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Runners only with Dom Harvey and Duncan Garner. Hey mate, how's things going? Good. I'm I'm so pleased you
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turned up. Um we had this we had this podcast booked for a few weeks ago and um you you just you didn't turn up this
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morning. I had my camera guy set up. I had you set up. I also had my mom set up. I'm like, I've got Duncan coming,
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but I don't know if he's going to turn up. So mom was like an emergency backup
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guest, but you were here. So I'm that unreliable. So the first time I was I was I was pumped and ready
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to come. I blame media works right at the start cuz they scheduled it happens to me. What what happens to me is um
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okay so I won't do I won't schedule anything for a while and I'll schedule
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this one. Okay, I better I bet I'll do I'll say yes to this. So I scheduled it
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and guess what every bastard possible would then organize meetings without knowing I had this meeting. So yeah, I
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blame Leon. Leon Leon Rat that's the he's the um one of the executives at Media Works. Okay.
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Um yeah. So, oh, well, since we're there already, maybe we start there. So, um,
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today FM, um, that's the thing you've most recently sort of been in the headlines for, I guess. Uh, it was a
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talk station you were working at, part of Media Works from 9:00 a.m. to midday, and then it was just, um, sort of cut
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off the air and it was, um, it was brutal when there was a voice break with you and the breakfast announcer, To
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O'Brien. Um, she said, what did she say? They they [ __ ] us. They [ __ ] us. Yeah. It was raw.
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Um, and you said it's betrayal. And then the station was taken off the air and
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music was playing a short time short time later. It's probably still on YouTube like you that stuff lingers
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around forever. I think it might be part of history. Yeah. Now but but your um so yeah. Yeah. Tell us
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tell me about that day. So um the the funny thing is the night before I was I got a um an email from
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from a guy in um to a father a listener a caller to a to to my show. He his son was almost abducted that that afternoon
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from school from a school bus. He rang the cops. Then he emailed me. He said, "You're the second guy I've thought
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about. Uh, this is [ __ ] shocking in this country. What do you think, Duncan?" And I middle of the night, I
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emailed him back. You got to come on with me this morning. Let's talk about it. So, I was very excited for this day,
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you know, and I know I even arrived at work a little bit early because um which is unlike me. And I had I I had this guy
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Nick the father lined up ready to go. And I arrived at the office. I saw Dallas Goni across the um the the the
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desk and I gave him a little fist bump like you know I'm I'm early you prick
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you know because they give Dallas the boss the boss of today. So I gave him a little fist bump and he sort
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of raised his eyebrows at me. I thought hey is he going to share my passion for this story and this outrage of some
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bastard trying to abduct an 11-year-old you know and so then I went into his office and he's um I think something's
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going down. I'm not sure what it is. He said so there was something happening
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but he wasn't quite sure. He knew there was a meeting at lunchtime. Just get
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ready for it. You know, there's something to do with the station. Hopefully, we'll be okay. And I thought,
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was he what was he telling me? You know, I was a bit confused. So, I went in with
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Tover to do a breakfast debate at 10 to 9. And I looked at her and she looked at
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me. And then I got a text message from the interim chief executive of Media Works saying, "I want to see you in my
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office if I can after your show today midday." And suddenly the Lego was being
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built. You could see the picture, right? Yeah. Shit's going shit's going down, you
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know. M um and we flew threw out the debate topic whatever it was and we said something's up. We went public on it and
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then at 9:00 I took over and did my show. I was trying to do the right thing professionally and people people
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understood and they started bringing in hey man I hope you guys don't go and
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then to crashed through the studio back and said we're [ __ ] and everyone just
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came in they were crying. So that was all over. They brought up the music. One guy actually rang me the last call I
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got. He'd rang me the day earlier abusing me for for being me. And then he rang back said, "Oh my god, you're
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going." And so he was he seemed he seemed quite generally um upset about it. We came off air.
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People are just It's almost like, you know, we'd had like a taking nothing
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away from Christ Church earthquake, but there'd been an earthquake in our lives,
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you know, a really big shake and we it's it's Yeah, it's unsettling.
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Um, we got taken to we got taken to a meeting and we got told there's two hours consult we're going to consult you
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for 2 hours and come back come back it's all over and we went down had a couple of beers
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downstairs and left the building. We have and most of them haven't been back since.
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Yeah. And then so this is the weekend after that. What's that like? You you wrote a column that weekend, didn't you?
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So I'm in um I'm at home um with Buster. He's your son. How old is he? 13.
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He's 12. He's 12. Yeah. Thinks he's 15 anyway. So, and in fact, I went I'll
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take you back a bit. I I went to pick him up from school and um he came out looking a bit worried
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and I thought, "What does he know?" Of course, it's been through social media.
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Kids are on social media. You know, he's still and he he hops in the car. I said,
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"Oh, I got something to tell you." He goes, "I know. Are you going to be all
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right? You've lost your job." And his eyes sort of welled up a bit and I see
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the he's a he's a he's he's a great great boy. boy, I love him so much, but
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he he worries sometimes about things. And you know, you try and protect your kids from don't show them anything in
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the emotion, but you know, I sort of weld up there a bit too. And we drove home. I said, "I'll be all right, mate.
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We'll be we'll be okay. We'll be okay. Are you sure, Dad?" I said, "Yep, yep.
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Yep. I've been here, done that. We'll be all right." And then I I still hadn't spoke to my
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mom. She She was a You know, your mother's listen to you. And so mom had mom had had heard I didn't get to my mom
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till Friday night. This was Thursday, remember? Two days. I couldn't get to her. My phone was going crazy. U I had
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to go to rugby practice that night with my son. So I drive out. We're talking to
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rugby practice. All the parents, you know, because it wasn't a very private dismissal. This was a public execution
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as such, you know. Yeah. So here I am. Hi to the parents, you know, just out of this rugby team.
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They're looking at me. Yeah. It must be a weird feeling cuz you you've got a recognizable face and
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everyone knows what you've been through. And I suppose it was all it was all in the media. You
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didn't have to you couldn't you been in a cave if you if you hadn't seen it. So,
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you know, I went to her 50th birthday that weekend and I left I left because um I just I just just couldn't handle
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all my mates at the 50th, you know, lining up to talk about it. U there's so
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much support, you know, because once you become a bit of a mart like that as a as
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a as a as a station, there's so much more support for it. You know, finally someone else does, you know, um we we
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needed you. But but so and but I wrote that column on the afternoon on the Saturday
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afternoon. It took me five hours. I tears in my eyes through the whole 5 hours and um uh Buster kept going, "What
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are you doing, Dad?" I said, "I'm just doing some work." He goes, "You don't
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have a job." I said, "I'm just whacking out this column." And anyway, so I put
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it out there. I put my I put my email at the bottom of it, private email. And that's how I got hold of you.
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Yeah, that's right. And the next would you not got hold of me otherwise? I wouldn't know how to it was anyway. So
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So um then I got like hundreds of emails. People sent me really quality emails, not just um oneliners, but they
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were I remember when you said this 6 months ago about your dad or something and you know New Zealanders are good
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people. Yeah. Really good people and and they like the underdog and they don't like it. They
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don't like when they think something's unfair and people have been treated
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badly. So yeah. Oh, rough time. Rough time. Have you Have you you mentioned you were writing
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the article with tears in your eyes and you were crying with your son Buster. Do
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you um have you always been quite an emotional guy or is that something that sort of crept up with you with age?
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Yeah, I think um I think more less so age but more so events. So I lost my dad 13 years ago to cancer. You know I lay
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under the bed of his hospice bed when he died. So I carry that heavily. Here's my
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best mate hard case guy. You know you are a result of you know you are um I've
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got you know kids just been through a divorce. Um I was selling the house. The house was about to go as well. So there
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all these things were were were sort of crumbling around me and the job was just
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one that I hadn't counted on lo. Oh, that's gone, too. Cool. No wife, no
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house, no job. What's next? Yeah. Get the car rebuilt. So, um, have you have you always been, um, quite
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resilient or do you think you've you've sort of built it over the You know, I've compartmentalized all my
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life. Um, and what I do is I put things into It's a really good question. Um,
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have you thought about being on radio? Hey, so I compartmentalize, right? So, I compartmentalize. I I put I just if
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something's if something's a really big issue, I I'll put it up there on the
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shelf and I'll deal with that when I get to it. So, I compartmentalize and that's
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how I've managed to cope through um marriage breakup, through um you know, losing the kids to Oakland or you know,
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having to having to chase my kids and um through um um dealing with a marriage breakup, then my wife going to
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Wellington and I'm I'm in Oakland with my child, Buster. You know, he's me, you
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know. Yeah. I'm launching the A.M. show. We got to be there at 3:00 a.m. and I've
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got a seven-y old boy at home with me, you know. M um yeah, what do you mean compartmentalize?
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Well, there's an issue, I deal with it. Yeah. Um might park it and then I'll cuz I have something that
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I have to address immediately that's like today's work, you know, or today's
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show or something. So, I'll deal with that and then I'll address that when I
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can get to it. There's no point in trying to address eight balls in the air at the same time
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cuz you you won't do anything well. Yeah. It's funny funny you said that. I
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had Susie Ko on the podcast and she talked about the same thing. She was dealing with like a miscarriage.
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Um and she just sort of worked through. She was like she she parked it to one side. She said, "You know, I had
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commitments to meet, so I just had to keep on keeping on." And I knew that I
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had to deal with it, but I deal dealt with it once the job was done. Correct. Yeah.
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Uh and so and so you did. And then there's co dealing with the isolation, all that sort of stuff.
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Um man, you've been through a lot. Man, I I got arrested. Did you? I got arrested. Yeah. For um wrongfully
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arrested. I was playing rugby. So my wife and I stood up, right? And um she had trespassed me from her house because
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I dropped my son off at the front door when it was wet. He had a broken ankle from rugby and so I went too close to
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the house apparently. Right. So it was quite an acrimonious split. It has become that. And um sadly and um
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so she cops turned up about 6 weeks later and issued me a trespass notice because it was in CO. So I said, "Okay,
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so you can't you you can trespass anyone you like. you know, you trespass you,
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you can trespass me. So, I trespassed and then a couple of months later, she where she was living, she needed to um I
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don't think I've spoken about this. She needed her lawns done to, you know,
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inspection and I she said, "Can you come and do them?" So, I went around to her
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house, mowed her lawns. Didn't think much of it. 6 weeks later, I had police come to the street where I
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was living, my house. I was playing rugby out the front um with my son and other couple of mates. And the police
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came down the street. I thought they come down to see this gang member who lives down our street. Oh, you got he's
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in the [ __ ] again. They got a police parked right in front of me and I said, "Hey guys and I'm with the ball and said
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Duncan." I said, "Yeah, mate. You're under arrest." I looked at the gang member's house and
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what for? And they said, "We'll tell you about it. I want the car." And I said,
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"I want a car." I said, "Hang on, mate." And they said I said, "Can I go get
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some?" I've got gum boots on, rugby shorts and I think t-shirt. Can I get
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some clothes and shoes on? They said, "We'll come with you." I said, "Hang on,
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mate. What's What's all this about?" This was on like a let's say it was a
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Wednesday, Tuesday night, 5:00, something like that. So, I hopped in the car and I was
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in front of in front of your son, too. Well, my my wife turned up. Okay. Me wife turned up at the same time.
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But your son saw this. Yeah. Yeah. But she she grabbed him and took away. Yeah. She'd been she'd been with the police
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all day, right? embarrassing in front of your son. Yeah. Humiliating, you know, and um so
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but I'll be right, mate. You hop in the car and I'm asking the the cop sits in
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the back with me and I said, "Mate, I'm not I'm not not a threat to you." And he
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goes, "Mate, give me more lip and I'll throw you in handcuffs." And I said,
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"Okay, I'll shut up." Arrive at Aenddale Police Station. Were you Were you Were you giving him a
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lip? Like, were you being No, I was really polite. I said, I ask what I'm doing, right?
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You know, as as as any I've always respected police officers. I've always respected and supported them
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in their job, you know. Um, so I get to the police station. I recognized all the
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officers there because I've done stories over the years with news and things,
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child abuse stories with there was one cop I went to school with, another cop that we did some child abuse work with.
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Anyway, they, "Hey, what are you doing?" I said, "I'm here." Went into a room and they said,
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"You'll need a lawyer. You go to court in the morning." I said, "What's this
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for? You you went to your wife's um house where she lives and you were under
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trespass, so you've preached trespass." I said, "No." I said, "You've got it
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wrong, haven't I?" He goes, "No, we save for a lawyer. Here's a list of lawyers."
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I said, "I'm not getting a lawyer." I said, he took my phone off, man. I said,
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"You need to ring my ex-wife and ask her one simple question. Was I invited
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around there?" I mow your lawns. They said, "Oh, oh." So, they locked me in this room.
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And um what? Like an interview room? Yeah. Locked it up. And so I sat in there. About an hour later, they came back and
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said, "Oh, here's your phone. Sorry. We'll give you lif we've we didn't ask
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that question." I said, "It's the most basic question, mate."
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And um well, we didn't ask and I said, "Oh, that's pathetic. I'm walking home.
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I don't want you. I don't want you. I don't want to lift." They said, "No, we
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have to. It's getting late." Cuz it was late now. It's 9:00 at night.
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And so they they dropped me home. I feel pissed off about it. Yeah. I haven't spoken about. I went to the AM
00:13:02
show the next day. Did the did the show. Oh, wow. I did the show and um See, how are you how are you? I mean, I
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I did radio for a number of years, so I know there's there's a there's a saying,
00:13:14
you got to leave your problems, leave your ego, leave leave whatever at the studio door, but it's easier. I mean, I
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never dealt with something like that. That's that was just that was um So, you go into the AM show the next
00:13:24
morning, you tell you tell Mark Richardson and the team there. No, no, but I told I always kept I always
00:13:30
let the bosses know what was going on, you know, in in the marriage because it got volatile and certain things. So I
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was and you know I've I was always told and taught well by my father about how
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to treat women. So so I I um I knew I I knew my I knew my story and so um I couldn't tell Mark or anything that day.
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I've subsequently told him of course. Yeah. So here I am jo whatever whatever we did that day. I
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went to my mom's and I just and I just about a week later I went to my mom's
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and I told her I said what I've been through last week. She just was mouth jaw dropped open. I
00:14:03
got a bit upset then, but um Oh, yeah. I'd be Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't fair. It wasn't right.
00:14:07
The cops, they needed to do they needed to understand the what the issue was, what sort of threat I am. Um um and get
00:14:14
the facts. But how did things get so bad? Uh I So, um I've you know, I've been
00:14:20
through a marriage breakup as well, JJ and I, but we we've we've got a wonderful relationship. You know, I um I
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I get emotional just even even talking about it. She's a great woman. I really love her.
00:14:28
Yeah. And she's she's been that good to me. Honestly, I I there there are times
00:14:33
in my life where I reckon um if it wasn't having her support, I reckon I would have I would have, you
00:14:38
know, maybe topped myself a couple of times really like she's been that, you know,ve I've thought about that at
00:14:43
times. Have you when like recently? No, just just um just been like I I don't want to say too much about I can't
00:14:50
speak for my wife, ex-wife. Um but um um so I supported her a lot and and so she but but she sometimes struggles with
00:15:05
um I know um like with bipolar and that sort of you know so there's that kind of
00:15:09
thing in the background in the background and so you're dealing with um you're not
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you're not dealing with something at face value you're dealing you know when
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they go up you go I got to go up and when they go down you must come down and sometimes you want to go down you know
00:15:21
you talk to people with that sort of issue and it's a problem. So, um it got
00:15:26
volatile because I felt like I felt um I was unjustly and it was unjustified the
00:15:32
treatment of me. Um I I I I threw everything into the marriage. I threw everything into into
00:15:37
the kids and everything and I I I I feel um I don't feel it was right. But yeah, it's it's very hard being in a
00:15:45
relationship with someone that's um you know got a got an illness like that like
00:15:48
bipolar or clinical depression. It's bloody hard. So I don't so I don't want
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to I don't want to I need to be careful what I say because I want to respect her
00:15:55
you know but um you know things like um kids being used as tools of manipulation or being
00:16:01
withheld or you know I have kids from a from a previous relationship too that you know can be used as pawns in this
00:16:09
game as well and I just it's just it's it's been a hot mess. Um and I've just
00:16:13
tried to keep my head you know try to get through it and out of it alive. Yeah to be honest.
00:16:18
Yeah. Choose your partner carefully. Um um do due diligence um be careful, be cautious, and do the
00:16:27
right things. But life is not black and white. It's gray. Like the older I get, the the more gray
00:16:32
it becomes. I'm the same. The older I get, the real the realize the less I know.
00:16:36
Yeah. When when I was in my 20ies, I'd see someone that was 50 and I'd think
00:16:41
they've got it all figured out. And then as you get older, you realize, no, everyone's just making it up as they go
00:16:46
along and everyone's dealing with [ __ ] You're right. It's like just like like
00:16:49
podcasting like we we I don't know anything about podcasting but I'm doing
00:16:52
one you are. Um so I I you know I have four kids and and I had marriage and and and the only license I've ever had is
00:17:01
one for a car. You know like I can go get a boat without a license. I had kids without a
00:17:06
license. I became a father with a license. I'm married without a license. you know, it's such a complex world
00:17:12
and there's all the pressure of the work stuff because we we're in an industry
00:17:15
where um it's not a job for life, mate. You know, you're not working in the
00:17:19
bank. You're not insurance agent, you know. So, so it's all these things. So,
00:17:22
you know, I've had a I've had a [ __ ] prick of a time, you know. I've had a really rough um
00:17:28
almost I don't know 10 years, but I can now see the light, you know. Can you?
00:17:33
Yeah, I can. Because And I've never felt freer, you know. I I don't have a wife.
00:17:37
I don't have and I'm not interested in in in relationships really, you know, I
00:17:41
need to get right in my head and I don't I don't and I have a job that's um I'm
00:17:45
podcasting for a living, you know. Um so there's a lot of good going enough good going on.
00:17:52
No, but I feel free. Yeah, I feel free. I feel like I've had progress. I hate paying lawyers money, but
00:17:59
no one loves that apart from the lawyers. Yeah. Yeah. Lawyers love that. So, so,
00:18:02
so I feel Dom, honestly, I feel when you gave me the opportunity to speak on here,
00:18:06
I I I wanted to take it and I'm sorry I didn't turn up the first time. I understand you had a work meeting.
00:18:12
Yeah. Yeah. That's got to take priority. Hate meetings. I'm Mr. Anti meeting, you
00:18:16
know. I I don't go to work to to mix and mingle. Like, I'll go there to do a job,
00:18:19
whack it out, and go. I'm not a water cooler guy, you know? Like, I just [ __ ] it. I see I
00:18:24
overhear [ __ ] at work and I'm thinking what do why people coming here to tell us this [ __ ] just
00:18:30
do your gig and go. Yeah. You know, you know this is [ __ ] Anyway, so that's me. That's it. So,
00:18:37
it's been a rough time, but I'm I'm I'm pretty tough. I'm pretty resilient and
00:18:41
I've got healthy kids and I live through them, you know, like my son's playing rugby, you know, his
00:18:46
first year in rugby. He's played league for eight years. And I I I just I love what he does, you
00:18:51
know. I'm I'm one of those guys, you know, like man, if you lower your body a
00:18:55
bit more, you'll smash them, you know. You get a bit low. I'm one of those
00:18:58
guys, you know. Yeah. I I know what I know what's possible. Yeah. For, you know, for young people now. And
00:19:05
and and would we do it all would we do it differently all over again? I bet we wouldn't.
00:19:10
Yeah. Maybe a couple of things, but not much. Yeah. I mean, this is life. This is this
00:19:14
is the navigation of life. Yeah. Like, you know, you need to get to the end of your life and have rich stories.
00:19:19
uh really a great group of friends and um have had a wholesome, you know, the things I develop sometimes are the
00:19:26
mistakes because [ __ ] it was fun making them and it was a bloody horrific on the
00:19:29
back end of them. But I tell you what, when I catch up with my mates, when I when I catch up with my mates and we
00:19:36
reminisce, holy [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah. So, um so you so you've got four kids. You got two kids to uh for
00:19:44
Yeah. I got um girls to me and um I got I got a son in Fer and I got Max that was a short relationship.
00:19:50
Was it wasn't Yeah, very short. Uh he's a good boy. Yeah, very good boy.
00:19:54
Have you have you would you say you've been lucky in love or unlucky in love?
00:19:58
What do you reckon? So So Mihang Forbes, you weren't um married but you were 10 years more or
00:20:03
less a marriage. She's really she's really um amazing person. Yeah. What happened there? Just run its
00:20:08
course. Uh we g her apart cuz we're working so hard. I was running around the press
00:20:14
gallery. She was running around, you know, she'd come from Mai Mai media to mainstream media and was forging away.
00:20:19
We had two young kids. Pressure. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, relationships are hard. Drunk too much. Drunk too much, you
00:20:25
know, back then, you know. Oh, cuz you were in Parliament. Yeah, man. It was madness. And I was
00:20:28
just making my way through, you know. Yeah. Um, you know, some of the days I when I
00:20:32
was working for the homes program, I had two little girls at home and I'd leave 7
00:20:36
in the morning and get home at 8:30 at night. you know, it's 5 days a week, you
00:20:40
know, and you'd be flying around the world of the country, wherever you were,
00:20:43
went to Brazil, Peter Blake died, all that stuff, and you still got two little girls, you know, and my parents were
00:20:48
fantastic. They moved to Wellington. They've sort of moved wherever we've
00:20:50
gone. Really um really loyal, you know, and and and and they see past the mistakes.
00:20:57
Oh, they they'll mark them down, give me an elbow. But um but no one's perfect,
00:21:03
you know, people that claim sort of perfection. I love seeing those meeting those people because you just pull them
00:21:08
apart. Yeah. Just full of [ __ ] Oh, there's so many people, especially online that are holier than thou.
00:21:13
Oh, well. Yeah. Don't read the comments. Don't read the comments. I say to my mom
00:21:17
who's, you know, sits at home and reads the stuff, "Mom, that's not true."
00:21:21
"Yeah, but they said that you had a brown jacket on." And I said, "But mom,
00:21:24
it was orange." But they said brown. Mom, that's not true. Don't believe
00:21:31
Don't believe what someone else's [ __ ] and don't believe your own.
00:21:35
you know, don't we're only as good as, you know, your last thing you did. And
00:21:40
we all end up we could all end up in a sausage factory, you know. Yeah. But also, um I I think fail
00:21:45
failure is good. That's something I was just [ __ ] scared of failure earlier on.
00:21:49
And I realiz I fear it. Do you? But it's so important though because that's where you got to fail
00:21:53
before you succeed at most things. I bet you I bet you were a [ __ ] journalist when you first started. I bet you failed
00:21:58
heaps. I wouldn't go that far, mate. Um I did. I'll tell you a story about
00:22:03
it. Rodney Hyde. I I tried to put a hit on Rodney Hyde. I was just a parliament.
00:22:07
I was 20 21 when I went 21 when I got to parliament. That's young. Really young.
00:22:11
That is young. Younger than the mayor of Gore. Who lasted longer anyway? So, so he is
00:22:18
younger from is I mean silly old chief executive. He can't handle it, you know.
00:22:23
Anyway, um and Rodney Hyde um who I'd been working closely with on other stories. I turned around did a hit on
00:22:29
him or something and he called me down to just outside parliament where the parliamentarians sit and I went into the
00:22:34
chamber there and he sat me down and he pulls out this script which was my script for the night before with this
00:22:39
red marks all through it. Each red mark was a mistake was a factual error and he
00:22:44
had 12 red lines in a one page and I thought [ __ ] Now, that was my wake up call to get better, to be better, and to
00:22:53
realize that in parliament there were 36 press secretaries at the time. They were
00:22:56
all checking your work and you're one person. So, you had the eyes of the state on you at any one time. You were
00:23:02
you were you were you were you were being observed everything you did. So, that was a great that was great. And but
00:23:06
Rodney Hyde didn't go to the broadcasting stands authority and try and nail me. He taught me a lesson.
00:23:12
Brilliant. Isn't that brilliant? That's really And I'll never That was 30 years ago. So he
00:23:16
could he could have thrown you under the bus if he Yeah. But he knew that um I might be I
00:23:21
was young. Didn't want to bruise bruise me, wanted me to learn and he realized that hey
00:23:26
um he obviously liked me to a point and he thought I'm going to work on and off
00:23:31
with this guy throughout a lifetime. This is a small country and in a small world you come across people all the
00:23:35
time. Uh and he did it the right way. I'll never forget it. Yeah, that's really nice.
00:23:40
It's good, eh? Yeah. I I want to get into all the parliament stuff. I feel like we've gone
00:23:44
straight into some heavy [ __ ] Haven't we? Should we wind it back and go with some
00:23:47
um fun stuff first? Um Well, it was all fun. I mean, it was Oh, no. It's just the the complexities
00:23:54
of life. Oh, yes. It's dark and deep and Yeah. But but but you know, you talked about,
00:23:59
you know, the possibility of of taking your own life and that alarmed me because I've thought about that a couple
00:24:04
times. If you want, we don't talk about fun stuff. This is dark stuff. And I I
00:24:07
know people who've taken their life. Yeah. um as we all do and it's it's a to
00:24:11
me I've got a mate of mine who played softball for New Zealand for 13 years in
00:24:15
that brilliant team that didn't get the recognition great sportsman and smart
00:24:19
guy and he said to me you know he's been alongside me in the last 10 years especially he says to me um
00:24:27
never look for a permanent solution to what is a temporary problem and you know he'd often say that to me
00:24:34
as I wanted to jump in the car and storm out to my ex-wife house and have it out
00:24:37
with her about something you know why can't when I get access to my son, you
00:24:39
know, why you playing games over this two weeks, you know, the holidays, whatever.
00:24:42
And he said, not worth it, breathe. And I learned to walk away from from trouble. So, so I learned to really
00:24:49
walk away. You know, one night when when we went out, we went out and I didn't
00:24:54
want to go out this function. And I thought this person that I was with was really racist to the taxi driver and
00:24:59
I and I and this person was my wife and and so we had it out. We had nostalgia about it and and I ended up coping, you
00:25:05
know, I got smacked in the head that night, right? And so I told TV3 about all this, but I learned to walk away as
00:25:12
soon as I was hit and I took about 20 hits. I put my hands from your partner. Yeah. Yeah. And I I put my hands out at
00:25:17
the end of it and I, you know, she thought I was filming, you see, and I just put my hands up and I walked away
00:25:21
and went down to my mate's house to save the night because if I touched her, the
00:25:25
headline the next day is, "Oh yeah, you're Tony Beach. Tony, I said that." And after she hit me, I
00:25:32
said, "I'm a I'm a I'm I'm a hero. I'm a Kiwi. I'm a male hero."
00:25:35
And that really pissed her off even more because I didn't touch you and you've just you just banged me up 20
00:25:41
times. So, it's those things. I've never speak spoken about that before. It's such
00:25:45
private personal stuff, but it's it's it's it's what's happened to me.
00:25:50
You know, you can't say, "Oh, well, I'll cop my can't compartmentalize that
00:25:53
forever." But you can't. If if you went to the police with that, do you think they'd take it seriously or
00:25:58
do you think they'd be like, "Come on, mate. Come on. you can handle it.
00:26:01
Yeah. Well, if that's the case, it's domestic it's domestic violence.
00:26:03
It is domestic violence. And I was speaking to um a woman yesterday on my podcast um who is an ex gang member
00:26:09
who's who was beaten up terribly and who who who who came good and she's an
00:26:14
amazing woman. She works in domestic violence. She said to me yesterday and she's been very loyal to me.
00:26:19
Baby Mo who was killed is her mother. It's his mother. Okay. And she said to me, "If a woman hits a
00:26:24
man, it's it's violence." So, I don't think the police would take
00:26:27
me seriously. And my ex-wife was relying on that too. Oh, you're not going to go,
00:26:30
you [ __ ] you know. And I'm disappointed that the police I think that's what how they'd take it. They
00:26:36
would say publicly that they would take it seriously. I don't know if they would
00:26:39
say, you know, if if if your ex was um sitting here in the chair for the podcast now, what
00:26:44
would she what would she say your flaws are? She wouldn't have walked in. She
00:26:48
wouldn't have come through the door. She'd say that I'm um well well she'd
00:26:52
say I'm everything bad under the sun. Yeah. Um but depends on what day you got her
00:26:55
on. might say that I'm I'm I'm a good guy and a great dad and a real great provider and um and um
00:27:01
she regrets it all. Or she might say, "Oh, he's a um narcissistic prick."
00:27:07
You know, one day I got home from from work and there was a thing in the said 20 20 reasons to 20 20 ways to spot a
00:27:14
narcissist. She'd cut it out and put it on my Are you a narcissist? Well, what's a narcissist? You know,
00:27:20
I don't know. I feel like anyone that's in this the sort of um I feel anyone might be
00:27:24
Yeah. Anyone that's in the sort of any sort of performance medium probably has
00:27:29
like do I have narcissistic traits I mean probably I mean I think I think I think
00:27:33
men um possibly have when I looked at the list I thought man back at you baby. Yeah.
00:27:40
Um yeah I I I walk away from trouble now and I always did with her too. Um I can proudly say that you know I
00:27:47
walked away and and I'd go to the top of the road and back and breathe. Don't
00:27:51
send the email you think I've got a whole host of emails at home but I never
00:27:54
sent you know because wake up the next day do you wish you'd sent it or do you
00:27:58
regret sending it? That's that's crucial that day. Yeah. So it's but yeah best to write something
00:28:02
and then just sit on it. Leave Leave it in your I've written some nasty bastard emails,
00:28:06
you know, and that's the great thing is they're just sitting in the drafts.
00:28:09
You don't accidentally send them. Yeah. Wow. God, you've been through some [ __ ]
00:28:14
Oh yeah. It's um it's just the it's the it's the uncertain being in a
00:28:18
relationship that's um that's going downhill and and ending and then having
00:28:22
a long 5-year divorce period, you know, it's really unsettling and it's not fair
00:28:26
on the kids and it's it's not fair on on either the either of us as well. Co
00:28:30
didn't help cuz that extended things through and um it's just I hope that we can
00:28:36
I hope we can draw a line under it and and and we're going to have to move. Time heals a lot of wounds e so maybe
00:28:41
you'll be amicable in time. It's just an adjustment period to the narcissist would um would not get over
00:28:46
it. So So I'll get over it. So um yes. So there was an article online a couple of weeks ago about you
00:28:52
living at your mom's house at the moment. Is that is that sort of a beat up or
00:28:55
Have you been Have you met my mom? I've seen her in like women's magazines
00:28:58
and stuff. Same age. She love you saying that. Same age as my similar age to my mom.
00:29:03
Same name as my mom and seems like a similar relationship. Like my mom listens to every single episode of the
00:29:07
podcast I do. They're longsuffering, aren't they? Yeah, they are. Aren't they? I mean, but
00:29:12
they someone has to love us. And some others. My mom. Um, what was your question? My mom. So, so living
00:29:20
home with your mom. Is that is that a bit of a beat up? No. Feel like a sensationalist sort of
00:29:23
headline. Yeah, that was true. Right. Um, so you're there out of necessity. Oh, I'm there because um well, I'm there
00:29:30
because I've sold my house and I know what I want to get and I need to go up
00:29:36
north to get it and to do the deal. And I'm yet to um yet to get up there basically. So as soon as I can get
00:29:43
something I want to get some land. I love fishing. I love the hunting in the sea and outdoors. So I want to head to
00:29:50
the hook. So I want to put um um I want to get some land. I've seen some land up
00:29:54
there that I want to but I'm doing it with a mate. So we just I need to get up there see and see these
00:29:59
people and um and do the deal. So rather than move moving house was just traumatic. You know, the guy that bought
00:30:06
the house stood outside all day with his hands crossed waiting for me to go, you
00:30:09
know, and I said to him, "Mate, it's not you're not going to it's not going to
00:30:12
happen any quicker with you standing there." I had a few mates around there
00:30:15
helping me and they were Was this like settlement day or Yeah. It was pretty ugly, you know. I
00:30:19
had a few mates around there who were sort of going, "Oh, what do you want us
00:30:21
to do here?" And I said, "Just make sure he doesn't come near me cuz this is this
00:30:24
is getting ugly." They came around and they were moaning about they came around
00:30:28
the day before settlement and they moaning that there was stuff out out the front of the house on the boom. Well,
00:30:33
where the hell else am I going to [ __ ] put it? I'm waiting for the truck to turn up, you know, and they
00:30:37
wanted money off it. Just it was ugly. It was just bad timing, you know. Do do you just attract chaos?
00:30:42
I think so. But but but but it is like chaos is great because it keeps you busy. But you know, my mom thinks I'm
00:30:49
messy at home at the moment. I say, "Mom, I'm just keeping you busy. I'm
00:30:52
giving you purpose." you know, cuz my mom, she mothers me a bit, but she's
00:30:56
also old enough and wise enough and been around the clock enough and had a few enough drinks over the years to know
00:31:01
that um uh that stuff comes with life, you know, the ups and downs, you know, and you
00:31:07
know, she goes, "Oh, what's going to happen next to you?" I said, "I don't
00:31:08
know what else could happen, you know." And so, but she she just wants the best
00:31:13
for me. But, of course, um a lot of the stuff is out of your own own it's out of your ability to control
00:31:19
it sometimes. Only control what you can control and only worry about what you can worry about. Yeah.
00:31:23
Um there's no use I said to I don't want to hear this stuff from you. I don't
00:31:26
want to be worried all the time. I'm all right with that. That's life, mom.
00:31:30
Life's not a white picket fence and perfection, you know. As much as we groomed it, we we we we
00:31:36
they tell us all this [ __ ] They should get rid of nursery rhymes and all that stuff. And as a young kid, cuz it's all
00:31:40
[ __ ] you know. So, how how long are you living with your mom for? Um is it a good is it a good environment?
00:31:46
I've had Dean Lonigan on the podcast. He lives with his mom by choice. Does he?
00:31:49
Yeah. His mom and his sister though, it's like a threestory townhouse, so they've each got their own floor.
00:31:54
See, this is actually So, um I don't know whether mom would be pleased to be
00:31:57
listening to this or not, but she certainly she knows what you do. And she might she might be considering that you
00:32:02
could put you've just laid an idea that I can start. Uh mom makes it really easy
00:32:07
for me, you know, cuz cuz we're we were there a lot anyway cuz mom we lost our I
00:32:11
lost my dad. She lost her husband and so she's on her own, right? Well, she's got
00:32:14
a bloke, but he's not there. He's not there now that I'm there. I keep saying
00:32:17
to him, it's nice room I got here, mate. So, so um so she loves us being there,
00:32:24
you know. She's had 13 years of silence and now the door opens three or four
00:32:28
times a day and it's it's me and Buster. It's like this is her pride and joy, you
00:32:32
know, especially Buster. Um and so she loves that. So, um I'm quite enjoying just the the home comfort
00:32:40
of being at home of all the familiar things around me. Um you know, of work. I can work there really in peace. you
00:32:45
know, I do a lot of the work there. Um, but I don't want to stay there forever.
00:32:50
I I'll get my money out of the house at some stage shortly and and move on. Yeah.
00:32:53
Yeah. How much money you expected from the house or was that too personal? Uh, or half of half of what's left.
00:32:58
Yeah. Did you have much of a mortgage on it? Not really. But so I sold in a in the
00:33:03
worst period possible, which which again I regret, but I had no choice. You know, I tried to buy the
00:33:07
house and I, you know, it wasn't accepted. Um, and my wife forced a sale through
00:33:12
the court, so we're selling. And the we we we launched when the market went up
00:33:18
75% in interest rates that you know the and that week that week the the breaks went on the market. No one turned up. I
00:33:25
spent cuz I did all the open homes cuz I'm living in the house. I I [ __ ] worked my ass off morning, noon, and
00:33:30
night for open homes to get the house ready. You try to maximize the price and um yeah, all house prices. It seems
00:33:34
great and and I don't have a huge mortgage. So, you know, we're going to
00:33:37
split a reasonable good sum of money. But when you split something in half, it doesn't buy you [ __ ]
00:33:43
You know, you take off lawyers fees. Hey, take off lawyers fees and any other debts you've got or whatever jointly,
00:33:48
which is not too bad. But I would have spent um 100 grand on lawyer. But you you must have earned some good
00:33:54
money over the years, right? Where's it gone? Have you not been smart with No, no, no. I I had four houses,
00:33:58
right? Yeah. So, I had two places up north. Yeah. I had two batches up north, place in
00:34:02
Australia and and um and a place here. Uh I've sold them all, right? You know, cuz legal action has been
00:34:08
expensive. I've been to the court for 4 years. I mean, at 800 bucks an hour for a
00:34:12
barristister, it just rinses you. But, um, I'm not destitute, don't get me
00:34:17
wrong. And I could go, Yeah. That's what I wondered about the the the click baity headline about you
00:34:22
living with your mom. It's not like it's not like rock bottom. No [ __ ] No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm
00:34:27
not, you know, I I can still eat, live, and I could put a if I needed to walk out there today, I could go and, you
00:34:33
know, either pick up a flat and put a all by house, you know. So, but I don't
00:34:38
want to rush into anything because everything's been such madness and especially losing the job and
00:34:42
everything. Just getting this the new job sort of up and running. The last thing I need to be doing is
00:34:48
overcommitting to a house or something. I'm not really and interest rates are
00:34:50
like if you coming up well if you have some money you put it on interest rate on a decent deposit right now.
00:34:55
Yeah. 5%. Well, all six. So, so that's where I'm at. I'm just I just need to let the
00:35:00
market settle, find a place and I also want to know where I want to be. Do I want to be up north? You want
00:35:06
to have a apartment in Oakuckland and a and a crib up north, you know, hunting lodge on hunting b.
00:35:12
Yeah. I hope you find happiness. I found it. Have you? Yeah. I'm I'm I'm
00:35:18
you know you're you're at peace. You're despite everything I've said on this
00:35:21
that I'm just offloading because you asked me the questions. But when I jump on my electric motorbike
00:35:26
that you've just seen downstairs, um that's freedom. That's a mental
00:35:29
health freedom. I I I get you should get one because I get you a cheap one. You get some you get you get you get you get
00:35:37
motor bike I mean and you get some air running through your head you know you get the breeze coming through your face
00:35:41
and and and I'll take the long way back to mom and she's far too close to work
00:35:44
you see so I'll go the down PY road and you know maybe going down Queen Street
00:35:48
on the it's whatever you know and all around the bays you get 50ks out of it
00:35:52
and it's it's good fun I feel I feel free you know I don't have to answer to
00:35:56
anyone um uh I love putting time and effort into the kids um I love broadcasting
00:36:03
still want what I do with with podcasting and I'm I'm and I got enough dough to go and grab something somewhere
00:36:09
maybe maybe not in Oakuckland cuz it's you know how big a mortgage do you want
00:36:13
at 50 you know that's that's another thing you know I I'm don't need fancy [ __ ] I I need stuff
00:36:18
that's that works um and that's useful I don't you know if I'm I wouldn't mind getting a upgrading
00:36:25
a boat you know getting a boat cuz we love fishing and we got a you know bit of a rubber ducky thing so yeah Just
00:36:33
those things. Yeah. Well, that's cool. Well, I'm I'm happy you're happy
00:36:37
at peace. Yeah. Um It's nice seeing you. Yeah. It's great seeing you, too. It's
00:36:41
It's great. We got We've been going for almost 40 minutes and haven't got
00:36:44
haven't got to any of the good stuff yet. I I want to go. I've told you heaps of good stuff.
00:36:47
I've told you heaps of good stuff. No, I mean like fun stuff. A lot of it's
00:36:50
been like quite quite heavy for you, but you're you know, there's um it's been a
00:36:54
glorious career and I think there's a lot worth reminiscing on and celebrating. So, first of all, um, so
00:36:59
you're you're born and raised in Oakland on the Northshore. Conservative banking
00:37:03
sort of family. Born in Wellington. Well, yeah. Born in Wellington. Um, and dad was in the bank
00:37:09
and they moved to Oakland when I was two. Um, dad was a banker, but didn't didn't he wanted to do his own. He
00:37:16
wanted to be an engineer, but his mom died when he was 12 at the beach in Gisman. And so, he was sent to St. Hence
00:37:22
and he couldn't really he wanted to be an engineer, you know, he wanted to build bridges and stuff and he he had a
00:37:26
great grades and he could have done that but his dad was a banker so he weren't
00:37:29
banking so he's in finance. So yeah, conservative parents, but also when I say conservative parents, they were
00:37:34
pretty loose as well. You know, we we we learned to drink with them, you know, we
00:37:37
were doing drinking games with our parents and we had 50 guys from Westlake Boys on our section we had down the
00:37:42
Corandle, you know, partying and drinking, you know, all our teenage years. So when I say conservative, you know,
00:37:48
Yeah. But so when you say to your parents, oh, I want to get into I want to um do a communication course. I want
00:37:53
to become a journalist, they back me. Yeah, they did. Yeah. Yeah. They they I mean dad understood
00:37:59
finance. They didn't understand the media, but they always backed me. You go
00:38:01
for it, you know, we support you and they didn't understand media, whatever,
00:38:04
but they just they went with it, you know. Mine were mine were much the same. Being a 16year-old old in Palmer North
00:38:10
wanting to get into radio, it seemed like the most outlandish thing ever, but they were they were fully supportive and
00:38:15
and um looking back now, I think, god, would I would I would I recommend the career now?
00:38:22
U for fun. I I've got the best the best people I've met are in the industry. you
00:38:27
know, guys like Mark Sainsbury, fun people, lifelong friends, Guy Spanel, those I mean, they are they are good
00:38:34
people and they're very talented people and but they're just solid, man. You
00:38:37
know, um and we've had some [ __ ] outrageous times as well, you know. Some real fun times.
00:38:42
Um did my parents know what I was getting into? No, I applied for university in Australia in case I missed
00:38:46
the one in Oakland because it was so competitive, you know. Um but I went to a class of 30 people. Two of them were
00:38:53
guys. The rest there was 28 women in this class. Why weren't the men applying? Lucy Hawkings was in there.
00:38:59
She's a BBC presenter. It's her her brother is missing in the Laf Lodge fire
00:39:04
in Wellington, you know. So I got to know this boy, you know, this guy, this this the brother of this. So yeah, um
00:39:10
I've had um a really journalism to me has been a hobby and I got paid, you know, well for a hobby and
00:39:19
I still consider that I haven't done a day's work in my life. I love it.
00:39:22
Yeah. You know, I love telling stories. I love scandal. I love um um breaking stories,
00:39:27
coups of politicians, rolling people. It's [ __ ] brilliant. And and and I've been right at that
00:39:34
right at the um um front and forefront of that, you know, parliamentary reporting, you know, hiring guys like
00:39:39
Patty Gar and Tover, you know, I was responsible for that. Um we got [ __ ] for hiring Patty, but you
00:39:44
know, I backed him, you know. Oh, yeah. Um yeah, I saw something on um Instagram just the other day. Yeah. a
00:39:51
moment on your podcast with um Patrick Gow and he he talked about something about distancing himself from you. What
00:39:58
did he mean by that? He thought that he was it was it was a real nice moment. By the
00:40:02
way, he's a great guy and complex guy. He thought he was he was too busy being
00:40:06
compared to me. So when I hired Patty, he got a contract with Mediworks. I gave him a separate contract between DG and
00:40:12
PG. 18 points he wanted sorted. So I had to protect him, look after him, make sure he wasn't exposed and never let him
00:40:18
fail. So as my dad was dying at the same time as Patty was just acknowledging that in the podcast saying thank you for
00:40:23
never letting me fail and I said you're welcome PG one of the great guys you
00:40:26
know the best people are complex people the most interesting people are complex people the most interesting people um
00:40:34
are some of the most difficult people but if you can get around all that um those people are fascinating you can
00:40:41
you can spend hours with these people and you don't know hours have gone you know
00:40:46
so um So you graduate and then you your first job as a sports reporter at TVNZ. Yeah.
00:40:52
Um so you're how old? Like 20 21. I was 20. I was cuz um I went to TVZ sport under Richard Beck. It was 1995
00:40:59
World Cup. Yeah. Interviewing Jonah and Colin Me and all this and it came time to be my birthday and um Richard Beck
00:41:05
the sports editor put on this big [ __ ] cake. So it was like you know he said I
00:41:10
was I was a [ __ ] So he put on this big chocolate [ __ ] cake. Um they they could see that I was um I
00:41:17
was really passionate about it. You know, I was really into it. This is all I want ever wanted to do. So they sent
00:41:21
me to Wellington under under Linda Clark in the press gallery parliament. First MMP election was the following year.
00:41:27
They said run his run this guy's bloody butt off, you know, he's he's almost too
00:41:31
keen. So I went there and there, you know, Bill Rston and all these oldtimes, you know, in the press gallery, you
00:41:36
know, [ __ ] even smelled old, you know, and um this was before MMP. This is first passed the post
00:41:43
and we were flying around around New Zealand with Bulger on planes and I got invited to his 60th birthday. Not that I
00:41:48
knew the guy, but I was a bloke and Bulier was, you know, he like bloke reporters. So I'd been at TVZ 6 minutes
00:41:53
and I was up there with all these oldtimes drinking whiskey with Bulier in his office with Winston Peters in in the
00:41:58
mid '90s and stuff. Uh I wasn't a whiskey man. Unreal. Oh, you f that in though,
00:42:03
wouldn't you? Peer pressure. Oh, I just downed it. Yeah. And um and um then ended up going out that night.
00:42:07
And it was raining and I fell into a pond and Courtney placed my only suit that I had was all crimped up and I went
00:42:13
home and I dried it and next day I went out to Bulges press conference out up a hut at some factory and I turned up with
00:42:18
this crimpy suit that was still damp and he looked at me and he sort of grinned.
00:42:22
He looked he looked 100% sweet. You no hangover, nothing. And I must have worn a hangover like a dog and I had this
00:42:27
half wet suit you know promised um you pull yourself together you know you know and he was to blame. It was his
00:42:35
birthday and so but I was 21 Dom. Yeah. So you you didn't have the tolerance that he had.
00:42:40
Well no I mean we we I played rugby. We had drinking sessions and done all that crap but but this was next level you
00:42:46
know and I was with Winston Peters you know the night that they had that fight with the girl and the and brava bar.
00:42:52
What's that? What's that? There was a fight one night. Some girl had to go Peters and one of Peters's
00:42:56
henchmen might have pushed her or something and she scraped back and there was a big dust up you know. I just
00:43:01
remember, you know, eating cheese rolls and just drinking watching the whole thing because we were there with Peters,
00:43:05
you know, we we were we were the night of the coalition talks and, you know, eight eight 10 weeks of that stuff.
00:43:10
Outrageous sort of length of time, but that's what it was then and you know, we
00:43:13
were running around and bloody on boats chasing him and all sorts of things. Were they Were they good years? Were
00:43:19
they fun years? You were there like 17 years, right? Did you stay Did you overstay your welcome?
00:43:25
Only by a year cuz I had to train Patty for that last year. Yeah. Did you Did you just love it? So you
00:43:30
wanted to stay there, you I was broken, you know. I I I did love when it just happens. It's it's it's um
00:43:35
it's the heart of where everything and and a small country like New Zealand everything all leads all roads lead back
00:43:40
to where the power is and the power is, you know, isn't Wellington in that base,
00:43:44
you know. Um so I just couldn't stop, you know, everything would be the same but
00:43:50
different. You know, not Winston Peters got quite repetitive with his stuff ups,
00:43:54
you know. I got sick of him saying yes when he went no and that sort of thing. that got a bit repetitive, you know, but
00:43:59
um parliament I mean they come and they go and it's fascinating new new it's
00:44:03
like sport winners losers you know aggression not aggression um tactics you know and and victories and and losses
00:44:10
and I loved it and I got to know a lot of politicians and um they're not all
00:44:14
bad people want the best not all bad people but they want the best for they want the
00:44:18
best um for themsel uh for themselves for their country um they just have different ways of getting
00:44:24
there you know um but a lot of them shouldn't be there. They let they eat their lunch. A lot of
00:44:29
them a lot of people don't contribute at all. There's only really a handful of
00:44:32
power brokers, you know, in each party and and and it's quite bland at the moment. Parliament, it's bland as all
00:44:37
money, you know. I mean, bring back Peter Dunn. I mean, I mean, Winston, I mean, the place is, you know,
00:44:44
it's two bland guys. Chris Hipkins, the prime minister, I spoke to him when he
00:44:49
was a student at Victoria University as part of a panel talking to them about media and politics. And I remember this
00:44:55
little guy, you know. Yeah. I think this is a sign that we're older. Yeah. This is a sign that we're old.
00:45:02
It's it's weird. There's weird milestones in your life where you realize um you see the All Black line up
00:45:06
and you're like, "Oh [ __ ] I'm older than all the All Blacks or police officers."
00:45:10
Yeah. Well, yeah. You're being arrested by some kid. Well, I have been or you know, you go to
00:45:16
the doctor and suddenly, you know, it's not uncommon for the doctor to be younger than what you are. It's uh
00:45:21
friends die. When your friends start to die, that hasn't happened yet. Um, but you know, we're in that zone
00:45:26
now. We're in the zone where you can drop dead. Yeah. Can I mean it would be
00:45:31
Would you have any Would you have any regrets? If you drop dead right now, how have you left it?
00:45:37
Yeah. Yeah. Of course, a few regrets. I I think um anyone that says they've got no
00:45:42
regrets is probably lying, don't you think? Of course they are. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone has, you know,
00:45:48
everyone has regrets. You haven't lived. If if you got no regrets, you haven't lived. M
00:45:53
you've you've wrapped yourself up in cotton wool and stayed, you know, locked
00:45:56
yourself in the shower. Yeah. You know, well then then that would be your regret, not actually living a full life.
00:46:03
Well, not leaving the bathroom. Yeah. So, um so the the parliament stuff, were you were you f would you say you're
00:46:08
friends with any of the politicians over the years? Like you mentioned drinking with Jim Bulier and Winston and that.
00:46:13
Were they friends or no? They you sort of keep them at your arms length. They're really familiar and and and
00:46:21
some of them would like to think that you're friends. And what's a friend?
00:46:24
Is a friend someone you catch up with regularly? Yep. A friend someone you talk to regularly? Yep. A friend is
00:46:30
someone or is a friend someone who's familiar and they pop into your life once every 10 years. When I'm my best
00:46:34
mate, uh, one of my best mates is overseas in Ireland. Now, he's always going to be a friend, right? We see each
00:46:41
other once every 10 years. Politicians aren't friends. Politicians are subjects. um you're
00:46:47
familiar with me. You get on and you like some of them more than others, right? Like when I lost the job, Jerry Brownie
00:46:51
text me. Um Annette King would text me. Um so, okay. You know, so it's so it's kind of like a
00:47:00
friendship, but you know that if you have to stab them or they have to stab you in the back, they will.
00:47:04
You got to nail them. Yeah. Look, you've got to always um be professional and and to the point where
00:47:11
you could either go out for dinner with them and talk to them and the next day you ask them. This is a job and and and
00:47:18
journalists who become friends with politicians and can no longer do their job properly are pointless.
00:47:24
Yeah. Yeah. Because you're you're too skewed. Yeah. You're absolutely pointless because you
00:47:29
are there for protecting them. So I wouldn't say any of them are friends and and and the best compliment
00:47:35
I ever received was from a guy in the Labour party, Mike Monroe, who was Helen Clark's boss. Uh Helen, no one's the
00:47:40
boss of her. Helen Clark's press secretary. and he said um someone asked him if I was biased. He goes, "This guy
00:47:46
loves blood if it's red or blue." So that's and that's what I tried to
00:47:50
talk to Patty about a lot too early on. Yeah. And you you you were there for like as I
00:47:54
said 17 years something like six election cycles. You were [ __ ] good at your job. Were you in hindsight do do
00:48:01
you look back and go I was I was I was a bully or I was you because you feral because you had to be or
00:48:08
Yeah. Because there's no other what's the other option being in Foster like
00:48:12
you know well no but what I mean is being being mediocre like you know this is the thing every night at 6:00 the
00:48:18
boss is your the guy that pays your salary is sitting in his office with TV3 TV1 in front of him right and in in fact
00:48:25
and we all are right so every night for 17 years you're being charged how much
00:48:32
pressure is that and I got to do a real tussle arm wrestle with Guy Espen who was a political editor when I was
00:48:37
political at three and so your work is judged every night. Who's got the scoop
00:48:41
tonight? It's [ __ ] just debilitating pressure. But but I thrive on that for some
00:48:47
reason. You know, I would I teach our guys how to strut past their office and pretend we've got something. So, you
00:48:52
know, and I and I and I call it psychological warfare. So, I'd look at them in the morning and say, "You'll be
00:48:58
regretting that 6:00 tonight, boys." You know, and and if I hadn't seen them for
00:49:03
the day, I'd be like, "Where the hell are these guys?" And if as far as one
00:49:06
one day I was at the at the hospital with my dad and the rumor got around that I had this big story that I was
00:49:11
working on. I was sitting next to my dad who was dying. But where he's gone that's what it's like this paranoid fear
00:49:18
of failure you know which is which to me just creates energy you know. Yeah. It it's um it's not normal and it
00:49:25
can't be healthy though and that's why you end up drinking like Patty or
00:49:29
myself. Uh it's why relationships don't last. This is something's got to pop.
00:49:33
something pops, you know, and you can't it's not it's not a norm. It's not you
00:49:37
don't go home at 4:30, 5:00 in your company car with your company cell phone
00:49:42
and and don't talk to your people again until the next day. I'd have Markings
00:49:45
calling me at 10:00 at night. Great hit, mate. Sorry I haven't got a hold of you
00:49:48
till now. I've just been busy with the lawyers, you know, we're through it.
00:49:51
[ __ ] great hit now. We need another one tomorrow because the momentum is great. You know, it's like it's
00:49:56
relentless. It's unrelenting. You know, I when I had um when when the girls were just born um
00:50:01
you know, the phone had ring and I look at it and Helen Clark, you know, wants to talk about my coverage of the poll
00:50:06
tonight. I'll be like, "Can I ring you back, Helen? One of the kids." And she
00:50:09
was, "Oh, no problem." And ring back you. Well, um don't. And so suddenly
00:50:12
you're in this bloody, oh god, what have I [ __ ] done now? And then that that
00:50:16
might put you in a bad mood. You suddenly you're arguing with your MS, you know, whatever. So it's just but I
00:50:21
wouldn't change a thing in terms of that that time at parliament because I had to become feral and you
00:50:27
had to become was it bully boy? Um I suppose there's a fine line between being being a bully and just holding
00:50:35
them to account. Probably at times we we weren't pretty aggressive around Chris Carter and things like
00:50:40
that, but he was running around the world having a bloody expose on the taxpayer and you know, you know,
00:50:45
parliament's a place of bullies, mate. You know, parliament parliament parliament there's a there's an area
00:50:49
with a tustling. You know, I remember I remember David Samuels. Um David Samuels
00:50:53
looked at Rodney or Richard Pri wants to come over here and I'll smack you. You
00:50:56
know, like this is Lily White nowadays. This this is wussy now. You know, back in those, you know, Maldon, you know, I
00:51:03
showed some pictures, some video to my son of Maldoon the other night when Maldon called the snap election. Now,
00:51:09
84. I was only 10 years old, so I don't really But when he was pissed. Yeah, but he not not only was he pissed.
00:51:13
Have a look at his stance. I showed my son this. I said, "This guy was a tough
00:51:16
little bastard, you know, but Maldon tough and and and intimidating. He's a short little guy." and and and and when
00:51:22
he I didn't realize this, but when he does his um doesn't get my opponent much
00:51:27
time into the election, he's going like this with his shoulders and so he stands
00:51:31
like this and he's like this like with his shoulders, you know, like sort of arcing up like he's ready
00:51:37
for like bring it, you know, and and my son my son noticed it. He goes, "Look at
00:51:41
this is brilliant. Who's this guy?" you know, and because you know, like like a
00:51:44
UFC fighter or something, you know, and and those were the days when, you know, you look at all the people around
00:51:49
Maldun, they look scared of him, even they're his own people. So, um, he wouldn't have been great with social
00:51:54
media, would he? It wouldn't have been a complete f. He would have banned it, actually, cuz
00:51:59
that's what he did. I mean, this is a guy that this is a guy that banned butter being exported from New Zealand.
00:52:03
You know, we we had to get a license to to export butter. This is what young New
00:52:05
Zealanders don't know about. They go to the fridge and they get butter. In the
00:52:08
1980s, you needed an export license to get rid of butter to to sell it. You know, we're only going to sell it to New
00:52:14
Zealanders and we'll become rich selling to ourselves, you know. So, um, a couple of names you've
00:52:18
mentioned, um, like heavyweight political journalists. There's, um, Patty Gawa and Guyion Spinner. Um,
00:52:24
they're both on like a path of sobriety now that's been well documented. What's
00:52:28
um, what's your relationship with booze like? Um, I don't I don't really drink much
00:52:31
anymore. No, but I'm I'm not um I'm not um like those guys that have gone down
00:52:35
that path because um yeah, I just made a decision just to pull back a bit on it because well, I've drunk and
00:52:42
for the first um so we started drinking probably about 14, you know, at school. Uh it was promoted at school. We had
00:52:48
parents who put on kegs after each first game have a ke party. Yeah, we're the same age.
00:52:53
Yeah. Yeah. We afford them a you know 12 and a half liters each. Yep. All that [ __ ] And parents bifle, you
00:52:59
know. So this is a different generation. And I look at the school now and they've
00:53:02
cleaned themselves up. They had to um you know we I lost a mate um pissed um off the back of a a dinghy and the
00:53:10
Mediterranean on on a knowi um she got pissed and fell off the boat and that was the end of him. Got sent back as um
00:53:16
cremated you know. So great guy love fun guy. And so alcohol is alcohol's alcohol um is part of our society. It is
00:53:28
just here and it's one of those accepted drugs, right? All the other bad drugs you can't have,
00:53:33
but you can have this one and it does a lot of damage in the wrong hands and dealt with badly
00:53:39
dealt with properly. It's fine. Whatever it is, but I get I'd drink far too much
00:53:44
as a coping mechanism. Sometimes I would turn up to functions I felt uncomfortable being there without
00:53:48
drinking. I had to drink. I had to have drink or two in my hand, you know. I think a lot of people are like that.
00:53:52
So that's why they call it a social lubricant. Yeah. So that's what I'd be like. And um
00:53:56
but nowadays um if I turn no I'm all right I'm driving. I don't want to get
00:54:00
DIC you know gives company ammo you know. So I'll say no thanks. What's wrong with you mate? And my mom's a
00:54:06
heart. Why don't you have a drink with me? Well I'm about to drive to Northland mom
00:54:10
and if I have one I might have two and then you know I don't want that report
00:54:13
that says he died with alcohol. You know so so I'm just a lot more careful now.
00:54:17
You know I don't it is so easy to get an Uber or get a cab if you're drinking you
00:54:22
know or not drink at all because I'm driving and I've got work in the morning
00:54:25
or whatever. I don't need to drink anymore. It used to be for me an enabler. It used to be part of really
00:54:30
part of who we are, especially the rugby community and everything. But I look at I look at alcohol now and
00:54:34
I largely just took my nose over it. Yeah. I think that people are getting a lot more accepting um for the most part
00:54:40
if you say you're not drinking rather than shame you about it. Although I was
00:54:43
doing MCing a thing in Wellington a couple of weeks ago and uh I was at the table with one of the organizers. So I
00:54:47
was there working. It was their staff awards and uh one of the organizers he said, "Oh, you drinking tonight?" And
00:54:52
I'm like um and he handed me a beer and I'm like, "Sure." He goes, "Good man."
00:54:56
Good man. Yeah. I I got taken to the tennis by Heineken and um uh they only served me light beer. The new the new
00:55:03
zero the hine a few years 0.0. That's great by the way. And I Oh, and I tell you what, I missed
00:55:09
so much of the tennis cuz I was in the toilet all night. I think I ended up doing
00:55:12
lines. What? I ended up having I was in the toilet night having a piss and and and I I had something like 14 of these
00:55:20
zero hinekans all afternoon pissing all afternoon and I missed the most of the tennis. Um and but then drove home.
00:55:27
Yeah. You know, amazing. Now, is that alcohol? Could you give your kid that? I mean, what's the what's
00:55:32
the deal? Well, you know, kids can't buy it at the supermarket, but zero alcohol.
00:55:35
Yeah, I know. I know. It's basically a soft drink. I tell you what, it goes straight
00:55:39
through you, though. Yeah. Um let's get on to your dad. Talk about your dad. So, so he died at the
00:55:44
age of 62. Um, cancer. Yeah, he had um So, so you were how old? Late 30s. Mid-30s.
00:55:50
37 I think. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. How was that? Were you were you guys
00:55:53
close? Oh, yeah. Really close. Dad Dad was um um he was a he was a tough strong guy
00:55:59
growing up, you know. He was always to me big a big strong guy. Um he was he was um he always did the right
00:56:06
thing. My mom, you know, he was a very loyal father. We went to Eden Park our whole
00:56:12
life. season tickets, you know, everything was revolved around rugby. He was a big rugby guy, so I played rugby
00:56:16
with my life and he but he was also um he deeply supportive, you know, he would always he'd always be there and I knew
00:56:21
if my dad was there, I wouldn't play that well or but he'd be at everything,
00:56:25
you know, he was present, you know, and they were they were married right to the end.
00:56:29
Yeah. Oh, yeah. They were still together 44 years married. Um they were just they
00:56:34
were such a tight tight you know and dad was really well liked by all my mates you know they he's and he was one of the
00:56:41
boys but he was also but still their father so he was you know one of the boys but not yeah
00:56:46
you know he'd come down he came down the lions tour in 2005 you know he had some
00:56:50
mates mates with me he has some mates down from Northland for the weekend so the Lions tour 2005 big dad came down
00:56:56
from they were living in to he came down and he stayed with me and you know we we
00:57:01
We we we got really, you know, too much alcohol and great bloody weekend. And he
00:57:06
the Sunday morning he was heading back to mom, you see. So he gets up really early. I saw he's all all dressed and he
00:57:10
stinks of alcohol, all dressed up really, you know, nothing happened this weekend. I'm back back to mom and you
00:57:14
know he got home and mom said he stunk off the plane and everything. He had a great time. I I did a lot of stuff with
00:57:20
dad and um I just wish that he was was able to enjoy a retirement that he was denied by cancer. you know, he' worked
00:57:26
hard, saved hard, and and had, you know, financially was really, you know, set it
00:57:30
set up and he didn't get to enjoy it. You know, he, you know, I'd like to be
00:57:33
out there fishing with him now. And just chatting to him about [ __ ] that's gone
00:57:38
on the last year. He's missed all the he saw all this me on the way up. He never
00:57:41
saw the [ __ ] that happened in the last 10 years, you know. Is that kind of good? I mean, obviously
00:57:45
it's not good having having your mate here, your dad, but he at least he didn't get to because he it would have
00:57:50
been stressful for him to see you going through the stuff you've been through.
00:57:53
Mom's had to take it all. Yeah. Yeah. So mom's had to take take it for both of them. Um he he I I miss him
00:58:00
because he would have given me good advice and as much as I love mom and she it's not bloke's advice, it's mom's
00:58:06
advice and and maybe I'm a bit dismissive sometimes and mom's advice. Maybe
00:58:11
I see exactly I don't know. I suppose as a as a son you want to like protect your
00:58:14
mom whereas your dad you know I tell mom stuff you know I tell mom stuff and it really upsets her and she
00:58:21
gets down about it. You know I don't want to I don't want that. Whereas dad
00:58:24
would be I don't know. I miss him. I miss a man's advice in my life, you
00:58:28
know. I miss dad's advice because I've all the toughest stuff that I've been
00:58:32
through. He hasn't been there to um and he'd hate not been there for it, you
00:58:35
know. I just wish I'd been able to bounce some stuff off him and I might have done something differently, you
00:58:40
know. But have you got anyone like that in your life now? You know, great mates. Yeah. Yeah. Heaps of heaps
00:58:46
of lads. But um they Yeah. They've been very loyal loyal friendships. Yeah. Yeah. Um and um um
00:58:55
I've got a couple of guys who are a bit older than me. Um you know, sort of late
00:58:59
50s, early 60s who have become my father figures, you know. Yeah. Um especially up north.
00:59:05
I've got to know lots of people. I've got I've got to know from this job, I
00:59:08
got to know some really amazing people, some really bad people. Um and no one's no one's all good or all bad
00:59:15
though, are they? Oh [ __ ] No, that's why I said everything's great. But, you know, some
00:59:19
of the some of the some of the worst bastards, you know, have committed terrible things.
00:59:25
Some sometimes they're the first ones to maybe text you and they'll see something.
00:59:29
Are you okay, mate? Um, I can only treat people I can only I can only gauge people by how they treat me
00:59:36
or how they treat my family or my kids. And some of the worst bes we might think, oh, terrible people
00:59:43
have been nothing but supportive and loyal and you know, that's the thing. You got to take people
00:59:47
how you find them. I I always do. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Um Yeah. So, um yeah. Back to your dad. So, um
00:59:55
how long was he ill for? 9 months. So, he got he got diagnosed. I was at work at TV3. At that night, for
01:00:02
some reason, whatever happened, I was it was 5:00 and I didn't have to do a story
01:00:07
that it was maybe something was going on. Anyway, um I got a call from mom. Can you come up your father and I at
01:00:13
home? We need to see you. and my heart just dropped because it's an unusual call.
01:00:18
Yeah. And um I had um I think I'd ridden my bike to work that day. I used to come
01:00:24
around because it's flat on Wellington from where we were. So I used to I went
01:00:28
home on my bike to get my car and as I was coming around Oriental Bay I just felt this overwhelming cuz I didn't know
01:00:35
what was going on but I knew something I knew. And is this when they they told me to come they told me to
01:00:41
come and see them? No. No. They told me to come and see them. They don't need to
01:00:43
see me tonight. It's serious now. I've always feared cancer. Dad was sick when
01:00:49
he was late 30s, 40 and I thought and he was in a ward with people with cancer. He got he had gh bladder stones or
01:00:54
gallstones or something like that. He looked like he was dying when I was a young young kid. So I never forgotten
01:00:58
what those guys with cancer looked like, you know, and I just thought it's cancer, you
01:01:02
know. I just I knew and so I rode my bike home and I got to oral bane. I was crying. My eyes were welling up and I
01:01:07
couldn't see the road. And I went I drove I rode my boat and all the way home back to Murma. I don't remember I
01:01:13
don't remember the ride. I don't remember the seeing the road because of
01:01:16
my eyes, you know. It's like with a wind screen that's got water on it, you know.
01:01:19
Really like sobbing. Yeah. Just just just Yeah. just thinking about him, you know,
01:01:25
like and then I got in the car and I I drove um up to the place in Kandala and I open the door, shut the door and I
01:01:33
open the door of the house and dad's at the top of the stairs and I start to walk up there and he's
01:01:40
shaking and he hugs me and all I remember him saying was, "I'm [ __ ] I'm [ __ ] mate." And I just was
01:01:48
hugging him and I sat down on the couch and he goes, "This is the deal." And he
01:01:52
told me that, you know, he'd been having physio for a bad back and I remember
01:01:54
that. But he what he happened he had kidney cancer and the the cancer he got out of his kidney in the six month
01:02:01
period where they had misdiagnosed him and they're rubbing his back and had gone through his spine, lungs and was
01:02:06
heading towards the brain. I think over 9 months. So sort of straight to palative care
01:02:11
pretty much. He was working he was um he he he'd retired. He was 62. He had retired from from finance and
01:02:17
everything, but he had gone back to work to run um a charity, I think St. John's
01:02:22
Church in the city or something, you know, pathetic pay for a guy with all those skills to do, you know, to run the
01:02:27
place. And so he quit that on that day and um he said, "I'll try and fight
01:02:31
this, but I think I'm fucked." So we got some pills, some expensive farm type
01:02:34
things that didn't work. So we were just waiting for him to die. It's really
01:02:37
taxing on families that you my mom was just a trooper, you know. We were watching dad die, you know, and
01:02:43
I look back now and I think, did I do enough? I was I was there every day and right the way through a nurse who the
01:02:50
nurse who was there when he died and helped me walk the him to the hearse emailed me when today if he went under
01:02:58
to say I was a listener you don't know me I've met you briefly I was on the bed
01:03:03
that day that we pushed your dad to the hearse and I read that that was the day I was
01:03:08
writing that the article I read that and and I've since been in touch with that
01:03:12
lady and that's powerful [ __ ] you when someone does that. And so he he did nine months. He fought
01:03:19
it really. He fought it and he he was still this big strong guy right to the end there. And on the Sunday I I a few
01:03:26
weeks before he died, I had to go to Afghanistan with John Ke. I've been sitting on this secret because only we
01:03:31
only myself and Guy knew that he was going to Afghanistan. So we knew a month earlier and because we were going to
01:03:37
part of the security detail, we had to shut up. The trip didn't exist until we
01:03:41
got back. So here I am with dad. I need to go to Afghanistan. Are you What do you reckon, Dad? And he's a month away
01:03:48
from his death. But it could have been any time. Yeah. And he thought I was going to die
01:03:55
going to a war zone. And and there's I tell you what, the the way things panned out, it could have
01:04:00
happened, you know, coming down snipers alley in a bloody paj with a glass a little bit thicker than, you know.
01:04:04
Anyway, um I said I said, "I'm going to go, but if you tell me not to, I won't go."
01:04:10
He goes, "You go." You know, I remember saying goodbye to him at the time.
01:04:14
Heaviest thing. And we took Gett did all that and came back and um cuz I couldn't
01:04:21
ring them cuz we're not we weren't we weren't allowed to. So I didn't know if
01:04:25
he died. How long was the trip? Six was six or seven days. It was meant to be. But it got delayed cuz Ke never
01:04:32
made it to Dubai in time. So we're in this limbo just drinking in this pub after 6:00 cuz you can drink after 600,
01:04:38
you know. So just sitting there waiting for Ke to turn up. going to start to do all of that and that gave me a real good
01:04:43
context you know for um for being you know like the guys from the resilience project be grateful for what you've got
01:04:50
you know so it gave me a new perspective go to Afghanistan and seeing what people
01:04:54
didn't have the subsistence lives that they lead and all this [ __ ] oh man people's the average living age
01:05:00
is 44 you know so um I got back and dad was alive and 3 weeks later he was dead Sunday when I watched the Chiefs Chiefs
01:05:07
Huracans with him on a Saturday night in his room Sunday, didn't go over there. I
01:05:12
was just texted. And that Sunday night, dad checked himself into a St. John's
01:05:16
ambulance, rang them up, and they talked to the hospice and by Monday night, he was in a coma and died on the Thursday
01:05:21
morning, which is a budget day 13 years ago. Yeah. Can you remember your last um
01:05:24
conversation with him? Um yeah, he was agitated. He was he was wanting to get out of the
01:05:29
bed. And I remember the last thing he said to me was my mom. Because his mom died young, he started to see his mom.
01:05:35
So the doctors said to us four days before he died, he's going to die this week because they can see the vitals all
01:05:40
change. So, you know, I'm pleased and proud that um what mom and I did that time. You
01:05:46
know, I've got two sisters. I got a twin sister and I got an older sister and um
01:05:51
they were there at the end too. You know, they were they were great at the end. But um mom mom did it on herself.
01:05:57
You know, I was there as much as I could and I don't I look back now I'm pleased
01:06:00
that I spent a shitload of time with them. Well, I always did anyway, you know. Um, but it hasn't been the same
01:06:05
since. You know, I could ring up and discuss all sorts of things with him. You know, what's the what are the
01:06:10
markets doing? What do you think of the All Black team? What about all this [ __ ] You know, or this or that or
01:06:15
what do you make of this or that and you he sp was a spade. He'd tell me stuff.
01:06:19
But he wasn't he was very loyal. He wasn't um he never he never criticized
01:06:24
people. Yeah. You know, he wasn't he was if he judged that, he kept it within himself. Very
01:06:28
fair guy. um would spot an [ __ ] a mile away, you know, and good [ __ ] detector.
01:06:34
Yeah. Oh, yeah. All that [ __ ] And he and did a fools, you know, you know, he went to boarding school. He's got a good
01:06:39
good group of mates, you know. He knows things. So, yeah. So, so yeah, I miss I missed dad, but I know um you know, and
01:06:45
time does heal. Time does time does you reckon? Well, no, no, it doesn't, but it gives you a coping mechanism.
01:06:51
I've got a context. I got, you know, um got all these basket cases on my wall. a head case, a basket
01:06:59
case, you know, the hard case. And so, you know, there's all these things and,
01:07:03
you know, dad's dad's top for me. But, um, I've learned to cope. You know, I've learned to
01:07:09
That's the thing. The time doesn't necessarily heal the wounds, but you just you you adapt to this new normal.
01:07:15
You have to, but it leaves a [ __ ] hole. Leaves a massive hole, but you have to
01:07:18
walk through it. And you because the other option is not carrying on. You have to walk through
01:07:23
it. You have to carry on. You got I got my own kids. M um so I I look back with pride with my
01:07:28
relationship with him now and I wish you know he will never know what what I what
01:07:32
I did. Um he'll know what I was heading to but he won't know how how it ended.
01:07:38
Um I'm not a big I'm not a religious guy and I'm not a big after after life sort
01:07:42
of guy. Um but I had this dream once that he was a he was a he came back as a as a what do you call them? Um
01:07:48
an angel. No no definitely not an angel. He got caned far too much at St. Ken College
01:07:54
for that. He came back as a fan tale. I think it was it was a paka or something.
01:07:58
Yeah. Yeah. Isn't there something about that spiritual? I'm sure there is.
01:08:03
And every time I'd be at the back of my house, especially late at night, don't
01:08:07
ask what it's doing late at night outside the back of my house, but there would be that when I left the house that
01:08:12
last day before I sold it, I was out there just putting something back and in the tree was this pew walker, this
01:08:18
little fans out at night. They I don't know if they ever seen at night and it
01:08:22
flew around me and then flew off. I thought I don't think I'm loopy, but to me that
01:08:29
was just a sign off, you know. I'm sure it's it's a moldy legend or something, isn't it?
01:08:32
Yeah. I don't wasn't strong on the multi legend stuff, so I don't know.
01:08:37
He was a Duncan. It's me. O, he was in a different era. Yeah. Do Do you think he'd be proud of
01:08:44
you though of the man you are and the man you've become? Yeah, because I look I look at my son
01:08:49
and if if my son um because some things out of your control as well, you know, you know, marriage breakups happen, you
01:08:55
know, 50%, you know, 50% fail. Um [ __ ] happens, you know. Um it's how you deal
01:09:00
with and how you recover and how you move on is is was always dad's philosophy. So I think he'd be hopefully
01:09:05
hopefully he'd be proud of me. Um and um content to the knowledge that I'm I'm
01:09:11
okay, you know, I'm still alive. I haven't done anything. I I you know I
01:09:15
haven't I haven't been so bad that I'm I'm in jail or I haven't you know I
01:09:20
haven't you know yeah I've done lots of things wrong but we all do things wrong
01:09:25
because we're human beings. So I'm still here and I I'm still working and I've had a really privileged
01:09:30
life and really privileged career. Um and I've been to 90 countries. I've met
01:09:35
promises and presidents and I've covered all that stuff. Had every job under the
01:09:38
sun and I'm grateful and thankful for people who have given me those jobs. I've hopefully I've I've done the right
01:09:43
thing by them and worked hard and achieved things. You know, we all we've all won awards and things over the years
01:09:48
and that's that they're nice to win, but um it's the people that you've that
01:09:52
you've worked with and the the people that you've done the stories on and your
01:09:55
family and all that that matter, you know, like for me, all that matters for me is my kids, you know. Um and they're
01:10:01
navigating a [ __ ] strange world, you know? They're navigating a tough world.
01:10:04
Really tough world, you know. My son doesn't watch TV or listen to the radio
01:10:08
because it's all done on this, you know. It's all done on the phone. Yeah. [ __ ] YouTube and
01:10:11
whatnot, mate. He's a Tik Tok. He's a Tik Tok man, you know. He's He's Mr. Tik Tok,
01:10:14
you know. He goes, we walk down the street. Yo, baby. Oh, he sees someone on TikTok, you know. [ __ ] this dude, bro?
01:10:21
You know. Oh, yes. It's it's its own sort of culture and environment. Oh, yeah. But it's dangerous as hell
01:10:25
because, you know, I don't want them to think that life is life and relationships is through a lens of Tik
01:10:30
Tok, you know, like just he's smart enough to park it, you know, but life's about, you know, going
01:10:34
and playing footy or going fishing or doing ballet or whatever, you know, having other outside events that don't
01:10:40
be controlled by a device, you know. Also, just before you mentioned um, you know, the uh resilience project and how
01:10:46
the there there's basically a lot of people in the world that are happier with a lot less. Um, so if you look on
01:10:51
Instagram, it's like um you're comparing up because everyone's living their best
01:10:54
life. Um, but you're a lot happier if you just compare down and be grateful for the things that you do have rather
01:10:59
than the things that you don't. It's so important, you know, and I I don't compare cuz I can't be [ __ ] you
01:11:03
know. Um um um but you know, I used to think maybe material things were important, but not overly. So, you know,
01:11:12
all I want in life is um uh my kids to have the fullest, longest, happiest lives, you know, and get into healthy
01:11:19
relationships. Like, healthy relationships and content relationships is really important for me now, you
01:11:24
know, after failing on that front. So, that's important because that's about
01:11:27
the health of your child, you know, that's about the their happiness. So, that's really important and money can't
01:11:32
buy that. um judgment and being a good person can um I'll be happy to be um in
01:11:37
the hook you in and you know fishing every day with a small small little house that you know that's that's warm
01:11:44
and doesn't leak and um a four-wheel drive out the front with a boat that um
01:11:49
that works and floats and doesn't kill me for the rest of my life. Idelic and and without without any trouble
01:11:56
without any any you know and and if there are gang members down the road which there are in Northland um how you
01:12:02
go mate you know I don't get in your way you don't get in mine I'm not judging
01:12:06
you cuz you're in a gang you would have you would had a [ __ ] life of growing up
01:12:10
I know gangsters who've been sexually abused from the ages of four through to
01:12:13
16 and their fathers went to jail and they came out of jail they still abused them
01:12:18
they their lives were set in stone ro from I'm not going to judge them We're
01:12:22
too quick to report. Yeah. Yeah. You I mean you don't you don't know what baggage anyone's
01:12:26
carrying, do you? That's the thing. Um just sorry just going back to your dad
01:12:30
stuff like did you have any counseling or anything after that? Have you ever seen a therapist?
01:12:34
Yeah, I have seen a counselor. Yeah, I saw a guy um [ __ ] funny. The guy in um marriage
01:12:40
counseling, right? Cuz our marriage was on the rocks and I wanted to try and save it.
01:12:43
Right. And so she told me I need to go to counseling. I need to go to counseling. I tried it
01:12:49
off to counseling at 200 bucks a session. And the dude says to me, "Where's your wife?" And I said, "She
01:12:54
doesn't need to come." He goes, "What?" I said, "She doesn't
01:13:00
need to come." But I I'm the guy with all the issues. He goes, "He heard this
01:13:06
before." He goes, "Well, I'll give you a few sessions and we'll get her in." I
01:13:09
said, "How's that going to go?" "Well, I'll tell you how it goes." He said,
01:13:11
"And she'll be she'll do this, this, this, and this, and then she won't come
01:13:15
back." And She accused him of ripping it off or something, you know. Um, I really found
01:13:22
him great. He compartmentalized these things. He took all my compartments off the shelf and broke them down. He drew
01:13:27
with these graphics and he was bloody great. And I still drive past his house and think he was he it's like when you I
01:13:35
I did some boxing in one. I trained for boxing and once you train for boxing, you learn this your strength. You learn
01:13:40
what a what a punch can do and so you respect that. And he gave me the tools and power of contentment and being
01:13:47
comfortable that I had some help. M and everything he said would happen happened and I was if I hadn't had him I
01:13:55
would have thought that was strange that you know but he made it okay. Yeah. You
01:13:58
know so he was he was really really really really helpful. Yeah. I think it's hard for guys our age
01:14:03
to sort of open up but it's a good thing to do mate. This wouldn't have happened years
01:14:07
ago. Like I had a mate of mine. He was really good rugby player. Played super rugby. Played New Zealand Maldi and big,
01:14:12
strong, strapping, handsome um man, kids, wife, everything. All from the outside all good. He was suffering
01:14:19
depression. The black dog. And I've had mates who have who have who've been
01:14:23
pulled out of a car with tried to cast themselves. You know, we got to them in time. This
01:14:29
guy came across one night to our house. I wonder why he just showed up like that. He said, "Just talk to me, Duncy."
01:14:35
And he just want to talk all night. And he goes, "What I'm saying is I'm
01:14:39
depressed." And I said, "What do you mean? What's wrong there, mate? You got
01:14:42
everything." And he goes, "I'm depressed." Now, was it because he used
01:14:47
to be well doing well in rugby and he no longer was? It was all these all these all these issues.
01:14:52
And so all night I sat there with him and by the end of the night, we'd finished talking. He was all this weight
01:14:57
was off his shoulders and he started getting the rotten fruit from my bowl and throwing it at me on the way out. So
01:15:01
he was he he but he needs that constant constant chat time and that's taxing
01:15:06
time. Um it is it's good to speak to your mates but your mates aren't necessarily
01:15:11
trained or know the right thing to say or do but they just sometimes have to be there
01:15:15
to listen. Yeah. Like to to so if you know so we're talking today finding this quartic
01:15:20
actually you know quite you know it's like a counseling session. Hope I hope
01:15:23
it's not hope it's not beaten enough. No it's been great. This is real. this I
01:15:28
mean I've said stuff today that um that journalists in the newspapers have been trying to get out of me for for
01:15:34
decades but for some reason I don't trust them but I do trust you you know I appreciate that
01:15:39
it's disarming you know it's um and we've we got to know each other you know
01:15:42
briefly over the years turned up and tried to be ridiculous on on the edge with you and over the years you know
01:15:48
during the politics when you guys show interest once every three years and stuff
01:15:53
and I I don't blame you um but so and I really respect what you what you've
01:15:57
achieved and what you did up there and I think you you know with your with your you know
01:16:01
your powerhouse and and and you're running and stuff you know like you should be proud of yourself
01:16:05
you know and maybe we don't tell people that enough you know I tell my son he tells me I tell him
01:16:10
every day I love him and we kiss each other and I never did that with my dad yeah that's really cool
01:16:15
on the phone he's like to his mom love you mom and even if we might have had an
01:16:19
argument okay well no you get no no bust okay love you dad he's always always he's a deeply um fun
01:16:26
orientated boy you know That's cool. Well, we haven't even talked about the
01:16:30
um the AM show stuff. I I always thought there were there must be some smoking gun there because you So, you finished
01:16:35
up on the AM show and you just you just disappeared. There was no farewell or anything. And when when that happens in
01:16:41
media, there's usually some sort of um God has done something wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there wasn't
01:16:46
right. There was no I I'd um So, this was um uh August 23, 2021. They were so they wanted to change
01:16:53
things up, right? Uh, and I didn't there were new owners. They probably walked in and saw
01:16:59
what I was paid and they put a red ring around it and said, "We're going to be
01:17:03
scaling back." I was, "What's this guy doing this for?" You know, that's
01:17:05
probably the truth. That's probably the truth realistically. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, so I knew they
01:17:09
would make some changes and I disagreed with it cuz it was rating well and it was it had we done five five long hard
01:17:16
years of establishing ourselves and it was you and Mark Richardson and Ame. Yeah. Five years is a long time for um
01:17:21
breakfast TV radio show because it was both you know hard to do and um so Paul had done two years so we done five after
01:17:28
that and I loved working with you know Mandra Mark it was fun had some fun times um but I disagreed with it and the
01:17:35
relationship sailed from there from there and then I went on then I went on um I went on leave for two weeks school
01:17:41
holidays to my mother sends me to her brother's to my uncle's he had a he had
01:17:46
a motel you know in in in Topo and And he sends me there and it's full of the
01:17:51
old emergency housing people. This mom thought I needed a break. So she sends me to this next to me. There was a
01:17:56
prostitute hooker. There was the pimp. There was a drug dealer. There was a guy on really serious assault charges. And
01:18:01
then there's another family down there that couldn't get accommodation otherwise. And another hooker. And I
01:18:04
said this come to Jesus moment. This is great. This is there were parties every night. And my uncle was just pulling in
01:18:12
huge coin from working income. He just kept paying these bills. No wonder he sold it. Went to the next place. But
01:18:17
what's going to happen to these people? and M's like, "Who are these people? Why
01:18:20
are these people going to their house every night?" Well, this is what it is,
01:18:24
mate. M will tell you now. So, you know, oh my god, thanks for the holiday, Mom. And my
01:18:28
uncle charged me 500 bucks for the for the for the compliment, you know. Um but I came back from there and I came back
01:18:33
from the holiday and um that was sour from there. I didn't go back on. I think I might have gone on
01:18:41
for two days and then um then we basically we went into a meeting and they said, "We're going to change." I
01:18:47
said, "I don't agree with it." and I took a line of the sand on it because I
01:18:50
didn't want to I didn't want to I didn't want to do what they wanted to do.
01:18:53
So, not good on you leaving on your own terms, but um and it was feels feels um I don't know.
01:18:59
It feels mean that you didn't get to say farewell to the built. I wanted to and because we were
01:19:04
disagreeing on the on the future. I don't think they trusted me to get back on air. You know what to to to say a
01:19:10
positive goodbye. Now, I'm professional. I could have we fast forward two years. What the way
01:19:14
you exited today FM that maybe they had their reason to be It's all there. That's the And the great thing about the
01:19:20
I tell you what I tell you what with Media Works and you know these guys. Um and it's a fun it's fun place to work
01:19:25
and that sort of thing. Um it's always a challenge a brand you know especially in
01:19:28
TV was um but um they I I was we lost our jobs in the heat of the moment right so I'm
01:19:36
not going to say well I'll be back to you shortly with a prepared statement you know
01:19:40
mate this is [ __ ] this I thought this was betrayal because we've been told all
01:19:43
these things. So to me in those moments that was now I said to the bosses afterwards um because they came to me
01:19:49
and said you know we want to talk to you. Um so they clearly thought that I had something more to give. I thought I
01:19:54
did and but I said all those things and I wrote that column and I said you guys need to be adult enough to deal with
01:20:01
that and I'm adult enough to deal with the fact that you've just sacked this
01:20:04
life. And we both shook on it and said sweet go and I think this really adult this
01:20:09
really adult thing. This is not personal. Yeah, this is professionals business and I'll
01:20:13
prove to you guys that you know um I'm still sweet carrying on. You have got to
01:20:17
prove to me that you still want to support it. Well, they have and um yeah, it's a really mature working
01:20:24
relationship, isn't it? When you can do that. I mean, I the things I said about
01:20:27
them, don't send your bloody Australian henchman over here and [ __ ] do us over, you know? And I said all these
01:20:32
things. Um walking back in the door, walking back like [ __ ] I'm back, you know. And I tell you what, people and
01:20:39
I've I've had moment I've you know sat down with the chief executive and and
01:20:42
you know and the two IC 3 and I've said you know I stand by those things. Um
01:20:47
it's not personal and they've said the same thing to me and we've had a really
01:20:50
a really good really good robust chat about it. Honest debate should they there's no
01:20:56
handbook for closing down a radio station. There's no oh this this is the way things well
01:21:02
you know it was done badly and um um and the company has paid a price for that you know it's been in tatters you know
01:21:11
over it but but um it doesn't mean that they can't do it right. Yeah you know
01:21:16
and and how um how's uh how have the other today FM staff been with you like
01:21:20
do they think you're a traitor for going back? Um, not that they've told me and
01:21:24
and and and I've and I've seen some of them, right? So, I was I one night I had
01:21:28
a decision to do. Do I podcast? What is this podcasting thing again? Or do I take the legal action? Now, I'm I have
01:21:35
I've had remember my life. I got lawyers running around the family court and
01:21:37
everything. So, I was over lawyers, you know, I really started to not to dislike
01:21:41
lawyers. So, that night I had to make a decision. Go with my gut. Now, I'm a
01:21:45
worker. My gut said carry on. you have good enough relationships with all those guys despite what you've already said
01:21:52
because they need to face the fact of how they they how it was presented to us too, you know. So, they've got some [ __ ]
01:21:57
to deal with. Oh, yeah. They they treated you guys badly. So, so you know, I mean I mean and they
01:22:01
ended up saying to me, "Oh, no, you were really um professional on your way out.
01:22:03
Thanks." So, if that's professional then then sweet. So, we can Oh, can we deal
01:22:08
with that? They know that um if I'm on your side, I'm on your side. You know, I'll go into the trenches for
01:22:14
you. Um, and I appreciate the opportunity. It's good to launch a podcast with support around you. Yeah.
01:22:20
Yeah. Because I didn't know what I was doing. I still don't. But um Oh, I'll tell you, as someone that has
01:22:25
um done it on his on it on on his own, it's um it's it's it's scary and it's
01:22:31
lonely and it's um and it's hard and there's there's I've got some help and
01:22:35
support now, but uh there's no one to celebrate the wins with. You have a good
01:22:38
win and Friday night drinks already, don't you? Yeah. Maybe it's Friday afternoon, but you
01:22:43
know what I Although I'm not big on office camaraderie. I think it's all
01:22:46
[ __ ] really, you know, but but but um your wins are, you know, you will know when your wins, you know, you look at
01:22:52
your numbers or whatever and you cannot hide in a podcast. The numbers do not lie because the
01:22:57
numbers they will tell you who's who's um listening, where they are, when
01:23:01
they're there, how many times they've been there, um what country they're in,
01:23:05
and like the metrics and the the dashboard and the data is [ __ ] brilliant. Yeah, I love it.
01:23:09
It is. It is honest. I love it. You know, I've had to stop getting obsessed with the numbers.
01:23:14
Oh, I know. You got to stop that. Yeah. And I used to be like that on social media, but I came off social media
01:23:17
because I thought I turning actually mentally ill by fighting people on social media. You know, if you if you
01:23:22
say controversial stuff and you are at the forefront of political journalism, you think, people are going to smash you
01:23:26
all the time. I got sick of being smashed, you know, and wanted to sm responding to one day. I knew that was
01:23:31
the end of me. I had to stop. Yeah. Well, you don't need it. Who are these people?
01:23:34
Nobody [ __ ] that live in their own little bar. So, so, so, so I don't I don't engage. got good people
01:23:40
at Media Works doing all that social media stuff, you know, and I'll jump on
01:23:43
every now and then, send some messages. Um uh but I couldn't have I couldn't I'm
01:23:48
I'm not entrepreneurial, you know. Um I'm I'm not um I don't know I I know how
01:23:53
to do my business, my job, but do I know how to run the place and set it up from
01:23:57
scratch? Like you you broken new ground. You've got a neon sign with your name on it and it's
01:24:04
and it's I mean what sort of what sort of build do you get for that? you know,
01:24:07
like it's at least 1,500 bucks plus power, you know, and it's cool. No, company did it for free, which is
01:24:12
very nice. Um, but your your podcast is going great. Sh, we've um we we've
01:24:16
talked for so long. How long we talk for? Uh, almost an hour and a half now. Do you know I feel like I've only talked
01:24:20
about half my life. Yeah. I we might have to get you back for a part two. Do you see how part one goes first? If
01:24:25
the numbers are no good, then Yeah. s sitting um on it. That's something I've stopped obsessing about
01:24:30
the numbers so much cuz you have a I have a good chat with someone and it may not get the same numbers as
01:24:34
but you've got [ __ ] out of me that that that people that people Thank you that
01:24:38
people I trust you. Yeah. Um um I don't know. I mean is it because I I see a like-minded 50-year-old
01:24:45
opposite me or a guy that will understand, you know, if I say I've fell into the gutter on this issue, I look at
01:24:51
you and you sort of nod at me like you I joined you in the gutter, you know. So, so
01:24:56
what gutter were you in? Well, you on the K road chicken to the left there. So, so, but yeah, I've
01:25:01
lived. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you have. I think that's good. Um, is it just this is the longest chat
01:25:06
we've ever had, you and I sitting down together. I I wonder have you I mean,
01:25:09
you're the same similar age to me. So, when you're growing up in the 70s and
01:25:12
the 80s, [ __ ] just wasn't diagnosed the way it is now. But, do you think you're
01:25:16
ADHD or or on the on the spectrum somewhere? Do you think I am? Well, I Well, I think I am. I wonder if
01:25:24
you are. Um, I hope so. I I mean I hope I'm I mean I I speak fast. I'm I'm The guys in
01:25:33
the press gallery used to call me Ritalin boy. Yeah. You like that? So, um um I think I
01:25:42
we broke a fax machine over that cuz we put a scrum down and whoever won, you know, won the rights not to call me
01:25:46
that. But um um I I don't I think um well, did we diagnose me as narcissistic
01:25:53
earlier on in the interview? Yeah. No, your ex-wife diagnosed you as narcissistic.
01:25:57
Well, she put a herald cutting in front of me. We we both agreed that um there's
01:26:01
elements of narcissism and a lot of people. Oh, me especially. Yeah. But woman women
01:26:06
are women can be bad too. Like you know, woman can be really bad. But um what what is ADHD? Attention deficit
01:26:12
disorder. Yeah. Hyperactiv hyperactivity disorder. My twin sister was probably more
01:26:16
hyperactive than me. Um but I think I am I'm an active relaxer. M so to relax I might grab my fishing rod
01:26:23
at 10:00 at night and go down to the harbor bridge and fish down there and I find that really um rewarding and I find
01:26:30
it really relaxing uh to be doing stuff you know I um I don't I don't I sleep but I sleep across
01:26:37
my bed rather than up and I don't I don't hop in the sheets I don't hop in
01:26:40
because I'm I very warm person so I just see I see my You're running a hot temperature.
01:26:45
Yeah. Well, my mom said to me the other night, she came in and I I zonked and I crashed out of my clothes with her head
01:26:50
down and she I was across the bed. I said, "I'm always like that. What's
01:26:53
unusual about that?" I just I walk in and I crash across the bed, you know.
01:26:56
But when you've been single for a few years, you can do that, you know? Yeah.
01:26:59
Um Yeah. I wonder if you are. I like I mean there's test. What does it mean though?
01:27:06
What does it mean? Well, that's the thing. There's tests you can do to find out, but I'm I'm not
01:27:10
sure how to change me. Well Well, I don't want to be changed now. Like if it means I slow down and
01:27:16
become, you know, sort of more of a ponderous, I don't want to be like that.
01:27:20
Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're only here once. Make your mark and go. How's um how's how's your health? Are
01:27:25
you are you worried about dying? Like you you know, your dad died painfully young.
01:27:29
I I've always felt like I'm an ox, you know, like except except except the other night I'm
01:27:35
I'm um um I was um I we're doing some tackling. Remember my son? And he's he's just got
01:27:44
um he's he's a big boy, but he's just got taller and bit leaner and he's doing
01:27:47
weights now, you know, and just gentle just growing into himself. Yeah. Yeah. And um so I notic, you know,
01:27:53
on the field he's he's a good tough player, but whenever he takes me on, he
01:27:56
toughens up even more like I'm not going to take out the old man. I'm like,
01:28:00
"Okay, well, you what you know about me, P, you know, you know, in my day, I
01:28:04
could I could do this, too." And but I'm 50. And the other night he he we got
01:28:08
this little little we went down to the punch raing grounds and in between the post you run at me and if you can get
01:28:14
past me and score another post then you know you win and vice versa. So you know
01:28:17
I'm running at him he runs at me and he goes can you tackle or not dad you know
01:28:20
cuz I go quite light on him I take his head off anyway he challenged me to tackle him. So I went I wanted to show
01:28:26
him how to do you know he knows how to tackle properly but so I went low. So I went in there and go, he was like rock
01:28:32
hard solid buddy thighs and you know when I hit him and then my neck just went I heard this I heard this I heard
01:28:38
this compress compressing it and went like this and I said, "Oh shit." And he
01:28:44
goes and he's very caring. He goes, "Oh, what what did I do?" And I said, "Well,
01:28:47
don't fall on me for a start." Which he did. And I just I just said, "Oh." And
01:28:50
then I realiz [ __ ] And the last couple of days I've been rubbing um you know um
01:28:56
like deep heat all that [ __ ] I' got about three or four different and I've even got the
01:28:59
spray one that you know puts it out of misery. So I'm just a bit stiff in the
01:29:02
neck. But I've realized you know some something happened in the 40s. Men in their 40s to watch it.
01:29:09
Lots of stuff happened to me in my 40s. Um I I used to be able to run and then suddenly I got then suddenly I struggled
01:29:16
to um you know your legs become tight and sore and um cuz I played rugby for quite quite some time and and you know
01:29:23
enjoyed the confrontation of it all. Yeah. Now everything hurts you know I've got
01:29:27
um I don't know what Richard Mc he seems like he's in great Nick though.
01:29:32
I know but he's well he's just kept busy. He's kept running and you got to
01:29:36
keep moving. So um I've I've cycled. I've I've run a half marathon. Um uh I
01:29:42
do a lot of fishing and so I do I always try hunting physical, you know. Um but I could be healthier. Yeah.
01:29:48
Yeah. Um how how close um do you think you are now to being the person that you want to be?
01:29:53
Do you feel like you're there? No, I'm not there yet. No, no, no. I'm
01:29:56
not there. Got plenty to do yet. Um I think that's good though. If anyone says if you ask someone that question,
01:30:02
they go, I'm there now. You're wanking. It's like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't
01:30:05
think I'll ever get there. I think I think you've got to be constantly changing, right? You only
01:30:08
ever get there in your own mind. Yeah. But you never get there properly. Um what do you what do you think your big
01:30:13
work on? Do you know um uh getting a house and settling down settling down again, you know, setting
01:30:20
down I want to you know I I need to I need to I want to you know you need a place to call your pet but my that my
01:30:27
calling is up north. Um a lot of my friends hard though with the the career you do
01:30:33
because everything is Oakuckland based right? But it doesn't have to be anymore. like
01:30:36
what what we're doing here in central you are you're as central Oakland as you
01:30:40
can be right. What's stopping you doing this in um Ekatahuna? Yeah, it's true actually. Yeah. Yeah.
01:30:44
Sorry, I I take that back. Paul Holmes, didn't he did the last couple of years
01:30:47
of his ZB show from his house in Hawks Bay? Yeah. And a lot of lot of lot of guys do
01:30:51
that. Um but um the bosses just like you. They're going to see, you know, tell you how much of a pay cut you're
01:30:58
about to take, you know, but um um also you have to life is um is a marathon. You know, not a sprint.
01:31:04
There's no sprint. If you sprint, you die. So, it's a marathon. And um I mean,
01:31:10
look at Tony Beach sprint, you know. So, so it's there's there's a lot more to
01:31:15
give, you know. Yeah. And what I would love to do is my I I I I in a very non um sort of Jimmy Seville,
01:31:25
Ralph Harris way. I love kids and I love I love seeing kids develop, you know, and so I've had a lot to do with buses
01:31:31
friends over the years who've sort of come into the house and been there all
01:31:34
weekend, every weekend, you know, they're from big families, rugby league guys. So, you know, I've provided and
01:31:39
helped them, help parent them, you know, they a lot of the families call me the white dad, you know, because I take the
01:31:44
kids on and and I get enormous joy in um in a lot of kids that, you know, haven't
01:31:49
got the means to or the resources, the family taking them on doing it. And I would love to one day be able to um have
01:31:55
this huge pot of money which um I oversaw which I allocated to um talent that I could I could identify in the
01:32:03
community and and put them on the path to success. That would be my that would be my dream job.
01:32:08
Like a mentor or a big buddy sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. just like a like a a head of
01:32:12
a trust that um that um would identify kids and um bring them through, you know, cuz a
01:32:20
couple of my mates have played really top level sport and and I've learned a
01:32:24
lot them about um sporting success and what's necessary and you know the psych
01:32:30
psychology of it all and everything and and and I played enough sport to also to put it
01:32:36
all into context. There's some amazing talent out there that is just not harnessed.
01:32:39
Yeah. There's a lot of kids that make it in the first 10 years who are never
01:32:42
going to carry on because they're going to bomb out the physically and mentally
01:32:45
they don't have it. They made all the rep teams at 10 and 11 with the dad was
01:32:49
a coach or something. But these other kids that that sit in the all these pockets around New Zealand
01:32:54
which their talent goes to waste, you know, I'd love to be able to just be a
01:32:58
small part of a solution around something like that. It'll probably never happen, but um it would be
01:33:03
exciting. Yeah. Yeah, it would be. It would be. And if you're thinking about it, I don't
01:33:07
know. I sort of think manifesting does sort of work in a way if you think visual visualize. I used to visualize
01:33:11
when I played rugby. I used to visualize what what we could do that day and sometimes it happened. It worked. I know
01:33:16
I know especially of one child one kid uses a mate and his age now. Yeah. Most kids don't make it.
01:33:22
Okay. But it's top sport you know um you go to school out of all these people
01:33:27
here none of you will be all blacks. You know you need to understand this. They all want to be. So you don't tell them
01:33:31
the truth. But I know one kid who who is an astonishing um rugby slugby league player. Not big, but he's just
01:33:39
enormously strong, enormously fast, enormously gifted, and enormously tough mentally and physically.
01:33:45
I'd love to be able to help him. He's got 10 brothers and sisters. Yeah.
01:33:49
Um and I I've had a lot to do with him, you know, and this kid, I'd love to be
01:33:53
able to, you know, get a pot of money say put him into a school which promotes, you know, his excellence.
01:33:59
I wonder if we don't promote excellence. What worries me is that you know in all
01:34:02
the schools these days everyone's we're not we're embarrassed to promote
01:34:05
excellence because it then highlights ordinary and so everyone's ordinary. No
01:34:10
no no no there is some people are born differently they have different skills and different levels of ability
01:34:17
get them highlight them embrace them push them. Not everyone can be that and not can be
01:34:24
this. You know these people here will still be success stories. Yeah. Remarkable ones. But if we can identify
01:34:30
this, they may not make it, but at least give it every shot that they go to. 100%. And do you think um would would
01:34:36
you marry again? No. Isn't there part of you like that that I mean you Okay, Winston.
01:34:44
Okay. No, but um I'm thinking like the the way that you were raised and your your you
01:34:50
know your the wonderful relationship that your parents had. Like is is there not part of you that like like yearns
01:34:55
for that or wants that knows what's possible? No, cuz I'm too cynical and too
01:34:58
skeptical now. You've just been burnt. Well, it's just that it doesn't mean
01:35:01
anything. You know, if you can exit marriage so easy and lots of people do, what's the point of it?
01:35:05
Yeah. You know, like you know, marriage has been a complete failure. Yeah. But as much as been a success,
01:35:09
no, but do you think you you you're yet to find that one that one true love and
01:35:12
may maybe you need to become more the person that that you're growing into before that person is
01:35:17
Yeah. Look, you know, um, and I haven't been looking, so, you know, but I have started thinking about
01:35:25
this and in the leadup to speaking with you today. I actually asked myself that question last night, strangely. Is there
01:35:31
is there's no one really at the moment, you know, that I haven't put myself out there and I'm
01:35:37
not interested. You're not on any of the apps. [ __ ] No. There was that thing. No, no, no, no. I
01:35:42
talked to guy on Spinner about this. No, it's too weird. It's too weird. He was on it and then it
01:35:47
became a story in the spy. Embarrassing. He was like you with the Ashley Madison
01:35:51
scandal. Well, well, we did. So, so Ashley Madison, by the way, it's a dating website,
01:35:56
but we did that at Radio Live as a as a as I'm there was a big like data leak and you
01:36:00
were on there. Well, yeah. But we we were on there because what we did was we were we were
01:36:05
doing it at Radio Live for a so we did a big thing. Could I get a date on Radio Live that afternoon? So, I was on there
01:36:11
openly on there because our social media people signed signed us up. Um uh I also
01:36:16
went on um I think we went on Tinder once too um for that purpose. Uhuh. And um and I ended up with like I ended up
01:36:22
the only person that you know wanted me was was this woman with like 15 cats or something like
01:36:28
but I have seen how it works. I know this guy this mate of mine who you know it was a hookup site. He was on Tinder
01:36:33
and he'd say DD look this place go look at this ding ding ding bang you you. I
01:36:37
mean I don't want that you know. Yeah. But how do you meet people that you know
01:36:41
I'm quite old fashioned in that sense. Yeah. Um Yeah, I understand that. I feel
01:36:45
like you just you're happy on your own, but then like Yes. No, the silence for me in my life
01:36:49
is definitely like listen to this. That's definitely, you know, like so if I want to drop my son off to his mom, I
01:37:03
might be driving back to home and I had this house and it was dark and then it was empty and the girls were,
01:37:12
you know, they're older now. 219 one's my youngest daughter's in one she's
01:37:17
living her life my 21-year-old's at university going to do honors and things
01:37:21
you know they they're away but it's definely you know I I and maybe I am ADHD maybe I
01:37:27
need people around me I need something cuz there's a there's a difference
01:37:30
between being alone and being lonely like being lonely is terrible being alone is fine I love being alone
01:37:36
I hate being lonely I I love being alone there's some stats that say like loneliness is a like a bigger killer
01:37:42
than cigarettes Um, well, no one's smoking anymore. So, you can you can vape and still be lonely. But, you know,
01:37:50
loneliness is a killer, you know, and my mom has been lonely at times in the last
01:37:53
13 years when the dad has been there. She said the greatest thing about me going to live with her was that she can
01:37:58
hear the noise in the house again. Yeah. You know, and she's right beside a school, Gra. And I will hear her. I I
01:38:05
will hear all these kids. So, I'll go I'll go home shortly and I'll jump on my
01:38:08
computer and do some work. I'll hear the kids playing. It's joyful and it's it's
01:38:13
a great filler, you know. So that's been good for mom that noise next door. But
01:38:15
when it's not there, my mom can fall into a little hole, you know. So So in many ways, it's good to be going
01:38:23
home, too, cuz I'm doing something for mom. Yeah. Even though she's doing everything for
01:38:26
me, I'm doing something for her, you know. Well, you're helping each helping each
01:38:29
other. And I think that's that's a good thing being a, you know, that's what
01:38:31
family's for, and friends to lean on. Well, when you need families are families family's like your best mates.
01:38:37
They should always have the couch available for you and they should always be there, you know. And um they'll
01:38:42
they'll protect you and when you're most vulnerable. They won't judge you and
01:38:46
um my mom's like that, you know. The door I I need help. Mom opens the door and sit down there. We'll sort this out.
01:38:54
You're you're safe now. You know, that's how I feel about with all this turmoil and change.
01:38:58
Yeah. How it's it's peace. It's a serene place. It's content. Yeah. I'll put on I'll put
01:39:03
on Sky TV, whatever. or watch some foot and this is okay this is familiar again you know
01:39:09
um cuz the turmoil of you know lawyers don't care about your marriage break up
01:39:13
they they just want someone to rinse you it's [ __ ] brutal you know I wanted to
01:39:18
take the other lawyer out you know I was [ __ ] threatening all sorts of things in my head you know just settle this
01:39:23
[ __ ] thing just settle stop asking stupid questions and cost me another grand just settle now
01:39:30
it's taking us six weeks to to which we could have done six weeks ago for [ __ ]
01:39:33
sake that's rough anyway I'm not bitter and twisted. I'm over it. I'm fine.
01:39:36
I I I can I can I can tell it's taken its toll on you, though. And I'm not
01:39:40
surprised. It's an ex it's an exhausting thing to go. It's tiring. Yeah.
01:39:43
You know, it it is. And you know, sometimes you just don't want to talk about it.
01:39:47
Um sometimes I'll be really angry with my mom. She said, "When's it going to
01:39:50
end?" I like, "Mom, you told me to get a good lawyer." Great lawyers just dragging on. You
01:39:55
know, you know, they're off overseas for six weeks shortly. How long we spoken for?
01:40:00
It's been an hour 40. Is that Is that one of your longest ones? Yeah, it's up there. I'm up there.
01:40:04
But I I appreciate it. I feel like we're just We're going to have to wrap it up
01:40:07
now, but I feel like we're just scratching the surface. So much more to chat about with you.
01:40:10
Is this a genuine podcast length? Cuz mine are about 45 minutes. Yeah. It depends. Some of them are like
01:40:15
under an hour. Some of them you go up near 2 hours. [ __ ] It's a long time, isn't it?
01:40:18
But it is. It's it's it's fun though. And I the sort of feedback I get from
01:40:22
people is like they say it's like eaves dropping in on a on a private conversation. And I love that sort of
01:40:26
tone. Do you know what the best podcasts are if someone else is in that room and you
01:40:30
don't realize they're there. So that's the listener. Yeah. And we just yarned and you know we've
01:40:34
got we've we've known each other a little bit over the years. Say good day.
01:40:36
And yeah, but this is the longest I've sat with someone and spoken to. It's
01:40:42
like a free counseling session. Do you think I'm I'm a strange guy? Do you think I'm a complex strange?
01:40:48
Weird. Yes. Yes, you are. Yeah. I wouldn't say weird. I'd say I'd say um
01:40:52
complex though. But I think um I think I am too. I think a lot of people are. Yeah. I think you are.
01:40:56
I think you have to embrace it. You're a lad from the provinces that came to the
01:40:59
city and had a great time and you're very talented guy and and and you've
01:41:02
done well work hard and you're driven you've you've driven [ __ ] off hard
01:41:08
and probably have and then sacrificed relationship marriages as a result. Yeah. I I look back on um
01:41:16
because I wanted to be successful for my family. It's the exactly the same with me and
01:41:19
JJ. I I feel like I I worked hard on my career or our career but not hard on the
01:41:25
relationship. And then uh if you don't water something, it doesn't grow.
01:41:28
And and and that's so important. You know how many people lift the lid and work on the engine of the relationship?
01:41:34
They don't. They expect it just to be good all the time. It it wears thin. You lose respect. Something happens.
01:41:40
It's over. Yeah. You cannot share the lounge, the bedroom, the the the house anymore with someone who who's
01:41:49
done something to you or crossed you or disrespected you. So many times the tire
01:41:53
the tread on the tire gets them you know but you see this is why I think you could have another relationship like
01:41:59
you've learned all this stuff you learn so much and then um you take that forward with you so maybe that one true
01:42:04
love maybe maybe I am looking for that but maybe I'm so weary and so battle aren't
01:42:09
that uh any anything on anything that anyone I come across that shows any exhibits any signs of you know alarm
01:42:16
bells in the past I've said I'll work on that and I'll marry them now I'm like
01:42:20
[ __ ] Yeah. You know what I mean? You can't change someone. Yeah. Um I I believe that um you can't change
01:42:25
someone. No, you are who you are. But especially men, like we should probably only be let out when we're 40, you know.
01:42:30
Lock us up in a Mariah we're 40 and then let us out under supervision till we're
01:42:34
50 and then let us go and do it now. But even then we we'd have we'd be wanting
01:42:38
to release and pop, you know? Do you think do you think all the naughty and bad stuff is out of you?
01:42:44
Um I'm um I'm I'm pretty calm these days. I I've still got in like um I think I'm a
01:42:50
good person now, but I've still got some inner demons. Do you think you weren't a good person?
01:42:54
I I always have been, but I'm just I'm not overly kind to myself. I'm very hard
01:42:57
on myself. Ah, see you got to stop that. You're beating yourself up, right? Yeah. My my inner voice is terrible at
01:43:02
times. I'm a bully. Are you Catholic? Yeah, there we go. Raised Catholic. Yeah, that sums it up. My best mate
01:43:08
Catholic um has done some real bad [ __ ] in his life and um he would ring me. This is when he was allowed to ring me
01:43:15
because my wife stopped him from ringing. Um he would ring and say oh with the basics D. Yeah I'm a terrible
01:43:21
I'm terrible mate you know. So and I say no you know just one of the lads this is
01:43:25
you. It's the Catholicism but the first I blame that is Catholic guilt is real
01:43:31
is very low. Catholic it has to be. But Catholic guilt is real you know and I worry I
01:43:38
went to this I went to this party you know with all the all the boys you know just after we went under.
01:43:43
Most of the guys are from a Catholic school. I was mates with a lot of girls from different schools. This Catholic
01:43:47
boys and um that's different breed you know we just we just you know with the breastian boys we just oh yeah we
01:43:57
[ __ ] up. They would almost be in half denial and half trying to turn into success and then they know they were
01:44:01
bad. It's all over the show. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Hey Ghana, it's been um it's
01:44:06
been wonderful man. It's I appreciate you coming around and um having this conversation. I think um the big
01:44:11
takeaway from for me from this chat is probably just what a good dad you are and how much how much love you have for
01:44:15
your for your son in particular. I suppose that's to do with the proximity and being a soul caregiver.
01:44:22
He's with me a lot of time. So that's Yeah. It doesn't mean I don't love the
01:44:24
others. No, no, no, no, no. Not saying that. I I have done and they've moved on to
01:44:29
I'm proud of what they're doing now, but I've still got the care of this boy, you
01:44:32
know. And all right. Well, don't plan on moving up north just yet cuz I still I still feel
01:44:36
like you've got a lot to offer. maybe even that your your best career years are ahead of you if you want them to be.
01:44:41
Well, you know, because I've learned so much from the past that maybe that maybe
01:44:44
there is and I'm excited. I actually am really excited about what what what I'm
01:44:48
doing now and and seeing what you're doing as well as, you know, um there's
01:44:52
shitload more to do. Yeah, 100%. Best place to leave it. Thanks, Duncan Garner. Thank you, Dom Harvey. Good on you,
01:44:59
mate. [Music] Hey,