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[Music]
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kiwi's Love at
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First like Finn we're making
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[Music]
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waves generate switch online
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[Music]
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today Erin rff welcome to my podcast
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thank you so much so you're um born in
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New Zealand um spent most of your life
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in Canada and now play tennis for New
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Zealand you is there is you is that like
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kadian oh I've never heard that one no I
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just made that up yeah I like that
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Canadian kiwi that's what people call me
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but who knows where does where does your
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heart feel do you does your heart feel
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like in New Zealand or does it feel in
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Canada or I think it's a bit of both I
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think you know with my family being
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mostly in Canada that's a big one and um
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but since you know playing for New
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Zealand and all my life since being born
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in New Zealand it's been a big part of
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me in somewhere that I wanted to come
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back to so I think since playing and you
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know I think sport I don't know it
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changes everything but I do think that
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with with you know going to the Olympics
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now and representing New Zealand for
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like the last I think eight years that's
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a really big part of me and that's like
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huge part of my journey so so there's
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two concerts on at different venues in
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the same night who would you rather go
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and see like nickel Beck or 660
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660 if someone answered nickel back
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there'd be a huge problem okay okay
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maybe that's an a nickel thing rather
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than okay
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um Drake or scribe I don't know that's
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what other kiwi rappers can we think of
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yeah oh I that's an unfair I would do
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Drake but I wouldn't got a drake okay
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alanus or
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Lord Lord again okay okay okay we take
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care we'll take care um hey it's it's
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great to have you here there's so much
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to your story that um I want to get to
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like um your adventurous parents how
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they ended up in New Zealand and
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therefore how you ended up being a New
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Zealander um but first of all I think
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it's worth acknowledging just how
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[ __ ] awesome you are um ranked for a
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time uh in 2024 as the world's number
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one women's doubles player at the moment
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when you we're sitting down your ranking
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is I think two yeah number two in the in
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the world yeah it's crazy yeah no pretty
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wild pretty wild to think about I still
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honestly a little bit of it doesn't
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really feel real but at the same time
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yeah I mean it's what I've worked
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obviously my whole life towards so yeah
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no I'm I'm I'm obviously very proud of
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myself and I'm really excited also for
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to keep going tennis never really ends
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so I'm excited to you know just keep
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going so US Open winner 2023 uh
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Wimbledon finalist in the doubles 2024
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and winner of the W WTA doubles in Saudi
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Arabia 2024 what the [ __ ] this is
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crazy oh that's funny like it it is also
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I'm Pro I've probably got some dumb
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questions about the the difference
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between singles versus doubles and
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Tennis um first of all like how are how
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are you ranked number two and your
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partner Gabby is ranked number three why
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aren't you seeking eal good question so
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we have like obviously we play almost
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every tournament together but we have
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different rankings and so Gabby missed
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the clay season in 2024 so she missed
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like two months two and a half months
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and so during that I was playing with
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other partners and getting more points
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so that's why I'm like a little bit
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ahead of her and then like the number
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one uh girl she played uh French Open
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and Wimbledon well she played honestly
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the whole year with a bunch of different
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people but she like won French Open with
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a different partner and then one
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Wimbledon with a different partner so
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that's why she's like number one so we
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have like separate rankings but a lot of
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the times you'll see with like doubles
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partners that play all the time together
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is you have like a tie so it'll be like
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one and then like two two and we both
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are two and then it'll go to four so
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it's kind of weird thanks for that
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explanation that makes so much sense I
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imagine like you and Gabby playing all
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these games together and then the Jud
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going well Aon had two more shots or
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what
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yeah that would be funny that would
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actually be a good way to do it so so
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the um the break that you're talking
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about which um your partner Gabby and
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we'll get into Gabby she missed the clay
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season you said is that was that due to
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her yeah breast cancer yeah exactly so
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she found out in April and that's why
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she missed a lot or I mean not as much
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as the season as she potentially could
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have but yeah that's why she missed it
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and and is that when when you went off
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and had a fear with um Coco golf yes
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exactly that's exactly it yeah cuz that
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was uh that was big in New Zealand
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everyone was really excited that I was
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playing with C so yeah we played Rome
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together and we lost in the final which
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was well I mean Coco gol's like a legion
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like um you I think she made something
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like $30 million last year yeah no she's
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she is a legend she's um and she's also
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super nice super down to earth one of
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the people on tour that always is saying
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hello to everybody and super I'm one of
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like I'm a huge fan she's great right
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now we're recording this at the Pod Lab
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Studios you're sharing an Airbnb just
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around the corner with your partner
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Gabby you're not sharing a two-bedroom
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apartment with Coco golf
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right not at tournaments no no no no no
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it's a little different when we're in
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our separate hotels yeah so um there was
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an a article in the New Zealand Herald
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recently about you and it described you
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and I wanted to know if if you thought
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this is fear or like rude or what you
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thought about it described you as the
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greatest New Zealand tennis player
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you've never heard of oh I did see that
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no I don't no I don't find that
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offensive I think funny or it's funny I
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thought it was funny and they used it a
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couple times which was kind of hilarious
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um I first time second time yeah um I
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think I mean tennis in New Zealand is
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not as po it's getting more popular
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obviously with me and Miche G Venus
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Marcus Daniel and then obviously Lulu I
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think um that's the goal is to make
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tennis more popular so I think they're
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just saying like you've never heard of
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us or me or whatever because it's just
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not as popular I mean Rugby's kind of
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ruling everything but we're trying to
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change that 100% but I think there'll be
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people listening to this podcast that
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that that'll be like um alarmed that
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you're number two in the world you were
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number one in the world last year and
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they haven't necessarily heard of you
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yeah no totally yeah no I I mean
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honestly I think just getting our
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stories out there my story out there
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about obviously people they see me
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representing New Zealand and then they
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hear me talk and they're like huh what's
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that background you know what I mean cuz
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everyone's like oh she sounds so
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American um so yeah just getting the
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story out there and like letting people
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learn about me I think is really
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exciting because that's I mean everyone
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has a I mean Sports is amazing because
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everyone has such a cool story and I
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love talking about like mine so yeah and
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you you've represented New Zealand for
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such a long time so you you you turned
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Pro you played for Canada for a tiny bit
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like a year couple of years uh I played
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for Canada in my junior career and then
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I went to University and I played like
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maybe three pro events during that so
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that was for Canada um and then as
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immediately in my senior year of
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University then I switched to play from
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New Zealand so didn't really play pro
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for Canada at all and what does it mean
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to represent New Zealand oh it means
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everything I I think it was uh it was
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such a good decision and I'm like so
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happy about it now I mean one of the
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main reasons I did it was to go to the
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Olympics so now I've you know checked
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that off my goal list and I wanted to
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make history so hopefully I am I know
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I'm I think I'm doing it and I hope I
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can continue oh my God are you kidding
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me some of these achievements yeah and
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you're wearing um your your New Zealand
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I know I that was not even like on
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purpose I literally just love this shirt
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it's it's great like um yeah you're
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wearing it with pride and if for anyone
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that's listening to this not watching it
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she's wearing the New Zealand team Paris
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2024 top so yeah you went to the
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Olympics to play doubles in the tennis
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with Lulu son
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um you you you guys knocked got knocked
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out in the first round yeah yeah is
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again this might be a dumb tennis
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question is that because you didn't have
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you're both fantastic players you both
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came in in red hot form from Wimbledon
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yeah Lulu in the singles you and the
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doubles is it because you didn't have on
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court chemistry uh I think we do have
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oncore chemistry doubles is so
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interesting because you really have to
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work at it together and like become a
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team and I think Olympics is Olympics is
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kind of interesting because you have all
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these teams that play together during
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the year and then Olympics you can
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obviously only play with someone from
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your country and so you have all these
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new teams trying to figure it out and
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they've got like not much experience
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together we I think it's a couple things
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I think being on Clay it's probably one
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of our worst surfaces and after
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Wimbledon being on grassp having that
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confidence um but I think we can win on
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Clay but yeah and we played oron palini
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and they ended up winning the gold medal
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um and they played all the time together
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they they were at wbj finals they have
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been playing together for probably two
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years now so they had that experience
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that we didn't have so I think on the
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day experience one and it was a bit I
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mean I don't want to say I never say you
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got a bad draw but we I would have loved
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to like have just one warm-up match
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before getting a chance to play them
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because they're so tough like Gabby and
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I played them at WTA finals we won like
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1210 or something in the third set so it
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was just like a couple things that
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didn't really go our way I mean we had
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we had a lot of chances and we just
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didn't convert but yeah I think it's a
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combination of a lot of things there's
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there's no shame in being knocked out of
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the tournament by someone that goes on
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to win a medle right no yeah yeah after
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that we were cheering for them the whole
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way so when they won Gold we were like
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oh perfect and how was your Olympic
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experience did you go to the opening
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ceremony were you were you staying in
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the The Village yeah yeah staying in the
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village went to the opening ceremony had
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an amazing experience everyone um on the
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New Zealand team was so kind so
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welcoming it really made me feel really
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much closer to the country and to you
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know to everyone there and I had I had
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an amazing experience the opening
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ceremonies I don't know if you've heard
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about it but it was epic like on the
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boats I I watched from um a TV viewing
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perspective incredible was it good
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insane the best Olympic opening ceremony
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I've ever seen why was it incredible
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being on the boat it looked miserable
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was raining yeah no but it like I don't
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know it brought like an aura and energy
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everyone was so happy everyone we were
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like I don't know dancing with music and
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everything and there was a lot of other
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countries on our boat so we were like
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getting to know people I don't know I
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had a great time honestly one of the top
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10 experiences of my life unreal and
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you've had so many cool
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experiences like my top
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10 but you're top 10 so did you did you
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become friends with any of the Kiwi
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athletes or did you connect with anyone
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yeah I connected with a few of them yeah
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no it was really and I went to see a
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couple of them compete um I went to
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watch who did I go to watch I went to
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watch I actually went to watch the rugby
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win the gold which was cool rugby seven
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oh the girls yeah yeah I've hit some of
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them on the podcast Michaela BL she was
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on the podcast recently she's awesome
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yeah I met her so that was awesome to
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like meet her in person um and watch
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them and they beat Canada which was kind
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of funny yeah yeah oh yeah cuz your um
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your Double's partner Gabby she was
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there as well representing Canada Canada
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yeah she was there playing with somebody
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else as well so yeah no I had an amazing
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Olympic experience I'm I'm definely um
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La 2028 is definitely a goal for me
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unreal do do do you do you and gab get
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jealous when you're playing with other
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people or no I don't think so I think
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we're just we understand Olympics is so
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different to everything else so yeah so
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you're going all the way back um your
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parents are your parents still alive
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yeah yeah yeah yeah what do they do now
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do they do they live in a boat or they
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live in a house they um they live in
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houses they're separated so they both
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live in houses no more boats no more
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boats just the Boating Adventures they
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must just like yeah driving each other
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crazy I said that I literally was like
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imagine being on with one person on a
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small sailboat going around the world
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like that would be crazy very
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adventurous I always I always tell them
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that they're hippies for doing that but
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like so cool but yeah no we we actually
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had when cuz I left New Zealand when I
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was almost five and then we had a
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sailboat which we took like weekend
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trips on um until I was probably like 11
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or 12 so Boats were like in my life for
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a while yeah I've done a few bit of
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research but you can probably fill in
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some of the blanks here so from what I
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can gather just like a young Canadian
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couple hiy energy as you said yeah um
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then they're on a boat they get pregnant
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with you so they're like oh we we got to
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so they come to New Zealand yeah and
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they put down sticks here and they and
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you're born here and then you have a
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couple of siblings yes exactly so my my
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parents they actually met AK kiwi I
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don't know I wanted I should have asked
00:12:18
her where they met her but they met AK
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kiwi who they really connected with and
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she was like oh well that'd be cool if
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you could like come see me and have your
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baby in New Zealand and they were like
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oh cool so then they came here and they
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did that and they felt in love
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immediately um I think we lived in the
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harbor for like a year on the boat and
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then bought a house um my dad got a job
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and then we're here for 5 years and then
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I have two younger sisters so we were
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all born here and they they kept the
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house I think until I was like 10 or 11
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they wanted to come back um we the
00:12:47
reason why we left is cuz my
00:12:49
grandparents got sick so they wanted to
00:12:50
be close to family that were like
00:12:52
outside Toronto so and then they were
00:12:54
planning on coming back but life happens
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and they never did what are you um it's
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such a cool story I think it says a lot
00:13:00
about lot about your parents cuz it's um
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it's it's a very very certain sort of
00:13:04
person that's going to do that right the
00:13:05
Open Seas in a boat with just one of the
00:13:07
Poo yeah I asked them all the time I
00:13:09
literally I'm like was there every time
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you thought you like were going to die
00:13:12
like with I mean I don't know Mother
00:13:14
Nature can do anything you're on this
00:13:15
small boat the boat was not big so yeah
00:13:18
they said there was a couple times yeah
00:13:19
and we're talking 30 years ago so there
00:13:21
was no styl link there were no s phones
00:13:23
no they can't like text their parents be
00:13:24
like hey we're in so and so like
00:13:26
everything's fine like they said that
00:13:28
they were like I don't even know doing
00:13:30
the radio I'm like I'm like addicted to
00:13:32
myone I don't know how they they did it
00:13:33
it's crazy does it make you an or of
00:13:36
them that they did that totally yeah no
00:13:37
I think it's honestly one of the coolest
00:13:39
things ever I honestly I I mean I'm very
00:13:42
adventurous I think I got that Gene from
00:13:44
them but if someone asked me to do that
00:13:45
I don't think I don't think I would
00:13:47
maybe but AB absolutely not no chance
00:13:51
right so what are you what are your
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Recollections of um of of if anything of
00:13:55
those years those early years in in New
00:13:57
Zealand yeah so I remember
00:13:59
we had a really long driveway in our
00:14:01
house like weird things and I remember
00:14:03
our neighbor I remember um I remember
00:14:06
our family friend Joselyn and her
00:14:09
parents that's the one that they met on
00:14:10
the on the boat a little bit but it's
00:14:13
hard when you're young you a lot of the
00:14:15
stuff you like just block it out and you
00:14:17
don't remember it but yeah well you're
00:14:19
so young and what what about tennis what
00:14:20
are your earliest memories or
00:14:22
Recollections of tenis oh in general oh
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gosh I don't even like because it it's
00:14:27
strange isn't it because it's like um
00:14:30
I'm guessing your parents weren't tennis
00:14:31
people um so they played but not like
00:14:34
high level like they played in like
00:14:35
inner club we call it like a league oh
00:14:37
yeah Club Tennis yeah exactly Club
00:14:39
Tennis so they did that when I was and I
00:14:42
think I probably picked up my first rack
00:14:44
when I was like six so it's like what
00:14:46
happened was in this small town that we
00:14:48
were going to school and living in um
00:14:49
outside Toronto called kaladan they had
00:14:52
me and my two sisters and I think they
00:14:54
were quite tired and it was like a free
00:14:55
tennis for kids like on Wednesday nights
00:14:57
and so they wanted a break so they put
00:14:59
us all in that and uh it stuck for me
00:15:02
and my other two sisters absolutely
00:15:03
hated it I don't know that's how I got
00:15:05
into it we were you naturally s good I
00:15:09
think so I think yeah I think I think
00:15:11
that my two sisters were not good so
00:15:13
they were and I was better obviously I
00:15:14
was older but I think that yeah I think
00:15:16
I had some sort of natural ability and
00:15:19
then I think I was I'm very competitive
00:15:21
like so I I think I wanted to play
00:15:23
tournaments and stuff so I I went to
00:15:25
play a tournament and then that's where
00:15:26
my first coach um saw me play and was
00:15:30
like do you have a coach and I think my
00:15:32
dad was like no like she just plays for
00:15:33
fun and he was like oh my gosh like I
00:15:35
would love to work with her and like
00:15:37
that's how I got connected with him and
00:15:39
and yeah you must have got real good and
00:15:41
then in um
00:15:43
2019 what happened then you s have
00:15:45
retired hey you s have retired for yeah
00:15:47
kind of yeah so after University I
00:15:49
graduated in
00:15:50
2017 um I played for like two years and
00:15:54
then in the summer of
00:15:56
2019 um yeah I think that's kind of it
00:16:00
like a July maybe I don't know June or
00:16:02
July I was like okay enough I was just
00:16:04
really unhappy to be honest I wasn't I
00:16:06
just wasn't winning and I wasn't
00:16:09
enjoying my life and I wasn't enjoying
00:16:11
traveling I wasn't enjoying the grind I
00:16:12
wasn't really enjoying anything about it
00:16:13
and I was being really hard on myself so
00:16:14
I was like okay I'm done like I don't
00:16:16
want to play tennis anymore and during
00:16:18
University I didn't know if I wanted to
00:16:19
play pro I did going into it and then I
00:16:21
really loved being University being on a
00:16:23
team um that was some of the best times
00:16:26
of my life and I think you know it's
00:16:28
such an individual sport I wasn't sure
00:16:30
if I wanted to play pro and then my
00:16:32
senior year when I um started to play
00:16:34
for New Zealand I definitely knew I
00:16:35
wanted to play pro and then it I don't
00:16:37
know things just didn't fall into place
00:16:38
it's really it's hard it's a really hard
00:16:40
life like you're living like week by
00:16:42
week if you don't have any money like
00:16:43
you can't you know travel it's like such
00:16:46
an international sport so you really
00:16:47
have to find like joy and like the grind
00:16:50
and I wasn't enjoying it at all so yeah
00:16:52
I quit and uh I moved 3 hours outside of
00:16:55
Toronto to my Cottage it's like where we
00:16:57
grew up going to um or batch you'd call
00:17:00
it yeah we do we do it's a batch or
00:17:03
actually the South Islanders and like
00:17:05
Canterbury denen way a crib yeah yeah so
00:17:08
um which sounds wh is Gangster though
00:17:10
yeah it does bat that's funny um and
00:17:12
then yeah I lived there for like I think
00:17:14
I quit for like six or eight months or
00:17:16
something like that and yeah so you were
00:17:18
say 23 24 at the
00:17:20
time yeah 24 I think 24 25 yeah is it's
00:17:24
um it's alarming to think about like
00:17:27
what you've accomplished since then and
00:17:29
you all this incredible stuff that
00:17:31
you've done may not have happened had
00:17:33
you not decided to come back no so yeah
00:17:36
what did you doing that time dog sitting
00:17:38
yes I did dog I so I started dog sitting
00:17:40
because I I wanted to just get a job and
00:17:42
do something and then I was uh working
00:17:44
at a tanning salon which is what the
00:17:47
[ __ ] it's so Random It's So Random I
00:17:49
know but I wanted to be a barista I
00:17:51
wanted to make coffees but there's no
00:17:53
like cafes in that little town so I just
00:17:55
started handing out my resume to like
00:17:57
clothing stores tanning Sal and the lady
00:17:59
that ran it was I mean she was so kind
00:18:01
she was like wait why do you want to
00:18:02
work here and I was like oh I'm just
00:18:03
like looking for a part-time job and she
00:18:06
was like okay like you can start
00:18:07
literally tomorrow so she trained me and
00:18:09
then I did that three days a week and
00:18:11
loved it it was like all these seniors
00:18:13
it's a huge senior community and they
00:18:15
would they've been tanning for like 50
00:18:16
years so I clean the beds they'd go in
00:18:18
they'd tell me about their children
00:18:20
their grandchildren their lives I like
00:18:21
made a bunch of friends that were like a
00:18:23
lot older than me and like I honestly
00:18:25
loved it and you know it really like
00:18:28
makes you
00:18:29
I was obviously working for like minimum
00:18:30
wage doing absolutely like you know I
00:18:34
really understand the value of a dollar
00:18:35
after that I was like you know it was
00:18:37
but it was awesome I loved it but I did
00:18:39
miss tennis eventually so was it um
00:18:42
beads or like a spray ttin beds right
00:18:44
yeah any funny stories from that
00:18:47
period nothing that stands out no
00:18:50
nothing that really stands out I mean
00:18:52
the people like they would be really
00:18:53
chatty and like telling me all about
00:18:55
their lives I could you know I I could
00:18:57
probably I'm not throwing any them under
00:18:59
the bus um yeah it's funny because you
00:19:01
know on the one hand you loved it but on
00:19:03
the second hand you said it made you
00:19:04
appreciate the value of the dollar so
00:19:05
it's not like it's not like you had got
00:19:07
being a normal person then you were like
00:19:09
[ __ ] that I'm so lucky with this tennis
00:19:11
gift yeah you could have easily stayed
00:19:13
doing that totally yeah and I think you
00:19:16
know I think the ultimately why I wanted
00:19:18
to play tennis again it wasn't because I
00:19:20
you know thought that I could be number
00:19:22
one in the world honestly never in a
00:19:23
million years I was more just I didn't
00:19:26
feel like I'd given um everything I had
00:19:28
to the the sport and I didn't want to go
00:19:30
like tennis had been my whole life and I
00:19:31
didn't want to go out in that way with
00:19:33
such like a sour taste in my mouth and I
00:19:34
was like so unhappy at the end and I was
00:19:36
like okay I'm going to change my mindset
00:19:38
I'm going to change a lot of things uh
00:19:40
about the way that I'm you know on the
00:19:42
grind or whatever and uh yeah I came
00:19:45
back but then Co happened so I literally
00:19:47
came back like I don't know January
00:19:49
2020 yeah and then Co happened so then
00:19:52
it was another massive break and I was
00:19:55
like wow I really quit at the worst
00:19:56
possible time because by the time I
00:19:58
played again it almost been like a year
00:20:00
with like random matches in between it
00:20:01
was tough yeah so so that um yeah I'm
00:20:06
sorry I'm just fixating on this um the
00:20:08
tenning salon thing so how how long was
00:20:10
it that you like didn't pick up a record
00:20:11
didn't have anything to do with tennis
00:20:14
like 3 months two months or probably
00:20:15
five five months yeah I would say F four
00:20:18
or five months yeah is is wet rust a
00:20:21
thing is that a totally yeah yeah yeah
00:20:24
Noah thing and it depends on the player
00:20:25
too sometimes you kind of go back to
00:20:27
basics and you're fine um I think I'm
00:20:29
more like that like I think kind of go
00:20:31
back to you know the natural I'm a
00:20:33
pretty natural player so I think it kind
00:20:35
comes back quickly but I just I honestly
00:20:37
my sister I was with my sister and she's
00:20:39
like well do you want me to go feed you
00:20:40
some balls like she doesn't play tennis
00:20:41
she's like you can see how it feels like
00:20:42
we'll go with the like little you know
00:20:44
the public courts and so we did it and
00:20:46
we had a we had a really fun time and I
00:20:48
was like okay well maybe it's not like
00:20:49
the worst thing in the world and what
00:20:52
what you talked about changing your
00:20:53
mindset before what like yeah how did
00:20:55
you make that change did you have like a
00:20:56
psychologist or anything or did you read
00:20:58
some books oh yeah many psychologists
00:21:00
yes
00:21:02
um name
00:21:04
basis um I think Mo mostly it's just
00:21:08
what I how I describe tennis is you have
00:21:10
to get really good at losing and then
00:21:12
that's how you don't lose as much
00:21:14
anymore and so when I was losing week
00:21:16
after week because you you lose every
00:21:18
single week unless you win the
00:21:19
tournament everybody every single person
00:21:20
there's one winner and there's 99% of
00:21:22
the losers well losers but and you kind
00:21:25
of have to deal with that in a way and
00:21:27
just keep going and like kind of just
00:21:28
you just have to have a really short
00:21:30
memory because if you dwell on all the
00:21:32
losses we'd be dwelling all the time
00:21:34
like it's just like seriously depressing
00:21:36
so I was just less hard on myself I
00:21:38
think and I think yeah I just tried to
00:21:41
enjoy like the little things and enjoy
00:21:43
the process that sounds like so cliche
00:21:46
but I mean that's really what I did so
00:21:48
if if you lose now
00:21:51
um I mean yeah like the Olympics that's
00:21:53
a bad example because you lost to a very
00:21:55
very good um opponent but if if you lose
00:21:59
a match where in a tournament where you
00:22:00
know you should have won yeah like how
00:22:02
do you how do you pack that and move
00:22:04
on I think try and find the positives in
00:22:07
it um and I think realize I mean it's
00:22:10
hard when you're now we're ranked so
00:22:12
high we're basically the number one SE
00:22:14
to every tournament so technically we
00:22:16
should win every single tournament we
00:22:18
play that's never in a million years
00:22:19
going to happen so you kind of got to
00:22:21
find the the positives in it and have a
00:22:24
good team around us to like remind us of
00:22:25
what we were doing good and we're we're
00:22:27
really into the you know learning and
00:22:29
growing and just growing as a team and
00:22:32
yeah just honestly enjoying the process
00:22:34
because that's how we have our most
00:22:35
success we're never honestly we don't
00:22:36
even talk about winning we just talk
00:22:38
about how we're going to play that day
00:22:41
and how we're going to practice that day
00:22:43
and we're very like trying not to focus
00:22:45
on the future at all because that just
00:22:47
is it gives anxiety yeah it's funny the
00:22:49
way you frame it like it's probably
00:22:50
similar to golf in a lot of ways like
00:22:52
you look at TIG Woods I think his wi
00:22:54
record is something like 18% or
00:22:55
something he's the best ever right I
00:22:58
think Federer I don't know what
00:22:59
Federer's record is but it's not high at
00:23:02
all it's like and that's what that's why
00:23:03
tennis is so wild to me is like all
00:23:05
other sports is they have to win all the
00:23:07
time like we don't have to to be
00:23:08
successful but if you win all the time
00:23:10
it's a bonus yeah and you you hear about
00:23:12
some player that you know you've never
00:23:14
heard of and it's like oh he want beat
00:23:15
Roger feder in a match and it's like for
00:23:17
for this player it's his career
00:23:19
highlight life highlight yeah but it's
00:23:21
like about consistency that's what
00:23:23
tennis is a lot about consistency yeah
00:23:25
okay so there was that break in 2019 um
00:23:28
we'll call it the tanning
00:23:29
era then there was Co um then 2023 that
00:23:33
was a surreal year right that was um
00:23:36
what happened in 2023 so you went to Wim
00:23:39
in yeah
00:23:40
[Music]
00:23:41
um you you had like a
00:23:44
breakdown oh 20 side breakdown oh yeah
00:23:47
oh yeah you read the article yeah yeah
00:23:50
um well us through that how many well
00:23:52
there's a lot of breakdowns I feel like
00:23:54
if you talk to any tennis players it's
00:23:55
honestly never ending um yeah so that
00:23:58
was a big one so in 20 at the end of
00:24:00
2020 I met um my now coach one of my now
00:24:05
coaches Bruce Lipa he's an American and
00:24:08
he kind of started working with me on
00:24:09
like the mental stuff and honestly
00:24:11
changed a lot of tennis things for me as
00:24:13
well tactically and then kind of drifted
00:24:16
apart and then I started working with
00:24:17
him officially in what like
00:24:19
2022 probably and then
00:24:22
20123 I in 2022 and 2023 I was ranked
00:24:25
like 30 something in the world and I had
00:24:27
um a pretty set partner Alicia rosolska
00:24:29
she's from Poland and we were doing well
00:24:31
but then you we broke up in like I think
00:24:34
January or February of 2023 um just
00:24:36
different goals we weren't really having
00:24:38
the results we wanted and then I started
00:24:41
playing with another player Alexa gachi
00:24:43
he's one of my best friends and we had
00:24:45
done well years ago but we did not do
00:24:47
very well that time I think um you know
00:24:50
combination of things our game styles
00:24:51
weren't working it was hard with one of
00:24:53
your friends all that stuff so yeah then
00:24:57
I think we we end did our partnership
00:24:59
before Wimbledon and then at Wimbledon
00:25:01
we had a lot of match points in that
00:25:03
match and that was just like a I don't
00:25:05
know I guess a breaking point we hadn't
00:25:07
won for like four months honestly we I
00:25:08
don't think we won won a match well we
00:25:10
won one I don't know it was a rough time
00:25:13
and then
00:25:14
um yeah that wimon match was really
00:25:17
tough I think I just I felt like I was
00:25:18
working really hard and I had been for
00:25:19
the last two years um and obviously
00:25:22
before that but like extra hard I felt
00:25:24
like I was playing well but I felt like
00:25:25
I just couldn't win a match and I was
00:25:26
like oh it it was better when I was like
00:25:28
not working hard like maybe I should
00:25:30
like change my what I'm doing and yeah
00:25:33
it's so it's such an interesting sport
00:25:35
but yeah I did there was a lot of crying
00:25:36
after that match I was oh the the
00:25:39
article that I read that and is was that
00:25:40
little click bity was it not not
00:25:42
necessarily as bad as what it sounds no
00:25:44
it was I mean it was bad like a rock
00:25:45
bottom bed I mean I I don't know yeah I
00:25:49
don't know it was just like I hadn't won
00:25:50
in four months and like it's not ideal
00:25:53
for my my job why do you why do you keep
00:25:56
going then why at that point why don't
00:25:58
you go back to the tanning salon and see
00:26:01
see if the position's still open
00:26:03
honestly fair enough question um I'd
00:26:07
asked Gabby to play so then when you
00:26:08
break up with a partnership in doubles
00:26:10
then you kind of look for another
00:26:12
partnership and Gabby had been someone
00:26:14
that I'd known for a while not well but
00:26:15
she'd been one of the people that I'd
00:26:17
watched and I you know I ret texted her
00:26:19
and I was like hey I'm looking for a
00:26:20
partner and I was ranked a lot lower
00:26:21
than she was so this is Gabby de braski
00:26:24
yes who's um like a couple hundred
00:26:25
meters away to nearb around the corner
00:26:27
right now at this point you're um your
00:26:31
are you damaged goods like you haven't
00:26:32
won in four months I don't know I think
00:26:35
yeah I don't know what was your ranking
00:26:37
and what was
00:26:38
her um I was probably like 35 she was
00:26:42
probably like 15 or 20 okay but then so
00:26:46
you must have been on who radar like she
00:26:48
must have known that you were a good
00:26:49
doubles player yeah i' played against
00:26:50
her okay yeah played against her we all
00:26:53
know each other everyone basically in
00:26:54
the top 100 or top 50 we all know each
00:26:56
other um and we've seen each other play
00:26:57
and I I think she had uh ended her
00:26:59
partnership at French Open and so then I
00:27:01
asked her and was like hey you just kind
00:27:03
of like put it you literally just text
00:27:04
them and you're like hey are you
00:27:06
interested it's literally like dating
00:27:08
it's like tinda no literally no
00:27:10
literally it is and so she was like okay
00:27:13
like let's talk after wimbl and then we
00:27:15
uh you know we decided that we we had a
00:27:17
FaceTime call and we had a lot of the
00:27:20
same go goals we were looking for in a
00:27:22
partner we were kind of both looking for
00:27:24
I don't know looking for each other I
00:27:26
want to say and um yeah so then we
00:27:28
started playing together in Montreal was
00:27:31
our first week Montreal 2023 so it was
00:27:33
like three weeks before US Open so so
00:27:35
that um FaceTime call like how how does
00:27:38
who's sort of leading it she was leading
00:27:40
it yeah so you sort of selling yourself
00:27:42
to her well we're both selling ourselves
00:27:45
I would say yeah I think I was selling
00:27:47
myself a little bit more because it's
00:27:48
all about rankings you need to combine
00:27:50
rankings to get into tournaments and uh
00:27:53
yeah so I'll take the I always say that
00:27:55
it was my idea to for us to play
00:27:56
together because I like sent the
00:27:57
original text but then she like you know
00:28:00
was like let's FaceTime and talk about
00:28:01
our goals and I was like oh that shows
00:28:02
like a lot of leadership and something
00:28:04
I'm looking for and when we were
00:28:05
chatting we you know connected and we
00:28:07
thought that we could be good together
00:28:08
and then we'll see and then it ended up
00:28:10
we had like weird connections like the
00:28:11
coach she had just started working with
00:28:13
I had been to his Academy like three
00:28:14
years prior so that was really
00:28:16
convenient Dan Kieran um and so now now
00:28:20
we're with him fulltime so yeah so it
00:28:22
was yeah that was like three weeks I
00:28:23
think it was our yeah three weeks before
00:28:25
US Open was our first tournament and and
00:28:28
oh and you won that one the US Open yeah
00:28:31
you won the [ __ ] US Open it's crazy
00:28:34
so yeah so that new partnership how do
00:28:36
you how do you navigate that in terms of
00:28:38
um I don't know like either on court or
00:28:41
on court off Court conflict um blame of
00:28:44
if you know if she doesn't play as well
00:28:46
as you did or vice versa like how do you
00:28:49
how do you navigate that stuff early on
00:28:50
yeah I think it's really hard I think
00:28:52
it's kind of like you're trying to
00:28:54
show show them your best self at the
00:28:57
beginning for sure but then it's like
00:28:59
honestly it's literally like dating
00:29:01
you're like in the honeymoon phase and
00:29:03
you're trying to show them you're their
00:29:04
s and then like as [ __ ] happens then
00:29:07
your like demons are coming out and
00:29:08
they're like learning about the real you
00:29:10
I I'm telling you it's like so crazy
00:29:11
people don't understand like that's what
00:29:13
it's like but it really is like that but
00:29:15
we just had you know I think we we were
00:29:17
playing well in Montreal and that was
00:29:19
the first match I'd won in a long time
00:29:20
and i' I opened up to Gabby and I said
00:29:22
I'm so glad we just won that match we
00:29:24
won it like 108 or something really
00:29:26
close I haven't won a match like you
00:29:28
know 4 months and she was like oh my
00:29:30
gosh she must have been like so nervous
00:29:32
and I was like I was [ __ ] myself
00:29:34
literally
00:29:35
so so so then like that was like a
00:29:38
connection and you know um yeah then we
00:29:41
played two more weeks together and then
00:29:43
the week before US Open I think we had
00:29:45
like we had some good wins so we could
00:29:47
we could see that we had potential but
00:29:48
then we had a really tough tough match
00:29:51
tough loss where we were not butting
00:29:53
heads but I think we both just were like
00:29:55
oh like you know this is real like our
00:29:58
personalities were coming out because
00:29:59
the thing with doubles is it's like
00:30:01
you're you're trying to win you're but
00:30:03
you're under so much stress and so like
00:30:05
things are going to come out that you
00:30:06
just kind of can't take personally
00:30:08
honestly um but we're very good at
00:30:10
having I always say that we're really
00:30:12
good at having tough conversations Gabby
00:30:13
and I if we don't like something we're
00:30:15
not afraid to say it to each other if we
00:30:17
like something we'll tell each other we
00:30:19
kind of have that open space all the
00:30:20
time so we had like a big convo right
00:30:22
before US Open we were like hey you know
00:30:24
this is our non-negotiables this is what
00:30:25
we want from each other this is what
00:30:27
we're looking for and uh I guess that
00:30:31
conversation really worked I don't know
00:30:33
oh it's so healthy but it's um not every
00:30:36
relationship is going to get to that
00:30:37
point um can you remember your first
00:30:39
like blowout or
00:30:40
argument first argument yeah like
00:30:43
blowout or you know well we don't we
00:30:44
don't it's not like a an blowout
00:30:46
argument it's just like it's just like
00:30:49
on the court like she's probably like no
00:30:52
I honestly can't she we now know that
00:30:54
like if something happens in the court
00:30:55
we're honestly we laugh about it after
00:30:57
and we kind of have that um I don't
00:31:00
remember I don't we don't we don't fight
00:31:02
at per se we're just like hey like why
00:31:05
did you say this or something like that
00:31:06
but yeah no I don't remember I don't I
00:31:08
suppose you you kind of hold a grudge
00:31:10
right you just need to get it out ABS on
00:31:12
and as far as like you know you're like
00:31:13
saying with Partnerships and blaming and
00:31:15
stuff I think if you're blaming your
00:31:16
partner then it's over do you know what
00:31:18
I mean like it's over so like we're very
00:31:20
like win as a team lose as a team
00:31:23
camaraderie like all that stuff go I'm
00:31:25
I'm I've got such um people pleasing
00:31:27
tenen sees it like if it was me if I
00:31:29
double f it I'd be like apologizing
00:31:31
profusely to my part that's funny
00:31:33
because Gabby if Gabby were here right
00:31:35
now she would literally be like oh yeah
00:31:36
you get mad when I apologize too much
00:31:39
because she'll like literally do
00:31:41
something or like whatever I guess
00:31:43
she'll hit what she thinks it's a bad
00:31:44
shot and she's like I'm sorry I'm sorry
00:31:45
and I'm like Gabby just don't apologize
00:31:47
I know you're out here trying she's like
00:31:49
sometimes I have to say sorry and like
00:31:50
it makes me feel better I'm like oh I
00:31:51
never thought of that like I'm just
00:31:52
thinking of myself cuz at the end of the
00:31:55
day we're it is an individual sport
00:31:56
that's what's so cool about doubles is
00:31:58
like we've played by ourselves our whole
00:31:59
lives and only the last like 5 years was
00:32:01
like playing with a partner and so
00:32:03
that's something that we're always like
00:32:05
kind of selfish yeah you what makes you
00:32:07
so good at at doubles like tennis is
00:32:09
tennis but there's singles and there's
00:32:11
doubles and they're very different
00:32:12
disciplines um yeah I don't know it
00:32:15
always came more natural to me Juniors I
00:32:17
was better at doubles I was still a very
00:32:19
very good singles player um and in
00:32:21
college I was you know good at both but
00:32:24
better at doubles you know W two NCAA
00:32:26
and doubles so it was all it just came
00:32:28
naturally to me I think celebrating with
00:32:31
somebody else is really fun I don't
00:32:32
really like celebrating by myself so I
00:32:34
always like that aspect and I like
00:32:36
trying to figure out you know doubles is
00:32:37
kind of like a puzzle like you're on the
00:32:39
court and you're trying to figure out
00:32:41
how to beat the other person or the
00:32:43
other team and you're doing with
00:32:44
somebody else I really like that aspect
00:32:45
so yeah I don't know I think I think I
00:32:48
also now I bring kind of like a like a
00:32:50
lighter energy I try to make everything
00:32:52
kind of fun um I try to make Gabby smile
00:32:55
make me smile when I can when I'm not
00:32:57
like angry on the court but yeah hey how
00:33:00
do you do that because there was a
00:33:01
tournament and we're jumping around a
00:33:03
bit here but the um the tournament in um
00:33:04
Saudi Arabia that you won just towards
00:33:07
the end of 2024 um I saw some clips on
00:33:09
YouTube looks like you guys are laughing
00:33:11
or oh yeah laughing or cracking up
00:33:13
during the game yeah like during the
00:33:14
game yeah yeah it's probably like the
00:33:16
match point Gabby would like had a huge
00:33:18
smile on her face and we still to this
00:33:19
day don't know if she was thinking
00:33:21
something that was funny or if I said
00:33:22
something that was funny but we honestly
00:33:24
just had the best time in Saudi Arabia
00:33:26
we had our uh one of our is Dan there
00:33:28
and then my sister was there so that was
00:33:30
awesome and we were having like dance
00:33:31
parties before every single match and we
00:33:33
were just really trying to keep it like
00:33:35
light like I was kind of injured so we
00:33:38
were just trying to like have a good
00:33:39
time and yeah I think I think it's
00:33:41
important I think everyone takes
00:33:43
themselves too seriously honestly in in
00:33:45
in tennis for sure I think in in life
00:33:48
but so we just try to I don't know I
00:33:51
think that I I deal with you know if I'm
00:33:54
uncomfortable I'll make a joke so that's
00:33:55
just kind of how I deal with things
00:33:57
which you know yeah yeah you yeah you
00:34:01
this will lead us nicely to the 2023 uh
00:34:03
Us open because you say yeah people take
00:34:05
themselves so seriously in tennis and in
00:34:06
life but you can see why like you won
00:34:08
$700,000 prize money like the the stakes
00:34:11
are the stakes are high and and it's the
00:34:13
title as well and it's just a it's a
00:34:15
whole lot of you know it's a whole lot
00:34:17
of preure um but you what are your
00:34:19
Reflections on that the the the 2023 US
00:34:22
Open um yeah it was I think to win a
00:34:26
slam everything kind of has to to go
00:34:28
your way like so many matches in a row
00:34:31
it's two weeks long it's really long by
00:34:33
the end of it you're exhausted you know
00:34:35
it's just yeah I don't I I honestly
00:34:37
don't know I think I think that we had a
00:34:41
couple good wins at the beginning and we
00:34:42
knew that we could beat whoever and then
00:34:44
in the quarters we had to you know come
00:34:46
from behind win we were down 72 in the
00:34:48
10-point tiebreaker and we were just
00:34:50
like thought we were down and out and
00:34:51
then somehow we managed to pull that out
00:34:53
and it was um against an American and a
00:34:56
Canadian so the crowd was really against
00:34:59
us and I think that that it literally
00:35:02
was like one of the loudest stadiums
00:35:04
I've ever played on in my life I think
00:35:06
to this day probably the loudest and I
00:35:07
think getting through that together felt
00:35:10
like so traumatic that match I think
00:35:13
that we kind of felt like we could do
00:35:14
anything after that and we just tried to
00:35:15
ride the wave and then we rode the wave
00:35:17
until yeah I don't know we won a grand
00:35:20
slave it was it was crazy I think I was
00:35:23
I was I was ranked like 50 or 60 or
00:35:25
something at that point cuz I dropped a
00:35:27
lot and um to do that out of nowhere was
00:35:30
pretty wild yeah yeah yeah and nerves
00:35:34
before that final oh my gosh so you seem
00:35:37
to qu it flushing meow US Open what the
00:35:40
hell no it was wild I don't I don't even
00:35:42
know I vomiting I don't vomit when I'm
00:35:44
nervous I just like kind of stay quiet
00:35:46
and normally I can like never shut up so
00:35:48
I think
00:35:49
that um I don't know why I honestly
00:35:53
don't remember I just was thinking you
00:35:54
know I said to Gabby before the match I
00:35:57
said hey this is not our which I don't
00:35:59
know why I had the brain power to think
00:36:01
of this like I'm I was just like hey
00:36:03
this is not our last Grand slame Final
00:36:05
together like we'll be in plenty more so
00:36:07
let's not stress about it let's just
00:36:09
play and I don't I don't know why I said
00:36:11
that was
00:36:12
smart so smart and then um yeah $700,000
00:36:17
prize money yeah we split that we split
00:36:19
that okay I so that's and it was taxed
00:36:21
okay you know I want to know about that
00:36:23
because that's a lot of priz man for you
00:36:24
at that point it's more than what you'd
00:36:25
won for years and years and years I
00:36:27
think my entire career right at time I I
00:36:30
could be wrong oh maybe I'm wrong I'm
00:36:32
wrong I think I'm wrong but close but
00:36:33
other sports people have head on like
00:36:34
Joseph par the boxer these um the these
00:36:37
sums are eye ordering but they're never
00:36:39
when you drill down to it it's never as
00:36:40
impressive as what as what it seems in
00:36:42
terms of like you said splitting it in
00:36:44
half taxing it what else you got
00:36:46
trainers to pay for to yeah yeah no our
00:36:50
coaches trainers all like all those
00:36:52
expenses I mean obviously we're playing
00:36:54
paying for our own flights all that
00:36:55
stuff we're paying for their hotels all
00:36:57
the stuff like we have teams and it's so
00:36:59
interesting cuz like obviously you know
00:37:01
my parents put a ton of money into me
00:37:04
going to tennis tennis is a very
00:37:05
expensive Sport and you know then I put
00:37:08
a ton of money into it after going to
00:37:09
University I was like you know living
00:37:11
week to week and in the red for like
00:37:13
years so and now now obviously yeah I'm
00:37:17
not in the red so that's good so at the
00:37:19
end like in the at the end of my right
00:37:21
not at the end I'm not in the end of my
00:37:22
career and the peak of my career tennis
00:37:24
is so interesting cuz it's like really
00:37:26
good for like the top player and then
00:37:27
for the bottom it's like such a grind
00:37:29
but yeah I guess it's nice to rap the
00:37:32
rewards of it I guess like I mentioned
00:37:34
before your your friend Coco golf like
00:37:35
making something like 30 million a year
00:37:38
yeah for every Coco golf there's
00:37:39
probably like 500 other players just you
00:37:41
know grinding it out an economy class
00:37:43
yeah exactly um okay yes so that's the
00:37:46
US Open 2023 um so I mean the title the
00:37:50
money aside it's the title that counts
00:37:52
right like that means everything but I
00:37:53
suppose the money buys you a bit of
00:37:55
relief totally a bit of comfort for a
00:37:57
while yeah um and then after that uh
00:38:01
Gabby's breast cancer Journey Begins and
00:38:04
on New Year's Eve 2024 she she did like
00:38:07
a really really powerful um Instagram
00:38:10
post titled the Unseen of 2024 yeah um
00:38:14
and she explained like her decision to
00:38:16
you come public with it now she was sort
00:38:17
of at the TA in remission at the tail
00:38:19
end so when when did when did you first
00:38:21
hear about this oh in April she told me
00:38:24
right away when she um well she told me
00:38:26
before it happened you know she had the
00:38:29
lump and was getting it biopsied and you
00:38:31
know immediately I I was like okay
00:38:34
well honestly immediately I was like I'm
00:38:37
sure it's nothing you know what I mean
00:38:38
and then obviously it wasn't nothing and
00:38:40
then yeah it was really scary it was
00:38:42
heavy heavy super heavy um I think at
00:38:45
that time I didn't even really think
00:38:46
about my tennis I just thought about you
00:38:48
know trying to support her in any way
00:38:49
that I could and be her friend so yeah
00:38:51
it was really really
00:38:53
heavy yeah yeah she's explained it very
00:38:57
well on this Instagram post but it's
00:38:58
like um yeah you're so deeply entrenched
00:39:00
and involved in it as well you know yeah
00:39:02
yeah as like like a friend but also like
00:39:05
a a teammate as well totally yeah and um
00:39:07
our whole coaching we were all trying to
00:39:09
figure it out yeah yeah and um yeah it's
00:39:12
I think it's it's really big of you to
00:39:14
to say that that you didn't even think
00:39:15
about the tennis because I mean you are
00:39:17
a highly competitive person and you guys
00:39:19
were just like hting your straps yeah no
00:39:22
we were we'd we'd started the year
00:39:24
really strong I think um
00:39:27
yeah we had we had really started the
00:39:29
year strong and we had never played a
00:39:30
match on Clay together so that was when
00:39:32
the clay season was about to start um it
00:39:36
was like the week after my birthday I
00:39:37
think and um we were supposed to fly to
00:39:40
Madrid in like four or five days and she
00:39:43
you know she told us and I was just like
00:39:46
yeah it's so crazy I yeah I I called my
00:39:50
sisters immediately I was like
00:39:51
distraught you know it's really hard cuz
00:39:54
I don't I'm 29 I don't know anyone you
00:39:56
know my grandparents had cancer at the
00:39:58
end of their lives but I I didn't know
00:40:00
anyone close to me that had ever you
00:40:02
know in a young woman she's what 31
00:40:04
about to be 32 um scary just puts things
00:40:08
into perspective for sure so yeah then I
00:40:12
talked to you know our team eventually
00:40:15
when she she just had to wait for a lot
00:40:17
of stuff and so she was like immediately
00:40:19
like okay well you know I just have to
00:40:22
wait to figure out what I'm going to do
00:40:23
and I I said okay well I'm obviously I
00:40:27
can't just like stop my job I have to
00:40:30
then I started looking for other
00:40:30
partners for the next few tournaments
00:40:33
until she found out what her plan was
00:40:35
basically so yeah that must that must
00:40:38
have sucked for her like sitting at home
00:40:40
getting treatment and you're off with
00:40:41
Coco golf no it's horrible yeah no
00:40:44
seriously there was a I think honestly
00:40:46
the tennis part I did I said this I've
00:40:48
said this a lot of times now I like I
00:40:50
tennis didn't even cross my mind at that
00:40:52
moment until I was like my coach was
00:40:54
like okay well you should probably start
00:40:55
looking for a partner for these big
00:40:56
tournaments know Madrid Rome French Open
00:40:58
when I knew that she couldn't play and I
00:41:00
didn't know when she was going to be
00:41:01
back so ultimately she wasn't out for
00:41:03
that long which um I mean was great
00:41:06
obviously but yeah lucky yeah and the
00:41:09
tournaments that you did play during
00:41:10
that time she was doing them like um you
00:41:13
know just after chemotherapy treatment
00:41:15
and so she didn't get chemo she got
00:41:17
radiation R yeah she no that's okay she
00:41:20
she did lumpectomy and she had to go to
00:41:22
do the lumpectomy sometimes they have to
00:41:23
go in twice to do it so she did that and
00:41:25
then um had to do the rehab process for
00:41:28
that and she so she and she really
00:41:30
wanted to play Wimbledon and she wanted
00:41:31
to play Olympics because it was
00:41:32
obviously an Olympic year and for her
00:41:34
that's a massive deal um and so then she
00:41:38
postponed I think her radiation I don't
00:41:40
want to speak for her but I think she
00:41:41
postponed her radiation to go between um
00:41:44
Toronto the tournament we play and US
00:41:46
Open so she did her radiation the week
00:41:48
before we played U two weeks before we
00:41:50
played US Open which is wild that's so
00:41:53
badass yeah I know isn't it no it's
00:41:55
really crazy and then yeah and and then
00:41:57
yeah so since she's I think been six
00:42:00
months in remission so now she'll just
00:42:01
have to scan a lot and yeah keep up with
00:42:03
it but and did you know that that
00:42:05
Instagram post was going live on New
00:42:07
Year's Eve um yeah she she had talked
00:42:10
about it a couple times like in months
00:42:11
leading up like you know wanting to tell
00:42:14
I was just completely hands off I was
00:42:16
like you do you girly I'm I'm with you
00:42:18
no matter what if you want to tell
00:42:19
people great if you don't want to tell
00:42:21
people I'm not telling people so um but
00:42:25
I think the reason why she came public
00:42:27
is you know to bring awareness and to
00:42:29
tell her story and it is like incredibly
00:42:30
inspiring if you think about it like our
00:42:32
year 2024 we had a great year like in
00:42:35
our business very successful but if you
00:42:37
now look at what she was dealing with um
00:42:41
behind the scenes it makes it like
00:42:43
insane absolutely insane yeah yeah and
00:42:47
and um oh it is it's incredible like
00:42:50
it's it's just remarkable and I'm so I'm
00:42:52
so pleased that that it's a successful
00:42:54
outcome but um also I can't imagine how
00:42:56
challenging it is for you because it's
00:42:58
um it impacts you as well and it's it's
00:43:00
just not your story to tell or right
00:43:02
yeah no no it was yeah the only way I
00:43:04
can describe it is it was really heavy
00:43:06
um I'm really lucky that you know Gabby
00:43:09
and I we could talk about it obviously
00:43:12
and then our team around us so I talked
00:43:14
a lot to our coaches about it and
00:43:17
um like my best friend that's like not
00:43:20
involved in tennis at all was really
00:43:22
helpful because she's not in tennis and
00:43:23
like U my sister's that's probably I I
00:43:26
talked to to them a lot about it cuz
00:43:28
yeah it was yeah I the only word the
00:43:30
word I used to describe it is was really
00:43:32
heavy stuff but yeah it was hard to hard
00:43:35
to manage but I mean nothing's harder
00:43:36
than what she did so yeah so so by the
00:43:38
time won comes around Wednesday at July
00:43:41
yeah July so she's she's still un well
00:43:43
at that point yeah so she' done her
00:43:45
surgeries and she We we played for three
00:43:48
weeks before wimbl we played the entire
00:43:50
grass season we started in I think end
00:43:51
of June um play the so her first
00:43:53
tournament back we won in Nottingham
00:43:55
which was crazy and uh we had a good
00:43:59
grass season leading up to Wimbledon and
00:44:00
then made finals of Wimbledon and then
00:44:02
went like basically straight to Olympics
00:44:04
and then Toronto and it was like a
00:44:05
never- ending year last year was wild
00:44:07
yeah it's incredible um yeah let's just
00:44:09
um Zoom down on Wimbledon for a bit so
00:44:12
um yeah you guys made the final and and
00:44:14
got B you made the final of wimon yeah
00:44:16
that that final game is that on Center
00:44:18
Court yes [ __ ] what's that like well you
00:44:21
know what being on it is crazy but you
00:44:23
know what's even crazier is walking out
00:44:25
onto it because they have all these like
00:44:28
these like all the winners and like all
00:44:30
these like trop the trophies and it's
00:44:32
just like so iconic and like historical
00:44:34
and we had to we got got to do like a
00:44:36
walk around because we'd never played on
00:44:39
Center Court obviously like and so
00:44:41
before like a couple hours before the
00:44:43
match we got to like walk out and like
00:44:44
just kind of like put our eyes to the
00:44:46
court so that was a bit weird but yeah
00:44:48
no it was wild and oh I think I'm basing
00:44:51
this on um oh I don't know that Netflix
00:44:54
show I saw or Boris Beaker documentary
00:44:56
or something but the changing room is
00:44:58
all open so you're in there with your
00:44:59
opponents and the CH oh our changing
00:45:01
rooms yeah yeah yeah yeah our our locker
00:45:03
rooms are always like we're always with
00:45:05
like all of our opponents that's the
00:45:06
isn't that weird you know what it's
00:45:09
normal now because I don't even think
00:45:10
about it because every single week we're
00:45:11
with like all of our opponents in Saudi
00:45:13
we got personal locker rooms and that
00:45:15
was like a treat because it was like me
00:45:17
and Gabby and our team and that's it so
00:45:19
that was really nice but I don't even
00:45:20
think about it like we change we we
00:45:22
share locker rooms all the time which I
00:45:23
guess yeah in team sports it's not a
00:45:24
thing it's so weird like just just in
00:45:27
with your opponent before you go out for
00:45:28
battle yeah no exactly yeah we're just
00:45:30
like we literally like pass each other
00:45:32
like 400 times a day we're like hey
00:45:33
what's up by the way I've got I've got
00:45:35
goosebumps from hearing you talk about
00:45:37
um like Wimbledon Cent before that's
00:45:39
that is so cool yeah no that's
00:45:42
incredible and are you nervous when you
00:45:43
go out or you just like game face on how
00:45:45
are you feeling oh I'm nervous before
00:45:46
every time I play yeah I think the
00:45:48
nerves go away as the match starts you
00:45:50
know we start playing and
00:45:53
then yeah I don't know then you're like
00:45:55
so into it you're not like super nervous
00:45:57
but then like as a big Point comes like
00:46:00
then you'll get nervous again but yeah
00:46:02
you're definitely the worst is like
00:46:03
morning of where you're just like go
00:46:06
yeah tough CU what what time of the day
00:46:08
was the
00:46:09
game uh I actually don't I don't
00:46:11
remember like afternoon maybe so you
00:46:14
wake up and you're just like waiting
00:46:15
around all day yeah you try to like you
00:46:17
know I try to shut obviously I do all my
00:46:19
like visualization and all this stuff
00:46:20
like I try to shut my brain off and give
00:46:22
it a break from talk like thinking about
00:46:23
the match cuz if you think about it for
00:46:24
5 hours leading up you're going to be
00:46:26
tired by the time it starts but then how
00:46:27
do you not think about it it's the wimbl
00:46:29
final yeah that's true and are you when
00:46:32
you're on the court are you aware of
00:46:33
like there you know there breaks in
00:46:34
between games and sets and in between
00:46:36
points are you aware of anyone like high
00:46:39
profile that that's there like are you
00:46:40
aware that that good question Prince
00:46:43
Williams there or Ben Stellar or whoever
00:46:45
it happens to Tom Cruz oh my gosh you
00:46:47
know what I love celebrities but not
00:46:49
when I'm playing I I do see like I'll
00:46:52
check the Instagram like day of before
00:46:54
whatever and like obviously I'll try and
00:46:56
go like sometimes they're in the Players
00:46:57
Lounge and stuff like that but not in
00:46:59
the moment cuz that's too difficult I
00:47:02
think I mean who knows who knows if Kate
00:47:05
Middleton like showed up to the match
00:47:06
I'd probably freak out and and what for
00:47:09
making the finals um do you get any
00:47:11
perks or privileges for Life yeah so
00:47:13
we're in the final eight Club it's
00:47:15
called so um I actually don't really
00:47:17
know the perks of it but I think it's I
00:47:19
think we get to go in like a fancy
00:47:20
locker room for the rest of our time
00:47:22
playing Wimbledon and then I think for
00:47:24
the rest of my life I can go go to
00:47:27
Wimbledon with a guest and like have
00:47:29
like a badge I feel like you need to
00:47:31
look into this and just see what
00:47:33
privileges you're entitled I this is
00:47:35
something to worry about at the end of
00:47:36
your playing career exactly yeah right
00:47:38
now I don't need that cuz I like have
00:47:40
the badge you know what I mean and I
00:47:41
have the thing but like one day cuz now
00:47:43
I'm final a club I think in Australia us
00:47:47
and Wimbledon so I don't know if I have
00:47:49
like a little girl or little boy that I
00:47:51
could take that would be cool oh my God
00:47:53
Erin stop being so chill all this this
00:47:56
is a amazing that would be cool that is
00:47:58
so cool and did did you meet anyone cool
00:48:00
there like I've had um I've had Lulu
00:48:02
your friend Lulu on the podcast um she
00:48:04
got to meet Martina never toova and
00:48:06
Billy Jean King oh wow did you you meet
00:48:09
anyone at M wion I met Martina yeah
00:48:11
she's great super nice um who who were
00:48:14
your Idols growing up who were you
00:48:16
tennis Idols yeah I'm trying to trying
00:48:19
to think 29 so who would it have been
00:48:20
for you like Monica celis no no I really
00:48:23
like Mara hus I liked watching Martina
00:48:26
later like when I was like in college I
00:48:28
would watch her cuz she was such a
00:48:29
doubles like speci um I really liked
00:48:33
Anna Ivanovich she's a Serbian player
00:48:35
but there there's not like I didn't like
00:48:36
latch on to like one or two players to
00:48:38
be honest I kind of watched kind of
00:48:39
everything yeah I I did I um yeah I'm
00:48:43
trying to think I like Juan Juan Martin
00:48:46
del patro he's like an Argentinian
00:48:48
player I used to like him but yeah he's
00:48:49
got the coolest name as well he does
00:48:51
yeah yeah um and how's your mental
00:48:53
health been seems like tennis is a you
00:48:56
like a very much a mental game and um as
00:48:59
we talked about before when you're in
00:49:00
that losing streak um you know lots and
00:49:03
lots of lows that you have to contend
00:49:04
with and dust yourself off and get back
00:49:05
up again yeah how are you yeah I'm good
00:49:08
I think um I'm learning a lot I think
00:49:11
being yeah it's a tough sport You Know
00:49:13
It's a Grind I think you know now it's
00:49:15
really nice now I'm playing the biggest
00:49:17
tournaments and every week I have like a
00:49:18
set schedule you're the I have a set
00:49:20
schedule for the year I have a great
00:49:22
team around me and a really supportive
00:49:24
partner um you know sometimes my family
00:49:26
comes around to tournaments with me and
00:49:28
it's like a much different life than
00:49:29
like the grind I was on a couple years
00:49:31
ago but it's still you know there's
00:49:33
obviously still hard times and stuff
00:49:34
like that and like losing every week is
00:49:35
tough but I think I have a much better
00:49:37
perspective now and I'm just trying to
00:49:39
keep like learning about myself and
00:49:41
people around me and you know I think
00:49:43
that I'm kind of just I hope that I'm
00:49:46
just getting started in tennis and I
00:49:47
think that like I can keep going and
00:49:50
keep having the success and I'm really
00:49:52
really enjoying my life right now so I
00:49:54
hope I can uh continue yeah so you're 29
00:49:57
now does it feel like you're sort of at
00:49:58
the Apex of your career like you it does
00:50:01
yeah so I'm turning 30 in April and uh
00:50:04
yeah I kind of feel like I'm at the peak
00:50:05
like I feel like I'm I'm you know have a
00:50:07
lot of good years playing years left in
00:50:09
me and so I hope that I can do that you
00:50:11
know knock on wood I'm not I'm doing a
00:50:13
little extra like rehab in the gym now
00:50:15
dealing with this injury I'm like
00:50:17
getting older so yeah I'm trying to
00:50:19
manage that kind of stuff but yeah no
00:50:21
I'm really happy yeah yeah CU a lot of
00:50:24
you guys end up with real broken bodies
00:50:25
hey like Andre have you read the Andre
00:50:28
aacy book open yeah like he was in a lot
00:50:31
of pain sing singles is a different
00:50:32
Beast to be honest but yeah doubles is
00:50:34
tough obviously I missed ASB this year
00:50:35
because I I have two broken ribs right
00:50:37
now so that's not fun so yeah oh how did
00:50:41
that happen coughing I was sick at the
00:50:43
end of season and uh I guess you can
00:50:46
cough yeah you can cough you can cough
00:50:48
so hard that you break your ribs
00:50:50
apparently I guess it's common I didn't
00:50:52
even know yeah I expected some awesome
00:50:55
tennis it's not a good story at all it's
00:50:57
like very like I I like wish it was like
00:51:00
a cooler B more badass story but it's
00:51:02
not so um goals for 2025 or is it hard
00:51:05
for you to have goals because it' be
00:51:06
nice to say like win a grand slam but as
00:51:08
as you've sort of explained like it
00:51:09
requires a fair bit of luck eh yeah and
00:51:11
I think you know we are just going match
00:51:14
by match day by day at this point I
00:51:16
think um we believe that we can beat
00:51:18
anyone that is in front of us and I
00:51:20
think yeah we we've always said we want
00:51:22
to be multiple Grand Slam winners so we
00:51:23
have only won one together so to win
00:51:25
another that would be great or more or
00:51:26
whatever it is um yeah I mean I think we
00:51:30
always want to be like the number one
00:51:31
team in the world so that's a big goal
00:51:33
but I think yeah there's a lot of it's
00:51:35
all about the process we don't even we
00:51:37
don't even honestly talk about our goals
00:51:38
because we just we kind of know we're
00:51:40
like on the same wavelength we know that
00:51:41
we just need to do our stuff in order to
00:51:43
get there so yeah do you ever you you
00:51:45
seem like um you've got such a growth
00:51:46
mindset so um I'm probably just
00:51:48
projecting here but do you ever do you
00:51:50
ever pause to think how different your
00:51:52
life would look had you know you stayed
00:51:54
at the tanning salon that's funny like
00:51:57
you know you think of all the all the
00:51:59
incredible stuff and and all the bad
00:52:01
stuff that's happened to you yeah since
00:52:03
then but um yeah no I mean it would be
00:52:05
crazy I I I uh yeah I don't even know I
00:52:10
think I I I am a true believer that
00:52:12
everything happens for a reason so
00:52:13
there's a reason that was like H you
00:52:15
know happened and why I got that job and
00:52:17
whatever but yeah no my life would be
00:52:19
crazy different I don't even know what I
00:52:20
would be doing if I didn't go back to
00:52:21
tennis you could be manager of the
00:52:23
tening a little could own one right
00:52:27
um what would um if Gabby was here what
00:52:29
would she say your biggest strengths and
00:52:30
weaknesses
00:52:31
are ooh
00:52:35
uh let's go strengths first my biggest
00:52:38
strengths I don't know I I hope um
00:52:43
probably to make her laugh I think she
00:52:45
thinks I'm pretty funny and that helps
00:52:47
to keep things light and you know have
00:52:50
us help us enjoy our lives and our
00:52:52
matches and everything like that um
00:52:55
probably my that's so lame but like my
00:52:57
forehand she like loves my forehand
00:53:00
um um weaknesses damn
00:53:05
uh what would she say my biggest
00:53:08
weakness is I I I'm quite stubborn I
00:53:11
think she'd probably say that we're both
00:53:12
very stubborn both of us but yeah I
00:53:14
think she would probably say stubborn
00:53:16
sometimes I'm I try to be open-minded
00:53:18
but sometimes I'm like stuck on I'm very
00:53:19
black and white this is I mean my
00:53:22
psychologist told me the other day that
00:53:23
I'm very black and white and it's like
00:53:24
you either do this and this happens or
00:53:26
you don't do this and this doesn't
00:53:27
happen very so I think maybe sometimes I
00:53:29
can be in the gray a little bit more so
00:53:31
yeah maybe stubborn a work on a work I'm
00:53:34
working on it okay um yeah you said your
00:53:36
psychologist instead of sports yeah yeah
00:53:38
I I've multiple but yeah do what do you
00:53:41
mean you got multiple well you have no
00:53:44
no I I have like I have two there's like
00:53:46
a regular therapist and then like a
00:53:48
sports psych tennis players we need a
00:53:50
lot of therapists okay so yeah how how
00:53:52
old were you when you first um went to a
00:53:55
therapist
00:53:58
uh 14 14 wow wow like did your parents
00:54:02
send you was it a school sanctioned
00:54:04
thing or yeah yeah my parents sent me
00:54:06
and then also I did it in college um my
00:54:08
coach in college sent me and then I
00:54:10
started doing my own stuff like out of
00:54:12
probably during when I quit tennis in
00:54:13
like 2019 and now it's just like a it's
00:54:15
like a journey yeah all different yeah I
00:54:18
feel like in here in New Zealand it's
00:54:19
becoming like more and more set of
00:54:21
common and there's no Stigma involved
00:54:23
stigma involved with it anymore but um
00:54:25
yeah feel like Americans and Canadians
00:54:27
and South Americans and other parts of
00:54:29
the world are far more open to it than
00:54:30
what a lot of new zealanders still are
00:54:32
really yeah oh interesting yeah no I
00:54:34
don't think there should be any stigma I
00:54:35
think I honestly think every single
00:54:36
person on the planet needs one yeah I I
00:54:38
started going about five years ago it's
00:54:39
the best thing ever no way it's like a
00:54:41
personal trainer for your for your brain
00:54:44
and it's like this is a muscle that we
00:54:45
all need to be working seriously I
00:54:47
literally walk out every single time and
00:54:49
I learn something new and I'm like so
00:54:51
happy it's the best yeah it's just a
00:54:53
different way of framing things and
00:54:54
looking at things oh it's so good you
00:54:56
get to talk about yourself for an hour
00:54:58
who would who would not want that that's
00:55:01
funny so do you do it by um do do you do
00:55:03
it by Zoom you do it online or yeah Zoom
00:55:06
yeah yeah cuz I'm traveling like my our
00:55:08
our season is like 10 months of the year
00:55:10
so yeah unreal are you proud of yourself
00:55:14
yeah yeah that's a nice question yes I
00:55:16
am I would definitely say yeah yeah I I
00:55:18
like asking that one because a lot of
00:55:20
new zealanders I think more males in
00:55:21
particular um really struggle to answer
00:55:23
that because it feels I don't know cocky
00:55:25
kind of cocky or braggy or something
00:55:27
like we're not allowed to be proud of
00:55:28
yourself but I think um I think it's
00:55:30
good if you've got that sort of
00:55:31
self-awareness that you can be proud of
00:55:32
yourself I think that's a really
00:55:33
powerful thing yeah that's nice yeah no
00:55:35
I I mean I don't think I've said that
00:55:38
often but yeah no I definitely am if I
00:55:40
think about if I think about it pretty
00:55:42
hard yeah yeah I am and oh you know we
00:55:44
don't want you to think about it pretty
00:55:45
hard iy by the way I just noticed your
00:55:47
tattoo s on your left wrist you like
00:55:50
that that's so cool from Olympics yeah I
00:55:52
got it like a month ago that's so cool
00:55:54
and were you okay just a followup from
00:55:57
that last question um yeah will you
00:55:59
proud of yourself before the
00:56:00
achievements of like the last couple of
00:56:01
years yeah yeah I think yeah definitely
00:56:04
I think um tennis is hard because
00:56:06
there's so much validation from winning
00:56:07
and losing well winning I guess and you
00:56:09
know a lot of I think athletes in
00:56:12
general we take a lot of selfworth from
00:56:13
our achievements which is not healthy
00:56:17
but yeah I'm definitely learning and uh
00:56:19
yeah I would say I was proud of myself
00:56:20
before for sure yeah that's cool I
00:56:22
cannot wait to see what the future
00:56:23
brings oh thank you um yeah it feels
00:56:25
like now is your time to shine oh thanks
00:56:28
Erin rattled the greatest New Zealand
00:56:31
tennis player you've never heard of but
00:56:32
now we have yeah you better now hey
00:56:36
thanks so much for your time thanks a
00:56:37
lot for having me