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James Marshall on Crusaders '24 Season, What A Lad Podcast & Lessons from Razor

May 05, 2024 / 01:40:32

This episode features James Marshall, a former rugby player and current assistant coach of the Crusaders, discussing his transition from player to coach, the pressures of coaching, and his podcasting journey.

Marshall shares insights on the current season of the Crusaders, noting their challenging start with four losses and the pressure that comes with it. He reflects on the coaching style of Rob Penney, the new head coach, and how they are managing external expectations.

The conversation touches on Marshall's rugby career, including his time with the Hurricanes and his experiences in coaching. He discusses the importance of building relationships with players and balancing his coaching responsibilities with family life.

Marshall also highlights the supportive nature of the podcasting community and his motivation for starting his podcast, which aims to showcase the personalities of rugby players beyond their on-field personas.

He concludes with thoughts on self-awareness, gratitude, and the importance of maintaining a healthy perspective on both his career and personal life.

TL;DR

James Marshall discusses coaching challenges, his podcast journey, and balancing family life while reflecting on his rugby career.

Episode

1:40:32

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[Music]

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James Jimmy Marshall what a l welome

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welcome to my podcast mate thanks for

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having me on it's um yeah a true honor

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to be in here like I've been following

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your journey right from when I saw that

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you had launched it and remember

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messaging you thinking or knowing how

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good you're going to go but it's been

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awesome watching your progression and

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see where we are now interviewing some

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of the excluding me but some of the

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biggest stars in New Zealand feel a

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little bit uncomfortable on here but um

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no looking forward to it oh no it's um

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it's an absolute honor to have you here

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like you you've um been super supportive

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from day one like you you've had your

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incredible what L podcast going for

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maybe two or three years before I

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launched and um yeah you very helpful I

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remember in an early episode I I I had

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one mic that wasn't working properly and

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the levels were all over the place and

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you just messaged me out of the blue and

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told me about some app I can use to fix

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that and I've um it's been like crack to

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me I've used it ever since it's um and I

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I have loved that about the um like the

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sort of podcasting Community like it's

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really supportive and inclusive yeah

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everyone sort of sees it from the

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outside side and thinks you're competing

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against each other but I don't feel like

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many people in there um feel it that way

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like so many people can listen to

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whatever podcast they want and there's

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so much um time for people to listen to

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whatever so um the more you can sort of

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help other people grow and um grow the

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whole podcast Community itself I think

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is beneficial 100% and you've um you've

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done so well with yours uh I I feel like

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there's probably a lot of people that

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know you more as um the watered

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podcaster than they do for your rugby

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career which was also amazing yeah I

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like when I go somewhere now more get

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more comments about um love your podcast

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and I would about howy did you used to

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play rugby or are you the Crusaders

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coach that's definitely favored to more

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the podcast I think people who tune into

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podcast they feel like they get that

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connection with you if they listening to

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it um consistently and um I feel like

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they have that

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um I guess chance to come and approach

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you and um share what they they think of

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your podcast or that they love your work

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and um yeah it seems like that yeah okay

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so quick quick CV for you so um Jimmy

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Marshall over 50 Super Rugby games for

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the Hurricanes uh a Super Rugby title

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with the Hurricanes um an itm cup title

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as Captain of taneki yeah and um coach

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of the tesman Marco and now assistant

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coach of the

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Crusaders yeah pretty good when like

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that yeah so um obviously had a pretty

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decent footy career in the end like from

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someone who never thought he would

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really um have a professional rugby

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career managed to um took a lot more

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goals off than I ever thought I would

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and um the transition into coaching's

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been something that um has just happened

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so so quickly Post 40 straight into

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coaching and wasn't really something I

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was looking to chase at that time but

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um opportunities have just sort of come

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to me and just sort of jumped at them

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and yeah here I am yeah there's there's

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so much to unpack with you um we we'll

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start with uh why you were here today um

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I'm lucky to have you here because um

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the Crusaders are playing the ockland

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blues tonight uh what is it Saturday the

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23rd of March um and I can't imagine how

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much how much pressure um you and the

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team are under you've had four games so

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far uh four losses so far I think it's

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the worst start to a crusader season

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since 1996 yeah my coaching career might

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be quite

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short it could be the end of it but um

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now it has been it's been a incredibly

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tough start to the season um in terms of

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pressure I haven't felt the pressure

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probably as much as external feel like I

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have um I feel like we're in a pretty

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similar spot this time last year we'd

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managed to scrape a couple of wins but

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we're also playing pretty clunky and um

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feel like a couple of games this year

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could have easily gone the other way but

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um and the beauty of this season is it's

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um the last three games at the end of

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the competition really it's a top eight

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um I expect us to be in the top eight

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and then just have to win three games

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from there and um I know a lot of people

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last year was my first season and I was

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feeling under pressure then cuz I felt

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like we weren't playing as the standard

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that we should have been but

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it's amazing how many people have

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forgotten how average we were last year

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because we got the result at the end of

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it so yeah well that's all that matters

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isn't it it's the name that's engraved

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on the trophy and that's it how you get

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it's whether you win pretty or ugly it

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doesn't [ __ ] matter yeah and I

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hopefully this season um when we get to

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the end of it people will be saying the

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same how do you um I mean this is

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probably more a question for the new

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coach who was it Rob Penning yeah yeah

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so yeah Scott Razer Robertson he has

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he's like been with the Crusaders for

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the last six or so Seasons won all of

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them and then there's a new coach Rob

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Penny um how like how do you guys block

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out the noise like when when you four

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losses down at the beginning of the

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Season there's a lot of lot of external

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noise yeah there is um I think Rob Pen's

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done a outstanding job he's um he's

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never SE flustered he's always thinking

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next job and uh he knows how close we

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are away from some results so I think

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he's handled it really well and um

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obviously obiously it was a tough tough

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um role to come into with razor success

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and um wasn't really a win scenario for

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him so I know you've been trying to get

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Razer on your podcast for

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about I've been pting him too much but

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his success was um oh you won't see that

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from a coach ever I wouldn't imagine

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it's just what they've achieved over

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that last 7e period's been pretty

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special and it was awesome to sort of

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witness it last year and see how it all

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worked so so what does today look like

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for you we're we're recording this at

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9:30 on the Saturday morning of game day

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what does game day look like game day is

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probably the most um chilled out day as

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a coach um post the game you're straight

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into reviews and previews and um it it

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gets really busy up until about game day

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and then um the morning of game you're

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basically free hence why could jump on

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this and then we'll meet up at about

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2:00 to go through a little walk through

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and then and um leave the boys to it

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until we meet for the bus so it's a

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pretty cruzy day but I'll start looking

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at um the teams next week we've just

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done a um Scout we call it of the Chiefs

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who we've got next week this morning so

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I'm start planning ahead for what's to

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come the following week wow yeah so yeah

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all your all your work's done by game

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day I suppose to say it like complete

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different to how it was as a player when

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you're probably like a bundle of nerves

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at this time on game day the last thing

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you'd be doing on the morning of game

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day player like a 90-minute [ __ ] chat on

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a podcast that is completely different

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like um definitely the nerve levels I

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don't get that same nervousness as a

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coach um playing I was I was used to get

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quite nervous especially um the morning

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of I was all right once I got to the

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stadium and sort of got around the boys

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but um the morning of I always found

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myself overthinking or um playing the

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game out of my head probably a little

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bit too much so

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it's quite quite nice having a morning

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where you can just sort of be a bit

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Freer yeah you look so relaxed um what

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what's your relationship like with the

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the players cuz you're coming from that

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that player sort of environment you know

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every single rugby player they talk

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about the um you know the camaraderie

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and just hanging out with the boys sort

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of thing do you can you sort of be

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friends with the players or do you need

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that sort of Coach player separation

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yeah that's something that I'm still

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sort of weighing up or trying to work

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out like I still feel like I can have a

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relationship ship with the players and

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if um got invited around to a barbecue

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or I'd be more than comfortable going

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around and just hanging out with some of

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the players as a mate so there's about

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five of them who are still older than me

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so I feel like I'm um still relatable to

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a lot of them and in a same situation

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with a lot some of our kids are are good

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friends so I don't feel the need to

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separate that those relationships but I

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know a lot of coaches have sort of

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recommended that to me but I guess I

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work that out if um there is any issues

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down the road and how's how is your home

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life um you see you're married you got

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how many kids got three boys at the

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moment and my wife's pregnant so oh [ __ ]

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we've got another boy on the way you're

00:09:13

a how do you fit everything in like your

00:09:15

your podcast is excellent and um it

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feels like you've if anything you've

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ramped I remember you and I having a

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having a chat I think at the beginning

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of last year or maybe the end of 2022

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just when you got the Crusaders job and

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you were talking about putting the water

00:09:27

Leed podcast on ice or doing bi-weekly

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episodes look at here you got four going

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be a dad of four one of the biggest

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coaching jobs in the country and you're

00:09:37

ramping the podcast up yeah that's

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definitely the thing that um is my

00:09:42

biggest struggle at the moment is my

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time management and being able to juggle

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everything um the family life's busy um

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the wife still she's pregnant so she

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wants as much help as possible um my

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coaching is like you say is full on and

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that's always has to be my priority at

00:10:00

this this time of the year and um with

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the podcast I was sort of banked a lot

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of my episodes before the season started

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so I haven't had to record podcasts

00:10:10

throughout the week or do any any real

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work there just the odd um clip or

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whatever just while I'm sitting at the

00:10:16

hotel usually start making some clips or

00:10:19

a few things like that so um trying to

00:10:22

make it as effortless as possible but

00:10:25

still being able to produce the content

00:10:27

from a podcast has being the being the

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the struggle and um while not

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sacrificing any of my coaching time cuz

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that has to be the priority especially

00:10:36

when you're um 0 and

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four yeah is it is it good money being a

00:10:41

being an assistant coach for like a a

00:10:43

successful Super Rugby team it's um it's

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recently good money yeah yeah so um

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probably getting paid the same as I did

00:10:52

as a player um unreal yeah so at the

00:10:55

Hurricanes yeah yeah so um so so your

00:10:58

wife so you've you've since you've been

00:11:00

together you've moved like house 20

00:11:02

times or something yeah um you've moved

00:11:04

countries she must really really love

00:11:07

you um um I believe um this The Story

00:11:10

Goes that you moved to Nelson for the

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coaching job at the um tesman Marco and

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um and you were like that's it this is

00:11:15

it yeah um yeah we're we're we're you

00:11:18

know putting our Roots down and then you

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get a call from Razer yeah um do you do

00:11:23

you say yes to Raza on that phone call

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or do you say I'll discuss it with my

00:11:26

wife how does that conversation go yes

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so I didn't even move to Nelson for the

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coaching job I actually just moved to

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Nelson because that was home and uh we

00:11:37

bought a house in Maro we loved it out

00:11:39

there and I sort of because we had moved

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so many times I said to my wife that I

00:11:44

wouldn't chase that coaching dream

00:11:46

because generally the coaching dream is

00:11:49

a lot of moving like a player so um got

00:11:52

to the point where moo set up in NS and

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got an opportunity to coach with tasmin

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and I thought thought okay that that' be

00:12:00

fine still in the same place we won't

00:12:01

have to move but yeah 2 years later

00:12:04

Razer does call and that was actually a

00:12:08

lot harder than people probably or

00:12:10

people assume it was a harder decision

00:12:12

yeah yeah I was

00:12:14

genuinely um weighing that up whether it

00:12:16

was going to be a yes or no and had a

00:12:19

good hard conversation with my wife that

00:12:22

I wasn't going to take that unless she

00:12:26

was fully into it cuz I knew how happy

00:12:28

she was where she where we were in my

00:12:30

poor the kids were all settled and I'm

00:12:33

sort of committed to not chasing the the

00:12:35

dream so I I genuinely um felt like that

00:12:39

and then I guess the more people she

00:12:42

talked to um the more pressure came on

00:12:44

her because everyone's like you can't

00:12:47

stop him from doing this or like and

00:12:50

then she got to the point where um she

00:12:52

was happy enough to make the move and

00:12:54

the big relocation and yeah we're down

00:12:57

there now and we're really enjoying

00:12:59

[ __ ] that's supportive yeah that is

00:13:02

super supportive oh poor thing put the

00:13:04

onus on her um yeah cuz you for you it

00:13:08

must have been like a like a a

00:13:09

no-brainer like you you want it so bad

00:13:12

yeah I knew the opportunity it was like

00:13:15

for my coaching experience and the

00:13:18

ability to go into the most successful

00:13:20

Super Rugby franchise in history and

00:13:24

Coach with some of the best coaches in

00:13:25

the world I knew it was uh an incredible

00:13:28

opportunity for for me to to do so I had

00:13:31

that in my mind as well but I also knew

00:13:35

that the commitment that I'd made and I

00:13:37

know how every year the kids get older

00:13:40

the moves got harder so um was aware of

00:13:44

that as well so it was a real W

00:13:47

of job life um career or um family and I

00:13:51

think career obviously one what if if um

00:13:55

if it was a hard no so you had to remain

00:13:57

in Nelson would um would you been like a

00:13:59

little bitter and

00:14:01

resentful she always felt like I would

00:14:03

have been but I don't think I would have

00:14:06

been I would have just had to move on

00:14:07

pretty quickly and um would have yeah

00:14:11

not sure I think would have I was

00:14:13

thinking of potentially going harder on

00:14:15

the podcast if that was the route and um

00:14:18

seeing if that could be a full-time job

00:14:21

or doing probably tasmine on the side

00:14:22

where I've gone the other way and gone

00:14:25

the coaching fulltime and podcast on the

00:14:27

side I do feel like it's of those things

00:14:30

that would have been bought up every

00:14:31

time there's an argument I could have

00:14:33

been the all coach by now um what so

00:14:36

Scott Razer Robertson what makes him so

00:14:38

good so you you managed to have one

00:14:39

season like observing the the master

00:14:42

everyone talks about his relationship

00:14:44

with the players and just how he's I

00:14:46

don't know just has demeanor like what

00:14:48

were the big takeaways you got from your

00:14:49

year with him yeah it's definitely that

00:14:51

connection piece around how we can

00:14:53

connect a whole group connect with

00:14:56

players individually connect um

00:14:59

not only the playing 23 or um 34

00:15:02

whatever is in the squad it's the board

00:15:04

down to the the academy it's the whole

00:15:08

um the whole room's aligned on on what

00:15:11

his goal is and I thought he just did

00:15:13

that really well and um yeah just

00:15:16

balance he knew he knew the most

00:15:18

important thing of a coaching role he

00:15:20

told me that pretty early was the squad

00:15:23

that he has so selection of the squad

00:15:25

and um recruitment of the squad is

00:15:28

massive for coach it's um no matter how

00:15:30

good you are as a coach if you haven't

00:15:32

got the caliber of players it's going to

00:15:33

be really tough job for you and um also

00:15:36

the caliber of coaching staff um you get

00:15:40

in so um I think he's done it really

00:15:42

well with the All Blacks he's hired

00:15:45

probably five of the best coaches I've

00:15:47

worked with in my career um so I'm

00:15:51

looking forward to seeing how they go

00:15:53

and how that group Works yeah's he's a

00:15:56

fascinating guy there definitely seems

00:15:57

to be like a um

00:16:00

almost like a personality shift in him

00:16:01

in the last couple of years as he sort

00:16:03

of like groomed his way to be an old

00:16:04

black coach he you know he's he he seems

00:16:06

more serious I guess in some ways um you

00:16:10

you would have seen him like with his

00:16:11

with his guard down I guess you would

00:16:12

have seen him at his you know most

00:16:14

relaxed um yeah what's it what what's he

00:16:16

like as a person yeah he is he is a very

00:16:18

relaxed guy he's um loves his surfing

00:16:21

loves loves a good joke and a story so

00:16:25

um I think the serious side comes comes

00:16:27

when it's the media yeah yeah I suppose

00:16:30

it's out of necessity I mean there's

00:16:32

been some comments online saying like

00:16:34

because of the breakdown and he's not

00:16:35

fit to be no black coach it's just

00:16:37

absurd yeah no there's there's a lot

00:16:38

around that and I even learned that last

00:16:41

year like doing a um interview early in

00:16:45

the season around um the week that was

00:16:49

coming up and I they sort of asked me

00:16:51

like just like you did before like what

00:16:52

do your what does your day look like on

00:16:54

your flight we're flying to Australia to

00:16:57

play um the reds or the rebels um and I

00:17:01

just mentioned that a lot of that flight

00:17:03

I'll be looking at the Chiefs because um

00:17:05

we'll have our preview um oh so getting

00:17:08

like one game ahead of yourself and then

00:17:10

the article comes out um Crusaders focus

00:17:12

on Chiefs not not taking the red serious

00:17:16

and I was like oh geez Razer pulled me

00:17:18

over at the airport and he's like have

00:17:21

you have you read this I was like no

00:17:22

haven't it's like read it I was like

00:17:24

this isn't a good look and he's like man

00:17:26

you just got to be so careful it's not a

00:17:28

podcast when you're talking to the media

00:17:29

you've got to you can't give them

00:17:31

anything and that was a real lesson for

00:17:33

me and I I find it a real shame because

00:17:35

I'd love to be able to give more insight

00:17:37

into the game and um insight into how a

00:17:41

Coach Works how the players work how

00:17:42

they're feeling the real emotions of

00:17:45

coaching but you just you just can't

00:17:47

because it can just get thrown out of

00:17:49

proportion and a big headline can come

00:17:51

out which puts the team Under Pressure

00:17:52

puts the organization under pressure and

00:17:56

um yeah I just find that a real shame

00:17:58

and yeah it's massively it's massively

00:18:00

disappointing because everyone talks

00:18:01

about how how like boring the rugby

00:18:03

players are in this country and how they

00:18:05

never give anything but I suppose you

00:18:06

get burnt once and then that's it you're

00:18:07

done um and I feel like that's one

00:18:09

really good thing about your podcast

00:18:11

like it's created this um safe space

00:18:13

where you're just getting content out of

00:18:15

these players that that no no no other

00:18:18

media arm has been able to do and I I

00:18:20

feel like part of that is part of that

00:18:22

is your communication style of course

00:18:23

part of it's probably that you know they

00:18:25

can relate to you because you know

00:18:26

you're a player as well but I yeah one

00:18:29

thing I love about like I I don't know

00:18:30

[ __ ] about rugby but your your um

00:18:33

podcast it's very very accessible like a

00:18:35

very low entry point like it's not even

00:18:37

really about rugby to much of a degree

00:18:39

you know what I mean that was the whole

00:18:41

point I wanted to set it up I was quite

00:18:43

passionate about it because I was sick

00:18:44

of seeing the

00:18:46

players um the player that they

00:18:48

portrayed to the media and then I see

00:18:50

them in the changing rooms and they're

00:18:52

absolute characters or they've got great

00:18:55

stories and all this stuff I'm like man

00:18:57

no one's giving any of their personality

00:19:00

because of that reason so I sort of got

00:19:01

it but sort of wanted to create that

00:19:03

middle space where guys could share who

00:19:06

they really are without knowing that

00:19:08

they're not going to be portrayed or if

00:19:10

they say something they regret I can

00:19:12

take it out and like like you say a safe

00:19:14

space for them to be themelves share

00:19:17

their story and um yeah people can

00:19:20

actually see what they're really like

00:19:22

off the field yeah we'll get into um the

00:19:25

watered stuff and um more depth in just

00:19:27

a second but one more coaching question

00:19:28

um what are what are your goals ultimate

00:19:31

goal to be um head or black coach oh I

00:19:34

got asked just the other day I sat down

00:19:35

with uh coach coach's coach and sort of

00:19:40

asked me what my goals were and

00:19:41

something that I really struggled with I

00:19:44

I haven't really got any goals and I

00:19:45

know that's probably uh not a very good

00:19:49

way of going about it but I just feel

00:19:51

like I'm I'm happy to just be in the

00:19:54

game and just continually learn and grow

00:19:57

as a coach and I I haven't really put

00:19:59

any end points on it um I don't know if

00:20:02

I want to be a head coach I don't know

00:20:03

if I don't even really know what the

00:20:06

difference in that role is in terms of

00:20:08

the big picture stuff like at the moment

00:20:10

I'm doing my role and I I'm enjoying

00:20:12

that um I love having a lot of input on

00:20:15

the rugby and I know as you become a

00:20:17

head coach you sort of move away from

00:20:18

that and it's a bit more big picture

00:20:20

stuff so um in terms of goals I I

00:20:23

haven't really got any I'd love to be um

00:20:25

in Christ Church and with the Crusaders

00:20:27

for as long as I can especially as a

00:20:29

kids go through school and um yeah and

00:20:33

that's sort of as far as I've left it at

00:20:35

the moment I suppose it's a hard thing

00:20:37

to um have goals or plan for because

00:20:40

there's a lot of moving Parts isn't

00:20:41

there yeah you know well coaching you

00:20:43

can be gone like you've seen it in the

00:20:45

international game with um Dave reny

00:20:48

Eddie Jones you can you can be doing the

00:20:50

best job you you can and then next week

00:20:53

you're gone so um that's sort of why I'm

00:20:56

so Keen to continue my podcast in the

00:20:58

back ground so if I ever did get sacked

00:21:00

if we did go 0 and 12 or whatever and I

00:21:03

and I am gone um I've got something to

00:21:05

fall back on and I'm not having to move

00:21:07

the family to Japan or France to

00:21:11

continue the coaching career I can um if

00:21:14

the family is happy and settled in choss

00:21:16

ships then I can stay there and

00:21:18

potentially go down that that route yeah

00:21:20

yeah I love that hey so the the game

00:21:22

tonight after the game do you um do you

00:21:23

mix and mingle with the the blues

00:21:25

players you all get together and hang

00:21:27

out a bit or not really yeah will

00:21:28

usually go into their changing rooms and

00:21:30

just have a quick bear with them and

00:21:32

it's usually about 10 15 minutes have a

00:21:34

quick catch up and then on the bus back

00:21:36

to the hotel and um yeah probably have a

00:21:41

bear in the team room together some guys

00:21:43

will go out and some guys will just sit

00:21:46

there and um have a good yarn oh that's

00:21:48

cool maybe you can do me a favor and um

00:21:51

pass us um radex Nutrition Shake A

00:21:53

Bottle onto Dalton P look at that um he

00:21:56

was um he we were going backwards and

00:21:58

forwards cheers um we were going

00:22:00

backwards and forwards actually you can

00:22:02

keep that [ __ ] do Kelly do he um he was

00:22:06

supposed to come on the podcast and we

00:22:08

were going backwards and forwards and

00:22:09

then um on the the day before uh he

00:22:12

pulled out and he goes oh sorry family

00:22:14

member in hospital or something and then

00:22:15

I saw on Instagram later that day and it

00:22:16

was CR

00:22:20

day but do do you get that much with

00:22:23

your podcast like yeah I find that's the

00:22:25

hardest thing about it day like like

00:22:27

wrangling guests and you know getting

00:22:29

someone to commit I haven't been um

00:22:32

stood down for crate day that often but

00:22:35

it's a fear if he just said to me mate

00:22:37

I'm sorry I've got a bit offer I would

00:22:39

be good with that yeah but um there has

00:22:42

been the odd time where we've got

00:22:44

especially um different time zones and

00:22:46

things when I'm online and that stuff

00:22:49

around oh sorry I thought it was

00:22:51

yesterday or today and things like that

00:22:53

have happened or not pushing record was

00:22:56

quite a common mistake early on and my

00:22:58

podcasting career which was something

00:23:01

that still gives me anxiety when I can't

00:23:03

see the red light I'm not sure whether I

00:23:05

push recording I like want to get up and

00:23:07

check without losing the flow of the

00:23:08

combo so there's been a few moments like

00:23:12

that but nothing too major yeah so um

00:23:14

why did you start what L you you started

00:23:16

when you were still playing or no no so

00:23:19

I just had um correct or hip surgery

00:23:22

which I assumed was going to be career

00:23:25

ending um and you you were played with

00:23:27

um hip trouble for years eh yeah

00:23:29

basically my whole career I was that was

00:23:31

probably the thing that I struggled with

00:23:33

the most I had um hip surgery on both of

00:23:36

my hips when I was about 24 got me

00:23:39

through till I think I retired at 31 and

00:23:43

um yeah that was it was a pretty decent

00:23:46

surgery and the surgeon said it was like

00:23:48

the worst I've had seen so I knew I was

00:23:51

going to struggle to come back from that

00:23:53

so sort of um kick my butt into gear

00:23:56

around what I was going to do Post rugby

00:23:59

and throughout my career I always sort

00:24:01

of felt like coaching was going to be it

00:24:03

but then I had that discussion around I

00:24:06

didn't want to keep chasing that

00:24:07

coaching dream so um what else could I

00:24:10

fall on I wanted to start a podcast for

00:24:14

that for the reasons that I spoke about

00:24:16

before and um I also thought about like

00:24:21

working with younger players Academy so

00:24:23

I got a job at Nelson college coaching

00:24:25

the rugby class there for um a couple of

00:24:28

years which I really enjoyed as well so

00:24:30

I just sort of tried three different

00:24:32

things and um just felt like which one

00:24:35

was going to take over and coaching took

00:24:38

over the quickest so that's how it

00:24:40

basically ended there yeah but why the

00:24:43

why the podcast though why did you um

00:24:44

gravitate towards that like were you

00:24:46

were you like um in the Hurricanes

00:24:48

environment were you like a like a

00:24:49

jokester or a prankster you did the

00:24:52

other guys like tell you you should

00:24:53

start a podcast or you'd be good at it

00:24:54

or yeah I did um I used to do the info

00:24:57

committee which um

00:24:59

it is basically a way to get the young

00:25:02

guys up the front of the bus to

00:25:05

embarrass them and make them give

00:25:07

information about the city that you're

00:25:08

going to um and for some reason I'd get

00:25:12

that every team I went to but I re I

00:25:15

really didn't enjoy it so I thought

00:25:18

about how I could sort of turn it around

00:25:20

so I started just U making these little

00:25:22

voice packages through Garage Band just

00:25:25

push record and record my voice and sort

00:25:29

of um take the piss out of everyone else

00:25:31

on the bus so instead of it everyone

00:25:33

taking the piss out of me standing at

00:25:35

the front of the bus I turned it around

00:25:37

on them took my little audio piece up

00:25:40

plugged it in and then rinsed the rest

00:25:42

of the bus and part of things of that

00:25:45

was a lot of pranks which I released a

00:25:47

few of those through my podcast in the

00:25:50

the early days and um a few moments like

00:25:54

that but um a few I was really enjoying

00:25:58

s's podcast at the time I was living in

00:26:00

Japan and I was getting real into

00:26:02

podcasts um and I was enjoying his one

00:26:05

cuz I was learning stuff about players

00:26:06

that I'd played with for a long time

00:26:09

that I didn't know and I thought far out

00:26:11

that's that's quite cool getting that

00:26:12

Insight from players and and I messaged

00:26:15

him and he thought he I remember him

00:26:18

saying like he felt like I should be

00:26:20

doing the podcast more than him and I

00:26:23

knew how time constraint how much time

00:26:26

constraint he had on his um busy life

00:26:29

with the All Blacks and it was going to

00:26:30

be hard for him to continually produce

00:26:33

episodes so I thought it was a there's a

00:26:35

bit of a space there for me to jump into

00:26:38

and um gave it a crack and had a goal of

00:26:41

sort of doing seven episodes cuz I heard

00:26:44

that the average podcast doesn't last

00:26:45

seven episodes yeah it's an actual thing

00:26:47

called podcast fatigue yeah like seven

00:26:50

seems so little to have fatigue but um

00:26:54

it's a real thing you go through a lot

00:26:55

of them and there's less than seven on

00:26:57

them and you're like far out okay get to

00:26:59

seven and see how I'm going and reassess

00:27:01

and I was really enjoying it really

00:27:03

enjoying the

00:27:04

conversations um getting a lot of good

00:27:07

feedback from them which is which helps

00:27:10

um and then yeah just sort of try to

00:27:13

stay consistent with it and I think I'm

00:27:16

up to about 240 episodes now and amazing

00:27:19

still just loving it yeah no it's it's

00:27:23

incredible what you've done I I suppose

00:27:24

the podcast fatigue thing it's because

00:27:26

people start and you know you're putting

00:27:27

it's quite a bit of work for a little

00:27:29

reward and you look at the analytics and

00:27:31

the 20 people listening whatever I

00:27:33

suppose you just think what am I doing

00:27:35

with my time did you did you have quite

00:27:37

good numbers early on or was it mainly

00:27:39

just your teammates and things I had

00:27:41

nothing to compare it to I think that

00:27:43

was sort of the beauty of it like I

00:27:46

might have had maybe 200 downloads the

00:27:48

first episode and I I'm like was that

00:27:51

good or like this seems pretty good 200

00:27:53

people have listened to a hour chat but

00:27:56

then um as you go through it builds

00:27:59

pretty quick and I was pretty lucky that

00:28:01

I had access to some high-profile

00:28:04

players and um even the the Hurricanes

00:28:07

social media page used to share a lot of

00:28:09

my early episodes which gave it a pretty

00:28:12

good Kickstart initially and um I felt

00:28:15

like the growth of it was just going

00:28:17

really quickly at a early rate and um I

00:28:20

remember getting D CO's on quite early

00:28:23

and that was a big one for the podcast

00:28:25

we hadn't really spoken on a podcast

00:28:28

before or opened up about what he was

00:28:31

really like off the field and people see

00:28:33

the grub that he is on the field and the

00:28:35

gu's always fighting and starting niggle

00:28:37

but um such a good man off the field and

00:28:40

I felt like I was able to um shine a

00:28:43

light on that yeah shine a light on that

00:28:44

and he really enjoyed it and um he got

00:28:47

lots of good feedback I got good

00:28:48

feedback and the numbers were really

00:28:49

good on that one so I felt like that was

00:28:50

a bit of a kickart for me and

00:28:53

high-profile black like that um always

00:28:55

helps yeah I'm I'm intrigued by Dane KL

00:28:58

so yeah I mean you're a teammate with

00:28:59

them you played with them for you many

00:29:01

many seasons of Super Rugby I even had I

00:29:04

had been o'keef on the podcast last year

00:29:05

the r um and he loves Coy yeah he's he's

00:29:10

a riff is is he a good dude oh he is

00:29:12

he's a champion he's he's one of the

00:29:14

best um such a good man off the field

00:29:17

but like last year this was the first

00:29:20

time I was on the other side of the

00:29:21

fence coaching the Crusaders and man

00:29:25

watching him from the other side I see

00:29:27

why guys get so annoyed at him or why

00:29:29

they don't like him because you watch

00:29:30

him he's an absolute piss he Fe played

00:29:33

of him he he got a lot of our guys

00:29:35

rattled that game and they won that game

00:29:37

so I still think there's a little art in

00:29:39

there in what he does um a lot of guys

00:29:42

these days are probably too offended

00:29:44

because you mates with a lot of the guys

00:29:45

and it's a the rugby Community is quite

00:29:47

a small one but um when he's on the

00:29:50

field he doesn't care what people think

00:29:52

he's he's just out there to Wi he's such

00:29:54

a competitor

00:29:55

but and he'll be the first guy to go sh

00:29:58

shake your hand afterwards and um just

00:30:00

that was all part of the game but a

00:30:02

gamesmanship oh who's that um who's the

00:30:04

Argentinian guy oh Pablo mat so yeah

00:30:07

yeah so what's this what's the there's

00:30:09

some story there so he played with the

00:30:10

Crusaders for a bit yeah yeah and then

00:30:13

so when the All Blacks played

00:30:14

Argentina um yeah what did Coy say to

00:30:17

him um yeah he was just really into him

00:30:21

I think we' lost they lost the game

00:30:22

earlier and um yeah he wasn't too happy

00:30:26

with how that game went and he sort of

00:30:28

had a plan to go out there and get stuck

00:30:30

into him and try and get the result

00:30:32

which he did and um there after the game

00:30:34

he obviously offended Pablo um probably

00:30:39

a little bit too much and he wasn't

00:30:41

willing to accept the the apology after

00:30:44

the game so I think he gave him a little

00:30:45

push which the vi the cameras um got

00:30:49

hold of and got blown out of proportion

00:30:52

a little bit but I managed to talk to

00:30:53

Pablo after that and he was all good

00:30:55

about it and once I spoke to him so it

00:30:57

was

00:30:58

yeah so and then do you hear from Coy

00:31:00

after that nah no I didn't um thankfully

00:31:04

I'm not sure how you would have felt

00:31:06

about um so what's your preparation

00:31:09

process like I I umum I love your I love

00:31:12

your interview style like it just seems

00:31:14

um I don't I don't know like I'm I'm

00:31:16

sort of like in a in a like learning

00:31:18

period at the moment where I I can do so

00:31:19

much preparation but I feel like I need

00:31:21

to pull back and do if anything a little

00:31:23

bit less CU you want to have that sort

00:31:24

of organic conversation which I feel

00:31:26

like you've nailed right you're the

00:31:27

wizard did it um I was going to ask you

00:31:29

the same thing for me I'm just I like to

00:31:32

make a bit of a plan I I'll do a little

00:31:33

bit of research around if there any real

00:31:36

key areas that might be of interest or

00:31:39

um parts of their career that really

00:31:41

jump out might be a long-term injury or

00:31:44

um a real highlight or being dropped or

00:31:47

an incident or something that uh might

00:31:49

be a point which they really struggled

00:31:51

with or really kickstarted their career

00:31:53

but other than that I write down a bit

00:31:55

of a plan and then just try and put the

00:31:58

notes to the side and just see where it

00:32:01

ends up and more often than not it goes

00:32:04

you cover all the things that you wanted

00:32:06

to cover anyway and always try and end

00:32:09

with some questions which a lot will

00:32:11

come from the Instagram but if there's

00:32:13

key points that I've miss that I wanted

00:32:14

to um bring up in the episode I'll make

00:32:17

a question up and um try and get that in

00:32:19

there so you're at the time we were

00:32:20

recording this your most recent

00:32:21

episode's been um will Jordan who's one

00:32:23

of the one of the old black stars one of

00:32:25

the I think top Tri Store Tri score at

00:32:28

the World Cup last year one of the Best

00:32:29

Wingers in the world um do you when you

00:32:32

have like a big star like him on like a

00:32:34

a a contracted all black player like is

00:32:36

there red tape to go through like do you

00:32:37

need to get clearance from the nzu or um

00:32:40

with him there wasn't um cuz he's not in

00:32:43

all black camp at the moment I think

00:32:45

they're um more than happy for me to

00:32:47

just have the conversation um when I had

00:32:50

Sam Kane on before going into the Irish

00:32:53

series

00:32:54

then I did have to send that through to

00:32:57

the all black media manager and she had

00:32:59

to listen to it and um take out a few

00:33:02

bits which could have um caused a bit of

00:33:06

um unnecessary pressure on the group so

00:33:10

um yeah there has been moments getting

00:33:13

the big names on that I have to sort of

00:33:15

be a bit more careful with what I'm

00:33:16

saying or asking or what they're saying

00:33:18

so the edit button becomes a little bit

00:33:20

more crucial but um nine times out of 10

00:33:23

it's it's fine and we just generally Let

00:33:26

It Go yeah who what's your have you had

00:33:28

a favorite episode what would your

00:33:29

favorite episode be oh I get that

00:33:32

question asked a lot it's so hard cuz

00:33:34

everyone's so unique and everyone's got

00:33:35

such different different stories I think

00:33:38

a few that were really powerful was um

00:33:41

Michael fofa who um I played with at the

00:33:44

hurricanes and had um spinal injury

00:33:47

where he was paralyzed um that was one

00:33:50

that sort of hit me pretty hard cuz it

00:33:52

was a good mate who was such a tough

00:33:55

Warrior who playing game of rugby that

00:33:58

we all love is just one moment wasn't

00:34:00

even a freak accident or anything it was

00:34:03

just a normal collision and next minute

00:34:06

he can't um can't walk and he's got to

00:34:09

go through this whole process of coming

00:34:11

back from that and the struggles that he

00:34:13

went through and he's now walking and

00:34:15

doing really well so it was had a bit of

00:34:17

a um happy ending towards the end but

00:34:21

that was one that sort of hit me that I

00:34:22

always remember like it was awesome to

00:34:24

get him on and hear him talk about that

00:34:27

yeah you you've um yeah I I get asked

00:34:29

that question as well and I'm I don't

00:34:31

know why I even asked you because I'm

00:34:32

[ __ ] at answering I think I have thing

00:34:34

called like recency bias so it's like

00:34:38

you done whoever you've done in the past

00:34:40

stands out um who who would your dream

00:34:43

guest be oh that's hard too

00:34:47

um I don't know really um Richie would

00:34:51

you want to do Richie you i' love to get

00:34:53

Richie um he's lives in Christ Church

00:34:55

he's he's someone that everyone like man

00:34:58

the whole nation love that guy same with

00:35:00

Dan Carter like everyone loves those two

00:35:03

and they see them as the sort of

00:35:05

Pinnacle of the game so it' be cool to

00:35:07

get both of those on at some point um

00:35:09

don't know if you get much out of Richie

00:35:11

though no I'm not too sure all you sort

00:35:14

of put the mic in front of him um yeah I

00:35:17

think sometimes it's the guys who aren't

00:35:20

the big names are often the have the

00:35:22

most to share most to share like most

00:35:24

people know I know those two would

00:35:25

probably get the most downloads but um

00:35:28

in terms of the actual story like a lot

00:35:31

of people would have seen Dan Carter's

00:35:33

book or read as um I've seen his movie

00:35:36

or read his book and um there's a lot of

00:35:40

guys out there who have some incredible

00:35:42

stories who never get the opportunity to

00:35:44

share it so I think it's probably more

00:35:46

down that route than the other way so um

00:35:50

but I know that people love the big

00:35:52

names and the numbers will reflect that

00:35:54

yeah yeah it's I find that as well it's

00:35:57

kind of an ey rolling thing because some

00:35:58

of the um like hien gems I call it

00:36:01

actually the best episodes um but if

00:36:03

it's not a no one name they just don't

00:36:04

get the same numbers yeah that reminds

00:36:07

me of an interaction we had so you had

00:36:08

um who's the the uh soccer player from

00:36:11

Wellington the football oh poor I

00:36:13

thought Paul Eiffel yes you had Paul

00:36:14

Eiffel on and he he talked about his

00:36:16

gambling addiction and other other

00:36:17

demons and it was uh such a powerful

00:36:20

episode and I hadn't listened to the

00:36:22

episode but I was in Wellington at a

00:36:23

cafe and I read it in the Dominion Post

00:36:26

um so me from my commercial radio

00:36:28

background I was like [ __ ] good on James

00:36:30

this is a really good exposure for his

00:36:31

podcast I messed you like bro this is a

00:36:33

real Co and you were you were salty

00:36:35

about it yeah I was gutted and why I've

00:36:38

always found like as soon as or it was

00:36:41

more the way the story was portrayed

00:36:43

around um Paul Eiffel um risks his

00:36:47

career for gambling on himself and like

00:36:51

I

00:36:52

think what Paul did was share his story

00:36:55

he he was really vulnerable around what

00:36:58

he'd been through and he was there to

00:37:00

help others around if you're going

00:37:02

through a gambling problem ways to sort

00:37:04

of get out of it I know it's a really

00:37:06

common problem in in the game at the

00:37:08

moment but then the way it was portrayed

00:37:10

was all about him and investigation into

00:37:13

him gambling on himself and asking the

00:37:17

the a league um CEO whether they were

00:37:20

aware of him bitting on himself and it

00:37:22

just went down a the route that I I

00:37:25

didn't want to see it go and I know Paul

00:37:27

was wasn't too happy about it and I just

00:37:29

feel like every time the media get hold

00:37:31

of Articles it can blow it out um out of

00:37:34

context and um I think I said to you at

00:37:37

the time like I'd rather less downloads

00:37:39

than um exposure that is going to take

00:37:43

away from guys being themselves I want

00:37:46

guys to come on being able to share

00:37:49

without feeling like oh if I say this

00:37:52

this is probably going to be a headline

00:37:53

tomorrow so there a real Catch 22 around

00:37:56

exposure and um yeah that's great for

00:38:00

the podcast episode the numbers were

00:38:02

better but

00:38:04

um PE guess who are about to come on are

00:38:08

looking at that and thinking okay I'm

00:38:09

definitely not sharing my gambling

00:38:11

addictions or might a little yeah which

00:38:14

is the last thing I want for the podcast

00:38:16

I'd rather those 20 downloads but being

00:38:18

real authentic and open than um a

00:38:21

million downloads and everything's just

00:38:23

closed up yeah yeah when you when you

00:38:25

when I read your M I was like damn it

00:38:27

he's right he's a better person than me

00:38:30

I'm an [ __ ] not it's no wonder

00:38:33

there's so much um mistrust and

00:38:35

mainstream media these days are like

00:38:37

they're just like they snaky like that

00:38:40

they are and you see it in especially in

00:38:41

League I see at the moment like um

00:38:43

anything they can to blow out a story um

00:38:47

negative more often than not people seem

00:38:50

to click on the negative ones more than

00:38:52

the positive ones so um they're just

00:38:54

going to jump on it and I guess people

00:38:56

feed that too cuz the the ones clicking

00:38:58

on it people love a bit of Goss or a bit

00:39:00

of negative negativity especially on

00:39:02

social media so um yeah something to do

00:39:06

there yeah and what are your goals for

00:39:07

the future with the podcast yeah it's

00:39:09

just to keep trying to chip away at it

00:39:11

in the background while the coaching

00:39:13

continues and then like I said if

00:39:16

there's

00:39:17

um a point in my coaching where I've got

00:39:20

to either choose to move and Coach

00:39:23

somewhere else I'd love to just be able

00:39:24

to um have that option to stay put and

00:39:28

go fulltime like

00:39:29

yourself it's [ __ ] it's a hard grind a

00:39:32

like it's um it's like the iceberg

00:39:34

poster you know people don't see the

00:39:35

stuff that's under the water yeah

00:39:37

there's a lot but you've um you've built

00:39:38

it up to a phenomenal spot and um I know

00:39:40

recently you've been schmoozed by um

00:39:42

media work so they're doing some selling

00:39:44

and stuff for you now have you had any

00:39:46

pressure from anyone to change the name

00:39:48

no I haven't I've um it's it's been a

00:39:51

question that's coming a few times just

00:39:53

from um Instagram but um mainly around

00:39:58

when I get a woman on like do you still

00:40:00

call it what a lad or I've had three

00:40:02

female guests um I need to get more but

00:40:06

um yeah they've all been happy with it

00:40:08

being lad and it's fine what does lad

00:40:11

really mean no one really knows just

00:40:13

sort of like a good person um or yeah

00:40:17

absolutely it's the highest

00:40:19

compliment and um who who did you little

00:40:22

jingle yeah is that you singing though

00:40:24

no it's definitely not me singing I'm a

00:40:26

terrible singer um I put it out to my

00:40:29

social media cuz a few people mention

00:40:32

that you need a jingle I didn't start

00:40:33

with one and thought it could be quite

00:40:35

cool I remember hearing that water Man

00:40:38

song and yeah from V yeah salt pepper I

00:40:41

think it is and then I went

00:40:45

um I just changed the lyrics started

00:40:47

saying it to myself I like oh that could

00:40:49

be quite cool and then I just put it on

00:40:50

the um Instagram I tried a couple of

00:40:54

guys off Fiverr just to sort of come up

00:40:56

with their own one and

00:40:58

oh they were terrible um I didn't didn't

00:41:01

give those a go and then checked it on

00:41:03

Instagram and Alex Malcolm who does the

00:41:06

legend of Marty Banks page he um reached

00:41:09

out and said that he would do it and

00:41:11

Alex hmer I think does the vocals and um

00:41:15

yeah it's been a catchy little tune and

00:41:17

um SED well it's pry great um okay let's

00:41:20

um focus on your rugby plan career for a

00:41:23

bit so um so you're born in Oakland um

00:41:26

you moved to Nelson when you're eight

00:41:27

yeah so you so you consider yourself a

00:41:30

nelsonian set of thing yeah pretty much

00:41:33

um well I like remember my upbringing in

00:41:36

ockland I was only playing soccer up

00:41:38

into ockland so but had a lot of good

00:41:40

times living there I was living in mongy

00:41:42

Bridge um down there um spent a lot of

00:41:45

time in the backyard with my brother and

00:41:48

sometimes my sister and um a lot of

00:41:51

sports and um rugby and racing were big

00:41:55

parts of our upbringing and um yeah once

00:41:58

we moved down to Nelson I guess new

00:42:00

friend group gave rugby a crack but um I

00:42:03

consider Nelson home um well crush it

00:42:07

should be my home now but Nelson will

00:42:08

probably always be home for me yeah and

00:42:11

who who were your Idols growing up so

00:42:13

you're 35 now yeah 35 so who would it

00:42:16

have been like um was it like Cali and T

00:42:18

yeah Christian Ken I had a weird

00:42:19

obsession with them like it was probably

00:42:21

a little bit overboard I've got um

00:42:24

remember spending my pocket money on his

00:42:26

posters and

00:42:27

what always watches games and

00:42:30

um yeah I remember all blacks coming to

00:42:33

Nelson one time and I've got some quite

00:42:35

almost creepy photos of me just like

00:42:38

just different angles of them not me

00:42:40

even in it just like going around with

00:42:42

my camera just taking photos of him so

00:42:45

um I used to I I used to just love the

00:42:48

style that he played he was such a

00:42:50

incredible player to watch and even um

00:42:54

there's a horse called Christian Ken as

00:42:55

well which I had a real session with as

00:42:57

well he was my favorite horse so

00:42:59

remember getting up and watching him um

00:43:02

late at night sometimes to run bigger

00:43:03

Aussie races so um yeah I I just love

00:43:07

Christian Ken have you have you had him

00:43:09

on your podcast yet no I haven't he's

00:43:11

probably a he's probably a dream guest

00:43:12

for me um same here like me and him um

00:43:17

have got history like we used to kick

00:43:18

around in py quite a bit and spend New

00:43:20

Years together for a few years in a row

00:43:22

and I I've asked him to come on several

00:43:24

times and he he keeps saying I don't

00:43:26

think I've got anything interesting to

00:43:27

say which is the most cly answer ever

00:43:30

right so [ __ ] modest actually Jeff

00:43:33

Wilson's another one he he came up to me

00:43:34

and um a lounge at the airport and he

00:43:36

just said hey M I just want you to know

00:43:37

the um the the podcast you did with my

00:43:39

old coach John Hart It's [ __ ] amazing

00:43:42

and I'm like oh thanks Goldie I said do

00:43:43

you want to come on and he's like

00:43:45

absolutely

00:43:47

not you got these these guys which who

00:43:49

have just got um just this Rich tapestry

00:43:52

of her life and so many good Yarns to

00:43:53

share and they just don't think they

00:43:55

they don't think they've got anything to

00:43:56

say you're good at recruiting though

00:43:58

aren't you like you do not miss an

00:43:59

opportunity

00:44:01

to offer that don't don't

00:44:04

youle a bit hard like if I was in your

00:44:06

shows assistant coach I'd be like going

00:44:08

around the bus like yeah do you need to

00:44:11

have some sort of Separation like that

00:44:13

like how do you do the guys in the the

00:44:16

team that you work with do they come to

00:44:18

you and say oh James I'd love to do the

00:44:19

podcast or uh no they generally if I

00:44:22

know they listen to it it's probably a

00:44:24

good chance that they'll be Keener to

00:44:25

come on than if they don't yeah um for

00:44:28

me it's time like I haven't been I've

00:44:30

only been able to call one episode um

00:44:33

this whole season um in season's just

00:44:36

too hard to be able to get any episodes

00:44:38

recorded so it's all banked from

00:44:41

pre-season and we've got a by week in

00:44:43

two weeks where I'll try and get another

00:44:45

four or five in and that will hopefully

00:44:47

get me through to the end of Super Rugby

00:44:50

season and then um post Super Rugby

00:44:52

season I got a bit more time to get one

00:44:55

out a week and um get a few more of the

00:44:57

guys on did did you did you did you ask

00:44:59

Razer or would that have been

00:45:01

inappropriate um I sort of threw it out

00:45:04

there couple times but I knew that he

00:45:07

wasn't too Keen I knew his rule of only

00:45:09

doing one a year and um I knew how much

00:45:12

um grief you were giving him to get on

00:45:14

and I saw his sort of reaction so I knew

00:45:16

that I didn't want to take him down down

00:45:18

there so I sort of I've just sort of

00:45:20

left I don't really want people on who

00:45:23

don't aren't Keen to come on you know

00:45:25

like it's I'd rather someone who's Keen

00:45:27

to share and or got a story to tell and

00:45:30

um an opportunity for someone to to be

00:45:33

themselves where and once you once

00:45:35

you're forcing someone on they're like

00:45:37

oh how long's this going to be it's just

00:45:38

sort of kills the whole basle of it the

00:45:40

whole flow of it yeah yeah I agree um oh

00:45:44

God yeah you're you're such a better

00:45:46

person than me I need to I'm a [ __ ]

00:45:50

Badger David David ner on the podcast

00:45:52

last week and I went back through our

00:45:54

DMS and it was like I I I I wore the

00:45:57

down the nicest guy in New Zealand Sport

00:46:00

and I beat him um okay so uh with your

00:46:03

rugby how much of it was um hard work

00:46:05

versus natural Talent like you you only

00:46:08

played the first 15 in your last couple

00:46:09

of years of school a yeah so you weren't

00:46:11

like a naturally gifted player no I

00:46:13

wasn't like I wasn't making the rck

00:46:15

teams I um was always really small

00:46:19

skinny um

00:46:22

week um so I I knew I was pretty

00:46:26

unlikely to to have a professional rugby

00:46:28

career even though I really wanted it

00:46:31

and I would even tell people I remember

00:46:33

telling my teacher that I was going to

00:46:34

be a professional rugby player and um

00:46:37

it's quite a hard one to sort of back up

00:46:39

when you're not making the school rep

00:46:41

team or anything like she sort of rolls

00:46:43

their eyes at you and you're like oh

00:46:44

it's probably feir you know like um but

00:46:46

I sort of set a goal with in my I had

00:46:50

two years left of school it was that

00:46:52

offseason I set a goal that I was going

00:46:54

to give it a really good crack like um

00:46:57

give it everything I could to try and

00:46:58

make the first 15 and so how old are you

00:47:00

like 15 16 yeah I must have been yeah 15

00:47:04

16 and um got a gym membership for ask

00:47:08

my parents if they could instead of a

00:47:09

Christmas present and birthday present

00:47:11

my birthdays in December to get me a gym

00:47:13

membership um they did that um and just

00:47:17

cuz I knew the reason I wasn't getting

00:47:18

picked a lot of the time was cuz I

00:47:21

wasn't big enough or strong enough so I

00:47:22

knew I had to try and get bigger and

00:47:24

stronger and um I did that I went really

00:47:27

hard at the gym by myself and put a lot

00:47:30

of hours in I was always Naturally Fit

00:47:33

um I was always a good runner but the um

00:47:36

gym sers the things was something that I

00:47:38

really had to work on to you know put on

00:47:41

enough muscle to be able to uh take the

00:47:44

collisions and make the tackles or try

00:47:47

to make the tackles so um yeah and I

00:47:50

realiz that the more I was putting in

00:47:52

the quicker things started happening I

00:47:55

made the first 15 a year earlier than I

00:47:57

was expecting to and the following year

00:47:59

I was Captain and it was just like I

00:48:02

could really feel that all the work that

00:48:04

I was putting in was getting really I

00:48:06

was getting rewarded really quickly so

00:48:09

sort of caught the bug I guess and fish

00:48:12

a cycle of started to put in more and

00:48:14

more work and things started to happen

00:48:17

quicker and

00:48:18

quicker yeah you get that momentum I

00:48:20

suppose you get a taste of it and that's

00:48:21

quite intoxicating but then you you um

00:48:24

like you didn't make the um under 17

00:48:26

team the under 19 team the under 20 team

00:48:29

like why why did you keep going yeah

00:48:32

well like at the time missing out on

00:48:35

that might seem like um a bit of a

00:48:37

setback but for me I was I was so stoked

00:48:39

to be even trialing for it like I was

00:48:43

two years early I was so far off I

00:48:45

couldn't even make the Nelson rep team

00:48:46

now I'm in the frame for one of the best

00:48:49

in the country so um I know I didn't

00:48:52

make the team but that was like a

00:48:53

massive step up for me and I didn't even

00:48:56

I

00:48:57

really feel like I was good enough um at

00:48:59

that stage I remember going to the

00:49:01

trials and you've got Israel dag who was

00:49:04

already playing

00:49:05

NPC and there's me who likes battling

00:49:08

away um just coming out of Nelson

00:49:11

college which wasn't a massive rugby

00:49:13

school at the time so I definitely felt

00:49:15

like I was a little bit out of place and

00:49:18

didn't really feel ready to be um in

00:49:22

that side so I think that definitely

00:49:23

cost me in the end or held me back but

00:49:25

um the confidence that I got from being

00:49:27

around those players and knowing that I

00:49:29

wasn't too far off some of the best

00:49:31

players in the country gave me the

00:49:33

confidence that and I could um give this

00:49:36

a serious crack and that's probably

00:49:37

where I realized that um rugby was going

00:49:40

to be able to be a profession whether

00:49:42

that was having to travel the world and

00:49:44

play smaller clubs but um got on to

00:49:48

Tasman had just formed sort of two years

00:49:50

earlier and gave a pathway for local

00:49:53

kids to be able to progress through and

00:49:56

that's the wor I took did you have a

00:49:58

plan b or no um I was I was studying at

00:50:01

the time it was sort of exercise sport

00:50:03

or Sport Science and um I I just knew I

00:50:06

wanted to be involved in rugby um or in

00:50:09

sport and whether that was a trainer a

00:50:13

nutritionist or like manager or I just

00:50:15

always wanted to be involved in the game

00:50:18

I I just loved it so much and um so I

00:50:21

was sort of doing that on the side just

00:50:23

in case the rugby didn't go well that I

00:50:25

could maybe try and get my foot on the

00:50:27

door that way but thankfully it did all

00:50:30

work out

00:50:31

and were you um yeah it seems like you

00:50:34

put a lot of hard work and so there's

00:50:35

obviously like a little bit of talent

00:50:37

but it's mainly hard work um how how

00:50:40

hard did you work compared to like

00:50:41

others like you had you know I've been

00:50:44

on a bit of a a deep dive the last few

00:50:47

months with um this guy Tim Grover who's

00:50:49

um wrote a book called Relentless and

00:50:50

he's like the the personal trainer of

00:50:52

like Kobe MJ Dwayne Wade you know all

00:50:55

the best and it seems like um all those

00:50:57

guys are just super hardworking like

00:51:00

Kobe Bry will do three workouts a day

00:51:02

instead of two sort of thing were you

00:51:03

the hardest working guy I find that like

00:51:06

such a hard one to know because I don't

00:51:08

really know what other people are doing

00:51:10

but um I definitely felt like um when

00:51:13

I'd go to camps or um whenever we had to

00:51:17

do Fitness testing or strength testing

00:51:20

that um you could tell how hard I work

00:51:23

because of the the rapid growth I was

00:51:25

getting compared to some of the others

00:51:28

so um when I missed out on the New

00:51:31

Zealand 19s because my speed time wasn't

00:51:34

quite strong enough wasn't quite um oh

00:51:37

my speed time wasn't fast enough um so

00:51:40

then that whole sort of year I made sure

00:51:42

that next time I got there that my speed

00:51:45

time was quick enough and then um my

00:51:48

fitness was fine my strength was fine my

00:51:50

speed time was fine in that 20s year and

00:51:52

then it was just down to I remember Dave

00:51:54

reny saying mate you've done everything

00:51:56

you can to make this team you're just

00:51:57

you're just not good enough and that was

00:51:59

like that was what team was that was

00:52:01

that h no that was um New Zealand under

00:52:03

20 so the following year like I'd done

00:52:05

everything I I felt like I could to be

00:52:08

selected um but then I think it just

00:52:10

came down to me my mental stay around

00:52:13

not feeling like I was um I deserved to

00:52:16

be there and I didn't have a great trial

00:52:18

and and it was refreshing from Dave

00:52:20

renie to tell me that cuz I felt it as

00:52:22

well and um yeah but I I I loved how he

00:52:26

said that um I'd done everything and he

00:52:29

he really wanted to pick me for that

00:52:30

team just cuz he'd seen the work that

00:52:32

I'd put in but um yeah as a rugby player

00:52:36

I guess that's the most important thing

00:52:37

to know what what do you think that was

00:52:39

in hindsight was that um like a imposter

00:52:41

syndrome or is it a like lack of

00:52:43

confidence or self-belief what is it I

00:52:45

think it was a little bit of an imposter

00:52:47

syndrome around how have I gone from not

00:52:50

being able to make the Nelson rep teams

00:52:53

to now being in the conversation with

00:52:56

guys playing NPC I I definitely felt

00:52:58

that I didn't feel like I understood the

00:53:02

game as a first five

00:53:05

um confidently enough to be able to

00:53:08

demand these guys on the calls and

00:53:10

things like that so I definitely felt a

00:53:12

little bit out of place and it was

00:53:13

something I struggled with early in my

00:53:16

career but um I think all young teens go

00:53:18

through it like it's a big job to be

00:53:20

able to tell an all black or someone

00:53:23

what you think is the right call and um

00:53:26

your decision making in that space so

00:53:29

you see it a lot with the young guys

00:53:30

coming through around how hard that can

00:53:32

be and um can affect your game and you

00:53:35

debled with sevens for a bit he you in

00:53:38

the sevens frame with um Gordon titens

00:53:40

as coach yes I missed out on a Super

00:53:42

Rugby side so did a sevens Tournament

00:53:45

down in Queenstown back in the Glory

00:53:47

Days with um tasmin we went all right

00:53:50

and titch picked me to go to a New

00:53:52

Zealand Camp which was um yeah an

00:53:56

exciting opportunity I'd heard a lot

00:53:57

about Sir Gordon titens around some of

00:54:00

his trainings and how hard they were and

00:54:04

there's definitely no GPS um

00:54:06

restrictions back there like there are

00:54:08

these days it was it was run until you

00:54:11

collapse basically it was what's what's

00:54:13

a GPS restriction oh like um nowadays

00:54:16

everyone's got a GPS in their in their

00:54:18

shirt so if they get over a certain

00:54:20

amount of kilometers they become a

00:54:22

injury risk and they're taking out of

00:54:24

training and um right yeah you've got to

00:54:27

manage the loads pretty pretty

00:54:29

significantly but um he another

00:54:33

conversation he didn't he love making

00:54:35

people vomit yeah I would imagine so and

00:54:38

pass out and like some of the testing

00:54:41

was was brutal you'd often do a beat

00:54:43

test straight into a phosphate test and

00:54:45

then endless games of sevens with 80 60

00:54:49

40s which is run to the 80 back to 60 40

00:54:52

m and um yeah you just run and run and

00:54:55

run thank I was naturally

00:54:58

quite aerobically fit so I didn't

00:55:01

struggle too much with that side of

00:55:03

things so I probably found it not as

00:55:05

hard as a lot of guys going in there

00:55:07

especially um some of the island guys

00:55:09

who I know have been there before and

00:55:11

just wanted to walk away first test and

00:55:15

um the thing with I've always struggled

00:55:17

with the contact Fitness so like having

00:55:18

to tackle and do repeated tackles or

00:55:21

wrestle and that sort of thing so the

00:55:24

running side of things wasn't too bad

00:55:25

for me who who who was in that um seven

00:55:27

Squad with you like any any names you

00:55:29

can drop oh it was like DJ Forbes era

00:55:32

tomasi tharma young Charles peer tow was

00:55:36

um someone young Joe Weber Tim Mickelson

00:55:38

Toby Arnold a few guys who are still

00:55:41

floating around so um it was an awesome

00:55:44

group and um a really good culture I

00:55:47

only did two tournaments with them um

00:55:50

and then I took an opportunity up with

00:55:52

the Hurricanes wider Squad so decided to

00:55:55

go down there

00:55:57

path yeah do you remember your first

00:55:59

Super Rugby game um coincidentally from

00:56:01

where you are now as um assistant coach

00:56:03

of the Crusaders it was a Crusaders game

00:56:05

right it was and apparently it was on TV

00:56:06

the other night a lot of guys said that

00:56:08

they they saw it it was a throwback and

00:56:11

I was on the bench I didn't really

00:56:14

remember this one as my debut to be

00:56:15

honest so what year was this um this

00:56:18

would have been

00:56:19

14 10 years ago yeah or 13 maybe yeah I

00:56:23

think it was one of those years oh no it

00:56:26

must

00:56:26

13 um come off the bench U so who who so

00:56:31

was bod playing B was playing okay so he

00:56:34

came off and you came on uh he wouldn't

00:56:37

have come off he never came off so I was

00:56:39

on the bench but I generally come on as

00:56:41

fullback so once um once bod once I

00:56:44

realized that bod was um my competition

00:56:47

for 10 and the guy never really got

00:56:49

injured I sort of had to find another

00:56:53

pathway into the team and for me that

00:56:54

was through fullback and trying to have

00:56:57

a dual playmaker role and um yeah so

00:57:02

unless we were up by Plenty or down by

00:57:05

plenty I was never getting on for B so

00:57:08

there's a lot of games especially early

00:57:09

in my career where I I wouldn't get off

00:57:11

the bench which is always a one of those

00:57:14

feelings where you're like GED but if

00:57:17

the team's had a good win you're happy

00:57:18

for the team but it would have been nice

00:57:20

to get on and you know sort of Play Your

00:57:24

Part in the win as well sometimes you

00:57:25

can be bit awkward sitting The Sheds

00:57:27

after you've just you've prepared all

00:57:30

week for this moment and then you don't

00:57:32

actually get to play it out so yeah

00:57:34

there was um a hell of a game though way

00:57:35

do you do you remember much about it um

00:57:38

not so much but someone reminded me

00:57:40

after watching the um flashback and I

00:57:43

think it was Alti leoa

00:57:46

intercept with a few minutes to go to

00:57:48

seal the game for the Hurricanes am I

00:57:50

right yeah 2928 to the Hurricanes

00:57:53

Crusade is up by 5 with 7 minutes to go

00:57:56

um yeah incredible yeah just a

00:58:00

remarkable game yeah and like there's so

00:58:02

many games that stand out um throughout

00:58:04

my career which like look back on a man

00:58:07

that was they were special moments and I

00:58:10

think that's the beauty of the game it's

00:58:11

so unpredictable and um no matter like

00:58:15

we would have been underdogs that day

00:58:17

like um I know how fight up the

00:58:20

Hurricanes used to get to play against

00:58:22

the Crusaders and it's interesting now

00:58:24

being on the other side of the fence I

00:58:25

felt it last week I saw the p and the

00:58:28

Hurricane's had um playing us down there

00:58:30

so yeah it's interesting yeah everyone

00:58:32

despises the Crusaders and wants to beat

00:58:35

them right yeah such a massive Target so

00:58:37

so that game um your first one Dan and

00:58:41

Richie playing that would have been Dan

00:58:43

and Richie right 2013 2014 yeah it would

00:58:45

have been I think Dan was playing can't

00:58:47

remember Richie um but potentially I

00:58:49

remember playing against him a few times

00:58:52

and um yeah it's always you know seeing

00:58:55

some guys that you idolized growing up

00:58:57

across the other side of the field even

00:59:00

for me like um in my team like having

00:59:03

Conrad Smith M on all these guys who

00:59:06

like I was a massive hurricanes fan

00:59:08

growing up because of Christian Cullen

00:59:09

and I used to idolize these guys and

00:59:12

then you know few years later you're in

00:59:15

the same team with them it's a pretty

00:59:17

surreal

00:59:18

moment that is cool eh that's so cool

00:59:21

did you have I I heard a story about um

00:59:24

you and you and Richie I don't know when

00:59:26

this was um but did you do some like

00:59:29

trainings with the Crusaders there was

00:59:31

something where you you were running

00:59:32

laps and someone said to you you're not

00:59:34

allowed to pass Richie yeah yeah that's

00:59:35

right what's the what's the background

00:59:38

there yeah so I remember I don't know

00:59:40

how old I must have been young but I was

00:59:41

in the tasmin

00:59:43

academy um and was sent down for a week

00:59:47

experience with a few of the tasmin

00:59:49

academy guys to train with the Crusaders

00:59:52

were essentially just holding pads but

00:59:54

jump in the conditioning sessions and

00:59:55

the swimming sessions there was at the

00:59:58

time so I remember one of the ones was

01:00:00

just running around the laps and

01:00:02

remember K fot sort of saying oh no one

01:00:05

overtakes Richie in this drill and I was

01:00:07

in this run I was like okay so I sort of

01:00:10

just running and like I was a naturally

01:00:12

pretty good runner and I always would

01:00:14

back myself in those sort of um

01:00:17

conditioning drills or um runs and I

01:00:21

sort of felt like I I had plenty more

01:00:23

energy to give and I was just sort of

01:00:25

sitting behind rich a little bit scared

01:00:26

to overtake yeah just in case what he

01:00:30

was going to do like whether he' hunt me

01:00:31

down or um yeah and I just got to the

01:00:34

point I had one let to go and I think KH

01:00:37

was he saw that I was I was sort of

01:00:39

cruising and he said just overtake him

01:00:42

and I was like okay I will and I just

01:00:44

sort of put the foot down and just ran

01:00:46

fast and but to be fair I was like 70

01:00:49

kgs and Richie mcco would have been like

01:00:51

a good hundred and something so um yeah

01:00:55

that was that I was a moment that I

01:00:57

always remember like just how weird it

01:00:59

is that I was intimidated to over

01:01:01

overtake someone in a running did did he

01:01:04

say anything about it I I made a way

01:01:06

bigger deal out of it in my head then he

01:01:09

probably didn't give a stu oh no I'm

01:01:10

sure I had to appreciate it like he he

01:01:12

he'd want to be pushed right yeah so if

01:01:15

someone so probably not by a little

01:01:17

skull K way the point to Pro 60 kg yeah

01:01:22

um yeah so um oh when you signed for the

01:01:25

hurricane there like massive sort of

01:01:27

backlash like online and

01:01:29

stuff I read about this somewhere like

01:01:32

on social media like oh who's this guy

01:01:35

oh potentially when I came back um not

01:01:38

so much when I got there I hope because

01:01:40

I was just in the wider Squad no one

01:01:42

really knew who was on the Wiest Squad

01:01:44

um and then I had a pretty good NPC and

01:01:47

then sort of felt like I sort of

01:01:49

deserved my chance when I initially got

01:01:51

named but I did go over to London Irish

01:01:54

and then came back true Japan and bod

01:01:57

had just signed with the

01:01:59

blues um and I signed back with the

01:02:01

hurricanes and there was definitely a

01:02:02

bit of a backlash there oh cuz you cu

01:02:06

the fans maybe thought you weren't good

01:02:07

enough to be bod's replac yeah well like

01:02:09

um Bo who's going to replace bod I guess

01:02:11

what's the big question and then when

01:02:13

when I'm signed it's like oh GED like

01:02:17

that's not he's no B and Barrett so

01:02:20

there's a lot of um comments back on

01:02:22

that so I do remember that and as sort

01:02:24

of the first insight for me around the

01:02:27

social media side of things and how it

01:02:29

can affect you and um because I was

01:02:31

pretty lucky throughout my career that I

01:02:33

was never really a big name I sort of

01:02:36

always went under cover a little bit I

01:02:38

sort

01:02:39

of um the guy who

01:02:41

wouldn't get much praise so then no

01:02:44

one's going to try and knock me down

01:02:47

either cuz you know you're not put on a

01:02:49

pedestal like some players are who are

01:02:51

the ones who generally cop it a lot more

01:02:53

so I was um pretty lucky throughout my

01:02:56

career around the comments and stuff

01:02:58

that i' I'd receive but that was the

01:03:00

first time I was like oh jeez okay I'm

01:03:03

really coing here no one's really happy

01:03:05

that I'm back and um yeah not a great

01:03:08

start when you're stoked to come back to

01:03:10

the team that you you love playing for

01:03:12

and you wanted to try and help but um

01:03:14

everyone's not feeling the same how do

01:03:17

you how do you how do you cope with that

01:03:19

like you are you good at um just like

01:03:21

switching the phone off and not reading

01:03:22

these comments it's it's hard a people

01:03:24

say don't read the comments but it's

01:03:25

[ __ ] difficult I it's almost

01:03:27

impossible because you get you get

01:03:28

tagged in them you get um you know like

01:03:31

it's you have to consciously either get

01:03:35

off social media or if you see an

01:03:38

article or a post stay away from have a

01:03:41

rule around staying away from the

01:03:42

comments cuz that's where it generally

01:03:44

is it's not so much well the media might

01:03:46

have a a piece to say but it's generally

01:03:49

the ones that are in the comments which

01:03:51

get really abusive towards players and

01:03:54

as a coach I can I'm sort of flick

01:03:56

through them now and just read a few and

01:03:59

I think gez that's like so uncalled for

01:04:02

or like out of line he actually was the

01:04:05

team might have voted him as man of the

01:04:06

match how's he coping it like with such

01:04:09

abuse so um yeah it's a fascinating part

01:04:13

of the game these days is around how

01:04:15

players balance that social media and

01:04:17

how they can um CU there's obviously a

01:04:20

lot of good in it but um a lot of

01:04:22

negativity comes from it as well yeah

01:04:24

and and and that's the um thing is that

01:04:26

cuz if you take the good if you read if

01:04:28

you get high on your own Supply you got

01:04:30

to you got to take the negative as well

01:04:32

yeah someone once said that to me around

01:04:34

if you're if you're willing to read the

01:04:36

good stuff you're going to have to be

01:04:37

willing to read the bad stuff and I I

01:04:39

think it's that's so true um if you if

01:04:42

you can't handle the bad stuff stay away

01:04:45

from the good stuff as well cuz you're

01:04:47

you're going to go on an emotional

01:04:48

roller coaster and feel like um one

01:04:51

moment you're you're the best in the

01:04:52

world next minute yeah you're not worthy

01:04:54

of the Jersey so yeah um yeah try and

01:04:58

stay level and stay stay at a nice nice

01:05:02

mow level um to to stay in that right

01:05:05

sweet spot yeah so you ended up we

01:05:08

addressed this at the beginning you

01:05:09

ended up with a couple of itm cup um for

01:05:11

taneki which you were kept on in the

01:05:12

Super Rugby title um the Super Rugby

01:05:15

title with the hurricanes in 2016 then

01:05:17

then you went overseas why did you go

01:05:19

overseas so you made the finals in 2015

01:05:21

you won in 2016 it was like you know the

01:05:24

Hurricanes were almost the C cust of

01:05:27

becoming a dynasty yeah why did you

01:05:29

leave um to be honest it was cuz I

01:05:32

didn't feel like I

01:05:33

was going to keep my spot I felt like I

01:05:38

was um I'd maximized my potential a

01:05:42

little bit um whether that was um really

01:05:45

good self-awareness

01:05:47

or because I didn't back myself enough

01:05:50

I'm I'm not sure I guess people would

01:05:52

have different opinions on that but um

01:05:55

um

01:05:58

2015 there was I think there was an

01:06:01

injury which gave me an opportunity to

01:06:03

play and made the most of that I felt

01:06:06

like had a really good year that year um

01:06:09

managed to keep all blacks off out of

01:06:11

the starting lineup like our back three

01:06:13

was Julian savier Corey Jane nahi Milner

01:06:16

Scutter um Jason Woodward England player

01:06:20

and then myself and somehow I was

01:06:22

managing to start out of that group and

01:06:26

I didn't feel like that was going to

01:06:28

happen for much longer so at the start

01:06:30

of

01:06:32

2016 um our coach Clark lador was

01:06:36

heading over to who's coaching the

01:06:37

Hurricanes now actually was heading over

01:06:39

to London Irish and I mentioned that um

01:06:42

would be quite keen and he sort of teed

01:06:44

that up and we got that deal signed

01:06:46

pretty early in that season um and then

01:06:49

got through the year had a played most

01:06:52

most of the games started in the big

01:06:54

ones and um felt like I was a really big

01:06:56

part of that year and that success and

01:07:00

got to the point where um London Irish

01:07:03

got

01:07:04

relegated so I was going over to the

01:07:07

Championship Rugby now and hurricanes

01:07:10

had won the comp I was starting in the

01:07:13

final um so I tried to get out of my

01:07:16

contract um I wanted to

01:07:18

stay um the hurricane said that they

01:07:21

would match my offer over at London

01:07:23

Irish because that obviously

01:07:27

I I guess they didn't really expect me

01:07:28

to have the year or influence that I had

01:07:30

on the

01:07:31

group um and I didn't expect London

01:07:34

Irish to go down so I tried ringing the

01:07:38

London Irish CEO and telling him that

01:07:41

I'm not going to come which was a

01:07:43

conversation which I've never been so

01:07:45

nervous for like really I was sweating I

01:07:48

wasn't sure how he was going to take it

01:07:51

um yeah I tried to go down the the

01:07:54

family um I just had a young son he was

01:07:57

sort of 3 months old and just thought it

01:08:00

might have been too much to move to the

01:08:01

other side of the world even though that

01:08:04

wasn't a huge part that was sort of

01:08:06

the the way that I thought might be my

01:08:08

best chance to get out of jail get out

01:08:10

of jail um but he basically said mate

01:08:14

you're no chance I'll see you on Monday

01:08:16

and I like okay okay I'll see you Monday

01:08:19

and never spoke about the conversation

01:08:21

just left that it's at and headed over

01:08:24

there and I love my time over there like

01:08:27

um London's such a cool part of the

01:08:30

world and so busy and got to travel the

01:08:33

world and plan a different competition

01:08:35

meet so many new people and um yeah I've

01:08:38

got no regrets at the end is it good

01:08:40

money with those International contracts

01:08:41

when you play overseas for yeah it is um

01:08:44

in

01:08:45

pounds was was on

01:08:48

250,000 F like half a million New

01:08:50

Zealand yeah but once you get texted

01:08:53

it's um like your tax rate's about 50%

01:08:57

as well so you get hit pretty hard which

01:08:59

is something I didn't really realize at

01:09:01

the time when you like it sounds good

01:09:03

and I suppose you got to pay agents and

01:09:06

yeah you got all your fees and or the

01:09:07

agent fee is paid by the club but right

01:09:11

um accommodation in London is

01:09:14

unbelievable yeah just the the cost of

01:09:16

living over there I mean you can go to a

01:09:18

white cross or whatever and groceries

01:09:19

can be quite cheap um but getting a

01:09:21

coffee or breakfast or just going out

01:09:23

and doing things that cost so much money

01:09:25

up yeah um but have you been quite smart

01:09:27

with your money over the years like did

01:09:28

you finish as a player with um like a

01:09:31

you know a good sort of [ __ ] yeah I think

01:09:32

that was something like I don't know how

01:09:35

or why but I was really conscious with

01:09:38

my money like um bought my first

01:09:41

property from a wider Squad contract so

01:09:45

a wider Squad contract was about 25,000

01:09:48

a year so I lived at home for a long

01:09:50

time saved a lot of lot of my income I

01:09:53

wasn't a big spender um um hated wasting

01:09:57

money on the purse which a lot of guys

01:09:59

especially young will go and buy rounds

01:10:02

and rounds I guess um copped a bit of

01:10:05

flack for that about you know B tight G

01:10:07

pockets and all those names but in the

01:10:10

long run I've I've got no regrets about

01:10:12

how much money I um save from not buying

01:10:16

those $200 rounds every time you you're

01:10:19

going out more in multiple times so um

01:10:23

yeah I I finished my Rugby mortgage free

01:10:26

um so um three investment properties um

01:10:32

so I feel like I'm in a pretty good

01:10:34

space to um continue on but um yeah I

01:10:39

was I was really anxious about coming to

01:10:41

the end of my Rugby career because I

01:10:42

wasn't sure what I was going to do and I

01:10:45

almost had that rugby time frame as

01:10:48

that's the end of my career I want to be

01:10:50

in a situation

01:10:52

where um I can not retire but I didn't

01:10:57

want real Financial pressure coming to

01:10:59

the end of my my Rugby cuz I knew how

01:11:02

hard that transition was or is for a lot

01:11:04

of guys and as soon as Financial

01:11:06

pressure comes into that as well it's

01:11:09

just um a disaster hear how many guys um

01:11:13

relationships end um depression all

01:11:16

those all those things come in with that

01:11:20

transition and I think that financial

01:11:22

piece is such a big one cuz you're

01:11:23

coming you finish your career at

01:11:24

probably

01:11:26

the high of your financial high of your

01:11:29

um Peak financially and then all of a

01:11:31

sudden you're starting from square one

01:11:33

and if you've blown all that cash and

01:11:35

you've got nothing to fall back on um I

01:11:38

can see how people stress out cuz it's

01:11:41

it's living's expensive especially with

01:11:43

kids and um a family to provide for so

01:11:47

um yeah I'm pretty lucky with um how I

01:11:49

how I did it yeah and so that's

01:11:52

inspirational by the way and thanks for

01:11:54

being so open about about about that

01:11:55

like I I think that's really cool like

01:11:57

to to end pretty much on your own terms

01:12:00

with um you know like a [ __ ] and stuff

01:12:02

that's that's really awesome um yeah how

01:12:04

was your mental health after you

01:12:05

finished cuz I suppose you're sort of

01:12:07

almost defined by being a player in a

01:12:08

way aren't you it's a big part of your

01:12:10

identity yeah it is and I I've been

01:12:12

super lucky with um or yeah lucky might

01:12:17

be the right word or might not be but

01:12:19

how my transition worked I I like look

01:12:22

back at it I'm so grateful with how it

01:12:25

went I couldn't have planned it any

01:12:26

better really like you've got so much

01:12:28

anxiety leading up to it like what am I

01:12:31

going to do next you can't really start

01:12:33

something else until you're until you

01:12:36

have finished um and for me it

01:12:39

was one minute a player next minute I'm

01:12:43

having surgery Co hits Carlos Spencer

01:12:47

leaves the Hurricanes Jason Holland

01:12:49

asked me if I can fill in for Carlos

01:12:52

Spencer for the rest of the season so

01:12:54

this sort of 6 weeks left to go on the

01:12:58

season I've gone from player to a coach

01:13:01

essentially

01:13:02

overnight um tried to start my podcast

01:13:05

I've tried to create all these

01:13:07

identities to I guess sort of fill that

01:13:09

Gap

01:13:10

um so I'm no longer the player but I'm

01:13:14

now either the coach or the podcaster or

01:13:16

um whatever whatever that is whether

01:13:19

that's a big thing and I was never

01:13:22

really seen as a like I wouldn't go down

01:13:24

the stre and every was oh there's James

01:13:26

Marshall the rugby player no one really

01:13:28

knew who I was it was so it was never a

01:13:30

massive part of it for me the identity

01:13:32

but I guess talking to other people

01:13:35

around it it's what you call yourself I

01:13:38

guess like I'm I am a rugby player it's

01:13:41

what I do but now what am I I'm I'm a

01:13:43

coach I'm a dad I'm a I'm all these

01:13:46

things so um it's an interesting piece

01:13:49

and something that I know a lot of guys

01:13:51

struggle with I think the biggest

01:13:52

struggle for me was probably the

01:13:54

exercise piece like with the

01:13:56

hip um how to fit an exercise cuz when

01:14:00

you're a player you it's in your

01:14:03

schedule you have to exercise it's part

01:14:05

of your routine and when you're trying

01:14:07

to find a career or you're trying to

01:14:11

build something like you know the

01:14:14

building a podcast was timec consuming

01:14:15

coaching was timec

01:14:17

consuming family was timec consuming

01:14:19

exercise for me went straight to the

01:14:21

bottom and that was something and

01:14:24

something that I'm still working at the

01:14:25

moment how can I fit that piece in for

01:14:28

myself and make sure that I'm still um

01:14:31

looking after my own body and um myself

01:14:34

in that same mental space how how is

01:14:36

your body now it's getting better and

01:14:39

better with my hip uh I guess the first

01:14:41

two years um struggled to run struggled

01:14:45

to walk without a limp I'm I can sort of

01:14:48

run around now with the kids which is

01:14:50

which is nice I could go for a run if I

01:14:52

had to um I can jump into training and

01:14:55

um do a few few bits there um but it's

01:15:00

not ideal I'm always going to struggle

01:15:02

with my hip I'm going to need a hit

01:15:03

replacement at some point it's just a

01:15:06

matter of when and trying to trying to

01:15:08

hold off for that as long as possible

01:15:11

they tell you you're too young right you

01:15:12

have to wait till what you're 50 they

01:15:15

just sit as long as possible let us know

01:15:17

and when it's um fully stuffed again and

01:15:20

we'll get a new one but um yeah

01:15:23

hopefully in 10 years some pretty good

01:15:26

technology I might have some sort of

01:15:28

robot H that

01:15:31

can um what sort of impact did did that

01:15:34

have on your mental health cuz it's uh

01:15:36

you know if physically if you're not fit

01:15:38

it's hard to be mentally fit he like it

01:15:40

gets you down yeah and I guess that was

01:15:42

the piece for me like I realized that um

01:15:46

that had my physical health was

01:15:48

definitely put to the to the back and

01:15:52

like I used to always love running um

01:15:55

couldn't run for sort of two

01:15:57

years I started getting off the gym um

01:16:02

later in my career just you know sort of

01:16:05

found it quite tedious or hard work to

01:16:07

get myself up for gym sessions like I

01:16:09

used to when I was younger um and that

01:16:11

was really the only thing I could do so

01:16:12

I sort of just sort of parked it and

01:16:15

wasn't doing anything then you know find

01:16:17

yourself getting real sloppy around the

01:16:19

G and um yeah it's um

01:16:25

something I've tried to plan in this

01:16:26

year like early mornings I'll try and

01:16:28

get up and go to the gym whether that's

01:16:31

a um little bit of a strength hurt um

01:16:34

bike or run or something I'm trying to

01:16:36

do something three times a week in the

01:16:38

morning and I've learned this from met

01:16:41

Todd but once you've once you write it

01:16:43

down and what you're going to do the

01:16:45

next morning you do it if you don't

01:16:47

you're more inclined to not do it so um

01:16:51

I definitely feel that like if I've

01:16:52

written something down I'll I'll get up

01:16:54

and do it

01:16:55

that satisfaction of Crossing it off the

01:16:57

list or ticking it is is worth it well

01:16:59

if you don't write it down I'll find

01:17:01

myself just jumping straight on the

01:17:03

computer and getting into some clips and

01:17:07

um watching watching training or doing a

01:17:09

little bit more that's a good that's a

01:17:12

good tip isn't it that's a good Pro tip

01:17:13

so you write like a to-do list at night

01:17:16

time yeah do you any any other

01:17:17

journaling or anything like that are you

01:17:19

you PR gratitude or I've gone through

01:17:21

stages where I've got right into that um

01:17:24

I really found that in Co the co break

01:17:27

that got on a lot of those U mental

01:17:30

health sort of podcasts and some of

01:17:32

those the ice spaths the journaling the

01:17:35

Gratitude all that sort of stuff I feel

01:17:37

like naturally I've always been really

01:17:40

grateful um I'm not sure how or why but

01:17:44

um didn't have a huge amount growing up

01:17:46

so everything that I get I'm always

01:17:49

super grateful for and I know it's so

01:17:51

easy to take the things that you have

01:17:55

um and you use every day like your

01:17:57

fingers your being able to breathe your

01:17:59

all these things so easy to take for

01:18:02

granted CU um you don't think about them

01:18:03

until they're until they're gone but I

01:18:06

think it's a great thing to practice um

01:18:09

writing down as many I used to do it um

01:18:13

I should still do it but I don't um 10

01:18:15

things every morning that I'm grateful

01:18:17

for and that can be anything like

01:18:19

grateful to be able to listen or um

01:18:21

grateful to be able to breathe um

01:18:24

grateful for being able to have fresh

01:18:25

water all these little things that you

01:18:27

don't often think about um unless you

01:18:30

consciously make an effort to think

01:18:32

about because you know you notice it

01:18:34

when you've got a sore throat and how

01:18:36

hard it is to swallow or when your nose

01:18:37

is bed and you just want to breathe you

01:18:39

notice you notice then how important it

01:18:42

is but until you until it's taken away

01:18:44

you don't really know yeah when when

01:18:46

when you're unwell you only have one

01:18:48

word sh that's that's be well again

01:18:50

that's really good I I sort of do that

01:18:52

as well I don't write it down but I lie

01:18:54

and beard in the morning that's the

01:18:55

first thing I do like I I just lie there

01:18:56

and count my blessings and it's like you

01:18:58

can set the Gratitude bar really low

01:19:00

like having having a warm duvet on top

01:19:02

of you having a roof over your head yeah

01:19:04

the water like you said drinking water

01:19:06

out of the T yeah it's um it's a bloody

01:19:08

great way to be I feel like the

01:19:10

Gratitude just the word with its sort of

01:19:12

woo woo connotations gets a bad rep but

01:19:14

it's bloody good yeah it's powerful and

01:19:17

um I think people always see it as um

01:19:20

big picture stuff grateful for my big

01:19:23

car or whatever it is but it's it's as

01:19:25

simple as um the things that keep you

01:19:28

alive or the health often was always a

01:19:30

big one of myself and my family like

01:19:32

yeah you don't realize until you hear

01:19:35

stories of other people's kids getting

01:19:38

sick and just you know sort of hits you

01:19:40

how grateful I am that my kids are all

01:19:43

healthy and well and um something that

01:19:46

you canot take for granted cuz there's

01:19:49

no Rhyme or Reason Why kids get sick or

01:19:53

um get these illnesses that are so

01:19:55

heartbreaking but um something to always

01:19:57

be grateful for yeah absolutely um oh

01:20:01

one thing I forgot to mentioned so the

01:20:03

um the itm Cup Final so uh taneki you

01:20:07

you were the captain you won that game

01:20:09

your brother Tom was on the other team

01:20:11

yeah um how was that that was intense

01:20:15

like that's probably the most intense

01:20:17

game I think I ever played was that one

01:20:19

in terms

01:20:21

of um the atmosphere of the but also the

01:20:26

banter and um I guess probably abuse

01:20:30

from the

01:20:31

opposition cuz I played with a lot of

01:20:34

the those guys it wasn't just my brother

01:20:35

I was a proud Tes Marco man came through

01:20:38

the region that's so awkward um now a

01:20:42

few years later captaining tanaki and

01:20:45

we're going at it in the final so it was

01:20:48

one of those ones where um the intensity

01:20:52

of the game just sort of got me in in

01:20:54

the red and a lot of the guys were

01:20:57

calling me a traitor the um hammerhead

01:21:00

fans were all abusing me in the

01:21:02

crowd do do you do you does that get to

01:21:05

you or do you thrive in that um it's

01:21:08

kind of banter in a away isn't it or it

01:21:10

is it is and it was um I didn't I

01:21:13

wouldn't say I thrived in it I felt like

01:21:16

like they talk about staying in the like

01:21:18

the top of the curve I'd definitely gone

01:21:20

past it like um over arousal like I

01:21:24

thought made I looked at that game some

01:21:26

really poor decisions but like the

01:21:28

physicality like I was really up for it

01:21:30

in terms of the collisions cuz I was

01:21:32

just so angry and um fired up for the

01:21:36

game like um yeah there's some harsh

01:21:40

words said and my brother didn't speak

01:21:42

to me for a we while after that one but

01:21:44

really like what's what's a we while I

01:21:47

reckon it would have been a couple of

01:21:49

weeks oh my God what about said did your

01:21:51

parents go to the game yeah they were

01:21:53

all there who do they support

01:21:55

one each me usually no no they were

01:21:58

pretty neutral actually I remember that

01:22:00

one cuz my dad had a bet on both of us

01:22:03

to win like taranaki were paying $30 to

01:22:06

win the comp at the start of the year

01:22:08

which is well that wow rank Outsiders no

01:22:11

one gave us a chance and my dad quite

01:22:13

liked those odds and put a little bit of

01:22:16

money on them and then Tasman I think

01:22:19

had a slow start and managed to get a

01:22:21

decent return on them as well so he was

01:22:23

in a wi-1 situation but he was going to

01:22:25

win more if taranaki won so I think he

01:22:28

was financially cheering for me so what

01:22:32

did he have on the game so 100 bucks he

01:22:34

would would have got 3,000 back yeah I

01:22:36

can't remember the exact figures but it

01:22:38

would have been something around that

01:22:39

yeah unreal yeah he was stoked that's

01:22:42

awesome so um so you you and your

01:22:44

brother don't talk for a couple of weeks

01:22:45

then how do you break the ice after that

01:22:47

I honestly can't remember I

01:22:50

think such a great often times you're um

01:22:54

especially when you're in different

01:22:55

teams you don't actually you're not

01:22:57

speaking every day sometimes it is a

01:22:59

couple of weeks before you speak so

01:23:03

um yeah I I don't actually know it was

01:23:05

probably just a normal next time we were

01:23:08

together we were we're good as gold but

01:23:10

definitely felt a little bit of awkward

01:23:11

tension for a while yeah and and when

01:23:13

you reflect on your career now because I

01:23:15

suppose every um every young New

01:23:17

Zealander growing up it's the the yeah

01:23:19

your goal to make the All Blacks yeah um

01:23:21

do do you feel like you got everything

01:23:22

you could out of your career or do you

01:23:24

like there was unfinished business yeah

01:23:26

and I think that's a little bit around

01:23:28

that piece I said before around I felt

01:23:30

like I got the most out of my career

01:23:32

hence why I left um I look back on that

01:23:36

and challenge that sometimes around

01:23:38

whether that was a fair assessment um

01:23:42

whether I could have been an all black I

01:23:44

felt like I potentially could have been

01:23:47

a one to five game all black might have

01:23:50

maybe got a cap if IID continued on that

01:23:54

that pathway but I never felt like I was

01:23:56

going to be a um all black legend or a

01:23:59

long-term all black so I always felt

01:24:01

like um I was pretty limited um and I

01:24:04

was achieving probably as high as I

01:24:06

thought I would so um thought it was

01:24:09

best for me to sort of cash in while I

01:24:11

while I could

01:24:15

um rugby career you never know when it's

01:24:17

going to end and um yeah once I'd had my

01:24:21

family and wanted to sort of set set

01:24:23

ourselves up for

01:24:25

life after and moving overseas at the

01:24:27

time was definitely the right thing for

01:24:29

me yeah oh who knows maybe you'll get

01:24:31

that cap in the future as a

01:24:34

coach who knows um all right we'll go to

01:24:37

some um okay audience uh audience

01:24:40

questions um yeah I put on Instagram

01:24:43

that you're coming in first one was um

01:24:45

question for Jimmy too long to put in

01:24:46

the Box haha ask him if he remembers how

01:24:49

he got home from Crowded House Bar in

01:24:50

New Plymouth after the 2014 itm Cup

01:24:53

Final against tasma

01:24:56

I honestly cannot remember that but I I

01:24:59

remember there being a house

01:25:01

party um it was a massive

01:25:04

night um but does he does he have any

01:25:08

yeah he says the answer is me I was

01:25:10

sober driver for my mates and stumbled

01:25:12

across him and Jamie broader stumbling

01:25:14

along Devon Street PE he owes me macers

01:25:17

cuz he ate my

01:25:19

nuggets remember that at all I don't

01:25:21

remember that but very grateful for that

01:25:23

ride um and sorry about the Nuggets I

01:25:26

will repay you for those nuggets but man

01:25:30

that was that was a good night um yeah I

01:25:33

guess that that was big part of it like

01:25:34

the emotions of that whole week and that

01:25:37

game was just so much to be able to

01:25:40

celebrate after that one was pretty

01:25:42

special and wasn't just that night it

01:25:45

was a a few days after it was um really

01:25:48

good memories with that crew oh how good

01:25:51

um Miller Stewart says ask him about the

01:25:54

slap horse yarn one of the best from

01:25:56

Jimmy slap

01:25:59

horse doesn't ring any bells I'm

01:26:01

guessing that maybe there's some things

01:26:03

here that have come up on your your

01:26:04

podcast that you just don't you have you

01:26:06

got a [ __ ] memory it's like me I

01:26:09

concussions um slap horse yarn doesn't

01:26:13

ring any bells no it doesn't but I'd

01:26:14

love I'd love to be able to share it if

01:26:16

I knew it okay um biggest barrier the

01:26:19

Crusaders face with a new coach SL

01:26:21

missing senior

01:26:22

members yeah that's probably a good one

01:26:25

around um I'm not so sure if it's the

01:26:30

the new coach feel like Rob Penny's

01:26:33

coming and really seamlessly sort of

01:26:35

taking over that role of what Razer did

01:26:39

it people would look from the outside

01:26:42

and probably suggest otherwise and they

01:26:44

cop a lot of he's cooping a lot of

01:26:45

pressure at the moment for for the

01:26:47

record but I think he's doing a really

01:26:48

good

01:26:50

job other pieces around the the players

01:26:53

who have gone that's it's always going

01:26:55

to be um a big gap to fill um Richie

01:26:59

manga Sam white loock couple of the most

01:27:01

influential Super Rugby players ever

01:27:05

probably um not easy to to fill that Gap

01:27:09

um not just in terms of what they do on

01:27:11

the field but off it and the way they

01:27:13

drove standards and um adapted game

01:27:18

plans on the field you C you you can't

01:27:21

really coach that you can um do your

01:27:23

best to sort of educate some of the

01:27:25

young tens and game drivers around these

01:27:29

pictures that they're seeing but

01:27:30

sometimes it's just getting the Reps and

01:27:32

um I think that's probably been the

01:27:34

biggest challenge we've we've found so

01:27:36

far this season but um every game's a

01:27:39

learning piece for these guys so

01:27:41

hopefully by the time this is released

01:27:43

um we've got a very good win to lost rof

01:27:46

and people can um yeah I guess agree

01:27:49

with it yeah um I feel like this is a

01:27:52

statement more of a question um

01:27:54

how fat is that wallet boy sash Jimmy

01:27:57

chew is his

01:27:58

name what's that about how fat is the

01:28:01

wallet that's probably back to my um oh

01:28:03

being a tight ass tight potentially and

01:28:06

yeah um I think but by the way I think

01:28:08

being a tight US is an admirable thing

01:28:10

like um the morning after buying a round

01:28:12

of fireballs or Jager Bombs no one

01:28:14

remembers instant regret you check their

01:28:17

account um did Elliot Dixon score that

01:28:19

try now that is a common question what

01:28:23

TR is this what this was to win the

01:28:24

Super Rugby

01:28:26

2015 um Elliott Dixon scored a very

01:28:29

controversial try um which essentially

01:28:33

won them the game I don't like to watch

01:28:35

that one back cuz I missed one of those

01:28:37

tackles on him um so that one still sort

01:28:40

of haunts me a little bit but I I

01:28:43

believe he dropped it I've spoken to him

01:28:46

he's convinced he scored it but I Reon

01:28:48

he's just just loves that yarn but so

01:28:51

who did ellot he was playing for the

01:28:53

Highlanders when they won the

01:28:54

2015

01:28:56

Super huran yeah so he scored a pretty

01:28:59

good try and beat me in one of those

01:29:01

tackles um how something like that how

01:29:04

long do you beat yourself up for how

01:29:06

long does it take to get over that um oh

01:29:09

I wouldn't say it's like an everyday

01:29:10

thing but when I see it it's just more

01:29:12

of a like oh damn it that was that was

01:29:15

my moment you know but um I I can't say

01:29:18

I think about it too much more than that

01:29:21

I think you you've just got a really

01:29:23

good sort of um attitude to things eh

01:29:26

like I'm thinking other people have had

01:29:27

on the podcast like Shane Cameron he

01:29:29

said it was like seven years before um

01:29:31

he went a whole day without thinking

01:29:32

about the tour fight um Jimmy nisham um

01:29:36

one of the World Cup games that they

01:29:37

lost in a super over or whatever he said

01:29:39

he he thought about that daily for you

01:29:41

know years and still thinks about it um

01:29:43

John T good from shead I recorded a

01:29:45

podcast with him and um he made a joke

01:29:48

on stage that potentially cost them like

01:29:49

a couple of million dollars with a

01:29:51

contract and he said he said he every

01:29:54

every night for seven months had had

01:29:55

wake up at least once in the night and

01:29:57

sort of turn over it um I think the for

01:30:00

me it's around

01:30:03

um the at the end of the day it is a

01:30:06

game it's a game that's there to

01:30:09

entertain um people love watching it

01:30:11

people um enjoy it but it's it's a it's

01:30:16

really it like there's so many more

01:30:17

bigger issues in the world that um

01:30:21

people can be stressed out about than

01:30:23

the fact that I missed a

01:30:25

tackle that potentially cost us the game

01:30:28

I like you can beat yourself up about it

01:30:31

as much as you want like every time I

01:30:34

went out on the field or as a coach now

01:30:36

do everything I can to do my best or get

01:30:39

the result for my team but sometimes

01:30:42

that's not going to be good enough and

01:30:44

um I will make mistakes and it's

01:30:46

around um that's okay as long as you

01:30:49

learn from them and try not to let them

01:30:52

happen again um um that's the reality of

01:30:55

it and then if you're really

01:30:57

overthinking it just pull back and

01:30:59

realize how small you are in this big

01:31:02

world um and that the fact that 10 years

01:31:05

ago I missed a tackle nobody really

01:31:08

cares when you're looking at the whole

01:31:10

picture of the thing so um that's such a

01:31:13

good perspective yeah I think sometimes

01:31:16

pulling back can um give you perspective

01:31:18

and how small you are in this world like

01:31:20

often we think that we're probably more

01:31:22

important than we are and um it can give

01:31:25

you a bit of a reality check yeah um

01:31:27

apart from rugby what is his favorite

01:31:30

thing to do in Christ

01:31:31

chur um well with the three kids soon to

01:31:36

be four very playground heavy the

01:31:39

Margaret May Margaret m park is is a

01:31:42

good one um but there's lots of good

01:31:43

playgrounds around um often on a day off

01:31:47

I like to go out to um Tom beg's Farm

01:31:49

who's a horse trainer I'll go sitting

01:31:52

behind a couple of horses it was a

01:31:55

passion of mine growing up and um

01:31:57

something I've always sort of loved to

01:32:00

loved to do at some point potentially

01:32:02

get behind one and drive in a in a race

01:32:05

but um yeah's a few few things that keep

01:32:08

me busy but the time so I'm limited at

01:32:11

the moment um a lot of guys play golf

01:32:14

and I've just got into this might be a

01:32:15

bit weird but a bit of frisbee golf um

01:32:18

there's a little Frisbee Golf Course

01:32:20

around by my house and really enjoying

01:32:23

just going out and with the kids my

01:32:25

8-year-old's quite good as well so go

01:32:27

out and have a round of frisbee golf to

01:32:30

about 20 minutes to do the course and

01:32:33

bit more time consuming less time

01:32:35

consuming than a real game of golf I'm

01:32:37

chasing balls around left right and

01:32:39

Center so yeah if you've got three kids

01:32:40

in a fourth on the way like even nine

01:32:43

holes of actual golf is going to be a

01:32:45

big ass um what are Jimmy's thoughts on

01:32:48

flotation as a part of recovery

01:32:50

relaxation yeah I'm big big fan of that

01:32:53

so Tim bitman at o Studio that's

01:32:55

actually another uh one of my go-tos in

01:32:58

Christ Church on a day off I'll try and

01:33:00

get into there um have a float or a

01:33:03

sauna or ice bath or a yoga session or

01:33:06

something like that um I really enjoy it

01:33:09

especially when I'm when I'm feeling

01:33:10

worn down or um you know like feeling

01:33:15

like I'm starting to get quite stressed

01:33:16

about things I'll just go and have a 45

01:33:19

minute float where I can just let the

01:33:22

Mind try and go and let it go wherever

01:33:25

it wants to and just come out of there

01:33:27

feeling really refreshed often I fall

01:33:29

asleep especially at the moment with how

01:33:31

busy I am and how fatigued I am um but I

01:33:35

I really enjoy it and I found some huge

01:33:37

benefits from it yeah brilliant uh

01:33:40

favorite player you've coached and why

01:33:43

oh geez that's tough they like kids you

01:33:46

can't have a favorite I think um Ethan

01:33:49

blackhead is someone who is just the

01:33:52

ultimate man to coach I think a lot of

01:33:55

players will say the same thing he's

01:33:56

just such a champion guy he's he just

01:34:00

craves learning he does everything he

01:34:02

can to get better I'm so gutted for him

01:34:05

around his injuries at the moment but

01:34:08

hopefully we'll see him back out on the

01:34:10

field shortly and um yeah he's he's such

01:34:13

a good player and like if you could say

01:34:15

who's the perfect guy to coach or who's

01:34:18

your perfect player that you could model

01:34:20

Academy [ __ ] off it's it's probably Ethan

01:34:22

blackett yeah High praise um do you like

01:34:26

punting on the horses I used to like um

01:34:28

growing up it was a big part of my

01:34:30

upbringing really like spent a lot of

01:34:32

time at tabs my dad was a big pter a lot

01:34:37

of our holidays were at the different

01:34:40

race meetings so um you a lot of the

01:34:44

race meetings a lot of Friday nights

01:34:45

would be down at Alexandre park or with

01:34:48

my grandma and my dad and all those sort

01:34:51

of memories um as a kid and then as I

01:34:56

grew up I still sort of loved the game

01:34:58

and I I I still enjoy it but I I haven't

01:34:59

bet for sort of the last five years um

01:35:04

CU I was thinking it would go against a

01:35:05

few um gor Pockets yeah it would sort of

01:35:08

go against you'd probably hate losing

01:35:09

money I did hate losing money I guess

01:35:11

the thing for me I was I was actually I

01:35:14

know a lot of people say this but I was

01:35:15

actually quite good at it um I know a

01:35:18

lot of punters believe they are but um I

01:35:23

would get accounts shut down

01:35:26

um so bet 365 a lot of people who bet

01:35:30

would probably know that um betting

01:35:32

ageny soon as you start winning they'll

01:35:34

restrict your account so you can't bet

01:35:36

um as soon as you're losing they'll give

01:35:38

you um fre free credits to sort of

01:35:41

promote your gambling

01:35:43

so my um account got restricted pretty

01:35:47

quickly and then I started buying guys

01:35:49

accounts off them and start started

01:35:51

building syndicates and

01:35:54

built a pretty significant Syndicate at

01:35:56

the Hurricanes which had eight people

01:35:58

and so that was eight different accounts

01:36:00

for me to sort of get shut down before

01:36:03

we so we could build this Kitty and

01:36:05

build enough in the kitty that we bought

01:36:07

a

01:36:07

horse um which has gone through

01:36:11

different horses and we've still got a

01:36:12

horse together now that that Syndicate

01:36:14

but um yeah had a lot of I guess the

01:36:19

thing for me around gambling the

01:36:21

addiction piece for me was the time

01:36:23

spent on it like it was never a money

01:36:25

and like because of my GS Pockets I

01:36:27

would never have allowed it to get them

01:36:30

the loss of money but it

01:36:32

was so much time spent on it and like

01:36:35

researching researching watching um

01:36:38

everything like just it's endless you

01:36:40

can get up in the morning you can watch

01:36:42

races all the way to toight and I found

01:36:44

myself doing that quite regularly

01:36:46

especially on days off pre kids and then

01:36:50

I guess once kids came into the equation

01:36:52

that was the moment where I realized

01:36:54

that hang

01:36:55

on um I can't keep sneaking off to the

01:36:58

toilet to watch to watch race after race

01:37:01

after race you doing that well I I

01:37:03

didn't want to be watching them in front

01:37:04

of the kids and my wife was never a big

01:37:06

fan of it so um I knew that um that was

01:37:11

the point where I was like oh I've got

01:37:12

to I've got to give this up like um it's

01:37:15

just not worth it and I I loved the I

01:37:19

Lov the gambling side of I Lov the mates

01:37:21

part like especially being in a

01:37:23

syndicate the group of it like going to

01:37:25

a pub and having a b with five mates and

01:37:28

just riding home winners was something I

01:37:30

really enjoyed but once I realized that

01:37:33

[ __ ] it's taking away time from my kids

01:37:34

and my family and um I didn't want that

01:37:37

to happen I knew I had to um pull the

01:37:39

pen you seem to have quite good

01:37:41

self-discipline like and quite a good

01:37:43

self- awareness so if you're aware that

01:37:44

something's not working for you um you

01:37:46

seem to be quite good at knocking it on

01:37:47

the head yeah I guess means you don't

01:37:49

have the the addictive gene potentially

01:37:52

yeah or I I was probably addicted to it

01:37:54

for a while but I think that I'm not

01:37:56

sure how you get self-awareness but I

01:37:58

think it's such a underrated skill to be

01:38:01

able to have to be able to be aware of

01:38:02

what you're doing and what harm it's

01:38:04

doing or in rugby like what are your

01:38:07

strengths what are your weaknesses or in

01:38:08

life what are your strengths what are

01:38:09

your weaknesses and once you know that

01:38:12

you can work on your weaknesses or play

01:38:14

to your strengths but that

01:38:15

self-awareness piece is such a important

01:38:17

part I think yeah yeah and you um are

01:38:21

you proud of yourself you you you know

01:38:22

you like who who you see in the mirror

01:38:25

yeah I think so um that's probably quite

01:38:28

an awkward thing to say like it is it is

01:38:32

but it's well I look back at what I've

01:38:34

achieved and man I I think I've

01:38:36

overachieved massively and um I hear

01:38:41

people talk about me or the perception

01:38:43

that um I guess on the podcast or what

01:38:47

I've built is that I'm a a good lad or a

01:38:50

good person and I'm really proud of of

01:38:53

that side of me like um I

01:38:56

won the team Man of the Year a lot at

01:38:58

the Hurricanes because I felt like

01:39:00

people really appreciated the team man

01:39:02

that I was I put the team first I

01:39:04

wasn't ego driven or um myself driven so

01:39:09

um I'm really proud of those

01:39:11

achievements probably more so than what

01:39:13

I achieved on the field I think that

01:39:15

person that you are is so important

01:39:17

that's the one that people remember and

01:39:18

I feel like because of that I've created

01:39:21

mates and really good relationships with

01:39:23

so many people um throughout the world

01:39:26

that now with my podcast I try and get

01:39:28

them on and um share their stories as

01:39:31

well I think that's a good place to end

01:39:33

it James Marshall absolute lad mate

01:39:36

you're a lad appreciate it oh mate I

01:39:38

appreciate you being so generous with

01:39:39

your time um thanks for being engaged

01:39:41

for like an hour 42 I'm was your mind

01:39:44

wandering are you thinking about

01:39:45

tonight's game or no no I haven't mate

01:39:47

like I I love that side of podcast like

01:39:50

once you're in it you're in the

01:39:52

conversation there's no distractions

01:39:53

there's no phones you're not um you're

01:39:55

not doing anything El you're in your

01:39:57

conversation and once you finished

01:39:58

you're like well hour 40 That's I didn't

01:40:01

feel like I was talking for that long so

01:40:03

um I really enjoyed it I appreciate the

01:40:05

insights mate and um yeah best of luck

01:40:07

for the rest of the Crusader season by

01:40:09

the time uh this podcast goes out we'll

01:40:11

be deep into it um yeah hopefully you

01:40:13

turn things around appreciate it mate

01:40:15

thank you

01:40:23

oh

Episode Highlights

The Pressure of Coaching
Jimmy discusses the challenges and pressures of coaching the Crusaders after a tough start to the season.
“I haven't felt the pressure probably as much as external feel like I have.”
@ 04m 19s
May 05, 2024
Creating a Safe Space for Players
The podcast aims to showcase players' true personalities, breaking the media's portrayal of them.
“I wanted to create that middle space where guys could share who they really are.”
@ 19m 03s
May 05, 2024
Finding Purpose in Coaching
Struggling with goals, a coach shares his journey of learning and growth.
“I just feel like I'm happy to just be in the game.”
@ 19m 51s
May 05, 2024
Podcasting Journey
From a fear of podcast fatigue to over 240 episodes, the host reflects on his growth.
“I was really enjoying it, really enjoying the conversations.”
@ 27m 03s
May 05, 2024
Media Misrepresentation
A discussion on the challenges of sharing vulnerable stories in the media.
“I'd rather those 20 downloads but being real than a million downloads and everything's just closed up.”
@ 38m 21s
May 05, 2024
The Dream Guest
The host shares his aspiration to have rugby idol Christian Cullen on the podcast.
“He's probably a dream guest for me.”
@ 43m 11s
May 05, 2024
Surreal Moments
Reflecting on the surreal experience of playing with childhood idols.
“It's a pretty surreal moment.”
@ 59m 17s
May 05, 2024
Navigating Social Media
Discussing the emotional roller coaster of reading comments on social media.
“If you're willing to read the good stuff, you're going to have to read the bad stuff too.”
@ 01h 04m 34s
May 05, 2024
Financial Freedom After Rugby
Sharing insights on managing finances and finishing a sports career without debt.
“I finished my rugby mortgage-free.”
@ 01h 10m 26s
May 05, 2024
The Power of Gratitude
Practicing gratitude can transform your perspective on life’s simple joys.
“Gratitude just the word gets a bad rep but it’s bloody good.”
@ 01h 19m 10s
May 05, 2024
Reflections on a Rugby Career
Looking back, he feels he got the most out of his career but wonders about missed opportunities.
“I always felt like I was pretty limited.”
@ 01h 24m 01s
May 05, 2024
The Importance of Self-Awareness
Self-awareness is a crucial skill that helps you understand your strengths and weaknesses.
“Self-awareness is such an underrated skill.”
@ 01h 37m 58s
May 05, 2024

Episode Quotes

The more you can help other people grow, the better for the whole community.
James Marshall on Crusaders '24 Season, What A Lad Podcast & Lessons from Razor
I was really enjoying it, really enjoying the conversations.
James Marshall on Crusaders '24 Season, What A Lad Podcast & Lessons from Razor
It's like the iceberg poster, you know?
James Marshall on Crusaders '24 Season, What A Lad Podcast & Lessons from Razor
It's a pretty surreal moment.
James Marshall on Crusaders '24 Season, What A Lad Podcast & Lessons from Razor
I'm super grateful for everything I get.
James Marshall on Crusaders '24 Season, What A Lad Podcast & Lessons from Razor
Sometimes pulling back can give you perspective on how small you are in this world.
James Marshall on Crusaders '24 Season, What A Lad Podcast & Lessons from Razor

Key Moments

Media Mistrust38:33
Podcast Goals39:06
Imposter Syndrome52:41
First Super Rugby Game55:59
Surreal Experience59:17
Financial Management1:10:26
Gratitude Practice1:18:15
Self-Awareness1:37:58

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

The Mad Butcher - Racism Controversy, Near Death Experience, Warriors & Kiwis Legacy

October 01, 2023

01:18:10

The Mad Butcher - Racism Controversy, Near Death Experience, Warriors & Kiwis Legacy

Between Two Beers - Becoming NZ’s Top Podcast, Friendship, Drinking Culture and more!

November 12, 2023

01:34:43

Between Two Beers - Becoming NZ’s Top Podcast, Friendship, Drinking Culture and more!

Jay-Jay Feeney Asks Me YOUR Questions - 1 Million Download Special!

July 30, 2023

57:00

Jay-Jay Feeney Asks Me YOUR Questions - 1 Million Download Special!

Dion Nash Reflects on Business Journey, Cricket Career, Cannabis Controversy & More!

June 09, 2024

02:24:53

Dion Nash Reflects on Business Journey, Cricket Career, Cannabis Controversy & More!

The Voice of NZ Rugby - Tony Johnson on Eden Park, Working with Paul Holmes, Prostate Cancer & More!

October 30, 2024

02:08:09

The Voice of NZ Rugby - Tony Johnson on Eden Park, Working with Paul Holmes, Prostate Cancer & More!

Mark Richardson’s Surprising New Career - Feuds with Jacinda Ardern, Shane Warne & More!

February 18, 2024

01:05:22

Mark Richardson’s Surprising New Career - Feuds with Jacinda Ardern, Shane Warne & More!

Christian Cullen’s BEST Jonah Lomu Stories, Beef with John Mitchell & Finding Purpose After Rugby

September 22, 2024

01:55:24

Christian Cullen’s BEST Jonah Lomu Stories, Beef with John Mitchell & Finding Purpose After Rugby

Paul Henry Roasts “Incompetent” NZ Media, Reflects on Dikshit & Moustache On a Lady, Nudism & More!

July 01, 2024

01:56:29

Paul Henry Roasts “Incompetent” NZ Media, Reflects on Dikshit & Moustache On a Lady, Nudism & More!

Anna Mowbray on ZURU’s Origin Story, Life in China, Parenting with Ali Williams, Auckland FC & More!

July 21, 2024

01:27:16

Anna Mowbray on ZURU’s Origin Story, Life in China, Parenting with Ali Williams, Auckland FC & More!

Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion

November 16, 2025

02:04:25

Hamish Kerr: The Journey to Becoming an Olympic Champion

Bay Dreams Co-founder Mitch Lowe - Controversy, Fisher In NZ & MILLIONS LOST!

May 21, 2025

01:55:40

Bay Dreams Co-founder Mitch Lowe - Controversy, Fisher In NZ & MILLIONS LOST!

Comedian Cori Gonzalez-Macuer on Getting Fired & Mental Breakdown, How Fatherhood Saved his Life

September 08, 2024

01:32:41

Comedian Cori Gonzalez-Macuer on Getting Fired & Mental Breakdown, How Fatherhood Saved his Life