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Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New
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Zealand, it all comes from here. That's Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
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for days. That's the boys who got the hole in one in to Finn. How's the performance going?
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>> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In here, you'll find our top performers
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helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here, Finn. >> Maximize. Generate. Putting performance
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first. >> Jamie Mil, welcome to my podcast. >> Oh, good morning, Dom. How are you? I'm
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doing good. Are you nervous? >> I'm so nervous, mate. Been to the toilet
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12 times. >> Why? Why are you nervous? >> Oh, mate. I I I am, without sounding
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like a a stalker, I am a fan, mate. I've I've, you know, heard you and know about
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you for many, many years coming from New Zealand. So, I I'm actually very privileged and and honored to be able to
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come and and sit with you this morning. So, yeah, it makes me nervous. >> Well, well, likewise. It's a privilege
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and an honor to have you here. Um, would it be fair to describe you as like the David Gogggins of New Zealand?
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>> You've come in hot. Um, I'm like his little Mary cousin. I think I'm like a
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much more diluted version, but thank you. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, who is Jamie Mill?
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>> Oh, great question. Uh, oh, look, I'm I'm a father of um well, blended family
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if I'm honest. We got six kids, one on the way. Uh so very busy. Uh business
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owner, a mental performance coach by trade, and a strength and conditioning coach. And that's um that's kind of me
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in a in a really short little nutshell. >> And in the answer to that question, who
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is Jamie Mill? You didn't mention any of your accomplishments or anything, which
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I think is really good. It means you're not defined by these things. Um but the
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the CV is impressive, right? >> Thank you very much. these world records, world record attempts, and just
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some some crazy endurance runs. >> What world records do you currently hold, if any?
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>> Uh, so I've got four of them, four four or five. Four, sorry, five world
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records. Four of them are official and one is unofficial. So, four are recognized by um Guinness World Records
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and one is unofficial. But there's um did a 100 km ultra marathon with 20 kilos on my back in the bush. Uh that's
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that's one uh I did um uh 22,222 double unders. That's at two skips per one jump. Did that in 12 hours. Uh the
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world record for the most amount of chest to ground push-ups in 1 hour. Uh which was just over a thousand. Um chest
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is still not growing. Dom, I've been pumping this thing since I since I was a
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kid. And it won't. >> No. No. Come on. >> Wait. So that number again what? A
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thousand thousand press ups in an hour. Who's about,00 in total? Yeah. So that's
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that chest all the way. I don't know if you've seen the the other world records
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with the push-ups and they're doing these little half things. They're barely
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moving. Look like they're dry humping the ground, but I I um Yeah. No, chest
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to chest to ground. So it's about 1100 something like that. >> That's a What does that work out to be
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per minute? >> Oh god. >> Have you done the breakdown >> mate? I'm I'm from [ __ ] and Ro. We don't
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do numbers, bro. We don't do numbers. Yeah, I can't remember actually. I don't
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know. It was maybe something like 20 something per minute. >> Incredible. >> Something like that. Yeah,
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>> it's crazy. God, you must When did you start to burn? >> Oh, actually, truth be known,
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immediately. Yeah, immediately on that one. It it uh everything I'd done in training
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>> uh didn't Yeah, it was uh it was just completely out of the blue. So, cramping
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and stuff like that, which had never actually happened generally. So, um so if you ask about Yeah. the burn and
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stuff like that happened pretty much within the first 10 minutes. So, it was just managing the discomfort of
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cramping, which I'm sure you're familiar with with your marathon running. So,
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yeah. But, and it's always weird cramping across the chest cuz I always think my heart's only a couple of
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centimeters behind my chest. Surely hopefully that won't ripple out to my heart. But, yeah. So, yeah, first 10
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minutes. Yeah. >> What was it? Was there another one that we we didn't mention? Another world
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record? >> Yeah, I attacked the um 24-hour strict pull-up world record three times. Um, so
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I never did get that one. But little side note, you mentioned David Gogggins. I bet his record, and I must admit, I
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messaged him on Instagram. He didn't get back to me. >> Did he see it?
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>> Oh, good question. I don't know. I can't remember. But, uh, yeah. Yeah.
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>> His inbox just must be full of uh full of people that have outdone him at
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something, right? >> 100%. Yeah. He's like the benchmark that everyone's chasing or Yeah, most people.
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Yeah. >> So, how many pull-ups did you do? 4,267 in 24 hours. Yeah. >> Wow. How many did goens do?
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>> Uh I think he was about 4,000. Yeah. Or or late 3,000. The the guy there was a
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Korean soldier who broke the world record just recently and he got just shy of about 11,000.
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>> That's insane, >> mate. Like insanity. And he's a rig. Absolute rig. Muscles on muscles.
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So, you mentioned um the Guinness World Record for doing a um an ultramarathon, 100 km with a 20 kilo um backpack on.
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I've I've got a weight vest at home that's 20 kilos. I can I can walk for
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maybe like 20 minutes in that before the shoulders really start to hurt. >> 20 kilos is a lot of weight.
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>> It's a lot. It was just shy of 22 hours, >> right? >> Um yeah, tough. And a tough
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ultramarathon actually. It's in our in our hometown on the Sunshine Coast, the
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Black All 100. Uh so through the bush and stuff like that. So, look, it was Yeah, really tough.
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>> Yeah. And and that's just one of like over a hundred ultras that you've done.
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And you've you've done the um you did the length of the North Island in like
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eight days, nine days. >> Yes. So I've done the North Island twice, South Island once. Um
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Melbourne to the Sunshine Coast. Uh which was that was probably the longest I've ever done. That was like 2,000 ks
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in 18 days. So two marathons a day. Same sort of format as Ned Brockman. When I watched his doco,
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>> we actually approached it exactly the same. Uh, obviously he ran across
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Australia, but both went out with the same intentions. I tried to do 120 on day one and realized that the juice of
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the lemon wasn't worth the squeeze. I'm like, buttoned it back to 100 and
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realized, oh, might be out of my depth and then dropped to 80 and he did the same.
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>> So, it's just that over two marathons is a lot. >> You just love exploring your limits, eh?
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Even if um if it does increase the chance of failing. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've developed a um a unique
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relationship with with failure. I'm I think I'm human. I don't, you know, it
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doesn't sit easily, but I I understand the the fundamentals of it. You know,
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that's where we're learning the most and uh gaining the most experience. And I
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think if we're not certainly speaking for myself, I've I've found in in the
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past if I'm not failing or making mistakes, I'm obviously in a really comfortable zone and I don't want to
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stay there too long. >> Yeah. There's that saying that failure is a stepping stone to success which is
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true. It still [ __ ] sucks though, right? >> 100%. It does. I think of all the world
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records and you know I've got percentage wise statistically I'm not doing that
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great in terms of attempts and and ones I actually have. So >> it's funny like two two recent podcast
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guests I've had um in both ends of the spectrum. Lori Mains All Black coach 1995.
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>> Um I asked him how how often he thinks about the 95 Rugby World Cup which the
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All Blacks lost in the final. and he said he thinks about it most days 30 years on.
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>> Wow. >> And then on the other end of the spectrum, I had Hish Kuran who's like
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the the the world's best um high jumper at the moment. >> Um and I asked him how how often he
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thinks about his gold medal from the Paris Olympics which he's had for like 15 months. He's like hardly ever.
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>> Oh, >> so you have these these wins and they don't really they don't they don't I
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don't know you sort of you park them and move on. >> Yeah. I think you said it beautifully
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just at the start. you know, things for a lot of people it doesn't define them.
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But now when you mention those names, I can see why I'm so nervous, mate. Like
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Lori Mains was on a pedestal for me as a kid. So it's like, oh my god, I'm in the
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same room. >> Well, I heard a quote from you. Uh you've said um you've tasted the bitter
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flavor of failure, which is very poetic, but like how do you how do you stop those moments from um defining you?
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>> Like and how do you move on from the Yeah. the fails when you you know when
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you say you're going to do something like you're going for this world record
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and then you fall short. M uh look I I think that's for me it's it's been a
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real delicate um dichotomy like it's been a real delicate dance like I as you said before
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I don't enjoy it and in fact I I really my internal dialogue is horrific you
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know when when I have come up short many times and I get all the >> I don't know if it's imposter syndrome
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but the the whole tall poppy thing you know you know people don't care why you
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even bother and I get all that type of really horrible narrative. Um, which mind likes to remind you every remember
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that time you stuffed up like like this time? Just to let you know, don't forget
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that just how [ __ ] you were. Um, so I I think I'm not, you know, I'm not
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dissimilar than most people, >> but I I do my best not to get stuck in it. And I think I'm I'm infectiously
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enthusiastic about the next mountain. You know, I'm always thinking about the
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next mountain. Even when I haven't even finished climbing that one, I'm always
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looking for something else. Um, some might call that maladaptive. I I just think that's just how I've been wired
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since I was a kid. >> What does maladaptive mean? >> Um, I think Don't ask me to spell it,
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bro. Jesus. Mal sounds like um maladaptive like just unuseful. Yeah. Um, >> insidious like kind of Yeah. poisonous,
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>> you know, like a poison on a drip type thing. Slow. Um, yeah, not useful is
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probably a probably a better way. >> So, where did the um the love of suffering and doing hard stuff begin?
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>> There's got to be a why. >> You've got to be a twisted individual.
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>> I thought it was only a matter of time before you come with the big ones with
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those tissues, mate. There's some wet wipes. Um, uh, look, I've done a lot of I think
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like a lot of people and and I've listened to a lot of your guests on here, Dom, it started really early. I
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just didn't realize it. You know, I I grew up um, in Roouura uh, out in Faka
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or Fenton Parker well below the poverty line. Um, we never had a car ever. So, and and no
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money for food. My my uh my mother left when I was really really young, only a few months old, which which was kind of
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unheard of in the late 70s, early 80s. I think it I think it was out there, but it just wasn't that common. So, I was
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raised just by my dad with um some influence from my grandparents. Um he was a diver in the Navy here in
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Oakland, but he had a um quite a horrific motorbike accident which gave him some brain trauma uh paralysis. So
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he was never the same after the accident. And so inherently I you know with no car, no money, I the
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only way I got around which was like a lot of kids was I just had to walk. And it wasn't until we were visiting home
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about I don't know maybe 12 months ago and it just just occurred to me one day
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I thought I wonder how far my school was from from home. I'd never like Google
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Maps it or anything like that. I thought hm. So we drove it. So instead of doing
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I drove the actual route I used to walk to school mate. It was exactly 10ks and I'm like
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>> so you're doing a half marathon every day. >> A half marathon every day to go to
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school and like it m it didn't I didn't have an umbrella. I didn't even have a
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school jacket and some I did have shoes so I never did it barefoot like some of the hard ass stories you hear. So it was
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never barefoot but um that was 20ks and I thought whilst I wasn't at school for
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very long like only a couple of years in in high school that was a that was a massive distance and I think that like
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just no choice just had to adapt and just had to find that resolve to just go to school whether it was a bad day at
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school a good day at school that's the only way I was getting to school so I
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think if you ask me honestly I think a lot of that uh yeah that was kind of the perpetual
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start there. >> Were you running or walking to school? That must have If you're walking, that's
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like an hour and a half. >> Yeah. No. And it it was terrible. And like still to this day, I'm like, mate,
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I just didn't think anything of it. No wonder I was like 18 kilos dripping wet.
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Like nothing nothing to me. But yeah, it was sometimes I would jog like if I was
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late or and I think similar to your story with your mom, Dom, that which I read, my grandfather was like an
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enormous fan of marathon running. So I was dragged all over the North Island to the different running events from
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Huntley to Talpo to Oakland. And so that I think was in my DNA. So every now and
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then I might break my stride and have a little trot. Um but yeah, generally walking. Yeah.
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>> Um yeah, you mentioned your mom before. It's Yeah. Is she still Is she still
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alive? Do you have a relationship with her? >> No. So, not at all. No. Um, so I don't
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>> Did you Did you see her growing up after she left or >> Uh, great great question. I when I was
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uh maybe 13 or 14, something like that. I actually hitchhiked from Roouaura cuz I knew she was in Christ Church. So, I
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hitchhiked again. Now when I when I look at my life now in hindsight I'm like oh
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why are there no surprises and I think like this morning I did a quick 20k before I came in here to warm
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up for the podcast. I think oh it's all connecting the dots really. So I hitched
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from Rourura to Christ Church and again mate I was 13 14 and just now I think about it like I all the children I've
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got I think I would just there' just be no way there'd have more chance of
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flying in the air letting them hitchhike. But but I did you know I stowed away on the ferry got on a train
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like I didn't have any money but that was that was my attempt um to meet my mother. It was you know that was my
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fantasy my dream you know when I was when I was finding life really difficult as a kid um of which I did many times
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like had lots of challenges like like everybody that was my um yeah that was like my silver lining that was the that
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was the calm in the storm. From the day I get to meet her, I thought everything would be perfect.
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>> Um, and to be to be completely transparent, it was it like it was disastrous.
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I went there and introduced myself. >> Um, which initially it was nice, you
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know, the first day or something and then I was told, you know, you can't stay here. Like there's no room for you
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here. Um, so within sort of 36 hours, 48 hours, I was and I remember making an excuse like I was always had a
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fascination with Denedan for some reason. I think my grandparents and my dad, they were Scottish and I knew I had
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a Scottish heritage and I remember just making jokes and excuses. Oh, it's okay.
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I'm going to go and check out Deneden. That'll be pretty cool. And like even
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now I sit and think I was 13, 14, like and just walked back out the door and that was pretty much one of the last
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times I ever saw her. That's heartbreaking. >> Yeah, it was a bit odd. Yeah. Yeah, it
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was a bit odd. >> Do you um I mean, yeah, you you like you're such a like a happy and positive
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guy, but is there any um like abandonment issues or anything like that, >> mate? My my Yeah, whilst I am um uh
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yeah, sort of uh incurably optimistic most of the time. Um definitely I think it it was a a huge variable played a
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huge role in probably a lot of my destructive behavior and um my and I look I I've come to understand Dom
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through the wisdom of aging that you know she was if there is such a thing and if I if I have wisdom if I've got a
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little bit of it it's probably that you know I think she truly was doing the
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best she could at that time with the resources she had um and the little that I've I understand from different points
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of view and stories cuz I suppose I did my I had I was curious obviously up until a certain point in my life and
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yeah I think that's the best way I could sum it up. she was trying to do her best
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and I think you know I'm I'm very flawed as a parent and and probably the more
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most flawed human you've ever had in your podcast you know so I give or take
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the odd person but I I yeah I don't I don't hold any respons I don't you know
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point any fingers and I just get on with it but I I look yeah in the name of honesty I think it did definitely
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contributed to some of my destructive behavior when I was younger >> you're very generous uh towards there.
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>> Thanks, Dom. Yeah, that's kind of you. >> Um, I'm thinking like if I was in your
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position, I' I'd demand answers, >> you know, you you you've just let it go.
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>> Yeah, I I think I I did, you know, I really think I did. I did, you know,
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fair fair bit of therapy. Spent a bit of time talking to qualified, you know, individuals about about the thing. Don't
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know what that is. Uh yeah, I'm not sure why necessarily I'm I am wired that way. Don't I find it very
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difficult to hold grudges. Not that you were saying holding grudges or anything like that. I I let things go quite
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swiftly. I find I don't let things get their barbs into me for very long. They
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definitely do, but they they don't stay there. I I move on pretty quick. >> Yeah. I'm I'm wired the same way. It's
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it's best for your own uh mental health. >> I think so, mate. Yeah, I think so.
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>> It's it's a selfish thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're you're
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absolutely right. Yeah. >> What about your dad? Did he do all right? >> Uh I think if I could use the if I could
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throw them in the same um wheelbarrow, mate. I think a wheelbarrow is a terrible term. If I could put him at the
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same context, I again I'm a bit more sympathetic with him. >> Um you know, family would would like me
00:18:00
to think otherwise, but I think again, mate, when you're he was an elite frog
00:18:05
man in the Navy in the 60s and 70s, which been very tough to go from, you know, the pinnacle of the military to
00:18:14
definitely not vegetated, but just really uh limited and impaired by his motorcycle accident and raising a boy by
00:18:22
himself in the 70s and 80s, early ' 80s in Roa would not have been easy on obviously on social welfare. He never
00:18:28
worked. Actually, that's not true. He did a little bit of time as a posty, didn't last very long. Um, and yeah, I
00:18:35
think he I think he the same thing. He did the best he could, which, you know, for the both of us wasn't that great.
00:18:40
Um, so things were pretty turbulent, mate. They were pretty pretty turbulent. Um,
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>> but he he became really disengaged when I was about 11 or 12. Uh, had met a met ended up
00:18:56
becoming my stepmother. And yeah, that's what got all his attention and all his
00:19:00
energy and focus. And again, I don't begrudge him that. Um, prior to that, he
00:19:04
there were no women. And it was just me and my dad. >> Uh, everybody knew us but as a kid who
00:19:08
was getting doubled on the handlebars to school on the push bike and everyone else is in a car, but you know, we
00:19:14
skidded in the front door on a on a dirty old mountain bike. >> So, yeah. >> Why Why didn't you go off the rails?
00:19:21
>> Oh, mate. I went off the the the rails expentially. Did you? >> I flew off the rails, mate. I can't even
00:19:27
find the rails. It was Yeah. No way. >> No way. >> Oh, you youth crime. Um, I developed a
00:19:36
yeah, a dangerous uh and um how how else would I a dangerous and destructive relationship with alcohol.
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>> It's one of these people I mean I still remember to this day the first taste of
00:19:52
it and whilst it was disgusting and I coughed and you know like remember those little Yeah. like nip bottles or
00:19:58
whatever raided my >> little miniatures. >> Yeah. We raided my my mate's mom's
00:20:02
cabinet and you know everyone was like oh this is disgusting and I you know I was the same spitting it all over the
00:20:07
place but part of me was like is it disgusting though? this is actually get these warm fuzzies and and mate that was
00:20:13
really early on and so I spent a lot of my life um yeah in and out of AA been through the AA system four or five times
00:20:21
and uh so yeah so as much as um doing better and bigger things recently in my life it took a whole heap of chaos to
00:20:31
get there. >> When did you what's your relationship with alcohol like now?
00:20:34
>> Actually um pretty good. I was I've had a number of periods of sobriety. Longest
00:20:41
was just about 4 years. Lots of psychological work. Lots and lots and lots and I mean like a lot of time spent
00:20:49
um trying to figure it out. And >> so essentially now, oddly enough, after
00:20:54
a lot of deep psychological work, I can I can have one or two at the very most three. And I would do that maybe once a
00:21:00
quarter. So, but prior to that, I was firmly of the belief. And in in AA, they they ask you two questions, and I don't
00:21:08
know if you're familiar with the AA structure. They they ask, you know, if you start drinking, can you stop?
00:21:15
>> And the answer for me back then was a a hell no. Like just a sniff of it and
00:21:19
it's on for young and old. >> Um, and then the other question they ask
00:21:22
is, do you have a it's almost like a manifestation. Do you fantasize about it
00:21:27
in the sense of if it's getting to lunchtime, do you think, "Oh [ __ ] I
00:21:30
can't wait till 5:00 and, you know, have a cold beer or a glass of wine or something like that." And of which I
00:21:35
answered yes to that as well. Basically, that's the royal flush. If you've if you
00:21:40
answer yes to one of those, then they believe, you know, it's quite probable
00:21:43
that you you could, you know, have alcoholism or, you know, a bad relationship with alcohol. And I ticked
00:21:49
the boxes. Now I can I can confidently say after all the work I've done. Um yeah, it's like I've had a labbotomy.
00:21:56
It's like someone banged me on the head. And >> so that's actually great cuz I love a I
00:22:00
love a social drink in the right environment. Um but yeah, no. Um yeah, I was a pest is probably pest is a warm
00:22:09
that's that word's got warmth. I could think of other ones, mate. But a pest is
00:22:13
probably a good one. Well, the the things that you do and the things that you've got done, you can't you can't do
00:22:18
that if you if you're going to be a a a bad drinker. >> No, >> you just you you can't have it both
00:22:24
ways, especially when you get into your 40s. >> Yeah, I thought I could, but yeah. No,
00:22:27
it doesn't turn out. >> So, your your peers at school, what would they what would they say about you
00:22:32
>> back then? >> See, that's always that's always fascinated me. Um, I spoke to a friend
00:22:39
once, not that long ago. IMC his wedding and he he said that they all talked and
00:22:45
they believed that I'd be the first to die out of all of our our group. Um just
00:22:50
reckless and um bit of a misfit. Uh and so that's kind of the only insight I've
00:22:58
got into what they might say. I'd actually be curious, but I'm not sure I
00:23:01
want to know the answer to be honest. >> Yeah. I've I've changed so so much over
00:23:07
my lifetime and and I just I I credit that to you know being they say vulnerability and courage sits on the
00:23:15
same thread and I think I've been vulnerable enough to be courageous enough to to get help when I needed it
00:23:21
many years ago. So I think >> yeah changed a lot and evolved a lot. So I'd be curious to know.
00:23:26
>> Yeah. Well um so why the Navy? You you joined the Navy really early, right?
00:23:30
>> 16. >> 16. >> Yeah. which um for someone that's involved in like youth crime and um is
00:23:36
is you know off the rails. It seems like a weird did you just know that you needed help or you needed to to find
00:23:43
discipline and you you hope you'd find it in the Navy or >> I think like just a bit the same sort of
00:23:49
thread as I spoke about my mom. I felt the Navy was always a a possibility. I didn't
00:23:56
think, you know, I thought I always felt like a the black sheep, you know, I really did. I felt like
00:24:03
everybody else was normal and everyone else was functioning and they had all the things that a person human being
00:24:09
would need and then there was me. And so I thought at a long shot, you know, I might be normal like everybody else if I
00:24:16
can get into the Navy. And so that that sat in the back of my mind. Um, and I and I think I I just followed
00:24:23
the organic process. But I think because my dad was in there and the recruiter that I met and wrote a RSA, he knew my
00:24:31
dad. So as soon as he saw my last name, he asked me, "Is your dad in Mil?" And I
00:24:35
said, "Yeah." And I think that held a bit of weight. But it was back in a time
00:24:40
when you could get in with no school school qualifications. if you just wanted to go into the sort of not not
00:24:45
into um to be an ordinary rate type thing instead of an officer. You didn't need any school qualifications. I
00:24:51
believe it's a lot different now. >> What did what did the um what did the
00:24:55
Navy teach you that life hadn't up until that point? >> Oh, that is a sensational question. Um,
00:25:00
the honest answer, it it gave me everything that nurturing and sort of the nourishment
00:25:10
>> of mom and dad you would normally get. That's what I got. And I don't mean like
00:25:14
I like like a lot of us in those days in the early '9s, there was a lot of bullying, a big really bad bully
00:25:21
culture. So, I was, you know, I wasn't special. I was I got bullied. Wasn't
00:25:25
particularly tough or big or anything like that. So, um, but and when I talk about nourishing and nurturing, like I'd
00:25:32
never been taught how to wash myself. Like just that memory of going into the shower cubicles with the instructor and
00:25:39
now I don't know if they do this nowadays. He's there with a bar of soap.
00:25:43
Like literally like the ABCs of washing yourself. So you only got 2 minutes on a
00:25:47
frig to get in there, get out. So we get under here with the bar of soap. We get
00:25:50
the bells and whistles under the junk and in the backside and then you're out
00:25:53
of there. And I was thinking, no one's ever shown me how to do that. So you get
00:25:57
under there with this open and so stuff like that. Like I just >> That seems that seems barefoot.
00:26:02
>> I know that's like really bad. I'm like there I am at 16 and what was I doing
00:26:06
before that? I'd hate to think. Um but yeah, stuff like that and how to make
00:26:10
your bed and and you know standards, you know, I often remember and I was really
00:26:15
fortunate the instructor I had uh guy Andrew Fleck. He was great. You know, I remember him saying, you know, the
00:26:21
standards that you you walk by are the standards you accept. So, >> you know, they got to have high
00:26:26
standards and and so just that that you'd normally get from mom and dad, >> well, a person could get normally from
00:26:31
mom and dad. >> Did you immediately sort of thrive in that environment with structure,
00:26:35
discipline, boundaries? >> Oh, it was definitely good for me, but I I had that that that misfit sort of
00:26:42
character like even, you know, jumping over the fence at the the college over there. I'm so glad I've been out for a
00:26:48
while. I could probably get away with sharing the story, but like telling everybody we're going to church and
00:26:52
we're over the fence at Tarmac and off to the pub and getting maggodaned and
00:26:56
back over the fence and coming back from seeing baby Jesus on in the in the morning like twisted uh you know and I
00:27:03
was the kind of the catalyst and the the the one encouraging everybody. So I was
00:27:08
running a muck but you know I was disciplined for that. I I yeah god I was in trouble all the time. So but it was
00:27:15
good. It it was really good. But I have no regrets. I have no regrets. >> What were the best and worst things
00:27:20
about the Navy? >> Um the best things for I think for for a troubled individual like me, you know,
00:27:29
you hear about that uh what do they call it like um compulsory military service.
00:27:34
Don't quote me on this, but I think some of the European countries still have it.
00:27:38
Maybe like Sweden or something. >> I think Singapore does. >> Oh, do they? Do they? Great. Yeah. So,
00:27:42
I've heard I've heard about it and I think for an individual like me, Dom, it
00:27:46
was perfect like to iron out some of the chinks. Um, you know, teach some standards uh probably not values but
00:27:54
standards, behaviors, you know, attributes and traits of a decent human being. >> Um, and because of the nature of the
00:28:01
environment being a bubble, th those those traits and you know, actions for individuals to be decent human beings
00:28:08
that that can be nurtured in that environment. So what's a good thing it that like and and that's what I think
00:28:15
gave me a great structure and fundamentals to to go out in life at my time in the military the the stuff that
00:28:24
wasn't great or the the inverse of the good stuff was like the drinking culture
00:28:30
for me at the time I loved it. I fell straight into it. The power drinking culture, you know, we were issued two
00:28:36
cans of beer every single day when we were at sea. like everyone and if you didn't want your beer, I could have your
00:28:42
beer and stash it in my locker and and even a generation before me, they used to issue rum on the flight deck. So at
00:28:49
2:00 every day, you go up and get your issue of rum and put it in your coffee cup. And so it was it was nurturing a
00:28:55
power drinking culture of which I loved. So, you know, getting there's places
00:28:59
I've been overseas. I couldn't even tell you what happened, where I was, and I
00:29:04
think now like, man, I've been to some of these countries and I can't remember
00:29:07
anything. I literally can't. And so, um, yeah, and then they wonder why a lot of
00:29:13
people that had a propensity for violence or troublem um, like myself, we just get ourselves in the [ __ ]
00:29:21
>> cuz we're blind drunk all the time. And, um, so that but I think I think they
00:29:25
have I think they've reframed it. They've reset. I think there's not much
00:29:28
tolerance for that anymore. Um, which I think is a good thing. >> Well, there's never been a I don't think
00:29:33
a better time to be a non-drinker. Yeah. No, no, no one's No, I don't think
00:29:36
anyone's calling you a [ __ ] anymore. You know, my wife calls me a [ __ ] >> It's not for drinking.
00:29:43
>> So, so you you left after 7 years. So, by 24, you you're done. Why Why did you
00:29:47
leave after 7 years? >> Oh, your questions. Yeah. I uh >> Were you made to leave?
00:29:54
>> No. Although I was on my last warning. Great question. Yeah. I I was literally
00:29:58
on my last warning and they said, "Anything anything related to alcohol or drunken,
00:30:04
you know, scraps, you're out." And I was like, "Ah, okay. This is not ideal." And
00:30:09
the irony, and this is why I asked you about the police station, the police station's moved. So, I actually started
00:30:14
um recruiting to go into the police. I went all the way through all the way through to the commissioned interview to
00:30:20
become a police officer. And I wanted to become a police diver. And even and I don't think I'm speaking
00:30:27
out of turn here. I'm going to get anybody in trouble. Like even my exams to go into the police like I felt like
00:30:32
they really wanted me. Like I I still can't do mathematics and things like that. And all my grades were like just
00:30:40
passed like to get in the police was like 50% here 50%. I was thinking how do I get 50% in a maths test? Never had 50%
00:30:46
in my life. So I felt like they really wanted me in. Um but through that process which was maybe
00:30:54
about 9 months and I was doing the work experience over here at Oakland um CBD uh I got myself into another drunken
00:31:02
brawl and like I can't fight really to save myself like I I thought I could.
00:31:07
Um, I was the only one that thought I could and yeah, got myself arrested and uh, and I'll never forget having to go I
00:31:14
got the phone call and I was hung over on a Monday morning and the police recruiting in Green Lane. I get this
00:31:20
phone call and the recruiter really liked me like she took me under her wing, taught me how to type. Um, and I'd
00:31:27
left the Navy in a in an effort to go into the police and it was looking certain. Yeah. And I got this phone call
00:31:33
and they said, "Can you come into the recruiting office?" And I'll never
00:31:37
forget the conversation. I walked in. I had a girlfriend at the time. She waited
00:31:40
in the car and I'm like, "Oh, I don't think this is going to be very good,
00:31:42
eh?" But but I meant to go to potty lure in like a couple of months or whatever
00:31:46
it was to the police college. And she literally looked at me and she said, "In
00:31:50
all the years of New Zealand policing, I have never seen this before. Like, you really are an idiot, aren't you?" That's
00:31:56
what that's what she said. And I thought she just called me an idiot. And I remember thinking, "Oh, you are an
00:32:04
idiot, you muppet." >> And she said, "That's it. Like, you can't you can't come into the police and
00:32:11
you're out drinking and punching on on the weekend." I didn't get a criminal
00:32:15
charge in that particular um which is probably the only benefit of that that uh particular time. But yeah, I remember
00:32:21
hopping in the car and making up some [ __ ] story to the girlfriend at the time who wasn't, you know, long-term
00:32:26
girlfriend, but oh yeah, no, no, no, everything's good. They just said, you know, stay out of trouble and, you know,
00:32:31
just some [ __ ] story to save face. But yeah, that was it. And then I was um yeah, left left floundering.
00:32:41
>> That's the honest answer. >> So yeah, so you're 24 then. I'm guessing
00:32:44
this is the beginning of um a downward spiral cuz I've I've got a quote from
00:32:48
you. Um >> Oh god. >> Uh so this was Christmas Eve 2005. So you're 26 years old. You say, "I was a
00:32:55
whopping 116 kilos, obese, deeply hung over, emotionally and mentally unhappy, 9 months out of the Navy, disgraced,
00:33:03
depressed, and done." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So then what? >> How do you bounce back from that?
00:33:11
>> Yeah. Interesting. Um, yeah, you said it really well. That's that that was Yeah, probably the darkest
00:33:19
period of my life. Um, I think a lot of people would potentially be able to relate.
00:33:26
>> I just felt like an absolute failure, like an embarrassment. And I and I truly
00:33:32
was defined by my time in the Navy. And it was always very proud. Dom like would
00:33:38
go and catch up with mates and go back home. There'd be a party and people say,
00:33:42
"Oh, what do you do?" Like, "Oh, yeah. I'm in the Navy. I'm just about to go
00:33:44
under the police. You know, I'm going to be a police diver." And of course all
00:33:47
the girls were oh and then you know everybody else it was a real conversation starter and a discussion
00:33:52
point. Now I had nothing that I wasn't in my mind as a young, you know, in my
00:33:58
mid20s. I was just an absolute [ __ ] fight. Like there was no I just felt like I was a nobody from nowhere. Like
00:34:06
there was no story. There was no, you know, listen to me, look at me. And I think because uh my vice being alcohol,
00:34:15
that was an easy way to anesthetize myself and and uh numb things. And so I did that like extraordinarily well. Did
00:34:26
a little bit of travel during that time and I just yeah, you know, ate [ __ ] steak and kidney pies and beers and
00:34:34
you donuts. I don't know. I just I I essentially got pregnant on food and beer. Like I went from 75, which
00:34:40
obviously I'm not meant to get pregnant. I was like a little brown bubble. I went
00:34:44
from 75 kilos and pretty athletic. like I was very fit. Um to yeah 116 kilos and
00:34:52
it was my grandfather was the the uh the fork in the road. He was the one that called me out on um yeah my behavior and
00:35:01
that and that was probably the the biggest turning point in my life was that that that moment with my
00:35:07
grandfather. >> It's a huge act of love, isn't it? >> It Yeah. It was dressed up as you know a
00:35:13
smacked ass. Really? Yeah. And and could I just share a little bit about that? Yeah.
00:35:19
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> So I went I had disappeared for 9 months
00:35:23
and as you alluded to I I uh had gotten swollen and so last time he'd seen me I
00:35:30
was going into the police 75 kilos athletic you know I was this superstar grandson that he was very proud of
00:35:38
>> and um I'd come home and I think I might I get this date wrong. I don't know if
00:35:42
it was his 70th birthday or 75th. So there's about 20 family members all gathered and we're out on the farm in
00:35:49
Lake Oerka uh in Rooua out by the blue and green lakes and we're all sitting at
00:35:54
this table and I came in and he was already there and I I hadn't seen him for 9 months and I remember him and he
00:36:01
was he was Scottish. Um, and I remember him looking up. I'll never forget it.
00:36:08
Like his piercing eyes looking at me and then he just looked back down. I was like, "Oh, you know, good day."
00:36:15
type thing. And he just didn't say anything. And it was that real artificial conversation. And there's the
00:36:23
big white elephant in the room. Nobody was saying anything. And I gave him a bit of a halfass hug. And so the night
00:36:29
carried on and by this stage I'd probably necked about nine steinstein grenades. And I remember eating oxtail
00:36:35
stew and there's white bread rolls everywhere. I'm covered in [ __ ] gravy
00:36:38
and crumbs and [ __ ] and beer. And I was getting I was halfway to Twisted Sweating. That was another thing I
00:36:46
remember about being really overweight. Like sweat dripping down the nose into my bowl of stew. Didn't matter. Added to
00:36:52
the seasoning. I'm into it. And uh and like everybody was kind of quiet. No one
00:36:56
was saying anything. And I just heard in this deep like Scottish accent, "You
00:37:02
look disgusting." And I was like, "Oh." And I remember thinking in my
00:37:08
mind, "Wonder if he's talking to me. Wonder if he's talking to me." So I, you
00:37:14
know, of course, take another mouthful. Why wouldn't I? So I start eating again.
00:37:19
And then he's just like, "You don't even look like my grandson. You don't look anything like him. like
00:37:27
you're sweating, having your dinner, you're covered in crumbs, you're
00:37:30
disgusting. Like what happened to my grandson? And I just felt like, oh my god, I'm going to burst into tears.
00:37:38
Another mouthful. And I thought, oh no, he's definitely talking to me. And I was
00:37:42
thinking about now, I'd love the ground just to just to like just to take me
00:37:47
away. Like maybe if my heart stops or if I just faint or something, it'll all be
00:37:51
over. And I remember hopping up because he didn't stop. He sort of kept going
00:37:56
with the same sort of narrative and everyone was like my cousins were starting to get upset and I thought, "Oh
00:38:02
shit." So I started clearing the plates and the cups and making my way into the
00:38:06
kitchen. I remember getting into the kitchen just dropping stuff on the table and I just burst out in in tears. My
00:38:14
stepmom came in, got the old got the old warm hand on the lower back, the old the
00:38:19
old back rub in the cuddle, and she said, "Oh, no. He doesn't he doesn't
00:38:24
mean it, Jamie. He just doesn't know how to, you know, communicate. He just he's
00:38:29
just, you know, he just hasn't seen you and he's tired. And I couldn't and I
00:38:34
never never forget just think he meant every single word. Like he meant every single thing. And so I went I remember
00:38:41
going to bed that night and lying in bed 16 round fella lying in bed. And I remember
00:38:49
thinking, "Ah, that's it. That's it. I'm I'm going to get up tomorrow morning.
00:38:55
I'm going to run 5ks. I'm back into it. I hadn't done anything for 9 months. I
00:38:58
was like, "That's it. That's enough. I'm done. I'm done." And as as sure as that
00:39:04
that memory is, I remember waking up the next day so hung over. Like a possum had
00:39:09
shattered my mouth. I'm like, "Oh, that just that rank hangover." I'm like,
00:39:15
"Oh." I was like, "No, go on." Put my shoes on. I ran 5K. I think that took me
00:39:21
about 2 and 1 half hours, something like that. I don't know. Went for a run and
00:39:25
mate, I never looked back from that day. And when you when you talk about love, it just took me a long time to see it.
00:39:32
But it it really was that like he meant it. And I think I perhaps wouldn't have
00:39:37
listened if it was anybody else. But because I loved him so much and had so much respect for him and as much as it's
00:39:44
stung more than any and still to this day you talk about Lori Mains I like that's whilst it's a different context I
00:39:50
think about that >> not every day but it wouldn't a week wouldn't go by I don't think about that
00:39:55
moment. >> What was the catalyst for you becoming the man you are today? I think it I
00:40:00
think that was I think that really really was I mean I definitely like I said I'm very flawed and I make mistakes
00:40:06
and fallible and I you know continued to do that but just not to the same degree
00:40:12
I think it was from that moment on >> and I don't know did you ever read Tim
00:40:16
Ferrris's book the I think it was the 4hour work week and he talks about the
00:40:20
harjuku moment the Japanese have a term the word is harajjuku and it just basically means a a swift and rapid
00:40:28
change in your path. path you're going basically you're going left and then
00:40:31
something happens an event or a moment you completely change direction in a positive and profound way and your life
00:40:39
is never the same. So that was my juku moment. I like I firmly believe that. >> When did your granddad pass away or is
00:40:45
he still around? >> No, he did pass away um maybe four years ago. Dom. >> Right. Oh, so he got to see you do all
00:40:53
this cool [ __ ] He did when I ran when I ran from Melbourne to the Sunshine Coast. When I went around Tasmania, he'd
00:40:59
send me little videos uh courtesy of my uncle. Um so yeah, he was a very proud man. He got to see the the benefits of
00:41:07
his of his Yeah. sincerity and authenticity as words. >> Did he ever apologize for
00:41:13
>> No, definitely not, mate. Holy moly. Like a spade was a spade, bro. It was
00:41:18
definitely not a shovel or a set of head strimmers. Yeah. >> See what he means. means what he says.
00:41:24
>> Oh, I was talking to Liz about it the other day. I remember saying to him,
00:41:26
"Oh, Grenad, I want to get my ear pierced." You know, back in the early
00:41:30
90s and I said like, "I'm going to get one. I'm going to get my birth stone.
00:41:34
You know, the Sagittarius, it's green." And he said, "Yeah, that's great. You
00:41:37
come home with that and I'll rip it out of your ears." And sure as [ __ ] that's
00:41:41
exactly what he did. >> Yeah. >> Well, what would your So, I'm guessing
00:41:44
that was sort of like your rock bottom moment, the 116 kilos. There there's probably people listening to this or
00:41:49
watching this that are at their own version of rock bottom right now. Like what would your advice be to them?
00:41:55
>> Um >> how can you how can you you how can you turn it around? >> Yeah.
00:41:59
>> When it might seem impossible or just too difficult. >> Yeah. Oh, I definitely remember it being
00:42:03
Mount Everest when I I laughed and joked about that 5k. I actually think it was about 2 and a half hours if I'm honest.
00:42:09
Um yeah, does look um I had like a mild asthma attack. I remember that. And I went to the Lakescam pharmacy and the
00:42:18
doctor said, "It's cuz you're so big, buddy. That's why you can't breathe."
00:42:22
And I was like, "Oh my god." Um, so that was my first experience with asthma.
00:42:26
But, um, it it does look like a mountain. That did for me. Like, it really did for some time.
00:42:33
>> But I'm probably a bit more pragmatic and methodical now, Dom. like especially
00:42:37
with my line of work, I I like to look at the underlying psychological mechanisms without getting too much in
00:42:44
childhood trauma and all the the the undercarriage of everything. And what I mean by that is
00:42:50
>> I've come to understand that we do things like that or we we continue
00:42:57
behavior if we get benefits. And it sounds quite simple and and in theory it is simple but that sort of introspection
00:43:05
well what are the benefits of eating three pies a day drinking a dozen beers you know most people that I've come
00:43:11
across in my work will tell you there's no benefits >> but if there was no benefits we'd stop
00:43:17
the behavior. So if we can be brave enough and so to for your listeners or people viewing this and I say this like
00:43:24
with so much respect and love because you know I can speak from experience and and education that that you know really
00:43:33
look ask yourself the question what are the benefits am I getting from this and to give you an example I did this with
00:43:39
alcohol if you ask me how could a how could if I walked into an AA room now and said uh I used to go from can't have
00:43:47
a sip without ending up having a dozen beers to now socially being responsible enjoying alcohol no more than three
00:43:55
drinks probably on average one every 3 months they would tell you I'm a liar
00:44:00
like a hand on heart they would tell you I'm full of [ __ ] >> but I sit here today because I I listed
00:44:06
200 benefits of why I drank like 200 I went for a walk in a national park yeah bit of a weirdo went for a walk in a
00:44:15
national park took me four hours I listed 200 benefits of alcohol. I came up with such things as I can speak my
00:44:21
mind. I love music more. I feel carefree. You know, there's three benefits. All these little things, some
00:44:28
of them are easy to find. Some of them actually really difficult. And I think it's those unconscious, subconscious
00:44:34
benefits are the ones that have got the hooks in us. And we keep returning and looping back to behavior. Um, in my
00:44:42
world, in my line of work, it's called reflective awareness. So being reflective enough to find all the
00:44:48
benefits and if somebody was struggling with overeating or they're addicted to
00:44:52
sugar, savory stuff, I don't know, or all of the above, maybe Tim Tams, you know, going to Tim Tam Island on a
00:44:58
Friday night, watching Netflix, whole packet, they're getting benefits. And if
00:45:02
you can highlight the benefits, we can look to other areas of our life which will give us the exact same benefit to
00:45:09
the same degree. And that's what I did with alcohol. I realized there are other
00:45:14
ways in my life I could get the same benefits that were not related to alcohol. And that's kind of like the
00:45:20
first thing I would suggest. What are the benefits you're getting from these
00:45:24
behaviors in your life? Carl Jung, the like a I'm sure you know Carl Yung, great psychologist, psychiatrist. He has
00:45:31
a very famous saying, well, he has lots of them, but one I really like. He said,
00:45:34
"Where your fear lies, so too does your path." as but the thing is people get a
00:45:39
when they when they figure out what it is and then we can be afraid >> to step forward and and you know
00:45:45
challenge our the old paradigm our old behavior. >> God I went on a bit mate hopefully.
00:45:50
>> No no no that's good. I'm just um >> step the um the list of 200 that's a
00:45:56
lot. It's a detailed list >> mate and it's interesting it's really
00:46:00
hard like initially it was like white knuckling. It's like mate this is brutal. I got to about 50 and then all
00:46:06
of a sudden the floodgates open. You know, you know, there's so much that we
00:46:10
know about ourselves and on the other side of what we don't know is a mystery.
00:46:16
>> It's literally that. But if we uncover it, it's like, oh my god, it's like the
00:46:20
unknown. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, is this this sort of time like in
00:46:24
your late 20s that you sort of fell into what you're doing now, which is like um
00:46:27
like a personal trainer for the mind and body, really, isn't it? >> Yeah. I went down to Canterbury
00:46:33
University and the Christ Church College of Education. That was kind of the next
00:46:37
step in my my life and I started studying psychology. Um that was my first I didn't get a degree then. I [ __ ]
00:46:44
the bed for one of a better term. So again like love the party the the uni lifestyle but it was my first exposure
00:46:53
to to the mind and and the enormity of the mind and all the different theories and concepts and that I must admit I
00:47:01
reckon that's where the seeds were planted and they took root. Um thankfully they've flourished in the
00:47:07
last 10 years but and that was the that was the the start of it. But I I always had well not always but I had an
00:47:16
affinity to to fitness and things like that. And I saw friends of mine were earning money uh training people and and
00:47:23
things like that. So that that started a 20 year career in the in the fitness industry of which it's been glorious
00:47:31
like absolutely incredible what I what I've been able to do and >> the impact I've been able to make with
00:47:38
other people and not dissimilar to anybody else in this industry. It's it's
00:47:41
a service-based industry but I think if people can do it well oh god you can make such an impact bro and that impact
00:47:48
we we never get to see. >> Yeah. You know, we really don't. You know, you change one person's life, it
00:47:54
ripples out to their marriage, to their children, to their workplace. And this kind of ecological ripple effect is
00:48:00
really quite incredible. But I mean, argue we never really get to see those >> results. Well, yeah. I mean, it's so
00:48:06
gratifying. You're helping people be the best version of themselves. >> Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:10
>> How much How much of what you do is physical versus mental? >> Now, it's probably biased towards the
00:48:16
mental stuff. like a majority of my work is as a mental performance coach. >> Um so it's it's probably 75 possibly 80
00:48:25
20 I reckon. >> Wow. >> Um but you know own a gym and and um uh have a a franchise of our facility and
00:48:34
one about to open in Adelaide. So it's growing >> but it's a unique model and and um mean
00:48:41
years ago they used to believe you know the mind and body was separate. you know, you train the mind over here. You
00:48:45
go and see a psychologist or a therapist and work on the bells and whistles upstairs and you go over here to the gym
00:48:50
and you work on the body. But in 2025, we have a greater understanding that the and I mean, you know this as a as an
00:48:56
athlete in the endurance sports, it's a synergy. It's a synthesis of the two. If
00:49:01
you train the mind, you're going to indirectly affect the body. And if you train the body, you you know, and I
00:49:07
think runners get that, you know, you run, you get clarity, you get focus, you get creative. Um, and it's everything
00:49:14
that's not running is the benefit of running. >> That's a No, that's a great
00:49:19
>> explanation. Hold on. Is that Was that Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:22
>> Yeah, it does. >> Yeah. Um Oh, so you you ended up going back into the military. E uh you were
00:49:29
accepted for direct entry to the SAS. What does that mean? >> That's right. Yeah. Oh, that's so that's
00:49:35
the high one of the highlights of my life, Tom. And I love talking about this. >> When was this in your 30s?
00:49:40
>> Yeah, I was 37. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You're an old man at this point. So
00:49:43
you've been like 20 20 something years out of the Navy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:47
>> No. Well, no. 15 years. Yeah. 13 years. 13 years. Be close. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:51
>> Yeah. So, what does what does that mean? Direct entry to the SAS. >> Well, what they did is they I don't know
00:49:55
if they do it anymore, but they created a pathway that um you know, people like you and I could could have a go at going
00:50:03
into the regiment. Um obviously there's a lot of hoops to jump through. It's not
00:50:08
quite as simple as if you were in the regular force. Um but it is they created a pathway and
00:50:14
I and I a friend of mine who was a fireman here in Oakuckland. He um I was working with him with some um training
00:50:20
and stuff online so he could go in and I remember saying to him, "Mate, what are
00:50:24
they?" cuz I always thought the SAS were like they were like gods, you know, when
00:50:29
I was in the military and on deployment, you'd we'd see them come on board the
00:50:33
frigot for a a shower or something like that, come out of the jungle and and I just watch them and got to like train
00:50:39
with them a couple of times and I'd be like, "Wow." Like, "Oh, I could never do
00:50:43
that, you know, like I always wanted to, but thought, oh no, that's never they'll
00:50:47
never take somebody like me." And um and I'm working with my mate online and and
00:50:52
then I just thought, wow, that's so random because he I used to think he's
00:50:56
not that great. Like he's a great bloke, but I'm thinking, mate, you got more
00:50:59
chance of flying in the air. You're not going to. And he started to go through
00:51:02
and I thought, oh [ __ ] if he could do that. Like I wonder if they would. And I
00:51:05
thought, I'm quite old and I got a business and I've got 742 children. Like
00:51:10
they're not going to they're not going to take me on board. But one day I
00:51:13
thought I'll send an email. And you know, you never know. mate, within 24 hours an email came back. Yeah. Like
00:51:20
come to um uh there was like a YMCA, you know, we just we'll do a fitness test
00:51:25
first, sort of see where you're at basically if we we'll go on from there.
00:51:29
I thought, wow, they didn't even like they didn't care that I was 37 or I
00:51:33
would have been 36 then. And so I yeah, flew over, did the fitness test and actually did really well. I was in great
00:51:39
shape. And I remember talking to the recruiter and I said, "Oh, you know, I'm
00:51:43
36. I mean, that's probably the guys are probably not going to take me. And and I
00:51:48
mean, what he said next stuck with me forever. He said, "Mate, people in their
00:51:52
late 30s make our best soldiers." He said, "They're brilliant." He said, "No,
00:51:57
if you cut the mustard." He's like, "You cut the mustard." I thought, "Oh, mate,
00:52:00
I'm here to cut mustard." So, I'm I've got the pickle and the corn beef
00:52:04
sandwiches on. I'm here for the mustard. So over over the next 18 months, I kept
00:52:09
flying backwards and forwards and jumping through all the hoops that they were throwing at me um in a in a in an
00:52:16
effort to um go into the regiment. And um yeah, got exposed to that world over an 18-month period. And it is it's it's
00:52:24
it's the to be very clear like I never I never went into the SAS getting to the
00:52:28
point that I did with the recruiting, you know, is even considered not even just starting. But the fact that I I you
00:52:35
know, little old me who's a sort of in my mind then a nobody from nowhere. I I
00:52:40
got a chance to spread some mustard and and have a go and and I loved it and they were the New Zealand Defense Force
00:52:46
were brilliant. They were really supportive and um but it was at the sort of one of the final interviews where I
00:52:52
realized I couldn't have the two lives and I hadn't asked that quality question
00:52:57
really early on. In my mind, I thought I could do 3 months or something with because somebody told me you you sort of
00:53:06
work in cycles. And I thought, I could do 3 months at the regiment and then I'll come home and do 3 months at the
00:53:11
gym with my family. And it was just like, oh, this is I've arrived. And I remember just getting laughed at like,
00:53:18
no, that's not that's not how it works. Like you you're you're on call or you're
00:53:22
in Oakuckland and you know, your life's pretty much that's it. you're dedicated
00:53:26
to to to the job role. >> So, I I made the hard decision. They gave me >> 24 hours to to decide if I was going to
00:53:35
continue and I decided to yeah to to continue with my life on the Sunshine Coast. It's a great conversation that
00:53:41
that caused that change of direction though with a guy, his name's Ben Ai Pen, who was a New Zealand Muay Thai
00:53:48
kickboxing coach for about 10 years. I had a great conversation with him and he uh encouraged me to to make the decision
00:53:55
to to go back home, go back to the Sunshine Coast. >> How's that training? The SAS training.
00:54:02
Do they have like a version of sort of hell week? >> Yeah, they they do they have a 9-day
00:54:06
selection process and that's literally considered like just starting >> like you're not even you don't even have
00:54:13
a foot in the door as far as I'm aware. Um, and then you go on to do I think
00:54:18
it's about 18 months to 2 years after that. The last time I heard I think the
00:54:22
New Zealand government, I mean, they invest over a million dollars into each soldier.
00:54:26
>> Wow. >> So, yeah, which is and it probably be more now, I'd argue, mate. So, they
00:54:31
>> it's quite indepth and their standards are very high um around the the fitness
00:54:35
testing and the timings and things like that. So, um yeah, like I said, as a as a a mature adult, take that with a grain
00:54:44
of salt. Uh yeah, I cut the mustard for the very short period that I was involved with him. Yeah.
00:54:48
>> Oh, well done. Were you like the old man there? >> Sorry. >> Surrounded by Yeah.
00:54:52
>> 100% I was. But I I tell you just like one little cool thing and like for
00:54:56
people that like this is this again just a remarkable experience. There was a guy
00:55:02
there, another guy who was a direct entry and he was an accountant and that dude looked like a charted accountant.
00:55:08
You know, no disrespect to accountants, but I could see him in Lyra having an an
00:55:12
almond milk latte on a Saturday on his bike. He was one of those fellas. But his story stuck with me forever cuz we
00:55:18
all said like, you know how we had we had commandos on there, Navy fellas, army boys, and then there was him and I
00:55:25
and he oh I oh no, there was a prison warden. He he [ __ ] the bed early on, but
00:55:29
there was an accountant and and me and we became quite good friends. And we were talking about how we came about
00:55:35
this journey and his story is just the best. He said he was in a tower working at I think it was ASB building. I don't
00:55:42
know if it's there anymore, but late at night and he's up on the whatever the
00:55:45
20th floor and he's crunching numbers and counting beans as they do. >> And he says he was one of the only ones
00:55:50
in the office and the security fellow was downstairs and the story was just the best. And he said, "I was sitting
00:55:55
there one night and [ __ ] spreadsheets and Excel and he's into it and then all
00:56:00
he hears was this helicopter and he's like, "Fuck is that?" So he's gone over to the
00:56:08
window and there's just all these dudes decked out in black like repelling down
00:56:15
the side of a building from a helicopter and he's like oh like terrorists. So
00:56:20
he's on the phone to the security fell down say terrorists like or something
00:56:25
someone's attacking the building and the security gu I didn't know you were here.
00:56:28
No no no no that's the New Zealand army. That's the army. They're training or
00:56:32
something cuz it's like midnight or something. And then he said after that moment, he was like, "Whatever they're
00:56:37
doing, like I want to do that." And and mate, he was incredible. He smashed us
00:56:43
on the beep test and the pack runs and everything. And I just I'll never forget
00:56:47
it. Just one night work late and then he's like, I just whatever they're
00:56:51
doing, I want to do that. >> It looked like they went >> Sorry to interrupt. JJ's going to bring
00:56:55
in the water jug. >> Oh, cool. >> Yeah, >> these are great yarns.
00:57:01
>> Hope that's okay. >> Oh, no, mate. That's awesome. Sorry to
00:57:03
interrupt. >> No, you're right. We've been going almost an hour. >> Wow.
00:57:07
>> It's gone by so quick. >> Tella, this water is the most incredible
00:57:11
water in Australia. >> It's so warm in here. Do you want to put the econ on a little bit?
00:57:15
>> We could do it. Yeah. How's your body temp? >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm I'm still nervous.
00:57:21
>> Oh, thank you, Jay. So nice. >> Amazing. >> That is going to blow cold on you. So,
00:57:28
it might get to a point where you want to turn it off again. That's why leave
00:57:30
it on. But it's so hot here. >> Thank you so much. I hope it's okay, Dom,
00:57:38
>> mate. It's awesome. Oh, thank you. It's [ __ ] great. >> Excellent. So excellent.
00:57:42
>> Oh, you're very kind. Thank Thanks, JJ. >> And don't worry, I'm looking after your
00:57:45
wife. >> Oh, I was going to say, yeah, she she calls in. Is she all right? I'm not
00:57:48
running a muck out there. >> She's enjoying listening to you. >> She has she learned anything new?
00:57:52
>> Yeah. Yeah, I know. Am I going to get hung after this? Opening my big mouth.
00:57:56
>> Is that on? >> I think so. >> Oh, yeah. I can start feeling a little
00:58:01
little breeze here. Yeah. >> Okay. Apologies for the interruption. Sorry about that.
00:58:05
>> Oh, good. >> Okay. >> Yep. And we're still rolling. >> Yeah, we're still rolling.
00:58:13
>> So, do do you think uh you were born mentally tough or is it something that
00:58:16
you've had to work on and build? >> Um, another great question, Dom. I I
00:58:21
think it's I think we have some innate abilities and I think whilst we we might have a
00:58:30
propensity to have some you know mental toughness, some resilience, all those sort of buzzwords, I think it's built I
00:58:37
think I really do mate. Like that's my honest opinion. Um because I've spent
00:58:42
more time being not mentally tough, you know? I would consider myself uh historically like a bit weak to be
00:58:52
honest. Like I had a real sort of um a bias towards quitting. Like I'd quit a
00:58:58
lot when I was younger. Um yeah. Yeah. I think and I think over time I've developed and forged that that
00:59:07
you know what you refer to as mental toughness. So I think I think it's developed and built is my is my answer.
00:59:12
That's such a good answer because it it means um I mean it'd be easy to write it
00:59:16
off if if you said I was born with it, you'd be like, "Okay, well, I was born
00:59:19
hard like Gogggins." Yeah. No, not not at all. >> No, there's, you know, we've mentioned
00:59:23
Gogins a few times, but there there are a huge amount of parallels between you and him, not just the um the challenges
00:59:29
and stuff, but you know, um brutal upbringing, >> um overweight and depressed.
00:59:35
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and then transformed to the person he is now. There's like so many parallels.
00:59:40
Yeah, I agree. And and you know, similar, he was in the Navy, I was in the Navy. Um, and look, I do draw a lot
00:59:46
of parallels from him. I I wasn't a big fan initially, but I think that was probably a little bit of tall Poppy
00:59:52
being a bit of a wanker to be honest. And I think if I look now, >> um, I think he really is quite quite
00:59:58
inspirational. I would argue it'd be difficult to maintain, you know, is that
01:00:04
character, that persona, how he is, you know, off camera and things like that. It would be so hard to walk around like
01:00:09
stay hard, be hard like all the time like in in the in the in the dairy down at the IG at the coals get hard. It's
01:00:16
like well really I don't know I I nearly raced against him in Hawaii actually. I
01:00:21
don't know if you've ever heard of the Hurt 100 >> um gnarly trail ultramarathon and he was
01:00:26
meant to race. I was so excited like nervous and you know anxious but I was so excited. I thought oh man if I beat
01:00:33
him my god. Um and he was there but he was injured but he came to the um the race brief and stuff. I felt sorry for
01:00:40
him. He got swamped. People just and I I totally get it. I stayed away and just sort of watched and observed the Enigma.
01:00:49
But yeah, I was gutted. I wanted to race against him. >> He he he doesn't seem to have good um um
01:00:55
life balance. like he just he just seems to be training all the time >> and just making his life as unpleasant
01:01:02
and as uncomfortable as possible. >> And it's like yeah, he seeks the inconvenience, the the the discomfort,
01:01:08
you know, the adversity. But look, I I I get it. Like I I I oddly understand it.
01:01:14
Like I really do. I part of me sympathizes and and um and I'm very compassionate, you know, to to what he's
01:01:22
doing. You know, I understood a while ago that compassion means to suffer together.
01:01:28
>> You know, passion is a French word. Passion means to suffer. And if I am
01:01:32
compassionate >> or or like if I'm passionate about running, it means like I'm I love to
01:01:37
suffer when I run. >> Um but if I'm compassionate, I'll I'll suffer with you. So I think, you know, I
01:01:43
am compassionate to what David Gogggins does and his message cuz I think >> on a much grander and exaggerated scale,
01:01:50
he he impacts a lot of people in a positive way. I mean, he probably got equal amount of haters and stuff like
01:01:55
that, but I would say that's probably a good thing. >> Yeah. I I I say to people, the only way
01:02:01
you can avoid um having haters is is to do nothing. Do nothing, say nothing. >> That's right. Yeah. It's much harder to
01:02:08
be the the man in the arena, isn't it? >> Oh, so so true. And I suppose people
01:02:13
love that critical stance or some people do, you know, but essentially it's, you
01:02:17
know, I'm not religious and I'm not biblical, but I I love that little quote. I remember it from from school,
01:02:23
but it was like, you know, let he who cast the first stone be without sin. >> It's like people are judging others, but
01:02:30
I mean ultimately they're judging themselves or the part of themselves they dislike, but it's easy to throw
01:02:34
some [ __ ] at old mate who's in the arena flogging his guts out. >> Well, I'm such a wanker. Maybe.
01:02:40
>> Well, someone someone online saying, "Oh, oh, yeah, Jamie's a flog. He didn't
01:02:44
break the world record for the most press ups." It's like, "Well, what have
01:02:46
you done? >> What have you been doing for the last 12 months? >> Just let me know how many push-up Oh, it
01:02:51
was funny. One of my old instructors, uh, he was an instructor at the Navy diving school, and I remember having a
01:02:56
go at the Navy dive course the first time. I couldn't even do one pull-up. I
01:03:00
had this fantasy in my mind that I just rock up and do the required pull-ups, which I think at that stage is maybe
01:03:05
like eight or 10 or something. I didn't even do one. And I remember doing like
01:03:08
the legs going like this trying to get up there. And all I got was, "Oh yeah,
01:03:12
fat boy. Don't, you know, don't dare get your chin over the bar and then, you
01:03:15
know, piss off. Go back to the chef's school." I was like, "Ah." And then when
01:03:18
I got the when I did 4,267, cuz we're relatively good friends now, I I messaged him on Facebook. I said, "Oh,
01:03:25
old fat boy doesn't do too bad nowadays." E old steady and the breeze couldn't get
01:03:31
any back then. But I said, "I tell you what, I get a few now." >> Yeah. Funny.
01:03:35
>> So what what about resilience? Resilience is a big sort of buzz word these days and um everyone's um aware of
01:03:41
the importance of it. Um is it something that we can only learn through suffering
01:03:45
or is there some other way it can be it can be built? >> Yeah. Again I think I think that that
01:03:50
compound effect is really helpful with this. You know I think brick by brick experience by experience
01:03:57
>> uh builds without sounding too cliche a bit of a wall of resilience you know or
01:04:01
an igloo if you want to build an igloo. I don't know. But I think I think it is
01:04:05
block by block, you know, experience by experience. Uh I can't remember her name
01:04:10
off the top of my head. Uh but she was the New Zealand SAS uh psychologist. >> Oh yeah, I know you mean. I did an event
01:04:19
with her in Christ Church the other week. >> Yeah. >> She's married to Jamie Panel, former
01:04:23
guy. >> That's right. That's right. I read her book and um and I apologize for not
01:04:27
remembering her name. Um oh, it's on the tip of my tongue. Anyway, I mean, she
01:04:30
she shares an insight about resilience and, you know, I think I think there's
01:04:35
lots of different definitions, but she said it's, you know, basically one's
01:04:39
ability to focus on the the main thing before you get to an opportunity to focus on what is considered the main
01:04:46
thing. So, if you think about marathon running, if you're prepping for, you know, one of these big marathon events,
01:04:52
it's focusing on the main thing, which would be your your running, your, you
01:04:56
know, sleep, hydration, nutrition. and that would be considered the main thing before being able to focus on the main
01:05:03
thing which is the marathon. >> And so I think that's quite a whilst it
01:05:06
sounds a little complex, I think it's also quite a simple um definition or like anything in the psychological
01:05:13
world, they're all theories, ideas, and concepts. Like it's very hard to find
01:05:17
tangible definitions of things. But I I I think that's essentially it. I've come
01:05:23
to understand that mental toughness, which is similar to resilience, is about one's ability to stay focused.
01:05:29
>> That's it. Like, it's such a simple definition, but so difficult in
01:05:34
application. Like, you think in 2025, everything's fighting for our attention.
01:05:40
You know, it's if it's not, you know, social media and the digital platforms
01:05:44
and, you know, glorious and great and powerful podcasts like this one, everything's trying to grab our
01:05:49
attention. And the mentally tough ones have the ability to mitigate that and stay focused.
01:05:55
>> And I mean, humans can only focus for about 9 seconds at the moment, you know,
01:05:59
science tells us, which is worse than a goldfish. So, if you can be mentally tough and resilient and stay focused,
01:06:05
you know, that's a competitive advantage. That is literally a competitive advantage.
01:06:10
>> I've I've heard you um and other podcasts talk about um the unbreakable
01:06:14
mind. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. What daily habits, you know, keep Yeah. keep that alive for you?
01:06:20
Uh, are there any non-negotiables on a daily basis? I >> feel like I'm getting myself in the [ __ ]
01:06:26
here with all these quotes in there. I have an unbreakable mind. Meanwhile, I'm
01:06:29
I'm a mess. You're not a mess. In all honesty, it's it is what you just said
01:06:35
then. I I love that, mate. I can't credit this to anybody, and it's still
01:06:38
in my head. And um so I apologize if I'm stealing somebody's quote uh and I'm not
01:06:43
referencing them but you know we don't rise to the level of our goals. We fall
01:06:48
to the level of our daily protocols and habits. So you can set any type of goal.
01:06:52
I say I'm going to have the most resilient mind. I've got an indomitable
01:06:56
will. I've got a tenacious resolve. I'm unbreakable. I'm you know all these
01:07:01
wonderful cliche things. But that's easy. I'm going to make a million dollars. Easy. you know, I'm going to
01:07:09
have a property portfolio. I'm going to run a marathon. So easy. But it's the
01:07:13
daily protocols and habits that move the needle from possibility to probability.
01:07:20
And so in answer to your question, it really is daily practice. Like I I do breath work almost every day. It' be
01:07:28
like 99% of the time. And that's kind of my meditative practice. Do it for 20
01:07:33
minutes. I reflect every day. every client interaction I have and even quite possibly this podcast I'll reflect um I
01:07:41
think it was Socrates that said you know a life not reflected on is a life not worth living
01:07:46
>> and I've found great great like um wisdom and power and insight and daily
01:07:52
reflection you know what went well what didn't go well you know what can I do
01:07:56
better next time what what you know if if I did do something good how can I do that even better next time where have I
01:08:03
experienced this before um So this reflection has really helped me to I suppose have a mindset that's much
01:08:12
stronger than my emotions and I think that's really important. I think it was
01:08:16
Tiger Woods who said emotions are really great except when you play golf. It's
01:08:20
like Warren Buffett said emotions are great except with money. And I'm like yeah like emotions we can't run away
01:08:25
from them. We we we surge with them. Like I'm a highly emotive creature. [ __ ] cry if the wind changes
01:08:31
direction. But it's it's having a mindset that's more dominant than the
01:08:36
emotions to keep them level to keep them regulated. >> Uh not to be a robot but just to have a
01:08:41
bit more governance and you know don't do dumb things when we get emotion. >> This reflection piece is that is that
01:08:46
written or is just something internally? >> I definitely write it. If if it's if we
01:08:50
don't write it we forget it and that's the best way I could explain it. So and
01:08:55
I um I do that regularly. Like it's a massive part of my life without sounding
01:09:00
like a complete wanker. My wife and I once a week we we we reflect on our marriage and on our business and it's
01:09:08
brilliant. It's like what's working well, you know, what's not working well?
01:09:12
Um what went well? What worked well? Uh sorry, what didn't work well? So ask
01:09:17
about five questions and it's great cuz we'll be like, you know, we're not
01:09:20
talking. We're not, you know, having intimacy. We're not going out. We're
01:09:25
not, you know, we it's just all work or we and then it's like, okay, so next
01:09:28
week let's do a little better. Let's schedule something. It's um so yeah, it
01:09:33
it I find it really helpful. >> Yeah. >> And it makes sense like the the grass
01:09:36
grows where you water it. >> 100% beautifully said. Yeah. And and I think you're right where we where we
01:09:41
throw that attention that's what we're going to experience. So >> So when you're at breaking point like
01:09:46
whether it's a 20, you know, hour 20 of some world record attempt or a bad day
01:09:51
in life like is there specific selft talk or strategy that gets you through? >> Yeah. Like gin and tonic and stuff. No,
01:09:58
no, no, no, no, no. >> There's the old Jamie. >> There was the old Oh my god, that was a
01:10:03
salty sea dog Jamie. No, no, he didn't do that anymore. Um, >> sorry dog. I went off on the wrong path.
01:10:11
>> So, what was that like? >> Well, when when when you're struggling
01:10:13
whether it's like in the middle of a physical challenge like a, you know, pull-up world record attempt or a 100k
01:10:19
run or whether it's just like a bad day in business, like is there like a strategy or selft talk that gets you
01:10:25
through? >> Oh, great question. I I've learned in my experience um and you you probably
01:10:30
talked to this so well uh with your with your um running experience and stuff Dom
01:10:35
the business but the the I think it's a it's it's a whole heap of everything I've
01:10:43
come to learn that it's it's like having a backpack like a little bit m like
01:10:47
Dora's mate whatever that was it Diego Diego >> Dora the explorer >> yeah like yeah like the marry version um
01:10:55
a little backpack of resources and tools cuz I think things work until they don't. You know, if you do I've, you
01:11:02
know, as I alluded to earlier, the longest, excuse me, event I ever did was 18 days
01:11:10
or basically 80ks a day for 18 days. And mate, like, you know, music might work for a little bit. I'd have Johnny Cash
01:11:19
cranking, bit of Neil Young, bit of Pink Floyd, just loving it. And next minute I'm hating it. It's like, all right,
01:11:25
I've got to find something else. Um, and I get all the fluffy performance psychology things and um, but I think
01:11:33
ultimately if I could narrow it down to one reliable and dependable tool when when like the quitting narrative starts
01:11:42
or the the stinking thinking or the shitty committee or however people want to the gremlins or the demons on their
01:11:48
shoulder. I think being in the moment is really helpful, you know, and asking ourselves, you know, be where my feet
01:11:55
are. Like where are my feet right now? Like being right there. Cuz I can't be
01:11:59
in the future thinking about how [ __ ] this is and I've still got 100ks to run.
01:12:03
I can't be in the past ruminate ruminating about the dumb [ __ ] I did as a kid and the people I've hurt or but if
01:12:09
I'm where my feet are right now, I'm right here. So I'm right here and then I
01:12:14
can win each moment at a time. And sometimes, you know, when it's really difficult, you know, whether the kids
01:12:21
are playing up or something's critical in business and a decision's got to be
01:12:27
made, you know, being right there and think, I've just got to win this next moment. And sometimes like with the
01:12:33
pull-ups, you know, when you're doing pull-ups every minute on the minute for
01:12:37
24 hours or doing burpees every minute, on the minute for 24 hours, it's I've
01:12:42
just got to win this next moment cuz quitting >> happens in 1 second. And I've quit so
01:12:48
many times, Dom, and and it and interestingly enough, you know, science shows us people and I can speak to this
01:12:56
from experience. I can quit on something, five minutes later, I'm good to go again. But it that happened in one
01:13:02
second. Oh, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I just need to lie down.
01:13:05
You know, my knees, my shoulder, my [ __ ] prostate, like whatever. Like, I just maybe not prostate, but um you
01:13:12
know, I'm done. And then 5 minutes later, it's like ah I could go again,
01:13:17
but it's too late. You know, you've lost the moment. And so sometimes being
01:13:21
really present and and saying like be where my feet are right now gives me an opportunity to say, I've just got to win
01:13:27
this 1 second moment. That's it. And sometimes that's literally what it is
01:13:31
for an alcoholic, a drug addict. It's like be be where your feet are. >> You going to drink that beer or are you
01:13:38
going to, you know, we're going to just quickly knock it off the shelf or tip it
01:13:41
down the the sink, you know, win win that moment. >> You know, re reframe it, reset it and
01:13:47
go. >> Yeah, >> that's such good advice. >> Oh, thanks, Tom.
01:13:51
>> That's that's really >> I wrote that down on my hand, mate. For
01:13:54
an occasion such as this, >> how how do you um how do you feel after you quit?
01:13:59
the days and weeks afterwards. >> Ah, awful. Awful. Yeah. Like really awful.
01:14:04
>> Like like like just shame or internal anger or >> Yeah. I think it's all of those things.
01:14:10
I I don't deal with it well at all. One of the most difficult ones we I don't
01:14:15
know if you're familiar with the CrossFit world, Dom, there's um I mean there's a whole heap of sort of they
01:14:20
call them wads and workouts and things like that. They have a series of workouts called a hero workout and
01:14:25
they're they're historically like really difficult. And there's one called Murf
01:14:30
and it's a memoriam workout to a um a Navy Seal who was killed. And so the workout consists of a onem run and you
01:14:39
do 100 pull-ups, 200 push-ups, 300 squats, and then finish with a onem run. And you do that with a weighted vest
01:14:45
like what you were talking about before. I think it's weighted at just shy of 10
01:14:48
kilos. So it's about 9 kilos or something like that. Um, generally a normal person will get that done in
01:14:56
about an hour. You know, elite individuals will be anywhere from 40 minutes to an hour. And me and a really
01:15:02
good friend of mine did um the Murf workout for 24 hours non-stop, of which my friend my friend got the
01:15:12
world record. But back on the Sunshine Coast, excuse me, uh I was kind of identified and referred to as Yeah. like
01:15:20
the the the Kiwi version of David Gogggins. And so in the media I was getting this little bit of exposure.
01:15:28
Jamie's going to break the oh he's going for this and he's raising money and like
01:15:31
I loved it. I was like yeah that's right pop the spotlight if you don't mind and
01:15:36
just adjusting the spotlight on me and my mate was really humble and he just you know he just came along. We trained
01:15:43
together. Um really humble man actually beautiful salt of the earth fell and um about halfway through it, short of a
01:15:52
long story, I was just cramping everywhere. We trained so well together. We were I would argue he was fitter and
01:15:59
and more talented than me. Um and I was kind of riding his coattails and I'd
01:16:04
identified I was like, man, he's doing really well, this guy Russ. Um, but I
01:16:08
still well and truly thought I had it in the bank. And just over about halfway, I
01:16:13
was just a cramping mess from my quads to my chest and eyelashes. Like everything was cramping. And and I got
01:16:20
to about 12 of these Murfs. So we done 12 of them and I pulled the pin and I cuz I started falling behind Russ and I
01:16:28
was actually starting to hold him up and he was sort of hanging back to support me. Um, which was beautiful. like I was
01:16:36
just like such a great guy um to do it together, you know, he was about the Wii and not the me, whereas I was
01:16:42
unfortunately a bit more about the me and less the Wii, which was a learning for me.
01:16:46
>> And um I quit and ended up on the massage table and I was all dramatic and
01:16:52
you know, and he carried on and it was one of the greatest displays of athleticism, Dom, I've ever seen. Like I
01:17:00
I shared with you what one Murph is and he did something like 21 of them back to
01:17:06
back and the last one and it ended up being like 60ks of running um you know whatever a few thousand pull-ups and you
01:17:13
know thousands of push-ups, thousands of squats and he looked the same on the last round as he did at the first and he
01:17:23
120% deserved all the accolades. that particular, you know, quitting experience was horrible because I stayed
01:17:33
for the rest of the event and watched him >> um take the spoils and he deserved them.
01:17:38
He did so well. >> What did you learn about yourself? >> Well, good question. Um
01:17:44
I what did I learn? I learned that those experiences were such a potent learning environment
01:17:53
>> to I mean people might argue and maybe I sort of spoke bad about myself just
01:17:59
then. I I I do have a great level of humility but I perhaps could have had a bit more um as well. And uh I I think I
01:18:09
did well to stay. Um again I I actually didn't want to stay. I was like I got to
01:18:14
get out of here. And and I think it was my wife that said, "You can't do that.
01:18:17
>> This is this is your punishment." >> Yeah. Yeah. You will sit down and you
01:18:21
will do as you're told and you will watch. >> Think about what you want.
01:18:25
>> Yeah. You think about your actions, young man. Yeah. You got to be careful
01:18:28
what you wish for. So um so yeah, I think that was a real eye opener to to really embrace those opportunities cuz
01:18:36
Yeah. I mean, if you're not if we're not learning >> um we're too comfortable.
01:18:41
>> Yeah. >> What um what are you doing next? Oh, great question. >> You're you're going to think that that
01:18:48
um so you've created a rod for your own back and that you've done all these
01:18:51
things. So I suppose people are always asking you what's next. Yeah. >> So there which creates a bit of pressure
01:18:55
for you that you you need a what's next? >> Yeah, 100%. Look, I I I have this
01:19:01
delicate um dance between, you know, my body failing me. I heard you talk about your knees. I was thinking, "Oh god,
01:19:08
yeah, I'm singing from the same song sheet." Like the the the specialist told
01:19:12
me the other day, he said, "Oh, yeah, definitely a full knee reconstruction."
01:19:15
He put or she put an X-ray of an 80-year-old's knee and then got mine. I went, "Do you see any difference?" And I
01:19:22
said, "No." I said, "Do they my knees?" And he said, "No, they're not your
01:19:26
knees." He said, "That's your knee and that's old mate's knee." Whoever old
01:19:29
mate is. And I was like, "Ah, that's not great." So uh I run with a really bad
01:19:34
knee and um just had my first quarter cortisone actually in my hip which was that was character building. Um so yeah
01:19:42
I just managed the discomfort but I I don't think it will stop me. It's just a
01:19:45
case of yeah just managing discomfort really but running 400 km in 5 days. Uh so basically two marathons
01:19:54
a day for 5 days with four friends of mine >> uh for a a charity back on the Sunshine
01:20:00
Coast. We run from uh Warana on the Sunshine Coast to Agnes Water um in the middle of summer. So that's about 5
01:20:08
weeks from today. So haven't run for a couple of years. I've just sort of
01:20:12
pumped weights and eating chicken and broccoli and almonds and trying to get massive and strong and so yeah, running
01:20:19
around like a small block of apartments is not great, mate. It's quite hard.
01:20:22
>> Yeah. What do you weigh? >> Oh, I'm just shy of 90. So about 80 86,
01:20:27
I think. Yeah. >> Yeah. But yeah, it's like a small block of flats, mate. I don't look like a
01:20:31
runner at all. I'm an ultramarathon runners. It's like Yeah, you are, aren't
01:20:34
you? What would you say your best and worst habits are? >> Oh, best and worst habits.
01:20:42
Um, best is like manners. I think I'm very polite. I'm very respectful. Um, you know, as my nanny used to say,
01:20:57
manners maketh the man. >> Mhm. >> Um, still to this day, you know, I, you
01:21:01
know, open doors for ladies. I, you know, all those basic things I think a lot of us were taught. So, I was
01:21:07
fortunate to get taught that really early on. And manners just interactions with people,
01:21:13
>> you know, whether it's at the bank or at the supermarket, you know, I think goes
01:21:16
a long way. So, I think that's probably, you know, and couple that with a little
01:21:20
bit of warmth. I'm generally a sort of warm creature. >> Uh, bad habits. I still have uh I've got
01:21:27
the the sort of the complimentary opposite to that. So I you know in very extreme cases I probably get a little
01:21:35
angry too swiftly and I I don't like that and so I work quite hard on that. I've come to understand with my studies.
01:21:43
I'm back at university as well for the last few years, but studying behavioral
01:21:47
science. I understand that we've got, you know, unconscious and subconscious
01:21:51
patterns of behavior and thinking. Um, and they tend to rear their ugly head at the worst of times. It's not when you're
01:21:57
feeling good and you've had a sleep in and you've eaten well and you've
01:22:00
exercised, then you're feeling positive. It's actually the the opposite of that.
01:22:03
So when we're running rough and we're overwhelmed and stressed and agitated
01:22:07
and discontent, these unconscious patterns will come up. And so, you know, things like best way I could explain is
01:22:14
like road rage and stuff like that. Like I'll wind the window down and toot the
01:22:17
horn and abuse some poor innocent person for just going about their day. But that's like without sounding like a
01:22:23
proper like um substandard human. That is like so rare. Like once every 6 months, but I I don't like that. I want
01:22:31
to go through the world and just be gentle and and enjoy the world. >> Yeah.
01:22:35
>> Yeah. You've hit the nail on the head. I'm exactly the same. Like if I if I
01:22:39
lose it at someone, it's more about me than them in every single case. >> 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
01:22:46
>> Yeah. No, that's Yeah, that's me in a nutshell. Dom, >> is there a what if that keeps you up at
01:22:50
night? >> Do are are you good at parking things and moving on or >> mate? Are you a mind reader as well as a
01:22:58
as a magnificent man? Jesus. I literally had this conversation with the wife this
01:23:03
morning in the hotel at Ridges. Ridges is really nice, actually. It's a great
01:23:06
hotel, but I was like, "Oh, for the life of me." Like, I I like I said, and I'll
01:23:13
be honest, I said to you, I was really nervous coming in here, and I, you know, I know know of you. I listened to you
01:23:19
for many years, mate, and and I've seen your guests and I just, you know, I I
01:23:24
just I felt like the the like, you know, it's a real honor to be here and and and
01:23:29
a privilege to to to spend time with you, Dom, and have a great conversation, I think. But
01:23:34
>> in my head, I'm like, I'm a nobody from nowhere, you know? I still have these
01:23:39
and mate, I've had it the whole time I've been in New Zealand. I haven't
01:23:43
slept well the last few nights cuz I've been in my head going, you know, I am
01:23:47
really truly am nothing special. And mate, bless my wife, bro. She said, "Yeah, you're not anything special,
01:23:54
Jamie." That's why she actually she's malt. She's a wag. She's harsh. You
01:23:59
know, the old cash the old cashard cash. Yeah. In a in a in a bag of lemons. No, she um she said, "You're not
01:24:09
anything special. your story isn't anything special. Like people have had hardships. And I thought, "Oh jeez,
01:24:15
you're harsh girl." As I was brushing my teeth and then she said, "It's what
01:24:19
you're doing now that is what makes you special." So, you know, and and Dom's
01:24:24
having you on the podcast because of that, not because of your story or who you think you are or not are
01:24:29
>> is probably the better thing. And she said, "It's what you're doing with it
01:24:32
now." And people come to you be because of that. And and so that was really
01:24:38
lovely cuz I've spent so many days um yeah discontent about you know um this
01:24:45
morning a part of me was excited and and the other part was overwhelmed. >> That's some serious overthinking.
01:24:53
>> Yeah. You see the smoke coming out of my ears. >> Oh wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. I know it's too much man but
01:24:58
yeah that's this crazy thing I call my mind. >> Wow. Um what are your fears? What are
01:25:04
you most afraid of? Um so in this department I'm doing better. Uh like I'll face a lot of my fears like
01:25:14
I don't leave them for too long. I've become a fan of picking the hard road.
01:25:19
Interestingly enough I used to think all these endurance things were hard. You know I tell people I'd like to think oh
01:25:24
yeah know bit of a hard ass. I've done this. I've done that. You know let me
01:25:27
tell you about how incredible and difficult these things are. But I realized the irony of it is is if you
01:25:33
enjoy what you're doing, then it's not really hard. >> I thought, I suppose that makes sense.
01:25:38
But the hard thing, you know, is I understand is, you know, difficult conversations and leaving toxic
01:25:44
relationships and addressing problematic relationships with alcohol and drugs and
01:25:49
things like that. I realized that's the actual hard road and that's the road
01:25:52
that a lot of people avoid. And I was guilty of that. Um, the SAS taught me in that very short time. I fell in love
01:26:02
with their unofficial motto which is always a little further and it was based off a poem and just those simple words
01:26:09
always a little further and it comes from a poem called the golden road to Sam Rakand and uh in that poem it says
01:26:16
um we are the pilgrim's master we will always go a little further you know beyond that blue barred mountain full of
01:26:23
snow or that angry or shimmering or glimmery sea we will always go a little further and I think to yourself, you
01:26:30
know, Jamie, do you go a little further, buddy, or do you just do enough? You know, do you does the bar get set here
01:26:36
so you can, you know, achieve it, tick and flick in a one and done, or or you going to you're going to go a little
01:26:41
further? And a little further, Dom, for me now at 46 has got nothing to do with push-ups and running on trails, but
01:26:49
everything to do with, you know, doing my best to be honest. You know, I spent a lot of my life being dishonest. You
01:26:55
know, I that parallels with David Gogggins. He talks about it a lot. He was a [ __ ] artist, but so was I. You
01:27:00
know, that's how I survived as a kid with, you know, that that's, you know,
01:27:05
stealing from shops to have something to eat. Like that was dishonest and that's
01:27:09
how I spent my life. And so now the hard road for me is is trying to walk that path. Well, not trying. I I do walk that
01:27:17
path of integrity and honesty. And it's hard. >> Um, and you know, doing doing the next
01:27:25
right thing. You know, I sound like I'm on my soapbox preaching, but it's not
01:27:29
always been like that. But I've identified that that's something I was afraid of. I was afraid of upsetting
01:27:35
somebody or so then I might lie by omission or not mention something cuz I don't want to upset them. And I don't
01:27:41
want somebody to not love me or like me. >> I wanted to be like my granddad so
01:27:45
everyone would just love me. Like why do you not love me like everybody used to love my granddad? Well, I'm such a
01:27:51
lovable chap. Like why do you why do you not love me? Like God almighty. been so
01:27:55
hurt when people didn't and so I was very afraid of that like not being liked. So I probably trended towards
01:28:01
people pleasing and a yes guy and um so whilst that's probably my greatest fear
01:28:08
it's a fear that I work on >> all of the time. >> How do you work on that? Is it just
01:28:13
being mindful? >> Being mindful um being mindful of that. It's good having uh Liz my wife as a
01:28:22
like she sees the blind spots. M >> and wow, man. If if I could if I ever wanted to grow to be a human
01:28:30
being, a decent human being, then she's my frame of reference. >> And I I' I don't believe necessarily in
01:28:37
coincidences that we came together, but she is that frame of reference for me. Like I I tried to live to be an
01:28:45
individual like herself. And so she is a daily reminder of um of that. And I'm I
01:28:51
am very fortunate to to have that. Are you proud of yourself? Like when when you brush your teeth and you look
01:28:58
in the mirror, you you like you like >> it's a dim light. Michael Boué in the background.
01:29:06
Oh yes. >> No. Do you like like the fellow looking back at you in the mirror?
01:29:10
>> Oh, I'm not quite there yet, Dom. I wish I could give you the fairy tale answer,
01:29:14
man, but I you know, in the name of the truth, I'm not there yet. Uh although
01:29:19
I'm I'm getting there. the needle's moving from, you know, dissatisfied to
01:29:24
to satisfied. So, I'm probably a little bit more towards satisfied. >> Um, will I ever be there? Probably not.
01:29:31
>> Um, >> it's a moving target, isn't it? >> Oh, the bloody thing does keep moving,
01:29:34
mate. You know, Nike had it all. I don't know if it's Nike or Nike, I'm not sure.
01:29:38
But, you know, that that that old advertising slogan, there's no finish line.
01:29:42
>> And I think, you know, how how brilliant and intelligent that was, cuz that's,
01:29:46
you know, that's what I think the answer is. I think there is no finish line. and
01:29:49
the body then keeps moving. >> So, yeah, not yet, but getting there. >> I I think that's good. Yeah. Yeah. We've
01:29:57
all got to be work work progresses, don't we? The entire time. Well, your um
01:30:02
your your biological mom, like if she if she saw this or stumbled across it. Yeah. Like, what would you what would
01:30:09
you like her to her? Yeah. Would you have a message for her? >> Oh my god. Um
01:30:16
I assume she's still still alive. Yeah, I think so. I to the best of my knowledge, Tom. Uh to the best of my
01:30:22
knowledge, >> um yeah, I I I hold I hold no I definitely hold no ill feeling like no ill feeling
01:30:32
at all. Like I I don't think I would even be capable of it. Um no, I hope I hope that she has some
01:30:39
peace, you know, and and I would let her know that I love her, >> you know, if she hears this that that I
01:30:44
do love her. And I and I hope you know I oh jeez I could only imagine like I you know I've had a challenging
01:30:52
relationship with my oldest son but I mean we're we're rid as rain now. It's
01:30:57
been the old adage of the father son sort of duality that we're no different.
01:31:02
But I think, you know, if I if I left him, I think that would haunt me, you know, and I think she's probably been
01:31:08
haunted for many years, and that wouldn't be nice. And so, I hope that um she's not haunted, cuz she doesn't need
01:31:15
to be, you know, I suppose, ironically, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be
01:31:19
here. And and there wouldn't, you know, and other people wouldn't have had the,
01:31:23
you know, potential benefits of relationships with me, whether it was in fitness or psychological services. And
01:31:31
other people wouldn't have a better life if it wasn't for the fact she gave birth
01:31:35
to me in a hot pool in Roouur. Apparently, really in the geothermal might explain my my lovely beige skin.
01:31:42
But uh yeah, I popped out in amongst the sulfur and the rocks. So, you know, merry Christmas.
01:31:48
>> Um yeah, that's that's interesting. It's very very big of you. Very forgiving of
01:31:52
you because it would be easy for you just to feel indifference like like she's dead to you.
01:31:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've had Oh, don't get me wrong, I've probably had periods
01:32:00
where indifference is probably a great way of summarizing that, but uh yeah, no, no indifference, mate. No, no, I
01:32:06
got, you know, warmth in my heart and that's that's yeah, no problems. >> No problems, really.
01:32:12
>> What three words would you like family or friends to use to describe you? Say
01:32:17
Liz was out there with the kids. >> What three words would they would you like them to come up with?
01:32:24
multi-layered, multi comp multifaceted complexity. No. Yeah. No, I like I I don't know. I like again
01:32:34
I'm not meaning to to to fogg the the SAS motto, but I like the always a little further,
01:32:40
>> you know? It's I'm always looking at the next mountain, you know, what's what's
01:32:44
another mountain to climb. um in in like almost all areas of my life. Like it's
01:32:49
not just it's definitely not physical. You know, I'm back at university as a 46
01:32:54
year old. Again, not that uncommon, but I I left school at 14. Like I when you think of academia, I'm 180 degrees from
01:33:03
that, but I'm you know, it's always a little further for me. I >> I have had my first conversation about a
01:33:08
PhD. Um, so I'm looking to do a doctorate in behavioral science and psychology, you know, to to put a doctor
01:33:16
before my name. I mean, I'm I'm not doing it yet, so don't put the cart
01:33:19
before the horse, but um, you know, I've got that vision and it's because, you
01:33:23
know, I will always go a little further and I and I and I love that. And God, I hope my family think that I'm like that
01:33:29
and not the multi-layered, multi-acceted, complex human being. They say females are complex. It's like, hold
01:33:36
my beer. Yeah, hold my beer. Is your your inner voice, inner critic usually pretty good?
01:33:42
>> No. Uh, no. Not great. Um, but easily influenced. >> Yeah. I don't I spent a lot. So, I don't
01:33:51
know. Have you come across David Neath, the mental profession? >> Yeah, I've had him on the had him on the
01:33:55
show. >> Have you? Oh, no. Yes, you have. I listen to it. God, jeez. He's awesome. So, very good friend of
01:34:01
mine. He So, he mentored me for three years. Um, so we've had a a a long relationship, Big Dave and I actually a
01:34:09
bit too familiar if I'm honest. The last time I talked to him, he rang at a FaceTime at about 8:00 p.m. We were just
01:34:16
about to go to bed. Uh, FaceTime. I said to Liz, "Oh, Neathy's calling. I don't
01:34:20
know what this is about. I hope everything's all right." So, I put up the FaceTime. There's this big soccer
01:34:26
ball head in the dark like the light just on his and you know his melon like it's massive. this big soccer ball and
01:34:32
he's got no clothes on. He's sitting nude on a chair and he said, "How are
01:34:35
you, buddy? What's going on?" I'm like, "Bro, no. No way." I didn't know whether
01:34:41
I was aroused or frightened. I was a blend of the two, but um I don't know where I'm going with this, but uh
01:34:48
>> that's a great story. >> Yeah, you need you need to know who we're talking about for this to make He
01:34:53
looks like um you know the old game, Guess Who? >> There's a guy with a bald head and a
01:34:59
beard. He looks like that guy. Yeah, that's Nathan. >> Eric, I think his name is.
01:35:02
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. >> Oh, where where were you going with
01:35:05
that? >> Oh, was it the inner voice? Oh, yeah. It was the voice. Yeah. >> So, obviously spending a lot of time
01:35:11
with Dave and he is Oh, like without, you know, pedestalling Dave, he is, you know, one of the best at what he does.
01:35:17
And so, I learned very early on, uh, cuz he coached me through a lot of the world
01:35:22
record stuff. And then as I went on to, um, work in the mental skills department, uh, mentored me there. you
01:35:29
know, he's a big fan of reframing and re-engineering thoughts and thinking to
01:35:33
serve us. And so I of course grabbed that and ran with that enthusiastically. So, you know, thinking and thoughts
01:35:41
either contribute to what we're doing or contaminate. You know, it's going to
01:35:44
help us or it's going to hinder. It's going to support or it's going to
01:35:46
sabotage. And so, quite often again, you know, where are my feet? Pausing in the
01:35:51
moment and thinking, you know, is this thinking actually contributing Jamie? Is it the truth? And 99% of the time it
01:35:59
probably is, but a lot of the time it's not, you know. And I did it, mate, just
01:36:03
before coming on to this podcast. We were we were outside and um I had to like reframe the way I was thinking
01:36:10
about this and think, you know, I might be able to in this conversation, you know, there might be another little
01:36:15
Mario boy from Rourura that's running a muck and um you know, they might listen
01:36:20
and think, oh, you know, there's there's opportunity and potential for for them
01:36:24
as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. One one big thing I got from um
01:36:28
Dave, Big Dave, is um you know, he's he's like, "Look, there's there's plenty
01:36:33
of other people that are going to try and tear you down. Don't join them."
01:36:35
Basically, don't talk Poppy yourself. >> Oh, 100%. Look, I've I've I've leared to
01:36:40
understand, you know, this judgment and stuff. And without talking about too much psycho babble, there's lots of
01:36:46
different theories. There's a thing they call perception is projection which
01:36:49
basically means what we're judging, disliking or hating in other people is a
01:36:54
direct reflection of ourselves. >> The part of us that we don't like and
01:36:59
that's why celebrities and you know individuals like yourself um Dom may cop
01:37:04
a bit of flack on online platforms because you're perceived as an easy target. It's like, you know, popular,
01:37:10
you're in the media and the the people what they dislike about themselves, they're going to fire at you. But
01:37:17
ultimately to the degree of the we call it like emotional veilance. So the the heat, the energy, and what they're
01:37:25
saying, if it's like fullon, it is all about them and nothing about you. >> Yeah. Which is kind of cool to know when
01:37:31
we understand those theories, you can sit back and go, "Oh, cool story, bro.
01:37:36
You obviously got a pretty [ __ ] life at the moment if you're firing that stuff.
01:37:39
>> Yeah. Well, anyone that's winning at life is not saying anything. >> They're not they're not going online
01:37:44
like talking Yeah. They're championing what you're doing. You know what I mean? And and not
01:37:50
afraid to to admit. I listened to um Ghilbert in Yeah. and read his book and and you know, he he openly admits he's
01:38:00
part of the problem, you know, many times. And then he enlisted other people to to educate and and level him up. I
01:38:07
mean, one of the greatest at, you know, what he does in the mental skills department, 23 years with the All
01:38:12
Blacks, and he's admitting I don't know everything. I'm part of the problem. You
01:38:16
know, Socrates, you know, I think he was from Roaura, too, bro. Society said, you
01:38:20
know, >> 100% he was. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I saw him on the luge once,
01:38:24
>> ancient Greek philosopher up going up the gondola for a luge. Uh, he said he
01:38:28
knew that he said, I know that I know nothing. Mhm. >> They got the greatest mind, one of the
01:38:34
greatest minds ever, saying, "I know that I know nothing." >> I think, "Oh, God, there's hope for me
01:38:39
then." >> Yeah. I definitely find that like the the older I get, the more that I know,
01:38:44
the the the more I realize there is to know and the less I know. >> I don't know. That's That's right. I
01:38:50
think there's we have context of what we know. And then on the other side of that
01:38:54
is an absolute mystery. >> And some people have this much context and some have that, but all the other
01:38:59
stuff we don't know. And I think that's exciting. Like when we start to, you
01:39:04
know, uh figure out and discover the unknown, that's when magic happens. Like
01:39:08
it really does. It's really quite incredible. >> I reckon that's a good place to end it.
01:39:14
Oh, mate. This has been a this has been a great episode. I know you were nervous
01:39:17
about it, but I I think this has been a phenomenal episode. I think there's it's
01:39:20
inspiring. Um there's um some good takeaways that everyone can use to make their own life a little bit better.
01:39:27
>> It's cool. >> Awesome. Dom, thank you very much. This has been brilliant.
01:39:30
>> Jamie Mil, the David Gogins of New Zealand. >> Get up, David. Get up. H. Thank you very
01:39:35
much for your time, Don. It's like I'm I'm truly honored, man. It's been
01:39:39
awesome. >> Yeah. Hey, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to following your
01:39:41
journey. >> Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. But