00:00:06
James Lachland, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:08
Dom, I'm so glad to be here. I was
00:00:09
actually on the way over in the cab this
00:00:11
morning and I was thinking I'm a bit
00:00:13
nervous. Why? Cuz I'm usually sitting in
00:00:15
a different seat. I'm sometimes, you
00:00:16
know, the host and it's it's different
00:00:18
to be the guest. So, I look up to you.
00:00:20
I've got deep respect for you. I think
00:00:22
you're the the leader in broadcasting
00:00:23
and podcasting. So, it's it's an honor
00:00:25
to sit beside you, mate.
00:00:26
>> Well, likewise, mate. I really
00:00:28
appreciate it. You've got a a new book
00:00:29
coming out called Habits of High
00:00:31
Performers, which is um I understand
00:00:33
it's not the sort of book that everyone
00:00:34
would be into, but it's my sort of book.
00:00:36
Uh like if I'm in Paper Plus and I see a
00:00:37
book like this, it's a book that I'm
00:00:39
going to flick through and probably buy.
00:00:41
Um yeah. So, you sent me like a PDF copy
00:00:44
of it cuz the actual book is not out
00:00:46
yet. By the time this podcast comes out,
00:00:48
it will be out.
00:00:49
>> And I'm a slow reader, so I haven't read
00:00:50
the entire thing. Um but I've read I I I
00:00:53
skimmed through it and it looks
00:00:54
incredible. Looks amazing.
00:00:55
>> Thank you. So in this book, by the way,
00:00:58
we'll get into this and then we'll loop
00:01:00
back around and we'll get the whole
00:01:01
James Lachland story. So there's um
00:01:03
seven truths of high performance and in
00:01:06
in those seven truths, 27 principles.
00:01:09
>> Yeah.
00:01:09
>> Yeah. Little micro principles. I think
00:01:11
that often when we learn learning in big
00:01:14
chunks is difficult. So I like to break
00:01:15
it down into what are the micro
00:01:16
principles. There's seven key habits
00:01:18
there of high performers and then
00:01:19
there's little principles and I almost
00:01:21
look at that like a daily you learn
00:01:22
something a day. It might take you a
00:01:24
month to read the book, one a day and
00:01:26
you're pretty much through it.
00:01:27
>> Yeah. So, let's run through these.
00:01:29
Number one of the seven truths, get
00:01:31
radically clear. What does that mean in
00:01:32
a nutshell?
00:01:33
>> Look, when I ask people what do they
00:01:34
want, they usually start with um you
00:01:37
know, what do you want out of life? What
00:01:38
do you want out of your work? What do
00:01:40
you want to be as a a parent, as a
00:01:41
partner? Um when people start with um
00:01:43
they have no idea. They have no clue.
00:01:45
So, it's about getting radically clear.
00:01:46
The people that I work with that are the
00:01:48
best in the business, they can say it's
00:01:49
on the tip of their tongue. So getting
00:01:51
radically clear on what success looks
00:01:52
like to you, not to social media, not to
00:01:55
your next door neighbor, not to your
00:01:56
mom, but but to you. And so taking the
00:01:58
time to get clear on what you want.
00:02:00
>> What percentage of people don't know?
00:02:02
>> Oh, I would say like 90 plus% of people.
00:02:04
>> Okay.
00:02:04
>> So if anyone doesn't know, they
00:02:05
shouldn't feel bad about it.
00:02:06
>> No, like join the club. Like for about
00:02:09
90% of my life, I had no clue what I
00:02:10
wanted.
00:02:11
>> And it takes time to sit down and get
00:02:12
out of your head and onto the page. uh
00:02:15
because most of us are stuck in our
00:02:16
heads and going around in circles and
00:02:18
chasing things and keeping up with the
00:02:19
Joneses.
00:02:20
>> So I think slow down, take a breath and
00:02:23
just get clear on what success looks
00:02:25
like. And
00:02:26
>> you got to think big, but I suppose not
00:02:27
unreasonably big. Like for example, I I
00:02:30
can't be the all black captain now.
00:02:31
Probably
00:02:32
>> give it a crack. I'd love to see it,
00:02:33
man. I'd love to see that.
00:02:36
>> Uh number two on these seven truths,
00:02:38
supercharge your belief systems.
00:02:40
>> Yeah. So Dom, you're full of BS belief
00:02:43
systems. We've all got it. Can I ask you
00:02:45
something?
00:02:46
>> Yeah.
00:02:46
>> Don't be kind to me. Just say what you
00:02:48
think. What's the first thing that comes
00:02:49
to mind when you think of an Irishman?
00:02:54
>> No, I can't say it. I'll alcoholic.
00:02:57
>> Bang on. Brilliant. Any other things
00:02:59
come to mind?
00:03:00
>> Oh, no. Just fun fun people. Um, they
00:03:04
love to fight.
00:03:04
>> Yeah. Fiddly potatoes.
00:03:06
>> Yeah.
00:03:06
>> Right. We've got
00:03:07
>> Oh, this is terrible. I got to edit this
00:03:08
out.
00:03:09
>> No, keep it in. These are the things I
00:03:11
would call your BS. They're your belief
00:03:13
systems. Look, we've got those sitting
00:03:14
at our subconscious minds about work,
00:03:16
about our strength, about our fitness,
00:03:18
about our finances. We've got those
00:03:20
beliefs. If someone was to say, "Luxen,
00:03:23
people have BS belief systems about
00:03:25
leaders, about money. I don't know what
00:03:27
you think about money, but I believed
00:03:29
growing up in a working-class town in
00:03:31
Northern Ireland that money doesn't grow
00:03:33
on trees." Now, that did not help me.
00:03:35
That did not serve me at all. So, BS is
00:03:37
something that high performers are very
00:03:39
clear on. What beliefs do they need to
00:03:41
have to achieve what they want? So, you
00:03:43
know, saying is believing and achieving
00:03:46
begins with believing. You've got to
00:03:48
work on these things internally before
00:03:49
you start taking action.
00:03:51
>> It's funny that you should use the line
00:03:52
money doesn't grow on trees because that
00:03:54
was like a mantra in our household as
00:03:55
well. We asked for money and it's um you
00:03:58
look back now and it definitely creates
00:03:59
a scarcity mindset, doesn't it?
00:04:00
>> It really does. And I I always I was
00:04:03
working in a hotel. It was my first job
00:04:05
uh a beastro waiter in the mornings and
00:04:07
uh minimum wage and I'd always managed
00:04:10
to spend the money each week. I had no
00:04:12
money left over, lots of week left over
00:04:14
at the end of the money.
00:04:15
>> And I was going, "Okay, what what do we
00:04:17
do?" And so I actually read a book. It
00:04:19
was called uh the one minute
00:04:20
millionaire. And I felt a bit weird
00:04:22
reading. I felt a bit guilty. I was
00:04:24
like, "I shouldn't be reading this. This
00:04:25
is we're not millionaires around here."
00:04:27
>> But it shifted my thinking. And just one
00:04:29
book was enough to re reshift my belief
00:04:32
system majorly at 18 19
00:04:34
>> and so everyone listening go and get
00:04:36
that book.
00:04:36
>> Yeah. Well, get habits of high
00:04:38
performers first. And then number three
00:04:41
in the uh seven truths of high
00:04:43
performers uh lead your life on purpose.
00:04:46
>> Look, purpose is this word that I think
00:04:48
is almost I think it's been used a lot
00:04:51
and it's it's it's losing what it's all
00:04:54
about in terms of its substance. So when
00:04:56
you look at purpose, people who have
00:04:58
purpose get out of bed easier in the
00:05:00
morning. People who have purpose live
00:05:02
longer. Their health span and their
00:05:03
lifespan increases. They do better work.
00:05:06
They connect better with others. They
00:05:07
have more fulfillment. They on average
00:05:10
have less substance abuse, less
00:05:12
alcoholics, less drug addicts when
00:05:14
there's purpose involved. So I'm deep on
00:05:17
purpose. I I spent a lot of time
00:05:19
thinking about what's mine. What is it
00:05:21
today?
00:05:22
>> Because all of us, Dom, have a purpose
00:05:23
every single day. It could be to get up
00:05:26
and feed the dog. It doesn't need to be
00:05:27
this massive change the world thing.
00:05:29
>> And for a long time in my 20s and early
00:05:31
30s, that's what it was like. How do I
00:05:33
change the world? What's my big thing?
00:05:34
How do I do what Mandela did? I'm never
00:05:36
going to do that, but I can do a little
00:05:38
bit. And so high performers get clear on
00:05:40
why am I doing this? Why am I in the All
00:05:42
Blacks? Why am I pushing myself to go to
00:05:45
the Olympics? And when they get clear on
00:05:46
that, like they get clear on their why.
00:05:48
The how is easy.
00:05:50
>> So lead your life on purpose. I think
00:05:51
it's something we should all focus on.
00:05:54
>> The next one, uh, multiply your
00:05:56
motivation.
00:05:57
>> So someone will come and say, "Hey, Dom,
00:06:00
just don't talk to me. Don't talk to me
00:06:02
until I've had my coffee. Like I need a
00:06:03
coffee like in the mornings." Is that
00:06:05
you, Don?
00:06:06
>> Yeah. Yeah, it is. Oh, no. Actually, no.
00:06:09
No, it's not. To be fair, I I like the
00:06:10
taste, but I don't think caffeine does
00:06:12
anything tangible to me.
00:06:13
>> There we go. That's That's what I say to
00:06:15
people. Don't give up your coffee.
00:06:17
>> Drink coffee cuz you love it. And the
00:06:19
smell, like the old espresso machine, I
00:06:21
love that smell, right? But I don't need
00:06:23
caffeine. High performers don't need
00:06:25
motivation
00:06:26
>> externally. They don't need the prizes.
00:06:28
They don't need the big awards. You
00:06:29
know, Scotty Sheffller recently said
00:06:31
like, "This is not about the winning. I
00:06:33
don't I don't care if I win another one.
00:06:34
It's not what it's about. It's the
00:06:36
process. It's the commitment. It's the
00:06:37
discipline.
00:06:38
>> So intrinsic motivation is just import
00:06:41
is more important than exttrinsic. You
00:06:43
know when you you walk through u the
00:06:44
airport here in New Zealand and you
00:06:46
might see someone with a backpack and on
00:06:48
the backpack they've got their koru um
00:06:51
coro what's it called? A gold elite
00:06:52
stat.
00:06:53
>> Yeah. The little tag
00:06:55
>> that doesn't need to be on that bag.
00:06:56
>> They don't need that to get through
00:06:57
anything. But what they're telling
00:06:59
people is
00:07:00
>> I've got a bit of status. And that
00:07:02
doesn't make it right. Doesn't make it
00:07:03
wrong. doesn't make it good or bad. It
00:07:04
just is. But for that person, they've
00:07:07
got quite a bit of extrinsic motivation
00:07:09
around status.
00:07:10
>> I'm pretty sure I've still got that tag
00:07:11
on my back. Even though even though I've
00:07:13
been um downgraded to silver this year,
00:07:16
>> I don't believe that, Dom,
00:07:17
>> what a loser.
00:07:18
>> Lifetime gold elite right there.
00:07:21
>> Um, next one. Oh, this is really boring.
00:07:23
Do the work.
00:07:24
>> Yeah,
00:07:25
>> do the work is boring. I think about
00:07:27
doing the work as, you know, you've got
00:07:29
to discipline your inner domain to
00:07:32
dominate the outer domain. So if you
00:07:34
want to become the next big CEO, if you
00:07:37
want to get that big increase in your
00:07:39
salary, if you want to become the best
00:07:40
podcaster in New Zealand, you've got to
00:07:42
work on yourself and do the work and not
00:07:45
tell people about it. This whole thing
00:07:46
of, you know, there's an amazing guy in
00:07:48
the US who 4 a.m. he takes a photo of
00:07:50
his um watch, puts it up. I don't
00:07:53
believe in that. just do the work in the
00:07:54
dark
00:07:55
>> and then shine in the light. So,
00:07:56
whatever you're working on, just do it.
00:07:58
Do it for yourself. Work on it. You
00:07:59
don't need to tell everybody about
00:08:00
everything.
00:08:01
>> So, do the work. Get on with it. You
00:08:03
know, don't be a talker. Be a walker.
00:08:06
>> Yeah. One thing I found from um doing um
00:08:09
my podcast and speaking to a lot of um
00:08:10
you know, high achievers and very
00:08:12
successful people. Hard work is the only
00:08:13
cheat code there is. That's that's
00:08:15
probably the one thing they all have in
00:08:16
common.
00:08:16
>> I agree. Life rewards effort, right?
00:08:18
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:19
>> You're no different. How many years have
00:08:20
you been in broadcasting and
00:08:21
broadcasting?
00:08:22
>> Uh like 30 something years. Yeah,
00:08:23
>> you're not an overnight success. You
00:08:25
worked your butt off
00:08:26
>> and now you're at the top of the game
00:08:27
and everyone's looking to do going, "How
00:08:29
do we do that?"
00:08:30
>> You just work really hard for a really
00:08:32
long time
00:08:32
>> and still learning. I think that's the
00:08:35
key. Eh,
00:08:35
>> yeah, 100%.
00:08:36
>> Uh, next one. Number six in the seven
00:08:38
truths of high performers from your
00:08:39
book, Habits of High Performers. Focus
00:08:41
on your priorities.
00:08:43
>> Dom, how many times do you hear people
00:08:45
say, "I'm just so busy. I'm so busy
00:08:47
right now." Often, right? So, I had a
00:08:49
client come to me working with him for a
00:08:51
while. James, I'm just so busy. that's
00:08:52
why I'm not getting the results in the
00:08:54
business. I like give me your phone. And
00:08:56
he kind of goes, "What do you mean?" I
00:08:57
said, "Give me your phone." So, let's
00:08:58
get the screen time up. So, we get the
00:09:00
screen time. He's looking a bit nervous
00:09:02
at this stage, Tom. And we go through
00:09:04
and I said, "Okay, so mate, how many
00:09:07
clients did you get on Facebook?" He
00:09:10
went, "Uh, none." I was like, "Ever? No.
00:09:13
None. No clients ever." No. Why did you
00:09:15
spend seven hours and 51 minutes this
00:09:16
week on Facebook? Face goes red. I like
00:09:19
Okay, Tik Tok. How many clients did you
00:09:21
get on there? James, I'm in financial
00:09:22
services. None. I like, well, you spent
00:09:25
seven hours and 13 minutes on there.
00:09:28
>> So, people who are high performers focus
00:09:30
on their priorities. They're not busy.
00:09:32
They're busy being productive and
00:09:34
getting clear on what they don't do,
00:09:35
what they won't touch. Their morning
00:09:37
routines are solid. You know, I look at
00:09:39
your morning routine. I see you up.
00:09:40
You're running. I looked at your Strava.
00:09:42
You're consistently committed to it.
00:09:43
High performers focus on what matters
00:09:46
most.
00:09:47
>> Do you have a strict morning routine? of
00:09:49
a a morning routine that just gets me
00:09:50
going.
00:09:51
>> Yeah. What is it? What is the the
00:09:52
optimum optimum routine for you?
00:09:55
>> Yeah. So, I read a book uh I'm a big
00:09:57
reader. I love reading it called The 5
00:09:58
a.m. Club.
00:09:58
>> Oh, Robin Sharma.
00:10:00
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:00
>> Who also wrote a um a little um is it a
00:10:03
review for your book? He did. A little
00:10:05
comment at the beginning. Yeah. I was
00:10:06
going to ask how you got how you got
00:10:07
Robin Sharma over the line.
00:10:08
>> H Robin's a good mate. Yeah. He's an
00:10:10
incredible guy. I met up with him
00:10:11
actually two weeks ago in Cape Town just
00:10:13
to talk about life and writing and
00:10:14
leadership and the things that him and I
00:10:16
geek out on. But he wrote that 5 a.m.
00:10:18
club and it really got me thinking about
00:10:20
how important the morning is. So for me
00:10:22
it's between 5 and 520 I'll get up.
00:10:25
First thing I'll do is I'll not get up.
00:10:27
I'll turn the light on. I'll grab my
00:10:28
journal and I'll start writing what I'm
00:10:30
grateful for. So this morning in the
00:10:32
hotel I'm grateful for Dom Harvey for
00:10:34
hosting me, for having me on the show.
00:10:36
I'm grateful for Finn, grateful for
00:10:37
Caroline. The simple things that you're
00:10:38
truly grateful for. Uh I'll then focus
00:10:41
on what's most important for the day.
00:10:43
I'll get up. I'll stretch. I'll drink a
00:10:45
lot of water with lemon. alkalize the
00:10:47
body. Uh then I'll meditate for about 15
00:10:49
20 minutes. Uh and then if I've got
00:10:51
time, I'll do a little yoga session or
00:10:53
resistance training in the morning and
00:10:55
then it's straight into it. So it
00:10:56
doesn't take long. It'll be 40 50
00:10:58
minutes. But when I don't do that
00:11:00
because I'm very imperfect,
00:11:02
>> I feel different. I don't feel
00:11:03
energized. The the day goes a bit
00:11:05
sluggish. So morning routines are
00:11:07
important. What about what about yours?
00:11:09
>> Is it a Monday to Friday for you or is
00:11:10
it
00:11:11
>> every So even on the weekend, I don't
00:11:12
believe in sleepins, you know. I just
00:11:14
routine is everything. And when you look
00:11:15
at the biology, having a sleep in screws
00:11:18
you up. Like keep to the routine. So
00:11:20
even on the weekend, I'm up bright and
00:11:21
early. I've got dogs, so they're a cat,
00:11:23
so they're at the door like feed us.
00:11:25
Let's go for a walk. I've got no excuses
00:11:27
to to sleep in. Matt,
00:11:29
>> you you asked what about mine? Um I I
00:11:32
love sleeping in a I love I love like
00:11:35
waking up fresh and then rolling over
00:11:36
and sleeping in, especially when it's um
00:11:38
raining outside like it is now. Um, but
00:11:40
I I find the the busier I get, like in
00:11:42
the past year, I've set up this um
00:11:44
business called Pod Lab, where this is
00:11:46
the studio we're sitting in now. So, I
00:11:47
do my podcast here. We help make
00:11:49
podcasts for other people. In order to
00:11:51
get everything done that I want to get
00:11:53
done professionally and personally, I
00:11:54
just need to get up earlier.
00:11:56
>> So, it's non-negotiable.
00:11:58
>> Yeah. And and well, it makes sense if
00:12:01
you get up at 5:00 a.m. like you're
00:12:02
doing, you just you get a jump on the
00:12:04
day. You have a couple of, you know, a
00:12:06
couple of hours ahead of everyone else.
00:12:08
compounding time. That's 5 hours a week,
00:12:10
20 hours a month.
00:12:11
>> You get months and years back of your
00:12:14
life.
00:12:14
>> And I go to bed early, you know? So, I'm
00:12:16
in bed quarter to 9, maybe quarter past
00:12:19
at latest, reading, journaling,
00:12:21
meditating. So, I book end the day with
00:12:22
the same boring stuff. And when people
00:12:25
look at high performers, it's you know,
00:12:26
when I sit down with you some of the
00:12:27
great guests you've sat down with, their
00:12:29
routines are boring as hell.
00:12:31
>> But that's what creates results. M and
00:12:34
um was that were we going through the
00:12:37
seven truths in your book? Was was that
00:12:39
one just do the work? Was that focus on
00:12:40
your priorities?
00:12:41
>> Yes. So focus on your priorities. Yeah.
00:12:43
>> Okay. And last one, take no shortcuts.
00:12:45
>> Yes. So delayed gratification is the
00:12:47
key. We were just chatting with one of
00:12:48
your incredible colleagues about his
00:12:51
generation, Gen Z. And I've got, you
00:12:54
know, a Gen A child. Uh so delay
00:12:57
gratification is something they're going
00:12:58
to have to embrace. Why? They're in a
00:13:00
world that moves fast. They're in a
00:13:02
world that you can download anything and
00:13:03
everything. You can watch Tik Tok things
00:13:05
that will teach you how to do anything.
00:13:07
That's not where great success is found.
00:13:09
It's found in going slow. It's found in
00:13:11
taking those shortcuts. Reverse
00:13:13
engineering success. Get clear on what
00:13:15
you really want. That was the very first
00:13:16
one. And then reverse engineer it.
00:13:18
>> Anything I bet you've ever done, you've
00:13:19
got I want to go to that marathon.
00:13:21
>> Okay, it's on this date. I'm going to
00:13:23
run with Kipogi
00:13:24
>> and I've got to reverse engineer and go
00:13:27
tomorrow we'll do 3ks, then five, then
00:13:28
10.
00:13:30
>> Everything is the same. There's no
00:13:31
shortcuts to success. I've I'm yet to
00:13:33
see it.
00:13:34
>> Yeah. I think that's one thing I love
00:13:35
about the um the discipline of marathon
00:13:36
running.
00:13:38
>> I get people asking me all the time like
00:13:39
how to do it and you know what's the
00:13:41
longest run they should do? And I'm like
00:13:42
you you can get by on minimal training
00:13:44
but it's going to be a horrible horrible
00:13:46
day. If you want to half enjoy the day
00:13:49
um you want to sort of train relatively
00:13:51
properly.
00:13:51
>> Yeah.
00:13:52
>> Yeah. But yeah, everything's instant.
00:13:54
How old are you?
00:13:54
>> I'm 39 almost 40.
00:13:57
>> Man according to my child.
00:13:58
>> I'm 52. I like I remember a life without
00:14:01
>> you're looking damn good man.
00:14:03
>> I remember a life with like pre-
00:14:04
internet everything's at your fingertips
00:14:06
now. E that instant gratification piece.
00:14:08
There's very little things in life now
00:14:09
that involve delayed gratification.
00:14:11
>> But the best you look at Arthur C.
00:14:13
Brooks and he wrote an amazing uh book
00:14:15
called Build the Life You Want. Him and
00:14:16
Oprah Winfrey co-authored it. And he
00:14:19
said we all want happiness. Doesn't
00:14:21
matter who we are. We actually all want
00:14:22
to feel happy. He said in my research
00:14:24
there's three things that help us be
00:14:27
happy. One, the pursuit of enjoyment.
00:14:30
So, doing fun things, having hobbies,
00:14:31
hanging out, you know, have the beer
00:14:32
with your best mate, whatever it might
00:14:33
be. The the pursuit of satisfaction. And
00:14:36
we only get satisfaction when we do hard
00:14:39
things. So, take the stairs.
00:14:41
>> Got the elevator. Nice. But when you go
00:14:43
12 floors up and walk out the elevator,
00:14:45
there's no sense of satisfaction. But
00:14:47
you do the 12 flights of stairs, you're
00:14:49
tired, you're sweating, and you feel
00:14:50
satisfied. The last but not least, in
00:14:53
the pursuit of meaning or purpose. So
00:14:55
those three things, if we are doing one
00:14:57
of those three things, he says we feel
00:14:59
happy when we're doing it. So always
00:15:01
take the stairs. Don't take shortcuts.
00:15:04
>> I love that. I am a stair climber.
00:15:06
>> There you go. I see that. You look
00:15:07
great. You know,
00:15:09
>> my girlfriend hates it. Like if we're if
00:15:10
we're at the event cinema, there's
00:15:12
stairs in the middle and then there's
00:15:13
escalators going up and down. She'll
00:15:15
always take take the escalator and I'll
00:15:17
I'll take the stairs. I've noticed my
00:15:18
mom does it as well actually. She's in
00:15:20
her 70s.
00:15:20
>> And has she got good mobility?
00:15:22
>> Yeah, she Yeah, she still runs. Yeah.
00:15:23
>> Does it surprise me? M
00:15:24
>> I mean always take the stairs. It will
00:15:26
give you a longer life. Chat with a lot
00:15:28
of longevity experts. I want to be here
00:15:29
for as long as I can.
00:15:31
>> And you know movement, walking, uh
00:15:34
strength training where you can, yoga,
00:15:36
but just move your body. We sit we sit a
00:15:38
lot. You and I'll be sitting here for an
00:15:39
hour at least. So after this, I want to
00:15:41
go move my body.
00:15:42
>> Yeah, 100%.
00:15:43
>> So um hey, thanks for sharing those. So
00:15:45
that's um the seven truths of high
00:15:47
performers from your new book, Habits of
00:15:48
High Performers. Um that's great. If
00:15:51
anyone wants um further detail and drill
00:15:52
down on all of them, just buy the
00:15:54
[ __ ] book. It's great. Um yeah, what
00:15:57
does high performance actually mean to
00:15:58
you and how is it different from being
00:15:59
successful?
00:16:00
>> Oh, great question. So, when I look at
00:16:02
high performance, I I need to be able to
00:16:04
define that. So, I work with people,
00:16:06
whether they're corporates or athletes,
00:16:08
how do we define high performance? Well,
00:16:09
for me, it's easy. Consistently
00:16:11
exceeding norms whilst maintaining
00:16:13
healthy relationships and well-being.
00:16:16
that last part of it, I didn't care
00:16:18
about it in the first. Like when I was
00:16:20
going towards trying to win world
00:16:21
championships, all I wanted to do was
00:16:22
win. I didn't give a damn about my
00:16:24
health and my relationships were
00:16:26
definitely second. And so I was winning
00:16:29
world championships, but my
00:16:31
relationships were doing this and my
00:16:33
marriage ended in divorce.
00:16:34
>> So that's not high performance. That's
00:16:36
winning in one part of your life,
00:16:37
>> right?
00:16:38
>> Cuz you sort of had a onetrack mind.
00:16:39
>> 100%. Radical obsession is what I would
00:16:42
call it. I wanted to win the world. I
00:16:44
wanted to win the world. and I would
00:16:45
work harder than anyone. I'd go go into
00:16:48
the dark, do the work, tell nobody,
00:16:50
practice. And they came at a cost. So
00:16:53
that's what I would say high performance
00:16:54
is being able to achieve your goals
00:16:56
whilst maintaining not perfect, but
00:16:59
healthy relationships and well-being.
00:17:01
They're going to be tough times. They're
00:17:02
going to be crap times, but get them
00:17:04
back to being healthy again.
00:17:06
>> So that's that's high performance. And I
00:17:07
guess success is very contextual.
00:17:10
Everyone's got their own definition of
00:17:11
that. I think spending less time on Tik
00:17:13
Tok and Instagram is good. I look at
00:17:15
that and I'm like, God, I don't have
00:17:17
Dom's followers. Like, ah, you know,
00:17:19
that doesn't make me feel great. But
00:17:20
then I go, well, Dom's running. That's
00:17:21
inspiring. I I'll look at that stuff.
00:17:23
That's awesome.
00:17:24
>> Cuz there's a lot of people like
00:17:25
listening to this or watching this that
00:17:26
that might be successful in their eyes
00:17:28
or other people's eyes, and they're
00:17:30
probably like, "Well, I'm not getting up
00:17:31
at 5:00 a.m. and drinking lemon water."
00:17:33
>> Yeah. And neither should they. They
00:17:34
should define it for themselves.
00:17:35
>> Yeah.
00:17:36
>> Yeah. I'm not a big believer in
00:17:37
prescribing people. And, you know, I'd
00:17:39
rather have followers than disciples,
00:17:40
you know. Like I want people to make up
00:17:43
their own mind of what great looks like
00:17:44
to them. That's what's most important.
00:17:47
>> Yeah, 100%. I love that. Hey, so let's
00:17:49
go back and we'll learn a bit bit learn
00:17:52
a little bit more about you and your
00:17:53
backstory um and how you ended up in
00:17:55
this um career path and then we'll go
00:17:57
back to some tips that everyone else can
00:17:59
use. So you're from Northern Ireland?
00:18:00
>> Yes. Have you been?
00:18:02
>> No. No. I've never been to Ireland or
00:18:05
Scotland. Love to go. Love to go.
00:18:07
>> Dom, we got to get you across there.
00:18:08
It's gorgeous.
00:18:09
>> I love the Irish people. Yeah. Well, I
00:18:11
think Irish people are very similar to
00:18:13
Kiwis. You know, I think the number one
00:18:14
trait when I look at my family,
00:18:16
particularly my father and my
00:18:16
grandfather, humility is the most
00:18:20
important component of being from
00:18:22
Northern Ireland. And New Zealand is no
00:18:24
different. Humility is really rated in
00:18:26
this country. So, I love that. Growing
00:18:28
up in Northern Ireland, I was very aware
00:18:30
there was uh a conflict. There was a
00:18:32
divide between Protestants and
00:18:34
Catholics. Very, very clear. You know,
00:18:36
some towns had the British flag flying.
00:18:38
They were Protestant towns. and the
00:18:40
others had the Irish flag flying. They
00:18:41
were Catholic towns and most people
00:18:43
would stay in their own towns. Uh but it
00:18:45
would flare up. There'd be violence.
00:18:47
There'd be kneecappings. There would be
00:18:48
bombs, petrol bombs, bomb scares at your
00:18:50
supermarket. It was a very interesting
00:18:52
childhood. And I wanted to get out from
00:18:56
a very young age. And I love my family
00:18:58
and I miss them. But I wanted to get
00:19:00
out. I wanted to travel. And I was a
00:19:03
little [ __ ] at primary school. And thank
00:19:06
God for my headmaster who just turned 80
00:19:07
recently, Mr. Pollock. He said, "Boy,
00:19:10
enough's enough. You've got two options.
00:19:12
A wicked detention for what you've done
00:19:15
or a set of drumsticks." And he throws
00:19:17
these drumsticks at me. I go, "What's
00:19:19
the What's the catch, Mr. Pollock?" He
00:19:21
went, "No catch. Just a a whole term of
00:19:23
drum lessons. I'll pay for them." Okay,
00:19:25
cool. In my mind, I was going to be
00:19:26
Ringo Star, famous rock drummer. I was
00:19:29
going to get out of Northern Ireland. I
00:19:30
moved to LA. Awesome. 10 weeks past, and
00:19:34
he comes out marching into assembly.
00:19:36
There's five or six hundred of us in a
00:19:38
skirt. I'm like, "What the hell's my
00:19:39
headmaster doing in a skirt? This is
00:19:41
strange." Playing the bag pipes. This is
00:19:44
even stranger. Puts the pipes down. He
00:19:46
talks about the tartan kilton. He says,
00:19:47
"Where's James Lachland?" I reluctantly
00:19:50
put my hand up. He says, "Stand up." He
00:19:51
says, "Folks, this is the newest recruit
00:19:54
for the pipe band." So Dom always read
00:19:56
the fine print, my man. I didn't ask
00:19:58
enough questions. Ringo starred are now
00:20:00
wearing a skirt. Not so cool at 9 years
00:20:02
of age. But he took me aside. and he
00:20:04
says, "Sorry, I didn't give you all the
00:20:05
details, but this is a competitive sport
00:20:08
and you can be judged and you can go to
00:20:09
championships and I'm quite
00:20:11
competitive." So, I was like, I was into
00:20:12
that.
00:20:13
>> So, very fortunate. My dad took me along
00:20:14
to a bunch of competitions. My mom and
00:20:16
dad, I went to the World Solo Drumming
00:20:18
Championships and uh played in the
00:20:21
quarterfinals, uh played in the
00:20:22
semi-finals, and then going to the
00:20:24
finals. And uh as I'm about to go on, my
00:20:26
dad says, "Look, keep your feet in the
00:20:28
ground, mate. You know, don't set
00:20:29
yourself up for failure. Just do your
00:20:30
best. You might not win this." And I'm
00:20:33
thinking, well, if I go in thinking like
00:20:34
that, I've lost already.
00:20:36
>> And what he didn't know is I'd stolen my
00:20:38
cousin's cassette tapes of Tony Robbins.
00:20:41
So, I was listen to these mindset things
00:20:43
and you have to believe in yourself.
00:20:44
>> What age?
00:20:45
>> Uh, stole those at about 11.
00:20:48
>> That's interesting, isn't it?
00:20:50
>> I got nervous. I think nerves were a big
00:20:51
part and I still experience nerves. M
00:20:54
>> and so I wanted to
00:20:55
>> No, but I mean that's that's interesting
00:20:56
that um you'd be attracted to, you know,
00:20:59
self-work, selfm motivation, cassette
00:21:01
tapes at the age of 11.
00:21:03
>> Yeah. And I I bought the inner game of
00:21:05
it was called the inner game of music,
00:21:06
but Timothy Gway also wrote the inner
00:21:08
game of tennis, inner game of golf, all
00:21:10
about mindset. I wanted more than
00:21:13
anything like I was radically clear. I
00:21:15
want to win the world championships.
00:21:16
Like if I'm going to do this, I want to
00:21:18
be the best at it. And I just looked for
00:21:19
anything and everything to help me. And
00:21:22
I knew that my mindset wasn't strong. I
00:21:23
knew that I was nervous and I would
00:21:24
break down and I'd get sweaty hands and
00:21:26
>> so yeah, I just started looking for
00:21:28
options and found this big cassette tape
00:21:30
collection,
00:21:31
>> started geeking out on it
00:21:33
>> and uh yeah, at 13 I was fortunate to
00:21:35
win the World Solo Juvenile
00:21:36
Championships. Uh the the game the
00:21:38
following year that's where things got
00:21:40
exciting like I got a call from Christ
00:21:43
Church New Zealand. I had no idea where
00:21:44
New Zealand was. I said I put the hand
00:21:45
over the phone. Dad, where's New
00:21:46
Zealand? I had no idea. Do they speak
00:21:48
English there? Like where is it? And so
00:21:51
they uh yeah had an opportunity to come
00:21:52
down here and that's I guess that's the
00:21:54
next part of the journey.
00:21:57
>> One one question I've got stuck in my
00:21:58
back of my the back of my mind is um so
00:22:00
when you were attracted to drumming why
00:22:02
Ringo star and not say Larry Mullen Jr.
00:22:04
>> Ah I just thought Ringo was a legend. I
00:22:07
think I want to be like that guy.
00:22:09
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:10
>> He drives nice cars and he's pretty
00:22:11
cool.
00:22:11
>> Yeah. That's true. That's true. So what
00:22:14
does it mean to how do you how do you
00:22:15
become the the world's best drummer in a
00:22:18
like a a Scottish pipe band?
00:22:19
>> Yeah. Yeah, there's two two types, two
00:22:21
approaches. One's a solo champion, so by
00:22:23
yourself, and then one's a drum core, so
00:22:25
it's like a drum line, like American's
00:22:26
high school drum line type thing. So,
00:22:28
you can win one or both of those. Uh,
00:22:30
you're adjudicated a bit like figure
00:22:32
skating where you'll get up and perform.
00:22:34
Uh, the accompanist will be a bagpiper,
00:22:36
and it's very intricate, very detailed.
00:22:38
So, a lot like Phil Collins, for
00:22:39
example, uh would come to pipe band
00:22:41
drummers and learn how to become a
00:22:43
better technician. And of course, he's
00:22:44
one of the world's greatest drummers,
00:22:45
but he knows that pipe band drumming is
00:22:47
very technical. So, a lot of repetition,
00:22:49
a lot of practice on the basics. So, you
00:22:52
get up, you perform, it's anywhere
00:22:53
between four and eight minutes, and
00:22:54
you'd have several thousand moves and
00:22:57
dynamic articulations,
00:22:59
uh, with a slight bit of sweat or a bit
00:23:00
of nerves that turns to mush pretty
00:23:02
quick. Uh, and so you're adjudicated
00:23:04
with a panel of judges and, uh, yeah,
00:23:06
way you go. You either come first or not
00:23:08
so much. So, I I lost a lot more than I
00:23:10
won. I'll tell you that, Dom. Oh, like
00:23:12
all champions, it's like like like any
00:23:14
sport. If you look at the NBA like top
00:23:16
scoring list, there's the names that
00:23:18
you'd suspect up there. There's, you
00:23:19
know, Kobe, LeBron, MJ. Um, but they're
00:23:22
also on the the list of the, you know,
00:23:24
the NBA players that have taken the most
00:23:26
shots and lost as well.
00:23:27
>> Yeah, 100%. You've got to be in it to
00:23:28
win it.
00:23:30
>> So, yeah, being the best in the world in
00:23:32
anything is it's pretty cool.
00:23:34
>> Yeah, it was when I was 13 and I won, I
00:23:36
thought it was pretty awesome. It was um
00:23:37
it was it was a bit of a life-changing
00:23:39
moment to go, okay, I can pick
00:23:40
something. I can stick to it. I can
00:23:43
really practice hard and take a bit of
00:23:45
time and get an outcome that's positive.
00:23:48
So, from that point onwards, it really
00:23:49
changed the direction of my ambitions
00:23:51
>> and my life. It was Yeah, it was I was
00:23:53
lucky.
00:23:53
>> Yeah. What did drumming save you from?
00:23:56
>> Well, you know, a couple of friends, uh
00:23:58
lads in my town I went through primary
00:24:01
school with, you know, by their late
00:24:02
teens, uh they're in wheelchairs. Uh so
00:24:06
back in Northern Ireland um if young men
00:24:10
misbehaved
00:24:12
and uh the paramilitaries caught on to
00:24:14
it and weren't happy with it, they would
00:24:16
kneecap them. So they'd take them to an
00:24:17
industrial estate, shotgun, remove both
00:24:20
knees. And so this had happened to a
00:24:22
number of young men in my small town and
00:24:24
it happened all over Northern Ireland.
00:24:26
And I wanted to just get away from all
00:24:30
that. And there are many family members
00:24:32
I've got that are living a lovely
00:24:33
peaceful life there. But certainly, you
00:24:36
know, I was at the pub a lot. I was
00:24:38
drinking a hell of a lot in my late
00:24:39
teens. Mom and dad had just divorced. I
00:24:41
used it as an excuse to hang out with my
00:24:42
uncle and drink way too much beer on a
00:24:45
Saturday. And I wasn't hanging out with
00:24:46
a great crowd for the most part. And so
00:24:48
my pathway was not looking pretty. Uh
00:24:51
New Zealand uh and Canada uh both were
00:24:54
things that helped shape my my
00:24:56
direction.
00:24:57
>> Did you Google how often does
00:24:58
kneecapping happen in New Zealand?
00:25:00
>> I might do that now. I figured New
00:25:02
Zealand looks pretty peaceful. hadn't
00:25:04
watched until I'd been here for a year.
00:25:06
I hadn't watched Once We're Warriors and
00:25:07
then I watched that going, "Oh, Christ."
00:25:10
There is that It that happens here in
00:25:11
New Zealand in a different way. But
00:25:12
every country has its challenges, right?
00:25:15
>> So, how old were you were you how old
00:25:16
were you when you moved to Christ?
00:25:18
>> Uh, I was 19. So, yeah, I'd moved to
00:25:20
Canada initially to Simon Fraser
00:25:22
University in Vancouver. Had a pipe band
00:25:23
of all things. They were the world's
00:25:25
best. So, I got to go there for a
00:25:26
summer. Then a call from Christ Church
00:25:29
and uh an invitation to come down and
00:25:31
work with a couple of bands. uh one in
00:25:33
particular wanted to win the world
00:25:34
championships and be the first ever from
00:25:36
New Zealand. So I was pretty interested
00:25:38
in that and it was 12,000 miles from
00:25:39
Northern Ireland. So I thought this
00:25:40
would be a good chance to live away from
00:25:41
home.
00:25:42
>> Why not Scotland? Why don't you end up
00:25:44
in Scotland?
00:25:45
>> So that's the um the hub of um pipe
00:25:47
bands.
00:25:47
>> Interestingly I had two options. So two
00:25:50
invitations. One was Simon F University
00:25:53
Canada. The other was Field Marshall
00:25:55
Montgomery in Lisburn just outside
00:25:57
Belfast Northern Ireland. So 25 minute
00:25:59
drive was the world's best band and then
00:26:02
Vancouver, Canada was the other best
00:26:04
band. So I decided to get out, travel.
00:26:06
Scotland's still too close to home for
00:26:08
me. So I went to Canada, got a taste for
00:26:11
the Commonwealth, got a taste for living
00:26:12
a different life. And so I just thought
00:26:14
New Zealand looked like an awesome
00:26:15
option.
00:26:17
>> So what year was that that you moved
00:26:18
here?
00:26:19
>> 2005. So it's 20 years now.
00:26:22
>> Oh, so you moved to New Zealand other
00:26:24
Who do you know here?
00:26:25
>> So when I moved, I didn't really know
00:26:27
anyone. Uh I had a distant cousin who
00:26:29
had moved here uh but he was 20 years my
00:26:32
senior and doing his own thing. I moved
00:26:33
to Christ Church and it was the pipe
00:26:34
band community. It was the amazing pipe
00:26:36
band community and St. Andrews College.
00:26:38
They took me and they adopted me and I
00:26:40
was able to stay with people. Uh they
00:26:42
put me up. I was very fortunate. So was
00:26:44
like I arrived and had a massive
00:26:46
community and Kiwis are like that. Come
00:26:48
on, stay with me and we'll we'll hook
00:26:50
you up and we'll take you for a beer and
00:26:51
you know I felt right at home. I didn't
00:26:53
feel any homesickness at all. I would
00:26:55
never have. You found your tribe
00:26:58
>> 100%. Kiwi tribe.
00:26:59
>> Yeah. Oh, that's really cool. What about
00:27:02
transferable skills? Um, you know, how
00:27:03
did the discipline of competitive pipe
00:27:05
band drumming shape your leadership
00:27:06
approach?
00:27:07
>> Oh my god, so interesting. I had such
00:27:09
self-doubt and I'm sure there's
00:27:10
listeners and viewers with the same
00:27:11
thing. You've been in a career for x
00:27:14
amount of years and you go, "What else
00:27:16
can I do? Can I do anything else? Would
00:27:18
would I be appealing?" So, I got to like
00:27:20
30 and realized if I break an arm, like
00:27:24
my drumming career is over. So I was
00:27:25
James who played.
00:27:26
>> You could join D flip but
00:27:27
>> yeah true. Yeah that's very true. Get
00:27:29
the one arm drummer. I like that. Hey
00:27:31
and move over mate. I like it. But I got
00:27:35
worried. I got you know I just became a
00:27:37
dad at 30 and thought well my number one
00:27:40
thing is I got to provide certainty. Got
00:27:41
to have put food on the table. So I went
00:27:43
to Tago Polytech
00:27:45
>> and they have this thing called a
00:27:46
bachelor of applied management and it
00:27:48
allows you to look back over your life
00:27:50
and get a degree uh in your chosen
00:27:52
field. So for me it was management,
00:27:54
leadership, project management and uh I
00:27:57
was able to unpack the the little retail
00:27:59
business I had built uh the the
00:28:01
individuals and the bands that I had
00:28:02
helped go from where they were here to
00:28:04
winning the world championships. And so
00:28:06
it allowed me to see there's a lot of
00:28:07
transferable skills um you know
00:28:09
discipline, focus, setting clear goals,
00:28:12
reverse engineering success, teamwork,
00:28:14
camaraderie, building culture. If you
00:28:16
don't have those things, you mean you're
00:28:18
not getting the results. So yeah, I
00:28:20
learned those the hard way over many
00:28:21
years. Yeah, it's funny that you say
00:28:23
that cuz I found that with people uh
00:28:24
that have come on my podcast as well. If
00:28:26
someone's good at one thing, that's it's
00:28:28
not a fluke.
00:28:29
>> Um and they're generally going to be
00:28:30
good at something else because they've
00:28:31
got the the tools in the toolbox.
00:28:34
>> Success leaves clues, right?
00:28:35
>> Yeah, 100%. When you're uh looking at
00:28:38
for yourself, you know, with running,
00:28:39
>> you look at a great runner, a running
00:28:40
coach, they're they're able to apply
00:28:42
those lessons often in other parts of
00:28:44
their lives as well. You know, Kip
00:28:45
Chugi, I would say, probably has a
00:28:46
pretty successful life. M
00:28:48
>> you know Sam Whitlock I know intimately
00:28:50
very successful life great family his
00:28:52
kids love him his wife loves him his
00:28:53
greater family deeply respect him yet
00:28:55
he's able to get up do the bizo and
00:28:57
perform at the very highest levels so I
00:28:59
think people who know what the success
00:29:01
formula is apply across all areas of
00:29:03
their life
00:29:04
>> yeah Sam Whitlock the most kept all
00:29:06
black of all times I think is
00:29:08
>> 153 caps yeah
00:29:09
>> yeah is is he a friend or a client or
00:29:11
was he a client that became a friend how
00:29:12
do you know him intimately bit of both
00:29:14
uh so Chalky Carr introduced us chalk is
00:29:16
an incredible human who sadly passed
00:29:18
away too young, pancreatic cancer. So he
00:29:20
was a logistics manager in the All
00:29:21
Blacks and uh Sam was a new dad, I was a
00:29:23
new dad. So Freddy and my Finn are very
00:29:26
similar age. He said, "I'll introduce
00:29:27
you to Sam. You know, you're doing a lot
00:29:28
of thinking about being a new dad." And
00:29:30
so I just I met Sam, got to know him and
00:29:32
then he joined my mastermind, which is
00:29:34
like a round table of leaders from
00:29:36
different industries for four months. So
00:29:38
he'd turn up every couple of weeks and
00:29:39
we chat and share and challenge each
00:29:41
other. And uh after that became a friend
00:29:44
and yeah, I deeply respect Sam. Yeah.
00:29:45
Yeah. Have you had him on the show?
00:29:47
>> No. I'd love him on the show, though.
00:29:49
>> Let's make that happen. We've got to get
00:29:50
Sam Whitlock on the show.
00:29:51
>> Okay. I mean, yeah. Pick pick the brains
00:29:54
of someone like him with all he's been
00:29:56
through and um he's just a like a a well
00:29:58
of knowledge, isn't he?
00:29:59
>> Oh, he is. And a well of humility.
00:30:02
>> Yeah.
00:30:02
>> You know, with what he's done and what
00:30:03
he's won, you would never know it.
00:30:05
>> So low key.
00:30:06
>> Yeah. And that's I mean, that's why we
00:30:07
respect people like that.
00:30:08
>> Yeah. Would he even want to do something
00:30:10
like a podcast? Or is he like a mour
00:30:12
where just rather not? I'd rather do
00:30:14
anything than talk about himself.
00:30:16
>> He doesn't like talking about himself,
00:30:17
that's for sure. But Sam would it'll
00:30:18
take a bit of time. So it took me about
00:30:20
3 years to finally get him on my pod. Uh
00:30:22
but I'm sure we could we could work on
00:30:24
him.
00:30:24
>> That's good. I've got a number of guests
00:30:26
like that too that I've played the long
00:30:27
game with.
00:30:27
>> Good. Always play the long game, man.
00:30:30
>> Yeah. So, oh, so what was the retail
00:30:33
business you had when you Yeah, cuz
00:30:34
obviously um playing the drums in a pipe
00:30:36
band even at the highest level is not
00:30:38
going to pay the bills and put food on
00:30:39
the table, is it?
00:30:39
>> No.
00:30:40
>> So, what are you doing? What was your
00:30:41
business?
00:30:41
>> They're selling drums. So, all over
00:30:43
Southeast Asia, Australasia selling
00:30:45
drums, drumsticks, drum heads, drum
00:30:47
accessories. So, I thought, how can I
00:30:48
build a a business out of this passion
00:30:50
of mine?
00:30:51
>> Uh, so that's Yeah, that was a big focus
00:30:53
for many years.
00:30:54
>> So, how long were you in Christ Church
00:30:55
before the um the devastating
00:30:57
earthquakes happened? Like five years.
00:30:59
Six years.
00:30:59
>> A little. Yeah, six years. Yeah.
00:31:01
>> [ __ ] How was that?
00:31:02
>> Unbelievable. Yeah. You know, the first
00:31:04
one, middle of the night, I was like,
00:31:05
"What the hell is this?" And within
00:31:07
about 20 seconds of it shaking, I was
00:31:09
like, "I remember in geography in
00:31:10
Northern Ireland talking about
00:31:12
earthquakes." And we talked about
00:31:13
getting under desks. And so, I just got
00:31:15
up and my partner at the time, I was
00:31:16
like, "Get up. Like, let's move to the
00:31:18
doorframe." And honestly, Dom, it was
00:31:21
hell for months because every single
00:31:24
aftershock of the thousands of
00:31:25
aftershocks, I was thinking, is this
00:31:27
another big one? And of course in
00:31:29
February the next big one came. I was
00:31:31
teaching at St. Andrews at the time in a
00:31:33
really old rickety building which
00:31:34
thankfully has now been demolished. And
00:31:36
uh he had a young student there at the
00:31:38
time and they went to run out and had to
00:31:40
grab them by the leg and literally drag
00:31:42
them under the table because the
00:31:44
building was horrific. They were running
00:31:46
right through the building. So we sat
00:31:48
under the table until it stopped and out
00:31:50
we went. And after that things turned to
00:31:52
custard for months m for everyone you
00:31:55
know work home insurance
00:31:58
I went back to Canada with my partner at
00:32:00
the time thinking maybe we should be
00:32:01
living in Canada but going back there
00:32:04
and drawing up a pros and cons list even
00:32:06
with the damn earthquakes wanted to go
00:32:08
back to Christ Church.
00:32:09
>> It's just a great city. I'm glad I
00:32:11
stayed. So I don't know if you've been
00:32:12
down recently but it's looking awesome.
00:32:14
>> Oh every time I go down there
00:32:16
something's different. Something's
00:32:17
changed. There's still big buildings
00:32:18
here that need to be demolished that
00:32:19
haven't been demolished though. City.
00:32:22
Yeah. It's crazy how long it takes to
00:32:24
rebuild after something like that. And
00:32:26
how did you find it when all the Irish
00:32:27
came over to help with the rebuild?
00:32:28
Weren't they spreading STI everywhere?
00:32:31
Was that just living legend?
00:32:32
>> No, I did see that that same news
00:32:34
article that those Irish men were down
00:32:35
here doing silly things and get getting
00:32:37
silly things that they didn't come with.
00:32:38
Yes, I did see that. Wasn't proud of
00:32:40
that, but I thought it was great. Yeah,
00:32:42
a lot more Irish influx. And yeah,
00:32:44
actually weirdly I found out two years
00:32:46
ago I moved to Littleton and I move in
00:32:48
and one of my clients emails me going,
00:32:50
"You need to meet my uh Northern Irish
00:32:52
lawyer. He lives in Littleton." I said,
00:32:53
"Oh, cool." Send us we email connect us
00:32:56
emails and I get the phone number, ring
00:32:57
him up. I says, "Gareth. Gareth Glint
00:32:59
Denning." He went, "Yeah." I says,
00:33:01
"Belair High School." He went, "One and
00:33:03
only." I went, "It's James Lachland." I
00:33:05
said, "I just got your number from
00:33:06
Brett." I said, "You live in Littleton?"
00:33:07
He went, "Yeah." So we went to school
00:33:09
together. No idea he was in New Zealand.
00:33:11
I says, "Where do you live?" He says,
00:33:12
"On Day Road."
00:33:13
So do I. We're one house apart and we'd
00:33:16
never known. And he comes up the the
00:33:18
road and has a wee boy on his shoulders.
00:33:19
Who's this wee fella? Is it a little
00:33:21
son? He says, "This is Finn." Same name
00:33:23
as my son. So we hadn't seen each other
00:33:24
in 20 plus years and never knew where
00:33:27
each other went and living one door
00:33:28
apart. So I was glad that the Irishman
00:33:30
came. He's a lawyer. He's not a builder,
00:33:31
but um
00:33:33
>> yeah. The the Christ Church earthquakes
00:33:35
um I mean the mental health impact it
00:33:38
had on a lot of residents of the city is
00:33:41
um just massive. Yeah. How was it for
00:33:43
you personally?
00:33:44
>> It's the first time I ever went and had
00:33:45
therapy.
00:33:46
>> Yeah.
00:33:46
>> After that, you know, as you say that, I
00:33:48
took a big breath. Um I wasn't diagnosed
00:33:51
with PTSD,
00:33:53
but the certainly the symptoms I was
00:33:55
having uh were PTSDesque.
00:33:58
Uh so very stressed, drinking a [ __ ] ton
00:34:02
of alcohol, eating crap food, uh
00:34:04
constantly ruminating, worrying. Yeah. I
00:34:08
mean, I look at my mindset and all the
00:34:09
work that I've done on it, and it's the
00:34:10
the field that I'm in. And even with all
00:34:13
that, like when the earth moves and you
00:34:15
don't have that certainty, God, it it
00:34:17
just shakes you to the core. Um,
00:34:19
>> well, you realize how insignificant you
00:34:21
are. There's nothing you can do.
00:34:22
>> Totally.
00:34:23
>> You're at the mercy of mother nature.
00:34:25
>> Yeah. It's very humbling.
00:34:27
>> Yeah. I hope we've done our dash with
00:34:28
that and Christ Church can move on.
00:34:30
>> Yeah. The um Yeah. How was the therapy
00:34:33
experience for you?
00:34:35
>> Interesting.
00:34:36
>> Uh
00:34:37
sometimes I think in my younger years, I
00:34:39
was a bit skeptical. I didn't want to be
00:34:41
labeled. I think that there's a danger
00:34:42
when we label people with things and say
00:34:44
you've got this or you are this.
00:34:46
Sometimes it's more a response. So
00:34:48
post-traumatic stress response rather
00:34:50
than maybe a disorder. Depends on the
00:34:52
the individual. Uh so for me it was
00:34:55
liberating. It introduced me to breath
00:34:56
work. So that was 2011. And so I started
00:35:00
to dive into breath work and uh realize
00:35:02
that it's an amazing world and it helps
00:35:04
me with turbulence. I hate turbulence
00:35:06
and I'm sure you're the same, but I fly
00:35:08
a lot and it's just it's not fun. So I
00:35:10
use that uh being a parent I get
00:35:12
overwhelmed sometimes. Use breath work.
00:35:15
>> Yeah. In in simple terms for anyone
00:35:16
that's hearing this phrase for the first
00:35:18
time now um yeah how do you describe
00:35:20
breath work?
00:35:21
>> Yeah. So our body gets stressed our body
00:35:24
responds to things externally. So when
00:35:26
with the athletes I work with they they
00:35:27
are responding to on the field they are
00:35:30
responding to media social media and it
00:35:33
impacts their their nervous system. So
00:35:35
essentially we want to be in a
00:35:36
parasympathetic nervous system uh where
00:35:38
we are in a state of relaxation but
00:35:41
often when we're stressed it's our
00:35:43
sympathetic nervous system that fires up
00:35:45
so our breathing becomes shallow uh we
00:35:48
start to sweat heart rate goes up I
00:35:51
experience all of those things and so do
00:35:53
you. We all have both states
00:35:55
>> but knowing how to trigger them and turn
00:35:57
them on or turn them off is key. So with
00:35:59
rugby players I talk about tap on tap
00:36:02
off. You need to know when to turn it
00:36:03
on, when to turn it off. So for me, Dom,
00:36:05
if I'm about to go on stage and speak, I
00:36:08
will look at my my watch and my heart
00:36:10
rate will be 110 to 125 just standing
00:36:12
still. Like, God, I'm worked up. I'm
00:36:14
excited. Like I'm I don't call it nerves
00:36:17
anymore. I call it excitement.
00:36:18
>> And so I go to a toilet, sit down, and
00:36:21
breathe. And I'll just do extended
00:36:23
exhales. So
00:36:30
>> right away, I feel different. That's one
00:36:32
breath. Do that for 90 seconds. I'll
00:36:34
look down. I'm 90 beats per minute, 80
00:36:36
beats per minute. Heart rate will be
00:36:37
starting to to go down.
00:36:38
>> And I can think better. I can operate
00:36:40
with better decisiveness. So, there's
00:36:43
lots of different types of breath work.
00:36:44
Wimhof will get you fired up. Uh box
00:36:47
breathing that the Navy Seals and SAS
00:36:50
would use will get you focused and it's
00:36:52
just breathing in for four counts, hold
00:36:54
for four, out for four, hold for four.
00:36:57
And then the one that really gets you to
00:36:59
relax is just extending your exhale.
00:37:01
Make sure it's longer than your inhale.
00:37:03
So I do that a lot on turbulent flights.
00:37:05
That's for sure.
00:37:06
>> It's great. What's your relationship
00:37:08
like with nerves? I think nerves are
00:37:10
kind of good. They show you they show
00:37:11
you care. They can give you an edge.
00:37:13
>> 100%. When you're no longer nervous,
00:37:16
it's time to give up. So I experienced
00:37:19
that with drumming. It was my passion.
00:37:20
It's all I did. I drumed hours a day. I
00:37:22
was fortunate to to win what I did. But
00:37:24
it got to the point where I was just
00:37:25
like ah we'll be fine.
00:37:27
>> I was bored and the nerves were no
00:37:30
longer there. It's like we're going to
00:37:31
probably win the world champion national
00:37:33
championships. And it wasn't this kind
00:37:34
of arrogance thing but in internal I was
00:37:36
like we are so well prepared. We've got
00:37:38
so much depth a bit like you know canary
00:37:40
rugby some people might not like me
00:37:42
saying that but for years the depth
00:37:44
that's allowed them to do what they do.
00:37:45
You have this kind of confidence but
00:37:47
that confidence turned to complacency
00:37:49
for me
00:37:50
>> and I lost my edge and I no longer
00:37:52
wanted to perform. I didn't perform very
00:37:53
well and so it was time to find
00:37:55
something that got me nervous. So
00:37:58
there's this idea of performing under
00:37:59
pressure. I think that's BS. If you're
00:38:02
performing under pressure, so let's say
00:38:04
Dom Harvey's got pressure and then we
00:38:06
add a bit more and we add a bit more.
00:38:08
Eventually Dom's going to implode. The
00:38:11
best thing I do with clients is get them
00:38:13
to reframe that. Perform with pressure,
00:38:17
not under it, but with it. Bring it
00:38:19
alongside. Accept the pressure.
00:38:22
Make space for it. Say, "Hey, welcome."
00:38:24
Actually talk to your nerves. Welcome.
00:38:26
Good to see you. I'm glad you're here.
00:38:27
>> Take a breath. Let's go. We're going to
00:38:29
do this. You know, there's a acceptance
00:38:31
and commitment. Accept that you're
00:38:33
nervous and then commit to doing your
00:38:34
thing anyway.
00:38:35
>> Yeah.
00:38:35
>> It's important.
00:38:37
>> Thanks for that. And um who's your wife?
00:38:40
Did you marry a Kiwi?
00:38:41
>> So, actually, I married a Canadian,
00:38:43
right?
00:38:43
>> And so, we've parted away since. Uh but
00:38:45
my partner is Caroline. She's from South
00:38:47
Africa. So, yeah. No, no Kiwi.
00:38:50
>> Oh, so you're on to marriage number two?
00:38:51
Yes. So, not married yet, but uh that
00:38:53
could happen in the future.
00:38:54
>> Right. Right.
00:38:54
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:55
>> Oh, spoiler alert.
00:38:57
>> Yeah. Caroline, if you're listening to
00:38:58
this one.
00:39:00
>> So, what happened to the first one? Um
00:39:02
>> Dom, I love these like direct questions.
00:39:04
Give me it.
00:39:05
>> Yeah. Oh, no, no, no. I'm I'm just
00:39:07
thinking like there'll be some people
00:39:08
listening to this going, "Well, you
00:39:09
know, if you're if you're a high
00:39:10
performer and you're focused on success,
00:39:12
then you know, how do you cope with a
00:39:14
with a a massive perceived or otherwise
00:39:17
failure like that?"
00:39:18
>> Yeah. I like it because it is a failure.
00:39:20
like we can't dance around it. Like the
00:39:22
marriage failed and I was with a mentor
00:39:25
of mine and he was able to ask me
00:39:27
something. It's right around the
00:39:29
separation period. He was able to ask me
00:39:31
something that nobody else had asked.
00:39:33
Best friends, brother, dad, uncle. He
00:39:35
said, "James,
00:39:38
what responsibility do what
00:39:40
responsibility do you take?"
00:39:43
>> James, what did you learn about
00:39:44
yourself? Hey, James, what part did you
00:39:46
play in the failure? Like, whoa, bang,
00:39:48
bang, bang. He's like, give me it. I
00:39:50
said, "Man, I need to think about that.
00:39:51
That's a lot." So, I took like a month
00:39:53
to reflect. And there's a lot of
00:39:56
learnings because I was obsessively
00:39:58
focused on winning and performing. I
00:40:02
wasn't obsessively focused on nurturing
00:40:04
relationships, nurturing health. It was
00:40:08
way out of whack. And so, that
00:40:11
separation taught me a lot. There was a
00:40:13
lot of introspection. There's a lot of
00:40:16
lonely moments. Uh yeah, I mean I look
00:40:21
back on that and go that failure is
00:40:22
arguably the biggest teacher, the
00:40:25
biggest teacher I've had. Um made me get
00:40:28
in touch with my values. What do I
00:40:30
value? You know, how important are those
00:40:32
values? How do they shape the next step,
00:40:34
the next relationship? I'm very thankful
00:40:37
uh for my former wife. We've got a great
00:40:40
relationship. We are epic co-parents and
00:40:43
Finn's bonus mom, Caroline. The three of
00:40:45
us work so well together and I'm proud
00:40:47
of that. We've always worked well
00:40:49
together. We've maintained a good great
00:40:51
connection. So I think that there's uh
00:40:55
happy even after. You know that whole
00:40:57
happily ever after. There's happy even
00:40:59
after. Even after a separation it can be
00:41:01
good. And unfortunately it's not the
00:41:04
same for everyone. I I get that. So I'm
00:41:06
really fortunate that she decided to say
00:41:08
let's stay friends and respect each
00:41:10
other. And it's better for Finn. That's
00:41:11
for sure.
00:41:13
>> Sh. I love that so much actually. Um, a
00:41:15
therapist said the same thing to me once
00:41:17
like in in any situation, ask yourself,
00:41:19
you know, what was my role in this?
00:41:21
>> Um, yeah, and there's there's a book by
00:41:24
Jock Willink called Extreme Ownership,
00:41:26
which is the same the same sort of
00:41:27
thing. It's in any situation, just
00:41:29
owning your [ __ ] and owning what you can
00:41:31
out of it. It's um, it's really powerful
00:41:33
because it's very easy to blame the
00:41:34
other person for everything.
00:41:35
>> It totally is. And you and I spoke off
00:41:38
air beforehand like the person that
00:41:40
you're now separated with because let's
00:41:41
face it 50% of the people listening are
00:41:43
either have been through a separation or
00:41:45
will go through it. Statistically that's
00:41:47
what's going to happen.
00:41:48
>> So for you to be able to go actually at
00:41:51
one point I loved them. I seen a lot of
00:41:54
positive in them. So to always remember
00:41:56
that and look for the little bit of
00:41:58
goodness because at the end of the day
00:41:59
we are all good inside
00:42:01
>> and sometimes we get a bit rough and
00:42:02
rugged on the outside and get a bit
00:42:04
stressed or overwhelmed but everyone's
00:42:05
good inside. M
00:42:08
yeah. Yeah. It's just about finding that
00:42:09
thing. It's [ __ ] tough though, right?
00:42:11
It sucks. And um yeah, you'd be well
00:42:13
aware that, you know, you learn more
00:42:14
from your failures than your successes.
00:42:16
But um failure is never fun at the time.
00:42:19
>> Failure sucks. Falling on your face.
00:42:21
>> Never enjoyable.
00:42:22
>> It's [ __ ]
00:42:22
>> And when you're going through it, you
00:42:24
can't say, "I'm going to learn a lot
00:42:25
from this and it's going to be valuable
00:42:26
a couple of years from now."
00:42:27
>> No. When I went through that, I was
00:42:29
going, I need to have some more alcohol.
00:42:30
I need to get through this. And Don,
00:42:32
it's been 5 and a half years no alcohol.
00:42:33
Um and that's been great. Uh but for me
00:42:36
that was my coping mechanism. So I think
00:42:38
I've learned a lot about how I cope and
00:42:41
I coped pretty poorly and that was not a
00:42:43
high performance approach and I'm
00:42:45
learning to do better and uh give myself
00:42:47
a break and just try to be a bit better
00:42:49
each day.
00:42:49
>> Yeah. Oh, good on you. What what was the
00:42:51
catalyst for stopping the booze?
00:42:52
>> Um Caroline, my amazing partner, she was
00:42:55
out for a run. Uh she's a bit like you.
00:42:57
Loves to run often and I think she was
00:42:58
listening to Rich Roll and he was
00:43:01
talking about uh one year no beer. So
00:43:03
she came home. was drink co and she came
00:43:06
back in and uh she said uh I think I'm
00:43:08
going to do one year no alcohol. I laugh
00:43:11
good luck with that. That sucks. Like
00:43:13
I'll support you but I'm not going to be
00:43:14
doing that.
00:43:15
>> I exactly this is my identity right. So
00:43:19
she says okay. So that night we're
00:43:21
sitting watching Game of Thrones and I
00:43:23
says you know what as I'm drinking my
00:43:25
wine I think I'm going to join you. I'll
00:43:28
do one you know beer. My justifications
00:43:30
said I'm Irish. I like that's a problem.
00:43:32
So I says, "But we've got two bottles of
00:43:34
red wine and a bottle of gin in the
00:43:35
cupboard. We're not wasting those. Let's
00:43:37
get those drunk." So over the next 48
00:43:39
hours, those disappeared. And I had a
00:43:41
mega hangover. And I sat down, Dom and I
00:43:43
just wrote, why? I've done 30 days, no
00:43:45
alcohol. I've done the dry July, no
00:43:47
alcohol. Thought, why do I want to do a
00:43:50
whole year? And so I wrote a list. I
00:43:52
want to be a more present dad. I want to
00:43:54
be a more patient partner. I want to be
00:43:55
healthier. I'd like to live to 90 and
00:43:58
not die of some kind of liver thing. you
00:44:00
know, I'd like to be clearer in my
00:44:02
thinking. I'd like to be better for my
00:44:03
clients. Just wrote out a massive old
00:44:04
list and then one day at a time, stuck
00:44:06
at it and got to year one, went out for
00:44:09
a beautiful dinner with Caroline, just
00:44:11
said, "Should we order a bottle of don
00:44:12
or bottle of mole?"
00:44:14
>> He goes, "Yeah, let's have a look." And
00:44:16
then the waiter come over. I say, "Could
00:44:18
I have two handkeros, please?" Just no
00:44:20
desire. Lost the appetite for it
00:44:22
>> and learned how to have fun and
00:44:24
socialize and do all those things
00:44:25
without it. And
00:44:26
>> honestly, I feel way better for it. way
00:44:28
clearer, happier, more patient, all
00:44:30
those things I wanted. I'm finally
00:44:32
starting to see.
00:44:33
>> Well, the the life that you're living
00:44:34
now, uh, like getting up at 5:00 a.m.,
00:44:37
you just you're not doing that if you're
00:44:39
drinking, are you? You just can't you
00:44:41
can't do both.
00:44:42
>> No.
00:44:42
>> Something's got to give.
00:44:43
>> Um, you I was talking to someone about
00:44:45
this the other day, like the the um the
00:44:46
0% beers now are really good. Like
00:44:48
Asah's got a great one. He zero is
00:44:50
amazing.
00:44:50
>> Garage Project.
00:44:51
>> Yeah. You you if you're going out
00:44:54
drinking beers, you might drink seven,
00:44:55
eight, nine, 10, whatever. You're never
00:44:57
going to go out and drink like 10k and
00:44:59
zeros.
00:44:59
>> God help you if you do. You know, I
00:45:01
drink one of those bad boys, maybe one
00:45:03
and a half and you're like, I'm done
00:45:04
with that. It's It's amazing. Why is
00:45:06
that?
00:45:06
>> Well, it's the alcohol, isn't it?
00:45:08
>> Exactly. It's addictive, right?
00:45:09
>> It's the dopamine system. That hormone
00:45:11
fires up going, I want another one of
00:45:12
those. I want another one of those. I
00:45:13
feel good until you don't.
00:45:15
>> Yeah. And just so we're clear, I'm I'm
00:45:17
like I'm I'm still a drinker, but I'm
00:45:19
constantly uh reassessing and keeping an
00:45:21
eye on my relationship with alcohol.
00:45:23
just that there's things there's things
00:45:25
I want to get done and they they can't
00:45:26
sort of coexist.
00:45:27
>> I agree. I think that's it's a unique
00:45:30
for everyone. I don't want to be that
00:45:31
preachy guy that goes you should never
00:45:32
drink alcohol. I'm just like just
00:45:33
doesn't work for me. I have a better
00:45:35
relationship without it. But I've also
00:45:36
got great friends, family members and
00:45:37
clients who have a great relationship
00:45:39
and balance it and it's not negative. So
00:45:41
yeah, self-control.
00:45:43
>> So in terms of um adversity, so there's
00:45:46
the marriage breakup. Um there's the the
00:45:49
earthquakes which you're not alone with.
00:45:50
like thousands of people um endured them
00:45:54
um and I think the impacts are still
00:45:55
being felt to this day internally with
00:45:57
people um and um and you've lost a baby
00:46:01
as well.
00:46:01
>> Yes. Yeah. Actually um that was before
00:46:04
Finn
00:46:05
>> uh miscarriage and I'd heard the word
00:46:07
miscarriage before and as a man like we
00:46:09
don't talk about miscarriages like why
00:46:12
would we do that? uh but had a
00:46:14
miscarriage prefin and didn't really
00:46:16
appreciate just the impact it had. And I
00:46:21
remember calling my boss at the time and
00:46:23
I couldn't even speak. I I just in tears
00:46:26
I couldn't I couldn't get a word out.
00:46:27
And that's very unusual for me. I'm
00:46:29
usually pretty calm and collected, but I
00:46:33
I just couldn't I couldn't get my head
00:46:34
around it. And you know, still thinking
00:46:36
back on that, there's still emotion
00:46:38
there. I don't think that emotion will
00:46:39
ever leave. Um, and that I'm one of
00:46:42
billions of people that have been
00:46:44
through this, but yet it's something
00:46:46
it's almost like we're told not to talk
00:46:48
about it or we're not told to not talk
00:46:50
about it, but we all don't talk about it
00:46:51
because it's one of those things. It's
00:46:52
taboo almost.
00:46:53
>> We need to talk about it because the
00:46:55
mental health challenges that that comes
00:46:58
with, that kind of loss and grieving is
00:46:59
is significant. Uh, so I'm really
00:47:01
grateful for the people I had around me.
00:47:03
Uh, you know, I know people that went
00:47:05
through multiple miscarriages and I just
00:47:07
I can't I can't imagine it. So yeah, I
00:47:10
think it's just one of those things we
00:47:11
need to talk about. And uh when Finn
00:47:13
came along, you know, I was really
00:47:14
grateful, healthy little man. And now
00:47:16
he's a cheeky little boy. Uh very
00:47:18
grateful for that. But
00:47:20
>> yeah, that was it was very tough.
00:47:21
>> Yeah.
00:47:22
>> What are the um the biggest lessons from
00:47:24
all these adversities?
00:47:27
>> Well, look, I think first things first,
00:47:28
like my challenges and adversity are
00:47:32
just mine and they might be worse than
00:47:34
some people's and they might be not as
00:47:35
bad as others. I think we've all got our
00:47:37
challenges. cuz we can all look back and
00:47:38
go, "Shit, that was a tough time."
00:47:40
>> Uh, lessons,
00:47:43
keep getting back up. Keep swinging.
00:47:46
Like, if you're not dead, like, try
00:47:48
again.
00:47:48
>> And my grandfather often says like,
00:47:50
"Life's not a dress rehearsal." I'm
00:47:52
grateful that he's still around.
00:47:54
>> Get at it. Get after it. Like, you can't
00:47:56
sit and dwell on things and ruminate.
00:47:58
Move on. Move forward.
00:48:00
>> So, always have something positive to
00:48:01
look forward to. You know, I like to
00:48:03
always have a holiday on the horizon.
00:48:04
you know, uh catching up with a friend
00:48:06
or a good book. Always have something
00:48:08
positive to get you out of bed and move
00:48:10
move towards
00:48:11
>> and uh realize that failure is not the
00:48:13
end.
00:48:14
>> Like we all we're all screwing up. You
00:48:15
and me, we're going to do something
00:48:16
stupid today and screw up. We're going
00:48:17
to say something stupid or we're going
00:48:19
to do something.
00:48:20
>> That's cool if we're learning. Someone
00:48:22
once said to me, "James, how much dumb
00:48:23
tax do you pay?" Like, "What's dumb tax?
00:48:26
The hell?" It's when you make a mistake,
00:48:29
you don't learn from it, and you make
00:48:31
the same mistake again, and you don't
00:48:32
learn from it. And so you're the guy on
00:48:33
the fifth divorce. It's like, dude,
00:48:35
you're paying a lot of dumb tax.
00:48:38
>> I've never heard that before. I love it.
00:48:40
>> Yeah. It's simple, but it's like, okay,
00:48:41
I got to learn from my stupid shitty
00:48:43
mistakes.
00:48:43
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah.
00:48:46
Yeah. Yeah. Failure should be like a
00:48:47
stepping stone to success.
00:48:49
>> You hope so, right?
00:48:50
>> You need to figure out what Yeah. what
00:48:51
you can take from it. I love that. I'm
00:48:53
going to start using that dumb tax.
00:48:55
That's really good. Um Yeah. Um you've
00:48:57
mentioned your son Finn a couple of
00:48:59
times and uh you and I are mates on on
00:49:01
social media. Um, I probably spend more
00:49:03
time on social media than what you do.
00:49:05
Uh, but you seem like a real present
00:49:07
dad. Um, you seem really good with your
00:49:08
time management. So, when you're
00:49:10
working, you're working. When you got
00:49:11
family time, you're having your family
00:49:12
time. Um,
00:49:15
was that a turning point for you
00:49:16
becoming a dad?
00:49:17
>> My god, it was a pivotal point in my
00:49:20
life. Uh, I was very fortunate as a kid
00:49:22
to have a great relationship with my dad
00:49:24
and my granddad. And the thought of
00:49:25
being a dad, I was like, this is bloody
00:49:26
cool. This is this is a joy, a
00:49:28
privilege. And so, I made a choice when
00:49:30
Finn came along. I resigned and retired
00:49:33
from competitive drumming within about
00:49:35
six to 12 months because I knew what it
00:49:37
took to do that at that level and I
00:49:39
don't want to be that dad. I knew many
00:49:40
dads who were very competitive drummers
00:49:42
and many of them a large percentage were
00:49:44
not present
00:49:45
>> present with their kids at all. So
00:49:48
>> I really made a decision to go look I
00:49:49
want to be with Finn. I want him when
00:49:50
he's 30 to go I had a good dad. I don't
00:49:52
need to be a great dad. I don't need
00:49:54
need to be the best dad or the world's
00:49:55
best dad. I don't need those titles. But
00:49:57
for him to go nah he was a good dad.
00:49:58
>> That would be awesome.
00:50:00
>> So I spent a lot of time thinking about
00:50:01
that. done. Even when I'm traveling
00:50:02
about Finn and
00:50:04
>> you know, should I say yes to the gig?
00:50:05
Should I say no to the gig? Am I willing
00:50:07
to sacrifice the thing to make sure I'm
00:50:09
present for his important things? His
00:50:11
important things are different than
00:50:12
mine.
00:50:12
>> And so, yeah, it's a tough balance and
00:50:15
it's it's never easy. God, as a parent,
00:50:17
any parent listening to this will know
00:50:18
it's bloody tough when you're trying to
00:50:20
earn a crust and do what you got to do
00:50:22
and be with your kids and not be
00:50:24
distracted by these bloody digital
00:50:25
devices. And but um focus on Wii, what's
00:50:29
most important. That's crucial.
00:50:32
Did it force you to grow?
00:50:34
>> Yeah, exponentially.
00:50:36
>> Yeah. Patience is probably the biggest
00:50:37
thing, man.
00:50:38
>> I would say my mom could probably attest
00:50:41
this as a young kid, uneasy, like
00:50:45
impatient. Like, let's go. Let's do
00:50:46
things. Let's let's read a million
00:50:47
things. Let's meet people. Let's have 55
00:50:49
pen pals. Like, just constantly moving
00:50:52
and on edge. I could never settle. And
00:50:55
so when things or people weren't moving
00:50:58
at my pace, I get impatient. And I could
00:51:00
remember that as a leader, you know,
00:51:01
running a drum core, I was impatient.
00:51:04
>> And being a dad taught me like you've
00:51:06
got to be patient. If you want love and
00:51:07
connection when they're a teenager, you
00:51:09
don't want a rebel. Like you've got to
00:51:11
have that patience from the start. So
00:51:13
for me, it's about constantly using the
00:51:15
breath work when I feel like I'm going
00:51:17
to be impatient and bringing it back to
00:51:19
what does he need from me? You know,
00:51:21
what would being a better dad mean? M
00:51:22
>> once a year I've got a little thing on
00:51:24
my calendar. Ask Finn what he needs. So
00:51:26
I go, "Finn, what's one thing that would
00:51:28
I could do to be a better dad?" And I
00:51:30
give him once a year cuz most kids don't
00:51:31
ever say to be a better dad, you could
00:51:33
do. And he thinks about it and he often
00:51:35
gives me something really valuable. And
00:51:37
so I like how old is he?
00:51:40
>> Nine. Just turn.
00:51:41
>> I think at that age like a you know a
00:51:43
newer iPad or
00:51:45
>> those things time
00:51:46
>> that comes up daily, Don. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:49
I'm very strict on the old screen time.
00:51:50
That's for sure. But things like uh
00:51:55
travel,
00:51:56
>> you know, dad, I'd really like if you,
00:52:00
you know, around December, January, cuz
00:52:02
he's off for 8 weeks, there's less
00:52:04
travel. And when I heard that, I was
00:52:06
like,
00:52:07
when he's 19, it's too late.
00:52:09
>> He's nine. He told me this when he was
00:52:11
seven. I was like, great. So, all of
00:52:13
December, I don't travel. And right
00:52:15
through to the end of January, I don't
00:52:17
travel. Um because to work, I've got to
00:52:19
travel. Uh, but I just have to work
00:52:22
differently
00:52:22
>> because I want him to have he's only
00:52:24
he's a
00:52:25
>> only child. I want him to have the
00:52:26
connection with the people in his
00:52:27
family, not feel like his dad's on the
00:52:29
road. So, yeah, it's it's a balance.
00:52:31
It's always just trying to strike that
00:52:33
balance
00:52:34
>> because a lot of people would um do the
00:52:36
travel in December, January, and they'll
00:52:38
say, "Oh, you know, I need to put food
00:52:40
on the table. I need to get the lights
00:52:41
on it." Which is a nice line. Um, but
00:52:43
the reality is uh it's not always
00:52:45
entirely true, is it?
00:52:46
>> No, it's not. People can get addicted to
00:52:47
their work, addicted to the drive, the
00:52:49
dopamine.
00:52:50
>> Yeah.
00:52:50
>> Had a weird situation
00:52:52
>> came up in Cape Town
00:52:54
>> a few years ago. And so Sia Khesi,
00:52:56
Springbox captain, phenomenal human. Him
00:52:59
and his then wife had started a charity
00:53:02
called the Kesi Foundation with the goal
00:53:05
of ending gender-based violence in South
00:53:08
Africa, which is a huge issue there. And
00:53:12
I was sitting down with the foundation
00:53:13
in Cape Town. Caroline was there and
00:53:15
they said, "Look, James, we'd like you
00:53:16
to be the MC and host at the Spotify
00:53:19
headquarters in London, England, uh, for
00:53:21
SEA's new movie. It's going to be
00:53:23
released. We're going to do a screening
00:53:24
and we're going to have these special
00:53:25
guests." It's right before the spring
00:53:26
box and All Blacks, uh, Twickenham. I'm
00:53:29
like, Christ, like I'm so excited. The
00:53:32
old ego kicked in. Like, my god, that's
00:53:33
special. I want to be their Spotify
00:53:34
headquarters. Like, see a Kesia, this is
00:53:36
brilliant. And so I says, "Look, yes,
00:53:39
I'll do it in principle. Can I just
00:53:41
check my calendar?" So feeling really
00:53:44
grateful, really excited, head back to
00:53:46
the really quickly to Cape Town, get the
00:53:47
old laptop out, look at my work
00:53:49
calendar.
00:53:51
Huh, this is interesting. The event that
00:53:53
in London is within 24 hours of Finn's
00:53:56
first school production at the town hall
00:53:59
in Christ Church. Oh, Christ. And I'm
00:54:01
like,
00:54:02
>> FaceTime.
00:54:03
>> Yeah,
00:54:05
Finn, we need a chat, buddy.
00:54:07
I was gutted. So I had a little process
00:54:10
of sleep on it. I'm sure many of our
00:54:13
grandparents have just sleep on it
00:54:14
before you make the big decision. And
00:54:15
then I've got a really simple quadrant.
00:54:17
I call it VPOC. VPOC. Values,
00:54:20
priorities,
00:54:22
opportunities, and costs. So what are my
00:54:24
values? They don't change. What are my
00:54:26
priorities in order? They don't change.
00:54:29
Okay. If I go to this Kesi Foundation
00:54:31
event in London, what are the
00:54:32
opportunities that will come from that?
00:54:34
What are the costs? Mhm.
00:54:35
>> And then if I go to Finn's production
00:54:38
opportunities costs and it became really
00:54:41
apparent. So next morning I email Kesi
00:54:43
Foundation say thank you so much. I'm
00:54:45
super excited for this event.
00:54:47
However, I can't be there. I've got
00:54:49
another commitment and I can't shift it.
00:54:51
And they didn't need to know all the
00:54:52
details. It just is what it is. And when
00:54:54
I was sitting at the town hall, I was
00:54:56
like, I'm so grateful I made that
00:54:58
decision.
00:54:58
>> [ __ ] I know. I'm telling you. One
00:55:01
of my mates, Axel, said, "James,
00:55:02
absolute rubbish. I would have went to
00:55:04
Spotify. Um, no, honestly, mate, it's um
00:55:08
I did I felt really grateful. There was
00:55:10
no regret, no FOMO. I felt 100% with
00:55:15
that decision. It took 24 48 hours after
00:55:18
making the decision to go, God, I'm
00:55:19
still feeling a bit crappy.
00:55:20
>> I'm losing out. But by the time the
00:55:22
event came around now, this is it. It
00:55:24
aligns with my values, my priorities.
00:55:26
James 5 years ago would have been in
00:55:28
London for sure.
00:55:29
>> So, yeah.
00:55:31
>> It's funny. Jason Paris, the CEO of 1 NZ
00:55:35
on the podcast. Similar sort of thing.
00:55:37
So um 1NZ did a deal with um Elon Musk
00:55:40
and Starink. That's right.
00:55:41
>> And he was invited to some function to
00:55:43
do with either SpaceX or Starink. Um but
00:55:45
it it um clashed with his daughter's
00:55:48
prize giving or something um and he
00:55:50
turned it down.
00:55:51
>> I love that.
00:55:52
>> That says a lot because the Starlink
00:55:54
thing or whatever for me the Spotify
00:55:56
headquarters that could happen again in
00:55:58
the future. But the first school
00:56:01
production and Finn doesn't love sport.
00:56:03
Finn is into drama, singing, hip-hop,
00:56:05
dancing. He's awesome at it. That's his
00:56:07
passion.
00:56:07
>> Yeah.
00:56:08
>> That's not going to happen again, Dom.
00:56:09
Like, what kind of dad am I going to do
00:56:12
my thing? Missing that. I can say no to
00:56:14
that.
00:56:15
>> Yeah. You can't get the time back. I And
00:56:17
I think it crystallizes as as you get
00:56:19
older. Like the time goes so fast.
00:56:21
>> Yeah.
00:56:21
>> So fast. It's alarming.
00:56:22
>> Too quick.
00:56:23
>> So you um one of your sort of functions
00:56:26
is helping people find their purpose. So
00:56:28
um like what's yours now and how has it
00:56:30
changed over time?
00:56:31
>> M so I guess when you look at my
00:56:33
professional purpose uh for me it's
00:56:36
helping great people become the
00:56:37
greatest.
00:56:38
>> I really enjoy working with people who
00:56:40
are committed, disciplined, uh excited
00:56:43
about the future. They've got goals.
00:56:45
They work towards them. I want to help
00:56:47
them because not everyone has that.
00:56:49
That's a small percentage of people who
00:56:50
are really clear on what they want. So I
00:56:52
love helping them to close the gap.
00:56:54
That's, you know, high performers
00:56:56
becoming elite performers. Uh, so that's
00:56:58
that's my purpose is to help as many of
00:57:00
those people as I can in the corporate
00:57:01
world, in the sporting world, friends
00:57:04
and family around me. If I can help, I
00:57:06
don't have all the answers, but I can
00:57:07
ask some damn good questions and they
00:57:09
can figure out their own answers.
00:57:10
>> Did you did you did you may still even
00:57:12
have it um to this day from time to
00:57:15
time, but um did you have like imposter
00:57:16
syndrome in the the beginning? Like
00:57:18
obviously you've done some stuff like
00:57:19
you're a seventime world champion at the
00:57:21
drumming thing but then you're talking
00:57:23
to a Sam Whitlock who's you know world's
00:57:26
best rugby player which is you know
00:57:28
arguably more prestigious like um yeah
00:57:31
the imposter syndrome thing did that
00:57:32
kick in for you?
00:57:33
>> Yes and still have it. I don't think
00:57:35
that's ever going to disappear. I think
00:57:37
it's a spectrum and in different parts
00:57:39
of my life I've got it. So, perfect
00:57:42
example, Canterbury Rugby uh approached
00:57:45
me uh through Caroline actually and said
00:57:47
they were looking for a mental skills
00:57:48
coach and Caroline says um Terry and
00:57:51
Marty want to speak to you. I says,
00:57:52
"What about mental skills coach?" I
00:57:55
don't know much about rugby. Like I know
00:57:56
how the game works basically. I know
00:57:58
Ireland's pretty awesome team. I know
00:58:00
that's not popular in New Zealand. Uh
00:58:02
but what would I know? And so I met with
00:58:04
them and they says, "James, we'd love
00:58:05
you to come in. We've seen what you've
00:58:06
done with these other people in
00:58:07
different fields and individuals. we
00:58:09
think you could add some value at
00:58:11
Canterbury Rugby. I went, "Guys, I'm not
00:58:13
a rugby expert." They went, "Great. We
00:58:15
don't need another one of those. Got
00:58:17
plenty of them in the building at Rugby
00:58:19
Park. We need you to come and do what
00:58:20
you do." So, the day is coming. The day
00:58:22
is coming for my first mental skills
00:58:24
session in Rugby Park.
00:58:26
>> I'm [ __ ] myself and I'm sweating. I
00:58:28
mean, I'm even sweating, thinking back
00:58:29
to how I was feeling going in. So,
00:58:31
clearly I'm built like an equestrian
00:58:32
jockey. So, I'm walking into that
00:58:34
building. I look different. you know,
00:58:35
this tiny little guy and I'm going, what
00:58:38
are these big rugby legs, you know, all
00:58:40
blacks, crusaders, Canterbury men? What
00:58:42
are they going to think of this random
00:58:44
little Irish guy? Like, how much value
00:58:46
will I have? So, massive imposter
00:58:48
syndrome. And I said to the the coaches,
00:58:50
if I go in in this flops, you don't need
00:58:52
to keep me the entire season. Sack me
00:58:54
instantly. I don't want to be here and
00:58:55
waste people's time.
00:58:56
>> So, I went in and as soon as I got
00:58:58
there, person at the reception, fist
00:59:00
pump. Hey, James, great to see you.
00:59:02
Like, nice to meet you. What's your
00:59:03
name? Like, they knew who I was. going
00:59:05
uh through the gym. I'm like, "God, I
00:59:07
wouldn't know what a a weight was if it
00:59:08
hit me in the face and they're all the
00:59:09
boys are pumping the iron and they come
00:59:11
over. Hey James, lovely to meet you.
00:59:12
I've heard lots of great things and all
00:59:13
fist pumping." So I'm like, by the time
00:59:15
I get to the room where I do my mental
00:59:17
skills session, I feel like I'm a bit of
00:59:20
part of the family, like I feel welcome.
00:59:22
I feel like I belong. So Canopy Rugby
00:59:24
has this amazing ability to make people
00:59:26
feel like they belong very quickly. Fist
00:59:28
pump, eye contact. James, love it to
00:59:32
meet you. So by the time I got there, I
00:59:33
was much more relaxed. And so my
00:59:35
imposter syndrome went from 100% to like
00:59:38
five.
00:59:39
>> And I think every time I step in there,
00:59:40
there's still that imposter syndrome. I
00:59:42
admire them all so much. Every athlete I
00:59:44
work with, every leader, but so much
00:59:46
admiration. Coming here today, as I said
00:59:47
earlier, of course, like who am I to sit
00:59:50
with Dom Harvey? Like there's always
00:59:52
that. And I think that's healthy.
00:59:54
>> I think when it gets to 100% or 90%, it
00:59:57
stays there. That's where it's
00:59:58
debilitating. That's where we don't take
01:00:01
risks, where we don't get out our
01:00:02
comfort zones. So, I think it's about
01:00:04
just finding techniques to go, I can be
01:00:06
I can have imposter syndrome, but it's
01:00:08
not going to own me.
01:00:09
>> So, certainly I I still have it for
01:00:11
sure. It's never going to disappear.
01:00:13
>> Yeah, it's good to hear. I I think
01:00:14
everyone Yeah. I Everyone has those
01:00:17
moments at some points where you just
01:00:18
feel like you're a little kid again. I
01:00:20
don't know. You feel like you're out of
01:00:21
your depth. I
01:00:22
>> think you've probably had someone on a
01:00:23
show where you're like, "Oh my god,
01:00:24
they're on my show."
01:00:24
>> Often. Yeah. Often. It's like, "What the
01:00:27
[ __ ] is going on?" I even have a moment
01:00:28
during the conversation where I sort of
01:00:31
like, you know, it's almost like an
01:00:33
out-of- body experience where it's like,
01:00:34
"What the [ __ ] I can't believe I'm
01:00:36
sitting here with this person." Please
01:00:37
capture those. I talk to my clients
01:00:38
about having a PVJ, your personal
01:00:40
victory journal. Have somewhere where
01:00:42
you capture those moments how you felt
01:00:45
because you'll have a dark day, you'll
01:00:46
have a tough day. Go back to your
01:00:48
personal victory journal and go, I
01:00:50
remember that. I can do this. I'm Look,
01:00:51
I can do that. Capture those magic
01:00:53
moments, Dom.
01:00:55
>> Yeah. I I um I am probably guilty of
01:00:57
that like not not being in the moment,
01:00:59
you know, and not enjoying the the
01:01:01
journey and just focusing on the
01:01:02
destination, but um if you have a growth
01:01:04
mindset, the destination is always a
01:01:05
moving target, isn't it?
01:01:06
>> They're never ending.
01:01:07
>> Um and it can be exhausting.
01:01:09
>> Yeah.
01:01:10
>> Are you okay at that? Like um just
01:01:12
smelling the roses I guess along the
01:01:14
way. something I've struggled with to be
01:01:16
totally honest. Yeah.
01:01:17
>> Because
01:01:18
>> you know when you look at people who are
01:01:20
in sport or they've got career goals
01:01:22
like they're always setting goals out
01:01:23
into the future and that means you're
01:01:25
future focused and so sometimes you know
01:01:27
like I'll win the world championship and
01:01:30
the next day like cool who cares move
01:01:33
on.
01:01:33
>> Well you mentioned um the golfer before
01:01:35
Scotty Schaefer he said the same sort of
01:01:37
thing like about the uh the amount of
01:01:39
>> the amount of time satisfaction he gets
01:01:41
after winning a trophy. minimal
01:01:43
>> very minimal what I realized I get the
01:01:46
satisfaction from is the pursuit
01:01:48
>> it's like the building towards that that
01:01:49
Arthur Cbrook stuff we talked about
01:01:51
earlier pursuing something really
01:01:52
satisfying so now I force myself to
01:01:56
smell the roses and I do that through
01:01:58
journaling like journaling sounds like
01:02:00
this real kind of you know boring thing
01:02:01
I love journaling it goes everywhere
01:02:03
with me planes trains automobiles sits
01:02:05
beside my bed when I'm with clients it's
01:02:07
there it's in the little bag sitting
01:02:08
over there right now journaling for me
01:02:10
is my way of getting present what
01:02:12
happened today? What didn't go so well?
01:02:13
What did I learn? That's the only way I
01:02:16
kind of force myself to do it because
01:02:17
Dom, it's not natural for me. I'm
01:02:18
constantly in the future.
01:02:20
>> So, this journaling, what does it look
01:02:21
like? Is it like bullet points or is it
01:02:23
like a full um written out diary entry
01:02:26
or what is it?
01:02:27
>> So, I always when I look at journaling,
01:02:29
struggle to get the the rhythm going.
01:02:32
I'd do it for a week and then give up.
01:02:33
And so, I thought I need to get an
01:02:35
actual rhythm going. So, I'd answer
01:02:37
three questions at the end of each day.
01:02:39
What went well today? what didn't go so
01:02:41
well and what did I learn? So I did that
01:02:43
for six months and then I went back and
01:02:45
started to see patterns. I'm like oh I'm
01:02:48
not learning from that lesson. I'm
01:02:49
paying dumb tax there. So like what's
01:02:51
going on? And after about six months I'm
01:02:53
like okay I'm sick of answering these
01:02:54
bloody questions. How about a free flow?
01:02:57
So I'll start with gratitude because the
01:02:58
neuroscience behind practicing gratitude
01:03:00
is phenomenal. So started practicing
01:03:02
gratitude. Four to six things each day
01:03:04
I'm grateful for.
01:03:05
>> Then I start writing about the things
01:03:06
I'm worried about for the day. What am I
01:03:08
worried about? What might go wrong? And
01:03:10
then I challenge myself. But have you
01:03:12
done that before? Will it really go
01:03:13
wrong? What might go right? What look
01:03:16
through the possibilities? So my
01:03:17
journaling is a lot of that. I do a lot
01:03:18
of uh had an experience. I'll not tell
01:03:21
you the airline. I was traveling uh
01:03:22
earlier this year and uh it wasn't a a
01:03:25
New Zealand airline and I had a terrible
01:03:27
experience on four separate flights. I
01:03:31
thought something's wrong here. And it's
01:03:33
culture. So I got my journal out and I
01:03:35
went, okay, what does great culture look
01:03:37
like? And like you, I look back at all
01:03:38
the great people I've worked with or
01:03:40
interviewed and go I know exactly what
01:03:42
separates great from greatness like
01:03:44
greater
01:03:45
>> and that is these these key things that
01:03:47
the journal is a place for me to think
01:03:49
to strategize to I wrote most of my book
01:03:52
>> by journaling and putting all the models
01:03:54
that are in my book calibrating them.
01:03:56
The journal is kind of like a coach.
01:03:58
It's a it's a free coach.
01:04:00
>> So I would urge everyone to consider it.
01:04:02
It cost you nothing. Mhm.
01:04:03
>> I mean, you could even, if you really
01:04:05
want, just do it in the notes section of
01:04:06
your phone.
01:04:07
>> Yeah.
01:04:07
>> Um, but yeah, gratitude has been a huge
01:04:10
thing for me. It's massive.
01:04:11
>> Tell me about it.
01:04:12
>> Uh, well, I was reluctant to start doing
01:04:15
it cuz I thought it was a I don't know,
01:04:16
it was a little bit woo woo or
01:04:17
something. But, um, it's been the most
01:04:19
fantastic thing. You You can start like
01:04:21
really base level like um I I wake up
01:04:24
every morning and I'll lie in bed for a
01:04:25
couple of minutes and think about um
01:04:27
three free things that I'm grateful for.
01:04:30
So, it might be like having my dog next
01:04:32
to me. It might be having fresh water to
01:04:34
drink behind me, knowing I'm about to
01:04:35
have a hot shower. Um, so the base level
01:04:39
is is really really low. And then but
01:04:41
when then when you start thinking about
01:04:42
things you're grateful for, you just
01:04:44
become more I'm just grateful for
01:04:45
everything. Eh,
01:04:46
>> I'm grateful for every opportunity I get
01:04:48
every [ __ ] day.
01:04:49
>> But look at what it's doing like you've
01:04:50
got amazing energy. You look physically
01:04:53
really healthy. You attract amazing
01:04:55
people into your life.
01:04:56
>> Gratitude is the most powerful thing.
01:04:58
And again, the neuroscience and quantum
01:05:00
physics that's behind it
01:05:02
>> just proves that it works.
01:05:04
>> So, keep doing it.
01:05:05
>> But we we all I mean, most of us have
01:05:07
have so much to be grateful for that we
01:05:08
just let slip us by. Like after this um
01:05:10
I'm doing a double podcast day today.
01:05:12
We're doing this one very early.
01:05:13
>> 7:30 a.m. Let's go.
01:05:16
>> I've got another one after this with um
01:05:18
a guy called Mitch Wilson who's a
01:05:19
parasyclist. When he was 17, he had a
01:05:21
brain tumor. He had had crippling um
01:05:24
yeah headaches um and was vomiting and
01:05:27
it was sort of misdiagnosed. So he he he
01:05:29
could have a lot to be bitter about. By
01:05:31
the time it was discovered it was a
01:05:32
brain tumor. Um he got told he was going
01:05:34
to lose his eyesight. So at the age of
01:05:35
17 he lost 95% of his eyesight. Um,
01:05:40
from what I know about him, uh, had he'd
01:05:43
go to bed in his go to bed in hospital
01:05:44
at night,
01:05:46
look at the photo of his family and his
01:05:48
friends and think,
01:05:51
is this going to be the last time I see
01:05:52
them?
01:05:54
>> At seven, [ __ ] teen.
01:05:55
>> That's heartbreaking.
01:05:56
>> It's terrible.
01:05:57
>> Yeah. Nobody should have experienced
01:05:59
that.
01:05:59
>> Yeah.
01:06:00
>> What age is he now?
01:06:02
>> He's um like 30 now. So, he's rebuilt
01:06:04
his life and he's become a parasyclist.
01:06:06
So he sits on the the back of a bike and
01:06:08
there's um what's called a pilot at the
01:06:09
front that steers it cuz
01:06:12
>> Can you imagine that? How cruel is that?
01:06:15
Your eyesight at 17.
01:06:16
>> Yeah, that's horrific.
01:06:17
>> So we all we all have these um back to
01:06:19
the gratitude thing, we all have these
01:06:20
gifts like even our eyesight that can be
01:06:22
taken away. Um and these conversations
01:06:25
that I've had have sort of crystallized
01:06:26
that for me a little bit and I'm just so
01:06:28
thankful for so much.
01:06:29
>> The small things
01:06:31
>> are the big things is what I'm hearing
01:06:32
you say. like the tiny things, the water
01:06:34
that you drink, the people that you get
01:06:36
to connect with, the clothes that you
01:06:37
get to wear. It's the simple things that
01:06:39
are actually the most important things.
01:06:40
>> Yeah. 100%.
01:06:41
>> Yeah.
01:06:42
>> So, um yeah, you've worked with all
01:06:45
sorts of people like you you mentioned
01:06:46
um the Canterbury Rugby team before that
01:06:48
you're the mental schools coach for, but
01:06:50
there's like your billion-dollar CEOs,
01:06:52
global leaders, all sorts of people like
01:06:53
that. What's um if anything, like what's
01:06:56
the most surprising insecurity they all
01:06:58
share? H well look when I look back at
01:07:01
the people I've worked with that fear is
01:07:04
a big common trait amongst them all and
01:07:07
it's generally the the fear of what
01:07:10
other people think or the fear of
01:07:13
failure and so most of these these when
01:07:17
you look at them from the outside highly
01:07:19
successful people are often operating
01:07:21
from a place of fear and they're
01:07:22
miserable inside and that's why I end up
01:07:24
working with them h so
01:07:27
so it's like it And what you see on the
01:07:29
outside is kind of like the swan on the
01:07:31
lake. Like the swan looks like it's just
01:07:33
gliding. It's pedaling like crap
01:07:35
underneath. Right?
01:07:36
>> So this fear of what other people think
01:07:39
drives many of us. And you look at
01:07:42
Bronny Wear's great book. So she wrote
01:07:44
the top regrets of the dying. So I read
01:07:46
this four or five years ago and she's a
01:07:47
pallet of care nurse. She nursed people
01:07:49
in their last few weeks of life. But she
01:07:51
always asked them one question. What do
01:07:54
you regret in your life? And she wrote
01:07:55
it down in a journal. So she come up
01:07:58
with thousands of entries. The number
01:08:00
one regret of the dying dumb. I regret
01:08:03
living my life making decisions based
01:08:06
upon what I thought other people thought
01:08:08
of me.
01:08:10
>> I'm so regretful of that. I thought
01:08:12
Christ that pretty much sums it up for
01:08:14
most of us. So these people that I'm
01:08:16
working with that you would look at and
01:08:17
go like I want to be like that performer
01:08:19
or whatever. Most of them don't have the
01:08:21
joy or fulfillment you might think
01:08:23
because they're so worried about what
01:08:25
other people think. I had an athlete who
01:08:28
would be a household name in New Zealand
01:08:30
come to me Tuesday morning in tears.
01:08:34
Said, "What's up, dude?" He, "Did you
01:08:36
did you read the comment?" Like, "What
01:08:39
comment?" He says, "Did you not read the
01:08:41
comment on the Instagram post?" I like,
01:08:43
"What comment? What Instagram post?" He
01:08:46
went, "It was about the game on the
01:08:47
weekend. Did you not?" I was like, "No,
01:08:49
I don't read those things." He says,
01:08:51
"Did you not see what they wrote about
01:08:52
me?" I was like, "How many comments were
01:08:53
there?" Oh, there's about 1,50.
01:08:56
I said, I didn't see that comment. He
01:08:58
went, well, I'm I'm gutted and and I
01:09:01
can't sleep. And so, what did he say? He
01:09:02
says, I'm crap and I'm a husband. Oh,
01:09:06
and why do you why do you have any
01:09:07
feeling about that comment?
01:09:10
Well, it's like it's really upset me. I
01:09:12
was like, is it because you are a
01:09:13
husband?
01:09:14
You know, are you crap? He went, well, I
01:09:16
don't think so. Did you get selected to
01:09:19
play? Yeah. Okay. So, you're pretty damn
01:09:22
good then, aren't you? Yeah. Why do you
01:09:24
read that damn crap? I don't know. I
01:09:26
just end up there and I look at it and
01:09:28
because we all fear what people think,
01:09:30
>> you know,
01:09:31
>> do you know the person? Is it is it your
01:09:33
mom or dad? Is it someone that's got
01:09:34
your best interest at heart or is it
01:09:36
just some random?
01:09:37
>> But most of us are doing that. We buy
01:09:39
cars. So I say to people in an audience
01:09:41
I'm talking
01:09:42
>> for those that drive the Range Rover,
01:09:43
the Ferrari, the Porsche. I dearly hope
01:09:46
>> that you're driving it because you love
01:09:48
it.
01:09:49
>> You love the feel of it, how it moves.
01:09:52
if you've bought that car because you
01:09:54
want to fit in with your mates, fit in
01:09:56
in your neighborhood, you want to prove
01:09:58
someone wrong, sell the car today. And
01:10:01
one guy come up a week later who's at an
01:10:02
event in Christ Church says, "James, I
01:10:04
sold my uh Range Rover and uh I bought a
01:10:07
Volkswagen Golf, which I think are great
01:10:08
little cars." Um I says, "Why?" He was
01:10:11
literally trying to fit in with everyone
01:10:13
at work.
01:10:14
>> That's really sad. People buy clothes,
01:10:15
go to university, make decisions on
01:10:17
work, make decisions on relationships
01:10:19
based on what will they think about
01:10:21
this. Cut that crap out. It's taken me
01:10:23
years to figure that out. Only in the
01:10:25
last half a decade
01:10:26
>> have I started really not caring what
01:10:28
people's judgments are. I care what
01:10:30
people think to a certain degree. You
01:10:31
know, I care about people,
01:10:32
>> but I couldn't give a damn what people
01:10:34
are judging you. The t-shirt I'm
01:10:35
wearing, the shoes I'm wearing, the car
01:10:37
I drive. I don't care. There's more to
01:10:39
life.
01:10:40
>> Yeah. And also another thing you realize
01:10:42
um everyone human humans are um by
01:10:45
nature quite self-conscious. So people
01:10:46
aren't thinking about you as much as
01:10:48
what you would like to think they are.
01:10:49
They're they're thinking about
01:10:50
themselves 100% Ram syndrome, right? You
01:10:53
and I have got it. World revolves around
01:10:56
me every day. Ram syndrome. We've all
01:10:58
got it. What am I doing? What's in it
01:11:00
for me today? We've all got that. They
01:11:02
don't care about you and me.
01:11:04
>> Not really. No. No.
01:11:06
>> Um yeah. There was a quote I I really
01:11:08
liked that stuck with me. It's like
01:11:09
other people's opinion is none of my
01:11:11
business.
01:11:11
>> That's brilliant.
01:11:12
>> Um I really I really like that. Um yeah,
01:11:15
I'm I'm finally at a point now. I'm a
01:11:16
very slow learner, even slower than you,
01:11:17
where I I can avoid reading the
01:11:19
comments.
01:11:20
>> If if there's a post and I think there's
01:11:21
going to be comments that are going to
01:11:22
like upset me or ruin my day, like why
01:11:24
would I expose myself to that?
01:11:25
>> That's a choice.
01:11:27
>> When you choose to engage in those
01:11:28
comments and read them, that's a choice.
01:11:30
>> Yeah.
01:11:30
>> And that's I always say the thing you're
01:11:32
about to do, is it going to be useful or
01:11:35
unuseful? Will it be useful for how you
01:11:37
feel emotionally? Great. Do it. If it's
01:11:39
going to be unusful, why do it? Don't
01:11:41
engage in it and then self-pity,
01:11:42
self-loathe, and want attention. Just
01:11:45
make the decisions that are useful.
01:11:48
>> Yeah. It's troubling for kids though.
01:11:50
How old it's how it's Finn now?
01:11:51
>> Nine.
01:11:51
>> Nine. Yeah. So, he's he's getting into
01:11:53
that um you know, a few years away from
01:11:56
that sort of like puberty, teenage
01:11:58
years. I can't imagine how difficult it
01:12:00
is at that age.
01:12:01
>> Yeah. I think you're constantly
01:12:03
comparing that comparison with others.
01:12:05
the one thing that I can control.
01:12:08
>> And his mom and his bonus mom agree,
01:12:10
we're going to keep a phone and social
01:12:12
media out of his hands for as long as
01:12:16
possible. Whether people love or loathe
01:12:18
Christopher Luxon and his government,
01:12:20
banning phones in schools, high five.
01:12:23
Let's get the social media and ban it up
01:12:25
until the age of 16. Our kids don't need
01:12:27
to be exposed to that crap.
01:12:29
>> The technology rewires their brains. The
01:12:32
statistics on suicide, teen suicide
01:12:36
particular, is going through the roof.
01:12:38
>> Social media does not help. So, that's
01:12:40
the one thing with Finn where I'm going
01:12:41
to support him by not giving him access.
01:12:44
And he's already asking. He's nine. Some
01:12:46
of his mates have phones. Like, what the
01:12:48
hell does a 9-year-old need a phone for,
01:12:49
you know? And the iPad, he gets it when
01:12:51
we travel. That's it. He doesn't need an
01:12:52
iPad at home. There's books. Read a
01:12:55
book, mate. So, I like to keep it
01:12:57
simple. He's going to have challenges as
01:12:59
it is. We all do.
01:13:01
>> Yeah. Yeah, it's hard though, especially
01:13:02
when he starts pulling out lines like,
01:13:03
"Oh, Dad, I'm the only one."
01:13:05
>> Totally. You're a crap dad. Sort it out,
01:13:08
Dad. Get me a phone. I'll get him a
01:13:10
brick. Don't I'll say you've got a
01:13:11
phone, but there's no internet.
01:13:12
>> Yeah. Well, well, that's the thing. It
01:13:14
started out with kids having them for
01:13:15
emergency situations. How many emergency
01:13:17
situations are there? Come on.
01:13:18
>> Once in a blue moon, maybe.
01:13:20
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, in your in your opinion
01:13:23
or experience, what's the difference
01:13:24
between being a boss and being a leader?
01:13:27
>> Oh, good. So,
01:13:30
a boss, it's it's uh us and them. Bosses
01:13:35
would talk about their workers.
01:13:39
And I chat with people and they go, "Oh,
01:13:40
the workers." I hold up who? The
01:13:43
workers.
01:13:45
Is that what they are? They're your
01:13:46
workers. And sometimes they'll point
01:13:48
down when they say, you know, the
01:13:49
workers. They don't even know they're
01:13:51
doing it. A boss will always be looking
01:13:53
at what's best for the boss. The boss
01:13:55
will always want to be seen a certain
01:13:56
way. I don't think it's a healthy trait
01:14:00
to want to be a boss.
01:14:01
>> I think a leader and a good leader,
01:14:04
there's all different types of leaders,
01:14:05
but a high performance leader is one who
01:14:07
serves. He talks about their people.
01:14:10
They say us a lot. And they say when
01:14:13
there's mistakes, they say I or me.
01:14:16
>> You know that when things are going
01:14:17
well, it's us. We did this and the team
01:14:19
did that. When the proverbial hits the
01:14:22
fan, they go, I take responsibility for
01:14:25
that. I did that. I will sort that out.
01:14:28
I don't push it on.
01:14:29
>> Leadership is a choice. Everyone can
01:14:31
lead. But Dom, it starts with you. Like
01:14:34
you can't lead others unless you lead
01:14:36
yourself. And so telling others to do
01:14:38
something that you're not doing, well,
01:14:39
God, you're not walking the walk. Uh
01:14:42
again, whether people love them or
01:14:43
loathe them, uh Greg Forin, New Zealand
01:14:46
CEO, Saturday morning, loading the
01:14:49
luggage.
01:14:50
That's leadership, right? If he's doing
01:14:52
that because it's like I want to be with
01:14:54
my team, great. If he's doing it to take
01:14:56
them the media box, maybe not so good.
01:14:58
But if he's doing that right from here,
01:15:00
that is leadership. Nothing is is
01:15:02
beneath a leader. They'll scrub the
01:15:04
floors.
01:15:04
>> Well, he he's um he's indicated he's
01:15:07
going to resign, Greg Forum, but um you
01:15:09
still see him on domestic flights like
01:15:11
handing out the boiled sweets at the end
01:15:12
of the flights or pouring the coffees.
01:15:14
And it's not um it's not I don't think
01:15:17
it's tokenism because he's he's done it
01:15:19
a lot and it doesn't always get you
01:15:21
people don't always film it or put it on
01:15:23
social media. Yeah, he served me a cup
01:15:24
of tea and I wasn't going to ask for a
01:15:25
selfie. You know, it's like it's pretty
01:15:26
cool.
01:15:27
>> And I think that's what leadership is.
01:15:28
It's doing the things that
01:15:30
>> bosses think that they're above, you
01:15:33
know, the new person rather than them go
01:15:35
and get the coffees, why don't you go
01:15:37
get the coffees and take them for a walk
01:15:38
and talk about what's interesting to
01:15:40
them, what they see.
01:15:41
>> You know, leadership's a choice.
01:15:43
>> Everything rises and falls in
01:15:44
leadership. We can see that with
01:15:46
countries. You know, certain countries
01:15:48
are rising or falling based on
01:15:49
leadership.
01:15:50
>> It's the same as your podcast. It's the
01:15:52
same as a family, the community, our
01:15:55
country.
01:15:56
>> If things aren't going well, just look
01:15:58
to the top. It all rises and falls on
01:16:00
leadership.
01:16:00
>> Yeah.
01:16:02
Yeah. Um, one thing you do with your
01:16:03
clients is you help them um get crystal
01:16:05
clear on what their why is. For anyone
01:16:07
that's um listening to this or watching
01:16:09
this who feels stuck or lost, what's the
01:16:11
where should they start? What's the
01:16:12
first question?
01:16:13
>> Yeah, great. So, if people going, I
01:16:15
don't know what my why is. Uh you could
01:16:16
read Simon Synynic's great book, Start
01:16:18
with Why. Uh but that doesn't tell you
01:16:20
what your why is. just explains really
01:16:22
his thinking around purpose. Easy
01:16:25
questions.
01:16:27
What makes me cry? If you're like, I
01:16:29
don't cry. What gets under my skin? Not
01:16:33
much. What makes me angry? What keeps me
01:16:36
up at night? What do I hate being seen
01:16:39
being done to others? Uh what irks me?
01:16:43
Uh who do I deeply care about? Those are
01:16:46
questions I would challenge everyone to
01:16:48
get clear on because that will help them
01:16:50
make decisions based on why rather than
01:16:53
how much am I going to earn, where am I
01:16:54
headed? You're doing more purpose-
01:16:56
driven work. Do work that matters,
01:16:58
right? High performers always look at
01:16:59
their work and go this matters.
01:17:02
>> And it's just a core human need. Dom, we
01:17:03
we need to feel like we have a sense of
01:17:05
significance, not ego, but does the work
01:17:08
I do actually matter? M
01:17:11
>> you know I was chatting at a a large
01:17:14
Australasian bank CEO COO bunch of
01:17:16
leaders in the room and I say what's the
01:17:18
vision for this company where you guys
01:17:19
headed nobody could answer the question
01:17:22
so I asked it again in case by Irish
01:17:23
accent they didn't understand what I
01:17:24
said where is this country this company
01:17:26
headed nobody could answer so I go over
01:17:30
at lunch hang out with a bunch of the
01:17:31
senior leaders 20 plus year tenure three
01:17:34
of them quietly looking for jobs in
01:17:37
other companies I said why
01:17:40
James, I don't know why we do what we do
01:17:42
here. We have no vision and there's no
01:17:44
no reason, no purpose with what we do. 6
01:17:47
months later, they're all gone. So, but
01:17:48
people look at retention, culture,
01:17:50
happiness.
01:17:51
>> Doing what matters is most important.
01:17:54
>> Don't do what's exciting or easy. Do
01:17:56
what matters most
01:17:57
>> and ask those questions. What keeps me
01:17:58
up at night? What makes me cry? What
01:18:00
makes me angry? You know, for a lot of
01:18:02
people, there's a lot of anger in the
01:18:03
world right now. You and I are very
01:18:05
positive and we choose optimism. But you
01:18:08
look out into the world, there's a ton
01:18:09
of anger.
01:18:10
>> And we've got to find ways to help
01:18:13
people find and tap in to purpose.
01:18:15
Because when people are purpose driven,
01:18:17
>> they don't have time for anger.
01:18:18
>> Yeah.
01:18:20
>> Yeah. I found Yeah. From a a personal
01:18:22
perspective, I I find the the better my
01:18:25
mental headsp space is, the the less
01:18:27
angry I am about things as well.
01:18:29
>> I get frustrated and annoyed by even
01:18:30
like little things happening around me
01:18:32
if my mental health isn't where it
01:18:34
should be. There's plenty to be angry
01:18:35
about if you want to be. Okay. Yeah.
01:18:37
Just go on social media, you'll find
01:18:38
things within a couple of minutes that
01:18:39
you can be outraged by
01:18:41
>> 100%. Where your focus goes, your energy
01:18:44
flows.
01:18:45
>> So if your focus goes to negative stuff,
01:18:48
all of your energy goes there.
01:18:49
>> You know, it's it's the same in any
01:18:51
field. If your focus goes to the
01:18:53
opposition, it goes to the TMO,
01:18:55
all your energy goes there. You can't
01:18:56
control anything. Is that useful or
01:18:59
unusful?
01:19:00
Always a question to ask. Where are my
01:19:02
focuses going? Is that useful focus? you
01:19:04
know, focusing on social media, focusing
01:19:05
on what you don't have. I don't think
01:19:07
it's very useful. Focus on what you do
01:19:09
want, focus on where you are headed.
01:19:10
>> Yeah.
01:19:11
>> You you've mentioned a couple of books
01:19:13
um in this podcast. Um yeah, besides
01:19:16
your own, what are what are like a bunch
01:19:18
of books that you absolutely swear by?
01:19:20
>> Yeah. Great. So, the wealth money can't
01:19:24
buy by Robin Chararma. Phenomenal book.
01:19:27
It's his most recent book. You know,
01:19:28
Robin sold 20, 30 million copies of his
01:19:31
books over his lifetime. deep thinker,
01:19:33
wealth, money can't buy. H if you're
01:19:35
chasing the big goals, I love you, but
01:19:38
don't chase them just for the success.
01:19:40
Buy that book, The Wealth, Money Can't
01:19:41
Buy. Secondly, The Alchemist. I always
01:19:43
have copies of Po Qualo's The Alchemist.
01:19:45
It's a great fable about purpose. I gift
01:19:48
it to so many people. I just think it's
01:19:50
one of the books we all got to have. Uh
01:19:52
Man's Search for Meaning by Victor
01:19:54
Frankle.
01:19:54
>> Yeah, incredible book.
01:19:55
>> Incredible. I had never never heard of
01:19:57
it until the Christ Church earthquakes
01:19:59
and I thought I'm self-pity,
01:20:00
self-loathing, drinking way too much
01:20:02
alcohol.
01:20:02
>> What can I do? Read Victor Frankle's
01:20:04
book. Wow, what a book.
01:20:06
>> Anything else come to mind?
01:20:09
Joo Willink, as you mentioned, Extreme
01:20:11
Ownership is a great book.
01:20:12
>> At one point, I loved David Gogggins uh
01:20:15
Can't Hurt Me.
01:20:16
>> Yeah.
01:20:16
>> And then uh yeah, just I look at it
01:20:18
differently now. I think there's another
01:20:19
way to to achieve your your goals
01:20:21
without being a massochist.
01:20:22
>> Yeah. He's just obsessed with misery.
01:20:24
>> Yes. and he uses the MF word way too
01:20:26
much for my liking.
01:20:28
>> I like I like I
01:20:30
>> do too.
01:20:31
>> It doesn't seem like a like like an
01:20:33
existence that has any joy in it. Do
01:20:36
>> you know it's a great book and Kiwi
01:20:38
audience some of them will go I'm not
01:20:39
going to get that but others will go yes
01:20:41
I'll get it is a John Keys book and it
01:20:42
was uh written by John Rowan. Bloody
01:20:45
brilliant book really you know really
01:20:47
good. Yeah because I don't think
01:20:48
everyone knows John's story. They all
01:20:50
know his position. They all know some of
01:20:51
the funny things he did some of the
01:20:53
serious things he did. but they don't
01:20:55
know John. And you've had John on the
01:20:56
show. I've had a John on the show. He's
01:20:57
a good man and he's got a great story.
01:20:59
>> And I think that book taught me a lot
01:21:02
about the human behind the persona
01:21:06
>> and about goal setting, about
01:21:08
self-belief, about uh determination, all
01:21:10
the things you see in my book. Like I
01:21:12
look at what John has done and again
01:21:14
love him or loathe him.
01:21:16
>> He does all those things radically clear
01:21:17
in what he want supercharged his BS
01:21:20
>> led with purpose his version of what
01:21:22
purpose looked like. So, that's another
01:21:23
one I would suggest all Kiwis get.
01:21:28
>> Yeah. What do you What do you know about
01:21:30
tall puppy syndrome? Is it a thing in
01:21:32
Ireland or is it something that you It
01:21:33
is. Oh,
01:21:34
>> 100%.
01:21:35
>> Yeah. I That just comes to mind because
01:21:36
you mentioned you mentioned John Key. Um
01:21:39
and we did touch upon before the
01:21:40
relationship that some people have with
01:21:42
wealth. I feel like in New Zealand
01:21:43
there's a there's almost a negative
01:21:45
stigma um in some circles about, you
01:21:48
know, being rich.
01:21:49
>> Northern Ireland's the same.
01:21:50
>> Really?
01:21:51
>> Yeah. I had a family member who uh was
01:21:54
driving and they seen a person I think
01:21:56
it was a Porsche Ferrari I can't
01:21:58
remember I was only seven eight at the
01:21:59
time and they took took over or cut them
01:22:02
off or something and family member kind
01:22:04
of flipped him the finger and said uh
01:22:06
they're making up for something with
01:22:07
that car and uh kind of alluding to
01:22:10
something and
01:22:12
>> yeah thanks Dom thanks for making it
01:22:14
obvious. There we go.
01:22:16
>> Trust to call out. I love that. and um
01:22:20
never trust a person who drives a car
01:22:22
like that. They've done something to get
01:22:24
that money. And so I definitely think
01:22:26
Northern Ireland and New Zealand have a
01:22:28
lot in common around people who are
01:22:30
highly successful. And that comes down
01:22:33
to kind of let them think what they
01:22:35
want. You know,
01:22:36
>> you've got to poppy syndrome is always
01:22:37
going to be a thing in this country.
01:22:39
>> Get on with it. You know, don't let it
01:22:41
stop you dreaming and striving and
01:22:43
doing. Do the work and get on with it
01:22:45
anyway.
01:22:47
>> Yeah. You got to live your life for you.
01:22:49
A 100 years from now, none of this is
01:22:51
going to matter. No one's going to
01:22:52
remember me. No one's going to remember
01:22:53
you.
01:22:54
>> If if you're lucky, yeah, 100 years from
01:22:56
now, maybe there'll be some great
01:22:57
grandchildren that have a a vague memory
01:22:59
of you, but that's going to be it.
01:23:01
That's none of that's going to matter.
01:23:02
>> You could take such bigger risks and
01:23:04
bigger swings in life thinking like
01:23:05
that.
01:23:06
>> It doesn't actually matter.
01:23:07
>> Yeah.
01:23:08
>> You could fail everything, put
01:23:09
everything on the line today
01:23:11
>> and rebuild the whole thing.
01:23:12
>> You've got the skills to do it. You
01:23:14
didn't win the lotto. If you win the
01:23:16
lottery, don't get lose the money. You
01:23:17
don't know how to do that again. You've
01:23:19
built a business, built a brand, you
01:23:21
could lose the Dom Harvey podcast today,
01:23:22
touch when it doesn't happen, and you
01:23:24
could rebuild it in 12 months,
01:23:25
guaranteed.
01:23:26
>> You just know how to do it.
01:23:28
>> So, get on with it. Yeah.
01:23:31
>> Um the people you work with, the high
01:23:33
performers, how how do they b bounce
01:23:35
back from failure or setback?
01:23:36
>> All different.
01:23:37
>> Everyone's different. Uh
01:23:39
>> is there any common sort of mindset or
01:23:41
not really?
01:23:42
>> Yeah. So there's this idea of like
01:23:45
particularly in rugby we talk about uh
01:23:47
dealing in reality like the thing
01:23:50
happened the ref made the call the TMO
01:23:53
did the thing you got the red card
01:23:55
that's the reality get on with it so I
01:23:58
feel like the people who bounce back
01:24:00
quicker control their controllables
01:24:03
>> what can I control you know they get a
01:24:05
circle right in that circle what can I
01:24:08
control and if they're moving on the
01:24:09
field or they're at in their place of
01:24:11
work and they draw a circle ult to do it
01:24:13
in their mind what can I control right
01:24:14
now
01:24:14
>> my breath
01:24:16
>> my mental focus how I respond to this
01:24:19
challenge there's actually a very small
01:24:21
number of things we we need to control
01:24:23
to feel like we have some sense of
01:24:25
certainty so the people who do bounce
01:24:27
back and have resilience they're not
01:24:28
afraid of failing they push themselves
01:24:31
they go and do uncomfortable things and
01:24:33
they just keep going back to what are
01:24:35
the controllables let's control them
01:24:38
>> what about you when you've had what's
01:24:40
been something in the last couple of
01:24:42
years that you have felt was a big
01:24:45
failure or a scary moment and you've
01:24:47
bounced back. What helped you?
01:24:52
>> Probably just knowing that you have to
01:24:53
keep showing up.
01:24:56
>> Like you you um the the guaranteed way
01:24:58
to fail for me is to is to stop.
01:25:01
If you keep going, then there's a chance
01:25:03
that you're going to succeed. And also
01:25:06
just knowing that the the sun's going to
01:25:08
rise every day and you can choose to be
01:25:10
there with it or not. But yeah, you just
01:25:12
have to keep on going, don't you?
01:25:14
>> Yeah. It's beautiful.
01:25:15
>> Yeah. And it [ __ ] sucks. Failure.
01:25:17
Failure [ __ ] sucks. It's not
01:25:18
enjoyable at all. But usually you look
01:25:21
back um with hindsight and sometimes it
01:25:24
takes a long time to get that hindsight,
01:25:25
but you realize um something good came
01:25:27
out of it.
01:25:28
>> 100%. It's interesting when you talk
01:25:30
about that it sucks in the moment. It
01:25:32
does. And I think this toxic positivity
01:25:34
thing, like when something really shitty
01:25:37
happens, it's shitty.
01:25:39
>> It's not nice. It's not, oh, it's fine.
01:25:41
It's [ __ ] Someone dies, that's
01:25:43
terrible. Someone gets dealt a really
01:25:45
bad blow with their health. That's not
01:25:47
There's nothing positive about that,
01:25:48
right? It is. I was chatting with a a
01:25:51
client in Antarctica recently. So,
01:25:53
they're running a the Scott base. And as
01:25:57
you would expect with 12 people living
01:25:58
in a base, they're all going to have a
01:26:00
lot of fun, but there's going to be
01:26:01
friction and challenges with anything.
01:26:03
So, we talked about, you know, with some
01:26:04
of the small things that do crop up when
01:26:06
humans live together. Uh, how do we deal
01:26:08
with things? So, I talk about the 10 10
01:26:11
principle. And so, something happens,
01:26:14
it's pissed you off, you're angry,
01:26:16
you're upset. 10 minutes from now, how
01:26:19
might you feel? Well, you might be still
01:26:21
a bit pissed off, but a lot less. Okay.
01:26:23
10 months from now, looking back on
01:26:26
this, how will you feel? You'll shrug
01:26:28
your shoulders, laugh, it didn't matter.
01:26:29
Okay, bear with me. 10 years from now,
01:26:33
someone putting the spoon in the wrong
01:26:34
drawer, how you going to feel about
01:26:36
that? It's laughable, right? So, I
01:26:39
always try try that with myself. If
01:26:41
someone has really got me going, 10 10
01:26:44
minutes and I'll still be a bit pissed.
01:26:46
10 months, I won't give a damn. 10
01:26:48
years, who cares, right? Me, I'm
01:26:49
carrying on. I don't care what you've
01:26:50
just done. It helps, you know, it
01:26:53
doesn't excuse abuse, but there's no
01:26:55
excuse for that. But it certainly helps
01:26:56
with the small stuff that pisses us off.
01:26:59
>> Yeah. Even even things that that can
01:27:01
seem life-changing that you think you
01:27:03
never bounce back from 10 years from
01:27:04
now, like uh it'll just be like a speed
01:27:06
bump.
01:27:06
>> 100%.
01:27:07
>> That's it.
01:27:08
>> You know, the marriage failure,
01:27:09
>> 10 years on,
01:27:10
>> it's literally a little moment in your
01:27:12
life that you learn hopefully learned a
01:27:14
lot from
01:27:15
>> at the at the time. Jesus, it's
01:27:16
everything. It's all-encompassing. It's
01:27:18
depressing.
01:27:18
>> I get it.
01:27:19
>> Yeah. I've had Mike King on the podcast
01:27:21
very early on and he talked about um a
01:27:24
thing called the inner critic or the
01:27:26
inner voice.
01:27:26
>> What's yours like?
01:27:28
>> I call him Leprechaun Lachlan.
01:27:33
>> He's a little [ __ ] Don,
01:27:34
>> so I look at this. We've all got two
01:27:36
selves. It's actually the first exercise
01:27:38
I do with any client. What's your best
01:27:41
self? What's your worst self? Let's do
01:27:42
it with you, Don, to start with. So,
01:27:44
>> if you think of your best self, when
01:27:46
you're at your best, you're your
01:27:47
happiest. How do you walk? How do you
01:27:50
talk? What are your thoughts like? How
01:27:52
do you treat others? Take me through.
01:27:54
Describe all those things.
01:27:57
>> Um yeah, positive, kind, um not bothered
01:28:02
or phased by anything else.
01:28:04
>> I'm just um yeah, in in my own zone.
01:28:08
>> Beautiful.
01:28:08
>> Yeah. I'm the best version of myself.
01:28:09
>> And what's your posture like? Would you
01:28:11
be standing upright and broad chest?
01:28:13
>> Yes.
01:28:14
>> And breathing? Would it be shallow or
01:28:16
nice and full?
01:28:17
>> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's good.
01:28:18
>> Good. And I
01:28:19
>> It happens e effortlessly, too.
01:28:21
>> Okay, great. So, you're in flow. It's
01:28:23
effortlessly. Brilliant.
01:28:24
>> Who would you call that version of
01:28:26
yourself? If you had to give them a we
01:28:26
nickname, superhero name or a, you know,
01:28:29
some some kind of name, what would it
01:28:30
be?
01:28:33
>> Dom the bomb.
01:28:34
>> There we go. Dom the bomb.
01:28:38
>> I'm editing this out.
01:28:39
>> Hell no, you're not.
01:28:42
>> I love it. Okay, let's go. The
01:28:44
>> By the way, I don't actually do this.
01:28:45
You asked me to come up with a date.
01:28:47
>> I'd love it. So, worst self. So, when
01:28:51
you're being
01:28:52
>> critical to others, you're not your best
01:28:54
self. You're not thinking in a positive
01:28:56
way. Describe that.
01:28:57
>> Yeah. Um I don't It's just an unhealthy
01:29:01
space to be playing in. You know, you
01:29:03
you fixate on what your competitors,
01:29:06
real or perceived, um are doing. You you
01:29:10
just looking over your shoulder. Um I
01:29:14
don't know.
01:29:15
negative, [ __ ]
01:29:16
>> And if you do that for too long already
01:29:18
your body language, you're leaning over
01:29:20
and you're doing this.
01:29:21
>> So your body language changed from free
01:29:22
and flowing right away. Your physiology,
01:29:25
your hormones have changed like that cuz
01:29:26
you're thinking about that version.
01:29:28
>> That's not helpful, is it?
01:29:29
>> It's not. Who's that? So mine's
01:29:30
leprechaun Lachland. Who's yours?
01:29:33
>> Uh maybe. Oh, dumb the dick.
01:29:37
>> I love it. Dom the bomb and dumb the
01:29:38
dick. Great. Now that exercise seems
01:29:41
silly, right?
01:29:41
>> Yeah. But actually it's really important
01:29:43
because at every moment of every day
01:29:46
those two selves are at play.
01:29:48
>> So internally you've got those two
01:29:50
things happening and it's up to you
01:29:52
which one you decide to feed.
01:29:54
>> You got two wolves in there. You got a
01:29:56
good wolf and a bad wolf.
01:29:57
>> Which one's going to win?
01:29:58
>> The one that you feed.
01:29:59
>> There you go.
01:30:00
>> So it comes down to Dom the bomb. Let's
01:30:02
feed him. Let's react from Dom the bomb.
01:30:04
Dom the dick. He's not going to respond
01:30:06
in a powerful empowering way. So that's
01:30:09
something I think we all need to get
01:30:10
clear on that inner critic, that inner
01:30:12
voice.
01:30:13
>> And you you think sort of about the sort
01:30:15
of people that you want to be around,
01:30:16
the sort of people that energize you and
01:30:18
make you feel good. And is it someone
01:30:21
that's, you know, [ __ ] or being a
01:30:23
dick? Never.
01:30:24
>> Never. You don't want to be around those
01:30:26
people.
01:30:26
>> 100%. And you got to protect your space,
01:30:28
right? You got to protect your energy.
01:30:29
>> Get around good people who have high
01:30:31
energy, positive thoughts, will big up
01:30:34
your ideas, celebrate your successes. M
01:30:36
>> you don't want to be around people who
01:30:37
are being the tall puppy.
01:30:39
>> No, they will drain your battery so
01:30:40
quickly%
01:30:41
>> um how are you with vulnerability? Like
01:30:46
you got you got a good inner circle of
01:30:47
friends that you can talk to about
01:30:48
everything that's going on or do you
01:30:51
sort of process things alone?
01:30:52
>> I do a lot. I I would say solitude is a
01:30:55
big thing in my life. I meditate a lot
01:30:57
and I journal a lot. So I would say I'm
01:30:59
a relatively maybe I don't know if deep
01:31:01
thinker is the right word, but I think a
01:31:02
lot. Mhm.
01:31:03
>> I have I had a massive social circle
01:31:07
through my teens, 20s and interestingly
01:31:12
divorce time.
01:31:14
It's interesting how my circle kind of
01:31:18
maybe cut in half almost maybe one
01:31:20
social circle goes with that partner and
01:31:22
one goes with that partner. I don't
01:31:23
know. But
01:31:24
>> few perceived sides maybe.
01:31:26
>> Yeah, totally maybe.
01:31:27
>> But from that point onwards I started
01:31:28
going who do I want around me? Do I want
01:31:31
100 people at my funeral that I kind of
01:31:35
got on well with or do I want like 15
01:31:38
>> who I loved and they actually knew me.
01:31:41
So I've got on my one hand I could count
01:31:43
my close friends, people who understand
01:31:46
my struggles, my challenges and I like
01:31:48
that. I like a tight circle. I can trust
01:31:51
them
01:31:51
>> and I'm not struggling to keep up with
01:31:53
the social like I can't make it to this
01:31:54
and
01:31:55
>> it it works for me. Some people need and
01:31:58
feed off a lot. The one thing I guess
01:32:00
when people look at you or me, they see
01:32:02
you're on a show or you're on a stage,
01:32:04
you're an extrovert.
01:32:06
>> I'm not.
01:32:07
>> I'm not an extrovert. I'm very much an
01:32:09
introvert. So, I need to recharge. So,
01:32:11
I'll spend time, you know, during the
01:32:12
week with thousands of people. And then
01:32:14
I'll go back to Littleton, go through
01:32:16
the tunnel. There's 3,000 people living
01:32:17
in that little town. I'll go into my
01:32:19
house. I'll sit down. I'll meditate. I
01:32:21
might go down to the market, grab
01:32:22
something on Saturday morning, come back
01:32:24
up. Might go and walk a dogs, come back
01:32:25
up.
01:32:26
>> I'm not very social. That's the opposite
01:32:28
of what it was when I was a kid. So I
01:32:29
think that certainly for me, my
01:32:31
personality has changed through life and
01:32:34
earthquakes and trials and tribulations
01:32:37
and I've just adjusted my lifestyle to
01:32:39
suit that.
01:32:40
>> So I don't have a big massive fan base.
01:32:41
I keep it tight.
01:32:42
>> I think part of that comes with aging as
01:32:44
well. E your circle gets smaller but in
01:32:46
the most beautiful way imaginable.
01:32:48
>> God, in my 20s I had so many friends.
01:32:50
Didn't didn't know many of their last
01:32:51
names.
01:32:52
>> Actually, some of them I didn't even
01:32:53
know their actual names. You know them
01:32:54
by nickname only, but you you'd consider
01:32:56
them really [ __ ] good friends.
01:32:57
>> And you knew their drink order, a
01:32:58
guarantee.
01:32:59
>> Yeah, 100%. But I love that about
01:33:01
getting older, especially high value
01:33:03
friendships.
01:33:03
>> Yeah, I do too.
01:33:05
>> What would you say your um best and
01:33:08
worst habits are? Your best one of your
01:33:10
best must be the discipline aspect,
01:33:12
right?
01:33:12
>> Yeah. So, with that comes like this is
01:33:15
my best and my worst, I think. Um time.
01:33:18
So, to be disciplined, you've got to
01:33:19
respect time and value time. I'm a bit
01:33:21
of a time fanatic. m
01:33:23
>> obsessive with time. Uh there is
01:33:26
absolutely zero missiond dom that I
01:33:27
would have been late today. That would
01:33:29
have sent me into overdrive. I'd have
01:33:32
been freaking out internally.
01:33:33
>> So it's it's a real positive thing
01:33:35
sitting down to write a book. I had to
01:33:37
dedicate two hours a day for a couple of
01:33:38
months every morning going do it. That's
01:33:40
a strength. However,
01:33:43
>> Caroline, Finn, come on. It's 1 minute
01:33:45
to 3. I said wheels rolling at 3. We got
01:33:47
to be there at 3:20. I don't want to be
01:33:48
late. They invited us. And I start to
01:33:51
get all flustered. That's not nice to be
01:33:53
around, Don. That is that that's
01:33:54
leprechaun Lachland. You know what I
01:33:56
mean?
01:33:56
>> Yeah. Is it going to matter in 10
01:33:58
minutes, 10 months, 10 years?
01:34:00
>> Absolutely not. So, that's my best habit
01:34:02
and my worst habit and I'm really aware
01:34:04
of it and I'm trying to work on it. And
01:34:06
Caroline can be the only one, maybe Finn
01:34:08
that can confirm this. I think I'm
01:34:09
getting better. Caroline actually gave
01:34:11
me a little compliment last week. She
01:34:12
says, "James, we're running late and
01:34:13
you're you haven't said anything."
01:34:15
>> Oh, didn't even notice. So, that's
01:34:16
definitely just time awareness.
01:34:18
>> It's funny you should say that. I had I
01:34:20
know you've had him on your podcast as
01:34:21
well and it was a great episode and I've
01:34:22
had um Sir Steve Hansen on my podcast
01:34:25
recently and he said that he said a
01:34:27
person's greatest strength is usually
01:34:28
their greatest weakness.
01:34:30
>> 100%. When you look at it
01:34:31
psychologically so Clifton strengths or
01:34:34
even another one that's free that your
01:34:35
listeners could go to is via a character
01:34:38
strength. They just Google that it's
01:34:39
amazing.
01:34:40
>> Uh my number one I think with Clifton
01:34:42
was harmony and so just you know
01:34:44
creating harmony and getting on with
01:34:46
people and I thought that's awesome. not
01:34:48
a great strength. And then the coach
01:34:50
said, "James, that's also your greatest
01:34:52
weakness." What do you mean?
01:34:54
>> He says, "You won't call people out on
01:34:55
[ __ ] You won't call people out if
01:34:57
they've hurt you. You won't call things
01:34:58
out if it just, oh, it's not quite
01:35:00
right. You'll just Okay, cool. You'll
01:35:01
work around things." He says, "At home,
01:35:03
it'll be a disaster." He says, "You're
01:35:04
divorced, aren't you?" I went, "Yep." He
01:35:06
says, "Case in point." He says, "You
01:35:07
won't call things out as you see them.
01:35:09
You'd rather just everyone be happy."
01:35:10
And so, yeah, your greatest strength is
01:35:13
always your greatest weakness.
01:35:16
>> Actually, that's probably mine. just
01:35:17
being a people pleaser,
01:35:19
>> you know, you want to make people feel
01:35:20
good, but because of the as a result of
01:35:23
that, you often um you prolong or
01:35:25
procrastinate when it comes to difficult
01:35:27
conversations.
01:35:28
>> What are you going to do about that?
01:35:30
>> I just bury my head in the sand.
01:35:33
>> Dom,
01:35:35
it's a it's a work on.
01:35:36
>> No, good man. I think we're all working
01:35:38
on that stuff.
01:35:38
>> Um when was the last time you cried?
01:35:45
Um I I I found personally like since
01:35:48
I've been um into gratitude I'm far more
01:35:51
emotional.
01:35:52
>> I cried the last last time I cried was
01:35:56
uh I was on a plane coming home from Los
01:36:00
Angeles and unfortunately the plane had
01:36:04
Wi-Fi
01:36:06
and I got a text to say Stu has died.
01:36:11
The hell? No way. Stu was a mentor, a
01:36:15
friend, a a genius. Um, and I found out
01:36:19
he'd killed himself.
01:36:21
This just can't be right. Like, this is
01:36:23
not right. Like, he's got kids and he's
01:36:25
got a successful life and he's
01:36:27
worldrenowned at what he does. Like,
01:36:28
this is not right. I don't believe this.
01:36:30
And then it started to be reinforced.
01:36:33
And so, that was the last time.
01:36:36
>> And Dom, 3 days later, I cried again. So
01:36:38
my former wife Lisa, who still works at
01:36:40
the school I worked at, calls me. She
01:36:42
said, "Are you driving?" "Yeah." "Can
01:36:44
you pull over?" "Yeah."
01:36:46
She said, "Um,
01:36:48
do you remember Connor?" I like, "Of
01:36:50
course." I taught him for years. Like
01:36:52
what a great kid. 18. Uh just killed
01:36:55
himself.
01:36:57
Like I'm, you know, goosebumps now just
01:36:59
thinking about it. And um like doesn't
01:37:02
strength is not holding tears in like
01:37:04
not crying. Like
01:37:06
>> I'm getting teeyed just thinking about
01:37:07
that. Those two brilliant men.
01:37:09
>> Yeah. You know, both relatively young
01:37:11
men. One was 18, one was 50.
01:37:14
>> That's just I I can't
01:37:16
>> I can't figure it out, Don. I've tried
01:37:18
to figure it out for a long time. That's
01:37:19
why I first reached out to John Key was
01:37:20
like, "Why are people in our country,
01:37:22
particularly teenagers, killing
01:37:23
themselves? Just doesn't make sense."
01:37:26
>> So, um, yeah, that was the last time I
01:37:28
cried.
01:37:28
>> Yeah.
01:37:31
>> How close are you to being the best
01:37:32
version of yourself?
01:37:33
>> Miles away.
01:37:34
>> Really? Not even close.
01:37:35
>> Just constantly a moving target target.
01:37:37
>> I will never
01:37:40
be satisfied.
01:37:41
>> I would say I'm content
01:37:44
in terms of I like my life. I like
01:37:46
getting up in the morning. I love the
01:37:48
people around me. I love doing what I
01:37:50
do,
01:37:51
>> but I'm never satisfied.
01:37:53
>> Contentment and satisfaction, two
01:37:54
different things. So, I'm not the best
01:37:56
version of myself. I've got lots of
01:37:57
flaws. I've got lots of work to do. I've
01:37:59
got lots of goals I'm pursuing. And I
01:38:02
like that. M
01:38:02
>> it gives me the purpose and the drive.
01:38:05
>> Yeah.
01:38:05
>> I don't think it's Yeah, I don't think
01:38:06
even as a drummer I was always,
01:38:09
>> yeah, I might have won the world
01:38:10
championships yesterday, but that could
01:38:12
have been better. That could have been
01:38:13
better. Just always looking for what we
01:38:15
can improve.
01:38:17
>> With that in mind, are you proud of
01:38:19
yourself?
01:38:22
>> I struggle with that.
01:38:25
>> Caroline's had this chat with me.
01:38:27
I struggle to say I'm proud.
01:38:30
>> Don't know why. Um,
01:38:33
just I don't I don't know why I just
01:38:34
can't connect with that. I I love it
01:38:38
when someone I love says, "I'm proud of
01:38:40
you, James." You know, my mom said it
01:38:42
recently. I was like, "God, that felt so
01:38:44
beautiful."
01:38:45
>> And it wasn't this ego thing. I was
01:38:46
like, "Cool, my mom's proud of me.
01:38:48
That's awesome." Like, really meant a
01:38:50
lot. Um, yeah, I've never got to a point
01:38:53
where I'm like, "I'm so proud." And I've
01:38:55
had magic moments. I've hit goals that
01:38:56
I've wanted to hit and I've been excited
01:38:58
about them, but I've never Yeah, I've
01:39:01
never felt that. I don't know what that
01:39:03
is. Maybe that's a work on for me to
01:39:04
explore.
01:39:05
>> It's funny, hey, it's Yeah, I mean, you
01:39:07
you're you're not um a New Zealand day
01:39:10
like you're you're from Ireland, but
01:39:11
it's um something Kiwis struggle to
01:39:14
answer a lot of the time. In particular,
01:39:15
Kiwi males. Maybe it's an Irish thing as
01:39:17
well.
01:39:17
>> I think Kiwis and Irish people are just
01:39:19
so so similar. Yeah, we talk a bit about
01:39:21
different
01:39:21
>> common a Commonwealth thing.
01:39:22
>> Yeah, could be. Yeah, we were, you know.
01:39:25
Yeah, it could be that. Yeah, I struggle
01:39:27
with that. I'd say many of the men in my
01:39:29
life would struggle to
01:39:31
>> to also say that.
01:39:32
>> Why? Because it seems boastful or
01:39:34
>> maybe it's that.
01:39:36
>> It's either that or I'm just like
01:39:38
constantly moving
01:39:40
>> where I'm not slowing down to smell the
01:39:41
roses as you said earlier.
01:39:42
>> Yeah,
01:39:43
>> maybe it's that. I need to explore that.
01:39:44
That's something in my that will turn up
01:39:46
in my journal tonight at 9:00 p.m. as
01:39:48
I'm about to go to bed.
01:39:50
>> That's um that's a question I've never
01:39:51
been asked.
01:39:52
>> Well, it's something to think about.
01:39:53
like you've done a lot of cool stuff
01:39:54
now. You got this book out. Um you
01:39:56
you've helped um you change a lot of
01:39:58
people's lives for the better. What's
01:40:00
there not to be proud of?
01:40:01
>> Thanks, man. That means a lot. It really
01:40:03
does.
01:40:03
>> Hey, this has been really enjoyable
01:40:05
finally connecting.
01:40:06
>> Thank you. It's been a pleasure from my
01:40:07
end.
01:40:08
>> By the way, um yeah, you said something
01:40:09
before about uh you being late this
01:40:11
morning would have been the worst thing
01:40:12
imaginable. Uh so it's a 7:30 a.m.
01:40:15
podcast. It's worth um highlighting. You
01:40:17
messaged me maybe yesterday or the day
01:40:18
before saying, "So, do you want me there
01:40:20
at 7:30 or should I be there at 7:10,
01:40:22
7:15, 7:20?"
01:40:24
>> Yes, I did. Now you're seeing it all
01:40:26
play out, right?
01:40:27
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:40:28
>> It makes sense.
01:40:28
>> But no, I appreciated that. It was cool.
01:40:30
>> Ah, cool.
01:40:32
>> I've loved this. This is like I've
01:40:34
followed you for years. I've deeply
01:40:35
loved your the way you question, the way
01:40:37
you get curious, your humility. Like
01:40:40
you're the best in the business and
01:40:41
you're deeply humble. and Dom, what
01:40:42
we're excited about as a team, actually,
01:40:44
we're going to have you down to Christ
01:40:45
Church this year to the town hall for
01:40:47
our high performance leadership event.
01:40:49
So, the crowd are going to bloody love
01:40:50
you.
01:40:51
>> Ah, it would be an honor. Well, James
01:40:52
Lachlan um with his new book, Habits of
01:40:55
High Performers, which um I'm going to
01:40:57
love reading.
01:40:58
>> And you off I I as I said at the
01:41:00
beginning, I got sent a PDF copy from
01:41:02
your publishers, but um when this book
01:41:04
comes out, um I I don't want you to send
01:41:07
me a copy. I want to buy a copy.
01:41:09
>> That's beautiful. Thank you for the
01:41:10
support. It means a lot. I've I've
01:41:12
written books before, so I know I know
01:41:13
you only get like 15 free copies.
01:41:16
>> You know how it works.
01:41:17
>> Send them home to Ireland. I'll buy one.
01:41:19
>> Oh, thank you so much, my man.
01:41:20
>> You're a good man. Thank you.
01:41:21
>> Appreciate you.
01:41:22
>> Thanks, James.
01:41:22
>> Thank you.
