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Evil and corrupt cops are everywhere, but what happens when they actually get caught?
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I can't believe what you're telling me. Here are five shocking examples of when evil cops realize they're going to
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prison. Starting out with Detective Michael Neely, who was found in a hotel room sitting on top of his police
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chief's dead body. Mike and his chief Johnny Miller were away for a conference. And one night, the two went
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out looking for a couple of drinks. But after a long night of drinking, Mike woke up in police custody and was
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immediately taken to the very same room he'd been interrogating suspects in for the last 10 years. But this time, it
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wasn't him asking the questions. So tell me, Mike, you guys um flew out of Tulsa?
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Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City. Okay. Had to Pensacola. Yep. Was it a direct flight?
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Nope. All right. Where where' you guys? Houston. Mhm. All right. And then from there got to
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the hotel and that's it. Mike is keeping all his answers short, which is a good idea in this situation,
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but it's up for debate whether it's because he knows it's the best move or just because he's still extremely hung
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over. Any problems or anything going on crowd? Just normal dinner or what? Any drinks there or just dining with?
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Couple beers and Was it a early dinner, late dinner or what? Pretty early. It was a I didn't think it
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was dark yet. Then tell me once what what you guys did once you got back to the hotel.
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It's about it. Just watch football game. That was Dallas game starting. Mike said the night consisted of a
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football game and a couple beers. But in reality, things went much further than that. Tests reveal that both men's blood
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alcohol levels were around or above.3. To put that in perspective, a level of point4 is widely considered to be a
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fatal [music] dose and.3 will likely result in alcohol poisoning, a condition that can lead to death and loss of
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consciousness. Either way, both men will have been completely out of control of their own emotions and actions, likely
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leading to the horrifying events that occurred that night. Do you remember um a hotel staff or a
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hotel employee coming up and telling you guys keep it down? I don't remember that. Mhm.
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So, what is the last thing you remember as far as that evening until the football game?
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I mean, I know you're asking me questions, but can I ask you a question? Absolutely.
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Okay. Homicide. Who who who is dead? Dead. Dead. Yes, sir. I guess I I probably don't have any
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anything else to say then. I've got nothing nothing to say to you. Mike was initially told he was brought
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in for a homicide investigation, [music] but only now told that it's his police chief, Miller, who died. Remember,
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[music] Mike was so drunk last night that he almost certainly doesn't remember a thing. So, knowing how bad
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his current position is, he decides to invoke his right to [music] silence, telling the cops that he's got nothing
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else to say. But these are trained detectives, [music] and they're about to put all their years of experience to
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work. Michael, you being charged with seconddegree murder. Okay. I had no idea what I was being
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charged with. Yeah. You being charged with seconddegree murder and your victim be
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booked in this scam county jail with no bond and we've already notified your uh your wife.
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Okay. And um the victim, I'm assuming. Yes. You have any questions for us? I mean, I've got a thousand of them, but
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I mean really doesn't make it. Well, I mean, sure it does. I mean, if you want to talk, we'll sit here and
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listen to you talk. I mean, we'd love to know what the heck happened. But I mean, that's that's up to you. I
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mean, we'll answer your questions, you know, in return. So, I I would love to know what happened,
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too. You know, Well, I mean, do you want to continue to talk to us? If you do, then I mean,
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we'll tell you what happened. I mean, I I I would love I I would like to I would like to know what happened.
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Uh, you know, cuz I'm I'm telling you, I don't I don't have any memory of of any
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of this And I I'm I'm shocked. Do you want us to You want to continue talking to us?
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Yeah. I mean, I I I'll continue to talk. I I'd like to know what happened. The detectives used two techniques here
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to persuade Mike into staying with them. First, they're reminded of the position
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he's in, almost threatening him with the punishments he's immediately facing. Then they ask if he has any questions
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for them. Obviously, given that they know Mike has no recollection of the previous night's events, he'll be
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scrambling to figure out what happened and if there's any way out of it for him. Imagine you woke up in a jail cell
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being told you're going to prison for killing your boss while blackout drunk. You do everything you could to piece
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together that night's events. Mike is now starting to realize that's his only option. Watch how his demeanor changes
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as he starts to almost join in his own investigation. I'm I'm trying to get you to figure out what's the last thing you
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remember. And if you The last thing you remember was watching football. Uh do you remember drinking?
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Yeah. Okay. Were you drinking the vodka? Yeah, I drank some vodka. Okay. So Mhm.
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Well, the first call came a little bit after 6, I believe. One of the guys that uh in the room next to you didn't say
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you guys were arguing. Just being loud. just laughing, yelling, probably. So, the next noise complaint came out about
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9 minutes till 10:00. This time he can't get anybody to come to the door. All he
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hears, he's knocking. He hears just grumbling, grunting, uses his car to get in, is on the ground
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between the bed and the wall. You are sitting on his chest. His face is beaten. the statement that was given by
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the second noise complaint. Could hear a male saying, "Mike, stop. Mike, stop." And then it just went quiet.
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Mike reiterates that he's got absolutely no memory of this and had no animosity towards Miller at any point. However, he
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also doesn't show remorse at any point. He just sits there confused and quite obviously only concerned for himself,
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repeating that he just can't believe what happened. The officers detail a little more about Miller's body and try
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desperately to get Mike to remember anything at all about the events, but he just sits there in complete disbelief.
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I mean, you you can't think of anything that that would have triggered you to to
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jump on Nothing. I mean, it's nothing. It's uh like [snorts] unbelievable. Anything else?
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You got any questions for us, Mike, before we get you across the street? No, I guess I'm getting booked in the
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jail. And uh Yep. We're going to uh get you booked in the jail and put in special housing over
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there so that you're not back there with the heads and stuff, right? And uh protective custody. You're not uh
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you're not want to harm yourself or anything, are you? No. Michael Neely was indeed booked into
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jail and subsequently sentenced to life in prison on account of seconddegree murder. But Michael took all this news
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surprisingly well. He just sat there and accepted his life was basically over in
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complete contrast to the corrupt tactics of this police captain. Captain James French was caught drinking and driving
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and followed home by an officer. What followed was one of the most brazen examples of police corruption ever
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caught on camera. Stay in your vehicle. Get back in your car. I'm drunk. Drunk. No, I'm the captain.
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Huh? Captain. A what? Captain of what? The big Don't reach in your pocket. Get back in your car. Have a
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seat. I I will. I'm not. You've been drinking tonight? I just got a ride. You've been drinking tonight, sir?
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I'm a captain on the police department. What police department? Oklahoma City camera. [music]
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What division? Investigations. How much we had to drink tonight, sir? Please. Huh?
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Turn the camera off. I'm not turning my camera off. Okay. This guy isn't just drunk. He's
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absolutely hammered. Even to the point where he thinks the camera can't hear him whispering. But despite the
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captain's please, the officer refuses to turn off his camera and continues with the investigation.
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Go ahead and step out of the vehicle. You got to be kidding me. How much we drink tonight, sir?
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I was at a poker game. Uh-huh. Cuz you were swerving all over. When you turn off, you didn't use your
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signal. I'm sorry. How much you drink at your poker game? Not much. Not much. How much is not much? I don't
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know. Beer, liquor. How many beers? Three or four? Three or four. How long ago was that?
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It's been going on a while. How long ago did you drink your last beer, sir? What time is it now?
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It's 0140. Midnight. You think you should drive? No, but I came from four blocks.
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Your mom Your mom lives here? I live here. You live here? Yes. To the rear of your vehicle. Okay. You
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got any weapons or anything on you? I do not sir. Those must have been a strong few beers
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as not only was he stumbling over his words, but apparently also swerving across both lanes on his way home. The
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captain is then searched and told to stand in the open where he's tested on his balance and sobriety.
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Hands down by your side, please. Look straight ahead. You see the tip of my pin, sir?
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I do. I want you to follow the tip of my pin without moving your head. Okay. Come over here. It's a little bit more
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level. I'm going to demonstrate for you first. While I'm demonstrating, I want you to
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stand with your feet together, hands down by your side, just like this. All right, sir. What's your name?
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Matt French. Matt French. Mr. French, stand just like that for me. When I tell you to begin,
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okay, I'm just going to demonstrate for you. First, I want you to pick a foot of
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your choosing. It doesn't matter if it's your left or your right foot. I'm sorry.
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And I want you to lift it approximately 6 in off the ground. And while you look at your toe, I want you to count by 1,00
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1,002,004 100,00 so on and so forth until I tell you to stop. At any point in time you
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lose your balance or your foot touches the ground. Just go ahead and pick your foot back up and continue to count.
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Okay? Do you understand these instructions I've explained to you, Mr. French? You may begin.
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Just keep going. Turn that off. I cannot, sir. Please. I know you're aware of our body cam
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policy and you know I cannot turn off this body cam, but I'd like to talk to you.
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I can't be a sir. Please. Are you going to do the test or not? Will you please talk to me?
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I'll talk to you once we're done. You can turn it off. You can turn it on. I can turn it off once I'm done with my
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investigation, sir. Okay. I'm a captain police department. I understand that, sir.
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And I am a sergeant on this police officer, and I've taken an oath to uphold the law.
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I don't show favoritism to anyone regardless. I don't care if you're a gangbanger or the president of the
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United States. Sir, I'm not asking you for that. If I was to treat you differently than I
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was to treat like some Southside loco or some pedo, how's that look on me? Okay. I'm not asking you for that. cuz I
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wouldn't do that for any of them. Even as the captain begs him to turn his camera off and just talk, the officer
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stands his ground and states that he has to treat everyone the same or his job and livelihood could be at risk. He's
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showing a fantastic amount of integrity that unfortunately we don't get to see too often, likely due to people like
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this trying to pull rank. They then continue with the third and final test involving simply walking heel to toe for
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10 steps. All right, anytime you're ready, you may begin. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
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All right, go ahead and turn around for me. Put your hands behind your back. Are you going to arrest me, sir?
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Yes, I am. Can I talk to you? Go ahead and put your hands behind your back, sir.
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Now that the investigation is concluded and the perp placed under arrest, the officer turns off his camera and returns
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the captain to the police department. Not only was he suspended from his position as Oklahoma police captain, but
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he was also hit with the regular punishments for DUI, likely amounting to a small fine and a few months in jail, a
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punishment that Stephanie Lazarus makes look like absolutely nothing. After decades of investigations, DNA evidence
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revealed that Stephanie was very likely the culprit of a murder committed in 1986. [music]
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Because of the highstakes nature of the case, the detectives made sure to meticulously plan this interrogation.
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Stephanie was a really successful detective herself, and she had recently received recommendations for her good
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work on a theft case. So, the detectives used this and brought her in under the guise that they needed help with a case.
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I don't want to talk about this in the squadron cuz I don't know who people are listening. And if we go to my side,
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everybody's always wondering what everybody else call. Okay. An interrogation room is a strange place
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for such a conversation to take place. [music] So to put her mind at ease, detectives told her this was the place
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they'd least be likely to be overheard as [music] the case details were strictly confidential. Sher Resmus's
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body had been found at her home after being [music] shot three times. At the time, police suspected the murder was a
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result of a burglary gone wrong, but the case went cold when they couldn't identify the suspect. However, 23 years
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later, when revisiting the case, [music] detectives found evidence that led them
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towards Stephanie, a girl who had been trapped in a love triangle with Sherry and her husband, John Rutton. So, the
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detectives decided to bring up John's name to see how she'd react. Were you guys friends? Close friends?
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Yeah, we're very close friends. I mean, what's this all about? It's a case we're working on. It
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involves John. And in there, there's notes and stuff that that he knew you and stuff.
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Oh, yeah. I mean, we good friends. um lived in the dorms for I lived in the dorms for 2 years.
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Was there any relationship or anything that developed between you guys? Yeah. I mean, we dated. Uh
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Uh-huh. you know. Um I mean, is what's this all about? Well, it's relating to uh his wife.
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Both the detectives and Stephanie have tried to seem as friendly and relaxed as possible around each other, but
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Stephanie is obviously starting to get very anxious at this point. Even though the detectives gave a somewhat
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believable excuse, she is now in an interrogation room faced by two detectives being questioned about a girl
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she supposedly murdered 20 years earlier. Her breathing has become faster and her language is defensive and her
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movements have become more erratic. And you're right. I mean, if you guys are claiming that
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I'm a suspect, then, you know, I I got a problem with, you know, with that. [music]
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Okay. Okay. So, you know, if you're if you're doing this as an interrogation, you're
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saying, "Hey, I'm a suspect. Well, now I got a problem with, you know, now you're
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accusing me of this. Is that what you're is that what you're saying?" Obviously, you know, about all the DNA
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stuff and things of the nature that, you know, gets done on cases nowadays, you know, if we asked you for a DNA swap,
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would you be willing to give us one? Maybe, cuz now now now now I'm thinking I probably need to talk
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to a lawyer. Stephanie chooses to provide DNA evidence, hoping her willingness to help
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out would ultimately prove her innocence. But unfortunately for her, just 5 minutes later, the detectives
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decide they've heard enough and put her in cuffs. But to this next cop, Jaylen Fleer, a single felony charge looks like
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child's play. Can I ask is this something I might I should have lawyers on? In April 2020, San Diego police received
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tips that a man had been engaging in with a local child. Two months of investigation led directly to Jallen and
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the mountain of questions that desperately needed answering. So, I know that I have a lot to delve
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into, but I I really want to get to know you first if you don't mind. Okay. So, I'm going to lean back and get
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comfortable. Um just cuz Are you comfortable? Do you want to take off your Duty belt? No, I'm good.
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Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing? Yeah. So, I will ask what this is about.
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Yeah. So, we're looking into some allegations that were made. We're kind of It's It started with a Crimestopper
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report, so we're just kind of going from there. Um uh we did receive um a picture um that
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um you know, when we looked into it, it looked similar to you. So, I don't know if you can take a look at the picture
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and just tell me if you've seen this picture before. I have like 15 million things here.
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Okay. As soon as the allegations are brought up, Jaylen becomes visibly stressed. He
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leans forward tentatively in his chair, clasps his hands together softly, and clenches his jaw. It's obvious he's
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worried about whatever he's about to be shown. The detectives have made it clear
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that he is not currently being detained and is free to leave at any time. However, she is making a noticeable
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effort to make him feel relaxed, using a bubbly and friendly persona to put him at ease. So, this picture right here?
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Yeah, that's definitely me with the gross mark. Okay. So, um this picture right here,
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how old were you when it was taken? I don't know. 20. 20. Okay, cool. That makes it very easy.
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Um so, as far as like um the picture, so um this photo came up in connection with
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some allegations um about you communicating with a younger female on Snapchat. Okay. Can I ask is this something I
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might I should have lawyers on? Jaylen is starting to seem more and more stressed. He begins to sway in his chair
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more and becomes more closed off with his answers. But the pressure he's feeling now is nothing compared to what
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the detective is about to lay on him. Um, so you know, this, like I said, this photo was um sent to this person, so
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they were in possession of it. And we can't find any connection or reason why this photo would end up with this
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particular person if it wasn't shared by someone you may know or yourself. I agree. Yeah, that my wife would have
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done it. I don't want know why she would share that. So, well, along with the photo came some
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additional information about your personal life. Okay. Um, and based on some of the information
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you share with me today, it seems to add up. Okay. The account that shared the photo and
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the information was called J178211. a seemingly random selection of numbers until you realize that 17 was his
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college baseball jersey number, 82 was his high school jersey number, and 2011 was the year he graduated in. If this
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account was operated by a so-called enemy of Jay, they'd sure done their research.
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Jay, I'll be very honest. I just I want to know the truth. Yeah. No, I've never even heard of that
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account. Okay. Have you ever shared any images of your with anyone? Yeah. Okay. And how many times would you say you've
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done that? A lot. Did you ever share any videos of you having with anyone? With anyone? No. I've always had
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personal videos of me and my wife. That was it. And my ex actually had one. Jallen then rightly decides that he's
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already answered enough of the detective's questions and asks him for a lawyer. However, unfortunately for him,
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he's quickly handed a search warrant, allowing the police to seize DNA, his phone, and his car. Police used this to
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gather a mountain of evidence against Jallen and just a few weeks later turned himself in. Jaylen was charged with 20
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felonies, including engaging in lewd acts with children under the age of 14, pandering children under 16, and
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engaging in the child under the age of 16. A few months later, he was sentenced to 12 years in prison, a fraction of the
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amount Grant Harden received after a murder investigation led to the shocking discovery of a crime committed over a
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decade earlier. Grant has been apprehended on suspicion of murder, but the secret he was hiding would end up
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making him so desperate, he would try everything he possibly could to escape. On the 23rd of February, James Appleton
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had pulled into a parking lot on Ganidge Road to take a phone call with his brother-in-law. Suddenly, a loud banging
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sound was heard over the phone, and the line went dead. A passerby had spotted a
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white Chevrolet Malibu parked behind James' car that immediately sped away after the loud noise. When the passer by
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went to check on James, he was lying dead at the wheel with a gunshot wound to the head. Gateway, Arkansas is a
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small town of 400 people. So, the owner of the Chevy was quickly determined to be Grant Harden, a 50-year-old police
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officer who had lived in this town his whole life. Later that night, Grant's vehicle was stopped at a police
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roadblock after taking his family out for dinner, and he was quickly brought in for questioning. But unfortunately
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for everyone involved, Grant's experience in law enforcement would prove to make this interrogation one of
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the most excruciating and difficult that Arkansas police had ever had to deal with.
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I'm Detective Chamberlain. I know we have James Chamberlain. Uh I did you used to be a police officer
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somewhere or I recognized you, but I wasn't 100% sure where I knew you from, but somebody said that you used to be a
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police officer in Gateway or something [snorts] like that. Okay. The interrogation begins casually as
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Detective Chamberlain opens with questions about Grant's career. As they're both police officers, he assumes
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he can strike an immediate middle ground with him, building trust between them and hopefully getting him to relax so
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he'd give up information easier. A strategy that he'd soon find out had the opposite effect. Grant has then read his
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rights, but decides this is where he's going to start making it difficult for the detectives.
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Here's the thing. I want to talk to you about what what you've done today. Okay?
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Can you just take me through when you woke up this morning to when you got stopped by the police out there in
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what's the name of that road that you were on? I'm sorry. I'm going to drop again Ridge.
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I'm not going to say anything after I've been read those rocks yet. Okay. Well, I don't know what's going on. I haven't
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kind of sickly to uh to what I'm here for and things. Up until this point, Grant hasn't been
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told what he's been brought in for and states that he's feeling sickly given the circumstances he's been put into.
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Given his disturbing body language, he may also be feeling exposed and somewhat inferior due to being the suspect of a
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case instead of the detective for the first time in his life. So, you don't want to explain what
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you've done today? Did you Is there a reason behind that? What was the first thing said? I
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[clears throat] have the right to remain silent. Okay. So, you're telling me that you
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don't want to talk to me right now? Okay, cool. Hang tight right here for just a few minutes. Okay. As is normal
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in a case like this, the detectives leave the room for a few minutes to talk about how they're going to handle the
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interview. And not only does it give them time to formulate their approach, but it also gives the suspects time
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alone to worry about what could be going on and form anxiety regarding their situation. At the same time, though, it
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may also give the suspect a moment to collect their thoughts and generate their own story and approach to the
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interview, putting the detectives on the back foot instead. By the way, I'm Detective Cordier. I
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think we met once before. Yeah. Okay. So, I I I don't know if I scared you at the beginning or or what, but
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that's why I was trying to and I can't you see you see the position that I'm in. I can't tell you why you're here,
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but at the same time, I I need to rule you out into something. Does that Does that make sense?
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When the detectives reenter the room, they try an obviously different approach. this time attempting to set
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Grant at ease, stating that they just need to clear him from any wrongdoing and then he's free to go on his way.
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Many people would at least subconsciously be inclined to open up a little more in an attempt to get out of
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there as soon as possible, but Grant has other ideas. Would you be willing to talk to me about
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your day knowing that I need to rule you out of something or like I I'm just If you didn't do anything wrong today, you
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have nothing to worry about. Yes, I I would have liked to but before Yeah. the rights were read. So, not knowing
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what's going on. Yeah. And you understand as a detective, we have we read those rights to
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everybody who comes in here. It's not just you. It it happens to everybody that walks through this room and talks
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to us. As a former police officer, Grant is fully aware of all of this. He also knows that staying silent is a right and
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should not be used against him to imply guilt. So, he continues to refuse to answer any questions to try and shake
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the cops off. I guess my question is this. Knowing what I just told you, I guess if it was
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me and I was, you know, if I was in your position, I'd be like, "Hey, James, I did this. I was at or Grant, I did this.
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I was at, you know, here, here, here, and here." And I would just be done with it. But at this point, like, I can't
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clear you from this because you could still potentially be a suspect. I don't know if I'm explaining it right or or
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what it fine. I just have to once the once the rights have been read, I have to It says I have the right to be
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silent. Yes. Okay. Just tell me this. I know you were a police officer before, right? You're you're a police officer in
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in Gateway. It's an easy yes or no. I [clears throat] I'm being silent. Well, I can see that we can do this all
00:26:09
night. I mean, it doesn't bother me. You're going to continue to be a suspect until I find out otherwise.
00:26:14
Okay. Unfortunately for the detectives, Grant is exercising perfect form within this
00:26:19
interrogation. Refusing to talk greatly hinders the investigation as a whole and
00:26:24
completely prevents the detectives from making progress, all while being completely legal. This is why Detective
00:26:30
Chamberlain is starting to appear visibly annoyed and decides to take a break from the interrogation, as letting
00:26:36
emotions take control in an investigation like this can be extremely dangerous for the detectives. But once
00:26:43
again, this time alone can also give the suspects the chance to come up with a plan.
00:26:58
Hello. I need to go. You need to go where? Home or get ready for work in a little
00:27:03
bit. Okay. Well, just have a seat and I'll get I get it for you. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you.
00:27:10
The other hospital. You want to talk to me again? What's going on? I'm just ready to go.
00:27:15
Okay. And I'm not I'm not ready for you to go yet. So, you're not going to be able to go. I've got other things that
00:27:20
I'm doing right now. So, all right. I just want to Oh, you're not going to go. Okay. Yeah. No, you're not. Okay,
00:27:29
perfect. Thank you. Oddly enough, in many other investigations like this, now is around
00:27:36
the time where an officer may attempt to come to a decision regarding the suspect. The interview is obviously at a
00:27:42
complete standstill and no progress is being made in any direction. The standard protocol would be to either
00:27:48
gather the information needed to charge the suspect for a crime or release them based on a lack of evidence. But whether
00:27:54
the detective thinks he can extract more information or if it was an ego-based decision, Grant is told to stay and
00:28:02
continue the interrogation. The police then try to take some time to piece together more of the story, talking to
00:28:08
witnesses to try and place Grant at the scene of the crime. Despite his silence being perfectly legal and acceptable, it
00:28:15
greatly increases the detective's suspicion towards him. Suspicion that's only heightened when Grant's wife says
00:28:20
that his only alibi was that she thought he was spreading grass seeds at the time
00:28:25
of James' death. All signs point towards Grant and Detective Chamberlain goes back in for round three.
00:28:31
Uh, Detective Cordier is talking to your wife right now. I talked to her a little
00:28:34
bit, so I've kind of got a timeline of where you were and where you weren't today. Um, we all know what happened.
00:28:41
Okay, I'm not trying to get you in any trouble. I'm not trying to get her in any trouble. [clears throat] You got a
00:28:46
little daughter, 16, who needs her parents. Okay, I don't know if you've had a problem with this guy for a while
00:28:55
or and this [clears throat] was an accident or you maliciously chased him down or or what happened. But if I don't
00:29:02
get your side of the story, I won't ever know. We're writing a book. You got chapter one, you got chapter two, and
00:29:08
chapter three. Chapter one is what happened today, what started out today, how your day started. Chapter two is
00:29:14
what led up to the incident. And chapter 3 is you telling me about what happened
00:29:20
to lead you up to that. I know you went to eat, you know, out tonight. I know what you said at dinner. I know that you
00:29:26
went to Lowe's afterwards. I I know everything, but I don't know what caused the incident. And if I don't know that,
00:29:32
I've got to assume the worst. I'll let you think about it. I'm I'll give you one more chance here in a few minutes
00:29:38
and I'm not I'm not going to talk to you anymore. I'm I'm telling you that. Well,
00:29:41
what happened? I know. You know, we have witnesses that put you there. They physically IDed you.
00:29:47
The two cars that drove by. Look, man, I'm not I I just want to know why it happened. I
00:29:54
I'm going to sleep good tonight regardless. I don't think you will. At the time of the murder, when the two
00:30:00
cars were parked up beside each other, the man in the white Chevrolet waved to the passer by passed before the gun was
00:30:06
fired. As they passed, they were able to get a good look at the driver. And unfortunately for Grant, it was Andrew
00:30:13
Tilman, another resident of the small town who had known him since he was a child and was hence able to undoubtedly
00:30:19
place him at the scene of the crime as the gun went off. Both Grant and Chamberlain know without a doubt what
00:30:26
happened to James. But Grant also knows that his only chance of escaping is to continue to remain silent and pray that
00:30:34
they can't gather the evidence they need. The detectives are now forced to try almost anything they can think of to
00:30:39
get movement out of Grant. Starting with allowing him to see his wife and daughter in hopes that it will invoke
00:30:45
some sort of emotional reaction within him and get him to talk. Your wife's about to leave. She wanted
00:30:50
to give you a hug before she left. Are you good with that? Love you, too. Okay. All right. I'll be back in a few
00:31:03
minutes. Thank you. Unfortunately, even this doesn't work. So, instead, Detective Cordiero decides
00:31:13
to return alone with a more calm and sympathetic demeanor in a second attempt to build trust with Grant. Often male
00:31:20
suspects are more likely to build a subconscious connection with female detectives due to them often thinking
00:31:25
that they're less threatening and more understanding. Realistically, this is the last option the detectives have.
00:31:33
All right. Think about laying down up on that desk, but it looks awful hard. Yeah. I don't know if you'll be any more
00:31:43
comfortable up there than what you are now. Can you help me understand how we got to
00:31:47
this point? I don't know. I don't know. Man, I remember being on patrol and running into you one night.
00:31:54
Help me out on a call. Back me up. Oh, it was way back in almost 3 years now. Well,
00:32:03
two. Yeah, something like that. You guys are always good to help us, help me, too.
00:32:11
Brad, you were always right there, man. Cordiierro opens up with an anecdote about how Grant apparently backed her up
00:32:18
on a case 3 years ago. Even though he doesn't necessarily remember it, this will give him the idea that Cordiierro
00:32:24
will be even more sympathetic and helpful towards him as he's done her a favor in the past. It also allows them
00:32:29
to continue reminiscing about their time on the Force and the people they've worked with, further strengthening the
00:32:34
subconscious bond Grant will be creating. I just understand how we got to this point.
00:32:39
Yeah, me neither. You're willing to talk. I'm just ready to go to bed. I don't blame you. Me, too. Me, too. I
00:32:47
know we could do that. You just talked to me. Well, I just have to since you read
00:32:53
those rides, I have to state I have to do the ride. What What's the difference? You know the difference?
00:33:02
Regardless of something happened or not, and if it did, if it was an accident, tell me. Like, let me help help me help
00:33:11
you. Like, I want to know what I can do or what happened today to be able to explain it later. I
00:33:17
I don't know what happened today. I just need to You know, people are going to have
00:33:21
questions. Your family. Well, I have questions. Well, exactly. So, so why can't we figure this out
00:33:29
together? Cordiero is making a conscious effort to use inclusive language such as, "We will
00:33:35
figure this out together." This and her open and expressive body language are both techniques she's using to make
00:33:41
Grant feel more relaxed and as though he's part of the solution, not the problem. She's also making every effort
00:33:47
to be nice to Grant in hopes that maybe he'll finally open up to her or at least
00:33:52
give her a way in. We insert from the very beginning. I mean, I know you probably slept in cuz
00:33:57
you worked nights. I worked nights. Trust me, I worked nights for almost 4 years. I understand how that sleep
00:34:03
schedule is. Yeah, I [snorts] was sleep. So, messed up. Did you sleep in today? Yeah, I bet you did. You could go to
00:34:13
work tonight, huh? Yeah. Yeah. What time did you get up? Around noon. That's usually what time I
00:34:21
got up, too. Did you watch anything good on TV? Usually that's what I do. I'd eat
00:34:25
and watch TV. I woke myself up a little bit. [snorts] Anything good? Same old stuff. [clears throat]
00:34:33
Oh, yeah. on TV. You watch the same episode or like do you have a specific TV show you would
00:34:38
wake up and watch? Well, we watched the filming My Life Always Has It On I can't remember what
00:34:45
channel it's called right now. TV Land. Oh, okay. I haven't really watched any of that. I don't even I couldn't even
00:34:52
tell you what it was about. Is your whack like that? Oh, yeah. I think she'd watch other
00:34:57
stuff. [laughter] Yeah. It might not be about the case, but finally Grant is talking and
00:35:06
Cordiero has found her way in. If she can keep the flow of this conversation up, she might be slowly able to extract
00:35:13
information from him, even without him knowing, talking about specifics such as TV shows and sleep schedules. Even that
00:35:20
could lead to catching him in a lie and placing him in certain places at certain
00:35:24
times. But most importantly, she's building a connection with him and continuing to let him talk, which
00:35:30
increases the chance that he either slips up or decides to make it easier on the detectives and answer a question.
00:35:36
But predictably, as soon as Cordderero started asking him to talk about the case again, he shut down once more,
00:35:43
refusing to answer any more questions and staying silent. I think you have a lot to live for.
00:35:49
Beautiful family who I've had the privilege of talking to. The way I look at it is you're a man. Men face their
00:35:58
mistakes and they own up to them and they figure out what happened and figure out how to solve it and move on.
00:36:07
Like I said, I'm I'm honestly here to help you. I want you to understand that. I wouldn't spend my time in here with
00:36:12
you if I didn't and that something happened today that needs to be explained. Did you make a mistake today?
00:36:21
Even after reminding him of his family, Grant doesn't move an inch. Again, realizing that his only chance of being
00:36:28
let off is to not speak and hope they don't find anything. I like you. I like this fella that was a
00:36:35
detective here. And I know they all don't care about him and stuff. And I just don't know how to [sighs] how to uh
00:36:43
had this happen before being [clears throat] brought in and interrogated for something. So I I know you don't care,
00:36:51
but I just don't know how to how to I think how to be silent sitting over here looking like a jerk.
00:36:57
No, you're not. Honestly, you were far from that. You're very polite. Don't you know why you're here?
00:37:05
I appreciate you guys and I'm just going to Can I get a lawyer? Yeah, it's up to you.
00:37:13
But you obviously something's going on and I need one. I just want to hear your side
00:37:18
of it. I want to get a lawyer. After hours of almost pointless back and forth, Grant finally asks for a lawyer,
00:37:26
meaning the detectives can no longer question him and concludes the interrogation. But this is far from
00:37:32
where the story ends. Between this interrogation and the final court hearing, Grant and his lawyer both
00:37:38
realized that there was simply no way he was going to be released scot-free. Not
00:37:43
only was there a man at the scene of the crime who all but saw him pull the trigger, people were also starting to
00:37:48
realize that he'd actually either been fired or resigned from three different police force jobs before becoming the
00:37:55
chief of police in his hometown. So on October 16th, 2017, he pleaded guilty to the first-degree murder, but refused to
00:38:03
reveal his motive, leaving each member of James Appleton's family without closure to this day. However, as Grant
00:38:10
was being prosecuted, a shocking revelation was made that turned him, a murderer, into a senseless monster of a
00:38:17
human being. As his DNA was being taken, they realized it was already in the system under an unknown name for a crime
00:38:25
committed almost 20 years ago. In November of 1997, a teacher at Frank Tiller Elementary School went to the
00:38:33
teacher's lounge bathroom only to be met by a man brandishing a gun that forced her into a stall. The man then ripped
00:38:39
her and fled, taking care not to touch anything or leave evidence behind, [music]
00:38:44
except for the he left on her clothes. Local police did everything they could to identify the perp. But after [music]
00:38:51
20 months of effort, the investigation went cold until 20 years later when Grant Harden's DNA was found to be a
00:38:58
perfect match. And because Rogers police had obtained a John Doe warrant back [music] in 2003, allowing them to arrest
00:39:06
an unknown suspect and bypass the statute of limitations, he was hit with the 14-year [music] sentence for his on
00:39:13
top of the 21 years for the murder of James Appleton. And as such, Grant Harden was sentenced to 35 years in
00:39:21
prison, meaning that he'll likely live out the rest of his life behind bars.