00:00:00
14,400 volts came in my left hand. Remember smelling cooked flesh. >> What did your hands look like?
00:00:06
>> A hot dog that you leave in the microwave. It felt like my hands were being burned.
00:00:11
>> What's the last thing you remember before everything changed? >> My supervisor lowered me down from the
00:00:16
bucket. He did chest compressions to start my heart again. Doesn't seem like
00:00:21
much of a choice. He's also a lineman. Actually killed his pole partner. He lost his arm, but he also lost his pole
00:00:28
partner. I had to ask her to wipe my bottom. >> Was that rock bottom? >> I didn't want to get up. I will always
00:00:35
need someone to help me. Felt like I lost a sense of my identity. >> Did you ever feel like you were going to
00:00:40
die? >> He thought I was going to be a goner. I believe I can do everything.
00:00:46
>> Oh god, you're here. Come on. This is the center of performance. Whenever
00:00:50
there's a top performance in New Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:53
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that for days. That's the boy who got the
00:00:57
hollow one in top. Oh, >> he did it again. Hey Finn, how's the performance going?
00:01:04
>> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In here, you'll find our top performers
00:01:08
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here, Finn. >> Maximize Generate. Putting performance
00:01:15
first. >> Sam Martangi, the Nohanded Bandit. Welcome to my podcast. >> Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.
00:01:21
Appreciate the opportunity to come and talk. >> Yeah. Well, it's great to have you here
00:01:25
uh in New Zealand from Utah, Salt Lake City. >> That's right. Uh I've been here about 4
00:01:31
days and uh it's exciting. There's a lot of new adventures to do here. Yeah.
00:01:36
>> What are the biggest surprises about New Zealand so far? Is it the the lack of
00:01:40
water in the toilets? >> Oh, yeah. No, that that one's I' I've
00:01:46
been to Brazil and so it's the same kind of system, but uh I think the surprises
00:01:52
like traffic. There's traffic everywhere. I didn't think there was traffic everywhere.
00:01:56
>> What were you expecting? >> I don't know. >> Well, it's great to have you here. Um,
00:02:02
yes. Sam Moana from American Samoa. Um, nickname online, the no-handed bandit. Uh, which anyone that's watching this
00:02:12
will be able to figure out how you got that nickname. Anyone that's just listening to this, uh, won't be able to
00:02:17
see what's going on. So, why the nickname the no-handed bandit? Uh, I first came up with the nickname Nohanded
00:02:24
Bandit when I was, uh, 34. I was working on power lines and we were working on a
00:02:32
14,400 volt power line. I went to throw away a piece of scrap wire and the tail end flipped up and hit the power line
00:02:42
and then 14,400 volts came in my left hand and out my right hand. And so, uh, due to the burn injuries, uh, the
00:02:53
insides of my forearms were burnt so badly that they had to amputate my hands. And when I was in the hospital, I
00:03:02
was working with the occupational therapist and they were trying to teach me how to do things with these hands.
00:03:08
And uh, we were looking on YouTube and there wasn't very many people on YouTube
00:03:14
there. There wasn't any people on YouTube teaching how to do that. And so at the time I thought maybe once I get
00:03:22
better I'll make YouTube videos. And then I was thinking what should I go by?
00:03:28
And I thought nohanded. And what rhymes with nohanded? Bandit kind of rhymes. >> Near enough. And how's your how's your
00:03:39
content going? >> Uh it's doing good. Uh there's a lot of people that watch that are double hand
00:03:45
amputees, but there's also a lot of people that watch just because they find
00:03:49
it inspiring that, you know, I'm out there trying to do things and it helps them to smile and and go about their
00:03:56
day, uh trying their best. >> So, the arms you've got, what what's the
00:04:01
name? Do we call them prosthetics? Yeah, these are uh prosthetics or you could uh
00:04:07
well the technical name is prosthesis but uh we call them prosthetics. I call them my hooks sometimes. Um or I just
00:04:17
call them my hands. Yeah. >> Yeah. They're very robotic looking. >> Yeah, they well they seem robotic but
00:04:23
they're actually more uh mechanical. So this cable it if I stretch out my arm it
00:04:32
pulls this this what looks like a thumb and then when I bend my elbows it closes. Also has like a wrist that's
00:04:40
loaded with a spring to spin and then I can you know rotate it to the right position and pick up stuff. And
00:04:49
>> and then I have one last thing is like flexing. So if I want something to get
00:04:54
to my mouth, I need to flex it. >> Everything for you is way more difficult
00:05:00
now than what it was. >> Yeah. I mean pre2010. >> Yeah, for sure. Like the whole world I
00:05:07
think like everything is made for people with hands cuz obviously there's a lot
00:05:12
more people with hands. Uh like doorork knobs and steering wheels and things like that all made for hands. And so
00:05:20
sometimes it's a matter of me doing it uh uh a certain amount of times and then
00:05:26
I catch catch a hold of it and I'm able to do it pretty fast. What's the dumbest question you
00:05:32
constantly get? Uh the dumbest question I constantly get uh well it's usually um were you in a war? Like
00:05:46
they automatically jumped into they are automatically jumped if to war and so they assume everybody that's amputated
00:05:54
is a war. So I think that's the dumbest question like >> um at least get to know me first before
00:06:00
you ask me to the bedroom. No, just kidding. >> And what's your favorite madeup
00:06:06
explanation for what happened? Do you ever do you ever run with the war theme or
00:06:10
>> Yeah. No. Well, there's uh the war theme. I uh sometimes I learned one from
00:06:16
my friend. It's like you say, "Oh man, it was hot in Afghanistan." You just say
00:06:21
how the weather was. Or uh for kids, I tell them like it was sharks or bears or even sometimes the kids play so much
00:06:32
video games that that I tell them a video game controller blew up in my hands. And then they go, "I shouldn't
00:06:38
play so much video games. It's dangerous." Yeah. >> Well, you may as well try and have some
00:06:42
fun with it if you can. Right. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Um I need to warn you in advance, and I
00:06:47
apologize for this. I'm bound to ask some dumb questions today. M um but it comes from a place of wanting to learn
00:06:52
more. >> Yeah. No. Uh I think >> the dumbest question actually is not to
00:06:57
ask at all. So I like I like fielding questions. >> Yeah. >> Are you able to um you've got that glass
00:07:04
of water in front of you. Are you able to pick that up? How do you How do you >> Yeah, it's uh basically I put up my
00:07:12
hooks around it and then I'll pick it up and take a drink and then put it down. Yeah.
00:07:21
>> Unreal. And I notice on your on your left uh forearm >> uh you've got your phone attached there.
00:07:27
>> Yeah. >> How do you like how do you unlock that and operate? How do you text? So, I I
00:07:32
use what's called swipe to text and um the hooks actually work on the screen. A
00:07:38
lot of people are surprised by that, but uh it works. Uh it's a Samsung and so
00:07:44
the brand kind of matters sometimes. Uh back when I was injured, I had a iPhone and the iPhone didn't work with the
00:07:52
hooks, so I had to use a stylus. But, uh texting is I use swipe to text. So, I will touch the each letter
00:08:04
um and then swipe it along to the next letter and stop right there. >> But it's funny, isn't it? So, going from
00:08:14
like um an iPhone to an Android, that's um it's a pain in the ass for a lot of
00:08:18
people. So, but I suppose it's the same for you for you in a in a a much much
00:08:24
much more severe way. going from having uh arms to having these things. It's
00:08:28
like you got to learn this new way of going about things. >> Yeah. The going when I first when it
00:08:34
first happened, it was a tough mental jump. And I think that's the the part that uh I want to emphasize is like the
00:08:44
mental part is probably the hardest part. Um and just like any traumatic injury, it's probably the mental part
00:08:51
that gets most people. Yeah. Or one more dumb question before we get get into it. Say we had a barbecue going
00:08:59
here and there were sausages on it. Yeah. >> Would would you get tongs or would you
00:09:02
just use the >> No, I would just use the hooks and spin them around like I have tongs built in.
00:09:08
So the other thing is like me trying to use tongs is like you trying to use tongs to open tongs. You know what I'm
00:09:16
saying? So I I'm just using the tongs. >> Is that a dumb question or is that a
00:09:20
reasonable question? >> No, that's a good question. In fact, uh like tongues is my number one enemy. So
00:09:25
I never try to use tongs. >> Yeah. What else can't you do? >> Um
00:09:29
>> is there many things that you can think of that you just are unable to do?
00:09:33
>> I believe I can do everything. And that's part of uh being able to succeed
00:09:39
in a lot of things is you first got to believe you can do it and then if you believe you can do it, you can do it.
00:09:46
>> Man, this is going to be a great chat. There's so much to discuss >> and unpack here. Yeah. Uh, first of all,
00:09:52
who were you before December 2010? >> Uh, I was a power line worker. Uh, I was
00:09:59
a person that loves sports, uh, specifically basketball and football. And, uh, I also, uh, had a degree in
00:10:08
broadcast journalism. And so, I was a video editor. And all these things had hands, uh, and involve hands. And so
00:10:16
when I got when I lost my hands, I felt like I lost a sense of my identity. And uh I think that's the difficult part
00:10:24
about it. The the mental um toughness to say I am that same person. It's just I have to do things
00:10:32
differently. Yeah. >> In a in a sense, did that feel like a death? Like an identity death?
00:10:40
>> Yeah. for uh a while it was like I I thought I'm no longer that person that
00:10:47
can help other people and I'm the one that's depending on everyone else's
00:10:52
help. And for a while it was an identity death, but I think >> part of recovery is like trying all
00:11:01
those things that you used to love and figuring out how to do them. Like I still play basketball now. uh every
00:11:08
weekend I'm playing and then when it gets to winter time I play about three times a week. So I think when a person
00:11:17
gets in the accident they they think their identity may be gone but uh I would argue that they are the still the
00:11:25
same person and who they are is exist inside their brain and inside their heart.
00:11:31
Any accident doesn't change that until you you're dead and then your identity
00:11:37
is gone for real. >> Yeah, that that's a great lesson. And and you can you can create a new
00:11:42
identity at any time. >> That's true. Uh I think part of being resilient is the idea that you can
00:11:50
create a new identity any time. Um you can also uh look at life in a positive way and then figure out uh how that new
00:12:00
identity will be. Yeah. >> Which is like the idea behind the YouTube channel and um creating
00:12:09
something that gives back to the world. Yeah. >> So December 13, 2010, that's when the
00:12:16
accident happened. Um it's actually 15 15 years ago this week that we're
00:12:21
recording it. >> Yeah. >> Um does the date mean anything to you? >> Yeah. Uh in the burn community or the
00:12:28
burn survivor community, we call it a burniversary and it's kind of like uh it
00:12:34
sounds uh like why would you celebrate uh your date you got burned? I think uh another way to look at it is um uh
00:12:47
reborn day >> like the day you were reborn cuz when you are a burn survivor you have to
00:12:55
create a new identity and become a new person uh often. So uh I think I celebrate it now. Back in the beginning,
00:13:05
it was like, "Oh, that's that day is terrible." But uh now I'm like, "Yeah,
00:13:11
that's the day I was uh born again and and become a new person, you know."
00:13:18
>> Yes. So that day, December 13, 2010, you're in Colorado. You're working on
00:13:22
power lines in a small farming town. >> What's the last thing you remember
00:13:26
before everything changed? >> Uh I just was remembering the last thing I looked down.
00:13:33
uh to throw the piece of wire that I cut and my boss was down there. And so I decided I'm going to turn around and
00:13:41
throw it behind me. And so to me, it symbolizes that I was always thinking of other people. Like if I was thinking of
00:13:49
myself, I just thrown that piece of wire on his head. But uh uh for me to come up
00:13:56
with a YouTube channel to try to help other people, that's who I am. like who
00:14:01
I am, my identity actually was uh service, serving others and helping other people.
00:14:08
>> Yeah. >> So, the shock you black out so you don't remember anything, you don't feel
00:14:13
anything. You're just going by what you've been told by third-hand accounts.
00:14:16
>> Yeah. Uh I it the shock knocked me out and also I was not breathing. Uh my
00:14:23
supervisor lowered me down from the the bucket, the cherry picker. I don't know
00:14:28
how you call it here. Um, and then he did chest compressions to start my heart again and uh start me breathing. But all
00:14:37
this whole time I didn't come to to consciousness until they were carrying me on a stretcher to the helicopter. And
00:14:45
I remember waking up and I could hear a helicopter and I thought I was waking up
00:14:49
to start the day and uh and then all of a sudden I felt my hands burning and they were asking uh what's your name?
00:14:58
What's your address? And I kept repeating my name and address and then I would ask at the end like why are my
00:15:04
hands burning? And so it didn't I didn't they knocked me out again medically and
00:15:11
then uh I woke up and I was in the hospital. >> Yeah. >> So people that were there that day, um
00:15:19
the people that called the first responders, the people that gave you CPR, have you had conversations with them?
00:15:25
What have they said about it? Did they think you were going to make it? Uh, I haven't talked to them, but uh, I know I
00:15:31
went through that small town and I think everyone in the town knows that story and I stopped in a gas station and I was
00:15:39
buying something and there was this old tough cowboy that was uh, he was looking
00:15:44
at me and it turned out to be that he was the uncle of the lady I was renting a room from. And uh he just to see me he
00:15:54
was crying cuz he thought I was going to be a goner. Like you see a tough old man
00:15:59
like that crying it's like they don't do that very often. And so yeah. >> Yeah. That's so impactful.
00:16:06
>> Yeah. >> So so so when you're drifting in and out of consciousness in the helicopter like
00:16:12
what are you are you in pain or are you just confused bewildered? >> Yeah. No I'm uh I'm in pain. Uh so
00:16:20
there's a thing it's called phantom pain and your nervous system uh even though
00:16:25
the the parts are cut off it's it's feeling the burning sensation and it's
00:16:32
sending a signal to the brain that oh your hands are burning and so I was feeling that it felt like my hands were
00:16:39
being burned and it felt a little bit electrical. Um so yeah. >> What did your hands look like? Uh they
00:16:48
were still there, but uh I always equated to, you know, a hot dog that you leave in the microwave, it gets pretty
00:16:57
fat. And uh my hands were um swollen. >> And then they had little holes. Well,
00:17:04
they weren't little, they were big holes where the entry wound was and the exit
00:17:08
wound. Yeah. >> What did the paramedics paramedics tell you? Uh they at the time when they were
00:17:16
taking me on the helicopter, they didn't tell me anything. They wanted to keep me
00:17:21
out of shock. And so it's when I get to the hospital that they inject um a die
00:17:28
inside my bloodstream to make sure that blood is flowing down to the hands. And then the doctor was at that time saying,
00:17:36
"Well, we need to see if blood's flowing down there. If it is, then we could save
00:17:40
your hands." Uh and then uh I was in there on a Monday and by Friday they were saying the blood wasn't flowing and
00:17:48
we're going to take you down to the operation room and we need to amputate your hands. But they they gave the
00:17:54
choice to me like do you want to try to keep your hands and risk gang green and and die or do you want to Yeah. Doesn't
00:18:02
seem like much of a choice. Uh or have your hands amputated. They want to make you sound like you're choosing. Yeah.
00:18:11
Yeah, I've had um a woman on the podcast called um Sharon Shaz Dag and uh she she
00:18:18
lost um lost an arm in a in a storm. She's on a farm. It was a very stormy night. She went out to check on the
00:18:23
animals and then a sheet of corrugated iron flew off um off one of the um one of the animals shelters and it ended up
00:18:29
like slicing her arm and they gave her the same option. Do you want to keep it or do you want to lose it? and she she
00:18:35
went to keep it and then for the next year and a half it was just kind of it was kind of useless and it wasn't doing
00:18:40
and in in the end she made the decision herself just to amputate it. >> Yeah.
00:18:44
>> So they had saved it successfully but it just wasn't functioning and if anything
00:18:47
it was like holding her back. >> Um >> I can't imagine how impossibly difficult
00:18:52
it is for a human to to make that decision. >> Mhm. Yeah. Uh I think for me I'm like a
00:18:59
different kind of person where I make decisions and uh the impact doesn't hit
00:19:04
me till later and so >> impulsive we call it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh I think the impact hit me
00:19:10
when I got home from the hospital. So, I stayed in the hospital in Colorado for one month and then I went to Utah to get
00:19:18
closer to home and I stayed there for a month and a half. And it wasn't until I
00:19:22
got home that I said, "Oh man, this is going to be hard." And I remember being
00:19:27
depressed, so depressed that I slept the whole first week uh at home not knowing
00:19:34
what to do, you know. Uh, and I think the most important thing was that I got a hold of another person that was a
00:19:42
double hand amputee and and I was able to ask him questions. Once I I found out how to do certain things, then I was
00:19:50
like on the road to recovery. Yeah. >> Did you ever feel like you were going to
00:19:55
die? Like you knew that your your hands were um a touchandgo situation, but did you ever feel like your life was in the
00:20:01
balance? Uh I think my life the only time my life was in the balance was when I was in the bucket and not breathing.
00:20:09
And uh at the time I wasn't able I wasn't thinking cuz I was knocked out
00:20:13
you know I was unconscious. So uh during the recovery I never felt like I was going to die. No.
00:20:20
>> Yeah. So, you're in hospital and they they do what they can to save your hands
00:20:24
and then um you've got to make the Well, I was going to say an impossibly difficult decision, but it sounds like
00:20:28
they they gave you the pros and cons and it seems like it's a no-brainer. >> Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:33
>> But then, so then you go into surgery. What's that like wake waking up um like
00:20:38
a different person to what you were before? Uh again, it didn't hit me while I was in
00:20:44
the hospital because I always had the the you know, you're always sitting there in the hospital bed and there's
00:20:52
always this button that you can push and there's a person that's getting paid to
00:20:56
come take care of you. You know, there's always that safety switch. And so it
00:21:00
doesn't hit me until I get home that I'm going to have to take care of myself
00:21:05
without any prosthetics. Um, and I think the hardest part was like the first time
00:21:11
I went to the bathroom, my mom was still alive and I had to ask her to to wipe my
00:21:17
bottom. And it to have your mother wiping your bottom at the age of 34. It's like, oh man, this sucks. Uh, I
00:21:27
need to learn how to do it so that she doesn't have to do it cuz she already
00:21:31
did it when I was a little baby, you know? >> And so yeah, that the hard part came
00:21:36
when I got home. Yep. >> Yeah. I just can't imagine that. Like I'm um I feel like you and I are similar
00:21:46
in the respect that we're both fiercely independent individuals. >> So just losing that um independence and
00:21:51
um relying on others to do the most, you know, basic human requirements. Was that rock bottom?
00:21:57
>> That was rock bottom. I didn't want to get up. I didn't want to do anything.
00:22:03
The only thing that helped me, I mean, there was lots of things that helped me, but one of the things that helped me is
00:22:09
I would because I was sleeping all day, I would wake up at nighttime and I would
00:22:14
turn on the TV and there was this show. It's called Wipeout and >> Oh, yeah. With the big red balls.
00:22:20
>> Yeah. The big red balls and people just getting plastered. And I that helped me
00:22:24
cuz I was laughing like watching all these people getting plastered. Yep. I suppose like some light escapism like
00:22:35
that, it just gets you out of your own head space. Gets gets you out of your own feelings.
00:22:39
>> Yeah, 100%. >> Okay. So, your brother, this is the crazy story. So, your brother Fatu
00:22:44
>> Yeah. Fatu. Yeah. >> Fatu. Yeah. He he he also lost a hand in a similar sort of accident.
00:22:49
>> Yeah. He he's also a lineman and he was climbing on a pole and uh electricity
00:22:56
has a direction. It has it's like traffic. there's a flow. And uh he went
00:23:02
up the pole and the city gave him a map and it showed the electricity going one way when it was actually going the other
00:23:10
way. And so the wire that he thought was energized was deenergized and the one that he thought was deenergized was
00:23:19
energized. And so he sustained a a burn from 7200 volts. and uh his pole partner
00:23:26
tried to save him. Uh knocked the wire off of him and then the wire came down and hit his pole partner and actually
00:23:34
killed his pole partner. And so he he lost his arm, but he also lost his pole partner. And so there's a lot of like
00:23:44
survivors guilt and and stuff in in that situation. Yeah. So when you're in hospital, um, he
00:23:52
decides, by the way, what year did he lose? What year did that happen to him? >> 2008,
00:23:57
>> right? So two years before you. >> Y. >> So here he is. He's just getting getting
00:24:01
to grips with the, I suppose, the dayto-day of um, you losing a hand and then it happens to his brother. Um, only
00:24:07
twice as bad. >> Um, he he graciously skips Christmas with his own family to join you in
00:24:13
hospital. >> Um, yeah. What did his presence mean to you in those early days? Uh, it meant a
00:24:19
lot to be having family there. Um, because without him there, I mean, I have an uncle and aunt that lived in
00:24:26
Colorado, but just it's it means a lot more when it's your your sibling. Like I
00:24:34
grew up with him and and he grew up with me and we always went on adventures together. And also like
00:24:41
>> not only did he lose his arm, but he's also working in the same field as me.
00:24:46
And so we had a lot in common to talk about like linemen, power lines, um, growing up together. And so it felt like
00:24:56
I was being supported in the best way possible with him there. >> Yeah. What could he what could he offer
00:25:04
you like in terms of um, you know, going beyond moral support and brotherly love?
00:25:09
>> Mhm. He he kind of like put out a map. It's going to be hard. He kept telling
00:25:15
me it's going to be hard and uh that like braces me for the impact. It's like
00:25:21
when you're going to get in a accident, if somebody told you you're going to hit
00:25:26
a car, then you're going to brace for impact before you get hit. Um and so that's part of what he he brings to me.
00:25:34
And then also like the humor. >> Uh him and I, we have the kind of the same sense of humor, this kind of
00:25:40
slapstick humor. Um, and so he's able to make me laugh during the the time I was
00:25:46
in the hospital at that Christmas time. >> You know, I believe there was an
00:25:50
incident when you were discharged from hospital and you're flying home and he
00:25:54
feeds you on the plane. >> Oh, yeah. He was uh it was funny because I still had these wound vacuums on my
00:26:01
arms and so I look like a mess. And uh we go to get a hamburger and at McDonald's and he's sitting there
00:26:10
feeding me and I'm we're laughing at because of the the >> the ridiculous. Yeah. The
00:26:15
ridiculousness. Exactly. >> I'm trying to put myself in your position every sort of first like that. So you
00:26:24
you you get discharged from hospital, you've got these these bandages on and
00:26:28
these these arms with nothing on the end where for the past 35 years of your life
00:26:32
there's been things on the end that you can use every every time you encounter something
00:26:36
news a new it's just a reminder of um of of what you had that you no longer have
00:26:42
like how do you process that sort of grief? >> Uh I think there's a certain way to look at it. You
00:26:49
can either look at it uh looking back at the past and looking back at the past usually brings depression. But if you
00:26:58
look in the present or live in the present and be in the present moment, you're not thinking about what you used
00:27:06
to have, but you're thinking about what you're going to do to get through that
00:27:10
situation. And so the best way to live life is to be in the present. Cuz you can be in the past and be depressed and
00:27:18
think about what you used to have. You can also live in the future and be anxious about what's going to happen.
00:27:24
But if you stay in the present moment, uh you won't be depressed or an anxious,
00:27:31
you'll be looking at the opportunities that are presented right before you at
00:27:35
that moment. So I have an opportunity to learn something every single day that I
00:27:39
encounter something new. And uh I also have the opportunity to teach someone else that that's that's how I come up
00:27:47
with the YouTube channel is I'm looking at these things and hey, how do you do
00:27:53
this? Okay, I'm going to put it on YouTube and I'm going to help the next
00:27:57
person that comes along. >> I don't know if there there will be like a better takeaway than that from this
00:28:02
episode. I I love that so much. So >> depression's caused by thinking about or
00:28:07
wishing things were different than what they were. >> Yeah. Anxiety is caused by worrying
00:28:11
about what's ahead. >> Yeah. >> Did you always have that mindset or is
00:28:14
this something that you developed out of necessity? >> Um, so the journey that I learned that
00:28:20
along the journey and it's because you know I went to a psychologist. I went to
00:28:28
uh group meetings for burn survivors and um all these things that I I've done
00:28:34
taught me that. And so, um, I think that a lot of times people get in a situation
00:28:40
like this or a traumatic situation and they don't do anything. And doing nothing, uh, you're not going to
00:28:48
progress. It's when you get out of your comfort zone, uh, and do work, that's
00:28:54
when you're going to learn these things. You know, a lot of people just feel so
00:28:59
helpless that they do nothing. >> It's like a cheesy lot. Do you know the
00:29:03
movie The Shaw Shank Redemption? Yeah. >> Yeah. There's a cheesy line on that. Get
00:29:07
busy living or get busy dying. Exactly. >> And um and grief in whatever form it
00:29:11
looks like, whether it's mourning body parts or mourning a loved one. It just
00:29:14
it can consume you and make your world so small. Yeah. >> Um and the best thing you can do for
00:29:19
yourself and the people around you is to is to fight that. >> Yeah. >> Make your world big again.
00:29:24
>> I think uh it's the tendency to just think about me me. Uh, and so when you
00:29:31
start thinking about me me, then yeah, your world shrinks down to Oh, shoot. >> That's all right. No big deal.
00:29:40
>> Yeah. So, you you think about me me and your your world shrinks down to just
00:29:45
yourself and then uh then you become depressed and and then you you're helpless. Yeah.
00:29:53
>> Can you remember the first time you laughed again or smiled again? Well, I I I'm I'm a laugher. I laugh a
00:30:00
lot. My brother, he he's uh he's good at making me laugh, too. And so, it was in
00:30:06
the hospital. Um in fact, uh I come out of the hospital. I'm a big fan of uh NFL
00:30:13
football, which is like the American football. >> Oh, yeah. We know, mate. That's what
00:30:18
that's what that's what the the Kelsey brothers play. >> Oh, yeah. We know brothers. Yeah. Uh,
00:30:24
and uh, I remember my team, which is the Raiders, uh, they played Denver, which is where I was being operated on. And,
00:30:35
uh, my first post off uh, on Facebook was I was doing the touchdowns symbol, but with no hands. And I was like, "The
00:30:44
Raiders beat the Denver Broncos." And it was funny cuz um I was kind of talking trash is like
00:30:51
one of my other things that I do. So I was talking trash for to all the Denver fans without hands and also like
00:30:58
everybody that was looking on Facebook was like is he playing a joke? Is he serious? They don't know what is
00:31:04
happening. So uh yeah that was the first time I laughed. Uh pretty much. Yep. >> I love that. Yes. It sounds like humor
00:31:12
has been a huge sort of I guess coping mechanism. >> Yeah. Uh yeah, if you can look at a
00:31:18
situation and find something to smile about, it helps a lot and it's able I I
00:31:24
mean I've done studies on resilience and part of like motivational speaking is
00:31:29
talking about resilience and one of the things that helps a person's resilience
00:31:34
is to be able to laugh. >> Uh like it brings um >> endorphins inside your body that help
00:31:41
you uh be able to overcome difficult things. Yeah, >> there's a saying which you may or may
00:31:47
not have heard of, the one that um comparison is the theft of joy. >> Oh yeah, definitely.
00:31:52
>> Which is true, but I've also found on the counter side of that um if you
00:31:56
compare down, you don't have to look that hard to find someone that is a lot
00:32:00
happier with a lot less. >> Oh yeah, have you sort of found that from like groups you've spoken to or
00:32:05
support groups and >> Yeah. I um what my first time there's this conference it's called World Burn
00:32:13
Congress and it's put on by Phoenix Society and it's like people from all
00:32:17
over the world that have been burned. Uh they come to meet and I remember my first time going there and I was looking
00:32:23
at uh everyone and there were people there. I was like I don't know how I could smile and I see them smiling and I
00:32:30
was like if I if they can smile I can smile too. Yeah. Did you ever get depression?
00:32:40
>> Yeah, that that first week I was definitely depressed. Um, I think like
00:32:46
you said, I'm a person that's independent. I love to be able to go and travel uh by myself, not depend on
00:32:55
anyone. And I found myself in a situation that was like and I was found myself thinking about I will always need
00:33:03
someone to help me be a caretaker. And that thought was just uh tremendously depressing.
00:33:10
>> Yeah. >> How and how long before you got the um the mechanical mechanical hands the the
00:33:15
new ones? Uh so I was in the hospital um from December to February and January like the second week of January the man
00:33:28
was there the prostatist uh he was there fitting me for prosthetic arms and then like a week
00:33:36
later he brought me prosthetic arms. At the time, I didn't accept them. Like, I
00:33:41
was dealing with a work injury and the insurance was bringing me these arms that didn't look like hands, didn't feel
00:33:49
like hands, didn't when I touch something, I didn't feel it. And so, I was not accepting it. I was like, "No,
00:33:56
those aren't those are not acceptable." >> Uh, I think >> Go away. Go get some uh something else.
00:34:03
>> More realistic. >> Go find the Luke Skywalker and bring those arms back to me. Yeah. So, uh I
00:34:10
think part of overcoming such a difficult thing is acceptance, >> accepting the situation you're in,
00:34:17
accepting the tools that are being used currently at the time uh to do things. And so once I accepted these arms, I
00:34:28
started uh progressing really fast. >> Yeah. So that piece of the rehab um like
00:34:36
getting used to these things and train I guess training them if that's what you
00:34:40
call it. What did that look like? >> That must have been impossibly difficult
00:34:44
at times. >> There it you learn patience because you're dropping things on your lap and
00:34:50
it's almost like the the comparison I make is like you're being born again.
00:34:56
You're a little baby and you got these little hands, but we don't remember that
00:35:00
part. We did have to learn how to use hands, right? uh except for now I'm getting these new hands and I'm teaching
00:35:07
myself to pick up things and dropping things on the floor. The only difference is I can remember it now and so that's
00:35:14
what makes it frustrating. >> What was the hardest thing to retrain yourself to do?
00:35:18
>> Uh I think the hardest thing was for me is tying a a neck tie. Um >> Oh man, I can't even do that now.
00:35:29
>> Yeah. So >> I'm a t-shirt guy as well. I avoid those things. Can you do it though?
00:35:34
>> Yeah, I can. I can tie a necktie. Um, and the other thing is like I would
00:35:39
force myself to do hard things. And so the occupational therapist is like, "Do
00:35:46
what do you want to do?" And I'm like, "I want to tie a neck tie." And so we
00:35:49
struggled through the necktie thing for days and days and days. And uh she's
00:35:56
like, "Why don't you just use a zipper tie?" And I'm like, "Cuz I don't have a
00:35:59
zipper tie and I don't want to. I want to learn how to tie the tie. But it's
00:36:03
funny now, I just wear zipper ties. I just wanted to do it because I wanted to show myself that you can still do those
00:36:11
things. You're not that part of the world isn't shut off for you. >> I think that speaks volumes about your
00:36:17
mindset and the sort of person you are. And I I've I've had a lot of like
00:36:21
incredible people on the podcast that um would not have described themselves as like resilient or strong or courageous
00:36:27
before the incident happened in their lives. And then there's people that just
00:36:31
had it all along and they just sort of bounced through these adversities. I feel like you're in the latter group.
00:36:36
>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I've had a difficult um upbringing. Like when when I was in the
00:36:43
situation, what I did is I looked at all the hard situations that I went through.
00:36:48
Like we grew up poor. I used to work as a little kid with my dad and uh you know
00:36:55
my dad he he used corporal punishment. We got spanked. We got all those things. And I still managed to graduate from
00:37:04
high school, graduate from college. Uh I went through a divorce, which was super
00:37:09
hard. And I told myself, if I can do all those things, I can do this thing. And uh yeah, that's that's the thing that
00:37:16
helps me the most. >> Yeah. Well, when was the marriage breakup? Was that before 2010 or?
00:37:22
>> Yeah, that was 2007. >> Right. Right. Are you seeing anyone now? >> Yeah, I'm dating a girl. Yeah.
00:37:29
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How did How did you meet? >> We met online on one of those dating
00:37:34
apps, >> right? What do you Yeah. What do you say? I'm curious. What like What do you
00:37:38
say on your your dating profile? Um um >> I take well I definitely I show pictures
00:37:44
of myself and I also am straightforward and say I lost my hands in this thing but I also point out the the positive
00:37:51
part because the if you don't point out the positive part then uh I think that's
00:37:58
the first thing that sticks in their mind. So I point out that you know I lost my hands and uh because of it I
00:38:07
I've shown my resilience and uh that's what I do is I go around and speak about
00:38:13
it and so I point out the positives of it not just the negatives. >> Yeah.
00:38:21
>> I've got so many questions about that. I don't know what Yeah. Intimacy. Do do
00:38:26
you comfortable talking about that or not really? Yeah, I can talk about intimacy like uh uh I don't know
00:38:34
um like what level of intimacy like I've kissed her uh and I think it's difficult
00:38:41
because you're always comparing yourself like oh another guy could just put his
00:38:47
hand on the lady's back or >> on the lady's chin and uh I think it
00:38:53
involves a lot of communication like is it okay if I touch your leg if or touch your back or this or that. And sometimes
00:39:02
it's involves me just taking off my arms. I think being patient is one thing
00:39:08
like uh usually when I was younger is just make out and do do the thing real fast,
00:39:16
but uh you have to take your time now. Sometimes that can be romantic for a woman.
00:39:22
>> Who would have thought? Who would have thought? Um, oh, thanks for sharing
00:39:27
that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's really cool. She must get a lot of questions, too, from her
00:39:31
girlfriends or from her family. >> I bet I She doesn't tell them to me.
00:39:36
Well, maybe she does. I'm not very good at listening, I guess. But, uh, I'm sure
00:39:41
she gets a lot of questions about like how's he going to take care of himself
00:39:45
or this or that. And I think >> take care of himself in what in what way? uh like when he gets older or or how's
00:39:54
he gonna take care of you like it's a lot of times uh in society men are expected to take care of women
00:40:01
financially >> and uh I think she just focuses on the positives. Yeah, >> that's
00:40:09
>> maybe that's something I should talk to her about. >> Yeah. Oh, potentially. Yeah.
00:40:12
Communication. Communication. Um I've heard you say it felt like the walls were closing in when you returned home.
00:40:18
>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Can you elaborate on that? >> So when what I meant by the walls were
00:40:24
it felt like the walls were closing in was like I was being restrained uh and no longer able to go out into the
00:40:35
world. Like currently I find myself in New Zealand but at the moment it was like I no longer can leave my house at
00:40:44
that moment. Uh, so I think that's what it it felt like. >> Yeah. I was no longer able to have
00:40:52
freedom to roam around and and do everything. >> But you've pretty much got that back now
00:40:59
15 years on. >> Yeah, I can do pretty much everything and travel and go fishing and we're
00:41:05
going fishing out in the ocean. So, uh, I can do pretty much everything. >> Do Do you need a rod or can you just
00:41:11
like put a bit of bit of bait on the end of the >> Oh, yeah. throw my arms out there.
00:41:17
>> Um, what about um, uh, post-traumatic stress disorder or Yeah. or nightmares,
00:41:24
anything like that? >> So, um, I have never had post-traumatic stress disorder, but I had post-traumatic
00:41:34
stress depression. >> Uh, I think, um, because electricity, you can't really see it. Uh and and also
00:41:43
that it knocked me out. So uh I didn't experience it almost it's almost if it
00:41:50
happened as if I'm was asleep. Uh but I did when I got home I did notice that
00:41:58
whenever my sister was cooking meat uh my my stomach it got uh nauseated. So, uh, my stomach got sick and that told me
00:42:07
like my brain does remember smelling cooked flesh and uh, I wasn't trying to
00:42:15
eat any cooked flesh at the time, any cooked meat. Um, because it just made my stomach nausea nauseous. Uh, and um,
00:42:27
>> just the brain knows, eh? >> Yeah. So, here's another thing. Uh
00:42:31
there's a thing called post-traumatic stress disorder, but there's also post-traumatic stress growth, and we
00:42:38
talk about it a lot. When something we talk about a lot at the hospital, when something bad happens to someone, you
00:42:46
can have post-traumatic stress disorder, but also there is an opportunity for post-traumatic stress growth. uh where a
00:42:56
person can learn how to do new things like navigate this world without hands or learn how to communicate better or
00:43:05
learn how to have patience. Um because they're thrown in a situation that is
00:43:11
way outside of their comfort zone. Uh I don't know uh if your listeners have
00:43:17
been in an uncomfortable situation, but there is no growth that takes place inside of your comfort zone. There only
00:43:26
outside of your comfort zone can a person grow. So yeah, >> I actually recorded a podcast earlier
00:43:35
this week with um a woman who was a psychologist for the New Zealand SAS SAS, which is like our Marines or Navy
00:43:41
Seals, >> excuse me. She wrote a book called The Resilience Toolkit. And uh in it, she
00:43:47
sort of said exactly what you said. She said, you know, people talk about bouncing back um but she talks about
00:43:53
bouncing forward. She's like instead of just striving to get get back to where
00:43:57
you were before, like why not strive to be better? >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Which is kind of in a way what you just
00:44:03
said I think. >> Yep. Exactly. Uh a lot of times people are like woe is me. M um but I think what I've learned
00:44:13
is like instead of say woe is me, oh look at the opportunity I have to do such and such a
00:44:21
thing or uh speak to these people and share my story so that if they have something traumatic happen to them, they
00:44:29
can be inspired or uh learn from my story. So yeah, I think that's that's
00:44:36
100% of what what I just Yeah, we just said it in a different way. >> Yeah. And wo is me is is um perfectly
00:44:43
fine. Like you can you you know if you're a victim, you're entitled to play
00:44:47
the victim. But how do you you're not doing yourself any favors by by remaining in that space? But how someone
00:44:54
that has that sort of victim mindset or that victim mentality, how can they snap
00:44:58
out of it and move on? Um, I think it's it's a choice. Like you do have a
00:45:04
certain amount of time to be sad about a thing. Uh, but if they choose to stay in
00:45:10
that place, then that's on them. >> I think that uh instead of looking at
00:45:17
the why me, why is this happening to me? Uh, one thing that can help and one thing that helped me is look at how you
00:45:27
can help other people. If you can figure out how to help other people, then it gets uh the focus off of you and then it
00:45:35
starts focusing on other people and then you find out, oh wow, look uh life is not so bad if you can find a way to help
00:45:43
other people. >> When you dream now, do you do you have do you have hands or you have the um
00:45:49
prosthetics? >> Uh immediately after um when I was released from the hospital, I did dream with hands. Um,
00:45:59
but it's funny cuz I don't remember very many of my dreams, >> but when I do dream, I don't even notice
00:46:06
my hands. So, that's that's pretty wild to think about. Yeah, cuz I had a um a tetroplegic on
00:46:16
the podcast um and he read some um psychological studies and he said when you um when he reached the point that he
00:46:23
that he dreamed his life as the reality is um according to the psychologist that
00:46:28
means he'd accepted it. >> Oh, that's pretty interesting. >> That is pretty interesting. Yeah.
00:46:34
>> Yeah. >> Um who is Jason Koger? >> Jason Koger, he's my mentor. So when I
00:46:40
was uh coming out of the hospital, I felt like I was alone. I was the only double hand amputee. It felt like I was
00:46:49
a pioneer because no one put any videos out online. No one put any resources out
00:46:55
there. And so I was like, I'm the only one. Uh, however, I was able to talk about it on my Facebook or on my social
00:47:04
media and uh, people reached out to me and said, "Hey, you want me to put you
00:47:09
in contact with a guy that's almost the same level of amputations?" I was like,
00:47:14
"Yeah, I do. I accept that." And uh, that was Jason Koger that he they put me
00:47:20
in contact with. And I called him on the phone and he was like, "Hey, this is how
00:47:26
you do this. This is how you do that." He explained to me how to do a couple
00:47:29
things and then he even like you can come over to my house and live with me for a week and then find out how I do
00:47:35
things. I was like wow what a nice guy uh to uh you know share his whole life with me. Uh at the time I was like uh no
00:47:46
that's okay. I don't like I don't even know you man. But but I I am so grateful for encountering
00:47:54
Jason Koger because he helped me so much. And like every time we meet, it's like we're two peas in a pod. We laugh
00:48:01
and and have a good time. >> In hindsight, is that the first time you felt truly truly understood?
00:48:09
>> Yeah. uh like I my brother understands me to a certain level but he doesn't
00:48:16
have he still has one hand that he can use and so when I was able to talk to Jason I was like oh this guy knows
00:48:23
exactly what I'm going to go through. Yeah. >> And those first few outings
00:48:29
what are they like? Are you super self-conscious? Are you aware that people are steering?
00:48:34
>> No. Actually, what I was when I first went to the grocery store with my mom
00:48:39
and sister, I was like worried about how long this is taking. And uh I think for
00:48:47
me to do something efficiently and go in the grocery store, get done, go home. That's what was what mattered to me at
00:48:56
that time. And I was this is like a like a man's style of thinking. uh get it
00:49:04
done and go home. But it was taking so long. I was like, "Man, this is taking
00:49:08
too long." And I just was mad after that and I wanted to go home. Yeah. >> Oh, bro. I I can relate. I'm like, I'm
00:49:15
so impatient. >> Yeah. >> That would be the thing that annoys the crap out of me.
00:49:19
>> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. How long How long did it take until you felt completely confident to
00:49:24
leave the house again? And um so after I talked to Jason and I started to figure
00:49:29
out how to do things, uh people were still contacting me about something I used to do, which was go do
00:49:38
video and edit video and they were contacting me to go shoot a rugby game that was in San Diego. And so that was
00:49:49
in March. So from February to March, I felt confident enough to fly on an airplane, rent a car, go shoot this
00:49:57
these guys rugby game and edit it. So it was pretty fast. >> So March 2011, so 3 months after the
00:50:04
Wow. Okay. >> Mhm. >> Jeez. >> I sort of imagine you sitting at home
00:50:10
watching Wipe Out in the middle of the night for like a couple of years. Wow. >> It was just a week that I was watching
00:50:16
Wipe Out. Yeah, >> bro. This is so a week. Yeah, >> this is so inspiring.
00:50:20
>> Yeah, >> that's really cool. >> Thank you. >> [ __ ] Are you proud of yourself?
00:50:24
>> Oh, yeah. Uh, the more I look at what happened from from now to then, the more
00:50:32
prouder I get of myself. Yeah. >> Yeah. Can you believe it? >> No. It seems unreal. Like when I when I
00:50:39
was coming to New Zealand, I was like, "This is crazy." Um, it's like my
00:50:44
15-year anniversary of my amputations and here I am going to New Zealand. Like, I never would have imagined that
00:50:53
from the hospital bed. Never. Ever. >> When you do something like board a plane
00:50:59
and there's like, you know, hundreds of people around you, but are you aware
00:51:03
that people are looking or are people are people not really looking? >> It depends. Like I think when I get in
00:51:11
that headsp space where I'm worried about what people are thinking, it's
00:51:15
like now you're looking at everyone and going, you're throwing knives with your
00:51:20
eyeballs. Stop staring at me. I think when I'm in the head space of I don't
00:51:25
care what other people think. >> That's the more healthier head space to
00:51:30
be in. Like >> the it it doesn't matter what everyone else is thinking. um what everyone else
00:51:38
is thinking is their own business, you know, so just mind your own business. Uh you just worry about what you got to do.
00:51:47
You know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what you're
00:51:49
saying. I love that. And you ended up um on the the Jumbotron, the Giant screen at an NBA game.
00:51:54
>> Yeah. >> Utah Jazz. >> Yeah, that was one of the um moments
00:51:59
like Utah Jazz. I was watching the Utah Jazz and I had actually worked in the Jumbotron office and so people in the
00:52:06
Jumbotron knew me. Um, and I posted that I'm going to a game and they were able
00:52:12
to find me in the audience and saw me cheering for the Jazz and I was on the Jumbotron and it made me feel like, oh,
00:52:20
this feels good. This feels like what it used to feel like. And that's what helped me to continue going. Like it's
00:52:27
when you focus on what's good that's happening in your life that you're going
00:52:31
to repeat the thing and then you'll find out. Uh my psychologist explained it
00:52:37
like this. If you get in um this it's kind of shaped like an hourglass. If you
00:52:45
start getting depressed, it's just going to take you down further and further and
00:52:49
further. But the inverse can happen. If you if something good happens and makes you feel good, you're going to keep
00:52:56
doing more things that make you feel better and better and it spirals upwards. So, it's like a hurricane that
00:53:04
takes you upward. >> So, you can either choose to go down in the bottom or you can choose to go up.
00:53:10
>> Did Did you Yeah. You mentioned a psychologist then. Did you have much therapy? Yeah, I I used to meet with the
00:53:16
the psychologist every week and I also would go to group meeting for burn survivors and uh that helped me out a
00:53:24
lot. I think one thing that I had to be willing to do is try new things. And for me, a psychologist was
00:53:33
like, I don't want no psychologist getting inside my head. But at the moment I was like I I'm I'm willing to
00:53:41
try anything to get better, you know? And so that's that's what happened is
00:53:46
like I'm willing to try anything. Go ahead, do it. And then see what happens.
00:53:50
>> Yeah. Is is there anything in life that's better now than what it was
00:53:54
beforehand, physically or mentally? >> It's it's crazy cuz I'm going to talk
00:53:59
about basketball right now. Like basketball when I had hands, I was really good. like I could drive in
00:54:06
between five guys, dribble behind my back, do this all kinds of stuff. Uh double pump and and uh even at one time
00:54:15
in my life, I could dunk it. And basketball was enjoyable then, but I find that basketball now is more
00:54:24
enjoyable in a mental way. like uh being able to score baskets with no hands is challenging. And it's challenging in a
00:54:36
way that feels like, oh, you did actually you did better than you would have with hands because
00:54:45
the overcoming the mental obstacle. And so it's like more fruitful or more um
00:54:53
more of uh >> uh you feel like you accomplished more. >> More rewarding.
00:55:02
>> Yeah, rewarding is the word I was searching for. >> And have I got my the internet may have
00:55:06
steered me wrong. Um but did you audition for Hawaii 5 for >> Oh, no. That's uh I did audition for
00:55:14
Hawaii 5. And it's funny cuz Jason Koker also auditioned for Hawaii 5. >> So the character was um a hand double of
00:55:22
um of a bad guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Guess who got that? >> Who? >> Jason.
00:55:27
>> Oh, did he? Yeah. >> Did he? >> Jason got that job. Yeah. >> How did they decide what what what set
00:55:32
him apart from you? So what happened was is Jason is is a is a Caucasian guy and
00:55:38
the bad guy is Caucasian and they looked at my arms and they were like we can't
00:55:42
have a tan arms on a Caucasian guy. So I didn't get that part but I did get a
00:55:48
couple of other parts in other TV shows and it's always like a dead Hispanic guy
00:55:53
that lost his arms. >> So only non-speaking roles until >> just a dead guy in the background. Yeah.
00:56:02
>> Yeah. Oh wow. What a good experience though. >> Yeah. Yeah. I was on American Horror
00:56:06
Story, one of them is uh and I'm laying there as a dead guy and the camera just
00:56:10
goes right in front of me. It was it was pretty awesome. >> Wow. >> Yeah.
00:56:14
>> Um and the social media stuff. Yeah. Was it was that a difficult decision to
00:56:20
share or No, like you mentioned before you had a background in video editing and stuff, so I I guess in a way it was
00:56:26
like a natural transition. >> Yeah. I feel like um social media was not hard for me to do cuz I like to, you
00:56:34
know, live my life in front of everyone cuz I don't have anything to hide. But
00:56:39
at the same time, I did create this moniker of no-handed bandit. And the reason why I was like I feel like I
00:56:48
didn't want to get the knives and that guy could take it whereas Samana would
00:56:53
just hide in the background and let this no-handed bandit character take all the
00:56:59
knives. It's similar to like Batman, like he makes up this identity that takes all the the difficult parts and uh
00:57:09
and then he has the Bruce Wayne part that's >> uh alone in his house taking care of
00:57:14
himself. >> I take all the knives as an >> uh like people when you put yourself out
00:57:21
there, people will criticize you like say, "Oh, that's not how you do it if
00:57:26
you have hooks." This is a better way. And I think by making this alternate
00:57:32
identity then I was able to find the courage to say hey this is how I do it you know
00:57:37
>> like an alter ego. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well um you know Kobe Bryant.
00:57:41
>> Yeah. So he mumba mentality. >> Yeah. Black Mamba. Black Mamba. He's
00:57:45
like oh yeah you want to >> Yeah. It's something he created. So Black Mamba was the guy on the court
00:57:51
>> and Kobe Bryant was the guy off the court. He flipped into this um Yeah.
00:57:55
Mamba mentality. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Um, what's the most meaningful uh
00:57:59
message or comment, you know, you've received on social media? >> Uh, anything that stands out?
00:58:05
>> So, just the personal thank yous. Um, a lot of times they'll reach out to me,
00:58:10
another amputee, and say, "Thank you for making that video." Like more recently,
00:58:15
like when I first got here to New Zealand, a guy reached out to me and he said, "How do you put on a jacket? It's
00:58:22
getting cold over here." And I was like, "Oh, this guy needs to find out how to
00:58:26
put on a jacket." I made a video immediately in my hotel room and posted it. And uh the guy, he had looked at
00:58:35
another guy's video and the other guy's name Billy P. Uh but his amputations are
00:58:42
different. And so whatever way he put on the coat, he said, "I can't do it that
00:58:46
way." And so I made my video and then he reached out to me yesterday and said,
00:58:52
"Thank you for making that video." But he also wanted to set me up with his
00:58:56
daughter at the same time. >> Oh, what happens in New Zealand stays in New Zealand, isn't that?
00:59:05
Um, yeah. Well, that's really cool. What's been the most successful video
00:59:08
you've done so far? Um, so a lot of the the more views are talking about shoes
00:59:16
that you don't have to tie the laces. And I think that's because >> sometimes when you fight for something
00:59:24
to change, like for example, those buttons that the door opens automatically, it not only helps the
00:59:31
people that have no hands, but it helps people that are in wheelchairs. And so I
00:59:36
think talking about shoes that people don't have to use laces, >> the old people can benefit from it. Um,
00:59:45
people that have hurt backs that can't bend over can benefit. So it's the shoes
00:59:50
video that's uh has the most views, but the most impactful one is like talking
00:59:55
about going to the toilet and wiping your bottom. Like that one has like 8,000 views. And it's because men when
01:00:04
they're faced with occupational therapist, that's a question they don't
01:00:08
want to ask to the lady. How do I wipe my bottom? Uh they want to talk to somebody that that is a double hand
01:00:15
ampute and they won't say it and they'll just search it on YouTube, you know?
01:00:20
>> Yeah. There's like I mean there's a there there's a sense of mourning from
01:00:24
losing your independence, but also there's like I suppose a sense of shame or embarrassment. Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:29
>> How do you How do you wipe your butt? >> So it's I >> very carefully.
01:00:34
>> Yeah. Very carefully. Uh, so I just, so this is the thing that Jason Koger taught me is like you want
01:00:43
to make sure the hook is pointing up and the the flex the wrist and then you'll
01:00:49
pick up the toilet paper like this and then you'll turn it this way and then go
01:00:55
back there um and wipe your bottom and then turn it and drop it into the toilet. Yeah.
01:01:03
>> Oh, and you've been to Ukraine recently. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. How did how did that come about?
01:01:08
>> So, a nonprofit organization that uh works with Ukrainian uh soldiers, they
01:01:14
contacted the this other nonprofit organization in in uh United States and they said, "We want to have a conference
01:01:22
where you have people that come and demonstrate how to do this because they're they're they're losing a lot of
01:01:30
limbs out there in Ukraine." And uh and then the lady reached out to me and she
01:01:35
said, "Would you go to Ukraine? Do you have a passport?" And I was like, "Yeah,
01:01:38
I'll go to Ukraine." Um and yeah, that was a a really eyeopening experience to
01:01:46
see uh how they're living over there and how war changes things and how um their
01:01:53
men are coping with losing their limbs. Yep. >> Yeah. What were your greatest takeaways
01:01:59
from Ukraine? Uh, I think my greatest takeaway was um those people or Ukrainian people,
01:02:09
they're just like us. Um, and the only thing they they want is just to be able
01:02:15
to take care of themselves. Just like uh we're me and you are both fiercely independent. There's men over there that
01:02:22
are losing their hands that are fiercely independent. And uh I think uh I think everyone
01:02:32
you know is in search of taking care of their family um taking care of themselves and if they can learn that
01:02:42
then they will be happy people. And it's funny cuz they were looking at us Americans when we first got there and
01:02:51
they weren't able to talk English. uh they talked to each other, but they were
01:02:56
looking at us like, "Hey, that guy's cheating. I don't know what he's doing,
01:03:00
but he's able to do everything I can't." >> And uh >> and then I taught them all the little
01:03:07
tricks. And then in the end, they spoke in a little bit of broken English and said, "Hey, when I first saw you, I
01:03:14
thought you were cheating, but now that I know uh how to do it, I'm so appreciative." And I think that's just
01:03:22
everyone's quest is to take care of themselves, you know. >> Yeah. Well, I I suppose it's like the
01:03:27
impact Jason had on you. It's just showing you what is possible. >> Yeah. Exactly. Uh I think the other
01:03:33
thing is like marketing is crazy cuz marketing will sell you those robot hands, but uh a lot of times those robot
01:03:40
hands for a double hand ampute aren't the most functional thing. And so I think a lot of what's going on over
01:03:47
there is they're falling for those marketing and rather than make uh these hooks with cabled driven system, they're
01:03:57
going with those robot hands and finding out this is hard. Um I have to be super
01:04:04
patient and I can't you can't pick up credit cards or coins off the ground. So
01:04:10
yeah. Do you hope there's um I mean on the big scheme of things, you're still
01:04:15
relatively young, right? In your late 40s. Do do you hope that with AI or whatever advancements come along, things
01:04:21
will get um better or improvements will be made or are you at peace if this is as good as it gets?
01:04:27
>> Uh I always hope that there will be a Luke Skywalker hand. I you know that
01:04:32
that's just the dream. Uh or a Winter Soldier guy arm. Um, but the other thing
01:04:38
is that uh I at the same time while hoping, you can't just sit there and hope for it. You have to be able to go
01:04:46
out and and uh function in life. So, uh I'm content where I'm at, but I'm with
01:04:52
the hopeful uh hopeful attitude of technology progressing along. >> Yeah, it's a good space to be playing
01:05:00
in. And it's um it's a life of service now. way. Like you mentioned Ukraine
01:05:04
just before and you're here in New Zealand with um the burn support crew. >> Yeah. How did that come about?
01:05:10
>> Yeah. Uh we were in uh that world burn congress and I met Michelle Henry from
01:05:16
burn support group charitable trust and uh she says you want to come to the men's retreat uh virtually and that was
01:05:24
in 20 last year 2024. And so I virtually tuned in to the men's support group and
01:05:33
then uh she messaged me after you want to come in person and I was like yeah I'll come in person and she brought it
01:05:40
before the board and they they approved that uh I should come and they were able
01:05:46
to fund my my flight and take care of my uh lodging and so I'm happy to be here
01:05:52
to help other other double hand amputees and even other burn survivors. >> Yeah. By the time this podcast comes out
01:05:59
in early 2026, um you'll be back home. Um the men's retreat will be over. What
01:06:05
are you expecting from it? Like who's going to be there? What do they hope what do you hope they can get from you?
01:06:11
>> Uh well, that's the that's a good question. Uh I always when I'm looking
01:06:16
at the Burns burn community, I bring my full uh presence there, but I'm not looking what I can give to them. I'm
01:06:27
looking what I can learn from them. >> And so it's it's not a good space when
01:06:34
you're saying I'm the guy that teach you guys something. It's more the better
01:06:39
place to be is what can I learn from these guys? And then if you all in that same headsp space, you all teach each
01:06:45
other uh different things. Uh for example, I was one of the things I like to do is drink cava. And yesterday we
01:06:53
had a little get together and there was a Fijian gentleman and me and him, he's
01:06:58
a burn survivor, too. Um and he has facial scarring and and things like that. But just to be together and
01:07:06
drinking kava and telling stories, it it feels like things are normal again or the new normal. And so I think that's
01:07:15
the thing that I hope all of us can learn is like the new normal is not so bad. >> Yeah.
01:07:23
>> Do you actually like hava? >> I do like hava. >> Do you like do you like the taste or the
01:07:29
feeling? >> No. No. The taste is No. Uh yeah, I don't like the taste, but there's some
01:07:34
cavos that's less uh they don't bite you as hard, but yeah. >> Well, I I quite like it. E, just the
01:07:41
that that tingling of the lips after the second cup. It's not bad. >> What What's it like meeting survivors
01:07:46
who um you know are exactly where you were in 2010? >> Um I always am inspired by other
01:07:54
survivors. Uh it it grounds me cuz sometimes you could get to a place and forget where you came from and forget
01:08:04
all the lessons you learned. But when I meet someone that was like me in 2010, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember
01:08:11
>> being in that situation. >> And and then it it helps me feel like,
01:08:16
dang, I'm pretty pretty resilient from getting to there to where I'm at. Uh,
01:08:23
and it helps me stay grounded. >> In fact, I did meet another burn survivor here that's in the same
01:08:29
situation I was at. And I was able to talk to him and say, "Hey, I was in that
01:08:34
same situation. Uh, you can you you can do it. You just got to practice. You know,
01:08:41
>> don't be afraid to come outside of your house." >> That's so powerful.
01:08:46
>> Like the probably the beacon of hope someone needs at that moment in their
01:08:49
life. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What would you whether it's a a burn accident, an amputation, or
01:08:54
something completely different, what would you tell someone who's in the first week or month after a
01:08:58
life-changing event? >> Um, I would say I I think I don't want to tell them what to do,
01:09:11
but I do share your story is what I would tell them. Share your story because the more you share your story,
01:09:18
the more stronger you'll get. and and then by telling them to share their story, I'm allowed to share my story.
01:09:26
And so sharing my story with them is probably the most important thing I can do.
01:09:31
>> Uh I don't want to tell anyone what to do. It's when you visit someone in the
01:09:36
hospital, that's like the last thing they want to hear is like, "Hey, you
01:09:40
should do this." It's more of, hey, I used to be in the hospital just like
01:09:46
you're in right now and this is what I did. Um, you can choose to do what I did
01:09:52
or you can choose to do whatever, but uh that's the most important thing I can do
01:09:58
is share what I did. >> And what advice would you give family or friends supporting someone through an
01:10:05
amputation or a burn? >> Um, there's a couple things. one is they're still the same person.
01:10:11
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think sometimes when a family member sees their their family
01:10:16
member uh as a burn survivor or a double hand amputee or any amputee, they're
01:10:24
like, "Oh, poor thing is no longer there." And uh I think the worst thing
01:10:29
was I had a friend that come and visit me in the hospital and they were crying. Uh they were crying like I died. I'm I'm
01:10:37
like I'm still here right in front of your face. I'm still the same person. So
01:10:41
if they can treat them like the same person that they were before the accident, then they'll feel like the
01:10:46
same person. And then uh the other thing is don't be too babying them too much.
01:10:55
>> Mhm. >> Cuz they need to experience struggle. Even though they might be in pain, experiencing struggle
01:11:03
will help them in the future. Did you were there any books or resources that you found particularly
01:11:10
helpful? >> It's funny that you you talked about the movie Shaw Shank Redemption.
01:11:15
>> Yeah, it's a great movie. Tim's Morgan Freeman. So, one time uh I was just
01:11:21
after the Super Bowl in 2011 and uh my neighbor came and accused me of hitting their car that was parked
01:11:32
outside. And at the time, I hadn't driven my car at all. And so, I was so mad that I was accused of being doing
01:11:41
something that I never did that I was like, "How can I drive my car?" And I
01:11:45
threw my arms down with these arms and like bent my hook on the the concrete and my sister was like she saw me like
01:11:55
freaking out. And then when I came back inside, I was like crying because I lost
01:12:00
control and and feeling remorse for yelling at the guy for accusing me of doing something. She sat me down and
01:12:07
watched the Sha Shank Redemption. And that was one that was like one of the more impactful things that she helped me
01:12:17
through was by showing me Sha Shank Redemption. You can't lose hope. That's
01:12:22
the thing >> is hope is so important. >> Hope for like a brighter future. M
01:12:28
>> and I think we're in these struggles that are in a dark place, but the number one thing to do is not stand
01:12:40
still. You got to take at least one step forward. >> And then when you get through with that
01:12:44
step, take another step. >> And even though it's really dark, you'll
01:12:49
start to see a little speck of light and keep going towards that light. >> Sam, that's so powerful. Um, yeah. Do
01:12:58
you lose your call very often? Like that incident in 2011? You you I mean, we've
01:13:01
been sitting down for an hour and a quarter. You seem like a real >> real levelheaded even sort of dude.
01:13:07
>> I can't imagine you getting two up or two down. >> Yeah. It's funny cuz uh my uh uh friend
01:13:13
that I play basketball with every week, he was like, "Man, Sam, you were a hotthead back in the day." And so I did
01:13:20
I did lose my cool when I uh before um but he was talking about before I lost my hands like I would fight lots of
01:13:28
people at the basketball court and uh the more time passes the less of that hothead Sam you'll see. Yeah.
01:13:38
>> I can't say it's like a switch that I turn off and on but >> slowly dims out.
01:13:44
And finally, what's the message you want the world to take away from your story?
01:13:49
>> Um, I think uh the message is just that message of hope. Um, if you're in a dark
01:13:55
place, the most important thing to do is step one step at a time and and then when you start seeing the light, uh,
01:14:04
just keep walking towards that light. And it might take a long time. Like for me,
01:14:10
um I'm just barely starting to to come out of the tunnel. But the thing that I didn't do was just
01:14:19
stop and sit there >> and wait for the light to come to me because it's not going to come to you.
01:14:24
You got to go do the work. >> Yeah, that's the thing with anything in life. Hey, no one's no one's no one's
01:14:30
coming to save you. I think it's a quote from like Mel Robbins. It comes up on my
01:14:34
TikTok all the time. No one's coming to save you. No one's coming to make you do
01:14:38
the thing. No one's coming to write the business plan. Like anything that you
01:14:41
want, you got to do it. >> That's right. >> And you're a shining example of that,
01:14:44
mate. It's wonder it's been wonderful to connect. It's been really cool.
01:14:47
>> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Enjoy your time in New Zealand.
01:14:51
And um yeah, hopefully um people have been inspired by this podcast and they follow you on the social channels. Uh
01:14:58
the no-handed Bandit Sam Moana. >> Yeah. Thank you. Cheers, brother. Cheers.