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[Music] Kiwis love a first like Finn. We're making [Music] [Applause] waves. Generate switch online
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[Music] today. Theo Shakes, welcome to my podcast. Thank you for having me. This
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is exciting, man. It's exciting for me. By the way, can I just say I've done uh
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220 podcasts and I think you've got the coolest name out of any one of I love
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it. It's just like a a it's a celebrity name. It's like you were born with the
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celebrity name. It's kind of buzzy. Yeah. My voice teacher at drama school was like bro that name
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mana. That's what he'd do. Yeah. Yeah. For real. He was pretty obsessed with it
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too. What sort of nicknames did you have growing up or at school? Oh, it's true.
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Yeah. I had the fee. That's what like a lot of my fam calls me and I think that's it. Like the sometimes in
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football training I'd get uh Shakesy Sharksy. Shakes. Yeah. Uh there was a Scottish teacher. He was pretty come on
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Shakesy. Yeah. But how old were you when um the Metro Station song um Shake It came out? Oh my gosh. My family were
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obsessed. They literally said, "This is our song." Every time it came on the
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radio, hey, they're like this is our song. God, that would have been like 2009 or something, right? So I was uh
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eight, right? Right. So too young to sort of appreciate it all. Yeah. Yeah. Shake, shake, shake, shake, shake it.
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Imagine that playing when you walk into a room, at least in your own head. So Theo Shakes, massive, massive Tik Tok
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celebrity. Uh 200 million likes. You But by the way, how how active how how um into it are you like keeping up with?
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Only way I know that is cuz mom told me. She's like, "I think yesterday was the
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day." Yeah. She was like, "You hit 2 million, 200 million." I was like, "Oh,
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true. Yes, I did." Okay. I'm not I know another creator who knows it down to the
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He's like, "You're third in the country right now." I'm like, "Okay, okay,
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true." So, um I don't know. I I do like watch everything back. I feel like
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you've keep keep an eye on what's working and what's not, but um I also
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try not to be too obsessed because, you know, then you'll just be about numbers,
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you know. Yeah. And I suppose after a while you can get comfortable enough that you
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don't have to like obsess about it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It comes in peaks and troughs this whole game. So
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it's like, you know, you'll have a good day, you'll have a bad day if you've
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been doing it for 3 years, but just consistency is the idea and you might get lucky. So at the time we're
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recording this, you're sitting on 1.9 million Tik Tok followers. During this
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interview, we could take over. Um, will your if that happens, will your phone start like buzzing? No, no, no. I turned
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that stuff off. Imagine that. Like if you had Tik Tok notifications cuz there's every like, right? It would just
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bing bing bing bing bing bing bing. Oh yeah. So if you're number who's number
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one and two? I don't know who number two is, but I think according to Louis Davis, he's the one that was telling me
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that he's number one at 240 mil likes or something. Okay. I've had him on the
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podcast. He was great. Yeah. You had Yeah. Yeah. His content is very different to you. I I do like that about
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Tik Tok that number one, two, and three. It's all very You're not all doing the
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same sort of No, absolutely not. And Louis like cross disciplined. He I mean he kind of does family content, some
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rugby content. Uh uh the Marty side of him. Yeah. There's heaps to it for him.
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Even he's trying to get into the running game at the moment. Him and dad. Yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah. For real. He's kind of expressed that like I'll just kind of do
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anything and he's tried he really wants to mimic my stuff. He's like bro I just
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really want to do that. It just doesn't work. I was like yeah. So for for on on
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I mean I've got there's such a broad and diverse range of people that listen to
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this podcast or watch this podcast. So for anyone that's not familiar with Theo
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Shakes, how would you describe your content? Ah, great question. Um, I'd describe my content as a peep and a look
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into humanity um through impressions and situational comedy and more recently um
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movie cliches and the characters we know and love that we didn't realize we knew
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and loved. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm looking forward to unpacking that. I I reckon I
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spent 5 hours yesterday watching um Theo Shake clips. Yeah. Like I've seen so
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much of your content and it's it's genius. It's cliches that are are there,
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but you you're not actually ripping off a specific movie and they're all you
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feel like you've seen it all in movies before. It's very clever. It's genius.
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So, and you've got a standup comedy show coming up too. Um May 13 to 17 in Oakland. It's your debut. um comedy solo
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show, like a 1-hour show. That's right. Judging by the look of things. It's my
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first hour and it's probably like my 15th time doing standup. I'm very fresh
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to it. But I was encouraged to do it. And I think that's the power and creativity and artistry if you can be
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the author of your work. Um the sooner the better before too many cooks get in the pot. So, it's allowing me to really
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hear my voice um and see what things I want to talk about. And it's going to be
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a a bunch of fun as well. It's going to be quite live and I mean, of course,
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it's live. It's a it's a show, but it's going to be visceral in that um things
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may go wrong um on purpose though as well. I'm always quite calculated. But I
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think this is the lesson as well. Me diving into an hour is going to be like, can I even do something like this? Let's
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see. Let's see. So, what have you done so far in terms of standup comedy? Um
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so, I've kind of been gigging around Oakland quietly, not saying anything about it as well. Um, and so I've done
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Poppies, which is out in South Oakland. Shout out Ha Dawson. Um, I've been doing
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some rooftop gigs. Um, and there's been some amazing comedians kind of helping
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guide me through, um, the space like Joe Damon. Uh, Eai dom, he's brilliant. Um,
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and so kind of getting help from them and then stuff at the classic as well. So, uh, anything from like 8 to 12
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minutes has been the most I've done. Yeah. And then I'm just like always
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jamming it with friends and family and stuff. So, why stand up comedy? So, you you you um went to Toy Fati, so you're a
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trained actor. Um and now you're doing like a like a basically acting on on TikTok. So, why why uh why standup
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comedy? Why not one or the other? Calm down, J. I got um honestly, why not is kind of
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the question. When you're in the arts, you've got to you cannot be a one-trick
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pony in New Zealand. So the idea is how can you get amongst it and get stuck in and have a go and then if you know
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you're you're not too bad at it, start studying up on it and and seeing what
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you can do. But the biggest thing I learned after leaving drama school at the end of 2023 was how do you get onto
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a stage? H okay well there'll be can I can swear on here, right? There'll be
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yeah there'll be [ __ ] all auditions coming through. That's just the reality.
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I thought it would be like there's [ __ ] all jobs, there's [ __ ] all auditions. So
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then it's like, okay, how can you get on stage? Stand up. That's actually the
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fastest way to get on stage to be in front of an audience and to exchange something and test your writing. And
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that's the other thing, too. Uh, you know, I I love writing. So, um, it's
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just another chance to play with words and put them up in the space. Oh, so reading between the lines in a way, it's
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just you you looking for opportunities to keep busy. Exactly. Get your 10,000 hours in. Keep life. And then I do kind
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of understand the long game as well and how uh these different um disciplines can cross paths and intersect and I'd
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love that to happen um in in a way that I could put multiple things in one show or I could um turn that into a series
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online like this is all part of that bigger plan. I suppose cuz your big plan I I don't know if this is um still the
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case um but a previous podcast guest Fraser Groot who um is doing Fraser has been like of course so um friend of
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yours as well. Yes. And he's doing a project called 10,000 Dreams where he's
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just going around and capturing people's dreams. Um you've done one with him and
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you said your dream was to win an Oscar. It was. Yeah. Still is. Or No, it's not.
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It's not anymore. Why is that? Uh because I just think the whole uh what was that? Anora, they spent $18 million
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getting it the visibility it needed to get Oscars. So just just the whole thing about Oscars has changed for me in in
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that it's just one aspect of this industry. Um it's inspiring the speech
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and what it does for a young actor. still do get very juiced up when I go back and watch Viola Davis say hers or
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something. But at the same time, I'm if anything that Hollywood stuff it's just it's too I get a bit the
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closer you get to like those Hollywood m like when you work on a big set or you meet a big celebrity I actually feel a
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little and I just want to know the human side and those things get in the way. That statue gets in the way. Um, so but
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Fras has infected my mind with dreams and he's made me think um beautifully about them and and I constantly ask
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people the same question he'll ask because I think it's just a great way to
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get to know people and even if it is the Oscar, you can kind of keep going from there and be like, "Okay, what why?"
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Yeah. Yeah. Cuz the Oscar thing is funny. You look at say Tom Cruz never won an Oscar in his life. Um but you can
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you you can't meet anyone that does not know who Tom Cruz is. One of the most
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successful actors of our generation. Definitely. Um, oh yeah. So, what are some of the big movies or or big people
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that you've worked with? Drop some names. Yeah, sure. Uh, Elijah Wood was incredible. I got to work with him in a
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feature film last year called Bookworm. And that was really extraordinary. Like he was just a lovely guy. I remember
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like spotting him on set and there he was. I was like, "Oh, the guy." And he's
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like, "Hey, man. How are you?" I was like, "Oh, yeah. I'm good, thanks.
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Awesome." And then uh disappeared and I'm like, "Okay, go. All right. We're
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gonna have to do this. this is my first ever scene in a film and I'm facing opposite him and then it was so
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interesting to see how he worked like yeah I think we'll do a two shot like he
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wasn't directing the film and he wasn't the DP but he understood exactly how
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from like a bird's eyee point of view how a scene is made and it it is through
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doing rings it is through like doing incredibly big budget films where like once you scale it down he understands
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the essentials and he's kind of even telling people no no we've already gone
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over the shoulder we've crossed the line so we're fine can go back, do that. And
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then acting opposite him was brilliant. And seeing what he'd do just before a
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take and just after. Just those moments are really interesting as well as being in the scene. And then at the end of the
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day, I got to really ask him some questions about what it's like to do this career. And he's like, "Yeah, man.
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I've I've been doing this since I was seven, you know, and it's it's weird,
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but you know, it's my life." And uh you know, fame's a it's a funny thing. just
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most important thing don't be an [ __ ] and I was like okay yeah and I've met
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some [ __ ] I was like so being around him was like a good okay that's if anything that's where you want to end up
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in terms of the mindset and the behavior as as an actor as someone who is fortunate enough to have that much
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responsibility um be a good person and it sounds obvious and easy but I think if Hollywood can infect you or you So
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yeah, we were just talking about a rapper before. You know, the a lot can happen to you and you just you could
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lose yourself. So I'm very I'm very like I've got a lot of grounding there. And
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Anna Scotney is another incredible actor. She's a a brilliant Kiwi actress and like she's taught me a lot about um
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what it means to stay true to who you are and hold yourself and don't worry,
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bro. You're all good, bro. I was like, okay, thank you. Yeah, I am. I I I um
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yeah, just something from that Elijah Wood story is just how um observant you are when it comes to people. Um it's
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actually making me [ __ ] self-conscious right now. No, no, no, don't no. Please, no, no, no. I mean,
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it's it's obvious like it comes through in the stuff that you do on TikTok. Um
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but you're obviously just a deep observer of people, but also the way you flip into accents as well. By the way, c
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can I just say just an observation from my part, your um accent is way more English than what I expected. You moved
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to New Zealand from I will get into your back story later, but you moved here when you were four. That's correct. From
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Sheffield. Yeah. Brilliant research. Yes. Um so you've been Is this just from
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being So Jamaican dad, English mom, correct? Um so I'm They moved here as adults. So I'm guessing their accents
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are still quite thick. They are very thick. There's nothing Kiwi about them in their voice. But all your all your
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school education was here. So you'd think you would um sort of chameleon it and make yourself as Kiwi as possible in
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order to fit in. I rejected a lot of like the bros, the ch the G. I just especially like in terms of writing when
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I'd make short films, I'm like, "Oh, it just sounds like corny cuz I want it to
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be Americanified." And then when I got to high school or later on in high school, I I started to embrace that a
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little more and understand that the lingo is actually dope. It's real cool. Um but so yeah, maybe I I just that was
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always kind of a cool thing to be like I wasn't born here, by the way. Like growing up, it was kind of cool to flex
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that. And then now it's the other way. I'm like very proud to be part of this
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that I went back to England and realized oh I'm a complete foreigner there um
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that is a small percentage of my life I can't speak to much of it so this is
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home but yeah no I didn't what I why I am good at accents is because I've been
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able to absorb so many different kinds of sounds growing up and the kinds of people I'd hang out with were very
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diverse so I was just exposed to that I think that um potentially says a lot about your self-esteem or
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self-confidence that you didn't feel the need to try and blend in. Yeah. No, I
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didn't. Not not from um that's a flex to say you're from the UK as a kid. I don't
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know about now. You ruined the country or whatever, but like as a kid it was it was f cuz people would just be like I
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mean if you're 8 years old and I was four when I came that's half your life.
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They'd be like, "Wait, you lived in a whole another place? Oh my god, Theo
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wasn't even from here." Um, and they're just trying to imagine. I remember being
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four and mom and dad were like pointing to the map. They said, "We're going to
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go there." I don't even know what there was, but they said it's always going to
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be sunny there compared to the UK. It's not Look at We're in a little rain
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warning s right now. It's not the case. Um, yeah, but the the thing I mean, race
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is where you That's where the self-conscious took. Yeah, that got Oh, just looking completely different.
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That's where I got up my points, my low self-esteem points, you know. Um, yeah.
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How was that? Did you experience much in the the way of racism or It wasn't It
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wasn't too I I have to say I've I've had it lucky. I think it's just feeling like
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an outsider. Um, I think the kind of era I grew up in at school was pretty good.
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We also moved to New Zealand knowing it was more diverse in the schooling system
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in that um, you have the Polynesian demographic and just we're a very diverse kind of country. So you'll get a
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mix of da da d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d um whereas in the UK it's
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like if you're black there's certain in the class system there this there's
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clear pockets um and so it was it was pretty good but I the neighborhood I grew up in and the I guess some some of
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the schools I went to I was just the only black I was the only black guy. There was like one or two other
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Nigerians. Um shout out Simon and shout out Ammani. Those were the only other two and that was Ammani. Ammani and
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someone called Theo Shakes in the same class. That's badass. Ammani was awesome. He always used to say this
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thing. Um, he actually used to sing the Lion King theme. I don't know if he was
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trying to just be a complete walking stereotype, but he used to go. He used to do that for us, bro. And
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then the other thing he always used to say was, "Guys, I know what to do." And
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that was and he just knew what to do. That's that was the money, man. Amazing.
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So, why did you end up in New Zealand? Why did your parents move? How many kids in the Shakes family? Just me and my
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sister. Okay. Your sister older, younger? She's older. Okay. Yeah. So, you're 4 years old. Do you remember much
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about the first four years? No. I've got a couple memories. One is like Oh, well,
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it's always blurred because we My dad filmed a lot of our childhood. So, when
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you watch those, you're not sure what you really remember versus. So, now it's
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very bled. Um I was trying to bake a cake with my sister and I kept wanting to lick the SP. who gets to lick the
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spoon. That memory I'm like, do I remember it or and just balling my eye? But I It's the videos, man. You're
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boiling your eyes. Yeah. Yeah. So, clearly you didn't get to lick this. I didn't get to lick the spoon. And then
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once I got it, I shut up and and my sister, it's not fair. But she was angry. So,
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um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't remember too much. I don't Why Why did
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they move here? Why' they move here? That's such a long way to move away from
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your family. It's such a long way to move. My dad always describes it in this
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beautiful way. This is the deep way first. Start deep is that um growing up in London, he's grew up in
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London. The depth of field is so [ __ ] It's gray on gray on gray on gray with a
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bit of brick and then gray and gray and gray with some brick and gray. And when we first traveled to Alteor in 2002 for
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a holiday, he just came out to Tamaki Drive and looked across the water and was like, "Wow, look at the color and
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the depth and how far you can see." And thought, "We want to live here." And
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they wanted to just shake up their lives and and get out of that kind of monotonous, however you say that word,
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um life in the UK and see some color, see some sunshine. um and try something new. I think they're just daring people
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at that time. They were just really daring. Um and then as well my mom had work here which was great. There was a
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shortage so we ticked all the boxes residency wise so we could come in and then it was an opportunity for us the
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schooling system. They weren't so keen on how we'd fit into that there and they
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like the idea of coming here and trying it here. But it's crazy. Yeah, it's
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crazy. What was their line of work? Uh so dad works in the industry as a advertising uh and communications and
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he's just one of those like you know verbs you can't quite put them in one
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place he just does things and then mom is a psychologist so they're still short
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on those but um yeah clinical psychologist yeah wow what's that like having a clinical psychologist mom
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everyone thinks she's reading my mind and stuff and that's where I get it from
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it's no she doesn't she's never worked with kids as well so that was the big
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thing as well That was different. I will say every now and then I'll be like,
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"Mom, stop talking to me like a a like sometimes there'll be a little more
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clarity and I'm like just get to the get to the point. Get to the point." Um, but
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no, I it's it's yeah, she looks at niche things like dialysis, kidney dialysis is
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what she helps people with and the feelings you get from that and the fears and the needles and anxieties. So that's
00:19:10
so far removed from you know something like depression as a like it's not as
00:19:15
simple as that or anxiety. I mean she understands those things but yeah so I wonder if that job
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seeping into her parenting had a had a part in making you more a better communicator or a better you know how
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that teenage boys there's a tendency to just like have one word answers two word
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answers say as little as possible especially to your parents. Yes. Wonder if her job like had a role in making you
00:19:37
more I think definitely on the basis of caution always more caution and then you
00:19:43
know growing up it's like oh relax relax relax and the second I started flatting
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I realized how like cautious I was to everyone else's like don't never leave
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the food out overnight you know you you know my my friend does that and he'll
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take it to work the next time you have to put it in the fridge bro you have to it'll be contaminated and the lid needs
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to go so all that. But dad's a really great communicator and conversator that
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um I've picked up that pace and that ability to kind of slip and slide through convos. Yeah.
00:20:18
When you told them uh after leaving school that you were going to go to drama drama school and spend three years
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getting a degree uh to become an actor. Yeah. Initial reaction. Well, I first got to film school. So, you kind of got
00:20:30
to start there, which is even, you know, I mean, in my opinion, like film school
00:20:36
is what pathway after film school. I couldn't see it and that was the problem
00:20:41
and it was only a year course, but during that course I had to pitch a short film and I acted out my pitch and
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then I remembered that hit I got from high school performing and I was like, whoa, I haven't done this in a while. I
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need to do it again. So then I thought about toy ficati and auditioned there and my parents were just completely on
00:21:00
board. They've always been supportive of that. They believe in me, which is a
00:21:03
powerful thing for parents to do because it makes you believe in yourself. And um
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and yeah, they were completely on board and they're excited because they understand how committed and passionate
00:21:13
and excited I get about it. And I was always that kid. Go away, present something. Go away, present something.
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So all I was going to do is go to drama school and present something which will be exciting. Yeah. Toy to Toy Ficardi.
00:21:25
Amazing drama school. It's been going since like 1971 or something. Um I had a
00:21:30
look online. So you're you're the um graduation class of 20 2023. Yeah. And I
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counted I think like 20 people in your in your year. So that's a lot of people
00:21:40
out there looking for work. Yeah. And a very very and getting narrower all the time industry. It's terrifying. Yeah, it
00:21:46
is. Absolutely. It is. And I think not what I do know is not everyone goes on to be an actor. Um, some because maybe
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they can't. Uh, some because they don't want to. And some have just another
00:21:59
interest. They're like or you know cross-d discipline. So it kind of like 5% might be acting. I'll take the
00:22:05
audition if it comes on me or the advert or whatever. But a lot of people are interested in music. A lot of people are
00:22:11
interested in um uh copapa maldi. I've got a mate who's who ended up just
00:22:17
studying some more. Um uh but yeah, I I you know I I've always been about okay,
00:22:23
if we were told make work, then that's what I'm going to do if if I'm not
00:22:27
getting enough. And I've been fortunate to get a lot. But even so, I'm someone
00:22:30
that wants a lot. And uh wasn't getting as much as I thought I would. So wanted
00:22:36
to create work, which is why I've written a play. And I don't know where
00:22:39
this when this airs, but it's on next week uh at Basement Theater. And part of
00:22:43
that was like get people I know to get work. And so my mate Callum who was in my class were doing it together as well.
00:22:50
So trying to generate work for each other, for myself. Um and then yeah, I think it's all about our class was a
00:22:58
great class. So we we inspire each other and so that's the goal hopefully as
00:23:02
well. People switch back on cuz it's easy to fall out. It's not an easy profession. So it's easy to go um I
00:23:09
don't I don't know anymore. And the longer you're away from it, the scarier
00:23:12
it gets to come back. So that's why doing standup's important cuz it just
00:23:16
means the the muscles are sharp. Yeah. You're constantly like sharp sharpening
00:23:20
that pencil, sharpening that knife. Um Yes. Standup comedy and plays. They they pay [ __ ] all, right? Not doing them. How
00:23:28
do you Yeah, it must be terrifying. Like I'm I've just set up this business
00:23:32
recently and I've just been doing the podcast for three years, but before that
00:23:35
I got to like middle age just having like a a standard safe job my entire life. So I'm just freelancing now and
00:23:41
it's [ __ ] terrifying. Yeah, it's terrifying, but this is all you know really. Yeah. How do you make your
00:23:46
money? Through social media. Okay. Through that advertising and um integration of of brands in an advert.
00:23:54
And I think um the powerful thing is uh you know you're the as I was saying before the author of the work. So when
00:24:02
brands come to you, you have a lot more control as well. And um that's given me
00:24:06
the ability to to invest in other things like a play and do the side quests that
00:24:12
I need to do um as far as sharpening tools and stuff um and reaching deeper in collaboration. Um but yeah, it's been
00:24:23
incredible. I've been very fortunate and I've had some awesome brand opportunities. I've worked with some
00:24:27
crazy brands. You get sent things you don't need and you're like, "How can I
00:24:32
give this to someone else as well?" Um, yeah, it's been very strange. It's been
00:24:37
a strange life as well. So surreal. Yes. So the the Yeah. How how does that work?
00:24:42
Because I I watched so much of your TikTok yesterday, by the way. Um during this interview, you'll probably click
00:24:47
over to 2 million followers, which is it's just baffling. It's it's a
00:24:51
unfathomable fathomable number. But most of your content, like I couldn't see any sort of
00:24:57
branding in there. You're not wearing t-shirts that say New World or anything like that. So,
00:25:03
where does the paid content come into? Yeah, absolutely. So, uh let's give an
00:25:07
example of a brand. Xbox is great because I work with them a lot. Um they well, you get your um advertising agency
00:25:15
in the middle who communicates, but um the client uh Xbox, they've reached out.
00:25:20
They want to do stuff with the creators. So, they probably put out a call to 15 creators with the budget they've got.
00:25:25
That gets divided up. And then I get a piece of the pie and they come to me and they go, "Can you generate some ideas?"
00:25:31
And I really love to go hard. So, I create a whole pitch deck. I put it in their color scheme. I like to make sure
00:25:36
they're getting exactly what they need. And when you start doing that, you realize you're actually being the
00:25:40
creative. Uh you're being the creative as well. Um and so, uh you gift them with two pictures, sometimes three. They
00:25:50
select two if it's two. And uh it goes out on both um platforms. If you've got
00:25:55
Instagram or maybe Facebook, three. And for me, it's about integration. So, if I
00:26:00
was to do the um the manager character at a tech store, uh like a no leming without saying no leming. Um and I put
00:26:10
on an accent. I've got the lanyard. Then I'll be like, "Yeah, and over here we've
00:26:14
got the Xbox here. It's a brand new Xbox. You can get that now." And it
00:26:17
comes with these DVDs because that's what they need to sell. And uh when you
00:26:21
play them, you actually get 30% off. So, are you trying to buy that today, guys?
00:26:24
And I'll do the American accent because most of the time these clients are Americanbased. So that's also why maybe
00:26:29
they're not as recognizable too because it's not like my food bag or New World.
00:26:33
It's more um something else. I mean like international brands. Yeah, international brands which I mean you
00:26:39
know there's versions of I've done MLS that was a cool one. So some don't end
00:26:43
up on my platform. They can end up on their channels. Um so the Major League Football that was really cool just cuz
00:26:50
I'm a football fan. And then um what else? There's the streaming networks
00:26:54
Tube Max Disney Plus. they they love doing that. But I will say I think things have changed in the last 3 years
00:27:01
even or sorry in the last 2 years and uh these agencies or these brands are starting to build their own profiles and
00:27:08
they're getting closer to the point where they might want to just do it themselves. Um so then what is in it for
00:27:13
them to go to the creator? Is it influence? Uh following doesn't always equate to that now. We kind of know that
00:27:19
in the way the algorithm works, people are drawn to your videos based on virality or the feed or the for you page
00:27:26
or the real. Um, so to create a cult following um is like quite a that's a deep level and uh I've also shied away
00:27:36
from that too because I've not so that's also why I don't go hey guys I got sent
00:27:41
this today. You know I if people want to send me stuff they can but I'm not I've
00:27:45
always been like I'm not going to do that. If anything, I'll try and wear it
00:27:48
in my videos and incorporate it because I it goes back to principles I learned from drama school like craft and
00:27:54
storytelling. How can you make like all of it um part of this thing you're trying to do rather than selling out? I
00:28:01
suppose. Um although I say that with a grain of salt. I understand. Oh no, mate. I'm super inspired. Like uh you
00:28:08
you're working at a completely different level, aren't you? I'll I'll get sent a
00:28:12
six-ack of some shitty ginger beer that I don't even want to drink and I'll be
00:28:14
like, "Fuck, they've gone to the trouble of sending to me. I'll take a photo, put
00:28:17
on my story, and tag them in." But I I also in my position, and I'm a bit
00:28:22
younger, so maybe I fall to a bit more pressure of feeling self-conscious. But I don't want to be seen as the guy
00:28:29
that's just getting it all for free and like, well, you know, that's not fair.
00:28:32
And um I it just doesn't feel fair. Maybe I I understand it. I understand why it comes to you, but I'm also like,
00:28:40
oh man, I don't know. Yeah, I feel a bit And that's where the tall poppy can get
00:28:45
you as well. So, I've figured out how to navigate not get I literally don't get
00:28:49
tall poppy yet. Yet yet. Oh, mate. It's New Zealand. You You just wait. Yeah.
00:28:55
Yeah. Exactly. It's like um Yeah. Yeah. You What you Yeah. What What do you Because the American accents and the
00:29:01
stuff like that. What do you What do you know of tall poppy? It's definitely just
00:29:04
a like a Kiwi thing. Hey, Kiwi Australian thing. Although the more I delve into it with my mates and and talk
00:29:09
about it and then you look at it online, the Brits feel it too in their own way.
00:29:14
They just didn't have that. We we rep that term really hard. But I think different country the only country that
00:29:19
really wouldn't fear face it is like America cuz they're so confident in
00:29:23
themselves and that's they uplift but they're more blunt but they uplift. But
00:29:28
yeah, I look it's a big problem in New Zealand cuz it's more hyperfocused.
00:29:32
We're a smaller nation and you can really see someone pop up and it's it's
00:29:38
pretty bad in the music industry I've heard here and rugby and people face it
00:29:42
there. So, um and then the arts I think I've found we're a little more supportive but maybe if you don't know
00:29:49
they're talking [ __ ] about you. So, yeah. It's it's a strange phenomenon.
00:29:54
Hey, like you build people I suppose like America maybe have it has it to a degree like I'm thinking like Tiger
00:29:59
Woods like everyone roots for Tiger Woods and then as soon as there's some sort of scandal or whatever people just
00:30:04
want to drag them down. I've heard in America it's called um similar sort of
00:30:09
phenomenon called um crabs in a bucket. If you see crabs in a bucket they when one crawls up and is about to get out
00:30:14
the others will grab the the leg and pull them back down. Yeah. Similar sort of thing. It's so icky though. M I I do
00:30:20
feel I wonder in America though they're a bit more like if the crab's in the
00:30:23
bucket they'll go and they'll take it down and they'll go and they'll actually
00:30:27
also grab the bucket whereas Kiwis some like the kind of thing we do is like h get down but they're not a player
00:30:36
they're just watching from the outside and that's like really sad. It's like
00:30:40
you're meant to be the audience and maybe or you're meant to be the fan the
00:30:43
supporter you don't even have to be in the career path and you're wanting to do
00:30:47
that. I feel like Americans are more like it's my turn and then they go and do it. I don't know though. Yeah. So
00:30:52
it's it's it's not something that you spend too much time thinking about. No.
00:30:55
No. You can't let it hold you back, can you? No, you can't let it hold you back.
00:30:59
I would imagine it would get to me, but I'd find ways to navigate that, I guess, or avoid it
00:31:06
or something. Yeah. I mentioned you were coming in and um I got so many Tik Tok related questions, so maybe we just um
00:31:13
focus in on this for a bit and then we'll go back to the Theos story. Um, can you remember what your very
00:31:18
first Tik Tok was? Uh, it depends. The app was Musically at one time. So, musically. Yeah. It was called something
00:31:26
else. Yeah, it was called something else in 2016. And I didn't know that when I
00:31:30
redownloaded or the app just I don't know, disappeared. And then when you download Tik Tok, you had all your
00:31:36
musically content from 2016. So, I guess my first was like me going like in like some sped up thing. what I
00:31:46
April 18, 2016. Yeah, you were so young. So young in it. Um cringe. Were you era?
00:31:54
Were you Were you too young for Vine or did you remember Vine? I never had the thing, but like Yeah, I do remember Vine
00:31:59
and YouTube. I've just binge YouTube compil compilations of Vine. You would have been a Vine legend. Yeah, Vine
00:32:06
could have been pretty cool for me. Yeah, but at that time in my life being that young, I loved long form and 6
00:32:13
seconds felt as a maker, I was like, how would you do something in 6 seconds? I did think that when I used to watch
00:32:19
them. I'm like, how could But a lot of the Vine content was often like accidental or goof, you know?
00:32:26
I mean, it's hard to tell a story and you can do it. You can do it. Well, I believe that's how I might have the
00:32:32
song, but I believe that's how Shawn Mendes was discovered, which seems baffling to me cuz it's like a a one
00:32:36
line of a song, right? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I didn't know that. Um, yeah. So, going
00:32:40
back through your Tik Toks, uh, 2019, uh, you had 300,000 views on a 21 Pilots Tik Tok. Yeah. Was that the first sort
00:32:48
of first sort of bit of success you had? Uh, yeah, that that and maybe this other
00:32:55
one where I haded a little door in my underneath the stairs and it was like Harry Potter kind of door and Shrek's
00:33:01
face was on it mixed with Harry Potter like deep fake Harry Potter and Shrek. That was Yeah, that Yeah. And I guess
00:33:08
like six years ago. So you're what 17? Yeah. Right. And when I got to film school, people a couple people went,
00:33:13
"Hey, I recognize you, but I'm not sure where." And then a week later, ah, it
00:33:16
was a video you did like when I was in high school. I'm like, "Shit, really?"
00:33:19
Okay. But no, I was just I was I was making stuff for fun, though. I was making like sometimes through school.
00:33:26
But having that like taste of um like virality, if that's what you want to call it, um at at that age and that at
00:33:32
that stage early on, like was Yeah. How did that feel? It was just more like whoa what like
00:33:40
this is insane that that many people like it grows so fast. I guess that was pretty and then you want to I remember
00:33:47
like liking every single comment just cuz I felt like I had to connection with the fans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then
00:33:54
someone started commenting why does he like everything and I'd like that one
00:33:57
too. I was pretty obsessed with liking it. Yeah. It's bad for your dopamine.
00:34:03
Yeah. Absolutely. Then, uh, September 2021, um, there was one you did that got 1.5 million views. Um, it's like a a
00:34:11
builder turns up to the house and mom and must be after school, kids home, mom and dad aren't home, so the kid answers
00:34:17
the door and has an interaction with the builder. Um, that was brilliant. Yeah. Yeah, that that's really Was that your
00:34:22
first like big one or have I got the time? No, that's about right. I mean, there was probably one or two couple
00:34:28
before that where it was manager impressions and I was a movie theater manager, the main manager who comes in
00:34:35
and uh does all the buttons and then you know has passive aggression to the person working the till. Um and but that
00:34:44
was during a lockdown and I was like sweet I'll just do it again cuz I got nothing else to do tomorrow. So yeah and
00:34:51
um yeah from all the way back uh it's never been like a Kiwi accent. Was that
00:34:55
a deliberate thing? Uh the Yeah, I wanted to act and I I thought acting can be accent. I've always liked feeling a
00:35:05
little further away from myself when I act in terms of that. Now I'm a little
00:35:08
more I bring it more in. But um yeah and then I thought it's just more ways of
00:35:14
sharpening the technique and then you realize you can reach further people if you go to the UK and then if you change
00:35:20
to American accent you can reach even more Americans and then you start working with American brands and it just
00:35:25
it opens up more in that way but you you know you don't want to throw away this
00:35:31
beautiful place and everything you know about this place. So innately all the ideas and the um concepts were lived
00:35:37
experiences from New Zealand. So the Kiwis could understand the content but it was kind of strategic from early on.
00:35:42
Yeah. Yeah. It was. Yeah. Cuz cuz Yeah. You you probably know Tom Sainsbury and Chris Park. They've done phenomenal
00:35:48
stuff. But their stuff outside of New Zealand. I don't know how far it translates. Like it just captures the
00:35:54
essence of being a New Zealander like perfectly. Same sort of thing as what you do to a degree. Um but just very New
00:35:59
Zealand whereas yours is um sort of international. But they've nailed that Kiwi humor or maybe that's weak to say,
00:36:07
but they've nailed that and so they're so in touch with people here and the
00:36:11
50-year-old moms who love their content and stuff. It's but the Thomas Aby big
00:36:16
inspiration cuz he did all the 48 hour films when I was doing them as a kid and they were the team that was always in
00:36:22
our heat and they just it was like damn you guys you're so good cuz we were under the same name alphabetically and
00:36:28
it was like oh you just everyone loved their film and they so it was Yeah, I loved it. Yeah. And then you got to work
00:36:34
with him on the New Zealand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and I've occasionally
00:36:38
been on like um panels with him and he's just he's he's one of the sharpest
00:36:43
people I've even in that air New Zealand like it was a behind the scenes thing. I
00:36:46
was just like wow you're a player like you you've got offer after offer after
00:36:50
offer this is really strong and that felt really nice as an actor to receive that and then throw it back. Yeah, it
00:36:55
was cool. But but if you're bouncing around like ideas or doing some blue sky
00:36:59
thinking or whatever you want to call it and you have an idea but you think it might be a little bit niche New
00:37:04
Zealandy, do you cast it aside or do you think about you know what I mean? I don't know. Uh like you know I can't
00:37:12
think of an example, but I just think every everything could just you just put an accent on it. It's likely on God. On
00:37:18
God like what what is it here? What is it that the traffic the Oakland traffic's the cliche? LA's got crazy
00:37:25
traffic. Um, what kind of stores do we have in the world that they What What's
00:37:29
like a Kiwi store? Um, what's a Kiwi store that it's uniquely Kiwi? The warehouse, right? The warehouse. There's
00:37:37
a version of that in the States. I can't remember what it's called. Like Walmart
00:37:41
or something. Yeah, I guess you could go Walmart. Exactly. And then you just you
00:37:45
you'd either replace the word with Walmart and we'd all know it's warehouse
00:37:49
at Kiwis or um yeah you just call it a shop you know store and it works. It works that way. It does. Yeah. But I've
00:37:59
done one or two like during um to wiki or week I'll just like chuck in something. So I did a wire to last year
00:38:06
because of all the stuff I learned at toy and that was they were like oh what bro I didn't realize you knew that. How
00:38:11
do you know that song? I kind of thought it's just fun. Yeah, it's an interesting
00:38:16
strategy. And then there's like Taikoiti who's managed to sort of like inject
00:38:21
sort of Kiwi humor into into America. That's right. Which is a like a a like a
00:38:25
barrier that's just phenomenally difficult to break. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Um Yeah. Someone
00:38:31
wants to know. Yeah. But how's your temperature? I can turn the air. Oh, no.
00:38:34
I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Um Yeah, you're from the UK.
00:38:38
This is You love the first four years, man. Oh, they were freezing out the womb. You UK
00:38:45
summers are amazing. E, they're phenomenal. You go there in winter, it's
00:38:49
bleak. Hey, you're on the tube in the dark. You're on the tube home in the
00:38:51
dark. It's awful. Um, someone wants to know the moment you realized you were on
00:38:55
to something. Oh, wow. That's a great question. Was it was there a moment like
00:39:00
was it Yeah. Like was it was it back at when Oh, I tell you when. Yeah. It was the the first
00:39:07
um in year six we had a you know when you go to drama when you go to school camp there's a talent quest night. It
00:39:15
was like I aced that. It was really good show. So year six so you're how old? Uh
00:39:21
like 11 12. Yeah. 11 10 11 10 or 11. Wow. And uh yeah just had a great character. something happened and then
00:39:29
in the next the next year I went to another school and did a another school camp and won that talent quest as well
00:39:38
the talent show and I had a character called Jokeman Joe who had a big stomach and he just pulled out jokes one by one
00:39:46
plastic bags and the thing is that was dedication cuz then I must have brought all those plastic bags to that camp to
00:39:52
prepare like I I don't know I don't know and then and then went to the high
00:39:57
school and did another camp and won that talent. I thought it's like take me to
00:40:01
any school camp and I will win the talent quest apparently cuz most well at least when I was at school like at those
00:40:07
um you know you have the camps with the talent quest and it's like you get put
00:40:10
in [ __ ] groups or whatever and you have to come up with something. It seems like you were like planning these things
00:40:14
you while everyone was getting excited about the school camp for the flying fox or whatever you were planning your your
00:40:20
stickick. It seemed like that. something like that. But it was the first time I kind of had a stage and could do
00:40:26
something because you know when you're in primary school you don't quite have
00:40:30
that. There's the school assembly you get to do once a year that just made me
00:40:33
[ __ ] breaks. So I don't know. And then um I don't know school that last Town
00:40:39
Quest night feels like you've had a couple drinks and you and you've used
00:40:41
down. What school did you go to? Um first time you got recognized in the wild by a fan.
00:40:49
Uh yeah, that was um in a mackers on um just off Cuba Street, Courtney, just off Courtney Place actually. Um I was
00:41:01
sat there eating dinner and then a guy came on and knocked on the glass and then I looked and he was
00:41:08
like and then I and he was trying to signal and I was like come in and then we just shared dinner together and
00:41:13
talked about life and what I was up to at that point and then he took a photo and then I asked him send that photo
00:41:20
because it would be cool to get the first ever photo our fans asked for. Amazing. How long ago was that? When was
00:41:24
that? That was 2022 just you know September maybe. Wow. Yeah. A month or two after the content
00:41:32
was blowing up. That must have been gratifying then. And is it annoying now? Not annoying. Not
00:41:40
annoying. I've come to appreciate a little more, but um there's been moments
00:41:43
where it'll happen in more, you know, more frequently and that gets a little over.
00:41:50
I'm want someone that prefers a little bit quiet, less I'm always scared of
00:41:54
having too much of an ego. So that's where the tall poppy might get me. Don't
00:41:58
be too up yourself at any point or too proud about what you do. So, um the photos are just Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:06
Sure. Hey. Yeah. You're always polite about it, you know. Um but yeah, what was your question again? It was the
00:42:14
moment. Um yeah, the first time we got recognized in the wild by a fan, then you had the McDonald's story and I'm
00:42:17
like, I see something. I said, does it annoy you now? It must happen more and more frequent. Yeah. No, I was thinking
00:42:22
about the question before, the one around how did you know or or something? A moment you realize you're on to
00:42:26
something. get on to something. I I this is just kind of uh off that in that when
00:42:33
I've gone to concerts, that's like the biggest place you'll get recognized or
00:42:37
festival is the biggest because there's mass amounts of people your age all a
00:42:41
little bit drunk and tipsy and um there was a concert I saw Rex Orange County and uh I kind of got swarmed a little
00:42:50
there and then as especially on the way out I was swarmed and I was like actually quite surprised by that. I'm
00:42:56
like, "Oh, damn." Um, but during the show, I'm watching it and I just have
00:43:01
this feeling to myself, which is like, I'm not meant to be here anymore. I'm
00:43:06
meant to be on the other side. Not that I'm Rex Orange County. I'm I'm going to
00:43:09
be selling out concerts, but I'm not meant to be in this space. This feels, but I also don't want to be in the VIP
00:43:15
area. That's not me. That's not me. I want to be like everybody. I want to be
00:43:18
here enjoying that. But both on the recognization recogni whatever point of view. Um I'm not meant to be there. But
00:43:27
then also on the artistry like I'm thinking about how he's crafting a show
00:43:31
and staging it and how he's communicating with these people because that's the role I've got now. How do I
00:43:37
communicate with audiences? And so I think about it that far ahead. So that that's also a point where I know I'm on
00:43:44
to something because I'm not meant to be the Yeah. Are you Yeah. How are you at um
00:43:52
respecting you know your personal boundaries and stuff like that? Like will you just say yes to everybody or
00:43:57
will you politely decline? I've said no along the way. You felt bad afterwards.
00:44:01
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Felt really bad. But it's never been too bad.
00:44:07
I've tried to that's one of the questions I asked Elijah and he was like
00:44:10
you'll know you'll know when you're with your family you'll know um something
00:44:15
like that but I think for the most part I can see the nervousness in a kid and I've sometimes seen them go like that
00:44:21
I'm like oh my god they're shaking up just it's chill it's chill like let's
00:44:25
you know I don't want it's just I'm I'm not that interesting yeah cuz for um I
00:44:30
mean at like an environment like a like a festival or a concert where people have have you taken some gear or they've
00:44:36
been drinking It's a different sort of environment, but if someone comes up to
00:44:38
you like a McDonald's or whatever, it's probably taken them a lot of courage.
00:44:40
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um do you know Kesha Castle Hughes at all? Yeah. So I I was on um I was on holiday with her and
00:44:48
some friends once and a girl at Newwood was like, "Oh my god, Kesha," the girl
00:44:52
that was serving us. She was like, "Can I have a photo with you?" Kha had like a
00:44:54
mini argument with her like, "Hey, look, I don't come up to you outside of work
00:44:57
and ask for a photo." And at the time it took for Kish to explain why she didn't
00:45:01
want a photo. I was like, right? Yeah. But it must I suppose if you're at that sort of level, it must
00:45:07
get annoying. Yeah, definitely. I've heard Israeli talk about this like he's
00:45:10
he's really good with his boundaries now. Yeah. I've Yeah, I've heard about
00:45:15
that especially in the club or something. It's just you take one, you'll get swarmed. So, don't take one.
00:45:20
Just drop the line there. But I think the fear is of saying no is that you'll
00:45:28
you think you're up yourself or something. Yeah. They think you're a dick. Yeah. Which is it's it's terrible.
00:45:33
It's like even if even if you have a photo and you're you're you're polite
00:45:36
but aloof, they'll be like, "Oh, that guy's no you got a photo, but yeah, it
00:45:40
wasn't very friendly. He thinks he's [ __ ] Leonardo DiCaprio." Say, "No,
00:45:43
he's not Leonardo DiCaprio." So, unless you go extra mile with them, like it's a
00:45:47
lose-lose situation in a way. Um, someone wants to know um about celebrity um DMs or comments or celebrity
00:45:55
followers. Yeah. Okay. Um hm Coco golf that was kind of cool. She left a comment. Tennis player, tennis legend.
00:46:02
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um what was the comment? I can't remember. I can't remember. It was you liked it, but then
00:46:08
you like all the comments. Um who else? Trisha Pis was saying a lot of stuff. Who's that? Trisha Pis. She's
00:46:17
like a massive social media star, but she's just done a Broadway show. It's
00:46:21
quite funny. So I guess there's a lot of like my girlfriend will be like, "No
00:46:24
way. Oh my god, this person. Um, Will Smith followed me. That was kind of insane. Yeah. Uh, what was the catalyst?
00:46:32
I did a like a um a riff on like kind of Bad Boys without saying it. And then he
00:46:37
said, "I'mma pretend I didn't see this as a joke." And then uh Yeah. And I was like, "Damn, Will
00:46:44
Smith." Okay, relax. and he's only following like 45 people and he's got
00:46:51
what 70 80 million followers. So that feels a bit weird that he's watching the
00:46:56
content potentially. Amazing. Yeah. Is that pre-lap or post slap? Post slap. Okay. Not as cool. The reputation was so
00:47:08
Yeah. Yeah. What do you Yeah. What do you think about him now? He's still a legend, eh? Yeah. Still Will Smith. He
00:47:13
is. I that's something I actually in drama school did this thing called verbatim verbatim theater which is
00:47:21
taking um doing an interview and doing it word for word I'm um a for a and I
00:47:26
looked at what it would look like to do verbatim with videos and uh famous moments in history and I just tested it
00:47:33
on the slap. I put it inside uh a kind of a theater with the rest of the school watching so they could kind of watch
00:47:40
360. And I just that I watched that clip honestly like a thousand times just to understand it culturally. I was like
00:47:48
what's going on that as well why I feel a way about the Oscars. I'm like it's
00:47:52
too far removed. There's something about but yeah. So I did a whole Chris Rock
00:47:57
impression and my mate came up and slapped me on the face. But um is uh how does he go? Uh uh Chris Rock has this
00:48:07
great laughy. That was a good one. Okay. Uh oh, Russia. Wow. Well, just sm the [ __ ]
00:48:17
out of me. Okay. Okay. Yeah. G2. Can't wait to see. Yeah, he's got that little laugh. I
00:48:27
was looking at that very nicely. and Lupita Naango in the back like just just all everyone's moment and what it would
00:48:36
look like to see it from here from there how it's televi I just want to understand it it's so weird still is
00:48:42
weird and Jada you know I like what is it I don't know it is it's I remember
00:48:48
watching it live and I thought it was um like some planned sort of sketch in the
00:48:52
beginning and then it becomes apparent it's not like when Will's yelling out
00:48:55
like keep your wife's name out of your mouth or it's Crazy. Oh, that's really
00:49:00
good. I do like um Chris Rock though, his special and that joke he said about like I watch Emancipation just to see
00:49:08
that [ __ ] get whipped again. I was like that's that's not bad. That's not bad,
00:49:12
Chris. That's that's kind of crazy, right? He did have a lot of time to prepare his comeback. I thought he he
00:49:18
handled the slap like a boss, though. I had a lot of He did. That was incredible. That was
00:49:24
Yeah, it's because there's embarrassment or shame that would hit you very quickly
00:49:27
there in that moment. M and there'd be that moment where you think I I should
00:49:32
that you know I'm I'm humiliated now. I need to like um hit him back or do
00:49:37
something else or say something like did we all just see that but he kept it kind
00:49:41
of it's like he he was tapped into his standup realm where he stayed in job with dignity and I yeah it's been
00:49:50
interesting to see how other comedians talk about how other people support the Smith side on it and just how it kind of
00:49:56
almost did divide the internet too a slap and assault live on TV still divided the internet yeah and and then
00:50:03
Will Smith just like sitting back down and collecting the awards. No one no one reacting. I noticed in this whole this
00:50:10
whole part of the conversation like you've um you've done Chris Rock, but
00:50:13
you've been avoiding Will Smith. Are you scared he's going to come and slap you?
00:50:18
I ain't going to I ain't going to get into that. He's He knows where to find
00:50:21
me. He's can DM me. Hey, I saw what you said. Yeah, I see it. You know, um do
00:50:28
you remember your very first brand deal? Oh, yeah, I do. Uh, it was some housing
00:50:34
thing. Some real estate thing. Very random. I was trying to sell real estate in in the UK or a real estate app. Yeah.
00:50:44
Amazing. A UK one. Yeah. A UK. Yeah. My first brand deal was a UK thing. Uh, what is your planning and scheduling
00:50:50
process? Yeah. Your your body works huge. E like scrolling through it yesterday like every two to three days.
00:50:56
Yeah. Yeah. Every two days. So, because I'm doing a play at the moment, I've got
00:50:59
them all stacked as well. So, um, they're in the drafts. There's about five or six of them in the drafts
00:51:05
right now. Um, so if I'm busy, I can post stuff. And yeah, I've just got
00:51:11
reminders. That's where I write my content out in my reminders cuz it reminds me. Yeah. Yeah. So, do you Yeah,
00:51:19
you must be incredibly disciplined. So, do you have like a writing day per week?
00:51:23
No. No. No. No. You just have an idea and you write in the notes on your phone. Yeah. And try to keep that
00:51:27
organic as possible. the older I've gotten and the the busier I've gotten,
00:51:32
maybe there's at the moment like a day of the week I need to shoot them on. And
00:51:35
that's also because I like having a camera person and a bit of movement in the shot. Now, it's like bringing all
00:51:40
the things I've learned from film school into play and making a cinematic little
00:51:44
masterpiece in in a organic native platform where it has to look a little wanky. It does and so so do so does the
00:51:52
creation process. It can't be full streamlined. Um, otherwise then it would also feel like I'm doing it full-time,
00:52:00
which I don't want to feel like I'm doing content full-time. I don't know.
00:52:04
Yeah, you you do really well because you sort of get immersed in each little uh TikTok like it's its own little movie.
00:52:10
Um Yeah. Yeah. It's really clever how how you do it. Like you do Yeah. You get
00:52:16
Who who's in it? So, it's is most of it in your house in your flat mates or
00:52:19
Yeah, it was in my flat most of it. So, that's been really cool. I've got like a
00:52:24
lifetime of memories to look at the flats I've been in that's and the places
00:52:28
I've filmed and just go, "Wow." Cuz I'm very nostalgic about spaces I've lived
00:52:33
in and treat them as, you know, a playground to create. Every inch of the flat I was in, it just had been used.
00:52:45
Yeah, it really had besides the other rooms. So, it's a drama flat. They're
00:52:51
all like other Oh, no. Um, the one I was in more recently is not. It's um, it's my high school mate and another
00:53:00
person who works in IT. Um, and then before that it was at drama school. Yeah. Drama mates. Do your flat mates
00:53:06
now not get annoyed with you? No, no, no, no. Cuz I I'm so I'm also quite
00:53:10
self-conscious about how I make it. I don't want to take up space. So, I've
00:53:13
always been like, look, I'm going to try and shoot stuff, but hey, you guys want
00:53:16
the space. You want the space. It's fine. And then there'll be other moments
00:53:19
where I might go, okay, this is my job. you're allowed to have permission and
00:53:22
you know say you need quiet or something but people are pretty chill. Yeah. How much work goes into filming each clip?
00:53:30
And they say in brackets um you know what's a fast clip? What's an average
00:53:33
clip? What's a long clip? Okay. Uh a fast clip could be what? One or two takes? Oh, sorry. Are you talking about
00:53:40
the length of the clip when you say fast? Yeah. How much? No. How much work goes into filming each clip? Okay. Uh
00:53:44
yeah. So if I'm lucky No, not if I'm lucky. If it just feels right, uh, then
00:53:51
it's like one or two takes. For the most part, I'm doing probably 30 takes for a
00:53:57
Tik Tok. And if it's a really bad day and I'm getting very specific and niche
00:54:01
about it, it's 40. Yeah. And maybe not full takes, but like start again. We're just not quite
00:54:10
hitting that. I do treat it like quite I take it quite seriously. And when I'm
00:54:15
with certain people, I'll dumb myself down actually to pretend that like I don't take it seriously because you you
00:54:22
don't want to look over the top about a Tik Tok. But I really love, you know,
00:54:29
where possible symmetry and then broken symmetry. Um I like the amount of sound design I can put into a Tik Tok and the
00:54:37
music as well, being very specific about the styles of music I'm picking. Um, and
00:54:42
then the costumes, if I'm bringing other people in, what they're wearing, how we
00:54:46
can execute their accents, if they're not good at accents, and if they are good at accents, how can we specify it?
00:54:51
Um, and then the the writing and the play and just, you know, being natural as well. All the things I've learned
00:54:58
from doing drama school and getting gigs is just, you know, relaxing in your performance. You don't have to
00:55:05
overperform. So, do you bend many ideas? you have a good idea and then you're
00:55:10
like h too hard basket like in terms of sourcing the costumes and the props. No,
00:55:14
no, I tend not to. Yeah, most of the things I shoot will I will post. There's Yeah, I will
00:55:21
post most of them. And not all the ideas I write I'll make because they're just
00:55:26
too I need six people to make it for one idea and I'm like, "Oh, that's a lot."
00:55:31
And someone driving the car and then driving another car and then two of us in the car. It's like, "Oh, damn.
00:55:37
There's too many people to ask. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, really? Extras. Yeah. I feel a little like I know there's young
00:55:46
people that have reached out and asked if they want to be a part of it and some I actually have brought on and people
00:55:52
who said, "I'd love to shoot one." I was like, "Yeah, come shoot one then and you
00:55:56
be the camera guy." And uh that's been really cool. Or a composer said, "I'd
00:56:00
love to compose some." So now we've been collaborating on some of them which is
00:56:04
really cool. And he's based in the States. Oh my god, that's amazing. Yeah.
00:56:08
Yeah, because that's another thing which if you're just doom scrolling through
00:56:12
Tik Tok, you may not even think about this, but yeah, the sound effects and the music and everything that goes in
00:56:16
the background. A lot of thought. Yeah. You mentioned Louis Davis before, New Zealand's number one Tik Tocker. So, uh
00:56:21
when I had him on, he explained to me his um his most uh viral Tik Tok of him and his daughter opening a ka. Yeah.
00:56:28
Right. Of course. Um, and he explained how uh I'm going to get I'm going to get
00:56:32
this wrong cuz I'm not a I don't know anything about film stuff, but I think
00:56:35
he was was like shot on 4K or something, but then he did something to the color grading to make it look more phonish.
00:56:42
Yeah. Do you do how much work goes into your post-production? I now because of the world of the skits and the joke, the
00:56:48
fact that they're movie cliches, I'll color grade them a little, partly for my
00:56:51
own pleasure, but also to fit the kind of world it's in. Like if it's a buddy
00:56:56
copper thing, it's always oversaturated, bright LA colors. And if it's a um
00:57:01
action film like Mission Impossible, it's darker grays, warmer. Um so yeah, I
00:57:07
I like doing that. I like going there, but I don't shoot in 4K actually just
00:57:11
cuz of storage. I think I never hit the 4K thing. And I'm like, it's all right
00:57:14
as long as I'm using the best kind of phone and always wiping the lens before
00:57:17
and you know. Yeah. Wow. Um how much work goes into the business side of being a Tik Tok star? I feel like you
00:57:24
almost touched upon this before where you talked about coming up with three props for the brand. It's quite a lot,
00:57:28
isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I suppose. Yeah. You you asked of a lot, but it's also,
00:57:32
hey, we're not working in a mine all day. It's It's all good. It's all good.
00:57:36
Not digging trenches. Not digging trenches. You have to say that otherwise people will be like, hey, he's got to be
00:57:41
Exactly. That's when they Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also true. I'm like I
00:57:46
This is the my rule, okay? You show up to work and you do it and you work hard at it and then when you're done, you're
00:57:52
done. like it, you know, if it only took an hour. It only took an hour. But you better work damn hard in that hour and
00:57:58
and give as much as you can to it and then if someone asks for notes and you could have to do a revision, you give
00:58:04
them the best they can get because I actually don't want to fail the brand. I
00:58:07
really want it to work beyond um making I really the money's like one thing or
00:58:12
whatever. It's actually about like can this work? Can it actually connect? Could it could it actually do that? Are
00:58:17
they going to get their money's worth actually? Like I like thinking about those things. and how at the end of the
00:58:23
day you could look back and be like that's actually a funny video. It's pretty cool. You're really disciplined.
00:58:28
Eh. Yeah. I mean it's you like it's a tough Kha Castle Hughes. I wonder what
00:58:34
she thought when she was first doing that um whale rider like she was so young she was so young. No,
00:58:41
absolutely. But she but man I just Yeah. She I saw her in a thing say a little girl from GI who just you know ended up
00:58:50
in Hollywood or something like that and GI is like local for me too and I just thought but her performance is brilliant
00:58:58
and it's very considered and I think she did people do know what they're doing.
00:59:03
they do know what they're doing and in order to make great performances on screen, something like that um takes a
00:59:10
lot and um yeah, when you're a maker, if it's just going back to that, if so, you
00:59:15
can be the actor who gets roles and you actor who creates them as well, you've
00:59:19
got to be a bit disciplined because then you'll just talk talk talk the talk and
00:59:23
never walk the walk. And I always if I I don't want to be that guy to say I'm
00:59:27
going to do this and don't. I really want to do it. If I say I do it, so I'm
00:59:30
careful with what I say, too. Yeah. But that but that example of like Kisha in the the rail whale rider so she was 11
00:59:36
12 years old whatever at the time and um so for her it was probably an opportunity to get three months out. I
00:59:40
don't know what the back of school. Yeah. But but you're you're like a
00:59:43
you're a dude in your early 20s. Be very easy for you to sleep in or you skip a
00:59:48
day if you couldn't be [ __ ] or you had a big weekend or whatever. But it seems
00:59:51
like you're um you're very very structured about the whole thing. I get way too much guilt if I was sleeping in.
00:59:57
Where does that come from? cuz I'm I'm afforded the luxury to have my own
01:00:01
timeline. That's the thing. Self-employed, have your own hours. Do it when you want. Self-employed, every
01:00:06
hour is your work. So, it's kind of like that's the toss up. But, it's uh it's
01:00:11
great cuz you can stop. If dad wants to call and just talk life, you can stop. And he's the same. And he'll just stop
01:00:18
and talk and we'll just catch up about things and watch a Jacob Collier video.
01:00:23
This morning I was explaining to you and just, you know, and now I'm I'm
01:00:26
absorbing something. I'm absorbing the arts and music and ways of doing things.
01:00:30
But, you know, I can do that. I don't I didn't have to get up and rush to work
01:00:34
and join that time frame. I didn't have to. So, that's that's like don't don't
01:00:40
slack off too hard, mate. You know, it's like you've got extra hours in the day.
01:00:45
That's so you can work on the standup, work on the play, make these opportunities for yourself, and then
01:00:51
eventually they start coming in. You don't have to generate all of them. Yeah. Yeah, once you get that momentum
01:00:58
um in New Zealand. Yeah. Really? You really do. You really do have to work hard hard, don't you? Yeah. Um someone
01:01:05
wants to know, do you ever post and delete clips that aren't getting traction? What What do you mean
01:01:10
like fathom the question? Um you ever post and delete uh clips that aren't getting traction? So, you post something
01:01:16
after an hour it's only got 50 likes? Oh. Uh and then remove it. No. Um, there's
01:01:25
probably been one or two I've done that and that is actually because the algorithms failed like it like it's got
01:01:30
50 50 views in the first hour would actually be a fault and that has happened and then you just have to re
01:01:36
repost it. That can happen. But no, I'll try and keep it up because I've also
01:01:39
found um they stay h sorry they can do better or they didn't hit the second life. Yeah, they can have a second life
01:01:46
for real. Yeah. And then also it's so if I'm proud of it it's before I hit post
01:01:51
it's like I'm proud of it. D. And if it's a clip that doesn't do well, but
01:01:55
it's got great acting, some casting agent might see it and go, "That was
01:02:00
really cool." Because they don't care about numbers. They're like, "How does
01:02:02
this app work?" But they got this video and they're like, "Oh, wow. That's
01:02:06
that's what I'm proud of and that's what I want the world to see if anything." So
01:02:10
only 10 people have to see that. But I never thought of it that way. So So for you in a way, Tik Tok Tik Tok's like a
01:02:15
LinkedIn page. LinkedIn. It is. Yeah. I mean, these are the conversations I've
01:02:19
been having with um casting and uh acting coaches and people in the industry. It's like this is the chance
01:02:26
for the for us actors to put your work out there and to start to um temperature and cater to the things you want. If you
01:02:35
want to if you want to be in dramas, start posting content that's dramatic. If you want to be in comedies, post
01:02:42
comedies. Uh, I've always wanted to be in a Mission Impossible type film. So,
01:02:46
I'm going to kind of make those at the moment cuz I really want to walk down a
01:02:49
street and then slip into an alleyway and put on a suit and then throw it in the bin at the same time. I want to do
01:02:55
that one day. Just that action though. You do heaps of that, eh? Or I really love that traveling stuff, walking
01:03:00
stuff. It's just Yeah. How many How many tuxedo? There's been a lot of tuxedo
01:03:04
stuff recently. James Bond at a party. How many taxes do you have? Just one. Just the one. And the neck is dirty ass.
01:03:11
The neck is is just brown. It's so brown. It's disgusting. Uh most new followers in a single day. I don't
01:03:22
know. I could definitely say like 30k. Damn. But I don't know. Yeah, it's after
01:03:27
a big video. Yeah. Um do you work alone or do you bounce ideas off other creators? Uh work alone. I like to
01:03:35
concentrate because I I I actually think about it this way. people people DM me all the time saying um how about you do
01:03:43
this and I used to reply them sometimes I don't I just can't keep up with it now
01:03:48
but I'll look at I'll go you do it it will work if you it will work the way
01:03:54
social media is designed now is it could just hit that algorithm and and that's a
01:03:59
great idea I don't need like I could do it but and also if I did it they'd be
01:04:03
like I want the credit and like you wouldn't about me you wouldn't do it and
01:04:07
it's like I think it was your idea then you could just do it. You try and do it
01:04:10
and maybe they'll go I'm not one like I just a lot a lot who do message are like
01:04:15
actors or they're like people with small pages who are a little inspired and it's
01:04:18
like I think you can do it. Um I don't know what's stopping you but no just in
01:04:23
Tik Tok in particular I think the turnover and the speed at which it happens it doesn't need to be uh and the
01:04:28
way I'm doing it it's not so much about conversation but if I'm doing it in the
01:04:32
room with people like and they're acting with it I love their ideas. I love their
01:04:35
take. I said, "Where do you want to be in the world? What kind of accent are
01:04:38
you?" Um, I've asked some actors like, "Are there any roles you're interested
01:04:41
in?" And I'll write an idea based on that. Um, it's amazing. Like there's so jeez there this there's
01:04:50
like from a a followers perspective, like there's so much BTS that you'd
01:04:54
never think about, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, have you ever got in trouble for taking the piss out of people?
01:05:00
Apart from Will Smith. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have. Have you? Yeah. Have you you want me to go into what's it's never I
01:05:08
watched so many of your clips you it's never really specific is it? Yeah, I just once just just near the beginning I
01:05:15
was doing stuff around um you know a kid a kid just playing a kid character and then um uh some of the diverse
01:05:25
neurodeiverse community came out and said like what well one person was just like you're mocking autistic people like
01:05:32
I'm just playing a kid and then I fought back and answered back and then I realized ah I shouldn't have done that I
01:05:37
should have just left it alone and then I just got caught up in a little threat But so small. That was kind of it. That
01:05:43
was kind of it. Yeah. I don't think I've No, I don't think I've I try to keep I
01:05:49
try I understand punching up and punching down and I understand um not going for people who,
01:05:57
you know, can't defend themselves as well. So, I listened to a podcast with um Amy Schumer and she talked about why
01:06:05
she doesn't do roasts anymore and she was like, "Yeah, there's punching up and
01:06:08
punching down." But she goes, "I just don't want to." She goes, "I'm at a
01:06:10
stage in life where I just don't want to punch anyone." Right. Right. Goes, "I
01:06:13
don't want to punch Justin Bieber just because I can." Oh, that's kind of fun.
01:06:18
Um, everyone has feelings, I guess. But yeah, do you do you read the comments or
01:06:21
do you take comments to heart? You You can't keep up with all of them, obviously. Yeah. No, no, I don't read
01:06:26
comments as such. The only reason why I read them now is just cuz I want to know
01:06:30
what clicks, like just uh what's clicking for them. Like, oh, they did notice that little thing I hid in the
01:06:35
back. Oh, yeah. Oh, cool. and just see what the top kind of response is because that does point me on the path for the
01:06:41
next one. But no, I I don't really indulge like deeply into them, you know. And they're all pretty good. Is there a
01:06:48
lot of sort of little Easter eggy things in your sometimes? Yeah, I'll do some
01:06:52
little things like that and see if anyone notices or just the ways in which they're made or the music I'm putting in
01:06:58
the back. It's very Right. That must be so annoying when people don't notice it
01:07:02
because yeah, you're going all these layers. Um, how do you handle negativity
01:07:08
or hate online? Yeah. So, like I said, I've been really lucky to dodged that bullet. So, I just
01:07:16
I haven't really experienced it much um if at all. Uh I'm trying to think of I'm
01:07:22
trying to think of an example where it would have happened and that neurodyiverse is an example. But,
01:07:28
um I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. But how I would handle it is just not add
01:07:34
just not actually leave it alone. And that's what I would encourage others to do. If unless your content is
01:07:41
strictly about talking about the politics of it all, I'd say you're just
01:07:45
going to dig a deeper hole. Just keep to your craft, keep to what you do, and people will love it, people will hate
01:07:50
it. But be a bit cautious that you're not saying awful things in what you're
01:07:54
doing. You know, some people might have a valid reason for uh calling you out, but man, I just try and stay away from
01:08:01
that stuff. And I'm glad I have cuz I'm like, what? There's some people that
01:08:05
just Yeah. want want some drama, and I don't want the drama. I don't want the
01:08:09
drama. Um that's great advice, by the way. That's really cool. Seems like you
01:08:13
you Yeah. you've got a healthy relationship with um Yeah. with that sort of stuff. Uh what's been the
01:08:19
biggest personal challenge since going viral? Um It's a good question, I suppose. Yeah, just things around
01:08:33
probably fame and just being cautious of that. Um, once you've got it. In what
01:08:39
way? Just just ending up um losing privacy or something or people talking about things that are just nothing to do
01:08:48
with them. So that's why I'll keep a lot of things private anyway. Um, and keep
01:08:53
it narrative based. Doesn't have it's not you don't need to know everything
01:08:56
about my life. Um, and yeah, just ending up in rooms I don't want to be in or
01:09:01
worlds I don't want to be in and then never being able to get out of them. Um,
01:09:05
because in the pursuit of this craft, you're going to be taken to heights you
01:09:08
can't imagine. And just being ask questioning myself like is that where I want to go? And I do have the answers
01:09:15
now along the way. I just more um am cautious of it all the time. So that's been maybe the trickiest thing actually.
01:09:22
But it's not that what sort of room you don't want to be in like a like a diddy
01:09:25
freakoff. Yeah. Exactly. No. Exactly. Exactly. After watching Baby Reindeer, uh when he went to Edinburgh and ended
01:09:33
up taking that tab and then got raped. I just thought, oh, as a young person in this in that sense, like someone who's
01:09:40
early 20s, you know, you could end up in a room and be really inspired by someone
01:09:44
you love and then the night go completely south without you even noticing because it's all so much. It
01:09:49
could, you know, this industry can just show you another space that you're like,
01:09:53
whoa, I didn't know that was. And then, wo, I didn't know. Whoa, hang on. And
01:09:58
then my questions have always been, so is that really what this is all about? But I'm glad that that's not the case
01:10:04
and people have reminded me, no, there's good people out there and I have found
01:10:06
good people and I don't believe that too. And you attract that energy the more you
01:10:11
um live it or not cautious of it. You can attract it. Yeah, you have to be so cautious. It's a lot to think about.
01:10:18
Yeah, it I I um yeah, I heard uh Izzy on a I think it was on Joe Rogan's podcast
01:10:23
and he talked about having a fight in Miami and then uh he didn't realize until afterwards, but um Diddy or
01:10:27
Diddy's people had been trying to reach out to him. Um and he was like he's like
01:10:32
in hindsight it's a good thing I missed that DM. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You
01:10:37
don't know how the night's going to um All right. Hey, thanks for being so open
01:10:42
about all the TikTok stuff. It's fascinating fascinating insight into a world that very few of us know too much
01:10:46
about. Um we talked a bit at the beginning about um yeah the early years and your backtory and stuff. So yeah two
01:10:52
November 2001 born in Sheffield. Uh English Jamaican heritage. Um what's your link or connection to your roots?
01:11:00
Um have you been to Jamaica? I haven't. No, I'd love to go. So was your dad born
01:11:05
in the UK or born He was born in London in the UK. Um Bethyl Green to be specific. And uh yeah, our my
01:11:14
grandparents came via the Wind Rush generation. um in the 50s60s and yeah that I quite
01:11:22
removed from that because of there we go England and then we ended up here. Um but there's a bit of a Caribbean society
01:11:29
here and there's black creatives art which we're working on the play together
01:11:33
at the moment. So you can be in touch in that sense but to find like mixed kids who are also Jamaican
01:11:40
and British is going to be like slim to none. So you you kind of just adopt um other I loved Indian people growing up.
01:11:49
They were my peeps. So like all my friends are Indian like from primary school to high school and then I got a
01:11:54
Ukrainian mate. Uh just a bunch of things that it's a mix but then I also understand the white world cuz it's half
01:12:01
of me. Yeah. Yeah. And so much of your like formative years have been in Ez. Um how would your parents describe you as a
01:12:08
kid? uh creative uh charming probably maybe a little bit of an attention seeker probably like
01:12:19
dancing around the room. Um you're doomed doomed from the beginning. But they also mom told the story of like a
01:12:25
person who came to visit the house and recognized there was a talent in me and said he's
01:12:33
potentially going to kind of do these the arts or something and they were right, I guess. Yeah. Were you ever into
01:12:38
sports or did you just Yeah, I did. I mainly did sport growing up. Not so much the art or I always did the arts in the
01:12:45
weekend. So that would be like YouTube or you making skits or building things. That was the creativity, make believe.
01:12:53
But um yeah, it was cricket and football and cricket. Okay, so here we go. Because cricket um me and my mates, we
01:13:00
just mess around. We created a game within a game. So it would be how many ways can you taunt the other team with
01:13:07
the clever rhymes like those send those whale um send those wicket oh wickets win cricket um a hat-tick you know
01:13:17
catch win matches send those bales off to Wales um yeah we just come up with stuff like that and little signals like
01:13:25
that meant spin and just play our own games and then when we are going to bat and you're starting to play hard ball
01:13:32
cricket you know it can be like 6 hour days or whatever. And so only two need a bat and then maybe the next one or two
01:13:40
person has to stay around if they get out. And so the rest of us if as long as we were in the running order together,
01:13:45
we'd [ __ ] off and wherever you played there was always a bush around and we'd
01:13:50
go to the bush and be like um doing Bear Grills impressions and like pretending to survive in the bush and then someone
01:13:57
would go, "You're on next Theo, get back." And you'd run back and play
01:14:00
cricket. Oh yeah, I saw one of your Tik Toks yesterday. Beer Grills. Um, yeah. What was it? If Beer Grills was a like a
01:14:06
black dude and black dude in I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was
01:14:11
brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was so good. What was the most trouble you got in as a young fellow? You get in
01:14:15
much trouble. Were you Sneaky question. That's good. Uh, I really I Okay, how do I talk about this?
01:14:25
I'm aware of me and my life and the image and of who I am and how I present that. I never felt like there's a
01:14:34
certain point where I'm very aware of the consequences if I [ __ ] up. So, I'm
01:14:37
not going to do that in my to all my ability. But there were some times, of course, like very cheeky and try and
01:14:43
play it where no one will notice. Um, and you got away with things. Yeah, I think I got away with things, but never
01:14:50
too bad. I was always raised pretty well to understand like right and wrong and this and that. Um, I got an after school
01:14:56
detention once that was pretty cheeky. I stuck my hand up a vending machine at Potaai Hot Wheels. Was it a successful
01:15:03
mission? Well, we we were all Yeah, we all got the treats, but then good old I'm not going to name him, but good old
01:15:09
this kid was like a big ass snitch and got us all ratted out. And then yeah, my mate and I were in the after school
01:15:19
detention and his dad was in the army and he picked us up from cuz Yeah, someone had to pick you up from school
01:15:24
if it was after school detention because you missed all the buses. It was it was
01:15:28
like no one got after school detentions at that point at that school. It was Oh,
01:15:33
so that was really bad. It was like that was technically really really bad. Like
01:15:36
you disrespected the school. You're wearing the school uniform. We were outside the you know and it look was it
01:15:41
that bad? [ __ ] No. No. Doritos. It was it was the chocolate one that pushes the
01:15:46
things. You know the pushes the things back and forth. Just get right up there, man. You can grab one. It's a design
01:15:52
floor. But the worst thing is they're all like expired, aren't they? So, oh,
01:15:56
that's such a cool story. What a great thing to get in trouble for. Yeah, it
01:15:58
was pretty fun. Very low. But that was pretty good. It was pretty good. Yeah. Well, your parents must be proud. Yeah.
01:16:06
Yeah, I think they are. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Are they getting a kick out of it?
01:16:10
Yeah. Yeah. I think so. We We love having conversations about it all and you know, especially dad, about the
01:16:15
industry and how it all works and where it's going and why it's been this way
01:16:19
and where did we come from. Um, and then with mom, she's just number one fan as a
01:16:24
mom is, you know, like, "Oh, I love this and, "Oh, saw that tonight." Oh, that
01:16:28
just brings her joy to see every little premiere of a thing I have. It's They
01:16:33
love it and they just Yeah, they've always been supportive. I've got like
01:16:38
endless love for them. Um, I just I've moved back home right now cuz I'm in a
01:16:43
transition period and I just I'm in the house and I just see little things around the house. I'm like, "Ah, that
01:16:48
opportunity was created because of them." So, it was that I have like so many people to thank along the way. I
01:16:54
even went to the side side story. I went to my old high school and um I ended up going to
01:17:02
see their musical and my drama teacher, he was the best. And he just came up to me and he said, "Oh, wow. You're here.
01:17:09
Wow, nice. You're going to want to see the stage today." And when the curtains
01:17:13
opened for the play I'm doing called The Play That Gets Louder, I've got a poster
01:17:17
and it's like ah poster of my face. Uh, and they were just stuck on the stage as
01:17:22
part of the set and he'd put he'd put the play as almost as promo but as well
01:17:26
as set design. He put it up there and all the kids ask, "Who's that guy? He
01:17:31
went here. He did this." And I feel lucky to have had a teacher that supports you after you leave as well.
01:17:39
And I like to go back to the Kura and like help them as well and support them. I judged their talent quest and then
01:17:47
voted my house. Yes. to win. Who's biased? Who's biased? Not fair judging.
01:17:55
The system is rigged. Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah. Many other mentors like that. It seems like your parents. Yeah. Parents,
01:18:02
amazing sister. Love sister. Though she's not in the arts, but she she loves
01:18:07
she loves all the stuff I do. Um, yeah. So, Duncan Allen, Rachel Lam was amazing. Heather Tims from acting
01:18:15
school. I thought she was amazing. And then there's been one or two practitioners along the way that have
01:18:20
blown my mind and I'm like, "Wow, they just have an aura to them when they walk
01:18:26
in the space." You're and you just can't you can't figure it out. You you can't
01:18:29
figure it out. And I love those people. They're the best in the room. Not outside the room. They're different.
01:18:36
They're, you know, they're different outside the room, but in the room, they're just so fascinating
01:18:41
in their craft. It's like, wow. some of the lessons and everything that comes
01:18:45
out of their mouth and the way they walk and glide and the way they can share and
01:18:50
teach things. So, it's so fascinating. What about normal jobs? Have you had any Yeah.
01:18:58
Yeah. I uh worked in a movie theater. Um which is ironic, I guess. So, and that was really
01:19:05
interesting. Um Mission Bay, Berkeley Mission Bay, just like posh movie theater. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Like
01:19:12
a bougie little boutique. I had to learn how to make coffees, pour wine, open beers at 16. So I was like checking your
01:19:19
ID being like, "Are you old enough?" And I'm out here pouring a champagne. That
01:19:23
was weird. And I couldn't I couldn't didn't know how to open the brutes like
01:19:26
in the car and just and they're like, "Do you want me to do it for you?" Like,
01:19:30
"Yeah, you want to do it for me?" [ __ ] Um and then IDing people for like R18
01:19:35
and I'm out here 15 16 anyway. That was fun. Um I did the paper run for years.
01:19:42
Um that was hard like carrying all those things. So I started using a scooter. I
01:19:45
worked in a fruit store. I did like strawberry picking. Uh coached kids, little kids playing football. Yeah. Jobs
01:19:52
here and there. Awesome. And what about your inner circle? Who's in your like
01:19:56
who's in your inner circle and how do they support you? Yeah, absolutely. Um
01:20:00
so I've got like one of my best homies and uh I've known him since what maybe year 10 cuz he came from Ukraine.
01:20:11
So that's when he arrived in the country and um yeah, he's just been amazing cuz
01:20:15
he's polar opposite in terms of not in the arts and he's um so clever, so
01:20:21
smart. I can't pick his brain. Um but he understands so much so quickly and he he
01:20:27
learned how to assimilate so fast as well as get above it and then lead as well. Um uh another mate uh who I we
01:20:37
auditioned for toy together without knowing it. We'd gone through high school together and then got in and that
01:20:43
was like really buzzy. Um Callum, my my girlfriend, she's amazing. Yeah, I've
01:20:48
got this group of people who have also um supported the work and like supported what I do and but we don't make a big
01:20:57
thing of any of this life I'm doing, you know, and and a lot of them are in the
01:21:01
same career path, so this could be the situation for them, too. Um, but just just keeping as normal as I can with
01:21:08
them because it's just we're mates, you know, it's just us. And um, what about vulnerability and
01:21:15
stuff like that? You good at having um like serious conversations? Yeah, I am. I am. Um, do you think that's a Are you
01:21:22
thing or is that like a generational thing? Are all your friends the same age? I'm talking to you like you're an
01:21:26
alien. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I'm 52. I don't know how old your dad is. He's
01:21:30
probably a similar age. And it just wasn't a thing here when I was the same age as you.
01:21:35
Um, I I still don't think it's a thing. I just think I'm someone that will pave
01:21:40
that path and and and drive it towards other people so that like I was saying with Fraser, I'll ask people what's
01:21:47
their dream and they'll go, damn, I've never been asked that or something. And then we can get into
01:21:55
another conversation that takes you down. Well, actually, you know, I I grew up this way. And you know, the what what
01:22:01
school did you go to always triggers something. M. Um, so yeah, I I I do have those conversations and the writing I do
01:22:07
is about those conversations that are hard to get to and it's like why is that? And when you're in the arts,
01:22:12
you're that's all you do. You're like looking for that and you're searching
01:22:16
for that. So you're about depth. Um, but then you're like very aware that the
01:22:21
people who are meant to receive this art are not people who are in the arts. They're meant to be people who are just
01:22:26
doing all sorts of things, working their 9 toives or industrial jobs. And so it's
01:22:30
about connecting with those people and understanding where they're at and why
01:22:34
they're why they can't talk, but actually the ones that really feel the need to and can't. Um, and I've
01:22:41
encountered those kinds of people, too. Um, and yeah, it does happen on a on a dark night in middle of the night or
01:22:49
back in the day sometimes it would be over PS4 calls and you'd just end up there for too long. So that's how it
01:22:54
worked when I was in high school. um as well as parties and that whole drunk phase where it comes out and then
01:23:01
I had the whole lesson I made a short film which was about like can you say I love you without the alcohol like
01:23:06
without just being drunk that's maybe where you learn to say it I love you bro
01:23:10
it's all good but then without it can you can you actually still do it and you
01:23:13
can you just got to get there yeah it's harder it's but you can get there how's how's your mental health
01:23:20
been it's been good yeah it's been really good I've had to learn a lot
01:23:24
about um where I am and my position of my career and just that tells you a lot about um how each day goes as well
01:23:34
because you got to kind of be on top of that and so if I understand that the day
01:23:39
by days are really important to me and and I love having lots good sleep so thank you for asking how about yourself
01:23:47
it's good today it's good today I I have moments yeah yeah it's like a constant sort of curve
01:23:53
but I've um I've got better and better to be honest like like at your age it's not something that um was even
01:24:01
discussed or thought about like uh you just you just it just wasn't um it didn't sort of exist. Um it's only sort
01:24:07
of something I suppose that's become a conversation like the last 10 or 15 years in New Zealand. So now I I I I can
01:24:14
see signs now and I can see signs probably when I was your age and I look back now I go, "Oh, okay. I was [ __ ]
01:24:19
depressed." Like if I was snappy at people or or I got angry at people. I at
01:24:24
the time I'd think I was justified because they stole my car park or they flipped me the bird in traffic or
01:24:28
whatever. And I look back now and go, "Okay, no, I was I was upset at that point because I was [ __ ] I was
01:24:34
depressed." M was there a person for you then that changed that flipped the
01:24:38
switch 10 15 years ago or or I figure or was it just in the air and everyone was
01:24:44
probably some probably something I worked out myself and uh yeah and now now I'm pretty good I realize if it's if
01:24:50
it's not where it should be and then I can course correct it. Um but it's an
01:24:55
ongoing sort of thing and but it's an unreasonable expectation to be happy all
01:24:58
the time as well. Absolutely. Like you need the lows in life to appreciate the highs. Hey. Yeah, definitely. And like
01:25:04
embracing the cry and the little down buzz and just kind of bathing in it sometimes being like, you know what? But
01:25:11
you're an actor. You're good at that stuff. Yeah, exactly. But then you get
01:25:13
caught up in like trying to feel things. You got to be careful there as well. Just let it pass through you. Yeah. What
01:25:20
about um biggest adversity? What would be the biggest adversity you've been through?
01:25:25
Well, the biggest stuff is the stuff I'd never say on here if I'm being completely honest. Cool. Um, I respect
01:25:32
that. Yeah, because I think they're always things you're trying to figure
01:25:35
out as well as um they're really private and that goes back to that thing protecting my
01:25:41
privacy. Um but the kind of adversities that are out in the ether are probably just things about
01:25:50
um working hard and and staying on top of that and and and making and really wanting to go there without getting in
01:25:58
the way of other people, without bringing people down and without taking up too much space. And with that comes
01:26:05
some racial things and some of it comes personality things and just making sure you're not being a too much when you're
01:26:12
doing all of this because it seems like a very me me career. Um if we're talking
01:26:18
career but if we're talking life I think yeah just think things that would be too
01:26:24
Yeah. I'd need a not not for podcast not for podcast now like may maybe if we
01:26:29
have a conversation in 10 years time it'll be a different story because often
01:26:32
these adversities happen and there's enough daylight that passes that talk about yeah yeah and I and I I do also
01:26:38
know when you're even on a platform like this sitting here today I know the effects it can have when you speak out
01:26:43
and you talk about those things but also I'm not going to sit here and be like I
01:26:47
figured it out and I know where I'm coming from and d and how to feel about it because I think you still have to
01:26:51
figure that out yourself and uh and and it does take time to figure those sorts of things
01:26:58
out. Yeah, bro. I'm still figuring [ __ ] out. Yeah. Yeah. But but you I I was um
01:27:05
at your age, I was way more chaotic than what you are. Like you seem to have your
01:27:08
head screwed on the right way. Like I'm just thinking Yeah. I've been in awe of
01:27:12
the discipline you've got like to do the the freelance stuff that you're doing
01:27:16
and the way you do it. Like it's uh it's seriously impressive. It's like a lot of
01:27:20
people when they finish school and go to university, how you know it's like school, but suddenly if you miss a
01:27:25
lecture, no one's going to call you out for it. Um, no one's you're your own
01:27:29
boss. Like so if you skip a day, no one's going to know apart from you. So the fact that you're so diligent about
01:27:35
it, it's um it's really impressive, I think. Thank you. I appreciate that.
01:27:39
Yeah. I guess the only con that comes with it is embracing the messiness. That's the like one tip I got at drama
01:27:47
school from the drama teachers. They were like, "You're so calculated and
01:27:51
almost perfectionist about things. Um, just just let it go a bit. You can [ __ ] up and you can make mistakes." And
01:27:59
but then another teacher encouraged me as an acting technique to lean into the intellect of the heart. Okay, you're
01:28:05
intellectual. You like to think things through. Do that. And then, you know, as they say, when you get to roll the
01:28:11
camera and you call action or you do the thing, let it all go. Let it all go. See
01:28:16
what happens. M but I'm still learning to do that. Yeah. I like to know what
01:28:20
happens and and it it's terrifying. Like so you you've you've grown up with the
01:28:24
internet and social media, you know. Uh does cancel culture like worry you? Does
01:28:29
it keep you awake at night? You know, the thought the thought of a tweet you wrote when you were 16 like Yeah. Oh
01:28:35
yeah. Oh man, there was there's some stuff you could put but I've left it up
01:28:38
there because I'm also Yeah. I think it be it's incredibly cruel when you see that happen. Yeah,
01:28:44
the the UK media in particular is savage with it. Yeah, cuz I I don't know where
01:28:48
the line is on things, too. Uh, and I was like really young with some stuff on the YouTube. If you want, you can go and
01:28:54
find it now. Um, but I think that's part of the learning kind of being like,
01:28:58
okay, I did that. Um, I don't know. But it was there's never anything too far as
01:29:04
well. I was always kind of aware of like don't you can tell the context of which
01:29:09
I might have made it to be honest that OG stuff. But cancelling like am I worried about it? No, not so I don't
01:29:16
think I know there's nothing that I've really done that could get me unless
01:29:20
someone deep fakes me and figures out how to Oh, that's a good even if it is
01:29:25
true, you can say it's a deep fake. Yeah. I'm more scared of that of of you
01:29:30
know being Yeah. identity stolen or something. Yeah. What would you say your best and worst habits are? Oh, okay.
01:29:39
Yeah, good question. Uh, worst habit is apparently like I blink like really quickly.
01:29:47
Yeah, I haven't noticed it. Okay, cool. Yeah, girlfriend says it a lot. She's
01:29:50
like, "Whoa, you just did 10. You always do that. You do like 10 in a row."
01:29:54
Scratch the back of my head here. Feel like if there was an FBI body language expert, there's there's got to be
01:29:59
something in that like this guy's lying. Yeah. Um, oh, I'm like very specific
01:30:06
about driving and like got to get to every pl, you I'll put Google Maps every
01:30:10
time even though I know the layout of Oakuckland like the back of my hand. I just want to get there. Oh, the fastest
01:30:15
route. The fastest route. Even if that means like, you know, like taking the weirdest route always the So, and then I
01:30:21
just it's it's a game. That whole driving is a complete game to me. It's
01:30:25
like what is he going to indicate? And then I'll put on Mission Impossible and
01:30:29
turn it into a movie and drive it, you on God. I've done that the other day going to rehearsals. I was like this is
01:30:36
I have to deliver the briefcase. It's in my boot and I've got to get to Yeah,
01:30:42
you're always on. Always on. Best best habit though. Um constantly making uh like Yeah. constantly creating and
01:30:52
best habit um being being phil over philosophical actually. That's actually quite a fun
01:30:59
thing cuz it annoys some of my mates and friends. But I bet we wouldn't have
01:31:03
those combos at all if so I I don't mind. They just transpire into something. Maybe that's a worse habit as
01:31:10
well, though. [ __ ] And when was the last time you you cried? Not like an acting cry, like um like an actual two
01:31:15
two days ago. Really? Yeah. Over my drama teacher that I was explaining the work he's done at that school over the
01:31:22
last 25 years is extraordinary. And it means that you get people like myself who get to do it as a profession. And I
01:31:30
just was like I was just so moved by it. I don't know. It's just it it is incredible the
01:31:37
kind of things like gratitude tears. Gratitude. Yeah, those were gratitude tears. And then maybe a couple days
01:31:44
before running the play, it was like just the end of the play I'm doing, the
01:31:50
stakes the character has to go through just get me. I'm like, "Oh, that's sad.
01:31:56
It's really sad. What's going on here?" [ __ ] It must be nice to me that
01:32:01
they're that in touch with your emotions. Like I I don't think in my 20ies I cried at all. And I probably saw
01:32:05
it as a badge of honor. Like I I um Yeah. Apart from funerals, I don't think
01:32:09
I would have allowed myself the emotion of crying in my 20s. Yeah. Suppose if you're hanging out with
01:32:15
a theater crowd, maybe you're more open to expressing all sorts of emotions.
01:32:18
Maybe it's unlocked something. Yeah. I I think I've like over what's the word? Over cooked it to
01:32:26
be like it's cool. Like it's cool to maybe come on hurry up and cry. Um, give
01:32:33
me the wooden spoon. Yeah. Yeah. But other things would be more like the badge of honor or, you know, it would be
01:32:40
like you got to act a little cool. If you're coming around a tough person, you
01:32:45
got to dress a little just a little this and that. And not dress cool, but match the energy in a room. I'm very
01:32:54
good at reading rooms and then I want to match it and not be the sore thumb. And
01:32:58
if I am the sore thumb, it's deliberate. It's not by accident. What do you mean
01:33:01
the sore thumb? Oh, the sorry. The person that sticks out like a sore thumb. Oh, okay. Right. Sorry, I really
01:33:05
abbreviated that. Right. But you can stick it stick out like a sore thumb a sore thumb. And it doesn't have to be a
01:33:10
bad thing, right? You could be the person that walks into a room and Yes. Yes. And that's what I mean. And I'm
01:33:14
more like I'll do that deliberately. Okay. Um and then or or no, I am and be
01:33:20
like, "Fuck it. Yeah, I'm going to show them that." And then it's over
01:33:23
conversating trying to show them I'm the odd one out here. Um otherwise, I'd try
01:33:27
my best to blend in cuz that's what growing up in high school was like. I got to fit in with all these peeps to um
01:33:35
match the world they're coming from, I guess, and just keep it equilibrium. Yeah. Yeah. It's good that you can play
01:33:41
both those roles for lack of a better term because if you're blending in, then
01:33:45
that allows you to watch other people and observe them, which is ultimately going to help your craft. If you're if
01:33:49
you're in a room and the room's revolving around you, then you you know,
01:33:53
you're not furthering yourself, are you? Creating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And
01:33:56
that that Yeah. That comes with being mixed. I've always traced it back to being mixed because it's like Bob Marley
01:34:02
was so big on unity and that famous moment where he brings the two hands together and how many black Jamaicans
01:34:09
were like, "What are you doing? Don't do that. Leave them alone." And then how
01:34:14
many white people were like, you know, leave them alone. Why are they Aussie now? Um crikey. Crikey. Did you see SW's
01:34:23
son is in that Bond advert? Robert. Robert. Yeah. Oh, I was I got served that today with the snake. Yeah. Yeah.
01:34:29
With the snake. I know. I didn't know that was Robert Owen. Yeah, that's
01:34:31
Robert Owen. That's Robert Owen. Hell of a rig. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Criy. Look at those.
01:34:38
Yeah. He's a good-looking rooster. Yeah. Yeah. He isome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um your
01:34:44
future goals, where do you where do you see yourself at 30, 40, 50? I mean like um the social media thing. Tik Tok is
01:34:50
such a fast moving beast. Yeah. I don't know where that goes. I'll just keep
01:34:54
doing it until I find it boring. That's actually going to be the copout. And I
01:34:58
think if I stop if I stop doing TikTok, I'd probably feel a bit weird. So that's
01:35:03
why if it's in my power, I'll keep doing it. Um, and if it got deleted or
01:35:07
removed, maybe it would be like a sign to let it go. Um, uh, in terms of the career path, I'd love to be playing some
01:35:14
awesome roles. I'd love to be a character actor like Gary Oldman or something. I'd love to be doing things
01:35:18
where you you wouldn't recognize me on the street because there's costume and
01:35:22
there's makeup and there's specificity on movement and gesture. Gary Gary is
01:35:27
that is he lamb and slow horses. Is that him? I I haven't seen Slow Horses yet,
01:35:31
but he probably he's probably that he's probably the lamb without even knowing
01:35:35
it on his I don't know. Um yeah, Gary Oldman's like Churchill if you saw
01:35:40
Churchill. Yeah. Yeah. He's in that massive suit. He's also serious black and Harry
01:35:45
Potter. Um, anyway, he's brilliant and Robin Williams is another great these
01:35:52
people. I just like their career, their choices. Denzel, I like the kind of things they've gotten up to. Daniel Kuya
01:35:59
is great. And so, I kind of want to dip my toes in some comedy, dip my toes in in some action, um, some thrillers, and
01:36:06
I'd love to be able to keep writing, maybe direct one day, get back into directing. That's all on the horizon.
01:36:12
And then when I'm 30, I'd love to have a family, some kids. Uh not not at 30, but
01:36:17
you know, over that line at some point. I do not want to call out the day. I don't want to know the day. I don't want
01:36:23
to know the day. Oh, you can't. Yeah. Well, it seems like you're um you're on
01:36:27
the right track. The good goal. It's funny that you mentioned Robin Williams.
01:36:30
Yeah. At the start, I said, "What you What are you What are you doing with standup comedy?" Like, you know, you
01:36:34
sort of choose one. But um there was a a man um that did it all. One of the world's best stand-up comedians and also
01:36:41
a phenomenal actor. brilliant. Yeah, he's just he's just brilliant. And it's
01:36:45
just such a shame. He's like one of the saddest celebrity deaths, as they say,
01:36:48
because it's just like he gave so much. And uh that actor um what's his name? Uh
01:36:57
I can't remember his name, but he said he gave so much it had to go somewhere.
01:37:02
And he was so quiet and you just see him in his trailer and he was just def deflated because he gave it everything.
01:37:09
And uh not that I'm that or anything. I just find that inspiring that he did
01:37:13
give so much for the craft, for the world, for the laughs, for the kids with cancer, for the comedians. He gave a lot
01:37:20
and uh kept going. I just even was listening to the Aladdin soundtrack um and a song from it and I thought,
01:37:28
"Wow, just the the vocal the dynamic vocal range. It's like he could he could
01:37:32
have done music like he could have done a lot of musical theater." Yeah. He's
01:37:36
got it. Yeah. Crazy good actor. Yeah. you watch, you know, Goodwill Hunting or something where he's doing a serious
01:37:42
role and it's just Yeah. phenomenal. And it's a shame to think that he was
01:37:45
wearing such a mask. I know. Yeah. Terrible. I I heard um yeah, at the start we talked about how your your goal
01:37:51
previously has been to win an Oscar and that's changed. I heard I think it was
01:37:55
another podcast or maybe another dream with um Fraser's 10,000 Dreams project
01:37:59
um that you were keen to work with um Tyler the Creator. Did I say that? Oh my gosh. It was a chance the rapper was
01:38:06
someone with that as the middle name. I would have said Tyler the Creator. Yeah.
01:38:10
Yeah. Still or what? No. Uh I'm interested in him as a artist, but I've had my Tyler fan face. It's not anymore.
01:38:19
It's not as much there anymore. I'm not as much of a fan of musicians as I was
01:38:24
as well. I like so many different genres, jazz, musicals, uh Cuban stuff. I get really niche. And so I can't fall
01:38:33
into one thing. closest you could get me is Kendrick Lamar, but I'm also like I'm
01:38:39
okay with being where I am and like if I have to if I cross paths with them one day, I would love that. But someone like
01:38:46
Donald Glover is amazing. I'd like to see how he works and yeah, the way he cross disciplines in so many ways.
01:38:53
That's incredible. Yeah. Would you would you are you interested in music at all
01:38:57
for you? Uh it could be a maybe a thing. I just that's like the ultimate fame
01:39:04
problem, isn't it? Isn't it? Um, c can you sing? Yeah, I can sing. Yeah. So,
01:39:10
well, not not amazingly, but I can sing. And so, I' I'd love to do musical
01:39:14
theater again. That would be one way in. I love freestyle rapping. So, uh, yeah,
01:39:19
I guess I can rap. Um, I can't play an instrument. That's just where I'll be
01:39:24
straight up. And I wish I could. Good. Got me there. [ __ ] It's unfair that
01:39:30
someone should have too much. I really greedy. But it it annoys me because if I could learn an instrument, I would have
01:39:37
been able to sing a little more and write music. Like I would just been able to do that. So Oh, if only. If only.
01:39:44
Another life. Um, three words that family or say your your friends or girlfriend would use to describe you.
01:39:51
Damn, it's their job, not mine. Um passionate um creative and thinker. Yeah.
01:40:16
Yeah. One thing I love about this podcast is um you know it'll stay online. Five years from now you'll look
01:40:22
back and be interesting to see you know where you are in three years like compared to now and whether you you know
01:40:28
because we've talked about the Oscar award and um Tyler the creator you know
01:40:32
whether those three words are the same in another five years or yeah they're
01:40:36
great words and um I think they accurately sum up the yeah you know the person I've got to meet today. Yeah
01:40:41
thank you. I it's really interesting. There was a a point in this maybe 20 minutes ago where I realized, oh, I'm
01:40:48
not asking you questions and I feel bad about that cuz I like when these are conversations, but it's because you have
01:40:54
asked such good questions and I've been on a lot of podcasts in the last 3 years
01:40:59
and this has been the best. I can feel it and I I can tell and right now sitting here because I'm like you've
01:41:04
done your research and you're you're curiously asking and that just shows
01:41:09
you're an OG in the game who really knows what you're doing. So I'm very
01:41:13
grateful to have sat down and talked to you today Dom. Yeah. Oh, thank you Theo.
01:41:16
Yeah, likewise, mate. Last one. Are you proud of yourself? Yeah, I I am. Yeah, I
01:41:20
am. I am. I am. Yeah. I look in the mirror and I'm like, yo, this is this is
01:41:25
cool, man. Wow. [ __ ] I'm doing the thing. And we only like 5% there. Yeah,
01:41:30
[ __ ] I love that. I love that. That's um such a such a nonkey, but we need to
01:41:36
like reframe that. We need to smash that and reframe it. Um there's nothing wrong
01:41:39
with being proud of yourself. It's bloody great. Yeah. Yeah. Hard out. Good for you. Hey, man. This has been so much
01:41:44
fun. Thank you. Best of luck for everything. I can't wait to see what's next. Yes. And oh, I should plug the
01:41:49
dates of the um the comedy show. So, 13th to the 17th at the Cellar Q uh theater. Come see it. Judging by the
01:41:58
look of things, it'll be an hour. It'll be fun. It'll be different. And uh it'll
01:42:01
be the freshest thing. Don't worry, that's going to be at the front of the
01:42:05
podcast as well. Be in the show notes. Link in bio. Is that where you I still I actually still do that and I got told
01:42:13
off for doing it. So maybe I'm like one up one generation. Link not in bio. Not
01:42:17
in bio. All right. Theo shakes. Thanks, brother. Thank you.