00:00:00
Yeah, it was tough uh finishing up at Wales. Results and performances weren't
00:00:03
good enough and I understand that and there was just a huge amount of negativity out there and I kind of woke
00:00:08
up one day went actually I don't need this in my life. Probably a lot of people don't realize is that the success
00:00:13
that we had over a period and we're there we knew we were papering over the cracks that were that were there and
00:00:19
when we said when the dam bursts which it has it's going to take a while to fix
00:00:23
it up. I have this romantic view of the Lions. I see the Lions as being an opportunity to celebrate the game.
00:00:29
Probably 217 221 was the first time I kind of went winning. It was more important than anything else.
00:00:36
>> Do you do you load the media? >> It's one organization that I'd never
00:00:39
deal with again. >> Can you say what organization or no? >> New Zealand Hero.
00:00:42
>> Oh, right. On the Hero. Yeah. So, what's the story about that? What's the whole
00:00:45
backstory with the clown nose? The clown thing. What's the closest you've you've
00:00:49
come to being involved with the All Blacks? Have there been like phone calls or people reaching out over the years?
00:00:53
Oh, I've had um >> Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is the center of performance. Whenever
00:01:01
there's a top performance in New Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:01:04
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that for days. That's the boys who got the
00:01:08
Holland one in To. >> He did it again. Hey Finn, how's the performance going?
00:01:14
>> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In here, you'll find our top performers
00:01:19
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here, Finn. Maximize, generate, putting performance
00:01:26
first. >> Warren Gatland, welcome to my podcast. >> Thanks, Dom. >> Mate, it's great to have you here. This
00:01:36
was um sort of liazed um through through your daughter. >> Yeah, it was. I think you messaged her
00:01:43
and then and then she passed the message on to me and I said, "Yeah, I said,
00:01:48
"Yeah, look, get him to contact me and uh I'll I'll see what happens." From
00:01:52
what I can gather, this is your very first NZ podcast. >> Probably. Yeah. Yeah. I've done a few of
00:01:58
them. A lot of them overseas, but uh not really in in New Zealand. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, it's an honor to have you
00:02:03
here. One of the one of the greats of New Zealand rugby, a great Mulu man and a coaching great. Yeah. Um, how does
00:02:09
life look for you this year? >> Uh, I'm loving life at the moment. Really enjoying things. So, yeah, it was
00:02:16
tough uh finishing up at Wales. Um but I'm I I kind of made the right decision
00:02:22
for myself. Um kind of looked at it there was um it was as a challenge and you know results and
00:02:30
performances weren't good enough and I understand that uh and there was just a
00:02:35
huge amount of negativity out there and I kind of woke up one day went actually I don't need this in my life. M
00:02:40
>> uh I've been through a lot, been successful. Um and I felt was you know
00:02:44
it was it was a challenge. So kind of said um you know that's enough for me for the moment and I will have a break
00:02:51
and there's a few other things on the horizon and few other opportunities but
00:02:56
just really enjoyed uh like having that time and and myself and family had a bit
00:03:02
of time in Spain and Portugal and and France and then we come back just come back from Fiji for a few week a few
00:03:07
weeks and uh yeah and just um just going with the flow. >> Yeah. on your your daughter's Instagram.
00:03:15
I saw some uh footage from Dinerell of you diving into the pool. It's not a bad
00:03:18
dive for a man in his 60s. >> Yeah. Uh yeah, just having we went out to one of the islands got um Paradise
00:03:27
Cove which was we flew out there which was beautiful and then in into Sopel in Denal and
00:03:34
uh my son and um his girlfriend were there and my daughter and son-in-law and two grandkids. Yeah, we had a great
00:03:41
time. It was it was really good to have some some quality family time. >> Yeah. Yeah. You seem real family
00:03:45
ccentric. So there's your wife Trudy who you've been with for um decades now. And
00:03:49
it's her birthday today by the way. >> Yeah. She's uh she she turns the same
00:03:52
age as me today. So only for a couple of weeks for my birthday in a couple of weeks. So
00:03:56
>> and and two adult kids um Gabby and Brin. And uh yeah, it was Gabby who who
00:04:00
set this up. Um yeah. Uh I read about Gabby. There was a bet that you guys had during the 2017
00:04:08
Lions tour. It wasn't so much a bet. Uh I can remember um after the second test, so the the test
00:04:18
series was one all and the Lions uh it was the second time I've been involved and obviously coming to
00:04:27
New Zealand and playing the All Blacks at home. Two test matches at Eden Park. Uh obviously with a record
00:04:36
has been fairly fantastic for the All Blacks. Um the people in charge of the Lions I
00:04:43
suppose never thought that we had any chance of winning a series. So they offered me a huge bonus for uh winning a
00:04:52
Lion series in New Zealand. But um stupidly I never uh uh sort of uh negotiated for a drawn
00:05:02
series. I remember on the Friday night before the third test, uh saying to Gabby, I said, "Gabs, um if we win
00:05:11
tomorrow, uh you can go shopping on Sunday and buy whatever you want." So, she was pretty excited about about that.
00:05:17
And obviously, we we drew the third test and I get a text from her about 15 20 minutes later saying, "Dad, are we still
00:05:24
going shopping tomorrow?" So, you know, you can understand young uh teenage
00:05:28
girls or young young women in in terms of um you know, what their priorities are.
00:05:33
>> Well, I I asked her what she would have bought um if you handed over the card.
00:05:37
Yeah. By the way, 15 all draw in that third game. E Lions versus Blacks. Um she said I would have bought myself a
00:05:42
nice new wardrobe. Well, this is going to make me sound like a brat. >> So, I don't know how extensive the
00:05:48
wardrobe is. She's >> talking she's got she's um uh two lucky I got two great kids. They they are
00:05:55
>> fantastic. They've done well. Um and the most important thing is they're good
00:06:00
people and um that's what I like and the relationship that Gabby and Brenn have
00:06:04
is has been amazing just how incredibly close they are. So you know look we're
00:06:09
very very lucky as as parents in terms of uh the two kids we have. And Brun on Instagram, there's like a series of
00:06:16
videos of um like you having a like an old man nap in the middle of the day and he he sneaks up and kisses you on the on
00:06:22
the mouth. >> Oh, >> how many times does he get you? >> He's a recidivist.
00:06:27
>> Oh, I know. He's a he loves scaring people, you know. So, that's kind of one
00:06:31
of his things, you know, hiding behind covers. He's got some mates who do that
00:06:35
sort of thing. I remember driving through the tunnels at um on a bike ride one day at why he and so he's biked
00:06:40
ahead and it's pitch black and he's hidden in one of the corners and come
00:06:45
out and scared me and stuff. So he loves doing a bit of that sort of stuff and and and catching me out. So uh yeah,
00:06:51
it's probably probably about time I got him back I think. >> Oh 100%. Yeah, it's um yeah what it's
00:06:57
like 10 nil at the moment I think to him according to Instagram. Um and what is the big match philosophy in the Gatland
00:07:04
household? The big much. Oh. Um, >> that's an interesting one. Um, so if we say just each, you know, how
00:07:14
much it's big much and it means uh how much do I love you? And it's big much.
00:07:21
So I really started with Brin and used to um read, you know, um I said, "How
00:07:28
much do I love you for big hair?" The the rabbit story, the big hair story. So
00:07:34
it goes on, you know, just, you know, how much I love you to to the gate and back and to the park and back and up to
00:07:39
the road. I I can't remember the story. So I used to get to the end of it and,
00:07:43
you know, they used to finish off I loved you to the moon and back and everyone's sort of heard that and then
00:07:47
so I'd finish off that and Brin say well I love you the sun back and then I'd go
00:07:52
I loved you the stars and back and then I love you the stars back hundred times then a thousand times then million
00:07:58
times. So this would this would go on and on. He loved the story and one day I said to him, um, "Bren, I love you big
00:08:04
much and there's nothing bigger than that." And he went, "Oh, okay." So he
00:08:08
never asked me again. So, so it kind of just became a saying in the family say just say how much and it's sort of kind
00:08:14
of like big much. And I don't know if you ever saw me in games. Sometimes they'd be in you put your hands out
00:08:19
because that's what the the hair does and you reach out as far as you can and
00:08:23
that sort of like symbolizes what big match and a lot of times in games seen the family and Brin does it as well. you
00:08:30
see u family up in in the stands and you just might do that and just you know we
00:08:34
know exactly what we're saying to each other so you know just how important each other is and and how important our
00:08:40
relationship is. >> It's so cool something you still say and do to this day.
00:08:45
>> Yeah. My granddaughter so I'd say she's she's three and a half. She'll be Oh,
00:08:49
she'll be four in October. So if I say to her how much she'll go big much.
00:08:52
Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's kind of we we've got a we've got a a few of those
00:08:59
sort of little saying, you know, I'd say my daughter, um, she got me some some
00:09:05
shirts for for Christmas last year. One's uh called uh u my second favorite because I, you know, I'd say to all the
00:09:16
kids all the time, "Oh, you're my second favorite or you're my second favorite.
00:09:18
Who's your first?" And I'd just say, "I don't know." you know, so that that came
00:09:22
a bit of a bit of a joke. And uh uh another shirt she she got made for me was any chance. And people So when we
00:09:30
say to each other in the family, so is there any chance? We know exactly what we're saying because I coached a guy in
00:09:38
in Wasps called Fraser Waters and came from very posh family from family from Jersey and uh well educated. He wasn't
00:09:47
playing rugby for the money. He didn't need the didn't need the money. He was
00:09:51
playing because he loved the game and he was such a competitor. And when you get
00:09:57
those sort of play, they're gold dust. They're absolutely gold in terms of um
00:10:01
the UK because it's not it's not trying to think about your future because they
00:10:06
want they're competitive and want to win. And we were doing something one day
00:10:10
and I and the boys used to take the mickey out of him and they used to call him faqua very posh you know Fraser
00:10:17
waters you know play had a few caps for England Fqua you know so one day Fraser said excuse me is there any chance and I
00:10:24
went what is there any chance and I and I went what do you mean is there any chance and he I said what does that mean
00:10:31
he said that's just a polite way of saying would you hurry the [ __ ] up excuse my excuse my language.
00:10:40
So anytime we're with the family and one of us and no one knows you're saying you
00:10:45
say is any chance and the others know exactly what they're saying. So we got a
00:10:49
few few little quirky things like that with within the family a big much and any chance and you know you're my second
00:10:56
favorite and a few other things there. >> It's really cool. It's like your own
00:10:59
little sort of language or >> Yeah, I suppose. Yeah, I suppose when you, you know, when you're away from
00:11:04
home so much and you're in a lot of different people's companies, you know,
00:11:08
you need a few things to keep you entertained, but also uh as a reminder to tell someone to hurry up if they need
00:11:14
to to get on with it as well. >> Oh, how good's that? And what about Trudy and yourself? When you guys met at
00:11:20
Teachers College? >> Met at Teachers College. >> What age? >> Uh was our third year at Teachers
00:11:26
College. So, uh 20ish 20. Yeah. 21, I think. Yeah. Um, >> what were you like? Were you a rugby
00:11:32
head at the time? >> Yeah, I was I was I had I hadn't played I think that year I sat on the bench at
00:11:38
the end of the year for White Cat. It was it was the we knew who each other were um cuz we were in the same year,
00:11:44
but we hadn't really connected or or spoken and you you'd probably get kicked out of
00:11:50
doing this today, but it was the first day of the semester or the term of of the year and she was standing in front
00:11:58
of me looking at the notice board and looking at the schedule and what was going on and I came behind, I knew who
00:12:02
she was and I I pinched her backside and she turned around and smiled and then uh
00:12:08
kind of we connected after that. And I was thinking this kind of not the thing you do these in canceled for that.
00:12:14
>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Kicked out and banned and forever, but um yeah, so
00:12:21
>> that was in 85. So yeah, sort of 40 years really. Yeah. >> Wow. >> Yeah,
00:12:26
>> that's an amazing uh Yeah, amazing time frame. And and it seems like you still
00:12:30
really like each other's company. Yeah, I think um we've been uh done a lot of traveling. You know, we've
00:12:40
lived in a number of countries and with Ireland and and obviously in London and and uh time at Wasps and Wales and then
00:12:48
back back home. Uh I don't know how many how many houses we've lived in over the
00:12:53
years. And I think in all that time, I think I've only been there for about two
00:12:57
of the shifts, but she's done mo she's done most of them. Yeah. So, yeah, it's
00:13:02
uh it it's worked. I mean, we went to Ireland when the the kids were very young. Um BR hadn't really learned
00:13:12
to to speak at that time. So, um they both picked up Irish accents and then we sort of six years living in Ireland. We
00:13:20
moved back to um or we moved to London and uh Brinn kept his Irish accent till he was sort of 12 or 13. And then Gabby
00:13:27
picked up an English accent. And I remember Trudy coming home one day. She taken the kids out shopping and stuff
00:13:32
and um she was having a coffee and sitting down. The kids were having something to eat and drink and woman in
00:13:38
the table next door said, "Excuse me, I don't mean to be rude, but how does it
00:13:43
work that you have a son who has an Irish accent, a daughter's got an English accent, you've got a New Zealand
00:13:47
accent. How does that kind of work?" So um but after the time at was we came
00:13:52
back um kids were kind of ready getting Gabby was getting ready for high school and and Bren as well and then I I did
00:14:01
the whales sing and um sort of travel back and forwards between campaigns and they came over and yeah it kind of it
00:14:07
kind of worked. Um the thing about international rugby is that it's it's
00:14:11
full on in those periods but you do get a little bit of respite in terms of a break in between campaigns. How hard has
00:14:18
your career been on um Trudy and the kids? >> How has >> How hard has it been?
00:14:24
>> Has it been hard on them or >> I think it's been challenging. We you
00:14:27
know we've made sacrifices um being apart and stuff and >> missing sort of um you know important
00:14:35
events and things but it's given us that opportunity. It's given us um security
00:14:41
and and and you know had that chance to be able to set ourselves up financially and
00:14:46
probably the f for the future of my family and stuff and and I kind of um and that that for me was kind of has
00:14:54
been or was a motivating factor you know sort of coming from I wouldn't say a
00:14:59
privileged upbringing and you know pretty tough times and so to have those opportunities uh given to you in terms
00:15:06
of playing rugby when the game professional get involved and coaching and and being able to earn a a good
00:15:12
living. Yeah, it's it's challenging because there's a lot of um there can be criticism and negativity
00:15:19
out there and those are kind of you get to sort of put up with that and um almost sometimes it I think times are
00:15:28
change where it's kind of almost like water off a duck's back in terms of a
00:15:32
lot of the stuff that's I'm not on social media. um a couple of little accounts where the
00:15:38
family family family know about which is if we need to contact each other. So um
00:15:43
and I think that helps that you know I don't you always hear about the stuff
00:15:47
that's going on and and you know sort of what people are saying if there's
00:15:52
negativity but I just I' definitely try and stay away from it. >> You there was a a post Gabby did um some
00:15:58
ex players were coming at you and she had to go on social media. Um, so obviously like it it hurt her deeply
00:16:05
like seeing the old man >> um having a having a rough go. Like when that happens to you say Gabby don't even
00:16:10
get involved or does it like make your heart burst with pride? Oh, I think I think the piece that she wrote was was
00:16:19
um when I saw that I thought it was pretty amazing. You know, it's kind of like she was
00:16:25
I could understand look there were some players in the media and they they had been a bit critical of um myself and
00:16:33
some of the performance and that's understandable. That's that was their
00:16:36
job and that's what they get paid for. But she kind of the point she was kind
00:16:40
of make was that you know if it have it hadn't been for the success of uh your
00:16:46
rugby careers in Wales and and that then you probably wouldn't be in those jobs
00:16:50
or in those positions or being asked to do those sorts of things and um and it's
00:16:56
like everything that sort of it's sensational and news for for a few minutes but the amount of responses that
00:17:03
she got from people in terms of and even the messages that I got from people saying, "Oh, you must be really proud of
00:17:10
>> your daughter and you know what she said." And I think she was pretty
00:17:12
eloquent in in terms of her response and and I suppose having a you know I haven't I didn't really say anything but
00:17:20
you know her wanting to have a bit of a crack back at them and and and protect her dad and uh because you know we are
00:17:26
in really an incredibly close family. >> Yeah. Oh, it's touching. It's really
00:17:30
nice. Yeah. Um, and yeah. So, so the the last week while you've been in Wales on
00:17:35
like on on your own, the family's back here. Um, yeah. How is bachelor life?
00:17:38
Did you pick up any bad habits? >> Have you found it hard like to go go back to living in a in a house with your
00:17:43
wife? >> Um, no. I think I've been good. So, yeah, I do most of the cooking and try
00:17:49
and help out around around home and stuff. So, um, yeah, I think, um, I've never minded my own company and
00:18:00
I've kind of been busier and so when you're back and you you're sort of
00:18:03
coaching, you are you are really busy. Probably the hardest I found Sundays the hardest day. It's kind of like it's
00:18:08
almost like >> it's your rest day and your family day and kind of um yeah, that was for me
00:18:14
sometimes being on my own on Sundays was the most challenging thing. But um like
00:18:20
I said when you're involved in campaigns and you know particularly rugby it's
00:18:25
it's almost 24/7. It's fully on for that sort of two month period or couple of
00:18:30
months and as um you know people involved in the the rugby championship will know exactly
00:18:38
what I'm talking about. Um but I say you do get that bit of respite in terms of a break you know in between
00:18:45
campaigns. M you'd imagine the homesickness is um pretty fierce when there's like a birthday or something
00:18:50
back home or maybe when you know you're getting a hammering over there and you're on a losing streak. That's when
00:18:55
you want your tribe around you. >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And uh the thing
00:19:00
was that um I know it's Father's Day um on on Sunday, but um I get uh I I never
00:19:09
I never seem to have Father's Day because it was a different time of the year and my wife seemed to get always
00:19:14
get two two Mother's Days, which is kind of a uh was a was a bit ironic. So um
00:19:20
yeah, I think when you miss birthday parties and um you know significant events and you know you miss a lot of
00:19:27
family functions and weddings and different but I it's not really indifferent to when
00:19:33
you were playing growing up. You know I I played a lot of cricket as a youngster
00:19:37
growing up so you know missed a lot of family stuff in there and those are kind of the sacrifices you make if you want
00:19:43
to be successful and you want to get to try and get to the top of your sport. M >> Well, you're in the country this year
00:19:49
for Father's Day. What What are you having to get for Father's Day? The Fuzzy book's pretty good, I believe.
00:19:52
>> Oh, apparently. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. I don't uh uh not sure what I'm
00:20:00
getting for Father's Day. Yeah. I spoke to my daughter. I think she's she was
00:20:03
talking about getting me some sunglasses or something like that. So, I think >> her and her son might go might go halves
00:20:09
in that. So, I'll have to wait and see. >> Yeah. I like hearing this family stuff.
00:20:13
It's really cool. It's really cool to see the side of you. And I've actually
00:20:15
got a card here. And I don't know if you want to talk about this marcher at all.
00:20:18
Um but this card's called Shauna. >> All right. Yeah. >> Yeah. Which is not something that's
00:20:22
widely known I guess about Warren Gatlin. You you talk about this in your book. >> Yeah.
00:20:26
>> Um Yeah. So who who's Shauna? >> So she was our first born. Um and she
00:20:33
unfortunately lived for about 4 months. U she was born in spobifida and we and times we even we had a couple of scans
00:20:39
and things just did not know. Um she was born in in Ireland in in Gway. Um and kind of um what happened then had a
00:20:49
really significant impact on me. Um what wasn't in the short term but was what I
00:20:56
thought about uh on my coaching career sort of later on. Um just the importance of you know we're all involved in a
00:21:04
sport that we love and we make a lot of commitment a lot of sacrifice. But I kind of went a bit further than that. So
00:21:11
any teams that I've been involved in, I've spoken about just um you know how
00:21:16
lucky we are and often you know people are are well paid and you get those opportunities but the most important
00:21:22
thing in your life is your family. And I kind of went if things are right at home
00:21:26
if um you've got support from your family then as a as a coach you get a much better product on the field. And
00:21:36
often a player comes to me and says, "Oh, my partner's got a scan. Uh, can I
00:21:41
miss training?" Yeah. Or something, you know, something's wrong with one of the
00:21:45
kids at home or um the misses, you know, there's some relationship issues and,
00:21:50
you know, they need to spend a bit of time together. I I've never had a problem with giving players some time or
00:21:57
missing some stuff because I know by doing that that um I get so much >> more in return from from those players
00:22:06
when I when I ask for um something from them. Um and kind of like so when I'd
00:22:14
we'd been in uh going backwards and forwards to Ireland for a few years. So I' we'd spend uh five or six months in
00:22:23
Ireland and I was sort of player coach there with a club called Goreians and I'd come back to New Zealand and pick up
00:22:29
a relief teaching job if um and lucky enough and play club rugby play for WA and hopefully get
00:22:37
selected for an all day tour at the end of the year and then stay on an island. The downside of that we had eight
00:22:42
winters in a row but um u so but when we were there um obviously you know Shauna was born and
00:22:51
we were this the club that I was involved with had been their whole goal was to get promoted to the all island
00:22:57
league and the first year I went there they weren't um in a position where they
00:23:02
could get promoted the next year um just missed out on promotion and we got promoted um that
00:23:10
third year or the third or fourth year. And when Shauna was born, we were right in the middle of the the playoffs for
00:23:18
promotion and they'd spent a significant amount of money having us over there um
00:23:24
playing paying for accommodation, giving us some expenses and and those things over over that period. And
00:23:31
um when Sean was born, they said to you you got to go home. and I just said, "Look, we're in the middle of um
00:23:38
playoffs, you know, the next few weeks are incredibly important." And they they
00:23:43
wouldn't have it. And so we we flew back to New Zealand. Um I I think I'd played the first game
00:23:51
where we drew and we'd been back in back in New Zealand for a few weeks and we
00:23:56
got things settled back home in terms of um having things um you know pretty calm
00:24:02
in terms of Shauna coming back home and I ran the club and I said was there's
00:24:06
another game. Do you want me to come back for the the playoff which was important having drawn the first game
00:24:13
and they said would you do that? So I I flew back to to Ireland. We played this game in Limmerch, won the game and I
00:24:20
flew back to New Zealand again. We we got promoted to the all league. So and I kind of felt and that that to me was a
00:24:29
massive lesson. They had made a massive sec a huge sacrifice in giving me something and it was easy for me to give
00:24:36
it back and I kind of knew, you know, you know the same with the players. You know,
00:24:42
people say, "Oh yeah, but what if they're missing training?" I so I treat
00:24:44
it like you know they're carrying an injury and they can't train and that
00:24:48
happens all the time and things and like I said you you kind of get things right
00:24:53
off the field as much as you possibly can and then hopefully you can get things right on the field.
00:24:58
>> What were those four months like? >> That they were challenging. Yeah. So um
00:25:03
>> cuz you're quite young at the time late 20s maybe 30. >> Uh no it wasn't that. Uh
00:25:09
so Gabby was born when I was 30. So it's 30 years difference. So I think um 28 27
00:25:14
28. Yeah. Um it was tough you know sort of um I can remember um when she was born in hospital in in
00:25:26
Goreway and and I and I didn't realize but the obviously the the midwife and
00:25:30
the nurses and that and they started they were sort of crying with tears and stuff and sort of what was on and then
00:25:35
all of a sudden there was a bit of a um you know the the sort of everyone running around and stuff and and then we
00:25:44
got specialists involved and and I can remember talking to the specialists, you know, a few days later and saying, you
00:25:51
know, out of terms of spinobipida, you know, out of out of 10, how bad is she? He said, oh,
00:25:59
probably nine out of 10. And so, you imagine a a little um, you know, a little infant being born
00:26:06
with, you know, a significant sort of hole on on uh on on the sort of lower half of their back. And but the thing
00:26:14
for me is Trudy Trudy was amazing, you know, just before Shauna passed away that um
00:26:22
the the lesion over on her back had healed and they said, you know, with a lesion that size, there's a good chance
00:26:29
that um she'll get an infection and that that'll go to the brain and it it'll
00:26:34
probably probably end up sort of um killing her as well. But but that never happened. And I mean she was, you know,
00:26:41
Trudy was amazing. Um, but it was, you know, it was challenging afterwards as well because I'd kind of, we would go
00:26:49
and see the doctor every now and again. Um, I'd actually gone on a rugby trip to
00:26:57
Australia and um, sort of set her up and she passed away while I was over over in
00:27:05
Australia. So I sort of flew back. Um, and you know that was um that to that took me a number of years
00:27:15
to sort of get over that because you I wasn't when I was there and Trudy rang
00:27:19
me and there um and that was the sort of the days before mobile phones really sort of had come in and so you know I
00:27:28
was teaching back in New Zealand and sometimes I'd get um a phone call from the office say oh Trudy's run can you
00:27:35
give her a call back when and my heart would just start pounding you know, kind of like thinking, oh,
00:27:39
>> worst case. >> Yeah. Worst case something's happened to the kids, you know, and that and that um
00:27:43
yeah, so you don't realize sort of the impact that those sort of things have on
00:27:49
you, not short term, but long term, you know, and how long sometimes it takes a while to to recover from those things.
00:27:54
So yeah, it's it's um I often talk to the kids and go, you know, we talk about
00:28:00
Shauna a lot and say, you know, you you were here probably because of her because we wouldn't have had Gabby
00:28:07
quite, you know, as soon as we did after Shauna had passed away and then obviously having Brin. So, um, I kind of
00:28:15
look at it as a, you know, it was really challenging times, but we've ended up
00:28:20
with two amazing kids and and, you know, that's, you know, sometimes you you've
00:28:26
got to look at your the things that are difficult in your life and and but also try and transfer them into the
00:28:32
positives. >> Do you do you ever get over the grief or or does it just sort of sit with you
00:28:38
sort of permanently? Oh, I think that, you know, we always light a um sort of a candle um for a birthday in
00:28:48
January and January 17th and then and one of May as well, you know. Um and often
00:28:56
it's like everything. It's kind of it's always there, but and you know people say, you know, time
00:29:04
is a great healer and but you you never forget it. It's your own personal thing
00:29:09
that um as a family um you're conscious of and and you go through and you know
00:29:16
it's something that Trudy and I always um find significant and remember um uh and you know had a had a massive
00:29:25
impact um you know both challenging but in a way positively positively in in our
00:29:33
lives as well. M >> I wonder if in a way it it changed or shaped the way that you raise um Gabby
00:29:38
and Brun and that you know what's on the line and what you can lose and just you
00:29:44
know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Um you I suppose that you know you say
00:29:54
something and things that I'd said to my kids that you know I met I you know said
00:29:58
to Gabby and Bren I said I don't care where you are in the world what what's
00:30:03
happened you know if you get yourself in trouble whatever you get on the phone you ring me and I'll be there
00:30:08
>> and I kind of said and I meant it but they they know that I meant that as well
00:30:12
you know in terms of they know how um important they uh to to myself and Trudy as a family uh how close we are and you
00:30:24
know just said um you even even now you see Bin you know might not see each other we're going we're going to Japan
00:30:30
for Christmas which I really looking forward to and the first thing you know give him a hug and maybe a kiss and how
00:30:35
much and he'll say big much you know so um and those things are pretty cool >> that's a you're you're a kissing couple
00:30:42
a kissing family >> um yeah I think a hugging family Yeah. Yeah. >> It's cool. It's cool.
00:30:48
>> Oh, it's it's amazing. And um uh you know I can I can I can never
00:30:56
remember uh I know my dad was really proud of me but I can never remember my dad saying to me love me or or hugging
00:31:02
me you know and even when we got old you know we shook hands and stuff and when we greeted each other but um
00:31:09
I think the thing is that uh it was kind of like different and and probably the fact that um you know I had
00:31:18
been I didn't worry what other people thought and had been successful. It gives you kind of a little bit more of a
00:31:23
license to be able to do things. And I can remember um when Brim was at school at Hamilton Boys and um our food bowl
00:31:31
used to be absolutely massive every week cuz he'd have all his mates around and
00:31:36
we were close to town. We had a swimming pool and stuff and Trudy would be looking after them and you know and guys
00:31:41
like Tomati Martin who plays for the Warriors you know he just bowl in the front door and Bren him good mates and
00:31:48
you know we had so many people sort of staying and things and you I'd be there
00:31:52
coming home and Bren come out and I just give him a big hug in front of his mates
00:31:56
and it was kind of like you know those you're talking sort of um you know 2013
00:32:02
sort of 11 and there those days sort of in teenage boys soo you know, it's kind
00:32:07
of been seen as maybe not the thing to do, but >> when Bren and I were doing, they went,
00:32:12
"Oh, people sort of, oh, that's normal. That's pretty cool." >> And being able to show affection. And I
00:32:17
kind of thought it's a really trying to set an example to people, not being afraid to
00:32:23
>> to do those sort of things. the first day when he when he came into to the
00:32:27
Chiefs there, they were in the gym and I went and saw him and I just go and just
00:32:30
gave a big hug in front of all the players and it just, you know, it wasn't uh it was just something that was normal
00:32:37
for us, you know, and and and I think you're trying to you're trying to sort
00:32:41
of kind of, you know, you're not being stoic. There's nothing wrong with
00:32:44
showing emotion and um you know, particularly with family members and and I think, you know, like you said, you're
00:32:51
trying to set a good example for other people as well. >> That's cool. Yeah,
00:32:55
>> thanks so much for sharing all that family stuff, especially the the Shauna
00:32:58
stuff. I'm sure it's not not that easy to talk about. >> Yeah, it was, you know, definitely tough
00:33:02
at the time, but um I said, you know, time is a great healer, but >> you kind of, you know,
00:33:08
>> it never goes away anyway. >> You live with it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And the um the family trip to
00:33:13
Japan at Christmas, are are you doing some doornocking? Looking for some jobs? >> No, no, no. We're uh we were going to go
00:33:22
for a couple of weeks and then we said we can get there for three. I think we're going over on about the 12th of
00:33:27
>> December. We get to see um they they start just before Christmas, so I think
00:33:31
the 13th or something. So, >> get to see that game and then a game on the 20th and one on the 27th or 28th and
00:33:39
then fly back um get back just before um New Year's. So, um yeah, looking forward
00:33:46
to that. It's going to be bloody cold over there. It does get, you know, really extremes in weather. You know,
00:33:52
it's really, really hot in the summer and really, really cold in the winter.
00:33:55
So, um, but, you know, looking forward to spending a little bit of time with him, um, over there.
00:34:01
>> Great place to visit, especially with a with a bid a on every toilet. You go to
00:34:05
a toilet in Starbucks and there's a bidet there. >> Your butt's never been so clean.
00:34:09
>> I know. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Let's go back and talk about
00:34:12
some of the early years. Um, so I've got this photo here of a young um a young
00:34:18
Warren Gatland. How are you the same and how are you the man sitting in front of
00:34:22
me now? How is he the same? And how is he different to that kid there? >> Oh,
00:34:26
>> how old were you there? 15, 16? >> No, that was 15. I would have been 18,
00:34:30
17, 18. Um, oh, I I look I loved my sport. Um, and that's what drove me. I was
00:34:44
incredibly competitive as a as a kid. Um, and I don't think I don't think that's a
00:34:50
bad thing. I I always kind of challenge I think there was a period and a time where um with kids
00:34:59
growing up in New Zealand, you everything was about participation involved and there's nothing wrong with
00:35:03
that, but there are times where, you know, life is about competition. life is um you know things it's about winning
00:35:11
and losing at at times and and trying to be successful. So as growing up as a kid
00:35:15
you know I was always uh wanted to be on the winning team or wanting to do things. So um and I found
00:35:23
myself um you know if we were playing a game growing up and the score wasn't
00:35:30
being kept or a teacher would just saying I I lost interest you know I kind of and so
00:35:37
yeah I don't know where that came from but you know definitely very very competitive in anything that I did in
00:35:43
terms of sport and >> um >> and you know I was lucky enough from a very early age to to go and play for
00:35:52
teams that were pretty successful, you know, from even from the early age of five sort of, you
00:35:59
know, happened to play in club sides that were really successful and um playing Gwen Shield and Rolling Mills
00:36:06
and then sort of um through um secondary school and first of secondary schools and and that um
00:36:18
yeah and so Um, I was kind of driven and and I had, you know, a big appetite for at the time
00:36:28
wasn't just wasn't just rugby. I loved my cricket and kind of there was a
00:36:31
period where I was making a decision which way I was going to go. Was it going to be the rugby route or the or
00:36:36
the cricket route and um probably rugby the opportunities in rugby just came along just a little bit sooner than they
00:36:43
than they would have done in cricket. God, you're another one of those e like
00:36:46
a a Jordy Barrett or a Jeff Wilson or there's so many so many of you guys e that are like just fantastic at both
00:36:53
these games. >> Well, I think that in those days you were able to do both. You know, it's
00:36:58
very difficult for >> even for kids nowadays and you know the sort of the the environments to to play
00:37:05
um at a high level in both those sports and you still you still see some pretty talented kids in terms of
00:37:12
>> doing those things. But yeah, still still enjoy my cricket and watch my
00:37:15
cricket and and stuff. And >> still roll an arm over. Okay. >> Uh not anymore. No, no, not uh not not
00:37:23
really. But you know, still still do enjoy watching it. Yeah. >> I' I've got a quote here from Andrew
00:37:28
Strawbridge, who you've known since you were 7 years old. >> Um he was a pretty talented bloke. He
00:37:33
was a very good cricketer opening the batting, keeping wicket, and bowling fast. If he had the same passion for
00:37:39
cricket as he did rugby, I'm sure he could have made it in that. Oh yeah. Oh
00:37:43
okay. >> Yeah. He was a pretty talented sportsman himself. Um straws in terms of uh
00:37:50
cricket and cricket and rugby. Yeah. >> But the rugby ended up all right. Um the
00:37:55
fourth most capped wet player ever with 140. Uh number one on that list Fuzzy with 148. Yeah.
00:38:02
>> It's a hell of a career. Uh yeah. So you guys were teammates for nine seasons.
00:38:06
Won the NPC together in 1992. Is that the greatest WA rugby team of all time? The 1992 team.
00:38:13
>> Oh, I think it would have to be up there. 1992, 1993. I think we won the the Shield. But I
00:38:21
remember I remember winning the but we played Oakland in the semi-final Eden Park and I think the most 92 93 probably
00:38:29
two significant years that you know playing Oakland uh in a semi-final in ' 92 in Eden Park and then uh for the
00:38:38
Shield in in 93 and they never scored a try in both those games and and uh remember talking to Zen Zanbrook and
00:38:45
when we won the semi-final in 92 and he said you know if it had been his Shield game you wouldn't have won and I kind
00:38:50
kept that in the back of my mind for for another another 12 months. But but also
00:38:57
uh got to recognize that what a great Oakland team that was. And I can remember my first game
00:39:06
um playing against Oakland for the Shield uh I think it would have been about 87
00:39:12
or something like that. And and we were a young team and we knew that um potentially if we stayed together that
00:39:18
team was going to get better and and Oakland put 30 odd points on us and and and beat us comfortably at Eden Park.
00:39:27
And but for me as a person, you know, I I just learned so much and I kind of went after the game went, "Oh my god, I
00:39:34
want to play them next week." And because that was my I had an insatiable appetite for knowledge, but also for
00:39:40
wanting to improve and how did we improve and you know, I learned so much there. and then kind of like
00:39:46
um whether it was Kings uh or Queen's birthday weekend used to you know play
00:39:53
Oakland and in those days and maybe and then obviously in the NPC and so you get
00:39:58
to play them a couple of times and was was all about just closing that gap and trying to trying to learn and and gain
00:40:04
more experience and then obviously um you know we had a we had some pretty good years in those those sort of early
00:40:11
90s. Mhm. God, you must have been like a rock star in Hamilton at the time. I spent a bit of time living in Hamilton
00:40:16
and you know, you see the the the rugby guys go out with their blazers on a Saturday to the outback or the bank or
00:40:22
whatever. Um, yeah, you must have been like a like a god and white at the time. >> Oh, I don't know. I think um
00:40:30
uh what I loved about sort of the the white cattle was just how passionate uh they were as you know
00:40:38
supporters and fans and even the even um uh playing playing the Lions and um you
00:40:46
know in terms of um um yeah we played them 93 um and and won comfortably But probably it was a
00:40:59
Wednesday afternoon before the third test u for the Lions tour and we're probably the only place in in the
00:41:06
country at the time that on a Wednesday afternoon help us too could could fill a
00:41:10
stadium you know because of the support and the obviously the farming community and and the people used to get in behind
00:41:16
us. So, um, yeah, look, they were always very passionate supporters and and incredibly loyal and, um, you know, I
00:41:26
think as you as you get a little bit older and as you sort of go through those stages in terms of your playing
00:41:33
and and coaching and stuff, you you you recognize and you appreciate that the game that you've played and have been
00:41:41
involved in their love is is there there are bigger parts to it and And sometimes
00:41:47
um there's bigger things in the game and then and often the fans and the supporters, they need to be recognized.
00:41:55
And we we're going through some pretty challenging times at the moment about,
00:42:00
you know, how do you how do you promote the game? How do you make it more exciting? What sort of things can you do
00:42:07
to to um to make sure people people are involved? and and uh you I was lucky enough to spend three weeks in Australia
00:42:16
with the the uh the Lions there and you know to see the the Lion supporters and the fans and stuff and and and
00:42:25
I just read a few days ago that basically it's cleared the debt for um for Australian rug rugby you know
00:42:33
that's how important the Lions tours are to the New Zealand uh to the to the
00:42:37
southern hemis we need to do from a rugby perspect everything we can to to support it and and people in Australia
00:42:46
and South Africa and New Zealand, they appreciate, they understand how important it is. But there are certain
00:42:51
people um who I was involved with the Lions when uh I think there were 12 or 14 games and then that went down to 10
00:43:00
and I think it's now it's eight games and there there are people who would you
00:43:04
know like that to like to see that down to five or six games and I think it would completely destroy what a Lions
00:43:09
tour is all about where you know you get the kind of five warm-up games and and the three tests and you end up with
00:43:16
about eight games and then maybe there's a warm-up game and and and and and I
00:43:19
think about 10 games on a tour tour is about right. It's it's kind of like it
00:43:24
is long enough. Um but the impact that uh Alliance Tour can have on supporters, promoting the game, creating interest,
00:43:34
creating superstars and and you know both the home country and and you know potentially in
00:43:41
um the UK and Ireland um and and financially um being a a stimulus for the country that's hosting the uh those
00:43:52
tours. you know, it it's it can be really important. >> Yeah. We'll um we'll we'll get into your
00:43:58
involvement with um the Lions shortly, but um yeah, you made the All Blacks from uh WCO after playing a game against
00:44:06
Wales of all teams. >> Yeah, I think >> having a blinder for WCO against Wales.
00:44:10
Is that correct? >> Yeah, I think we were a young team at the time and Wales had just won um
00:44:17
actually won the Triple Crown. So they've beaten um uh England um Ireland and Scotland. Um
00:44:26
yeah, so I think that was the first game of tour. I actually kept that day and um
00:44:31
um yeah, it was um you know it was a it was good. I remember Glenn Webb the the black um Welsh winger and it was you
00:44:42
know it was a coldish day in in Hamilton. not, you know, probably not as cold as you normally get in uh in Wales
00:44:49
and he was wearing these white gloves and stuff and I kind of went, "Oh, hell,
00:44:52
what's going on here?" But uh that was a little bit different for me. Um yeah,
00:44:58
but we were lucky enough to win that game. In fairness, I I think um probably our record for a record against
00:45:07
touring teams, you know, was pretty good over the years. Yeah. >> So, how do you do did you get a phone
00:45:12
call from Grizz Wy? Were you were you in the sort of all black sort of sphere at
00:45:16
the time? Were you in the frame or were you like a surprise pick? How do you how
00:45:19
do you find out about it? Do you hear about on the radio or do you get a phone call?
00:45:23
>> Um no, it's kind of the on the radio. Yeah, it's kind of like um in those
00:45:29
days, you know, you never really got phone calls and and um I I enjoy that. One of the things
00:45:34
that I introduced um when I became sort of Lions coach and even with Wales with World Cups is kind
00:45:42
of how do you how do you make this how do you create sort of attention? How do you make this uh occasion sort of
00:45:48
something really special and um and that's what happened. you you either heard an all black team announced
00:45:56
on live on TV or you heard it on on the radio and that was kind of and that was what created that sort of that jeopardy
00:46:04
almost in terms of that creating that excitement. Um so yeah, look had a um orbit troll in in
00:46:13
' 88 and um I I I think I was reasonably close at the after the World Cup in 87
00:46:20
to to going to Japan and and wasn't selected and then in ' 88 um you know
00:46:27
had an allback trial went pretty well and got selected for tour of Australia and you think about how things have
00:46:33
changed. I think we went there. Uh 13 games, 26 players. >> Um Alex Wally is coach. Um
00:46:42
John Sturgeon is manager. And then you've got you um doctor and physio, you know. So um
00:46:50
>> it's a compact team. >> Yeah. Yeah. Basically four, you know. Um
00:46:56
and John May actually was the um the doctor. He's unfortunately passed away now. He was brilliant. Um
00:47:03
um yeah and then you think um John Gallagher who was the fullback I think he played 12 of the 13 matches on tour
00:47:10
and so yeah those are you know definitely a lot different to and I was lucky enough to sort of you know have
00:47:17
four years and um you know be involved in on a few tours but you know never got on the um on the pitch set behind
00:47:26
Footsie for for a lot of test matches but um And I and I think and people say, "Oh, you are you disappointed with
00:47:34
that?" And I've never been disappointed. I I kind of am really proud and honored
00:47:40
for the the opportunities I had and experiences I had. Um, and it kind of made me
00:47:47
uh when the coaching opportunities come, I think it made me a better coach. It made me understand,
00:47:53
you know, a player could never turn around to me and say, "Oh, you don't know what it's like not to be
00:47:58
selected to be in there." Hang on a minute. I I know exactly what it's like to to miss
00:48:03
out. But then it's kind of then it's that learning experience, you know, how
00:48:08
do you respond to that disappointment? You got to be disappointed because and I expect players that I've coached in
00:48:13
volunte, you know, pissed off and I expect them to be disappointed they haven't been
00:48:17
selected in um in teams. But then the thing is then it's how you respond to that. you know, someone who throws the
00:48:25
toys out of the cot and mopes around and it's got the head down for three or four
00:48:30
days, you know, they they're in serious trouble of not being involved in the
00:48:35
future. But a player who's yeah, disappointed, you know, he's disappointed, but then he goes, "Okay,
00:48:40
right. I'm going to I'm going to respond really really positively in terms of
00:48:45
doing everything I can to help this team prepare for uh the weekend and get get the team in the best possible shape to
00:48:52
perform on on that weekend. Um players don't realize that that not just coaches
00:48:57
but management teams they they see that and and it does have a can have a really
00:49:05
significant impact on on future selections. you know, particularly if you ever ever in a, you know, 50/50
00:49:11
situation where you're not quite sure, but you've got someone who's a a really
00:49:15
good team man and really really positive around the environment, really supportive and does lots of things, you
00:49:21
know, those they're the people you want in your teams. >> Yeah. Just sort of attitude.
00:49:25
>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's a quote from you that I read. Um, being behind Fitzy was
00:49:29
the biggest education of my career. Is that sort of what you mean? >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was
00:49:34
um and you know he was a fantastic player, unbelievable all black, you know, great
00:49:44
all black captain as well in terms of the success he had. But, you know, I learned a huge amount playing against
00:49:49
him. And I was probably, you know, I'm pretty proud. I probably played um had
00:49:54
more wins against him as a as a hooker than probably anyone else in in in world rugby you know over over that period of
00:50:00
my rugby career you know in terms of white kid in Oakuckland and other games and all black trials and stuff and um
00:50:06
you know he was tough and physical and you know made me >> made me better as a player and and I
00:50:13
hope at the time I made him better as a player as well. >> What was he what was he like to you? He
00:50:17
was ruthlessly competitive. Was he was he supportive or did he >> So was I. Yeah.
00:50:23
>> But but did he was he supportive and nurturing or did he see you as a threat?
00:50:27
And >> Oh, and I think there was I think there was mutual respect. You know, we
00:50:31
>> um you know, we got on well enough, but I I find times are times are changed,
00:50:37
you know. I I see um the relationship between players now and teams, you know, been players who are competing in the
00:50:44
same position. you see how matey they are and they're all civil. Probably in
00:50:48
our day was a little bit more cutthroat. You know, if you were in the same position, you'd be uh civil to each
00:50:54
other, but you were, you know, you'd want to um you'd want to be taking someone's position. But in saying that,
00:51:01
you know, I never wished uh an an injury on anyone. And the All Blacks is probably the hardest environment to be
00:51:08
involved in because I was involved in a period where I think we went 50 there was 50 odd matches undefeated. Um it's
00:51:15
just when which is amazing when you think of sort of 87 to 1990 you know the hadn't lost a
00:51:21
>> lost a match a test match or or a game on tour and then kind of thinking you
00:51:26
know the way for me at the time was you know how do I become number one well either the player that um I'm up against
00:51:36
um gets injured or the All Blacks lose and you don't want to be involved in an
00:51:42
All Black situation or you know it's going to be, you know, fairly difficult
00:51:46
and and quite challenging to um, you know, to get selected for yourself. So, yeah, like a a real learning experience
00:51:54
over a long period for me. >> What was Grizz like? Was he terrifying? >> He was tough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was
00:52:01
uh Yeah, I can remember. Uh, he trained us incredibly hard, you Hey, like I I kind
00:52:10
of I probably had three coaches who who had had the most significant impact on me in
00:52:18
terms of my one one was definitely Grizz cuz Grizz was uncompromising. If he saw
00:52:23
a weakness, he would um push you to the limit where he almost tried to break you and but he it was me
00:52:30
it was a mental toughness. It was kind of like, you know, he he understood um trying to get the best out of you. You
00:52:39
go away on an all black tour and you would train early on that tour. He he'd push your train and then when it
00:52:47
come towards the test matches, he'd ease up and he'd freshen guys up and things
00:52:50
and he he you know, he definitely understood that, but it was important you didn't show any
00:52:56
weaknesses. he wanted he wanted people that were mentally tough and um so I learned a huge amount from that and then
00:53:02
the other two were um Kevin Green uh who coached way and I I thought his man management skills were excellent the way
00:53:12
that he got the best out of people um and the way he kind of motivated and and the environment that he created was
00:53:20
outstanding and Glenn Ross was another one who coached me at first 15 at Hamilton boys and Hamilton all boys and
00:53:27
also with Wetto and probably he was the first guy that I saw was uh the most professional you teaching
00:53:35
background but incredibly well prepared in training sessions. you go into, you knew exactly how long the training
00:53:42
session was going to be, you know, what the what the drills were were going to be. And that to me was that organization
00:53:48
kind of had like had a kind of a big impact because we'd come through a period where you'd go to training, you
00:53:55
never really even with Grizz, you never really knew how long the training session was going to be for and how hard
00:54:00
he was going to do and then how long each drill was going to be. Um and so yeah those you know definitely he was
00:54:09
was tough um had had a lot of respect for him in terms of you know what he had done in the game and what he achieved
00:54:16
and and definitely learned a lot from him from from my main coaching career. >> What what what's your proudest moment as
00:54:24
an all black? Is there anything that springs to mind? Oh. Um, I've never been asked that question
00:54:35
before. >> Yeah. Uh, yeah. I think I think just being being selected. I think I can remember um
00:54:49
once once being on sitting on the bus in all black bus and there was all these um
00:54:54
supporters around and and they're wanting autographs and photos and stuff and I can remember sitting there and
00:55:00
just going, you know, just don't take this for granted. Uh you have, you know, how
00:55:07
lucky you are to be in this situation. And I used to kind of remind me myself of of those sorts of things, you know,
00:55:14
just um yeah, so probably just that opportunity to be involved to to put that jersey on
00:55:24
to to to call yourself an all black, you know, that those are my proudest moments. Yeah.
00:55:30
>> I had um you um a guy on the podcast the other day who's your your career crossed
00:55:35
paths with, Freno Bodica. Yeah. Um, and he what was the he was called something?
00:55:40
Um, and I'm guessing you were the same. Like a guy that a guy that was in the
00:55:42
team but not playing. >> Yeah. >> What were you called? There's a name for
00:55:45
it. >> Dirty dirty. >> Dirty dirty. Yeah. Dirty dirty. And I said, "Why? What's a dirty dirty?" And
00:55:50
he had never really thought about it, but he said, "I think it's because we're
00:55:53
lower than the dirt." >> But I don't know. What? What is a dirty dirty?
00:55:57
>> I don't know what the dirty I don't know where that came from. Just the dirty
00:55:59
Yeah. dirty duties. Yeah. But it sounds like you guys were just pissed all the time like going out casing out what bars
00:56:05
to go to for the test guys on the weekend. >> Well, sometimes those you did those
00:56:10
things. Yeah. Kind of like uh or if you weren't involved. It didn't matter if
00:56:15
you you know you had midweek games. The guys that weren't involved the next day
00:56:20
tended to go out on the night before. you know that that never happens nowadays because we see so many occasion
00:56:26
where someone wakes up sick or someone's uh you know hasn't quite recovered from
00:56:31
an injury or something like that but um yeah it was kind of like you went out yeah I mean it kind of those days was it
00:56:42
was a little bit um um this was a bit of the grizz of philosophy and some of the you know you
00:56:51
trained hard, you played hard, and you sort of kind of drank hard. That was kind of like um and then you fronted up
00:56:57
the next day and you trained every day. And that was kind of like that was the almost that mental toughness and you you
00:57:06
knew you knew the pressures of being an all black, what it meant, you knew the responsibilities putting that jersey on,
00:57:14
um and the history and those sorts of things. Um probably today some you know the people
00:57:21
aren't quite as aware as as aware of the past and you know what went before them
00:57:26
and um you but definitely during that period you knew um yeah and as a dirty dirty you you sometimes went out there
00:57:35
and had to yeah you had to make different sacrifices >> to for the team. um on on reflection
00:57:43
like do you think you were you've been a better player or a coach? >> Uh
00:57:49
I think my experience has made me a better coach, you know, definitely. Um >> and I've played with some some great
00:57:58
players and some great All Blacks who um went into the went into coaching but never made it as coaches. And and I
00:58:08
think a part of that was that they never knew why they were great players. And um
00:58:16
and I I found I found that. I mean, I started kind of at a really young age, you know, like I said, that time in
00:58:24
Ireland. I was a player coach at 25, 24, 25. And and that for me was really um significant because there was a lot of
00:58:35
things that I was doing that I didn't not say so I didn't understand I was
00:58:40
just doing instinctively or naturally because I did and I kind of had to take myself and go oh why am I running that
00:58:47
line why am I doing that why why have I done that and that that to me was really
00:58:53
was quite significant in terms of uh coaching and understanding and um you know teaching players things because
00:59:03
I really had to take myself back in terms of uh asking myself a lot of those a lot of those things. So yeah look um
00:59:13
yeah I was a better player than Fitzy I've got to believe that you see >> let it go.
00:59:25
Um, yeah. So, at the time we're recording this, it's only been um seven months. Seven months since you finished
00:59:31
with Wales. >> Yeah. Beginning of the year. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. How does it feel to suddenly wake
00:59:36
up without responsibility or pressure? >> Oh, it feels good. >> Yeah.
00:59:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um >> like a relief weight off your shoulders. >> Oh, I kind of I I I love the pressure. I
00:59:50
love the um the responsibility and stuff and I I thrive on that and I thrive on being
00:59:59
involved with teams that have been underdogs and stuff. Um what I what I struggled with um
01:00:06
was I struggle with the negativity in the end and I kind of went and >> Is that from the media or the public?
01:00:14
>> Yeah, it was definitely the media. Um, and I kind of went there there's a
01:00:19
there's a guy who's taken a guy called Steve Tandy and and I think that um
01:00:24
he'll do a good job. He but he needs some time and I hope they give him the time. And it's not that the rugby people
01:00:30
won't give him the time. It's not the union won't give them. I just hope the
01:00:32
media given that time because um and I think that when I first went back so finished in two 2019 we made the
01:00:42
semi-final in the World Cup being beaten in the last sort of >> minute with a with a penalty goal from
01:00:48
um Paula um you know lost in the last couple of minutes to the semi-final >> and
01:00:57
so I finished and when I've come back um into 2022 two and start 23. I went, "Oh,
01:01:03
we're in a little bit of trouble here." >> And we haven't had a great Six Nation,
01:01:07
poor Six Nations. So, everyone's writing us off for the World Cup. And what I've
01:01:13
loved about the World Cup and I'm proud of um times that I had involved with
01:01:18
with club sides is that three months together, sort of two or three months together preparation that time and we've
01:01:25
ended up winning our group in the World Cup um quarterfinal. we should have beaten Argentina in the the
01:01:30
quarterfinal. Um, and but I didn't get a lot of credit for that. And then we've gone we've lost 18
01:01:39
players after the World Cup. They have either retired or finished or or gone and played overseas. And and I've just
01:01:46
said this is going to take a little bit of time. And um some of the some of the well journalists who were criticizing us
01:01:52
before the World Cup and said we wouldn't get out of a group kind of didn't really give us any credit. And
01:01:57
then you go on a little bit of a losing streak cuz you know it's going to take
01:02:02
some time and there's a few games yeah we were in a position to win and we didn't get over the line and um and I
01:02:08
just after the the negativity and I thought I need to take some pressure off the players and maybe some pressure off
01:02:15
the union and I just wake up you one day I went actually I don't need this in my
01:02:19
life anymore. You know I kind of I've been through enough. Uh I love coaching.
01:02:24
I love being involved. Um, and the game has been brilliant to me, but there's a there's a time where you got
01:02:31
to actually make a decide for yourself, you know, in terms of do you need to, it
01:02:37
wasn't just about me. It was kind of I was I felt I was making the decision for
01:02:40
the best thing for Welsh Rugby as well at the time. And >> um, and haven't regretted it, you know,
01:02:46
I just kind of um um, yeah, so they're going through a rebuilding phase. And what probably a
01:02:54
lot of people don't realize is that the issues that they're there now they're
01:02:58
talking about you are they going to reduce the four professional teams down to two and you know what's going to
01:03:04
happen with themies and there was a national academy that we had that had been disbanded for a number of years and
01:03:10
that had been successful. Um so um but the success that we had over a period we're there
01:03:22
we knew we knew we were papering over the cracks that were that were there and and
01:03:28
>> when we said when things when the dam bursts which it has uh it's going to
01:03:34
take a while to to fix it up and and I think that's they've been through this thing in the
01:03:40
past where they had unbelievable able success um in the late 60s and the 70s and and then they had um teacher strike
01:03:50
in Wales which really impacted the the the the game it's school boy level um
01:03:57
and that had a quite a negative impact on the game in the 80s and 90s and I think it was you know from having been
01:04:06
amazingly successful in the late 60s and 70s I mean they didn't win a six nations
01:04:11
until 200 2005, you know, when um Steve Hansen was there. Um so, um yeah, it'll be actually Steve
01:04:21
Hansen had already finished him. I think Mike Ruddic had won that um the Six Nations in 2005. So, yeah, you know,
01:04:30
they it might take them a little bit of time again. >> Are um Yeah, you mentioned Steve Hansen
01:04:36
there. Are you guys friends? I found a photo of um you and him on on online. Is is that after the 15 all Is that after
01:04:43
the 15 all draw? >> I'm not sure of it. Uh >> looks like a very awkward passing
01:04:48
handshake. >> Was probably just the uh you know someone >> the angle or the moment. Yeah.
01:04:53
>> Yeah. I can remember um Yeah, that could mean just us walking away or something
01:04:58
like that. I don't think >> Yeah. or you know I don't know if you know what it like I mean I see so many
01:05:04
photos myself and I think photographers they take every single reaction or photo
01:05:10
whatever and depending on the story that they want to write they'll you know
01:05:13
they'll they'll try and match up the match up the photo. So I remember talking to Steve after after um the
01:05:22
Lions and 217 and he you know he said to me afterwards he said um how you feeling? I said I don't know what I
01:05:28
said. What are yourself? And he said it feels a bit like kissing your sister, doesn't it? I kind of went not sure
01:05:33
about that, but uh um you know, in terms of uh yeah, you know, a drawn series for the
01:05:41
Lions. But I think um the the the thing about that drawn series in in 217 is that again
01:05:51
um I think the most amazing thing about that thing is is the photo at the end of the third test
01:05:59
>> and you've got Sam Wland and Kieran Reed holding the trophy where the Lions
01:06:03
players and the All Blacks intermingle and to me that to me is a is going to be a rugby photograph for the ages. It's an
01:06:11
iconic picture and if if the Lions had have won or the All Blacks had have won, we we never would have seen that um that
01:06:19
image, we never would have seen that picture of the two teams um on stage together and and and that kind of like I
01:06:26
I spoke before about >> you know things are better bigger than the game and to me that's that that's an
01:06:32
unbelievable um picture that represents what the game's all about. M would you
01:06:37
still like to be in involved in the All Blacks in some capacity or is that that has that ship sailed?
01:06:42
>> Yeah, I think it's it's it sailed. I get asked a lot about um about um
01:06:52
um being involved in the I'm I'm a great believer in what will be um I don't I
01:06:59
don't think ahead. I don't sort of plan ahead. There are there are I know there
01:07:04
are people who have you know kind of have had the goals and trying to planned out their what their journey is going to
01:07:12
be what their their coaching. I haven't never done that. I kind of thought if
01:07:18
you've been successful um somewhere then opportunities will come along. Um I'm
01:07:23
probably the only person who's been involved in the game as long as I who's never had a
01:07:29
rugby agent. >> Wow. >> Yeah. You've done all your own negotiations.
01:07:34
>> All my own negotiations. >> How do you know you're not getting
01:07:36
screwed over? >> Don't know. >> Kind of know. I think I know what I'm
01:07:41
worth and Yeah. And then sort of negotiate that. >> Yeah. Like you talk to a lot of people.
01:07:47
Everyone sort of >> You got a fair idea. >> Yeah. You got an idea what what you're
01:07:50
worth. Um >> [ __ ] You're saving a lot on agents fe. >> Yeah. Um
01:07:56
>> good for you. >> So I've never had an agent. uh and I've um haven't got a CV. I've never
01:08:03
applied for a job and kind of so I've been incredibly lucky. And so um like I said, you know, great
01:08:13
believer in what will be will be and and not planning too far ahead. And if you're successful, opportunities come
01:08:20
your way. And if you're not um and I'm lucky enough I've had great experiences,
01:08:26
have been successful. you know, had challenging times, but rugby has been a big part of myself and my family's
01:08:34
life, and it's given us those those opportunities to have security, to be able to travel around the world, and um
01:08:41
and you know, have have opportunities in the future. And so if I don't do anything again, um but I'm sure I will.
01:08:49
Um you I might spend the next uh few years spending as much time with the grandkids, doing as much travel as I can
01:08:57
with myself and Trudy and and making sure my kids are in the best possible space, you know, space possible
01:09:04
>> because you're still very young on the big scheme of things. I think you're the
01:09:06
same age now as what Sir Graham Henry was when he finished with the All Blacks, >> right?
01:09:10
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't Yeah. What's what's the closest you've you've
01:09:15
come to being um involved with the All Blacks? Have there been like phone calls or people reaching out over the years?
01:09:20
Oh, I've had um I've had uh I think there there have been times when uh they've been looking
01:09:29
for all the coaches where they've been contacting all the all the coaches in
01:09:34
the world and um but a lot of people would didn't put their names forward in
01:09:39
things and um I think they've changed their philosophy on that thinking at the
01:09:44
time I you know they might contact myself I might contact eight or 10 other people you We want you to put your name
01:09:50
forward for the All Blacks position. But it's one of those there that if anyone finds out that you've put your
01:09:59
name forward for the All Blacks and then you don't get the role and then you go somewhere else, I well
01:10:06
the All Black's my first choice. You're only my second choice. >> It's a really delicate Yeah. delicate
01:10:13
sort of situation that so I think you know I think they've changed their philosophy where they may target just
01:10:20
one or two people in terms of the roles um going forward because I was involved in a situation where as contact I never
01:10:28
put my name forward and I know a number of other coaches because of that scenario I was talking about you know
01:10:33
never put their names forward in terms of uh applying for an all black coaching position. M.
01:10:40
>> So, never say never to anything involved with coaching. >> No, I think you've always got to keep
01:10:44
your options open. You know, that's that's the um the thing, you know, it's
01:10:51
um you know, I finished with Wales. I was going to come back home. Um we had some time as a family planned. Um we
01:11:01
were going to spend some time in Spain and France. Um, Brun had some mates that he went to school with. Um, and they
01:11:10
were all over there with a girlfriend. So, we had good friend of mine's got had
01:11:13
a shadow in the south of France. So, yeah. So, there was 17 of us there >> um sort of celebrating all these boys
01:11:22
30th birthday which was which was unbelievable actually. So um yeah uh so we'll just yeah see what
01:11:33
happens in terms of um that um yeah so had you know had that time and then you know we
01:11:43
bit of time in in Fiji and stuff and just doing lots of travel and things. Yeah.
01:11:48
>> Well maybe you need to make yourself more available. Get a LinkedIn page or
01:11:50
something. I had to track you down by going through your daughter. >> Yeah. Yeah. I know. I I don't know.
01:11:56
Yeah, look, I I was Yeah, we're going to three weeks in Uruguay doing a doing a
01:12:01
bit of bit of coaching there as uh >> um you that was headlines in there in in
01:12:08
the papers in Wales and in terms of that where I was asked by someone involved in
01:12:14
World Rugby um you know, would you be interested to go into to Uruguay for three weeks just to help with some of
01:12:21
their their national academy and one of their club sites? And I kind of looked at and went, you know, the game has been
01:12:27
brilliant for me and here's an opportunity for me to give a little bit back. And all of a sudden headlines in
01:12:33
in um Wales online Gatlin take shock new position. I went, "Oh my god, I'm just
01:12:39
going over there as a consultant for three weeks, you know, to help have a look at their
01:12:44
academy and and uh team called Penroll who was playing in Super Rugby South America. They ended up winning the
01:12:51
competition. So I was there for the last game of semi-final and final was you know great experience great experience
01:12:58
for me in terms of uh looking at something different looking at a different culture uh and I loved you see
01:13:06
uh Argentina when they the celebrations when they win a match and I was lucky enough to be in the change room with
01:13:13
this team from Uruguay from um Monte Video um afterwards where they jumping up and down and sharing the sort of
01:13:21
Latin temperament and stuff, you know, incredible experience. So, um yeah, so we'll just we'll just see what happens.
01:13:28
>> Yeah. How good. I mentioned on Instagram you're coming. I've got a couple of
01:13:31
random questions here. Um hardest conversation you've ever had with a player.
01:13:35
>> Oh, Brian O'Driscoll. >> Really? >> Yeah. Um >> you love like I've I've heard you say
01:13:41
like he's one of your your top five goats. >> Oh yeah, absolutely. Uh I I look I gave
01:13:46
him uh his first international cap as I think as a 19 year old 18 or 19 year old
01:13:52
and then for to be involved with the Lions to be the first person that um uh didn't select him when he was fit and
01:14:01
available um in Australia in 2013 for in the third test. You know that was a really really tough and challenging um
01:14:10
conversation. But like I said, the way that he conducted himself, way he handled himself, I got a huge amount of
01:14:16
respect from him >> um as a player and as a person. But I, you know, I learned a I learned a lot
01:14:23
from that situation. And the thing about, you know, even you've been around the game for a long time and you getting
01:14:30
I I think you're always learning. You always got to keep an open mind. It's
01:14:33
always u life's always about learning experiences and and you know I continue
01:14:38
to learn all the time and don't know everything about the game and you know things happen and and you know that was
01:14:44
a a moment for me an experience for me that you know I learned a lot but it was you know difficult and challenging
01:14:50
>> like what what did you learn from that situation? Um I learned that um probably afterwards
01:14:58
after the second we'd won the first test we' close we' lost the second test um
01:15:04
and probably should have said to the um the media team they they we never had a conversation about who the cuz I used to
01:15:16
kind of allow people to have their own autonomy in doing lots of things and and they made they genuinely made really
01:15:22
good decisions. Sam Wbertton had been injured after the second test and um we put Brian O'Driscoll up on the
01:15:32
Sunday after the second test for for media and if they asked me um I probably said it's not the best
01:15:41
choice to >> to put him up because would have given us a little bit of breathing space and
01:15:48
um I knew there was going to be potentially a discussion because we had had um other players coming back fit
01:15:53
from injury and we'd lost that second test and by doing by Brian being up uh
01:16:01
in the media then people just assumed that oh he's he's going to be selected
01:16:06
for the third test there's a good chance with he's going to be selected as
01:16:09
captain and so they kind of went on that >> um narrative >> that narrative in that road by the time
01:16:14
the team got announced on the Wednesday um you know so uh and that's something
01:16:21
that I've always tried I've prided myself how do you control the narrative, you know, and control the
01:16:27
narrative is always get out on the front foot, you know, get out there first, try
01:16:31
and control the story. Um because once you get um leaks and stuff and things go out then um you're always playing
01:16:40
catchup >> and so you know that I learned a lot from that. Um and probably there was so
01:16:46
much negativity around that uh selection as well in terms of leaving Brian out. Um I can remember on the
01:16:56
Friday so we trained we have had a couple of days of trained had a couple two training sessions on the Wednesday
01:17:02
and another training session on Thursday and a captain's run on the Friday and we
01:17:06
just took the 23 to the the training ground on the on the Friday for the captain's run and and I I should have
01:17:14
taken everybody I should have made everyone feel um how important it was that they were involved on on that
01:17:21
Friday and it was something that because Brian wasn't in the 23, you know, he did
01:17:25
say he said to me afterwards, he said, you know, was the first time I didn't
01:17:29
feel a part of it by not being involved in that 23. And I kind of took that on board and going, you know, just how
01:17:35
important everyone is where I kind of looked at it from a different angle and saying, look, there's so much negativity
01:17:41
about this selection and leaving Brian out. >> Was it better just to focus on the 23 in
01:17:46
terms of their preparation? Uh you again I didn't get it right and in terms even
01:17:51
though we you know we won the game comfortably and then the first question I get in the press conference afterwards
01:17:55
oh Warren you must feel justified in leaving Brian and Driscoll out >> if I'd said yes that would have been the
01:18:02
headlines the next day and I went no not at all you know it's it's the hardest
01:18:05
thing I've ever had to do as a coach it doesn't mean that it was still the right
01:18:09
decision doesn't mean I don't question myself was that the the right call and
01:18:12
the right decision so you always you always trying to play a little bit of catchup, you know, people trying to
01:18:19
catch you out, trying to look for a headline and stuff. And in the past, the times I got myself in trouble because I
01:18:26
have prided myself in trying to be as honest as I can. Um, I don't think there's ever been an agenda. If you ask
01:18:32
me a question, I will, uh, you know, hopefully tell you the truth or give you an honest opinion. Um and but and
01:18:41
sometimes people don't always like that, you know, and that's kind of way spin
01:18:44
away. Like I give you a really good example of that is in World Cup in 2011, I thought um
01:18:53
the All Blacks deserve to win the World Cup in 2011 because they were the best team in the World Cup. I thought France
01:18:58
were fairly hard done by with um a few decisions in that final, you know, and it went right down to the wire and I got
01:19:06
absolutely [Laughter] bollocked by social media for saying that, you know, going well cuz I cuz I
01:19:16
can remember at the time uh Brit and I were uh I had a couple of tickets for the final and you know the semi-final
01:19:23
and we played France and Sam Orbin had been sent off And uh so I gave um my two tickets to the final to to Sam Orbit and
01:19:31
his dad and we were watching the game at the beach and at Halime Brin was only only young at the at the time. Um and I
01:19:39
said to him, "Why don't you watch this game a little bit differently in the
01:19:42
second half?" And he said, "What's that?" And I said, "Um,
01:19:46
let's watch it from how I might sometimes look at that. Let's watch it from, you know, a French perspective,
01:19:51
thinking we're French supporters." And Bring goes, "Okay." So in the second
01:19:54
half goes, "Oh, that should have been a penalty against Richard Mcc." And I
01:19:59
Yeah. Oh, that should be a penalty against all black. Yeah. Oh, that should have been Yeah. So, um it's Yeah. You
01:20:08
kind of uh Yeah. You You always learn lessons in life, don't you? Kind of. You know, as a
01:20:16
Kiwi, sometimes >> you know your audience. >> Yeah. Know your audience. Sometimes you
01:20:19
go, you know, the All Black deserve to win the World Cup, but thought France were a bit unlucky. Well, maybe don't
01:20:25
say that at home in New Zealand, you know, kind of cuz we are as as Kiwis. There's there's our strength is is our
01:20:33
isolation and being involved and, you know, the success we've had in not just
01:20:38
rugby, but all sports and lots of different things. But it it it's also a weakness as well, you know, kind of that
01:20:44
isolation and that naivity and not understanding things. But it's probably not the right time to get into that sort
01:20:52
of conversation. Yeah. >> Do you do you do you load the media? >> I mean, it's it's a necessary e evil
01:20:57
with your job, isn't it? But you Yeah. What are your views on them? >> Oh, uh, it's it's the hardest thing in
01:21:04
in the game to be involved with at the moment. kind of and I I don't know what the answer is
01:21:12
here because the with the media at times you get um you hear them being critical of players
01:21:21
who are you know trained in media. They don't say anything. very um neutral kind of like very you know in
01:21:32
terms of the the responses they get and and and they're looking for some color
01:21:36
and they're looking for people to make but then that opens the players up to
01:21:41
criticism you know social media criticism the players you've read a lot of this thing and you feel for the
01:21:47
players sometimes and you go look I don't know what the balance is but you know kind of like you can't have it both
01:21:52
ways you can't kind of have where You can be critical of players or you write
01:21:58
a story and social media critical of players and and then players sort of clam up and don't give
01:22:05
>> honest answers and look I don't know I don't know what the answer is there but
01:22:09
it's it's it's it's different um and probably you go back a number of years
01:22:17
where you could have had um a relationship a really good relationship with journalists that you
01:22:24
you trusted and respected and you could talk off the record and know that they wouldn't stitch you up, but they're kind
01:22:31
of few and far between now in terms of that. And look, it's I think if you spoke to all,
01:22:38
>> not just not just in rugby, but a lot of people involved in in the high profile
01:22:42
sport and say, you know, what's the most challenging thing that you find, they'll
01:22:45
say it's the media and kind media or social media and dealing with all those
01:22:49
sorts of things. They've got this cartoon here from um is it Rod Emerson? Is that the cartoonist
01:22:56
>> from uh >> from the New Zealand Herald? Yeah. Yeah. So, this is um during the the Lions
01:23:01
tour. Is this the 2015 Lions tour? The one >> 2017. >> 2017. That was a drawn a drawn series.
01:23:07
Is that that one or >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, what's the story about that?
01:23:10
What's the What's the What's the whole backstory with the clown nose? The clown
01:23:14
thing. >> It's a It's a very mean cartoon, isn't it? >> It's not the greatest in the world.
01:23:19
Yeah. Well, I kind of it goes back to where uh there was an all uh before Australia
01:23:32
played the All Blacks and Michael Checker was the New Zealand Herald did a thing with Michael Checker
01:23:42
um being portrayed as a clown and I was asked about that and I just thought look
01:23:48
I I I just thought and at the time I don't remember the the um New Zealand fans were booing Quaid
01:23:58
Cooper and and obviously Michael Checker and I just thought as as a as a fan of rugby I just thought
01:24:06
it was a little bit o over the top and so I made some comment I just thought you know that wasn't acceptable that
01:24:16
that people were booing sort of Quay Cooper and and I thought the the Michael Checker uh clown thing that was done
01:24:24
before that and so obviously New Zealand Herald didn't like me criticizing them and decided to
01:24:32
portray me uh in the same vein I suppose. Yeah. >> And when when when you open the paper
01:24:37
and see that or someone in your team shows that to you how do you feel? Is it is it hurtful? Is it embarrassing?
01:24:43
>> Does it piss you off? >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, and I I think that that
01:24:51
there's there's no doubt in my mind um having spoken to people that I know and
01:24:56
and and trust and and and whatever that that um journalists in New Zealand her were
01:25:04
given some in inside information on the All Blacks. Um, and which is, you know, it's probably the way sport's gone. And
01:25:12
part of the re and part of the the the deal for that was to try and um put me off my stride and upset me, you
01:25:21
know. >> Um, and be critical of myself and that. Yeah. >> Did it work?
01:25:29
>> No, it just made me more determined. It kind of I didn't enjoy the tour, you
01:25:34
know. Well, I didn't enjoy the tour, but I was really conscious that um the the
01:25:40
interesting thing is that all the stuff that happens, like the New Zealand Herald stuff, um the staff would have
01:25:46
seen that, but the players had no idea that sort of stuff's going on really.
01:25:49
They don't really take much notice in terms of reading that. But, um >> yeah, but I did wear I I was I I did
01:25:57
wear a clown nose. >> You do a pre press conference after that. Oh, that was after that. Whose
01:26:03
whose idea was that? >> It was mine actually. Yeah, >> I was going to do I was going to do it
01:26:07
in Wellington after the second test when we won the the second test. Um but it wasn't it wasn't the right time cuz it
01:26:14
was the game where Sunny Bill Williams had been sent off and he kind of like I didn't want to be disrespectful
01:26:20
>> to to him and what had happened in that occasion. But I decided to put it on for
01:26:25
the third test anyway. So um you know it's was it Yeah. And I think if I think uh a
01:26:34
few of the photographers were weren't happy because they they missed it, you
01:26:37
know, they missed the Kashmir wearing the clown nose into the press conference and I I only I walked in with this clown
01:26:44
nose on and sat down and then basically took it off and so I don't think many
01:26:48
people got a photo of me doing that. But look, I don't know what they were, you
01:26:54
know, what they were trying to do. Yeah, it was definitely it was a um concerted
01:27:00
effort by some people to try and put me off my stride and upset me um during that during that tour.
01:27:08
>> Yeah. I'm probably projecting here, but if that was me, if I was in your shoes and
01:27:13
I' I'd played 140 games for my province and made the All Blacks and been in the
01:27:17
All Blacks for four years and um was playing my trade overseas and doing it very well. Um I think I'd be [ __ ] off.
01:27:25
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and I I can't imagine how it would be for your family as well, like
01:27:30
your kids. >> Well, I think it was a there was a journalist People were not that happy.
01:27:35
there's a journalist that um had written a lot of stuff on that on that there but never asked a question in
01:27:42
a press conference. Um and you know it's one I I would I one organization that I
01:27:51
would never deal with again. >> Yeah. I'd never do a sorry for them for
01:27:55
for whatever reason. So um but >> what or can you say what organization or
01:28:02
no? >> New Zealand Herald. >> All right. On the Herald. Yeah. Yeah, I
01:28:04
never I'd never ever do a story with them again. I just think they're trash.
01:28:08
And >> where I thought Sky were great in terms of way they covered stuff, I thought
01:28:12
they were fair. And there were other outlets I thought were pretty good. Um >> it's quite I've had um Steve Williams on
01:28:18
the podcast. Tiger Woods, old candy had him on a couple of times and he um >> he he he he won't do anything with stuff
01:28:25
because of some stories they wrote when Tigers and Fidelity came to light basically accusing him of being
01:28:29
involved. >> And people at Stuff are like, "Oh no, those people aren't there anymore." He
01:28:33
doesn't care. >> Yeah. >> It's the organization. >> Yeah. Yeah.
01:28:36
>> Yeah. That stuff I don't think these journalists necessarily have um they
01:28:40
don't necessarily realize or give much thought into how deep this stuff can cut
01:28:45
because you're dealing with people. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think you got to be
01:28:48
careful and you got to be it's not just um I'm I'm a little bit got thicker skin
01:28:54
than probably than most people and and you know like pretty strong but it's the
01:29:00
impact it has on I see it I've seen it with players. I've seen it with the
01:29:06
players keep quite strong but it's their it's also in their partner and then
01:29:10
their mom and dad and brother and sisters and wider sort of groups you know they kind of um they can take that
01:29:17
sort of stuff more to heart. I mean, I know that um with that clown stuff there, you know,
01:29:24
and there are times where my son and daughter wanted to say, "Dad, we need we
01:29:28
want to go on and say just look." I said, "Just let it be. It'll it'll be
01:29:33
there." But um yeah, I can understand where where people won't deal with certain
01:29:39
journalists or um outlets because of um what's happened. And and I I fully understand that and respect that. and
01:29:48
you know have been in that same situation myself. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, thanks for sharing that and
01:29:53
revisiting it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No. Yeah. It was um Yeah. I look it was
01:30:01
it was it was it was tough. It was probably >> probably two 217 uh 221. It's kind of the first time from the
01:30:14
I have this different view of the Lions. I I have this romantic view of the Lions. I I see the Lions as being an
01:30:20
opportunity to celebrate the game. >> Uh because you bring the players together from from four nations and
01:30:26
you're playing away from home normally against one of the best teams in the world. And I think three of the four
01:30:31
tours I was involved was against world champions and you realize that there's this chance
01:30:37
to to to do something special in the game. and probably 217 221 was the first time I kind of went um it's almost
01:30:48
something that the winning was more important than anything else. Winning was more important the game and
01:30:54
I just think that when you look at the bigger picture and you look at what the Alliance series or Lions tour can do, it
01:31:02
can do some magical things that are that I think are bigger than just just winning. and and I and I would really
01:31:09
encourage people to be involved in that and think about that um and and and be a
01:31:16
part of that and yeah look winning is really really important and but I was kind of I thought we'd gone a certain
01:31:22
way you know and that's a good example where um yeah even like the the very first game the headliner New Zealand
01:31:32
Herald we're playing against New Zealand Barbarians and Fungare for a my son's
01:31:38
plane and I had a coffee with him the the day I went to press conference it was you know
01:31:48
tough for us we just arrived New Zealand on the Wednesday we had a training session on the Thursday we we fly to
01:31:53
sorry we drive to Fong on the on the Friday we're playing New Zealand barians
01:31:56
on the Saturday so really limited preparation and I said to him they said you was a conversation with
01:32:02
Bren and I just said oh look we had a cup of coffee and I just Um, we didn't really talk much about the
01:32:08
game. I just said, "Oh, mate, good luck tomorrow." I said, "You you might have
01:32:11
to make a few tackles." That's all I said. Headline the next day in New
01:32:15
Zealand herald Gatland to target Barbarian's weakness dash his son. I said, "Wow,
01:32:23
>> two for the price of one." >> I said, "Where the hell did that come
01:32:25
out of?" Yeah. You know, Warren Gatlin will the head the first paragraph something like Warren Gatlin will
01:32:31
instruct Ben Tio to run on an angle at his at his son because that's the way
01:32:36
the Lions are going to play on tour. And I'm going okay, you know, right from day one, I knew
01:32:41
exactly what I'm dealing with and and and that that continued right right through um right through the whole tour.
01:32:48
M >> and but like I said, you kind of, you know, you you you um you put up walls a little bit and you
01:32:56
you you learn to expect that sort of stuff and and deal with it. >> Was that hard on Brin? It's a pretty
01:33:05
mean thing to write. It's pretty shitty, isn't it? >> Yeah, I think it was. He was he was
01:33:09
okay. I think it was my my wife and daughter were the ones who >> were a little bit more animated about
01:33:17
it. Yeah. >> And Trudy's a redhead, isn't she? You know, don't mess with a fiery redhead.
01:33:22
>> I know. The only thing I'm scared of is she's about, you know, 5'2 with red
01:33:26
hair. Yeah. So, um yeah, she she can be um Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Fairly tough.
01:33:33
>> We haven't talked much about your time in Wales. Um it's incredible. So your
01:33:36
your first stint there uh 12 years finished in 2019. Um longest serving Wales coach ever. And then there's um
01:33:43
they named a gate a g a a gate after you. >> Yeah. >> Gatland's gate at Principality Stadium.
01:33:48
>> Yeah. >> That's a massive honor. >> Yeah. Look, I loved my time there. Um
01:33:54
it was um made some great friends, some some great had some great experiences. Uh
01:34:02
>> yeah, and kind of Yeah. um I suppose um being involved with a team that there weren't a lot of expectations
01:34:14
and we kind of everyone grew um as a team and we you when you're dealing with
01:34:20
a a nation like Wales with such a small playing base, you're going you're going
01:34:25
to have the ups and downs. you're going to have um you know smallest playing
01:34:30
base of any t tier one nation in terms of the numbers and stuff and you got four professional sides but still a lot
01:34:38
of with a lot of foreign uh input in terms of number of foreign players and um yeah we I think I think over that
01:34:49
period we punched massively above our weight you know in terms of the success that we had but um you know it was
01:34:54
always always tough and really proud of what we achieved, you know, particularly
01:35:00
uh the cycles that we had and in particularly in World Cups anyway. >> Oh yeah, some of those achievements,
01:35:05
four Six Nations titles, three Grand Slams. Um yeah, what are you proudest of from your time in Wales?
01:35:13
>> Um yeah, probably probably that that sort of t Yeah, >> the titles. Yeah, I the the first you I
01:35:24
went there in 2008 and won won a grand slam and and that was a little with a bit of luck you
01:35:31
know you always need in all sport you need some some luck but the first game was against England away way way away
01:35:36
way away from home we hadn't won there in Twickenham in 20 odd years and um and I can remember in the first half we
01:35:45
talked about being smart playing a bit of territory but we we kicked poorly in the first half and kept a lot of ball
01:35:51
away and at Halime we were down 196 at Halime and we held uh an the English wing um
01:36:02
Paul Saki we held him up over over the line and if he had scored 100% England would have won the game
01:36:10
>> because it would have been 25 we got it we held on we got into halftime and we
01:36:16
changed uh a little bit tactically where we wanted to attack through the 13 channel
01:36:21
kept a bit more ball in hand and we dominated the second half I think territory 75% territory in possession he
01:36:29
ended up winning 2619 and coming down the stairs at twigum and a Welsh reporter walks what Graham Henry
01:36:40
was known as the great redeemer what are you going to be known as and I looked at
01:36:44
I went the lucky bastard so that was my first So yeah, um we had a couple of good wins against England at
01:36:53
Twickerland which were always uh good some some good success against France and obviously
01:37:00
>> I I I loved I loved my um time in in the in the World Cup. It's kind of
01:37:06
international was rugby is is is really challenging from the limited preparation
01:37:12
time and there's a huge amount of expectation and you got um and you're really under under scrutiny under the
01:37:20
spotlight in terms of u performance and results. Uh, and what I love about the World Cup is having that time together
01:37:27
where you it's it's the one time in in a cycle where you feel like you're almost
01:37:32
like going back to a club side where you've got like pre-season warm-up games
01:37:36
and stuff and you could >> prepare a team properly. And so I kind of, you know, for me maybe um that's
01:37:43
something I'd like to potentially be involved with is, you know, maybe the next challenge is be involved with a
01:37:49
team um building leading up to a World Cup. I think um the experiences that I've had in terms of um with Wales and
01:37:57
um and probably like I said punching hugely above the expectations and above our weight is something that I'd like to
01:38:05
bring some of that experience in and helping >> maybe another another country involved
01:38:10
in the World Cup in 27. >> Brilliant. Yeah. Is there anything that keeps you awake at night or that you
01:38:16
still ruminate on? Like you I've had Lori Mains on the podcast and he he said
01:38:21
he still thinks about the 95 World Cup often. It's 30 30 years ago. anything
01:38:26
for you like close misses or missed opportunities >> or you sort of at peace with how
01:38:31
everything >> uh I think um the World Cup in 2011 and Sam Wolverton being sent off I thought it was
01:38:47
you know whether it was the right decision but when you got a couple of million couple of billion people
01:38:51
watching a game you know in sort of 17 minutes >> Mhm. You know, you could argue, you
01:38:55
know, should that been a yellow card or should have that been >> Yeah, I thought that was was a little
01:39:00
bit tough and um I thought I thought we would have made a made the final. So, kind of probably um
01:39:09
it's probably been a couple of those those situations, but >> you don't dwell too much.
01:39:14
>> No, I think you can't dwell too much. You got to you kind of got to look
01:39:18
forward, you know, you kind of >> you can't change things. You can't
01:39:21
change the past. And um yeah, you just and you got to somehow try and create your own luck and and and
01:39:30
do things as well. So um yeah, if you if you if you dwell too much and you start,
01:39:36
you know, keep looking back too often, you know, it's going to it's going to um
01:39:41
eat you up, I think. >> Well, it's it's not it's not helpful. And you can't change anything anyway,
01:39:46
can you? >> No. No. And I remember um I give you talk about not changing anything. um
01:39:53
sitting in the uh in the bus with Andy Irvine in 2013. We're playing the Barbarians in Hong Kong
01:40:00
and we'd booked time to go to um the match and we had allowed an hour and a an hour 20. So we were meeting something
01:40:11
like as a a team meeting like an hour and a two hours or two and a half hours before before kickoff. The analyst had
01:40:20
gone to the game um earlier and one analyst rang me and said, "It's only taken us 15 minutes to
01:40:29
get from the hotel to the ground. We've allowed for an hour or 3/4 an hour, something like that." And I've gone,
01:40:34
"Oh, okay." So, I've put the meeting back, the team meeting back half an hour
01:40:40
or 45 minutes or something. And um so we do that, get on the bus to go to the game and we are stuck in um
01:40:54
traffic, aren't we? And we arrive we arrive about 20 25 minutes before kickoff. It was a it was
01:41:02
a it was a brilliant experience. Andy Ivine's sitting next to me going the bus driver, "Go there. Go there.
01:41:09
Trying to get us there quicker." and he turns around to me and he goes, "I can't
01:41:13
believe how come you are, Andy, I can't change it." You know, we it is what it is, you know. Why why am I
01:41:20
getting upset about something that I can't can't really change, you know? So,
01:41:24
um and we went there. Uh the boys were brilliant. We had physios working on the bus, got changed on the bus, taped up on
01:41:32
the bus. We went out there uh and we end up winning the game by about 70 points.
01:41:37
It was one of those things that you know sometimes from adversity it comes comes
01:41:42
a positive out of it and using using that to say um you know whatever anyone throws at us um you know um you're able
01:41:51
to deal with it so I kind of try to turn it was a plan thing I completely cocked up in terms of
01:41:58
timings for that >> well there's all sorts of sayings like control the controllables you know
01:42:03
>> um when people look back on Warren Gatlin and say 50 years what do What do
01:42:07
you hope they'll say? >> Oh, >> suppose this is in regard to your
01:42:11
coaching, correct? >> Yeah, I don't know. I I've prided myself and I'm trying to be
01:42:18
uh straight up and as honest as I could be. Um like I said, that sometimes doesn't always go down with people in in
01:42:25
terms of that. Um and then people would term me as being stubborn, you know. Um but I kind of
01:42:38
like I don't know just um I'd like to think that someone who's punched you know have
01:42:48
taken teams have punched above their weight in terms of you know when I was first involved when the game went
01:42:54
professional in conict and Ireland and um you know we we did a a lot better than people expected and then with
01:43:01
Ireland. I'd like to think that I was involved with a period where it started
01:43:05
of the, you know, a reign of sort of making Ireland more professional and success. I went to Wasp when they
01:43:12
were bottom of the premiership and we won three premierships in a row and Europe and stuff and and Wales. So, you
01:43:18
know, some someone who's involved with teams that was able to get hopefully the
01:43:22
best out of teams and and um and you know, make them make them better than what they were
01:43:30
>> character-wise. What are you still working on as a man? >> Oh, always trying to work on being
01:43:36
better. Um yeah, just um yeah, you know, there's there's always things that you can be better with and
01:43:47
and be um yeah, I I I think that u one of the things that I've got to do um since I've since I've been away and
01:44:01
come back is is making sure you that um back and just making sure that I make more more connections more often with
01:44:12
with with friends and family. You know, probably when you're away, you it's easy
01:44:16
when you come back and you catch up with people in there, but you know, it's
01:44:19
definitely something that that I'm conscious of making sure that I, you know, ring ring some friends a little um
01:44:27
more often, you know, catch up with them for a drink or a coffee or around a golf
01:44:31
or something like that. I've got to be more conscious of doing that because that's
01:44:35
>> that that that is important. >> How are you with the golf? Are you still
01:44:39
like extremely competitive with everything you do or have you managed to sort of um compartmentalize it and
01:44:46
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't play I don't play. I live when I lived in Wales, I lived on
01:44:50
uh it was two golf courses where we lived and I hardly ever played them. So I play more when I come back. Um
01:44:56
>> in terms of the the competitives, say you're playing, I don't know, Connect
01:44:59
Four with your kids or something. Are are you are you able to control the competitiveness?
01:45:04
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No, not really. >> Yeah. Brin's we had a table tennis table
01:45:12
at home and for some reason all the way grown. I still couldn't let Brin beat me
01:45:18
until he was able to actually beat me. I think it was about he was about 13 at the time. Um, you know, I used to just
01:45:24
muck around with him and then I'd get competitive at the end and beat him like
01:45:27
2119 or something like 2120 and he used to go absolutely mad. But, uh, and then once he once he started beating me, I
01:45:35
couldn't beat him. So, uh, yeah, he's he's probably worse than me actually.
01:45:40
So, uh, >> doesn't fall far from the tree. >> I know. Yeah, he's he's he's competitive
01:45:46
and he's got a group of mates and they they get pissed off with him because he
01:45:51
seems to be able to beat them in everything whe they're playing beer ping pong or or whatever they're doing, you
01:45:56
know, in terms of uh competitions and that. So, um >> you guys are a different breed, I've had
01:46:02
um both um Grant and Ryan Fox on the podcast and their their stories both match up. Um Ryan said the the first
01:46:09
time he bet Grant off the stick in golf like Grant didn't talk to him for a couple of days.
01:46:15
>> What is it with you guys? You just like competitive to the point where it's like
01:46:19
almost an issue. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um how do you how do you personally
01:46:24
define happiness now? >> What's happiness for Warren Gatlin? Um, I suppose waking up every day and not
01:46:35
having to worry about things, you know, not worry about um, yeah, I I I I need to,
01:46:44
like I said, I'm there are things I'm doing at the moment in terms of um,
01:46:47
keeping me busy, but then making sure that, you know, there's a focus and in
01:46:52
terms of going forward, I'm going to be doing a little bit of doing a little bit
01:46:55
of stuff with world rugby over the next six months, which will cool to be involved in that. And then um
01:47:02
yeah, whatever that is, you know, I'm kind of I'm not people say, oh, you
01:47:06
know, you need to I don't find it difficult to make myself busy during the day and and uh like whether that's going
01:47:14
to be playing a little bit more golf or doing a bit more fishing or doing things
01:47:17
like catching up with some mates and stuff. Um and maybe, you know, having something that um I'll need to do. So I
01:47:26
I yeah I just I don't find it difficult to make myself happy at the moment. Yeah.
01:47:33
>> What's it's only been a very short time since you've taken your your foot off
01:47:36
the gas. Um so at the moment what is like a perfect day for you? >> What's a perfect day?
01:47:41
>> Yeah. >> Uh perfect day is wake up. The perfect day has to be good weather at the beach.
01:47:47
You know uh I'm trying to do a bit of exercise at the moment and doing some stuff. So I kind of I've been I didn't
01:47:53
go for a walk this morning but been getting up about sort of 5 half past 5 going for a couple of hours walk along
01:47:59
>> half past 5 >> you wake up naturally at half past 5 or >> I haven't been going to bed uh too late
01:48:06
so um yeah just try and do a couple of hours in the morning as the sun comes up and
01:48:12
then get on with the day. Um, and then been been busy. You know, there's always
01:48:19
emails and stuff and bits and pieces to do and uh just getting things organized. We've
01:48:25
been looking after the grandkids a little bit, spending some time up in here in Oakuckland. Um, and then yeah,
01:48:32
perfect day and make make sure it's after 5:00 in terms of, you know, I might have a beer or a glass of wine and
01:48:39
and and I've been doing a lot of cooking as well. So, Trudy loves tidying up.
01:48:43
She's an unbelievable house cleaner in terms of keeping the place tidy and doing the dishes and stuff, but she does
01:48:49
she doesn't particularly enjoy cooking. So, I've kind of been taking on a bit
01:48:52
more of that responsibility and been enjoying it. And >> what's the signature dish?
01:48:56
>> Uh been doing a prawn linguini. Um >> yum. >> Yeah. So, that pretty good. Um I love I
01:49:04
love cooking a good roast as well and stuff. Um, yeah, there's, you know, I'm
01:49:10
still looking at recipes and stuff and things, so but I'm I'm not I'm not too
01:49:13
bad anyway. Yeah. >> Yes. You seem to be enjoying this um this chapter of your life. What What are
01:49:17
What are you like as a granddad? How how are you different as a granddad to a parent?
01:49:21
>> You spoil them rotten. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Ignore the parents instructions.
01:49:25
>> Uh I try not to. Yeah. So, uh yeah, try try not to. But yeah, my my granddaughter's kind of got
01:49:36
me twisted around a little finger at the moment. So, um yeah, they enjoy enjoy spending a lot of time with them and um
01:49:48
and seeing them grow. The biggest thing that I found myself doing was um as a parent you kind of don't you're not
01:49:58
you're not conscious well I wasn't conscious of the stages that they were
01:50:02
going through you know kind of all of a sudden they can do everything and and I could could never remember back you know
01:50:08
>> when did they first start walking when was their first talking but grandkids
01:50:12
you're kind of obsessed with you know every little development every little >> the milestones
01:50:17
>> yeah the milestones and the stages you know just walking, talking, smiling, you
01:50:21
know, recognizing their hands and all those sorts of things and uh >> yeah, so um been enjoying uh spending as
01:50:29
much time with with the grandkids and >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How do you hope they see you as a man?
01:50:35
>> Uh I don't I don't know. I I I I hope they see me as someone who is um
01:50:47
you know can have a have a bit of fun with them. I probably tease him a little bit too much and stuff but things
01:50:57
chasing around. So my grandson's a bit, you know, he loves to wrestle and that
01:51:02
my my they love chasing, you know, um myself and my my wife around and uh uh yeah, so
01:51:12
yeah, the the sporting thing I hope they'll just see me as someone who's a
01:51:19
um as a as a good person and and um >> who's uh kind and and gentle. um but
01:51:28
also can be firm when they when they need to be as well. Um and caring. I mean this the sporting thing that that
01:51:35
that to me doesn't matter at all. It's got no real impact on um how my grandkids see me. I just want to be
01:51:41
someone who's you know sets a really good example um to them. I think I think
01:51:47
treating myself hopefully done that with with our kids and then hopefully we can
01:51:52
continue to do that with our grandkids as well. >> Are you good at being firm? Are you
01:51:56
scary when you're firm? >> Oh, no. Trudy is Trudy is a scary one. Um, yeah. Look, I can Yeah, and I can
01:52:05
definitely be firm and um um hopefully in the right way. Yeah. without being, you know, um
01:52:13
despite what people um in Wales would say about me, the the thing is the thing I the thing I love is that there is a
01:52:22
perception that people have over you, you know, because people in Wales would see me as this uncaring um sort of um
01:52:31
cranky sort of you miserable bastard sort of thing. And I I don't have a problem with people that perception of
01:52:39
me because the the only people that matter are your your friends and your family and um and you and people
01:52:49
involved in in your teams and so you know, excuse me. Um I'm not I'm not sort of um too
01:52:58
worried what other people what the impressions other people have of me. >> Yeah. Well, they don't even know you.
01:53:03
It's almost based on a based on a snapshot or yeah, a perception. >> Perception or Yeah. I might say you uh
01:53:12
just, you know, potentially showing very little or no emotion, you know, as you're watching games, but
01:53:21
that's a time when the the cameras are on you, but you know, there's definitely
01:53:24
emotion in between in and other circumstances. So they the perception is that you know you're
01:53:32
emotionless in terms of um not displaying a lot of stuff but and that can be people's opinion and
01:53:39
that and that's fine with me you know kind of like that doesn't bother me you
01:53:43
know like I said it's the your friends and family are the ones and and teammates are the ones that really
01:53:48
matter >> well they know if they come to you and they they say you you know you being
01:53:53
grumpy or contankerous or whatever then you probably have to do something about about it. Absolutely.
01:53:57
>> So, it comes from a good place as well. When was the last time you cried?
01:54:01
>> Um, oh, probably a year ago. >> Um, uh, yeah, it' be a year ago. And, uh, I know
01:54:13
I know the day actually. Um, St. Patrick's Day. Um, good friend of um, Britain's probably one of his best mates
01:54:20
was hit by a car and killed in Sydney. And um so I kind of knew the day after that and my wife told me. So yeah, it
01:54:31
was yeah it was it was tough and it was really really tough on Brenn as well because
01:54:37
>> he got the phone call and um from uh good mate of his Mitch's partner and uh
01:54:44
you know Brinn was the one who then had to make the phone calls to all his mates. And so for someone of that age to
01:54:50
have to uh deal with and um give tragic news to you know it was one it was it was really really tough on
01:54:59
him. So yeah probably that's the last time I've cried. Yeah. >> Have you got got more emotional as you
01:55:04
got older? >> Yeah I've always been emotional. Yeah. I've always been
01:55:08
>> um there's always been a tear in my sad movies and stuff and things. I I've
01:55:14
>> I that's what's driven me, you know. I kind of um um I you know you see something and then
01:55:21
you I always I have a bit of a tear in my I hate scary movies. Always been terrified and [ __ ] myself at scary
01:55:28
movies but you know emotionally I I um you know I've always been quite emotional.
01:55:35
>> What what are you most afraid of apart from horror movies? Uh, don't know. Not not not afraid too too
01:55:45
many things, you know. I kind of want to what I'm afraid of. Like I said, I've
01:55:50
made lots of sacrifices in in in my life. And I want to make sure that um hopefully the next 15 or 20 years I get
01:55:59
to really enjoy and do the things that I want to do and and travel and spoil the grandkids and and spoil my two
01:56:07
kids as as much as possible because we like I said we've made those sacrifices.
01:56:11
So, you know, it's the opportunity to enjoy that part of our lives. >> Yeah. The fruits of your labor sort of
01:56:17
thing. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. >> Just kick back and enjoy it a bit.
01:56:19
>> Yeah. >> Um any regrets? Um, no, nothing that nothing that springs to
01:56:28
mind. You know, there's always games where you might have done something a little
01:56:34
bit differently or but like I said, I don't dwell too much on on the past. I'm
01:56:38
I'm always someone who's sort of um focused on on looking forward and and
01:56:44
and you can't change things, you know, so it's kind of you learn from experiences and things that you do
01:56:50
slightly different, but no no real regrets. >> And if um Gabby, Bren, Trudy, and and
01:56:56
the grandkids were all in the room now, what three words would you like them to use to describe you?
01:57:07
Um, oh, generous. I think that's something that uh uh caring and um generous, caring, and um
01:57:24
hopefully fun. Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, great words. >> Yeah. >> Gabby may disagree since you got the
01:57:31
draw and you didn't give her the card. And last one, Warren Gatland, are you
01:57:35
proud of yourself? >> Uh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I've uh yeah, kind of been I've been lucky. Um,
01:57:47
you know, I come up I was um I probably have had a a bit of a different focus. you know, sport's given
01:57:55
me so many great opportunities and um and I was lucky enough in terms of my upbringing in terms of the
01:58:04
support I had, but you know, definitely came from a very modest family background in terms of didn't have a lot
01:58:10
and um and I think, you know, a big part of my motivation is is trying to produce
01:58:18
and have a couple of kids who I think um are really good kids. if if they any way I felt that they were spoiled or
01:58:28
rude or whatever, you know, I wouldn't I'd be disappointed with them. I think
01:58:32
they're they're two good kids and and hopefully um being able to provide for
01:58:37
them and give them those opportunities in life that I didn't really have, but
01:58:42
but for also them to appreciate and respect that those opportunities that they've had and and hopefully for them
01:58:49
to to continue to be able to do that with their own kids as well. >> Yeah. That that's the best team you've
01:58:56
coached, eh? >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. M
01:59:01
>> um then the big match thing that we talked about earlier says it all I reckon.
01:59:06
>> Yeah. >> About the family dynamic and what you guys have got. >> Yeah. And it was only it was only recent
01:59:10
when Brenn and I were talking about it and um you read read the story. Um how much I love you back here or something.
01:59:17
I can't remember. Yeah. Um BR was Brenn thought that those those words were actually in the book.
01:59:25
>> I didn't realize you went wrong. >> Yeah. >> It wasn't that.
01:59:28
>> Yeah. He said, "I thought that was in the book. Didn't realize you made that
01:59:32
up." I was >> flicking through the pages. Where is it? >> Yeah. Oh, this has been fun. How How is
01:59:38
this for you? Like, do you are you uncomfortable reflecting on your life and achievements or do you do you enjoy
01:59:44
it? You find it quite >> Yeah. I I I Yeah, I think it's a reminder of um
01:59:51
it's a reminder and a reflection of uh you know what you've done and and and
01:59:57
um you know potentially achieve, but it's also a reminder of what you've
02:00:02
learned and what you what you continually need to learn. you know, we need to keep always evaluating ourselves
02:00:08
and things that we can do better and what we, like I said, I've always tried
02:00:12
to think about, you know, how I do that differently and what I've learned and
02:00:15
and making sure that, you know, you continue to learn that that that to me is that to me is the important thing.
02:00:22
It's um and um but you know, I've enjoyed it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Wonderful. Hey, well, thank you so
02:00:29
much for agreeing to come here today. I've really enjoyed it and I can't thank
02:00:32
you enough. >> Thanks. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you.