00:00:03
What's up, dude? You go. Why? I'm telling you, she ain't going to get up. Police are at the home of Normma
00:00:11
Carricker after receiving a frantic call from her son. He was heavily drunk, but
00:00:16
managed to say enough. Someone ran out of the house and he heard his mother's scream. Police department, ma'am. Oh,
00:00:25
Norma was already dead, strangled with a bungee cord. We're need some other units
00:00:31
to clear the house. This looks like a homicide. You mind want to get a canine track started? Somebody ran out the back
00:00:35
door. In the days that followed, detectives would uncover an extensive list of suspects, each with their own
00:00:41
dark motives, jealous exes, hidden family secrets, a lucrative life insurance payout, and even a decades old
00:00:48
family murder. turning this seemingly simple welfare check into one of the most twisted homicide cases the town had
00:00:55
ever seen. Because you're our only loose information deal without you we have enough. She had an escrow in a million
00:01:02
dollars. Mary did choose to my mom, you know, for her money and I even fed her one. You're going to [ __ ] end up
00:01:07
dead. Then kids would blame me because they know I didn't like them. Said it was so good making you want to slap your
00:01:14
mom. I'm going to kill them all. In the early hours of a Wednesday morning at 1:30 a.m., police in Troy,
00:01:26
Illinois, received a confusing call from an intoxicated man. 911. What's the address of your emergency?
00:01:33
Rainbow taken out. Huh? My mom must have went on a date last night. I heard the guy leave out the
00:01:41
back door and I heard [ __ ] And I went up there on the dog and I went upstairs. My mom my mom I
00:01:50
didn't hear my mom walk through the house. My mom responding. Your mom's not responding. Does she need an ambulance?
00:01:56
I didn't even want to go in there cuz they were like bang bang bang. Does she need an ambulance? I don't
00:02:05
know. I have no idea. Okay. So, are you wanting a welfare check done on her then? Please. Okay. What is your name,
00:02:12
sir? My name is Neil in the aisle. The caller struggled to provide clear details, but it was apparent that
00:02:20
someone inside the home was unresponsive. With limited information, two officers
00:02:26
were quickly dispatched to investigate the strange situation, not knowing exactly what they'd find upon their
00:02:32
arrival. What's up? I hear the dog whining from the basement. Mom tells me screws up the
00:02:39
kitchen that she's uh got a date on the way. Okay. And I guess it's that date on
00:02:46
the computer or on the tenders or whatever. I don't know. I'm afraid to go in that room. I
00:02:54
hear a dog whining in that room. So you live here, sir? I live in the basement, man. I had open heart surgery a year and
00:03:01
a half ago. She She turned the country music on real loud so I can't hear. Oh, she did that. My mom does it every day.
00:03:09
Blast it. Some old uh soral country music cuz she misses her husband or whatever, but she's bringing guys into
00:03:16
the house there. So, unfortunately, she can do that. Um, we can certainly check on her though to make sure she's okay if
00:03:23
you live there. Please. Certainly, man. The dog is whining. So, you live in this house
00:03:30
though? I live in the basement. Okay. So, you live here? That's all I needed. Man, I'm not. This
00:03:37
dog is trying to get out. Well, I tell you what. How about this? How about you go see if you can get her to come out
00:03:44
here before we go inside? Clearly intoxicated, Neil struggled to explain himself. It sounded like his mother had
00:03:51
a date over, but he failed to clarify what was wrong. Despite their uncertainty, officers followed Neil
00:03:58
inside, completely unaware of the gruesome murder scene they were walking into. What's up, dude? You go. Why do I have
00:04:09
to get up? I'm telling you, she ain't going to get up. Okay, but you can hear her. You She's not a word. I pushed her
00:04:15
a couple times. She's bleeding out the mouth. She's what? Bleeding out the mouth.
00:04:25
She's bleeding out the mouth. Police department. Police Department. You said she got blood coming out of her
00:04:35
mouth. I [ __ ] you not. Call her name. Ma'am. [Music] Oh [ __ ] Officers stepped inside to find Neil's
00:04:58
mother, Norma McCarrick, lying unconscious on her bed with a cord wrapped around her neck. It was clear
00:05:05
she'd been strangled, but Officer Alex quickly realized something else. She might still be alive.
00:05:18
Where'd that guy go? Right now, let's give him 146. Keep rolling here. She is choking. Somebody an
00:05:42
welcome in. Welcome in. As Neil was detained and removed from the scene, officer Alex immediately began
00:05:50
performing CPR on Norma. She wasn't breathing, but her body was still warm, indicating she had only recently stopped
00:05:56
breathing, and there was still hope she could be saved. What? Hey, LT. Yeah, this come here real quick. She's still
00:06:05
warm to the touch. Somebody Somebody strangled her. This is homicide, man. So, we have not cleared the rest of the
00:06:09
house yet. Okay, I'm going to keep working on her. Uh, he's still the son's intoxicated. He said somebody ran out
00:06:15
the back. No description. We have him detained in the car. He's in the car. We have him detained. Okay. I don't know.
00:06:22
He said he had she had somebody over here, but he said that she was just talking to him a couple minutes ago.
00:06:28
She's warm. No pulse. Not conscious, not breathing. Officer Alex continued performing CPR for over 7
00:06:36
minutes, desperately trying to save Norma's life. Paramedics soon arrived and immediately took over, continuing
00:06:43
life-saving efforts. At the same time, officers scrambled to search the property for the man Neil claimed had
00:06:49
fled the scene. A K9 unit was dispatched to track any trace of the mysterious suspect.
00:06:55
You might want to get a K9 track started. He said uh somebody ran out the back door. He's
00:07:05
intoxicated. It looks like somebody wrapped a bungee cord around her neck. Okay. Where was Dude at when we got
00:07:10
here? He was outside. He We contacted him. How? My first client basement stairs leading into
00:07:30
the basement heading south. [Music] [Music] north back door. Do doors locked. Despite their efforts, the mysterious
00:08:00
date seemed to have vanished without a trace, and the search revealed no tracks or evidence indicating where he'd gone.
00:08:07
Back inside the house, there was nothing the paramedics could do to save Norma. Too much time had passed with her airway
00:08:14
blocked, and she was declared deceased at the scene. What officers didn't yet realize is that Norma was the wife of
00:08:22
the late Charles Carricker, the former mayor of Troy, Illinois. Since then, she's been trying to rebuild her life
00:08:29
with her son, Neil Howard, whose own father had also died tragically years before. These details would become much
00:08:37
more important later on in the investigation. But for now, officers had no immediate
00:08:44
clues to track down Norma's date. So, they brought Neil to the police station, hoping his sober recollection might help
00:08:50
clarify exactly what happened. Initially, investigators believed they had a clear-cut case. Either Neil Howard
00:08:57
was responsible for his mother's murder or the unidentified date she spent the evening with was. But they had no idea
00:09:05
Neil's interview was only the tip of the iceberg. And soon they'd uncover others
00:09:10
close to Norma with strong motives to see her dead. But before we get to that, have you ever wondered what your
00:09:16
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00:09:56
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00:10:08
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00:10:15
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00:10:39
Hey, what am I doing here, man? Do you recall my music? Here's the thing. You are our
00:10:45
only link to any information at this moment, but we have to get the key in the front room. And now I'm going in the
00:10:53
wrong room. We have to get search warrant them before we can do anything. Why am I here? Because you're our only
00:11:00
link to information. Without you, we have nothing. I need you over here. Okay. Yeah. I'll get you a bottle of
00:11:09
water. Just fine. [Music] Everybody's going to be disappointed in me. and killed my at the station. Neil's
00:11:24
severe intoxication prevented detectives from reading him his Miranda rightites or questioning him. They had no choice
00:11:30
but to let him sleep it off overnight, hoping he'd be sober enough later in the day.
00:11:38
By morning, police were back at Norma's home, preparing to speak with family members arriving at the scene. Until
00:11:44
now, investigators only had Neil's unreliable story to guide them. However, this would soon change as officers would
00:11:52
unexpectedly cross paths with their next prime suspect. So, we're going to have we're going to
00:11:58
let the corner come out and talk to you, too. Okay. Okay. Kind of explain a little bit about Is my mom deceased?
00:12:04
Yes, ma'am. Okay. Yes, ma'am. Is my brother in jail? Uh, he's being talked to right now um
00:12:13
about cuz he was he lives here, too. So, we all just woke up and we all just kind
00:12:18
of Neil blew my phone up last night and so I I just kind of had a feeling um something What do you mean he blew your
00:12:26
phone up on Facebook? He told me that uh my mom had some guy over here and that they were I guess having or something
00:12:37
like that. Um and it was gross and you know. So, what time was that? Um 1:30. But I just wanted you guys to
00:12:46
know that there's probably a bunch of people on their way right now to, you know, my sister's coming. Neil's
00:12:52
girlfriend's coming. So, how did you get alerted to this today? What exactly happened? I got a call from my friend
00:12:59
that lives in this neighborhood back here. Mhm. At 5:50 a.m. I guess she was maybe on her way to work and she called
00:13:06
to see if everything was okay. So, there was a bunch of police at my mom's with caution. Okay. Who was that? Who called?
00:13:13
Her name is Lorie. When was when was the last time you talked to Norma? Honestly, I haven't
00:13:20
talked to her. [Music] It has been probably I don't know. It's been It's been several months.
00:13:30
When was the last time you talked to Neil? It was last night before I went to bed. What time was that? Um probably
00:13:36
around 11:00. Between 1 and two, I missed a gazillion calls and I woke up just a bit to go and then I couldn't get
00:13:44
any call and answer and I got and just said we're just going to be here. That's what was going on. So you said he text
00:13:52
you. Yeah, he was freaking out like I can't understand how I do, you know. Do you mind showing me those texts, please?
00:14:07
which is different than what he told our officers said he hadn't made contact with her yet.
00:14:16
Yeah. So, as officers continued speaking with Norma's daughters, Andrea and Jenny, and Neil's girlfriend, Dawn,
00:14:23
something odd quickly stood out. Despite being informed that her mother had just
00:14:29
died, Andrea's demeanor was unusually upbeat. She seemed strangely calm for someone who had just lost a parent in
00:14:38
such a violent way. But while officers were still gathering statements, their attention was suddenly drawn away when a
00:14:46
white pickup truck slowly drove by. Hi, is Norma. All right? [Music] Well, she's a close friend of mine. Is
00:14:56
Norma all right? Well, we'll uh discuss that in a little bit. Okay, sir. Terry De That's Terry Des.
00:15:04
They had a very relationship. This was the first time officers made direct contact with Terry Deeds. Dawn confirmed
00:15:12
he was Norma's boyfriend, quickly adding that their relationship was known to be
00:15:17
turbulent. Yet, when Terry drove by the scene, he referred to Norma simply as a close friend, clearly downplaying their
00:15:26
connection. These details quickly placed Terry Deetsz as a key person of interest
00:15:31
in Norma's murder. And detectives would soon uncover that Terry not only had a complicated relationship with Norma, but
00:15:38
also a tempting financial motive. So to move forward, detectives brought Terry in for questioning later that day.
00:15:46
They needed to understand the nature of this relationship with Norma, confirm his whereabouts on the night she was
00:15:52
killed, and most importantly, find out if he had any hidden motives to want her dead. Tell me, let me write your pencil.
00:16:03
You got to help me with some information. Well, that's kind of what we need you for, too, is we know you
00:16:09
know normal very well. Yes. Um, I know you guys have been dating or in love or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I I I
00:16:17
never got really close close to normal. So, when is the last time you talked to her? 7:45 p.m. last night. Oh, okay. Um,
00:16:28
she asked me to come out to Lucky Rooster in St. Jacob. So, 7:45 p.m. at Lucky Rooster. Yes. You were out there
00:16:36
and saw her? Yes. Was anybody else there? I'm saying nobody else there or anything of that sort. No, no, that's
00:16:42
the same table. Okay, perfect. Uh, no. No, no, not even at the table. Like, did it look like there was a guy hanging out
00:16:47
at the bar? Like he was trying to hit on her or talk to her or anything that Oh,
00:16:51
I could I didn't have noticed. Okay, that's what I mean by that though. There's nobody else there type of
00:16:56
things. Terry told detectives he'd seen Norma earlier that evening at her workplace, the Lucky Rooster. It wasn't
00:17:03
much, but it was the first solid lead detectives had about Norma's final hours. However, something about Terry's
00:17:10
demeanor caught detectives attention. Terry seemed strangely calm, almost detached, despite learning that Norma
00:17:18
had just died under suspicious circumstances hours ago. This lack of emotion would soon make more sense when
00:17:27
detectives asked Terry about Norma's will. Do you know if she had a will or life insurance policy or anything of
00:17:36
that sort that you would have been a beneficiary? Yes, I am the beneficiary on New York Life. Okay. What uh what is
00:17:45
it? How much? What What is it? You said it's New York Life. Is it a life insurance? It's a It's a life insurance
00:17:53
policy for on Norma. Yes. Okay. This question wasn't asked at random. Detectives had already zeroed in on a
00:18:02
critical piece of information Terry wasn't aware of. After his suspicious interaction with officers earlier in the
00:18:08
morning, detectives took a closer look into his relationship with Norma. They quickly discovered Terry was the sole
00:18:14
beneficiary of one of Norma's life insurance policies and that just hours after learning of her death, he had
00:18:20
already contacted the insurance company, urgently inquiring about collecting the
00:18:25
$14,000 payout. And the timing couldn't have been more suspicious as Terry's call came shortly after he drove past
00:18:32
the crime scene and asked officers about Norma's condition. With this revelation,
00:18:38
Terry Deetsz quickly became one of the prime suspects in Norma's murder alongside Neil Howard, Norma's volatile
00:18:45
son, and her still unidentified date. Conveniently, once Terry started feeling the pressure, he began pointing fingers
00:18:54
elsewhere. I told Norma so many times that he needs to find another place to live.
00:19:03
I told I he's going to in that kill. Why did you say that? He would get I raped. I saw him get I raped. This was
00:19:16
several months ago at normal because she wouldn't give him any money to to go get
00:19:23
boobs. She sat down doing that. I'm not going to give you any more [ __ ] money and blah blah blah. And he was tired.
00:19:31
Terry wasted no time deflecting suspicion onto Neil Howard, characterizing him as an aggressive,
00:19:37
violent alcoholic. Detectives saw through Terry's tactic right away. But this next statement would actually force
00:19:44
detectives to reconsider Neil as a serious threat. Is there anybody else you think of that we should talk to?
00:19:51
Hey, you probably ought to talk to this person or hey, this person. Somebody we wouldn't know or would miss or hey that
00:19:58
would kill normal. Well, that would even know anything about Mormon or that could
00:20:02
relate anything to do with normal. As I sat there this morning, I was thinking about,
00:20:07
you know, going through records and stuff and what them kids would blame me or accuse me of
00:20:16
because they know I didn't like them because of the way they treated their mother. They're they were very mean to
00:20:24
their mom. Well, what do you know about your son now? Well, I know she had a lot of problems
00:20:31
with him. Uh um if I will, let me start with what I know. He killed his dad uh supposedly to go self-defense.
00:20:45
Terry's claim here wasn't just a defensive reaction. It was a troubling fact that would compel detectives to end
00:20:52
his interview and shift their attention. On November 21st, 2005 in Mosquite, Texas, Neil Howard shot and killed his
00:21:04
father, George Howard. According to Neil, the two had been drinking heavily and arguing throughout the day. The
00:21:12
fight escalated when George fired around inside the home. Neil claimed that during the struggle to take the gun
00:21:18
away, it went off, striking his father through the eye and killing him instantly. Neil was 26 at the time. He
00:21:27
called his sister Andrea who urged him to contact the police. When officers arrived, they found him inside the house
00:21:34
severely intoxicated. Neil insisted it was self-defense. He was arrested and charged, but the trial ended in a hung
00:21:43
jury. Eventually, Neil was acquitted and the case was closed. Now, suspicion hung
00:21:50
heavily over both men. Neil's violent past was undeniably troubling, and without corroborating his account and
00:21:56
locating Norma's date, detectives couldn't clear him. Similarly, Terry's quick presence at the crime scene and
00:22:03
his suspiciously swift attempt to claim Norma's life insurance meant detectives needed to thoroughly verify his alibi as
00:22:10
well. Detectives needed to keep a close eye on both men for the moment and focus
00:22:14
their investigation on identifying the mysterious man Norma spent the evening with. Fortunately, Terry had given
00:22:21
detectives a crucial lead when he mentioned that Norma was working at the Lucky Rooster on the evening before her
00:22:27
death. So, to verify this statement, officers visited Norma's workplace to speak with her co-workers and collect
00:22:33
any helpful information. When officers arrived at the Lucky Rooster, they discovered something crucial.
00:22:38
Surveillance cameras that had captured footage from that very night. What detectives saw on those recordings would
00:22:44
open an entirely new set of questions. On the evening of September 12th, 2023, surveillance footage captured Norma
00:22:52
Carraker leaving the Lucky Rooster with an unidentified man. This footage marks the beginning of Norma's last known
00:23:00
movements. Approximately 30 minutes later, Norma and the same man were captured by cameras arriving at the
00:23:06
Timeout Bar and Grill. Footage showed them spending roughly an hour inside, talking, drinking, and appearing
00:23:13
comfortable in each other's company before leaving together. It was the last time Norma was seen alive.
00:23:21
With a bungee cord used to strangle Norma, detectives quickly concluded this murder was personal, possibly a crime of
00:23:28
anger or jealousy. They speculated that this mysterious date could have turned violent for some reason, strangling
00:23:35
Norma and fleeing before police arrived. The absence of forced entry further supported Neil's story. Detectives now
00:23:42
urgently needed Neil's sober recollection to identify and locate Norma's date. After several hours in custody, Neil
00:23:50
Howard was finally sober enough to speak with detectives. They needed his recollection to gain some clarity.
00:23:56
Without it, they had no way to identify Norma's date or determine Neil's own fate in the investigation.
00:24:04
She told me usually expected about 8:30 and she said she going to get company and I heard my
00:24:12
mom's voice and I sit there in the bedroom think listen I heard the bathroom banging off the either the
00:24:21
headboard or or the dresser. Is that where they said? Yes. Okay. And then I heard her saying you ain't got to leave.
00:24:31
You ain't got to go. And it wasn't because of me making noise. I didn't hear that. And I get up and check to
00:24:37
make sure that she the back door is closed. And that's what you did. You went upstairs to make sure I heard the
00:24:44
dog whining in her room. And did you go in there? No, I didn't open it to her door. Her door was closed. I went down
00:24:51
there. I was like, "Wer, come here. Weren, come here." And And you said the door to her room was closed and the dog
00:24:56
was outside. No, the dog was inside, but the door was cracked. My mom went hollering or my mom wouldn't answer. My
00:25:03
mom's a very voiceless person. All right. And the way it went silent was eerie. What made you decide to call?
00:25:11
Because my grandma had an uncle that they tried to say he said with uh his dad's father type thing. Right from the
00:25:21
start, detectives noticed Neil's story wasn't adding up. On the 911 call, Neil implied he had already found his mother
00:25:30
unresponsive. But now in the interview room, he insisted he didn't enter her room until officers arrived. Neil would
00:25:37
continue giving fragmented accounts throughout the interview, struggling to clearly recall important details. But in
00:25:43
between his confused recollections, he suddenly brought up another man. Someone he claimed was actively manipulating his
00:25:49
mother. Norma, she got a guy. I tell you this guy, I threaten this guy. Perry is his name and we and she pays.
00:25:59
She don't need to work three jobs. Tom Carrick took care of all that. She has no bills. This guy every day. He's she
00:26:08
just was on his side to sue my other sister for 30 G's. This guy runs around town. She's supporting this guy. You
00:26:18
just name Terry. Terry. Though the details were disjointed, Neil seemed upset with Terry Deeds, the same
00:26:26
man already under suspicion of Norma's murder, accusing him of taking advantage of his mother, draining her money, and
00:26:32
turning her against the rest of the family. Neil's anger towards Terry further confirmed detectives existing
00:26:38
suspicions, giving them even more reason to closely scrutinize his involvement. But by now, Neil had been at the station
00:26:46
for several hours and was becoming anxious, demanding to leave. Detectives still didn't inform him of his mother's
00:26:53
death, and holding him any longer without explaining why was becoming difficult to justify. It was time to
00:27:02
deliver the tragic news and brace for Neil's reaction. I got to give my sister very long. This is going to ruin
00:27:09
everything. Everybody think I want to let her down slow and I don't want to tell anybody's fault for nothing. Your
00:27:15
mom's deceased, right? No, your mom's deceased. I said she was hurt. Your mom's deceased.
00:27:21
So that's why we're making this into what we need to have you around available for us. Okay.
00:27:29
I'd like to see my sister. Oh, I heard you. Oh, sit down. Okay. No, you're not leaving. You're not leaving. Yeah,
00:27:37
you're not leaving. Oh, was that right? Your mother's deceased. The elder. One of the person we know that saw her last
00:27:43
that we can talk to. I didn't see her last night. You did, too. I seen her last night. You walked in there when the
00:27:49
officers asked you to. You were the last one there with her. So, you're the only
00:27:52
one we have. You're the last person that saw her, correct? I didn't see her last
00:27:57
night until they told me to go in there. Absolutely. We know that. But then you spoke with her at 8:30. I knew it. You
00:28:02
spoke with her at 8:30. Call my sister and let me talk to her. After learning of his mother's death, Neil grew
00:28:09
increasingly agitated throughout the remainder of the interview, eventually requesting a lawyer and forcing
00:28:15
detectives to end their questioning. With Neil shutting down the interview and refusing to cooperate further,
00:28:23
detectives had no choice but to find another way to identify Norma's mysterious date. Hoping for a
00:28:28
breakthrough, investigators sent officers to search for additional surveillance footage from locations
00:28:33
Norma and her date passed by that night. and they quickly hit the jackpot. One security camera clearly captured the
00:28:40
vehicle Norma's date was driving. By running the license plate, detectives identified him as James Carter.
00:28:46
Detectives urgently needed to speak with James, the only other known person at Norma's house that night besides Neil.
00:28:53
When they first approached him, he was uncooperative and outright denied seeing Norma. It wasn't until officers obtained
00:29:00
a warrant for his cell phone data that he and his lawyer agreed to speak. On the condition that James received
00:29:06
immunity and would not be subpoenaed for the trial. Once immunity was secured, he
00:29:11
cooperated, provided a DNA sample, and shared his account of the evening. James explained that he met Norma on the
00:29:18
dating site Plenty of Fish and arranged to meet at her workplace before heading to the bar for a few drinks. After
00:29:24
leaving the bar, Norma invited him back to her house, and they spent an intimate
00:29:28
hour together at Norma's. However, James insisted Norma was alive and unharmed when he left around 11 p.m. Cell phone
00:29:36
data corroborated his story, placing him back in St. Louis, where he lived, well
00:29:41
before the estimated time of Norma's death. With James Carter officially cleared,
00:29:47
the investigation was narrowed to two suspects, Neil Howard and Terry Deetsz. Both men had means and opportunity. Both
00:29:56
shared complicated, deeply rooted relationships with Norma. But without any physical evidence, detectives
00:30:02
couldn't solve this with timelines alone. They needed a clearer understanding of Norma's personal life
00:30:08
to pinpoint which of the two suspects was more capable of killing her. To do this, investigators brought Norma's
00:30:15
daughters in, Andrea and Jenny, as well as Neil's girlfriend, Dawn, hoping their
00:30:20
insights would single out the likely killer. However, these interviews would instead reveal a hidden detail from
00:30:27
Norma's personal life. One that would turn the very people brought in to help into potential suspects themselves.
00:30:37
Sorry. So, I'd greatly appreciate taking time to come to me. time and the patience.
00:30:45
And then just like I said, my my biggest issue is, you know, I I love my mom. Me and my mom
00:30:52
have always been super close, but this Terry guy came in and he has just totally broken her down. So,
00:31:02
do you think Neil could have had enough of an issue to hurt your mom? I don't put it past him,
00:31:10
especially when he's drunk and drugging. And I mean, yeah. Tell me a little bit about what's
00:31:21
been going on with your mom. She was so in love with that man. It's sickening, you know, and and just my
00:31:28
mom's relationship with Terry meant more to her, you know, than the relationship
00:31:34
with her daughter. Well, and I guess what I'm saying is that Terry Terry just uses my mom, you know, for her money and
00:31:40
caused her fat and, you know, she lost just lost a bunch of weight. That being said, she would look for love on a lot
00:31:47
of these dating sites and so when we were living with her, she would Andrea, come here. You know, I mean, she was
00:31:54
talking to multiple different and I'd even said to her one time, I'm like, you're going to end up dead. Like, you
00:31:59
don't even know who you're talking to. I mean, I've been over there several times
00:32:03
since then, and this is what I can tell you. My mom and Neil are both alcoholics.
00:32:10
My mom doesn't handle hers very well. She um becomes very belligerent. Um, and every time she's been
00:32:20
belligerent with Neil, he always tucks his head and goes downstairs. I know my brother better than anybody in this
00:32:28
world. like I am my brother's keeper for real and he wouldn't have he wouldn't have hurt
00:32:37
her. He wouldn't have I've been through this before. I know. Andrea and Jenny's interviews further confirmed that
00:32:45
Norma's relationship with Terry and Neil was strained, troubled, and complicated.
00:32:51
And Andrea's subtle mention that she'd been through this before reinforced the detectives concerns about the family's
00:32:57
violent past. However, when Neil's girlfriend, Dawn, entered the interview room, she would reveal something
00:33:04
detectives never saw coming. A financial motive powerful enough to make everyone
00:33:10
close to Norma a potential suspect. Three things come up. So, I wanted to go over my car, ask you to
00:33:25
6:00 this morning, no one knew what happened and we all just pulled up. Terry shows up. Well, what happened to
00:33:33
Norman? 6:00 in the morning, we all just showed up on site. Terry should not have
00:33:40
known anything of what happened, but yet he shows up in front of the house. So, Norma had a date last night. Um, I don't
00:33:47
know who it was. She goes on these weird dating sites which I warned her about. You don't know who you're talking to,
00:33:54
right? Norma has a habit of telling people that she's got all this money. So that's another thing to look into.
00:34:00
Everything in my body tells me Terry had something to do with it. Nor was extremely depressed all the time. Terry
00:34:06
is a big problem. Um if Terry thought that his income was coming to a close, if she was dating, it would probably
00:34:14
make him very angry. She had an escrow. millions and millions and millions of dollars.
00:34:21
If Terry did the beneficiary and Norma was gone, Terry gets up to $5 million. So, you're saying this year Norma would
00:34:28
have gotten Thomas State? Yes. Like $5 million? Do we know that for certain? Cuz I say
00:34:36
that cuz I don't know that that he was worth that much. Yeah, for certain. According to Dawn, Norma was due to
00:34:44
receive a multi-million dollar payout from the estate of her late husband, Charles Carricker, a former mayor of
00:34:51
Troy, Illinois, and a longtime local businessman. This revelation changed everything. Suddenly, anyone close to
00:35:00
Norma who knew anything about the money had a potential motive. Neil Howard, her
00:35:04
financially dependent son, struggling with alcoholism. Terry Deetsz, her ex-boyfriend known for financial
00:35:10
manipulation, and even her daughters, Andrea and Jenny, who stood to inherit a life-changing sum. With the suspect pool
00:35:18
rapidly expanding, detectives began preparing to closely examine everyone who might benefit from Norma's death.
00:35:24
But before they get to that, they caught a lucky break. Neil Howard suddenly requested to speak
00:35:31
to detectives without a lawyer. He was quickly brought back for a second interview where he would finally provide
00:35:37
detectives with some clarity. Or so they hoped. My mom, she she comes home from one job. She works like three jobs.
00:35:46
She's a sugar mama to more than one guy. She Do you know these guys? I know of one, but somehow she going online
00:36:01
and meeting guys. random random guys coming in and out of the house. That's got to be tough for you. It's her son. I
00:36:08
I usually gone. I usually leave or I'm in bed. I'm sleep. I didn't even see her yesterday. She goes from one job to the
00:36:16
other. And my sister was supposed to come by and take me to her old house which is in Troy to clean it to make
00:36:23
sure it was clean cuz she was showing it. My sister didn't have showing up. I I hear my mom upstairs. She comes in,
00:36:30
changes shirt, changes. She usually gone. She usually um calls me when she's leaving her other job to ask me if she
00:36:38
want anything to eat. She called me later than usual. She called me. We looked at the phone. She called me at
00:36:44
9:30. I believe about4 after 9 and says, you know, about time 9:30. And she said, "I got to have
00:36:56
company." which that means you can't make a noise, you know. Don't make a peep. Don't go upstairs. You're not
00:37:04
there. Basically, I said, "All right, so what? I got to hurry up." She said, "Just take all the clothes off the
00:37:11
kitchen table and throw them in the laundry room." So, I took all the clothes and threw them in there and I
00:37:17
pulled the door as close as I could so nobody will see what was in there. So, I didn't see her drop her car off, but
00:37:25
when I went back downstairs, I heard the car door. I can hear it from the basement.
00:37:31
Can't see nothing cuz the windows are real high. I called my girlfriend one more time and I said, "So, no chance of
00:37:38
you coming." She broke her foot last weekend, so it's hard for her to drive. And I said, "No chance you coming
00:37:45
tonight?" And she said, "I can't, but you got me all day tomorrow." And I started sending her like love songs
00:37:54
and that and then I called my sister again want to know why she didn't show up. What am I supposed to do about
00:37:59
dressing? I'm giving her away on Saturday. I didn't want to wear a tuxedo or am I wearing dress code? No answer.
00:38:09
No answer. So I bugged her for a while. According to Neil, at around 10:30 p.m.,
00:38:16
he heard the sliding door slam shut, indicating Norma's date had left. While this matched James Carter's statement,
00:38:22
it didn't explain why Neil waited almost 3 hours before calling 911, claiming he'd found his mother unresponsive
00:38:30
immediately after someone had just left the house. Those missing hours were critical to solving Norma's murder, and
00:38:36
the detective was about to put Neil's timeline under intense scrutiny to extract any major inconsistencies in his
00:38:43
alibi. Were you drinking last night? I was. What did you have to drink? You'll see.
00:38:50
I got a big um big jug. It was probably sitting right there by my phone. I drink that on
00:38:58
that jug two days. So, I want to go back to I want to understand this a little bit more. Why this particular night did
00:39:06
you decide to go check on her if that's a normal? I went cuz I heard the back door. So, you hear the you can hear the
00:39:14
sliding back door over the country music. So, I could hear her talking to the dog.
00:39:21
Okay. And she was like, "Get in here." And I heard her say to whoever was there, "You ain't what?" hollering out
00:39:29
her door, hollering, "You ain't got to leave so fast." So, when you crack the door to let the dog out of your mom's
00:39:37
bedroom? Yeah. Could you see your mom? I thought she was sleeping. So, then why did you call the police? I called my
00:39:44
sister and I called my girlfriend first. If your mom sleeps face down in between
00:39:50
pillows with a blanket over her, why? What made you decide to call the police? If that's a normal crying at the door.
00:40:02
This was the first major inconsistency in Neil's story. He was now admitting he'd entered his mother's bedroom and
00:40:10
seen her covered with a blanket, completely contradicting his earlier claim that he didn't go in until
00:40:16
instructed by officers. But rather than immediately calling him out on the lie, the detective decided to take a more
00:40:22
subtle approach, carefully empathizing with him and probing the complicated dynamics between Neil and his mother.
00:40:29
The goal was simple, to encourage Neil to reveal why he hadn't been fully truthful about that night. You don't
00:40:36
have a car. And and to me, I guess where I struggle, and I feel bad for you. I I
00:40:41
do. I think that you got dealt a [ __ ] hand cuz you poor guy been through hell and back with health issues. And then
00:40:48
you have to live in this basement, all the sewage, the broth. Yeah. And then on top of that, you're expected to be quiet
00:40:57
every time your mom brings a new man home. And you have to sit there and listen to her sex. And I tell you right
00:41:02
now, I I would be um I would be upset. This is a known fact. You can ask my sisters,
00:41:09
you know, by telling my mom is dangerous. Your mom's dangerous? No. These random guys.
00:41:17
Yeah. But you know what, man? sleeping in a basement putting on earplugs to avoid listening to your mom and have
00:41:25
random guys coming over and listen to country music real loud and Neil's acknowledgement of the tension
00:41:31
between him and his mother was exactly what the detective wanted. A grown man financially dependent stuck at home
00:41:38
while his mother dated other men. Neil openly acknowledged this uncomfortable dynamic, yet remained emotionally
00:41:45
detached, showing none of the rage previously seen during his arrest. As the interview progressed, Neil's
00:41:51
responses began to slip, revealing more contradictions and doubts about his story. But one specific detail stood out
00:41:58
to detectives. Neil never once asked how his mother died. Most people facing such
00:42:06
news would desperately seek answers. Neil's lack of curiosity felt suspiciously intentional, as if he
00:42:13
already knew. With this, detectives wrapped up Neil's final interview with uncertainty still surrounding his alibi
00:42:20
and shifted their focus back to Terry Deetsz, their other primary suspect. After thoroughly examining phone
00:42:27
records, DNA evidence, and multiple witness statements, detectives confirmed Terry was at home nursing a minor injury
00:42:34
the entire night, never leaving his property after 9:00 p.m. Physical evidence from the crime scene further
00:42:39
cleared Terry. Additionally, investigators carefully examined the possibility of Norma's daughters, Andrea
00:42:46
and Jenny, having a financial motive due to their substantial inheritance. However, their phone records and alibis
00:42:52
during the critical time frame were verified, and detectives found no additional evidence suggesting their
00:42:58
involvement in their mother's death. So, with Terry cleared and Norma's daughters
00:43:03
rolled out, detectives were left with just one suspect, Neil Howard. By now, it was clear Neil wasn't going to
00:43:11
confess. But detectives were confident that the contradictions, inconsistencies, and his behavior
00:43:17
following Norma's death provided enough proof to secure a conviction. Ultimately, investigators felt certain
00:43:24
Neil Howard was responsible for his mother's murder, and they formally charged him.
00:43:32
At the trial, prosecutors argue that sometime between 10:30 p.m. and 1:30 a.m., Neil, heavily intoxicated and
00:43:39
increasingly volatile, entered Norma's bedroom. An argument may have broken out, or perhaps the tension had been
00:43:46
simmering all day. At some point, Neil strangled Norma with a bungee cord, then covered her up with a blanket. Instead
00:43:53
of immediately calling for help, Neil repeatedly tried contacting his sister, Andrea, just as he'd done years earlier
00:43:59
after killing his father. Phone records revealed that Neil started calling Andrea at 12:49 a.m. making seven
00:44:06
attempts to reach her. The final call occurring at 1:30 a.m. moments before dialing 911. The jury reviewed Neil's
00:44:14
shifting accounts, the physical evidence, and his documented history of violence. Prosecutors painted a clear
00:44:20
picture. Neil Howard was unstable, violent, and entirely capable of murder. On February 10th, 2025, Neil Howard was
00:44:30
found guilty of first-degree murder. His sentencing is still pending, but he faces up to 60 years behind bars.
00:44:37
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