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hey Runners only with dime Harley sitting here today with the legend Ian Winston hello
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why can't I hear you what's going on here oh we got you there we go yeah get nice
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and close into that microphone mate sure cool um hey it is so fabulous to be sitting down with you today off um I've
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read a lot about you I've followed your journey um a mutual friend of ours Steve
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kilgallon he wrote a book about you yep um one hell of a story so you're a marathon runner and then you have a
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workplace accident and now you're um you're like a wheelchair athlete yeah yeah nothing changes
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um used to gym bike swim run before my incident and I'm Jim bike swim running
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after my accident just do a little differently that's all yeah yeah so the um the insulin that you speak of that
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happened in uh June 2011 so you're coming up 11 years you want to you want to go back to that or not really uh yeah
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it'll go down in in probably in in our family history as one of the darkest days of our family so yeah but um
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yeah but there's been some good stuff that's come out of it yeah of course of
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course I mean I think a lot of it's got to do with your character as a person
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and just the type of person that you are but do you not do you not like to revisit it because you just feel like
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you've drawn A Line in the Sand and moved on no I'm I'm pretty lucky when it comes to
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that because I don't remember anything um so the the trauma is is really for
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other people who um because I just missed like three and a half weeks of my life going on I
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didn't and so the the trauma is for them for me it's more about dealing with um
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with the hidden injuries that I have and that people don't see and and the constant daily battles with life with
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people who don't understand or don't really want to understand what disability is all about because I I'm
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actually not disabled I'm just physically challenged you know and so people don't actually get that when I
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get cross about not being able to access something or it's not because I have an
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attitude it's just because I want to get there and I'm you know and you stopping
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me from getting there is is one of those things that really really makes me cross
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yeah especially in this day and age what are the um what are the um hidden injuries that you speak of well I have a
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traumatic brain injury which a lot of people don't actually understand there's
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more there's more signs coming towards it because of what's been going on in
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rugby you're read about this so This you didn't know this in the beginning it
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wasn't discovered until a couple of years uh yeah it took um it took over over six months to manifest itself it
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actually started to manifest itself once I got out of Rehabilitation well the first phase of Rehabilitation started to
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manifest itself um there were little signs in Rehabilitation but we just put it you
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know I was still on quite of drugs and stuff like that and so but as I came off those drugs my personality had changed a
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little bit and Catherine my wife was starting to see traits in me that she was a bit concerned about and then she
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sent me off to a family doctor and she sent me off to James Cunningham who's a
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neuropsych and I had a lot of testing and found out that um yeah I've got a moderate to severe
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in certain areas of traumatic brain injury which people don't see but it's
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so basically from 6am to 12 noon I'm pretty good but then as uh and then I have to go and have a sleep and then the
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afternoons get a little bit difficult and then the late afternoons are more difficult
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um it's just it's just with cognitive stuff and and lights and stuff like that
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but um oh you just get tired real quick yeah do you find it gets worse if you have to
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concentrate on a time oh yeah yeah yeah definitely definitely so it's it's one
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of those things um so I like to try and get all my training done in the mornings
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um although of late I've been doing some afternoon training at that difficult
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time where I I struggle cognitively and once I get on the bike on the trainer I don't have to think too much and so it's
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actually afternoon sessions have been pretty good actually yeah geez you're a
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tough bag around here you're right now because I think um and um I mean everyone everyone has that happens
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in their life I I think the that been through is probably like one percent of of what you've been through
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um but I feel like my relationship with running has helped me deal with that because you sort
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of like whenever the hits the fan you think okay well yeah I did this marathon and I trained and I've done
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this um and it sort of gives you strength and resilience is it was that your sort of
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experience like when you were lying in a hospital were you like oh when I started
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lying in hospital I started doing setups I was the only access only thing I could
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do because both arms were broken and and had to be like really badly damaged and
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I had bandages all on me the only thing that that could work was the stomach muscles so sit-ups was was all I could
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do because I had a nickel how could you do that without the um stability of your
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lower legs well the thing is you know you learn from Pilates and from yoga and all that did you you can't engage them
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without having to do a full setup but I mean that's that's all I could do
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basically but um yeah running running is a it's a double-edged sword for me now it's um so
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I I do struggle when I see people running do you get started to fomo Awards yes well not jealous but I just
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um running used to be my mindfulness basically so if I was stressed at work or anything like that I used to put my
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shoes on and just go run and after a while your troubles just sort of like dissipated they don't you can sort of
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work them out and I'm lucky I live in an area where you know I used to be able to
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just run up into the waitakere's and although I'm not a big track runner
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um I used to get up just up into the into the shallow Hills here and and you know you
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after three hours you come back you're pretty exhausted your troubles have gone
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away to someone exist but yeah it's it's running definitely I mean it's been a
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part of my life since it's like five years old um I've always run I didn't run between
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I stopped running after my first um spinal injury back in um in South Africa in 1993 I stopped
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running completely um the surgeon told me that it wouldn't be a good idea of a carried on running
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what caused the spinal injury oh at school a guy pulled a chair out from underneath me that was yes you know they
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they're funny yeah yeah exactly yeah and it just all went wrong and you know the
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angles it had to hit in perfect angle you know most people just get up from that and brush it off and never but yeah
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so I had a geez you've been in the wars man yeah so it's um it's it's one of
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those things that you know but when I came to New Zealand and and my back was had been pretty stable for a long time
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um I happened to get back into running um and then I got into Triathlon and all that kind of stuff but but running has
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always been there as a as a it's just a Moody and also it's a great way to stay fit and and keep the keep
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the weight off and yeah yeah so um and you know once you get up once you can run for two hours without without
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even thinking about it um getting to that two hour markers is awesome but once you get over that and
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you you know and then you start going to the three-hour market and just having a
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casual run for three hours is just awesome you know yeah people people don't realize how good it can be
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um but you know I think got to have that mental strength to actually train to get to that too Mark
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and you've got to be pretty determined um and also you've got to actually
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you've got to actually want to do it you've got to love it yeah you don't do
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it if you if you don't love it and that's um that's what I always think about
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anything that you do in life if you don't love doing what you're doing then
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don't do it but um yeah but watching people run on a crisp early Winter's
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morning is is a very mind-blowing experience for me because I do I do I miss it I do miss it without a doubt but
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uh because although I do hand cycling and I swim and I go to the gym and everything like that it's a completely
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different feeling and workout that you get when you run um you know running with your legs is
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completely different to hand cycling with your arms you know but um I'm you know I'm I am pretty blessed because
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I've I've done all the stuff that people dream about you know I dream about
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running a marathon I've I've done 100K walk I've done 100K half walk off run
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um I've done I've done all that kind of you're talking pre-accident yeah yeah
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yeah yeah yeah yeah I've done all that so I don't um I don't sit there as some people
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would in if they weren't an athlete beforehand thinking oh I should have run
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a marathon or I should have done this or I should have done that you know I'm
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lucky enough I did do those things um it's a good attitude but yeah yeah I see
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what you're saying you can't do those when you were when you were lying in
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that hospital bed and you know you became fully aware of the extent of things like we were you depressed for a
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time um no I've never I've only cried once and it was uncontrollable for about
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45 minutes and that was about uh must have been about five weeks after the incident
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um just one evening I just started crying and I just couldn't stop crying and
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and then after about 40 minutes I stopped crying and that was that and that's the last time
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um I have felt any kind of um morning or yeah yeah yeah I I um I mean don't get me wrong I must I
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miss not having legs that I'm without a doubt I mean that's and the weird thing
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is is that they're still with me because of the the Phantom legs or there the
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feet are there everything's there I can bend them I can I can move them around
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and so and that's and that's the trouble I have at the moment is that I can't actually I
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can't get rid of them um so it's they are how do you mean can you explain that well what's happening
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yeah so that the thing is because the legs are there from a phantom point of view right it's very difficult for me to
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cross over it into the I have no legs kind of like story and that's I so I sit on the fence like
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I'm still I still feel like I'm fully able but you know the legs are not there
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if I'd go to stand up so it's a it's a very very difficult one to to explain to people that and that's why
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I said I don't actually feel disabled um and I don't actually let I don't want
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to actually or try let my disability um stop me from doing anything oh and you don't I've watched your what's your
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journey from afar you definitely don't you're living a very very rich yeah ten
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ten years of trying to walk on Prosthetics is still is still the goal to run um on blades
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um it's still one of my goals that I'm actually working towards um it's just that because of the way
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that my spinal fusion was done in 1993 and we've had some technical issues with
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the Prosthetics but we're getting over those um and yeah that's it if I can get to
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running 100 meters or 200 meters on blades on a track then I'll be happy because then I'm actually doing what I
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used to do because I started off as a track runner not as a you know I started off on in the fields on on tracks and so
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and when that happens not if when that happens let's hope it works out better
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for you than the other um um but you know it's it's an interesting uh that's interesting because drugs
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um drugs make a big difference in a person's life um and I I'm actually trying to get off
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drugs but unfortunately with my injuries I've got to have a couple of drugs to
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keep the pain levels down yeah is that bad is it just on a daily basis no I live in pain all the time really
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whereabouts in my in my legs right um so I have a so I take nerve nerve pain drugs to keep the nerves at Bay
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um yeah and just like my right arm is my right hand and my right my left hand because I lost a finger on my my hand
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um oh did you I didn't even notice yeah like a Simpsons here yeah yeah it's a
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proper um comic end because it's only got three fingers yeah no absolutely five because wait
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where's that one two where where's the so the middle finger was amputated right
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but the back of the finger where I had a big gash they used the so they cut the skin underneath the the middle finger
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and it's flipped over so that actually over there what you can see there is the
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fingerprint of my middle finger so I still have all my prince so that is mind like I've been sitting
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here with you Ian for a quarter of an hour I didn't even notice I never noticed she's the surgeons did a
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brilliant job she's she's awesome she's um but uh you know the thing is I had the
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Phantom in there as well the nerve pain in there so riding the bike um I've actually had to
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over the three years that have been seriously riding I've had to actually the first couple of sessions of like one
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hour I couldn't actually hold the cranks anymore the hand pedals because they're
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cramping um But as time goes by and you get you know it's just like running uh the worst
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the worst is a the um I don't know if you can see the baby finger here because
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of the break and the hand and with the ulnar nerve coming down I always this has like a bit of a hook and it it
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actually causes me a bit of problems but you know I've actually just found I've
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shipped riding the bike not with cycling gloves anymore I'm actually using a
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weight lifting gloves and they have a little bit more padding in them and and they're a little bit stiffer and it's
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actually much better so um no I didn't yeah so it's just just a case of of
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um training the arm to do what I wanted to do basically um so yeah it's just so the
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nerve pain is is it drives me insane sometimes sometimes it takes me to a place where I have to actually take a
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little bit of harder drugs to actually get it under control and that to me says it must be really bad because you're
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you're a tough cookie yeah yeah not it is bad but I I don't I don't try and let
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it control me yeah I try and control it but sometimes it gets a better of me but
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um so that's the only the only drug but I will tell you that um uh beckon uh must be four years ago
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maybe five years ago four years ago I can't remember the exact date um uh I they changed my drugs
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to two different types of drugs because we were worried about what the one drug was doing over a long term you know and
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uh and I went to a really dark place not because I wanted to go there but the drugs actually took me a dark place and
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it was just fortunate that I actually had a meeting with um my neuropsych and he took you know he
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took one look at me and luckily we got off those drugs because I was not in good shape I was actually just I'd
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actually the drugs that got to the stage where I just thought that you know life
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wasn't actually worth living really oh yeah no it was bad it was bad for about
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five six weeks I didn't know what was going on I couldn't understand why I had
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changed but then we realized it was the drugs my body didn't like those drugs
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and my mind didn't like those drugs so yeah so there are a couple of drugs that
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are just um you know so you know going back to I don't know much about the pretorius thing but I know that he was
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there was a few drugs involved right and who knows cognitively what those drugs are doing I don't know yeah absolutely
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um your legs um that they're very high up aren't they um yeah where they were amputated yeah
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they make it hard with prosthetics no I'm actually lucky because my actually
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legs are quite long for Prosthetics so the amputations I think are about a hundred mils above the knee right
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um but the way they were um traumatically amputated was at an angle so the one knee was completely
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shattered and there was no ways they could actually repair any kind of way and the other knee was good but because
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of the amputation and the whole cough muscle had been taken off um so they they could there was they
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were they couldn't save the knee so then they actually decided and I'm actually
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very grateful they decided to be a symmetrical so both legs are exactly the same length are these 10 mils between
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each length um which makes it really really good for Prosthetics because they're not making a
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different prosthetic for so both when my prosthetic the the um the sockets they're called that actually fit over
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your legs um they pretty much similar whenever they make them which is much easier if
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you're dealing with that kind of thing because I've seen people who have who
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have asymmetrical sockets and you know you I think it's be a lot harder but um
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yeah no that's the good thing is over the years I've I've developed some
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skills in terms of being able to stand on the ends of my legs and walk on the ends of my legs oh look on the stumps
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yeah oh so you it's if you go in the bathroom in the night yeah yeah yeah I've actually I've I've um desensitized
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the nerves at the ends right wow that's remarkable yeah no it's and it's pretty
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cool for for walking Prosthetics because you don't have that that pain because
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the pain in the original putting those things on and and and standing up on the ends and getting that it used to become
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quite a numb feeling you can actually feel what was going on because it was so numb from pain but you know it's there's
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a whole lot of different um types of things now that they do to actually sort that kind of thing out so in the in the
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10 years that I've been attempting to walk on Prosthetics and I have walked on Prosthetics successfully
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um the the whole technology has just changed dramatically there yeah um so now my sockets actually only they only
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have got up halfway my legs they don't go right up to the top they don't
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actually come and support the hips I've built enough strength to be able to um and that's because I've been able to
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walk on the ends of my legs I've built up all the strength and the tendons there and everything like that but um
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yeah so that was a big end and that's just by learning from other people like
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people from overseas um and I don't know if you know Cameron Leslie here in New Zealand he's a triple
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gold medalist Olympic paralympic gold medalist and swimming he's he's born
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congenital but he walks on the ends of his league right and one of the things he said to me way back he said if you
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can learn to do that that would be the best thing because just yeah and I just a lot of hard work and a lot of of trial
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and error and it's you know this whole thing it's it's not something that just
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transpires in one day and you fixed it it's just it's just evolving the whole
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time um well you're retraining aren't you yeah basically having to learn yeah you
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know and I I keep saying to a lot of people that my initial Rehabilitation at um in the hospital once I got home the
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rehabilitation just hasn't stopped and it's just going to carry on so that's
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why I actually go to the you know I constantly go to the gym and things like that because there's that constant
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everything for me is changing all the time I strengthen one area and then another thing will happen and so we've
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got a little issue going on at the moment which is going to have to be fixed I don't know how but um we're
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waiting to see The Specialist and then discuss that but um it's just a because I do leave it
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lead an active life I can't yeah just it's it's just gonna evolve and I'm just gonna have to keep
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rehabilitating the whole time and so that's where the gym comes in really really handy that's where the pool comes
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in handy I feel like even if the accident didn't happen this would be um this would be how you are now though you
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could constantly be learning and I actually think I wrote a post to a friend in Australia that
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um you know a lot of people look at at people with disabilities doing sport that it's like super inspirational and
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everything okay and I I do I the word inspirational doesn't sit really really
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well with me I'd prefer to be motivational if somebody can be motivated because they see what I do
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that's cool and if it gets them off their bum and doing something then that's cool what are you like
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inspirational what is that because I'll be with you because um I'm just doing
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what I did before I'm not like I said I I used to go to the gym I used to run I
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used to bike I used to swim what I'm doing now is I go to the gym exactly and I'm not you know and I'm not
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climbing any mountains I'm not jumping out of airplanes I'm not I'm not trying
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to show that people with with who have lost limbs and stuff like that can do because I know if I want to go and jump
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out of the plane I can go and jump out of a plane it's it's it's nothing but I
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think some people uh yeah inspirational um I I don't know I just don't see myself
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as I I wouldn't like people to um I don't know how they can see me as Instagram well okay can I try and
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explain yeah okay well I think um anyone would like put themselves in your position and think about how they could
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potentially react to this um drastic life change and maybe they think um they would sit around and mope and
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sulk and feel sorry for themselves so to see you just getting on with it um I suppose they said it's
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inspirational and you you don't know how you would react until you're in that
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position maybe they wouldn't sulk and mope and just watch TV all day but maybe
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they would yeah you know thinking about what you just said is so right the way through my my early childhood and and my
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teen years I've had these like little series of events that have probably actually made me a lot stronger so one
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of the events is ah no I I was either I think I was six years old it's either
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six or seven and we had Athletics day which was a big thing in our schools in a Saturday afternoon and Saturday
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morning I went to a building site with my brothers and I stood on a and I I don't know if you're a bully beef can
00:22:33
uh canned meat oh yeah yeah you know before something yeah yeah so you know how that on those can meats you have the
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the little uh key and you turn it and you oh yeah and when you open up a real sharp edge on that can I stood on that
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can and sliced my toe open and I had to go off to the hospital and they put seven stitches in my toe my big
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toe um but that didn't stop me from from running and competing in at least day
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um and yeah afterwards the the toe was a little bit of a mess but um I you know and I go back to I I go
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back to that day and I think okay so you know if I was at seven or six or seven I was able to do that
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um then as as time has gone on these kind of things um it hasn't you know like my back issue
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when I was a teenager um most people would have probably stopped playing sport but I carried on
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playing um and it's just because it's sporters I just love sport it's just been such a
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part of my life it's um you know hockey cricket anything basically um anything to do with sports never
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really got into tennis um but yeah no you know just uh soccer I I was not play rugby because I had an ear
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operation I was only allowed to get in a swimming pool when I was eight years old
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because I had an ear problem right from birth and I was only fixed when I was eight so I was only allowed to get into
00:24:02
a swimming pool when I was eight so those kind of things um yeah it probably led to
00:24:08
when when this happened that yeah sure you've got a big Hiccup and a big changes in our life and big changes for
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Catherine and the boys and um you know we've had we've had our whole house that's been had to be
00:24:20
redeveloped with ramps and ramps and all that kind of stuff and right and you know it's taken a long time for us to
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actually find kind of like some kind of like stable stability because I've had
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31 surgeries really yeah when was the most recent uh so the lease was 2019 I had my hand
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redone uh wow this was all inflamed and all red and we couldn't understand why
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and then the surgeon went in and he went all the way up and found some trapped nerves up here and so yeah so that was
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the last one so it's been three years now is that the end of it uh no um um yeah does that frustrate you um yeah it
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does because it's downtime it's um you know you can only watch so many movies
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um but you know the thing is you um because I've been there and done it already
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um it'll just be just have it get done just wait for it to heal and then just
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get carry on again yeah so um the good thing is is that as you know Fitness once you've got a good base
00:25:28
you do lose a little bit of your shopping but you don't lose your Fitness overnight yeah the muscle memory and
00:25:33
also you know you know you can get it back oh yeah that's that's a cool thing
00:25:37
and and there's some exciting stuff that's happening in the next couple of
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months that's um that you know if if I do have to have time down time then at least with this
00:25:46
other exciting stuff that is happening so how frustrating was it for you like you talked about the adjustments around
00:25:51
the house and stuff how hard was it to retrain yourself like uh you know it was an incredibly frustrating time or did
00:25:57
you take to the the chair like a duck to water no no the the hand cycle took a while to adjust because I can't supinate
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and pronate this hand okay so um getting into a bike into a position where and then oh this is your like your
00:26:12
competing yeah yeah right Oh you mean the wheelchair yeah oh no the wheelchair was pretty easy yeah
00:26:18
um yeah I couldn't yeah once once I got it yeah it was pretty easy they they
00:26:24
cool it's just it's just transport basically um but um I've got three
00:26:30
different types of chairs off so I've got a four by four for the beach and which able to meet to get into the sea
00:26:35
because that's very very important important for me to actually get in in salt water
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um because my my early adult life was spent in Durban and natal in South Africa where the beach was was very very
00:26:50
important to our social life um yeah so coming to New Zealand um it's not it's not the same because to
00:27:01
get to pihar is quite a trick but yeah to get to North Beach and Durban was so easy just down the motorway and you're
00:27:07
there kind of like the beach was there and you know you had you had miles and miles and miles of beach they're very
00:27:13
similar whereas here you've you've got these Pockets where you go to so been
00:27:16
fortunate enough that um Catherine's families had a cottage in whitianga for
00:27:20
25 26 maybe 27 years now and so that's an escape and so Buffalo Beach that's a
00:27:27
great Beach great yeah so um so lucky I have a 4x4 that I can actually get down onto the beach and get
00:27:33
in the water um although I've got to have the waves I've got to be a little
00:27:37
gentler so I get lucky washing machine but um yeah I can you know the good thing is I can't I'm a
00:27:44
pretty form for me and my um body I'm a strong swimmer so uh um I can swim pretty well yeah were you
00:27:54
because you're um you work as a swimming coach now yeah I'm a swim teacher and a
00:27:58
swim coach yeah were you were you much of a swimmer before the accident uh no swimming was a means to get on the bike
00:28:03
right okay okay yeah yeah I remember the first person who ever looked at my swimming stroke you asked me once I'd
00:28:11
finished swimming 50 meters asked me what I was doing and I said I was swimming he said no it looked like he
00:28:16
said no you're not so um yeah so the good thing is the one good thing coming out of the accident or
00:28:23
the incident was that I had to learn how to swim again and so this time around I
00:28:28
knew what I was having to do and learn um whereas when you're five you forget
00:28:34
you forget all this stuff and how you learn to swim and then you know you people a lot of people after
00:28:40
after two or three years of swingly since they give up and they don't actually ever swim again they don't
00:28:45
actually go forward or yeah I've I've actually kept up since since I've
00:28:49
learned to swim I've actually kept it up myself and then I went off and and became you know I did the courses to
00:28:55
become a swim teacher um just because swimming swimming in New Zealand is so so important I mean we live around water
00:29:02
oh yeah we've got a moat and it's just I cannot believe the number of kids who
00:29:07
just can't swim properly um and it's it's wrong it's absolutely wrong kids need to learn how to swim but
00:29:14
um that's a double-edged sword as well is because that's exhausting it is
00:29:18
exhausting yeah and yeah I'm guessing it's completely different as well because your legs um first of all you
00:29:24
use them to kick but even if you're not using them to kick them guessing they'll
00:29:27
provide you some sort of low balance well yeah the water line it's like a a yacht a long a long yachtis Foster then
00:29:33
a short yacht and the same as with legs in your body position you know it's yeah
00:29:38
but the the cool thing is that I I I can teach and I have been teaching pretty well for the last couple of years
00:29:46
um I've got a couple of I've got a young para that I'm that I'm coaching
00:29:52
but yeah it is it's it is a different um it is different um but I've I've just actually completed
00:30:00
a life coaching course as well because um I'd like to help people with resilience
00:30:06
um and teach them what resilience is all about people give up too quickly um you know even even running people
00:30:13
will they'll run for three or four weeks and then they'll just give up because
00:30:17
just school getting too hard yeah and and the main thing is bro because they're actually doing it wrong
00:30:22
you know they they they're trying to they're trying to get there too quickly
00:30:26
as you know as a runner you've gone you know to run a marathon you I mean you
00:30:30
could go out and run a marathon but you'll probably kill yourself or you'll
00:30:34
you'll definitely be very very sore there yeah 100 or you'll be at the doctors because you've you've torn
00:30:39
you've damaged yourself completely and so you've got to teach your body to
00:30:43
learn how to run a marathon you can't actually just go I mean there are some
00:30:47
people who are genetically who just could do it and because they genetically built but most people aren't
00:30:53
genetically built to run and um so resilience do you feel like that's something that um that can be taught to
00:30:58
people or is that gonna yeah you do yeah I do I do I think it's definitely um I think it's definitely a mindset and
00:31:06
you need to actually talk to somebody who who's been there and be able to coach
00:31:11
you through it because not not everybody has it's not even everybody is mentally
00:31:15
tough um there's I mean I even think there's times when I'm not mentally tough when
00:31:21
do you like win uh sometimes when when I've got a hard training schedule that's
00:31:26
downstairs on the train and I'm I I don't want to go down because I know
00:31:30
it's I know it's going to be sore and uncomfortable and and um and you think of every oh should I do
00:31:36
it or should I do it and and then eventually you go down and you do it and it's not so bad but just that you know
00:31:42
you know you know when it's going to be uncomfortable yeah you know it's going
00:31:45
to hurt and and yeah other ones that feel best afterwards yeah you do you don't want to
00:31:51
do it and then you just once you've done it yeah because the thing is it's um
00:31:54
it's just that uh I think I don't even know West Coast Road in the white X yeah
00:32:00
all right okay so it's a hell of a climb yeah so um you know training run uh which is a
00:32:07
better way should we go up quarter Road or shall we stay or stay on West Coast Road oh which is one's going to hurt the
00:32:12
the least oh let's go up Carter Road because you know that West Coast Road has got three little knots do you I mean
00:32:17
you've got the the climb to the top of Scenic Drive so you think oh which is
00:32:21
the worst which is a lesser two evils you know but and I and that's just a mental it's not a physical thing because
00:32:28
your body will go wherever your mind takes it but it's it's beating the mind
00:32:32
it's it's but I think I think when you the unknown is easier you know when you
00:32:38
then the UN then the known so it's like it's like writing the Orca Marathon okay
00:32:44
so the last three times that I've done it the first year was just to see how my
00:32:49
arm would cope um and we got to about 37 K's and this arm started to cramp and I thought okay
00:32:54
so I had to back it off completely because I didn't really want to I didn't
00:32:58
want to have to stop and then um and then the second time was let's see how you know we've made some changes
00:33:06
to the bike but then we were having mechanical issues because the tolerances in the bike the bike frame and the and
00:33:11
the running gear was just not right and so I was I had but I was thinking when I
00:33:16
was going up the bridge this this last time that I was actually because I'm fitter and stronger I could actually
00:33:22
because I knew that I just had to just pull the cranks over and crank I could actually look around and enjoy the
00:33:29
sunrise coming up and I although we were going up the hill and I I didn't actually just kill myself going up
00:33:36
because I wanted it's got to be hard though that um it's um going up the
00:33:40
Auckland Harbor Bridge it's um deceptively long and steep yeah it's just over a kilometer
00:33:45
um from the from the devonport side yeah that's going to be hard doing that with
00:33:48
your hands no the thing is um so I just put it in a gear that I knew that I I wouldn't actually hurt
00:33:54
myself and I'd actually said to myself I want to go fast on tamiki Drive I wanna
00:33:59
so I don't want to kill myself on the bridge um and yeah no it was just awesome just
00:34:05
put it in in a gear and I just seven kilometers an hour up and my heart rate didn't go with 175 and you know and I
00:34:12
probably lost maybe a minute or two on that on that climb but the thing is it was something to enjoy the sunrise it
00:34:18
was beautiful it you know it was and then when we got to the other side once I got over there then I put the hammer
00:34:23
down and I you know I've looked at my my um Telemetry afterwards and I'm pretty
00:34:29
happy I'm barring the sun Strikers I have to worry about it and also through
00:34:33
um through the viaduct they're the council had made some really some changes
00:34:38
all these roundabouts and all you know and and and and because of the narrowness and they've that they're all
00:34:46
the bike Lanes where they've got these funny concrete things you had to be a
00:34:49
little bit mindful so you had to back it off there a bit but but yeah no it's
00:34:53
it's um it's a different now that I'm fit them my arms are stronger and anything
00:34:59
like that I can't actually start enjoying it yeah whereas the first two years I must say that it was more about
00:35:04
survival in terms of what I was trying to achieve you know and I even in the in the 2020 um Marathon I actually crashed
00:35:14
I actually um going through Mission Bay I I got a little bit of a um a wheel wobble and I
00:35:21
over corrected with my with the this um wasn't strong enough to hold the bike
00:35:25
and the strikes are over corrected and X-Men and I was I was on the pavement and the bike was upside down and
00:35:30
everybody was sort of speed were you going at the time uh about 24 25 cases right wow so so everybody's coming
00:35:36
running over and they want to check me and I'm saying just I'm not interested
00:35:39
in me just get the bike riders the bike okay so you know get back in the bike and go again and um yeah that was that
00:35:47
was crazy um but uh you know and then and then this year I finally felt that I'm strong
00:35:54
enough now to actually um start pushing we are pushing higher and going longer and faster
00:36:02
um but yeah that's but now it's all about technology now it's it's the bike
00:36:06
that I'm on is is not the best and um it's not even far from the middle so
00:36:13
how so it just sometimes yeah it's just it's the it's the cheapest bike you can
00:36:18
buy and it's just as you know when you buy as somebody actually put an analogy
00:36:22
oh so you're riding like aware without being nice to you I like a real Spike
00:36:27
you know I said yeah yeah as opposed to going to the bike shop and buying sure you know buying a uh yeah well not even
00:36:34
that but just a a you know buying a a bike that's actually um fit for for that kind of thing so
00:36:42
yeah so we we've we've got some plans in the in the in the wind to actually get a
00:36:46
new bike so that's cool fantastic yeah now What's um I I've never met um
00:36:51
anybody before that's done both that's that's run a marathon on their legs and
00:36:55
uh done a marathon with their their arms as well what what are the differences I'm guessing the legs are a bigger
00:37:00
muscle group um and I suppose but the arms are a smaller group but yeah I suppose you can
00:37:04
roll a little bit uh yeah once you get once you get uh once you get the um the roll on and you and you get into that
00:37:10
Rhythm um the arms actually you don't have to actually put too much power through the
00:37:15
arms I've found on the weekend that um I've got quite good um tricep development
00:37:21
um in both arms now and triceps I think pay a huge part in but it's it's just
00:37:25
yeah once you get into that into that Rhythm and it's the same same with Marathon running with legs once you get
00:37:31
into that Rhythm um and you've trained your legs you can go and go and go you know you don't
00:37:36
actually it's when you it's when you start taking when you start pushing and
00:37:41
that heart rate elevates and the lactic acid starts building up if you if you get to that stage once it's gone and you
00:37:48
can't you can't get it back it's just staying in that Groove um you know not that's that's the thing
00:37:54
with training is you you train for that Groove yeah um and then you just push it a little
00:37:59
bit harder when you when you're racing is the feeling at the Finish Line much
00:38:02
the same uh bittersweet because um people people see you coming are you riding a bike oh that must be so much
00:38:11
easier you know and you're at a running event and and and you know this is I take my
00:38:18
head off to the to the Auckland Marathon because um I went across to New York in 2015 and
00:38:23
I did the New York Marathon yeah yeah first first um above the knee amputee ever to do the New York Marathon yeah no
00:38:29
no no no no no no no in a hat in a in a recumbent cycle with artificial legs was
00:38:35
the first right okay so I was in a different because I I couldn't crank with my arm we decide decided to
00:38:41
actually use my prosthetic legs and use a recumbent hand cycle so and with petals and so I was actually using legs
00:38:51
and while we were while we were in the air between um LA and New York there was big
00:38:59
discussions where they're going to actually disqualify me from entering because they they saw the bike that I
00:39:05
was riding and they thought that I know you've got legs you're going to just you
00:39:08
know you're going to be so far in front because you're going to be but what they
00:39:11
don't realize is that it's you know using mechanical stuff that is it's
00:39:15
really difficult to actually crank so it took me four hours to get around the course that allowed me to start but
00:39:21
um it was then that I actually I I saw all the hand cycles and I thought you know we really got to try and hand cycle
00:39:28
and so I was fortunate enough in 2016 to be invited by pnz to go down to a new Plymouth to the the cycling camp and I
00:39:38
tried and it wasn't too bad and so and it's just been a progression since then
00:39:44
and and now you know they're still there's still heaps of work to do yeah
00:39:48
they're still I've got to make my shoulders and chest and arms much stronger so I'll be hitting the gym and
00:39:54
hitting the bike the cool thing I've got nice training setup where I can just go
00:39:58
down and I can just train and just jump on the bike and just crank and you know there's nothing more that you can do
00:40:04
it's like running you know the only way to actually to run further and longer is to actually
00:40:10
do it yeah but train smart without hurting yourself you know so um total length I don't know how old 57 total length but
00:40:26
only 10 in short you know I always get it to myself again what do you mean well well I'm only really 11 right I've been
00:40:34
rebuilt you know okay okay at the total model or the or the new model OKAY the the the simplified model
00:40:43
because it got rid of some body parts yeah so this yeah but I don't actually
00:40:49
feel that old at all to be honest I actually um you know I I get frustrated with the
00:40:56
traumatic brain injury because that is the one that actually slows me down because I I can't
00:41:02
if I didn't have the brain injury um I'd be like a like an Energizer Bunny
00:41:07
with our legs it's just like but that that just that's the handbrake that will
00:41:12
just stop me from yeah like a limiter yeah it is I've got to be very very careful and that's where Catherine has
00:41:18
been awesome she's you know she sees she sees the subtle changes that are going
00:41:23
on she says you need to stop you need to go rest you know sleep um you know that kind of stuff so it's
00:41:29
good to have that support Crews yeah how's the whole thing been for her the last 11 years uh Bittersweet as well
00:41:36
very hard she's had to take on roles that I used to do in the house and and that that kind of that's hard for me
00:41:42
like what's the roles uh mowing lawns just yes July five well high four no well that I I used to love making them
00:41:52
yeah yeah I know that was awesome I used to time myself to see how fast I can do
00:41:57
it the quicker we could do it but also you have to do it properly though but they're quick you gotta you know I used
00:42:04
to love mowing lawns and and I used to love washing cars and stuff like that and so um you know just just those kind
00:42:10
of things um she's she's had to be father and mother to both boys because there's been
00:42:16
a lot of dime time for me that I'm actually just haven't been present you
00:42:19
know so yeah that kind of thing that's not through you can't feel guilty about
00:42:22
it no no no um but you know there's things that I've I've I do now that that probably roll
00:42:29
roll reversal so luckily I used to enjoy ironing before because you know that's the ideal lining
00:42:37
and that falling of the washing and stuff like that but you know there's um yeah it's it's been hard for her I'll be
00:42:45
you know our whole relationship is completely different because of the way that life is
00:42:51
um you know I used to be 24 7. I used to be only needed a few hours sleep I used to
00:42:58
be always you know I could do everything I didn't need a diary I always remembered everything in my brain and
00:43:05
um and now I'm not that same person anymore and I'm sure she struggles with
00:43:09
it to a certain extent um I know I feel like it probably frustrates you more than her you're still the same here no
00:43:16
no no things are different I'm different um you know I I see things a little
00:43:21
differently as well and um I do give I I get frustrated pretty what do you see differently
00:43:28
um yes I have to protect myself and so um I don't actually engage a lot um sometimes I have to actually just I
00:43:41
divorce myself from from family life to be because I just I just it's a self-protection mode it's um we are
00:43:48
getting better at it um but uh this recent little so during lockdown during August I was down in the garage
00:43:55
with my youngest son and I I did I did something I don't know what I did but a
00:44:00
couple of hours later I could I was in so much pain and and the pain hasn't gone away but it
00:44:07
hasn't gotten worse which is a good thing but it's it's a I had some
00:44:11
scans done in December and just waiting to see The Specialist now but that kind of pain so
00:44:18
I did I was down in the garage a couple of days ago and I I had to just stop and
00:44:25
I gotta stop now because this thing's just escalating and so that's frustrating I've got a project down in
00:44:31
the garage that's what would normally take two or three days it's gonna probably end up taking two or three
00:44:35
weeks yeah so that that kind of frustration um and then there's just um yeah there's been it's just subtle
00:44:43
changes people people don't realize that um you know living in Auckland is not easy
00:44:49
for a person with disability you know we went to a place yesterday and I'm not
00:44:53
going to name where we went but winter place yesterday um and I rolled down the window and I
00:44:59
said to the guy just you don't want people here at your business who've got
00:45:02
any kind of wheelchair disability do you because there was just steps everywhere
00:45:06
right and he goes oh he goes oh you know we've only just moved in here and you
00:45:10
know we still and I'm going well if you've only just moved in on this deck
00:45:14
that looks brand new why didn't somebody to put a ramp in you know but I you know
00:45:19
this is the kind of thing it's so annoying yeah it is you know a lot of people think that people with
00:45:24
disabilities should just be tucked away don't see that and and that's why you
00:45:29
don't see a lot of people with disabilities going out and doing stuff and that's why you know you talk about
00:45:33
uh inspirational well you only see a couple of these people out there doing it because it is hard it's not easy it's
00:45:40
you know you've got a shopping center a Christmas farmers at Christmas just you know you try and get through all the
00:45:47
aisles and they've just packed them out and I've gone to the stage now that if I
00:45:51
knock it over I knock it over I'm not I'm not I'm not going to apologize
00:45:54
because yeah you know they they don't actually see that people in wheelchairs
00:46:00
actually have a right to come into the shop as well you know and it's um I'm lucky I don't know if you see the
00:46:05
tiny little wheelchair that I've got power chair that I've got I take it to
00:46:08
my shopping centers now I don't take my bigger one into the shopping centers
00:46:12
because I just can't get through the different yeah you're sitting in this
00:46:18
power chair that you're talking about now and uh you're such a big dude with
00:46:21
your upper body I can't even see the chair yeah it's very compact yeah it is
00:46:24
it is a very cool little compact chair um but you know I've got another one that I should at my day chair that I
00:46:30
should go but because the biggest shops just clamber everything they don't actually and you
00:46:36
go and then if you knock something over I feel guilty that I've knocked it over
00:46:39
but I've got to the station now whatever I don't want to actually feel guilty
00:46:43
because you know I've I do have a I wouldn't say right but everybody else
00:46:48
has a right to go into a shop and and buy stuff so why can't I go to shop just
00:46:52
because I'm I'm out walking but you know and it's the same with with with mothers
00:46:57
that have strollers with their kids you know push chairs and stuff like that they battle as well you know so
00:47:03
um but the thing is you know that's a short period of one's person's life
00:47:07
where the wheel the the stroller or the push chair goes out because the child grows
00:47:12
well before for me now until my my dying day I'm going to be I have to have some form of mode of Transport
00:47:20
whether because you what people don't realize is with people with prosthetics
00:47:24
there's a limit of how far you can walk in them because it's exhausting you know
00:47:30
you don't you don't think of people who've got Prosthetics are just walking
00:47:33
around I mean double amputee are just walking around cat they are one or two but
00:47:38
you can't walk like five six hundred meters you did yeah because you're using
00:47:43
so much energy um and not so much from a walking point of view but if you think about if you just
00:47:50
think of key street now they've got all these different surfaces and everything
00:47:53
I get walking with prosthetics you have to actually mentally be engaged in where
00:47:58
you're walking because you've got to actually you can't just stroll along and
00:48:03
let your your natural features you've got to actually be engaged okay there is
00:48:07
a different surface there you've got a feel for it and so you mean it's not
00:48:11
something I would have ever thought of mentally is it's draining how do you mean stuff it's like tiles you might
00:48:17
slide on them yeah yeah so you know the thing is you've got to be mindful of
00:48:22
where your foot is going to go and and what kind of surface so when you're walking on Prosthetics you can feel the
00:48:27
difference between grass and and and carpet and and floor and concrete you can feel all those difference
00:48:33
um and all of them come with different slip you know and the way the micro processors work on the on the electronic
00:48:40
knees um because they they take a lot of that thinking out but you've still you've
00:48:45
still got to be looking ahead and because you've got something false underneath you've still got to be
00:48:51
feeling for it and so it's a mental game as well as a physical game so singular
00:48:56
amputees can get away with it because they've got one good leg that they can
00:48:59
actually rely on that day but when it comes to double entities above the knee it's it's a completely different and
00:49:06
there's there's a couple of guys in the states who you know they've run half
00:49:10
marathons in in you know double amputee above run off marathon on on Prosthetics you know but they've
00:49:17
they've taught their bodies to run but you know they they're they're a
00:49:22
millisecond away of of falling every single time because they've got to actually make sure that that blade comes
00:49:29
right back in the right place and everything like that it's it's yeah it's
00:49:32
exhausting so if you think somebody walking a kilometer just naturally and then somebody walking a kilometer
00:49:40
with prosthetics a guy who's prosthetic she's probably looking 300 400 more
00:49:45
just to do a kilometer so prosthetics for me the way that I've got my Prosthetics now is to be able to get out
00:49:52
the car go into a shop maybe buy a coffee and then come back and get in that and get
00:49:57
back in the car it's not to get in put my Prosthetics on and and stroll around
00:50:02
the more for two hours do you know what I mean you don't strike me some more red
00:50:07
anyway it'd be nice to have that option yeah yeah it's it's a yeah exactly you know
00:50:12
you have that option of of um of just of doing something because everything has to be planned in our lives I just like
00:50:20
to be able to do something off the cuff or just you know just without even have to thinking about it enough and if you
00:50:27
get there and there's a couple of stairs you don't want to go oh now how do we do
00:50:32
this you know yeah so we went to a vet not so long ago because our dog Baxter and I would have thought oh most vets
00:50:39
you know they were they went upstairs you know I must get to this place and there's like six stairs up into and I so
00:50:46
luckily this chair that I'm sitting on breaks down into four pieces so what we
00:50:50
did is I you know we opened the boot and and kessen took uh took the chair out and she broke it down and and I climbed
00:50:58
up the stairs on my backside and then she brought the chair up and and you know that kind of thing people just you
00:51:04
know and I'm I'm thinking man you know it's a public place it's a it's
00:51:11
it's open to everybody and this is the whole thing that we face all the time is
00:51:17
um there's a well-known um Steakhouse in Auckland that people in wheelchairs had to go through the
00:51:24
kitchen to get into into because everybody else could go up the steps and you know people at wheelchairs going
00:51:30
through the kitchen and I've been through yeah you know they always say oh we've got exes and you go gotta go
00:51:35
through the back door just I've actually just done a course where everybody else
00:51:39
was able to sit on the deck and have lunch on the deck but I wasn't able because there was a step
00:51:45
um luckily three days in they made a ramp that I could get down onto the deck but you know at in this day and age
00:51:52
hotels and stuff like that shouldn't actually be it should be it should be mandatory yeah yeah and I I must admire
00:51:59
I feel terrible about this I've never really noticed and I suppose you were the same before
00:52:03
um yes probably yeah mindful of that now yeah but it's um a lot yeah a lot of
00:52:08
people who've come into who who live in my life now they're quite mindful of it
00:52:13
um I know that my neuropsyche's he's always looking at it now from a different angle yeah yeah are you um
00:52:20
how do I put this um I I spoke to a guy on my podcast a couple of weeks ago called Brad smailer
00:52:27
who's um an amazing New Zealander he was he was a wakeboarder one of the best
00:52:31
wakeboarders in the world and he he's uh tetraplegic yeah yeah um but he he he he got his injury doing
00:52:39
it doing a stunt and landing on his neck and on his back on the on the ramp the wrong way so it was it was it was his
00:52:45
own it was his own doing yours on the other hand was not your own doing do you have a grudge on anyone you're
00:52:52
mad at anyone you're not better no because it yeah what's the point yeah
00:52:57
then you're going to get angry and you get depressed and you're gonna be
00:53:01
thinking about ugly person and nobody's it's so easy like when you have to go
00:53:05
around the back of a restaurant and you're going through the kitchen it'd be
00:53:08
easy to point the fingers yeah the thing is is when you look at the the incident
00:53:13
involved um there's a lot of a lot of stuff that went on it's just you know that's just
00:53:19
unfortunate that um it's if you're gonna be bitter and twisted about it then you're going to be
00:53:27
better interested in who's going to want to actually who's going to want to be
00:53:30
around a bit nobody lies better and trusted people you know and the thing is you know you've you've only got you've
00:53:37
only got one life and you've just got to actually you've got to enjoy you know you've been
00:53:43
throwing this this curveball or you've been throwing this you've been thrown
00:53:48
into a bunch of eggs and and you've got to actually decide what kind of egg you're going to be you're going to be a
00:53:52
good egg or bad egg and at the end of the day um good eggs are better than bad eggs put
00:53:59
it that way people people will want to help a person who's who's got a better
00:54:05
attitude nobody likes coffee you know I mean you've all been in the workplace
00:54:08
when the person the person who's got the bad attitude nobody wants to deal with
00:54:12
them nobody wants to be their mate um this drags everyone exactly so you know and we haven't got time to be you
00:54:20
know time's going and with this virus that's going on it's it's really
00:54:24
knocking all the events that you want to do I'm just got an email this morning
00:54:29
that another event's been canceled and I'm uh because I haven't you know like
00:54:34
you you asked me how old I was and I've got things that I want to achieve yeah
00:54:37
yeah um and I feel that by all these things being canceled is my what I want to achieve I'm I'm not going to get there
00:54:47
because you know we've missed out what two years of of racing to a certain extent
00:54:54
um the only good thing is that we can get more training in it but uh glass apple yeah yeah but the
00:55:01
thing is it's it is frustrating that you know all these things but you know we
00:55:05
were lucky to get the Walker Marathon undone yeah have you always been a good egg or you've become a beard since uh
00:55:12
there's times when I've been a grumpy egg but those those times um those times are there's a reasons to be
00:55:21
grumpy eggs but I'll be I'll be honest the last couple of the last year that I was
00:55:28
living in South Africa I was a grumpy egg I wasn't happy about being there um so yeah getting here was was awesome
00:55:38
um but yeah no I remember no oh frustrated egg more than that grumpy egg yeah um you know like my mum I'd like to go
00:55:47
and visit my mum and she lives in Australia and we can't do that at the moment and she's not getting any younger
00:55:53
because I'm not getting any younger so I know she's not getting any younger so
00:55:56
you're only 11. yeah but um no I I I like to think that I'm I'm a good egg yeah
00:56:05
um yeah so well I think you are that's probably a good place to end up yeah yeah um yeah and Winston motivational
00:56:12
and don't shoot me yeah inspirational I feel like you should own that and wear it that's not something
00:56:18
you should be embarrassed about it it's a compliment yeah it's hard it's hard to
00:56:23
do that but I you know I'd I'd really like to be nine as somebody who motivates people and get stuff done yeah
00:56:29
you really are and I suppose if you're going with that good egg versus Bad Egg
00:56:33
thing I mean this this accident's given you the opportunity to do that oh yeah
00:56:36
no I think I think before I used to help people before the incident yeah with running and stuff like that yeah and
00:56:43
motivating people to to get off their mums and do stuff so not doing anything different that's why I probably find the
00:56:50
inspirational stuff a little bit I like to be like motivate people you know yeah
00:56:54
well I feel like you're doing both those things even though the tags don't
00:56:57
necessarily sit comfortably with you hey thanks so much for your time absolutely
00:57:01
Jim thank you