet and
00:48:55
just read empowering things and it was
00:48:57
what saved all of us we were so grateful
00:49:01
to have that now that's 2024 ended 2024
00:49:04
I was like I'm reading books again
00:49:07
massive bookshelf now and it's like you
00:49:09
know knowledge is power I'm gonna say I
00:49:12
don't necessarily know that these are
00:49:14
like how to have healthier relationships
00:49:16
kind of books but in the end of the day
00:49:19
people who are lonely are not very happy
00:49:22
uh right like I mean loneliness is
00:49:24
driving sadness and depression and all
00:49:27
of that kind of stuff um two books that
00:49:30
come to my mind are um the the woman do
00:49:35
you remember the woman who wrote that
00:49:36
book years ago like the Happiness
00:49:38
Project it was like trying to like do
00:49:40
some every every day of the year for 365
00:49:45
days she did a project it was called
00:49:46
like project happiness and she wanted to
00:49:51
see how much happier she can make she
00:49:53
could make herself by the end of it and
00:49:54
a lot of it was like you have to be like
00:49:56
engaged in these kind of things so I
00:49:58
think for somebody who's struggling with
00:50:00
loneliness if it was one of my kids I'd
00:50:01
be like you know you should read
00:50:02
something like this the interesting
00:50:03
thing about it is exactly what we were
00:50:05
talking about is she was proactive about
00:50:08
changing from where she was not a
00:50:11
particularly happy person to a happier
00:50:14
person and um uh Oprah that book that
00:50:18
just came out with Oprah um I could look
00:50:22
it up you might remember the name she
00:50:23
has but it just came out she wrote it
00:50:25
with somebody else and the whole premise
00:50:27
of that book is somebody who makes
00:50:29
themselves happier and it's all about
00:50:31
taking the initiative on yourself and so
00:50:34
that's hard because I think your
00:50:36
generation has been sort of educated
00:50:38
to you know find happiness and dopamine
00:50:43
hits from their phone and this is like
00:50:45
the real true lasting dopamine like
00:50:47
dopamine is an instant and gone right
00:50:51
right and you have to keep feeding that
00:50:52
Beast the thing that naturally feeds
00:50:55
that dopamine without needing you to
00:50:58
look through a phone watch porn go out
00:51:00
and drive race cars is relationships
00:51:04
that brings us it's a natural source of
00:51:06
Happiness right and and challenging
00:51:08
ourselves and feeling like we have a
00:51:10
purpose and I think both of those B
00:51:11
books serve that um serve that side of
00:51:16
the happiness lonely issue yeah you will
00:51:20
and I want to say also for your wife
00:51:22
like that was the one mistake I think a
00:51:24
lot of people make when they're young
00:51:25
and freshly married married is that the
00:51:27
partner is supposed to be the one who
00:51:30
helps you to not be lonely and it's not
00:51:33
your partner's responsibility like
00:51:34
that's ultimately like you have like and
00:51:36
I keep saying this to my kids it's not
00:51:39
your partner's job yeah it's not my job
00:51:42
to keep my husband happy when he's
00:51:44
semi-retired it's not it's not his job
00:51:46
to keep me happy you know what I mean
00:51:47
like we are each other's partner but
00:51:50
it's good that you find your tribe too I
00:51:53
was going to say too about the the
00:51:54
dopamine hits one thing
00:51:57
that me and my wife did over Christmas
00:51:59
so Christmas and the day after Christmas
00:52:01
we decided no social media period we
00:52:04
just turned it off deleted it removed it
00:52:06
hit it whatever we had to do um and we
00:52:10
just kind of were trying to go like zero
00:52:11
phone like and you know we called family
00:52:14
on the holidays but like we really did
00:52:17
like zero phone and we just were like
00:52:18
okay what's fun what's what are we going
00:52:20
to fill our time with that we have the
00:52:22
day the whole day off what are we going
00:52:24
to do you know we do a puzzle we watch a
00:52:28
movie we do things that we can't we play
00:52:30
a game together you know things like
00:52:33
that where we were like we filled the
00:52:35
whole day doing other things even
00:52:37
product just productive things like
00:52:38
going through whatever we have been
00:52:40
avoiding for the last three months you
00:52:42
know whatever and at the end of the day
00:52:44
after those two days we were like I
00:52:46
didn't even want to reinstall stuff onto
00:52:49
my phone I was just like I I feel so
00:52:51
much better to the point where I was
00:52:53
like I'm putting limits on this now like
00:52:55
it you know I have reminders now I'm
00:52:56
like you've hit two hours today doing
00:52:59
social media you should probably be done
00:53:01
um but I don't know it just like even
00:53:04
that short period you're talking 48
00:53:06
Hours of just deprogramming your brain
00:53:08
from that dopamine hit to find other
00:53:11
things that bring you happiness was like
00:53:15
GameChanger that's amazing that's that's
00:53:18
the conscious living that I'm talking
00:53:20
about like being really intentioned
00:53:22
really conscious that I think again more
00:53:26
more people are like you're not going to
00:53:28
be alone in that you're inspiring me to
00:53:30
do that Stephanie too I'm sure but
00:53:33
because it is true like it keeps us from
00:53:35
being in nature it keeps us from
00:53:37
noticing what's in nature it keeps us
00:53:39
from doing puzzles like do what do I do
00:53:42
on vacation I love doing puzzles because
00:53:44
it's the time when I can do it but I
00:53:46
could do it any time a piece here or
00:53:48
there but I don't because instead I'm
00:53:50
scrolling on my phone but that's so true
00:53:53
and I think just really recognizing like
00:53:55
letting yourself be the experiment is
00:53:58
such a powerful tool and to say how did
00:54:01
I feel before during and after and then
00:54:04
share that with your spouse and be like
00:54:06
okay so how do we both feel and how do
00:54:08
we want to Institute this in maybe baby
00:54:11
steps is really cool um I'm wondering if
00:54:14
Stephanie you're thinking of the book
00:54:16
and I haven't read it sorry but I
00:54:18
haven't read it build the life you want
00:54:20
is that the oah one that you're yeah I
00:54:21
just pulled it up yeah build life and
00:54:24
actually the opening story I don't know
00:54:25
if you and I had this conversation but
00:54:27
the opening story is about a woman whose
00:54:29
husband left her and she was had every
00:54:33
reason to like want to be angry because
00:54:35
she was left for another woman I I
00:54:37
believe that's the story I it's
00:54:39
something along those lines and instead
00:54:42
she was like you know what no I am going
00:54:45
to be the person I want to be it doesn't
00:54:47
matter whether I'm married to this
00:54:49
person and they left me she went out and
00:54:51
she and she's actually uh um I think
00:54:54
Arthur Brooks's
00:54:57
mother-in-law and um she it's an amazing
00:55:01
story because it just teaches you that
00:55:02
like you can sit around and you can wait
00:55:04
for happiness to come to you or think it
00:55:05
comes from another person but she was
00:55:07
like no my happiness is going to come
00:55:09
from me being productive and me
00:55:11
following my purpose and not worrying
00:55:14
about who else I'm taking care of my
00:55:16
children they bring me love that's all I
00:55:19
have to do and she's an amazing example
00:55:21
of it she literally built this amazing
00:55:23
life for herself without any regrets you
00:55:26
you know and he he shares that as the
00:55:28
story that's like the opening story of
00:55:30
the book but yeah I think I think it's I
00:55:34
think it's really important to realize
00:55:35
that the that there is a verb that comes
00:55:38
first you have to be
00:55:41
active before you you have to give
00:55:44
happiness do happiness pursue happiness
00:55:47
before you feel happiness yes we are the
00:55:51
artists of our life yeah and and that
00:55:54
makes a difference when we um when we
00:55:57
get that in a way that pushes the
00:55:59
momentum forward to be like oh yeah I
00:56:02
control my life it doesn't control me
00:56:04
yeah I think that's that's a big thing
00:56:06
that a lot of people need to take he up
00:56:09
if you take anything away from today's
00:56:10
episode that that should be the biggest
00:56:13
thing you control your own happiness
00:56:15
yeah and the and the thing is that
00:56:16
dopamine I think if everybody's aware of
00:56:18
dopamine because I I'm just as guilty as
00:56:21
anybody else you know we all have our
00:56:23
different dopamine hits and fixes but
00:56:26
but like you know I I feel like you have
00:56:29
to you have to have different times in
00:56:31
life you can have times where you're
00:56:32
like into your like dopamine hits or
00:56:35
whatever even though you try to keep it
00:56:37
moderate but if you do then like scale
00:56:39
back so that your brain can yes
00:56:41
rebalance itself because it is it is
00:56:45
something that um you know it does you
00:56:48
can have ere yeah and you can have an
00:56:50
overe ex expression of it and you know I
00:56:52
mean actually you see that when kids
00:56:53
stop using porn when individuals stop
00:56:55
using porn they have a period of life
00:56:58
where they go through and it just feel
00:57:00
Everything feels gray and dark and flat
00:57:03
and boring boring boring boring and it
00:57:05
takes them it takes their brain a little
00:57:07
while to reset so it's the same thing I
00:57:09
mean we're getting it in smaller doses
00:57:12
but it's the same idea you have to be
00:57:14
always aware am I just being
00:57:16
too uh needy for that dopamine hit if so
00:57:20
you got to remind yourself go back to it
00:57:23
like stasis to healthy moderate level
00:57:26
there is a very good book I just read it
00:57:28
at the end of last year it's called
00:57:30
indistractable um it's by near iel I
00:57:33
think is how you say his last name um
00:57:35
I'll link it below but anyway the whole
00:57:36
premise of the book is to build a life
00:57:39
that is indistractable right and he
00:57:42
talks about you know we talk about
00:57:45
taking the phone and deleting all the
00:57:47
apps or whatever the P taking the Ping
00:57:49
and putting them away however when you
00:57:51
do that that craving for that dopamine
00:57:55
hit is still there it's not just oh I I
00:57:58
switched to a dumb phone or I deleted
00:58:00
every app it's also a retraining of the
00:58:02
brain to say now that I have this time
00:58:05
what am I going to do with it and what
00:58:06
am I going to do with that uncomfortable
00:58:07
feeling that I experience when like I
00:58:10
mean how many of us like use our phones
00:58:12
in the bathroom it's like what am I
00:58:13
going to do like instead of that it's
00:58:15
like maybe just use the bathroom instead
00:58:18
um uh but like you have to retrain your
00:58:22
mind to kind of do okay what what is the
00:58:25
thing that I'm going to do now now and
00:58:26
and social media is not it's not all bad
00:58:29
I think it's a neutral that's my
00:58:30
personal opinion I think it's a neutral
00:58:32
um it's what it's a tool that we use for
00:58:34
good or for evil um and but we allow it
00:58:36
too much control in our Liv so
00:58:38
indistractable a great a great book one
00:58:40
of the things he recommends is building
00:58:42
out your calendar where it looks insane
00:58:45
because every minute of every day is
00:58:46
completely booked solid with everything
00:58:48
however it's a it's a visualization and
00:58:51
training of the mind to say I'm going to
00:58:53
be doing XYZ for an hour for 15 minutes
00:58:56
for 5 minutes for another hour for this
00:58:59
long um and you schedule the fun stuff
00:59:00
in there too for an hour I'm going to
00:59:02
sit down on the couch and have a
00:59:03
conversation with my wife for you know
00:59:05
an hour I'm going to have lunch with a
00:59:07
friend you know whatever it is but you
00:59:09
you visualize it and then you kind of
00:59:11
your brain can kind of trick itself uh
00:59:13
rewire itself in a way to kind of like
00:59:16
do that and find happiness in those
00:59:17
things so great that's amazing that's
00:59:20
awesome can I say something I know we
00:59:22
have to end but I just wanted to say two
00:59:24
things um one is you know what Stephanie
00:59:28
was saying about the gray when things go
00:59:30
gray in addictions that happens when you
00:59:33
take away your drugs your alcohol you're
00:59:35
whatever it's the same exact thing it's
00:59:36
like the butterfly when it's so that
00:59:39
experiment that they did when it's so
00:59:40
big and bright and beautiful and then
00:59:43
you take that away the natural seems
00:59:45
like huh that's not the same so you do
00:59:48
have to kind of sit with the gray
00:59:50
exactly what you're saying just go to
00:59:52
the bathroom be okay with the four walls
00:59:54
that are in there that's okay you
00:59:56
but and then the other thing I wanted to
00:59:58
say and this is this is kind of my Chism
01:00:02
stuff I and I know I know you both
01:00:04
probably believe this I believe that we
01:00:06
are here in the ultimate homeschool
01:00:09
right like this
01:00:10
Earth do you hear that that little tie
01:00:13
into the homeschool thing yeah I feel
01:00:14
like this Earth is the ultimate
01:00:16
homeschooling of like we're learning our
01:00:19
stuff and maybe the faster and the more
01:00:22
radically but positively that we can
01:00:25
learn what feels the best to our heart
01:00:29
and soul and our relationships and all
01:00:31
the important things our purpose however
01:00:34
we get to that yes the
01:00:37
distractions we don't need those for
01:00:39
homeschool for this heart homeschool for
01:00:42
the real deal and we're so distractable
01:00:45
and we're so filled with distractions so
01:00:48
I love that you brought up that book and
01:00:50
I haven't read that either I don't have
01:00:52
I I don't have time to read books but I
01:00:54
need to but anyway I have time because
01:00:56
I'm going to make my calendar like you
01:00:58
just said but um but anyway but I love
01:01:01
speaking of it that way yeah I love
01:01:03
audible I love audible Libby support
01:01:06
your local library Libby app get it for
01:01:08
free don't have to pay yeah yes yeah
01:01:12
that's that's yeah liby libraries are my
01:01:14
big my big support system this year so
01:01:17
um ladies this has been wonderful I
01:01:19
appreciate both of you coming on and and
01:01:21
sharing uh so I'm going to link seven on
01:01:24
Sundays Down Below in the description
01:01:25
destion go take a listen if people want
01:01:27
to reach out to you guys is there a best
01:01:29
way to do
01:01:31
that uh yeah you can reach out through
01:01:34
seven on Sundays um through our there's
01:01:37
a uh contact us page on seven on Sundays
01:01:42
uh you can also reach out um to well you
01:01:46
know what you can I'll link I'll give
01:01:47
you a link that you can add to your um
01:01:51
to the show description here of where
01:01:53
they can reach out to us very cool yeah
01:01:58
yep seven on Sundays down.com that link
01:02:01
number seven yes the number seven not
01:02:03
the word the the number um yeah very
01:02:07
important but thank you once again I'm
01:02:09
looking forward to Stephanie and chz are
01:02:11
both going to come on individually as
01:02:12
well um Stephanie I think we're going to
01:02:14
dive a little bit more into like porn
01:02:16
addiction and sex education and things
01:02:18
like that and chz I know we're going to
01:02:19
touch a little bit more on like family
01:02:21
Dynamics and dealing with difficult
01:02:22
people um things like that so if you
01:02:25
have questions for them shoot me an
01:02:26
email at exhs [email protected] or shoot me
01:02:29
a DM at exhs Club that's Instagram and I
01:02:33
know Tik Tok is probably banned at this
01:02:35
point but it also works there for the
01:02:37
time being as of recording this yeah we
01:02:39
got two days um but uh not going
01:02:42
anywhere we'll see there's 200 days I
01:02:45
heard my daughter said 200 more days I
01:02:48
don't know we got a lot of information
01:02:49
floating out there we'll see we'll see
01:02:51
um but for sure email email is not going
01:02:53
away people um the other thing there's a
01:02:56
link down below I'm starting a
01:02:57
newsletter go fill all that out
01:02:59
everything you know all the stuff is in
01:03:01
the description down below um yeah once
01:03:03
again ladies this has been absolutely
01:03:05
wonderful and to all my ex- homie
01:03:07
friends we'll see you next week okay
01:03:10
peace
01:03:12
[Music]
01:03:23
[Music]
