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Steve Bronnius, welcome to my podcast. >> Thanks so much. It was a pleasure to be
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here. It's very flattering to be invited. Thank you. >> It's It's really nice to meet you. I'm
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slightly um terrified in a way, I think. >> Ease your terror. >> Really?
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>> No, because I I you probably you've done you do so much writing, so you probably
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don't even remember this. And I only vaguely remember it because I think I've
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tried to block it out. But you I have been um a subject of one of your columns. One of those um
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>> Secret Diary. >> Yeah, Secret Diary. >> Was it the Secret Diary of Dom Harvey
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>> something? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I was on commercial radio for like a
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number of years show on a station called The Edge. And I would have done something oish or buffoonish and I would
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would have deserved a public bollocking and um rightfully I I got one from the great Steve Bronners.
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>> I'm sure it wasn't a bollocking. It might have been a gentle mocking,
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>> but you you have been described as merciless. Merciless. What um if you
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looked up in the thesaurus, what are some other words for merciless? What does what does that mean?
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>> Um >> like savage. >> Savage, cold, unfeilling, lacking in empathy, ruthless. These are good
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synonyms. >> Is Is that fair? Are you merciless? Oh, I I I yeah, I would have to acknowledge
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that sometimes that that would be true. Um yes, uh professionally um that would be accurate and you know
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there's there's often not a a great distinction between your professional
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life and your personal life as well. So, um yeah, I I think that would be um mainly a kind of failing
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um as a person and as a as a writer and a journalist, but sometimes it it can be, you know, harnessed to good effect.
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Um, I guess I'm one of these sort of writers who um, you know, I just can't resist a lot of
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things. And um, you know, I'm the sort of person who will write something and think,
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"Yep, yeah, you you you should say this." And then, you know, subsequently regret
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it >> and and beat myself up. So, you sort of think, [ __ ] that's a little bit mean,
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but [ __ ] it. YOLO. It's funny. Send. >> It's It's more of a sort of a matter of
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is it um is it does it belong to the story and is it accurate to the story? And um
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yeah, it the sort of god that I that that I've that I've you know kind of
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worshiped over the years is this idea of the story. You know the story has to be
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intact and the story has to be honest and um it's often at the expense of the
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person who writes it which is me. >> Yeah. cuz there was that column I found
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that described you as merciless but um if you do a deep dive or you know I know you've got a lot of fans a lot of people
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that have probably read all your work like there's some columns that you've
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written which are like about your daughter and about your personal life and they're anything but uh yeah they're
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very um you're very soft and gentle. Yeah, it can be. Yeah. I mean, you know,
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everyone is complicated, right? uh no one is any one thing and so I don't I don't see it as any particular
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contradiction or surprise that I should you know spend a lot of time say writing
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about murder trials and often or sometimes at least quite unfeillingly towards say the accused and then spend
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you know a great deal of my writing life uh writing quite sentimental columns about my mom, my daughter and people who
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I love in my life. Uh, we're all like that. >> Yeah. And the crime stuff that you're
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talking about. So, this is your latest book. Um, which was Shroud and Secrecy. I had to sign an NDA to get a copy of
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this in advance. Pulking Horn Inside the Trial of the Century. So, that's your
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latest bit of work and I'm looking forward to getting into that. Um, I like a lot of New Zealanders, I think last
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year during the Pulking Horn trial, um, were had an insatiable appetite for your
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updates, your columns. >> Cool. Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's your most
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recent piece of work. In this folder here, I also have um one of your oldest pieces of work. Um, I found something
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that you wrote in 1987. Where were you in 1987? And how old were you in 1987? >> I was 27. Uh, I would been would have
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been living in Wellington. >> When was the last time you saw this? >> Cheap as creepers. Dom Harvey is holding
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up an archive issue of RTR Countdown magazine, New Zealand's premier music magazine for teenagers across the land.
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I was 14 at the time and uh I was so excited about this magazine coming out because I had an insatable appetite for
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music. All there really was in New Zealand at that point was a free one called Rip It Up, which you get from the
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record stores. >> Yes. >> Which sort of had a alternative leaning to it. So, in terms of um the sort of
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genre of music I was interested in at the time, there was like a UK magazine called Smash Hits that would come out
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once a month. Yes. >> And it would have like the lyrics to four popular songs in there. Um and it
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was never the song you wanted. It was never Dance Exponents or the mockers or the NS. And then this magazine came out
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along alongside another one called Shake around a similar time. And I love this.
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And I found this at home the other day and there's an article from you in there.
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>> Oh gee. It's uh Dom is pointing to a feature story I wrote on a TV series
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called Peppermint Twist starring uh Ian Ray uh among other people. Yeah, it was a uh a teenage kind of comedy drama
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filmed in uh the wilds of Upper Hut. >> Yeah. Do do you Yeah. What was that like
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running for a music magazine? Very >> fantastic. Yeah. >> Fantastic. Uh yeah, I I I I really kind
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of got into journalism by writing about music. I had um I had attended the school of journalism at Wellington
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Polytenic in 1980. There was a class of 50. I was the only person to fail to graduate.
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Um even so you know I was alongside people uh like like like you know Mark Sainsbury and Frano Sullivan, Chris
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Ratu, people who had you know very long careers and uh I thought it was unfair you know um that
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that that should be the case. I mean I was I didn't I didn't I didn't graduate
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for very good reasons. I was absolutely useless you know I couldn't report to
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save myself. Um, and I was kind of consequently unemployable, but there was a street magazine in
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Wellington at the time called um, InTouch, and uh, it covered local music scene.
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Didn't pay anybody to write anything about it, but it was exciting as hell. So, I started writing for that about
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local bands of the time. Um, I remember writing quite a few stories about a uh a band called
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Unrestful Movements. Uh, shocking name really. Some sort of bowel problem, doesn't it really? But
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they were a really good band actually. And the whole scene in Wellington at that time, we're talking early 1980s,
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was very exciting, very thrilling, and quite distinct. we all sort of hated Oakland and this movement towards um you
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know incandescent pop like the screaming meme you know Wellington was too good for that we were uh underground and we
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were um hard-edged and so I wrote about that scene um a lot for years and years and that sort of eventually kind of you
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know evolved into finding a career within journalism and it and it led directly to writing for Countdown
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magazine. >> What was your writing like then? Like when you were doing um interviews with
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pop stars, say um cuz I'm guessing it's very different to the Steve Bronnas now.
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>> Um it wasn't as uh considered or as thoughtful. It was pretty rough around
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the the edges. It was um energetic, that's for sure. Um it was quite sarcastic, I would say.
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>> That hasn't changed. No, that hasn't really changed, has it, Dom? Um, but uh
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yeah, it was it I've always had a huge enthusiasm for writing and and you know
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and for writing about people. I find people super interesting um in all sorts of ways. And I think so
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I think that was a constant back then, you know, uh right from the beginning. I I just really um you know I read I very
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seldom read anything I've ever written. You know I never sit down and um reread
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a book or an article. I'm just always on the go. You know I'm running away from
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it really because I'll be afraid I can see um you know a poorly composed sentence. Um
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and I'm a great believer too in um this is this is a recent sort of um very poorly formed philosophy I have Dom that
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everything that we do in the in and and creatively like write or broadcast uh perform
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um after a while you get to understand that it's a really obvious x-ray of who
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the person really is and their strengths and their failings. things. Um, I see it
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a lot quite instantly in people who do public speaking. Do you do public speaking?
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>> The occasional keynote keynote. >> Yeah. You don't want me in the audience.
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I'll be an X-ray going, "Oh, yes. That's what he's really like." Um, I I do it
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myself. I do a fair bit of it and I instantly knowing while I'm talking, wow,
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>> what do you what do you mean? Can you sort of elaborate on that? It's a as I
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say it's a very poorly formed philosophy but um I think the real person shines
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through and this is what we conversely I think this is what we sort of love about
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great art that you see greatness in people and this terrific for example sensitivity
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towards um feeling you know like a great artist like Taylor Swift um this amazing sort of sensitivity and
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nuance that she has comes comes all through in her music, you know, and you're surrounded by the sort of glory
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and beauty of what it is to be human. Conversely, uh you can spot a phony a mile off and um or someone who's kind of
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dim-witted, a bit slow, maybe a bit vain, a bit arrogant, hasn't thought it through, but is just rushing. And uh
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these are the kind of uh things that that I um that I detect particularly in sort of public speaking. And um you know
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I I know that if I reread some of my work I I'll I'll see um artistic failings,
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you know, a badly composed sentence, something that was rushed um and something that reveals a kind of innate
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stupidity. >> Yeah. I feel like you've got a good [ __ ] detector. You don't suffer
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fools. Would that be fair to say? >> Oh, no. I love fools. Love fools. Yeah, I'm very foolish
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person myself. >> You can smell one. You can smell the smell of phony a mile away.
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>> Oh, I think I don't know. I'm not sure if that's true. That sounds like a sort
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of a superior vantage point, doesn't it? uh one of the sort of you know crucial
00:12:02
books that I that I read as a as a a person in my 20s and I didn't really read a lot before then you know at
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school I was total idiot just real stupid failed all my exams that kind of thing and the only literature that I was
00:12:18
reading uh which I didn't realize at the time was actually really valuable but
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the only literature I was reading at the time was uh football football magazines
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football comics Roy the Rovers, World Soccer, and football books. Um, which I sort of, you know, instinctively
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regarded as probably quite trashy and wasn't literature. Quite wrong. You know, a lot of great writing in that
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genre and been a huge influence on the way I write. But yeah, it wasn't until I
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was in my early 20s that I that I I really started reading. Um, I remember going to um, uh, the Wellington Public
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Library and studying an encyclopedia, you know, to try and get a bit smarter about things. And, um, under Alpha
00:13:05
Literature, they had a long list of all the books that had won the National Book
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Award in America since 1945. So I copied them out by hand and um read those books
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from 1945 to this must have been like 1982 and among them was um very securitous answer to your question about
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[ __ ] detection and phonies and among them was catcher and the rye >> oh JD Salinger
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>> JD Salinger and the sort of the the theme of that book is is Holden Kfield's
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um hatred of phonies this is like the the the one word which keeps coming up in the book. So and so was a phony and
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uh this is like terrifically strong emotional appeal to a uh you know a young guy um who likewise goes yeah you
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know the world is full of phonies and that's one thing to avoid and in other
00:14:00
people um and of course in yourself. M >> yeah I believe that's um that's the book
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that Mark Chapman read um which was the catalyst for him um murdering John Lenon.
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>> Yeah he he I I guess his thesis was that Lenon was a phony. >> Lenon was singing about imagine and
00:14:20
imagine no possessions while being a uh virtually a billionaire with a lot of real estate holdings. Um you know it's a
00:14:28
kind of accurate thesis as far as that goes but gee creepers what he did. >> Yeah. He's still in prison.
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>> Yeah, still incar castle right now. >> Incredible. Is that right?
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>> Yeah. No trial, no nothing. Missed out on something there. >> Uh, you know, I often think about, you
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know, worldwide these uh, you know, the famous murder trials and how awesome it would have been and how interesting it
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would have been to go to like, you know, I was in London a few years ago, had I had some business there. God knows what
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it was, but I had a couple of days free and so, you know, scanning the newspaper
00:15:05
to see what was happening in in in London. Didn't exactly go to the concert guide, but just to see what the what was
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going on. That's why I ended up That's how I ended up for three days at the Ralph Harris
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trial at the uh >> This is what you do. Um this is what you do for fun on holidays.
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>> That's what I did for fun. Yeah. And it was such fun. It was fascinating. Ralph
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Harris. Good grief. You know, like he's like a a part of the Australasian childhood.
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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. For me growing up, he was the the Trust British Paints guy.
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>> So yeah, that endorsement, >> the drumming on the lid, some of the
00:15:44
best music ever recorded. >> You haven't done a lot on the way of podcast. Say, I was telling you before
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we came in, I heard one on because once a podcast is published, it remains there
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until the publisher removes it. And you've done one with Simon Sweetman who's a uh a writer.
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>> Oh yeah. >> Um >> and there's another one with Graham Hill
00:16:00
which was like a radio segment which was posted online on the podcast platforms.
00:16:04
But this is your first long form platform about Steve Bronners >> I guess. Is this what this is? Yeah.
00:16:09
Would be. Yeah. Yeah. I'd forgotten those two. I mean they were >> they were chats. Were they podcasts?
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Were they? >> Yeah. They're on the various podcast apps, >> right? Podcast apps.
00:16:19
>> Yeah. Like Spotify and Apple. You you're playing dumb, right? You you've got a
00:16:24
your daughter's what 18 19? Yeah. You know, you even mentioned Taylor Swift before. You you know about podcasting.
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>> I I I certainly know about it. I've never play your character. >> I've never listened to one in my life.
00:16:37
No. No. No. Actually, I listened to one in a few years ago. Put me off for life.
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Really? Um I'm not I'm not a Yeah. Godmighty. The idea of this seems contradictory to say because I'm
00:16:50
recording a podcast with you, but the idea of sitting down to to to listen to somebody chanting on Oh,
00:16:58
[ __ ] death. But, um, no, I'm certainly aware of them. Um, and my Yeah, my daughter, she's a huge fan of
00:17:05
them. >> Yeah. Well, there's I mean, I I we discussed this before we came on and I
00:17:10
do two podcasts a week and they find they find their audience. So there'll be
00:17:13
people that are massive Steve Bronners fans that absorb all your work, maybe have bought all 14 books that will love
00:17:19
the idea of hearing you chat for a couple of hours. >> Oh, that's nice.
00:17:22
>> Yeah. So it finds an audience. Um during the poking horn chat poking horn
00:17:27
chat, you mentioned a couple of times like taking the bus home. Um so you've
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recently become a pincher. You've never driven. >> Never. >> 65 years old in June this year and
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you've never driven. Why? How did that happen? um just a sort of a a failing,
00:17:42
you know. I didn't couldn't figure it out. Didn't know how to go about it. Uh
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>> what do you mean? >> I didn't didn't have the confidence for
00:17:50
it, you know. So, I um you know, uh what's that old saying about um you know, you got to get out of
00:17:59
your comfort zone. >> Oh, nonsense. Let me tell you, comfort zone is the best thing there is. It's
00:18:06
comfortable. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> For a start, my comfort zone is not driving. Um,
00:18:11
>> how do you know? >> Oh, >> you've never driven. >> I've had the odd, you know, uh, the odd
00:18:20
experience of it. Uh, last time was, um, my mate Shane Carter, the singer and songwriter.
00:18:27
>> Oh, Straight Jacket Fitz. >> Wonderful band. >> Great. >> I only, you know, that's one of my
00:18:32
favorite songs of all time. I was devastated. I only found out about a month ago that he he didn't actually
00:18:36
write it. What? Um, Down in Splendor. >> Yeah, it's the other fellow, isn't it?
00:18:40
>> Wonderful song though. >> True. Yeah. >> It's um in a in a fair and just world it
00:18:44
would be up there with Don't Dream It's Over. >> Yeah, that sort of.
00:18:48
>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, yeah. You know, but Shane Shane gave me a uh a driving lesson a few years ago.
00:18:57
He was living in Aramana. And so I went down to stay with him. And yeah, we we I
00:19:02
I drove around Otago Dom. I drove around Otago. It's my my one claim to motoring
00:19:09
fame. >> Yeah. For like three days with his um with the instructions of the man who
00:19:15
wrote She Speeds. >> What were you like in Ara Moana? Was it like a like a sightseeing tour for you?
00:19:22
Like with your obsession with true crime? Um, no. I I I uh No, I was uh I didn't I
00:19:31
didn't do a dark tourism >> thing on that. No. Uh beautiful little village. Just walked around it,
00:19:38
>> hung up with Shane >> and drove. >> But um and you know, I found it kind of
00:19:45
fun. And it was it was uh it was it was a revelation to be able to move something, you know, along
00:19:57
a road at at speed and at distance. That was a that was a uncanny kind of thing to do.
00:20:07
>> Um >> and then I came home and completely forgot about the experience and hopped
00:20:12
back on the bus. >> Yeah. I'm just curious about how this um this I suppose right of passage passed
00:20:17
you by. So you're born in Mount Monganoi in 1960. >> Yes. >> So mid70s at the age of 15 when
00:20:23
everyone's getting their driver's license. >> I don't most people at that age just
00:20:27
have this insatiable desire to like almost get as far far away from their parents as possible or as just have that
00:20:32
sense of freedom that comes with >> having a motor vehicle. Did did you not
00:20:36
or did you just have friends that could drive? H I I I recognize the feeling about wanting to
00:20:44
get away. Uh I remember sitting in in class at Mount Monganui >> and outside the window in the distance was
00:20:54
the Kimai Rangers and you know literally thinking looking at them and going wow what's what's on the other side? My life
00:21:03
is on the other side. I need to get get to the other side. When's the next bus?
00:21:11
[Music] >> You thought this is a comfortable way to travel. I'm going to stick with this.
00:21:17
So, >> and indeed, you know, I I I I left at 18 on the bus. I went to Wellington. That
00:21:23
that seemed to me to make perfect sense. >> Yeah. So, Wellington Polytech, you go
00:21:27
there to do a journalism course. You last six weeks. >> I lasted the whole year.
00:21:31
>> Oh, did you? >> And still failed. >> Right. Why did I Why did I think you
00:21:34
dropped out after six weeks? >> Ah, right. No, the previous year I I I went to Victoria University and was so
00:21:41
damned stupid. I I I got out of there after six weeks. Yeah. >> Were you stupid or did you I mean,
00:21:47
you're clearly not stupid. Did Did you just have like a different way of learning that wasn't sort of recognized
00:21:51
at the time or do you know what I mean? Like there's there's labels for things
00:21:55
now. >> There are labels. No, there is labels. The one I adhere to is that I'm damned
00:22:02
stupid. I I didn't understand anything they was saying. I didn't get it at all.
00:22:07
I couldn't write an essay to save my life. I couldn't Yeah. You know, it
00:22:13
didn't come as any shock. I was pretty bad at um at secondary school. I got English, failed everything else. M
00:22:22
>> um you know at the same time I I I I knew I was um fluent uh as a writer and that this was um you
00:22:35
know with a with a bit of luck and fortitude and cheek and g uh that this was going to uh be the thing that I
00:22:44
could do. You know, it was like I was just like terrified, you know, upon adolescence thinking,
00:22:50
gee, what am I what am I going to do, you know, fit for nothing? >> Until you Yeah. you find your place in
00:22:58
the world. >> Yeah. So, you were on the what was called the doll for a while, the
00:23:01
unemployment benefit. Uh late '7s, early 80s. >> Um throughout a good deal of the 1980s.
00:23:08
>> This is when unemployment was quite high in New Zealand. >> Yeah. There were a lot of us around. It
00:23:12
didn't seem like an anomaly. Yeah. All my friends were unemployed. So I regarded it as perfectly um normal. I
00:23:20
mean it was a consequence of having you know done the journalism school and failing uh to graduate you know
00:23:27
bizarrely. Um employers were a bit loathed to take on somebody who who couldn't graduate from journalism
00:23:35
school. But I managed to finally sort of catch on and I I I got a job at um Radio
00:23:41
2XS which in Palmer North which is something we have in common. >> Um they were desperate for journalists.
00:23:48
They had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find journalists uh who would agree to work there. And
00:23:56
there I was lying at the bottom of the barrel. >> Similar to me, they love hiring
00:24:01
unqualified people. I was there from um full full-time. I did work experience there while I was at
00:24:08
Palmer Boys High for a couple of years and then worked there full-time from right through the 90s actually.
00:24:13
>> Oh, you're from Palmer North. You're local there. >> Yeah, I was born in born in Levven and
00:24:18
moved to Palmer North um in 1980. So, you and I we were there the same time. >> What the heck? Wow.
00:24:24
>> How was your time in Palmy? >> I absolutely love Palmer North. It was
00:24:27
great. Yeah, I was Yeah, the job was the job was awesome. Um, being a a radio news journalist was was thrilling, you
00:24:39
know, uh, didn't really know the first thing about journalism, having been a
00:24:45
flop at the journalism school. And this is where I learned how to do it, you know. Um, really good people to work
00:24:52
with. Uh it was before the dreadful, you know, smoking legislation came in and it was kind of compulsory to sit at
00:25:01
your desk and chain smoke. Everyone else did. That's where I learned to smoke.
00:25:06
Seemed like great fun. Everyone smoked sportsman cigarettes. I thought, well, that's quite athletic.
00:25:12
So we all sat there and chain smoked and um and yeah the the I've always seemed to
00:25:20
be a great one for looking out windows at things. Mount Mongoi was the Kaimai ranges at two excss it was the Ruahene
00:25:27
ranges and I thought I'm on the right side. This is where life is. I don't
00:25:32
care what's on the other side. This is fantastic. >> And you were there for a couple of
00:25:37
years. >> Yes, I was there for a couple of years. I was glaring out the window one day at
00:25:42
the rangers and a starling came and perched on the on the window sill. Beautiful bird. People don't really take
00:25:54
the time to appreciate how beautiful their coloring is. And I was staring at it and this um
00:26:02
uh young woman, a student intern who was there at the time um said, "What are you
00:26:08
what are you looking at?" I said, "Look at that bird. Isn't it beautiful?" And
00:26:13
she looked at it too and and she turned to me and smiled and we fell in love. >> Have you been married? Did you marry?
00:26:23
>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Was that your your first wife? >> That woman? No, I'm not describing my
00:26:30
first wife. No, I got married um sometime after that. Yeah. >> Just Yeah. Okay. Um Yeah. What's your
00:26:37
relationship status at the moment? I found a column that you wrote a couple of year January 2023. Um an age gap
00:26:43
longdistance love story. >> Yeah. Which I thought I'd bring up because I'm I'm in a relationship at the
00:26:48
moment with a a substantial gap. I'm 52, she's 31. >> What's that age gap?
00:26:54
>> Uh 20 21 years. 22 years. 21 years. >> That's That's kind of substantial.
00:27:00
>> What was yours? You wrote a column about it. >> It was around about there.
00:27:03
>> Yeah. >> Um >> I mean it's around about there. Yeah. >> Um Yeah. No, we are uh we we we go out
00:27:12
together. >> You're still in a relationship now? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:18
>> Um and you've recently turned um Yeah. 65. You got the gold card now. How's
00:27:23
that? I'm waiting for the gold card. >> It hasn't arrived yet. Do you have to
00:27:25
apply or does it just >> Yeah, you fill out these forms. I've been phoning them every day. Where's my
00:27:32
gold card? >> What What do you want with it? Is it the Is it the buses? Is it the buses?
00:27:38
>> The ferryy to hickey. >> It's I basically live my life on a bus,
00:27:42
you know. Uh yeah, I want that. I mean that that's my uh one of my great ideas
00:27:48
of fun is to be on the bus and go all around um Oakland. Uh my girlfriend and I do that constantly. We were there the
00:27:57
other day. We went to um Panmure uh to Have you been to Panmure? >> Not since they had the the um famous
00:28:04
roundabout taken out. >> Oh, that was sad, wasn't it? >> Great area, though.
00:28:09
>> Yeah. Um, no. We go there to um it would be my long-held ambition to go to
00:28:14
Peaches, which is this chicken joint. You get fried chicken and a beer. >> An uneasy silence over the podcast.
00:28:26
>> I was waiting for more. >> What more do you need to say? I've sold
00:28:30
the hell out of it. Yeah, cuz you um you you wrote one one of your books, one of
00:28:34
your 14 books, um The Man Who ate Lincoln Road, uh which is a 3 km stretch of road in Oakland with 55 food places
00:28:41
on and you ate you ate all of them. >> Yeah. >> Yes. In one year. Yeah. Um I was living
00:28:48
in Tiatu and constantly being uh driven by my uh partner at the time and our kid uh up to
00:28:58
Lincoln Road for various things. you know, the kids always fall over. So, I always was at the White Cross up there
00:29:04
and uh it's got lots of sort of big boxes. So, we're up there, you know,
00:29:10
to 10 and so forth. And I was just like fascinated by Lincoln Road particularly. Um there was so much you
00:29:20
could eat on it. And I kept thinking about it and thinking about it and how we were always there and how this this
00:29:27
road seemed to me to be hold some sort of secret to Oakland life >> and I realized it was the food and I
00:29:38
thought to to discover the secret of it would be to eat the food. Um, and so I decided it would be a great writing uh
00:29:49
project and a personal kind of odyssey would be to eat at every single joint and uh record that experience
00:29:59
um in one year and and um called the series The Man Who Ate Lincoln Road and collected it into a book of that of that
00:30:09
same title. Um one of my favorite books. >> A lot of food in it. Yeah, but it's it's
00:30:15
um it's an intriguing insight into your mind because it's like it seems like a
00:30:18
good idea, but turn turning that into a captivating um you know 80,000word document that other people want to read
00:30:25
is another story altogether. Do you know what I mean? Like taking taking the idea
00:30:29
and turning it into an actual full-size book. It may not have seemed an obvious idea for a book or a series, but um I'm
00:30:38
always like really interested in um things which are right there in front of us, you know. And maybe this is kind of
00:30:45
related in some ways, Dom, to not being able to drive. You know, I'm not a big
00:30:51
explorer. >> I go to courtrooms. You don't need to drive to do that. You just sit there.
00:30:57
You're a passenger. It's my life as a passenger. And um with Lincoln Road, the the the
00:31:05
thing I'm trying to establish here is that it was McDonald's, it was Burger
00:31:10
King, it was KFC, it was fish and chips, it was Chinese, it was Indian and so forth. All these things that everybody
00:31:17
eats. I really love the common experience, you know. I find that really interesting to read uh to write about
00:31:25
rather than obscure kinds of experiences. pulking horn. Everyone was interested about it. I'd like to write
00:31:32
about that. >> Uh food. We all eat burgers. We all go to McDonald's, you know. We all have the
00:31:40
um from cradle to grave. We have this experience of the cheeseburger of of of the breakfast meal.
00:31:50
>> Um let's write about that sort of thing. >> Yeah. >> You know, I wrote a book about birds.
00:31:57
how to watch a bird. >> Um, we may not be entirely conscious of them, but they absolutely all around us,
00:32:05
you know, this this this particular country, too. You know, before >> before there were people, there were no
00:32:12
mammals. >> It was just birds. >> Well, you mentioned um the stling before
00:32:16
on the the back window of the 2x newsroom at 178 Broadway a but I feel like you Yeah. You just have this
00:32:22
ability this uh >> Did you just quote the address? >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll never forget the
00:32:26
address. 178 Broadway. >> There you go. >> Yeah, it's a big part of my life.
00:32:30
>> Yeah. >> Slither of your life. Two years. >> But it was a big part of mine like over
00:32:35
a decade. >> I guess good memories. >> Was it a decade? Right. I guess it was a
00:32:38
sliver. It was crucial though. um my first job as a journalist >> um and realizing the or getting an
00:32:47
intimation of the possibilities um of being able to turn journalism into a kind of literature. Uh the f the
00:32:58
particular fascination with that is that every story could be no longer than four
00:33:02
sentences. And I I found that artistically really interesting and satisfying how to
00:33:10
condense everything. So that like a poem every word counted. >> I found that so interesting. M
00:33:20
with your obsession with words, do you when you listen to music, are you are you like a a an overall sound guy or are
00:33:27
you a lyric guy? >> Sound guy completely. >> Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading an
00:33:32
interview with MC Jagger and somebody had said to him, "Why do you slur your
00:33:37
words when you're singing?" This is like a 1960s interview, I think. And he said,
00:33:43
"I don't want people to hear the words." Oh, what a great answer. I don't want to
00:33:47
hear them. But you mentioned Taylor Swift very early on in this piece. So I'm I'm
00:33:53
guessing um from the the portrait we've painted of Steve Broadier so far, you're
00:33:58
only aware that she exists because you know you've got a daughter in that sort
00:34:00
of demograph. But um she's quite the poet. Like some of her lyrics are just goosebump worthy.
00:34:07
>> Yes, I do pick up on some of them. Yeah, >> they are terrific. Yeah, she's got a uh
00:34:13
she's she's really terrific. what I can what I can hear and what I can remember
00:34:18
of her lyrics. I love them, but the little snatches, you know, uh I I I mainly love the the sensitivity, the the
00:34:27
sound of it, the way she sings. Beautiful voice. Um and you're aware that this voice is sort of occasionally
00:34:35
enunciating really interesting words. Um there's a song of hers called um well the chorus anyway is about Romeo
00:34:44
and Juliet. What's that one? >> And it's it's a sort of a standing.
00:34:49
Yeah. Love story. >> Love story. Yeah. It's a standing joke with me and Minka. That's my kid that
00:34:54
you know we'll we'll play it in the car. She drives and and I'll sing along to
00:35:00
where she sings the word Juliet. That's the only thing I'm ever picking up on.
00:35:05
Oh, I love the way she sings Juliet. and she's going, you know, there's a whole
00:35:10
bunch of other words. Oh, yeah. Quite aware of that. Don't know what they are,
00:35:14
though. >> I was not expecting to have a chat with Steve Bronny about Taylor Swift today,
00:35:19
but here we are. Just a couple of middle-aged men Swifties in disguise. >> So, are you you're happy? So, you you
00:35:28
you're still with your your daughter's the mother of your daughter? >> No, no, no. We broke up and um I'm with
00:35:35
someone else. She's with someone else. And um yeah, but uh Minka, our kid um
00:35:42
uh she's a huge part of our >> huge part of our lives. >> Yeah. >> So um yeah, your brother Mark, older
00:35:51
brother, he died um last year of a brain bleed >> uh 69. We referenced that um Philip
00:35:56
Pinghorn sent you a text, which is the Ford of the book. Um >> yeah. >> Can you remember? Yeah. Were you close?
00:36:04
He was an artist, right? Very good artist. very good artist. Yeah, we were pretty close. Um, it's a family of six.
00:36:11
I was the youngest, Mark was the next youngest, but by five years. So, you know, a bit of a gap there.
00:36:19
>> Um, the others had, you know, pretty much like left home by the time, you know, I
00:36:27
remember my own life kind of thing. And it was just me and Mark. And then not long after that, uh,
00:36:38
from what I remember of my own life, you know, um, and I have a bad memory, like
00:36:44
super bad, like shockingly bad, like Groundhog Day bad, >> you know, every day is like a a new day
00:36:53
to me. I can't remember the experience previously. Um around about nine or 10
00:37:00
uh our dad parents marriage broke up and our dad left. So it was just me, my brother Mark
00:37:06
and my mom. And that's my main sort of memory or or you know pattern of my childhood is the three of us in this in
00:37:15
this house. >> Um yeah. Well gosh, you know, um I love all my family, all my uh other brothers and
00:37:27
my one sister Jenny. Doesn't matter that they're a lot older. Uh you catch up
00:37:32
with them as you're an adult. And it's interesting, isn't it? You know, with
00:37:36
with with siblings, you I think you maintain the same dynamic >> as in you know, I'm always the youngest.
00:37:45
>> You still have that moment where you feel like a little a little little boy
00:37:48
again. >> It's it's >> strange, isn't it? It is strange. You
00:37:51
you you have set roles. You know, my set roles that I'm the youngest of the family, even though we're all real old
00:37:58
people now. >> Um but yeah, Mark, I was I was I suppose I was particularly close to him being
00:38:07
the closest in age. Um and uh yeah, it's uh he he he he lived in Kafia, this very remote town on the west coast
00:38:23
of the North Island, sort of what between Raglin and New Plymouth, vaguely I guess you'd say.
00:38:30
And uh the family have been going there quite a lot since he died to sort out our affairs, mow the lawns, this sort of
00:38:38
thing. And um it's a bittersweet kind of thing. You know, we go there a lot and I really
00:38:47
appreciate it uh being able to spend this time with my um various members of my family who go
00:38:55
there. You know, I love them to bits. And um you know, I'd have to sort of say that
00:39:01
not being able to drive means that I'm you know, a kind of a remote figure. and
00:39:08
go, "Oh, you know, I'm I'm going to drive to the mount, see everybody. Can't
00:39:13
do it, you know." Um, and so, yeah, spending this time has been great, but of course, we're doing
00:39:21
it because Mark's no longer there. And that's that's a, you know, has a definite sort of quality
00:39:27
of melancholy with every visit. Um I I the the others uh they get B&Bs or the motel in Kia and I I sleep in the
00:39:41
house. >> Yeah. I sleep in Mark's house which is a former >> former bank.
00:39:48
>> Yes. >> Bank of New Zealand. Dear old Mark, he was a special guy. Very I think he's an
00:39:56
outstanding artist. He's been Yeah, it's been a real revelation like going through his work and my two nieces
00:40:05
have been cataloging it and so you're developing this physical intimacy with
00:40:09
the work, taking them out, cataloging them, sending them to an art facility in Cambridge and just realizing, you know,
00:40:19
how good he was, like just terrific. And the >> I always knew he was really industrious,
00:40:27
you know, this was his mission. He took it really seriously. I guess it's something, you know, I I I flatter
00:40:35
myself. I like to think that I can relate to. >> Yeah, >> I take writing very seriously. I'm very
00:40:42
prolific, a very hard worker. >> It's one thing you can't you can't, you
00:40:47
know, say that I'm not. I do work real hard and Mark worked harder and he was
00:40:54
obviously much more of a pure artist >> than than I am. He was relying entirely
00:41:00
on his imagination to come up with these things. >> Can you remember can you remember the
00:41:06
last conversation? [Music] >> Yeah. Yeah. He'd u he was a chatter box that's for sure.
00:41:18
my chatter box. >> You are today for a long form podcast. That's the the opposite is far worse. I
00:41:24
had um at the beginning of this year I had um Opie Bossam on famous jockey who announced his retirement and he's he's
00:41:30
not a chatterbox and um it was like it ended up being under under an hour like the conversation was just exhausted
00:41:37
because he >> did you did you talk a lot to compensate? I found myself doing I there
00:41:43
there's this little I shouldn't call it a hack because um that makes it seem
00:41:46
very transactional but I found with a lot of guests um there's a thing called
00:41:50
a vulnerability exchange so if I leak out a little bit of information about myself it often promotes the guest to
00:41:55
open up um yeah so I found myself doing that with OP like talk about some of my you know things that I've been through
00:42:03
in the hope that it would open him up and >> a vulnerability exchange dreadful person really where did you
00:42:10
come up with that termful self-help book. >> A vulnerability exchange ashamed of
00:42:16
yourself. >> Yeah, >> that's manipulative. >> Yeah, it does. Yeah, actually, you're
00:42:20
right. In this sort of um in this sort of environment, like I find in real life, it's actually a very good thing
00:42:24
with close friends, like especially male friends the same age. And yeah, someone
00:42:28
has to be the the person that starts talking vulnerability to get the other person to open up. But as soon as
00:42:33
there's microphones here, there is a performative aspect to it. Yeah, you're
00:42:36
right. I'm I'm a piece of [ __ ] >> You do it in real life, too, with your
00:42:39
friends. Do you? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Are you the one who initiates these
00:42:43
things? Uh >> I ideally not. I still find it very difficult, but I've learned Yeah. from
00:42:47
some therapy and stuff. It is good to have these conversations and try and Yeah. allow yourself to be more
00:42:52
vulnerable. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I can I just say I I I've really enjoyed this interview. I like
00:42:58
the way you interview. You've got a a a good mind. >> Yeah. I think it's lively. Yeah. M
00:43:06
>> and you have the actually the main sort of thing about you I think is that you
00:43:09
have this um and I really admire you have this terrific sincerity about you. >> Well yeah from my my uh extensive radio
00:43:18
career it was like 5 minute 10-minute interviews. So, you go to a junket, you have 10 minutes with Ed Sheeran or
00:43:23
Justin Bieber, whoever, and our goal is to try and get some sort of a king hit, you know, some something that's gonna
00:43:30
>> going to something beyond, oh, have you tried Vegemite or what do you think in
00:43:33
New Zealand? Something that's going to get you some external press coverage.
00:43:36
Um, >> which put me in a a sort of corner where I had to Well, well, I sort of I didn't
00:43:41
have to. I was a smartass, I guess. But now with the long form, I can just be more genuine and sincere and honest. So
00:43:48
would you for instance have provocations? >> What does that mean? How do you mean?
00:43:53
>> In your small what five minute whatever interviews would you sometimes provoke?
00:43:58
>> Oh. Oh yeah. Like a like a Dennis Connor Paul Holmes walk out. Oh, that would be
00:44:02
a dream scenario. >> Someone throwing a glass of water over you would be. Yeah.
00:44:11
>> But I look back now from the Yeah. at the point of view of a 52-y old man and
00:44:14
it's like h it's terrible. >> Yeah. >> Scoundrelous way to live your life.
00:44:21
>> Yeah. Have you had a glass of water thrown over? >> Never happened. Never happened.
00:44:26
>> Oh, I had a terrible one. Um was when I was writing for Countdown magazine for
00:44:31
the teenage Dom Harveys of New Zealand. Uh, I got sent to Sydney to cover a concert by MLY crew when they were in
00:44:40
their palm >> and yeah got escorted backstage to interview Vince Neil and the interview went kind of really
00:44:50
badly and he uh erupted into a a rage and we were sitting down and he raised himself to his full height which I think
00:45:00
is about 5'1. So, not exactly towering. >> He's the original sex [ __ ]
00:45:08
>> Malignant, too. He picked up my tape recorder and smashed it against the
00:45:12
wall. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And and I went over to and he stormed off swearing and I I had good
00:45:21
instincts. I scured over to get the tape. The tape recorder was a goner, but I went over to scurry to to get the
00:45:28
tape. And these two security guards went over and uh hit me and dragged me up. >> Wow.
00:45:37
>> Wow. How how was that for you at the time? Were you shaking? >> Yeah, I was really upset. Yeah. I didn't
00:45:42
really enjoy the concert. >> Not a fan of the music or just You were a fan of the music before that point.
00:45:49
>> Oh yeah. Good band. >> Yeah, undoubtedly. Gee, they were good at that time. Um terrific. They were um
00:45:56
had just been eclipsed by GNR, >> but you know, they could raise a mighty racket,
00:46:04
>> uh in their own in their own right, but yeah, I didn't enjoy that concert. I was
00:46:08
quite upset. >> Do you have any other stories like that? Who else through working on RTR
00:46:13
magazine, RTR Countdown magazine? Yeah. Any other junkets? It's it's crazy to
00:46:18
think in the year 2025 that there was a time where a magazine journalist would be sent overseas to speak to someone.
00:46:25
>> Oh yeah, you're right. You know, I mean, I was I was really I've been really
00:46:29
lucky with the timing as a as a journalist. You know, I I was there for the good years when print was king,
00:46:38
>> you know. I I remember when I I worked at the Listener magazine, which is
00:46:41
probably just about the happiest uh job I've ever had. I worked with my best
00:46:47
friend uh Finley McDonald. He was the editor and I was the deputy editor. And what a what a joy and what a pleasure it
00:46:54
was to to work there together. He's so funny, you know. I was like weeping with
00:47:00
laughter at him at his jokes every day. And um I remember one day uh you know we were we were we were on
00:47:09
deadline and um I was in I was sitting in with Finn and uh in his office and we were
00:47:18
like it was Wednesday morning about to put the paper to bed, you know, and we were um we'd had like a
00:47:25
there was like a four-page story, a really good one that we were just sort of finessing
00:47:31
>> and a an ad rep came and he said, "Oh my god, great news. You know, I've just got
00:47:37
this um double page spread from I think it was like Sharp Electronics and it was
00:47:42
worth a fortune, you know." Right? You know, and the only things of been gone to the printers
00:47:50
apart from the story. Can you cut it back and we'll put in this ad? And we h
00:47:56
you're out of your mind. [ __ ] off. You know, this story is a piece of art. No,
00:48:01
not taking your money. Fair call. Fair enough. And that was the way it was. You know, you were turning down staggering
00:48:10
amounts of money because, you know, editorial came first. We had the we had the whip hand. Crazy to think about it,
00:48:18
>> you know, just crazy. And that wasn't that long ago. We're talking about like
00:48:23
200, it's probably 2002, >> guess 23 years ago is a while. But um certainly at that time, you know, I I
00:48:32
had no idea. I guess other people might have. I I had no idea that a revolution was a coming
00:48:40
>> and it was going to change everything completely. You know, magazines were
00:48:47
king back then. You know, they were everywhere. They were thick with ads. They sold a lot. you could um publish
00:48:56
really really long stories um from a a you know written by a a staff of many >> you know we're quite a big staff metro
00:49:09
did north and south [Music] none of those titles all of those titles are still going and still doing really
00:49:18
good work but none of them have one full-time journalist on staff >> yeah and the readership numbers would be
00:49:25
considerably smaller than what they once were. Have you thought about doing like
00:49:28
um like a a a like a your own sort of payw wall thing like a substack or something like that?
00:49:33
>> I thought you were going to say your own podcast. >> Well, you could.
00:49:37
>> You weren't going to go that far. >> You could. Yeah. No, you could. Yeah,
00:49:40
but but I think I think a written written word is more your your thing. You'd probably do very well out of it.
00:49:45
>> I I've thought about it. Yeah. Someone Yeah. Someone has uh mentioned it to me
00:49:50
and I thought, "Oh, gee. Um, what's a substack? What what are what are what
00:49:55
are they? What are you doing? >> I don't know if that's um it's kind of
00:49:57
like a blog. >> Oh, yeah. I've got the a vague idea of them. I've even read some actually, I
00:50:04
guess. But I I haven't I haven't sat down to try and figure it out. Yeah.
00:50:12
>> Get your daughter to set it up for you. It'll be be second nature for her. She
00:50:16
>> There you go. >> She'll watch a YouTube tutorial and have it up. Well, I bet he could sort out a
00:50:20
gold card for me, too, and and and draw up a list of podcasts to listen to. >> You mentioned um Fin Lane McDonald
00:50:27
before uh as your best friend. I I um I used to live just around the corner, I think, from him and his um wife, Carol.
00:50:34
I seen at the cafe most weekends. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um what would he say about
00:50:39
you as a best friend? >> Oh, I I hope he'd be kind. I mean, we're very close. So, I'm the godfather of his
00:50:46
son Will, who uh is now some sort of avatar in in copyrightiting and advertising. He won something at KHN.
00:50:56
>> Wow. >> Recently, I haven't won an award in KHN. How you doing with Khan, Tom?
00:51:01
>> Never been to Khn. >> No. >> I'm pretty sure I haven't won an award
00:51:05
there, though. >> Uh oh, I hope he'd be I hope he'd be kind. Yeah.
00:51:10
>> Are you >> What would your best friend say about you? He's not going to He's not going to
00:51:14
say anything mean, is he? >> No. Well, no. No. >> Who's your best friend?
00:51:19
>> Oh, I got a couple actually. A couple both called Robert. There's a guy called
00:51:22
Robert Scott that worked at the Breeze for a number of years and another guy called Robert Dicki who's also in media.
00:51:28
>> Yeah. >> What would they say? Complicated guy, interesting guy. >> I'd like
00:51:34
>> sincere guy. >> I'd like to think um I don't know. I don't know. It's hard, isn't it? It's
00:51:40
hard. This is a question I ask a lot of my a lot of my um guests like towards the end of the podcast. It's like what
00:51:46
three words would you like you know people your friends friends and family to say to you at your funeral like to
00:51:51
sum up your life. >> Um but I I don't know if I could answer it myself. Happy to ask it but don't
00:51:56
know if I could answer it. >> What would you want them to be? >> Three is it? Is that the parameter?
00:52:02
>> Um Guess it's an exercise in sort of flattery and conceit, isn't it? Uh,
00:52:16
>> well, it's just your best qualities, I guess. >> Oh, fun, I guess. Sweet would be nice.
00:52:27
>> Um, interesting. >> Is that what your your daughter would say? What would she say? You seem to
00:52:38
have a really good relationship with her. E I talked about this at the beginning. Some of the columns you've e
00:52:43
>> Yeah, we're pretty close. >> Yeah. >> Um >> yeah, I was thinking about it when you
00:52:50
when you when you put the question, which is a good one, isn't it? Um yeah, I'd hope she'd say something like
00:52:57
sweet. Yeah. >> Are you you a sweet guy? The guy sitting in front of me today has been a sweet
00:53:04
guy. But the um yeah, sometimes with that pen, you know, there is that saying, the pen is mightier than the
00:53:09
sword and you have um stabbed a few people with your pen. >> The pen is mightier than the sweet. Um
00:53:17
>> Oh, I can be. I I I hope. Yeah. >> How do you feel about the um about aging
00:53:22
and the aging process, I suppose, especially it sort of crystallizes how >> how um finite things are like when you a
00:53:29
sibling passes, I guess. >> Real real good. Yeah. Real good. Uh yeah. Yeah. It's It's nice. I like it.
00:53:36
Um I like it. Um I suppose the only sort of thing I might say about it is that um
00:53:44
I'm um I'd be very loathed to ever be become or to be thought of as grumpy. I
00:53:54
couldn't stand that. Hate that. And um I've always thought though for a long
00:54:00
time that the the sort of enemy of of of of anyone really of any age, but particularly as you get older is um
00:54:12
bitterness. >> I find that I find that yeah, I'm scared of that actually. I I I
00:54:20
I when I detect that in other people, I I'm upset by it. And um yeah, it's it's like it's like the main
00:54:30
thing that I want to avoid in life other than you know physical infirmity and so
00:54:36
on. >> I think if you're that aware of it, you will definitely be able to avoid it.
00:54:41
>> I think that's key, right? >> Don't know. Not necessarily. You know,
00:54:44
uh you Yeah, not necessarily, but I hope so. Yes. >> There's um a quote I found from yours in
00:54:51
one of your columns which um which yeah, I thought I'd highlight. I seem to prefer the agitated life. Always put
00:54:57
myself in situations where happiness is happiness seldom remains stable and I find ways to complicate it.
00:55:03
>> God almighty. Really? Did I write that? That's so accurate. >> Why?
00:55:08
>> Criy. >> Why? I I think um what troubled me about that line is I'm I'm 52 now, so you've
00:55:14
got 13 years on me, which is going to it sounds like a long time, but it's going
00:55:16
to creep up alarmingly quick. Um and I can see parts of parts of myself in that phrasing there. And I'd like to think by
00:55:25
by the time I get to 65, there'd be like more of a sense of, you know, calm, I
00:55:29
guess. >> You know what I mean? >> I I I do know what you mean. And I'm
00:55:36
looking at you with narrowed eyes because what I want to say to you is that yes, I
00:55:43
to tell you the truth, I find a bit of a bond between you and I. I'm sort of
00:55:47
recognizing something in you. Um, and I would predict for you that uh, yeah, I I
00:55:54
think you will uh, will come to a greater calmness, >> but I I also think that if you think
00:56:01
you're going to put your own personal sense of agitation behind you, dream on,
00:56:06
baby. >> Yeah. >> You you have a kind of a volatility about you, which I like, but um, I don't
00:56:15
think it's going to go away. >> Yeah. >> What do you think? Fear.
00:56:20
Yeah, I guess so. But I'd like Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I feel you're just
00:56:24
always looking for this sense of calm, but there's always going to be, you know, I don't know. I don't know. You
00:56:30
just feel like you're going to reach a certain point, but maybe that point is
00:56:33
just like a mirage. >> It's a mirage. >> Now, your daughter Minka, uh, who we've
00:56:38
mentioned a couple of times, so she's you're an empty neester now. >> Yeah.
00:56:41
>> Yeah. So, she's studying in Deneden. >> Yes. >> How you wrote about the how how anxious
00:56:47
you were about the airport farewell. How was it? >> About as about as bad as I I' I'd
00:56:56
thought. Yeah, >> it was real sad. I uh >> Did you hold it together for her or
00:57:02
>> No, no, I don't think so. Um, oh, I'm what I remember is is immediately afterwards and um
00:57:16
h as she went down the the thing to board, I went and sat down and this very nice woman was was sitting
00:57:26
there and she she's about your age, I suppose, and she said, "Look, I it gets easier. And she knew exactly
00:57:37
what was going on. She'd been must have been watching, you know, >> and I was weeping away. And she said,
00:57:43
"Look, it gets easier. I've sent two of mine away. Um it never it's never not
00:57:49
hard, but it gets easier." >> And she was so comforting. She was like,
00:57:54
"The the the comfort of strangers is a true thing. People are so nice, you know. People have got such sort of
00:58:01
>> mercy and grace about them." And um it's one of the kind of lessons to tell you
00:58:06
the truth Dom of of what I found in in journalism is um you know you you might not think it
00:58:16
because journalism is partially at least a kind of a combative kind of pastime >> and that you know a definition of it is
00:58:26
that you're always going up to complete strangers and asking them really pointed
00:58:30
and personal questions. There's almost a kind of a hostility to it. But one of
00:58:36
the lessons I I think I have found in journalism is it's no more complex than this is just
00:58:42
how damn nice people are. People like to talk. People like to um people like being people like being with
00:58:52
other people and and being approached pretty generally. And uh they um yeah, it's um
00:59:04
I wouldn't have like a a hit list of, you know, the worst people I've ever
00:59:08
like interviewed or worst people I've ever talked to. You know, when I when I sort of have a a
00:59:15
general sort of amorphous idea of, you know, interview subjects and people I've
00:59:21
interviewed, I just sort of get this general sense of gee, people have been really great. M
00:59:26
>> yeah there's um a quite I don't know if it was originally from Michelle Obama
00:59:30
but um a variation of it at least that she's got is um most people are hard not
00:59:33
to like up close >> um now you you've been up close to some terrible human beings like I'm thinking
00:59:40
Mark Lundy for example >> oh Mark >> oh I like I mean you know I mean is he
00:59:46
terrible we we don't know that I >> I think it's been well well established
00:59:50
hasn't it >> no well I mean two juries He's >> how many Supreme Court appeals?
01:00:01
>> Yeah. Well, he, you know, he's he's done his time certainly and he's, you know,
01:00:06
he's he's been parrolled and he's, >> you know, >> back with his back with his family. Um
01:00:12
Oh, you know, no, I I'm sorry. I won't I won't I won't let that one rest. I I I
01:00:18
thought the um I thought the prosecution of him, the two prosecutions of him >> um were uh were worrying. And I've
01:00:30
always thought that there were uh considerable grounds uh for a um not guilty uh verdict or not
01:00:39
guilty situation for that that there I'm getting ahead of myself. Although there
01:00:44
were considerable doubt that he that he was the person who caused the death of his wife and child. Yeah. Yeah. Um
01:00:52
>> interesting. And no, not not you know, I hung out with him uh a few times at one
01:00:58
one particular summer in between his two trials. And while I didn't find him the
01:01:02
most sort of likable or most pleasant, you know, of of men, um, he was an interesting guy and he certainly wasn't
01:01:10
a a terrible person to behold. You know, if anything, I thought he would >> kind of inevitably damaged by the years
01:01:17
he had already >> spent in in in prison. >> Um, yeah, that's a that that
01:01:25
that's a you you will never know >> kind of thing. Most of them are, you
01:01:30
know, Dom, um, you know, Watson, Scott Watson, that's a kind of a never know.
01:01:39
Bane, I guess, is a never know. You know, a lot of them are. It's almost been like a relief when you have the
01:01:47
very rare case where it's not open or it's not a you never know where it's fairly freaking unequivocal that
01:02:00
yes, they killed them. >> There's only two that I can think of that I've covered. Um Malcolm Raya
01:02:10
>> M >> he was finally convicted after serving you know an currently
01:02:17
serving an enormously long sentence for being a multiple rapist. He was finally convicted for the murder of Susan Budet
01:02:24
which you know who as we know Tayapora was falsely uh found guilty and sentenced and did
01:02:30
all that jail time when in fact it was it was it was Raya and I went to that particular trial. In fact, I went to the
01:02:37
poorer one, too. But I went to the Raya one where he was finally, you know, faced with that charge.
01:02:48
And yeah, it was unlike any other trial where it where it wasn't, you know, the
01:02:54
sort of tension of, oh gee, you know, maybe they didn't do it. There's reasonable doubt here. It was like never
01:03:00
a second. It was like, wow, bad guy. M >> you really are a bad that what did you
01:03:06
call Lundy? Uh which I you know tried to hold you up on a terrible person. >> Yeah.
01:03:12
>> Yeah. Um Ray were >> I mean even even Raya had like you know redeeming qualities honestly. Um but
01:03:22
yeah what a what a you know let's just say it like it is. He was a terrible person. And the other
01:03:28
one was Jesse Kempson. >> Oh the Grace Main. >> Yeah the Grace Main. I mean The you know
01:03:34
the terrible thing about him was the parallel with pulking horn. It was this it was
01:03:42
>> what same lawyer the death of death. >> Oh there is that it was the after
01:03:46
deathath conduct they call it what we know did >> with with grace and which he never
01:03:52
denied was just so awful so terrible. Um and and one of the terrors of the Pulkinghorn trial was what the the
01:04:03
prosecution were basically saying >> what he you know in their version of events what he must have done with
01:04:10
Pauline after she had died and this whole sort of rigmarole of of transporting the body and maneuvering
01:04:18
the body which we know Kempson did cuz he never denied that. And of course, Phil Pulking wants you, well, I didn't a
01:04:25
I didn't kill my wife and b I I didn't do all these gruesome things to stage a
01:04:31
suicide. >> But yeah, that was the parallel. >> What sort of if I mean it may not have
01:04:36
had any, but what sort of impact has has all following all these cases so closely
01:04:40
had on your mental health? Like I'm thinking of like jurors that get selected for a big case, they generally
01:04:46
get like a an exemption for maybe life after that to be called up for jury service ever again. And you're sort of
01:04:50
willingly >> putting yourself in these positions. >> None. >> No.
01:04:57
>> None. Negligible. No. Uh you know um >> cuz you're just able to separate
01:05:06
yourself from the >> you do separate yourself. You you are you are separate from the story. You are
01:05:13
not the story. It would be um a terrible sort of arrogance in a way to think that
01:05:19
you were you know you're sitting in courtroom with people you know the families or closely tied widows people
01:05:28
like that of of the accused and the and the victim >> they're the ones who are living it. It
01:05:35
would be remiss of me to to say that I'm living it too. >> So you know it's had negligible effect.
01:05:42
There was there had been a time uh fairly quite recently where I thought ah I just couldn't do it anymore. It was
01:05:51
just quite a bit too bleak. It wasn't it wasn't derailing me in any sense. I just
01:05:57
thought I need to do something else. >> Um and then just as I thought that
01:06:02
poking horn came along. >> You're like one more. One more. >> Yeah.
01:06:08
>> There's always going to be one more, isn't there? >> I don't think so. I know it's a good
01:06:12
point to make, but no, I don't think so. This was and and that's a that's a
01:06:18
comment on the unusuality and uniqueness of this particular trial. >> You know, there had never been anything
01:06:26
like that one before. >> Mhm. >> Nothing. >> Yeah. >> You know, like sometimes you like catch
01:06:32
yourself thinking, "Oh, am I imagining it?" you know, am I am I just like some
01:06:36
sort of news hack who is inflating it or conflating it into something bigger than
01:06:43
it is? And then, you know, you'd be having a yarn with a prosecutor or somebody or someone like that and they
01:06:48
go, "Criy, you know, never been anything like this, has there?" And you go, "Wow,
01:06:52
you think that, too?" And everybody thought it >> who was involved with the case. Um,
01:06:59
so highly unlikely there will be, you know, another one like it. Yeah, there will always be another murder trial.
01:07:07
>> Um, >> nothing like this one. Nothing. Nothing. It was um it was so vivid
01:07:18
and so um so middle class. >> Middle class. >> Yeah. I would have thought more sort of upper
01:07:29
class >> like you talk in the book about him selling um like a is it a Macan a Colin
01:07:35
Macan painting to pay for the legal fees which were a couple of million dollars and it does make me wonder like you
01:07:40
mentioned you talk about Lundy before if if he had the access to pay for say a Ron Mansfield or I suppose it would have
01:07:46
been a Greg King at the time or Mike Mike Bang whoever it happened to be like would he have
01:07:51
>> no he had access to >> perhaps the first trial lawyer was a bit lacking But in the retrial, he had a guy
01:07:59
called David Hisop, >> then a QC, um, New Zealand guy who was living in London. And man, did that guy fight. He
01:08:08
put up a really good defense of him. I thought it was a sterling job. And, um, he must have come close,
01:08:17
>> you know, to getting that one over the line. >> Um, don't think he could have done better at
01:08:23
that time really. Uh, I thought he was superb, his lop. He did such interesting things, you know. He I often think about
01:08:31
this one particular thing, Dom, where um it was it was I've never I'd never seen
01:08:38
anything quite like that. They the prosecution called one of the witnesses and it was
01:08:49
the office off officer in charge of the murder investigation. So he arrives in court and he's got like a lackey with
01:09:00
him and the lackey's job he's got one of those sort of wheelbarrows with all these documents thousands of
01:09:08
documents you know he's rides in full uniform sits himself there in the witness box
01:09:16
the lackey is there stacking these boxes so he can refer to them you know prosecution examines him. Doesn't take
01:09:26
that long. You know, there we got to say just a few things, few damning things and that's it.
01:09:35
Reason he's brought them in is for the defense cross exam. He's knows he's
01:09:38
going to get flailed within an inch of his life and he's come prepared and his lop goes up to him strokes.
01:09:49
How's it going? Yeah, pretty good. Thank you. H Okay. And uh you were officer in charge, weren't you? Yes.
01:10:00
Yes, I was. Right. Oh, thank you for coming in. It's a condensed version, but that is pretty much it. The lackey
01:10:15
reappears. Have to whistle him out. He'd left the courtroom for the day. whistle
01:10:20
him back in to stack these things again. And the guy was out and and um you know
01:10:27
you his lot was not doing a terrifically good job of concealing a little smirk, >> you know. And I said, "What'd you do
01:10:35
that for?" He said, "I didn't need him. We didn't need him, you know."
01:10:41
>> And uh but he loved the comedy of it. He loved the drama of it. Everyone was like
01:10:46
prepared for days and days. I wouldn't then say that it backfired because he didn't get the verdict that
01:10:54
he wanted, but um yeah, sorry. The point is um um Lundy was able to engage him and he
01:11:03
did a great job and it made no difference that he was a workingclass stiff as opposed to
01:11:09
>> to to Phil who um could afford um Ron Mansfield and Mansfield did do a great
01:11:16
job. Um, all the same. Uh, I called him middle class. I mean, I don't He's not
01:11:23
like rich list rich. >> No, >> you know, >> no, no, no. But if you've if you've got
01:11:30
artwork that you can sell to pay for your millions of dollars of legal fees, you're doing better than most.
01:11:34
>> He's doing pretty well. >> He is doing pretty well. >> But, um,
01:11:40
>> he can afford that sweet puff. >> There's the slogan on his meth pipe,
01:11:47
right? The slogan on the meth pipes. >> Well, Pauline's Pauline's meth pipe, but
01:11:51
he never smoked it. >> That's right. >> Yeah. So, what do you what do your days
01:11:56
look like now? >> What's an average day for Steve Bronny? >> Oh, I work hard.
01:12:00
>> Yep. Just write. >> Oh, yeah. I write and I interview. I work from home.
01:12:05
>> Uh been a slight sort of change in my career setup. Um >> uh was made redundant by the Herald back
01:12:13
in April, May or something like that. Um but it was it's not a vast sort of difference. Uh the entire time I had
01:12:22
been with them which was for 10 years uh I worked for them three days a week not
01:12:27
the whole five so I could do other things. Um I'm the books editor of a section called newsroom and that takes
01:12:35
up a lot of my time. Um this book uh took up a lot of time and continues to do so mentally. You know, I think about
01:12:44
it a lot honestly. Uh, and so yeah, I I uh now do um freelancing. >> Think about it a lot
01:12:52
>> for the listener magazine. >> Think about it a lot in what way? >> Like the book itself or the trial?
01:12:57
>> Both. Both. >> Um, yeah, it's um it's h it's never far away from my
01:13:10
thoughts. And I don't mean that in any kind of like I'm haunted. M >> way
01:13:16
um just you know the role that you have that I I had to play in in in that as uh
01:13:25
watching the trial and writing about it for the herald at the time and then writing this book subsequently
01:13:32
>> that's you know it's a I don't know if it's an important role
01:13:38
>> but certainly a responsible one >> you know Um, and it's a test.
01:13:47
>> Um, it's a test and and I often sort of think about how did I go with that test? You know, I I I have a
01:13:58
sort of a uh totalitarian view of life in some ways that I think it's like a constant test
01:14:10
and You know, we're passing or we're failing each godamn day, which sounds like a
01:14:17
rather joyless existence when I put it like that. >> Yeah, it does. >> How are you doing? Are you passing
01:14:25
>> today? >> In general. >> Oh, I never think about the in general.
01:14:30
It's always it's always like day by day. >> Right now. Right now. And um
01:14:38
>> you know after I go home from this I I'll I'll be worrying about how did how
01:14:44
did I get on with the test of this podcast with Dom? Gee, I shouldn't have said that. And oh, he probably thought I
01:14:50
was a total phony when I said that. Uh right now though, um I'm enjoying it tremendously.
01:14:57
>> I'm enjoying it too. I'm loving it. Um I don't know how we got to the London
01:15:01
stuff. We took a detour before. Yeah, we were talking about your daughter. There
01:15:04
there was another line actually a couple of lines from a couple of columns um which which I loved. Um yeah, lately
01:15:12
I've I've taken to wandering into her bedroom to experience the really great
01:15:15
feeling of my heart breaking into little pieces. So what's what's in the bedroom
01:15:19
now? >> Is it still is it like a is it still made up the way she left it or have you
01:15:25
commandeered it as a an office or it >> No, I haven't commandeered it. It's
01:15:30
still her bedroom and um it's it's not a shrine or anything like that. Uh
01:15:39
you know it's pretty much as as she left it >> but um was the breaking my heart breaking into
01:15:48
little pieces. Was it was that in the context of she's left home now? >> I think that was before she left home.
01:15:54
So you're just imagining how it's going to feel. >> Oh gee. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well
01:15:58
that that prediction came to pass. >> How um the these these these columns,
01:16:05
they're lovely. It's like a a snapshot of um your your relationship with her
01:16:09
through the years. >> Um yeah. Does she does she is she at that does she like them or is she at
01:16:14
that age where she's >> Oh, yeah. She's been she's been reading
01:16:18
them for years. Yeah, she's she's she's quite conscious of them. Um >> I think she likes them. Um
01:16:28
yeah. Yeah, I think she likes them. She um she's studying law at at Otago and
01:16:35
I'm sure she's going to be very good at that. But um you know there's a there's a it's not a
01:16:43
disappointment but yeah it's not that strong but I you know I definitely wished
01:16:52
I I I had hoped I had wishes that she would go into writing because you know everybody who
01:17:00
reads avidly and she was you know she's a big reader likes to write >> and her own writing at school was was
01:17:09
sensational honestly. Yeah. I remember once I took her aside and said, "Look, we need to have a
01:17:16
serious talk here. Um, this thing you've written is so good that you've plagiarized it, haven't you?
01:17:25
You've it's someone else's writing." And she said, "What are you talking about?"
01:17:30
And it was it was Yeah, it was chillingly good. She's very very gifted, very fluent,
01:17:36
um, thoughtful, good words, good sentences. Well, you know, I I guess that's all
01:17:42
going to come in in in very effective use as a lawyer. >> What sort of law does she want to do?
01:17:49
>> She doesn't know quite yet. Yes, just first year. >> Interesting. Um, this is probably over
01:17:54
analyzing or >> possibly criminal. >> Yeah, possibly. Well, in in a in a sense
01:17:58
like this again probably overthinking it, but um yeah, maybe that's something
01:18:02
to make you proud >> cuz she knows what a you know what a big interest it is for you.
01:18:07
>> Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I I've introduced her to the odd um prosecutor,
01:18:13
>> you know, uh she's come into court >> not during a trial. Um just so happened,
01:18:20
you know, I said, "Oh, come in. Come in and see what it's like." And you know,
01:18:24
she did a couple of times and both times it was like in recess or something like
01:18:28
that. >> Um, but she got a little feel of it. Um, oh, you know, she what whatever you
01:18:34
know, whatever she does or whatever she doesn't, you know, I'm terrifically
01:18:40
proud of my kid. Yeah. Love it to pieces. >> Doesn't have to do anything.
01:18:46
>> What would you say your best and worst habits are? best habit would be um my work ethic.
01:18:56
>> Um and my general sort of busyiness, you know. Um uh my girlfriend refers to it as tasks.
01:19:06
Oh, there you are doing your tasks. So I never I basically almost never sit still. I'm like doing tasks around the
01:19:16
house, the housework, various bits and pieces. >> Active relaxer it's called these days.
01:19:20
>> Yeah, pardon. >> It's there's a label for it. It's called
01:19:22
active relaxing. >> Active relaxing. >> Yeah. It's like a form of uh often um
01:19:27
yeah considered a form of like ADHD. >> You and your phrases. >> Is that a Michelle Obama one?
01:19:36
>> No, it's well known actor. >> Terrible. I really like you, but I do
01:19:39
seem to be giving you digs every now and then, but they're affectionate. I assure
01:19:43
you. >> I like that. I like it. >> Um uh so that that would be my my best
01:19:49
habit that I'm manically busy >> and and like to achieve things. Worst
01:19:54
habit. Oh, I guess it's related really. Uh anxiety. I'm very anxious person.
01:20:00
>> Yeah. Is that a habit? >> It's a trait, I guess. >> It's a trait or a defect.
01:20:06
>> Yeah. What's your like what's your inner voice in a critic like?
01:20:09
>> Oh, worst habit would be losing things. That that's a that's a habit. Yeah. I
01:20:13
can't find anything. Yeah, I I you know, I said before that, you know, I have
01:20:17
like no memory. >> Oh, where did I put that thing a minute ago? And I can't even picture it.
01:20:24
>> No memory. >> You don't even drive, so you don't even have car keys to lose.
01:20:28
>> That's one less thing. One less thing, isn't it? >> Yeah.
01:20:33
>> Are you um When was the last time you cried? Was it when you dropped your
01:20:36
daughter off at the airport? Are you Are you quite an emotion? Do you find you're
01:20:39
getting yourself more emotional as you get older? cried five minutes ago. >> Um,
01:20:46
yeah. I'm very emotional. I'm very weepy person. >> Always been that way or is that
01:20:49
>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. >> Very weepy. >> What about fears? What are you afraid
01:20:55
of? >> Oh, a lot. >> Back to the anxiety. >> Oh, a great deal. Um, no fears of uh the
01:21:07
bigger things like like death >> or whatever. Um oh lots of fears you know um
01:21:16
[Music] it's an anxiety slashfear of of a moment's inattention >> and a moment's forgetfulness and what
01:21:27
consequences of that might be >> that's got to be related to why I don't
01:21:32
drive right >> I I I I sometimes like dream >> about oh I'm driving
01:21:40
And the next thing, you know, I'll I'll I'll forget what I'm doing. I, you know,
01:21:46
my mind will wander and and I'm steering off the road in in the dream and killing
01:21:53
someone. >> Jeez. >> Yeah. >> Do you have any regrets? >> Oh, tons.
01:22:02
>> Yeah. >> Well, I think you got anyone that says they they don't have any hasn't lived
01:22:07
much of a life. >> The too few to mention line. Um, oh yes, no. Lots from from
01:22:15
from since whenever. >> What about future goals? >> H yes. Yes. Um, I um I have this like probably
01:22:40
unachievable ambition or goal that I'm living in a um extremely small town and all I'm doing is reading,
01:22:53
gardening, which I absolutely love indoor plants, vegetable patch, and sleeping. And I'm not writing anything.
01:23:06
That's a that's a goal. That's me like a like a um like a uh like I've fixed
01:23:17
the curse. I've lifted the curse of writing. >> Is it a realistic dream?
01:23:23
>> No. >> No, probably not. M >> oh, you never know. Um, so I have that
01:23:30
goal. That's something to sort of look forward to. You know, it's like a even
01:23:34
if it's unattain unattainable, it gives me a a kind of a piece. >> Um, because, you know, I mean, obviously
01:23:42
I, you know, I I I love writing. I like it a great deal. I enjoy it. It's so
01:23:48
interesting. It's you know the continual puzzle of it and you never solve it but you um find
01:24:00
some nice arrangements >> I think but apart from all that you know it is agitating
01:24:10
you know it's agitating because the form in which I writing which which is journalism it's about
01:24:16
real life and real people It's not fiction. It's not made up. It's not talking about people who don't
01:24:25
exist. It's talking about people who damn well do exist. >> And often in very extreme circumstances
01:24:34
and private circumstances which have been made public, i.e. murder trials. >> Yeah.
01:24:39
>> All sorts of things. All interviews are you know obviously do with people
01:24:43
>> and and so that's agitating you know. And I I have this sort of um um urge to um
01:24:57
make the writing uh um as kind of uh if this is the right way of putting it, it's kind of lifelike
01:25:06
>> uh as possible. So it's lifelike to what I actually think about someone or something
01:25:16
and the way uh that that person um is is is seen I suppose and um you know you're inviting a whole world
01:25:30
of trouble in in that you know like you know some sometimes the consequences are
01:25:37
nice though and it's not like like I'm a bad guy always writing bad things. Not
01:25:41
at all. But um and you know there are nice consequences. The other day I wrote a uh
01:25:48
I have this weekly series called The Secret Diary >> and you're essentially choosing the one
01:25:54
person who's been in the news most that week who's done something remarkable.
01:26:00
Last week was pretty easy. Uh the big news maker of the week was that fell Ian Taylor. open letter to just ad which you
01:26:08
know it was huge. um oh wow I'll write a secret uh letter that he's written as a satire
01:26:20
and uh get this email few days later uh from Ian Taylor and he oh is open up the attachment
01:26:35
and um what he did is that he wrote a uh a response to my um parody of him >> and it's it's
01:26:47
put it this way. He's been a really good sport about it and the thing he's
01:26:51
written is it it's like an open letter to me like dear Steve. >> It's pretty funny. I have to I give him
01:27:00
credit for that. It's pretty funny. >> He uh he totally took it on the chin.
01:27:06
He's laughed it off. uh he's responded to it in in very good kindness, you
01:27:12
know, and uh yes, I've published it >> as a result at Newsroom. >> Fantastic.
01:27:19
>> Do Yeah. Do do you people that you write about, do you with your anxiety, do you
01:27:23
worry about what they're going to say like this this Pinghorn book, like do you worry about what Pauline's family or
01:27:28
friends or Philip himself will think of it? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Um
01:27:34
>> well, it's good that you keep putting yourself out there in spite of that.
01:27:38
Yeah, >> because it could be really debilitating. >> Yeah, I um it is worrying. Um you know, in a in a
01:27:48
in a a book in particular, you know, um seems to have a greater sort of concentration of worry about it,
01:27:58
>> you know, with something that you write for the newspapers. At least it's like
01:28:05
it's there and then it's gone. >> Mhm. >> You know, the agenda moves on,
01:28:11
yesterday's papers, all that kind of thing. Um, you know, I I had this series once. I
01:28:18
was at the Sunday Star Times and I was writing a profile of somebody every week, the news maker of the week. and
01:28:27
they'd be quite long form sort of interviews and that I'd write them up and send them in on a Friday, they'd be
01:28:36
published on a Sunday and the Saturday was just hell. >> You know, the story had gone. It was
01:28:42
about to be published. You couldn't stop it. >> So, every Saturday, and I think it went
01:28:46
on, I did the series for maybe 18 months, 20 months, >> was just a nightmare of like worrying
01:28:54
like why did I do that? Why did I write that >> about this person? And um I don't
01:29:02
remember what the consequences were. I I don't know if anyone like went ballistic
01:29:06
or or whatever. Um I think I got sued. I probably remember that, wouldn't I?
01:29:14
>> Unless you were shielded. Shielded by the company. >> Yeah. Oh, it's not much of a shield
01:29:19
actually. You'd get dragged into it if they were. I don't think the company
01:29:23
ever got sued as a result of those those profiles. But um yes, you did well to pick out that quote
01:29:31
about um was it I live an agitated life. >> Was that what it was? >> Yeah. Where was that?
01:29:37
>> That was a good one. >> Yeah. I seem to prefer the agitated life. Always putting myself in
01:29:41
situations where happiness seldom remains stable and I find a way to complicate it.
01:29:44
>> Bloody hell. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This this this young man here.
01:29:48
>> Yeah. How how is he the same and how is he different to the man sitting in front
01:29:52
of me today? >> Uh Dom's just handed over a photograph of me at the age of 28.
01:30:01
>> I am sitting in a chair wearing a sleeveless pullover, thinking very hard
01:30:07
and pressing the rubber end of a pencil against my forehead. Um, >> thanks for that by the way for
01:30:17
>> for sure >> for the listeners. >> Um, and I'm very thin thinner even than now.
01:30:27
>> You look look a bit like Art Garcle. >> Do you think so? >> Um,
01:30:33
yes. I was uh yeah, editor of a a small newspaper in Wellington called Capital Times. We had
01:30:41
our our offices in a uh building in Mount Victoria and above the offices uh the landlord had uh a bowling alley
01:30:56
which he'd abandoned and um when I was stuck for a story I would do two things. one caught there in
01:31:05
the act of pressing a pencil against my head to think about things deeply or I would go upstairs and bowl by myself and
01:31:14
um after really late hours and I'd be bowling at 3:00 a.m. >> deserted ghostly bowling alley.
01:31:27
>> Um but your question was what was I like then? >> Yeah. How are you the that guy there in
01:31:33
his 20s? >> How is he the same as you now? And how is he different? [Music]
01:31:41
>> Still the same work ethic. >> Yeah, I was real busy then. >> Yeah, that's that's that's the same. Um
01:31:49
Oh, he had a cat. I have a cat. He was crazy about that cat. I'm crazy about my
01:31:56
cat. um he was a um a lot more uh hostile >> character than than I am with with age.
01:32:10
Um you know, I'm often like consciously saying to myself, uh don't pick that
01:32:17
fight, >> put that axe down, walk away from that knife >> constantly.
01:32:26
Whereas previously that guy like where's the axe? >> I know it's already I left it somewhere.
01:32:33
Damn it. >> Got to go for it. Um it's, you know, I justified it. There's no justification
01:32:40
for whatsoever really, but I justified it because it seemed to fit the um what I thought then of the spirit
01:32:46
>> of the times. Wellington in the 1980s was a pretty um tough, edgy >> kind of place. Uh unemployment was high.
01:32:56
They were forever knocking down buildings that seemed to be like a hobby of property developers. So there was
01:33:01
always this sort of sense of uncertainty. You were being screwed over by by Moldun, the Spring Bach tour. Of
01:33:08
course, everyone, it seems sort of mandatory to hate the cops back then. I don't now. I'm big fan of them. As a
01:33:16
matter of fact, this guy would be appalled at me in so many ways. >> Um >> just anti-establishment in a way.
01:33:24
>> Yeah. Yeah, just anti anti a lot of things, you know. Um yeah. Um I was very
01:33:33
un unsettled. Um sort of person. Um now I'm more sort of settled and um content and plump.
01:33:49
>> Oh, that's uncharitable. I think um that's a perk of getting older. to if
01:33:54
you choose to get soft around the edges, which is a nice way to live your life. >> Oh, it is. It it it it is. Yeah. Um
01:34:02
I don't know. I mean, I still haven't by any means given up on the um acts of
01:34:11
um unexpected hostility really in my writing in particular. Yeah. >> Yeah.
01:34:18
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I was often getting in like fights as well, physical fights. Mhm.
01:34:24
>> Yeah. That's never good. Never good in your 60s. >> Not a good
01:34:27
>> And actually at any age. At any age. Um, last one. Steve Bronny. Are you proud of
01:34:31
yourself? [Laughter] >> That's not a resounding yes, is it? Uh, >> no. I I I I I um
01:34:46
I have a body of I have a body of work. What a pompous phrase. H 14 books is a body of work.
01:34:55
>> I've written a ton of stuff and um I think some of it's okay, you know. Um
01:35:05
I think one of the things that I I've realized uh with my writing is that you I've I've tried to write the things
01:35:14
that I wanted to read. you know, I wanted to read about Poking Horn, for instance,
01:35:23
and the best way I could go about that was to write it, you know. I liked the way
01:35:32
>> um I read what I was writing about it. Of course, I admired the the the
01:35:39
standard daily news reporting of it, very good summaries and all that, >> but I wanted something else. And so I
01:35:46
wrote it >> and I quite like reading it, you know. >> Um so yeah, I I I've I've come some way
01:35:56
towards um writing the kinds of things I wanted to read. >> And I wasn't doing that for a long time.
01:36:03
I was trying and trying and you just got to kind of get a little bit more mature
01:36:09
and a bit more wised up, a lot more tolerant and um a lot less um reactive >> to things too and to sort of think about
01:36:19
things a bit more. >> Um >> that was a largely career-based answer. Are you proud of yourself as as a
01:36:28
person? H >> I had Michael Galvin, you know, Chris Warner from Shortland Street. I had him
01:36:36
on the podcast. >> Teric fell beginning of the year. Yeah, I asked him that question. He was like,
01:36:40
"Well, not ashamed of myself." Which was an interesting answer. But yeah, I bring
01:36:44
him up because there's parallels with you and him. He's just become a empty
01:36:47
neester. His daughter uh recently left home and it was just heartbreaking the way he spoke about about that occasion.
01:36:54
>> What's he like? Is he a sweet boy? I mean, I know he's he's my age. What is
01:36:58
he >> your age? >> Mid-50s, late 50s. >> Lovely. Yeah. >> I met him at the suppose the height of
01:37:05
his fame >> in the first 10 years of Chris Warner. What a sweet boy. >> Really nice fell.
01:37:11
>> Um, what did he say? I'm not ashamed of myself. >> Yeah. Yeah, that was his answer. Which
01:37:16
Yeah. >> I wouldn't even go that far. Mhm. >> Um [Music] Oh, I I'm I'm um
01:37:32
I think I'm a I think I'm a good good dad. >> You know, I love my kid to bits.
01:37:39
>> Yeah, >> I adore seeing her. Um um I guess I've realized uh well not
01:37:50
realized but come to think of myself maybe uh with with Mark's death and spending a lot of time with family is
01:37:57
that I'm not a bad brother, >> you know. Um Oh yeah, that's that's one thing. Since
01:38:06
since Mark died, uh I've become the um administrator of his estate, which has a sort of a another dimension
01:38:17
to it because he's an artist and so kind of administering his his his art career
01:38:24
postumously. And um I'm guided this by what would Mark want? What would Mark
01:38:35
like? This is this is doing good by Mark and I'm trying to trying to keep within
01:38:41
those those guidelines of what what he would think. And occasionally I'll I'll
01:38:46
do something or make a decision and he'll I'll hear him going bloody stupid
01:38:52
idiot. But um I I'm I'm I'm taking some pride in that. I think I'm doing an okay job
01:39:01
honestly with with Mark and his artistic legacy. Um, and yeah, I I I I'm I'm now a sort of a
01:39:11
at 65. Uh uh you may think this is like a me assessing my professional situation,
01:39:21
>> but at 65 I I I think I can regard myself as an elder elder figure in New Zealand uh
01:39:32
journalism and um I have a certain kind of pride in that and as much you know I'm I'm still
01:39:43
writing Uh I think I'm still writing. Okay. >> And that is um I don't make any
01:39:53
distinction between that being a a certain kind of professional pride and a personal pride. You know, I I've managed
01:40:02
to sort of hold it together as a person who can function emotionally with all my sort of
01:40:11
agitations and anxieties. and shames and fears and regrets to be able to not so much set all that
01:40:21
aside but for that to be part of the way >> that I write and the way I approach
01:40:28
things. It's with a sort of an understanding of all these um fragilities that I have.
01:40:35
>> Um >> I think yeah I think you're doing some of the best work of your career.
01:40:40
It's like a lifetime of experience. That's you're going into the words now
01:40:44
in a way. >> They used to have this thing at the uh the journalism awards. Done away with
01:40:51
it. Really cruel. It's called a lifetime achievement award, you know, and and
01:40:57
after I turn 60, I go along think, oh, you know, love to win that one. Um it's a shame they've canned it, but um
01:41:07
>> You never got one? >> No. was I was kind of they was giving it to people in their 80s and oh they're
01:41:13
too bloody old. I don't really appreciate it. Um no I'm being silly but um I I I really did have ambitions to um
01:41:23
>> to win that one because you know it's been a what is it 40 45 years
01:41:29
>> in the in the trade and um uh you talked about goals before. Well, I suppose I I I have I I I do nurse
01:41:38
goals that I will write a a memoir >> and I want it to be published in um 2030
01:41:50
by which stage I'll be uh what's that? 70, right? >> Yep. >> And uh it'll be my 50th year
01:41:59
uh in journalism. This is all assuming that a I'm alive and b I'm still, you
01:42:04
know, employed or being paid to write >> uh things within that genre. And yeah, I
01:42:09
want I want to be able to call it 50 years a hack. I think it's a really good
01:42:14
title. >> It's wonderful. I'd buy it. >> You'd buy that?
01:42:17
>> A lot of people would. Yeah. Really? 100%. >> Hey, this has been fun today. We've been
01:42:22
Jeez, I just looked at the time and we've been going for two and a half hours.
01:42:24
>> I know. Crazy, right? Yeah. Blimey. >> How's it been for you? Is it is it um is
01:42:29
it like extracting teeth, talking about yourself for this length or is it has been cathartic?
01:42:35
>> None of those things. >> Oh, all of those things and other things
01:42:39
too. It's been very confronting. M >> um um you sort of pivoted not quite halfway
01:42:47
but after halfway uh to talking about myself >> and um you do it in such a way with your sort
01:42:56
of natural sincerity that I can tell you, you know, you you don't do it as a
01:43:03
phony. You're not after a sound bite. you're actually wanting to have some
01:43:06
sort of conversation and and and trying to get at who I am and the way I express myself. And with all that, it it
01:43:15
has made me feel extremely vulnerable. And I've uh tried to kind of uh respect
01:43:22
that and meet that and um talk to you in more sort of open and honest ways than I normally talk to people.
01:43:35
>> Well, I appreciate that. It's been really nice to meet. This is the first
01:43:38
time we've met, but I'm very familiar with your work, having been a victim of
01:43:42
it and a well-deserved victim of it and just a a fan of your work as well. I wasn't sure how we were going to get
01:43:49
on today, but um I've loved it. It's been really cool. >> Thank you, Dom.
01:43:54
>> Steve Brorius, thank you so much for being a guest on my podcast. We're going
01:43:58
to hug when we stand. Are you a hugger? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We When we stand up, we're going
01:44:02
to we're going to hug >> for sure. Get into it.