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giving me lamby welcome to my podcast thanks for having me Dom opportun thank you for the opportunity thank you for
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making some time on Friday are you kidding me no thank you so much um I'm I bumped into you at a clothing store
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called as you were and I was like um it was probably quite rude to me the first thing I said was hey come on my podcast
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and then we swapped numbers and um yeah I I'm I'm humbled that you're here thank
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you I mean I suppose that's how the best moments happen when just off the cuff
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and uh and this is where we we end up so thanks for having me D yeah I know I I I
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appreciate it um I um I I founded around different people have had on the podcast
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that are former teammates of yours and people that know you to try and get some um you know dirt or some Icebreaker
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stories every single person uh to the last man had nothing but nice words to say about you um like this is from Zack
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Guilford yes who you played with for a short time yes uh K is the nicest guy in the world I aspire to be a kind soul
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like him not an egotistical bone in his body literally the nicest guy I've ever
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played with no real Yar sorry just a top man oh and everyone says the same thing
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about you I um I spend a bit of money um just making sure everyone was prepared for the call coming from you Dom so um
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oh no it's a man what it's uh I feel really proud being able to hear that
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from my um my peers my mates so that's a cool that's cool how how how do you you
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um balance being um just a super nice guy without being taken advantage of um I get ask that often you know I was
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talking to someone the other day we were doing like a discovery piece just there's uh some work we were doing uh
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just about to go on LinkedIn and they uh were asking about this is you as a person and what do you see as like a a
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fault or um see something that people wouldn't like about you and I think that's it is like people think it I'm
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too nice um but I always think to myself Dom that's that's my choice it's my
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choice to be that way and I think if you ever if you ever saw me play a sport um
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it's just as easy as crossing the line that's how that's how it is you know um
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yeah so I think people people in their minds think uh probably too nice but that's a choice I choose to I choose to
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think that way and uh treat people that way um but you know it's it's just like
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anything in life when you cross the line you cross the line oh yeah cuz you you were a bad man on the field like you
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were a yeah like you hurt people you were you were intimidating you are a you are you a ferocious
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monster on the field I like that you said that though cuz you know when most people see me on the road they're like
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geez you're smaller than what that you look like on TV I'm like damn it no but
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I I just wonder if it's um if it's had when you so like do you are are you here
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today because you want to be here or you find it hard to say no to things because
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you are such a nice guy uh I'm all about opportunities in life and um this was a cool opportunity D
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like I've uh been lucky enough to watch a few of your podcasts and they of that
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quality and um yeah so I think being here today is a privilege and um and I was I was working in town today as well
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so just all worked out worked out good okay um so you're um you're a Catholic
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he happy in your entire life um so I was um sort of Born and Raised I'm Catholic
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as well but I'm I'm not sort of practicing anymore but do you like do you get a confession um you got fishing
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and stuff I'm a i a Catholic and um sometimes the the look I get from um our
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church members um are like are you do you just come for the special dates for Christmas for
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Easter um I had this I had a really cool experience months uh one of the first time I went to Rome and playing um uh in
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Italy for the first time our first test match there and um on the way home from uh team dinner popped into one of the
00:03:56
churches there and um really cool experience you know um I think when you're growing up it's one
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of those things that you can you never have it as a things you can take off but actually um being a Christian and a
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Catholic it's pretty cool and so popping in there um went in and uh they had
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confession on so you know I popped through and um I suppose you don't talk about everything you talk about in
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confession but I did say that I was um gut that I couldn't be a church more and
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one of the things that the uh the father said to me is you know it's in here it's
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your relationship that you have with God so sort of opened up my eyes a little bit we can't always can't always be a
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church but it's with that heart and um where your mind is being grateful and
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that is really important to me and how I have that relationship as well it's such
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a cool story and was there were you there were some teammates was there like a cluster of um All Blacks at the time
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that were Church goinging oh there was me that um stopped through and um I think Jerry stopped in for a little bit
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as well Jerry Collins the late Jerry Collins rest in peace yes so um I think on all the teams I've played in that
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that's it's probably been a thread that's been there the whole time even
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when I first started playing so Michael Jones was a big part of uh my career uh especially the start and iron Clark so
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had some really good guidance from the beginning and they were just guys that are you know just I think it's really
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important as we go through our careers you just being happy staying with who you are be true to who you are right yes
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so when what sort of things do you what do you have to confess is it like losing
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your temper or what what is it I like I just can't imagine you having much to say in that
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Booth uh d by no way am I perfect and uh like every like every person every Christian we uh we have our faults so um
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yeah that's that's me just um trying to make good with who I am and um yeah just
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always on the always trying to look to be better um but there are days that you know it doesn't look like that you know
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You Know M yeah yeah well how can how can I or anyone that's watching or listening to this be more like Kevin
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Mamu I just it's a good question I actually think just um be happy with who you are you know um I always think of we
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always thought about this as an all black which is um it used to be a time when we played um for the or blacks and
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it was it was a burden uh that pressure never winning a World Cup in such a long
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time and then having the opportunity to sit down look at some things and um have
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a chat about this is a privileged position we we're getting a chance to represent our country our family our
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friends um and not many people get to do this so I think just looking at from that lens this is it's a cool
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opportunity we get we get the choice we we get to make a choice on how we get to
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see things and um that's probably who I think people can look to it's your
00:06:56
choice you get to choose who you are and if you're happy with who you are be that
00:07:00
person um as a rugby player as an a former old black you get criticism you know um but
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how you take that you know so it's always that lens I I think I have a lens on life people think it's probably a bit
00:07:13
too positive but that's my choice that's where I choose to live got got no time
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to live in the got no time to live in the past or things that are holding me down no I love that so much and it's
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like it's it's working for you and it's working for everyone around you as I
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said no one's no one has a bad word to say about I you know you're doing something right
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if the only criticism people can come up with is that you're too nice or you're
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too positive right that's a really good thing thank you thank you yeah so um so
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your your last game was um the Rugby World Cup Final in 2015 um same time as Richie mcco played this last game as
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well actually a bunch of guys played the last game so um what does life look like
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now how's how has life looked since then um life's been good it's been
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challenging as well I always say um especially if you've been doing something like people talk about talk
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about it as um when rugby players finish life's quite hard cuz you're trying to
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find your way but I probably challenge him and say it's hard for anyone that's
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done something and put a lot of time and energy into something for a long time so
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the challenges I think it's it's definitely that Discovery piece what do
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you look like away from your sport or from rugby and that's probably what I've
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been working on that's what life looks like for me probably the first part of
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it was discovering who I am where do I how do I fit back into Family Life how do I fit back into Community
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cuz that changes you know you've been a part of a team for such a long time and
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the guys that you've played alongside that's who you see daily and that changed um even little things like the
00:08:45
things we take for granted how you how you take a take a plate back when you when you live in hotels a lot just put
00:08:52
them at the door you know so you know you can't do that at home walking away
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from the walking away from the D table living your plate there often got a thrown at the back of my
00:09:01
head so I think it's these little Discovery Pieces Just understanding what that looks like and so for me been in
00:09:07
the fitness industry for the last 10 years um and when we talk talk about where I've come from in sport it's you
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discover that it's about when youve doing something that you that's got purpose that you always do it better so
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that working in that industry has giv me the chance giving my wife the chance to
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be able to um add value to our community keeping people moving um building Community because
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that's that's meant a whole lot to us so it's been the fitness industry uh it's
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been working in my brother's uh security company as well and watching um his
00:09:44
success for being a part being a part of um helping build that as well and uh as of late you know as of
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March this year um an owner an insurance broker so protect for life is what I'm
00:09:57
doing it's still aligned with all the work that I do which is around people looking after them giving them peace of
00:10:03
mind um so I'm really privileged to be working around around and alongside some
00:10:08
great people and I'm just I'm still on that curve just constantly trying to
00:10:13
trying to be better have bad days but hey get a chance to get up the next day and and go back at it again yeah what
00:10:19
does a bad day look like for you well a bad day might look like um when you're when you're day are
00:10:26
preparing for fight for life and you fight found that find out that you got a high condition um and that changes
00:10:32
everything it just it changes one of the things that former covers being able to
00:10:36
exercise yeah and when you can't do that to the capacity that you enjoy doing
00:10:41
that and you have to look at things a little bit differently um it starts with a bad day and then you realize that
00:10:49
actually I'm still here I found this out early and uh I've got the opportunity to
00:10:55
do something about it well that's the that's the other side of it that's
00:10:57
looking through the right lens I yeah so are you on um medication for the heart or do you have to just watch what
00:11:04
you eat or you can't exercise too hard or what does it mean um it means yeah
00:11:08
I'm on medication yeah um better blockers and um and blood thinners you know so you know obviously they sort of
00:11:16
change the the chemicals in your body so every time I I look at myself I'm like
00:11:21
man that's not where I want to be um I don't know I think you're looking great and there always you
00:11:27
always harder on yourself right yeah yeah but um yeah just trying to adjust to that I don't really want to be on
00:11:33
medication for the rest of my life I want to be able to hopefully look after my diet my exercise that I can go and
00:11:39
live long lives like um and enjoy that with alongside My Wife and Kids yeah so how many fights did you I didn't know
00:11:46
anything about the heart thing but um I did a lot of reading and researching for
00:11:49
this um did you get to fight at all you were fighting wangy copu are you talking
00:11:53
about fight on the ring yeah oh know we'll get to the fights on the field you
00:11:59
on the receiving end of most of them did did you end up getting in a fight in the
00:12:02
ring No I um because of the medication I'm on like blood thinness you can't you
00:12:07
can't play any context for is because cuz obviously you know the D too dangerous too dangerous so it's a lot of
00:12:14
work that goes into that d i was uh spent a long time preparing for that cuz I wanted to do it well and I had a great
00:12:20
coach Monty beam um and he's a Taskmaster he put He put you put you to your work but um I think I remember
00:12:28
doing around 90 rounds in the last in the last week preparing for it and I was every time I was driving from and and to
00:12:36
training I was just like what the hell why the hell am I doing this I thought rugby was hard doing a sport like boxing
00:12:42
with just you um man that's a real test so I have a lot of respect for those
00:12:47
people yeah so I see you didn't make it into the ring make it into the ring no
00:12:51
cuz you were you were talking about um giving it a real red hot crack for a while maybe fighting Paul gallon the
00:12:57
Australian guy and yeah I don't know what El I was thinking I was probably um but you know when we talk
00:13:04
about what do people's mindsets look like I'm probably one of those people
00:13:08
that uh if I got something to work towards then I'm going to um put all my time and energy into that so I was
00:13:14
definitely committed to that yeah you were hey um okay let's go way back um so
00:13:19
you you're um s but you're born in tooda um so your grandparents move over and
00:13:24
they settle and JZ they must have been the when did they move there they must have been the only s there
00:13:29
in the 50s as well in the 50s so like you know there was these beautiful big cities ockland and Christ Church and
00:13:36
Wellington but they um settled and took it all all places did they have like a job there in the mill or yeah and that's
00:13:42
I think that was primary reason so my grandfather worked there um and yes we were one of the first Polynesians uh in
00:13:49
took all so you know we come from a an awesome Legacy of um of grandparents that built um communities down there and
00:13:58
so yep Grandad worked at the m so to my uncles so to my dad um so you know when I think about some of those things that
00:14:06
you you learn as you grow up all those environments you're in Just Around good
00:14:11
hardworking people work hard for their families want to do the same thing too and did you growing I don't know if
00:14:16
you're the same age maybe you're a little bit older but did you know um Richard kahoy or quaade Cooper or the
00:14:22
edes boys I'll shamely say I'm a little bit older than those guys I do know I
00:14:28
did know them in um in toor but uh yeah I was I was a little bit older so um I always say that toor
00:14:36
is the biggest town in the world because everyone knows someone there someone stayed there or there's you know when
00:14:42
you look at the amount of athletes that are come out or sorry Talent that's come
00:14:45
out of that place has been pretty special yeah and um what was your upbringing like was it was it like a
00:14:50
strict Samoan upbringing or um good question actually you know my dad um is is from sore so probably a little bit
00:14:58
more traditional um and my mom was born in New Zealand so um we just had we had the best of both
00:15:06
worlds and so who was the disciplinarian and who was the who was the the one that
00:15:10
you went to for cattles I'd like to actually I actually think my mom was the
00:15:15
disciplinary you know it was Dad just take took a look you know most people know know what your Dads look like when
00:15:22
you when you stepped the line and then um but it was Mom that was having to do the disciplinary cuz Dad was always he
00:15:28
was he was always to work for us so but good upbringing I think it's one of the
00:15:33
center pieces one of these pieces that uh really helped me and my life help my siblings as well just uh just having
00:15:40
great parents you know we've had that we' had good relationships all through
00:15:44
our life with them as well and unfortunately we're missing our mom uh we we lost her around this time last
00:15:50
year yeah July last year yeah and so life's been really different without her
00:15:56
cuz she was the matriarch of our family she's the she was the glue so um we spent a lot of time actually with our
00:16:03
Dad we're out on the golf course yesterday for his birthday how's he now
00:16:07
he's 74 is he still working he he just finished like so just before we lost mom
00:16:12
um he was made redundant and I could never see my dad redundant as well because he was one of those guys up at
00:16:18
4:30 off to work you know just routine that routine of his life but now that he's finished him he's
00:16:26
um when I talked to him I said to him dad remember but that was you he goes yeah I can't I don't know why I did it
00:16:31
for so long you know so because I heard a podcast you did um I was listening to this the other day and uh was your dad
00:16:39
he must have been like 7071 at the time and he was still working and um he said to you like as a a a a pride sort of
00:16:46
thing like son I'm I'm still paying the tax man I'm still paying the tax man
00:16:49
like a badge of honor that's it and real pride in the fact he was working oh and
00:16:54
I love that about them those are these are some of the these are some of the it's a thought process but also the
00:17:01
mindset that um hopefully we can we as his children his grandchildren will take into their lives as well is that um
00:17:09
being proud about what you do and what you achieve um yeah I hope hope we all have that same mindset as him as well
00:17:16
yeah and and your mom she was um like a loved and respected kindy teacher yes she was an early Child Care Center yeah
00:17:22
from when we were young as well and part of our um part of our our golf day yesterday is you know we we eventually
00:17:30
want to make this golf day into something that we can do some fundraising for Early Child Care Centers
00:17:35
cuz um you know one of our family businesses is is we're still in that as well we our family do Early Child Care
00:17:44
Center but one of the most beautiful things I'd seen D in my time was actually um when
00:17:50
our mom passed I had so many people come up to me look a lot of people come up to
00:17:55
us and say I know Luke your older brother or I know Kev but it was the amount of people that I would meet and
00:18:01
say your mom taught me and these are adults and she teaches my kids as well so she's left left behind a a huge
00:18:10
Legacy and as a yeah as a as her son and and as as a as a person that she's left behind we're
00:18:19
trying to live that trying to carry on that Legacy for her yeah what was um was it
00:18:25
diabetes um mom had a few complications actually and I think um diabetes might may have been one of it
00:18:33
so yeah it's quite hard adjusting uh when you know you're just so used to
00:18:39
having that love and support around you and just I always say she was one of those people that never she's never
00:18:46
judging people you could go to her with any problem and just someone that listened and
00:18:53
never was listening to answer your question just listening so she was amazing and my
00:18:59
life yeah must heaps oh I can tell yeah yeah I saw a post you put on um um Instagram um with a photo of your mom it
00:19:08
must have been maybe on the one year anniversary and you used um the line of The Edge heing song that I wish that
00:19:13
heaven had visiting our yes yeah yeah I mate I'm so sorry for your loss I can't
00:19:17
imagine the the hole that left yeah thank you D yeah um yeah no I really appreciate it yeah how's your dead is he
00:19:26
right I think he's doing as well as can be you know he um that's his best that
00:19:30
was his best friend and uh I still remember him saying to me these are the now that I'm finished work now that I'm
00:19:37
retired these are the days I was supposed to be spending with your mom so I think what you know what that installs
00:19:43
into US is that making the most of every day you know we're not promised here
00:19:48
so why wait why wait until you retired to have these good days just try and have more of them more days that you can
00:19:56
remember good days I love that ke that's such a attitude can you remember can you
00:20:00
remember your last conversation with her or were you were you there when she passed I was the funny story um actually
00:20:08
is that she first uh went into hospital she had a fall um at at dayare at at the
00:20:15
at the center and um she had to go into uh middlemore and this was the time of the lockdown so OK was lock down you
00:20:24
couldn't move around um but I managed to get into the hospital yeah did did you say do you know do you
00:20:33
put the old black head on did you say do you know who I am I'm not want to Splash
00:20:38
my name out but that was the that was going to be the only time that I was going to use it to get in to see Mom so
00:20:44
um and it worked and uh when I eventually found out what are you doing here I eventually got kicked out but um
00:20:51
I managed to be in there um and be there for mom on behalf of our family and um yeah and so yeah that that was hard and
00:21:02
but but having those conversations you know these conversations you have with your parents when it's just you and Mom
00:21:08
or Dad um there probably things that you don't need to share but everyone knows
00:21:12
that you have those conversations that just they will stay for you stay with you for life and um those are yeah those
00:21:19
are some special moments yeah it's been like um just a year and a bit now how long was it before you could
00:21:26
talk about it without getting emotional oh I can still feel myself golfing at the
00:21:31
moment um yeah I think that's that says a lot about um yeah like showing emotion about
00:21:38
that I think it says a lot about the relationship you had and just you know how much you miss her and how much she
00:21:42
means to you I think that's it's it's a cool thing right yes most definitely and
00:21:48
I've especially for our kids and all our and all our grandchildren um because we lost our
00:21:55
grandparents early yeah we lost them actually I lost my my grandparents like in their 60s and when I was young you
00:22:01
know you used to think that was old yeah right yeah yeah and as you get old you go
00:22:07
man we' missed out on a lot so yeah I think yeah it's it's always it always um
00:22:14
I can still feel my heart cracking a little bit when we talk about it but um I know there there are many other people
00:22:20
that have that have been through the same thing as well yeah yeah well thanks for sharing that um while while we're on
00:22:27
your mom um I I read in an interview somewhere she she described you as a little boy as being
00:22:32
mischievous were you and it's hard to like it's it's hard to imagine anything
00:22:38
about Kevin Mami being mischievous what did she mean we we we were you like were you a
00:22:45
naughty kid or was it just like standard standard little boy stuff well definitions of naughty right
00:22:52
so yeah so I always think you know if we're playing Cricket in the backyard hit the tennis ball and it's in the
00:22:57
gutter we we would be the on to climb the roof you know go up the side of the go up the side fence onto the roof
00:23:04
jumping off the side of the house you know those sort of things smashing windows then trying to go to sleep early
00:23:09
before Dad finished work so he want to get in trouble or did you used to get the wait
00:23:14
until your father gets home oh bro I used to get that too and then by the time Dad get home from work I'd
00:23:21
forgotten what I wasn't even in trouble for I used to hate that you know and it
00:23:25
was always the same too was always me and my brother you know cuz we were so always outside broke a lot of things at
00:23:32
home you [Laughter] know M like I can see parallels like me and my little brother and we' we'd play
00:23:39
sport and it always end up in fights and something about um like the glass windows in the 70s and ' 80s it was
00:23:46
really thin they were really you had a tennis ball against a window and it would break and you know you still
00:23:52
remember it was always slow motion you just see it going towards the window you're like no no no and then you just
00:23:58
stores on you dad's going to be home in 2 hours time oh my goodness so um yeah I
00:24:05
suppose she was right you were well I mean sneaking into middlemore to see her that was mischievous that was one I had
00:24:10
to do I had to do that I had to that's one of those moments where you're just
00:24:14
like family I'm going to do this I don't like doing I don't like yeah yeah we made it we made it
00:24:20
happen so um oh that's cool I bet you don't regret that at all that's really
00:24:24
cool yeah so yes yes so you you were there when she passed and and then she passed we were all there we were all in
00:24:32
uh we were lucky enough to have family in oh that's nice so um yeah she she came home for the last couple of days
00:24:40
and uh yeah just uh I don't know she she wasn't she wasn't uh awake but um there
00:24:47
was just as she walked in the door uh she opened her eyes and was happy to be home that's where she wanted to be in
00:24:55
her own house so so she had all her family all our family and friends around had us all around so it's probably
00:25:03
special moment for us yeah oh that's cool so you guys moved from um too to Oakland how old were you then um I think
00:25:11
I was uh 14 right what was that like it's a big adjustment hey I didn't want
00:25:16
to move to be honest you know cuz that's where all my friends were we were comfortable um but I always think you
00:25:22
know Forward Thinking parents we have you know Polynesian as well and they were asking us they they set us down and
00:25:29
said no what do you think about moving to Oakland and we were just thinking about friends and and things that were
00:25:36
comfortable they were thinking about our future so um yeah as as as tough as it was moving early we quickly found
00:25:46
friends found like this yeah this was home for us as well yeah and were you were you playing were you good at rugby
00:25:53
then yeah I played a little bit of rugby when I I was yeah I was I did a bit of representing for wakat and um South
00:26:00
wakat when I was growing up so it was always I was always I always had this aspiration to to want to play for the O
00:26:08
Dom I know a lot of people talk about wanting to do that um but I'm one of the
00:26:14
I'm one of the real lucky blessed people that have been able to follow it through well not just follow it through
00:26:20
you were greedy you you have you hogged that Jersey for a long time and absolute privilege you know I
00:26:28
wanted to make sure I could do that well so and you did so why um so so after school you were um you got an
00:26:34
apprenticeship as a sign writer y so were you you weren like straight out of school into into like professional rugby
00:26:40
or a super team or I remember actually when I finished school cuz I I played I was a loose forward I was a number seven
00:26:46
I was an open side flanker um growing up and as I was getting I missed out a couple year in my last year um on a
00:26:55
couple of teams and they just said you're not going to make it any fur further in this position and maybe I
00:27:01
heard this wrong I did go to one trial I thought in my head that he said you won
00:27:05
make it any further you won't make it any further he probably said you won't
00:27:09
make it any further as a number seven but I took of it the other way you're not going to make it any further so you
00:27:16
know when we talk about drivers that's probably one of them that was one of the
00:27:18
drivers that actually well I'm going to show you something different of fuel to motivate
00:27:23
you oh big time yeah yeah yeah and then so then and and then you made it into the Chiefs that was your first yeah your
00:27:29
first super team no I played two years at the blues actually right and it was my third year but um I think I was just
00:27:35
I was just being dragged Along on on my teammates coils you know I was happy to be there cuz I was playing alongside
00:27:42
some of the guys I'd watched from high school so when you're in that environment and when you seeing these
00:27:48
guys that you've looked up to um you're in awe quite a bit it's quite easy to
00:27:52
like who who drop some of these names oh like Ronnie Clark was still playing we had I was playing along Craig D just
00:27:59
imagine having him as your prop when so the Leo laf uh Charles rman so they were man I feel bad cuz I know I'm
00:28:10
leaving some out but um Craig gness there was Junior T there were guys that actually they were part of this Blues
00:28:18
era where they were Unstoppable and now that I was playing alongside them um yeah I unashamedly say that um I was
00:28:26
turning up to training like I can't believe this you know oh feeling like an imposter imposter yeah yeah big
00:28:34
time wow that's so cool okay okay we're on the rugby stuff so let's talk about
00:28:37
that so first of all like what is a what is the job of a hooker thank you can you do that
00:28:48
question again oh yeah what what is the role of a hooker it's a good question
00:28:54
there's core rules every every hooker should know how to throw the ball in for the line out yeah it's a big
00:29:02
responsibility it is a big responsibility um no we had a hook hook a ball in a scrum so I know how to
00:29:08
scrummage as well but then there's all these other parts to which is uh that's
00:29:12
just part of being a rugby player run tackle pass get over the ball contest the ball
00:29:19
um it's really it's really quite simple but actually hard to execute so I can
00:29:25
tell you for sure that I was one of those guys that um really struggled in here with throwing the ball in I knew
00:29:33
skill skill-wise I could throw the ball but there were moments in games actually
00:29:37
they really tested um I'd say this and this you know so every time I see hookers that that have probably had two
00:29:46
or three bad throws in a row I understand what they're going through I know what they're thinking about I've
00:29:52
been to the dairy and had uh my Dairy owner say to me K you just have to throw the ball in
00:29:59
and I'm saying yeah I just want to get some Muk but D it's a it's the it's it's a
00:30:06
little things like that that people don't really think about a player would carry that on their shoulder you'd carry
00:30:11
that on your shoulder just it's a little chirp but it's still on your shoulder
00:30:16
when you're when you're going about your job you just have to throw the ball in
00:30:18
straight you got one you know it's a throwaway line doesn't mean you anything
00:30:22
to anyone but um just imagine if it's two people and then three people will said that we've seen something in the
00:30:28
paper then it just looks a little bit bigger on your shoulder so it's just uh
00:30:32
I have a lot of time and empathy for guys that are throwing the ball on cuz it's often their fault isn't
00:30:39
it but on on on reflection I don't know if I'll get much of an answer out of you
00:30:43
for this one because you you know you are just so modest but um modesty aside like on on reflection what was it that
00:30:49
made you so good for so long um so like like a combination of natural talent and hard work
00:30:59
or what was it cuz you were you were there how many 133 tests 132 132 test yeah it's crazy you're there for like 12
00:31:09
years 13 years um it's question four Rugby World Cup campaigns you you didn't win the
00:31:14
first two but you did win the second to like it's a a crazy long career I think
00:31:19
there's a there's a there's a couple of things to that maybe if I just look from
00:31:23
outside from where what what I was lucky enough to do my my support the people that were around me family
00:31:30
especially my family um that was just like this the whole time so whatever I was going through in rugby um
00:31:40
they no judgment come home had a bad game it's all good better next week so that's that's a that's a strong piece of
00:31:48
who I am so I understand that that's that support piece was really big but want to maybe for me I think where it
00:31:55
really changed for me is I always talk to our young people about purpose so when I went down to play for the
00:32:02
Chiefs um I was in the middle of building a house so unfinished I had a house that was unfinished and our my
00:32:10
wife was carrying our son Samuel so and you know as I'm out mowing the lawn she
00:32:16
comes to me with the phone and it's coach and I'm expecting him to say get
00:32:19
ready for preseason uh but he tells me I haven't uh I'm not being selected this
00:32:24
year these are the things you need to work on and uh my heart drops because I know I haven't got a job anymore and
00:32:30
I've got all these things that I need to I've got my family I need to look
00:32:34
look after I got a house that's unfinished um so when the opportunity for the
00:32:41
Chiefs comes within the day um I woke my butt off I realized that I've just been cruising
00:32:48
here and by the end of the year I become an or they just put a lot of hard work and dedication to it
00:32:55
so when I get a chance to reflect back and look what what was the difference here what was I was on the verge of
00:33:01
losing everything I wasn't going to be able to do my job as a dad as and as a
00:33:07
husband so purpose comes down to purpose what's your purpose what's your drive family
00:33:13
for me the other part to it as well D I think is uh people talk about it it's hard
00:33:21
getting there but it's hard to stay in there but my time as an all black we always talked about what Legacy you
00:33:28
going to leave behind what do you what what do you want them talking about this team that's here
00:33:34
today uh I think that's that's what drives you to be better want to be Pioneers want to be able to do things
00:33:40
haven't been done before we hadn't won a World Cup in about 20 odd years and no team had gone
00:33:48
back back to back before we did so wanting to be Pioneers I think something that really drove me to am I doing the
00:33:56
right thing every day am I at the right level does that display the um the values of someone that or a team that
00:34:03
want to to do that so purpose and what is what what are you going to leave behind what's your legacy yeah God M
00:34:11
have got goosebumps oh good there there's some good takeaways on that one yeah so um yes so your your debut you to
00:34:19
yeah from the Chiefs so your debut was November 23rd 2002 um were you sort of expecting to be
00:34:26
named like you had a really good super season and you like your name was being thrown around or was it a surprise how
00:34:31
did you find out this is sh my age a little bit D cuz you know we had just finished winning um
00:34:37
the NPC with Oakland yeah and we're in W hickey uh celebrating with all our families uh but I I heard my name over
00:34:45
transistor radio I know what that is May a lot of people listening to this or watching
00:34:50
this maybe under the age of 30 that we have no idea oh that's cool this is pre
00:34:56
smartphones this is pre yeah it was like an actual transistor yeah it was and so quite a special moment uh
00:35:04
actually and I didn't I didn't think I'd hear my name like I I'd had a good um
00:35:09
super season um and also NPC but but I missed out you know I'd had to go down to the Chiefs to play so I
00:35:16
didn't actually in my in my mind think that I would be an all black by the end
00:35:21
of the year cool story about that though um D's um you know when you talk about when
00:35:29
you're lucky enough to play in some of these teams you're catching catching the
00:35:33
end of some awesome eras and then you're just seeing the the beginnings of some
00:35:38
some awesome careers I was you know I was on J J lomu's last um toz and O Christian Cullen as
00:35:49
well and when I think about these players you might not know that some of our our viewers might not know them but
00:35:55
if if you're from our era and if they had YouTube back now man if they had access to what we've seen you'd
00:36:04
understand you'd understand the magnitude of of that yeah oh everyone everyone knows about those guys oh my
00:36:12
God that's amazing so um yeah yeah and and Richie only made the team like a year before you so he was he was a young
00:36:19
fellow as well yeah wow join so um how intimidating was that what what were you like I'd imagine that a young k
00:36:27
me would be quite a shy shy guy did you speak to anybody like what was your first couple of weeks in all black camp
00:36:33
like oh actually it was pretty good good actually I had a you know had some good
00:36:37
mates on that I had um Bradley M uh first tour as well and uh even Daniel bra was over there with me as well so we
00:36:45
had an awesome team uh just good bunch of guys over there really enjoyed the having them with you cuz it's quite
00:36:55
a new space to be a part of um but no I I really enjoyed it I was like a kid in a candy store M you know if you've
00:37:03
you've seen an all black um where they Kut You Out imagine that for you especially your
00:37:09
first one holy heck you stand like it's all free what is this who was you yeah
00:37:15
who was that John Mitchell the coach was John Mitchell right so heans yeah yeah and um good coaches like people always
00:37:21
ask me who's who's the best coach you had I I it's hard to say because there's
00:37:27
so many they're all good you just take these bits and pieces you take out of everyone
00:37:31
yeah I was thinking about that the other day because I've got um I've got Cali
00:37:34
coming over next week for a podcast and um Legend and I I I was thinking about you you being here today and Kelly
00:37:41
coming in next week and it's like um John Mitchell is obviously a special coach to you because he selected you and
00:37:47
you became an all black under him um he was the guy that was the coach that sort
00:37:50
of ended K's International career so his relationship with is you're probably
00:37:54
quite different and I suppose that's just the path of a coach isn't you're going to you're going to make
00:37:59
make dreams for people but you're going to you know break some people's hearts
00:38:02
oh you know I've had those tough conversations with coaches as well every player wants to be the person that's out
00:38:08
there from the beginning of the game as a hooker you want to be the one that runs out of the number two um but as I
00:38:14
was through my career we're transitioning through a 15-man game into a 22 23 Man game where the bench
00:38:21
actually they weren't just on they weren't there just to be on the bench if
00:38:25
someone couldn't finish a game they actually part of the part of the game plan how do you finish a game well how
00:38:30
do you bring on this energy that you know um is part of winning game so I've
00:38:37
had those conversations asking coaches what can I do to be the starter out there and them coming back to me with
00:38:43
what you can do Off the Bench that's what our team needs it just goes in one
00:38:47
a and straight out the other cuz no no no that's not what I'm that's not what I
00:38:51
here wrong answer wrong who was that was that uh Steve Hansen or was that was that Steve it was Steve so yeah sorry
00:38:58
Steve wrong answer but but those are the conversations and you know there's obviously lessons that that you go
00:39:06
through in your career that you go oh okay I understand um yeah I've had a couple of those games where
00:39:13
actually firstly man if you're sitting on the bench with the or who gets to do
00:39:19
that secondly you got an opportunity to do something so when you get on there you better be ready so actually just
00:39:26
looking you know we're talking about earlier when you've got a bit of lens on
00:39:29
things well I've still got a chance to contribute uh to the team and it's still
00:39:34
at a meaningful time back into the game as where games are won and man what a privilege it is to be an O not everyone
00:39:42
gets to do that right most of us oh most of not everyone most of us don't yeah oh did you did you
00:39:49
not like um yeah did it sort of like hurt your pride or something when you an impact player cuz you just wanted to do
00:39:55
the whole 80 minutes oh yeah well just you know when you've been a a starter
00:39:59
for a long time um does it feel like a downgrade or something well it did back then yeah you just usually the best
00:40:07
people start right and so before it was a 23 a 22 23 Man game it sort of it was wasn't really about playing to what your
00:40:18
strength size as a team it was just usually the the best 15 start yeah so um yes you as I mentioned before
00:40:27
you're involved in four World Cups so 2003 2007 both losses and then 2011 2015
00:40:34
both wins so you you got the bad ones out of the way um 2007 is a particularly memorable one
00:40:43
mainly for that photo of um Ted Graham Henry and Richie and Richie's um everyone thought he was crying but I
00:40:49
think he was just wiping sweat off his brow or something but you know the the photo captured that moment what was um
00:40:55
what was that like that day that moment where where you know you kicked out of the um kicked out of the Rugby
00:41:02
World Cup is it still quite Vivid to you probably so cuz it's probably our early it was our earliest exit out of
00:41:09
the World Cup as well I'd say every World Cup that all black team goes to uh you're probably
00:41:15
ped to be the favorites or close to that so what comes with that is a lot of expectation and then thinking back to
00:41:23
that moment we were out of the World Cup and the the team's you got to go home
00:41:27
the next day if you if you're out of the World Cup next day you're on the next
00:41:31
plane out uh face the music face the music so um oh we put a lot of work in done things really different you know um
00:41:43
we we took the beginning of the Super Rugby off to recondition to condition ourselves but we were missing probably
00:41:50
one of the main ingredients which is play rugby so we were these good athletes better athletes than what we'd ever been
00:41:56
but good R good rugby players play rug rugby week in week out you understand the
00:42:02
different nuances of rugby which is game plans technical tactical these things you can't do when you're not playing
00:42:12
rugby so yeah it was a disappointing moment for us cuz we know we'd let ourselves down but then when you have to
00:42:18
come back home to 3 million people and say yeah what was a week early two weeks early what was that homecoming like you
00:42:26
avoid going to the dairy by milk well I think going this is yeah this is probably one of those moments
00:42:33
where you're just like man is going to the airport going onto your flight and
00:42:39
there's like kiwi coming past you going where the hell are you guys going you
00:42:43
know they're coming over to watch semis and finals so oh yeah yeah that's that's
00:42:48
a hard moment but I feel like you've um you know you've got quite a good um
00:42:53
perspective on things like you know you've got your you've got your cornerstones of your life like your
00:42:57
family is important your religion is important so I feel like you're I don't
00:43:00
know what I'm basing this on um but I feel like you're able to sort of see
00:43:04
rugby for what it is it's just a game it's not a matter of life and death
00:43:07
would that be faar or did it feel at the time like it is a matter matter of life
00:43:11
and death yeah in the moment yeah I think when you're going through certain parts of your career you think it's the
00:43:17
be or and Endor I do remember sitting at um Sunday lunch and this is something we
00:43:22
always do you know the whole family or our siblings and grandchildren and parents will be there but I remember
00:43:28
saying to dead you know just ask how my week was and my head was down didn't
00:43:32
play well game didn't turn out we got thumped on the weekend and I ask you know how
00:43:38
was your day and he goes yeah no normal week up at 4:00 getting ready for work you know and just yeah just all da like
00:43:46
yeah stop stop being a [ __ ] and for me to stop being a [ __ ] and actually pull your head in say yeah perspective
00:43:53
he perspective um I you got a you got a gift he for your under test like your teammates chipped in and they got you
00:44:01
like a customade uh ring looks like something the Mad Butcher would wear yes um where where's that I notic you're not
00:44:08
wearing it is is it just too is it too showy for you to wear I think it's it's
00:44:13
really cool actually um and I actually haven't had the chance to wear it out
00:44:18
but this is this was my teammates really thinking of me because they knew I Lov the NFL and um when you w an NFL like a
00:44:26
Super Bowl Super Bowl think get Super Bowl ring so as flashy as it looks it's
00:44:31
got some really nice pieces around it it's got a cross on it it's got um old
00:44:34
black number it's got my kids um initials on it it's quite flashy looking
00:44:39
but um they put a lot of time to put some really cool meaning into it um yeah just a bit flash to walk around with
00:44:49
3D yeah do um yeah do you have much in the way memorabilia like you've got World Cup medals obviously two two gold
00:44:57
World Cup medals um where are they like do you have like a cabinet are they on display or anything or they in a drawer
00:45:04
this is the funny thing D because you know um things rust you know they lose their shine and that it's the memories
00:45:11
that really stay with you I've got a lot of memorabilia but the wife has kicked
00:45:15
it out of the house you know it's like this doesn't look good you know all your
00:45:18
jerseys don't look good in the house so it's in the garage it's in the in boxes
00:45:23
boxes but um yeah I think that's the mem mories you carry with them M um yeah
00:45:30
they they are objects and you know obviously they always used for cool things like fundraisers and that but for
00:45:36
me um yeah it's all the memories that I take away from them oh yeah St the yeah
00:45:41
that's yeah that is true the me memories are yeah I sold a house recently that it
00:45:45
was a house that I lived in for 20 years and I went through a lot there like um and I was quite quite emotional um when
00:45:50
it came to selling it but then I you know reminded myself that you know the memories actually stay with you they're
00:45:55
not actually part of part of the house just a property yes um yeah how many of your jerseys have you got left I feel
00:46:00
like people would ask you for a jersey for a charity auction and you just give it up there's a lot of jues in
00:46:06
132 that's a lot of options uh no I've got a I've got I've still got a few at
00:46:11
home actually and um I got a lot of jues from opponents have played against so um
00:46:18
you know it's it's just cool bringing them out every now and then having a
00:46:20
look and um but yeah I it's a privilege to be able to share them with people
00:46:26
which is is you know fundraisers or trying to do some stuff in our community so yeah is is there is there like one
00:46:34
particular one that you'd never part with like for your first test or your 100th or a World Cup final um I still
00:46:41
got my H 100th and been lucky enough to share that with you know um give that to
00:46:45
family so actually yeah I I don't have any Jersy in specific because yeah I always think
00:46:54
there was there was the people that helped give me the thank you oh my God you are the nicest
00:47:02
gu ever you know what I mean though like I think most people they see an end product and think that's just that's it
00:47:09
is what it is but um you know when we talk about perspective and who helps helps get you there man my um my Village
00:47:17
or My Tribe or my I say island is huge family and friends so um and that's the
00:47:24
way I felt throughout my whole life and just the the support I've been lucky
00:47:29
enough to have behind me yeah we we roll deep yeah are you yeah you quite connected to your some own roots and
00:47:36
culture I am yeah yeah and um actually awesome you bring that up D is probably one of the
00:47:44
things if I'm being totally vulnerable with everyone is uh one of the things I
00:47:50
know really L myself down on is not being able to speak my language speak some full someon fluent
00:47:58
and um yeah it's something I wish I had done earlier and I can blame you know
00:48:03
growing up in toor it wasn't many people to talk to um but it's something when I
00:48:09
when as I go through life I'm still open to learning um but I'm GED I didn't
00:48:14
learn my language and beginning of the year I had the chance to take the um member the the
00:48:22
the of the speaker for um the parliament of s take him through all black experience just him and his team awesome
00:48:32
it it was totally awesome but I couldn't sleep that night because I was thinking
00:48:35
to myself how am I going to um how do I greet properly respectfully and do this properly so
00:48:44
even when I was driving all the way in I was just like man I'm I feel like I'm
00:48:47
letting down my family you know cuz as I walk in there you carry your family name
00:48:52
as well so I just and it wasn't until I get to like Spaghetti Junction no almost
00:48:58
there I was just like well you're just going to have to accept me for who I am
00:49:02
I'm a proud someon I'm GED I can't speak someon fluently um but I'm proud of my
00:49:10
roots so yeah that's that's I walked and I had an awesome time yeah they were
00:49:15
they were amazing so oh you can't beat yourself up too much about that I was
00:49:19
though I was yeah sweating couldn't sleep oh there was um uh um something that I I didn't know existed but I uh I
00:49:30
saw an interview with Richard Kaho and he talked about something called a little black book and you presented him
00:49:34
a little a little black book yes what's what's the little black book I've never
00:49:38
ever heard about this before in terms of the um like the old black Legacy um I'd
00:49:43
say you know just broadly it's probably like a manual but uh just with a bit
00:49:48
more purpose and meaning behind it you know it's uh I think it just gives the
00:49:52
opportunity for players to know what's come before them what what it means to
00:49:58
be playing for the O and then there's you I suppose there's a bid in there as well what what are you
00:50:05
going to how you going to add to this Legacy as well so it's quite special when you know there's some things that
00:50:10
um they should stay unspoken about because it's just the special things that everything gets
00:50:19
shared these days but it's probably one thing that a an all black has that's
00:50:23
just just for them so is that why I've never heard about it you never hear anyone sort of speak
00:50:28
about it but but it's s like um so there's some text in there and then is
00:50:31
it like a journal and you write yep there's a there's definitely parts to
00:50:34
with the journal at the back but it just shows where where we've come from where
00:50:40
we are today where we going or what were you leaving this jersey jeez you must have gone through a
00:50:46
few of them 133 test you need to add some more pages and or something yeah and you know um a lot of it's up here
00:50:55
but there special moments you know when I'm our Journal heaps so like got heaps
00:51:00
of like journals at home or sketchbooks as well that's another passion on mine
00:51:05
but just when you go over things that you've been able to write down it's
00:51:09
always awesome when you go back and oh this is where I was at this time in my life this is where my thoughts were yeah
00:51:15
they're pretty pretty cool to go over those sort of things you know yeah I heard that about you with um journaling
00:51:20
like you've been doing this since you were like a kid since what age um when
00:51:25
did you start journaling I I suppose it's not journaling when you're young but you know taught to I
00:51:31
was been part of rugby for a long time so writing out your goals mhm how you going to do them how long is it going to
00:51:37
take I think these things are really important cuz um thoughts come and go once it's on paper it's with you you can
00:51:44
put it up you can share it you can you've got a reference point so always in I always encourage people to do that
00:51:52
yeah cuz once you know people say no it's all up here comes goes yeah so you
00:51:59
you do you like Journal Daily Now not daily but there just moments where I just you know thinking about things
00:52:05
things that inspire me um things that I know I want to keep this cuz it's a gym
00:52:11
um oh yeah just if I'm trying to find that inspiration in my life sometimes it's nice to write it down where do want
00:52:17
where do I want to go who do I want to be how do I do it yeah and and you mentioned um the drawing as well like
00:52:24
yeah your art is really good you I me mentioned before like you you were training to be a sign writer um you've
00:52:30
Illustrated Kids books and stuff and um uh yeah drawing is it something you find quite quite cathartic it's
00:52:36
something you did to like cam the nerves when you on tour and stuff yes well do and my family you other sports person or
00:52:43
your um artistic sports or or Arts um and I think I sort of fell into both a little bit so I love that doesn't mean
00:52:52
I'm good at it oh I just you're being you're being very it's good work but um yeah in my family
00:53:00
I just I can see those two threads really clear there's a we got a huge artistic
00:53:06
Musical part to our family but also the love for sport and community in there so
00:53:12
yeah that's that's been a big part of who I am yeah are you quite musical as
00:53:17
well I saw some I've got one some old black book and there's a photo of you in
00:53:21
the back seat with um Richie mcco and a couple of others it looks like you're
00:53:25
holding a guitar yeah I um I wish I was better but I did learn to play the guitar on tour n Tata was my music
00:53:33
teacher and you know cuz front row is always most of the time they uh are rooming together and he was awesome just
00:53:40
like you know people that um can listen to a song and just learn to play it that
00:53:45
was him unreal unreal so yeah if I wanted to play a song play it to him you pick up all the
00:53:52
chords okay this is it and so yeah was probably one of the cool Parts it's also
00:53:59
I think about rugby as well it's music it's a big part of before and after
00:54:03
rugby you know when you're preparing for rugby it's that part that gets you in
00:54:07
the right mindset but then after it's that part where you're Bor so you can
00:54:12
imagine what a um playlist looks like for all black group cuz City Slickers Farmers there's everything in between as
00:54:21
well so yeah yeah what what were you what are you into what was your like sort of hype music what sort of genre oh
00:54:28
I was I was definitely you know getting ready for games was hip-hop and then as I got older it turned into
00:54:37
R&B turning up you know I felt myself being over overhyped going into games which I think served me well as a
00:54:45
youngster but then as I got older it's just like I just need to be a lot more
00:54:49
clearer and I just need to be more level going into games so my music mowed out heaps as I got older
00:54:57
yeah you're your very first all black game so um yeah what's that experience
00:55:02
like like are you are you nervous is it is it just excitement um and if you are nervous are you nervous about um being
00:55:09
hurt are you just nervous about not playing to your potential and not getting another chance like you what's
00:55:13
that experience like I I'd imagine God I'm just trying to place myself in that
00:55:17
position I think I'd feel sick sick with worry sick with the street it was a good training week we
00:55:25
prepared really well and I'd been away on tour for three games England first
00:55:29
France but I never got on and then I started against Wales and if you've ever
00:55:34
been to cff um and seen I don't know if it's called Millennium Stadium anymore
00:55:39
but that Stadium holds 880,000 people it feels like they sit on top of you so as you're coming down the tunnel
00:55:47
um a little bit different to some of our venues at quite long they just they go straight up so everyone's looking over
00:55:55
they're on top of the ground so it's a huge moment walking out uh with an all
00:56:01
black Jersey and I I totally understand when people say you feel like you've got
00:56:06
armor on you've got bulletproof vest on because as a if I'm lucky to say 5'10 I felt like I
00:56:13
was 6'3 when I was walking out just that Pride that you have on your chest the
00:56:18
opportunity you have going through um The Anthem and then doing the hucker it's just it's all the things that
00:56:26
you've seen in life everything that I wanted to be able to achieve and do and
00:56:31
then whistle goes and you're straight into it and then you don't really think
00:56:34
about these moments you're just doing you're just in the in rugby doing rugby
00:56:40
if that makes sense so the leadup is it's quite emotional once you're in
00:56:44
rugby you're just doing what you do what you love to do just muscle memory muscle
00:56:48
memory but just at a at a much more intense level i' imagine do you do you feel the the the the you the the level
00:56:56
of intensity rise immediately cuz I suppose before then the biggest level you would have played at would be like
00:57:01
Super Rugby that's it and you know I looked across I was playing against a um
00:57:07
a Wy old vet Robin McBride he he looks like a Wy vet and um when he when I played against him he was that person he
00:57:15
was that all right this is this is your introduction to um internal big boys to the big boys so um yeah privilege to
00:57:23
play against them and um but but he set the standard it was was Bloody high so yep and and if if you make um like a a
00:57:33
bad mistake on the field if you do something that I suppose what Springs to mind is Steven Donald and that were you
00:57:39
there when he played that game and then he became like public and be number one for a while and was it a game in like
00:57:44
Japan or somewhere and lost to Australia and I think it was in Hong Kong right Hong Kong yeah yeah and he someone put a
00:57:51
bullet on his L box after he got back um so that's an extreme example but say say
00:57:56
say you're playing and you have have not a great game what do do you get what
00:58:00
happens after that like do you do you get a dressing down from the coaches or anyone or you you everyone leaves you
00:58:06
alone because they know that you haven't met your own personal expectations or is
00:58:10
the main fear about what people are going to say online or in the media what happens well D I can say I pretty much
00:58:15
seen it all you know cuz I started back in 2000 or 2002 as an all all the way through to 2015 so the approach approach
00:58:24
there's a lot of different approaches than there probably the one I think for me as a
00:58:29
player probably the one that hurts the most is when um they don't talk to you know like cuz you know usually
00:58:38
when someone gives you a spray spray and then everything's good again yeah ripping the Band-Aid off yeah and if
00:58:45
it's prais then you know you feel good but when they let's just say a coach
00:58:50
walks past you doesn't say anything that's just like that's like when you like your when your your dad
00:58:57
says I'm disappointed that's worse than getting a hiding right it's like so yeah oh I think I've
00:59:04
Seen It All To be honest so it just varies from coach to coach it varies well most definitely everyone's got a
00:59:11
different approach to things and that works you know I can understand being in a team some for some people different
00:59:18
approaches work you know it's not one siiz fo all okay let's um yeah can we just talk
00:59:26
talk about some of the some of the I suppose like negative stuff or stuff that happened but by the way like not
00:59:32
that you ever really did anything wrong I think a lot of these you were just the
00:59:35
victim in these things so there was um a guy from the lions that was sent home after biting your finger yes yeah yeah
00:59:42
did that what was that like having your finger bitten he was saying that you you
00:59:45
hooked your finger in his mouth or something so but he got sent home in in disgrace um was it is it a painful
00:59:51
injury or are you a tough bugger no just in the moment actually and um it's the first time we're playing
01:00:00
against the Lions as well so there's like a lot of emotion flying and you know being a part of those series
01:00:07
because they don't come around very often so if you're a part of it it's
01:00:11
quite a special time and I know we might view it as negative but it's it's just
01:00:16
how things pan out similar to Brian aiso which was in the first test match and accidentally gets tip tackled lands
01:00:25
on a should and then can't play the rest of the of the the series T roomer in
01:00:30
yourself yeah yeah yeah you're completely accidental but yeah nasty yeah things just happen like that um
01:00:37
There's No Malice or meaning in behind it it just things just happen so and the
01:00:42
same thing with biting of the finger just things just happen no nothing personal all that but
01:00:49
but it happened so that's a that's a weird one though as far as injuries go like being bitten on
01:00:54
the finger did you did you need any treatment or anything or you just play on or no it was just just uh B Max but
01:01:01
nothing no finger dangling you know any other weird injuries um that you like the Frenchman on for a while like for
01:01:10
grabbing testicles and things yeah I think it's probably one of the things I
01:01:15
remember for my first um tour was seeing Jonah running down the side line and um
01:01:21
one of the lucies was trying to tackle him but he was only Hanging On By the balls the balls
01:01:29
so I think I've seen the picture somewhere just like jeez you hope it was like the the
01:01:39
you the the deck rather than the balls Technic that's painful um okay what about um there was a clip I saw online I
01:01:46
think it was on YouTube of you being um looks like it was in South Africa and um
01:01:49
someone hits you on the head with a water bottle so you're on the field and I thought it was a kid initially but it
01:01:54
looks like an old guy some yeah what what happened there um it was weird it was weird I think we had
01:02:01
just scored in the corner it was the end of the game we were getting we played in
01:02:05
boria it's tough place to play like attitude's hard enough but um the their
01:02:09
supporters are really passionate up there as well so I think we we lost to the Bulls but
01:02:16
we scored a try at the end and uh as I was walking back with um Renee Ranger I think scored the try in the corner feel
01:02:24
like a bang in the back of the head looked back and someone thrown a water bottle at me and was I didn't realize at
01:02:31
the moment cuz you know when you get that Red Mist you don't really see much
01:02:35
but I did see a guy doing that and as I got closer was an old man yeah cuz you it's funny he cuz you
01:02:43
say the red Miss but um and you look really fired up and um indignant which you know it's totally fair enough but
01:02:50
how' you how' you reacted badly I mean [ __ ] would have been terrible right yeah
01:02:55
well how do like how how do you stand in control like you know you you're you're
01:03:00
the imposing guy on the field and you know you as I said at the start you're a
01:03:03
Savage on the field but then for something like that you have to switch it off immediately yeah but you can't
01:03:08
cross that line that's a I think just as I got closer I just real realized how
01:03:12
old he was but but then you know it doesn't matter of put the side put aside the age you're
01:03:21
still accountable for what you do right yeah so I was just hearing these different voices on my head do something
01:03:27
don't do it he's too old so one hand was like yeah do something other hand was like no no no but um yeah
01:03:37
it's funny how all these things happen I suppose when you I suppose when you play
01:03:40
a lot of games there's lot of these experiences yeah oh there was the other one who who was the Australian guy that
01:03:47
punched you on the face oh my good mate Brendon Cannon yeah like like punch you like right in the face you yeah what was
01:03:54
what was the story with that what happened in the lead up to that how did that happen it was a terrible day
01:03:59
terrible weather for a test match in Wellington and um I just think it was probably of the days where it was a lot
01:04:08
closer between us and Australia so the tension's probably a little bit higher
01:04:12
but also um yeah must have been a bit of banter going throughout the week so everything's just a little bit more
01:04:19
tense and um he sees me at a on the side of the rck he's got a a hand on me I
01:04:27
flick his hand off flicks it back and then going to you know I just thought it was it was we in the in that era where
01:04:34
you don't throw punches and he just cracked me right in the middle of the I've still got the Mark here actually to
01:04:40
to show it but he cracks me in the middle of the head and I'm just I stand there going people ask why didn't you
01:04:45
fall down I was cuz I was in shock I was like I can't believe you punched me so
01:04:51
we stand in ex exchange for a few we get we both get sent off at the same time and the Bloody bugger when we we have to
01:04:59
get stitched up both of us when we're in the same room and we just got one of
01:05:02
those like dividers between us goes hey K how's the family I was trying to find like a table
01:05:09
to throw over the and funny enough we're still good mates he he messaged me yesterday we
01:05:16
we're catching up down at the uh all black wab game down at Wellington so this is the beauty of rugby where you
01:05:23
know you things happen on the field off the field that's amazing yeah in that moment
01:05:32
how did you not um like why didn't you retaliate I feel the the instinctual thing to do would be to throw a punch
01:05:37
back oh yeah I did throw a couple back oh did you I did but yeah that and like you said it's probably Instinct you
01:05:46
don't sort of think about what if will I get sent off it's that instinctual part
01:05:52
of playing rugby or playing contact sport um but yeah that's probably one of the
01:05:59
moments where we both could have handled ourselves better especially H he started
01:06:04
it um yeah the odris thing that you mentioned before like um I mean you yeah as we've established you're like you're
01:06:11
one of the nicest guys imaginable and um you've got an impeccable record but
01:06:15
something like that where where your conduct uh gets called into questions was was that one of the like hardest
01:06:20
chapters of your career yeah I think so this is just um probably an action that like we said rugby happens like this um
01:06:30
you get ridiculed or that becomes people see you as that you're that type of person
01:06:38
and um you know as a as a sports person you can't take on too much of what people think it starts to get dangerous
01:06:44
when you're talking about performing on the field and what you're thinking about
01:06:47
and stuff but yeah it's going to Ireland and getting a few side looks and uh
01:06:55
getting a few nice words um it's not nice but um just got to deal with it so
01:07:01
yeah you're um all good with o Driscoll have you seen him in the in the years
01:07:05
past I was at one of the one of the um Hong Kong sevens that I went to when I finished playing um went there and I was
01:07:13
just part of my uh my role when I was a New Zealand Rugby Ambassador I was over there doing some work for them and um
01:07:21
staying at the hotel go down for breakfast and um looking there's no spare seats left and the only I see him
01:07:28
sitting at the breakfast seeing at breakfast and he's like do you want to come and sit with me so yeah water under
01:07:34
the bridge like I said Rugby's rugby there's things that happen on the field
01:07:38
and we had a good chat never talked about what happened on the field um but it was those are those
01:07:45
moments you're like oh good to have these they sort of just put a into a story you know yeah I like that and um
01:07:53
yeah Richie mccor and yourself you um yeah he started like a year your your career is like um basically ran parallel
01:07:59
didn't they so he he started like a year before you but you both um ended at the
01:08:03
exact same time after the uh 2015 Rugby World Cup and I've heard stories about
01:08:07
him um like getting back onto the P bus after the game on the way back to the hotel with his cat still on because he
01:08:13
knew that when he took it off it was going to be the last time he took it off um what about yeah what was that like
01:08:18
for you was that sort of um like a special occasion a special week obviously you know you won the World Cup
01:08:24
um but yeah must must be a weird week after after you've been in that Jersey
01:08:28
for 132 times like um you spend the week thinking oh this is the last time I'm
01:08:32
going to be presented this jersey um this is the last time I'm going to you know put the boots on yeah it must be a
01:08:39
surreal week yes and no M you know because we know from experiences that we've seen and things that have been
01:08:49
shared with you is that if you if you allow your mind to drift there um it's
01:08:54
quite dangerous for what that means how you perform for the team especially in big games like
01:08:59
this and so I can tell you from my point of view I'm not too sure for Richie
01:09:03
can't speak for Richie but that week is spent making sure it looks no different
01:09:08
to any other week you don't let your mind DFT you kind of 4 to you're doing
01:09:12
your team a disservice when you're when you're thinking about you as an individual this is my last game is never
01:09:19
me so um doing your part for the team making sure that that I'm prepared me me
01:09:25
I have to treat treat this like a how I prepare for a test match which is doing making sure I'm prepared when I go on I
01:09:32
can do my rooll really well time for reflection that comes after we finish the game yeah after we lucky enough to
01:09:38
take the cup home yeah there's time to be to do that with family and friends
01:09:43
and talk about man this rad was awesome we achieved this we did this we took our
01:09:48
family away and did these things but you don't let it affect especially when
01:09:54
you're preparing for such a big MCH it's just your mind's got to be in that
01:09:58
moment preparing well yeah you guys seem to have a really good relationship I was flicking through
01:10:05
his book yesterday and he he um right the way through the book he only ever refers to as
01:10:11
kevie which is really nice what did you have a nickname for him skip skip skip right that's very respectful oh yeah and
01:10:19
even even today when we still see him still skip M and I think I think I think that's what made him such a great
01:10:27
Captain one of the best is um just the respect that he had from everyone and that usually comes from the way someone
01:10:35
carries himself definitely when things when there's parts to the to a week where things need to be said do
01:10:43
need to say much but he'll show us every time D I can tell you in our last year
01:10:48
of being all blacks actually all the way through and up until the last our last week of
01:10:54
training last training week he's always the first one on the field you can imagine what his body's been through how
01:11:00
many times he's trained what he's taken his body through but he was out before
01:11:05
everyone else and his warm up Dom he'd be doing like hundreds we would all be
01:11:11
like you know he'd be out there running hundreds like he was um running a Bronco so so he
01:11:18
always that part of it is where he he really got his respect from everyone just Led Led really well yeah amazing oh
01:11:27
that kind words yeah who who are you who are you still like um I think maybe this
01:11:32
was in Richie's movie or Dan's movie but um was one of their movies Dan was
01:11:36
talking about how he the only conversations he ever had with Richie were about rugby um yeah were you were you the same
01:11:45
was he just like just when he's in that environment is he just focused on Rugby
01:11:49
and nothing else he he a pretty focused man that's why he was so successful yeah
01:11:54
right um but no I mean I think we I think we can build some really good trust we build Next
01:12:02
Level teams is sometimes you just need to go a little bit deeper and doesn't mean you go too deep where
01:12:10
you can't get yourself out but you just got to have conversations that mean a
01:12:12
little bit more than the game because that's where you get to understand people better that's where you have
01:12:19
better connection so I just think those parts are really important just going a little bit deeper what what are things
01:12:25
that are important to you um yeah and so yeah we would have those conversations outside rugby which
01:12:32
I think were really cool M and um although we we had different backgrounds we still still the same things meant a
01:12:38
lot to us our parents our family why are we doing this what do we want to leave behind so yeah yeah who
01:12:45
who was the insat that were you sort of the in inator of those chats cuz I fully
01:12:48
agree with what you're saying it's it's called um there's a name for it it's
01:12:51
called like a vulnerability exchange yes um but someone someone in any friend group has to be um the instigator the
01:12:58
person that takes the brave step and has the vulnerable conversation first I feel
01:13:02
like that would be you in most situations yeah I agree because I I know the value of it yeah so yeah and it just
01:13:10
sometimes when you don't know people well you just need something that that you can be on the same line or same page
01:13:16
with so I'll definitely spend the time to to go a little bit deeper just so so
01:13:22
there's a better connection there yeah brilliant what what do you miss and don't you miss about
01:13:28
it I sort of do miss the contact oh really the physicality physicality do you I don't miss the saus
01:13:35
the next day but you must have been you must have been in pain the next day like were
01:13:42
you're hbling around for a couple of days after each game it's just you know
01:13:46
you know if you haven't done the the recovery right you just it's just your
01:13:50
offset the rest of the week you know cuz you're trying to get yourself ready to
01:13:53
go again and if if you haven't done that well you you always end up starting the
01:13:58
week it starts later in the week you know so you know as you as you get on and you start knowing your body better
01:14:05
you spend a lot more time making sure that it's ready to go each week but I I
01:14:11
don't know it's that why I say probably why I say the contact is because that's
01:14:14
what makes contact sport rugby league those really important because there's a
01:14:19
certain level of trust that you have with your teammates if I'm in a scrum I got two
01:14:25
props next to me and evil one Assets in that scrum we're pretty much looking
01:14:28
after each other at the same time cuz if someone doesn't do their job that can be quite fatal so um that's
01:14:36
why that's probably the parts that I think that quite that build great teams
01:14:41
and what I miss is that being tight with a team going to the doing whatever we needed to do to
01:14:48
make sure the team did well you know and a lot of that is contact yeah a lot of it for you was cont
01:14:55
yeah um you may miss at your opponents sure as hell don't I um were you um were
01:15:01
you quite a social do you drink or no a little bit yeah I'm not a not a massive
01:15:06
not a massive drinker but um yeah I didn't I didn't drink at all when I first started um when I first started my
01:15:13
career then I met my wife she's a Wine Drinker Stillers and I just learned you
01:15:20
know because i' always seen one side of things drinking people going off their
01:15:24
face sort of looking at a different lens and then I sort of realized um with my wife
01:15:30
was just you can have social drink and enjoy each other's company without having to go go too far go too far
01:15:37
there's definitely nights for that definitely have nights for that but um yeah I just I always had this perception
01:15:43
that's what it looked like is she I'm a one drink to is she red or white she's red right yeah oh same here
01:15:51
y oh my God it's great with food isn't it so God food gr companies let's talk about your wife so
01:15:59
um Ty yes yeah yeah yeah so um yeah how long you guys been married like 25 years
01:16:05
uh 20 23 years 23 years yes yeah what's what's what's the key to success um just
01:16:13
do as you're told I think there's different there's different seasons different seasons to
01:16:20
um marriage and um definitely takes a lot of um giving and sharing and there's a lot to it D to
01:16:31
be honest um but I think that part where we just we learn to adapt to each other
01:16:37
because as you get older things change um but you know being able to keep these connections and keep the love
01:16:44
and romance alive I think it's really important hard to talk about on camera
01:16:49
but you know these when those parts when you understand your partner really well
01:16:54
when you understand what makes him tick then you've got to make sure you put
01:16:58
that into life as well yeah because we're the we're the same but different
01:17:02
if that Mak sense some things we quite similar on but then there's uh other things we we see differently which is
01:17:11
great it's healthy it's healthy um yeah so I think that give and takes really
01:17:17
important how you can do that and then also having good mentors around you seeing it been done really well my
01:17:23
parents all of that my my in-laws are like that we've got friends and family
01:17:28
that are like that as well so that also helps on the journey as well yeah she she would have seen like
01:17:36
every s of K me ALU imaginable yeah like um are you able to raise your voice like
01:17:42
do you do you ever have an argument I do I I do do that and um apologies H I'm
01:17:49
sorry when I do that um and you're right they see the they see the the sides of us but they
01:17:55
also see when we're at our worst as well and um to say that she's still here with
01:18:00
me speaks volumes absolutely but you're a you're you're such a romantic aren't
01:18:06
you if you follow you on Instagram you're always you're always um you upping her and giving her shoutouts and
01:18:11
stuff and writing beautiful captions oh she's amazing I uh I've caught I I don't know how to say this
01:18:18
you know if you're fishing you caught a whale but I've caught the best in the
01:18:22
you don't say you caught a whale I haven't caught a whale but I've caught
01:18:24
the the big fish I caught the big fish yeah even that sounds offensive sorry yeah I've caught the best caught the be
01:18:32
um so you guys met um I saw a photo of you early in your relationship you look quite small like yeah you bulked out a
01:18:39
lot later in your career so you're quite young you're like 19 um and you're playing NPC for ockland
01:18:44
and you're down in denen and you meet her at a bar yep and it's like love at
01:18:49
first sight over a crowded room or pretty much just like how it happens in a movie actually
01:18:55
and um she was probably one of the things I remember she was wearing like a leather jacket with a dragon on the
01:19:01
back and it was it was it was the last it was uh the last Cy right yeah oh sorry yeah and it was the last call
01:19:09
last so um yeah it's yeah definitely one of those moments where just you know
01:19:16
it's a long time ago but it's Vivid it's really clear and it almost looks like a
01:19:21
movie scene you know yeah and is is it true that it's the same bar that that
01:19:25
where her parents met it is very cool that we met at the same bar that her parents met
01:19:31
at it's crazy it's crazy and she she didn't she wasn't Star Strike or
01:19:36
anything she had no idea who you were apparently she didn't watch rugby yeah
01:19:40
she she didn't come to a game her sister did came to the game Oakland oara and um but yeah she she wasn't a s
01:19:48
didn't follow rugby so so must have done pretty well and then how long how long were you um doing
01:19:55
the long distance thing for we did it for a couple of years uh maybe for about a year and a half and then yep she had
01:20:02
been having a making a few trips up actually actually D this is a good story actually so our met in 99 and uh at the
01:20:11
end of 99 I had a good NPC season so I was sent away for the Legends um New Zealand Legends and some of the guys in
01:20:18
that team were um backups for the Rugby World Cup over in England and France um but as I was going over in that team
01:20:28
I was the only that was the only one that was um a nonprofessional everyone else was semi was professional playing
01:20:33
Super Rugby so I spent quite a bit of money bringing her up to Oakland and um for that time for us to
01:20:42
spend together and when it was time to go away on that trip I um it wasn't a paid trip so we had a
01:20:51
flights in that accommodation pay for um but there was you to sort of pretty much
01:20:55
take care of yourself over there and we're driving to Sky City this is where
01:21:00
the team's meeting before we go and there goes how much are you how much are
01:21:04
you taking over son and I just said uh taking over $500 for a couple of weeks New Zealand
01:21:10
to go to UK go stay in England and he was he was so fired up he was like what have you done with your money and I
01:21:18
couldn't say Obviously you I've been flying tie up yeah um but he was so
01:21:23
Furious and I could see that I can see that now as a day too it's like and um
01:21:31
actually you can imagine what that would have been like so he was blowing me up but then I
01:21:38
got I I did get a call from him just before I left and he just said you know son have a safe trip we'll see you when
01:21:43
you get back but over there this and this is why I always believe in looking after our young place while I was over
01:21:50
there we're watching the All Blacks lose to France we were watching at a and I you obviously that I didn't want
01:21:57
to be in that be there for too long so I caught a taxi home and that was most of
01:22:01
the money I took took over for the taxi when I was looking at the um the taxi CHP going up and I was
01:22:08
like so most of the actually most of that trip I was on um Skin and Bones to be honest and I you know you don't reach
01:22:15
out to someone and say oh can I have you got a yeah can I borrow handy yeah so yeah most of that that trip I was uh
01:22:23
having the coffee and biscuits that they have in the room actually actually cuz you know
01:22:30
sometimes I go oh you guys go out and find your own lunch or go and find your own dinner and I was like H you just to
01:22:36
embarrassed or uh oh yeah I wasn't going to ask anyone both and I that's not me too you
01:22:42
know usually I try and figure it out myself and um so every time we have new players and a team and we're away on
01:22:50
tour I always make sure let's go out to lunch I'm taking which is a good team b anyway yeah
01:22:58
um but you just never know especially for a young person that's coming to a [Music]
01:23:04
team that um that story U seems very believable cuz I heard another story about you so this is early in the
01:23:09
relationship um with your wife so you you'd send her from Oakland to denan like a single rose every week is that
01:23:17
true or can I just ask where you got the source from I can never reveal my SCE no
01:23:24
I think read online somewhere did maybe it was a woman's weekly story or a woman's day story quite possibly you
01:23:28
seen her a rose every week and then um you were that at that time you were um uh I think you were living you're
01:23:35
living in South maybe you're working in pepo or somewhere and you have to like
01:23:41
walk the nine the8 or nine kilometers to work um because you had no money to pay
01:23:45
for you taxes or petrol or anything because you spent all your money on roses and uh I used to have a 10p speed
01:23:50
you know those bikes that used to have tread like that and always always always flat tire spend most of my time walking
01:23:57
the bike home but um you know it's I probably when I look back at it now those are the Investments I've invested
01:24:05
in into our relationship and um yeah that's true that's so romantic oh thank
01:24:12
you yeah it's probably what we should be doing right yeah and I probably need to
01:24:16
do more of it now when I think about it now D actually as life's gotten on thanks for reminding me it's probably
01:24:23
something I need to do more of now yeah no worries um man this is a great chat you're such a good dude um one thing uh
01:24:31
I've realized I'm 51 now you're what 45 yes yeah no one gets to the privilege of
01:24:37
making it to our age in life um without going through some you know some sort of
01:24:40
tough times or adversity yes so um what's it been for you what's some of
01:24:44
the what's some of the biggest challenges you've gone through um I think I mentioned a couple
01:24:49
in there uh you know which is just around having to provide for family um and you know possibly some of the
01:24:59
career career stuff is tough when you think about it but then everything in perspective um sometimes not as big as
01:25:07
what you think he yeah at at the time it seems at the time it seems big you look back and you
01:25:12
look back and go man why did I let that Hound me um suppose especially um in a a
01:25:18
job like if you if you're lucky enough to make the or and you're playing for
01:25:21
the country and you know there's so much of a public buying so it must just at
01:25:25
times must feel like the whole world's against you yeah I think probably probably and it's it's not just
01:25:36
like one event it's just that constant am I doing enough so am I doing enough
01:25:42
to make sure my family all right I'm I'm okay I love and know I was talking to a
01:25:48
good friend this morning just around you know we love doing things for other people and brothers big on making making
01:25:54
sure um you got to do some selfcare so maybe it's maybe it's not the one event
01:26:00
but it's the constantly asking myself am I doing enough am I doing enough as
01:26:04
hubby am I doing enough as Dad am I doing enough for others I'm constantly asking that so
01:26:12
there's this I don't know if it's comparison but I'm always am I doing
01:26:16
enough asking the question yeah are you good are you good at like prioritizing yourself sometimes as
01:26:22
well I would say yes but I think other people might say no um but but but it makes me feel good
01:26:29
yeah yeah it makes me feel good FS my cup when I see someone walking away happy um some people say to me you know
01:26:36
do you ever get sick of taking photos or signing something for someone if you know the joy that people
01:26:43
get when they walk away man I would never get tired of that it should never make
01:26:48
you pissed off or angry when someone comes and asks us for a photo that's a privilege right it's a privilege isn't
01:26:55
it you must get it a bit too right in all honesty similar amount to you kie no no and know it is it's it's humbling
01:27:03
like if someone comes up to me when I'm in a coffee store and says they they
01:27:06
like the podcast or they comment on bit different things it's um it's an
01:27:08
absolute honor I am I'm completely humbled by it yeah it's cool I see i'
01:27:14
see it the same way too yeah Dom so it's it's a privilege that we have right
01:27:18
absolutely does what about your mental health has your mental health been good over the
01:27:23
years uh um I'm still here and I think I've had challenging moments and uh if there was one thing I love to
01:27:34
share is just being able to have you know we talked about what does your support look like family's been huge on
01:27:39
that I think you know if all of us that have gone through Co have gone through things looked at things differently when
01:27:46
you've had time to spend more time by yourself often start thinking a lot more
01:27:51
than you should or have to so so I just think I've been lucky enough to have
01:27:56
great people whether that be my direct family or you know or even just you know having a brother that I can just talk to
01:28:04
about anything I just I know now how important that is having someone that you can have
01:28:10
that have those conversations with you know have you always been good with that with the the vulnerable conversations
01:28:15
the tough conversations I don't think so um but but I know how necessary it is so
01:28:24
um it's funny you'll encourage it of other people but won't do it yourself
01:28:29
you know yeah if that makes sense you know it's right but it's hard it's
01:28:33
really hard that's it it's difficult especially like you said when people see
01:28:37
you a certain way yeah um and I'm not saying I'm perfect but you know if
01:28:42
people say you're a good person you do all these good things doesn't mean
01:28:45
perfect still so many things in life to work on so I'm not that I have bad days
01:28:54
and it might not be bad to you but when you when I look at it myself I'm just
01:28:56
like oh a bad day on the K mearm is perfection for most other people but that's what I mean you know like we will
01:29:04
look at it through different lenses but for me might be might feel like the world's falling down you know yeah just
01:29:11
cuz you haven't met your own personal standards yeah um and what's your inner
01:29:15
voice like are you are you mostly quite kind to yourself um are you quite hard on
01:29:21
yourself I think I've learned to be kind of myself M cuz I know that's um that's what allows me to be that's
01:29:30
what allows me to be who I am if that makes sense if I want to project that then I've got to know how to do that for
01:29:37
myself yeah yeah cuz it seems like you got very you've got very high expectations for yourself you yeah
01:29:43
really like just and impossibly high standards which is a which is a a good thing but as long as you um yeah as as
01:29:51
long as you're in a voice is good I know like I'm I'm think of some like high
01:29:55
performance I've had on the the podcast including like d m Lisa Carrington Mee K
01:29:59
the cricker and Michaela blide um and they all struggle with it like you know the way they speak to themselves
01:30:05
internally yes yeah yeah I think there some days like at the moment you know how I was just saying like I'm on this
01:30:12
med I'm on medication at the moment I can't train the way I I like to I look
01:30:16
at myself in the mirror and go that's not the person I want to be and like you
01:30:19
might look at me and go no you look fine you just look the same in my head I'm just like man I feel I
01:30:27
don't feel the way it's not making me feel the way I want to feel you know so we still have
01:30:33
these conversations in in the head um but yeah K's going to be okay we'll just
01:30:39
slowly build this we can slowly start doing some things to make sure it happens so yeah well thanks for sharing
01:30:45
that thank you um what about Legacy how would you like how like how how would you like people to remember
01:30:52
you uh um someone who was thoughtful um genuine generous um I think those probably some
01:31:08
of the words are just they just came straight to mine um kind everyone says kind
01:31:15
yep and I you know I spoke with someone yesterday they said you know some people
01:31:20
hate Co people who well does doesn't bother me you know like you do you I'll do me
01:31:28
yeah K this has been great thank you so much I appreciate thank you like I said before thank you for your time thank you
01:31:35
for the opportunity it's awesome no man it's been an honor to sit with you and
01:31:40
um I everyone I reached out to you to um that you know through your playing career that had words to say about you
01:31:47
um I can't do anything except Echo what they all said like you are just one of a
01:31:51
kind um yeah just being around you you you want to be more like K Mamu which I think that's a really cool thing I think
01:31:59
you're a pretty um pretty awesome person as well d k me L thanks so much thank you