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[Music] Janet Redmond welcome to my podcast thank you Dom do you like Dom or Dominic
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Dom's good Dom Dom's good um yeah that's it's funny you're the first
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person that's asked that oh I sort of respond to both but um I I like them both I'm okay with both well it interest
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me why some people shorten the name they were given so that's why I ask that but
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that might take us down a totally different path well was when I was growing up it was a it was a very rare
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name I think it is still quite rare but not not as rare is what it was and um I was very self-conscious like growing up
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um oh it's like we're getting into a therapy session already um like School
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teachers at the start of the year or when you're waiting in a doctor's clinic
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or whatever they'd come out and they'd call Dominique which is the girls
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version of the name yeah and for some reason that um yeah really made me feel uncomfortable when I was a little I bet
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well it's a subtle difference Dominic Dominique yeah well Dominic's wasn't my
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name anyway um I want to just one jump in there I'm allergic to the word therapist I used to be a therapist
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psychotherapist registered and the reason I stepped away from that probably will come out okay in this conversation
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I call myself a possibility manager now yeah and that was the first thing I was going to ask you what does that mean so
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a possibility manager for me is about supporting people to change the way they think so to change their thought we
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because if we don't change the thought way we can't change the context of what
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it is we want that's different and so possibility management is quite a huge
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worldwide uh what do I call it culture Now with an amazing guy I met in San Francisco 2007 Clinton Kahan yeah and
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you're you're very qualified like you've been um you're a trained primary school
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teacher uh you're a trained psychotherapist uh you've done a lot of um specialist work with trauma yes um
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and this is you now possibility manager traveling traveling around the country and in a camper van you call your flying
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Walker flying Walker or feelings Walker it's the place people can come and look
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at why they stopped feeling and feel because for me feelings have a huge information and energy that can be used
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for either reinforcing old traumas or for creating the kind of communication and world I want to live in and that's
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what motivates me to do to hold spaces that I hold yeah now now now you are here today or um you came on my radar
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because um just last weekend on neon which is a streaming platform I watched um style Bender uh the Israel Adisa
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documentary which was um released in late 2023 and it's just available now on
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the neon streaming platform and my god um you well it's Israel's movie um but
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you stole the show for me uh as did his um coach Eugene but style Bend of the documentary it starts with you this
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beautiful shot of your flying Walker up on a Hillside and then it goes inside and then you you feature throughout the
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documentary um having um uh well not therapy sessions I was going to call it therapy what do you call it well field
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to heel space field to heel yeah and um this um movie for me was an unexpected surprise I'd say it's one of
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the best sports documentaries I've ever seen I was Sur surprisingly emotional
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and it cried several times as in tears uh streaming down my my cheeks crying at which point
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St I mean one that Springs to mind is and I wanted to get into this later and what you were doing um one where you you
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you're doing a therapy session with Israel and he's being held down by three
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guys trying to get some trauma out of his gut and then he's just um like in a
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in a ball of Tears on the ground and it was um I don't know it was just a it was
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a hard watch yeah it that's called a rage hold so it's the way of being able to express
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old emotions in a really Safe Way when I'd been to Izzy's place before he had a
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we did a group with about seven of his mates and the first time he did the rage hold I had had to sit on one of the four
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guys who were holding him down there was so much old energy in there so yeah he's
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quite strong very strong yeah so um how how did this come about how did you end how did you like a a
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pensioner yeah a woman not retired I had my 65th birthday uh January and I'm not
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retiring I'm reiring so yes love that I'm reiring as as the woman I am now how
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did I get involved with it yeah how did how did a you know 65y old woman from mka end up as the unlikely star of the
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Israel Adisa story I ask myself the same question Dom cuz really you pick the most unlikely
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person on the planet for that role and it's like pick me not into sports how it
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came about was Zoe MOS yeah Zoe McIntosh the director the director came to one of my trainings
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I had a 3-day training filter Hill training at the retreat center Shada Retreat Center in
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tuo and she came and she knew I was working with Izzy and she said what you doing do is Magic and it needs to be
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documented so she asked if I'd bring the two together cuz she knew I'll keep the
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names Anonymous she knew Izzy's partner at the time and that's how it all came
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together and she said to me it might be worth you interviewing her she said to me but for my involvement she'd have
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pulled out because it was a bog standard boring run linear Sportsman documentary and she said once she had
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that creative impulse to include me and the sessions we did she was totally ref fired up to to keep going and do the
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beautiful job she's done and were you were you um on board from the beginning
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or were you reluctant to take part I mean um like like um sessions like this are very very um private and personal um
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and you they're not often shared I suppose that's more to do with the client than the the counselor but how
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did you feel about that I was well with clear contrac him that Israel's okay
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yeah I was totally on board cuz look at the many millions of people especially young men that he can reach given his
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his street credibility yeah yeah it's so so powerful so what about that first that
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first meeting or that first interaction because you had no idea who he was right
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no I just told you out there no so his I his girlfriend at the time reached out to me and they asked I was seing her
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first and saw them both together it was lockdown so it was all on Zoom what was it like a c's therapy thing or something
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well I like to call it cuz my the trainings I offer is called building communication Bridges inside and out so
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between different parts of ourselves and together so as mediator or coach would be other words people use for me and
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yeah was helping them see where they were creating drama together and offered them tools other tools other than
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creating drama and then so when you start working with Israel Adisa oneon-one um how does that happen with the first
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session like like where do you where do you begin you know what I mean I I I had my
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um I saw a therapist for the first time in my life maybe um 20 I think it was just pre- lockdown sort of 2020 and it
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was one of the best things I've ever done but I put off got the first 45 years or whatever of my life cuz I
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thought I'm going to sit down and I'm not going to know where to start oh that was isn't is he easy to
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talk to uh he opened up pretty very openly but some other people who much more quieter in their
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personality I start where they are I think that is one of my skills being able to meet people where they're at
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with no judgment and ask them why why why are they reaching out to someone like me and then we start there and and how
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how long was it before before he broke down and cried was that the first session or does
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that take a while are you sort of chipping away for a bit H I don't know and be because that's not the part
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I have a yes to to reveal I'd rather I want to focus on the parts in the movie
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which he is okay about people knowing about so okay yeah Fe enough um yeah yeah cool that's a good answer I really
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respect that so how many and was was the sessions that you did mainly for the movie or is is there a lot of stuff that
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you did that's that's not filmed and will never be seen do you know what I
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mean yeah there is uh some sessions not too many um definitely some sessions that
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aren't seen m and if I was the director of the movie I would have put other things in as well really yeah one of the
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one of my team who's one of the um what do I call them space holder trainees for
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the trainings I offer Brier she wants to get all the documentary stuff that wasn't screened
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from uh what's the company called fluro black MH and used that to make another
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documentary yeah and how did how did you feel personally um you're you're holding
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these um sessions which you do uh and have done for many years but doing it with camera Crews there and people
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holding microphones and totally a bit like this here now totally my tensions with
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you phraser said at the end that I should be an actor and I did this frowned thought be an actor why would I
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need to be an act and this is the real thing yeah so no it didn't affect me at
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all I mean this my campers on small and there's a huge big camera over there but
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totally it was I think you can see that in the movie my focus his presence was totally with him yeah and so so you have
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a few sessions and then um are you are you still in contact now or is it sort of like um I invited him to my 65th
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birthday but he's not in the country but in terms of sessions no not at the moment yeah what is he sort of is he
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sort of fixed now or he just he no longer no there no is he anyone ever fixed or is that you know you have eight
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sessions or six sessions and then well I tell you what if get into a primary relationship and test it that's what I
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say test the work because although I was seen as a trauma specialist I changed the word to uncles it's an acronym
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unprocessed neglected key life events and so I say we have uncles that need processing cuz what was unprocessed
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needs processing and what was neglected needs our attention those key life events that are really clearly in the in
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sty Bender movie that totally defined who he was yeah the some of these things you're
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talking about is um moving to New Zealand um um like just severe bullying at school including being like held over
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a urinal um and just awful awful racism um awful racism which almost it's kind
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of similar to the Mike Tyson story in a way Mike Tyson um used to um he was a very introverted kid and he used to like
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raise and race pigeons and there was a bully that um that grabbed his P pigeon off him one day and like ripped the head
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off and Mike decided he needed to defend himself after that so he got into boxing
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so it feels like a similar sort of very similar isn't it yeah yeah and that's
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why at the end of the movie we're out at car KY just past pea and I had to go that's
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one thing I would keep putting in the movie I had to go three or four different ways
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of saying how can you fight differently without pummeling and really hurting someone else cuz now he does his chip
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off his shoulder was healed I would I would make that declaration and he said well it would
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just be like spiring and there's not much fun in that well there's not much money in it either
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probably yeah I I suppose yeah I don't know I've never done any fighting in my
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life and I know very little about it but I suppose for someone like Israel the the fear would be um you know you you
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smooth away his edges and then he just doesn't have that killer instinct anymore do you know what I mean well
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he's too gentle to to exactly I said this to him Dom I said inform consent here if you heal all this you might not
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be able to fight you may not be a Savage anymore yeah hopefully and he has so many other
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skills his creativity his anime stuff so no I really put that on the table to say
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if you heal this you may not be able to keep doing what you're doing yeah well I'm
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personally like a big a big fan of the whole um israela package you know the fighting thing I I don't know too much
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about it um but I I enjoy watching him but mainly I enjoy the the postmatch speeches um how uh gracious and humble
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he's been in defeat how arrogant and cocky he is when he wins um how defiant
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he is uh yeah just like his mannerisms everything about him the whole package I'm just a massive fan and uh and to
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actually to to see this documentary I think that's the thing that sort of sort
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of upset me because you just don't realize what someone's going through you
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know from an outside perspective all you see is this um this swaggy swaggy dude driving around on a McLaren
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yeah that's right I think we've all got really good survival mechanisms that can
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totally mask what's happening on the inside and I like I said to you before I
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was totally surprised I would recommend the movie because of my I just don't
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like all that fighting but it wasn't it was a human that is most vulnerable most
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arrogant like you said most cockhead most kind so that's why I love it we've
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all got our shadow side we've all got our Shin inside and that's why I recommended people to go and see the
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movie I I love that have you how has your life changed since the documentary came out has it changed at all not much
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no my my trainings are full so I come up to Oakland every few months and hold these building communication Bridges
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inside and out trainings field to heel spaces and in Nelson so a little but not much but different sort of um clientele
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or new customers like you seen many many young men or a few for sure but that's
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what I was doing anyway all right hey let's talk about you for a second then so you're a
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possibility manager what is it that makes you so good well years of first of all
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following my mentor which was Dr Richard kin teaching me how to make contact with people and being able to
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meet them exactly where they're at I have a s sound theoretical base which is my road maps for holding
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spaces usually people when they're ready or willing to get into their feelings
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and I know I can hold space for 100% anger 100% sadness 100% fear 100% joy and that's the four feelings I use
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anything else for me is a mixed emotion and then that's what creates depression
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and other obsessive compulsive disorders and things so having a s theoretical base plus however many years and Decades
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of experience m and my passion for people to live their potential Dom yeah and I can feel my own sadness a
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bit when I think about the last funeral I took cuz I'm also a celebrant my friend's my son's young
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friend and Jamie's uh friend Tim died killed himself at 16 oh so heaps I've
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got an article on my website about this these p young men especially not only man being the canary in the coal mine
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that something in the way we're living isn't working and so I wrote a little
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artical about that yeah what do you think that is for some young men do you think it's um just
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too hard to articulate what you're feeling or communicate it so so I'm going to be radical I think school lets
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us down lets them all down they don't come out with any emotional fluency so
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their first heartbreak is devastating for them they don't know know that sadness is okay especially men I watch
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My Three Sons you know toughen up cover their sadness with anger especially going out
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when they went out in the world at home they'd feel their sadness a bit more so
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I think it's that I don't think we have initiation processes that prepare young
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people for what's needed in terms of increasing their level of responsibility
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in the world we keep them as teenagers not inviting them to clean up the messes they're
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making yeah so so what about you so you're born in the UK born in Burnley in
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Lancashire yeah how did you end up in NZ 14 mom and dad brought us here so 50 odd
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years ago I've been here and that was a big step because my dad's the only child and I left my
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Grandma and Granddad there and they were really close to me they eventually came out to New Zealand
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in 82 to live 76 to visit 82 to live wow so I was really glad about that and why
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did you select this line of work I reckon I was born with it I learn to sus out a room who's feeling what do
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I go close to them do I stay away so it's I think it's part of my destiny
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yeah you you do have like a really um I don't know like warm and inviting presence where you do feel really
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immediately comfortable around you like you when you walked in before my partner
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was here and Jackson the cameraman and even my dog gravitated towards you like you just have this um I don't know and I
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I yeah I don't know if you if if I mean I've only met you today so I don't know
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if it's always been like that or if it's just like a almost a grandmotherly sort
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of vibe that you have no I come from Lan all of us can talk to anybody my German
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friend did a little little bit of a audio podcast saying how do you how can you talk to just anyone yeah and I
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turned it around on him and said Gabrielle how come you don't like it's so foreign to me why would I walk past a
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human I can interact with so this is my yeah I think people do feel relaxed around me
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easily and So you you're trained as a psychotherapist what does that mean exactly what did you do I trained first
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as a counselor in the old Carrington before unitech uh oh the old Psychiatric Hospital yeah
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well it after it was not the psychiatric hospital it was called Caron Tech in 1992 okay and then it became unitech so
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I started training there and then became trained as a counselor with the human development and Training Institute here
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in New Market then I wanted to set an international qualification as a transactional analyst
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so that's Eric Burn's model of um work and then eventually over the decades I
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went up to as high as you can get actually as an internationally recognized have to remember the names
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it's in the graveyard training and supervising transaction analyst and which is where I met Clinton
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Kahan at the TA conference right that's um that sounds like an exhausting line of work you must
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you know what I mean in terms of the weight of um problems that you're dealing with
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and I don't know it just feels like you'd finish each day carrying quite a
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burden no no my sister's in the accountancy world that would be a yes so no and I have energetic tools that I
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use it you know not taking it on for sure no I can't think of especially when I run a training which
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is when I think I'm really on fire um I can't think of anything I'd rather do wow that's amazing and and
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then you became a a trauma specialist what does that mean exactly what happened really my interest in what
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stopped people reaching their full potential or being stuck when they did used to come for counseling or
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Psychotherapy and you know neurologically phys logically emotionally when people
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haven't healed those frozen aspects of their life event so it just happened and then I did
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courses with David belli so I became a trauma release exercise trainer as well and of course what makes me so good is
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I've had to do my own work did you on yourself heal my absolutely heal all my
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own traumas yeah how do what were yours do you want to get into that or not particularly what were my men well
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um Mom and Dad were really autocratic parents but they wanted blind obedience lancer's national anthem is
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toughen up get on with it that English stiff upper lip thing well languish is even worse right in
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fact my dear friend up in ooni she says you know when you're with a pom and how
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do I know they're Pucket at both ends it sums it up you because look my my parents were both their parents were
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in the war mom's dad died in the war working Clash Lancashire was really hard and so I was parented by parents
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who had their own traumas yeah so a lot of that not feeling don't feel get on with it be
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strong hurry H up so I was Superwoman for a while and then that started to crumble that image and started to do my
00:24:06
own feelings work God that sounds really familiar to you 100% yeah it works it works until it doesn't right yeah for
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all of us I think I think that's part of what midlife crisis is the mechanism we
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created to survive eventually either we'll do more of it and do it more intensely or it's
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an opportunity to thrive not survive yeah feel feels like it's like a bag of um
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bag of gym clothes and you just keep stuffing in the dirty gym clothes and eventually you got to wash it cuz it's
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that's a super analogy is it actually absolutely but it's like it's not going
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to go anywhere it's just going to going to smell more and smell more and rot
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yeah for me it showed up in dreams CU I love dream work and I every night I'd go
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the to his sleep and all the toilets were full of [ __ ] no matter where I went there was I can still see the dream
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cubicle of eight toilets all nothing was flushing away nowhere to go so yours is
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a little more socially acceptable here Janet okay so what are what are some of the oh first of all so
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how do you how do you how do you treat yourself like when you know you've got
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um um issues that need addressing because I would imagine it's EAS it's easy to have like a broader View and be
00:25:30
in your position and say okay a this is the issue this is what you need it's
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it's often harder to identify problems internally isn't it which is why I keep
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going to my own trainings and so like last four days um last week I was at sha Retreat again and my friend and
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colleague Anna Nur bua was holding one of the foundation trainings impossibility management that is called
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expand the box and it's a 4-day intense look looking at your own stuff and then
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I'll go to a lab soon in March so I keep being under scrutiny around other people
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plus I have a team and I if I'm triggered which I of course I get triggered for me I know then that that's
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an emotion so one distinction that wasn't made so clearly as a psychotherapist was the distinction
00:26:23
between emotions and feelings and although they're the same mad s had bad Cloud emotions are always from the past
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so I know if I'm having if I'm triggered there's an emotion there from the past
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and I reach out to my team for an emotional healing process so it's always an
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opportunity okay so there's and there's the one-on-one sessions that you do but
00:26:48
there's also um like the groups and the workshops that you do so what are what
00:26:52
are I don't know if there is but if there are what are common problems or issues that you see in most people you
00:26:57
work with and you know is there small stuff that we can all do to get better definitely bring your ears from beside
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your head to your heart not many people can really listen they either do neurotic listening and make it all about
00:27:14
them or what I call the roadblocks to listening which is interrogation or reassuring using the roadblocks to
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communication which is a always a part of the trainings I offer right and we've
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used usually been the recipient of that kind of listening and then there's really good reasons that I don't want to
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tell you what I'm feeling if you're going to fix me or tell me I shouldn't
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be so did I answer your question I lost track of the question I think so I I just ask what like what are the common
00:27:45
problems or issues you see in people small stuff they can do to get better you think just listening a listening is
00:27:51
huge yeah so in my flying Walker I've got one thing written on one of my cupboards and that's transformational
00:27:58
listening changes the morphogenetic field and I believe it if I only listen to you off camera for half an hour I'm
00:28:07
sure you would go to places you haven't been because I I do listen with my heart
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yeah and on a training I put ears e a r is in the middle of here and I put a t on it and that's heart so that's always
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my commitment I love that to listen with my ears in my heart was like a more um compassionate way of the saying um you
00:28:31
know you've got two ears one mouth use them shut up yeah okay so um what about
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me I'm wondering how you could how you could help me today because I I I saw
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the starer movie and I saw the work you did with Izzy and I I thought oh my God this lady's amazing and I've um I've got
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so many issues and I just don't know I'm um I've got I've got no reason to be
00:28:54
unhappy about anything but I'm just I'm just sad so often well well how what did you just feel in
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your body when you said that um yeah that take a moment we can cut this out it doesn't have to be on
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here sad there'll be a reason you're sad D and it might not be for now keep going
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yeah I I don't know why like I've got I feel like I've got um nothing to be said
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about like I've got um you know fantastic family and friends and and people that love me and it's just I just
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I just don't um I don't um like myself as much as what I feel like I should I um yeah I don't
00:29:34
know it's like it's like a self self-esteem thing I of um my girlfriend who you met on the way in um we've only
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been living together for a few months now but like we'll do exercise in the morning and she'll um she'll have like a
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a 3K run around the park or'll do a pilates workout and then she'll be she'll be glowing in the face and she'll
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say to me I'm so proud of myself and for me to get to the point where I feel
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proud of myself I need to be doing something extreme like on Monday I went for a 30k run and um I felt proud of
00:30:02
myself after that but I'm just I'm just so mean to myself and I don't know why I
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don't know how I can how I can get get around it so it's [ __ ] day it's no sounds
00:30:15
normal to me who used to be mean to you well no one really I mean not that I can not that I can think of I mean you
00:30:26
know when you go to schools a rough time for everyone right to a degree oh that alone yes how was it rough for you Dom
00:30:34
well I don't know you just I I like I look back and I think um you know you just you desperately want
00:30:42
to fit in you always want to fit in and um yeah so it was I think I feel like I was just subjected to this the standard
00:30:52
sort of like bullying that everyone's subjected to at school like you don't
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you know all all the kids had uh like BMX has and mom and dad wanted me to have a sensible bike so you don't have
00:31:01
the you the shiny the shiny clothes or the the shiny object that you want but nothing nothing really you know what I
00:31:08
mean but I think that is something because were you ridiculed in any way yeah of course but I feel like
00:31:16
everyone shame yeah but I feel like everyone at at school gets subjected to that no one gets out on scath right
00:31:23
doesn't mean it doesn't leave scars yeah off often we don't know we've
00:31:28
been envied we only know that embedded shame that's the result of it but if we
00:31:35
feel we're odd or different in any way what about expectations what would you say your parents spoken or unspoken
00:31:45
expectations of your were the um it's it's a complicated one with my parents cuz it's you know you
00:31:54
look back on reflection my my parents were like super super super supportive um like I I you know they they they
00:32:01
bought me and my siblings up to tell you you could do anything you wanted to which is really really cool and I I you
00:32:07
know we were growing up in a a place called paliston North I wanted to get into radio which was a very very
00:32:12
unorthodox sort of occupation but they never tried to talk me out of it so they were always really encouraging in that
00:32:17
way um but it was on the on the flip side of that it was quite a tense household growing up like Mom and Dad
00:32:23
should have broken up 20 years before they did um you you get and you form your own adult relationships and you
00:32:29
realize oh that wasn't that wasn't normal like there you it's like it's a
00:32:34
very we always lived in quite quite a small house there like like six people in a three-bedroom house um and and uh
00:32:42
which which is fine it was just sort of middle class New Zealand in in the 1980s
00:32:45
but um you realize there's a lot of tension around you know with dad's drinking and Mom and Dad you didn't like
00:32:52
each other and stuff like that so then but but for me and my siblings incredibly you know supportive however
00:33:00
what you're talking about affects kids enormously if you have to live with that
00:33:05
amount of conflict it's you can't relax yeah yeah and then there was another thing in the
00:33:10
style Bender movie that sort of resonated with me with is he talking about his own family um yeah we were was
00:33:16
a very and yours actually it was a very strict household um so it felt like I felt like I was getting getting the belt
00:33:23
all the [ __ ] time and my younger brother who was like a bit of a Savage he he mind like he'd be over the bed
00:33:29
he'd look back at dad and say you don't scare me but me I was um I was a scared
00:33:34
little boy no wonder Dom which where in the hierarchy of siblings are you I'm
00:33:41
second to oldest so it's yeah oldest sister me younger brother and then younger
00:33:45
sister um yeah I mean that I would encourage us to look at you with someone else at some stage because
00:33:54
neurologically you wouldn't have been able to relax M so that's that's what I'm
00:33:59
talking about this unprocessed experience that you have to survive but surviving isn't
00:34:09
thriving how did your dad's drinking affect you cuz it's usually unpredictable dumb
00:34:16
to be around someone who uses alcohol I look back now it was yeah your dad Dad drunk a lot but it was um it was
00:34:28
more the tension that was created with him and Mom when he was drinking you know so that' sort of be
00:34:34
arguing but it was never there was never any sort of you know uh physical violence or anything I think there's
00:34:40
verbal aggression between Mom and Dad um well and tension kids pick up yeah yeah
00:34:45
the tension a lot of tension um how do you if you think about that younger you what would you say to him so that
00:34:55
you show him you had some idea what it might have been like yeah that one let your chin keep
00:35:02
quivering Dom you can feel what you're feeling just let the emotions be your
00:35:16
first go what what want to tell him it's going to be all right but it's like it wasn't
00:35:24
all right was it no and it's still not thank you for feeling this it's and nothing about that was all
00:35:35
right in order for him to relax neurologically and who notice the effect of this tension when Dad was drinking
00:35:48
who noticed the effect on you Dom I don't know if anyone did I don't know we just crack on
00:35:56
cracked on with things I don't know how lonely that no one noticed the impact on
00:36:05
you yeah I suppose it's just how it was at the time I mean my parents did I know they did the best they could
00:36:13
with the resources they had at the time and the information they had at the time
00:36:16
and it was a very strict religious upbringing as well and so it's how all my cousins were raised and my mom's
00:36:23
family it's a very big family and so all my um cousins it was all the same way
00:36:30
every everyone was getting disciplined all the time um and you know look but I look back now it's I I just don't yeah
00:36:37
much like Israel it just didn't it just didn't sort of work for me or didn't
00:36:40
agree with me and I've probably still got a bit of a chip on my shoulder about
00:36:44
that um yeah it's just yeah it's just weird you know I I am like I think I'm quite a nice person
00:36:54
but I I treat everyone better than what I what I treat myself and I think part of that is because I'm I'm a good person
00:37:01
but I think part of is is maybe like an issue that I've just got this yeah people pleasing trait or this yeah this
00:37:08
need to be liked or something like that yeah so natural given the environment you're talking
00:37:14
about cuz while you could please them and keep them happy how did that work for you yeah I don't
00:37:25
know I don't know I I think like you were saying before you know worked it works for a time and until it
00:37:34
doesn't yeah well if you're brave enough come on 9th and 10th of March to
00:37:40
building communication Bridges inside and out okay cuz it's Building Bridges
00:37:44
with that younger you m that didn't have the attention put on how scary that was
00:37:52
m so how does that work so with a group s like that how does that work that's
00:37:58
very very how many people are there like it's very confronting thinking you're
00:38:02
going to break down in front of a group of strangers do you know what I mean oh that's most people's fear and some
00:38:09
people have done it many many times and they sit and watch the first time check out how I'm working I've got a team
00:38:17
James Andrews is my we're co- facilitators together co-s space holders and then an amazing team of upcoming
00:38:25
space holders so so we talk about fears of feeling in front of other people and people who've done it before
00:38:33
are already ready to talk about the feelings or the emotions that are locked and when we look at the driver
00:38:42
behaviors the pleasing others is one of those driver behaviors that we engage to
00:38:48
keep this other vulnerable part out of awareness so for Izzy definitely be strong and that was one my main driver
00:38:58
Five drivers so we look at that as well in the [Music] training life it's hard isn't it and um
00:39:09
yeah I I I think um these um emotions for me like have um been bubbling to the surface for the
00:39:18
past few years cuz I I I I left school got into a career in radio I kept myself um as busy as what I
00:39:25
could for and it's only been the last few years that I've sort of taken the
00:39:28
foot off the accelerator and given myself like a bit more breathing space and it's when you do that it's like um
00:39:36
I've I've realized now that um yeah my work or career I think I probably
00:39:40
overworked myself and as a as a way of maybe trying to sort of outrun potential issues or just keeping myself busy so I
00:39:46
don't have to focus on anything else and even look at your body as you're talking
00:39:50
about this your body's communicating to both of us is that how do you mean when
00:39:56
you're busy shaking you might not even know you're shaking your body's giv me
00:40:01
the clues that yeah hurry up be strong carry on Soldier on we're talking to we're
00:40:08
Twins and it did work for a while while you can keep it going but then us yeah [ __ ] usually life comes along with
00:40:17
something for me it was my second child and he had lactose in tolerance and cried I hardly slept and that's what I
00:40:26
needed to start cracking my if I think of a walnut it had to the pressure from the inside started to crack the wallnut
00:40:36
up and yeah yeah for me I I feel like I was um constantly chasing something and it
00:40:42
was so like once I once I reach this Milestone everything's going to be all right once I get this and and um for me
00:40:49
I think that sort of manifested itself in the accumulation of positions so I got a really nice really nice house um
00:40:57
and and it wasn't until I accumulated everything I want including a a wonderful swimming pool and a spa pool
00:41:04
and a library room the the like a house that um was I suppose a house that's
00:41:10
nicer than any house I ever grew up in it's when you accumulate that you sort
00:41:14
of realize ah the actual the actual dopamine hit or whatever was the thought of getting something and then when you
00:41:21
actually get it it's like ah it's that all and then you're chasing the next
00:41:25
thing so a few years ago I um downside so I'm in my apartment now so it's I mean it's still quite cluttered
00:41:32
but it's closer to minimalism than than what I was but it's um it's like it's a
00:41:37
really scary thought when you you you're chasing something your whole life and
00:41:41
you think these things are going to bring you happiness and then you get to [ __ ] your late 40s or 50 and you
00:41:47
realize oh [ __ ] no can't out run it empty yeah can't out exactly and then you're faced with these
00:41:54
feelings and emotions yeah and yeah it's just been the last couple of years you
00:41:59
realize I I can't go on like this like I'm I'm fat and healthy so all going
00:42:03
well I'm going to have another another good 30 years ahead of me and I just can't spend another 30 years you know
00:42:09
feeling like this it's just not fair it's hard I'm really touched by your
00:42:16
vulnerability right now really totally such again like Izzy such a visible Frontline person and you're
00:42:25
willing to shake with some Fe fearing your chin in front of me you've not met
00:42:30
me before totally inspiring and then to be a role model for other young men who also don't know how to be with
00:42:40
their feelings Yeah well yeah I mean I've been trying to like be more open and
00:42:47
vulnerable over the last few years cuz I realized it's it's an important thing
00:42:51
like I I genuinely always thought it was like a weakness and it's only the last
00:42:56
few years that I've realized you know um the ability to cry and the ability to communicate this stuff is
00:43:01
actually like um you know the complete opposite the polar op sort of um awakeness but it's it's hard it's not
00:43:08
easy for me but then another thing like I find it easier to sit here with you who's a relative Stranger in front of
00:43:15
these microphones then when I will having these conversations with you people who I love and who love me that's
00:43:21
[ __ ] up right that makes total sense to me does well you might not ever see me again so the risk the risk is much
00:43:30
lower right you're not risking me one judging you which I don't or distancing
00:43:38
myself from you or labeling you as [ __ ] up you don't need to do that I'll do
00:43:44
that first well I'll see that I'll see that which is usually one way we protect
00:43:49
ourselves we get in a bit ourselves up first yeah is that quite a common thing is it very m
00:43:57
and you know the wound of school for so many people is the story you're telling
00:44:02
and I feel so sad about that that school something to be survived it's a place
00:44:09
where some of these uncles traumas happened I mean that's tragic for me yeah yeah I think school's probably got
00:44:18
a lot to answer for you I went to um an old boy school where you know if you if you showed any sort of like
00:44:24
vulnerability or weakness it would just be weaponized against so you just wouldn't so well you learn
00:44:30
to toughen up right you survival mechanism yeah and what you're talking about is the old map of feelings M where
00:44:38
we think weakness sadness is weak you know we it's one thing we do on the training is what's your current map of
00:44:47
beliefs about feeling sad scared anger or joy and once we know that and real realize what we're really
00:44:57
saying is feelings are not okay mhm then we look on so the first day we look at how we get in what I call the swamp the
00:45:07
[ __ ] and then the second down we could look at how to live in the garden and then feelings are not only
00:45:15
okay but I'm consciously accessing my sadness right now for compassion with you and to communicate
00:45:23
or you would see my anger consciously never to hurt someone but to hold boundaries say no this isn't okay and to
00:45:32
go for what I want I want to be I am a grandmother of six I want to be this elder or what Rob maaka calls fire Janet
00:45:42
to to be the person in the world that many people need and to leave the world a better place when this physical body's
00:45:51
buried in the ground which hopefully won't be for a long time yet yeah I hope
00:45:55
not too yeah so yeah every day every conversation I want to create the culture I want to live in which is your
00:46:03
feelings are totally welcome in my space Dom and I suspect if you did come it's
00:46:11
you've been able to reconnect with that fright and D that no one ever witnessed cuz we need protection when
00:46:19
we're scared and you didn't have it yeah it's yeah that's lovely immediately I I sit here
00:46:33
thinking if this podcast goes out you know how will my parents receive it you know what I mean they'll be like well
00:46:40
yeah we were there for you we did have that protection do you know what I mean well they could protect you protect you
00:46:46
to the level they knew was possible I I say it the same they did the best they could 100% but they would
00:46:54
have been parents they would have been children of parents either in the depression probably I'm trying to guess
00:47:00
your age yeah or their parents went to war so it's it's the intergenerational
00:47:08
stuff that doesn't get transformed it gets transmitted so if they're listening it's
00:47:15
not that we're blaming them in any way and I'm going to bring it back to me as
00:47:20
a parent I've definitely created scars for my four children even with the best of
00:47:28
intentions and I don't I'm mindful of that and I've grieved that I did not
00:47:35
have the tools M because I was doing my own work to be the kind of Grandma I am now cuz I've got those much more skills
00:47:46
so anything you would want to say if your mom and dad listened to this um what would you want to
00:47:55
say look I I know I love you guys and I know you did the absolute best you could
00:48:00
with the information you had um at the time um but they they noted that as well we're not an overly um verbal family but
00:48:09
you know we like I'm I'm going overseas with my mom in a few months we're
00:48:13
running a marathon together um my dad dad lives in Wellington we're not overly
00:48:17
close but you know we catch up by text you know every month or every couple of months um but yeah watching um the styl
00:48:26
the movie that like that made me feel like guilt about my relationship with my own parents not that I should buy them a
00:48:31
Bentley because first of all I don't have the means but secondly like um the
00:48:37
main thing like uh material stuff aside like the Bentley that he bought his parents aside like seeing the way he
00:48:42
greets his parents and even though he's still [ __ ] off about you the discipline and the stuff from growing up
00:48:48
how he manages to hug them and embrace them I just don't feel like I have that
00:48:53
with my family I feel like I've gotten aloofness or something you know ability to an inability to S
00:49:00
conect well thinking anybody that uses excessive amount of alcohol is doing it to numb to keep their numbness bar High
00:49:10
your dad will have a good reason yeah he used the anesthetic others use anesthetic of
00:49:16
working hard so they don't feel M so for me it had to go this way so we could
00:49:22
start writing different chapters I'm going to see you in my own time yeah I'm going to see you when's
00:49:32
When's this Workshop you're doing uh there's one in kir Kiri 2nd and third of
00:49:36
March yeah and ockland 9th and 10th of March what about if anyone wants to get a hold of you themselves what's the best
00:49:43
way they should go about doing that Janet redman.com yeah yeah just take a minute now you've
00:49:51
actually opened up probably more than you realize what's your experience of yourself
00:50:00
inside I don't know I breathe that all the way out you you hold your breath as
00:50:06
one way of this is one way we we numb Dom not doing anything wrong but this is the survival mechanism you created
00:50:14
literally to survive good idea I'm getting dry talking a Big Gulp of water um I don't know I suppose I feel like
00:50:23
um I don't know a little bit of like guilt or shame now something I don't know it's just it's a
00:50:29
weird relationship I have with myself like the way the way I speak to myself sometimes Janet it's like I I I do have
00:50:36
certain boundaries and it's like I wouldn't the way I speak to myself I wouldn't accept it from anyone else you
00:50:41
know family member or otherwise I'll be like well you know you can you can [ __ ]
00:50:45
right off yeah it's okay for me feels like the standards or the expectations
00:50:50
or whatever it is that I have for myself it's just so impossibly high that's
00:50:55
exhausting is impossible you wouldn't achieve them I look at it this way I use some of my money when I saw my
00:51:05
house to start a family business called Drain King I have to say it slowly cuz people think I'm saying
00:51:12
drinking Drain King and so all my son three sons and my grandson are in the external drain
00:51:22
business and I keep seeing emotionally I do the same work psychologically go in and clear the drains out but first on
00:51:30
top of the manhole Dom is this en energy Gremlin I don't know what you would call
00:51:37
it that is much more vicious to ourselves but it's a guardan it I don't see it as something
00:51:46
bad at all but we created a somebody that guards what might look like the [ __ ] literally in in external
00:51:56
drains but is actually the gems and treasures that KL Yung talked about the unconscious is 90%
00:52:03
gold so I suspect the person you've got guiding what might look like your [ __ ]
00:52:10
your gems is the part we' have to come in contact with first cuz I know it's
00:52:16
motivation we'll have good intention it's strategies [Music] outdated what do you reckon about that
00:52:25
theory I'm going to have to go back and listen to this later today maybe even
00:52:29
two or three times just to take it all in it's a big S what what do you feeling
00:52:34
as you have that huge side well I after after you're breaking down in front of
00:52:41
you I feel uh I feel like a certain level of exhaustion now I know that when we finish the session uh you know it'll
00:52:47
bit you know that feeling when you go and see a movie during the daytime and then you walk back out into the daylight
00:52:51
afterwards and it's quite an overwhelming sort of like a sensory overload yeah kind of feel like that
00:52:57
well you've invited me to help you feel this stuff and that is part of my skill
00:53:02
set yeah yeah you got me easy didn't you it was a first round knockout no no actually my I said to
00:53:12
James James will you come with me and he was willing to and then I said no I don't want you to come because I'm
00:53:19
hoping D we'll get into his feelings so well be careful what you wish for Janet
00:53:27
um who was the one that invited me I didn't reach out to you yeah no you knew
00:53:33
it's somehow you know that I have the skills or the presence to meet you where
00:53:38
you're at so you're not so hard on yourself Tom is that quite a common thing or
00:53:44
totally is it totally can't tell you how that that makes me feel happy to here it's a it's a it's a common thing
00:53:55
it can just feel very alone and isolated sometimes all people think you're the
00:54:00
only one going through it yeah well that's good hopefully this helps some other people as well and
00:54:07
hopefully some people reach out to you if they um if they feel in a not even same position as me but just if they're
00:54:13
going through some stuff that they think you could help with cuz yeah after watching you in the style binder thing
00:54:18
it's um you're you're very talented you do have a very particular skill set
00:54:23
thank you and not only me any possibility man in New Zealand uh go on the possibility
00:54:29
management New Zealand website the global PM website there's 650 free websites there Clinton Callahan
00:54:40
and his partner and Chloe Desto have huge podcasts TV they're willing to record all the spaces they hold there's
00:54:50
Avail you know free things out there it doesn't you don't have to have money to
00:54:55
be able to pay for what you know pay for the services of someone yeah full full disclosure like
00:55:02
if if we were sitting down having this chat 5 years ago it would have been a very different different actually we
00:55:07
wouldn't no we wouldn't have even been sitting down having this chat 5 years
00:55:09
ago because I would have heard the term possibility manager and I would have been like what what a pile of woo woo
00:55:18
[ __ ] um fear that's hard totally fair no totally fair no then it gets to the point where you realize
00:55:27
um I'm I'm not as happy as what I should be I've got no reason to be upset but
00:55:32
nothing's making me happy so I'm open to anything and uh yeah seeing someone um
00:55:38
like Israel you um yeah seeking your services and getting real benefit from it I think that's um it's a real
00:55:44
empowering thing I am so glad look how vulnerable was he and Sh the power feel to heal he
00:55:53
showed it yeah yeah and also um crying is a really good thing isn't it I um yeah I went through years and
00:56:03
years and years without I I me I mentioned at the beginning of this chat like I um even cried a couple of times
00:56:08
during the sty bind documentary I I cry all the time now I've got no isue with
00:56:12
it but I went through my 20s and 30s without crying at all and myself and my um your former wife we went through a
00:56:19
lot of stuff we went through like rounds and rounds of unsuccessful IVF treatment
00:56:24
and I don't remember like crying or processing any of that stuff at the time
00:56:28
you would have had a high numbness bar said Jim bag we're talking about I exactly exactly and I bet your wife at
00:56:36
the time would have needed your emotional connection having that's such a journey that one yeah oh know it's
00:56:43
it's it's a lot so there's um there's also a lot of guilt and shame about that
00:56:46
like I really felt like um I I let her down and a lot of that was just like bearing myself in my work just um work
00:56:54
as an addiction in a way yeah M and like Gabel Martez says never why the addiction but why the pain and harder
00:57:02
with what you're saying because you've made a way you went for what you wanted
00:57:07
you got it and then you go wow that didn't fill that empty hole inside yeah yeah but also you climb a mountain and
00:57:15
then you realize oh no now I've just got to climb Another Mountain like you never
00:57:20
reach the you never reach the summit do you you never reached a point where okay
00:57:25
once I there I'm going to be happy and that's it I can sit down and relax not
00:57:30
if you're running away from these parts you put underneath the the manhole and 5 years ago I would have met
00:57:38
your cocky arrogant self knowing there's a really scared part of you under there
00:57:44
or else why would you protect it that way you wouldn't scoff we usually scoff at what we need
00:57:52
most yeah or can yeah it's interesting so I would have been putting on an active bravado
00:57:58
but you would have seen right through it yeah I think so that self-righteousness is the defense
00:58:05
against the embedded shame that's deep underneath and thankfully I've got a
00:58:11
spar handle along enough to eventually reach most not all but most yeah oh you're great what a what a great ER it's
00:58:18
been um Janet Redmond thank you we were going backwards and forwards by um email
00:58:24
I think I messaged you I looked you up on go I Googled you and looked you up immediately after watching the stara
00:58:28
movie um we bounced backwards and forwards a couple of times you wanted to know what the um nature of the podcast
00:58:34
was um I I hope what we've done today has you been sort of what I indicated in
00:58:41
the the email yes totally and to make this message hat it's okay to feel in fact it's essential to feel and then to
00:58:50
find new initiation processes that invite us all to be more respons ible M and create the kind of
00:58:58
relationships and communities where everyone can Thrive not just some successful people that's what matters to
00:59:06
me yeah I think that's a good place to end this thank you Dom oh I want wait AE oh no no no you I
00:59:15
want thank you for your vulnerability because this will touch other people you'll speak to that part
00:59:22
of them that all your successful radio PE personality may not have so thank you yeah that could happen or someone will
00:59:34
get the video of me ugly crying and tun it into a meme well that speaks more about them
00:59:40
doesn't it that's true and more it would say more about their fears of feeling
00:59:44
their feelings yeah but they might there's people have got shadows as we all have yeah I I am actually getting
00:59:51
better better with that like years ago um that fear of people people I don't
00:59:56
know mocking me for something would hold me back from doing things but it doesn't
01:00:01
anymore I I actually don't give a [ __ ] about that good make your own meme first
01:00:06
so the power of vulnerability yeah yeah yeah yeah and have it next to the picture of Izzy yeah crying I mean how
01:00:13
big were those tears e after fo died and he lock blocked up his sadness did that
01:00:21
dumb [ __ ] about rape oh the rape tweet yeah yeah and then that session at my sister's place where he said Jan I want
01:00:29
to be able to access my sadness but first we to do that R hold so you know if you could have that picture of him
01:00:37
crying next to picture of you crying you're starting a new men's culture and
01:00:42
it touches me deeply thank you Dom oh you're the best Janet Redmond possibility manager um thank you so much
01:00:50
for coming on the podcast today um I'm so pleased to hear that even though you
01:00:53
are of pensioner age you're not retired I'm a reiring good on you cuz yeah New
01:00:59
Zealand needs you lovely to meet you yeah likewise thank you [Music] Dom