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[Music] Sam Clark welcome to my podcast cheers thank you app you're a little um a
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little nervous this is your first podcast experience yeah oh I'd be yeah lying if I'm lying if I'm not not like I
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was saying to you before sort of not my personality to talk about myself especially in deep um or in sort of more
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lengthy conversations I'm more the kind of guy that just sit around and like to
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listen when when people talk but yeah definitely taking something out of the um out of my comfort zone new experience
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so yeah yeah cuz you you messaged me um on Instagram maybe a couple of months ago and we were just going backwards and
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forwards and uh you had some kind words about some previous episodes I've done
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that sort of helped you and then um I suggested that you'd be a good podcast
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guest uh you said [ __ ] off pretty much a little bit polter and then uh after after chatting
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about it with your wife uh you came back and said yeah maybe give it a go yeah yeah it was after I listened to your
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episode with um jenet redond and I think that um that afternoon I'd sort of come
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back from a psychologist appointment and um was not in the not in a good head space just feeling a bit [ __ ] and then
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listening to your episode where you sort of opened up and um yeah it was openly vulnerable sort of just gave me a bit of
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perspective of what I was going through it's normal and it's and it's okay so
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just thought that I'd flick your message just to say there was a appreciated um
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but yeah I did decline no no was it was um the message was really really kind and it's great to
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um have you here today and um what you have been through is um anything but normal um and we can get into this in as
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as much or as little detail as as what you're comfortable with but um yeah 20th
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of July 2023 take it take us back to that that that day that morning um yeah so we were
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I was working on on this it was about 7:20 in the morning and I was working um on this work group called opt
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which was part of this tactical response model in the police um and I remember that we were in
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the office and we which is we were out manal so traffic was shocking that time of the morning and we heard on the radio
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that a job had come in for a on Queen Street seen with a um shotgun and that was all the initial information so we um
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started to K up um ready to deploy to it um then we got we got updates that he had gone into a construction site and
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shots had been fired and I think someone had been um H at that point um sorry and yeah so we we floyed um we
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were a team of four um came in F rush hour traffic basically the whole way into the into
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the City and I remember um hearing on the radio that U there were more shots um more shots going off in the
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construction site and that there had been uh more people injured and at some stage I think
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police had already been shot at from the offender um yeah so we we got in there um and I remember
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thinking the whole way in that you know oh we're we're fighting rush hour
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traffic to get in there you know you're we're not going to get there in time you
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know he's police already front line guys and girls are already there um we just
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they're going to deal with it you know before we sort of get there for the not
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the good parts but for the to actually see some bit of action um but it kept unfolding we started get a
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little bit closer and started realizing okay we might actually be on here and have to really get stuck into work
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um yes so we pulled up um got all our um kit out I was driving and I remember when we pulled up or just before we
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pulled up the rest of the boys started chucking on their helmets their ballistic helmets and obviously I was
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driving so I couldn't couldn't put my one on and when we pulled up one of the
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boys just chucked me um a random helmet cuz mine was in the squad room at the time so it was someone else's
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helmet and I remember getting out of the car and looking at looking at my helmet
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and you could hear at this point gunshots going off in the construction site um which was down on one one Queen
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Street I think it was yes so you could hear gunshots going off and I remember looking at my helmet and having kind of
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like that feeling inside of [ __ ] I actually probably don't have time to actually put this on you know there's a
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guy in the construction site that's actively killing people or trying to attempt in to kill people and injure
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them um and just thought nah [ __ ] it I'll take the sorry I swear a bit that's
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all right that's a podcast I yeah so remember looking my helmet and thinking
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now I'll just take 20 seconds I'll just take 20 seconds to put it on um and what
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what ended up being fine cuz by that point the the rest of the boys had gone to the back in of the car and St and
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pull out some like first aid um kits and I think one one of the guys originally tried to pull out the shield and thought
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now bug of this um the defender was up on like level 18 so he I'm not carrying
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this all the way up so chucked it back um yeah went into the construction site I think when we got there he was on
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level it was either around level 18 or over 15 around there so we started um going up basically with our steer
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drills and and I remember you know there was um blood like from arterial bleeds when they bleed they squirt out so there
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was blood on the side of the um concrete slabs in the staircase there were empty
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shotgun casings on the on the staircase um there were victims that were running down that had um like
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gunshot wounds to their hands and arms um we just had to bypass them you know sort of our priority is to stop the
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offending and then then we look to provide medical assistance where we can mhm um yes we got ended up getting all
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the way up to level 20 um where some of the other guys that were on Squad um sorry on the
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um had already chased him up there and he had gone into like a elevator two elevator shafts that were under
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construction um so the decision was made that okay we would drop down two levels to try and
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isolate him in those shafts so that essentially he couldn't get back down past us back out onto another floor and
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keep shooting and looking for more victims essentially um like it's a lot going on very quickly
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yeah oh yeah it sort of took like we I remember we left manal at 7 from memory it was about 7:30 in the morning um and
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you're fighting rush hour traffic so really you're probably not getting in
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there to about maybe 20 minutes 30 minutes so he had a lot of time to do some damage I mean once once you and the
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rest of your AOS arm Defender Squad mates are in there it's like Split Second decisions isn't it oh 100% um and
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I got to take my hat off to you know the AL for commander who ran that ran the job you know he's he's the one that's
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we're just executing his decisions essentially and following orders yeah and and he's
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having to make them um within yeah like you say a split second that no we are going to go down two floors um to try
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and isolate them so a few of of us went down back down from level 20 down to 18 um and there were
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four like um plywood doors that were ped locked shut so where the elevator doors
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will eventually go they were just a hinged piece of plywood essentially temporary door and there were four of
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them lined up so we started to work on the first one just to start breaching them open so that we could properly
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contain him the offender um so I helped out on the the first door that was there um we breached
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that and it was just an open um essentially an open Elevator Shaft so there was nothing inside it just dropped
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straight down um and at this point I could see for some reason they we missed two
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doors and went to the last door in the row um and I could see two of the boys already working on that door so um
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usually with like with our drills you want three three people there ideally so I pushed over um I pushed over to where
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they were and we started to get to work on that door um yeah so the door we breached the door
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and essentially as the doors opened with we all we've been looking at is like a
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pitch black um Pitch Black space and basically as soon as that door has opened um two gunshots have gone off
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from the the offender um and I just remember feeling a massive thump to the side of my head and my com
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set falling off so it was then it was dangling down my back um so obviously that kind of knocked me backwards and
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all my ass a little bit um one of the Dog Handlers came around and grabbed kind of grabbed me around the corner and
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which just took off my helmet um checked everything over checked that my head was
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all good there was no obvious blood or anything um yeah put the helmet back on and came back around the corner to keep
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doing the job with the boys oh so you're back to work yeah yeah but but at that
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point there was there was a few other obviously once we had been shot a few of the boys had pushed past us and had put
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themselves in a position where they were doing the work basically at that point but came back around to join the stack
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with them um to be useful where possible and yeah yeah you um what what does it feel like when you get
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shot in a ballistics helmet with a with with a bullet um I wouldn't recommend it
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that um I mean you you you've done um you you do Iron Man events and you've
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done trions you must have fallen off a bike before is it similar to falling off a bike with a helmet on or is it does
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does it feel like someone's punched you in the it feels like someone's yeah like
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you've just clocked one to the side of the head basically so you sort of like a
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bit bewildered yeah yeah enough to like make you sort of stumble backwards um um a
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little bit and the helmet definitely did its job um yeah it's not something I'd i'
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recommend I think all I had in the end was a bit of a mild concussion which is what I walked away with thankfully um
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yeah because I I looked this up yesterday just to um remind myself of um yeah what happened that day so the
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shooter was a a 24-year-old who was on um um electronically mon monitored bail with permission to go to work so I went
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work in commercial Bay with a with a G gun as we know um killed two of his colleagues uh wounded seven other people
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including a police officer and then um killed himself so the police officer that was injured that's not you so two
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of us got shot right yeah so um one of us and I I sort of don't want to talk
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about um he's a good mate and sort of his recounter the events is sort of his
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story story to tell but yeah so he he received more physical injuries um but we were both at that door at the same
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time and he got one shot and I got the other one essentially right yeah so so when we read that report like one one
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police officer injured like it doesn't count the block that got a shot in the
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head with it shot to the shot to the head but it was concussion just a concussion yeah doesn't count to the
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stats um then when when do you find out that the um the the gunman has killed himself um so obviously we I was there
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once um once it all kind of eventuated and resolved itself um but yeah he just heard him essentially just um shoot
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himself basically and then there was a bit of a delay just voice appealing them the the guys did a good job with um
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after we had both of us had been shot there was a bit of a delay so they start voice peeling them out to try and not
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just rush in and take action you know they still had their thought okay let's
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try an alternative means um yeah so arrest them yeah yeah but must be a crazy chaotic environment
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like just shouting yelling yeah like you could hear um when we're going up the staircase originally
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at the staircase it was 15 flights or so 20 flights to go up but yeah you can hear people screaming for help and
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victims in the um in the stairwell that you know had gunshot wounds and and you can't help them you know because you're
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still someone that's um actively offending and that's our priority unfortunately is to bypass the injured
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and deal with the offender neutralize him whether it's take him into custody
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or whatever um before we can actually look at providing first aid um yeah so then so so after it reaches its um
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conclusion um what what happens then so you s sit down and have a have a coffee or would
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have been nice um n so we had to I had a um throbbing headache and was felt like
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dizzy for about a couple hours um but essentially us myself and a couple of the others that were involved in the
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critical ending aspect of it um we kind of got put to the side and kind of not really to talk to sort
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of any of the other guys that were coming and going just from like investigation purposes so we kind of got
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put to the side and essentially what happens is um the team gets formed up and they clear the whole entire
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construction site so that took 4 hours that we were stuck up on level 18 and they had to clear 18 floors down to make
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sure that there's definitely no more offenders there's the one hiding um
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that's injured or um yeah so we I essentially had to wait the 4 hours till I could get get out and um to the
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ambulance and I just remember being busting for a piss the whole time um I was there's nowhere there's
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nowhere to go can you go on your helmet yeah yeah well that was already right off so as well um did did you did you
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have your phone on you are you able to yeah so get hold of your wife my wife was ringing me
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um and how how I handled I mean she tells it a lot better than than I do but how I handled that whole situation
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afterwards and her words could have been a lot better um yeah so she rang me once
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and I'm I was looking at her and this was when we kind of seen to the side I
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had throbbing headache and um sort of coming round to actually what how processing what happened I was yeah yeah
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um and so she's ringing me and I it it popped up and I remember looking at her
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and thinking [ __ ] I can't answer this you know and I felt like at that point I
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wanted to cry um just sort of seing her her pop up and I was like thinking [ __ ]
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how am I going to explain this one you know like um so I didn't answer that call and then she rang again I didn't
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answer that one meanwhile she's panicking more and more with every call yeah and and and she she says it a lot a
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lot better but she had she had no idea what was going on she had dropped out door off at daycare and her phone was
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blowing up saying this I hope Sam's all good and had a whole bunch of messages
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and she's like I don't even know what's happening so then naturally she starts
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pening and it wasn't once she read started looking online and she had saw what had unfolded she then tried
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reaching out but I ended up just texting her um and this is the bit that I could
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have handled better um they just said I I'm all good um I got hit in the helmet
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but I'm fine and that was all I left was that was all I lefted it very economical with your words yeah yeah
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yeah and she say what do you mean like hit with what a bullet or Capal and I was like yeah yeah but I'm
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fine um but yeah we've we've talked about that and how to if if it was to
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happen again how to how to handle handle it a little bit better but it's a surreal situation isn't it Ian you're in
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shock she's panicked yeah yeah like I don't know how else do you explain it
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like yeah I did get hit but I'm fine um without going into can't sit there and
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tex out everything that's happened you know no blow by blow yeah there's yeah
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time for that later on I guess but you can understand it from her perspective but also I can understand it from yourp
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100% yeah I'd be freaking out too if if I was in her shoes you know so when so
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when when you when you um get reunited with her later that day what happened you burst into tears what are you um so
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I ended up having to go through the hospital right so once we came out of the site four or so hours later went
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through the hospital and they just did some like CT scans on my head just to make sure that there wasn't any
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permanent damage and it just to confirm basically it was just a concussion um so
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she ended up coming into hospital to meet me there um yeah I don't I I actually can't
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really remember what I kind of felt at the time I think I was probably still had that mess of adrenaline dump and
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um yeah I I remember her like walking in to the hospital and being like sort of feeling grateful and thankful that she
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was there but the yeah like wasn't overly emotional I think it was just cuz I still had that mess of adrenaline dump
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from the whole cortisol levels must have been through the [ __ ] ro oh yeah yeah
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I remember not sleeping that night and um just cuz you're playing it over and
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over and over again um yeah yeah so so armed Defender Squad um so you have the um the bulletproof
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helmet on which saved your life what else have on do you have like a a bulletproof chest vest or so we on the
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team that we were working we were just in normal Blues like like the normal police that you see so we essentially
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the trm model was created after conal Matt hunt was murdered um as a a way to essentially try and provide more support
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to the front line so we were a work group that had four um AOS members on it but we were
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dressed them out Blues to kind of to essentially you the idea behind it so that you could think you looking at a
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normal Frontline p PST cop but you've actually got four AOS qualified guys there so that day we were just working
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in our in our normal blue uniform but yeah we so we had our bass on and we just used to carry our helmets in the
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car in case we went to a job that escalated at least we had the re some resources to do what we needed to while
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we waited for the rest of the squad to come out so presumably it was like a wild shot rather than a targeted shot so
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it could have easily got you in the in the chest in the in the arm yeah essentially so I think we ended up
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thankfully we ended up being about a meter and a half 2 m away from him behind the door and i' still have never
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seen him like it's still like last thing I remember was just looking at a black
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um black um space essentially um so it was a blessing in disguise that both of us were really close so the helmet took
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the full impact um so essentially the pallets are kind of St in like a wng that comes out so they're in a shotgun
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shell they're yeah a bunch of pallets basically and because we were so close
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they didn't have time to spread um whereas I think if we were maybe a oh I was maybe a couple meters 2 3 m back
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that spread probably would have been a bit wider and probably would have come down into the neck area
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um yeah I think thankfully I know um I don't know maybe maybe I'm not the
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tallest bloke the I think if I was a bit taller that you know what was up here could have maybe been down a little bit
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lower um what other helmets is there like a is it like a face guard or is no there no face guard just literally just
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a right just a ballistic helmet that's just got um they look like um your a Ms
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on the side but they're a com set so you can still it's sound reducing to loud
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desile so if a gunshot went off it would block that out but you could still talk
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as normal to each other um but yeah no face shield um and I wasn't wearing glasses um at the time either just cuz I
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didn't have any um yeah he was sh there was a lot that went lucky that day isn't there oh yeah
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and I just think back to you know if I just remember stearing when we arrived looking at my helmet and thinking
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hearing gunshots you could hear people scream inside for help and you're like
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[ __ ] I probably don't have time to put this on you know but having I'm just going to take 20 seconds
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or 30 seconds whatever it was to put the helmet on make sure I'm ready to go so
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that when we go in I'm as prepared as possible and yeah thank God I did yeah
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so when when uh what happens after that do you go back to work or did you just never return to work in your day no so
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we um the police actually have a really good reintegration program yeah um so immediately after I think they sort of
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gives you like oh you can have five I think it was about 5 days off but at that point you know you're going to a
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psychologist straight away um you're getting you got medical appointments just to get the doctors sign off um got
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meetings with the lawyers obviously there's a criminal investigation aspect of it as well um to figure out what
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actually happened so we the association kind of set us up with um yes you get into talk to a lawyer just to make sure
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what the statement that you're going to give is is all it off and appropriate
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essentially um so that was about 5 days and I think after that 5 days I I went back and and asked for more days off cuz
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I kind of didn't really have a break afterwards you know we had all these appointments had to go see the
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psychologist doctors lawyers appointments you know everyone's checking in on you the commissioner of
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the police was um ringing to check in um the guys on just that you work with always Chicken in so I didn't really
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feel like I had that break not really not really a break so I said to my like I just oh can you just just say I need
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another I think it was about like six more days off and at that six days I just didn't pick up my phone or anything
00:25:14
and actually had six days off seems like the duty of care from what you're describing the duty of Care on behalf of
00:25:20
that like the place was really good it is really good yeah and they and they don't pressure you to go back either so
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they um they Sorry Kan is distracting me um they yeah um so yeah their reintegration
00:25:36
program is really good so they sort of you catch up for a coffee with the reintegration team and they say like
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essentially what do you feel like you want to do to ease you back into work so for me I said I wanted to do some um
00:25:51
like just listening to gunshots again um what else did we do we did some uh um went back did some shooting and
00:26:01
then just did some shooting in the dark so sort of just getting in the habit of chucking on the light doing some
00:26:08
shooting there but they they literally ease you into it like we started off with but by the way I'm just going to
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pause you there I don't think you realize how unusual that sentence or paragraph is like easing back into work
00:26:19
by listening to gunshot noises and shooting in the dark like it's it's [ __ ] up yeah it is it is [ __ ] up but
00:26:27
that's the environment that you're working you know um how how hard was it
00:26:31
to do that stuff at the time it was fine yeah um at the time it was yeah it was it was fine like we went to the range
00:26:41
and we um literally stood outside and yeah so we stood outside the range and US listen to someone shooting inside
00:26:54
and then you get closer to the door and you listen to it and then they open the door to the range and you listen to the
00:26:59
gunshots and they'll just shoot and you just kind of make your way closer and
00:27:04
closer till you're standing next to the operator that's shooting just to expose
00:27:07
you to it again um and then you take your ear M off if you want to um yeah so they really ease you back into and
00:27:16
they're very open to like whatever you feel like you need to do they'll make it
00:27:22
happen you know um well it's it's such um such an important job but also such
00:27:27
an unusual job as well yeah yeah it really is so so when do so you you do go back to work yeah so I went back um I
00:27:35
went back from this was July and I ended up leaving in October end of October I ended up leaving the police so yes I
00:27:43
went back was that July August about 3 months was it your decision to leave or like a a co-joined decision with your
00:27:49
wife so looking at it now and this is sort of like the I even though me and her have
00:27:57
had really good conversations about it and talked about and I apologized to her with the way I kind of dealt with it
00:28:04
afterwards but like once I kind of did my reintegration and figured okay yeah there's no triggers that I'm reacting to
00:28:13
or feeling stressed about um it was kind of back to business as usual you know it
00:28:20
was um it was one of the still at at the time it was the best job I've ever been been to you know you
00:28:30
people will be in the police and on AOS for their whole lives or their whole career and never get to be exposed to an
00:28:36
incident like that so it's so even it's that's a horrible thing it's still oh
00:28:41
it's still highlight highlight my you know that's what we train for you know
00:28:44
all of our training is um worst case scenario and that is worst case scenario so it actually get to be deployed and be
00:28:52
at the pointy end of it is sort a highlight of my career um is that why you're so BL when you arrive so Blas
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about the the helmet because things like this just don't thankfully don't happen
00:29:04
all that often yeah yeah and yeah potentially um yeah and it was just kind of had the equipment there so you just
00:29:14
use it right um but yes I ended up leaving in October I wasn't leave I wasn't planning on leaving I was still
00:29:20
enjoying work and I'm happy had some good jobs after that that we went to and
00:29:26
the confidence was there and there wasn't any issues but my wife was still kind of struggling with it a little bit
00:29:33
um like she was getting like we would get I'd get called out in the middle of the night and then
00:29:40
she's not sleeping now because she's stressed well last time he got a call
00:29:44
out he nearly died essentially so naturally she's um anxious and her anxiety's um no good so she was kind of
00:29:55
struggling with with it a little bit and an opportunity out of the blue popped up
00:30:00
to sort of go do some different work um that was just kind of I looked at it as kind of
00:30:08
meant to be and kind of I wasn't looking for it and it sort of came looking for
00:30:12
me so yeah just talked to Jess about it and at the time it was the best decision
00:30:18
for both of us I think to to go do something else yeah cuz you got two two daughters as well what are the age of
00:30:24
Ages of your daughters uh so at the time Florence was it was 10 days before her third birthday and then uh my wife was
00:30:33
pregnant at the time so that didn't help either um yeah I'm M I'm I'm um I'm amazed you
00:30:41
went back to work at all oh that's it's it's hard cuz it's like like I sort of said it's it's what
00:30:49
we train for you know like that's to be involved in a job like that was all a
00:30:54
lot of our training was training for a situation like that and it did feel at the time it felt like a scenario like
00:31:01
our scenarios in training we we'll have role players and um depending on to be hon some of some of the
00:31:09
exercises you know they will get um they will be running around and screaming at
00:31:14
you and it did it just felt like a scenario that we're stacked up um at the car and they said cool scenario begins
00:31:21
and you do your run through and and that's what it felt like on the day so it just showed that the training that we
00:31:26
had been doing had prepared us appropriate for it I think we we were just set up we just had the
00:31:35
disadvantage essentially so um where the offend ended up being you know we were standing in an open construction floor
00:31:44
that had the skyline as a background and he's in a dark room so the minute that
00:31:48
door opens he's looking he's seeing all these Silhouettes against the Blue Sky
00:31:53
backdrop and we're steering into a black room so I don't think it would have
00:32:00
mattered who was at the door or if we had have done anything different we he just had the advantage over us basically
00:32:06
and and what we do isn't isn't I don't want to say bulletproof cuz it wasn't
00:32:11
bulletproof but but it's not that's not like we take away some of the risk but
00:32:17
you don't take away all of it you know well there's always going to be some
00:32:19
unnown there isn't there yeah um Al so so how long had you had you been in the
00:32:23
place and then what's the training that's involved in becoming a member of
00:32:26
the Armed Defender Squad um so I joined in 2019 I think graduated September um and I did my um AOS
00:32:38
selection course um I think it was it February I think it was February 2022 so it was yeah it was about a year
00:32:48
and maybe 3 four months in to the job but that was all I kind of wanted to do once um once I found out about the AOS n
00:32:58
Defender Squad my whole intention of joining the police was to go down that route so once I kind of ticked all the
00:33:05
boxes I needed to on being front line PST the first selection that came around I just chucked in my application and
00:33:14
thought buger give it a correct and what's what's bu give it a correct what's of what's of trainings involved
00:33:22
with that um so they do so each district will do a so each district has their own
00:33:29
Squad so Oakland will run a essentially a one-day selection process and it's
00:33:35
just soort without giving it all away that's um there's like some exams scenarios and physical aspects of it um
00:33:44
like pack work and resilience um exercises so you do the one- day selection course and they the Oakland
00:33:52
Squad then will like let's say if there's 25 people that apply for it and
00:33:57
do the course they might take three or four that they think are these are the ones that would want um on our Squad so
00:34:04
then you get sent down to Wellington um all the districts send down their their applicants and you do a 4-day selection
00:34:13
course and that one's that one's a bit more in depth and yeah it's a lot of you
00:34:18
know you're not getting much sleep and they just really work work you down mentally and physically and you
00:34:27
know you're not getting too much food and your sleep's limited and then they'll put you through scenarios to
00:34:33
make sure that even in that state you're still making right sound decisions essentially sounds like a mini sort of
00:34:40
version of like hellick that they have in the Navy Seals yeah probably not as as as as hardcore but a lot of it's more
00:34:49
like you want have it's more around your decision making um because that's a big
00:34:55
aspect of the police you know we not going out there just trying to kill people you're trying to actually
00:35:01
preserve life so you have to have make sound decisions um and they're just testing you for you could you
00:35:09
could come off a work at night shift and then just goes off for an hour and then
00:35:15
get a call out and you the expectation is you're should be making the right decisions after that and that's what
00:35:22
they do through the selection process is just basically break you down and then Chuck you through scenarios to make sure
00:35:30
you don't [ __ ] up too badly yeah were there any other like memorable jobs or
00:35:34
anything that you're involved with what does like an average week look like for
00:35:37
an a guy well it's part-time um so we sort of had our ba so our kind of our normal jobs and the AOS
00:35:47
was just a part-time gig so there were there were guys on Squad that were detectives or had climbed the ranks and
00:35:54
were in management roles or there was us that were still working front line um but then when a call out would come in
00:36:01
or a job was planned You' then go to that um so it's a real real variety of
00:36:08
of people that are on Squad you know you could someone that you'd be sort of
00:36:13
calling sir and Senior Sergeant but once they come on to an AOS job and if they're not running the job and they
00:36:22
just in the stack with you you know they're you feel like oh we're just the
00:36:26
same you know um yeah so it's kind of hard to tell to say what it looks like
00:36:31
because it it wasn't fulltime you know everyone's day to-day looked looked a
00:36:35
lot different to each others and what do you miss about the job um anything I I'd be lying if I said
00:36:44
I didn't miss it um I missed the I missed like every now and then when I see like the um the Deltas so the
00:36:56
the dog units or or a cop car with its license arm I'm going to a job you kind
00:37:02
of get that fomo you know you feel like you're wonder what they're going to and
00:37:06
what you're missing out on but um no I actually don't miss it as much as I
00:37:12
thought I would but sort of since I've come out you know yeah kind of realize
00:37:19
kind of did everything that I wanted to you know I didn't really want to be a
00:37:23
detective or I didn't want to climb the ranks um I got to see some action so
00:37:28
that my next move was well what's best to sort of set the family up and it was
00:37:34
probably leaving and going into kind of like the private sector in corporate world it's probably quite
00:37:40
um there'll be a strange answer for a lot of people that you see you see sirens and you get fomo but to me I
00:37:46
think that's a good answer cuz the alternative to that is like you you you go into like pdsd or panic mode or get
00:37:53
all triggered when that happens and that' be being on high alert like that would be no no sort of way to live your
00:37:59
life so when did the therapy journey start um so straight afterwards I was I was fine um I did my psychologist
00:38:08
appointments and I think I didn't really I didn't deal with it properly straight
00:38:13
afterwards you just sort of ticking the boxes or yeah I kind of tick the boxes and because I was still working in in
00:38:19
that environment you know I had to be in that mindset of um you know I can't
00:38:24
really let myself get into that state because if a job comes up tomorrow I need to be
00:38:31
switched on and ready to perform essentially um and this was sort of an area I touched on before not kind of
00:38:39
handling it well with Jess you know like I'd be like around openly say oh yeah it
00:38:44
was the best job of my life and she's there you're a [ __ ] idiot like you nearly you nearly died
00:38:49
and you're hear going on about how was the best job that you've been to and
00:38:55
like just like so Blas about what happened without actually taking into account like she nearly lost everything
00:39:02
you know um and here I was I did nearly lose everything but it was still I was doing the job that I like to do and it
00:39:11
was something that I wanted to do um where she had a lot more to lose so yeah so it was fine at the beginning um and
00:39:17
then it wasn't until I left and um the beginning of March and it was was it yeah it would have been around March and
00:39:25
Guy Forks weekend where guy Fork started and I just started noticing that I was starting to get like flashbacks and
00:39:35
starting to have dreams about the incident um just like about the things that you saw and yeah the things I saw
00:39:41
and it kept kind of coming back every time I was hearing um every time I was hearing like at that time was the
00:39:49
fireworks I could just picture us back at the door staring at the it just be like a very clear image of us back there
00:39:57
standing at the door looking at a black space um getting shot and at first I was like ah like
00:40:05
whatever it will it will go and classic just park it um move get on with it um but it kept kind of going on for a
00:40:14
couple of weeks and then I started noticing like it wasn't just fireworks I heard loud bangs or car backfire um or
00:40:23
looking at um looking at construction sites started to trigger um even seeing like at this point our
00:40:33
second daughter was born and sort of seeing my oldest daughter interacting with our little one so whether they were
00:40:42
like there was one occasion where there were um Frankie our our little one was lying on the ground and Florence was I
00:40:49
just walked in and happened to see Florence was sitting next to her talking to her and without even realizing that
00:40:56
kind of triggered me and I just started feeling like this real tight feeling in my chest and um Palms were getting
00:41:03
sweaty and that was kind of when it started to sink in that [ __ ] I could have like been missing all of this um so
00:41:12
just sort of started to talk to Jess and just said oh I think I might just go back to the psychologist just
00:41:19
to just to get on to it now you know I'd hate for it to boil up till um when I'm 50
00:41:28
and then it really all comes out and and I can't control it at that point that
00:41:33
was quite smart rather than just bottling it up yeah it was I was nervous as [ __ ] to go you know like I don't know
00:41:40
and I think this is of what I said to you when I messaged you you know it's it's embarrassing you know and it
00:41:45
shouldn't be but for us as guys to actually open up about our feelings and talk about how we feel which I've never
00:41:53
done never done before you know I talk to Jess about things but if I didn't feel like I like really needed to I'd
00:42:02
just kind of gu it would be like oh well she'll be right even even with your
00:42:08
your partner I think um oh this is a generalization but I think most guys it's like you don't want to burden your
00:42:14
partner with it or you don't want them to worry or Panic so you probably keep
00:42:18
some stuff shielded because you think you're doing the right thing by them yeah but you're not no no 100% you're
00:42:24
not yeah yeah so that was um and I haven't this is like this is the first time I've really openly talked about it
00:42:33
you know I've talked to my I I eventually opened up about it to my parents um and yeah even my mates didn't
00:42:42
really don't really know um it wasn't until we had a bit of a catch up um with the guys that were involved in
00:42:51
the incident this was after I'd left the police and we CAU up with them and I
00:42:54
actually said to them I'm going back to the like colist I've just started to
00:42:59
notice I'm getting these triggers um and they were super supportive um well quite
00:43:05
thankful that my team leader on the day um he's a really good nice guy and and another one of our team leaders who
00:43:12
sort of runs the squad um right from the get-go they they've been on squad for a
00:43:19
while so you look up to them and they were right from the get-go super open with you know they go to a psychologist
00:43:25
and they highly recommend it and and keept going on and on about it so that that made me that without them knowing
00:43:32
that when the trigger started happening I keept thinking oh yeah well if these guys um are going and they're happy to
00:43:41
talk to me about it and I look up to them like it goes it's fine to go well that's um yeah that's how I ended up
00:43:47
with Janet Redmond on the podcast that was you talked about she's on the style
00:43:51
Bender movie um and I thought if if Israel is okay talking about this stuff um then then it made me feel more sort
00:44:00
of comfortable as well made it seem more accessible in a way yeah yeah that's
00:44:04
tough though yeah yeah and and I just sort of sort of my main reason why and this
00:44:12
is coming out of like even talking about it is out of my comfort zone you know but my main um reason for reaching out
00:44:19
and ended up changing my mind with when I originally said no no to to coming on was to if I can sort of
00:44:28
encourage one or two of the men and women that are in the police you know my my advice would be like it's the [ __ ]
00:44:36
that they're having to go to and deal with is not normal um and I wish now when I was
00:44:43
in I took advantage of the the services that they do offer even if I didn't feel
00:44:49
like I needed to um I if I was to go back I would have probably um just catch up with a psychologist even if it was
00:44:59
just once every 3 months just to see if there's anything that sort of needs to
00:45:04
be dealt with um yeah just front foot it yeah yeah you've even SE I've picked up
00:45:10
you've seen something um maybe two or three times in this chat which um to like to me isn't normal where you talk
00:45:16
about that job as being you like the best sort of the best job you've you've
00:45:21
ever been on I'm sort of paraphrasing here there'll be people listening to
00:45:24
this that are probably thinking um you know how how can he say this when when this guy killed two of his colleagues
00:45:31
but yeah from your perspective is it is it because you you know it could have been a lot worse and you
00:45:37
guys um you guys you guys Steed what could have potentially been like another Christ
00:45:42
Church yeah I think well yeah how how do you explain that yeah it's it's hard to
00:45:47
explain like I think it's because it's what what you trained for you know like
00:45:55
it was it was our time to like his actions and what he decided to do we have no control over you know whether we
00:46:05
win or not um at the end of the day he was going to go and do that you know so for us it was we were given the
00:46:12
opportunity to put our training into into actual use and to deploy um so it's
00:46:19
probably more from that that perspective you know it was um cuz I remember when we were driving in I remember being
00:46:26
nervous and and it was it was nerves of holy [ __ ] it's time to switch on and we
00:46:34
need to perform you know like your pregame nerves or before you're going to compete in something you're nervous
00:46:40
because you want to execute and perform mhm and that was the feeling that we had
00:46:44
was this is what we trained for um it's it's happening and we now need to step up and perform on the day um
00:46:56
yeah yeah it's hard it is hard to explain yeah but I mean I I can yeah I can I can understand it um I mean it
00:47:04
could have been a lot worse and the fact that you guys were there so quickly like
00:47:07
I remember that morning clearly I was running around that way and it was um it was alarming the whole the whole sort of
00:47:11
Central City was in lockdown yeah the day of the FIFA World Cup starting yeah yeah that's right so the timing wasn't
00:47:17
wasn't great um but yeah I don't know I've got so much respect for the so much
00:47:25
respect for the Frontline men and women of the police that also ran into that building because
00:47:31
we weren't the only ones in there you know before we got there it was your Frontline staff that ran in there
00:47:39
without hesitation to to deal with it you know like they're the ones that yeah to me they're the real heroes
00:47:51
in this because they only get limited training you know whereas we get we are open to so much more training and it's
00:48:02
expected that we're going to respond to these instances but for them to not have
00:48:08
the same caliber of training that we get and to still run into that building hearing
00:48:14
gunshots as victims and to put themselves on the line to try and save those people uh I don't know I just
00:48:22
constantly take my head off head off to them so what's your relationship with
00:48:27
therapy like now is it an ongoing thing or are you in so I'm still going um so I
00:48:33
actually go every week so I have been for last few months um yeah definitely still unpacking it um
00:48:41
like soort of now kind of I don't know on the journey if my psychologist is listening should
00:48:50
we pleased I threw that word in there um cuz it's not like me to talk about me being on a journey or anything
00:48:58
like this did you um did you have to go through many before you find find the right one like no I've been with one the
00:49:03
whole time okay yeah I um I I didn't go through anything um like traumatic or
00:49:10
any sort of like particular triggering event like you did but um I probably needed therapy for a long time before I
00:49:16
went to one I don't know why I was so nervous about it it's you look back and
00:49:19
it's dumb right it's dumb it's like a personal trainer for your for your head
00:49:23
basically it's nothing to be scared of but um yeah I was really reluctant and
00:49:27
kept on sort of putting it off it's good and a lot of people said to me oh you
00:49:31
may go and the first therapist you see you may not Jael and you may have to try a couple of others um before you settle
00:49:37
on one so it's good that you found one straight away yeah she's she's good she
00:49:40
out public CA ways and she's thankfully she's done a bit of work with the
00:49:43
Defense Force so when I first went to her I didn't have to explain what my job
00:49:48
was and she also saw my wife and she does a lot of work with other wives that are in the military and um so she also
00:49:57
so she knew what what we did and from Jess's perspective what she probably would have been dealing with from um the
00:50:06
wife's side of it um so it's just easy and yeah so it's still work in progress
00:50:13
um a lot more open to talking about it I still feel embarrassed at times um not talking about it yeah and I don't know
00:50:22
why you know I think it's you for a for us I don't know for a guy to openly be
00:50:29
vulnerable and put his hand up and say that oh no I do need help to sort of unpe something um yes very nice feeling
00:50:39
I'm I'm the same it's like the uh the podcast I did with um Janet Redmond um I
00:50:45
I I didn't even listen to that before like posting it and sharing it because I
00:50:48
just thought if I if I over analyze it I'm just not going to share it yes cuz
00:50:51
it's and it shouldn't be but it it it feels embarrassing yeah and I don't know what
00:50:56
exactly like what why you pinp put I think it's just cuz you're not like I don't know I was you know
00:51:04
you're you're not raised as a man you know to I just get on with it kind of um
00:51:11
just feels like if you show vulnerability you don't have your [ __ ] together which is completely untrue yeah
00:51:16
an AB way to think and I've heard you talk about it in your other podcast before you know to actually be
00:51:22
vulnerable it's looked at as a weakness but it's actually a strength um so but
00:51:27
it's all very well telling yourself to look at it in that perspective that to
00:51:31
actually believe it um is another story but yeah so all still working work in progress um like I said going sort of
00:51:39
every every week or two weeks um find it helpful yeah there's definitely been
00:51:47
like we've kind of got to like the real what um Stacy would refer to my psychologist as the real tumor of it all
00:51:56
now and and a lot of it is around like closed doors and um which makes sense right because obviously the the crunks
00:52:04
of the incident was around the closed door when it all happened so it's yeah it's just processing every now
00:52:11
and then I I'm finding that I'll walk past or in in the house I'll be one of
00:52:17
our doors will be closed and it'll be dark behind it and I feel I start looking at the door and looking well if
00:52:23
the door opens this way I'm exposed to it so I start to feel quite panicky and
00:52:30
and get a bit anxious around it um yeah so that's sort of what we're working through at the moment but she
00:52:38
always says that we're we're we're making progress so just take a word for
00:52:43
it yeah are you um are you proud of yourself and how far you've come in the past year yeah I am actually yeah yeah
00:52:51
um like I never would have thought I'd be in this position of openly talking
00:52:57
about like my feelings or um sort of how the incident has impacted me psychologically um so I was think of
00:53:08
probably sort of like just growing up a little bit um with it yeah yeah that's really cool it's cool
00:53:18
it's a yeah and what about your wife is she proud of you she forgiven you yeah
00:53:22
yeah yeah she's forgiv me now and we and I and I've gone like afterwards we've
00:53:27
had really good conversations since and I've apologized to her and um she's been
00:53:33
super super supportive through this whole thing and actually came with me um we went
00:53:41
back uh would have been a few weeks ago now um maybe about four four weeks ago we went we actually went back to the
00:53:48
site me and her which was um who is just just Jess and I okay um yeah so so this
00:53:57
there was probably a good good bit of exposure therapy and that was sort of once I started to her I said that was my
00:54:03
goal I wanted to I wanted to go back we I had been back so immediately after the
00:54:09
shooting um we probably a couple weeks after we actually went back to the site once it was all cleaned up and but at
00:54:16
that stage I sort of was so Blas about the impact that it was actually having on me that it was fine um so it was
00:54:25
actually quite a big since IID started getting my triggers and going back to the psychologist to
00:54:32
actually actually go back so I was finding that I was purposely avoiding the area you know like would go out we
00:54:39
my wife's 30th birthday we went out for lunch in the vict and um I remember saying to her beforehand like I'm [ __ ]
00:54:48
scared you know to like what if we um see commercial Bay um and the whole time we were there I just everyone was having
00:54:59
a few drinks and and you start kind of over over thinking like oh you know people going to have a few drinks and
00:55:06
then they're going to want to some reason walk by commercial Bay and I'm
00:55:11
like oh like what am I going to do you know like I don't want to I don't want
00:55:14
to go back there and um so it was a big step and I'm proud that um that I did go
00:55:21
back and we went and just had a coffee me and her we got a coffee and we sat on a bench um directly outside where we ran
00:55:30
into um into the construction site and we just sat there for we set a timer for 20 minutes um just sat there
00:55:38
and was vulnerable and talked to each other and talked it through and um yeah it was [ __ ] hard yeah there was a um
00:55:49
there was a a little girl we was sitting on the bench and this there wasn't much
00:55:54
of a gap between the bench and maybe like a meter and a half to the kind of a wall that went into the entrance and
00:56:00
this little girl around my daughter's age um and I remember saying Jess like oh
00:56:07
that Bloody little kid but she walked and stood directly in front of the entrance way where we were sitting and
00:56:13
looking and she's boiling her eyes out and all I could picture was Jess's here
00:56:19
with Florence and that's where I died you know and so I yeah broke down and got upset and I was like why do that
00:56:28
Bloody kid have to stand right there like I was having a good day go back to your mom like yeah but yeah just just
00:56:37
process and since I've actually been back um quite a few times and and have had no issues and um yeah God you you
00:56:45
love um you you're painting a picture of someone that loves um like like running
00:56:50
towards the fears a rather than sort of you cowering or avoiding them lot about a lot about your
00:56:57
character it's actually something that we haven't got into as well as your um
00:57:00
your physical stuff like you're you're a tough [ __ ] um you do Iron Man events
00:57:04
you do 24-hour runs Ultra marathons that sort of stuff so you love um you putting
00:57:09
yourself in in difficult scenarios and you willingly putting yourself in the pain cave so I think I think that speaks
00:57:14
a lot about you have you um were you much of a crier pre this or were you a very emotional person no like obviously
00:57:22
at at like funerals like um my granddad passed away you know you you'd get a bit
00:57:29
upset and yeah yeah the birth of your the birth of your first daughter yeah oh yeah 100% yeah um second one yeah but
00:57:38
I'd NE I'd just never talk about yeah like how I was actually feeling about
00:57:42
things you know sort of I wasn't that kind of a guy you know and yeah just sort of coming around now to and that's
00:57:51
I just really encourage other people that are storing the police to just it's
00:57:55
fine you know like the [ __ ] they're going to it's expected that's going to
00:57:59
have a toll you and there's so many things I wish that I did was more open to it in the past um but no I wasn't a
00:58:06
very I wasn't I was very much emotionally detached um previously it's lucky that you went this
00:58:14
way cuz I suppose it could have been just as easy to you know um numb yourself with you know alcohol or drugs
00:58:19
or you know something something less um productive as what counseling is and actually dealing with with the root of
00:58:26
the problem yeah yeah I'm not a massive massive drinker but it's not to say that
00:58:30
you don't go down that path right but i' I've definitely found running has been
00:58:36
um the only way at the moment to when I get the panicky feeling in my chest to get rid of it is to go for a run um
00:58:46
which last week was it was actually a really bad it was a bad week like so I had a psychologist appointment and then
00:58:53
usually I'll go for a run afterwards cuz I find that that's when it's kind of the
00:58:57
most raw the kind of panic um chest feeling that I get is right after during the during the session so I always go
00:59:06
for a run afterwards and that instantly usually gets rid of it but last week was
00:59:11
the first week that it hasn't got rid of it um and I actually panicked and kind
00:59:15
of freaked out a little bit cuz that was my was The Cure yeah it was my way to get rid of the rid of the feeling so I
00:59:22
was texting Stacy like oh can I see you tomorrow like and it lasted way longer than it usually would have so so that
00:59:31
wasn't overly Pleasant um but so I ended up going back in the next day had another session and that that that did
00:59:38
help but yeah when you realize that what you use as a tool to kind of help get rid of the feeling for whatever reason
00:59:48
doesn't work you feel like you don't really then have control over it yeah I
00:59:54
suppose it's another additional layer of like vulnerability it's like f yeah yeah
00:59:58
yeah you're like [ __ ] now it's hanging around and and like what about nightmares and stuff any of them I get
01:00:03
the odd dream yeah um but yeah it's just mainly um it's mainly flashbacks when I he
01:00:12
gunshots or loud bangs um like I went out with a few of um some mates the other weekend and we went and played
01:00:21
down in onetto down down south golf for the weekend and obviously being made that's duck shooting season and we were
01:00:28
out in the country so for the whole round there was people were duck shooting and there's
01:00:34
all these gunshots going off and oh it's the hardest round of golf I've ever
01:00:39
played cuz every every time I hear the bang it's just a vivid flashback of us
01:00:44
standing at the door getting shot um do do you talk to your mates about it that you're playing golf with or no I didn't
01:00:52
no I didn't didn't then um afterwards I've talked to one of them about it um
01:00:57
why not you just didn't want to bring the party down or it was just sort of like it wasn't anything new at that
01:01:04
point you know it was like we had been we sort of had a um had a yeah it's been ongoing for the last
01:01:13
few months that it wasn't as if I maybe would have said something I don't know
01:01:18
maybe would have said something if that was like the first time it started happening but because I was already
01:01:23
dealing with it I was like what I'm that's the normal at the moment still
01:01:28
one yeah did you yeah that's the main thing um you you have you got uh some friends that you have that sort of
01:01:36
relationship with where you can talk about stuff or did you did you not have that relationship and you have it now or
01:01:42
is that still a work on it's hard isn't it cuz you you can get to the point
01:01:45
where you're comfortable with being vulnerable but then you have to get your
01:01:47
friends up to speed as well if they're not on the same page I'm quite thankful
01:01:51
that one of my um a couple of them I've I have properly opened up about to now whereas
01:01:57
I wouldn't have before um yeah so a couple of them that I run with it was real oddly enough we were
01:02:05
out with one of them um he's a good mate and we were out running and it was I we
01:02:11
put the kids to bed and gone for a run so it was like we're running in the middle of the bush with at like 9:00
01:02:17
p.m. at night um and that was saw the first time that he said something that that kind of made me realize oh okay
01:02:26
here's an opportunity for me to talk about what I'm going through with him so
01:02:29
I fully opened up to him and that was the he was the first person this was only a few weeks ago he was the first
01:02:35
person that I've really apart from my family openly spoken about it um and since then there's been a couple others
01:02:43
that I've that I've spoken to and so obiously this is the bigger picture of
01:02:49
what's going on and um yeah so getting B at it it's cool and you're often fun
01:02:55
with your friends that's like a vulnerability exchange he so if you rip the Band-Aid off and start having some
01:03:01
real talk rather than just like lied b um it lets them know to Safe space and that's what ended up happening like he
01:03:07
also talked about some stuff and yeah it was working you know we're out out on
01:03:12
the bush running up um camp slaten out Clevon no one's around just following
01:03:16
your head torch and having a proper conversation you know which which usually yeah wouldn't have done in the
01:03:25
past yeah and and um I'm not sure if this is a discussion you and your wife have had or not but um what do you tell
01:03:32
your daughters or when do you tell them or so Florence obviously our oldest one is very switched on so she's nearly four
01:03:39
she'll be four in July and she's very switched on and she doesn't know
01:03:43
anything um obviously Frankie wasn't born at the time um I can't even remember like when I came home from
01:03:51
hospital that night Florence was at home with my parents and I I can't actually
01:03:56
remember what what we said to her but we but she definitely doesn't know what
01:04:02
what's what actually happened too young to process it anyway eh yeah and like we
01:04:06
were very cautious of when we were talking about it in front of her like would never say shooting or anything
01:04:13
like that would just say the incident um if I was talking to someone else about it
01:04:19
um yeah well it was funny enough we actually just and I talked about it saying like I would would I ever tell
01:04:25
them you know obviously now this is out there um jez hey girls yeah yeah D's on
01:04:32
YouTube yeah yeah um okay well do you want to like look look down the camera because I mean
01:04:39
the way YouTube works this this will linger around for a while so maybe this is something they can see one day I I
01:04:44
reckon I've never never met these little girls but I'd say they'd be so proud of
01:04:48
you yeah I hope yeah I hope so yeah um what you say oh put me on the spot now um I'd
01:04:58
just like to say that you know I'm grateful that I get to be around to see you guys grow up and and hope that you
01:05:06
get to see that it's all right to be vulnerable um and talk about your feelings and
01:05:14
um yeah and and I think the way that me and um their mama raising them at the moment we are very much creating
01:05:24
that safe space for them to come to us and talk to us about things so yeah to the Future girls love you oh
01:05:34
I'm getting emotional here this yeah I'm sure you were you were um a great dead before but this is like
01:05:41
just a new layer of Sam Clark right yeah really cool puts in the perspective what's important right yeah and what are
01:05:49
you what are your goals for the future um like workwise or personal or probably yeah personal I think um just being the
01:06:00
best version of yourself yeah just sort of keep keep kind of on this journey there we go dropped it twice
01:06:09
um is she giving you a discount every time you say it yeah yeah well the police are Pain still so Oh that's oh
01:06:15
that's fantastic yeah yeah so they they they cover um essentially for the rest
01:06:21
of for Jess and I um if it's in relation to the incident they'll it's covered for
01:06:27
the rest even though I've left so really grateful and thankful to to have that
01:06:32
opportunity um yeah what what sort of my sort of just keep continuing on this journey and um sort of got some like
01:06:43
Fitness events that I want to do and sort of trying to make sure I'm around for the girls more often and
01:06:50
prioritizing like now I can actually prioritize family over work um so making the most of that
01:06:59
um yeah and and I've actually and since we've started talking now I'm actually
01:07:04
enjoying telling my story and um so it'd be cool to sort of keep going down that
01:07:11
Avenue as well um yeah it's a it's a I mean it's a hell of a story and a hell
01:07:17
of a thing to go through and I think a lot of people can learn a lot uh from what you've you've been through and um I
01:07:23
think we were talking about this before the podcast um started so you're training for a 24-hour race in Ro later
01:07:29
this year and um yeah everyone gets the same amount of hours in the day regardless of who you are so you're
01:07:34
you're doing most of your running training at night yeah for the most part I wait till very much trying to fit it
01:07:40
around the family so put the kids put the girls to bed and then we'll go out
01:07:46
and run for an hour hour and a half um then get up early to go to work um yeah I got doing the Blue Lake 24-hour
01:07:54
challenge in September so it's essentially down in um roroa the Blue Lake there's a 6K trail that runs
01:08:02
around and it's essentially as many laps of it as possible in 24 hours um so I've
01:08:09
got that and then there's an event in March next year called Northburn 100 have you heard of that yeah
01:08:18
100K 100 it's a mile so it's 160 K down in Cromwell with 10,000 M of elevation
01:08:25
so it's more than Everest and elevation um so me and a buddy are that's our main
01:08:32
goal for next year is to do that but yeah we'll see if I can keep getting permission from Jess to go train it's a
01:08:40
big commitment so oh you got a good one there um but she must be um on the flip side of that
01:08:46
like she must be proud of um you know you coming closer to Reaching Your Potential like um yeah this is probably
01:08:53
an unexpected layer of Sam Clark that she didn't know she was getting when she
01:08:57
married and she's like I everyone says about their wife like she's incredible
01:09:02
she truly is you know like she's always um before we had kids and I was working
01:09:09
shift work and the police she was like the minute we have kids um like I want you to try to get a Monday to Friday CU
01:09:17
it be easier and I'm like yeah yeah sweet yeah yeah so then we have a kid and I'm like I'm going to join the armed
01:09:24
Defender Squad and and be on call every second week and get called out in the middle of the night
01:09:31
and and um add all this extra work and keep working shift work and um and she even though that's wasn't her ideal what
01:09:40
she she thought was going to happen she was always supportive and should never she never would turn around and say oh
01:09:47
no I don't don't want you to do it you know like if I'd set my mind that this
01:09:51
was what I wanted to do um cuz they have it really tough you know like when when
01:09:57
we're on call there's been times that it's 5:00 at night you're halfway
01:10:02
through cooking dinner she might have um Florence in the bath and a call out comes in and you're like
01:10:10
well like sorry but I I need to go and you literally drop everything and go and she has to pick up all the pieces and um
01:10:19
so she truly is incredible and has always been supportive with any career decision that made made yeah and I mean
01:10:27
it may not may not feel like this from um the perspective of um you the police or the AOS guys but um from a Partners
01:10:33
perspective even though it's a slim chance there's still a chance that every
01:10:36
time you leave the house you may not come back yeah 100% And that's for all the guys and girls that are in the
01:10:42
police yeah like and they like we get to do what we enjoy and it's our job but
01:10:48
they're the ones that in general get left behind at home um and they've got a
01:10:55
lot on the line you know to lose yeah yeah um is there anything that we haven't ticked off that that that that
01:11:04
you're going to be in the car after this and go [ __ ] I wish we talked about that
01:11:07
or I wish I took that off um anything anything left unsa no I think that's that's for the I
01:11:14
wouldn't mind talking about the work that I'm doing oh yeah yeah you're a
01:11:19
consultant now yeah so still working so still got a full-time job at the moment but I've started up a a sort of like an
01:11:26
emergency management consultancy business so there's a lot of work and sort of I talk through my experience in
01:11:36
particular around being involved in the shooting and and an active armed Defender situation
01:11:43
and essentially created some training packages that get provided now to um like your retail facilities and retail
01:11:52
stores cuz there's a lot that they can do and have a responsibility that they
01:11:58
can prepare themsel for worst case you know like we look at Sydney um the Bondi Junction active arm Defender you know at
01:12:08
the Westfield um they I know that that Westfield has had this particular training through
01:12:15
another company and so they were as prepared as possible there's a lot that we can do for our retail centers and
01:12:24
crowded places in general um so yes I've sort of started up a consultancy business to try and upskill management
01:12:33
of facilities on how to take command and control of the incident um and how to then transition over to police because
01:12:40
there's a lot that they can do and a lot of decisions that they can make that can
01:12:46
save lives and prevent more people being injured so there's that aspect of it and
01:12:52
then we part of it also dives into actual employees on the floor you know educating them and giving them Awareness
01:13:00
on what to expect and what's our natural um our natural reaction when something
01:13:06
unfolds um just sort of upskilling them and and it's interesting now that I've
01:13:10
kind of researched more into it it's there's a a look at it now and a lot of
01:13:18
the things that we say people are going to do in situations when they react when
01:13:24
I reflect back on on our active arm defender inulin in July there was all of that stuff was there you know like we
01:13:31
had they talk about the the natural human responses of fight flight freeze and these days they talk about filming
01:13:40
so people will because of our we've got our phones they just freeze and will
01:13:44
film you know so we had when we arrived at the incident we had um probably about
01:13:52
40 school kids not too far away from the construction site that were filming us getting out of the car let alone there's
01:13:58
gunshots clearly being heard in a construction site and their reaction wasn't to leave the area but to pull out
01:14:04
their phone and and film um so it's just sort of preparing them around what decisions they can make
01:14:12
to essentially save their lives their customers lives and um yeah it's funny
01:14:18
we even had when we were up on level 18 and the rounds were sort of going off 10 met behind us was a construction
01:14:27
worker filming so he's right in the midst of it and his reaction wasn't to
01:14:33
run but [ __ ] I better pull out my phone and video this it's got to be good for
01:14:38
Tik Tok followers oh yeah but like you're like man if that was me I'd be even if I was down where
01:14:45
the school kids were like a little bit away man I would be gone like especially my family was there you know
01:14:52
um yeah so it's just sort kind of presented a good opportunity to try and give back from my own experience to try
01:15:00
and upskill and train others on how to manage the incident and yeah sort of pass on my experience to them in that
01:15:09
way I love that oh for any uh yeah business owners or um you know retail chains that potentially listening to
01:15:16
this that think they could utilize your services what's the best way to track
01:15:19
you down um so I've just launched our our website so it's um response rise.com
01:15:26
um we're on Instagram and yeah just reach out even if you just want to catch up for a
01:15:33
coffee and talk through what if if if it will work for you guys or if not um but
01:15:40
yeah I really try and use talk through my experience with it and um actually run through scenarios with them so we'll
01:15:48
put someone walking around their shopping center and actually see if they can track them on CCTV and
01:15:55
um if what Pas are they doing and actually practice a free run run through before the hopefully fingers cross it
01:16:02
doesn't happen but unfortunately one day when it does happen yeah brilliant well
01:16:09
Sam Clark thank you very much for your service and thanks for now um sharing uh your unfortunate experiences which um
01:16:16
ultimately I think have made you and will continue to make you a better person no thank you cheers for giving me
01:16:22
the opportunity to openly talk about it and hopefully it encourages um even just
01:16:29
one of the guys or girls that are still in the police to go talk to someone and it's it's normal and it's fine and um
01:16:37
yeah it's a real strength to be able to do it so appreciate it great place to end it
01:16:42
yeah thank you cheers oh