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When I started writing my PhD, work on my PhD, and I started interviewing prison officers
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uh because I it was on the history of the maximum security prison. So, I was interviewing prison officers that had
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been prison officers in the '50s and '40s. It was from in the post-war period
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I focused on. Um I got to talk to a lot of guys. I realized that, you know, you build up this image of this evil
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person. It's like you you'd be the same if you're a terrorist, really. I suppose
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the IRA had that mentality as well. You develop it. And and coppers have the same mentality about criminals. You see,
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it's them and us. Um and then I realized, well, you know, they're just actually human beings like
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us and Doing a job. >> And doing their job.