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Josh kwford welcome to my podcast thank you D I'm uh don't know what I'm I'm not
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not sure if I'm excited or what what the vibe is with these things but you just
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end up doing them and then they they occur do you um yeah do you en do you enjoy the reminiscing aspect of you know
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the the tapestry of your life I think I do I think I do I mean um and but often I think things have got blurred you know
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like um I've had some recent H knocks more recently and so some of me can't work out what is
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actually truth and and and growing flavor um so when I've got to talk intimately or you know publicly about
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stuff I there's a sort of doubt and a nervousness that sort of cre which is I know it seems really weird
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but um it's just I guess part of dealing with um you know these concussive States
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and uh you know CTE and all these other things that are sort of cropping up in the Rugby World now it's I guess it's
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just part of the management of it and you can't take the old old man's factor
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out of it either so well also also you're um you I mean when was the last time you read your book cuz you put a
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book out at the end of your career well ironically ironically I've just started
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doing speaking saying yes to speak engagements because of the head stuff I thought no you ually a loser and I sat
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down and read my book so I could make sure that I knew what was going on just like a
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refresher cuz well I think um as you get older you know what was your truth say 20 years ago may not be your truth now
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you may look back and things differently and that happens yeah yeah oh look look
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my you know there's some stuff there happened and when I was sort of flicking
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through and reading chapters I was going oh jeez did that happen like that Cy really that's pretty intense I didn't
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realize it was that intense because you've you've washed it you know you've
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dealt with it and it's not it's not poignant or or or or or just like you
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know like that that nagging sort of burning sensation that you've got to you
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know say something about it it's you've I guess you've just left it behind and
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and it's not an issue anymore well it's yeah it's a time thing so at the time
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something which maybe a whole chapter of the Josh corfield story after a decade becomes a paragraph and then eventually
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it's just like a sentence or a footnote yeah exactly yeah but hey there's so
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much to um so much to unpack with you that scary I thought we start with some miscellaneous but some pieces first of
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all um uh you you met ta white Tity yesterday what was um I was really chuff to meet him cuz like you know you see
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him on telly and he's got this certain Charisma and I love the stuff that he
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puts into his movie and the the the you know the story he's telling and the humor and and the way he creates humor
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through not just like verse but you know the expressions and and uh and the color
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and the settings um just love what he does and you know and and I'm I'm not
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a super uh you know got to meet meet you know the man or whatever but it's kind
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of it's kind of cool big deal he's a big deal and uh so yeah I and and like I was
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a bit flustered yesterday um I was at the hucker um thing and record world record
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ATT team and um and and I've just come back from uh Wellies and um you know massive week with uh charity runs and
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the rugby and obviously too much drinking and um and and and I was just like I still hyped on that and I met his
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kids and I thought that's fantastic great you know and I was trying to be funny and Woody and and then Mom and Dad
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walked around the corner and I was shake his hand and introduced them and U when
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I got to the mom I was just about to ask him a question and it came out um when I
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greet his mom I was like hey bro I no just cringing internally and it's just
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like who does this dumb [ __ ] you do man so you said hey bro to ta's Mom yes it's
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not the it's not the worst thing in the world is it oh look mate I I like meeting moms and dads I like to make a
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good impression and I just instantly went Funk and hit the floor and just you know you know when you you trip and you
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run and you shingle your face across the the tarmac that's what it felt like that's great but it's nice to know
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that you get embarrassed about these things it's cool I thought it' be water
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off a duck's back for you you seem like such a chill dude um yeah some things
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are some things I just go over and over and over in my head and and my and again
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this could be part of the hul con cussin thing um you know cuz you do do really random things and um my wife's pretty
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cool she goes you're over going into this cuz on the flip side I'm the first
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person go n doesn't matter I Chu that away or whatever you know but some things just go round round in my head
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and and I think there's probably pretty normally normal of most people but um
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just that overthinking aspect High yeah yeah but I do I have it's it's a new
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Thing I Never Had it when I was younger it was bulletproof you know but um but everything was a lot sharper and crisper
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and you know someone gave gave me a bit of a quip I had a [ __ ] straight away now it's like I know I've got something
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there but just go through the filing yeah but it might take a little while to come out but buffering already missed
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the moment you know yeah yeah yeah oh that's good um oh so this you're a um an
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ambassador for tenner yeah um that's sort of how this chat came about um by the way I'm I'm wearing them right now
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is that right well if they work they work well I've never I've never had to
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wear them before so it's like um like an adult an adult diaper I guess um so
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you're an ambassador for tenner as part of like blue September what's it's
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pretty cool because like you know they're not saying like I got to bang their products out or anything like that
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what they want to say is they want to open up the chat and you know cuz guys are just crap about talking about their
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their health issues and ironically you know like pelvic floor issues um you know getting it up all that sort of
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stuff they're all they're all linked and so when you start getting some of the symptoms and
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you know as things start cropping up it could actually be related to your heart and so by going and have the chat to the
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doctor or within your group or or your wife you might end up getting it checked down and it might turn out to be nothing
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but it also might might be symptomatic for something else and you've you've got
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a head start because what we're finding especially with things like prostate
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cancer is if you do the m and you get in early it's preventable M but problem is in New
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Zealand and and and it's worldwide really but with our kiwi BLS especially we we don't talk about stuff we don't
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communicate we should we right you know hard man all that sort of stuff but if you had just gone in when you first
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noticed some some symptoms and uh you know uh like a slower stream you know um just seems to take forever to get a a PR
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um uh you know or even you know you're getting a bit you should be getting aroused about a such in a certain moment
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it's not quite happening how it should you know like um then you know if you if
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you ask a question you might find out and you go in you get the checks up nothing's there but you go in you get
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the checks up and all of a sudden oh yeah look there's an issue here um and when you when you get fully into it you
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actually might find out that there's some cardiac issues you know so the link is is there um and and
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especially with prostate man come on dudes let's get in get the so so easy so
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easy get done you know and don't get me wrong you know the obviously the digit check is
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one and they say with and and then the blood test for your PSAs you do both those together you're pretty and
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everything comes up clear they can pretty much say you're fine you know and depending on your age group you know you
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got to do your checks pretty regular but it's not really that evasive no no and
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it's you no I mean the doctor doesn't want their finger up your bum as it's
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it's uncomfortable forone involved but they're very professional about it but
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this is the first time I've worn uh like tener liners I just wore them today
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since you're an ambassador though it's it's like a very very um very chunky
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underpant but it's um I mean I'm I'm I'm not mocking them because I'm I'm I'm 51 and
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I'm fortunate that I haven't had any issues yet but um that may very well be
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the future you know but you got to be yeah you can't you can't roll the dice
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with your health can you yeah I mean but even you know like uh you know if you if you go through the stats
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you know there there was some stats that came out about longevity at the moment and what they're saying is there's
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there's a few ramp up periods where things start really ticking and 40 is the first one and 60 is the second one
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and where all your symptomatic stuff that may lead to you know your kicking the bucket all start at those you know
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those brackets and so when you hit 40 he should he should just start doing the tests and then you know they're so easy
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these days I I do get the socioeconomic side of things you know like I I've got
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insurance so when I've had to actually go and do the extra checks on top of the
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doctor um you know I've been able to go and get those straight away and that
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that's nice and it's good piece of mind but for lots of people that that's an
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issue too yeah yeah I've started I'm 51 now it's not a long tradition but
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something I started when I was 50 was um on my birthday or birthday week just going to the doctor for a full medical
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test I've only done it twice but um yeah I can it's like 70 or 80 bucks whatever
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to go to the doctor so I can understand if money's tight and you're feeling
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perfect um a lot of people wouldn't I suppose have the luxury of spending that
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money yeah but yeah that is that is that is one of the safety needs but I guess and again this has been what tenner are
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trying to uh Drive the second safety there is creating these chat groups you know because when you say to one of the
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boys oh I just went on and I had the check ra and they go oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and then one of the other boys say
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yeah I better it done and then one of the other boys hasn't done anything and
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but because you start saying the reason why you've gone in or you know had the
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check they start thinking oh she I've got a bit of that going on and then he'll go home and maybe he speaks to the
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wife or whatever and or family you know Associated family and and then next thing he's in getting the
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J so I think there's there's a certain stigma or the masculine inside of things that
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um they feel you know they feel that pressure but I think if we are open and we have the discussions and you know and
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you can do it kind of funny you know I mean I I was talking about I've been uh
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dealing with some uh you know I had some OB was regular with some of my uh stool
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and stuff like that so I got in and saw the doctor and and um you know and they felt it was part of um hemorrhoids and
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the next a level of the hemorrhoids as the fishes and stuff like that and so I went in to get the check and you know I
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was telling the boys about it and I says I went in there and you know meet the doctor and and he comes out with this
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beautiful voice you know big deep and sexy and I was just going oh this just doesn't seem right and then he you know
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and then he starts telling me what the chers you know he's going through it all
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and he's he gets me comfortable and everything like that and then you know and then he's lubing me up and then in
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goes the and he starts winding it around like it's bloody Butter Churn I'm
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thinking Cy and I'm and I'm like say I'm thinking just relax just relax just
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relax and he um and and he goes oh you've broken a bit of a sweat and I'm
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thinking who doesn't break a sweat you know but once it was done and dusted you know was over it's pretty
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Quirk and um you know and then you're on to a treatment plan and all that sort of
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stuff um and but also you know that while they're there they're doing the
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checks as well you know you they can uh roll out the prostate cuz obviously when
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they're in there they can see if it's enlarged or not well feel if it's
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enlarged and um and you know and and it look I reckon you know half peace of mind and security and not having that
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worry and anxiety CU I mean the word anxiety is the biggest word in in in public you know like everybody talks
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about anxiety you know young people older people and it's a big killer you know it leads to heart issues and stuff
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they say Stress and Anxiety are the key drivers for people you know yeah well thanks for sharing that stuff and
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opening up I I did Dean Barker on the podcast and um he he had Bale cancer and he so
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he had blood inness still for ages didn't even tell his wife Mandy about it and I was like why didn't you even tell
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him and he goes That's it's embarrassing it's not like but it's um we got to
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normalize these conversations a bit more eh and that's that's that's the whole
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premise of you know me doing stuff in September and and again in movember I I really enjoy movember as well you know
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it's a great great period and and obviously the member uh Charities you know cuz it's fun you know like and and
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then you can have the discussions and you know because everybody's wearing a
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mo although some of the mo are aw awful but um you know and my my my wife hates it every year she goes oh you're doing
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that again and I go yeah but um well the thing is I never shave it off straight away that's the thing that annoys her
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the most it usually makes it to Christmas you know handle bars and and whatnot or turns into whatever it turns
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into well if he spent a month cultivating shame to waste it that's the way I feel about it too hey um we've got
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some miscellaneous stuff here so we poke around with some of these little um random bits and Bobs of the Josh
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kronfeld story and then we'll go on some sort of chronological order um first of
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all you were once named the 99th best looking rugby player in the world is that it well not not amongst the boys it was
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like uh when it obviously I can't remember the title but they had the they had everyone rated from best looking uh
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through to um not so best looking how how long was the list it was 100 exactly 100 and uh anyway I was I was 98 988
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yeah and so the boys came in and they and uh you know they were talking about it and we were laughing and they're
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going Crush you you're 98 mate what's going on with that I and then and I says
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oh give us a look and so they had all the pictures right and all the guys that were rating really highly you know like
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um Jeremy gusot which is he is a beautiful looking man there's no doubt about it but he was in he was in a you
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know a black tie sue you know the bow tie looking all Jed up ready to go and then they had um and Jeff was about like
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five or six Jeff Jeff Wilson you know had the long had the long Golden Hair you know the flowing hair at that time
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and um and and of course he was in a suit and no dressed up and then they had me at 98 and so with the head gear you
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you know like and I'm screaming at someone like you know got like you know it's all pushed down and I'm thinking
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not so fair not so fair and then um the funny part of it is um we we're you know
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we're all just sort of finished laughing about it and me you know saying it's not
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right it's not right it's not right and and andon Oliver walks in and goes he
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goes oh what's what's so funny what are you guys laughing at and uh and uh the
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boy said oh Josh is uh as the um as the second ugliest man in world rugby and he goes oh that's funny that's
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funny he goes and he goes oh who's the ugliest everyone just erupts which is uh not which is totally
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unfair to him but um he's a good man say he's 99 no he's 100 who who what publication did this oh
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I think it was one of those U Daily Mail or something you know like the UK um tabloid type things you know was two
00:18:03
page spread like with a little caption under each person and stuff and uh no it was it was gold I mean it you know gave
00:18:13
us great amusement and this is going to age the conversation a lot of people won't even know what I'm talking about
00:18:18
when I say this but you're you're in a a PlayStation game you're in you're in
00:18:22
jonom yeah yeah yeah when when did that come out was that in late '90s was that
00:18:27
a PS2 what was the it would have been PS2 I think from memory yeah but iconic game yeah it was
00:18:34
massive all the boys were playing it um you know Andrew merens was was very good
00:18:39
at it um and yeah I played it a couple of times I could never get the hang of it but yeah and then they'd have uh you
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know they had the commentators you know saying some of their favorite things that they' use you know
00:18:52
like something there's there's Josh Grell buring Like A demented mole or
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like that you know do you still have a copy of it is there any way to play it I never I never had a copy of it yeah um
00:19:07
and and I think uh I think I've thrown the PS2 out oh there might be one there I don't
00:19:13
know no it might have even been PS one to be honest cuz I suppose like when you're in the thick of it and it's your
00:19:18
career and you're just on this game it's like a whatever sort of thing but you
00:19:22
must look back now and go [ __ ] that was cool yeah yeah yeah I I never thought much about it at the time it was it was
00:19:28
kind of you know like in today's games if you if you got it and you it' be
00:19:33
really lifelike version of you you know I was pretty pck lated version with a with a a black thing on my head instead
00:19:40
of hair um and there was a movie made about the uh 1995 World Cup which we'll get
00:19:47
into later but the movie was called invict us yeah who were were you in that who played
00:19:51
you I actually don't know I don't know I I don't think um I don't think you know
00:19:58
like we registered much in it I mean Jonah would have but um you know cuz he was massive so you were just some extra
00:20:06
with head gear on yeah I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure like the this and and I've
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never seen the story line but I've I've flicked through the the the actual book
00:20:15
that it was based on and um you know like that I think discovering just what that meant to
00:20:23
everybody over there it just changed my whole look on it but I I think quietly I always felt like I knew there
00:20:33
was something special going on in South Africa like when we rocked over there and um you know they just returned
00:20:42
from a Hiatus of out in The Ether world of not being involved in any international sport and they dropped a
00:20:49
paride and this was their first showcase moment and they were they were actively
00:20:55
trying to state that we're rainbow people and one people and stuff and while we were
00:21:03
there and walking around with armed security and guards with machine guns and everything like that and training
00:21:08
behind 15t wire fences and um and there was obviously the white areas and there was obviously the black areas
00:21:19
and and there was such a segregation still I you know I mean you can't just you can't just break those boundaries
00:21:27
down but to me it was still pretty obvious M and you'd go to the grounds and you'd see um all the black
00:21:37
community and I mean see I don't even know what how to address that PC wise I'm not sure I'm even doing it properly
00:21:43
you know but the black population would be all there in their homemade all black
00:21:50
jerseys you know with this with everything you know the silver Fern the Stein Luger label all hand sewing
00:21:59
um made from t-shirts and then the collar's all sewed in with a button and just Immaculate and they' be chanting I
00:22:07
can't remember what the the Africans or you know uh but they be chanting basically
00:22:15
go black and there'd be like hundreds of them out out all behind the bar wire
00:22:21
fences we come the me you know come we come out and we take photos you know proper photo old school photos and and
00:22:30
and um and and and sign things and their jerseys and stuff like that and they were
00:22:38
adamantly Pro the All Blacks you know and then you walking off the bus and you'd be having to go through the crowds
00:22:47
to go into Ellis Park and the big white balls would be spitting on you it was such a contra contradiction of energy
00:22:56
you know and um and it was kind of mindblowing and you know like when we got to the World Cup final you know I
00:23:02
was you I still felt part of that you know it was it's I don't think there
00:23:08
ever be a World Cup final like it again well actually no let me take that back I
00:23:12
don't think it'd be a World Cup like it ever again you know just for the sheer
00:23:18
um growth of a country you know when they say not you know when we have events and they say you know they
00:23:25
actually drag the the country into the doldrums you know and break the the countries economically
00:23:31
and stuff for this that World Cup was the rest start of you know what they call the Rainbow Nation you know them
00:23:40
being one people um they've still got their tumors but World Cups have meant a
00:23:46
lot to that country yeah yeah that's um special and we'll get into that in
00:23:51
Greater detail um later on cuz there's so much to talk about there um but just
00:23:55
a couple couple more miscellaneous buts so I'm um I I spent part of my very early life in um Hastings um so I think
00:24:05
our family had like a like a year long past Fantasy Land you worked at Fantasy Land for I worked there um when did you
00:24:10
work there was it just before it switched to Splash Planet or no way before it was fantasy land for a number
00:24:16
of years um so I would have been um so I'd gone to UNI so i' would have been 19
00:24:21
and 189 and so I'd probably work for them when I come back from uni um yeah and my last year probably
00:24:31
was uh 92 93 maybe um I loved Fantasy A lot of people won't even know what we're
00:24:37
talking about but it was like a theme park in h so I just I worked on all the rides and then when um some of the the
00:24:44
big uh bosses were away I sort of took over as supervisor of different things and um I was even Chief mechanic for a
00:24:51
little while a worry um we also uh we built rebuilt one of the um um a really old school ride which was the um bumper
00:25:02
cars you know like um and the cars look like nauy car you know and um with a big
00:25:07
steel things around it had um had a positive and negative track you know and Rose all the way in a circle and you
00:25:16
know cuz the modern ones have the the bar up above them and anyway we uh we reassembled the whole track and you know
00:25:26
with the roof on and everything like that and and then broke down all the cars and uh rebuilt them and of course
00:25:33
that so I and then I was working at the happy tab at the same time and I spent 70 hours of working for that whole
00:25:42
holiday period wow and um and I made um just a little over maybe 10 grand in that period just going for it and um but
00:25:52
I was also training for my sort of first kickoff year with atago and so how we at
00:25:58
the time like 1819 yeah 18 yeah not maybe 1920 maybe cuz 93 so yeah I don't know what the mess is but um I went
00:26:09
home and I'd broken up with my girlfriend and I think I was I think I was a little depressed you know I
00:26:16
wouldn't say it um but the whole thing had just left me feeling really empty
00:26:21
and I came home and so I just went on this training campaign and I was I'd run uh to work which I don't know was
00:26:32
maybe five or sixks from across one side of Hast to the other and um and I do the
00:26:38
work and then I run back to uh the gym and I smash out crazy ass tin and then I run home and Mom would have this massive
00:26:47
feed for me and I just just power it down and then I'd um get in the car and
00:26:54
drive to the Happy Tav and and work as a glassier or a bouncer or or on the on on
00:27:00
the bar I just did whatever they they wanted me to do and then so I did that for like 3
00:27:07
months and then I went back for sevens uh and I was ripped to birs like like but hadn't really put on any weight and
00:27:17
of course when I got to the sevens over sort of a 3- we period of training with the sevens where the the training sort
00:27:24
of changed a little bit got more high intensity you like about speed and stuff like that and I dropped from doing you
00:27:32
know way too many weights during the week to just like couple of sessions a week and I hadn't been drinking and the
00:27:39
boys were saying come on Crush go for a couple of beers and and so we have a couple of bears and so
00:27:48
suddenly um I had my body had a chance to catch up I think I was overtraining and then with the extra carbs from
00:27:56
alcohol I know that sounds really wrong but just a bit of everything I literally
00:28:01
I put on I would say 8 to 10K in the space of about 3 weeks just went and um which was kind of really
00:28:12
weird but I also think maybe time with you know like that age group you sort of thicken out you know was when I when I
00:28:18
went back home before um doing all the training and and I had never been dedicated to training like it was that
00:28:25
particular summer um I was was a Wai it was long long and wary and stuff and then yeah just where did where did that
00:28:34
drive come from at that age like to to work 70 hours a week and train really as well that's that's something special
00:28:41
yeah look I I look I think a little bit of it was I just needed cash I needed to
00:28:46
you know like um obviously um you know University the first year there was a little cost of
00:28:53
University and each year the cost had had ramped up and I could also see the debt that I
00:28:59
was incurring and I didn't like that you know like um I just felt really scary
00:29:06
and I didn't yeah just didn't like being in that situation so I've always I I've
00:29:11
worked all the way through University different jobs and and whatnot worked as a uh Valley Industries in in denen and
00:29:18
um every holidays cuz I mean obviously it was a threeyear term in those days and um and so I just work those
00:29:25
mainstream holidays as a sheep with Med worker you know um and and then I work in the holidays but I try to keep and so
00:29:34
I just try and make these boxes of money versus actually um you know trying to work the whole year cuz I mean you're
00:29:42
there to study yeah and and I was okay at study but you know I was doing the denan
00:29:50
thing pretty well you you went back as an adult and got a second degree so i'
00:29:55
I'd argue you're good at study um another thing that's worth um withth
00:30:00
worth highlighting just a point to drive home so back when you're working 70
00:30:03
hours a week as a like in your 18s and you're um doing all this hard training
00:30:08
as well rugby was still amateur then so it wasn't like that wasn't your pathway
00:30:12
out of uh you you were doing it just for the just for the sport not Financial reward
00:30:20
I I think i' I'd had one season where i' trained I'd had I had two games for a
00:30:26
Targo one is uh too president side and I think we played against um New Zealand universities and then I had one game in
00:30:35
the NPC against Southland and in the game against Southland I just got absolutely stitched
00:30:42
up by uh Paul henison and um that kind of really irked me and um and and through a couple of things
00:30:53
that happened you know like um you know I could Hunter he said to me I want you to go and ring um Jin and
00:31:01
have a discussion I and I didn't I didn't I just ignored it and then so then I went home and then I sort of
00:31:07
thought about it a little bit and I thought if you want to push up into the next level cuz I'd always been the bench
00:31:13
warmer for a guy called Tony hump who was the incumbent for a Tigo at the time and um and I'd never played for any of
00:31:21
the you know like the atigo sides pre pre there you know I couldn't make under
00:31:26
n intigo couldn't make uh under 21s to too but I had played um you know I was
00:31:36
Top Dog of i' stayed in Hawks Bay you know and so I went to all the the the the national New Zealand stuff on the
00:31:43
stuff that i' done in uh in hooks Bay but still couldn't make any teams just you know little
00:31:51
little white boy you know um but so I just thought I've got to make some changes here and and I guess it
00:31:59
coincided with being pissed off at the at a weir girl and and and decided you know I'm going to go home and I'll show
00:32:06
everyone I'll show everyone you know well that's a it's a great a great um
00:32:10
yeah like a reflection great way to deal with um your heartbreak like just to BU
00:32:14
yourself into some hard work yeah well when I look at it back now I was think why did why did I even feel that
00:32:20
heartbreak but you know I was young I didn't know any different you know um also I also said to myself I was
00:32:27
never going to feel like that again you know like let that sort of stuff so you know learn I guess learned from that
00:32:34
that moment too you know like there's even when you're feeling how you're
00:32:38
feeling there's opportunities to to negate that you know um and ironically it was through work
00:32:48
and training that that and and and I was really enjoying the work too you know like um you go obviously at Fantasy Land
00:32:55
dealing with people and stuff like that but I was also so rebuilding stuff you know it's lovely to um create or restore
00:33:03
stuff you know was it was a really cool job that that that summer and then at night you're just around people that are
00:33:11
just wanted to have a good time you know like so it's fun and I love love being
00:33:16
glassy you know like the working the do got got it's ups and downs and working
00:33:21
the bar is just manic but when you're glassy you you're out and you can talk
00:33:26
to people you can pick stuff up you know you can socialize it it was it was a good it was yeah it was a good really
00:33:35
good period I loved it it was nice and um just a couple more of these miscellaneous bits um you once called
00:33:41
Paul Henry a [ __ ] on live TV was was this after you got um voted off Dancing With the stff yeah it was it
00:33:48
was oh just seemed so wrong I mean he to be honest he a great I don't know how he
00:33:54
used to say stuff about the girls you know then and don't get me wrong I'm probably as bad as most males
00:34:02
you know in that respect but he just stay stuff on public television and I just go that's just not right and anyway
00:34:10
and he made a few comments about Rachel I mean she was a be all right she was a sexy looking woman you know she was
00:34:18
beautiful she was attractive she she um wore um clothing that accentuated you know who she and she's a dancer you know
00:34:27
like that's that's what they do that's their their bread and butter they they
00:34:30
wear clothes that um present them in in a in an attractive uh D I say it feminine light
00:34:39
and um I don't know if that's even PC to say it like that but that's the way she
00:34:45
was and then he made a CP about her her boobs and it it just really annoyed me cuz I saw saw her roll her eyes around
00:34:51
and I thought H you know mate if you've been a [ __ ] you've been a [ __ ] you know simple
00:34:58
as that and um ra ra was stucked she was you know like she you know she said to me afterwards that was awesome so um I
00:35:09
didn't realize it was going to make such a h but anyway no it was it was good you
00:35:13
yeah you called him out I suppose you were woke before woke was a thing yeah well not even not even woke Just sh
00:35:21
shiver yeah may maybe like I just it just was wrong manate I I I just wouldn't make CP about someone's
00:35:29
breasts ever you know like so publicly in front of you know and and he knew it too you know but I mean he's always been
00:35:42
good at um poking the beer poking the beer yeah absolutely um you were once the rugby coach of U Machu Walters from
00:35:52
660 yeah yeah yeah yeah those boys are um yeah uh Eli PA and aani um yeah they they uh when was that so this was when
00:36:03
you were back in back studying studying phys theapy inen as an adult post your rugby career yeah so I went I went back
00:36:10
to UNI um decided I want to be a Physio and um uh John Leslie was said he was going
00:36:18
to coach the um the Cults at that time and I and he asked if I'd do it and I
00:36:24
said yeah I can do that that sounds good and so um he was he coach uh definitely he
00:36:33
coach uh and I was the um the but I was you know looking after the Fords you know he wanted me to look after the
00:36:40
Fords and and I reckon we had a real good uh good C cop bad cop sort of scenario going you know like he he was
00:36:47
serious about things and I'd lighten it up and then you know when I was serious
00:36:51
he lighten it up you know so uh we worked really well together and but with the one thing that we really wanted the
00:36:59
boys to understand is how much fun University rugby is and we wanted them to uh Play Hard uh train hard and party
00:37:10
hard you know we wanted them well I look like when if whenever I talk about my time in University um
00:37:17
especially when I was playing University rugby it's magical it's so like you
00:37:23
can't put it in any other words it's magical like you you you're playing with
00:37:28
guys who likeminded who fun you're all doing the same thing together at Uni you
00:37:34
know different obviously different parts of but you you're in an Institute together there and um and and it's all
00:37:43
about just enjoying the moment and we at the my first year at University we had Tony Gilbert who became uh later on a
00:37:53
coach and yeah Highlanders coached for many years and go gone blank and this is that's
00:38:03
um sorry and this is what happens I just lose um and he was a great man passed away and um not Gordon no preg Gordon
00:38:14
preg Gordon and I'm feeling embarrassed I can remember the his wife's name here
00:38:18
on but that's it um anyway probably fix it with AI or something yeah it'll come
00:38:23
back it'll come um it'll come back I was under pressure I just pulled it couldn't
00:38:27
pull it out but um they were they were a great you know they coaching peer that just encompassed just about enjoying
00:38:37
your time together as a team you know and so and then I went from there and then they coached us later on with
00:38:44
University uh a and I and I did three years with them and we had a three Peak win and it was all about you know the
00:38:54
the time within the team and playing really good brand of code and then going out and and sharing the joy of it
00:39:02
afterwards and so when Macho and and the boys came in um we really really wanted
00:39:10
them to have that too you know and so um you know we did things that we did at University with them and and they seem
00:39:22
to love it what like like Court sessions is that what you mean we did court sessions yeah well although they the
00:39:28
first couple of Court sessions that they ran uh John and I um you know we we finished it and we did it a couple of
00:39:35
times and and and we were walking home afterwards and I was speaking to jail and I say I geez that was pretty awful
00:39:44
wasn't it he goes he goes that terrible that terrible I don't understand at all
00:39:50
and so anyway the next time we organized a court session he he made us take it and so we set up the the the you know
00:39:59
how it's meant to be you know like it's it's a serious Affair but we're going to
00:40:03
have fun when we're having fun and you know and so the adjudication because there's no talking Out Of Tune you you
00:40:10
only get when you've got the stage you can talk how long you want to talk or
00:40:15
unless it's a a set uh limit to your talk time but um but the judges are control of everything and um and if you
00:40:25
penalized or you Abus that um the judges come down as hard as they feel that they
00:40:31
should and often the team ends up it grows that discipline cuz they had no discipline
00:40:40
and uh so next thing we know um they don't want they don't want the the boys to play they want us to run
00:40:48
the court sessions but we we're trying to install it in them to get them to grow it so I don't know how many we
00:40:54
ended up taking with the boys but um eventually they got the hang of it and you know and but what a lot of people
00:41:01
don't get about court sessions it's also a chance to a the negative stuff in a
00:41:07
safe environment you know where a young man can put his hand up and say I made a I made a mistake you know
00:41:17
should you know whether it was not tuning out the training or not being there or or stuffing some up in the game
00:41:23
or whatever it's a safe environment put his hand on and the boys the boys just
00:41:28
will go yay you know you you've done you're awesome you brought it out and
00:41:32
they'll patch you on the back and then you're back in the fold you know you're
00:41:35
not just clearing the air clearing the air and and um but it was also a time to Champion the good stuff as well you know
00:41:44
and like really make a a song and a dance around some some of the achievements that happen cuz and they
00:41:52
they weren't always about the rugby it might be you know something that have
00:41:57
been going on in the in in in the real world and they've they've achieved
00:42:00
something and the boys have bring them in and celebrated that achievement as the team you know and
00:42:07
so uh it was awesome and you know Maru didn't want to speak uh sing in front of
00:42:13
everyone but everybody knew he had a good voice and in the end he was made to bring his guitar and and play really
00:42:20
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and and Lead things did you Did you sort of see him grow in confidence over yeah
00:42:27
definitely definitely definitely and then like he just you could see he didn't
00:42:32
want to I it's all good it's all good too shy too yeah yeah and but he he'd do
00:42:37
it under jur and then and then it then it became I well I mean maybe other people saw it differently but that's
00:42:45
what it felt like for for myself watching it and but he was an awesome part of of that team and and singing
00:42:51
songs cuz I can never remember all the words of songs anyway so I just yell along yeah I let's talk about that cuz
00:42:58
you've mentioned the memory things thing a couple of times um yeah some other
00:43:03
injuries like from the well I was going to say from the neck down but there's a
00:43:06
lot of there's 500 facial stitches there's um there's uh a left ankle
00:43:10
reconstruction elbow cleanouts broken toes and fingers broken wrists Rotator CF tears a broken nose and jaw hip tears
00:43:19
yeah 500 stitches to the face and head um how how are you in the mornings now like when you get out of bed uh first
00:43:26
CLE couple minutes is it slow to warm up or some days is really oh I've got um
00:43:31
from got given a be through from uh slone and they're um oh man that's like
00:43:39
it's all I can say is get a good bed that like every time I climb in it's you know and um
00:43:49
I when I roll out and put my feet on the floor that that's I I never know how
00:43:55
sore they going to be day by day so winter it's a bit sorer than summer yeah well it also depends on
00:44:01
how much weight I'm carrying you know like I'm at the moment I'm I'm probably
00:44:06
about 8 kg over what I what what feels most comfortable and that's my own fault
00:44:11
I've been um through the winter you know rugby invited to to drink more than I
00:44:17
normally drink and um and and then when you when you're drinking you tend to eat
00:44:23
more than you eat normally eat as well so I think you know managing your weight as
00:44:29
you get older makes a massive difference especially if you're carrying um stuff
00:44:33
that's just not great like my ankles when I was 33 I spraying my ankles and the St John's people I was riding I was
00:44:40
racing motorbikes and and uh and a highight and flipped over and landed on my heels and the St John's people said
00:44:47
oh we really need you to go to the the an and I just thought that sprained and so I went in and they were just sprained
00:44:54
but doctor comes out and uh and she see and she sees me and she goes oh my goodness and I went what do you mean oh
00:45:03
my goodness and and she said she says oh I was expecting you to be an 80-year-old and uh and and I says what
00:45:11
do you mean she says oh just been looking at your ankles and they're just a mess you know um and you know went
00:45:20
looking if we jump back I can understand why when I jump back you know um St wals
00:45:27
did the original reconstruction surgery and that I'd only played one season I hadn't even finished the
00:45:34
season um I was walking we were in France and I was walking back to start a game and I hadn't straet my ankles I was
00:45:41
going to get a cal massage and then get them stra and um I stood in a pothole and
00:45:48
rolled my ankle and blew it out and um uh and just went home got sent sent home 10 days later
00:45:57
you you injured yourself like before before the anthemist before the hacker before before anything yeah so I didn't
00:46:03
even so it was a it was a midweek game and uh needed to play that that I'd injured it previously and um in the
00:46:13
final against Oakland uh for NBC and then we've gone away to France and they
00:46:19
elected to take me and everything was going to plan I was back I done two full trainings and you know I was
00:46:27
and this was my going to be my return game to see that if I was okay ready to play at a test level again and just
00:46:35
ironically stood in a pole and um that's I I mean part of me thinks that's
00:46:41
hilarious but there's a big part of me that say [ __ ] I was laughing and I was crying and I was having all the all
00:46:49
of the uh emotions that you can have in those situations and then came back and Stu Walsh who was always going to do a
00:46:57
little clear out cuz i' i' broken a little lug off it's called an ostr Gman
00:47:01
off the back of your ankle and it was giving me some jerp and they were just going to clean it out it's like you're
00:47:06
back in playing rugby in two weeks once it's cleaned out and um so that was going to be at the end of the season but
00:47:12
I'd destroy my ankle and so they effectively did four ankle uh four operations in one uh about 4 and 1 half
00:47:21
hours on the on the table and um I but I reckon about a year year after it or maybe about that duration St said to me
00:47:31
we weren't sure you were going to make it back we were all having bets whether
00:47:34
you were going to make it back and I was oh I'm glad you didn't tell me that but and then when I think about the
00:47:43
rehab back from that injury as well was like I had no um I had no support there wasn't someone um taking me to do physio
00:47:53
every day I remember my first my my first day of rehab was when I was allowed to get the boot of I walked
00:47:58
around a block the second day I W walked around it twice the next day I walked around it three times and then then it
00:48:04
was two blocks and then three blocks and then I was running and then they said you need to be back on this date and
00:48:12
then and then so uh for playing Super which was the last three super uh games I think and so played about I don't know
00:48:22
start or started the game got about 60 minutes into the game and I twe twak my ankle and I freaked out you know just
00:48:29
went oh you know and so I came off and then I went and saw The Specialist and um he said n no it's fine I think you
00:48:39
know maybe a bit of Scar isssues what give you the pain but um you know cuz you you're worried about it you you've
00:48:46
already destroyed it and so I was that's awesome and then um I was just about to walk out the door and I
00:48:54
turn around and I said to the specialist I said oh um I said John can you can you uh can
00:49:01
you can you have a look at my wrist and anyway cuz it's been really sore I don't I don't remember doing
00:49:07
anything to it it's been really sore anyway poke and P it and he goes oh I think you've broken there and so sent me
00:49:14
upstairs for X-ray and it was broken so broken the whole lug off the side of the
00:49:20
the rest and of course I'm thinking what do I do now you know I've I've
00:49:27
you know if I want to be an all black I've got to play so I played a whole season with a broken arm when I finished
00:49:31
the season it was still broken you know um yeah just like taping it up yeah I I wore a I had a little cast thing that I
00:49:39
used to um it was hard that stopped the you know cuz those days people used to stand on
00:49:47
you you know and and uh so uh it justed you know just protected that so yeah that hole in 96 yeah it was wasn't great
00:49:57
um so you so you played 54 test for the old blacks how many of how many of them do you feel like you would have been
00:50:03
playing at 100% or did you always have something going on uh no I I there was times what
00:50:12
I was 100% but if I think you know like where I was at my best was that first year cuz I I was never the same I
00:50:21
couldn't run like I don't know I reckon it knocked 30% of my speed off me um so
00:50:27
I just changed my game my game I'd always got over the ball and picked the ball up which was unique I guess in
00:50:34
those days um but my whole real premise was on about uh support play you know was about getting to where I needed to
00:50:44
get and trying to crop up in situations where I shouldn't crop up and so that's
00:50:50
that's kind of what I did and then I realized couldn't really do that and I
00:50:54
was starting to think well what else can I do in my game that it's kind of um
00:50:58
pretty strong and and then I thought all right well I'm going to be on the breakdown I'm going to be that dude
00:51:04
that's a pain in the ass and steal ball and you know slow stuff down and get
00:51:10
people W winging at me yeah you I know I know very little about rugby but your your position is the same as um Rich
00:51:17
mccc's position was was he a cheat everyone everyone from every other country outside of New Zealand says he
00:51:23
was a cheat no as an open side flank someone that was good what you look mate I had dudes um tning up with a
00:51:35
computer um and showing it to the referee before games and saying look look at what Josh gell is doing there
00:51:41
was a massive whoar about it which I thought I thought was pretty disgusting you know sure you have the conversation
00:51:49
but you don't T up with video evidence F anyway uh um anyway look so in terms
00:51:59
of Richie was he a cheat no he just understood the the rules really well and applied it to the
00:52:07
in of uh of being penalized you know and that's a really good number seven to be
00:52:13
honest you know especially in the modern game I mean it's and it's getting harder
00:52:18
and harder you know like poor old Sam with you know um you know yellow cards red cards and and and and you know
00:52:28
that's not him he's not doing that stuff on intentionally he's just he's pushing
00:52:34
his body to the limit to to be in the best position to do his job and you can't adjust as quick as they
00:52:44
you know they say you need to you know like if you're if you're tracking
00:52:49
someone especially want to think of Sam if you're tracking someone and you're
00:52:53
thinking right he's going to end up over there I'm going to make a sight on t T
00:52:56
there and so you're not going down into your tackle position yet cuz you're
00:53:01
thinking you're going to make the tackle there and then the dude suddenly steps
00:53:04
back at you and you actually can't get out of the way you're there you know he
00:53:10
steep back into you um and you there's no way you can get down in that time you're not expecting the step because
00:53:16
you're thinking you make tackle just over there um yeah look the game is it it's it's I I can't I can't work
00:53:28
out how they managed to ref it they've created so much issue around every situation and I know they're trying to
00:53:36
do it for safety reasons and stuff but you know like a seat belt tackle you know why do we have seat
00:53:44
belts to save people from breaking their necks and their their shoulders and their arms and stuff like that for
00:53:50
safety goes across the seat belt so how is the seat belt tickle dangerous obviously if you go around the neck
00:53:57
holder from ball game yeah there was another quote from you I read it says um you know nothing works my brain doesn't
00:54:06
work as good my body doesn't work as good I don't have all those little Nuance nuances that gave me an edge
00:54:12
anymore the the the brain thing I've noticed youve paused a couple of times and to be fair I think a lot of that is
00:54:17
just when we had our 50s but did were there times in your career where you look back now and you think you know cuz
00:54:23
there's the the whole hi thing now head injury assessment um back then if you
00:54:28
knocked your head and you felt groggy would you try and stay on yeah was no no reason to come off um look I think I
00:54:37
know more about it now than I did that back then you know like and I mean that's the whole premise of these court
00:54:43
cases that are going around um was did the administration know about it and I don't know that'll come out in the in
00:54:52
the Woodwork when it does but for me um um I had a a major concussion about 6 years ago where I was knocked out in the
00:55:00
water um didn't know where I was um when I kind of came to in the water um apparently people have been pulling my
00:55:09
head out and what were you surfing yeah I was surfing and um I just remember lying in the water thinking oh that hurt
00:55:16
I just need a moment like at the bottom of a rock just need a moment get up I'm
00:55:20
going to get up and I know I need to take a breath of air but at the moment I'm sweet I just need a moment and uh
00:55:26
when I came up and sort of climbed on my board and and I started paddling back into the current to go back out cuz in
00:55:33
my brain eyes was getting another way you know I'm just taking a hit but yeah
00:55:36
I'll be right by the time I get back out and I was looking at uh the cliffs and I
00:55:41
was going denan doesn't have Cliffs like that I was at Peart so it took me going
00:55:49
back in uh took me about I don't know 40 minutes getting re you know changed and
00:55:55
and getting in the car and thinking didn't feel dizzy but I just couldn't
00:56:00
work out where I was and then I worked out that I was in Oakland and then it was like why am I in
00:56:06
Oakland and then I worked out that I was living in Oakland and I didn't really
00:56:11
remember where I was living till I got top of the P Hill and uh and I got to the top and you know went into order oh
00:56:19
yeah I live just down the road here so um jeez that's not great no I know and
00:56:24
then by the time I got there um you know it's like it was dark and it was probably 9:00 at night I came and and my
00:56:33
neck had seized up as well couldn't move it and so I said to BR I said to my wife
00:56:38
bran um I'm not good I think you going have take me to the hospital so she run
00:56:44
got friend around to come look after the kids and took me to the hospital the neck was uh as poked it's
00:56:50
got lots of issues but I hadn't done anything too major so I had fractured anything that are you worried about um
00:56:57
Dementia or anything like that or is there a link between yeah so look yeah probably I've kind of didn't even finish
00:57:03
that story in some respect so obviously went through the whole process cuz I had
00:57:07
a bit of a personality change over that period and my wife started to get worried about it just I was just
00:57:12
reactive you know I just couldn't deal with stuff and um and Bonnie says we got to go and get
00:57:20
checked out and so we went got checked out and everything came out pretty a okay but the thing that did out was that
00:57:27
um when I was speaking to uh concussive physio she was explaining why I was getting so worked out because I have a
00:57:36
tracking issue and so my eyes and it's real common uh for people that have concussion so my eyes when they're
00:57:45
tracking each eye has an image that it's tracking and the eyes um put them in an
00:57:52
angle that lays the image over each other like like that and for me um when I'm tracking it sometimes
00:58:01
does that and well actually does it a lot does it HS and so I spent about four months five months trying to train it
00:58:08
and it just gave up in the end I just got too frustrated was just and so I just I just enjoy the Halo that you
00:58:16
have and for some people that's a good thing yeah wow and uh but the the thing
00:58:22
that H at it is you know when she explained all this stuff to me I used have a thing I called it the gong so you
00:58:28
go into a situation you go to get the ball and you get smashed and you can feel the hits coming so sometimes you
00:58:36
might close your eyes and but or but maybe sometimes those contacts were a little mini
00:58:42
blackout and you come around and you feel normal you can compute and everything like that but you physically
00:58:49
feel in here like someone's just hit a giant gong behind you know and I'd get I'd have one of
00:58:59
those a month you know without fail and um so the tracking thing started cuz I used to talk about the Halo thing when I
00:59:09
was about 20 and I had some tests and stuff like that but no one ever really went down the brain route they went down
00:59:16
the neck route and as it works out when you treat someone's neck often when they've got head concussion through
00:59:22
impact the neck treatment relieves a lot of the concussion um symptoms just by the general work so
00:59:31
I can understand why the doctors everyone went that way but that means you know like since I was
00:59:37
like 21 22 I've had that concussive stuff all the way through my career but soon as someone explained it
00:59:47
to me and so your brain is going there's a problem there's a problem there's a
00:59:52
problem and so um um it's trying to fix the problem and its reaction is flight or fright you
01:00:00
know and so they your C levels are ramped all the time and you're ready to go and you
01:00:08
don't know that and I've always been a cruzy dude and so to be reactive was
01:00:13
kind of or impatient um yeah just to get frustrated or F the handle e yeah yeah yeah and
01:00:20
that's what my wife was talking about cuz she'd never seen that and um but as
01:00:25
soon as and and even br will say this like as soon as the physio explained it to me and I understood
01:00:33
it and they ruled out the other stuff like dementia and stuff like that um I mean that's still something maybe for
01:00:41
the future picture but at the moment there was nothing uh that they could find and but as soon as I understood it
01:00:49
it was like the volume KN just got turned the opposite way you know and um I went from being
01:00:57
that really reactive to you know more my normal self and don't get me wrong I
01:01:03
still struggle you know but I'm able to go well I know why you're getting fired
01:01:07
up so I can let that go slight a bit my kids might not say that though so yeah so um one of your sort of
01:01:15
I guess trademarks I guess was your was the head gear that you used to wear was that um was that to protect your head or
01:01:21
your ears what's the so originally you know when I said when I first started
01:01:26
getting those symptoms as a young man um they decided was the neck and the the people that were dealing with it
01:01:34
suggested well why don't you try some head gear and see if that helps um cushion the blows transferring down your
01:01:40
neck you know cuz you know you everyone remembers Sam Kane going into contact points you know like and how he hits and
01:01:49
and some of the knocks that they're Tak to the face and the head and all all at
01:01:53
the same time and so I well yeah I'll give it a go so I wore hi gear for maybe
01:01:58
I reckon about three or four games and I went ah this isn't really working and then um I didn't wear it and
01:02:07
the next thing I knew I had my I had 15 stitches in my head I had like every time felt like my I played maybe about
01:02:15
three or four games without it and it felt like my head was going to explode after games just cuz I was playing at
01:02:20
that top level again now you know and and it was just massive and and I thought I didn't have that for those
01:02:28
other four games you know but I was playing at the same level so I thought oh I'll try wearing it again instantly
01:02:34
made a difference you know so it just takes the bruising that you get straight to your skull and stuff like that it was
01:02:41
never going to oh I might make a tiny difference soften the blow somewhat yeah somewhat but if you're in a concussive
01:02:49
situation you're always going to that's going to happen it's not going to limit
01:02:53
it might decrease the the level of it I even did a um a little mini study on it when I was at at FID school to see if it
01:03:01
was a um thing cuz you know you it's just what you did but it became a big big part of you didn't it like you could
01:03:08
identify you by the by the head gear and and then there was the um the yeah the known nukes thing yeah um yeah what year
01:03:15
was that Cy uh so the no nukes thing must have been 97 no maybe 98 98 cuz they were still
01:03:28
testing yeah in obviously in the Pacific and um we would have been going over oh
01:03:37
no oh yeah it must have been so you were well as you be so you first met the team
01:03:43
in 95 so you were sort of well established um but where did that come from that sort of social social
01:03:48
conscience or the oh I don't I don't think I had a I don't think I was that
01:03:53
way of mind but I was PR liberal and thinking and um you know and around lots of different people from you know I'd
01:04:03
say unique backgrounds and and and thought processes and thinking just that Varsity environment yeah a whole of
01:04:10
Varsity environment and um and my girlfriend and I we were sitting there we were reading the newspaper one night
01:04:19
um was newspapers yeah yeah free internet yeah so um and uh and and I just sit around I I can't
01:04:30
believe that you know you've got French people your people because you're a part
01:04:36
of Polynesia and you're testing in your people's back backyard if and you're
01:04:43
saying it's not safe how can why aren't you doing it in France France you know
01:04:47
like not not not in the PO you know it just didn't make any sense and of course
01:04:52
we're all still uh I think agree d by the whole um you know when they come over andow warbow Warrior thing you know
01:05:02
so it you know so there was a little bit of Ence there and so we were sitting there and then um anyway I just got a
01:05:10
new set of head gear um through Canterbury and and I sort of I said to her chicky why do we put a no no nukes
01:05:21
uh symbol on so we we were making sure we got we went around trying to make sure we got the the right symbol uh you
01:05:28
know and have it the right way up and all that sort of stuff and then so it's
01:05:31
not a Mercedes ben yeah yeah yeah and then um and then we and we had a twink remember the twink pins you know and we
01:05:38
did it all with twink and by the pin or the bottle with the little brush the squeezy squeezy squeezy um you know with
01:05:45
the dot and everything like that correction fluid yeah yeah yeah yeah and so we we we did it we didn't do too bad
01:05:50
a job but um and we're laughing with it was it was a fun project project with
01:05:55
the girlfriend and and and we laughed about it and anyway I wore it uh in the I think it was a shield challenge maybe
01:06:05
against um wo and I don't know was going to C such a you know you must have no I didn't I
01:06:15
didn't but this was a time where there was no sort of individuality oh I know
01:06:20
but I mean like I was in a team where everybody was individual you know like Gordon Hunter and this is this is what I
01:06:28
always wish he got a chance at the big job you know he was so unique and then any any any player that you speak to who
01:06:35
had anything to do with Gordy will will say good stuff and that you know you talked to a few of the Blues boys now he
01:06:42
might not have been the greatest coach coach but just for managing people getting them on song with a plan and a
01:06:52
and a and a and a direction of things he used people around around him to help bu
01:06:57
all there he he just knew how to to work people and um so I I never felt that anyone was going to and and when the
01:07:07
boys saw it you know at um you know we were in the team room pre the game and stuff like that they didn't give it the
01:07:14
stuff they thought it was hilarious you know we always thought it was a big bit of a bit of a joke but but a an
01:07:19
important statement you know the Pacific's our backyard not not not France ansers and
01:07:27
so I wore it and I got a letter telling me Oh from who like the nzu yeah yeah yeah all of that and I still remember um
01:07:40
so then we were going cuz at the end of that season um that NPC we were going to
01:07:46
France so yeah I think it must have been 99 yeah and okay so you were a big star
01:07:52
at the time this was like Peak Josh corfield yeah yeah and and then um and uh tree assisted me well this is um
01:08:03
s Colin me Po yeah I say he was all black manager I wonder if it was earlier was it earlier was it when I went over
01:08:10
and got injured it must it might have been earlier sorry it may have it may have been earlier so no I was just uh
01:08:16
you know but I was playing in a you know with a really good at Taro side and all
01:08:20
that sort so it might have been yeah so the end of year 95 I don't know it's
01:08:26
yeah I'm sorry I I just I can't pick where it where it fits in but I think
01:08:31
the the the earlier the earlier into your black career it is assuming it happened early on the more impressive
01:08:35
this is that you had the the balls or the carage the one thing that I do remember and I while that a swear on
01:08:41
this thing course so uh so says to me he goes uh new georia look look I understand what you're doing
01:08:50
with the head gear and stuff like that you know you know but I don't want to
01:08:54
[ __ ] see it at all for the rest of the year and I went oh yeah okay and then and then he
01:09:01
goes he goes we get to France I don't give a [ __ ] you actually look like Colin Ms
01:09:07
when you do the impression it's amazing wow you know and and and and so he got
01:09:13
it but he was just saying look I don't I don't need any trouble while while we're
01:09:17
here in New Zealand let's just go under the radar but when we get so I actually
01:09:21
had one already made up in black and white to go to to France you know to play against uh the
01:09:28
French um ironically I've never um never got to play in France oh yeah so that
01:09:35
must be around the same time that you had a like a moon boot on and you had the no nukes yeah yeah so it would have
01:09:39
been 95 right right in the 95 so that Moon boot with the um the no nukes logo on that happened after you got that
01:09:46
injury yeah 95 sorry man is that where is that where you um you um cried in front of colum Maids oh yeah yeah yeah
01:09:54
yeah I've got a I've got a book out there from um this it's this amazing
01:09:59
beautiful coffee table book that Rick celito was behind called um this I know is true and it's like profiles of some
01:10:05
new zealanders and Colin Ms is in there and he's talking about the last time he
01:10:08
cried and he thinks it was when he had like hooping cough when he was seven or eight years old so the man never cried
01:10:14
so you oh yeah so you you need to understand the situation so I've just blow my ankle and I hop into the
01:10:22
changing room and they freak out and and they Usher me into a side room uh just you know next to the um changing room
01:10:31
and cuz the boys are all getting ready to play the game and we were all jammed into this tiny room like smaller than
01:10:37
this room and uh I'm sitting on the seat and the physio is on there the dock
01:10:44
standing over top of him Colin me standing over the top of him and then two coaches um I think it was ear
01:10:53
and Lori Lori and Lori and um uh and the doctor grabs my ankle and he just bends it around and it goes
01:11:04
around basically past 90° and just keeps going and I've got no no pain none at
01:11:11
all which means you've ruptured everything M and uh the um the dock I sorry the fizzy goes ey
01:11:23
says he just says it's [ __ ] anyway I just burst into tears cuz you know I wanted to play in France you know and
01:11:32
and I burst in tears and then and then all of a sudden I start laughing I'm crying and I'm laughing you
01:11:38
know and just at the comedy of the situation it's so ridiculous and then I'm angry and then I'm back crying and
01:11:44
everything like that and I remember looking up and gazing into um tre's eyes
01:11:48
and I could just see them just not knowing where to look and looking really uncomfortable and then so then I I I
01:11:56
don't know I was regaling the story to Rick one time and and Rick said to me
01:12:00
what do you know the rest of that story and I say n and he goes well tree came out and he goes Rick Rick what do I do
01:12:08
what do I do well Rick goes what do you mean he goes I've got one of my boys in
01:12:12
there and he's crying I don't know what to do and Rick goes well I think he'd be
01:12:16
you know he's pretty upset you give him a moment he'd be fine tree anyways
01:12:20
anyway tree being tree he disappears and he he he goes in and he goes into the and at the team bag and grabs a a 22 all
01:12:29
black juicy and he comes out and he goes yeah take this home don't [ __ ] tell
01:12:37
anyone and I said and what people W realizes the the humor of it is that you don't get an all black Jersey to take
01:12:47
home unless you play a a test but he'd seen one of his boys crying and not and that was his way of dealing with it
01:12:59
but don't tell anyone oh that's an amazing story that's incredible but does
01:13:03
that have you still got that Jersey it feel feel kind of hollow wouldn't it yeah no I don't think I have and I I do
01:13:10
but part of me because of who s Colin mes was and and how much AG grew to love who he was as a person wishes that I
01:13:22
still had that or I just knew where I it have gone to I I I've I haven't given
01:13:28
away many of my jerseys to um you know to sell for charity or whatever I've given away
01:13:35
jerseys um to people um you know who are you know very sick um oh I've heard
01:13:43
there's people that have been buried in that's special so [Music] um yeah you know like I don't that's
01:13:55
I don't know I don't I don't need them for anything else really and I sitting
01:13:59
now and and more recently I I actually fun went and did a um fundraiser for Billy steerman and um and that's
01:14:07
probably the first one I ever said here you seller it cuz it you know like it's
01:14:12
just to get him some money cuz he was paying off the back of his own pocket to go and practice that chopu for the for
01:14:20
the Olympics so I thought you know take one of these so you're not overly s Al
01:14:25
have you you got I'm not now I think I was like there's a few Jersey I mean
01:14:29
obviously yeah 95 my first jersey against Canada I've got that um and you know I've got um I definitely want to
01:14:38
keep one of the 96ers I still need to give one back to S Michael Jones I haven't done that it's coming it's
01:14:45
coming it's coming what what do you mean give oh well so I asked s Michael um if
01:14:50
I could um have one of his jerseys and I and I he could have one of mine but I hadn't watched it at the time and uh it
01:14:57
had gone way into the kit bag so he gave me and it's it's got um signed um to
01:15:02
Josh from mik Jones and um and but I've still got it there I just need to go
01:15:10
around he was he he in the same position as you uh he was originally obviously but um you know when I uh sort of had
01:15:18
made you know solidified where I was um he he uh you know he played number six cuz I in 19 90 again '95 massive year
01:15:32
when I came back um I got actually dropped by uh uh Lori for Michael and um you know I even I still remember I've
01:15:42
been dropped a couple of times at different at different periods of my game for different reasons but got
01:15:49
dropped for this time and um and I remember when l was sort of telling me yeah um we're only doing it
01:15:58
not because of how you play but we feel like Michael has a more a brace of tackle than you and and I and I went
01:16:07
okay yeah and I didn't even hear that all I could hear was I've been I've been
01:16:11
dropped for Michael Jones you oh goodness you know Michael Jones is replacing me you're fine I'm
01:16:19
okay with it you know I didn't even I didn't even hear that I don't give me
01:16:22
wrong I was I was got it and as it worked out you know like um Michael ended up getting I think might have got
01:16:28
a h knock and coming off at half time and that was the last time he ever played a h of me at 7 so um and and and
01:16:38
you know it was super special for me I mean I got to play with one of my Idols next to me you know what I mean
01:16:46
like we're talking code game you know pretty special so Michael Jones Zen Zan
01:16:54
Brook and myself on the sides you know it's it's it was pretty amazing it's
01:16:59
aack was that was that yeah what are your Recollections of first making the O was it an intimidating must have been
01:17:04
who who who didn't speak to you I've heard so many stories about like Fitzy
01:17:08
Fitzy not speaking to people in the first uh few weeks of the year yeah no FY FY no he spoke to me because he he that
01:17:17
they all did they had different ways of managing and that I mean I wasn't a real
01:17:23
young guy when I made the old black house 2425 but you know they they definitely
01:17:29
there's that school of hard kns you know I remember uh when we were doing the camps
01:17:35
in '94 and at the start of '94 it broke my jaw and um so I didn't play any Super
01:17:41
Rugby and then they were going to have to pick a a a World Cup team from that um and uh so I didn't think there was
01:17:51
any chance of me no sorry it would have been I broke maor at the start of 95 didn't play any Super Rugby and um so I
01:17:59
didn't think I was going to make it so when we were doing these training camps
01:18:04
either like I had one of those boxers mouth guards to keep my jaw closed cuz I was just come back from there and and um
01:18:11
you know we trained really hard and physically and I remember Shan I was standing there and I come around the
01:18:17
side of a rock and was going to join the next part of the phase and shord Patrick
01:18:22
lean leans out as I'm running past and hooks me straight in the stomach and drops me and like I'm bringing up my
01:18:30
lunch and you know like I'm trying to get up and and you know Lori comes over
01:18:35
and goes get up all blacks don't show pain and I'm just go trying to cough and
01:18:40
stuff like this everything like that and um and I got up and got on with it and everything like that and I've never
01:18:46
quite understood why why why it happened but I started to think you know like when I break it down
01:18:56
it was actually just to see whether you were up for it you know like there's two
01:19:00
things that could have happened you know could have obviously I it di could pated me right
01:19:08
then at that moment but I got up got on with stuff started going hard you know and reacted and I got him a bit later
01:19:17
you know that's just what but he if I gone ridiculous got up and then tried to
01:19:21
chase him around and and go he a chicken he's no good loses the plot you know Red
01:19:27
Mist Red Mist and then but I got up and then just got on with the job you know and so it was old school school of of
01:19:36
hard kns to see what aptitude I had for reaction you know what how I going to respond to it
01:19:45
and for me it was just ignoring it but yeah it's it's strange in reflection cuz
01:19:50
it is just how it was at the time but um how things are now which it seems far more inclusive
01:19:56
Sur that's much more conducive for a better team environment oh we know that
01:20:00
but you got to remember everything that was New Zealand's professional starting
01:20:05
point was amateur based you know like dudes used to stand on each other all the time you know uh there was a an
01:20:13
essence of you know if you couldn't beat them physically then you took them out
01:20:18
you know like um you know all the old school stories that we all laugh about with you know guys punching each other
01:20:24
in the line outs and stuff like that you know um none of that stuff was still happening you know and and even in the
01:20:33
first year of professionalism to the second year the cameras became more involved in what was going on off the
01:20:42
ball you know like oh used to get taken out all the time like if the guys in my team weren't
01:20:51
looking after me you know I could have been maimed pretty badly you know like it just I can
01:20:58
fully remember guys like Jamie Joseph and um Ro uh Robin Brooke and all your kind of heavy enforcers coming to my
01:21:09
rescue at different times you know um cuz you're at the bottom your arms pinned and someone's dropping a
01:21:16
knee into your face or you know giving you the six punch combo you know you know that's terrified he trying to move
01:21:26
out of the way so let's about 95 since your first first year in the All Blacks it's also
01:21:33
the World Cup year and it's the year where Jonah sort of bursts onto the scene and um I got I was watching some
01:21:39
um YouTube clips last night an anticipation of this and um that England game in particular and I think Jonah's
01:21:45
third try out of those four against England like you pass him the ball and then he goes away with it um yeah what
01:21:51
are your Recollections of that time that that tournament Joon Mania oh look I I just felt blessed to be in
01:21:57
South Africa you know simple as that there was it wasn't anything else I I I
01:22:03
was super fit um I was super like focused to be an all black I wanted to be um making a statement as much as I
01:22:14
could about cuz I mean they left Michael Jones at home and taking me so I I was I
01:22:20
felt that pressure a little too you know maybe not in the Forefront but just little subconscious felt that I had to
01:22:27
do more than validate the decision validate this this decision and then um but I also felt like I was part of
01:22:37
something really special too you know like with that team they they were that was a good team and everyone knows the
01:22:44
final outcome and like I've we've already spoken about um what South Africa was and what it was and I I
01:22:51
genuinely believe there was a fate that played into the whole process and we I know people talk about Suzie and
01:22:59
everything but there was just too many things that led to South Africa getting to where they got and kicking that final
01:23:08
um drop kick you know and so um yeah I look back and I remember games and I think F of it and all that
01:23:19
sort of stuff but I just feel like I was involved in something special and I don't think I took the hit that we lost
01:23:27
as bad as some of the older boys you know cuz they they really you know could they
01:23:34
really felt it I was new and I was still excited about what was coming and up and
01:23:39
coming you know and um and that's probably more when I look at it and I felt to be playing next to Joon lamu at
01:23:47
his absolute best um and when people mention his name my name gets mentioned as you being part
01:23:55
of that you know because I was either throwing a pass to him or getting receiving a pass just like the rest of
01:24:03
the boys um that that's a privilege you know and I feel feel honored to have been
01:24:10
part of that but if you if I think in about that tournament time I still come back to the one game against England
01:24:20
because it was so so different to any other game that I prefare for like I've
01:24:26
never seen such intensity and craziness and like fanatic uh responses to being absolutely
01:24:39
focused like I would say out of the the older boys of that four pack you know your Shan
01:24:45
fitzpatricks your um your Robin Brooks your Zim brand Brook you know all those those those characters ol brown stuff
01:24:52
like that every one of them would reminded me of my job once every day leading up to that
01:25:01
that that game like what's s the reminders oh you know you know you've got to make sure that you're doing this
01:25:06
in this phase or you know we want this when we're playing this situation and
01:25:10
like at what point at training or just if you're in the lift or line for breakfast or you'll be practicing it and
01:25:15
you go remember Josh you need to be off that way quicker when you're doing such
01:25:19
and such you know like it was it was cuz you were a young loose unit or well I was I was I was still but I played a lot
01:25:25
of r i was 24 you know like you know like but it's just what it was I I was just yeah yeah yeah it was but it was
01:25:31
getting kind of boring you know what I mean and um and then and then I and I st to this
01:25:39
St when they were doing the team speeches you know like you know like team chat in the Huddle just before you
01:25:44
about to run out and zenzen Brooke was just thoing at the mouth you know and and like you know like and and when he
01:25:53
was he was you know we've got to do this and then he turned around to me and Josh
01:25:56
I need you to do this and he he literally just spat all over me with froth and and Fitzy was Fitzy was the
01:26:04
same and I've never seen that I mean and it was all because of what had happened
01:26:09
in the previous year or or two years ago when they were in toen on and I didn't
01:26:14
go on that tour and so I didn't feel the hurt that they were feeling and so you
01:26:20
could argue maybe we played our our final in that game you know uh I never felt that though you know I've seen it
01:26:28
internationally and I've felt it and other teams and things I've been involved in that but that game was
01:26:34
massive you know yeah it's Inc incredible like yeah but like career defining for Jer obviously um did you
01:26:42
ever room with him or anything uh with big J no I don't I didn't actually room
01:26:47
with big J um I I he would have definitely commanded the double beard yeah yeah yeah yeah
01:26:54
yeah look it's funny how that all that stuff works you know you come in and I
01:26:58
can remember with when when a room room with Richard L you go you go that's your
01:27:04
bed and then it'll be um there's a problem here there's a problem here and
01:27:09
I what's the problem Lo he go there's no cup of tea and but I mean and you know like
01:27:20
that was just that was just that was just how it all worked you know um big J was and I were um great movie Buddies
01:27:29
like probably in the entire time we were together um we probably went to a movie
01:27:36
at least together every test that we played together um and that that movie could be at the start of the M uh start
01:27:45
of the week or or the night before even just depended on what was going on in the week and and what was on on the at
01:27:53
the movie theater and and and so big J and I would often just let the other boys know what moves are
01:27:58
on and um and uh and if anyone wanted to come they' come sometimes we'd have the
01:28:05
whole whole crew there and other times um it' be just me and him that's cool memories an Odd Couple
01:28:14
an unlikely couple yeah yeah he was he was great he's like you know as much as everybody knew
01:28:21
about him you know and um um you know some of the stuff he used to say at home and you know um about man he came up
01:28:31
from a tough neighborhood you know I I can't even imagine it and um so the way
01:28:38
he comes across you know is that that kind of calm giant you know but his his historical background where he came from
01:28:46
also explains why it was such a ferocious attacking weapon you know yeah how good did you you must have played
01:28:54
against to for like UMO or the Highlanders you were you were a very good Tech CL did you ever yeah look I
01:29:01
only rap myself about 50/50 on a one-on-one tackle with Jonah that's a pass yeah I know I know I
01:29:09
I remember um one time like you know one of my attributes I reckon rugby was I was always able to see uh a picture
01:29:18
rather than just the contact point so I knew where people were coming from and how they were coming into theu situation
01:29:24
I just could see that and um some people will say other ways probably but in my eyes that's what I I remember seeing
01:29:32
Jonah out of the corner of my eye um sort of starting to come into a backline move and I thought right you're coming
01:29:38
in I can see that this is going to happen and I'm so I picked the point where he came in and just as he got the
01:29:44
ball I hit him as clean and as perfect as I could like couldn't have hit him
01:29:49
any any better and I don't know if you've played rugby but you know when
01:29:54
when you get someone perfectly and you feel them fold in half and they start to go down and you're still going forward
01:30:01
through the tackle and I'm thinking right I've got you and then I end up on
01:30:06
the ground and I look up as he runs through John Leslie and scores under the post and and I'm going and I look at my
01:30:14
hands to go as if what what just happened there and I've got a piece of his shorts and either
01:30:22
hand and I SAR that's just not fair that's amazing yeah that's incredible just the yeah wow and then
01:30:33
that's the power and strength of him yeah and then Jonah I actually injured Jonah um uh in a in a game too um and
01:30:42
I'm not sure if it was a super game or whether it was when he was playing counties and um he he had a knee problem
01:30:50
that he sort of struggled with for um quite a long time and I went in to make a tackle and um for whatever reason I
01:30:59
caught the side of my head with his knee and anyway he went off with a knee injury and he I ended up with 30
01:31:08
stitches in my head you know and um and he always go oh you under my knee well I got 30
01:31:18
stitches oh that's good thanks for sharing those memories that's cool and
01:31:22
did you mean um did you meet Mandela yeah well I got to shake his hand um Gordon Hunter became quite good friends
01:31:29
with um the the security um guy and I can't remember Rory's last name but um
01:31:37
he used to come down and catch up with gordi Hunter at at the the pub that we were staying in um you know with uh the
01:31:46
Super Rugby you know which is pretty amazing you know so had a relationship there and um
01:31:54
you know for Nelson to go and just listen to the security guard and come hey can you meet him at M it's pretty
01:32:00
amazing that's awesome yeah um I and I I didn't actually go and meet him and that
01:32:06
cuz all the boys were doing that I thought man he's this bit bit Fon but I did poke my head and have a little log
01:32:12
um but only really just to shake his hand when he came down the came down the aisle so you didn't say hey bro to his
01:32:18
mom no no hey bro his mom but when you when you meet someone like that do you do you you you feel the like some sort
01:32:25
of presence or some sort of aura or not really yeah no you do you do like but I mean you got to understand like um
01:32:33
for me in that given situation was like uh like what the hell's going on why are
01:32:41
we taking so long you know and then it's like you look down oh it's Nelson
01:32:44
Mandela you know oh so this is before the before the final yeah but I didn't
01:32:49
meet him in you know in a social situation I could have um but everybody else is doing it it's just like uh you
01:32:56
know he's had enough of as morons so you meet him before why why didn't they um
01:33:01
like do the Mee and greet after the final like when you're getting the the silver medal or whatever oh look you
01:33:06
know like it makes perfect sense cuz you know like I I think that game took maybe 40
01:33:13
minutes to start from by the time we got out you know was it's that's a long time
01:33:19
you got your anthems the hackers the the walk down the line the sing um you know the plane flying AC all that
01:33:26
sort of stuff going on it's it's massive it's special you know there'll be there'll be a photo of some
01:33:34
or obviously the video footage of them shaking hands with me but I you know I've never seen it and then then after
01:33:41
that oh oh yeah so the the Suzie thing the there's a some food poon food poisoning thing um before the Rugby
01:33:48
World Cup final you didn't you didn't get sick right no I got managed toid um
01:33:53
I was pretty loose and skim things and uh um had uh obviously diarrhea to the early hours in the morning so I didn't
01:34:02
have great sleep on Thursday night but sort of by Friday I was eating and um and not feeling too bad but guys like
01:34:11
Jeff wison and a few other boys were um really sick still you know so whatever went through in the food definitely went
01:34:18
through um whether it was Suzie was there a suie there I don't know but it's
01:34:24
one of those fabulous parts of New Zealand sporting folklore Now isn't it it's great yeah I mean I none of the
01:34:30
boys um admit to sickness being the reason why we lost that game just just wouldn't um but it was definitely a
01:34:37
factor um and it was a m a massive like that like I said that World Cup was absolutely unique and there
01:34:48
never be one like it again and I think at that stage so that was only the um third ever world cup so there was 87 in
01:34:55
New Zealand which we won 91 and then 95 so I think at that stage we probably thought it was our right to win every
01:35:02
sort of World Cup yeah look I also think that that team you know like then that's
01:35:06
why 96 is so special because effectively was that team that went into 96 and then
01:35:12
with bar a few extras um and Ubbi and stuff like that that went over there and won its first ever uh tour actually got
01:35:24
um even a put out about there that's how special that was what were you call the
01:35:29
incomparables no what was the something like that yeah I I can't remember people
01:35:34
know these things I never know these things yeah but did you Kelly here a couple of weeks ago we were we were
01:35:39
talking about that and he sort of didn't realize the significance of it at the
01:35:42
time yeah um and he talked about how um after winning the the you know the Clean
01:35:47
Sweep series he saw some of the old um EXO blacks like I think Don Clark he mentioned like balling his eyes out and
01:35:52
he sort of do didn't really understand the significance of it they was so great
01:35:56
for me they were so pumped on it you know tree BJ lore Brian Williams you know the the list goes on at some point
01:36:07
they all shook your hand and um and got a little emotional about it and again like Christian said I wasn't I didn't
01:36:16
notice it I just over there playing bloody some games you know trying to work out how I could go for a surf and
01:36:21
JB you know like um it it it was and I I think it's I reckon it took even as long
01:36:30
as 10 years before I start to understand the reality of it because I mean I've
01:36:35
been going to South Africa um since I was 21 you know with uh Super 8 Super 10 and super 12 so you knew and understood
01:36:45
what the place was like and then numerous um you know um games here but I hadn't played
01:36:54
against South Africa other than that World Cup final you know in in a tour situation because they're the super
01:37:01
super generous people to a fault but I think it's all part of a ploy to make
01:37:05
sure you're eating too much meat weigh you down you know just that whole game and and the um then the um
01:37:13
the 99 World Cup um oh that was the one yeah you got knocked out by France and there was that massive backlash back
01:37:20
home yeah um what was that like for you at the time could you could you feel the yeah you did but I I never got any
01:37:29
of it myself personally um you know I never had any anyone say hey man you you're crap
01:37:39
and whatnot or anything like that um it they were all people in New Zealand you know they
01:37:48
knew that you know I always try to do my best by and when I look at that team like I always felt like we
01:37:56
were a team of absolute uh Superstars you know like you go through the list of the backline you go through
01:38:06
the list and the Fords but I felt we were team of individuals not a team you know always felt there um you know we a
01:38:17
team of stars rather than a star team is the same goes yeah yeah so you know when
01:38:23
I remember saying at a huddle when the things started to go a little bit Pier I say hey let's not panic let's just stay
01:38:30
in the system play for each other make our tackles and it'll all happen but everybody started just going off on
01:38:39
tangents trying to score tries themselves and panicking yeah it was definitely Panic it was definitely panic
01:38:45
and it wasn't it never needed to be a panic movement yes they changed the momentum of the game but we just needed
01:38:51
to hold on the ball and build phases and and stuff and but the Panic had already
01:38:56
started you know guys were going off on doing their own thing and on a different
01:39:01
tangent you seem seem to have you know quite a good um you grasp on what's important and what's not and a good sort
01:39:07
of balance and perspective on life so how long does something like that haunt you for you manage to like draw a line
01:39:14
on the sand at the end of the season and go into 2000 or does it sort of plan on
01:39:17
your mind a bit for years afterwards or what oh look I think I think the thing that annoys me is that um I went to two
01:39:24
World Cups and never never had a a chew at the the golden cup and um that's probably the only thing but
01:39:34
nah it's done it's dusted you know like you got to leave stuff behind you
01:39:39
know and I think um if you're not leaving that stuff behind and you know I play enough Mind Games as a as a 53y old
01:39:48
with certain things I don't need that [ __ ] for me so don't try and put it back
01:39:53
call me mate take it you have it well just take some space hey you just don't need it how are you you've
01:40:00
been so generous with your time it's been an hour 40 how are you doing for time are I'm all right um right all
01:40:05
right geez well there's so much of the like the Josh corfield story that we haven't even talked about like winning
01:40:10
Treasure Island twice and um I've done lots of crazy stuff and I've it's been a hell of a life yeah
01:40:17
I've I've um kind of say to people you know like well had the check out tomorrow and I don't want to but you
01:40:25
know at least i' I've fed a fair bit of the bucket and um you know I've had some
01:40:32
really amazing moments you know I enjoyed facets of uh of um Treasure Island and I hated facets of Treasure
01:40:40
Island um the cool thing I think about the first one is um getting to know everybody in that in that crew I love
01:40:47
that part you know we were sitting around a b bonfire telling stories um talking like this um
01:40:53
uh with very little food and um whatever was stolen and um you know and and and I
01:41:02
I think that was kind of special I I never lik the um way stuff could change to where I've always been sort of pretty
01:41:09
honest about stuff you know or the manipulation aspect yeah I never liked that I never liked that and and didn't
01:41:15
like playing it and so especially when I'm um which is the game full fold now
01:41:21
when I played it as an older player I just definitely couldn't do that um yeah it's it's it's I don't know and
01:41:32
then Dancing with Stars was awesome like I you know me and Braun um we we did a bit of post that but then my ankles just
01:41:41
started to become a real posle yeah how did how did you and um yeah Broman your your wife who is um the owner of Tony
01:41:48
and Guy yeah um she's one of the and she she's like cut hair for like Aussie was
01:41:53
born and yeah yeah she she's a legend in herself how how did you guys metet was
01:41:57
she familiar with who you were look I kind of knew her through um Warren Alcock uh he she's the identical twin of
01:42:07
Warren's wife and so but that was just like pre everything um just knew her um
01:42:15
but the I guess the the first time I started really chat with her was when um I came back from my overseas trip I've
01:42:24
been to the UK and everything like that came back and um I had long hair and it was starting to dread up and um I had it
01:42:32
in a a man bun and um I had to do something in dened for New Zealand Rugby and they
01:42:39
asked me to come along and be with tree and everything like that and tree was there and there but it seemed like tree
01:42:44
was kind of avoiding me I kept trying to catch his eye and everything like anyway
01:42:48
so I finally rocked up to him and I says I says Hey tree um he you G and he looked at me like really strangely and I
01:42:56
thought he didn't recognize me I says it's Josh keld and he goes I know you a
01:43:00
[ __ ] are don't know about the [ __ ] [Laughter] haircut and I was mortified mortified I I um literally
01:43:11
next time um obviously Roman cut hair and she she said if I ever wanted a haircut next time I was in Oakland which
01:43:19
was ironically the following week went up and cut my hair and um uh yeah everything started
01:43:27
to um all we next I wasn't went get together then either it was it was about
01:43:33
that started you know more chat more talk and stuff like that so like a slow burn it was a real slow burn like um and
01:43:43
then so I no I know probably 12 years or whatever um and then came up doing some
01:43:50
stuff in Oakland and just keep bumping into each other and stuff you know like different events like nothing to do with
01:43:57
either of us just and not organized not planned and it just kind of happen yeah ergonomically or whatever they say it is
01:44:05
and are are you yeah are you are you sort of a laner or are you like a people person because it's you've spent all
01:44:12
this all this um part of your career in like a team sport environment where you're surrounded by others but then
01:44:17
yeah when you retire from sport you do this like motorcycle Journey around America and around South America so and
01:44:23
and you like surfing as well yeah I I like my own company yeah and I like sitting out in the water and and if no
01:44:28
one talks to me I'm happy um but if someone has a chat about something I'm
01:44:33
okay with that too and you know like I I can't go anywhere without sitting down
01:44:38
and having you know selfies and chats and and that's just part of the life but
01:44:44
I definitely don't mind my own company and and I'm happy in that person um so
01:44:49
yes you could argue I'm a bit of a loner um but but I also like being around my
01:44:54
friends and having the chats and catching up you know like it's been a couple of reunions um organized with the
01:45:00
rugby boys and we hardly ever talk you know some of the boys do some of the boys do but oh my goodness when you're
01:45:06
back in amongst it's like nothing's changed you know and you're you're that
01:45:10
same dude with your same job within the team and uh and it all just kicks off like nothing's change so and I enjoy
01:45:18
that you know it's been great um but no I'm I'm super com in my own space and
01:45:25
happy doing my own thing and but um I I think it's just happened just the way stuff sort of
01:45:33
happens you know um kind of lucky that way yeah and your mental health how how's that been you you've been through
01:45:39
some stuff he so you've got um yeah bran there was a story on woman's weekly
01:45:43
where she talked about her endometriosis and she was crying several times a day for years and um then there was your sun
01:45:49
born with um you know cereal py yeah um yeah I mean one thing I've learned from
01:45:54
doing this podcast no one no one gets to the privilege of making it to their 50s
01:45:58
without going through some adversity yeah well I've always been good at comp
01:46:02
compartmentalization to to a fold apparently I remember um John Hart gave us the opportunity to have um talk to a
01:46:11
uh you know Sports psychiatrist and stuff like that and she came out well you clearly are good at
01:46:19
compartmentalization I said well what's that he said well you box stuff far put
01:46:24
it over there but I don't know if you address it when I well it's if it's
01:46:28
boxed up and it's over there then it's not bothering me is isn't that a good
01:46:33
thing um but uh yeah I don't know like I'm I I've really always struggled to
01:46:40
understand what what what um uh you know mental health is for people and and like and you're telling
01:46:48
me um what that is and I I don't get it I just don't get it um you know I just I don't understand it
01:46:57
like if I'm if I'm grumpy and or I'm not feeling it or whatever I just can't do
01:47:03
something I love and it'll it'll drag me out of whatever that is so I guess I've had to learn how to be
01:47:13
receptive to it you know and um be there for my mates or or um you know ask the question and um
01:47:23
you know how are you and and then sometimes just be in air and so and also maybe no not not when to try and problem
01:47:29
fix because I am a problem fixer I think I like try and help I think a lot of us
01:47:34
guys are yeah um but sometimes you don't actually and that I've learned that
01:47:39
probably through Brahman you know she doesn't want the help she just wants to
01:47:42
be able to tell me what's why she's feeling the way she's feeling you know
01:47:46
she's gone through some U stuff that's been driven through you know um I guess
01:47:52
the hormone side of things uh you know like always being out of balance through the you know Lecky G and then the inury
01:48:01
mosis um impacting on all of that as well and you know scarred up um uh ovarian tubes and you know all
01:48:11
that sort of stuff Olympian tubes and um so all all of that uh stuff I guess you know you get to understand of how
01:48:21
you fit into the picture but oh man it's so complex it's so difficult so but I do think if you can be an air
01:48:31
and and if you think you've got a a way to help you know you just say you know
01:48:36
you just say that can you know like you just I I don't know what the answer is
01:48:42
I'm not not great at it but there must have been like a challenging time for
01:48:46
you because you especially being a fixer and being um a relatively uncomplicated
01:48:50
Guy having this some person that you love that's going through medical stuff
01:48:54
and crying frequently every day like oh she wasn't crying from me all the time
01:48:58
you know like every time I cry Josh throws me a jersey and tell yeah no no like I I
01:49:09
look you just I I think I've learned to listen a lot more you know and and even
01:49:14
with the boys you know there's nothing wrong with a high gay you know or just
01:49:19
put your arm around someone that can even that's just enough do real I really really think there's um
01:49:26
you know one of the boys jokes about all the negative ions that you get inside of
01:49:31
a barrel when you're surfing you know and that's what the sea offers up evens
01:49:35
everything out and um and you know I reckon there's some truth to that so you
01:49:41
know you know that bodily contact that just evens all the all the energies out you know I
01:49:48
really do think we we are Just Energy we are just creatures of energy and um some
01:49:54
people um suck suck other people's energy 100% and some people um offer it up freely and some people are really
01:50:03
healing and some people so I just feel that that's you know um sometimes it just gets around trying to be a
01:50:11
partnership in in in a group and and that'll do the job you know we all we all rally around friends when they get
01:50:18
really sick so um but we probably wait too long to do that do you feel like as you're getting
01:50:26
older you're getting better at like showing some vulnerability and you know talking about some niggly things I'm
01:50:32
just not embarrassed anymore you know like I just don't care um think that's
01:50:37
that's that's another pleasant surprise that comes with AJ oh well I mean also
01:50:42
just no what I learned obviously um working with Crowd Goes Wild you know when you're meeting all these amazing
01:50:48
athletes I love that's what I love most about working for that show and and they're all from different networks and
01:50:54
walks of life and what they do and how they do it and um but they all do it differently and
01:51:04
and and it's kind of crazy but so sometimes to get the fun or have the joke or cuz I mean that's the gag with
01:51:12
cgw is that we we have a laugh and there's a gag or there something going on it's taking the piss out of yourself
01:51:19
like and and people will say oh that was really funny you know that you're walking around your Speedos and ra or
01:51:26
whatever you know and um whereas my Ms she go she doesn't see the humor in it
01:51:31
why are you taking the piss out of yourself you know like you're not like that and I'm going well it doesn't worry
01:51:37
me you know I've got so used to it you know or one of one of the crew um taking
01:51:43
the piss out of you and it and and for someone who didn't know that we're
01:51:47
friends that would sound might sound a little bit oh that's not quite right but
01:51:52
um it's okay doesn't really matter yeah if it comes from a good place in your
01:51:57
relationship with that person you know what you can get away with whether it's
01:52:01
being mean or not um what about regrets you got any regrets yeah uh I regret um I regret having the injury when I had
01:52:14
the injury I don't mind that I had it but I just never felt I was as good as I
01:52:20
was that first year I just didn't have the this I just didn't have anything you
01:52:25
know like I was 30% what I was when I started like instantly um and you know maybe I could
01:52:32
rehab better and that would have been fine but I just didn't have that but you
01:52:36
just didn't have the tools or the information available the time did you but that's that's rugby wise that's
01:52:40
probably only your regret um there's heaps of regrets I've made saying the
01:52:44
wrong thing at the wrong time cross cross lots of things might be funny or whatever and it's come out with a big
01:52:51
lead balloon um oh but stuff that the the other person would remember or like saying hey
01:52:57
bro to ta's Mom yeah no one no one remembers that stuff apart from yourself I know no but yeah you know
01:53:06
like yeah there's there's been moment I don't need to say the all okay and last one are are you proud
01:53:14
of yourself a tricky question for New Zealand is yeah um yeah I'm proud of myself of the way
01:53:23
I've applied stuff took myself to stuff yeah am I proud that I'm all black and and stuff
01:53:32
like that for sure like you know like that was that was something I wanted to do and it was a I never wanted to be an
01:53:37
all black initially you know it wasn't until I started playing at that top level and playing against my peers who
01:53:44
were all blacks that I went oh actually maybe this is something I could just consider you know
01:53:50
um but I think you know I I think the thing that I'm most proud about is um that I'm open to trying
01:54:04
stuff you know or or just being able to smile at how inadequate I am it's different things you know but I'm giving
01:54:13
it a a good work um cuz I I I I do think that um young people today really struggle with
01:54:24
um putting themselves out there and um and having a go whether it's just in front of their friends or in front of
01:54:35
the national television or whatever but they they're reluctant to to have a go
01:54:41
but I think you know I've always thought oh yeah doesn't matter we just have it go so I
01:54:50
think yeah I'm proud of the fact that I've I've and but again maybe that's mom
01:54:55
and dad you know we haven't even talked about that part of my life and you know
01:54:59
Mom and Dad are just um they were hippies they were like the good life but they they've created me as you know um
01:55:08
get me a really centered and and um you know balanced person I think most of the time when I'm not unhinged which
01:55:20
isn't too regular yeah yeah we we didn't get into that like there's there's
01:55:24
definitely elements of you and your old man like didn't he like chop a toe off
01:55:27
at work once and then just carry on working till the end of the day that was always the joke he you know like but you
01:55:32
know he you know if you want a a tough Man story put Chainsaw for his leg and then went right we not we not packed up
01:55:41
the family he he I remember him opening it up and looking at it and then and going oh that's not too good and then
01:55:48
closing it up and then just ripping his T-shirt off his own back and shoving it in there and then tiing it on is and
01:55:56
then loading it loading everybody up and we're like an hour and a half drive from
01:56:01
the hospital and then loading the whole family and driving us to the hospital and uh um and and then um and then
01:56:11
admitting himself to hospital and mom taking us home that's that was loose that was my dad and like and all the
01:56:18
boys would have different versions of stories of how tough T and hard he was you know and he had these crazy hands
01:56:26
you know like um just workers hands that were nil and black and full of Gunk you
01:56:33
know he he hadn't uh done any work for a week and he'd eat his sandwich and All
01:56:38
His Hands would end up under sandwich I'm just think but you know was that I'm trying to describe the hands
01:56:46
you know and and and and and he was loud and he was abbrasive and he was but man
01:56:52
he he was like the yappy dog that was going to protect everybody you know and he was he played dad to heaps of kids um
01:57:03
through both my brother uh uh and I's rugby careers you know like loading the
01:57:09
kids up on the back of the truck it was awesome I I can't talk much longer though bro because I have to go to work
01:57:17
we yeah we got to wrap up uh we didn't even get to talk about your um brutal
01:57:20
testical injury that'll have to wait oh that's that's a good story man but you
01:57:25
never you never know I can um I can I can I can irritate that at another time but M this has beeny thing the key thing
01:57:33
that I would want to do is just you know and especially with the tenis stuff is just to finish it's just to
01:57:40
say dudes get them around your mates have the conversation encourage each other to do the checks because so much
01:57:48
of the stuff can be avoided cuz too many of the boys check out way too early you
01:57:54
know unnecessarily so hey um mate this has been great um I'm proud of you and
01:57:59
um thank you so much for being so generous with your time today Josh cornfeld thanks man cheers