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James Lachland, welcome to my podcast. Dom, I'm so glad to be here. I was actually on the way over in the cab this
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morning and I was thinking I'm a bit nervous. Why? Cuz I'm usually sitting in
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a different seat. I'm sometimes, you know, the host and it's it's different
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to be the guest. So, I look up to you. I've got deep respect for you. I think
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you're the the leader in broadcasting and podcasting. So, it's it's an honor
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to sit beside you, mate. >> Well, likewise, mate. I really appreciate it. You've got a a new book
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coming out called Habits of High Performers, which is um I understand it's not the sort of book that everyone
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would be into, but it's my sort of book. Uh like if I'm in Paper Plus and I see a
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book like this, it's a book that I'm going to flick through and probably buy.
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Um yeah. So, you sent me like a PDF copy of it cuz the actual book is not out yet. By the time this podcast comes out,
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it will be out. >> And I'm a slow reader, so I haven't read the entire thing. Um but I've read I I I
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skimmed through it and it looks incredible. Looks amazing. >> Thank you. So in this book, by the way,
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we'll get into this and then we'll loop back around and we'll get the whole
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James Lachland story. So there's um seven truths of high performance and in in those seven truths, 27 principles.
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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Little micro principles. I think that often when we learn learning in big
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chunks is difficult. So I like to break it down into what are the micro principles. There's seven key habits
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there of high performers and then there's little principles and I almost look at that like a daily you learn
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something a day. It might take you a month to read the book, one a day and you're pretty much through it.
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>> Yeah. So, let's run through these. Number one of the seven truths, get
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radically clear. What does that mean in a nutshell? >> Look, when I ask people what do they
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want, they usually start with um you know, what do you want out of life? What do you want out of your work? What do
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you want to be as a a parent, as a partner? Um when people start with um they have no idea. They have no clue.
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So, it's about getting radically clear. The people that I work with that are the
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best in the business, they can say it's on the tip of their tongue. So getting
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radically clear on what success looks like to you, not to social media, not to your next door neighbor, not to your
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mom, but but to you. And so taking the time to get clear on what you want. >> What percentage of people don't know?
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>> Oh, I would say like 90 plus% of people. >> Okay. >> So if anyone doesn't know, they
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shouldn't feel bad about it. >> No, like join the club. Like for about
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90% of my life, I had no clue what I wanted. >> And it takes time to sit down and get
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out of your head and onto the page. uh because most of us are stuck in our heads and going around in circles and
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chasing things and keeping up with the Joneses. >> So I think slow down, take a breath and
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just get clear on what success looks like. And >> you got to think big, but I suppose not
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unreasonably big. Like for example, I I can't be the all black captain now. Probably
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>> give it a crack. I'd love to see it, man. I'd love to see that.
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>> Uh number two on these seven truths, supercharge your belief systems. >> Yeah. So Dom, you're full of BS belief
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systems. We've all got it. Can I ask you something? >> Yeah. >> Don't be kind to me. Just say what you
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think. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you think of an Irishman?
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>> No, I can't say it. I'll alcoholic. >> Bang on. Brilliant. Any other things
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come to mind? >> Oh, no. Just fun fun people. Um, they love to fight. >> Yeah. Fiddly potatoes.
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>> Yeah. >> Right. We've got >> Oh, this is terrible. I got to edit this
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out. >> No, keep it in. These are the things I would call your BS. They're your belief
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systems. Look, we've got those sitting at our subconscious minds about work,
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about our strength, about our fitness, about our finances. We've got those beliefs. If someone was to say, "Luxen,
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people have BS belief systems about leaders, about money. I don't know what you think about money, but I believed
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growing up in a working-class town in Northern Ireland that money doesn't grow
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on trees." Now, that did not help me. That did not serve me at all. So, BS is
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something that high performers are very clear on. What beliefs do they need to have to achieve what they want? So, you
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know, saying is believing and achieving begins with believing. You've got to
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work on these things internally before you start taking action. >> It's funny that you should use the line
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money doesn't grow on trees because that was like a mantra in our household as
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well. We asked for money and it's um you look back now and it definitely creates
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a scarcity mindset, doesn't it? >> It really does. And I I always I was
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working in a hotel. It was my first job uh a beastro waiter in the mornings and uh minimum wage and I'd always managed
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to spend the money each week. I had no money left over, lots of week left over at the end of the money.
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>> And I was going, "Okay, what what do we do?" And so I actually read a book. It
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was called uh the one minute millionaire. And I felt a bit weird reading. I felt a bit guilty. I was
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like, "I shouldn't be reading this. This is we're not millionaires around here."
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>> But it shifted my thinking. And just one book was enough to re reshift my belief
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system majorly at 18 19 >> and so everyone listening go and get that book.
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>> Yeah. Well, get habits of high performers first. And then number three in the uh seven truths of high
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performers uh lead your life on purpose. >> Look, purpose is this word that I think
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is almost I think it's been used a lot and it's it's it's losing what it's all
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about in terms of its substance. So when you look at purpose, people who have purpose get out of bed easier in the
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morning. People who have purpose live longer. Their health span and their lifespan increases. They do better work.
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They connect better with others. They have more fulfillment. They on average have less substance abuse, less
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alcoholics, less drug addicts when there's purpose involved. So I'm deep on
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purpose. I I spent a lot of time thinking about what's mine. What is it today?
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>> Because all of us, Dom, have a purpose every single day. It could be to get up
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and feed the dog. It doesn't need to be this massive change the world thing.
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>> And for a long time in my 20s and early 30s, that's what it was like. How do I
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change the world? What's my big thing? How do I do what Mandela did? I'm never
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going to do that, but I can do a little bit. And so high performers get clear on
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why am I doing this? Why am I in the All Blacks? Why am I pushing myself to go to
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the Olympics? And when they get clear on that, like they get clear on their why.
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The how is easy. >> So lead your life on purpose. I think it's something we should all focus on.
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>> The next one, uh, multiply your motivation. >> So someone will come and say, "Hey, Dom,
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just don't talk to me. Don't talk to me until I've had my coffee. Like I need a
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coffee like in the mornings." Is that you, Don? >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. Oh, no. Actually, no.
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No, it's not. To be fair, I I like the taste, but I don't think caffeine does
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anything tangible to me. >> There we go. That's That's what I say to
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people. Don't give up your coffee. >> Drink coffee cuz you love it. And the
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smell, like the old espresso machine, I love that smell, right? But I don't need
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caffeine. High performers don't need motivation >> externally. They don't need the prizes.
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They don't need the big awards. You know, Scotty Sheffller recently said like, "This is not about the winning. I
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don't I don't care if I win another one. It's not what it's about. It's the
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process. It's the commitment. It's the discipline. >> So intrinsic motivation is just import
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is more important than exttrinsic. You know when you you walk through u the airport here in New Zealand and you
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might see someone with a backpack and on the backpack they've got their koru um
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coro what's it called? A gold elite stat. >> Yeah. The little tag >> that doesn't need to be on that bag.
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>> They don't need that to get through anything. But what they're telling
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people is >> I've got a bit of status. And that doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it
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wrong. doesn't make it good or bad. It just is. But for that person, they've
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got quite a bit of extrinsic motivation around status. >> I'm pretty sure I've still got that tag
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on my back. Even though even though I've been um downgraded to silver this year,
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>> I don't believe that, Dom, >> what a loser. >> Lifetime gold elite right there.
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>> Um, next one. Oh, this is really boring. Do the work. >> Yeah, >> do the work is boring. I think about
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doing the work as, you know, you've got to discipline your inner domain to dominate the outer domain. So if you
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want to become the next big CEO, if you want to get that big increase in your salary, if you want to become the best
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podcaster in New Zealand, you've got to work on yourself and do the work and not
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tell people about it. This whole thing of, you know, there's an amazing guy in
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the US who 4 a.m. he takes a photo of his um watch, puts it up. I don't believe in that. just do the work in the
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dark >> and then shine in the light. So, whatever you're working on, just do it.
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Do it for yourself. Work on it. You don't need to tell everybody about everything.
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>> So, do the work. Get on with it. You know, don't be a talker. Be a walker.
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>> Yeah. One thing I found from um doing um my podcast and speaking to a lot of um
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you know, high achievers and very successful people. Hard work is the only cheat code there is. That's that's
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probably the one thing they all have in common. >> I agree. Life rewards effort, right?
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>> Yeah. Yeah. >> You're no different. How many years have you been in broadcasting and
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broadcasting? >> Uh like 30 something years. Yeah, >> you're not an overnight success. You
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worked your butt off >> and now you're at the top of the game and everyone's looking to do going, "How
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do we do that?" >> You just work really hard for a really long time >> and still learning. I think that's the
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key. Eh, >> yeah, 100%. >> Uh, next one. Number six in the seven truths of high performers from your
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book, Habits of High Performers. Focus on your priorities. >> Dom, how many times do you hear people
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say, "I'm just so busy. I'm so busy right now." Often, right? So, I had a
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client come to me working with him for a while. James, I'm just so busy. that's
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why I'm not getting the results in the business. I like give me your phone. And
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he kind of goes, "What do you mean?" I said, "Give me your phone." So, let's
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get the screen time up. So, we get the screen time. He's looking a bit nervous
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at this stage, Tom. And we go through and I said, "Okay, so mate, how many clients did you get on Facebook?" He
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went, "Uh, none." I was like, "Ever? No. None. No clients ever." No. Why did you
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spend seven hours and 51 minutes this week on Facebook? Face goes red. I like Okay, Tik Tok. How many clients did you
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get on there? James, I'm in financial services. None. I like, well, you spent
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seven hours and 13 minutes on there. >> So, people who are high performers focus
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on their priorities. They're not busy. They're busy being productive and
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getting clear on what they don't do, what they won't touch. Their morning
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routines are solid. You know, I look at your morning routine. I see you up. You're running. I looked at your Strava.
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You're consistently committed to it. High performers focus on what matters most.
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>> Do you have a strict morning routine? of a a morning routine that just gets me
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going. >> Yeah. What is it? What is the the optimum optimum routine for you?
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>> Yeah. So, I read a book uh I'm a big reader. I love reading it called The 5
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a.m. Club. >> Oh, Robin Sharma. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Who also wrote a um a little um is it a
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review for your book? He did. A little comment at the beginning. Yeah. I was going to ask how you got how you got
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Robin Sharma over the line. >> H Robin's a good mate. Yeah. He's an
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incredible guy. I met up with him actually two weeks ago in Cape Town just to talk about life and writing and
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leadership and the things that him and I geek out on. But he wrote that 5 a.m. club and it really got me thinking about
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how important the morning is. So for me it's between 5 and 520 I'll get up.
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First thing I'll do is I'll not get up. I'll turn the light on. I'll grab my
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journal and I'll start writing what I'm grateful for. So this morning in the
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hotel I'm grateful for Dom Harvey for hosting me, for having me on the show.
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I'm grateful for Finn, grateful for Caroline. The simple things that you're
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truly grateful for. Uh I'll then focus on what's most important for the day.
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I'll get up. I'll stretch. I'll drink a lot of water with lemon. alkalize the
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body. Uh then I'll meditate for about 15 20 minutes. Uh and then if I've got
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time, I'll do a little yoga session or resistance training in the morning and
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then it's straight into it. So it doesn't take long. It'll be 40 50 minutes. But when I don't do that
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because I'm very imperfect, >> I feel different. I don't feel energized. The the day goes a bit
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sluggish. So morning routines are important. What about what about yours? >> Is it a Monday to Friday for you or is
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it >> every So even on the weekend, I don't believe in sleepins, you know. I just
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routine is everything. And when you look at the biology, having a sleep in screws
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you up. Like keep to the routine. So even on the weekend, I'm up bright and early. I've got dogs, so they're a cat,
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so they're at the door like feed us. Let's go for a walk. I've got no excuses
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to to sleep in. Matt, >> you you asked what about mine? Um I I love sleeping in a I love I love like
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waking up fresh and then rolling over and sleeping in, especially when it's um
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raining outside like it is now. Um, but I I find the the busier I get, like in the past year, I've set up this um
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business called Pod Lab, where this is the studio we're sitting in now. So, I
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do my podcast here. We help make podcasts for other people. In order to get everything done that I want to get
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done professionally and personally, I just need to get up earlier. >> So, it's non-negotiable.
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>> Yeah. And and well, it makes sense if you get up at 5:00 a.m. like you're
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doing, you just you get a jump on the day. You have a couple of, you know, a couple of hours ahead of everyone else.
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compounding time. That's 5 hours a week, 20 hours a month. >> You get months and years back of your
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life. >> And I go to bed early, you know? So, I'm in bed quarter to 9, maybe quarter past
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at latest, reading, journaling, meditating. So, I book end the day with the same boring stuff. And when people
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look at high performers, it's you know, when I sit down with you some of the
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great guests you've sat down with, their routines are boring as hell. >> But that's what creates results. M and
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um was that were we going through the seven truths in your book? Was was that one just do the work? Was that focus on
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your priorities? >> Yes. So focus on your priorities. Yeah. >> Okay. And last one, take no shortcuts.
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>> Yes. So delayed gratification is the key. We were just chatting with one of
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your incredible colleagues about his generation, Gen Z. And I've got, you know, a Gen A child. Uh so delay
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gratification is something they're going to have to embrace. Why? They're in a
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world that moves fast. They're in a world that you can download anything and
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everything. You can watch Tik Tok things that will teach you how to do anything.
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That's not where great success is found. It's found in going slow. It's found in
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taking those shortcuts. Reverse engineering success. Get clear on what you really want. That was the very first
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one. And then reverse engineer it. >> Anything I bet you've ever done, you've
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got I want to go to that marathon. >> Okay, it's on this date. I'm going to
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run with Kipogi >> and I've got to reverse engineer and go tomorrow we'll do 3ks, then five, then
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10. >> Everything is the same. There's no shortcuts to success. I've I'm yet to
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see it. >> Yeah. I think that's one thing I love about the um the discipline of marathon
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running. >> I get people asking me all the time like how to do it and you know what's the
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longest run they should do? And I'm like you you can get by on minimal training
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but it's going to be a horrible horrible day. If you want to half enjoy the day
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um you want to sort of train relatively properly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But yeah, everything's instant.
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How old are you? >> I'm 39 almost 40. >> Man according to my child.
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>> I'm 52. I like I remember a life without >> you're looking damn good man.
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>> I remember a life with like pre- internet everything's at your fingertips
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now. E that instant gratification piece. There's very little things in life now
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that involve delayed gratification. >> But the best you look at Arthur C. Brooks and he wrote an amazing uh book
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called Build the Life You Want. Him and Oprah Winfrey co-authored it. And he said we all want happiness. Doesn't
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matter who we are. We actually all want to feel happy. He said in my research there's three things that help us be
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happy. One, the pursuit of enjoyment. So, doing fun things, having hobbies, hanging out, you know, have the beer
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with your best mate, whatever it might be. The the pursuit of satisfaction. And we only get satisfaction when we do hard
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things. So, take the stairs. >> Got the elevator. Nice. But when you go 12 floors up and walk out the elevator,
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there's no sense of satisfaction. But you do the 12 flights of stairs, you're
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tired, you're sweating, and you feel satisfied. The last but not least, in the pursuit of meaning or purpose. So
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those three things, if we are doing one of those three things, he says we feel happy when we're doing it. So always
00:15:01
take the stairs. Don't take shortcuts. >> I love that. I am a stair climber.
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>> There you go. I see that. You look great. You know, >> my girlfriend hates it. Like if we're if
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we're at the event cinema, there's stairs in the middle and then there's
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escalators going up and down. She'll always take take the escalator and I'll
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I'll take the stairs. I've noticed my mom does it as well actually. She's in
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her 70s. >> And has she got good mobility? >> Yeah, she Yeah, she still runs. Yeah.
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>> Does it surprise me? M >> I mean always take the stairs. It will give you a longer life. Chat with a lot
00:15:28
of longevity experts. I want to be here for as long as I can. >> And you know movement, walking, uh
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strength training where you can, yoga, but just move your body. We sit we sit a lot. You and I'll be sitting here for an
00:15:39
hour at least. So after this, I want to go move my body. >> Yeah, 100%. >> So um hey, thanks for sharing those. So
00:15:45
that's um the seven truths of high performers from your new book, Habits of High Performers. Um that's great. If
00:15:51
anyone wants um further detail and drill down on all of them, just buy the [ __ ] book. It's great. Um yeah, what
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does high performance actually mean to you and how is it different from being successful?
00:16:00
>> Oh, great question. So, when I look at high performance, I I need to be able to
00:16:04
define that. So, I work with people, whether they're corporates or athletes,
00:16:08
how do we define high performance? Well, for me, it's easy. Consistently exceeding norms whilst maintaining
00:16:13
healthy relationships and well-being. that last part of it, I didn't care about it in the first. Like when I was
00:16:20
going towards trying to win world championships, all I wanted to do was win. I didn't give a damn about my
00:16:24
health and my relationships were definitely second. And so I was winning world championships, but my
00:16:31
relationships were doing this and my marriage ended in divorce. >> So that's not high performance. That's
00:16:36
winning in one part of your life, >> right? >> Cuz you sort of had a onetrack mind.
00:16:39
>> 100%. Radical obsession is what I would call it. I wanted to win the world. I
00:16:44
wanted to win the world. and I would work harder than anyone. I'd go go into
00:16:48
the dark, do the work, tell nobody, practice. And they came at a cost. So that's what I would say high performance
00:16:54
is being able to achieve your goals whilst maintaining not perfect, but healthy relationships and well-being.
00:17:01
They're going to be tough times. They're going to be crap times, but get them
00:17:04
back to being healthy again. >> So that's that's high performance. And I
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guess success is very contextual. Everyone's got their own definition of that. I think spending less time on Tik
00:17:13
Tok and Instagram is good. I look at that and I'm like, God, I don't have
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Dom's followers. Like, ah, you know, that doesn't make me feel great. But
00:17:20
then I go, well, Dom's running. That's inspiring. I I'll look at that stuff.
00:17:23
That's awesome. >> Cuz there's a lot of people like listening to this or watching this that
00:17:26
that might be successful in their eyes or other people's eyes, and they're
00:17:30
probably like, "Well, I'm not getting up at 5:00 a.m. and drinking lemon water."
00:17:33
>> Yeah. And neither should they. They should define it for themselves. >> Yeah.
00:17:36
>> Yeah. I'm not a big believer in prescribing people. And, you know, I'd
00:17:39
rather have followers than disciples, you know. Like I want people to make up their own mind of what great looks like
00:17:44
to them. That's what's most important. >> Yeah, 100%. I love that. Hey, so let's
00:17:49
go back and we'll learn a bit bit learn a little bit more about you and your
00:17:53
backstory um and how you ended up in this um career path and then we'll go back to some tips that everyone else can
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use. So you're from Northern Ireland? >> Yes. Have you been? >> No. No. I've never been to Ireland or
00:18:05
Scotland. Love to go. Love to go. >> Dom, we got to get you across there. It's gorgeous.
00:18:09
>> I love the Irish people. Yeah. Well, I think Irish people are very similar to
00:18:13
Kiwis. You know, I think the number one trait when I look at my family, particularly my father and my
00:18:16
grandfather, humility is the most important component of being from Northern Ireland. And New Zealand is no
00:18:24
different. Humility is really rated in this country. So, I love that. Growing up in Northern Ireland, I was very aware
00:18:30
there was uh a conflict. There was a divide between Protestants and Catholics. Very, very clear. You know,
00:18:36
some towns had the British flag flying. They were Protestant towns. and the others had the Irish flag flying. They
00:18:41
were Catholic towns and most people would stay in their own towns. Uh but it would flare up. There'd be violence.
00:18:47
There'd be kneecappings. There would be bombs, petrol bombs, bomb scares at your
00:18:50
supermarket. It was a very interesting childhood. And I wanted to get out from a very young age. And I love my family
00:18:58
and I miss them. But I wanted to get out. I wanted to travel. And I was a little [ __ ] at primary school. And thank
00:19:06
God for my headmaster who just turned 80 recently, Mr. Pollock. He said, "Boy,
00:19:10
enough's enough. You've got two options. A wicked detention for what you've done
00:19:15
or a set of drumsticks." And he throws these drumsticks at me. I go, "What's
00:19:19
the What's the catch, Mr. Pollock?" He went, "No catch. Just a a whole term of
00:19:23
drum lessons. I'll pay for them." Okay, cool. In my mind, I was going to be
00:19:26
Ringo Star, famous rock drummer. I was going to get out of Northern Ireland. I moved to LA. Awesome. 10 weeks past, and
00:19:34
he comes out marching into assembly. There's five or six hundred of us in a skirt. I'm like, "What the hell's my
00:19:39
headmaster doing in a skirt? This is strange." Playing the bag pipes. This is
00:19:44
even stranger. Puts the pipes down. He talks about the tartan kilton. He says, "Where's James Lachland?" I reluctantly
00:19:50
put my hand up. He says, "Stand up." He says, "Folks, this is the newest recruit
00:19:54
for the pipe band." So Dom always read the fine print, my man. I didn't ask
00:19:58
enough questions. Ringo starred are now wearing a skirt. Not so cool at 9 years of age. But he took me aside. and he
00:20:04
says, "Sorry, I didn't give you all the details, but this is a competitive sport
00:20:08
and you can be judged and you can go to championships and I'm quite competitive." So, I was like, I was into
00:20:12
that. >> So, very fortunate. My dad took me along to a bunch of competitions. My mom and
00:20:16
dad, I went to the World Solo Drumming Championships and uh played in the quarterfinals, uh played in the
00:20:22
semi-finals, and then going to the finals. And uh as I'm about to go on, my dad says, "Look, keep your feet in the
00:20:28
ground, mate. You know, don't set yourself up for failure. Just do your best. You might not win this." And I'm
00:20:33
thinking, well, if I go in thinking like that, I've lost already. >> And what he didn't know is I'd stolen my
00:20:38
cousin's cassette tapes of Tony Robbins. So, I was listen to these mindset things
00:20:43
and you have to believe in yourself. >> What age? >> Uh, stole those at about 11.
00:20:48
>> That's interesting, isn't it? >> I got nervous. I think nerves were a big
00:20:51
part and I still experience nerves. M >> and so I wanted to >> No, but I mean that's that's interesting
00:20:56
that um you'd be attracted to, you know, self-work, selfm motivation, cassette
00:21:01
tapes at the age of 11. >> Yeah. And I I bought the inner game of it was called the inner game of music,
00:21:06
but Timothy Gway also wrote the inner game of tennis, inner game of golf, all about mindset. I wanted more than
00:21:13
anything like I was radically clear. I want to win the world championships. Like if I'm going to do this, I want to
00:21:18
be the best at it. And I just looked for anything and everything to help me. And
00:21:22
I knew that my mindset wasn't strong. I knew that I was nervous and I would break down and I'd get sweaty hands and
00:21:26
>> so yeah, I just started looking for options and found this big cassette tape
00:21:30
collection, >> started geeking out on it >> and uh yeah, at 13 I was fortunate to
00:21:35
win the World Solo Juvenile Championships. Uh the the game the following year that's where things got
00:21:40
exciting like I got a call from Christ Church New Zealand. I had no idea where New Zealand was. I said I put the hand
00:21:45
over the phone. Dad, where's New Zealand? I had no idea. Do they speak English there? Like where is it? And so
00:21:51
they uh yeah had an opportunity to come down here and that's I guess that's the
00:21:54
next part of the journey. >> One one question I've got stuck in my back of my the back of my mind is um so
00:22:00
when you were attracted to drumming why Ringo star and not say Larry Mullen Jr. >> Ah I just thought Ringo was a legend. I
00:22:07
think I want to be like that guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> He drives nice cars and he's pretty
00:22:11
cool. >> Yeah. That's true. That's true. So what does it mean to how do you how do you
00:22:15
become the the world's best drummer in a like a a Scottish pipe band? >> Yeah. Yeah, there's two two types, two
00:22:21
approaches. One's a solo champion, so by yourself, and then one's a drum core, so
00:22:25
it's like a drum line, like American's high school drum line type thing. So,
00:22:28
you can win one or both of those. Uh, you're adjudicated a bit like figure skating where you'll get up and perform.
00:22:34
Uh, the accompanist will be a bagpiper, and it's very intricate, very detailed.
00:22:38
So, a lot like Phil Collins, for example, uh would come to pipe band drummers and learn how to become a
00:22:43
better technician. And of course, he's one of the world's greatest drummers,
00:22:45
but he knows that pipe band drumming is very technical. So, a lot of repetition,
00:22:49
a lot of practice on the basics. So, you get up, you perform, it's anywhere between four and eight minutes, and
00:22:54
you'd have several thousand moves and dynamic articulations, uh, with a slight bit of sweat or a bit
00:23:00
of nerves that turns to mush pretty quick. Uh, and so you're adjudicated with a panel of judges and, uh, yeah,
00:23:06
way you go. You either come first or not so much. So, I I lost a lot more than I
00:23:10
won. I'll tell you that, Dom. Oh, like all champions, it's like like like any
00:23:14
sport. If you look at the NBA like top scoring list, there's the names that you'd suspect up there. There's, you
00:23:19
know, Kobe, LeBron, MJ. Um, but they're also on the the list of the, you know,
00:23:24
the NBA players that have taken the most shots and lost as well. >> Yeah, 100%. You've got to be in it to
00:23:28
win it. >> So, yeah, being the best in the world in anything is it's pretty cool.
00:23:34
>> Yeah, it was when I was 13 and I won, I thought it was pretty awesome. It was um
00:23:37
it was it was a bit of a life-changing moment to go, okay, I can pick something. I can stick to it. I can
00:23:43
really practice hard and take a bit of time and get an outcome that's positive.
00:23:48
So, from that point onwards, it really changed the direction of my ambitions >> and my life. It was Yeah, it was I was
00:23:53
lucky. >> Yeah. What did drumming save you from? >> Well, you know, a couple of friends, uh
00:23:58
lads in my town I went through primary school with, you know, by their late teens, uh they're in wheelchairs. Uh so
00:24:06
back in Northern Ireland um if young men misbehaved and uh the paramilitaries caught on to
00:24:14
it and weren't happy with it, they would kneecap them. So they'd take them to an
00:24:17
industrial estate, shotgun, remove both knees. And so this had happened to a number of young men in my small town and
00:24:24
it happened all over Northern Ireland. And I wanted to just get away from all that. And there are many family members
00:24:32
I've got that are living a lovely peaceful life there. But certainly, you know, I was at the pub a lot. I was
00:24:38
drinking a hell of a lot in my late teens. Mom and dad had just divorced. I used it as an excuse to hang out with my
00:24:42
uncle and drink way too much beer on a Saturday. And I wasn't hanging out with
00:24:46
a great crowd for the most part. And so my pathway was not looking pretty. Uh New Zealand uh and Canada uh both were
00:24:54
things that helped shape my my direction. >> Did you Google how often does
00:24:58
kneecapping happen in New Zealand? >> I might do that now. I figured New Zealand looks pretty peaceful. hadn't
00:25:04
watched until I'd been here for a year. I hadn't watched Once We're Warriors and
00:25:07
then I watched that going, "Oh, Christ." There is that It that happens here in
00:25:11
New Zealand in a different way. But every country has its challenges, right? >> So, how old were you were you how old
00:25:16
were you when you moved to Christ? >> Uh, I was 19. So, yeah, I'd moved to
00:25:20
Canada initially to Simon Fraser University in Vancouver. Had a pipe band of all things. They were the world's
00:25:25
best. So, I got to go there for a summer. Then a call from Christ Church and uh an invitation to come down and
00:25:31
work with a couple of bands. uh one in particular wanted to win the world championships and be the first ever from
00:25:36
New Zealand. So I was pretty interested in that and it was 12,000 miles from Northern Ireland. So I thought this
00:25:40
would be a good chance to live away from home. >> Why not Scotland? Why don't you end up
00:25:44
in Scotland? >> So that's the um the hub of um pipe bands. >> Interestingly I had two options. So two
00:25:50
invitations. One was Simon F University Canada. The other was Field Marshall Montgomery in Lisburn just outside
00:25:57
Belfast Northern Ireland. So 25 minute drive was the world's best band and then
00:26:02
Vancouver, Canada was the other best band. So I decided to get out, travel. Scotland's still too close to home for
00:26:08
me. So I went to Canada, got a taste for the Commonwealth, got a taste for living
00:26:12
a different life. And so I just thought New Zealand looked like an awesome option.
00:26:17
>> So what year was that that you moved here? >> 2005. So it's 20 years now.
00:26:22
>> Oh, so you moved to New Zealand other Who do you know here? >> So when I moved, I didn't really know
00:26:27
anyone. Uh I had a distant cousin who had moved here uh but he was 20 years my senior and doing his own thing. I moved
00:26:33
to Christ Church and it was the pipe band community. It was the amazing pipe band community and St. Andrews College.
00:26:38
They took me and they adopted me and I was able to stay with people. Uh they put me up. I was very fortunate. So was
00:26:44
like I arrived and had a massive community and Kiwis are like that. Come on, stay with me and we'll we'll hook
00:26:50
you up and we'll take you for a beer and you know I felt right at home. I didn't
00:26:53
feel any homesickness at all. I would never have. You found your tribe >> 100%. Kiwi tribe.
00:26:59
>> Yeah. Oh, that's really cool. What about transferable skills? Um, you know, how
00:27:03
did the discipline of competitive pipe band drumming shape your leadership approach?
00:27:07
>> Oh my god, so interesting. I had such self-doubt and I'm sure there's
00:27:10
listeners and viewers with the same thing. You've been in a career for x amount of years and you go, "What else
00:27:16
can I do? Can I do anything else? Would would I be appealing?" So, I got to like
00:27:20
30 and realized if I break an arm, like my drumming career is over. So I was James who played.
00:27:26
>> You could join D flip but >> yeah true. Yeah that's very true. Get
00:27:29
the one arm drummer. I like that. Hey and move over mate. I like it. But I got worried. I got you know I just became a
00:27:37
dad at 30 and thought well my number one thing is I got to provide certainty. Got
00:27:41
to have put food on the table. So I went to Tago Polytech >> and they have this thing called a
00:27:46
bachelor of applied management and it allows you to look back over your life and get a degree uh in your chosen
00:27:52
field. So for me it was management, leadership, project management and uh I was able to unpack the the little retail
00:27:59
business I had built uh the the individuals and the bands that I had helped go from where they were here to
00:28:04
winning the world championships. And so it allowed me to see there's a lot of
00:28:07
transferable skills um you know discipline, focus, setting clear goals, reverse engineering success, teamwork,
00:28:14
camaraderie, building culture. If you don't have those things, you mean you're
00:28:18
not getting the results. So yeah, I learned those the hard way over many years. Yeah, it's funny that you say
00:28:23
that cuz I found that with people uh that have come on my podcast as well. If someone's good at one thing, that's it's
00:28:28
not a fluke. >> Um and they're generally going to be good at something else because they've
00:28:31
got the the tools in the toolbox. >> Success leaves clues, right? >> Yeah, 100%. When you're uh looking at
00:28:38
for yourself, you know, with running, >> you look at a great runner, a running
00:28:40
coach, they're they're able to apply those lessons often in other parts of
00:28:44
their lives as well. You know, Kip Chugi, I would say, probably has a pretty successful life. M
00:28:48
>> you know Sam Whitlock I know intimately very successful life great family his
00:28:52
kids love him his wife loves him his greater family deeply respect him yet he's able to get up do the bizo and
00:28:57
perform at the very highest levels so I think people who know what the success formula is apply across all areas of
00:29:03
their life >> yeah Sam Whitlock the most kept all black of all times I think is
00:29:08
>> 153 caps yeah >> yeah is is he a friend or a client or was he a client that became a friend how
00:29:12
do you know him intimately bit of both uh so Chalky Carr introduced us chalk is an incredible human who sadly passed
00:29:18
away too young, pancreatic cancer. So he was a logistics manager in the All Blacks and uh Sam was a new dad, I was a
00:29:23
new dad. So Freddy and my Finn are very similar age. He said, "I'll introduce
00:29:27
you to Sam. You know, you're doing a lot of thinking about being a new dad." And
00:29:30
so I just I met Sam, got to know him and then he joined my mastermind, which is like a round table of leaders from
00:29:36
different industries for four months. So he'd turn up every couple of weeks and
00:29:39
we chat and share and challenge each other. And uh after that became a friend and yeah, I deeply respect Sam. Yeah.
00:29:45
Yeah. Have you had him on the show? >> No. I'd love him on the show, though.
00:29:49
>> Let's make that happen. We've got to get Sam Whitlock on the show.
00:29:51
>> Okay. I mean, yeah. Pick pick the brains of someone like him with all he's been
00:29:56
through and um he's just a like a a well of knowledge, isn't he? >> Oh, he is. And a well of humility.
00:30:02
>> Yeah. >> You know, with what he's done and what he's won, you would never know it.
00:30:05
>> So low key. >> Yeah. And that's I mean, that's why we respect people like that.
00:30:08
>> Yeah. Would he even want to do something like a podcast? Or is he like a mour
00:30:12
where just rather not? I'd rather do anything than talk about himself. >> He doesn't like talking about himself,
00:30:17
that's for sure. But Sam would it'll take a bit of time. So it took me about
00:30:20
3 years to finally get him on my pod. Uh but I'm sure we could we could work on
00:30:24
him. >> That's good. I've got a number of guests like that too that I've played the long
00:30:27
game with. >> Good. Always play the long game, man. >> Yeah. So, oh, so what was the retail
00:30:33
business you had when you Yeah, cuz obviously um playing the drums in a pipe band even at the highest level is not
00:30:38
going to pay the bills and put food on the table, is it? >> No. >> So, what are you doing? What was your
00:30:41
business? >> They're selling drums. So, all over Southeast Asia, Australasia selling
00:30:45
drums, drumsticks, drum heads, drum accessories. So, I thought, how can I build a a business out of this passion
00:30:50
of mine? >> Uh, so that's Yeah, that was a big focus for many years. >> So, how long were you in Christ Church
00:30:55
before the um the devastating earthquakes happened? Like five years. Six years. >> A little. Yeah, six years. Yeah.
00:31:01
>> [ __ ] How was that? >> Unbelievable. Yeah. You know, the first one, middle of the night, I was like,
00:31:05
"What the hell is this?" And within about 20 seconds of it shaking, I was
00:31:09
like, "I remember in geography in Northern Ireland talking about earthquakes." And we talked about
00:31:13
getting under desks. And so, I just got up and my partner at the time, I was like, "Get up. Like, let's move to the
00:31:18
doorframe." And honestly, Dom, it was hell for months because every single aftershock of the thousands of
00:31:25
aftershocks, I was thinking, is this another big one? And of course in February the next big one came. I was
00:31:31
teaching at St. Andrews at the time in a really old rickety building which thankfully has now been demolished. And
00:31:36
uh he had a young student there at the time and they went to run out and had to grab them by the leg and literally drag
00:31:42
them under the table because the building was horrific. They were running right through the building. So we sat
00:31:48
under the table until it stopped and out we went. And after that things turned to
00:31:52
custard for months m for everyone you know work home insurance I went back to Canada with my partner at
00:32:00
the time thinking maybe we should be living in Canada but going back there and drawing up a pros and cons list even
00:32:06
with the damn earthquakes wanted to go back to Christ Church. >> It's just a great city. I'm glad I
00:32:11
stayed. So I don't know if you've been down recently but it's looking awesome.
00:32:14
>> Oh every time I go down there something's different. Something's
00:32:17
changed. There's still big buildings here that need to be demolished that haven't been demolished though. City.
00:32:22
Yeah. It's crazy how long it takes to rebuild after something like that. And
00:32:26
how did you find it when all the Irish came over to help with the rebuild? Weren't they spreading STI everywhere?
00:32:31
Was that just living legend? >> No, I did see that that same news article that those Irish men were down
00:32:35
here doing silly things and get getting silly things that they didn't come with.
00:32:38
Yes, I did see that. Wasn't proud of that, but I thought it was great. Yeah,
00:32:42
a lot more Irish influx. And yeah, actually weirdly I found out two years ago I moved to Littleton and I move in
00:32:48
and one of my clients emails me going, "You need to meet my uh Northern Irish
00:32:52
lawyer. He lives in Littleton." I said, "Oh, cool." Send us we email connect us
00:32:56
emails and I get the phone number, ring him up. I says, "Gareth. Gareth Glint
00:32:59
Denning." He went, "Yeah." I says, "Belair High School." He went, "One and
00:33:03
only." I went, "It's James Lachland." I said, "I just got your number from
00:33:06
Brett." I said, "You live in Littleton?" He went, "Yeah." So we went to school
00:33:09
together. No idea he was in New Zealand. I says, "Where do you live?" He says,
00:33:12
"On Day Road." So do I. We're one house apart and we'd never known. And he comes up the the
00:33:18
road and has a wee boy on his shoulders. Who's this wee fella? Is it a little
00:33:21
son? He says, "This is Finn." Same name as my son. So we hadn't seen each other
00:33:24
in 20 plus years and never knew where each other went and living one door apart. So I was glad that the Irishman
00:33:30
came. He's a lawyer. He's not a builder, but um >> yeah. The the Christ Church earthquakes
00:33:35
um I mean the mental health impact it had on a lot of residents of the city is um just massive. Yeah. How was it for
00:33:43
you personally? >> It's the first time I ever went and had therapy. >> Yeah.
00:33:46
>> After that, you know, as you say that, I took a big breath. Um I wasn't diagnosed
00:33:51
with PTSD, but the certainly the symptoms I was having uh were PTSDesque. Uh so very stressed, drinking a [ __ ] ton
00:34:02
of alcohol, eating crap food, uh constantly ruminating, worrying. Yeah. I mean, I look at my mindset and all the
00:34:09
work that I've done on it, and it's the the field that I'm in. And even with all
00:34:13
that, like when the earth moves and you don't have that certainty, God, it it
00:34:17
just shakes you to the core. Um, >> well, you realize how insignificant you
00:34:21
are. There's nothing you can do. >> Totally. >> You're at the mercy of mother nature.
00:34:25
>> Yeah. It's very humbling. >> Yeah. I hope we've done our dash with
00:34:28
that and Christ Church can move on. >> Yeah. The um Yeah. How was the therapy
00:34:33
experience for you? >> Interesting. >> Uh sometimes I think in my younger years, I
00:34:39
was a bit skeptical. I didn't want to be labeled. I think that there's a danger
00:34:42
when we label people with things and say you've got this or you are this. Sometimes it's more a response. So
00:34:48
post-traumatic stress response rather than maybe a disorder. Depends on the the individual. Uh so for me it was
00:34:55
liberating. It introduced me to breath work. So that was 2011. And so I started to dive into breath work and uh realize
00:35:02
that it's an amazing world and it helps me with turbulence. I hate turbulence
00:35:06
and I'm sure you're the same, but I fly a lot and it's just it's not fun. So I
00:35:10
use that uh being a parent I get overwhelmed sometimes. Use breath work. >> Yeah. In in simple terms for anyone
00:35:16
that's hearing this phrase for the first time now um yeah how do you describe
00:35:20
breath work? >> Yeah. So our body gets stressed our body responds to things externally. So when
00:35:26
with the athletes I work with they they are responding to on the field they are responding to media social media and it
00:35:33
impacts their their nervous system. So essentially we want to be in a parasympathetic nervous system uh where
00:35:38
we are in a state of relaxation but often when we're stressed it's our sympathetic nervous system that fires up
00:35:45
so our breathing becomes shallow uh we start to sweat heart rate goes up I experience all of those things and so do
00:35:53
you. We all have both states >> but knowing how to trigger them and turn them on or turn them off is key. So with
00:35:59
rugby players I talk about tap on tap off. You need to know when to turn it on, when to turn it off. So for me, Dom,
00:36:05
if I'm about to go on stage and speak, I will look at my my watch and my heart
00:36:10
rate will be 110 to 125 just standing still. Like, God, I'm worked up. I'm
00:36:14
excited. Like I'm I don't call it nerves anymore. I call it excitement. >> And so I go to a toilet, sit down, and
00:36:21
breathe. And I'll just do extended exhales. So >> right away, I feel different. That's one
00:36:32
breath. Do that for 90 seconds. I'll look down. I'm 90 beats per minute, 80
00:36:36
beats per minute. Heart rate will be starting to to go down. >> And I can think better. I can operate
00:36:40
with better decisiveness. So, there's lots of different types of breath work.
00:36:44
Wimhof will get you fired up. Uh box breathing that the Navy Seals and SAS would use will get you focused and it's
00:36:52
just breathing in for four counts, hold for four, out for four, hold for four. And then the one that really gets you to
00:36:59
relax is just extending your exhale. Make sure it's longer than your inhale.
00:37:03
So I do that a lot on turbulent flights. That's for sure. >> It's great. What's your relationship
00:37:08
like with nerves? I think nerves are kind of good. They show you they show you care. They can give you an edge.
00:37:13
>> 100%. When you're no longer nervous, it's time to give up. So I experienced
00:37:19
that with drumming. It was my passion. It's all I did. I drumed hours a day. I
00:37:22
was fortunate to to win what I did. But it got to the point where I was just like ah we'll be fine.
00:37:27
>> I was bored and the nerves were no longer there. It's like we're going to
00:37:31
probably win the world champion national championships. And it wasn't this kind
00:37:34
of arrogance thing but in internal I was like we are so well prepared. We've got
00:37:38
so much depth a bit like you know canary rugby some people might not like me saying that but for years the depth
00:37:44
that's allowed them to do what they do. You have this kind of confidence but
00:37:47
that confidence turned to complacency for me >> and I lost my edge and I no longer
00:37:52
wanted to perform. I didn't perform very well and so it was time to find something that got me nervous. So
00:37:58
there's this idea of performing under pressure. I think that's BS. If you're
00:38:02
performing under pressure, so let's say Dom Harvey's got pressure and then we
00:38:06
add a bit more and we add a bit more. Eventually Dom's going to implode. The
00:38:11
best thing I do with clients is get them to reframe that. Perform with pressure,
00:38:17
not under it, but with it. Bring it alongside. Accept the pressure. Make space for it. Say, "Hey, welcome."
00:38:24
Actually talk to your nerves. Welcome. Good to see you. I'm glad you're here.
00:38:27
>> Take a breath. Let's go. We're going to do this. You know, there's a acceptance
00:38:31
and commitment. Accept that you're nervous and then commit to doing your thing anyway.
00:38:35
>> Yeah. >> It's important. >> Thanks for that. And um who's your wife?
00:38:40
Did you marry a Kiwi? >> So, actually, I married a Canadian, right? >> And so, we've parted away since. Uh but
00:38:45
my partner is Caroline. She's from South Africa. So, yeah. No, no Kiwi. >> Oh, so you're on to marriage number two?
00:38:51
Yes. So, not married yet, but uh that could happen in the future. >> Right. Right.
00:38:54
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, spoiler alert. >> Yeah. Caroline, if you're listening to
00:38:58
this one. >> So, what happened to the first one? Um >> Dom, I love these like direct questions.
00:39:04
Give me it. >> Yeah. Oh, no, no, no. I'm I'm just thinking like there'll be some people
00:39:08
listening to this going, "Well, you know, if you're if you're a high
00:39:10
performer and you're focused on success, then you know, how do you cope with a
00:39:14
with a a massive perceived or otherwise failure like that?" >> Yeah. I like it because it is a failure.
00:39:20
like we can't dance around it. Like the marriage failed and I was with a mentor
00:39:25
of mine and he was able to ask me something. It's right around the separation period. He was able to ask me
00:39:31
something that nobody else had asked. Best friends, brother, dad, uncle. He said, "James,
00:39:38
what responsibility do what responsibility do you take?" >> James, what did you learn about
00:39:44
yourself? Hey, James, what part did you play in the failure? Like, whoa, bang, bang, bang. He's like, give me it. I
00:39:50
said, "Man, I need to think about that. That's a lot." So, I took like a month
00:39:53
to reflect. And there's a lot of learnings because I was obsessively focused on winning and performing. I
00:40:02
wasn't obsessively focused on nurturing relationships, nurturing health. It was
00:40:08
way out of whack. And so, that separation taught me a lot. There was a lot of introspection. There's a lot of
00:40:16
lonely moments. Uh yeah, I mean I look back on that and go that failure is arguably the biggest teacher, the
00:40:25
biggest teacher I've had. Um made me get in touch with my values. What do I value? You know, how important are those
00:40:32
values? How do they shape the next step, the next relationship? I'm very thankful
00:40:37
uh for my former wife. We've got a great relationship. We are epic co-parents and
00:40:43
Finn's bonus mom, Caroline. The three of us work so well together and I'm proud
00:40:47
of that. We've always worked well together. We've maintained a good great
00:40:51
connection. So I think that there's uh happy even after. You know that whole
00:40:57
happily ever after. There's happy even after. Even after a separation it can be
00:41:01
good. And unfortunately it's not the same for everyone. I I get that. So I'm
00:41:06
really fortunate that she decided to say let's stay friends and respect each
00:41:10
other. And it's better for Finn. That's for sure. >> Sh. I love that so much actually. Um, a
00:41:15
therapist said the same thing to me once like in in any situation, ask yourself,
00:41:19
you know, what was my role in this? >> Um, yeah, and there's there's a book by
00:41:24
Jock Willink called Extreme Ownership, which is the same the same sort of thing. It's in any situation, just
00:41:29
owning your [ __ ] and owning what you can out of it. It's um, it's really powerful
00:41:33
because it's very easy to blame the other person for everything. >> It totally is. And you and I spoke off
00:41:38
air beforehand like the person that you're now separated with because let's
00:41:41
face it 50% of the people listening are either have been through a separation or
00:41:45
will go through it. Statistically that's what's going to happen. >> So for you to be able to go actually at
00:41:51
one point I loved them. I seen a lot of positive in them. So to always remember that and look for the little bit of
00:41:58
goodness because at the end of the day we are all good inside >> and sometimes we get a bit rough and
00:42:02
rugged on the outside and get a bit stressed or overwhelmed but everyone's good inside. M
00:42:08
yeah. Yeah. It's just about finding that thing. It's [ __ ] tough though, right?
00:42:11
It sucks. And um yeah, you'd be well aware that, you know, you learn more from your failures than your successes.
00:42:16
But um failure is never fun at the time. >> Failure sucks. Falling on your face.
00:42:21
>> Never enjoyable. >> It's [ __ ] >> And when you're going through it, you
00:42:24
can't say, "I'm going to learn a lot from this and it's going to be valuable
00:42:26
a couple of years from now." >> No. When I went through that, I was going, I need to have some more alcohol.
00:42:30
I need to get through this. And Don, it's been 5 and a half years no alcohol.
00:42:33
Um and that's been great. Uh but for me that was my coping mechanism. So I think
00:42:38
I've learned a lot about how I cope and I coped pretty poorly and that was not a
00:42:43
high performance approach and I'm learning to do better and uh give myself a break and just try to be a bit better
00:42:49
each day. >> Yeah. Oh, good on you. What what was the catalyst for stopping the booze?
00:42:52
>> Um Caroline, my amazing partner, she was out for a run. Uh she's a bit like you.
00:42:57
Loves to run often and I think she was listening to Rich Roll and he was talking about uh one year no beer. So
00:43:03
she came home. was drink co and she came back in and uh she said uh I think I'm
00:43:08
going to do one year no alcohol. I laugh good luck with that. That sucks. Like I'll support you but I'm not going to be
00:43:14
doing that. >> I exactly this is my identity right. So she says okay. So that night we're
00:43:21
sitting watching Game of Thrones and I says you know what as I'm drinking my
00:43:25
wine I think I'm going to join you. I'll do one you know beer. My justifications
00:43:30
said I'm Irish. I like that's a problem. So I says, "But we've got two bottles of
00:43:34
red wine and a bottle of gin in the cupboard. We're not wasting those. Let's
00:43:37
get those drunk." So over the next 48 hours, those disappeared. And I had a
00:43:41
mega hangover. And I sat down, Dom and I just wrote, why? I've done 30 days, no
00:43:45
alcohol. I've done the dry July, no alcohol. Thought, why do I want to do a whole year? And so I wrote a list. I
00:43:52
want to be a more present dad. I want to be a more patient partner. I want to be
00:43:55
healthier. I'd like to live to 90 and not die of some kind of liver thing. you
00:44:00
know, I'd like to be clearer in my thinking. I'd like to be better for my
00:44:03
clients. Just wrote out a massive old list and then one day at a time, stuck at it and got to year one, went out for
00:44:09
a beautiful dinner with Caroline, just said, "Should we order a bottle of don
00:44:12
or bottle of mole?" >> He goes, "Yeah, let's have a look." And
00:44:16
then the waiter come over. I say, "Could I have two handkeros, please?" Just no
00:44:20
desire. Lost the appetite for it >> and learned how to have fun and socialize and do all those things
00:44:25
without it. And >> honestly, I feel way better for it. way clearer, happier, more patient, all
00:44:30
those things I wanted. I'm finally starting to see. >> Well, the the life that you're living
00:44:34
now, uh, like getting up at 5:00 a.m., you just you're not doing that if you're
00:44:39
drinking, are you? You just can't you can't do both. >> No. >> Something's got to give.
00:44:43
>> Um, you I was talking to someone about this the other day, like the the um the
00:44:46
0% beers now are really good. Like Asah's got a great one. He zero is amazing.
00:44:50
>> Garage Project. >> Yeah. You you if you're going out drinking beers, you might drink seven,
00:44:55
eight, nine, 10, whatever. You're never going to go out and drink like 10k and
00:44:59
zeros. >> God help you if you do. You know, I drink one of those bad boys, maybe one
00:45:03
and a half and you're like, I'm done with that. It's It's amazing. Why is
00:45:06
that? >> Well, it's the alcohol, isn't it? >> Exactly. It's addictive, right?
00:45:09
>> It's the dopamine system. That hormone fires up going, I want another one of
00:45:12
those. I want another one of those. I feel good until you don't. >> Yeah. And just so we're clear, I'm I'm
00:45:17
like I'm I'm still a drinker, but I'm constantly uh reassessing and keeping an
00:45:21
eye on my relationship with alcohol. just that there's things there's things
00:45:25
I want to get done and they they can't sort of coexist. >> I agree. I think that's it's a unique
00:45:30
for everyone. I don't want to be that preachy guy that goes you should never
00:45:32
drink alcohol. I'm just like just doesn't work for me. I have a better relationship without it. But I've also
00:45:36
got great friends, family members and clients who have a great relationship and balance it and it's not negative. So
00:45:41
yeah, self-control. >> So in terms of um adversity, so there's the marriage breakup. Um there's the the
00:45:49
earthquakes which you're not alone with. like thousands of people um endured them
00:45:54
um and I think the impacts are still being felt to this day internally with people um and um and you've lost a baby
00:46:01
as well. >> Yes. Yeah. Actually um that was before Finn >> uh miscarriage and I'd heard the word
00:46:07
miscarriage before and as a man like we don't talk about miscarriages like why
00:46:12
would we do that? uh but had a miscarriage prefin and didn't really appreciate just the impact it had. And I
00:46:21
remember calling my boss at the time and I couldn't even speak. I I just in tears
00:46:26
I couldn't I couldn't get a word out. And that's very unusual for me. I'm
00:46:29
usually pretty calm and collected, but I I just couldn't I couldn't get my head
00:46:34
around it. And you know, still thinking back on that, there's still emotion there. I don't think that emotion will
00:46:39
ever leave. Um, and that I'm one of billions of people that have been through this, but yet it's something
00:46:46
it's almost like we're told not to talk about it or we're not told to not talk
00:46:50
about it, but we all don't talk about it because it's one of those things. It's
00:46:52
taboo almost. >> We need to talk about it because the mental health challenges that that comes
00:46:58
with, that kind of loss and grieving is is significant. Uh, so I'm really grateful for the people I had around me.
00:47:03
Uh, you know, I know people that went through multiple miscarriages and I just I can't I can't imagine it. So yeah, I
00:47:10
think it's just one of those things we need to talk about. And uh when Finn came along, you know, I was really
00:47:14
grateful, healthy little man. And now he's a cheeky little boy. Uh very grateful for that. But
00:47:20
>> yeah, that was it was very tough. >> Yeah. >> What are the um the biggest lessons from
00:47:24
all these adversities? >> Well, look, I think first things first, like my challenges and adversity are
00:47:32
just mine and they might be worse than some people's and they might be not as
00:47:35
bad as others. I think we've all got our challenges. cuz we can all look back and
00:47:38
go, "Shit, that was a tough time." >> Uh, lessons, keep getting back up. Keep swinging.
00:47:46
Like, if you're not dead, like, try again. >> And my grandfather often says like,
00:47:50
"Life's not a dress rehearsal." I'm grateful that he's still around.
00:47:54
>> Get at it. Get after it. Like, you can't sit and dwell on things and ruminate.
00:47:58
Move on. Move forward. >> So, always have something positive to look forward to. You know, I like to
00:48:03
always have a holiday on the horizon. you know, uh catching up with a friend or a good book. Always have something
00:48:08
positive to get you out of bed and move move towards >> and uh realize that failure is not the
00:48:13
end. >> Like we all we're all screwing up. You and me, we're going to do something
00:48:16
stupid today and screw up. We're going to say something stupid or we're going
00:48:19
to do something. >> That's cool if we're learning. Someone once said to me, "James, how much dumb
00:48:23
tax do you pay?" Like, "What's dumb tax? The hell?" It's when you make a mistake,
00:48:29
you don't learn from it, and you make the same mistake again, and you don't
00:48:32
learn from it. And so you're the guy on the fifth divorce. It's like, dude,
00:48:35
you're paying a lot of dumb tax. >> I've never heard that before. I love it.
00:48:40
>> Yeah. It's simple, but it's like, okay, I got to learn from my stupid shitty
00:48:43
mistakes. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Failure should be like a
00:48:47
stepping stone to success. >> You hope so, right? >> You need to figure out what Yeah. what
00:48:51
you can take from it. I love that. I'm going to start using that dumb tax. That's really good. Um Yeah. Um you've
00:48:57
mentioned your son Finn a couple of times and uh you and I are mates on on social media. Um, I probably spend more
00:49:03
time on social media than what you do. Uh, but you seem like a real present dad. Um, you seem really good with your
00:49:08
time management. So, when you're working, you're working. When you got family time, you're having your family
00:49:12
time. Um, was that a turning point for you becoming a dad? >> My god, it was a pivotal point in my
00:49:20
life. Uh, I was very fortunate as a kid to have a great relationship with my dad
00:49:24
and my granddad. And the thought of being a dad, I was like, this is bloody cool. This is this is a joy, a
00:49:28
privilege. And so, I made a choice when Finn came along. I resigned and retired from competitive drumming within about
00:49:35
six to 12 months because I knew what it took to do that at that level and I don't want to be that dad. I knew many
00:49:40
dads who were very competitive drummers and many of them a large percentage were
00:49:44
not present >> present with their kids at all. So >> I really made a decision to go look I
00:49:49
want to be with Finn. I want him when he's 30 to go I had a good dad. I don't
00:49:52
need to be a great dad. I don't need need to be the best dad or the world's
00:49:55
best dad. I don't need those titles. But for him to go nah he was a good dad.
00:49:58
>> That would be awesome. >> So I spent a lot of time thinking about
00:50:01
that. done. Even when I'm traveling about Finn and >> you know, should I say yes to the gig?
00:50:05
Should I say no to the gig? Am I willing to sacrifice the thing to make sure I'm
00:50:09
present for his important things? His important things are different than mine. >> And so, yeah, it's a tough balance and
00:50:15
it's it's never easy. God, as a parent, any parent listening to this will know
00:50:18
it's bloody tough when you're trying to earn a crust and do what you got to do
00:50:22
and be with your kids and not be distracted by these bloody digital devices. And but um focus on Wii, what's
00:50:29
most important. That's crucial. Did it force you to grow? >> Yeah, exponentially.
00:50:36
>> Yeah. Patience is probably the biggest thing, man. >> I would say my mom could probably attest
00:50:41
this as a young kid, uneasy, like impatient. Like, let's go. Let's do things. Let's let's read a million
00:50:47
things. Let's meet people. Let's have 55 pen pals. Like, just constantly moving
00:50:52
and on edge. I could never settle. And so when things or people weren't moving
00:50:58
at my pace, I get impatient. And I could remember that as a leader, you know, running a drum core, I was impatient.
00:51:04
>> And being a dad taught me like you've got to be patient. If you want love and
00:51:07
connection when they're a teenager, you don't want a rebel. Like you've got to
00:51:11
have that patience from the start. So for me, it's about constantly using the
00:51:15
breath work when I feel like I'm going to be impatient and bringing it back to
00:51:19
what does he need from me? You know, what would being a better dad mean? M >> once a year I've got a little thing on
00:51:24
my calendar. Ask Finn what he needs. So I go, "Finn, what's one thing that would
00:51:28
I could do to be a better dad?" And I give him once a year cuz most kids don't
00:51:31
ever say to be a better dad, you could do. And he thinks about it and he often gives me something really valuable. And
00:51:37
so I like how old is he? >> Nine. Just turn. >> I think at that age like a you know a
00:51:43
newer iPad or >> those things time >> that comes up daily, Don. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:49
I'm very strict on the old screen time. That's for sure. But things like uh
00:51:55
travel, >> you know, dad, I'd really like if you, you know, around December, January, cuz
00:52:02
he's off for 8 weeks, there's less travel. And when I heard that, I was like,
00:52:07
when he's 19, it's too late. >> He's nine. He told me this when he was
00:52:11
seven. I was like, great. So, all of December, I don't travel. And right through to the end of January, I don't
00:52:17
travel. Um because to work, I've got to travel. Uh, but I just have to work differently
00:52:22
>> because I want him to have he's only he's a >> only child. I want him to have the
00:52:26
connection with the people in his family, not feel like his dad's on the road. So, yeah, it's it's a balance.
00:52:31
It's always just trying to strike that balance >> because a lot of people would um do the
00:52:36
travel in December, January, and they'll say, "Oh, you know, I need to put food
00:52:40
on the table. I need to get the lights on it." Which is a nice line. Um, but
00:52:43
the reality is uh it's not always entirely true, is it? >> No, it's not. People can get addicted to
00:52:47
their work, addicted to the drive, the dopamine. >> Yeah. >> Had a weird situation
00:52:52
>> came up in Cape Town >> a few years ago. And so Sia Khesi, Springbox captain, phenomenal human. Him
00:52:59
and his then wife had started a charity called the Kesi Foundation with the goal
00:53:05
of ending gender-based violence in South Africa, which is a huge issue there. And
00:53:12
I was sitting down with the foundation in Cape Town. Caroline was there and they said, "Look, James, we'd like you
00:53:16
to be the MC and host at the Spotify headquarters in London, England, uh, for SEA's new movie. It's going to be
00:53:23
released. We're going to do a screening and we're going to have these special
00:53:25
guests." It's right before the spring box and All Blacks, uh, Twickenham. I'm
00:53:29
like, Christ, like I'm so excited. The old ego kicked in. Like, my god, that's
00:53:33
special. I want to be their Spotify headquarters. Like, see a Kesia, this is brilliant. And so I says, "Look, yes,
00:53:39
I'll do it in principle. Can I just check my calendar?" So feeling really
00:53:44
grateful, really excited, head back to the really quickly to Cape Town, get the old laptop out, look at my work
00:53:49
calendar. Huh, this is interesting. The event that in London is within 24 hours of Finn's
00:53:56
first school production at the town hall in Christ Church. Oh, Christ. And I'm
00:54:01
like, >> FaceTime. >> Yeah, Finn, we need a chat, buddy. I was gutted. So I had a little process
00:54:10
of sleep on it. I'm sure many of our grandparents have just sleep on it before you make the big decision. And
00:54:15
then I've got a really simple quadrant. I call it VPOC. VPOC. Values, priorities,
00:54:22
opportunities, and costs. So what are my values? They don't change. What are my
00:54:26
priorities in order? They don't change. Okay. If I go to this Kesi Foundation
00:54:31
event in London, what are the opportunities that will come from that? What are the costs? Mhm.
00:54:35
>> And then if I go to Finn's production opportunities costs and it became really
00:54:41
apparent. So next morning I email Kesi Foundation say thank you so much. I'm
00:54:45
super excited for this event. However, I can't be there. I've got another commitment and I can't shift it.
00:54:51
And they didn't need to know all the details. It just is what it is. And when
00:54:54
I was sitting at the town hall, I was like, I'm so grateful I made that decision.
00:54:58
>> [ __ ] I know. I'm telling you. One of my mates, Axel, said, "James,
00:55:02
absolute rubbish. I would have went to Spotify. Um, no, honestly, mate, it's um
00:55:08
I did I felt really grateful. There was no regret, no FOMO. I felt 100% with that decision. It took 24 48 hours after
00:55:18
making the decision to go, God, I'm still feeling a bit crappy. >> I'm losing out. But by the time the
00:55:22
event came around now, this is it. It aligns with my values, my priorities. James 5 years ago would have been in
00:55:28
London for sure. >> So, yeah. >> It's funny. Jason Paris, the CEO of 1 NZ
00:55:35
on the podcast. Similar sort of thing. So um 1NZ did a deal with um Elon Musk and Starink. That's right.
00:55:41
>> And he was invited to some function to do with either SpaceX or Starink. Um but
00:55:45
it it um clashed with his daughter's prize giving or something um and he turned it down.
00:55:51
>> I love that. >> That says a lot because the Starlink thing or whatever for me the Spotify
00:55:56
headquarters that could happen again in the future. But the first school production and Finn doesn't love sport.
00:56:03
Finn is into drama, singing, hip-hop, dancing. He's awesome at it. That's his
00:56:07
passion. >> Yeah. >> That's not going to happen again, Dom. Like, what kind of dad am I going to do
00:56:12
my thing? Missing that. I can say no to that. >> Yeah. You can't get the time back. I And
00:56:17
I think it crystallizes as as you get older. Like the time goes so fast. >> Yeah.
00:56:21
>> So fast. It's alarming. >> Too quick. >> So you um one of your sort of functions
00:56:26
is helping people find their purpose. So um like what's yours now and how has it
00:56:30
changed over time? >> M so I guess when you look at my professional purpose uh for me it's
00:56:36
helping great people become the greatest. >> I really enjoy working with people who
00:56:40
are committed, disciplined, uh excited about the future. They've got goals. They work towards them. I want to help
00:56:47
them because not everyone has that. That's a small percentage of people who are really clear on what they want. So I
00:56:52
love helping them to close the gap. That's, you know, high performers becoming elite performers. Uh, so that's
00:56:58
that's my purpose is to help as many of those people as I can in the corporate
00:57:01
world, in the sporting world, friends and family around me. If I can help, I don't have all the answers, but I can
00:57:07
ask some damn good questions and they can figure out their own answers. >> Did you did you did you may still even
00:57:12
have it um to this day from time to time, but um did you have like imposter syndrome in the the beginning? Like
00:57:18
obviously you've done some stuff like you're a seventime world champion at the
00:57:21
drumming thing but then you're talking to a Sam Whitlock who's you know world's
00:57:26
best rugby player which is you know arguably more prestigious like um yeah the imposter syndrome thing did that
00:57:32
kick in for you? >> Yes and still have it. I don't think that's ever going to disappear. I think
00:57:37
it's a spectrum and in different parts of my life I've got it. So, perfect
00:57:42
example, Canterbury Rugby uh approached me uh through Caroline actually and said
00:57:47
they were looking for a mental skills coach and Caroline says um Terry and Marty want to speak to you. I says,
00:57:52
"What about mental skills coach?" I don't know much about rugby. Like I know
00:57:56
how the game works basically. I know Ireland's pretty awesome team. I know that's not popular in New Zealand. Uh
00:58:02
but what would I know? And so I met with them and they says, "James, we'd love
00:58:05
you to come in. We've seen what you've done with these other people in different fields and individuals. we
00:58:09
think you could add some value at Canterbury Rugby. I went, "Guys, I'm not
00:58:13
a rugby expert." They went, "Great. We don't need another one of those. Got
00:58:17
plenty of them in the building at Rugby Park. We need you to come and do what you do." So, the day is coming. The day
00:58:22
is coming for my first mental skills session in Rugby Park. >> I'm [ __ ] myself and I'm sweating. I
00:58:28
mean, I'm even sweating, thinking back to how I was feeling going in. So, clearly I'm built like an equestrian
00:58:32
jockey. So, I'm walking into that building. I look different. you know, this tiny little guy and I'm going, what
00:58:38
are these big rugby legs, you know, all blacks, crusaders, Canterbury men? What are they going to think of this random
00:58:44
little Irish guy? Like, how much value will I have? So, massive imposter syndrome. And I said to the the coaches,
00:58:50
if I go in in this flops, you don't need to keep me the entire season. Sack me
00:58:54
instantly. I don't want to be here and waste people's time. >> So, I went in and as soon as I got
00:58:58
there, person at the reception, fist pump. Hey, James, great to see you. Like, nice to meet you. What's your
00:59:03
name? Like, they knew who I was. going uh through the gym. I'm like, "God, I
00:59:07
wouldn't know what a a weight was if it hit me in the face and they're all the
00:59:09
boys are pumping the iron and they come over. Hey James, lovely to meet you. I've heard lots of great things and all
00:59:13
fist pumping." So I'm like, by the time I get to the room where I do my mental
00:59:17
skills session, I feel like I'm a bit of part of the family, like I feel welcome.
00:59:22
I feel like I belong. So Canopy Rugby has this amazing ability to make people feel like they belong very quickly. Fist
00:59:28
pump, eye contact. James, love it to meet you. So by the time I got there, I was much more relaxed. And so my
00:59:35
imposter syndrome went from 100% to like five. >> And I think every time I step in there,
00:59:40
there's still that imposter syndrome. I admire them all so much. Every athlete I
00:59:44
work with, every leader, but so much admiration. Coming here today, as I said earlier, of course, like who am I to sit
00:59:50
with Dom Harvey? Like there's always that. And I think that's healthy. >> I think when it gets to 100% or 90%, it
00:59:57
stays there. That's where it's debilitating. That's where we don't take
01:00:01
risks, where we don't get out our comfort zones. So, I think it's about just finding techniques to go, I can be
01:00:06
I can have imposter syndrome, but it's not going to own me. >> So, certainly I I still have it for
01:00:11
sure. It's never going to disappear. >> Yeah, it's good to hear. I I think
01:00:14
everyone Yeah. I Everyone has those moments at some points where you just feel like you're a little kid again. I
01:00:20
don't know. You feel like you're out of your depth. I >> think you've probably had someone on a
01:00:23
show where you're like, "Oh my god, they're on my show." >> Often. Yeah. Often. It's like, "What the
01:00:27
[ __ ] is going on?" I even have a moment during the conversation where I sort of
01:00:31
like, you know, it's almost like an out-of- body experience where it's like,
01:00:34
"What the [ __ ] I can't believe I'm sitting here with this person." Please
01:00:37
capture those. I talk to my clients about having a PVJ, your personal victory journal. Have somewhere where
01:00:42
you capture those moments how you felt because you'll have a dark day, you'll
01:00:46
have a tough day. Go back to your personal victory journal and go, I remember that. I can do this. I'm Look,
01:00:51
I can do that. Capture those magic moments, Dom. >> Yeah. I I um I am probably guilty of
01:00:57
that like not not being in the moment, you know, and not enjoying the the journey and just focusing on the
01:01:02
destination, but um if you have a growth mindset, the destination is always a moving target, isn't it?
01:01:06
>> They're never ending. >> Um and it can be exhausting. >> Yeah.
01:01:10
>> Are you okay at that? Like um just smelling the roses I guess along the
01:01:14
way. something I've struggled with to be totally honest. Yeah. >> Because
01:01:18
>> you know when you look at people who are in sport or they've got career goals
01:01:22
like they're always setting goals out into the future and that means you're
01:01:25
future focused and so sometimes you know like I'll win the world championship and
01:01:30
the next day like cool who cares move on. >> Well you mentioned um the golfer before
01:01:35
Scotty Schaefer he said the same sort of thing like about the uh the amount of >> the amount of time satisfaction he gets
01:01:41
after winning a trophy. minimal >> very minimal what I realized I get the satisfaction from is the pursuit
01:01:48
>> it's like the building towards that that Arthur Cbrook stuff we talked about
01:01:51
earlier pursuing something really satisfying so now I force myself to smell the roses and I do that through
01:01:58
journaling like journaling sounds like this real kind of you know boring thing I love journaling it goes everywhere
01:02:03
with me planes trains automobiles sits beside my bed when I'm with clients it's
01:02:07
there it's in the little bag sitting over there right now journaling for me is my way of getting present what
01:02:12
happened today? What didn't go so well? What did I learn? That's the only way I
01:02:16
kind of force myself to do it because Dom, it's not natural for me. I'm constantly in the future.
01:02:20
>> So, this journaling, what does it look like? Is it like bullet points or is it
01:02:23
like a full um written out diary entry or what is it? >> So, I always when I look at journaling,
01:02:29
struggle to get the the rhythm going. I'd do it for a week and then give up.
01:02:33
And so, I thought I need to get an actual rhythm going. So, I'd answer three questions at the end of each day.
01:02:39
What went well today? what didn't go so well and what did I learn? So I did that
01:02:43
for six months and then I went back and started to see patterns. I'm like oh I'm
01:02:48
not learning from that lesson. I'm paying dumb tax there. So like what's
01:02:51
going on? And after about six months I'm like okay I'm sick of answering these
01:02:54
bloody questions. How about a free flow? So I'll start with gratitude because the
01:02:58
neuroscience behind practicing gratitude is phenomenal. So started practicing gratitude. Four to six things each day
01:03:04
I'm grateful for. >> Then I start writing about the things I'm worried about for the day. What am I
01:03:08
worried about? What might go wrong? And then I challenge myself. But have you done that before? Will it really go
01:03:13
wrong? What might go right? What look through the possibilities? So my journaling is a lot of that. I do a lot
01:03:18
of uh had an experience. I'll not tell you the airline. I was traveling uh earlier this year and uh it wasn't a a
01:03:25
New Zealand airline and I had a terrible experience on four separate flights. I thought something's wrong here. And it's
01:03:33
culture. So I got my journal out and I went, okay, what does great culture look like? And like you, I look back at all
01:03:38
the great people I've worked with or interviewed and go I know exactly what separates great from greatness like
01:03:44
greater >> and that is these these key things that the journal is a place for me to think
01:03:49
to strategize to I wrote most of my book >> by journaling and putting all the models
01:03:54
that are in my book calibrating them. The journal is kind of like a coach. It's a it's a free coach.
01:04:00
>> So I would urge everyone to consider it. It cost you nothing. Mhm. >> I mean, you could even, if you really
01:04:05
want, just do it in the notes section of your phone. >> Yeah. >> Um, but yeah, gratitude has been a huge
01:04:10
thing for me. It's massive. >> Tell me about it. >> Uh, well, I was reluctant to start doing
01:04:15
it cuz I thought it was a I don't know, it was a little bit woo woo or something. But, um, it's been the most
01:04:19
fantastic thing. You You can start like really base level like um I I wake up every morning and I'll lie in bed for a
01:04:25
couple of minutes and think about um three free things that I'm grateful for.
01:04:30
So, it might be like having my dog next to me. It might be having fresh water to
01:04:34
drink behind me, knowing I'm about to have a hot shower. Um, so the base level
01:04:39
is is really really low. And then but when then when you start thinking about things you're grateful for, you just
01:04:44
become more I'm just grateful for everything. Eh, >> I'm grateful for every opportunity I get
01:04:48
every [ __ ] day. >> But look at what it's doing like you've got amazing energy. You look physically
01:04:53
really healthy. You attract amazing people into your life. >> Gratitude is the most powerful thing.
01:04:58
And again, the neuroscience and quantum physics that's behind it >> just proves that it works.
01:05:04
>> So, keep doing it. >> But we we all I mean, most of us have have so much to be grateful for that we
01:05:08
just let slip us by. Like after this um I'm doing a double podcast day today.
01:05:12
We're doing this one very early. >> 7:30 a.m. Let's go. >> I've got another one after this with um
01:05:18
a guy called Mitch Wilson who's a parasyclist. When he was 17, he had a brain tumor. He had had crippling um
01:05:24
yeah headaches um and was vomiting and it was sort of misdiagnosed. So he he he could have a lot to be bitter about. By
01:05:31
the time it was discovered it was a brain tumor. Um he got told he was going to lose his eyesight. So at the age of
01:05:35
17 he lost 95% of his eyesight. Um, from what I know about him, uh, had he'd
01:05:43
go to bed in his go to bed in hospital at night, look at the photo of his family and his
01:05:48
friends and think, is this going to be the last time I see them? >> At seven, [ __ ] teen.
01:05:55
>> That's heartbreaking. >> It's terrible. >> Yeah. Nobody should have experienced
01:05:59
that. >> Yeah. >> What age is he now? >> He's um like 30 now. So, he's rebuilt
01:06:04
his life and he's become a parasyclist. So he sits on the the back of a bike and
01:06:08
there's um what's called a pilot at the front that steers it cuz >> Can you imagine that? How cruel is that?
01:06:15
Your eyesight at 17. >> Yeah, that's horrific. >> So we all we all have these um back to
01:06:19
the gratitude thing, we all have these gifts like even our eyesight that can be taken away. Um and these conversations
01:06:25
that I've had have sort of crystallized that for me a little bit and I'm just so
01:06:28
thankful for so much. >> The small things >> are the big things is what I'm hearing
01:06:32
you say. like the tiny things, the water that you drink, the people that you get
01:06:36
to connect with, the clothes that you get to wear. It's the simple things that
01:06:39
are actually the most important things. >> Yeah. 100%. >> Yeah. >> So, um yeah, you've worked with all
01:06:45
sorts of people like you you mentioned um the Canterbury Rugby team before that you're the mental schools coach for, but
01:06:50
there's like your billion-dollar CEOs, global leaders, all sorts of people like
01:06:53
that. What's um if anything, like what's the most surprising insecurity they all
01:06:58
share? H well look when I look back at the people I've worked with that fear is
01:07:04
a big common trait amongst them all and it's generally the the fear of what other people think or the fear of
01:07:13
failure and so most of these these when you look at them from the outside highly
01:07:19
successful people are often operating from a place of fear and they're miserable inside and that's why I end up
01:07:24
working with them h so so it's like it And what you see on the outside is kind of like the swan on the
01:07:31
lake. Like the swan looks like it's just gliding. It's pedaling like crap
01:07:35
underneath. Right? >> So this fear of what other people think drives many of us. And you look at
01:07:42
Bronny Wear's great book. So she wrote the top regrets of the dying. So I read
01:07:46
this four or five years ago and she's a pallet of care nurse. She nursed people
01:07:49
in their last few weeks of life. But she always asked them one question. What do
01:07:54
you regret in your life? And she wrote it down in a journal. So she come up with thousands of entries. The number
01:08:00
one regret of the dying dumb. I regret living my life making decisions based upon what I thought other people thought
01:08:08
of me. >> I'm so regretful of that. I thought Christ that pretty much sums it up for
01:08:14
most of us. So these people that I'm working with that you would look at and
01:08:17
go like I want to be like that performer or whatever. Most of them don't have the
01:08:21
joy or fulfillment you might think because they're so worried about what other people think. I had an athlete who
01:08:28
would be a household name in New Zealand come to me Tuesday morning in tears. Said, "What's up, dude?" He, "Did you
01:08:36
did you read the comment?" Like, "What comment?" He says, "Did you not read the
01:08:41
comment on the Instagram post?" I like, "What comment? What Instagram post?" He
01:08:46
went, "It was about the game on the weekend. Did you not?" I was like, "No,
01:08:49
I don't read those things." He says, "Did you not see what they wrote about
01:08:52
me?" I was like, "How many comments were there?" Oh, there's about 1,50.
01:08:56
I said, I didn't see that comment. He went, well, I'm I'm gutted and and I
01:09:01
can't sleep. And so, what did he say? He says, I'm crap and I'm a husband. Oh,
01:09:06
and why do you why do you have any feeling about that comment? Well, it's like it's really upset me. I
01:09:12
was like, is it because you are a husband? You know, are you crap? He went, well, I
01:09:16
don't think so. Did you get selected to play? Yeah. Okay. So, you're pretty damn
01:09:22
good then, aren't you? Yeah. Why do you read that damn crap? I don't know. I
01:09:26
just end up there and I look at it and because we all fear what people think, >> you know,
01:09:31
>> do you know the person? Is it is it your mom or dad? Is it someone that's got
01:09:34
your best interest at heart or is it just some random? >> But most of us are doing that. We buy
01:09:39
cars. So I say to people in an audience I'm talking >> for those that drive the Range Rover,
01:09:43
the Ferrari, the Porsche. I dearly hope >> that you're driving it because you love
01:09:48
it. >> You love the feel of it, how it moves. if you've bought that car because you
01:09:54
want to fit in with your mates, fit in in your neighborhood, you want to prove someone wrong, sell the car today. And
01:10:01
one guy come up a week later who's at an event in Christ Church says, "James, I
01:10:04
sold my uh Range Rover and uh I bought a Volkswagen Golf, which I think are great
01:10:08
little cars." Um I says, "Why?" He was literally trying to fit in with everyone
01:10:13
at work. >> That's really sad. People buy clothes, go to university, make decisions on
01:10:17
work, make decisions on relationships based on what will they think about this. Cut that crap out. It's taken me
01:10:23
years to figure that out. Only in the last half a decade >> have I started really not caring what
01:10:28
people's judgments are. I care what people think to a certain degree. You know, I care about people,
01:10:32
>> but I couldn't give a damn what people are judging you. The t-shirt I'm
01:10:35
wearing, the shoes I'm wearing, the car I drive. I don't care. There's more to
01:10:39
life. >> Yeah. And also another thing you realize um everyone human humans are um by
01:10:45
nature quite self-conscious. So people aren't thinking about you as much as what you would like to think they are.
01:10:49
They're they're thinking about themselves 100% Ram syndrome, right? You and I have got it. World revolves around
01:10:56
me every day. Ram syndrome. We've all got it. What am I doing? What's in it
01:11:00
for me today? We've all got that. They don't care about you and me. >> Not really. No. No.
01:11:06
>> Um yeah. There was a quote I I really liked that stuck with me. It's like
01:11:09
other people's opinion is none of my business. >> That's brilliant.
01:11:12
>> Um I really I really like that. Um yeah, I'm I'm finally at a point now. I'm a
01:11:16
very slow learner, even slower than you, where I I can avoid reading the comments.
01:11:20
>> If if there's a post and I think there's going to be comments that are going to
01:11:22
like upset me or ruin my day, like why would I expose myself to that? >> That's a choice.
01:11:27
>> When you choose to engage in those comments and read them, that's a choice.
01:11:30
>> Yeah. >> And that's I always say the thing you're about to do, is it going to be useful or
01:11:35
unuseful? Will it be useful for how you feel emotionally? Great. Do it. If it's
01:11:39
going to be unusful, why do it? Don't engage in it and then self-pity, self-loathe, and want attention. Just
01:11:45
make the decisions that are useful. >> Yeah. It's troubling for kids though.
01:11:50
How old it's how it's Finn now? >> Nine. >> Nine. Yeah. So, he's he's getting into
01:11:53
that um you know, a few years away from that sort of like puberty, teenage years. I can't imagine how difficult it
01:12:00
is at that age. >> Yeah. I think you're constantly comparing that comparison with others.
01:12:05
the one thing that I can control. >> And his mom and his bonus mom agree, we're going to keep a phone and social
01:12:12
media out of his hands for as long as possible. Whether people love or loathe Christopher Luxon and his government,
01:12:20
banning phones in schools, high five. Let's get the social media and ban it up
01:12:25
until the age of 16. Our kids don't need to be exposed to that crap. >> The technology rewires their brains. The
01:12:32
statistics on suicide, teen suicide particular, is going through the roof. >> Social media does not help. So, that's
01:12:40
the one thing with Finn where I'm going to support him by not giving him access.
01:12:44
And he's already asking. He's nine. Some of his mates have phones. Like, what the
01:12:48
hell does a 9-year-old need a phone for, you know? And the iPad, he gets it when
01:12:51
we travel. That's it. He doesn't need an iPad at home. There's books. Read a
01:12:55
book, mate. So, I like to keep it simple. He's going to have challenges as it is. We all do.
01:13:01
>> Yeah. Yeah, it's hard though, especially when he starts pulling out lines like,
01:13:03
"Oh, Dad, I'm the only one." >> Totally. You're a crap dad. Sort it out,
01:13:08
Dad. Get me a phone. I'll get him a brick. Don't I'll say you've got a
01:13:11
phone, but there's no internet. >> Yeah. Well, well, that's the thing. It
01:13:14
started out with kids having them for emergency situations. How many emergency situations are there? Come on.
01:13:18
>> Once in a blue moon, maybe. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, in your in your opinion
01:13:23
or experience, what's the difference between being a boss and being a leader?
01:13:27
>> Oh, good. So, a boss, it's it's uh us and them. Bosses would talk about their workers.
01:13:39
And I chat with people and they go, "Oh, the workers." I hold up who? The
01:13:43
workers. Is that what they are? They're your workers. And sometimes they'll point
01:13:48
down when they say, you know, the workers. They don't even know they're doing it. A boss will always be looking
01:13:53
at what's best for the boss. The boss will always want to be seen a certain way. I don't think it's a healthy trait
01:14:00
to want to be a boss. >> I think a leader and a good leader, there's all different types of leaders,
01:14:05
but a high performance leader is one who serves. He talks about their people. They say us a lot. And they say when
01:14:13
there's mistakes, they say I or me. >> You know that when things are going
01:14:17
well, it's us. We did this and the team did that. When the proverbial hits the
01:14:22
fan, they go, I take responsibility for that. I did that. I will sort that out. I don't push it on.
01:14:29
>> Leadership is a choice. Everyone can lead. But Dom, it starts with you. Like
01:14:34
you can't lead others unless you lead yourself. And so telling others to do something that you're not doing, well,
01:14:39
God, you're not walking the walk. Uh again, whether people love them or loathe them, uh Greg Forin, New Zealand
01:14:46
CEO, Saturday morning, loading the luggage. That's leadership, right? If he's doing
01:14:52
that because it's like I want to be with my team, great. If he's doing it to take
01:14:56
them the media box, maybe not so good. But if he's doing that right from here,
01:15:00
that is leadership. Nothing is is beneath a leader. They'll scrub the floors.
01:15:04
>> Well, he he's um he's indicated he's going to resign, Greg Forum, but um you
01:15:09
still see him on domestic flights like handing out the boiled sweets at the end of the flights or pouring the coffees.
01:15:14
And it's not um it's not I don't think it's tokenism because he's he's done it
01:15:19
a lot and it doesn't always get you people don't always film it or put it on
01:15:23
social media. Yeah, he served me a cup of tea and I wasn't going to ask for a
01:15:25
selfie. You know, it's like it's pretty cool. >> And I think that's what leadership is.
01:15:28
It's doing the things that >> bosses think that they're above, you
01:15:33
know, the new person rather than them go and get the coffees, why don't you go
01:15:37
get the coffees and take them for a walk and talk about what's interesting to
01:15:40
them, what they see. >> You know, leadership's a choice. >> Everything rises and falls in
01:15:44
leadership. We can see that with countries. You know, certain countries are rising or falling based on
01:15:49
leadership. >> It's the same as your podcast. It's the same as a family, the community, our
01:15:55
country. >> If things aren't going well, just look to the top. It all rises and falls on
01:16:00
leadership. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, one thing you do with your clients is you help them um get crystal
01:16:05
clear on what their why is. For anyone that's um listening to this or watching
01:16:09
this who feels stuck or lost, what's the where should they start? What's the
01:16:12
first question? >> Yeah, great. So, if people going, I don't know what my why is. Uh you could
01:16:16
read Simon Synynic's great book, Start with Why. Uh but that doesn't tell you
01:16:20
what your why is. just explains really his thinking around purpose. Easy questions.
01:16:27
What makes me cry? If you're like, I don't cry. What gets under my skin? Not
01:16:33
much. What makes me angry? What keeps me up at night? What do I hate being seen being done to others? Uh what irks me?
01:16:43
Uh who do I deeply care about? Those are questions I would challenge everyone to
01:16:48
get clear on because that will help them make decisions based on why rather than
01:16:53
how much am I going to earn, where am I headed? You're doing more purpose- driven work. Do work that matters,
01:16:58
right? High performers always look at their work and go this matters. >> And it's just a core human need. Dom, we
01:17:03
we need to feel like we have a sense of significance, not ego, but does the work
01:17:08
I do actually matter? M >> you know I was chatting at a a large Australasian bank CEO COO bunch of
01:17:16
leaders in the room and I say what's the vision for this company where you guys
01:17:19
headed nobody could answer the question so I asked it again in case by Irish accent they didn't understand what I
01:17:24
said where is this country this company headed nobody could answer so I go over at lunch hang out with a bunch of the
01:17:31
senior leaders 20 plus year tenure three of them quietly looking for jobs in other companies I said why
01:17:40
James, I don't know why we do what we do here. We have no vision and there's no
01:17:44
no reason, no purpose with what we do. 6 months later, they're all gone. So, but
01:17:48
people look at retention, culture, happiness. >> Doing what matters is most important.
01:17:54
>> Don't do what's exciting or easy. Do what matters most >> and ask those questions. What keeps me
01:17:58
up at night? What makes me cry? What makes me angry? You know, for a lot of people, there's a lot of anger in the
01:18:03
world right now. You and I are very positive and we choose optimism. But you look out into the world, there's a ton
01:18:09
of anger. >> And we've got to find ways to help people find and tap in to purpose.
01:18:15
Because when people are purpose driven, >> they don't have time for anger.
01:18:18
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I found Yeah. From a a personal perspective, I I find the the better my
01:18:25
mental headsp space is, the the less angry I am about things as well. >> I get frustrated and annoyed by even
01:18:30
like little things happening around me if my mental health isn't where it should be. There's plenty to be angry
01:18:35
about if you want to be. Okay. Yeah. Just go on social media, you'll find things within a couple of minutes that
01:18:39
you can be outraged by >> 100%. Where your focus goes, your energy flows. >> So if your focus goes to negative stuff,
01:18:48
all of your energy goes there. >> You know, it's it's the same in any
01:18:51
field. If your focus goes to the opposition, it goes to the TMO, all your energy goes there. You can't
01:18:56
control anything. Is that useful or unusful? Always a question to ask. Where are my
01:19:02
focuses going? Is that useful focus? you know, focusing on social media, focusing
01:19:05
on what you don't have. I don't think it's very useful. Focus on what you do
01:19:09
want, focus on where you are headed. >> Yeah. >> You you've mentioned a couple of books
01:19:13
um in this podcast. Um yeah, besides your own, what are what are like a bunch of books that you absolutely swear by?
01:19:20
>> Yeah. Great. So, the wealth money can't buy by Robin Chararma. Phenomenal book.
01:19:27
It's his most recent book. You know, Robin sold 20, 30 million copies of his
01:19:31
books over his lifetime. deep thinker, wealth, money can't buy. H if you're
01:19:35
chasing the big goals, I love you, but don't chase them just for the success.
01:19:40
Buy that book, The Wealth, Money Can't Buy. Secondly, The Alchemist. I always
01:19:43
have copies of Po Qualo's The Alchemist. It's a great fable about purpose. I gift
01:19:48
it to so many people. I just think it's one of the books we all got to have. Uh
01:19:52
Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankle. >> Yeah, incredible book. >> Incredible. I had never never heard of
01:19:57
it until the Christ Church earthquakes and I thought I'm self-pity, self-loathing, drinking way too much
01:20:02
alcohol. >> What can I do? Read Victor Frankle's book. Wow, what a book.
01:20:06
>> Anything else come to mind? Joo Willink, as you mentioned, Extreme Ownership is a great book.
01:20:12
>> At one point, I loved David Gogggins uh Can't Hurt Me. >> Yeah.
01:20:16
>> And then uh yeah, just I look at it differently now. I think there's another
01:20:19
way to to achieve your your goals without being a massochist. >> Yeah. He's just obsessed with misery.
01:20:24
>> Yes. and he uses the MF word way too much for my liking. >> I like I like I
01:20:30
>> do too. >> It doesn't seem like a like like an existence that has any joy in it. Do
01:20:36
>> you know it's a great book and Kiwi audience some of them will go I'm not
01:20:39
going to get that but others will go yes I'll get it is a John Keys book and it
01:20:42
was uh written by John Rowan. Bloody brilliant book really you know really good. Yeah because I don't think
01:20:48
everyone knows John's story. They all know his position. They all know some of
01:20:51
the funny things he did some of the serious things he did. but they don't know John. And you've had John on the
01:20:56
show. I've had a John on the show. He's a good man and he's got a great story.
01:20:59
>> And I think that book taught me a lot about the human behind the persona
01:21:06
>> and about goal setting, about self-belief, about uh determination, all the things you see in my book. Like I
01:21:12
look at what John has done and again love him or loathe him. >> He does all those things radically clear
01:21:17
in what he want supercharged his BS >> led with purpose his version of what
01:21:22
purpose looked like. So, that's another one I would suggest all Kiwis get. >> Yeah. What do you What do you know about
01:21:30
tall puppy syndrome? Is it a thing in Ireland or is it something that you It is. Oh,
01:21:34
>> 100%. >> Yeah. I That just comes to mind because you mentioned you mentioned John Key. Um
01:21:39
and we did touch upon before the relationship that some people have with wealth. I feel like in New Zealand
01:21:43
there's a there's almost a negative stigma um in some circles about, you
01:21:48
know, being rich. >> Northern Ireland's the same. >> Really? >> Yeah. I had a family member who uh was
01:21:54
driving and they seen a person I think it was a Porsche Ferrari I can't remember I was only seven eight at the
01:21:59
time and they took took over or cut them off or something and family member kind
01:22:04
of flipped him the finger and said uh they're making up for something with that car and uh kind of alluding to
01:22:10
something and >> yeah thanks Dom thanks for making it obvious. There we go.
01:22:16
>> Trust to call out. I love that. and um never trust a person who drives a car
01:22:22
like that. They've done something to get that money. And so I definitely think
01:22:26
Northern Ireland and New Zealand have a lot in common around people who are highly successful. And that comes down
01:22:33
to kind of let them think what they want. You know, >> you've got to poppy syndrome is always
01:22:37
going to be a thing in this country. >> Get on with it. You know, don't let it
01:22:41
stop you dreaming and striving and doing. Do the work and get on with it anyway.
01:22:47
>> Yeah. You got to live your life for you. A 100 years from now, none of this is
01:22:51
going to matter. No one's going to remember me. No one's going to remember
01:22:53
you. >> If if you're lucky, yeah, 100 years from now, maybe there'll be some great
01:22:57
grandchildren that have a a vague memory of you, but that's going to be it. That's none of that's going to matter.
01:23:02
>> You could take such bigger risks and bigger swings in life thinking like
01:23:05
that. >> It doesn't actually matter. >> Yeah. >> You could fail everything, put
01:23:09
everything on the line today >> and rebuild the whole thing. >> You've got the skills to do it. You
01:23:14
didn't win the lotto. If you win the lottery, don't get lose the money. You
01:23:17
don't know how to do that again. You've built a business, built a brand, you
01:23:21
could lose the Dom Harvey podcast today, touch when it doesn't happen, and you
01:23:24
could rebuild it in 12 months, guaranteed. >> You just know how to do it. >> So, get on with it. Yeah.
01:23:31
>> Um the people you work with, the high performers, how how do they b bounce
01:23:35
back from failure or setback? >> All different. >> Everyone's different. Uh
01:23:39
>> is there any common sort of mindset or not really? >> Yeah. So there's this idea of like
01:23:45
particularly in rugby we talk about uh dealing in reality like the thing happened the ref made the call the TMO
01:23:53
did the thing you got the red card that's the reality get on with it so I feel like the people who bounce back
01:24:00
quicker control their controllables >> what can I control you know they get a
01:24:05
circle right in that circle what can I control and if they're moving on the field or they're at in their place of
01:24:11
work and they draw a circle ult to do it in their mind what can I control right now
01:24:14
>> my breath >> my mental focus how I respond to this challenge there's actually a very small
01:24:21
number of things we we need to control to feel like we have some sense of certainty so the people who do bounce
01:24:27
back and have resilience they're not afraid of failing they push themselves they go and do uncomfortable things and
01:24:33
they just keep going back to what are the controllables let's control them >> what about you when you've had what's
01:24:40
been something in the last couple of years that you have felt was a big failure or a scary moment and you've
01:24:47
bounced back. What helped you? >> Probably just knowing that you have to keep showing up.
01:24:56
>> Like you you um the the guaranteed way to fail for me is to is to stop.
01:25:01
If you keep going, then there's a chance that you're going to succeed. And also
01:25:06
just knowing that the the sun's going to rise every day and you can choose to be
01:25:10
there with it or not. But yeah, you just have to keep on going, don't you? >> Yeah. It's beautiful.
01:25:15
>> Yeah. And it [ __ ] sucks. Failure. Failure [ __ ] sucks. It's not enjoyable at all. But usually you look
01:25:21
back um with hindsight and sometimes it takes a long time to get that hindsight,
01:25:25
but you realize um something good came out of it. >> 100%. It's interesting when you talk
01:25:30
about that it sucks in the moment. It does. And I think this toxic positivity thing, like when something really shitty
01:25:37
happens, it's shitty. >> It's not nice. It's not, oh, it's fine.
01:25:41
It's [ __ ] Someone dies, that's terrible. Someone gets dealt a really bad blow with their health. That's not
01:25:47
There's nothing positive about that, right? It is. I was chatting with a a client in Antarctica recently. So,
01:25:53
they're running a the Scott base. And as you would expect with 12 people living
01:25:58
in a base, they're all going to have a lot of fun, but there's going to be
01:26:01
friction and challenges with anything. So, we talked about, you know, with some of the small things that do crop up when
01:26:06
humans live together. Uh, how do we deal with things? So, I talk about the 10 10
01:26:11
principle. And so, something happens, it's pissed you off, you're angry,
01:26:16
you're upset. 10 minutes from now, how might you feel? Well, you might be still
01:26:21
a bit pissed off, but a lot less. Okay. 10 months from now, looking back on this, how will you feel? You'll shrug
01:26:28
your shoulders, laugh, it didn't matter. Okay, bear with me. 10 years from now,
01:26:33
someone putting the spoon in the wrong drawer, how you going to feel about that? It's laughable, right? So, I
01:26:39
always try try that with myself. If someone has really got me going, 10 10 minutes and I'll still be a bit pissed.
01:26:46
10 months, I won't give a damn. 10 years, who cares, right? Me, I'm carrying on. I don't care what you've
01:26:50
just done. It helps, you know, it doesn't excuse abuse, but there's no excuse for that. But it certainly helps
01:26:56
with the small stuff that pisses us off. >> Yeah. Even even things that that can
01:27:01
seem life-changing that you think you never bounce back from 10 years from now, like uh it'll just be like a speed
01:27:06
bump. >> 100%. >> That's it. >> You know, the marriage failure,
01:27:09
>> 10 years on, >> it's literally a little moment in your life that you learn hopefully learned a
01:27:14
lot from >> at the at the time. Jesus, it's everything. It's all-encompassing. It's
01:27:18
depressing. >> I get it. >> Yeah. I've had Mike King on the podcast
01:27:21
very early on and he talked about um a thing called the inner critic or the inner voice.
01:27:26
>> What's yours like? >> I call him Leprechaun Lachlan. >> He's a little [ __ ] Don,
01:27:34
>> so I look at this. We've all got two selves. It's actually the first exercise
01:27:38
I do with any client. What's your best self? What's your worst self? Let's do
01:27:42
it with you, Don, to start with. So, >> if you think of your best self, when
01:27:46
you're at your best, you're your happiest. How do you walk? How do you talk? What are your thoughts like? How
01:27:52
do you treat others? Take me through. Describe all those things. >> Um yeah, positive, kind, um not bothered
01:28:02
or phased by anything else. >> I'm just um yeah, in in my own zone. >> Beautiful.
01:28:08
>> Yeah. I'm the best version of myself. >> And what's your posture like? Would you
01:28:11
be standing upright and broad chest? >> Yes. >> And breathing? Would it be shallow or
01:28:16
nice and full? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's good. >> Good. And I
01:28:19
>> It happens e effortlessly, too. >> Okay, great. So, you're in flow. It's
01:28:23
effortlessly. Brilliant. >> Who would you call that version of yourself? If you had to give them a we
01:28:26
nickname, superhero name or a, you know, some some kind of name, what would it be?
01:28:33
>> Dom the bomb. >> There we go. Dom the bomb. >> I'm editing this out.
01:28:39
>> Hell no, you're not. >> I love it. Okay, let's go. The >> By the way, I don't actually do this.
01:28:45
You asked me to come up with a date. >> I'd love it. So, worst self. So, when
01:28:51
you're being >> critical to others, you're not your best self. You're not thinking in a positive
01:28:56
way. Describe that. >> Yeah. Um I don't It's just an unhealthy space to be playing in. You know, you
01:29:03
you fixate on what your competitors, real or perceived, um are doing. You you just looking over your shoulder. Um I
01:29:14
don't know. negative, [ __ ] >> And if you do that for too long already
01:29:18
your body language, you're leaning over and you're doing this. >> So your body language changed from free
01:29:22
and flowing right away. Your physiology, your hormones have changed like that cuz
01:29:26
you're thinking about that version. >> That's not helpful, is it? >> It's not. Who's that? So mine's
01:29:30
leprechaun Lachland. Who's yours? >> Uh maybe. Oh, dumb the dick. >> I love it. Dom the bomb and dumb the
01:29:38
dick. Great. Now that exercise seems silly, right? >> Yeah. But actually it's really important
01:29:43
because at every moment of every day those two selves are at play. >> So internally you've got those two
01:29:50
things happening and it's up to you which one you decide to feed. >> You got two wolves in there. You got a
01:29:56
good wolf and a bad wolf. >> Which one's going to win? >> The one that you feed.
01:29:59
>> There you go. >> So it comes down to Dom the bomb. Let's feed him. Let's react from Dom the bomb.
01:30:04
Dom the dick. He's not going to respond in a powerful empowering way. So that's
01:30:09
something I think we all need to get clear on that inner critic, that inner voice.
01:30:13
>> And you you think sort of about the sort of people that you want to be around,
01:30:16
the sort of people that energize you and make you feel good. And is it someone that's, you know, [ __ ] or being a
01:30:23
dick? Never. >> Never. You don't want to be around those people. >> 100%. And you got to protect your space,
01:30:28
right? You got to protect your energy. >> Get around good people who have high
01:30:31
energy, positive thoughts, will big up your ideas, celebrate your successes. M >> you don't want to be around people who
01:30:37
are being the tall puppy. >> No, they will drain your battery so quickly% >> um how are you with vulnerability? Like
01:30:46
you got you got a good inner circle of friends that you can talk to about everything that's going on or do you
01:30:51
sort of process things alone? >> I do a lot. I I would say solitude is a big thing in my life. I meditate a lot
01:30:57
and I journal a lot. So I would say I'm a relatively maybe I don't know if deep
01:31:01
thinker is the right word, but I think a lot. Mhm. >> I have I had a massive social circle
01:31:07
through my teens, 20s and interestingly divorce time. It's interesting how my circle kind of
01:31:18
maybe cut in half almost maybe one social circle goes with that partner and one goes with that partner. I don't
01:31:23
know. But >> few perceived sides maybe. >> Yeah, totally maybe. >> But from that point onwards I started
01:31:28
going who do I want around me? Do I want 100 people at my funeral that I kind of
01:31:35
got on well with or do I want like 15 >> who I loved and they actually knew me.
01:31:41
So I've got on my one hand I could count my close friends, people who understand
01:31:46
my struggles, my challenges and I like that. I like a tight circle. I can trust them
01:31:51
>> and I'm not struggling to keep up with the social like I can't make it to this
01:31:54
and >> it it works for me. Some people need and feed off a lot. The one thing I guess
01:32:00
when people look at you or me, they see you're on a show or you're on a stage,
01:32:04
you're an extrovert. >> I'm not. >> I'm not an extrovert. I'm very much an
01:32:09
introvert. So, I need to recharge. So, I'll spend time, you know, during the
01:32:12
week with thousands of people. And then I'll go back to Littleton, go through
01:32:16
the tunnel. There's 3,000 people living in that little town. I'll go into my
01:32:19
house. I'll sit down. I'll meditate. I might go down to the market, grab
01:32:22
something on Saturday morning, come back up. Might go and walk a dogs, come back
01:32:25
up. >> I'm not very social. That's the opposite of what it was when I was a kid. So I
01:32:29
think that certainly for me, my personality has changed through life and earthquakes and trials and tribulations
01:32:37
and I've just adjusted my lifestyle to suit that. >> So I don't have a big massive fan base.
01:32:41
I keep it tight. >> I think part of that comes with aging as well. E your circle gets smaller but in
01:32:46
the most beautiful way imaginable. >> God, in my 20s I had so many friends.
01:32:50
Didn't didn't know many of their last names. >> Actually, some of them I didn't even
01:32:53
know their actual names. You know them by nickname only, but you you'd consider
01:32:56
them really [ __ ] good friends. >> And you knew their drink order, a guarantee.
01:32:59
>> Yeah, 100%. But I love that about getting older, especially high value friendships.
01:33:03
>> Yeah, I do too. >> What would you say your um best and worst habits are? Your best one of your
01:33:10
best must be the discipline aspect, right? >> Yeah. So, with that comes like this is
01:33:15
my best and my worst, I think. Um time. So, to be disciplined, you've got to
01:33:19
respect time and value time. I'm a bit of a time fanatic. m >> obsessive with time. Uh there is
01:33:26
absolutely zero missiond dom that I would have been late today. That would have sent me into overdrive. I'd have
01:33:32
been freaking out internally. >> So it's it's a real positive thing
01:33:35
sitting down to write a book. I had to dedicate two hours a day for a couple of months every morning going do it. That's
01:33:40
a strength. However, >> Caroline, Finn, come on. It's 1 minute to 3. I said wheels rolling at 3. We got
01:33:47
to be there at 3:20. I don't want to be late. They invited us. And I start to
01:33:51
get all flustered. That's not nice to be around, Don. That is that that's
01:33:54
leprechaun Lachland. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Is it going to matter in 10
01:33:58
minutes, 10 months, 10 years? >> Absolutely not. So, that's my best habit
01:34:02
and my worst habit and I'm really aware of it and I'm trying to work on it. And
01:34:06
Caroline can be the only one, maybe Finn that can confirm this. I think I'm getting better. Caroline actually gave
01:34:11
me a little compliment last week. She says, "James, we're running late and
01:34:13
you're you haven't said anything." >> Oh, didn't even notice. So, that's
01:34:16
definitely just time awareness. >> It's funny you should say that. I had I
01:34:20
know you've had him on your podcast as well and it was a great episode and I've
01:34:22
had um Sir Steve Hansen on my podcast recently and he said that he said a person's greatest strength is usually
01:34:28
their greatest weakness. >> 100%. When you look at it psychologically so Clifton strengths or
01:34:34
even another one that's free that your listeners could go to is via a character
01:34:38
strength. They just Google that it's amazing. >> Uh my number one I think with Clifton
01:34:42
was harmony and so just you know creating harmony and getting on with people and I thought that's awesome. not
01:34:48
a great strength. And then the coach said, "James, that's also your greatest
01:34:52
weakness." What do you mean? >> He says, "You won't call people out on
01:34:55
[ __ ] You won't call people out if they've hurt you. You won't call things
01:34:58
out if it just, oh, it's not quite right. You'll just Okay, cool. You'll
01:35:01
work around things." He says, "At home, it'll be a disaster." He says, "You're
01:35:04
divorced, aren't you?" I went, "Yep." He says, "Case in point." He says, "You
01:35:07
won't call things out as you see them. You'd rather just everyone be happy."
01:35:10
And so, yeah, your greatest strength is always your greatest weakness. >> Actually, that's probably mine. just
01:35:17
being a people pleaser, >> you know, you want to make people feel good, but because of the as a result of
01:35:23
that, you often um you prolong or procrastinate when it comes to difficult conversations.
01:35:28
>> What are you going to do about that? >> I just bury my head in the sand.
01:35:33
>> Dom, it's a it's a work on. >> No, good man. I think we're all working
01:35:38
on that stuff. >> Um when was the last time you cried? Um I I I found personally like since
01:35:48
I've been um into gratitude I'm far more emotional. >> I cried the last last time I cried was
01:35:56
uh I was on a plane coming home from Los Angeles and unfortunately the plane had
01:36:04
Wi-Fi and I got a text to say Stu has died. The hell? No way. Stu was a mentor, a
01:36:15
friend, a a genius. Um, and I found out he'd killed himself. This just can't be right. Like, this is
01:36:23
not right. Like, he's got kids and he's got a successful life and he's
01:36:27
worldrenowned at what he does. Like, this is not right. I don't believe this.
01:36:30
And then it started to be reinforced. And so, that was the last time. >> And Dom, 3 days later, I cried again. So
01:36:38
my former wife Lisa, who still works at the school I worked at, calls me. She said, "Are you driving?" "Yeah." "Can
01:36:44
you pull over?" "Yeah." She said, "Um, do you remember Connor?" I like, "Of
01:36:50
course." I taught him for years. Like what a great kid. 18. Uh just killed himself.
01:36:57
Like I'm, you know, goosebumps now just thinking about it. And um like doesn't
01:37:02
strength is not holding tears in like not crying. Like >> I'm getting teeyed just thinking about
01:37:07
that. Those two brilliant men. >> Yeah. You know, both relatively young men. One was 18, one was 50.
01:37:14
>> That's just I I can't >> I can't figure it out, Don. I've tried
01:37:18
to figure it out for a long time. That's why I first reached out to John Key was
01:37:20
like, "Why are people in our country, particularly teenagers, killing themselves? Just doesn't make sense."
01:37:26
>> So, um, yeah, that was the last time I cried. >> Yeah. >> How close are you to being the best
01:37:32
version of yourself? >> Miles away. >> Really? Not even close. >> Just constantly a moving target target.
01:37:37
>> I will never be satisfied. >> I would say I'm content in terms of I like my life. I like
01:37:46
getting up in the morning. I love the people around me. I love doing what I do, >> but I'm never satisfied.
01:37:53
>> Contentment and satisfaction, two different things. So, I'm not the best
01:37:56
version of myself. I've got lots of flaws. I've got lots of work to do. I've
01:37:59
got lots of goals I'm pursuing. And I like that. M >> it gives me the purpose and the drive.
01:38:05
>> Yeah. >> I don't think it's Yeah, I don't think even as a drummer I was always,
01:38:09
>> yeah, I might have won the world championships yesterday, but that could
01:38:12
have been better. That could have been better. Just always looking for what we can improve.
01:38:17
>> With that in mind, are you proud of yourself? >> I struggle with that.
01:38:25
>> Caroline's had this chat with me. I struggle to say I'm proud. >> Don't know why. Um,
01:38:33
just I don't I don't know why I just can't connect with that. I I love it
01:38:38
when someone I love says, "I'm proud of you, James." You know, my mom said it
01:38:42
recently. I was like, "God, that felt so beautiful." >> And it wasn't this ego thing. I was
01:38:46
like, "Cool, my mom's proud of me. That's awesome." Like, really meant a
01:38:50
lot. Um, yeah, I've never got to a point where I'm like, "I'm so proud." And I've
01:38:55
had magic moments. I've hit goals that I've wanted to hit and I've been excited
01:38:58
about them, but I've never Yeah, I've never felt that. I don't know what that
01:39:03
is. Maybe that's a work on for me to explore. >> It's funny, hey, it's Yeah, I mean, you
01:39:07
you're you're not um a New Zealand day like you're you're from Ireland, but
01:39:11
it's um something Kiwis struggle to answer a lot of the time. In particular,
01:39:15
Kiwi males. Maybe it's an Irish thing as well. >> I think Kiwis and Irish people are just
01:39:19
so so similar. Yeah, we talk a bit about different >> common a Commonwealth thing.
01:39:22
>> Yeah, could be. Yeah, we were, you know. Yeah, it could be that. Yeah, I struggle
01:39:27
with that. I'd say many of the men in my life would struggle to >> to also say that.
01:39:32
>> Why? Because it seems boastful or >> maybe it's that. >> It's either that or I'm just like
01:39:38
constantly moving >> where I'm not slowing down to smell the roses as you said earlier.
01:39:42
>> Yeah, >> maybe it's that. I need to explore that. That's something in my that will turn up
01:39:46
in my journal tonight at 9:00 p.m. as I'm about to go to bed. >> That's um that's a question I've never
01:39:51
been asked. >> Well, it's something to think about. like you've done a lot of cool stuff
01:39:54
now. You got this book out. Um you you've helped um you change a lot of people's lives for the better. What's
01:40:00
there not to be proud of? >> Thanks, man. That means a lot. It really does.
01:40:03
>> Hey, this has been really enjoyable finally connecting. >> Thank you. It's been a pleasure from my
01:40:07
end. >> By the way, um yeah, you said something before about uh you being late this
01:40:11
morning would have been the worst thing imaginable. Uh so it's a 7:30 a.m. podcast. It's worth um highlighting. You
01:40:17
messaged me maybe yesterday or the day before saying, "So, do you want me there
01:40:20
at 7:30 or should I be there at 7:10, 7:15, 7:20?" >> Yes, I did. Now you're seeing it all
01:40:26
play out, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> It makes sense. >> But no, I appreciated that. It was cool.
01:40:30
>> Ah, cool. >> I've loved this. This is like I've followed you for years. I've deeply
01:40:35
loved your the way you question, the way you get curious, your humility. Like you're the best in the business and
01:40:41
you're deeply humble. and Dom, what we're excited about as a team, actually,
01:40:44
we're going to have you down to Christ Church this year to the town hall for
01:40:47
our high performance leadership event. So, the crowd are going to bloody love you.
01:40:51
>> Ah, it would be an honor. Well, James Lachlan um with his new book, Habits of
01:40:55
High Performers, which um I'm going to love reading. >> And you off I I as I said at the
01:41:00
beginning, I got sent a PDF copy from your publishers, but um when this book comes out, um I I don't want you to send
01:41:07
me a copy. I want to buy a copy. >> That's beautiful. Thank you for the
01:41:10
support. It means a lot. I've I've written books before, so I know I know
01:41:13
you only get like 15 free copies. >> You know how it works. >> Send them home to Ireland. I'll buy one.
01:41:19
>> Oh, thank you so much, my man. >> You're a good man. Thank you.
01:41:21
>> Appreciate you. >> Thanks, James. >> Thank you.