00:00:00
Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New
00:00:06
Zealand, it all comes from here. That's Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:00:10
for days. That's the boys who got the hole in one in to Finn. How's the performance going?
00:00:18
>> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In here, you'll find our top performers
00:00:22
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver [music] investments. Get in here, Finn. >> Maximize. Generate. putting performance
00:00:29
first. >> Sean Win Stanley, welcome to my podcast. >> Uh, yeah. Hey, thanks. Thanks for having
00:00:40
me. >> At Standard Line, that's what I brought in with me. >> You're um you're nervous.
00:00:45
>> Yeah, I just Oh, as I as I was saying just before, I I I don't like attention. Um, and here I
00:00:53
am sitting on a podcast with with Dom Harvey. So I I that's what makes me uncomfortable. Um but hey, here I am. Um
00:01:02
and happy to have you on with you. [sighs and gasps] >> Does your story get easier to tell the
00:01:07
more you tell it? >> Yeah, I think as we start talking through it that telling the story
00:01:15
isn't too bad to be honest. It's just the to to me it's a it's a yesterday
00:01:21
issue. It's a yesterday problem. We're moving forward. Um, the way that I look
00:01:25
at it is we need to keep going forward. So, this is is going back. Um, but at the same time, you still got to
00:01:32
acknowledge what what what your past is and and and what's actually got you to
00:01:37
where you are today, I suppose. So, the story itself um isn't too bad, but it's just the
00:01:43
whole stigma of that that attention coming towards towards you. [sighs and gasps]
00:01:48
>> Well, I do appreciate you being here on your first ever podcast and sharing the
00:01:52
story. Do do you think there will there will come a time where you draw a line in the sand and you just don't talk
00:01:56
about July 2023 anymore? >> Yeah, I I don't know. Um >> or is it part of your part of your
00:02:02
fabric? >> Well, sitting here today, um you had have asked me a year ago, would you be
00:02:07
doing this is you you couldn't have paid me enough. You you'd never I'd never do
00:02:11
it and here I am. So, I can't say what what what what tomorrow is going to bring. But um as I mentioned before and
00:02:18
this the story and and where I've come from and what's happened since um it may
00:02:24
resonate with some people may not the people that it does resonate with and and the feedback that I've been getting
00:02:31
um is if I can help one other person is I know people say that but if it helps one other person then man I'll do it as
00:02:38
long as people want me to. So, >> yeah. >> You and I, we've been going backwards
00:02:42
and forwards for um a couple of months now, I guess, maybe longer. And um you you you did a piece, I think it was with
00:02:47
the New Zealand Herald, and and then you bumped the podcast back after that because you said it was like it was
00:02:52
draining or it took something out of >> you. Yeah. I Yeah, it it is because you
00:02:58
do it and then you're like, "Oh, this." And and you get this attention. I'm
00:03:01
like, "No, never again." and I sort of go under my rock, you know, and uh but
00:03:06
then I come out the other end and I'm like, "Oh man, some of the things that
00:03:10
I'm saying, you got to be be comfortable being uncomfortable, you know, and this
00:03:14
is uncomfortable, but it's it yeah, it's going to get easier, I think." And
00:03:19
>> um yeah, >> well, I really appreciate you being here. Um you are now like an
00:03:24
entrepreneur. You're the CEO and founder of um this bad boy here, Firebird. and
00:03:29
we'll get into your whole entrepreneur journey um later on. It's amazing what
00:03:35
you've done, what you've created in such a short period of time. Um but first of
00:03:38
all, we'll get get to the crunchy stuff. Eh, >> yeah, appreciate it. >> So um who was Shan Stanley before July
00:03:44
20, 2023 and who is he now? >> Yeah. So fundamentally I'm the same person. So first and foremost I'm a
00:03:53
husband and a and a father um family member friend um so that hasn't changed
00:04:02
um uh perhaps some some way of me the way I perceive and how much I need to give here and there may have moved
00:04:11
around a little bit but um yeah pre that time um yeah a serving police officer um
00:04:18
>> you're a detective >> uh yeah I was a a detective yep and then
00:04:22
I'd joined the the tactical squads um prior to this uh the incident happening.
00:04:28
Um and then afterwards u a little blip in the middle um and now yeah as you said five bed protein coffee
00:04:35
and and recovery has been the the last couple of years. So um yeah. >> Are you still a member of the New
00:04:42
Zealand Police Force? >> Yeah. Yeah, I am. Um >> what's your status?
00:04:45
>> Uh I'm on a period of leave without pay. >> Okay. Um, so probably a good point just
00:04:50
to acknowledge how um, uh, supportive the New Zealand police have been. Um, I, yeah, they've been fantastic and I can't
00:05:01
understate how supportive they've been and appreciative I am from from them.
00:05:06
Everything they've done for me over my career and and also since what's happened.
00:05:12
>> What's the ultimate goal? Is it to get um Firebird protein coffee up and
00:05:16
running and you go back to being, you know, a serving member of the New Zealand Police?
00:05:20
>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. And well, that's and I laugh. I might laugh cuz it's
00:05:25
awkward, but I just can't get get I can't scratch that itch. Um there's
00:05:30
something about being a police officer. um you join for a particular reason and you'd think with with the success that
00:05:38
we're having with Firebird um and the opportunities there um that that why would you go back right but
00:05:45
there's something that you get out of um [sighs] helping people I suppose um
00:05:53
that that yeah I'm I'm I'm keen to still do my bit in that way and and I'm still
00:05:58
very passionate about policing and police work So, um, yeah, I suppose I need to figure that out properly.
00:06:08
>> Well, it's all quite recent, >> like like what two and a half years.
00:06:13
>> Yeah, a couple of years ago. Um, yeah, July. So, >> yeah. Yeah, recent, but a lot's
00:06:18
happened, right? Um, and the and the first the first 12 months certainly was pretty slow, I
00:06:26
suppose. And um yeah, but all I can say is in a in a good space, but uh throughout today I I'll be saying about
00:06:36
how [clears throat] how I've dealt with it. But there has been some tricky times, you know, like
00:06:40
>> when you're not eating after multiple operations and you get hangry and my
00:06:45
wife will tell you I get hangry and [snorts] if I ever am a bit grumpy, it will either be go for a run, go to the
00:06:49
gym or have something to eat and that generally sorts me out. So that was something I couldn't do for 12 months. M
00:06:55
um so [snorts] although I'll sit here now and say um life's all good and this
00:07:01
that and the other um there there's been some tough times along the way. Um yeah
00:07:08
before um July 20th 2023 what what do you think your biggest adversity was in life?
00:07:15
>> Yeah. Um I I don't know if there's one that stands out. um by adversity as such. Um
00:07:29
and I suppose it's the challenges that I'd set myself along the way um through [snorts]
00:07:38
um through the police. Um and when we were a bit younger, we lost a um really good mate of ours uh to a tragic
00:07:48
incident that happened. Um and that's where it all sort of started to how to deal with
00:07:59
um adversity I suppose without going into that too much but yeah. How often do you think about that day
00:08:08
now? >> July 20. >> Um, >> yeah, not not in depth as such, but
00:08:16
every day when I'm brushing my teeth and I hit a bit of the non- teeth area or
00:08:22
there's a little bit of a flap in my gum or I'm I'm trying to bite something and
00:08:28
I can't cuz I've still haven't got teeth there. I suppose it will remind me in
00:08:33
some way. Um yeah, you mentioned at the start it is just part of what's happened now and
00:08:41
um yeah so not not not in depth but there's certainly >> reminders >> the reminders and um I suppose
00:08:51
yeah how how lucky I I was. >> Yeah. Yeah. Would you say you're lucky or unlucky?
00:08:57
>> Yeah. Well, another thing that I have to say and a couple of the reasons why I don't like
00:09:04
telling my story in some reason is that there there was two people that didn't
00:09:08
leave that building that day. There was another eight people that were were really really badly injured. There was
00:09:14
people that just only just like nearly nearly got shot, you know. So, um, my heart still goes out to those
00:09:23
that did lose their lives to them, uh, their families and stuff like that, you know, like I'm I'm grateful enough and
00:09:30
I'm lucky enough to be sitting here and telling this story and that that's not
00:09:33
lost on me. >> Um, so yeah, heart goes out to them. So, to to answer your question, I feel
00:09:41
>> um I was yeah, an unlucky unlucky lucky person that day. Um, >> it's perspective, eh?
00:09:48
>> Yeah, absolutely. And I think so there's a couple of well there's four main
00:09:52
things if if you want me to touch on it now that I reflect on during uh that time which has helped me get through. Um
00:09:59
first is um like mental resilience through physical exercise. So that's even just going for a run and pushing
00:10:07
yourself that extra 100 meters. might be someone that is struggling to even walk
00:10:11
to actually go to the uh uh mailbox and back. Um and and it's something hard,
00:10:18
but you you you get through it. I think I put a lot down to my recovery from some of the selection courses and stuff
00:10:25
I'd done in my life where I'd pushed myself to the limits and I proved to
00:10:29
myself that I could get through it. So, um prevention or building mental resilience through physical exercise.
00:10:35
But since then, >> [snorts] >> um, don't dwell the what ifs. Um, what
00:10:39
if I didn't go to work that day? Uh, [snorts] what if I had have been standing 2 cm to the left? What if I had
00:10:45
have done this? What if you can't dwell on the what ifs. And on reflection of that, a lot of the times
00:10:51
you are a little bit shitty or or grumpy or upset. It's sort of like, well, what
00:10:56
if I had have got that promotion? What if that girl had liked me? What if I had have gone that way? What you know? Um so
00:11:02
those what ifs um in the past I I think if you can acknowledge them but move on and don't dwell on them. Um and that's
00:11:10
something that I've had to deal with. Um so don't dwell on those whatifs. Um the
00:11:16
the job be grateful for what you got, right? >> Um I can't eat an apple. Who who cares
00:11:23
because I'm grateful that I can eat, you know? Just just an example to bring it
00:11:27
back to [snorts] thing. Um, be grateful for what you got, whether it's your your
00:11:33
partner, your kids, your dog, your next door neighbor or whatever. Um, yeah, if you're above ground, then then be
00:11:40
grateful. And the last one is um just be open to talking to people. I'm And it's a work on for me cuz I can
00:11:49
pretty much tuck tuck a lot under the belt and carry on, you know, and it's it's a work on for me. But um uh yeah, I
00:11:57
promised Nikki, my wife, um after I came out of my coma that I would talk to a psychologist um because many incidents
00:12:07
prior to what happened that day. You I'd get a call from the welfare officer from
00:12:13
work and I'd be like, "No, I'm okay. I'm going to a job. See you later." But and
00:12:17
then I got to a point where I would say it's them and not answer them. Sorry to
00:12:20
them. [laughter] They they're amazing and and that didn't put me in goodstead at all. But oh, it's
00:12:26
[snorts] a welfare officer. I won't talk to them. But if I had of um and since
00:12:30
engaging with those types of people that that offer that support and >> [snorts]
00:12:36
>> um man, you just feel better for it. And uh gone are the days in my opinion that
00:12:40
you can just pick up a bottle or [snorts] um and and drink your way through it or or do some other ways.
00:12:47
Just get it out, you know, >> just bottle bottle things up. Yeah. Were you like were you like a vault before
00:12:52
this? Oh, pretty. [laughter] Oh, I'm a vault and that vault's still sort of
00:12:56
closed quite a bit, but I open it up from time to time now just so that that vault doesn't blow up. But, um,
00:13:03
>> what would Nikki say about you like pre pre the the shooting? Like, were you
00:13:06
were you a terrible communicator? >> Oh, absolutely. We'd be we'd go out to
00:13:11
uh we'd go out to dinner or something like that and I'd be having a yarn and
00:13:14
I'd say, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, last week we did this and there was bullets flying
00:13:17
and this that and the other or oh we went to this sudden death and this person had was decapitated or something
00:13:23
like that. And she was looking across the table at me going you didn't tell me
00:13:27
that. I was like, "Oh, I think it's me protecting uh protecting her, protecting the kids
00:13:34
that when I go out that door in the morning or emergency services staff go out the door that morning that um they
00:13:41
don't need to be exposed to some of the things that we are and it's more out of
00:13:46
protectiveness than anything. So, um yeah, I can't confess or I can't say
00:13:51
that I'm a great communicator, but >> um I'm trying to be better. >> You're working on it?"
00:13:56
>> Yeah. Well, we've been going for 13 minutes. You're doing great so far.
00:13:59
>> Yeah. Yeah. 13 minutes communication. Yeah. Right. [laughter] I might close
00:14:02
that vault soon, so you better hurry up for some questions you want to ask. >> Okay. Right. Right. Okay. Um Yeah. July
00:14:09
20, 2023. Run us through that day. So, you you wake up. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, wake up like normal. I
00:14:16
was And there are certain things that I I can't and won't be um telling. It's still before the coroner.
00:14:25
Um, and it's still an ongoing sort of investigation in that way. But I can tell you from my point of view. Um, and
00:14:31
and just a good point too that um I I'll I'll tell my side of the story uh what I
00:14:37
felt saw this that and the other, but there's [snorts] a whole lot of other great police staff, my colleagues, my
00:14:44
friends that ran into that building that day, emergency services staff that turned up and did a fantastic job, the
00:14:50
the doctors and everyone. So, this is sort of my story, my take on it, but just to acknowledge that there was heaps
00:14:57
of other legends out there that [snorts] um that ran into that building to help out people that day. So, um we turned up
00:15:05
at Manau just as usual. That's where we were based. We had a small team. Um,
00:15:09
[snorts] and I was drinking this smoothie that I usually this green smoothie that I've
00:15:14
had every day pretty much that I'm in the police and I was drinking that away
00:15:17
and then we hear over the radio that there's um someone been shot in the CBD.
00:15:23
Um and and we sort of just started to monitor it because our role in that particular group at the moment at that
00:15:30
time was to respond to high-risk um complex issues and and to help out with some of the tactical skills, equipment
00:15:37
and and knowledge that we had um to assist the front line. So we're listening to this and we start sort of
00:15:43
kitting up a little bit and um and then we hear that he's he's still out there
00:15:49
and he's and he's still shooting. Um, so we're like this is this is us. Um, we're
00:15:55
into it. So I jump in our car and I'll leave my smoothie and and the I just mention that cuz they stink like
00:16:02
[snorts] protein shakers and that stink and it was left in there afterwards, right? Cuz I couldn't go back funny
00:16:07
enough. Um, but uh so we jump in the car and we're going there from Manau and and
00:16:13
it I've described it before like in in a Mario Kart, you know, we were in and out
00:16:18
and and it was it was busy traffic. It was what 7:00 8:00 in the morning or something [snorts] and I the boys in the
00:16:25
car just go faster [laughter] go quicker quicker the drive I'm like man unless
00:16:30
you're going to fly you're not getting us there quicker but we were in and out
00:16:33
of barriers we were bloody pushing through everywhere and but [snorts] then on a serious note we're hearing he he's
00:16:42
the offender still shooting still shooting cop shot cop shot we're hearing cop shot
00:16:49
>> um and we're like, "Yeah." So, we're um we're putting on our hel uh our helmets
00:16:56
um making sure that we're all clear on on what our aim is and and we just go
00:17:00
into um job mode, you know, like we train we train a lot and and and we train for these situations, you know,
00:17:09
it's never going to be uh by the book, but uh we start ticking over what's our
00:17:14
aim, what do we need to do, start thinking about um uh how we're going to deal with this. So, we arrived at the
00:17:20
bottom of Queen Street there. I don't know the state of our car, but um we jumped out and and uh sort of threw a
00:17:29
helmet to the driver and it was one of the boys that had a big head. Uh so, I think he put it on. It was a bit loose.
00:17:36
I was like, "Just wear it, man." Um we jumped to the boot of the the car. Um
00:17:42
you can sort of hear the the gunshots. Um, I put a a sledgehammer down the the back
00:17:50
of my um body armor. One of the boys throws a a a medkit on his back and then we sort of take off to to an
00:18:00
area where we think we can start getting up into this building. Um, and a couple of things along the way
00:18:07
that I remembered, like you could hear these gunshots and there was people still getting out
00:18:13
their phones and recording us. Uh, and there was a Tik Tok at the time of me and my colleagues and my mates sort of
00:18:21
sort of running into that building and that could have been the last bloody video of us alive, you know.
00:18:28
Um, so we're still hearing at this point I recall another cop shot whether they
00:18:36
were hit or not, but um the offender was making their way up to the top of the building and so we enter through the
00:18:43
bottom and get to a stairwell and we start going up and um I recall people just coming back the
00:18:50
other way and and victims or blood over their hands or white I remember a white shirt and
00:18:58
covered in blood and and and our our mission is to effectively stop the stop the killing at this point. So we have to
00:19:06
say to these people that are asking for our help, just go that way. Go that way.
00:19:10
You know, we need to move forward to to [snorts] neutralize any threat or or to contain the situation, right? Um so
00:19:19
we're running up the stairs and I'm seeing this and and we're going,
00:19:24
"Yeah, okay. This is You can hear [clears throat] the banging still. And um I remember getting halfway up and and
00:19:31
our and our ballistic glasses, they were really really fogged. Um and I was like,
00:19:37
"Oh, usually in some of the training um but we're better at it now. We just dump
00:19:43
the bloody glasses, you know, cuz if you can't see, you can't >> it's it's harder to make good
00:19:48
decisions." And so I just asked one of the the the mates just to cover forward
00:19:52
and I and I wiped it off. And I I I raised that point because that's potentially probably what saved my eye.
00:19:59
Uh because I did take that 10 seconds to to wipe it off, which I'm yeah, a lucky
00:20:06
guy again, I suppose. But then [snorts] we carried on up and we got to the 20th floor and as I said a lot of other
00:20:11
awesome people ran into that building that day to help out and said hello to a couple of the boys and and then we'd
00:20:18
sort of um we we'd identify where he was. So we'd contained him but we hadn't isolated the
00:20:27
offender and we knew that he at this point was from the building. Um, and if he, my thinking was if he gets out and
00:20:34
runs through those hundreds and thousands of people in the bottom of Queen Street,
00:20:39
we're not going to be doing our job very well if we if we, if we get it to this
00:20:43
point, right? So, um, um, me and my team, we sort of we sprint run back down to the 18th floor cuz the idea is just
00:20:51
sort of to my my thinking is we'll contain him in this lift shaft to uh, start negotiating with him, you know. Uh
00:20:58
even at that point, I'm thinking let let's let's start getting some dialogue
00:21:03
and let's bloody talk him talk him out here and uh that's the idea. If we can
00:21:07
cord him and contain him, then we can appeal him to come out. We get down there and one end of the
00:21:13
lift shaft because they're quite it's a construction site. Um and uh so that the
00:21:20
doors of the um lifts aren't there. There's big um bits of plywood on on top
00:21:27
of it. So, one end we needed to get up and and have a look to see if we can see him and and then we can start doing what
00:21:34
we we need to do. And we we crack open that door and have a bit of a look up and I can sort of see or hear something,
00:21:42
but not enough to sort of start talking or anything like that. And so, someone holds that area um of the team holds
00:21:51
that area so he doesn't come out and in there. And then we go run down to the
00:21:55
other end and do the same thing. So, as the doors opening, [snorts] tuck into the wall, and as I'm coming
00:22:02
out to have a look, cuz I last saw him or or saw movement and and heard something up. [sighs]
00:22:09
So, I'm coming around and this 360 sort of opening within this lift [snorts]
00:22:13
shaft. And I'm like, well, need to get in there to find out if where he is. and
00:22:19
and I'm looking up and as I come around the corner he's made his way um down the
00:22:25
shift lift shaft and I think like uh my ground level there was a scaffold perhaps a meter from my memory down um
00:22:34
and my firearms been raised um and as I've started coming off that sort of corner um that's where he's just shot
00:22:43
underneath my firearm taking that finger and getting my face And um I thought [ __ ] [ __ ] [laughter] shot in
00:22:53
the face. Um and >> really is that the first thing [clears throat] you think?
00:22:57
>> Oh, >> you just shocked. Yeah, I suppose shocked and it it was just like I I I recall just
00:23:07
the teeth, you know, the shattered and grittiness in my mouth and and then I think sort of the training still
00:23:16
[snorts] comes in a little bit. Um cuz then a medic uh a maid of mine sort of helps me get over to a corner and
00:23:27
and and and I'm just like have I got any other injuries? Have I got any other
00:23:31
injuries? They take my body armor off and they do a sweep and cuz I was thinking, [ __ ] if I've got one in the
00:23:37
arm or or something, we might have to have a a torn or something like that. I just need to get to a point that I can
00:23:44
get out of this building, right? and he said, "Um, oh no, the no other obvious
00:23:50
injuries." Um, so I used some bad language. I said, "Well, let's get the
00:23:54
[ __ ] out of here." >> Um, got up and and and I I think I can't even this. So, this is how important
00:24:03
training is and repetitiveness. And it's not it's done nothing saved me on this
00:24:08
occasion, but I yell cover me because I needed to move from one dangerous place to another. and I needed my mates to to
00:24:16
cover me. So, yelled that. And then we went to the um the stairs and and I I just ran out of the ran down the stairs
00:24:25
and uh got outside and and someone said to me, "Oh, do you want the helicopter
00:24:30
or the um or the ambulance?" And I just said, "I don't [ __ ] care. I've just
00:24:36
been shot in the face." So, I got ushered over to um the ambulance. [snorts] Um, and as I came out of the
00:24:45
building, I saw uh cameras and I was like, man, I cover my face. So, there are a number of images of me lifting my
00:24:54
shirt up. >> You've actually got a photo. Is this the moment >> you prepared earlier? That's exactly it.
00:24:59
So, I've sort of pulled the shirt up to try and hide my face. And >> why is that?
00:25:04
>> Well, cuz I saw cameras there and I was like, well, one, I don't know what's
00:25:08
going on here. Um, and that gives me sort of a few little goosebumps. But as it turns out, the reason why I was
00:25:16
thinking it is exactly the reason why I didn't want to be on camera. My my two
00:25:20
sons were sitting on the couch at home. Nikki [snorts] was helping them with their shoes. And on the screen is this
00:25:28
being streamed live. And um my oldest boy goes, "Oh, look, Mom. There's a
00:25:32
police officer with um uh steam and blood coming off him." So, she sort of turns around, has a little look, and um
00:25:41
just turns it off. She saw me in my blue uniform as opposed to the black uniform.
00:25:46
And I think she just disregarded that it could have been me. I'm not too sure,
00:25:50
but uh that's the exact reason why I was like, "What could have been?" You know,
00:25:55
that could have been the last time that my son saw me in in those sort of circumstances.
00:26:01
>> How old were your boys? >> Uh they were eight and six >> or thereabouts. It's it's crazy that
00:26:08
you're um you've been you've been shot in the shot in the jaw and you were
00:26:11
still thinking about them. >> Oh, >> thinking about other things. >> Yeah, 100%. And that's and my wife tells
00:26:20
some like about my mind what I was thinking at the time. You know, she says that she walked in uh and the first
00:26:27
thing I asked her was, "Did you park the car?" Okay. And I'm like, "Don't
00:26:31
[laughter] worry about that." And then I'm like, "Well, how are the boys?" you know, um
00:26:36
and um yeah, and and although I'm not a good communicator, I think it's very
00:26:43
clear to people that know me that that my boys are my everything. And um it's
00:26:48
pretty easy to get up in the morning when you know that you you're you need to be a role model to them and and to to
00:26:54
help shape them into being good humans. So, um, uh, then we jumped in the the ambulance and made our way to Oakland
00:27:02
Hospital and, uh, and then the decision was made to put me in an induced coma where I was
00:27:09
in for three or 4 days. Um, and then woke up from there, ICU. Some interesting times in there.
00:27:17
>> What do you mean? >> Oh, I was just Well, cuz I hadn't had time to process it. So I sort of came
00:27:22
out and I I was nurse would drop a drop a bottle and I I'd sort of sit up or um
00:27:32
uh the way that ICU is I hope not too many people have experienced it that that are listening but you're facing
00:27:39
inward uh to a to a wall and behind you is a corridor so you don't actually know
00:27:44
what's going on behind you. Um, and I just remember sort of being like and and
00:27:50
just being like, "Nikki, are you okay? Nikki, you okay? She's just going to go
00:27:53
get a drink. Are you okay?" And I was just really hyper sensitive for everything and in ICU. But again, a
00:28:00
shout out to all those nurses and everyone in there just fantastic. Hey, fantastic. And and you you hear about it
00:28:08
all the time, but I can just double down on that. the the help the people [snorts] uh my surgeon since then uh
00:28:15
Jamie Olson uh we we text a bit and he he's looked after me since along with
00:28:21
with other people but he's been my primary career for for reconstruction and this that and the other and man he's
00:28:27
done an awesome job and >> but uh yeah that hyp hyper sensitivity was didn't wasn't helped by they took me
00:28:34
one down one morning there was an issue with my lung like inhaled some shrapnel or something like that and they needed
00:28:42
to go and I don't know some big long word lapis something to get it out of the lung. Yeah. Yeah. [snorts] Never
00:28:49
you're a cop, not a surgery. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. If I Yeah. If I
00:28:53
can't say it, I don't even know it. Um, and and it was like 5:00 in the morning
00:28:59
and I wasn't sleeping very well in there and it wasn't because of anything that
00:29:03
happened because I run quite hot and I was in the thing and and it's quite warm
00:29:08
in there and I'm quite tall so the beds aren't long enough and then they had to
00:29:12
had the head up because they wanted to make sure that I was swallowing and doing all this sort of stuff. So I kept
00:29:17
sliding off the bed so I was I was te couldn't have proper sleep. [laughter]
00:29:22
Yes, I had a 4 day snooze, but and I was sliding down, so I was a bit jaded and um and they took me down and I'm I'm
00:29:30
lying there and and then they put me in a lift and I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] back back
00:29:34
here." you know, and then it goes ding at the other end and the door opens and
00:29:40
it's a construction site at um uh the Oakland Hospital and there's the sign
00:29:47
from place makers or whatever exactly the same that what I saw when I ran into that building and I just started
00:29:53
laughing and the audiing [laughter] me into this construction site 5 days after. Yeah. I was like, "Ah, if you
00:30:06
don't laugh, you cry, right?" Uh, but yeah, lots of little things that I
00:30:10
reflect on and and look back on. But, >> um, yeah, the par did you feel like your
00:30:14
life was in danger? The paramedics thought you you may not make it, eh? >> Yeah.
00:30:18
>> Did you Did you feel like your your life was hanging in the balance? >> Well, you just been shot in the face. I
00:30:23
thought that I might have been in a bit of trouble. Um, but I I don't think I
00:30:26
let myself go to that point. Um, even when I was in the coma, they had to strap my arms to the bed because I I
00:30:36
kept trying to get up and keep moving. So, I think from very early on that I was going to do everything in my power
00:30:43
not to let this be it. Um, but certainly I think a paramedic or someone since who cuz my
00:30:52
wife Nikki's retraining now to to join St. John, but um had said at the time
00:30:57
they thought it was a bit touch and go. Um >> and yeah, I think I just straight went
00:31:03
into remember how I said don't not looking back. It it was straight into what's next next next minute, next hour,
00:31:10
next day. And that's sort of how I'm wired and um >> it served you well.
00:31:15
>> Well, yeah. in this particular occasion, right? Mental resilience through
00:31:18
physical exercise. I just know that hard shit's going to happen and it's how you
00:31:22
respond to it and that's how Yeah. Sometimes a bit easier said than done, but man, you got to try.
00:31:27
>> Eh, >> yeah. I I love that. There's a saying I really like. Hard hard choice, easy
00:31:31
life. Easy choice, hard life. >> And and it is it is. And I I just think my my circumstances puts a bit of
00:31:41
context behind it and puts a bit of reality and it's not just a something that's flashed up on on social media.
00:31:47
It's actually this this it works. >> Yeah. >> If you can get it right.
00:31:53
>> Um do you remember the the first time you were reunited with um Nikki or the
00:31:57
boys? >> Yeah. So again, I So Nikki didn't allow anyone in. Um uh I that might have annoyed uh my
00:32:11
parents and stuff a bit and well it didn't cuz they were fine and they understand they know who I am, but I
00:32:16
don't like being seen as a victim um or or really vulnerable like that. And Nikki knew that and I
00:32:25
appreciate that decision that she made. Um, so no one came in um for for a long time, but when um when I woke up, yeah,
00:32:34
Nick was there and um >> How was that? >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I did hear
00:32:40
again not a good communicator and she's probably hearing it for the first time.
00:32:45
She she she's been my rock. And there was times there where I was just like cuz the visitors could
00:32:51
only come in after 10:00 in the morning or something like that and I'd just be
00:32:55
like counting down the counting down the minutes being like when can you get in here? When you can be in here even if
00:33:00
she was just sitting there and stuff like that. So um yeah. Yeah. No, it was just another
00:33:11
reason why you get up be grateful. Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Um even though you don't like being seen
00:33:18
as um as a victim or like in a vulnerable state, did you Yeah. Did you Were your boys allowed to see you?
00:33:24
>> So I didn't want them to No, I didn't. And and this this could be Yeah. quite
00:33:28
odd. So I didn't see them till I I got home from hospital. Um I we dealt with
00:33:35
it in a way cuz that was my first concern too around how we're going to deal with this. And we've been very very
00:33:40
honest with the boys. Um and uh from day one, but but again at that point I I I sort of made the
00:33:52
decision with Nikki, but just wait till I get home. You know, at that point after I came out of the coma and they
00:34:00
started to get a bigger picture, I think at that point we knew that I was going to certainly pull through. I think
00:34:06
>> barring unforeseen um complication but um yeah made that decision and and when we
00:34:15
went back when I got home that that was that was something else you know like when they embrace you and they don't say
00:34:23
anything and these boys don't shut up at the best of times. So for them to be
00:34:26
silent and hugging me and and how tightly they did and then I just looked down and there's sort of tears just
00:34:33
quietly going down their face and um is is just something else you know and um ever since then we were like I I
00:34:44
started getting up straight away making their their their lunches and trying to get back to normality as quickly as I
00:34:51
could and they they were sort of feeding off off us a little bit that I'd wake up in the morning because
00:34:57
I couldn't talk very well and and obviously at that time I was relatively disfigured and it wasn't very pleasant
00:35:03
to to look at or what is pleasant to look at now. I'm I'm certainly not as
00:35:08
vain as I used to be. Um and they would be like in the morning like Scooter my younger boy would be a dad your voice is
00:35:17
sounding a lot better. And I'm like, I spoke to you 9 hours ago, but that they
00:35:21
were trying to do that positivity or they'd run in from work from school and
00:35:25
go kind of go, "Oh, it looks way better now, Dad." And I'm like, "Oh, thanks,
00:35:29
buddy's really." But like and and that's um that that's something that I think
00:35:38
I'm I'm really proud of that that we could try and from a very early stage
00:35:43
and it's not always easy to do to try and show that get up and go um and and
00:35:51
do what you can, you know. Um, so that's yeah, I snuck out and uh cuz Nikki was
00:35:58
working at home at the time and I was I was pretty d I was dribbly for ages, man. [laughter] And then I was like, now
00:36:04
this is part of I need to get a haircut, you know, like I need a haircut. So I snuck out. I don't know if I was
00:36:08
supposed to be driving down to the haircut and I [snorts] walk in and the hairdressers all look at me and I'm
00:36:14
like, just give me a haircut. sitting there all dribbling in the [laughter] in the headresses and I was like cuz I was
00:36:21
wearing bibs you know and they put the thing around here I was like I just got to hold it in enough that it doesn't
00:36:25
dribble down to there. They gave me my haircut and I'm sure they they left a
00:36:30
bit like they didn't go near around here either and but it was just my let's look
00:36:35
sharp or look tidy and and when you can it was part of that just let's start
00:36:40
getting in proper clothing like I got Nikki to bring in clothing pretty early on rather than the the
00:36:45
>> hospital G hospital gown. It was just one of those things you know like yep
00:36:48
I'm going to have a nice clean t-shirt on. Well I couldn't really get a t-shirt
00:36:52
over but like clothes on and stuff like that. So yeah. >> Um I mean this paints a picture of like
00:36:59
who you are and [clears throat] it's um you're you're a fairly tough bastard. Do
00:37:02
you do you think um it was tougher for you or for them? >> Yeah, I I I always think it's tougher
00:37:09
for other people, you know, like this is something that I'm in control of and and
00:37:13
I can do. So I was always very mindful of that. Um and we've just got to be a bit careful
00:37:20
with how the boys deal with it. especially my oldest boy um with some of the thing. He's a really deep thinker
00:37:27
and um they think about it more than they show. like dropped them off at a holiday program once and and they met up
00:37:35
with a kid that they obviously didn't know from school and and they'd been
00:37:38
talking about and they obviously said, "Oh, dad got shot in the face." And and
00:37:42
and the other kid challenged it like, "Well, no, no one gets shot in the face
00:37:45
and lives." You know, and and then the the first thing they say to me when they
00:37:50
get in the car, "Oh, Dad Bo said if you get shot in the face, you don't live."
00:37:53
And I'm like, "You think I'm think I'm making this [ __ ] up, mate?" [laughter]
00:37:58
Anyway, oh no, no, no, no. And then we get home and um they're out on their skateboard or something and then and
00:38:05
they're like, "Dad, how come nanny told us it was a it was a BB gun to start off
00:38:10
with?" And it's still them just ch what what is actually So [snorts] lots go on
00:38:16
in their head. So that's going to be uh so to answer your question, is it tougher for them than us? For me, then
00:38:23
it's just as tough. It's just as tough. Um, and even a Nikki jokes about it, but
00:38:29
suppose I could use this opportunity for a little bit of a an apology how when I
00:38:34
do get hangry, you know, um, during those times where I'm not sleeping, not eating, I'm in a bit [snorts] of pain,
00:38:39
and I guess I wasn't the happiest chap to be around. So, >> um, it's tough for them on a on a number
00:38:46
of levels, I think. >> Yeah, I'm sure they understand. You you tend to save your worst behavior for the
00:38:50
people you love the most. It's just how it works. >> Well, I love them then.
00:38:54
>> Yeah. No. [laughter] Um, >> yeah, crack into that. Crack into that
00:38:58
Firebird. >> Um, how did the how did the recovery log? >> Um, how many operations?
00:39:06
>> Uh, well, I think I think there's been about 14 sort of procedures and Jamie
00:39:12
was saying the other day that there was about six major operations. So, um, a lot of it was done sort of early days,
00:39:21
uh, with the, um, sort of the reconstruction and stuff like that, but a lot of the sort of
00:39:28
teeth work and and the damaged, um, bone underneath. We've had a couple of u uh, attempts at trying to remold it
00:39:40
and and um, Jamie's like, "Well, we just sort of got to try this." and and it's
00:39:45
sort of new, relatively new sort of playing field for them, but again, he's done an amazing job and I'm forever
00:39:51
grateful. So, um yeah, I I suppose it's just yeah, you're back in and then you I if I see another soup in my
00:40:01
life, mate. Oh, Jesus. [laughter] Cuz then you're on the soups and [ __ ] Um but yeah, so it has hopefully only
00:40:09
one more to go. um and and then get some teeth and hopefully get that clearance um full
00:40:20
clearance to go back to my operational role in the police. So um yeah. >> Were there ever moments where [ __ ] you
00:40:30
just like alone in the shower or you're you're out going for a walk or something
00:40:33
and you just have like a quiet cry to yourself? >> Yeah. I don't no I don't think I don't think I have on
00:40:46
on that level and and I'm not concerned about that but it is something in the
00:40:51
back of my mind of at the moment how sort of steely I am about it all and and and sort of how
00:40:59
steely I am to a lot of other things. Um, I think I have got a lot of empathy for others and stuff like that, but I've
00:41:09
got a very that's life, what will be will be attitude at the moment. Um, so just another thing that I need to
00:41:17
deal with. So, not so much a uh something like that. No. >> Um, what about therapy? Did you see a
00:41:27
therapist after >> Yeah, I spoke to a psychologist for for a few rounds and
00:41:31
>> this the first first time this is the psychologist that you were ignoring
00:41:35
earlier. >> Wow. Yeah, [laughter] >> it's going to come back and bite you.
00:41:39
>> Oh, 100%. I was like, "Oh my god." Um, yeah. No. So, yeah, it was really good
00:41:46
just to >> I don't know, >> just offload. >> Just offload. Absolutely. Did you find
00:41:51
it hard to go in there and talk to a stranger about some >> um not so much? This particular
00:41:57
psychologist had spoke to a few of my colleagues um and and had it was uh is a police or or
00:42:08
um works with the police um and incidents like this and and others. So I was sort of comfortable enough that
00:42:15
she'd sort of understood. But what I did like about it was she was not being all airy fairy about it. Um, I
00:42:26
know you need a bit of eerie fairy, but she was like, cuz I was like, stuff this. I want I want back, you know, and
00:42:32
she was like that this is this is how you wide, you know, and people are telling you that, oh, this that and the
00:42:38
other and man, you can't go. And I'm like, I remember driving to a psychologist one day and I and I had my
00:42:45
work phone there and when you get a pager, it goes, those who know will know. And um I
00:42:52
started exhilarating and and I was like starting to drive towards the squad room. I was like I was like, "Holy, I'm
00:42:58
driving to my therapist after being shot in the face and I'm still trying to hone
00:43:02
in to get to a bit of action, you know, or [laughter] and I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] I
00:43:06
told her this." And she's like, "Oh man, like it's just it's
00:43:11
it's abnormally normal, you know?" And and that's what I did like about that. Um, I
00:43:17
didn't like any eerie fairy stuff and just acknowledged what I was saying. So,
00:43:21
it was really good. >> Any sort of PTSD or anything? >> Uh, I can't say at the moment. No. Um,
00:43:31
>> no. I just have to be mindful how much I'm parking underneath the lid. Um,
00:43:37
but not so much. I've got a yeah, a great family. my whole family, my friends, uh my my work colleagues and
00:43:46
mates and and we've got a small small group of like-minded individuals that have been through some stuff together
00:43:53
and we occasionally go away and have a couple of rums and let a bit out and and that's that's I see that pretty
00:44:00
healthy as well. So >> the um the gunman uh 24 year old I believe he he killed two of his
00:44:07
colleagues and there were like 10 injured in total. Um, and then he turned the gun on himself. How how do you how
00:44:14
do you feel about him? Like is is it anger, indifference? >> Yeah. Uh, >> you hate the guy?
00:44:20
>> No. No. No. Um, and this is going to sound weird to be honest. And um, no, I don't. Like one one thing that
00:44:30
sort of got me a little bit was it was months after cuz I didn't know who and
00:44:34
and and I'm not even going to even go go there as much but when I saw his 24 I
00:44:39
was like man what a waste you know like uh but and this is going to I don't know
00:44:45
how this gets taken but but I don't you know like um I've never been one to
00:44:53
hold that like terrible decisions terrible decisions to say the least. But absolutely no
00:45:02
resentment or and and the the the loved ones of the people that didn't make it might feel different
00:45:09
and and and and rightly so. For me, I think part of moving forward is um uh not holding on to that. That's
00:45:20
that's just for me. And um Nikki sort of summed it up quite well and and sort of
00:45:27
um put it probably is the same way that I look at it that um I don't believe he
00:45:34
was shooting a father, a husband, a child, a friend like Yeah. in a in a in a personal way like that. And
00:45:47
>> and I suppose that's one way just to go well. >> Yeah, it that's what happened. And um
00:45:56
yeah. No, >> [ __ ] You've got a good attitude. Um Nikki must be so proud of you. Is she?
00:46:03
>> Oh, I I think so. I think so. But um >> not just for what you've what you've
00:46:08
been through, but um just how you've grown as a person in um in the recovery
00:46:13
since then. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. I I hope so. Um, at the end of the day, and and I've said it, I get up in
00:46:23
the morning for Nikki and the boys. So, I hope those I hope they [laughter] and and and I'd do anything for them,
00:46:31
you know. Um, but still acknowledging that along the way that it's been challenging cuz you said at the start
00:46:37
that you you take take your your grumpiness and on the ones you love, right? like her. Um but
00:46:45
hopefully I still Yeah, still working on on everything. But um she >> Yeah, I think she's proud.
00:46:54
>> Are you proud of yourself? >> Um yeah. Well, I think I'll look back at it
00:47:03
and be proud on how we've how I've I've handled it and and I I think and I hope
00:47:10
that's going to be seen through the way that the kids grow up um and the people
00:47:15
that I sort of um associate with and our community and my family and stuff like that if if
00:47:23
they're proud. Um but it's just yeah it's a unique circumstances and I
00:47:31
acknowledge that now um but also in the same vein I acknowledge that uh we all go through our [ __ ] you know
00:47:40
we all go through tough times um and this is nowhere near some of the battles that people have been through are going
00:47:48
through and will go through. Uh [snorts] but I tell the I I tell the yarn to give
00:47:54
if I can a little bit of hope of of yeah, don't look back, you'll get a crook neck and and be grateful for what
00:48:00
you've got. Don't dwell the whatifs and um and and a little bit of hope that
00:48:05
like Firebird is an illustration of getting up and keep moving and and and and working through a
00:48:17
little bit of adversity. So, um I hope in my latter years I can look back if I'm lucky enough to get there
00:48:26
and be proud of of this period of my life. But it is a period of my life and and and I'm excited to what could be the
00:48:35
next >> thing, you know. Um um I'm just grateful that I've got the
00:48:40
opportunity to give it a go. >> Yeah. Well, we're almost 50 minutes in.
00:48:44
We haven't even touched upon Firebird yet, so we'll we'll get to that chapter.
00:48:47
But um >> yeah, just I mean just sitting in front of you and and um yeah, listening to you
00:48:52
speak, I can tell you would have been a a great cop. >> What um what drew you to the police in
00:48:56
the first place? >> Um fast cars and catching bad guys. No, [laughter] there's an element of that. No, I won't
00:49:02
be. But I I I I think an underlining drive to to to help people. And I won't
00:49:08
go there like I'm this big special person that gets up every morning to help people. But at the end of the day
00:49:14
when when you do see a victim that sort of, oh, thank you for your involvement or you turn up to a they might not even
00:49:21
have to say it, but you turn up to an incident where that's it's one of their
00:49:24
worst days of their life and you can positively impact that by some of your decision making, your calm head. And
00:49:29
that's what draws me back, I think, of that real adrenaline of turning up to
00:49:34
chaos. Um, and and having a a calm, controlled manner in the way that you react to that. Um, and and and that's
00:49:45
got to be a drive, too. Like at the end of it, you've helped someone out. Um, as
00:49:51
I said, they might not say that they they thank you, but they've sort of got
00:49:54
a look in their eye. And um and and when it comes to some of the the tough stuff
00:50:00
when you're advising family members or that there's suicides or you're dealing
00:50:05
with victims of very serious harm, if you how would you like your family members or loved ones to be dealt with
00:50:13
by by the police, by authorities, and if you can show empathy and be empathetic for their situation without having been
00:50:21
in it, that's a really nice feeling, too. So, um, lots of things that sort of
00:50:27
Yep. Um, bad guys, fast cars, cool stuff. But, but the underlining is, [clears throat] I think, truly is to to
00:50:36
try and help people. >> Does that piece get easier knocking on someone's door and telling someone that
00:50:42
a family member or a loved one has passed away? >> Yeah. Abs. Absolutely not. And then
00:50:46
there's just different times in your life too. Like prek kids might certainly wouldn't have been as
00:50:52
bad as if you you turn up now and you you're dealing with someone that's
00:50:57
roughly your kid's age and going through it. But um just yeah what the what emergency services do and and this is my
00:51:06
part but that's what they have to do on on the other side of it that I think
00:51:10
isn't quite understood some the time without going into that part of it but like there there are some stuff that the
00:51:17
police uh in particular have to do that that isn't seen on the outside um that
00:51:24
that we have to deal with and work through and and 99.9% % of uh the time we're really doing it
00:51:32
for for for the right reasons and and the good reasons. So yeah. >> What was the worst day on the job before
00:51:39
July 2023? >> Well, it's funny cuz sometimes the worst days are the best days. Um
00:51:47
uh yeah, like someone has to have a bad day for you to have a good day, but [laughter] um it's it's it's not the
00:51:55
case. But that there were I think back and and I'm fortunate that this most recent incident sort of
00:52:04
happened um in my career and the time of my life as it did to help me deal with it. But like
00:52:12
we we had been sort of we'd been shot at multiple times prior to this incident.
00:52:18
We been in situations where pretty pretty hairy situations, you know, and and but I think you again build
00:52:25
resilience out of those and coming out the other side. But from a from a a really difficult point of view, would
00:52:31
have been about 4 years into the job. I' I'd been to about five or six really bad
00:52:35
suicides in a week. And um >> Wow. >> I went away from there and and and and I
00:52:42
was only I be mid to late 20s at that time. And um I started getting these heart pulpitations and I I was I was
00:52:51
really concerned. you know, I went to the doctor and they did all my sort of um my vitals. They took me to to
00:52:58
Middlemore and and and over a span of about a couple of weeks and did all this testing. And then I got called into the
00:53:04
doctors and >> [snorts] >> uh he said to me, "Oh, um look, you you
00:53:10
you're physically absolutely fine. You're very very healthy." I was thinking, "Well, why am I getting
00:53:16
these bloody go on mate? That ain't normal. Why?" And then and then I drive home and and I'm going
00:53:24
down Tangi Drive and I go what's what's cuz I'm I really try and be quite
00:53:29
practical like reason and and and I and I I identified that these heart pulpitations started
00:53:38
immediately after this really quite tough week. Um and since identifying that I I hadn't had one since. Um, so
00:53:47
and and and I got to say like there are heart problems and you need it's not
00:53:51
just in your head but on this particular occasion that was that anxiety or whatever it was manifesting in a
00:53:58
physical manner. Um, and then for the rest of my career I hadn't had one and
00:54:02
then I think I think maybe once since this most recent incident I started having them
00:54:10
again but was able to flick it back over. So, um, yeah, I don't know. They just sort of
00:54:16
mold you and make you who you are today. But, um, yeah, it's a crazy job, eh? I mean, it's a job
00:54:28
that someone has to do, but like I'm I'm 52. The only time I've seen a dead body
00:54:32
is my nana in an open casket. You were just dealing with this on a daily. >> You as in the New Zealand police.
00:54:39
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. and and and you you hear it from a number of police
00:54:45
emergency services staff. You see, you have to deal with things that um that a lot of the public just have no
00:54:52
idea it is part of society. Um like who would have thought that you had to carry do you carry Vaseline around in
00:55:01
your in your day bag just in case you come across a decomposing dead body, you put a bit of Vaseline on your upper lip
00:55:08
so you don't have to smell it. You know, like there's >> Oh, Vix Vex. rubber. [laughter] Rubber.
00:55:12
>> Yeah. On the upper lip. So, you don't have to smell some bad smells, but at
00:55:17
the end of the day, again, um well, I won't say you're privileged and in dealing with it, but someone's got to
00:55:25
do it right. Um and if you can do it to the best of your ability, then [snorts] um that that's going to be telling for
00:55:31
for the family and and the loved ones of whatever you're dealing with. So, >> did you ever consider the army or SAS or
00:55:38
anything? >> No, not so much. I feel like you would have been you you would have you would
00:55:42
have frothed at something like hell week. >> Yeah. Well, it floats my boat. I was a
00:55:46
cabinet maker before becoming before joining the police and and I love that. Um sort of just came to the end of
00:55:54
[snorts] where that was at that time and um with with a lot of the imports our our solid wood furniture um it was just
00:56:03
being less desirable because it was too expensive and you can get cheaper option. But I I love that too. today
00:56:07
though. Um >> so so after the shooting um you're recovering and then I mean why didn't
00:56:14
you just go back to cabinet making? >> Um oh that that that's that's passed. I've
00:56:22
got >> Mhm. >> Well, I could fill in my time with Firebird cuz I I wanted to go back to
00:56:26
police very early on and I and I sort of tried to but then realized that the the
00:56:34
recovery process and everything that needed to be done was going to be longer. >> Um but in those early days sort of
00:56:41
[snorts] yeah we were came up with fiber that sort of filled that hole at that time. Yeah, I suppose that's why I ask
00:56:46
about the cabinet making thing because um after going through something as traumatic as that, I suppose the easiest
00:56:50
thing to do would be something you already know, something that you used to do instead of like launching a business.
00:56:56
>> Like come on. Especially in the beverage space, like it's an impossibly
00:57:00
competitive market. >> Okay, so yeah, let's get on to this now. So um >> yeah, how does a cop who gets um shot in
00:57:07
the jaw um suddenly end up creating a protein coffee brand? >> Oh, isn't that the logical thing to do?
00:57:15
my go back to cabinet making. >> Yeah. Yeah. No. Okay. Okay. Um, no. So, so when I was recovering, so I had a
00:57:23
large hole in my face as you could probably imagine. I couldn't eat like I couldn't chew. I couldn't have hot
00:57:29
stuff. One, I don't know if it was the thermal burns, but also like I couldn't
00:57:33
feel in there. So, I was a little bit dangerous to have hot stuff cuz I wouldn't be able to have any feeling.
00:57:39
And I couldn't drink large. like when I was drinking I I we talked earlier about
00:57:43
having a bib cuz I did it would just end up down the front of me half of it would
00:57:47
go in the rest of it was down the front of me and um so I started and and I've
00:57:52
always always like coffee if I if I get to 9 10:00 without a coffee I get a sort
00:57:58
of a headache or something like that. So caffeine's always and coffee has always
00:58:02
been part of my lifestyle and protein has too. Um and and knowing the importance of protein as a macronutrient
00:58:09
or um something that we need young, old, other. So I've always been I've always
00:58:15
taken supplementary uh protein. So anyway, I couldn't just have coffee and and I wanted to get this protein in. So
00:58:22
I started making them at home. So, in my shaker, a little bit of ice, um a pod, coffee, um a little bit of water, and a
00:58:30
scoop of protein. And I was living off these things and went into the surgeon one day and he goes, "Oh, you your your
00:58:37
recoveries are remarkable." Or something along those lines. Really, really good
00:58:40
or whatever it may be. And I was sort of ingested, oh, it's the protein coffees,
00:58:44
Doc. And had a bit of a laugh. Anyway, I was living off these things and wanted to go back to the police and it was
00:58:51
going to be longer than I wanted to because I'm I'm I'm relatively impatient
00:58:55
in this sort of stuff, I must admit. But [snorts] so, and Nikki tells the story how I I
00:59:02
would have been high on on prescription Tremodol after an operation and and I sort of was
00:59:09
lying on the couch and I was I said to her, I'm [snorts] I'm going to make
00:59:12
protein coffee. And she sort of I remember it. She rolled her eyes. She couldn't hide it. She rolled her
00:59:19
eyes and was like, "Ah, you pro, you probably are." >> How long after the shooting was this?
00:59:23
>> Uh, this would have only been uh 8 months. I think I created the business
00:59:31
in February, March 2024. >> Incredible. Cuz most people would have this idea. 99% of people would have the
00:59:38
idea and then just leave it at that. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Wow. >> But where do where do you begin?
00:59:43
>> Yeah. Well, and and that's just it because it was beginning. I've got no
00:59:46
experience in in grocery, no experience in business. >> Are there any transferable skills
00:59:52
between poling and >> I think so. Like communication being one. I said I'm not a good at
00:59:57
communicator, but when when we're talking back and forth, I think being open in your communication is very very
01:00:04
important. I think those uh like some of the values that we we hold in the police
01:00:10
and personal personally around um honesty, integrity um transfer over as well. Um
01:00:18
>> but that's probably where it stops to be honest. You can communicate um well and
01:00:25
um you're always being very honest which seems to resonate with people too. Um
01:00:30
but also the the ability to go into a space not knowing anything and taking in everything that's given like and
01:00:40
sponging. >> I think that resonates with people too. Like you're not going in with a
01:00:44
preconceived this that or the other. You go in and you [snorts] sponge it back. So how did it start? It started with a
01:00:51
brand name and we went through multiple and then we landed on Firebird and Firebird being another name for the
01:00:58
Phoenix and rising up from the ashes and it was always my intention to um hide behind the bird as such. And
01:01:05
that can just be the front of my story, you know, rather than having my name or face attached to it, which has changed
01:01:12
dramatically. Um >> here we are today. >> Oh no. Oh [laughter] no, I failed. Um
01:01:18
see you. Yeah. Um and uh so created that. But then there it's just like like even looking at this and
01:01:28
seeing the barcode like you need to buy that barcode and then you have to buy the the image of the barcode and then
01:01:35
you have to have all these regulations around the ingredients on there and bolded allergen and and then I just
01:01:42
started talking to people about design and and that's how we we've got a
01:01:46
massive protein coffee written on the front with 16 grams of protein, double shot of coffee and and low sugar. It's
01:01:51
all written there because [snorts] that's what people need to know. It's a
01:01:56
new product. It's something completely new. Um, and then we've gone in and
01:02:01
thrown in uh original or toffee flavor cuz I I saw it sitting in between sort of your chilled coffees and your your
01:02:08
protein drinks. Um, so instead of having a latte or mocka, we've gone with original cuz it's an original protein
01:02:14
coffee at the time. We were the first um uh protein coffee in New Zealand and and
01:02:20
and I I don't maybe the world um and we needed to spell that out. So, it's just
01:02:27
about asking questions, talking to people, marketing people, and and this is what we've come up with. So, um yeah,
01:02:34
really passionate about this now. >> Yeah. Oh, I can tell. I can tell. Um and
01:02:38
you you you've achieved so much while recovering from this um like hugely traumatic um thing and in a really short
01:02:45
period of time as well. >> Yeah. >> How many how many staff on the Firebear
01:02:48
team now? >> Uh you're looking at it really >> really I say that but I've I've had a
01:02:55
huge amount of help uh along the way. So, um during like um I'm I'm not working at the moment apart from being
01:03:04
here cuz I'm still recovering from my last operation and and then the fatigue
01:03:09
and stuff that comes from that. So, I've had a huge amount of help that picking
01:03:13
up uh what needs to be done earlier in this year. I had a bit of a period where I could actually set up systems and
01:03:20
processes. So, our product goes from our contract manufacturers to um third party
01:03:26
logistics in Oakland and Christ Church, but the operations sort of the the operations side of it sort of runs
01:03:32
itself and then we've got people that sort of work on that and and that's been
01:03:37
key for me to be able to recover. um because that's the primary job at the moment is to recover and [snorts] um so
01:03:48
I've yeah been fortunate to have some good people help out and some good companies and yeah
01:03:54
>> starting any new business is is terrifying um you're not sure if you're
01:03:58
pumping it money into something that's going to work or it's not going to work
01:04:01
especially when you're on unpaid leave like how much did the initial investment
01:04:04
cost you can you can you answer that or what >> uh it cost a little bit um
01:04:09
>> like a hundred 50. >> Uh, yeah, a little bit. I'm not going to
01:04:12
disclose how much we've pumped into it, but >> it's a big gamble on yourself, isn't it?
01:04:16
>> Yeah, it is. But I'm going to sit here today and say you only live once, right?
01:04:21
>> No regrets. Um, >> and I suppose going through something that you [laughter] went through really
01:04:25
sort of crystallizes that. >> Yeah. And and I I think um Yeah. There's a cost for
01:04:35
I need to recover. This took my mind off some stuff >> and gave me a little bit of purpose
01:04:42
while while I was recovering as well, you know, while I couldn't go back to the police and [snorts] I've got a very
01:04:48
active active mind, so it can't just sit dormant for too long. Um, so it's it's it's done more than just be
01:04:59
the start of a business, but now we're at a point in the businesses in a in a
01:05:03
really really good place that it's got some great foundations. And I'm really
01:05:08
really confident and and positive around what what Firebird could be. And one of
01:05:13
the other reasons making it that that it provides a like a healthy alternative to
01:05:18
some of the other energy drinks and what may or may not be in those um with with
01:05:23
being a coffee with with the antioxidants and energy that way. So [snorts] um yeah, watch this space.
01:05:31
>> But the the um the beverage space is like super super crowded. You got to go
01:05:35
to Countdown Woolworths or New World and uh you just look at that beverage aisle
01:05:39
and it's crazy. Like how h how have you managed to get it? um stopped in so many
01:05:44
places just for a personality. >> I'd like to say that but it's probably
01:05:48
not true. Um our our first breakthrough and I and I can say this so it's through
01:05:54
the food [snorts] stuffs um emerge competition. So we we won highly recommended with that and that came with
01:06:00
some some compulsory ranging through the North Island and then it's off the back
01:06:04
of that that we could sort of show some rate of sale but also start that that building from there. And uh we've always
01:06:13
um had a a a strategy of where we want to be to in 6 12 18 months and we seem to be ticking off those as as we go
01:06:21
through. But um you you're dead right. The the space is incredibly competitive.
01:06:28
Um and there are great products out there. There's great innovation out there. um it's run by uh two or three
01:06:36
big companies that generally uh dictate a few things that go on in certain fridges and and they they've earned the
01:06:44
right to to do that. But um what I think is cut through a little bit is that it is it has got points of
01:06:54
difference, you know, like 16 g of protein in 250 mil can with a double shot of coffee 150 mg. But a point of
01:07:02
difference being that it's got only got 0.8 g of sugar in both of our flavors.
01:07:07
So, um, you don't get that. >> You're a salesman, aren't you? >> Yeah. I can tell you're passionate about
01:07:14
it. >> Oh, well. Well, it is it's a it's a healthy alternative. And I'm not saying
01:07:18
go and not have this and have this. It's just providing another opportunity. But
01:07:22
the feedback that we're getting from customers around there was a lovely one
01:07:27
the other day, an email around pre- a lady pre-d diabetic and she was on a a reader or something like that and um and
01:07:36
and alongside a healthy keto diet now she she's no longer pre-diabetic but part of her sort of daily thing is
01:07:43
Firebird and she said there was no insulin spike off the back of drinking Firebird. I'm like, man, that's bigger
01:07:50
than just a drink, you know? That's awesome. And and emergency services staff in the middle of the night or
01:07:56
people going, "Oh, it gets me through." That's how our um our slogan or or thing
01:08:03
crush the midday slump has come about from the feedback that we're getting. People using it late morning, early
01:08:09
afternoon, uh without the another coffee that's just going to go up and down.
01:08:13
It's got the protein attached and and the sugar. um is very very low so you don't get that insulin up and and that
01:08:21
spike. So um man I I look beyond the product in itself and and it's a really it's a really cool
01:08:31
product. It's a great product and and and some of the stories and feedback is
01:08:36
yeah another reason why you can keep going as well. >> Can you remember the first time you saw
01:08:41
you saw a can in the wild like in the >> We call it that too. Yeah. In the wild.
01:08:45
Yeah. Absolutely. And always get a real real good buzz even at the gym the other
01:08:49
day. Uh I think I was on the treadmill or something and and and a chap walked up next to me and he had a Firebird in
01:08:57
his hand and he sort of just looked over said like he had no idea who I was and he was just drinking his Firebird and I
01:09:02
was like man that's it's pretty cool you know. >> Yeah. So it's in the wild.
01:09:09
>> Yeah. cuz one of the one of the team in the office just when you came in before
01:09:11
she used to work at MOTAT and she said uh it's in the vending machine there and
01:09:14
I I I don't think you were aware of it but you you seem to get um real chuffed
01:09:18
about it. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And because of how how difficult it is to
01:09:22
get out there and the fact that there is so much choice out there as you've already alluded to that people are
01:09:29
picking up Firebird protein coffee, you know, and we've got to a point in our
01:09:33
sort of cycle that we need to um we need to get it in people's mouths and tasting
01:09:39
it because it's a unique product because it's in unique flavors. we're at that
01:09:43
point that people are interested, but like I'll be at a a show or someone Nikki will be at a show and she'll give
01:09:50
feedback that people will come up and say, "Hey, I've seen this at a a [snorts] New World or wherever, but they
01:09:56
haven't tried it." Because if you if you spend five bucks and and you don't like
01:10:00
it, you're like, "But they have have a sample and oh, this is great. I'm going to buy it now." Or
01:10:06
they'll buy a fourack or whatever. So, um yeah, it's just that evolving growth. um which requires different
01:10:14
things at different time. Um so yeah, >> have you have you been able to start
01:10:18
paying yourself yet? >> Oh no, >> I'm good. I'm pleased about that. This
01:10:23
um the studio we're in today, this is um a company I set up called Pod Lab, and
01:10:27
it's been going a year now. We've managed to grow the team, but no, I yet
01:10:31
to pay myself. >> Yeah. >> So I would have been pissed off if >> Oh yeah, please. No, abs can barely pay
01:10:39
all the other people doing the actual work. I'm just the ones that come in and
01:10:42
sit in a podcast. I won't get anything for that. >> What's what's the um what's the big
01:10:47
vision for it? Like where do you see it in say 5 years? >> Um yeah, broadly speaking, cuz we are
01:10:56
distributing and and into uh the the the Cook Islands and Fiji. Uh we're growing our distribution through
01:11:05
New Zealand, but still a lot of work to to to sort of educate people about it and and grow that and repay our
01:11:12
retailers that have given faith in us to put us in their fridges and um and shelves. Um we've sort of got a little
01:11:19
bit of product in North America um and got a partnership with distributors over there with some product over there. Um
01:11:28
and that seems well that is going really really well. Um, and then there's obviously Australia. So, um, I think the
01:11:36
the potential for this product, um, and this brand is huge. Um, how it gets to that status, um, is just planned six
01:11:48
months at a time. Um, and, uh, yeah, it's exciting. However, the brand or we get there.
01:11:57
>> Why Why do you want to go back to the place? You're on to a really good thing
01:12:00
here, right? Like you look at what you've achieved in a real short space of time.
01:12:03
>> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I Yeah. And and it seems to bedazzle people, you know, like but there's just
01:12:12
nothing like the thrill that you get when you're in that uniform and when you're doing
01:12:19
something to help people, help your colleagues. >> Yeah. I I just haven't got it past it
01:12:26
just yet. What what capacity I go back in, I don't know. But um I just I'm I'm
01:12:32
not willing and not able just to draw the line in that sand just at the moment. >> Fair enough.
01:12:40
>> Um yeah, you were nervous when you first came in here. How's it been so far?
01:12:45
>> As I said, it's once I get going, I don't mind sharing it. It's and it comes
01:12:50
back to the >> once I leave here I'll feel like [ __ ] too because now I've just gone and put
01:12:55
my face and told my story and whenever it gets aired I I'll I'll feel [ __ ]
01:13:00
about it. I'm like oh I don't deserve to be on Dom's podcast and like there's
01:13:05
some cool people out there and uh but uh yeah it's all good. >> I know I think you it's it's pretty
01:13:13
inspiring. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's a huge loss to New Zealand police. I can tell you would have been awesome at your
01:13:18
job. >> Yeah. Well, like everything else, I try hard. Whether that transpired into
01:13:24
>> being good or not, I suppose that's up to the >> the my colleagues and and people that
01:13:29
I've dealt with over the years to judge. >> Um, what's the big thing you've learned
01:13:34
about resilience that you wish everyone knew? [sighs] [gasps] >> Everyone could have it.
01:13:41
Um, it's it's not just there for people that are willing to uh put [snorts] on heavy weights and run
01:13:52
around the the bushes or do what some of us do. It can be for everyone. And >> a lot of the times, and that's why I
01:14:01
brought that point up about building mental resilience through physical exercise because that is a prevention,
01:14:08
uh, rather than at the bottom of the cliff when we're having to be grateful or
01:14:11
>> dwelling the whatifs or having to talk to people. if we if we've got a base
01:14:15
that we can build up now, whether it be [ __ ] it's it's raining outside, but I'm
01:14:20
still going to go for that little run or man, I don't want to have to go and have
01:14:25
that conversation with that person because it's hard. Um, everyone can do that regardless. And
01:14:32
it's not. Yeah. I I I use an example of physical exercise because it's one that you can do in a controlled
01:14:40
manner, right? Before it gets to a point where you're going to have to be resilient in an uncontrolled
01:14:46
environment. You can control like uh the the physical exercise or exertion that you're doing. And that that one relates
01:14:53
to me. But it's even um having that discussion with your partner, your boss, your colleague, your
01:15:01
coming and sitting and doing a podcast. Um really hard at the time, but I'm going to say feel bad after when I
01:15:09
leave. I'm going to also feel that [ __ ] I didn't want to do that, but I did it.
01:15:13
Um and what will be will be. Um so yeah. >> Yeah. Do you get like a a vulnerability
01:15:19
hangover? So you'll be driving home and you'll be like, "Oh, why did I say
01:15:23
that?" >> Odd regrettable episode, you reckon? [laughter] >> Um,
01:15:28
>> yeah. Yeah, maybe. >> No, I think it's been a great episode. Um, yeah. If I go on someone else's
01:15:33
podcast, I'll be driving. I'll be like, "Oh, why did I say that?" [laughter]
01:15:37
>> When when people call you brave or heroic, how does how does that sit with
01:15:40
you? uh not that great to be honest be because of and I hope I've made it very
01:15:45
very clear that uh emergency services staff my my mates my colleagues they're
01:15:51
doing this on a day-to-day basis because I got whacked in the face um doesn't make me any braver or heroic
01:15:58
than anyone else that ran into that building that day. It doesn't make me any brave or heroic that's out there
01:16:04
doing some stuff that goes unagnowledged out there. So, um, uh, but what I can say is how how I've bounced back from
01:16:14
it. That's something that I can control and, >> [snorts] >> um, hopefully that can show people that,
01:16:20
um, you can bounce back from stuff as well. And and and [clears throat] and looking a way forward. So rather than
01:16:26
that heroic thing being just an example to other people that um, good things can
01:16:32
happen out of some pretty shitty situations. M has your um personal idea or definition of success changed since
01:16:39
the shooting? >> In what way? In and >> like just in in life in general.
01:16:44
>> Yeah, absolutely. Um and I still Yeah, success comes in in sort of the little moments I think as
01:16:52
well. Um, another thing that I want things to happen now and I want my family to be set up now because you're
01:17:01
not guaranteed tomorrow. And I know that's something again, you're not guaranteed tomorrow. It's it's it's
01:17:06
true. You're not guaranteed tomorrow. >> Uh, but I've just got to chill the hell
01:17:11
out because I want to be sorted that if anything does happen tomorrow, my family
01:17:16
are sorted. So, just chill out a bit, right? Um, you're all no breaks. >> Oh, 100%. and and [snorts] yeah, another
01:17:24
work on another >> work. I I had um Sir Steve Hansen on the podcast or black coach and he he's got a
01:17:30
theory that um for most people their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness.
01:17:34
>> Yeah. >> So maybe maybe that's what it is for you. >> Yeah, I 100% 100% I even lying there
01:17:39
over the weekend just chill out [laughter] cuz I'm not doing stuff. >> Um what advice would you have for
01:17:46
someone who's going through a life-changing setback themselves? >> Yeah. Um, yeah, more of just the same
01:17:53
what I've said, right? Like don't dwell the whatifs. >> Uh, be grateful for what you got. And I
01:17:58
know that's easier said than done. You know, some things terribly uh sad and hard to go through and and
01:18:06
and it doesn't have to be a massive thing either. It can be rolling your ankles so you can't do your run when you
01:18:11
won't run the marathon. It sounds silly, but then all of a sudden you're not
01:18:14
running. mental health is is not deteriorating as such, but it's a bit tougher, right? Because that's your
01:18:21
identity, that's your outlook. So, um yeah, but but those two, they just keep
01:18:26
coming back to me and and something that's really helped me. Don't dwell on
01:18:29
the waters. Be grateful for what you've got and and [ __ ] just talk to people.
01:18:34
Be better than me. [snorts] >> Oh, you're doing pretty well. You're
01:18:37
doing pretty well. The um you Sean from three years ago, he wouldn't believe
01:18:41
this guy, would he? Oh, >> no. He's No. Oh. Yeah, I' I'd hate to think what Sean
01:18:47
three years ago would think about the guy sitting here today. >> What do you think you're a show pony?
01:18:51
>> Oh, bloody sold his soul. It's terrible. [laughter] >> But I was saying this morning, I've
01:18:56
crossed the line now, so I might as well just dive right in. But um it's it's
01:19:01
there. It's out there and and and it it is what it is. >> Yeah. And and [clears throat] it can
01:19:06
help people. Uh but the overriding reason why I crossed that line was because of that. And and
01:19:16
>> yeah, in a little way and as I said right at the start, if me telling my
01:19:20
story or talking about it helps one person, then who am I not to tell it? >> Um what's something positive that's come
01:19:26
out of the experience? Something that you could never have imagined at the time.
01:19:30
>> What firebird? >> No, the um the the incident in July 2023. Um what? Yeah. Uh
01:19:38
>> maybe more more gratitude perhaps. >> Yeah, I think I I think so. As as as
01:19:45
much as I need to get around making Yeah. slow down a bit to actually it's you've identified another sort of
01:19:54
work on for me cuz yes, I am very very grateful, but um I just need to slow down sometimes and and probably reflect
01:20:02
on that a little bit more. Um, I don't know. Actually, something that came straight out of it was how good
01:20:14
people are, you know, and and I always thought cuz you hear so much [ __ ] on the
01:20:19
news about bad people doing bad things or or or not so good people making bad decisions and doing bad things.
01:20:25
>> Oh, there's that saying in media, if it bleeds, it leads. >> Oh, well, and you can see it, right? and
01:20:29
and probably another reason why to come out, but the support that I had straight
01:20:34
off the bat, like I didn't turn on my phone straight away, but there was like
01:20:38
960 messages on my one phone and another 600 and something through other different platforms on my other phone.
01:20:46
>> I I don't have that many friends. Certainly not that many, but [laughter]
01:20:49
like what the support that came out of it like the what the RSA sent um I won't
01:20:57
start actually listing off what what was given but like people just was incredible. Um
01:21:05
so something that's really been etched in is how good people are. Um, and just
01:21:13
um, yeah, don't not not don't judge a book by the cover, but um, there are
01:21:19
good people out there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz I suppose in your line of
01:21:22
work, it would be easy to become cynical cuz you are dealing with you're dealing
01:21:26
with the worst of the worst, right? On a daily basis. >> Absolutely. So maybe that was a reminder
01:21:30
that actually people >> Yeah. Do you start to think everyone's a bullshitter or everyone's
01:21:35
>> Oh, you got to you got to be one to no one, right? Um, yeah. Well, I you do get
01:21:41
you do get to a point where you you sort of need a little bit more um clarification about a couple of things,
01:21:47
but on a whole I think yeah, but a a really really good reminder that um yeah, there's some really good people
01:21:57
out there and and it's not just um the [ __ ] >> That's great. Um how old are your sons
01:22:06
now? 10 and seven. >> So, they're probably too young to watch this. It's It's been a pretty
01:22:13
>> confrontational episode. >> Yeah. I in one way at some stage they're going
01:22:19
to want to know um what happened through my through my voice and my eyes and they
01:22:25
talk about putting a bit of putting a bit of cream on a story when you get a bit older. And no doubt I'll start doing
01:22:31
that at some stage in my latter years. But this is itch now that this is this is truly what it is and where it's at
01:22:38
and and and the way that I look at it and view the situation and where I am now. So, uh hopefully one day they can
01:22:47
uh listen to this or watch this and uh get a bit more of an understanding of because they've [snorts] been through it
01:22:52
too in a in a in a different stage in their life. But um yeah. >> Yeah. This is a story that needs no GST
01:23:00
added to it. >> Yeah. [laughter] Maybe doesn't matter anywhere. >> Um yeah, it'll be interesting to see
01:23:05
what impact um it it has on the boys as they get older. Like I don't I don't
01:23:08
know if they've got if they cut from the same cloth as you then, you know, maybe
01:23:12
it'll be water off a duck's back. >> Yeah, they are diff they're both very
01:23:16
different personalities. Um one's a very very deep thinker. The [snorts] the
01:23:21
other one's a very free spirit, I'll say. Um both different personalities. Uh
01:23:26
both great kids. Um yeah, love them bits. >> All right. Well, when the time's right,
01:23:32
maybe they'll watch this on YouTube or stumble across it. Um, yeah. What would
01:23:36
you like to say to them? >> Uh, yeah. Well, no. Just ju just that I think they know,
01:23:45
but just know that I'll always love them and um yeah, try and um hopefully um I've been an example and
01:23:57
a good example and a good role model for uh for you to grow up and thrive in in life.
01:24:04
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that's a great place to end it.
01:24:08
>> Cool. Shman Stanley, um, thank you for all your service and congratulations on
01:24:12
all the success with Firebird. >> Yeah, thank you very much. It's it's
01:24:16
regardless of what I've been saying is is quite cool. [laughter] >> You've hated every minute of it, but I
01:24:21
appreciate you being here today. >> We'll wait another four months before I
01:24:24
do it again. [laughter]