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Scott Donaldson, welcome to my podcast. >> Thank you. Great to be here, >> man. It's It's great to have you here.
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Like, um, for anyone that's watching this, they'll they'll see you. You're
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just like an an an unassuming looking Kiwi dude and an Adidash shirt. And people that meet you in day-to-day life
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may not know this, but um, you you've done some crazy stuff. >> Yeah. Yeah. Based on on normal people's
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perspectives. Yeah. done done some out of the box stuff. >> Yeah. So, in 2018, you made history when
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you became the first person to kayak solo from Australia to New Zealand, uh, which is 2,200 km or should be.
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>> Um, took you 62 days and this was your third attempt at doing it. >> Yeah, 61 days, 10 hours, but uh,
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>> sorry for ramping up. Um, yeah, it's it's historical, but if you do know my previous history in life,
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then it's not kind of that outside the box. So, people say, "How long did you
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train for this for?" Well, lifetime really. Yeah. >> Yeah. Previous history, what do you
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mean? What what led you to do this? >> Uh, philosophically, I was a coach of
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many people for many things uh over a lot of years. Uh and and I coached some people to do outside the box stuff like
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uh double iron man. Um I coached the oldest woman to swim the [ __ ] straight, you know, things that were just outside
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the box and I wanted to just ramp it up. So, one night when I was pedaling with my flatty on um Lacroa
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and we were out there and it was dark and it was a good 30 knot wind and a one m chop and we were just having fun and
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it just occurred to me that I wanted to up the game and say right I know these principles work because we've been
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teaching them and I just wanted to say right how do we how do we up the game here and that was uh that's what jumped
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into my appeal box. Yeah. Some people would probably say it's like a death wash.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Have you heard that? >> Uh yeah, I have. I mean, given the
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history of the Tasmin, obviously um one paddler has has passed doing that. That wasn't
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it it wasn't too relative in terms of risk because risk is uh a long conversation actually. Risk is an
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opinion. Um Well, it is especially these days. Uh there there's a lot of ways to look at
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that. Uh one way to look at that will be if you've got the skill level to to do
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it, then it's relevant. Because if I jumped into a F1 car and said, "Okay,
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you know, I'm a good driver. I drive every day. I can do this. No way. The risk profile is ridiculous." I' I'd end
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up in the fence, especially if I tried to go fast. Um whereas, you know, Mr. Lawson, if he's doing it, it's just
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another day at work. >> Mhm. >> He's got the skill set for it and that's
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what he does. So, for him to go two or 300k an hour, that's that's normal. Um,
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and it's it applies in some ways to to what I did. I'm happy out there. I'm
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comfortable out there. I've got the skill set out there and I'm making decisions that I'm comfortable with. the
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worst case in terms of media and how you look at it. Most people have absolutely
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no idea what it's like to be in the tasine and nor should they nor do they have the skill set. It's like, okay, if
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you can't swim, then don't go and get in the beach at Piha. Don't do it. You
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haven't got the skill set. But if you're, you know, if you're Danny Loa,
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go ahead. >> You know, you've got the skills. >> Yeah. But there's that saying that the
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ocean doesn't know you're an expert. >> Correct. Correct. And there's, you know,
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it's >> variables. >> It's an environment and it's an environment. You have to respect the
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ocean's rules. It's it's not uh it's not health and safety. It's the ocean's
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rules. And if you get them wrong, you get consequences. >> Um, and sometimes they're delivered. I
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mean, you could jump in that kayak and start traveling across the Tasman given enough food, etc., etc., and you've got
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a probably a 20% maybe a 30% chance of of making it. >> Um, >> that's not great odds.
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>> No, it's not. But that's that's given you've got no C skills and no practice,
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you've still got a chance of making it. You know what I mean? um as opposed at the other end of the
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spectrum uh I've got a lot of chance making it because of the decisions I make. So for us um Nigel Lecott who was
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my base manager we're um we're of the same opinion when it regarding health
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and safety. That's why we called it um on the first trip. Uh basically the call
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was in his his uh purview for for the whole trip. If he wanted to call it, he called it. He
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always had the last say on that. And that's because safety is a calculation.
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Safety's got nothing to do with how you feel. And a lot of people get emotional.
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Even even if you comment on the fact that it's it's a death wish. That's because there's there's that's
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probably comes from a place of emotion. It doesn't come from a place of experience. And emotions have no place
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when it comes to you know all health and safety is based on calculations. That's
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where it comes from. It's history. Okay, this has happened. This has happened.
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Then that's what we do. It's all a calculation. >> So, um, you your wife Sarah, so this
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2018 attempt where you did it and made history, um, at the time you're married
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and you've got your son, Zach, who's eight at the time? >> Yep. >> So, what does she think in terms of the
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chance of you making it? Like 90% chance, 95% chance? >> Uh, no. She's confident. and and 2018 is
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is uh a culmination of a of a long trip, you know. Um 2014 was the steep learning
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curve because it's never been done before. Um and and in retrospect, I think we did everything right. There was
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there was nothing I could have done planning wise to predict what was going to happen other than you know things are
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going to happen that you haven't predicted. >> That's the nature of the environment.
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>> Expect the unexpected. >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And be flexible. >> My god, there Yeah, there's so much to
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talk about. Um, yeah. So, so 2013, that was your first attempt. >> Uh, yeah, they say I've attempted it
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three times. Um, >> you seem dark about this. >> It's a media thing. I've attempted it
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twice. >> If you're training for a marathon and you put your shoes on, you run out the
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driveway and go, "Shit, I broke a lace." Go back in. Do you put that in your
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training training diary? No, >> exactly. So, I got out there a day and my satphone got wet in a bag that I
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didn't think was going to get wet. I bought it in order not to get wet. Um, and it just got wet. So, the satphone,
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which is your number one device, I did have backup. I had two redundancies, three redundancies of or one one option
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and two redundancies of everything was the the rule of thumb for the trip. >> But it was too early to to lose that
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kind of fundamental equipment. So, okay. Turning around, going back. >> Why don't you just go again the next day
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or the next week? >> Uh, weather. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's complex,
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>> right? Okay. So, it's a real precise window that you're looking at.
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>> Yeah. Okay. Probably probably should start by explaining what the Tasman is.
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It's it's actually harder than it sounds. Uh way harder. Uh the Tasman is
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a pretty special piece of water. They've been crossing larger bodies of water for
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years, like the Atlantic, for example, that was pedled a long, long time ago. There's a reason for that. It exists
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with trade winds. So, you jump in a tractor, tire tube, way you go. You'll get there eventually. Um, the Tasman's
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not like that. It's because you've got a u you've got a a driving weather force across the top
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of the Tasman and across the bottom of the Tasman going in opposite directions that way. And in the Tasine, you got a
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whole lot of circles. So, you know, you think river, there's a whole lot of edies. Um, this isn't even a R river.
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It's a whole lot of eddies. The biggest, strongest Eddie, which can be up to six
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knots, is the East Australian current. You know, Nemo was actually, it was real. There is an East Australian
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current there, and it's quite strong, and it runs down the side of Aussie, but
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it's not like it's a river running down the side of Aussie. It's a whole lot of
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really big wagon wheels that if you know, if you're in six knots, you can't
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pedal to that. My speed's three roughly um on a daily basis. So, if I'm in a six
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knot current, I'm not I'm not I'm going to go three knots backwards if I'm
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pedaling into it. >> And then that also affects your angles, your vectors. Um you think, oh, okay, if
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I'm running at 90° to this current, I can go this speed. That's not actually
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the case. You know, you have to offset by 5 or 10 degrees to actually pick up speed. It's um that's the first thing
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you do when you're building a boat, but I guess we'll get back to that in a sec.
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Um, so the tasine is a bunch of circles which makes that body of water tricky which is why it hasn't been done till
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now. >> You know, otherwise it would distance-wise 2,200 that's that's not so
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much. Um, and the the Atlantic's much much longer, but it it's a far easier
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paddle. Even from uh this guy did um mainland US to Hawaii, that's a lot longer as well. But again, it's a it's a
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weather driven paddle. You're going to get there eventually. >> Mhm. Um, so I I would having not done
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that pedal, but I would view it as easier conditions wise and um and power-wise. So the power calculation
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when you go into the TASM, that's that's kind of step one. That's the tricky
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part. Uh, okay. First of all, how long it's going to take? Don't know. Um, and
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so how much food do I take? Don't know. Because how big am I going to build the
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boat? Don't know. I can build a bus, but a bus is not going to get into six knots
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very effectively. >> So, that's the first thing you got to do is figure out, okay, this is my vessel.
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Um, what does it do in a straight line into a headwind? What does it do into 10 knots? What does it do into 20 knots?
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Okay, right, Neil, let's offset that by 45 degrees. And you end up with a wagon
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wheel of the boat's ability. That's what sailors do in their calculations.
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They've got, right? How much sail area have I got up? How fast am I going to
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go? Etc., etc. So, you've got to do those same calculations. It's amazing
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how many people get into this and don't start there. It's like, okay, what does
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what does your boat do? Uh, I don't know. Um, it's it's maths. It's just And
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you've got to do it to start with. Okay, now I've got a basic idea of how much
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speed I've got and what conditions I can combat when. Now, let's put those
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conditions into windy.com and say, "Right, okay. How how can I progress here?" um your weather's only going to
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be predictable for three days guaranteed and you know the forecasts go out longer
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than that but they're really not accurate. So uh you need to know what you're going to come up against which is
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a whole lot of circles. You're going to go backwards. It's nothing you can avoid
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out there because you cannot predict what's coming and you can't do anything
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about it. So there's sailing across the tasine is different to paddling because
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it's sailing. Okay, there's a big weather system coming. Maybe I can offset that by, you know, 100 mile.
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>> You can't do that in the kayak. So that's the first challenge to the Tasine
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is how big is my boat? How fast is it going to go? And then how much food and gear am I going to need to put in it? So
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what size boat do we build? >> Yeah. And and it's tiny. Um I've got a
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photo of it here. Um, this is the double Dutch. Like it's a it's a kayak. It's
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it's a it's a spec specially built kayak, but it's just a kayak like Lisa
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Carrington has at the Olympics. >> The the Yeah. Well, yeah, it's it's a
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double kayak, but yes. >> Yeah. The hull is actually double kayak length, >> 6.5.
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>> So, you can sleep in it, but it's um not particularly roomy. We'll we'll get into
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that too soon, but um Sure. >> Yeah. So, so, uh, 2013 was that false start.
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Like going back from that. Yeah. Yeah. When, when, how long was it from first having the idea of say of um, kayaking
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from Australia to New Zealand? >> Four years. >> Four years. >> That Olympic cycle. Yeah.
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>> Right. >> Yeah. >> Four years of like like like deep thought and
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>> Oh, absolutely. what I've just explained was like the starting point and you know we could
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just talk about that for the next two or three hours cuz there is a lot of detail
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to be had there you know what do we build the boat out of how robust does it really need to be you know based on on
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history clearly it's come apart for a few people um how do I want to approach
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this the same as this so you know go talk to people who's done what talk to sailors you know get as much information
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as you can understanding that they're still not doing what you're trying to
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achieve >> but No one had done this before though. >> No, exactly. >> So, yeah, that that would be my big
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thing. Like, how how could you be completely confident that the boat's not going to you be hit by a freak wave and
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snap in half? >> Yeah. Um, yeah, you you need to be you need to be. And again, it's amazing how many guys don't.
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I mean, there's a guy tried this in between my attempts and he uh he built his own boat
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and uh lasted not 48 hours and he was pulled out of the water and he didn't know why his boat sunk.
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>> Now, to me, that's a lack of preparation. Um I could have tried to build my boat in the garage as well and
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a lot of guys do this because it's way cheaper. It's vastly cheaper. Um but I
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I'm like, "Okay, well, that's exactly the consideration you need to start
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with. I need a boat that I can rely on and is safe and is not going to sink."
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Um, so, you know, people have had that idea before, you know, Titanic. >> Um, so I went to, you know, who's the
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best in the country that I can get to do this or or who's who's got the skills
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and is up there. You know, I I could have put a bit of, you know, carbon or or glass on over a mold and and had a
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crack at it and I think I would have done a reasonable job, but reasonable is not good enough. You want the best.
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>> So, you know, I went to Barracuda Kayaks and talked to Gordon who's got a lot of
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uh well, he built the Tasman, sorry, the Atlantic boats, the rowing boats initially um when they first had to do
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those. So, he's he's clearly got the skills in terms of production. Uh, and
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he's also got a kayaking history. So, it's like, okay, well, this guy's as
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close as I can get to as good as I can get. Um, so let's start there and let's
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start working with that. >> Yeah. And and you've still got the boat Double Dutch. It's in your garage at
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home. >> Yeah. Yeah. Second second iteration. Yes. >> Still in good nick.
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>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I' I' I'd put it through a hell of a lot of testing, but I'd use
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it again. >> Um, it's it's a few years on now. Um, so >> yeah. How how do you feel when you see
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it now? Uh, >> is it like h happy memories or >> Oh, 100%. Like there's there's not one
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minute of this that I didn't love to bits if you said here's all the money in
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the world, you know, go and do it again. Sure. >> I I got to call [ __ ] happy place.
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>> There's We're going to get into this, but um there was a point in this uh
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successful crossing where >> you spent six days locked up in that tiny little cabin, which is like a
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coffin. Yep. Um maybe it's um is that type three fund like you look back now
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with the benefit of years of high sudden you think oh that was actually all right
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at the time that must have been miserable. >> It was only miserable because of the
00:16:02
circumstances. I I'll get to that. >> Oh because you're being blown backwards.
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>> No no no. So um that's kind of a longer story. So in the first attempt
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>> Yeah. I'm literally, this is a longer story I guess, but the short story is I was literally going
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backwards in the middle of the tasine and Sarah's mom was ill and had been ill
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for a long time. Um, she was quite close with the mom and um I was at Lord How and I was talking to
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her again about, you know, how is she, where's she at and it wasn't looking
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great and like we' we'd blow the budget. It's just like I can't afford to fly to
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New Zealand. I said just go, you know, we'll we'll sort it out later. Um, so we
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had that discussion and I'm like, I'll I'll can this. I'll come home now. And
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she's like, no, no, she's still she's still ticking along. She's in the
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hospital, but she's still ticking along. No, you go. Um, little did I know, one
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day later, she passed. But she told me a few days after that and that happened to be
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uh I can't remember how long it was going backwards. I think it was three days going backwards and it just I found
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that out and then I spent three days going backwards. Now that that took some yeah that took some pounding and that
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was just because of the emotional situation. I mean the backwards part you expectations you know they're the mother
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of all you know you've got to you've got to be an expert at dismissing expectations when you're not dictating
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anything >> you know >> yeah I can't imagine the feeling of help
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helplessness at that point >> that that was fundamentally it you're just completely helpless I mean that's
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the only time I was upset and it wasn't for safety reasons or I That's what I
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signed up for. The the big stuff is fun and and you know, as as you've sort of
00:18:00
suggested, I've got a bit of a history in sadistic type stuff. So, you know,
00:18:04
I'm I'm type three fun all the way. >> Yeah. >> So, what are you feeling at that point?
00:18:08
This the feeling of helplessness. Um are you feeling like guilty that you know you're you're out in the middle of the
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ocean bobbing around when you should be at home with the >> Well, I've I've put together a a very
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extensive psychological toolbox for this. So, that's that's what I I didn't
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A lot of people don't understand that there is effective tools for all of this
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except when you put that kind of weight on it. >> Um, but I've still got to survive. So,
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you can't you just can't lose the plot out there. Soon as you lose the plot,
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that's when your risk profile goes up. So, that was one of my main directives
00:18:42
from the start. Yeah. So, I had to decide where am I going to go? So, Justin and James had had a pretty
00:18:47
successful trip. So I thought, okay, they're the guys in terms of tracking that I want to replicate. Seems like a
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nice balance. >> See, so you leave from Coffs Harour and you're not sure where you're going to
00:18:59
land. Just somewhere on the uh west coast. >> Yeah, >> like could be Raglin. Ended up being
00:19:04
Tatanaki. Y >> um but yeah, anywhere in that sort of vicinity. >> Yeah, it's it's a bit of an ugly coast
00:19:09
to try to land on. Um, I mean, New Plymouth is always the the aim, the goal. It's closest and and the water
00:19:18
currents tend to take you there. So, the currents by Australia really strong, you
00:19:22
know, up to six knots. Um, as you go across the Tasine, the wagon wheels get smaller, the
00:19:28
currents get way more fickle. So, by the time you get to New Zealand, there's
00:19:32
really nothing over two knots. Still significant, but way more fickle in the middle. And that's why you're going to
00:19:40
go backwards because they're just not predictable. There's not enough data to
00:19:42
predict. >> Yeah. >> What they're doing. >> So, um, 2014, uh, so we'll call this
00:19:48
your first attempt cuz the one in 2013, you've, um, you're catching on. >> You've clarified that.
00:19:54
>> You're dirty about that. I can tell. >> Well, it is like you wouldn't put that
00:19:58
out the driveway in in your training diary. So, >> full start. I can I can tell it pisses
00:20:03
you off and rightfully so. So, um, 2014, you're almost finished. You you're how
00:20:07
close to land? Uh I don't know. 70 80. >> Yeah. What what happened? That's
00:20:12
devastating. >> Um Yeah. Yeah. So the the first one was an adventure. The second one was a race.
00:20:19
>> Um >> the first one isn't the one we're talking about where you almost finished.
00:20:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. That was an adventure because you don't know anything. You
00:20:25
don't know a thing. You really don't. Even though you've done all your as much
00:20:29
planning as you can. So like rule of thumb, three things. If I've I've got
00:20:34
three pedals, right? Um, you know, you've got two contingencies on everything, on your communications, on
00:20:41
your paddles, on everything. So, that was >> Where are the Sorry, sorry to interrupt.
00:20:45
I'm just looking at the photo. Where are the uh where are the other two paddles
00:20:47
>> inside the top? They're strapped to the top, >> right? >> There's There's pictures on the internet
00:20:52
of me inside the cabin that >> that'll show you that probably. >> Okay.
00:20:58
>> Um, so what happened on the first ones? The first one was an adventure and that was
00:21:04
if that was the first trip in that photo. There was a bit of intrepidation there because it's like what's going to
00:21:10
happen? All I'd done is pedal out the driveway and back and that was a bit stressful in that uh on the way back the
00:21:17
current's going so fast down the coast. I'm trying to make it into Port McQuary
00:21:23
in the dark. never been there off GPS and I know it's a reasonably notorious entry to the um to the marina
00:21:33
there. So, and I've never seen and I know the coastline's rocky. So when you
00:21:38
can't see anything and you're approaching a a country that you haven't
00:21:42
seen and so I had to on the way back in I had to paddle my ass off for I don't
00:21:46
know at least 12 hours just to stop getting swept down to okay now you've got to pedal to Sydney.
00:21:54
>> Um so I did that and then I came in and it was an outgoing current on the on the
00:22:00
inlet. So I'm sitting there and there's it's it's quite a decent uh hall through
00:22:06
there. I'm paddling into about three knots and my boat only goes three knots.
00:22:11
So, I'm doing I'm It took me I think an hour and a half to get 200 mters
00:22:18
to get in there and then get out of the current. So, I was paddling my ass off just to get it right because if you get
00:22:23
it wrong, you're in the rocks. >> Your boat's getting, you know, everything you put your life into is
00:22:28
getting damaged or um so that was that was kind of fun. And uh so the second trip
00:22:35
uh obviously I changed the dry bag that that was supposed to contain the satphone. So um you know I'd made a
00:22:43
couple of changes but I didn't have that much experience. So but that was an
00:22:46
adventure I was really looking forward to because it was exactly like no one's
00:22:50
done this. >> That just excited the hell out of me because I was prepared.
00:22:54
>> Uh and in retrospect I was more I was actually prepared more prepared than
00:22:59
most of the guys I see doing this. um you know because I did have good knowledge on what my boat could do, what
00:23:06
could and you know so I I was happy to go out there and and and get into those conditions. Um
00:23:13
>> exciting. >> But after after almost finishing and and not completing it. Um yeah, how's your
00:23:19
mental health after that? >> Great. It was the right call. Um you know, >> you were so close though.
00:23:27
>> Yeah. In a lot of ways, I I would think this is from someone that's never done
00:23:31
anything like this in their life. Um it'd be better to bail after 10 days, you know, rather than get that far, so
00:23:38
close to the finish. >> Well, yes and no. Um like I was I was super stoked with the first trip
00:23:44
because, you know, these things are about the journey and all that and yes, they are. I mean, I want to win, but um
00:23:50
they are about the journey and particularly in something like that, it was all about the journey and I
00:23:55
literally got everything. So, I got off the boat going, "No, I'm done." Um,
00:24:00
because I I got absolutely everything from the trip except the finish. And that the finish wasn't really the point
00:24:07
to be honest. Uh, I I genuinely did did uh have the experience. Um, and and that
00:24:15
was again, I enjoyed every single minute. I mean, that was the things that went wrong. That's kind of the dealing
00:24:21
with it's the cool part, you know, handling yourself under pressure and just life's wonderfully simple out
00:24:26
there. You know, it's just so pure. Something goes wrong, the decisions to me are very straightforward and very
00:24:31
easy. Um that's that's because it's experience-based. Um so what what
00:24:36
happened in the first trip? It it went pretty well. Uh and then uh the yeah, on the first trip it was
00:24:46
battery. So, uh, I wasn't planning to call into Lord How, but it was there as
00:24:50
a redundancy. And then one of the $6,000 batteries that I bought, lithium, um, dropped a cell. And one of the hard
00:25:01
calculations, again, maths, is this boat is not big enough to have enough solar to provide you with enough power for the
00:25:08
trip. So it was always like I went to um um the Brisbane University and their solar car team and um you know I went
00:25:19
through all the solar options with those guys and they were pretty much worldleaning
00:25:24
and you're always going to have a decaying um summary on your your solar. So it was only going to last so long.
00:25:33
And um when I dropped a I dropped it was a newish battery and it was supposed to
00:25:40
be you know the best >> and dropped a cell. It's just I didn't know it dropped a cell. I just knew it
00:25:46
wasn't working properly because I didn't have the um uh the options to figure it out. But um
00:25:53
so okay safety let's make the call. Let's go into Lord How. So I went into
00:25:59
Lord How um and then got that had to get another battery from Aussie. So that took a few days. Um then got back on the
00:26:06
road um which delayed us a bit but it also allowed me to restock the food supply. So left that with uh
00:26:16
you know with a B in the bonnet and said let's go. I'm I'm into this. And um yeah
00:26:21
it was really good. And then I was making great progress. Yes I got slapped back a bit but you have to expect that.
00:26:27
Uh, and and it was it was pretty cool and all my safety options were working really well, you know, eg when do you
00:26:34
get out and start paddling and when do you not. Um, and then I got up one morning and my rudders hanging off by
00:26:41
one pin. So there's three stainless pins. The bottom pin and the top pin had
00:26:46
been ripped off. I'm like, how does that happen? So they were six mill six mill pins. So pretty solid.
00:26:54
But the rudder was designed to break if I hit something solid. So if you go, you
00:27:00
know, everyone's like, "Oh, you'll hit a container." I never s saw a floating
00:27:02
container. Then you're highly unlikely to. But um if you run into something solid for some reason,
00:27:09
you don't want the rudder to pull the ass off your boat. >> So you design it so it doesn't pull the
00:27:14
ass off your boat. So I've got these three pins that are technically if you hit something hard, it should break. And
00:27:20
then you replace the pins and replace it with your spare rudder. and you know, three spears of everything.
00:27:26
>> Um, and I got up and this it had just been rotated off. So, it was it was a
00:27:32
big fish that flapped its gummies around and rotated it. So, probably a shark cuz
00:27:38
they explore, but I didn't feel it, which is unusual. Uh, which also means it was kind of soft. So, it was it was
00:27:45
just rotated off. So, uh, I'm in declining weather. So, I've got about a
00:27:50
three three and a half meter swell. Um, I've got one pin flapping around like
00:27:56
this with the rudder system on it. I've got to get in. I don't have a choice. I
00:28:01
have to get in. I can't wait. It's going to get worse. And if that pin pulls the
00:28:05
ass out of the boat, you know, I'm getting water in there. I'm not going to
00:28:09
sink completely cuz it's compartmentalized. But, you know, it's I'm going to sink partially. So, in I
00:28:15
got uh and this is getting quite far south. So, one of my main concerns is hypothermia. Um which I've had a little
00:28:24
bit of practice at dealing with. So, you know, I'm straight in there. I'm like,
00:28:27
right, I need a plan on how to get. So, I get in there, I do an assessment. Um then I get back in the boat, start
00:28:34
thinking, what tools do I need? You know, and this is all straightforward when you're sitting here doing this. But
00:28:39
when you're in a 3 m swell and you're in I don't know what it was probably
00:28:45
14 13 degree water uh and you're carrying no body fat and you've got to figure out a plan on how to fix this
00:28:54
rudder. So I've got spare pins and I get around the back and the pins have actually sheared off. So I can't just
00:29:01
pull it out and put a pin new pin in. Uh, and then I need the tools to to get the other pin out, which is bending and
00:29:09
throwing around. So, I've got to get the rudder strings off first. So, I've got,
00:29:12
you know, three or four tools. So, you're in a three and a half meter swell. You're in the boat with some
00:29:16
tools, and then you've got to be out of the boat with some tools. So, normally
00:29:19
I'm going to put a string around my wrist and make sure I can't drop the
00:29:23
tools. I don't have time. I have to get this bolt out before it really does some
00:29:30
damage. So, you know, um I've I've got this tool and I've got a backup, but
00:29:35
it's a really primitive option. So, you know, I'm out there in a three and a
00:29:40
half me swell boats going like this trying to get the the um the rudder off and uh succeeded. Uh and then I also,
00:29:49
you know, I've got the watch on. I'm measuring exactly how long it is before
00:29:53
I'm start starting to get symptoms of hypothermia. So my first trip was about
00:29:58
22 minutes in the water and I'm like, "Okay, no, I can't be that long." And
00:30:02
then you you're cold, so you've got to go and recover, but you've actually got
00:30:05
to get straight back in to fix the the immediate problem straight away. So calculate it. Probably got about 18
00:30:12
minutes. I certainly haven't got 22 minutes in me. So let's get back in and
00:30:16
and get that rudder off. So got that rudder off and then the whole process started. Right. Okay. The danger's gone.
00:30:22
Um now I've now I've got a check in the back compartment. And I've got to do all
00:30:27
this before dark and then I've got to radio it in and say, "Right, get the
00:30:32
experts on it and and let's let's see if we can uh get some mental power on this.
00:30:38
See if we can fix it." >> So the experts on um Yeah. So they can talk you through it.
00:30:44
>> Yeah. What What ideas have you got for the solutions for this? So I give it to
00:30:47
Nigel and then the the academic process starts and I mean Nigel's about the best
00:30:54
guy that you can have on this. I mean he was he he was police SARS um and he's he's very military in his
00:31:04
thinking. >> Um he was armed offenders uh leader in in for many years. So he's he's used to
00:31:12
dealing with life and death situations and I think that's important >> for for that role.
00:31:16
>> Yeah. You you you talk about this stuff like very um like matterofactly and
00:31:20
almost you know kind of blasze but it's like um you know 22 minutes in the water
00:31:25
then you go and warm up like you there's no hot shower or anything like there's
00:31:29
um and you say call in experts like no one's no one's coming out in the speedboat to get you. You know you were
00:31:35
so alone and isolated. >> Yeah 100%. And but that's what that's what you signed up for. If if you're not
00:31:41
prepared for that, then it's amazing how many people do sign up for it and are
00:31:45
not prepared for that. It's it it blows my mind. But >> well, if you're doing it if you're doing
00:31:49
it for um the cloud of the glory, like there's plenty of easier ways to do that, right?
00:31:53
>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. >> So So after um yeah 2014 where you're
00:31:58
almost finished and you don't um Yeah. What's what's the thought process or the
00:32:03
discussion that goes on before you decide to do it again in 2018? >> Yeah. Oh, so there's actually a lot more
00:32:08
to the rest of this story. Sorry. >> Um, so I'm without a rudder. Bottom line
00:32:11
is I'm without a rudder >> and there's no solution. We can't put a
00:32:15
rudder on the back. Um, because I've got nowhere to anchor it to. Um, so it's
00:32:21
like got no rudder. And and so okay, sleep on it. Uh, got enough food. I'm healthy. I'm safe. I'm fine. Um, so you
00:32:30
know, Nigel starts exploring the options of of getting a pickup. Any craft in the
00:32:34
area? you know, how long is it going to take? Um, and then I'm in the cabin. And in the
00:32:42
cabin is physically harder than out paddling. Like, you know, first couple hours is fine, but if you're in I would
00:32:49
rather be paddling for 10 hours than in the cabin for 10 hours. It's not a comfortable place to be. Um,
00:32:55
>> looks like a coffin. >> Yeah. And every time you're in there,
00:32:59
it's generally because the weather's [ __ ] Because the weather's not [ __ ]
00:33:01
you're out pedaling. So if you're in there, it's like being in a washing
00:33:04
machine. So you there was a lot of habits and routines that you got into. It's all about the detail. So if I'm
00:33:12
lying in there and I'm lying on a you know little sleep mat, foam sleep mat thing and if you're in a anything really
00:33:21
in a decent chop, the boat's going like this all the time. So, if you're lying
00:33:24
there for three hours and you're going like that and it's sitting your elbow's
00:33:30
sitting on rubber, you're going to get an abrasion there within three hours on
00:33:34
your elbow. >> So, you have to readjust your position. Um, so on the first trip, I had a a
00:33:40
shark skin top. Uh, I just cut the arms off and I put the shark skin arms on because it was too hot in the you don't
00:33:48
want to have a top on because it's actually quite warm inside. Uh, and but it was too hot. But I just cut them off.
00:33:53
So, I had to do that. But even if you do that, you know, there's going to be
00:33:56
something in your shoulder that rubs. And as soon as you get an abrasion, you can't fix it because you're wet just
00:34:03
about all the time. >> So, yeah, it's I didn't want to be in the cabin. So, I got out of the cabin
00:34:08
for a little bit exercise cuz I needed to just stretch out. And I'm like, I've
00:34:12
got no rudder. So, I started edging the boat, which is where you lean your hips and you put a couple of stronger paddles
00:34:18
in on this side. and I end up making about 7 or 8K. And then I went back in, slept on it
00:34:28
again cuz there's no rush. There's no hurry. Everything's safe. And so we
00:34:31
were, you know, that was our protocol really. We just there is no hurry. And I'm healthy. I'm good. I actually just
00:34:37
made some progress. And I said to Nigel, I'm I'm going to have a crack at it
00:34:40
tomorrow. And I made about 12ks the next day. And I said, just put a hold on that. and
00:34:49
uh let's give it a crack. So I'm paddling around in Tasine with no rudder, which is ridiculous.
00:34:55
And so I ended up teaching myself how to pedal again, which and that's probably
00:35:00
one of the most exciting things personally uh from from my point of view that that I learned to do. I learned how
00:35:07
to pedal again. So I made progress more and more each day. And then you know when the wind's blowing from 15, it
00:35:13
hardly ever blows 15. It's usually more. when it's blowing 15 knots from your
00:35:17
right, you're edging all day and really leaning on one arm um to just try and keep straight. And
00:35:25
then it gets to the point because as soon as you've got something in that quarter ahead of you, you've got nothing
00:35:31
that you can do about it. You have to be on the on the anchor. So, you can't
00:35:34
really pedal on those days. So, it was just an adjustment of the mass equation that I had originally on your vectors.
00:35:40
And I can do this. Look, I've still got food. Let's go. I'm just going to keep
00:35:44
paddling and I'll see if I can get closer because I'm kind of very close in
00:35:48
the middle. And so Nigel starts working on a whole lot of other contingencies. And I uh just kept paddling and kept
00:35:54
paddling and then I got to the point where I was one day and these are the days you dream about. There's 30 knots
00:36:01
behind me on a 5 m swell. And so I'm sitting there and I mean when the white
00:36:05
water comes across you put your arms up to hold the paddle out of it and the white water is so heavy it just presses
00:36:11
you into the kayak. And um I started surfing these waves and that's that's
00:36:18
kind of fun at the best of times. Um but I had no rudder and it's so really easy
00:36:23
to broach and I figured you're operating off your eyes and so I had to change my
00:36:28
sensory input. So I started closing my eyes a lot and just using my ears. So, it's cold. So, I just put my beanie up
00:36:34
and I started feeling the wind on my ears. And as soon as I felt the wind on my ear, I leaned and compensated. And
00:36:41
that meant I could surf. If I waited till my eyes saw what I needed to do, I I'd broke. I couldn't do it. So, I ended
00:36:48
up being able to surf 5 m waves with no rudder with, you know, a 400 kg boat. And um I've never had so much fun in my
00:36:57
life. It was so good. And I never got it wrong. >> How long did that last for? How do I
00:37:02
last? What the wind? >> Yeah. No, just just riding these waves in the middle of the tasine.
00:37:06
>> Oh, it only lasts a day or two at the most because the tailwind because of the
00:37:11
circular >> you only ever like you dream for those days, but honestly I felt robbed both
00:37:16
times because it would have been less than way less than 10% >> of the time. You know, those are the
00:37:22
ones you live for. I had one at the end of the the last trip >> and I made, you know, I made great
00:37:27
progress really close to the mountain. That was a whole lot of fun. But I had a rudder.
00:37:33
But yeah, learning a new skill in the middle of the tasine, just adapting your whole
00:37:39
>> way of doing things uh was was exciting. That was that was really great for me.
00:37:46
>> Yeah. Uh and then so yeah, anyway, I I was late because I wasn't making as much
00:37:50
progress as I should. Um so I was going to run out of food. I was always going to run. So Nigel ended up contacting uh
00:38:01
John Fenel who's a rescue pilot of fairly fairly uh well known in New Zealand and
00:38:10
they started dropping drums into Lake Talpo from a great height. So they figured it out and they they
00:38:17
figured out how far can we fly out and so they flew out and did a food drop. Um, the first food drop was as far as I
00:38:24
could fly basically. Uh, and I think they dropped two barrels. The first one did explode, so I lost that one, but um,
00:38:32
I was able to get it. But, you know, I'm sitting there in 25 knots of wind, which
00:38:35
is not a lot for the Tasine, but I've got no rudder and I've got to paddle
00:38:39
around in circles to get to this this little parachute thing. Uh, and then then it's like Christmas. You're getting
00:38:45
into this barrel and there's just all kinds of food and it's great. And you
00:38:49
know, like there's um Nigel Nigel's, this is the level of detail that we go
00:38:55
to. So Nigel realized there's going to be pressure on impact. So um he buys a
00:39:01
peanut slab, he pin pricks the wrapper, deflates it, and then tapes it because the pressure
00:39:10
of the impact would explode the wrapper and explode all the food. So he he literally had done that. He he'd thought
00:39:17
about it and because of the practice he he'd pin prick the wrapper, got all the
00:39:21
air out of it and then put a bit of electrical tape on it. >> Wow. >> What he hadn't thought about was that my
00:39:25
skin was so soft that when I went to peel the electrical tape, it would cut me, >> right?
00:39:32
>> Yeah. Like it could literally go through my fingernails, >> so yeah, the the level
00:39:38
>> Did you have a knife or a blade or whatever? I did. I did. And I So, I had
00:39:41
to open the peanut slab, but like, you know, I'm I'm starving literally and
00:39:46
these peanut slabs and stuff turn up and I'm like, and I want to get into this
00:39:50
peanut slab. I don't want, you know, I don't want to wait. So, then I I figured
00:39:55
out I had to get my, you know, knife out and and actually open it up with a knife.
00:40:00
>> So, yeah, the the level of detail on skin integrity is probably the hardest
00:40:03
thing on this whole trip. So yeah, I I got in there and then I got to 70ks off and then I was running out
00:40:12
of power. I was running out of everything and I ended up in a six-day blocking storm um which the media got a
00:40:22
hold of. It was taking roofs off in Oakuckland and but it was it was just kind of normal to me. But I couldn't
00:40:28
make progress. So, I was just on anchor for six days in a blocking storm. And then it got to the point it's like, hey,
00:40:35
I can't produce any more power. Um, I'm I'm getting low on food, but I probably
00:40:40
can survive another couple days, but I'm getting low on power. If someone comes
00:40:44
out here, they're not going to see me. I'm done. Um, and I was only 70ks off.
00:40:49
And there are there are big big craft out there. Um, and if I go somewhere, I'm go I can't recharge my satphone for
00:40:57
tomorrow. I can't talk to you. I'm out of power. The only thing I can let you
00:41:02
know about is the E-B. >> Uh which is what you pull when you're in a in a panic.
00:41:08
>> So that's a calculation. No, that's too far. We can do something about it. We
00:41:13
did something about it. And I never had any issue with any of that decision. That would to me that was just
00:41:18
straightforward. I'd do it again 100 times out of 100. >> Like common sense.
00:41:22
>> No calculation. Safety is a calculation. It's like, okay, you know, if if there's
00:41:27
a problem that you haven't foreseen, like Lord How, you know, I didn't have
00:41:32
to stop at Lord How at all. I could have just kept going because I can manually pump water. I could have survived. Um,
00:41:39
but I, you know, I wanted to do it non-stop, but that's a rule you've placed on yourself. And that's something
00:41:45
I learned from Andrew. Don't place rules on yourself. >> Safety is calculated based on what you
00:41:49
need to do and what is available. So, at the end, the risk profile went up. The danger was high. I was going to run out
00:41:56
of comms, which is the biggest danger. I couldn't tell them whether I'm in the
00:42:01
water or not. Um, so all I could do is pull my earb. And it's like, okay, no,
00:42:06
we can do something about that. So, we will. >> It's a calculation. It's It's got
00:42:10
nothing to do with how you feel or where you are or what you're trying to achieve.
00:42:14
>> It's just a calculation. >> Yeah. By the way, Lord, how that you've
00:42:19
mentioned a few times. So that's um it's an island in Australia waters. I think
00:42:22
if you fly there from Sydney it's like a couple of hours flight, right? >> Yeah. It's um 600ks off off Port McQuary
00:42:28
>> probably. So um yeah, how like how are we not how are we not depressed after 2014
00:42:35
after going through all that and making it so close? >> I I got the journey. The journey was
00:42:40
fantastic, you know. Well, you know, if you go if you go for a marathon and then
00:42:45
absolutely blow a hammy at at um 41ks, >> you did all that training, you know, you
00:42:52
you got from here and you got up to there. Sure, you'd probably have another
00:42:55
crack at a marathon. It's more accessible. >> Uh this is less accessible, but um
00:43:00
>> but you don't get the finishing medal. >> No, you don't get the finishing medal,
00:43:03
but it was never about that. And there was never going to be one. >> It's not that kind of project, you know.
00:43:08
Um, but again, I wouldn't change that safety part of the part of the journey
00:43:14
was putting together a safety protocol that was effective. >> Um, and it was effective and um, and you
00:43:20
know, we're both pretty proud of how we operate like that. Um, and that's what
00:43:25
does make it safe. That's why Sarah has confidence in what we're doing is
00:43:29
because, >> you know, we treat it like a military operation and that's that's the best way
00:43:34
to go about it. Um, >> yes. So, so after 2014, it's another four years before you have the the
00:43:39
successful attempt. >> Um, >> you you've explained the safety stuff
00:43:43
really well. Um, was it hard getting Sarah over the line to do it again though, just in terms of like the um
00:43:49
>> I don't know. You're putting your lives on hold in a way, aren't you? Like
00:43:52
financially as a couple or a family, you can't progress forward. >> And that's that's probably the main main
00:43:57
thing. So, that's when we said because we thought we'll do this. we we'll take
00:44:01
the box and then we we might it's a good time to go overseas and just have a bit
00:44:05
of a you know live overseas for a bit. We were thinking maybe Europe. Um but then it was probably six months
00:44:13
passed and and there was like financially there's no way we want to do this again. This is just crazy. Um, and
00:44:20
then uh I came across a couple of people who were interested in chipping in and they were like, "Oh, why don't you do
00:44:27
and I'm like, actually, I really do want to do it." You know, it's like playing
00:44:31
the game of golf, you know? Oh, I can do it better than that. But I had all this
00:44:35
information. I had this massive body of information and I'm like, I really want
00:44:40
to do it now. So, it's like doing your first Iron Man. You don't know what
00:44:43
you're in for, but once you've done one, it's like, oh yeah, I can do way better
00:44:46
than that. M >> um you know your just your um comprehension of what the capacity is
00:44:54
for you to go better and this is kind of more exciting than Iron Man because the
00:44:58
amount of detail in it was was like I say even the safety plan wasn't boring.
00:45:01
It was it was I think reasonably world leading and exciting to do and exciting to put together and get it right. And
00:45:09
I'm like, okay. So, for example, uh we now don't have three P we have three
00:45:14
pins in the back of the boat, but we also have three new holes drilled, you know. So, if it snaps off again, you've
00:45:21
got other holes you can use. Um so, just those those learnings uh I wanted to put
00:45:27
them in and uh we so we had a little bit little bit of momentum. Don't get me
00:45:31
wrong, it's not like someone said, "Oh, you can >> it was certainly going to be a" and so
00:45:35
we thought, "Right, let's kill the birds. let's go and spend our oe time in
00:45:39
Aussie which was great moved to coughs um not necessarily cuz we were planning to
00:45:46
start from coughs for the paddle we moved to coughs because I looked at a map and said right okay we love the salt
00:45:52
water because we come from Rooua which is paradise but there's no salt water so
00:45:56
we've got salt water we got the waves we got what we want but I need the mountains as well because I want to be
00:46:01
able to ride my bike so where do the mountains get close to the water coughs so um you know you and go for a swim and
00:46:08
jump on your mountain bike and go straight up the hills. It's like that's
00:46:10
my idea of paradise. Um so that's kind of kind of why we went there and um and
00:46:18
also met some lovely people that were keen and helpful and um you know made some great friends. So we had a paddle
00:46:25
aside, we had an amazing time in coughs, which was what we went there for. >> And you know, the young fell got to
00:46:31
experience some, >> you know, but a slightly different culture. >> Um, and but you know, in terms of the
00:46:38
boat and the the paddle, it was all it was all there and and a lot handier. >> Yeah.
00:46:44
>> So yeah. So when you take off in 2018 from Coughs, so um your wife Sarah is
00:46:48
there, your son Zach who's like eight at the time. >> Yep. Um yeah, eight's a good age. Like um they
00:46:55
you kids can understand what's going on. So how do you guys communicate it to him
00:46:59
what you're doing? Like dad's just going for a paddle. He'll see you in a couple
00:47:02
of months or >> Yeah. Well, he kind of grew up with that because you know, dad's just going for a
00:47:06
ride. See you 5 hours later, you know. Um so it wasn't really much out of uh
00:47:13
out of the realms. And he's I mean he's a product of the lifestyle as well in that we went to coughs. So
00:47:21
I've got a I don't know three four year old when we go to coughs and he's here's
00:47:27
your water safety thing. So I walk out to the beach holding his hand and there's a you know half meter swell
00:47:34
coming in and I let let his hand go and I let him get wiped out. You're standing
00:47:38
there to pick him up when you need to but you let him get hit by the wave. So cuz he's going to be spending his life
00:47:43
in the wave, you know, he's got to develop that respect for it. And so you just let him get bold and and they've
00:47:50
got to I know I have taught his natural affinity to you know be able to hold his
00:47:54
breath and he he'd learned to swim through me. So, um, you know, just here's the wave, belt. Boof. And, you
00:48:02
know, at at age eight, we were we were I was body surfing 3 m swells with him on
00:48:08
my back, you know, and I had 100% confidence he could get wiped out by a 3 m wave and pop up and be happy on the
00:48:15
other side. So, yeah, it was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary for him, you
00:48:19
know. He's like, "Oh, it's the sea. That's that's it's what we do."
00:48:23
So, he was he was um communicated the message that there was absolutely no doubt that dad was going to make it at
00:48:28
the other end. >> Yeah, it's it's a big thing and there's some risk, but you can't talk to an
00:48:33
8-year-old about risk. >> You can't even talk to a 15-year-old about risk. If
00:48:37
>> if you if the 2018 attempt wasn't successful, would you have gone again?
00:48:42
>> Uh, highly unlikely. >> Yeah, they would. >> Just just financially.
00:48:46
>> Simple as that. Like, I really did enjoy every minute. I enjoyed the big stuff.
00:48:52
That's what I signed up for. Um, and you know, the the the polarization of of the
00:48:59
activity out there, like very few, probably two nights, maybe three in both trips. You couldn't tell um the water
00:49:10
from the sky. It was just that flat and that, you know, there were stars everywhere. And then you start paddling
00:49:17
and there's phosphoresence in the water. is just stunning. And then 48 hours
00:49:22
later, you're in a 5 m swell with a 6-second interval that's beating the
00:49:27
absolute crap out of you. It's just it's just beautifully polar. >> You were talking about this um this um
00:49:34
crunchy stuff with a real sort of glint in your eye, eh? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:49:38
>> You love it. Okay. Um Yeah. So, so what about the training before you get even
00:49:43
even in the water? Because you're paddling for say up to 16 hours a day, right?
00:49:47
>> Yep. So what does training look like both physically and mentally? >> Oh well that's a really good question
00:49:54
because I you know especially when it comes to endurance we we quite often train our psychology
00:50:00
every time you take a step running or you take a take a pedal biking you are training your mind it's part of the same
00:50:08
package and you should train whatever you're trying to train for. So mentally
00:50:14
um there's the safety side and that's academic. Um but physically I've got a you know
00:50:21
I've got a background and stuff. Um and it's a it's a varied background.
00:50:26
It's it's not a or some people might call it an elite background, but it's
00:50:32
kind of what I've did wrong that taught me more than what I did right. For example, I I was busy coaching one
00:50:38
summer and I said, "Right, I'm going to do coast to coast." So I did coast to
00:50:42
coast. My biggest week of training was five hours. >> So um >> that's shocking by the way. That is
00:50:51
terrible. >> That is that's yeah that that is a shocking. So you're going into I don't
00:50:54
know 14 hour race of 5 hour week under your belt. So I was just working and and I went into that and I said right I'm
00:51:01
well I had no other default setting. I'm a racer. I'm just and that challenge
00:51:07
appealed to me as much as trying to train properly and win the race. And so I'm like, "Right, here's me. Here's my
00:51:14
body. What can I get out of my body today to get 100% performance? Something's going to go wrong. I'm going
00:51:23
to pull something, strain something. I'm going to have to adjust. You know, I'm
00:51:27
going to have to tape my ankles because they're not as trained and as strong as
00:51:31
they should be." and you know, so that's just the way I I rolled and I you know,
00:51:35
I still got I don't know, top 20. So I was just I was just I was just wired like that. I didn't need the others to
00:51:44
make me go fast. I could have gone and done it on a different day and gone just as hard. That's just how I was wired.
00:51:51
And I was just as happy with doing that as I was with training properly and trying to go top five, you know. Um
00:51:59
and and that's what taught me a lot of things, you know, how to change muscle
00:52:05
groups and and look after one muscle group and then because that happens every day when you're on the smash for
00:52:11
16 hours, sort of five or six days in a row, something's you're all you're
00:52:15
straining things every day. And so you've got to figure out what pressure you can apply and what the limit is and
00:52:22
what's pain and what's injury. And you've got to have a very good clear
00:52:27
understanding of what what that is. >> Um yeah, >> you you must have been match fit though,
00:52:33
like I um as in did you do some 16-hour days or you you did some overnights on the on the boat?
00:52:41
>> Yep. So with if you're trading for Iron Man, your physical pattern is the
00:52:48
primary objective of your plan. So, you know, I've got to get up to a certain
00:52:52
amount of hours at a certain amount of intensity, and that's the primary objective of your training schedule. So,
00:52:59
my primary objective was it was probably third on the scale. So, if I went out for a 24-hour paddle,
00:53:08
um my main objective would be, okay, I've got a one one and a half meter swell today. Can I get inside the cabin?
00:53:17
Can I sit on my legs and knees and heels for three hours while I take the water maker apart and put it back together?
00:53:26
That's more important than the 24 hours of paddling. So all of my training was
00:53:32
course specific. So it's not nec Yes, I paddled for 24 hours, but I spent 3 hours inside the cabin. That's
00:53:38
physically harder because I don't know, especially at this age. Have you tried
00:53:41
to sit on your ankles lately? How long have you sit on your ankles for? So, I literally had to train myself to do
00:53:48
that. So, every time I'm watching TV, I'm sitting on my ankles and stretching
00:53:52
them out so I can get them to the point. I mean, that boat's not very wide. I
00:53:57
could literally turn around. So, training is worst case. Get it wrong, get it wrong, get it wrong, bust
00:54:03
everything, repair it, and go again. So, training's objective was not the physical 24 hours because like I say, I
00:54:10
can kind of handle that. Um, I've just got to know when to back off and when
00:54:14
when not to. Uh, yes, I have to have a training volume. So, >> but I suppose when you when you're out
00:54:20
in the water for that long, you're going to get you're going to get match fit as
00:54:22
you go. >> Yeah. But most the the majority of my training was in a K1 on a river dead
00:54:27
flat. >> And it basically was dictated by the weather. Every time it started getting
00:54:32
shitty, that's when I went out on the on the sea. So, okay, you know, learning
00:54:36
how to do things like replace your water maker while you're in a swell. Um, pull
00:54:41
it apart, do it. Um, you know, getting in and out of the boat. So, what's what
00:54:46
how do how do we test this boat for real structure? You go out in the surf. Okay,
00:54:51
it's a 3 m swell today, right? Go out in the surf line where it's breaking.
00:54:55
Anchor there. Get in the boat. Then figure out when it's safe to get in, when it's safe to get out, and how much
00:55:00
of a pounding you can actually handle doing that. So then you know exactly when you should be going out of the boat
00:55:05
and when you shouldn't be. It's not go out and find out when you're on the
00:55:08
Tasman. It's, you know, uh what's his name? Chris the sailor, the round the
00:55:13
world sailor. Old school. Hey, I mean that was his motto for Dixon. >> Dixon. That's it.
00:55:18
>> Uh that was his motto. You know, go out, break the boat, sail it hard, and then
00:55:23
fix it better. Go and break it again. Fix it. And then you're then you're
00:55:28
ready to go. I I love that so much because we you know you hear the saying um failure is a stepping stone to
00:55:34
success but this is an example of that in like real life terms high risk terms as well.
00:55:39
>> Yeah. Exactly. And then like if you've gone out there and you know exactly what
00:55:42
your threshold is for getting in and out of the boat. You don't know. You don't
00:55:46
know how fast you can corner on a bike until you've actually come off. then you
00:55:49
know then you know what your limit is and you know exactly where it is and you know
00:55:54
whether you're in within 10% of it or 20% of it when you're cornering. So it's
00:55:59
it's exactly like that with within the boat. You've got to find ways and if
00:56:04
you've got 3 weeks of fairly flat water, you can't do it. >> You got to wait.
00:56:09
>> So So when you're out there on the Tasine, um average 24-hour cycle, what
00:56:13
did that look like? Was there such a thing as an average 24-hour cycle? So, there's a whole lot of things that
00:56:19
come into a 24-hour cycle. So, basically, if you can paddle, you do paddle uh at least 16 hours a day. That
00:56:25
was the objective. Um, but in order to do that, you've got to have a few things. First one, safety. Is it safe to
00:56:32
get into the boat or out of the boat? I say, okay, I've got I've got a 3 m swell
00:56:36
at 15 seconds, which is quite a long interval. So, there's only there's a
00:56:41
little bit of white water around that's increasing over the next 24 hours. I
00:56:45
know that it's specifically it's increasing overnight. Um, so am I going to get into the boat or am
00:56:54
I going to the dangerous part I identified the dangerous part which is getting from the cockpit to the uh cabin
00:57:01
and vice versa because >> you can't be attached. >> Okay. So you're untethered for that
00:57:07
short moment. >> For the short moment you're untethered. So that is the least safe process of the
00:57:11
of the whole thing. So you have to get that right. It's not a It's not like
00:57:16
Oops, got it wrong today. >> Yeah. Yeah. But when when you get fatigued, it's so easy to make mistakes.
00:57:21
E, and slip up. >> And that's just it. And that's a mental state of mind. I mean, you train your
00:57:25
brain to be able to do that. So, like I used to run my swimmers to the top of a hill, swimmers to the top of a hill, get
00:57:30
their heart rate, check it, and say, "Right, oh, here's a here's an algebraic
00:57:35
equation. Who's who's going to win?" You know, it's it's just something you
00:57:39
practice under pressure. It's something you practice under pressure if you you
00:57:41
go in the military at the SAS end. It's it's a trainable concept. Every concept
00:57:47
is trainable, especially when it's the gray matter. So, you know, uh uh claustrophobia. Most people jump in
00:57:56
my boat don't last a minute in there just sitting there. Um let alone in a washing machine. So, and
00:58:05
I got comfortable with that pretty quickly. I mean, I'm not particularly claustrophobic, but I wasn't also
00:58:10
particularly comfortable. So, uh, I went out there and, uh, two things I did. First thing I did
00:58:18
when I started sleeping, I was getting used to being seasick as well. So, I stuck my head up the pointy end of the
00:58:23
boat. So, you got you got the air and it's also the part of the boat that moves the most. So, I was just working
00:58:29
on getting used to being seasick. So, uh, anchored the boat and slept slept there. And then um also the
00:58:36
claustrophobia part. So I now need if my head's up here. Think about that boat.
00:58:42
If my head's at the pointy end, how do I turn around? Boat's about this wide. So I have to get
00:58:49
flexible enough to be able to pull my knees and legs up to rotate round to get my head back up the other end inside the
00:58:56
boat. Uh worst case, if it's on its side, it's never going to be upside down
00:59:00
because of the nature of the build. All right. What's the worst case now? What
00:59:04
if the doors open? So that's what I did. I I got uh my head up the pointy end. I
00:59:09
got Sarah in there and it's one of the reasons what I got Sarah was to, you know, make her a little more
00:59:14
comfortable. And I said, "Right, I push the boat down and flood the boat while I
00:59:19
my head's up the other end and I've got to get out." So, you know, worst case
00:59:24
scenario, think of it, practice it, do it, and then way we go. So, I'd done all
00:59:30
of that as well. That little cabin that must have stunk >> apparently. So apparently I got cuz
00:59:37
that's the first thing Zach said when he got I got off the boat. It was on TV.
00:59:41
You stink dad. >> Um I'm like >> quite acclimatized. >> Um what was it what was the most
00:59:49
frightening moment in that 2018 crossing? What was there any like it seems like you were very very matter of
00:59:55
fact and compartmentalized but >> I mean again the whole process if you're
01:00:01
frightened go back do some more homework you haven't been there if you're frightened
01:00:06
you haven't been there you haven't done your homework you haven't been in rough
01:00:09
enough conditions you know go get some practice and then turn up so you're not
01:00:14
frightened so um you know u Liam Lawson doesn't drive frightened there's
01:00:20
probably a period where he's going into a war going, "Oh shit." But he also
01:00:23
knows he's got the safety gear around him to to probably take the hit. >> Um, and it's exactly the same. If you're
01:00:30
frightened, again, right from the the McCauley thing, it's not how you should
01:00:36
be out there. >> And if you're frightened, you're liable to make a poor decision. So, I really
01:00:41
tried to make sure that didn't happen. >> So, there there was nothing that
01:00:44
happened in in that 61 days. Wow. >> Yeah. >> Wow. That is uh >> well it's the same for sharks. Um you
01:00:52
know people are like oh shark shark that is such a psychological and normal person thing to do. What
01:01:00
what's the danger from sharks? It's where they live. So um training a um
01:01:05
cookst straight swimmer. Don't like sharks. Fear of sharks. Fine. All right.
01:01:09
Let's go to Kelly Tons or let's let's go and get in with them. All right. then
01:01:14
let's get in the open water with them and then you know find a way go find a
01:01:18
shark and you know make friends. Um you know get used to being in the environment. If you're not used to being
01:01:25
environment and you're going to freak out then don't try and swim the cook
01:01:28
straight >> you know. So it's it's all trainable stuff. It's it's gray matter.
01:01:33
>> Um another guy uh managed to do it in 2023. Richard Barnes. Um do you know
01:01:38
him? Did he speak to you? Did he contact you? What when you get a phone call like
01:01:43
that? What do you What do you say? >> What do I say? Um, well, I try and go through a lot of the
01:01:52
stuff we just went through. Um, you know, >> but there's Yeah, just for example, his boat was too big
01:02:01
in that he did not have much control over his vectors. His boat was just too big and his power was not enough for the
01:02:11
vessel that he had. I mean, he ended up several hundred ks south of New Zealand about to travel past, which is how the
01:02:20
wind works down there. And he got two weeks, nearly two weeks straight of a suddly that blew him back to New
01:02:29
Zealand. In my books, that's incredibly lucky because that weather doesn't
01:02:35
happen that often down there. And the weather he got on the his crossing was really quite good for the Tasman. It was
01:02:43
it was almost ideal. >> Um but he wasn't able to control his vectors because he had the wrong boat
01:02:48
versus the wrong power >> number. But he did he did talk to me. What he took on board, I'm not sure. Um
01:02:56
I actually had a hand in getting him off the water in a previous trip. >> Um
01:03:04
yeah, the less said about that the better. Yeah. Yeah. Does it frustrate you when people do it and they're not as
01:03:10
um adequately prepared as what you were? >> Well, I I I don't blame them for not not
01:03:16
being prepared as as I was. And you know, I try not to apply my, you know, my standards to anybody else. I'm no
01:03:26
uh I'm no authority in in some sense. Um but the basics, the the stuff that I can
01:03:32
explain to you that you can understand straight away, that frustrates me. >> Yeah. what you're saying it makes makes
01:03:37
perfect sense. >> Yeah. >> Makes I still wouldn't want to do it.
01:03:40
>> No. And nor should you. >> But it makes a lot of sense. And there's
01:03:43
a lot of stuff that you've said that you can apply to um just about anything
01:03:47
really. >> Absolutely. Well, like I say, this all came from my coaching people to do
01:03:50
stuff. >> Yeah. >> You know, so um I had swim squads for for many years and and it's
01:03:57
>> there's not not a lot more honest than a black line in the pool. >> Yeah.
01:04:01
>> You know, and you've got you got all of the same concepts. you don't have, you
01:04:05
know, you don't have the gear arguably, but uh yeah, it's it's all fairly
01:04:11
manageable stuff. All the information is out there. Um but you it's it's up to
01:04:16
you to organize it and prioritize it. >> There was a period for you out there
01:04:20
where um the storm was so bad that you were locked in that um little cabin, which we've described as like a coffin
01:04:26
for six days. Um >> Yeah. How was your mental health then? >> Okay. Uh, not good. Good and not good.
01:04:38
Cuz you know how on the first trip Sarah's mom died? >> Um, Sarah wasn't that close to her dad.
01:04:45
They'd split up. But still, you know, they got on a right. >> And your dad's dead, right?
01:04:51
>> Yeah. >> Regardless of the >> Yeah. >> closess. >> Can you guess what happened while I was
01:04:56
going backwards in the middle of the tasine? >> You can. >> Yeah, >> you can. Yeah.
01:05:05
>> So, you've got um you got a satellite phone. >> Yeah. >> Why Why does she Why does she tell you?
01:05:12
>> Um >> did she consider not? >> That's the kind of relation she did
01:05:14
consider not. And she actually didn't for a while. She knows I can cope with
01:05:18
it. And she als That's the kind of relationship we have. You know, I'd rather she did.
01:05:22
>> I I don't want her to look after me. I just want us to be open, >> honest. And that's
01:05:29
>> Yeah. Not even that. Just Just keep it direct. keep it simple. Um, you know,
01:05:34
let me deal with my I mean, uh, I was upset about the mom cuz I knew she had that kind of relationship and and I
01:05:43
wasn't there emotionally for her. Dad was less of an emotional problem. But,
01:05:48
you know, just she's got to organize a dad's funeral. Well, I'm not there, you know. Um,
01:05:58
that's helpless. >> That is utterly helpless. So I, you know, I'm so good at my job out
01:06:06
there. She knows that's not going to make me unsafe. And to be honest, that's a big call cuz,
01:06:13
you know, you, like I say, you've got to be. But having said that, people have
01:06:17
survived in being emotionally unstable. But you're you're increasing your risk
01:06:22
factor a bit there. >> Yes. So yeah. So what's going through your head? Like what's your thought
01:06:29
process at that time? So you're six days. >> Yeah. >> In this tiny tiny little cabin.
01:06:33
>> Yeah. Well, >> nothing you can do. Just total help helplessness. >> Actually, I've had some experience here,
01:06:43
>> you know. >> Yeah. >> Uh oh. All right. So, that's a a hard
01:06:50
thing to take. One of my logistical fauxars was down the bottom of my list in terms of
01:06:58
importance was music. Because people say, "What did you do?" You know, "Did
01:07:00
you listen to music?" I'm like, "I'm never bored there. You're always doing
01:07:05
something. You're always making calculations, uh, regoing over your safety. You're
01:07:10
constantly calculating vectors in wind." So, I'm never chilling. There's no point
01:07:15
where you're chilling. So, down the bottom of the list is the iPod. Um, chucked it in. Yeah. Oh, [ __ ] I've got
01:07:21
my B iPod. What's on there? A little bit of Italian language. Okay. And um and on there is uh oh god it'll come to
01:07:32
me in a minute. Even essence >> oh yeah emo an emo band from the early 2000s.
01:07:40
>> Suicidal emo band. This is the only music I've and and you you know I'm lying there going nah nah.
01:07:51
I'm just like you know what? Why not throw another challenge in? I'm gonna listen.
01:07:59
What have I got? >> Just to make it more unbearable. >> There was a couple of days days there
01:08:03
just on repeat eancence. I'm like, "Yeah, I can go." >> Yeah. Cuz you're in there day and night
01:08:10
for for six days. Um I mean the the dream would be to sleep through it and just wake up when the storm's finished.
01:08:16
It's not it's not a reality. But it is I mean you get very good at meditating
01:08:21
>> very good because you you've got to otherwise you come out of the cabin just
01:08:26
absolutely naked >> just rooted you just >> um it's oh you know and you asked about the blue
01:08:35
plate before um >> oh yeah this is uh this is before we started recording but you were yeah
01:08:41
you're defecating on a blue plate >> yes yeah it was just a dessert bowl just
01:08:46
a blue plastic dessert a because of the size. So there's an art form I'll never probably use in anywhere
01:08:53
else else in life. But uh I mean when you're inside the cabin trying to do that, man, that's a skill. That is a
01:09:01
really dynamic skill. >> So you just have to like hoist your hips >> off the mat and
01:09:07
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the same way you um adapt to the the motion of the ocean, uh
01:09:13
you know, when you're standing, I'm not obviously standing, but you get a very
01:09:17
very good feel even when you can't see the waves, you can feel um what's
01:09:21
happening and what's coming and what's what's going on. And so, you have to
01:09:26
>> choose the moment. >> Choose the moment and be dynamic with your arms and legs while you're doing
01:09:32
it. And you've got to get it right because getting it wrong is not an option. And and and when you're when
01:09:37
you're doing um these these bell movements and you're locked in the cabin
01:09:40
for six days, are you able to get rid of it or do you have to like zip lock put in a Ziploc bag or something or what are
01:09:46
you doing? >> No, no, you can get rid of it. >> Oh yeah. Okay. >> Um but you know, no toilet paper.
01:09:51
>> Yeah. >> You got to rinse and rinse and and wash. Um, yeah. I mean, I've got all
01:10:00
keeping things relatively antibacterial is one of the biggest challenges of of the whole thing. But yeah, there's
01:10:07
there's all sorts of bits and pieces, but yeah, basically, uh, it's all it's
01:10:11
all free to air >> and and in that tiny little cabin, um, you mentioned the iPod just before. Any
01:10:17
other home comforts? Like, is there is there like a like a handwritten note from your son on the wall or any any
01:10:23
photos or anything? Uh, no, no, >> no. Um, they we had a a bit of a food party where we were vacuum packing some
01:10:34
of the some of the food packages we put together. So we put together basically uh yeah it was it was freeze-dried fruit
01:10:42
back country and uh we I had four meals a day at least four but sometimes five meals a day of uh rolled oats and those
01:10:51
were split into protein type mixes with you know a whole bunch of seeds and all sorts of
01:11:00
different types of stuff in it and then carbohydrate type mixes and then um and And that was also split with insure as
01:11:08
well. And so I had these bags where I could just open them, pour some water in, leave it for half an hour, and then
01:11:15
just spoon it out. Cuz what you don't think about is there's hardly ever
01:11:19
tailwind. >> If you're paddling into even 10 knots, and you stop paddling for 10 strokes,
01:11:26
you're going that way. It now takes you 20 strokes to get back around and get
01:11:31
pointed forward again. So when you eat, you can't just sit there and chow down a
01:11:35
whole pack. It's most of the time it's couple of spoonfuls, keep paddling,
01:11:39
couple of spoonfuls, keep paddling. Otherwise, you're going to get your energy is just going to go backwards
01:11:43
because you get pointed the other way. >> And to to reorientate the boat again is
01:11:47
going to be too hard. Let alone if there's an offset side wind, that's even
01:11:50
harder. >> My god, you really have to keep grinding, eh? >> Yeah. >> So So what's it like after six days in
01:11:56
that in that locked in that cabin where there's a storm outside to find out just
01:11:59
how far you've been pushed back? >> Um, well that's the thing. First couple
01:12:03
of days you've got the GPS, got the GPS, got the GPS, turn it off. Turn it off.
01:12:09
>> Just too depressing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can't have that negative
01:12:13
input otherwise because if you do get depressed, for example, if you, you know, in food, this is again brain
01:12:19
training. Um, you know, what about food? What do you like? It's got nothing to do
01:12:23
with whatever you got to train your brain to ignore taste and just eat when you got to eat because sometimes, you
01:12:29
know, feeling seasick, you got to eat. So, um, you know, adjusting how you look at food is is really important
01:12:36
psychologically because if you get a craving out there, that craving can start overalling everything to the point
01:12:42
where you're making poor decisions. It's like, oh, I've got this craving for a
01:12:45
pie. Oh, I don't want to eat my my musli. You know what I mean? Uh, which is just standard kids stuff dayto-day
01:12:52
means nothing. But out there it really can have an accumulative effect >> and and be you know reasonably
01:12:59
consequent con consequential. >> So >> did you how did you develop that skill
01:13:04
to like when negative thoughts thoughts are creeping in to just you know block them out and get back on
01:13:09
>> well a lot of that's from um coaching people to do things and and my own you
01:13:15
know athletic career. I mean you've got to stay positive right? any performance
01:13:19
is about um you know the basic mental tools of performance which is if you've got that
01:13:26
negative thought in there then that actually affects your power. >> Um if it's 100 meters if you're doing a
01:13:34
100 meter sprint race on the track, you know, you get one thing wrong and you're
01:13:40
not going as fast as as you want to go. you know, um even if it's just two steps
01:13:45
that aren't as powerful as they should be, that turns out to be half second at
01:13:49
the end of the race or or splits depending on who you are and how fast you're going.
01:13:53
>> Um same with Iron Man. Oh, you know, oh, I'm tired. As soon as you think you're
01:13:59
tired, you are. >> End of story. >> Uh as soon as you think you're tired,
01:14:02
you've lost. You've lost maximum performance level. >> You can't do it. So, as soon as that
01:14:07
thought enters your head, you're in trouble. So, it's it's basic sports
01:14:10
psychology. But like I said, I wanted to take it right. So there's a massive
01:14:14
toolbox on, you know, uh, everybody knows what a little bit of uh, meditation does for you, but like I say,
01:14:20
when you've got to do it under pressure for six days >> in order to survive and make sure that
01:14:25
your body's in the best condition, so when you get out, you can actually paddle, let alone your mind. Um, yeah,
01:14:31
you're going backwards fast. And you've got to, so the one thing I learned in
01:14:35
the first trip was I'm going to go backwards. I need to modify my expectations.
01:14:40
I'm looking at the from all the weather I've looked at the most I'm probably
01:14:44
going to go I didn't make the call but I'm maybe four days backwards. It's like I'm going backwards for five
01:14:50
days. You're starting to lose the plot in the fifth day. It's not cuz it's any
01:14:54
difference. It's because you had expectations. >> You have to be able to drop those
01:14:59
expectations. >> One thing to say it, another thing to be able to do it. >> Yeah.
01:15:04
>> So you is and so I learned that from the first trip. So when I went into the the
01:15:08
long six days at the in the second trip, I'm like, "No, I haven't got
01:15:12
expectations. Take two weeks. Whatever you got to take, you got to take and then I'll just jump back on the horse."
01:15:17
You know, it's >> uh you practiced, it's experienced. >> You're tough as nails, aren't you?
01:15:24
>> Um >> yeah, I don't look at it as tough, but yes. Yeah, I agree in that. Um, you
01:15:29
know, >> because I mean the the stuff that you're saying it makes perfect sense, but it is
01:15:33
um easy to say it, but it's a lot harder to actually implement it in real life
01:15:37
terms. >> Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. There's Yeah, there's I'm I'm tough at that kind of
01:15:42
thing because I've had some practice, had some experience. I mean, you put me
01:15:44
in a boxing ring, I'm not so tough. >> You put You put a boxer in my boat,
01:15:50
they're not so tough. >> Yeah. Well, I think it was Muhammad Ali that or Mike Tyson that originally said,
01:15:55
"Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face." >> Exactly.
01:15:58
>> Yeah. Um what about fun things that you saw out there like um were there any
01:16:02
like just crazy wild sunrises or sunsets? >> Oh yeah. Well, like I said the the stars
01:16:07
before that was the stars and the um fluoresence was probably the the most visually striking one that's imprinted
01:16:15
in my brain. Sunsets. Yeah. Oh, you see them every every morning. You're up at
01:16:19
sunset. So or before sunset. So you get to see you're living outside which is
01:16:24
just another way of life which is really refreshing. I mean so one of the things
01:16:30
I tried to do was deprogram. So I started withdrawing from a lot of conversations um and just getting used
01:16:38
to my own company a bit more and just psychologically you know uh appreciating food less for a few weeks. Um and and
01:16:48
and then I'm going through going in at the other end for the last couple of days. I'm going through reprogramming my
01:16:55
brain. I'm starting to talk to myself on purpose because you know I I knew there
01:17:01
was going to be a media storm after the second one and the first one for um but you've got to actually reprogram your
01:17:07
brain to start talking. You I've been silent for two months. It is really hard
01:17:12
to talk after you've been silent for two months, especially. >> Yeah, it would be. It would sound weird
01:17:18
in your own head. >> Oh, 100%. So, I I literally started having conversations with myself because
01:17:23
I knew I was going to have to step straight off the boat and talk to media in a reasonably it's all you feel like
01:17:30
doing is getting off and going, "Huh, that was good." But, um, you know,
01:17:33
you've got to be reasonably descriptive about it. So from an uh there was a whole plan from an emotional point of
01:17:40
view. It's like okay the experience and the journey that's mine. No one's really
01:17:44
going to know what this is like. Even if I explain to you what a 5 m wave like you are not going to get it.
01:17:49
>> No. >> Um and I that's my trip but I also know now this has got nationwide coverage. So
01:17:57
I kind of it's like this is your trip. So this is this is for you. And so I stepped out of it from that point of
01:18:05
view and that's how I could sort of do all that media straight away and just
01:18:08
changed that mindset straight into it because it was hours and hours of media >> and I was happy to and like I say it's
01:18:14
not my natural state >> but I needed to be happy to do it otherwise it wasn't going to deliver a
01:18:20
good experience >> and it and it was it was a fantastic experience but it wasn't mine anymore so
01:18:25
I started talking kind of on automatic I guess I guess you'd get >> cliches or
01:18:30
>> yeah I guess you get you get into that talk mode. I guess you would do it as a
01:18:34
DJ. Um, you know, where the mouth is on, the brain's working at the right speed
01:18:39
and, um, it becomes all fairly natural. >> Yeah. Like muscle memory in a way.
01:18:43
>> Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. >> Um, yeah. Yeah. We'll get to that um
01:18:46
that um epic moment shortly where you finished, but um yeah, a couple of other things like ever surprised by any
01:18:53
container ships or anything? Any you see anyone else out there? >> No. um on the first basically
01:19:00
200ks beside land. Yeah, heaps. And then maybe 150 by New Zealand a little bit. But um you know it's just it's a highway
01:19:10
outside Australia. So one of the tricks to paddling the Tasman is you need to get your first five days rate right
01:19:18
because you're going across the East Australian current. is quite a few guys
01:19:22
have tried this kind of thing and it's like you have to get across the East Australian current and they're like oh
01:19:27
yeah oh yeah they haven't figured out this their vectors 90 degrees to the current and so that the only predictable
01:19:35
weather you have is when you leave so that's why you have to wait for a window
01:19:39
to get across the current to get into the right wagon wheel to flick you on to because that's the strongest currents
01:19:46
where you have the least say in what's going on. So, you've really got to cover
01:19:50
that first couple hundredk as best you can, which is why you wait for the right weather window. Pretty
01:19:57
straightforward, but like I say, a lot of guys just don't get that right. So,
01:20:02
yeah, you've got to you've got to stay awake for a start cuz container ships,
01:20:08
they you know, you're going to come second. >> They're not stopping for you.
01:20:12
>> You're going to come second. You get on the radio. Yeah. >> Most of them pretty talkative and pretty
01:20:17
good. Um, and you put a light up and they can see you and and 90 90% of them are fine. Some of them, you know,
01:20:24
Russian or something, don't want to talk to you, can't talk to you, and it's
01:20:27
like, so you just have to be basically you got to be awake for the first couple days.
01:20:32
>> Uh, which is a good way to start the trip anyway. You got to get at it.
01:20:36
>> And, um, once you get further on, so pods of dolphins, massive pods of dolphins, do
01:20:45
>> 45 minutes. Potter dolphin spinners. They're called spinner dolphins. They
01:20:48
just literally spend half their time out of the water. Just fantastic. I mean, I've had some
01:20:54
experiences coastally, but in the open water, it's very cool cuz they're I
01:20:58
guess they're kind of bored. There's not much to see, but um they come, so they
01:21:02
actually come and have a look. Um yeah, just amazing uh stuff like that. But once you start
01:21:09
getting out that outside that 250k zone, there's there's nothing. There is
01:21:14
absolutely nothing. Um, there was a there was a right in the middle there was a bunch of fishing boats of Asian
01:21:26
descent. I'm not sure that they were supposed to be there or not, but they weren't up to good. I just figured my uh
01:21:34
my pocket knife and getaway boat wasn't fast enough. But anyway, >> as like drugs or something or
01:21:40
>> Oh, no. They they they were flee. They were net absolutely hauling nets in
01:21:46
>> right >> everywhere and they wouldn't talk to me. >> So um yeah I was like you [ __ ] So
01:21:52
anyway I paddled off um >> not your circus not your monkeys. >> Yeah. Yeah. So yeah nothing absolutely
01:22:01
nothing in the in the middle like you know there there were nights where oh I'm going to sleep for four hours. I'm
01:22:07
not even going to turn my light off on. Sorry. >> There's just nothing out here and
01:22:12
there's nothing, you know. >> I knew where the the the ship um the ships would cross, but um yeah. So, and
01:22:21
when you've got a horizon, you can see three or four hours ahead if anyone's
01:22:25
got a light. >> Um then nothing. Then yeah, I saw Russo's dolphin. I didn't I thought it
01:22:33
was a whale. thought I knew my dolphins pretty well, but a Russo's dolphin's
01:22:36
like almost as big as an orca orca. >> It's a massive sort of narwhal gray
01:22:41
colored. So, I saw a few of those, which was a cool experience. Um, there's always two birds with you. There's
01:22:47
always an albatross in a turn. And, you know, albatrosses when they sit there, they're big. So, they're kind of
01:22:55
cool to have around, but you don't want them pecking at your [ __ ] So, um, there's always, yeah, an albatross
01:23:02
or a turn. very few days without them. Um, but a lot of days with absolutely nothing in the middle. Um, there's when
01:23:10
the uh when the flying fish come across, oh, you know, it's can't believe I
01:23:15
wasn't hit in the face. They just come across, they hit your boat, they and you
01:23:20
don't uh, one of the things with skin integrity is you don't want any oil. So,
01:23:25
people say, "Did did you fish?" No, I didn't fish. Because you don't want the
01:23:28
oil on your hands because your hands are already So if you hold the paddle too tight when your hands are that wet, you
01:23:33
can rip your skin. So if you got fish oil on your hands, you're going to have
01:23:36
to hold the pedal too tight. And so you don't want fish oil anywhere in the boat
01:23:41
apart from the uh um bacterial side of it as well. >> So >> what about the biggest lessons about
01:23:48
yourself? >> Oh, that's a hard one now. having disappeared down the business hole and
01:23:54
done nothing for uh a few few years. Um I you know I slipped back into all the habits. So I I think
01:24:03
that's one of the reasons I can probably teach quite well is uh I' I've got the
01:24:07
front end of the spectrum and the back end of the spectrum in terms of doing it right and doing it wrong. Um it feels
01:24:14
like a bit of an experience that's a long way away from where I am now. M >> uh what did I learn about myself?
01:24:22
I really validated a lot about what I was teaching people and I was really happy to that with that. I kind of
01:24:28
expected that. Um I learned a bit I learned that I had a higher capacity than I already had and I
01:24:36
already thought my capacity for punishment was pretty high. Um but my best athletic performance was out there
01:24:43
ever and I've done a few things. So, you know, what I thought going was going
01:24:47
hard was not. >> Um, so my best athletic performance was Lord How the first time I'd paddled for
01:24:54
16 hours. Didn't know Lord How even Well, I knew it existed, but I didn't
01:24:59
know anything about Lord How when we decided to go to it. So, was it surrounded by rocks? What kind of
01:25:03
currents are there? And I'm approaching it in the day to night. So, I've been
01:25:08
paddling 14 hours. So, I did uh and then I got there and the wind had turned and
01:25:15
I thought, "Oh, yep. Bit of a tailwind. No problem. We'll roll right in there."
01:25:20
And it ended up being like a three and a half knot current. So, I had to sprint for eight hours after after a 14 16 hour
01:25:28
paddle. So, I had a 26-hour day and that included an 8hour sprint. And the current was so much that literally if I
01:25:36
had more than one spoonful of food, I went there and it took me two minutes to get back to pointing front. So I I
01:25:45
literally was sprinting for eight hours. Um I've never gone that hard in anything
01:25:51
in my life. And um because you because if you miss the island, you miss the island, you know, and I was I was kind
01:25:59
of desperate to make it >> um because we needed to get that battery replaced. So yeah, that was that's my
01:26:05
best ever physical performance. No medal, no finish line, no time, but it's by far my uh best.
01:26:12
>> Well, I mean the funny thing is even when you finished in 2018, like there's
01:26:16
no participation medal or finish medal anyway, is there? No. >> So that um I I remember this. So yeah,
01:26:21
2018 um there was some news stories coming up that you were sort of in New Zealand waters. Um I think um your
01:26:28
support boat had come out to to see you. So we were sort of getting updates in the media um that you were approaching
01:26:34
land. So did you you knew you were safe at that point? You knew you'd made it?
01:26:40
>> No. >> No. >> Well, based on the last trip, never say >> Yeah. Never, never, another
01:26:46
psychological, you know, athletic >> um primary directive, never ever drop
01:26:53
your performance until you're across the finish line. >> Yes, the last trip taught me that
01:26:59
>> and but so is you know how many how many times has that been proven in sport.
01:27:03
>> Um it's just it's just a and I didn't really drop the ball in terms
01:27:09
of expectation, but you know, that one's ingrained in me from way back. No, no,
01:27:13
you don't. You don't switch off until you're actually on land. Even, you know,
01:27:19
you can be hit by a a tourist boater >> in the last couple of KS, you know, on a
01:27:26
jet ski. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, no, no, I definitely didn't fall into that trap. I was never going to.
01:27:33
>> Yeah. >> So, you mentioned before you started to train yourself to talk again um for the
01:27:38
anticipation of the finish line. What were you saying? Did you think of a a quote like a we knocked the bastard off
01:27:43
or >> No. What was your line? >> No. No. I wasn't thinking about what to
01:27:47
say to the media. I was just all my thought processes about people. I just started expressing. It's like, you know,
01:27:53
oh, it's going to be great to see Z say again. You know, we're going to go and
01:27:57
do this. Stuff that your mind does. But I actually just started verbalizing it because the connection between your
01:28:03
mouth and the brain had >> been severed essentially. >> Yeah. >> So, I just talked. I didn't I I'm
01:28:09
reasonably relaxed in front of a camera. I guess I got feel like I've got nothing
01:28:13
to hide and I'm also kind of direct. Um and from the first experience I I was
01:28:20
kind of relaxed as well. So I'm I don't kind of lack information. Maybe I lack
01:28:24
expression sometimes, but I'm not I'm not uncomfortable in front of a crowd or
01:28:28
a camera. So that's kind of handy. Um, but the the first one was interesting
01:28:35
because I thought there was because you know the media can really get on the horse regarding safety and failure and
01:28:41
you know all of that kind of thing. I thought they were going to get on the horse after that first one.
01:28:45
>> Um, but uh they were it was amazing. So I they flew me into the hospital. I was
01:28:51
fine but um they wanted to check me out. Um and so I had a shave and and the media sat there quietly waiting while I
01:29:00
was you know I kept them all waiting for 2 hours which is absolutely rare for the
01:29:05
media >> and um yeah they were really respectful. They were like well done. I was
01:29:11
expecting a bit of a barrage. >> Um >> oh yeah they tend to look for a negative
01:29:15
angle. >> They do look for a negative angle and I was kind of thinking oh yeah here we go.
01:29:20
Um, and so it was probably that trip that I was thinking of things to say, >> right?
01:29:26
>> But, uh, not not not in the second trip. Um, I knew it was going to be busy. The
01:29:31
the guys had already said there's a lot of people here. So, >> yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've watched that
01:29:36
online the last couple of days and it's amazing. So, you arrive at Tanaki late
01:29:40
at late at night. Um, there's like th literally thousands of people waiting.
01:29:44
There's fireworks going off. Um it's like a real it's a it's a media scrum
01:29:49
around you like there's lots of lots of cameras, lots of civilians with phones.
01:29:54
Um yeah. How was that? Is that overwhelming? >> Well, again, I prepared for it. Um so,
01:29:59
no, it wasn't overwhelming. I mean, it was just great to see the guys and uh I
01:30:04
I was stoked, you know, I was wrapped. It was really good. And I kind of felt guilty because what I wanted to do was
01:30:11
talk to the people, but I ended up talking to the media and then I did get Zach off to hospital with his asthma.
01:30:17
So, um, you know, cuz they came out there. It was cold, shitty weather. And they had been there because they didn't
01:30:24
know when I was arriving really. Um, they'd been there ages and and it was just so, you know, I I so appreciated
01:30:32
that. >> Um, and you know, I wasn't sure if I could walk. I I thought I could because
01:30:38
I did squats every day in the boat to make sure I could walk. >> How? In the cockpit.
01:30:43
>> Yeah, I'll go back to that in a sec. Okay. Um, so yeah, I I I was wrapped
01:30:50
with everybody being there and they were all really enthusiastic about it because
01:30:55
there is kind of something in this trip and it's been a while since New Zealand's had a bit of a an adventure
01:31:00
>> thing to to get their head around and it was just amazing and I really wanted to
01:31:05
give back to those, you know, people that had put the time in to turn up. >> Um, but I was kind of rushed off to the
01:31:11
media and and did that and everyone stayed out civil. A lot of people stayed outside. So, but I felt like I should
01:31:17
have talked to them more than the media. >> Um, but then, you know, uh, we had to
01:31:23
get Zack off cuz he ran around and got asthma. So, >> still have the limelight off. Yeah.
01:31:28
>> Oh, yeah. So, so the squats. >> Yeah. >> So, just just so your your muscles don't
01:31:34
don't um wither away too much, leaving you unable to walk. physically there's a
01:31:39
there's a whole again we can talk about the the physiological and physical aspects of this are massive. I mean I've
01:31:45
dismissed it a little bit because I've got a history in being fit >> but it's not necessarily about being
01:31:51
fit. The first priority in terms of your fitness is actually muscle and tendon and ligament integrity because if you
01:31:58
can't paddle then you got nothing. So what's the most important thing for the
01:32:02
day? Being able to keep paddling. It's not how hard can I perform. Although that's where I was certainly on the
01:32:08
second trip. Um, so yeah, you're you sit on your ass for two weeks in a kayak,
01:32:16
you won't be able to walk. I mean, some people if they literally do 48 hours of
01:32:20
paddling, can't walk. I mean, you watch the coast to coast, people struggle to
01:32:24
get out of their boats and walk after that. >> So, yeah, a couple of weeks on your ass
01:32:29
and and you're you're dead. So, like, how do we get the seat to work in an
01:32:35
effective fashion because what's one of the areas you really need to look at
01:32:39
skin integrity on your ass, right? So, I've got a seat that first of all rotates. So, what that does is when you
01:32:47
biomechanically push through a stroke, it allows your whole body to work through a stroke a bit more effectively.
01:32:53
Like in the Olympics, they they they use rotating seats sometimes. Uh, and then when you put your paddle in, uh, and you
01:33:01
you pull it back, how much friction is going to be put into your backside? Uh, and when you do get an abrasion on your
01:33:08
backside, is there anything you can do about it? So, you're going to get abrasions. Can you paddle through them?
01:33:14
Not for two months, not really. >> Um, so I've got three layers of rubber,
01:33:19
soft, harder, harder. And when it when I do get an abrasion, I just scoop out a little bit of where my abrasion is. And
01:33:29
then Yeah. And then then you've got frictional forces. What material have you got in there? And what uh pulling
01:33:38
ability does it have to pull the salt away from your backside. You know, all all that research into materials and
01:33:44
friction and all of that did all of that, too. So, >> uh really scientific in terms of that
01:33:49
side of things. maybe less exciting, but I you know, it's part of the part of the
01:33:52
game for me. >> Yeah. And that first um hot shower, what's that like? >> Interesting
01:33:59
because it was in the club rooms at the surf club and um there were just people, it was like an
01:34:07
open shower and there were people walking around and Sarah's like, "Can I
01:34:10
see your ass?" And it was just >> she's such a creep. >> She wasn't the only one in there. there
01:34:18
just people around and there you're still talking kind of doing interviews you know not on camera but
01:34:24
>> um yeah it was a very social shower um so you know in in terms of uh privacy no
01:34:31
um but you it just didn't matter you know >> was your was what was your body like
01:34:34
your upper body must have been um ripped >> yeah incredible >> I was so healthy like I got nutrition
01:34:41
nailed nutrition is a beautiful thing when you get it right >> um that's that's a whole another
01:34:46
discussion Um, yeah. I honestly I I wanted to go and run or ride up some hills because I would have done it
01:34:54
faster than I've ever done in my life because of my body fat was spot on. My
01:34:57
health was spot on. My fitness I could go out and pedal 16 hours hard in a row days on end.
01:35:04
>> Yeah, I was I was fit. I was healthy. I was really good. >> And what about adjusting back to normal
01:35:10
life, like sleep and stuff like that? Did it happen immediately or? >> No. No, it did. I mean, it wasn't normal
01:35:19
life because of the media and the, you know, that lasted for weeks, not just a couple of days. So, life was very
01:35:26
different. Um, yeah, polar opposite. So, you know, you're getting up, having a shower,
01:35:32
making sure you look you've had a shave, you know, for a start, you're lying in a
01:35:36
bed that doesn't move. Uh my adaptation there was really good because a lot of
01:35:41
people get off those and they're still swaying for two or three days but I it
01:35:45
was pretty good because of my training. >> Um adaptation. Yeah, it was yeah it was
01:35:52
just a whirlwind I guess and and you just dealt with what was in front of you which was kind of but good because life
01:35:57
was so simple out there >> and then you're dealing with the media which is also kind of it at least gives
01:36:04
you a job. >> You know what I mean? um narrows things down so you don't really have a lot of
01:36:08
time to reflect. >> And did did the achievement bring you the kind of personal satisfaction that
01:36:13
you imagined it would? >> Yeah. Second time, yes, because I knew exactly what I was in for. I mean, it
01:36:19
did the first time. >> It gave me all the personal satisfaction except the scratch
01:36:24
to scratch the itch of winning >> and and you know, that's to me that's
01:36:28
doing Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's the point. You got to got to at least have a crack at winning.
01:36:33
>> Yeah. And what about um adjusting back to um civilian life after being on a
01:36:38
like a crazy huge adventure like that? >> Yeah, different. Very, very different. I
01:36:43
mean, it's it took a bit of adjustment because things, you know, they come and
01:36:49
you react to stuff you're not in control of, which is kind of a little bit like
01:36:52
life, but it's >> you're not in control of anything. your boss is the weather and that's that's
01:36:59
wonderfully simple >> and it's it's it's not negotiable. It's very simple and and uh it's it's a
01:37:07
great life. Um it's it's just adjusting back to life. That's I'll I'll give you an idea from a
01:37:15
physical point of view. Uh before I left, I was close to needing reading glasses. Um I've done pretty well to
01:37:21
stay stay away. Uh, and I kind of, you know, oh yeah, I can read that. >> Um, when I got over, didn't need them.
01:37:29
Just didn't need them. That adjustment had been made. The eyes were just, my
01:37:33
health was just fantastic and the eyes were better. Like when you paddle it, you're so because your senses have been
01:37:39
>> um not assaulted by anything screenwise or otherwise and general life-wise.
01:37:45
you've been out there like I'm I'm smelling different types of firewood
01:37:49
burning on the mountain when I'm paddling in. I'm smelling the the the ashfelt that's been laid the day before
01:37:56
and I'm 10ks away. You know, just your senses are so heightened and because you
01:38:02
haven't had that screen input and that dulling down of things like sitting in a
01:38:07
car having to wait, you know, none of that. Um, everything like that was I knew it was coming, but it it just it
01:38:15
was it took a bit of adjusting. >> You couldn't recognize that your own
01:38:19
cabin stunk, though. >> Couldn't recognize my own cabin stunk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the boys from
01:38:27
um from customs. Way to go. Way to go. See you. >> We're good. You're just looking at it
01:38:34
from with binoculars from 30 m away. >> Exactly. >> No bananas in there. You're all right.
01:38:39
>> Yeah. Wow. What are your thoughts on resilience? Are you born resilient or do
01:38:44
you build it? >> Both. >> Yeah, definitely both. >> I mean, it's like um competitiveness,
01:38:51
you know, there's there's some people that are just born >> with that dog.
01:38:56
>> Um but it's also it's also trainable to an extent. >> So, yeah, it's it's like talent, you
01:39:03
know, there's there's talent. You can train it. Definitely train talent. Um
01:39:07
but, you know, there's If you don't have the innate talent, you're not going to make an Olympic
01:39:14
final. >> You got to have the innate talent there. And that's, you know, there's different
01:39:20
ways to go about that in terms of attitude and uh dog and resilience and things like that.
01:39:26
>> You know, you've got you got people with a lot of dog but no resilience.
01:39:30
>> That's not a good thing. That's that's out of balance. Um whereas you've got
01:39:34
people with >> huge resilience but not a lot of talent. And those people tend to train
01:39:39
themselves more at resilience because they do have to be resilient, >> you know. And again, and that's that's
01:39:44
that's why I let Zach get bowled by the surf. >> That's that's exactly where it start,
01:39:50
you know, a get some respect, but b get the resilience to to cop a mouthful of water and get up and and cope with it.
01:39:57
And until you've done that, you're not actually safe. Doesn't matter how good a
01:40:00
swimmer you are. >> Yeah. I I think a lot of parents these days, and I mean, everyone's entitled to
01:40:05
raise their kids the way they want, but they want to they they have this unrealistic expectation that their kids
01:40:10
should be happy all the time, and they want to protect them from absolutely everything.
01:40:13
>> Yum. And therefore, they're depriving them the opportunity to build
01:40:16
resilience. Just a thought. >> Yeah. Oh, it's the old school thing. Oh,
01:40:20
no. Don't climb that tree. It's dangerous. >> Yeah. >> Climb a tree, fall out, and learn the
01:40:24
lesson for life. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. Has life seemed boring since since
01:40:31
then or what's the biggest sort of challenges or obstacles you've had since?
01:40:35
>> Well, it's expectations, but the short answer would be yes. >> It's I mean it's
01:40:42
it's an appreciation for what I don't have, which is the simplicity of life
01:40:46
out there. >> And um that's yeah, I can I can go and get it. I can go and jump in the boat
01:40:52
and go for a paddle for, you know, a weekend, whatever. That's that's fine.
01:40:55
And I should do that more. >> I really should. and and I probably will. Um
01:41:03
yeah, I've just got to make sure I'm fit enough not not to break myself when I do
01:41:07
it. >> And when when people talk to you about the journey, um what do you wish that
01:41:12
they'd ask you or you know what part of the story is the part that gets most
01:41:16
often overlooked? >> Uh overlooked it's I kind of break it down into sections, right? You've got psychology,
01:41:24
you've got technology like the, you know, some people are into the the maths
01:41:28
equations of the vectors and the solar and, you know, that kind of stuff. You've got the health side of things,
01:41:36
skin integrity. Um, you know, bacterial issues. Um, you know, what did you do about antibiotics? What did you have to
01:41:46
do um medically? Like you have to be able to put stitches in, all kinds of stuff. U inject yourself, all of that
01:41:52
kind of stuff. Um, >> did you need to do that? >> Um, >> stitches.
01:41:57
>> I didn't need to do stitches. No, >> you got it wrong if you did. But you
01:42:01
need to be able to do it. >> I've actually done it previously on myself. So
01:42:05
>> that's that that was not an issue. But um >> yeah, again, you just have to be really
01:42:11
careful. Like if you're out of getting in and out of the boat, you just can't
01:42:14
scratch yourself on something. >> Um yeah, so there's there's a category
01:42:20
for everyone and that's how I see it. There's a there's a you know what's
01:42:24
really boring to someone which might be the technology is >> you know there's there's an area for
01:42:29
someone everywhere and that's like I said when I came in I sort of gave the trip over to the general public and it's
01:42:35
it's it's theirs now so it's whatever they want to take out of it so I have no
01:42:40
expectations on what anyone wants. Um the blue bowl will be one of the top three questions out of any school group.
01:42:50
What though? >> One of the first three questions out of any school group will be the blue bowl.
01:42:56
>> That's a guarantee. >> Do you do you take it as like a show and
01:42:59
tell for Oh god. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's always going to happen. Um and and like I say, I I
01:43:06
could try and explain to you what it feels like to sit on a 5 m wave, you know? Uh but you're never really going
01:43:13
to know if if you've done a few things similar like sailors are really interested in this uh that because of
01:43:19
the you know the sea activity but they're not going to know what it's like
01:43:24
to be at sea level when >> when a 3 m swell comes across and caps and dumps a couple of tons of water on
01:43:31
you. you know, around the world ocean races, they will get closer to knowing, but even then they've got gear they can
01:43:38
adjust for the conditions. Whereas in a kayak, you just here it comes, >> hold on.
01:43:45
>> How I mean, we've been talking about this for almost two hours now. How And
01:43:48
I'm I'm I'm guessing this is quite rare for you these days. How often do you
01:43:51
even think about it or talk about it? >> Um, yeah, more and more rarely in the in
01:43:56
the last few years because I've I've had a focus. Um, but I've sort of got my
01:44:00
head above water now. So, I'm, you know, trying to get back on the horse physically a little bit and um, you
01:44:06
know, just just get healthy really. >> And, uh, that gives me the that that
01:44:10
includes physically, but it that includes the head space as well. >> Yeah.
01:44:13
>> So, no, I' I've spent quite a few years not even talking about it and thinking I
01:44:18
really need to give the boat some attention and do a few things to it and yeah, so we've taken the cover off. So,
01:44:25
that's a start. >> Are you getting itchy feet? >> Never say never. Never say that
01:44:31
>> what what you what do you want to do? Blue sky thinking like what are you
01:44:35
>> Well, like I said, I' I'd go tomorrow if someone came to me and said, "Here's all
01:44:39
the finance you need to do this." Um, I'd go tomorrow and do the South Route
01:44:44
because I know I can. And I'm comfortable in those conditions and, you know, there's there's other there's
01:44:50
other bits and pieces. But on the other side of the coin, I'm old, >> you know, in terms of trying to bite
01:44:56
that big. >> So, you're 56 now. >> Yep. So you're how old when you did it?
01:45:02
>> Seven years ago. Oh yeah. 49. >> Yeah. 48. Yeah. >> Yeah. Even that's inspiring because a
01:45:07
lot of people depending on what what age you are, a lot of people think that's
01:45:10
old to be doing. >> Just to get the flexibility to operate inside the boat at 48 was quite
01:45:15
>> quite an achievement in it itself in and of itself. It's um you know getting
01:45:20
flexibility at 48 years old. That's that's tricky. M >> it's interesting to me that you'd say
01:45:25
you'd do it again in a in a heartbeat if money was no option because it's like um
01:45:28
if if you're doing it again, you're doing it like just for you. Like you've
01:45:31
you've got nothing to prove to anybody, right? >> It's my happy place. I like I I love it
01:45:36
out there. Yep. Definitely happy place. Um, >> did you find it weird during CO how
01:45:43
everyone was all triggered about being at home and getting cabin fever and the isolation and
01:45:49
>> Yeah, it's just that just shake your head, nod. Yeah. Yeah. Good on you.
01:45:54
>> Okay. Future go future goals. >> Future goals. >> Yeah. No, none at the moment. Just just
01:46:00
get it back on the back on the horse physically because I haven't felt healthy.
01:46:05
um you know just just and I've started that ball rolling like I had a whole lot
01:46:10
of sinus issues and stuff like that. So I had the surgeon you know drill me a couple of new holes a few months ago and
01:46:18
and now I'm breathing like a teenager. I can go for a run and nose breathe which
01:46:22
is that's just exciting to me you know it's just like oh that's exciting. So,
01:46:29
uh, yeah, just getting back on the horse. Like I went for a I went for a 60k ride a couple of weeks ago, you
01:46:35
know, just just doing stuff like that. Um, and and just being able to, you know, I my young fella's 15. We're going
01:46:43
to we're going to go skiing in two or three weeks. I I need to I need to do some squats.
01:46:50
I'm just not going to be able to pound the hill all day. I'm going to want to
01:46:53
go into the cafe. Well, I'm not going to want to come in the cafe, but um >> Oh, you think it's expensive to cross
01:46:58
the tasine in a kayak? >> Try buying a bread roll at the cafe on the mountain.
01:47:02
>> Exactly. But, you know, just just I want to be able to handle that all day with a
01:47:06
young fell and and and and have fun, you know. >> Yeah. >> Um and and say, "Right, mate, there's a
01:47:12
mountain. We need to go up it now >> uh on the way down." Or, you know, just
01:47:17
just do stuff like that. Live live how I've lived most of my life and and show
01:47:22
them that that's that's the way to do it. If you see a mountain, go do it. But
01:47:25
don't, you know, go get the map first, figure out your plan, get some redundancy, then go do it. Don't just go
01:47:33
do it. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. >> It's really good to hear that there's um
01:47:37
stuff that you're excited by cuz Yeah. Part of me wondered if you go go through
01:47:40
something like this, which you've been through, which you can't it's not an
01:47:43
experience that you can really share with anyone. I I wondered if there'd be
01:47:47
um it'd be hard to find that sort of excitement threshold in anything in life
01:47:50
again. Um, yeah. Yeah, it that's true. But, you know, I could go bush for a week and and
01:47:58
get the get the philosophical side again. Or I could go go out on the sea. But there's
01:48:04
there's always bits and pieces, you know, like running up to the top of a mountain. When you've run to the top of
01:48:09
a mountain and you're standing on top, that sensation is is really good. Um,
01:48:15
and that's kind of some of the sensation you get out there. Yeah, it was a little
01:48:18
more, but you can find it in other ways. M >> yeah, for sure. Like I I'm amping to get
01:48:23
back to Europe. I want to go up those, you know, I want to bike up 20ks worth of mountain, you know, or or go running
01:48:29
up, you know, some some really big mountains. Um but we've got them in the South Island, so you know,
01:48:35
>> um you know, we're going to be doing that in a few weeks. >> Jeez, you you you're built different,
01:48:40
aren't you? >> Yeah, I know. Is is um is Zach, your son, proud of you? Does he sort of have
01:48:48
an appreciation for what you've done? >> Uh, you'd have to ask him. Kind of a I
01:48:54
mean, he's he's t teenage boy, >> whatever, that. >> Yeah. Um, I I I think he is proud. It's
01:49:02
he's still he still hasn't read the book. Um, I don't want him to read the
01:49:07
book until he feels like reading the book. >> Um, not that that's really going to
01:49:12
change a lot for him. Um, yeah. Yeah, he certainly feels the pressure of not just
01:49:17
the pedal, but my past. So, you know, he hates the fact I can get on a bike and still beat him. I shouldn't I'm old. I
01:49:24
shouldn't be able to do that. Um, so he's just like, "Oh, I should."
01:49:29
And he's he can swim faster than me now, which is he's, >> you know, is great. Those those are
01:49:35
really good milestones, you know, and um >> it's great, but also a humbling day when
01:49:38
it happens. >> Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I did I did nothing to stop it. I didn't get
01:49:44
back in the pool for 5 minutes to try and stretch it out, although I would probably have if I had time.
01:49:50
>> Um, but you know, he's going great. He's starting to realize himself. And it it's
01:49:56
it's kind of good that I didn't have the media profile and that that possibly
01:49:59
would have more overshadowed it, but he's he's his own person. He's nothing
01:50:04
like me. Um, I mean, he's got a few traits and whatnot, but um, yeah, hopefully there's there's not a lot of
01:50:10
pressure there. be a good good question for someone else to ask him. >> Yeah, I'm I'm sure he's inspired because
01:50:16
to your you know, dad's just add. But but he because he knows you as just a human being, it just goes to show that
01:50:22
whatever he puts his mind to regardless of how huge it is, it can be done. >> Yeah, I think he's he's getting there on
01:50:28
that. And because I'm trying to have him live like that, it's like, okay, what do
01:50:32
you want to do, you know, academically or or whatever. Um, but in terms of him being inspired, I I think it's more of a
01:50:40
case of cuz when he was, you know, when he was six and we had a 20 m race across
01:50:46
the beach, I only let him win on occasion. And he's like, he's like, "Oh, no, dad can just kick my
01:50:54
ass at everything, so I'm not going to bother." >> Um, but he's starting, you know, he's
01:50:59
starting to give me a bump on the way past now, which is really cool. So, maybe that's changed a bit. I don't know
01:51:04
whether it's inspiration. >> You You got to keep them humble when they're young, don't you? You just
01:51:08
remind them of who who's the top dog. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, learning to
01:51:13
lose is better than learning to win, right? >> Yeah. >> Um, you know, so and and actually that
01:51:19
four, five, six age is the best age, I believe, to learn that, >> you know, get
01:51:25
>> get your get your ass kicked a couple of times in in some way or another. It's a
01:51:29
good thing because you've got to get up >> and you learn that it's not a good
01:51:33
feeling and that you should do something about it if you don't want to experience
01:51:36
that as much. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Are you proud of yourself? >> Uh,
01:51:43
yes. I mean, are there things I could have done better? Absolutely. Um, not just from a campaign point of view, but
01:51:50
you know, I'm like everyone else with relationships and problems and stress and all of that. I mean, that's that's
01:51:56
one of the things that was beautiful out there. didn't stress me. Not not in the
01:51:59
least. >> Uh because it's all very very predictable. But you know, once you're
01:52:04
back in real life, there are other >> stresses in life. So, >> uh from that side of things, I've I've
01:52:10
got just as much to to work on as everybody else. I'm no no better or worse. Um proud of it, absolutely. Um
01:52:18
but proud of it because you think it's cool? Not really. I'm I'm proud of it
01:52:24
because it I did what I I set out to to do journey-wise >> and um you know I it was my experience.
01:52:34
I pushed myself. I I learned things and that's that was just Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
01:52:40
>> I I I just think it's cool because um like physically and mentally it's just
01:52:44
something that I couldn't fathom doing you myself. It just seems crazy to me.
01:52:49
>> Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that you demystified it today and you know talked
01:52:53
about it so sort of methodically um about how it wasn't Yeah. I wondered if it was like when you took off if it was
01:53:00
like a 50-50 chance you're going to make it or not but >> Yeah. No, it's I mean it's absolutely
01:53:05
empirical. Everything is empirical. The way we operate, how we did things empirical and to the point where you
01:53:11
know it's like a runner. You get I put everybody on a spectrum. It's like being
01:53:15
a sound mixer. Um, you get a runner. You've got the runner who goes for a two-hour run and gets back at 155 and
01:53:22
goes, "No, I've got to go for two hours." And they run around in circles
01:53:25
in front of their driveway. And then you get the runner that goes out without a watch and goes, "Oh,
01:53:31
couple hours will be good today. Hour and a half, I'm done." >> Yeah. So, everyone's on a spectrum in
01:53:36
between there. And so, I say always when you when you pick a coach, if you're
01:53:41
here on the spectrum, try and pick a coach that's slightly different. So, if
01:53:45
you're on the more relaxed end, you need to be taught how to be more empirical,
01:53:50
uh, more scientific. If you're on the if you're on the rigid end, you need to be
01:53:56
taught how to, you know, >> ride the bike in a beautiful way. Um, get those sensations. So, uh, that's
01:54:05
that's a balance that I had to constantly remind myself to do, you know, stop, smell the roses, actually
01:54:12
look again at the sunset. soak it in. Um really really enjoy every single part and I tried to also do that with you
01:54:20
know even the media which was not my thing. So your strongest ability in life is your ability to change your attitude
01:54:27
to something. >> You know if if you don't like maths at school you're not going to do well.
01:54:31
You're not going to do as well as your capacity enables you to do. So if you
01:54:35
have the ability to change your attitude to that then yeah. So, in that respect,
01:54:41
you know, I'm uh I'm I'm I've got a lot of work to do as same as everybody else,
01:54:46
but >> I want to I I want to get back on the horse in terms of those sensations.
01:54:55
>> Um but yeah, I'm I'm not perfect at it either, but I definitely was out there.
01:55:00
Yeah. >> Yeah. You've done it. You've done something amazing. It's incredible. Hey,
01:55:05
Scott Donaldson, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Um, I've
01:55:09
really enjoyed it. You you you hate you hate media stuff. How's this been for
01:55:12
you? >> Has this been okay? >> Oh, refreshing. It's been a long time.
01:55:16
So, it's been, you know, it's been nice and and the the no format. Like, if I
01:55:20
was sitting there listening to this, I I would probably think it's quite boring.
01:55:25
I don't I don't know. I don't know how I sound, but um yeah, it's it's been kind
01:55:31
of fun to just remember it a bit. >> Yeah. I know. I like this about long form podcast. Like, someone can listen
01:55:35
to it and if they get bored, they can it's like a book. You pick it up. If if
01:55:38
you're not enjoying it, put it down. If you're enjoying it, you can pause it,
01:55:42
get back to it or or read it all slash listen to it in one go. >> Yeah. It was like when I wrote the
01:55:47
process of writing the book, which was good process, but you know, they were they were like the publishers, you've
01:55:53
got to put some of your history and I'm I get bored when I read someone's
01:55:57
history. I want to get to the guts of it. But I had to do the history bit, you know. So, yeah, it's it's good. We
01:56:03
didn't go into too much history. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I tried to Yeah. You wrote
01:56:06
a book called Relentless with um an old mate of mine, Steve Kgallan. >> Yes.
01:56:10
>> Um I tried to track it down um but I couldn't couldn't track down a copy, but
01:56:14
um >> Well, I'll get you one. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, your son's not going
01:56:17
to read it. Give me that. >> Yeah, I will give you that copy. Yeah. >> Hey, Scott, thank you so much for coming
01:56:21
on the podcast, mate. >> Yeah. Great to be here. Appreciate it.