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[Music] Kiwis love it first. Like Finn, we're making [Music] waves. Generate switch online
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[Music] today. Lee Warren, welcome to my podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having
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me. First of all, what are you are you working for Department of Corrections? No, I just wanted to make sure I was
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wearing the correct attire. Um, if you're listening to this, you won't know what we're talking about. If
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you're watching this on YouTube, you will. He's wearing like like green Department of Corrections badged
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overalls. Where did you Where'd you get them from? Are you allowed them? Technically, yes. And and and
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technically no. I I I don't know. Until I get told off, it's it's fine, right?
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you know, ask for forgiveness, not permission. Um, found I think it was Facebook um sell it. You know how you
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looking for nothing in particular, wasting time and and I was like, "Oh, 10
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bucks." Yeah. Done. Yeah. And then here we are. Overalls and I the green underneath I I recognize what that is.
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That's an Achilles top. Are you an Achilles athlete? I am. I am. I found it super helpful to be um at events with a
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group. Um it just makes it so much easier. I mean, you do running as well. when you run alone, it's super boring,
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but you're in your own mind and sometimes it's good for training. Um, but when you're at an event, yeah, it's
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really cool to do it with a group and then your group goes places and then you're with somewhere with a group and
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and I found that, yeah, super good, especially in New York. Such a great community. For anyone that doesn't know,
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what's the quick spiel about Archilles? Who are they? Quick spiel about Arches,
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weirdly enough, I thought it was blind people, but because you know, bright yellow, they do do a lot of a lot of
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guided runs for blind runners. It's so it's not just um um sight impaired. It's
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for anyone with any disability and they help you get involved with a guide or without but get involved with a group
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and just get fit basically and and help you go to events. It's about um your
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win, your challenge, your event and then they'll help you succeed with other
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people that want to help you help you succeed. Yeah. Yeah. And they do a great job and that's a great uh explanation as
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well. Now this is your very first podcast. Congratulations. Thanks. What was that noise? It was my cherry
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popping. Uh, it is. I feel super nervous. I'm with you. You know, I'm I'm
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JJ. This is like This is massive. And it's been years since I've been involved
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with anyone who's been famous or is still famous uh and and and doing something. You has been I think I was a
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never and never was. Um, no, it's it's well it's great to have you here cuz
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I've known you for a very long time and um I saw you comment on one of my posts
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on one of the social media platforms and I thought [ __ ] Lee would be a great story to tell like uh you just to shine
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a shine a bit of a light on you and some of the stuff you've done because um I
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don't know if you like the i word but I find you an inspirational guy. Thank
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you. I I was just getting lost with the fact that you swore and I'm like we can
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switch. That's cool. Um thank you. No, I I I do take it with a grain of salt
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nowadays. I used to rub it off and be like, "Oh, no. I'm not an inspiration."
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But anytime um I find now that somebody reflects on something that you do, you need to take it, you know, like when
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somebody cheers for something that you've done, you need to take it and and and take it as part of yourself and say,
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"That's me. I I've done this. I've deserved this." And and not just rush
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off stage quickly and and I'm all embarrassed. Um, so thank you. I appreciate that. I don't see myself as
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an inspiration and yet I want and like the idea of being inspirational to people, which sounds such a justosition
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and and ironic, but yeah. Thank you. Now, how did our paths cross? I was thinking about this the other day cuz
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I've I've known you a very long time, but I can't I can't pinpoint I can't I
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can't trace the timeline back to the to the beginning. the the very first and I
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found it the other day after Coldplay was here was um you got me on to do a song and I can't remember how we got
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into contact for the the paradise paralyze and I I park and I I can't shop and all this. It was it was terrible
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wording. Oh no, I remember that. It was so good. I I wrote it and I thought, "Oh, you know, um I think we were on the
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show with Mike Padau at the time, JJ, Mike, and Diamond. Mike Mike was the only one of us that can sing and he was
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like, I'm not going to sing this." So, I thought we need to like out we need to
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find have it sung by an actual real life disabled person. Um yeah, there was a line in there like, "My shoes are are
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brand new all the time." Spacious Lou at the Yeah. Yeah. And and and good park. I always get good
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parking. Uh it was it was phenomenal. I I loved it. I thought it was hilarious. And I I looked at the lines and I
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thought, "This is great." Um, yeah. And I think we we it was either we met
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through that and then the Edge Next Top Friend or it was the other way around. It was the Edge Next Top Friend. And
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then you were like, "Oh yeah, that's right. Lee's in a chair. We'll get him
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to do the song." But I remember the song. The song was way better than than
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the Edge Next Top Friend. I still keep in contact with Ollie as well. What is the Next Top Edge Next Top Friend? So
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the Edge Next Top Friend was um kind of like your your big brother. And again, this is for anyone that's like 20 years
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old. You've got no idea what's going on. Um, and we you had a bunch of people
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reality TV and you chuck them together and then quickly take them out of their norm and their brain of of what's normal
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for them and you see people like cry of somebody leaving after two days and you're like, well, that's rubbish. And
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then when you put yourself in that situation, you're like, oh my gosh, yeah. No, it totally does happen. And
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all the the reality shows like Mr. beast or whatever it is. I've been have been
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watching those. Likewise. And um yeah, it's great. And the money the money involved is insane. Uh and you see
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people and and they're crying and and the the mental and emotional side of it
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because you're outside of your norm. Everything else is heightened. We were talking before about the emotional and
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am I an emotional person? You think you might be, but then when you put yourself
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in a completely different situation, everything's out the window. Everything
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you think you know about yourself is gone. and then everything's new and that
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was that was the edge next trend. was to see who was going to be voted on. What was it? Bibo, Facebook, um Insta wasn't
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around. MySpace. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it's coming back to me now. So, Next Top Friend, it was
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like you guys had to accumulate as many social media friends as what you could or else you'd be kicked out. And we we
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discovered um this was in the very early days of Facebook. This is how early it was. We discovered there was a limit of
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a thousand friends that any individual can have on Facebook. And then um so our promo stuff were like scrambling around
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trying to get hold of Zuckerberg or whoever to get this cap. Yeah. Oh, that's fascinating. Oh yeah. No, it's
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coming back to me now. And it was in a house in St. Mary's Bay. That's right.
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And it was a This is inconvenient for you, a two-story house. And there were disputes going on with um the Edge and
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the Teny Tribunal for like years afterwards because the the walls around the stairway were damaged. Oh, I
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remember the me broken out. I'm going to jump down. It was Oh. Oh, yeah. I'm not
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going to say names, but somebody um yeah, jumped down there and and their elbow went through the wall and then it
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was like fixing it and fixing things to the walls with the M3 easy remove and it
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would pull off paint and somebody would go, "Well, that's not easy to remove.
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Look at it's just damaged." Oh, yeah. I remember all of that. So, um I've got a
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quote from you. Uh my life changed for the better after my accident. It was one of the best things that happened to me.
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It just took a few years for me to understand that. Yeah. So the you're um this chair that you're in, you've been
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in that since you were 16 and you're how old now? 50. 50. Yeah. You've been in in the
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chair for way longer than what you were out of it. Yeah. And it it's a hard comment or or or quote.
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Thank you for that. Um but it's very true. It it does um hopefully resonate with a lot of people because it took me
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a while to get myself out of my own way. Uh what does that mean? Yeah, I was my own worst enemy, you know, and anyone
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that says that or or or realizes that that's that's true um knows what I mean
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by that. it where at the start of me breaking my back, I was trying to do without realizing it, trying to do all
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the same stuff that I was doing before I broke my back, which I couldn't. So then
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I would get frustrated and then I would lock it up in this little chest inside of me of, you know, because I'm in a
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wheelchair. But then I also put everything else in there. Why can't I get a girlfriend? Why can't I buy a
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house? Why haven't I got a car? Why am I getting pulled over by the police cuz
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I'm drunk? Um, everything was because I'm in a wheelchair. Yeah, I know.
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There's loads of stories like that. Actually, yeah. And then he was like, you know, oh, is that a wheelchair in
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the back? Well, how do you drive? And I was like, fast. And then he still gave me a ticket. But but everything that
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went wrong in my life for the first few years of being in a chair wasn't because
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I was speeding, um, because I was drunk, because of this. It was because I was in
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a chair. And that meant that anytime anything to do with being in a chair was was
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frustrating me or got that box opened up and it was a jack in the boxes and everything came out and I I'd abused
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people and it was it was quite horrible. I look back on that time and I was I was
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an ass. I was a terrible person. I'm surprised I I even had one girlfriend, let alone several. Um not at once or one
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time. Um but it was I know. Sorry, I I go in sidet tracks. I distract myself. We're having these beautiful moments and
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then I ruin them. You ruin it with these little sidebars. But it it's very true.
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But that was that was the type of person I was and until I got out of my own way
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and and moved on um and stopped allowing myself to get in my own way. I mean, there was how it came to a head because
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everything comes to a head. You know, somebody says, "Oh, I woke up the next
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day and made a decision and I made a choice." I'm not that guy. I'm a slow
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learner. very slow learner. Um, and it took me a long time and it it came to a head where I actually tried to commit
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suicide. Um, and when I say try, I did not not I was pretending and and I got I got found. Um, I took a whole bunch of
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pills. Um, and without going into to too many details, I was super lucky I was found. And what age? Um, 21. 5 years
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after the accident. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm guessing that was five years of suffering then. Yeah. And not just for
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me, it was for everyone around me. Everyone that loved me. Strangers, they probably thought I was awesome. Um but
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everyone that loved me, everyone that was close to me, suffering for them as well. And it wasn't until after that
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incident um of the suicide that I started to make changes and started become a better person. I'm I'm not
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great now. I I still try and fix myself on a daily basis, but it did help. Um, and it was a good catalyst for me to
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start getting better. That's a lot. Real early. Real early. Um, tell you what, we might might get
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back to that and and pick around that stuff for a bit, but first of all, I want to go through some of your greatest
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hits. Um, I normally leave them to the end, but Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because Yeah. some of the
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stuff you've done. It's like um Yeah, it's it's eyebrow racing. It's really
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cool. So um yeah, last year you did a couple of marathons. Um you did the the London Marathon and the New York
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Marathon. Um dressed in a squirrel suit. Yeah. Why? So that's the beautiful question. Why? Well, there's why the
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squirrel suit, why the marathons, and and why do them at all? Um the the first wise is because I was turning 50 and I'm
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like, let's let's make this year good. you know, I'll I'll do the New York uh
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the London Marathon cuz then I can go over there and see family and and it'll
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be cool. Now, why the costume cuz I'm going to take it back a step is uh that
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came about. I actually trained for um See, this is going to take it down a dark rabbit hole, he says, smiling. Um I
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trained for three years for the the Parolympics in wheelchair racing. Um I missed out by 2 of a second. That's how
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long it takes that to happen. Um, and after training for that long, it took me a couple of months to get over it as to,
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you know, why the the whole why, that's the question of of of anything. It's
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like why do you do it? To what end, to what goal, what are you trying to achieve? And I realize that I actually
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didn't want to be in the Parolympics. Everyone sees you doing something when
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you're able-bodied and they're like, "Oh, go you." When they see somebody in
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a wheelchair doing something, they're, "Oh, you must be training for the
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Parolympics. You must be doing this." And it sort of I think that set in my
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head that must be why I'm doing it. So I went for the parolympics. Anyway, I
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failed. But um I was doing this thing called a sleep diet and uh and and I got interviewed for round the bays and they
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said, "Oh, you do round the bays." I said, "Yeah, I'm going to do it in a
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gorilla suit." And they were like, "What?" I'm like, "I guess I am now
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because I've said it." Uh and uh I did and I came last. But it was the best
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event I had had in years. And I absolutely loved coming last. And the level of an I made two children cry, but
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um the level of anonymity at the end was was fantastic because um someone actually came up to me afterwards and
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said, "Oh, did you see the guy in the gorilla suit?" And I'm like, "Yeah, that
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was cool, wasn't it?" You know, cuz he didn't know it was me. And I absolutely
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loved it. So I I took that on board and was like, "Right, let's let's do
00:14:03
different costumes." So, I did round the bays in a night suit, a wet suit, a
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Batman suit, obviously the gorilla suit, a panda suit, panda in a sombrero. Um, and then a friend of mine that worked at
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First Scene said, "Oh, we've got these squirrels from this um I think it was a
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a Cabri nut bar ad uh and they had like 50 of them. Um, you know, you want to wear a squirrel costume?" I'm like,
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"Yes." And I wore it and it was awesome and it showed the face. That was a cool
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thing. So, still some level of anonymity, but um but it didn't scare anyone and it was it was a massively hot
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costume and I was like great. Uh and then the following year they actually gave it to me. So I was like great. So
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awesome. You you perspired like we don't want this hair on it back. Uh so so they
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gave it to me and I was like great okay well this is now my costume. Uh and so that's why the London Marathon was was
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so funny story if if you don't mind me I back ped a little. So, I sign up to the
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London Marathon. Um, but you have to wait for approval. Now, anyone that hasn't done this, but but I'm sure you
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have, you have to go in for a ballot and the ballot then allows you to then do it. You don't just like, oh, register
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online now. I'm doing it. I couldn't wait that long. I needed to prep. I
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needed to pay for things. So, I signed up to a charity and it costs a lot more. Um, but then they give you guaranteed
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entry. And I'm like, right, do I tell people about this girl suit? And I'm
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like, "No, no." I talked to other people and they were like, "Oh, yeah, you
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should. You know, safety concerns." I'm like, "No, cuz if I tell them, they can
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say no." And then that's it. Always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Right. That's what I say. So
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I I turned up the day before and this woman like looked at the squirrel suit and me and she was like, "Oh no. Oh no."
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She had a straight face and she was just like, "No." And I'm like, "What do you
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mean no?" You know, playing dumb. and she waves her hand and says, "All of
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this is a no." And I'm like, "Well, we shall see about that." And and I say,
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"Oh, can we go somewhere and talk about it and discuss it?" And yeah, a long
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long story short is they allowed me to do it, but the the the wheelchair race isn't
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wheelchair. It isn't race chair. It's the elite wheelchair section. And you
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don't see clowns doing an elite run. And and that's what they couldn't allow. So
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I was like, "Oh, this muppet is in here in his squirrel suit." So they said,
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"Well, you can do it with the elites if you wear Lycra. You can do it in your
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day chair in the squirrel suit and you can do it with the other numpties or you can do it with your race chair in the
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squirrel suit, but you do it with the runners." And I was like, "Well,
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obviously the latter." Uh, and I did. And it was really dangerous. It was really scary. In what way? Well, you as
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a runner, when you're running, you look up here. You don't look down. And when
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you're, you know, jibbing, jamming to get your place, you don't look for a
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little 10-in wheel on the ground cuz that's I've got a long chair. It's like
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a triangle, and there's a little wheel at the front, big wheels at the back.
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But I'm even lower than this when I'm in a chair. And you're quite tall. So, when
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you've got bunches of runners, it was it was horrid. And I for the first like 10
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minutes, I hated it. I hated the event. and I hated everything about it and it organizes and until again like I say
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about getting me out of the way. I got me out of the way and I was like I'm dressed in a squirrel suit. I'm doing
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the London marathon. Yeah. And then I started doing and I didn't care about my
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time and and so I had I had fun and it was good. That's awesome. And then um
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Yeah. So that was London's usually April and then New York's like November. You
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did both of these last year and you even made the New York Post. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. Oh, thank you. I was I
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was super happy with that. I had three goals for New York. One was um that the squirrel was going to be seen. Um two
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was that I'm going to have a great time and three was that um I do under three
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hours. So I got a coach and he was like right you know we're going to hit this
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and this and this and we did all these things. I was in way better shape than London. But because of my goals um I was
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stopping and chatting to people. I was like, you know, going going to the drink stations and going this isn't vodka, you
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know, you know, getting the the squishies from the the SIS table and and somebody was was filming me. I was like,
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you know, just being an absolute ass but enjoying it and I absolutely loved it and it took me all the way back to
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the first one I did around the bays in the gorilla costume where I absolutely enjoyed it. But um I mean a a marathon
00:18:37
is hard. It's 42 km. Why make it harder by wearing a costume? Yeah. Like you could still enjoy it in
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in running gear or Lyra. Absolutely. So it can enjoy lots of things like uh well you got to take it off
00:18:53
anyway. Anyway, uh so uh it takes me back to the the initial gorilla suit and yeah, even talking about it, we're
00:19:00
laughing. You're laughing and you say why? And and as soon as I tell somebody
00:19:04
I wore this costume, they're like they laugh and then they ask why. And I'm
00:19:07
like, that's why because it makes you laugh. It makes you smile. It's stupid,
00:19:12
but it's entertaining. And at the same time, it highlights disability. I mean,
00:19:17
so does um Marcel Hog and Suzuki and these other guys that come first and when, you know, $100,000 when they come
00:19:23
first, whatever. Uh, you know, but there's no way I'm doing a marathon in
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an hour 20. It's just not happening. I don't have the the passion. My my
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playing to win is is enjoyment. M they're playing to win is to come first cuz everyone's win looks different.
00:19:40
Everyone's Everest is different and mine is to to have fun, enjoy it. And when
00:19:46
people look at the chair, um they say, "Yeah, well it's stupidly hot. Why don't
00:19:50
you do it in Lyra? Why don't you make it easy on yourself?" And I'm like, "Well,
00:19:53
anyone can do that. What I do is dumb and stupid and it's insane, but it's
00:19:58
also awesome and fun and enjoyable and people laugh." Yeah. Yeah. But not I
00:20:04
mean not anyone can even even do it. Like the amount of people that end up doing a marathon is like 1% I guess. And
00:20:09
in terms in terms of the disability community I don't know like maybe it's
00:20:12
still the same percentage like 1% but you know the percentage of people that would do it um in a wheelchair and a
00:20:19
costume even slimmer. Um but it's cool. It feels like you're doing it for the
00:20:23
enjoyment of others. Yeah. Yeah. And now now you want to do there's a whole series called the um the Abbott world
00:20:29
marathon majors. So, um, uh, yeah, London and New York are two of them. And now there's actually five others. There
00:20:36
was six, but now there's five. Yeah. Because now we got Sydney. Yeah. So, there's Sydney, Tokyo, Boston, Chicago,
00:20:42
and Berlin. You want to do all of them? Yeah. So, that's that's what happened. I
00:20:46
went to London um and the day before um the race there's the expo and that's
00:20:52
that's you've got to go and register and that sort of stuff. And I went there and
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everyone was talking about stars and I'm like, what? There's no famous people
00:20:59
here. What are you on about? like I didn't get it. And then they tell me, "Well, you do six marathons and you get
00:21:04
a seventh medal." Okay, I'm in. Sign me up. What is this? You I'm in for stuff
00:21:10
like a brown paper bag. I'm like, "Rubber band. I don't care what it is.
00:21:13
It's the win is the win. I'll take it." And uh and yeah, so they said, "You you
00:21:18
do these six marathons around the world." I I didn't actually calculate
00:21:21
the fact that's like $50,000 cuz it's eight and a half grand basically for
00:21:25
each one. And uh and you get a seventh medal for free. But the seventh meter was pretty cool. Um, I've I've got one.
00:21:32
I'm a six-star finisher. It's massive. It's massive. I I should have put it in
00:21:35
today. Um, it's a it's a massive massive trinket, but it it is very special. But
00:21:39
you you reflect on how much it cost you. It's like a $50,000. You'd never get
00:21:44
that on eBay, would you? No. No. No. No. Realistically, like replacement cost is
00:21:49
probably like eight bucks. I don't know. I should just get one made and be like,
00:21:52
"Look, I've done it." Oh. So, when are you doing that? Over the next couple of
00:21:55
years. Yeah. So I worked out as as you know then um that there's an easy way of
00:22:00
doing is two a year because you got one at the beginning of the year, one at the
00:22:03
end of the year. So we got London in April and then we did uh New York in November. Then 2026 uh I got Tokyo in I
00:22:12
think it's late March. Uh and then Chicago, I think it is in November or or October. Um just before New York. Yeah.
00:22:22
And then the following year I'll do Boston, I think it is, beginning of the year, and then Berlin at the end of the
00:22:27
year. And then the following year, 2028. I'm sounding super boring now because
00:22:31
it's all planned out. Uh 2028, I'll do Sydney because then I can sign up for
00:22:35
seven and then do the seven. So then I'll do seven marathons and have nine medals. Yeah. Um Sydney will be
00:22:42
interesting. I've done that the last couple of years and it's been so hot.
00:22:45
Like they start like 7:00 in the morning or 6:00 in the morning, but by 8:00 it's
00:22:49
scorching. So I can't imagine what it's like in a suit. Oh, I I'm not sure what
00:22:54
I wear cuz I had to adjust my costume for New York. So, it's funny you talk about Yeah. different costumes. Um that
00:23:02
Yeah. Okay. Let me again I backpedal and and it's easier to explain. They sent me
00:23:08
an email after I'd fully paid for New York with with Archales and they were good bunch of people, don't get me
00:23:12
wrong. Uh and they said, "Oh, you can't do it in the squirrel suit because of
00:23:16
this reason, this reason, this reason, this reason." And I talked to my coach
00:23:20
about it and he was like, "Well, I could just have my friend Roy meet you, you
00:23:25
know, like over the Verzano Bridge and you could just put it on and continue."
00:23:28
And I'm like, "I don't know how that's going to go." Um, but I took it as a
00:23:32
challenge to meet their criteria. So, so I went to First Scene, the ones that gave me the squirrel suit, and um, Joe
00:23:41
Pilington is absolutely a legend. She actually like paid her staff to help me adjust the squirrel suit. So now I've
00:23:48
got two squirrel suits. I've got a nice slim fitting one um and the puffy big
00:23:52
one. Um so I've got one that just fits on um like a race bike helmet and it looks amazing. That was the one I wore
00:24:00
from New York and a very slim fitting like furry chest. Um but they wouldn't
00:24:05
let me wear the tail, but everyone was still yelling out go squirrels. So I'm
00:24:09
like, "Hey, it's all good. So long as I look like a squirrel, that's perfect.
00:24:13
That's all I'm after." Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. So, that's some of the running
00:24:17
stuff. Um, the sky tower climb as well. You've done that a couple of times. Yeah. Um, so this is going up the
00:24:23
stairs. So, this is without your chair. This is you just sort of dragging yourself up. Crawling up the stairs.
00:24:28
Yeah. How many how many flights? Uh, 52 flights. Okay. Yeah. And And yeah, I I don't like correcting people because I
00:24:36
love the story anyway. But I I did do it five times. And the fifth time is when I
00:24:41
stopped. Not by well kind of by choice but also because on the on the 34th floor I broke my collarbone. It snapped
00:24:48
and um like this is me you know lifting up. I I put my arms and then my bum has touched every step. So I you know bum on
00:24:55
the step and then I pull my legs up. Right. I was wondering how you did it. So you just sort of went backwards.
00:24:59
Yeah. Yeah. It seemed to me to be the logical easiest way of doing it. You end up with a sore tailbone again. Lucky
00:25:05
I've got this strap-on cushion. It's like a nappy. Um, but but it is it's it's super good cushion. Uh,
00:25:14
and and that that basically leaving any pressure areas and and I'm not like jumping down. I'm just putting myself up
00:25:21
and down and keeping everything routine. And you know what it's like with running, you have a process and you just
00:25:26
keep that process and no matter what happens, you follow in line. You just keep doing it. So I did that and on the
00:25:31
34th floor, this is the only time I trained as well. So I was dawned dawned um uh so I was wearing the fire gear um
00:25:39
helmet jacket pants and a tank and it was the only year that I trained for the event. So I'd put on about another 30 kg
00:25:46
again made it harder for myself. Oh, firefighter gear. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, they do the challenge. They do the
00:25:51
challenge as well. But I couldn't do it dawned and started because that's with
00:25:54
the oxygen and it just wouldn't have lasted. Um the fastest runners do it in
00:25:58
like 9 minutes and I I was like, you know, 47 minutes I think is my fastest time. Um, so yeah, I'm I'm I'm crawling
00:26:05
up and I get to 34th floor and um and it feels a snap and I'm like, "Oh, that's
00:26:11
that's not good." So, um, and everyone's like, "Why didn't you pull out? Why did
00:26:14
you finish?" And I'm like, "Well, if you don't finish, you don't get the
00:26:17
t-shirt." And it's all about the t-shirt in the meadow, isn't it? That's that's
00:26:20
what it's about. So, yeah, I finished and and it totally popped out. And then
00:26:25
I was on bed rest for 3 months. How did it snap? Uh, it just um just wear and tear or Yeah, just just pressure. It was
00:26:33
just it just gave up. Normally the collarbone is something that snaps when you fall. It's like your shock absorber.
00:26:39
But um yeah, this particular time um it was just through training I guess and just gave up and said nah and snap. Um
00:26:47
because I'm in a chair I can't um I can't get dressed. Uh I can't eat. Uh I
00:26:53
can't transfer. I can't drive. So breaking a collarbone is is tamount to
00:26:57
breaking my back again. So go on the bed rest. It's terrible. Um, that's pretty savage. It's pretty
00:27:03
badass. E, like there's there's a lot of able-bodied people around that would
00:27:07
would struggle to do you walk up the sky to Tower even with unlimited time. And there'd be a lot of Yeah. a lot more
00:27:13
people still that would would be able to do it, but they'd need to pause numerous
00:27:15
times on the way up to catch their breath. So, to be able to, you to not be able-bodied and be able to do that, it's
00:27:22
it's [ __ ] it's incredible. I managed to talk one other person into doing it
00:27:27
and uh and because I'm going to say her name, Sarah Belgrave. She's amazing. Um
00:27:32
because she was the only other paraplegic to do it. She's the only female to do it and I'm the only male to
00:27:37
do it. And I dare say there's there's no other disabled person who has no use of
00:27:42
their legs that wants to crawl up the sky because why why would you do that? It's because it's here. Exactly, Siri
00:27:48
Edund Hillary. Because it's here. Yeah. Yeah. What about the triceps? Is it good for
00:27:52
the triceps? I don't know. Everything hurt after. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um and some of the other stuff you've you've
00:27:59
done, we'll just barrel through these. Um skydiving, bungee jumping, rock climbing, demolition derbies, skiing,
00:28:05
target shooting, ax throwing, car racing. You love love racing your minis. I mean, all these things are things that
00:28:12
most most people won't do because they're not interested or because they're not into extreme sports or
00:28:17
whatever. Um but for you to do them, I'm guessing there's an extra layer layer of
00:28:21
um red tape and bees to get through. Oh yeah. Yeah. There really is for most of those things
00:28:28
the um the red tape is probably the second hardest. And again the the first hardest and I'll take it back is getting
00:28:35
me out of the way. As soon as I took me out of the way, the pitcher years ago, um I started to put up my hand and say
00:28:42
yes to things. I said yes to things before someone had even finished. Oh Lee, do you want it? Yes. Like going
00:28:47
around Lake Tapo. Somebody said, "Oh, do you want to go?" Yes. Okay. Okay. And
00:28:51
then they they bailed out and somebody else bailed out and then now it wasn't a
00:28:54
team of four, it was a team of one. So I became the first solo wheelchair racer to push around like TA because I was
00:28:59
committed in my head. God, I said let's do it. That's such a long way. It's like
00:29:03
160 170ks. Some very very steep hills after after 2 hours of no flat. Um then I come across the sign. It says hard to
00:29:11
be hill and I'm like what the hell was that? You know, I've just done hills.
00:29:16
So, but yeah, the the BS as you say with things like the um the Motorsport New Zealand race license, and no offense to
00:29:23
them, they're concerned for safety, and they've got to be concerned with safety.
00:29:27
They get fines. Um somebody will ultimately be responsible at the end of the day. So, they've got to look at how
00:29:35
do we alleviate any possible issues in the future. So, I had to I had to get in my Mini, rip on the handbrake when the
00:29:42
guy said stop and then take take my belts off and jump out of the car. And he's he's got to film it. Now, this this
00:29:49
person is doing it for for serious reasons. And here's me again. I I'm my
00:29:55
own worst enemy at times cuz I I did this and I got I jumped out of the car and I had to do it within like 15
00:30:01
seconds or 30 seconds or so. And I'm rolling around on the ground going, "Ah,
00:30:04
the invisible flame." the trying to put myself out like Talligator Knights, you
00:30:08
know, the Will Frell scene, you know, I didn't strip naked with my helmet on,
00:30:12
but it was super funny and and he's just filming it like like blandac like it's
00:30:16
in nothing like it happens every day. Amazing. And the and the bungee jump, how does that work? Is that around the
00:30:23
waist or just around the ankles or We we did it the umbilical in front to begin with. I've done it three times. um
00:30:32
didn't want to do around the ankle just for fear of what could it do to my spine um from
00:30:39
them and from me. And then um the other two I did from um behind um and the weirdest horriblest one I did was
00:30:48
actually where it was in front of me and I said I'm going to wheelie off backwards. So do it. It's falling. You
00:30:56
know how you do a trust fall and people got to catch you? Imagine doing a trustful, but you just keep going. You
00:31:02
know, it's the horriblest feeling. And I'm hanging on to this and as I realized, I'm like, I could literally
00:31:08
hang on to nothing. Holding on to this rope as with the bungee is not going to save me. It's what's coming with me.
00:31:14
Yeah. And it's Oh, it was horrible. Yeah. But but good fun. And and outside of that, there's heaps of other stuff
00:31:20
you you do. You do volunteering stuff. You've done lots of um disability advocacy work. Oh, yeah. Um Yeah. That's
00:31:26
like one of your passions, eh? Yeah. I it's a a big thing for me, parking. Uh I
00:31:32
know there's other people in the world who advocate things for like um flights,
00:31:36
wheelchairs on flights. Um and Sophie Morgan does a fantastic job. There's other people that have other areas of
00:31:42
expertise where they're advocating for disability rights and and making it normal. And the more they do that, the
00:31:48
more normal it is. Um for me, I find parking a huge thing. Um because as soon as you're in a chair and you want to get
00:31:57
places, you've got to be able to get there and get out. Um and through doing
00:32:03
this, I actually found interestingly enough, not a single accessible car park in Oakland area, the whole of Oakland,
00:32:11
so super city of Oakland on public roads is up to code. Reason being there is no code for
00:32:20
public roads. The building code of compliance, NSS4121, is a building code of compliance, but only relates to car
00:32:29
parks in or around a building, not public roads. So, the building code doesn't doesn't apply. And also the fact
00:32:38
that if they make them wide enough and long enough for accessibility, it actually falls outside of the remitt for
00:32:44
them to, you know, issue infringement notices or tow. So I'm like, why? So I'm
00:32:52
still following that up. It's it's years of process and it does take a lot of
00:32:56
time, but it's not every day all the time. It's it's on my mind when I drive
00:33:00
around looking at car parks, but it's um it's just something that I do in the
00:33:06
background just passion. Does it um does it frustrate you, [ __ ] you off? Like is
00:33:11
it is it a is it a compounding effect? Like you know, you just get, you know, more and more furious every time you
00:33:17
come across it. When I was younger, uh, and and very immature, I I would slash tires with a pin knife and I would spray
00:33:26
brake fluid on the cars and I would, uh, smash windows and No, I wasn't I wasn't
00:33:32
agitated or angry at all. Um, but that was that was young me. That was young me. So, don't park an accessible car
00:33:39
park. Stabby stab. Um, no. Uh, but I I've explained it cuz I I've been on a
00:33:46
breakfast show and they they said, you know, should I confront people? And I said, no, never confront somebody. I've
00:33:52
been threatened. I've been grabbed around the throat. You know, who are you? The [ __ ] police I'll smash you.
00:33:56
And you at the end of the day, you're trying to kill out an ant colony one ant
00:34:01
at a time, and you just can't do it. It's it's the idiom of of folly. You
00:34:08
just can't do it. You've got to go for the root of the nest. And the only way
00:34:12
to do that is the jugular, which is your local councils, your MPs, um, Oakland Transport, whoever it is. And if it
00:34:20
annoys you enough, do something about it. Be the change you want to see. Take action. Do something rather than just
00:34:26
cry at home or moan about it to people. That doesn't change the world. That doesn't do anything at all. And so
00:34:33
that's what I do. Yeah. But it takes so much energy to stay with it. That it
00:34:37
does. And and and that's why I've channeled the energy from slashing tires
00:34:43
to to to following up emails um from from spraying brake fluid on cars um to writing down diary notes um and taking
00:34:52
photos. And that's all it is is channeling the energy into a different pathway. Then instead of being angry, I
00:34:59
I let it go. I let it go, but I take a photo. And then I have I I literally have about 4,000 photos of of couers and
00:35:08
I'm not bagging careers because they have a bloody hard job. But then couriers don't follow up and say there's
00:35:13
no courier parking or there's no loading zone. They just park in the accessible
00:35:17
car park. And I get it because I'd probably do it too. So what are they doing to change? Nothing. So then I need
00:35:24
to follow up and make the change. And then taxis do it. And I got asked on the breakfast show. It's like who's more
00:35:29
responsible? Is it an age? Is it a sex? Is it a race? I said, "No, there's
00:35:33
there's three people that do it. There's adolescent, ignorant, and arrogant.
00:35:38
That's it." And and and that is across the board. And and there is no change.
00:35:43
So, I can't go to the individuals. I have to go upline. I have to go to somebody bigger and say, "Well, you need
00:35:50
to be able to find people on private car parks. You need a a better way of finding uh infringement noticing people,
00:35:59
breach noticing on public roads. There's got to be a better way of doing it. So,
00:36:03
it's just about me following up, me emailing, me making official complaints a lot and uh and just continuing.
00:36:13
That's really good. I love that thing. Adolescent, ignorant, arrogant. Just trying to think what camp I'm definitely
00:36:19
not adolescent. What about Can you What about if you if you don't think you're
00:36:24
ignorant or arrogant, but it's just really really raining and you're only
00:36:27
going in for two minutes. I think that falls into the arrogant camp, you know, just just got because you're definitely
00:36:32
not adolescent. Not not that I'm judging because we're the same age, you know.
00:36:37
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's got a reason and there has been a couple of times where um you know, you make eye
00:36:44
contact or you see some and and they move out, you know, and they park out. In fact, years ago, I remember saying it
00:36:50
to to one guy um in the driver's seat and he was like, "Oh, whatever." anyway
00:36:55
and went inside the shop and his mate in the passenger seat said, "Hey, dude.
00:36:58
Look, I'm so sorry. Look, I can't drive his car, but I'm really glad you said
00:37:03
something and I'll I'll have it at him when he comes back." And I was like,
00:37:06
"That's cool." You that's creating social change. That's him helping his
00:37:10
friend change cuz most of the time, and this is why I say don't go up to individuals, um you've cornered someone,
00:37:18
they've done wrong, and you've you've got like playing hide-and-seek. You've
00:37:21
caught them and they're like, "No, it wasn't me. what's your problem? And you
00:37:25
know, they know they've been caught out. So, it's like, look, just Yeah. Don't do
00:37:29
it. Yeah. Yeah. I I think Yeah. That applies um Yeah. You're talking about in
00:37:34
real life um interactions, but it's the same as social media. Like, no one wants
00:37:37
to be like berated or shouted at. The best thing you can do is try and educate people. E Yeah. Rather, you re reason
00:37:42
with them a little bit. But even on social media, education, how does it how does that go? Happy face, angry face. Um
00:37:50
okay, let's go let's go back in time. Um Okay. So you're born in England. Yeah.
00:37:56
What? Yeah. And you moved to New Zealand when you were when you're 10 years old.
00:37:59
Yeah. What are your memories of the first 10 years? Uh schooling schooling was very different. It was uh and this
00:38:06
is going back, you know, a few years ago now. It' be um uh in the 70s late '7s.
00:38:14
Yeah. I was I was born in the 70s. So we came over here 86 85 86. And back then,
00:38:21
New Zealand was around about a 2year um gap lag. Um so the learning and the schooling that I had in England was very
00:38:30
different to the schooling and the learning here. So I came over here and I was not going to say I was like a god.
00:38:36
Um but I knew everything and so I was very lazy. But then that's been me all
00:38:42
the way through school and still now. It's like oh yeah, I can do that or whatever. Um and and continue on. If I
00:38:47
don't need to learn it or I don't need to do it, I I don't. I'm I'm at school
00:38:51
to eat lunch. That's it. And and then continue. What about um teasing or bullying or anything like that? Cuz you
00:38:56
must have you must have stood out like a sore thumb like being a a kid with an English accent. Absolutely. But then But
00:39:02
did you have the charm and the charisma that you've got now to sort of override
00:39:05
that? Yeah. Yeah. I I made some good friends. Some um actually a friend over from Australia at the moment. He's
00:39:11
actually from primary school. Uh, and we made friends at primary school and we just continued on.
00:39:18
And teasing is I want to say a natural form like the child's natural chant. It's no one teaches them that.
00:39:26
It's just innate. Um, and after studying at teachers chain in college, you you
00:39:31
learn bullying is normal, but it's the level of bullying. And nowadays with social media and stuff and and phones
00:39:39
and things, it's 100% all the time full on. And that's too much bullying for
00:39:44
anyone to take. And I I I hate and despise that. And hate is a big word. It's like the C word, isn't it? Um but
00:39:51
yeah, back in the day you'd get bullied, but it wouldn't be all day every day. It
00:39:55
wouldn't be from the moment you turned up at school or left school. And it definitely wasn't after school unless
00:40:00
you saw those bullies. Yeah. You'd get a reprieve. Your home was sort of a safe
00:40:04
haven. Yeah. or the or the bully was in another class. Uh you know, and you only
00:40:08
saw them at lunchtime or or playtime. Um but yeah, I got teased. It was um what's
00:40:12
the surname worn? So it was you worn out and you worn out pants cuz we had cut off jeans. Um you know, I can't remember
00:40:20
stuff. I know I got teased. I know I got teased. I think I think most people do.
00:40:25
Most people do in primary school. Um Okay. Yes. I've heard you describe yourself as a a happy kid with a big
00:40:32
smile. That's I feel like I feel like that's the um that's the adult Lee Warn that I
00:40:38
know as well. A thank you. Would that be fair to say? Yeah. I still don't know
00:40:42
what to do with my hands. Um but yeah. Yeah. I keep I keep them up here so people can see. Look, I'm not I'm not
00:40:47
hiding cards and I'm not playing with myself. Um yeah, it it is it is. But it's also a facade. It's an easy facade
00:40:55
to have. And that's what I had in those first five years is is the happy league
00:41:00
because you can't see underneath. And unless you ask, when you ask, hey, how
00:41:04
you doing? Everyone says, oh, I'm good. And that one person that you ask, hey,
00:41:08
how you doing? They go, well, actually, yeah, I've got a sore shoulder and you
00:41:11
know, I got bowel problem and and this happened yesterday and my dad died and you know, my dog got run over on the
00:41:16
way. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I was just saying hello. You know, like I
00:41:20
just, you know, I didn't actually ask anything. But that's cuz we don't
00:41:24
actually ask. We don't actually ask someone how they doing and we don't mean
00:41:29
it. We just want a brief, you're good. Oh, good. And and then we continue on.
00:41:34
And that's that's my happy face, right? And that's most people's happy face.
00:41:39
It's like a mask for the outside world. Yeah. And uh I I've got to remember to
00:41:43
take it off. Mhm. And that's what I do now as as a as an adult and as you know,
00:41:49
37 years in a chair. Got to learn to be able to take it off. You can't wear it
00:41:53
all the time. You can't be And it's not fake. It's being nice. Um, it's relatability and I can't
00:42:01
pretend to be that person all the time. No one is that person all the time. You,
00:42:05
you know, it's like you're switched on, you're here, you're now, and when you go
00:42:08
home, you don't want to be switched on here and now. You You want to relax. You
00:42:11
have your gin and your cigar or whatever it is, your Havana, and put your feet up
00:42:16
and you do nothing. And you're watching Netflix because that's how some people
00:42:19
chill out. And I I I take it off and I'll talk to my friends and be honest with them. Yeah. When did when did you
00:42:27
when when did you start working on that? Because I think it's it's it's a work
00:42:30
on, isn't it? That vulnerability piece. Yeah. Abs. Vulnerability. That's the
00:42:34
word. Um and and it is an everyday thing. I I take it off when I'm home. You know, I tell my cats everything and
00:42:41
they're such good listeners. Uh they're not really. They don't care. Feed me.
00:42:45
I'm gone. Well, you told me at the start of the podcast, one of them has run
00:42:48
away. I shared a lot with Penny yesterday. So, yeah. um it started after those 5 years. So when I talk about the
00:42:57
the the downhill spiral and um being negative with other people and and the abuse that a lot of people around me
00:43:04
took, it was from you. From me and and it was my fault and only had me to blame. And then of course you were just
00:43:11
frustrated though, right? Absolutely. But when you take that off and you look at yourself and then then I'm kicking
00:43:17
myself and I'm punching myself because I'm an idiot and I've abused this
00:43:20
person. Instead of just going, "Oh, well, I did wrong. I I'll ring him up
00:43:24
and say sorry, or I'll say sorry next time." It's like, "No, I'm going to beat
00:43:26
myself." I was literally my own worst enemy. I got in my way every step. I was
00:43:31
tripping myself up. I was punching myself. I poked myself in the eye. Did everything wrong that I could. And it
00:43:36
was only after I started to make some changes. And it was after the suicide that I came back from that that I
00:43:43
realized I've got to make changes. And again, I'm slow learner. So, it wasn't a
00:43:47
a sudden change. It was it it took several years to actually start getting better and one of the instrumental
00:43:54
things and people do say this sport was was huge and it wasn't about going to
00:43:59
the parolympics but being involved in sport and training meant that I couldn't
00:44:04
hang out with the same people all the time. I could still see them occasionally but I missed out on some
00:44:09
parties. I missed out on some birthdays. I missed out on some seriously special events. But looking back on it, the good
00:44:15
friends are still there because they understood. And stopping partying all the time meant that I stopped drinking
00:44:22
and stopped smoking, stopped doing drugs, and that I had a new focus. And the new focus was, funnily enough, being
00:44:28
fit. At 37 years in a chair, 50 years old, I'm pretty healthy considering got
00:44:34
some shoulder niggles and stuff, but realistically, I'm I'm pretty healthy.
00:44:39
Yeah. Yeah. And to be fair, like some of those things we talked about before, like the runs, um, you know, the
00:44:44
skydiving, bungee jump, you know, if if you go to parties every weekend, they tend some of them are
00:44:50
special events, but generally they sort of roll into one. Um, but these these these big sort of clinical events in
00:44:55
your life, they sort of stand out. Otherwise, all the years sort of roll into one. Um, okay. October 31st, 1989.
00:45:04
Oh, why would you bring up that date? So, it was an accident involving a 50 cc scooter, like a nifty50 they were called
00:45:11
back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. And it was actually the nifty50 as well. So, so for
00:45:16
those that don't understand that anything under a 50 cc um range, you don't need a motorbike license. It's
00:45:22
it's a car license covered by a car license. Um and some friends and I, we acquired, liberated, borrowed
00:45:32
long-term loan without asking uh a motorbike. Um, but these these were the friends I was hanging out with, the idle
00:45:39
hands of the devil play things, and we were smart enough to be idiots. Uh, and good people, but still we got into
00:45:47
trouble. Um, so we stole this motorbike. We couldn't get it going. It took a couple of days and eventually we
00:45:54
got it going and, you know, we pulled a cord like a um a lawn mower and rode it up the streets. And of course, I didn't
00:46:01
have a car license. I was 16 years old and I I didn't have the the nouse, the
00:46:08
street smarts. I should never have been on a bike. In fact, the previous time I'd been on a motorbike was twice. I had
00:46:15
only been on a motorbike twice previously. Sorry. Uh once was when I was uh seven in England at this place
00:46:22
called St. O. And you you ride around these tiny little mini motorbikes. I got to the first corner, hit the tires, fell
00:46:29
off, my foot got caught in the chain, hit the cog, bike got shut down, I went to hospital and got six stitches in my
00:46:35
foot. Like that gives you an idea of how bad I am on a motorbike. And the next time it was doubling with a friend,
00:46:41
Kevin Goss. Um, and so I wasn't riding. So really all I had to do is hang on to
00:46:46
him and lean when he leaned. That was it. So this was the third time on a bike and yeah, idiot. So I got probably I
00:46:53
don't know 200 meters up the road. Um, I hit a curb. I remember thinking, "Oh no,
00:46:58
I'm going to hit the curb." And I did. Of course, I tensed up like a twig.
00:47:02
Little wheels hit the curb, went sideways. I went the other way, landed on a fence because I was all tensed up.
00:47:09
Um, it it it smashed three of my ribs. Um, two of the ribs went in my left lung, which then started filling with
00:47:16
blood. The shock wave smashed T12 vertebrae. And here I am laying on a fence. One one lung's filled with blood,
00:47:24
the other one is probably getting a quarter air um because I'm leaning on a fence and I'm I'm
00:47:32
unconscious. I was super lucky. Someone passing heard this kufflele cuz it wasn't really a an
00:47:39
accident and pulled me off the fence and laid me on the ground. And in doing that, um, that movement would have been
00:47:50
what bits of bone and and the T12 that was now smashed would have damaged the spinal cord and lay me on the ground.
00:47:57
But it saved my life. If he hadn't have pulled me off, I would have drowned in
00:48:01
my own blood and and and suffocated. If the fence hadn't have been there, I would have fallen down a 30ft drop and
00:48:07
no one would have found me. Even my friends wouldn't have found me when they
00:48:09
came looking for me because you couldn't see down there. There was bushes and
00:48:13
things. This is out and lang home in Bha. Um yeah, it was it was pretty horrific.
00:48:21
I remember laying in and in and out of consciousness. I remember being in the ambulance and saying to them, "Oh, I've
00:48:29
never been in ambulance before. Can you turn the sirens on?" And they're like,
00:48:32
"No, no, we can't turn the sirens on." Again, I asked the dumbest things. Uh
00:48:37
and they You got to seize the opportunity. I Yeah. Yeah. when in Rome, you know, go to the spearium in the in
00:48:43
the sexology place. Um, so so I asked them to turn the sirens on. They said, "No, we we can't. You've damaged the
00:48:49
spine and we don't know how bad it is and if we put the sirens on, we drive fast and we we can't do that." And it
00:48:56
didn't register with me. I'm 60 years old. I haven't got a clue what's going
00:49:00
on. But you had no feeling or anything. No. But you didn't you didn't immediately like panic and assume the
00:49:04
war. Not at all. But it just didn't register. You know, when I've said several times, I'm a slow learner. They
00:49:11
would have had to have said it like really and really in detail and given me pictures and boards and diagrams and
00:49:16
drawn on a whiteboard. I I'm Yeah. Some things I get and other things I don't.
00:49:21
And if I've got no um connection to it, it just doesn't make sense. Suppose when
00:49:26
you're 16, even if you've got no feeling from the neck down or the shoulders down
00:49:30
or the nipples down, wherever it was, you just assume everything's going to be
00:49:33
okay. Yeah. Someone's going to fix me. Yeah. arm in a cast, it the heels up.
00:49:37
You were good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, went into hospital. Um I remember having X-rays, holding my breath, somebody
00:49:44
poking me in the side, and I I couldn't work out why. Um painkillers, they don't
00:49:49
kill the pain. They're just pain. I don't cares. Turns out what it was was
00:49:53
somebody was actually knifing me in the side and then pushing a tube in there to
00:49:57
allow the blood to come out of um my lung so that then the lung could heal itself. Um yeah. And then there um wires
00:50:06
and dodes and things all over me and and mom on one side, dad on the other, and a
00:50:10
doctor at the end of the bed. And he explains to me what's happened and says,
00:50:13
"You're never going to walk again." So this is like hours after the accident.
00:50:17
This is the next day or this is this is the next day. We've had a few operations
00:50:21
and it still didn't resonate with me. It it didn't make any sense. Understand the
00:50:26
words, but they there's no connection to the words. There's no connection to to a
00:50:31
visualization of what it meant. you know, the rest of your life is going to be in a wheelchair. Do you understand?
00:50:36
You're not going to be able to go to the beach. Stairs are going to be a problem.
00:50:39
And all these sorts of issues just didn't register. And like you say, maybe on a subconscious level, I was thinking,
00:50:46
okay, for a while, you know, and then I'll be all right. you know, then you go
00:50:49
to the spine unit, you learn how to take care of yourself, and you learn how to get around in a chair, and and it takes
00:50:55
a long time, and then you go home, and then you try and continue on with life, and there's there's something gnoring
00:51:01
away at your soul, at your spirit, and the subconscious level. And that was where I was for 5
00:51:09
years. How traumatic was that that day or that period for your parents? Oh, I put on a brave face for you or were they
00:51:16
just like inconsolable? My my mom deals with things very well. She would have cried by herself with no
00:51:24
one around or she would have cried with good friends. She never would have shown
00:51:28
any emotion in front of me. Dad was angry and he blamed he tried to blame somebody. He was
00:51:36
asking all these questions to try and figure out who was to blame, who got the bike, who was driving the car, who took
00:51:41
me there, so that he could blame somebody. And he he he did actually ask quite a few of my friends about it. Um,
00:51:47
and it turned out it was me. You know, the only person to blame was me and and he then had to process that because he
00:51:55
couldn't get angry at me because I'm his son. I suppose it's natural like in things
00:52:01
like this. You you want a scapegoat, right? Yeah. How was your um mental health over this
00:52:06
time? Horrendous. Like like I say, I was my own worst enemy. Uh beating myself up
00:52:12
all the time because I did wrong things. How one time I remember I was drunk. It
00:52:17
was about 11 o'clock in the morning because that was my life. Um I was wearing these leather pants and the zip
00:52:23
didn't work and I wasn't wearing underwear because the the more pressure
00:52:28
sors the more seams that you have on your on your pants and things, the more likely you are to get a pressure sore.
00:52:34
And a pressure saw turns into a bruise which then eats away at the tissue and then you get septia and you die. Um, but
00:52:41
if you get a pressure sore, you then have to lay on your front and it can cause weeks, months, if not an operation
00:52:47
and then years in hospital laying on your front. And I didn't want any of that. So, I was trying to alleviate
00:52:51
that. So, I I've got to lay some groundwork here cuz otherwise it sounds super bad, but it was. So, I'm wearing
00:52:56
these leather pants. It's about 11:00 in the morning. Um, I've got no underwear
00:53:01
on. The zip's broken. And of course, old Jolly Rogers hanging out there. Um, but
00:53:06
it's it's not that jolly. It's a cold day. Um, and I meet up with an old
00:53:10
school friend and I'm like, "Oh, hey, how you doing?" I remember having some
00:53:12
stupid conversation and she just wanted to get away. Whereas I was like, "Oh
00:53:16
yeah, no, blah, blah, blah." And it wasn't until a friend told me later when
00:53:20
we got back in the car and went back home and you do realize a you're drunk,
00:53:24
b it's 11:00 in the morning, and c you know, and I was like, "Oh, yeah." Uhhuh.
00:53:29
And because you weren't aware that your penis was was out. No, it wasn't me
00:53:33
like, "Woo!" Right. Oh, you weren't flashing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was it
00:53:37
was just an accident. So again, I beat myself up. My own worst enemy. I mean, why was I wearing the pants? Why didn't
00:53:42
I have a safety clip? There's so many concerns that I would have for somebody
00:53:47
like me if I met me now. I mean, I firstly I wouldn't want to be my friend cuz I was a dick. Um, but yeah, there's
00:53:57
how far have I come? You know, when I turn around and I look at myself, I'm like, "Wow, I was that guy and then now
00:54:03
I'm this guy." And you hear stories of somebody who was, you know, a murderer
00:54:06
or a thief or whatever, and then and then now they're this person and and they've turned their life around. Some
00:54:13
people can, some people can't. And I'm just I'm I'm super lucky. I'm
00:54:17
privileged. I'm blessed with the people around me and the situations that have
00:54:22
come up that have allowed me to, as I say, change very slowly, very painfully for some of my friends, um, but become
00:54:28
the person I am and still become better every day. I'm so pleased to hear about
00:54:33
this. um this you know funk part of your story because I I don't know no I sort
00:54:39
of you know I've known you for maybe 10 years maybe longer probably longer than
00:54:43
that and you've just always been like relentlessly like positive and upbeat so
00:54:46
I sort of imagined that's what you'd be like you know you get the bad news at 16
00:54:50
um and you'd I I just assumed you know you'd you know bounce back fairly
00:54:55
quickly and you with that glass half full sort of optimism just managed to find the good in the situation. So to
00:55:01
hear that you have this this period which is [ __ ] perfectly understandable. Um it's kind of refreshing. Thank you.
00:55:09
That I I have met other people in cheers though and and they have progress through those seven stages of grief or
00:55:15
whatever it is. Um very quickly um one guy I met literally two weeks but his what I thought you'd be like. Yeah.
00:55:22
Thank you. Hell no. Wasn't even two years almost two decades. I suppose that's a reflection on the person I know
00:55:27
now. Yeah. and and also that that that face that you see because I'm, you know,
00:55:32
putting it on. I'm I'm allowing it to come down now because of who we are and
00:55:36
and and what we're doing now. And and hopefully anyone that's that's watching
00:55:39
this can can relate. And that's what I want to be now is more of a relatable
00:55:43
person than just a fun person. I like being a mushroom, a fun guy. Um but I also like being real.
00:55:51
Yeah. Because being real is is more important than just being funny. And Yeah. this this other guy that I knew
00:55:58
two two weeks and I was I was jealous. I was because I wasted years of my life coming to terms with it and and getting
00:56:06
better. I don't He wasn't 100% but he was a good 90% there. Um but because of
00:56:12
who he was um you know he was a professional um still very young but his processes and his adult ability I mean
00:56:20
I'm still immature now but his his ability his maturity level was such that he could process work out ask questions
00:56:29
understand and move on from that. Yeah. How how old was he? Uh 20 21 20 or 21 but still very young.
00:56:43
Yeah. Yeah. Quite a big difference though between 16 and 21. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I wasn't.
00:56:51
Still barely 30 now, you know, as a 50-y old. So, um what what were the what were
00:56:56
the biggest surprises about suddenly being unable to walk? Wow. Um that when you say that the the first one that
00:57:08
comes to mind is toileting cuz I mean I I could say all these cool things about you know um you've read the
00:57:15
game by Neil Strauss about peacocking. I was literally peacocking everywhere I went and everything I did which was cool
00:57:20
but that's a secondary thing. The first thing was toileting and it sucked. That's the first thing you've got to
00:57:25
deal with with being in a chairs. Um and again depending on the spinal cord injury and where where you're at and
00:57:30
what level um some people deal with pain on a constant and I'm super lucky that I
00:57:36
don't have to deal with the pain but I did have to deal with toileting and to
00:57:39
me that was massive. Suddenly having no control over bowels and bladder my body tells me when to go but
00:57:46
it's not the normal like your body would tell you and it's in English and you
00:57:50
understand it. there's warning signs and there's a level of you know when it gets
00:57:54
to stage 10 you know at one you're like you can put it off for a little while no
00:57:58
it would be a whisper I wouldn't know there would be no warning signs and then
00:58:01
it's over and I've already gone doesn't matter whether you're on a toilet and
00:58:06
that was horrible and again part of those five years and coming to terms with a lot of that situation was was
00:58:14
horrible and you're 16 as well yeah you're navigating getting, you know, being a teenager and the puberty
00:58:23
years and just the confusion of hormones and everything else. All you want to do
00:58:27
is look good and get sex. I mean I mean sorry, get get an education. Yeah. And then now you got to deal with, you know,
00:58:34
you got to get up, get ready, and leave the house. And just as you're leaving
00:58:38
the house, you [ __ ] yourself. So then you got to go back to square one. So now
00:58:42
it takes you two hours, three hours to leave the house. and now you're late for
00:58:46
so now you're frustrated and you're driving angry and you get to that place
00:58:50
and maybe you got a speeding ticket on the way there as well. So now all these things compound and like I say
00:58:54
everything was locked up in this little wheelchair box and and it's just so angry all the time because it was
00:59:01
everything. Now I decompartmentalize. Now the wheelchair box is quite small but it's still there. It's still a
00:59:06
frustration. I can't do this. I can't reach that and this would be easier if I
00:59:10
couldn't. But it's still there. I I can't ever get rid of it because I am in
00:59:14
a chair and it does be frustrating. I mean it must be so frustrating being tall said no one ever apart from the
00:59:20
tallest guy in the world maybe. Um but each of us have a thing you know wearing glasses maybe I I can't move one finger
00:59:28
properly. It sounds so minial minuscule but to that individual it'll be a thing.
00:59:33
Somebody else maybe lost their their wedding finger which again quite minuscule but if they're going to get
00:59:37
married to them that's massive. Everyone's got a thing and it'll be their box along with all the daily
00:59:44
frustrations that we all have, you know, get out of my way, you know. Um, but yeah, it's it's just how I process, how
00:59:53
I deal with it, and and how I move on from it. The toiletry stuff now, that all good?
01:00:01
Now I'm 50, so there's other things going on. But there was a stage a few years ago um
01:00:08
where for a year it was it was horrible. Uh it it it backpedalled all the way back to when I was in the spine unit.
01:00:15
And even worse really because um it it I just couldn't get my bowels. There was
01:00:23
no it wasn't even an IBS, but it was it was similar. Um and I didn't know what
01:00:29
was going to happen today. It didn't matter what I ate. the body was just like, you know what, we'll do what we
01:00:34
want. And it did. So, I would um on average for for almost an entire year um have a bowel accident three times a week
01:00:44
on on average. And that was pretty horrible. And it really took me back to understanding and
01:00:53
processing and having to um rely on people around me and not get angry because it didn't matter how long it
01:01:01
took. I had an explanation or or a reason. Um and I had to tell people because I was I was late to this or this
01:01:10
happened. And getting angry doesn't fix it. Um actually well I did some standup
01:01:15
comedy and uh one of the times I had a bail accident I was actually at a conference and the toilet I could go
01:01:22
into this massively cool story that the outcome of it was is that I started to remember it on purpose and I started to
01:01:28
smile while I was still in it doing it and cleaning it and everything else. It was it was horrible. It's like that
01:01:35
daddy daycare scene where he's looking around there he's like the poo on the
01:01:39
roof and stuff. It there was it was horrid, but it's funny and and I'm sharing with you it's it's comical, but
01:01:45
I could tell you and it make you cry. But why why would I do that to myself? I didn't want to get angry anymore. And so
01:01:54
I took some learning and some experience that I've had about some standup comedy.
01:01:58
It's like I could tell this to people and make it funny. I could tell this story and evolve them in it and now this
01:02:05
experience isn't terrible and and they have some level of understanding and experience of it even not firsthand.
01:02:12
But then should that experience come to them uh or or or happen to someone around them, then maybe they'll smile
01:02:18
and laugh or be able to share with somebody else. Yeah, cuz humor is definitely humor is kind of another mask
01:02:24
in a way though, isn't it? Like a lot of a lot of comedians um are like like
01:02:28
deeply deeply sort of troubled and they they tell I actually I yeah when I um had one of my first therapy sessions I
01:02:34
found I was sort of like telling um yeah personal stories as jokes and the therapist just wasn't sitting there
01:02:40
laughing and I thought I was gold I've written these stories in books. These
01:02:44
are these trust me these are very very funny stories and the therapist was like it's it's just not that funny. It's not
01:02:51
that funny. It's your this is your life and it's not it's not funny. But it's
01:02:55
you can choose to Yeah. I don't know. There's a deep sadness beneath it though, right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
01:03:01
Absolutely. But the um like a therapy session is is very different to comedy. You you want somebody to laugh. You
01:03:08
don't really want your therapist to laugh. Yeah. Time and place. Yeah, definitely time and place. But in in
01:03:14
sharing sometimes sharing some of ourselves and this is again me me taking off the mask and being vulnerable. Um, I
01:03:21
feel sharing part of myself and part of my story with others makes me vulnerable. It also helps them
01:03:27
understand. And if I if I don't share that, like I cut one of my toes, I couldn't feel it. I didn't know what was
01:03:33
going on. I was just looking around for where this blood's coming from. Like,
01:03:35
where's this blood coming from? And then I see the front of my toes all cut off
01:03:38
and I'm like, I'm glad I can't feel that. That would really hurt. Pros and cons.
01:03:45
So, you've got no feeling from where? Uh, it's kind of numb from the knees
01:03:49
down, right? So, it's like pins and needles. I could put a foot in in hot water and cold water and not know which
01:03:56
is which. Okay. It'll be sending me signals saying, you know, there's something going on, but I don't know
01:04:01
which is which. I had a primary school kid once asked me, he goes, if I stab you in the leg, would you bleed? Like,
01:04:06
firstly, move them away from sharp objects. Uh, and secondly, to answer your question, there is blood moving
01:04:12
around my legs. Cuz that was essentially what he wanted to know. Uh and and this
01:04:18
is is taking the questions from people as well is what they're meaning, not the
01:04:23
words. I had someone else ask me in Australia, what's it like being a [ __ ] I'm like, I could have taken
01:04:29
offense to it. I don't cuz I I don't care. Um and I was just like, oh, it's
01:04:33
just like walking around, but I I do it sitting. And he was like, okay. And he walked off. He was he was
01:04:39
drunk. It's just it's just the same. All he wanted was an answer. Yeah. and he he
01:04:44
got an answer and it was okay with him and he moved on. Well, that's that's a
01:04:47
band word though, isn't it? The C word. The irony is is is you can say everything right to the wrong person and
01:04:57
it's wrong and you can say something wrong to the right person and it's right. So, so [ __ ] to me when you
01:05:05
look at terminology, not PC, look at terminology and the definition of a word. If I disable your car, I stop it
01:05:13
working. Now, if I take one of your wheels off, I've crippled your car, but I've not disabled it. You can still
01:05:20
drive it badly, but it would still move. And so, the difference between the two,
01:05:24
it's like, well, am I crippled or am I disabled? So, I don't really care. I I I
01:05:29
try and take off the PC terms because I'm not offended. But in this day and age, everyone's like, "Oh, you're
01:05:34
offended. You can't say crazy. You can't say don't cut yourself to get rid of the
01:05:38
pain." you can't say all these things. And I just say, "Look, I'm sorry. I'm
01:05:42
not saying them in an offensive way. I don't mean to be offensive. I don't mean
01:05:46
to be terrible. I try and watch my P's and Q's, but I I really can't." Um, and
01:05:51
just because I'm in a chat doesn't make it better. If anything, it probably
01:05:54
makes it worse, which is why I apologize so much. But I I do it on purpose. And like I say, I try and get better on a
01:06:01
daily. I try and look at um because I did have somebody online actually make a comment of one of the videos I had done
01:06:08
and said you can't say that that's that's really offensive and I was like
01:06:11
what rather than getting angry at him I relooked at it and was like that's offensive okay well I'm learning and and
01:06:19
I went back to him and said thanks you know cheers for letting me know I might do it again by accident but it won't be
01:06:25
on purpose and at least then I'll know what I've done that's why we have boundaries that's why
01:06:30
we have curbs to keep on the road, the straight and narrow. And if somebody wasn't telling me I was doing something
01:06:35
wrong, I wouldn't know. This is good stuff. Oh, good. Cuz I'm I'm thinking we've we've got another
01:06:43
three hours to go. This is No, this is it's it's really really interesting
01:06:48
stuff. Good. You got such a great attitude. So, um so you get out of hospital and the spinal unit, then you
01:06:53
go back home. Do you do you you live you're 16, so you're living at the family home. Do your parents have to
01:06:58
like modify the house? Yeah. Yes. And their vehicle need a new vehicle, same vehicle as everything again didn't have
01:07:05
a license at the time. So that was again was a whole new thing. U but I had to learn how to drive and I thought okay
01:07:12
how do I drive? Steering wheel, accelerator, brake. Okay, got it. I can drive. And then I had to do a driving
01:07:18
test. Uh and I got my driver's license and it actually ended up being all right. But for the house I was actually
01:07:25
incredibly lucky. Pardon me. In a very quick turnaround, I think it was only about two months, uh we managed to get
01:07:34
uh a house modified and then us move in from moving uh and leaving the spine unit. Uh nowadays, like in the now, um
01:07:44
let's say somebody left the spine unit. Um it would be maybe 6 months possibly
01:07:50
two years. It all depends on the modifications they need, their house approval. Are they MO which is the
01:07:56
Ministry of Health um which is the government system um or are they under ACC which is the basically you're you're
01:08:03
a government insurer uh as to how fast people work and what they're allowed. Yeah. Uh I had to learn how to
01:08:12
drive but I didn't have an understanding of how to drive with my legs anyway. And
01:08:16
the first time I actually went for a drive with somebody, a guy called Wallow actually, who was driving um with a
01:08:21
walking stick in his XC Falcon, I always remember freaking out because he's using
01:08:25
a stick. He's not using his legs. And I'm like, "Oh, wait. I I'll be doing the
01:08:28
same thing." I mean, obviously not with a walking stick, but he was uh he was
01:08:32
driving. And I was like, "Oh, well, I'm going to be doing the same thing
01:08:35
basically." And even now when I get in the car with another wheelchair person,
01:08:40
it seems so dumb because it's exactly what I do. I freak out because they're
01:08:44
not using their legs. because we're so attuned to what we see and and looking
01:08:50
outwardly, not looking inwardly at ourselves. And it it takes me a second to bite my tongue and just I do exactly
01:08:56
the same thing. But it's it's all about control. And we're used to seeing the
01:09:00
control done with with four limbs. And when it's only done with two limbs, suddenly it's like it's a freak out.
01:09:06
Yeah. You're so quick at it now. Like you you pulled into Pod Lab today for the podcast and you just have the chair
01:09:11
collapsed on the passenger seat, fling that out on the ground and then put yourself in it and Yeah. Well, I get
01:09:18
every month 30 seconds. I get a new chair every month. So, I just chuck it out, get a new chair. It's a throwaway
01:09:23
thing. Yeah. No, but it's it's like under a minute though from the time you
01:09:27
parked to the time you're out. Uh there's there's two things to that. One
01:09:32
is that um you don't want to take time in the rain, so you learn how to do it
01:09:36
quite quickly. Uh and you also kind of don't want to damage your car because
01:09:40
then you're driving around a scratched and damaged and dented car. Um and and
01:09:44
the other thing is that I've got to be careful of my shoulders because I'm
01:09:49
doing, you know, this every day. When I was a sales rep, I was pulling my chair in and out of the car. I think I counted
01:09:54
once 30 times in one day. It's a lot of transfers. Um, but again, you do that same routine
01:10:03
thing. Yes, it's a wear and tear, but it also builds up strength and technique.
01:10:08
So, it's it's kind of a horrible catch 22. So, now I'm I'm 50 and I've been in
01:10:14
chair for several years. I'm looking at a thing called an Abbeby loader where
01:10:17
the boot opens up and this mechanical arm comes around and grabs the chair and puts it in the boot. And so now I have
01:10:24
no boot, but I also don't have to worry about putting the chair in the car. That's something I'm looking at after a
01:10:30
shoulder operation in three or four years after I do some more marathons cuz I'm not allowed the surgery before I do
01:10:35
more marathons. Is that right? Is there going to be like a line in the sand like get this out of
01:10:40
your system and then we'll and then we're done. Because I talked to the surgeon and said so like you know I'm
01:10:45
going to get the surgery this year. It was all planned for March the 18th this year. uh and uh you know I'm going to do
01:10:50
a few more marathons and that and he was like so tell me again and I explained to
01:10:55
him and he goes you no no that's not a good idea. Uh so I'm like okay yeah but most of the
01:11:02
[ __ ] you've done is not a good idea. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. But I
01:11:06
I I take the the the pain and the fact that I'm going to be on bed rest for 6
01:11:11
months. Minimum six is probably more likely 9 month recovery. And now think to yourself, could you
01:11:18
deal with three to six months of being at home mostly on bed rest? No. Do it twice. Okay, maybe three times. And
01:11:27
you're like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's just do it once because if I did
01:11:31
this shoulder this year, which I could do, that's the recovery, and then I'll
01:11:37
have to do this one at the end of the marathon, and then I might need this one done again a few years after that. I
01:11:43
like, "Well, let's do both and become a T-Rex." Um, you know, I think of
01:11:47
Deadpool. You know, the T-Rex was the most feared creature of all the animals. Uh, yeah. And, um, get it done once and
01:11:55
then forget about it, move on. Yeah. Um, Yes. So, back to when you're 16. Yeah. Um, so your friends at the time,
01:12:03
your your your young hoodlam friends, the Scooter Gang, were they were they like supportive and inclusive or they
01:12:11
were so supportive. Dom um was it survivor guilt, do you think in a way? Uh, no. Because the the the biggest
01:12:18
advocate, the the biggest friend, the one that was forcing me to go, I don't
01:12:22
think he asked me if I wanted to go to the beach. The first time I went to the beach, he just said, "We're going to the
01:12:26
beach." and and they came in the cars, whatever they were, the the eh holdings
01:12:30
and the XC Falcon and probably the Escort that was stolen. Um, and we went to the beach and and we went we went on
01:12:37
the sand and it was just we're going um and he was like the the leader of the
01:12:41
gang or the the group leader and and um it it wasn't really a gang, it was just
01:12:46
a group of us and um he was just we going places, we're doing things. Lee was part of the group, he still was part
01:12:52
of the group. Off you come, you know, and and we did it. And I remember that first trip to the beach and it was it
01:12:58
was pretty sucky, but it was also awesome. It was making me go places and doing the things that I didn't want to
01:13:05
do without question. Um I remember sitting there on the sand and watching them um play in my chair and and getting
01:13:12
pushed out and and taking it in the there was salt water and and the chair seized up and we had to throw it. It was
01:13:18
worth like $1,000 back in the day. It was horrendous. But but it's laughing.
01:13:22
See, and it was it was doing those things that made it normal. If we if we're laughing, it's normal. When we're
01:13:29
not laughing, something's wrong. And when you acknowledge something wrong all
01:13:34
the time, you're feeling pain all the time, and it hurts all the time. And you
01:13:38
can't hurt all the time. You can't laugh all the time. And that takes me Robin
01:13:43
Williams. But you you've got to share. You've got to take the mask off. You've
01:13:46
got to be real. And that's what I'm I'm all about now. And I I don't want to cry
01:13:52
but I do it does take me back it does take me back to that time where um everything hurt. Getting up in the
01:14:01
morning hurt going places hurt my physically or emotionally or both? Emotionally. I I didn't have any pain
01:14:10
apart from internal again because I was in my way. If I wasn't beating myself up
01:14:15
um I was worried what other people were saying about me. M one incident I had a woman ask me if I needed help getting
01:14:23
out of the car. Probably a lovely old lady. I remember swearing at her and yelling at her saying, "I don't need
01:14:29
help. What if I was drunk? Was I drunk? Would you still help me?" You know,
01:14:33
[ __ ] [ __ ] off. And and she probably never offered help again. And and again,
01:14:39
I'd beat myself up later on that day and say, "I should have done this and I
01:14:42
could have done that and what I'd done differently because I was still angry. I
01:14:47
was angry at everyone not accepting help. It's not to say I accept help now,
01:14:53
but now I'll let someone down easy and say, "Thank you so much for offering.
01:14:57
Yeah, I'm all right." Or, "Can you hold this and make it take longer?" But then
01:15:01
then they'll offer somebody else. And this other person might not be able to
01:15:06
ask for help. They might be too ignorant. It might be too early on in their their wheelchair spinal cord
01:15:11
injury journey or whatever it is that they can't and and somebody needs to offer help. When you push me up the
01:15:17
ramp, I I could have pushed the whole way and I wasn't like, "Hey, don't touch
01:15:20
me." I was like, "Oh, he's giving me a bit of a turbo push. Look at that." And
01:15:24
and you help me up. That wasn't offensive, but some people would take it that way as as the word
01:15:30
[ __ ] and all these sorts of things. It's all about where the person's at and
01:15:35
how they take things. M I I'm not a PC person. I don't worry about somebody
01:15:40
trying to help me. I've been dropped by airlines. And what do you mean? Yeah.
01:15:46
I'm not going to go down. No, we don't. Emirates. Um but uh I didn't say their name, you know. I was
01:15:55
coughing. It was cough. It just sounded like just sounded like that. Um but what
01:16:00
do you mean they dropped you? Yeah. Are the brakes on? Yes. What you mean is no cuz here I am on the floor. Yeah. They
01:16:09
dropped me and it's then then you send an email saying, "Hey, look, this
01:16:14
happened." Takes four months. You get a reply and they say, "Oh, we talked to
01:16:18
our crew and there's nothing wrong and that didn't happen and you never told us
01:16:21
there was a problem. So, hey, we'll see you again on another flight." And I'm
01:16:24
like, "Yeah, no, never." Um, and I put it down to training, understanding there's a culture
01:16:31
difference. other airlines I've got on and they've said, "Oh, your seat's just
01:16:35
just two steps." And I'm like, "Yeah." And they're like, "No, it's just two
01:16:39
just two steps." And I'm like, "Yeah, no, I can't." And they're like, "Oh, but
01:16:43
if you can just stand up, we help you." And I'm like, "Yeah, no, it's that's not
01:16:47
happening." Um, and years of experience of travel have taught me that they're
01:16:52
not being offensive. They're not doing it on purpose. It's their understanding
01:16:56
of disability for them is somebody in a chair that can't mobilize very well. Not
01:17:02
can't mobilize at all. Their understanding is it's hard, not impossible. Whereas for me, yeah, unless
01:17:09
I'm floating, it's not happening. Uh and I I used to get offended by that. And
01:17:15
now I'm just like, no, like you need to understand that I I actually can't walk
01:17:18
at all. There's no point yelling at someone and there's no point trying to
01:17:23
educate them, you know, and laying down the law and then pulling out some Google
01:17:26
maps and and explaining on a on a scale of, you know, spinal cord injuries and where nerve endings go and how muscles
01:17:32
work. It's it's just very simply just saying, "I don't work the way you think
01:17:37
I do." And um that yeah, it's it's not really offensive, but look, it's not
01:17:43
happening. and then hoping that the next time they come across somebody else that
01:17:47
they'll have a little bit more knowledge base or experience to draw on that they
01:17:52
might say things differently because that next person might might just mouth off and explode at them for some reason.
01:18:01
So um yes so you had that angry period the the do we call them the self-pity years? What do we ooh self-pity
01:18:10
self-pity um self-deprecating um annoying angry you can call them many names and any name
01:18:18
you put on it is true what was the what was the turning point cuz you were quite
01:18:22
quite late to discovering sport that it took you like 11 years so you're like
01:18:25
late 20s so yeah yeah late 20s the um I mean that's like what that's that's
01:18:32
almost 80 years old in in like rugby terms is because there or tennis like 36 years old is oh my gosh she's so old
01:18:40
still playing tennis she's 13 she should be um yeah there's the progression of
01:18:45
breaking my back um the horrible times um and then the um suicide and then that was the turning point I the slow
01:18:56
learning side of it was I didn't I didn't try again um but that was when I got as low as I
01:19:03
could possibly get and I say that in the way of that It was me getting me low and
01:19:10
there wasn't anyone else to blame. If if I had have succeeded, if I had have
01:19:13
died, um there wasn't anyone else to blame. And regardless of what I had wrote, cuz I think I wrote a suicide
01:19:20
note. Um What do you mean you think? I think cuz I I don't know. I ripped all that stuff
01:19:26
up. I got rid of stuff. I mean, I I blamed all these other things and I I think there was a diary. I think I wrote
01:19:32
something. I don't know. But whatever I wrote, I can look back on it now and
01:19:35
honestly say it didn't matter because I was the one to blame. Even if I said,
01:19:40
"Oh, it was my mom's fault or it was my dad's fault or it was it was this friend
01:19:44
and they did this or I wrote all this list of these people have hurt me." Um,
01:19:49
it's all bollocks cuz it's all me. It's all internal. I made the choice and I
01:19:53
made the choice because of my decisions and what was going on in my head and and
01:19:59
yeah. So why was the um suicide attempt um a turning point? Was it um like did did you wake up and sort of have this
01:20:06
euphoric moment where you you were so lucky that you survived or was it just seeing the hurt that you'd caused your
01:20:12
loved ones or again slow learning? I wish I could say that Dom I wish I could say that I I woke up the next day and
01:20:19
and everything was fine. This is my second chance. I'm not going to squander. Well, we'll see. Like don't
01:20:25
you get three lives? I put in my 20 cents. Where? What? Yeah. Um, no, I woke up the next day and they gave me a pill.
01:20:34
Uh, and then I I I didn't really question it and and yeah, it evolved. The the first three days I I think were
01:20:42
a blur. Um, I did find out they didn't pump my stomach. Um, because the sleeping pills I had taken were actually
01:20:48
so pathetic um that they didn't pump my stomach. And I said, "You should have."
01:20:52
I said, "You should do it to anyone because I don't know if you've you've
01:20:57
ever gone through this. But I'm assuming you haven't. Um, but anyone that has
01:21:00
gone through a a pmic stump, a stomach pump, um, the sucking out of everything in your stomach. So that's the acids,
01:21:09
the the the lining that. So you're in so much pain. You feel the sickest you have
01:21:15
ever been in your life and it doesn't go away quickly. that that to me is something that is almost punishment that
01:21:24
needs to be done to somebody that is has tried to do it and and not succeeded. It's like, hey, this is what's going to
01:21:29
happen when you live. But they didn't. Uh but I I did take these these happy
01:21:35
pills. I don't even remember what they were, what they were called, uh for a
01:21:38
couple of days. And then I questioned it. I was like, why am I taking these? And they were like, oh, this is to help
01:21:44
you chemical imbalance. And I'm like, well, how long am I going to take them
01:21:49
for? And they're like, "Oh, like this is longterm." And I'm like, "What if I
01:21:53
forget? What if I miss one? What if I skip a few? What if I travel and I haven't taken any with me?" "Oh, don't."
01:22:00
And I'm like, "Well, I don't like that idea. How about I just don't take them?"
01:22:03
And they're like, "Oh, what? What?" And it kind of freaked them out like people
01:22:08
don't say that. You know, you've had a suicide attempt. You know, we've got to
01:22:11
try and it's like, well, it's not band-aid. This is something now you're
01:22:16
giving me a crutch. and you're saying, "I'm going to have to keep using this
01:22:18
crutch on a daily basis." So, I was at least smart enough to to say no to that.
01:22:23
I've got to fix myself, not take this pill. And then I I'm pretty sure it was
01:22:29
the same day I was sitting looking. I was in in Vicle uh hospital and I was I was watching the buildings and uh the in
01:22:38
the smoking area and this lady next to me was having an argument with herself about not giving herself a cigarette.
01:22:47
outwardly. And that was when I realized, yeah, I'm pretty normal. That's not
01:22:51
normal. I'm normal, normal as I can be. And I need to get out of here and get
01:22:56
back home. I need to get myself fixed. And I need to I need to do differently to what I've done to get here. I need to
01:23:03
share with people cuz I realized I was wearing a clown mask and I just didn't
01:23:06
take it off. It just sat on. I was in the Squid Games and the mask was on the whole time and I I I need to take it off
01:23:13
and I need to share with people. I still didn't go to therapy. I felt that if I needed to
01:23:20
share, I needed to share with friends so they understood and I now understand therapy is a bit different because the
01:23:27
therapist listens to you. They don't go, "Oh yeah, I had a friend Jim and start
01:23:31
telling you their stories." The therapist actually helps you unpack yourself and that's why I enjoy going to
01:23:37
therapy now because I can share and they don't try and give me an idiom or an
01:23:41
analogy or or recycle it back to me. They just try and get to the root so I can get it out of me, understand it, and
01:23:49
then put it back away nicely and in a in a uniform or Lego brick way rather than
01:23:54
it just it just springs out wherever all the time. So I shared with friends and it helped but it wasn't until I actually
01:24:02
got proper help which was again several years later that I could see some of the
01:24:07
things I was doing. So where are we at now when you started therapy? like 30s, 40s, 50s.
01:24:17
Really? Just recently I I did god we're slow learners. Very slow learners. Me
01:24:21
both. Uh when I actually I was at uni um studying for for teachers training college. Yeah. Very slow learners. Um
01:24:30
but we take it. But you can't lead a horse to water and force it to drink. We're ready when we're ready. Right.
01:24:35
Like everything else in the world when when it's time it's time. And and you
01:24:39
know, so I was at teachers training college and uh and this girl broke up with me. I actually nickname her red
01:24:45
flags because everything about her was a red flag. She was crazy but [ __ ] hot.
01:24:51
She even got her tits done while we were together. Oh, they were great tits. Um that she was wonderful but also
01:24:56
terrible. Like terrible. Like horrendous. She was still seeing her ex that she slept with um while she was
01:25:05
married. She was still seeing her ex-husband, but she was still married to him. She was still Oh, there was
01:25:10
horrible things. Anyway, so eventually we broke up, which was probably the best thing for me after two years of of oh,
01:25:17
just terrible times. Um, and I saw a therapist. I thought, I'm feeling low. And I realized that because one day I
01:25:26
was cleaning my car and cleaning out the garage so that when I died, everything would be nice and ready. Uh, and I
01:25:36
thought this is not where I want to be. And I'm I'm thinking seriously about
01:25:40
something I don't want to be thinking about. I'm I'm point five away from zero
01:25:45
and I don't want to reach zero. So I went to I went to therapy that was uh I
01:25:50
was late 30s and um uh I saw a guy and and and chatted with him cuz I didn't
01:25:57
want to see a girl cuz I knew I'd just try and hit on her. So I sort of guy and
01:26:01
and then I could see him as a father figure and as a friend and as a mate and and open up and share and I I did and
01:26:10
and he said after after the first session he said everything you're doing is what I would tell you. You're reading
01:26:16
books, you're writing down in your diary how you feel at the beginning of the day
01:26:19
and the end of the day. You're writing down your thoughts through the day. He
01:26:23
said I almost can't share anything differently with you. I could tell you maybe another couple of books that you
01:26:29
could read. But he said, "Everything you're doing is on a daily. You're not
01:26:32
thinking about next week, next month, next year. You're not trying to make massive plans. You're just, can I get
01:26:37
through today? And if I can get through today, good. And then tomorrow I wake up and can I
01:26:44
get through today?" And then making it through so that the days are better. One of the things, one of my
01:26:52
takeaways from that was reflection. and reflecting on specifics of good things and those good things, those good
01:27:01
nuggets, even one was enough to say that was a good day. And then I moved forward. I only saw him, I think, six
01:27:09
times. Uh, and that was enough to, okay, I'm not cleaning my car now. Just gives you gives you different tools
01:27:17
and different ways of framing things. Um, but yeah, what you're talking about
01:27:20
there, it just sounds like practicing gratitude. Yeah. Um, and when you Yeah. I I found when you start doing that,
01:27:27
when you start like taking a mental stock take of all the things you've got to be grateful for, it becomes easier to
01:27:31
find them. And little things that you might just do on autopilot, like go and buy a $6 coffee and drink it without
01:27:36
even thinking about it while you're scrolling on your phone. If you actually
01:27:39
spend a moment to be mindful about it, you actually really enjoy it. But you um yes, therapy is helpful, but that came
01:27:46
much later. So um yeah, you lose the ability to walk at 16. You're a brat for
01:27:52
many years afterwards. Then there's the suicide attempt and then that's a major
01:27:56
life life or attitude pivot. Yeah. So, so how did how did that look? How did you how did you realize you needed to do
01:28:02
a full 180? Well, where did you begin? It was beginning by coming back to life and knowing what I was doing was
01:28:12
wrong. You you what's that uh idiom? The analogy of um do the same things expect
01:28:17
a different result, you know. Yeah. It's the definition of madness. Yeah. Absolutely. So, I knew what I had done
01:28:24
wasn't working because it had led me to that path, that that point in my life,
01:28:28
and I knew enough to know that I just don't want to do that again. So, it was I need to do something
01:28:35
different. What that different was, how it looked, that was so far away. I didn't know. And again, I'm sure there's
01:28:44
so many people have these great analogies of doing this and doing that and I I did this and I planned that and
01:28:48
I had this year ahead and I'm just like I'm a simple man. I can barely think of
01:28:53
tomorrow let next year and then I'm doing the habits six stars, you know, because now I I I plan and no matter how
01:29:00
sad I get, no matter what's happening in my daily life, well, I've planned this,
01:29:05
I can't not do that. Or well, I haven't got any debt, so you know, I'm not that
01:29:10
bad, but then I haven't got a house. But then I haven't got any debt. I haven't
01:29:13
got this and but I have got that and like you said being being gracious and looking back and thankful for different
01:29:20
areas of my life of things I do have. I mean thanks for reminding me I haven't
01:29:24
got a partner Dom but you know whatever. Oh yeah. Yeah. Let's let's talk about
01:29:28
that. So the um the dating Oh thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm single. Cheers. Cheers. Yeah. Hopefully uh well I mean
01:29:35
after this podcast comes out maybe there'll be some people sliding in you. Ladies, where's the cameras? Yeah.
01:29:40
Single. That came up. Yeah, that one. Single and ready to mingle. No, that sounds terrible. Um, so yeah. So,
01:29:47
navigating uh dating and relationships when you had Had you had a proper girlfriend pre-ac,
01:29:54
proper girlfriend. I'd had sex twice. Uh, that was it. Uh, I remember riding
01:30:02
home on my push bike actually after the first time I had sex uh in the treeut at
01:30:05
One Tree Hill and uh funny you should ask and uh riding home thinking wanking was way better than sex. It's got to get
01:30:12
better and then like but I've had sex. Um I'm sure I'm sure your partner was
01:30:18
thinking much the same thing like No, no, no. That was that was a random girl I met on the bus. She wasn't my partner.
01:30:22
She was random. Yeah. Yeah. But good times. I smell like strawberry jam. Anyway, uh it was uh the girl I was kind
01:30:30
of seeing at the time. Uh when I broke my back, I broke up with her. I was an angry little [ __ ] And because I was in
01:30:38
hospital again, I was in my own way. I thought she wouldn't want to date somebody in a chair. Um I got angry at
01:30:46
her, yelled at her and said, "Whatever." And and either made her I can't remember
01:30:50
the exact way it turned out. either made her break up with me or um I I broke it
01:30:56
off with her in a very angry way that I that's it done. Like not even friends.
01:31:02
Um and she was a really nice girl. Really nice girl. Um very sad. Very sad. And again that was that was me and
01:31:10
several relationships I had after being in a chair. Um angry Lee, what a dick. I' I'd look back at me and think, you
01:31:19
know, some of those girls would have been wonderful wives. They would have been great mothers. They would have been
01:31:25
my best friends for the rest of my life. And yet, I was a dick. I I cheated on a
01:31:29
couple of girls. Quite to be quite frank and honest, a couple of them cheated on
01:31:33
me. Um, I was in a terrible place. And sometimes the relationships just fell apart because I wanted something
01:31:41
different. And so I just broke up with them and then went a different way and then saw somebody else and went with
01:31:47
somebody else. And then I I look back and think there's at least five women I
01:31:51
could say quite comfortably would have been the best for me now and and would have been the best for me from then to
01:31:59
now. Um marriage um even if we didn't have kids. Um, but I would have gone in
01:32:06
a completely different direction. I'd be a different person. Yeah. Hindsight. Hindsight's a funny
01:32:11
thing. You have to be ready though. Like, yeah. You You had to grow into the person you are now. Yeah. Um, and
01:32:17
everything. So, you've never been married. Uh, no. I I I think I've been
01:32:22
engaged three times if you can count if you can count a burger ring. Uh, because
01:32:27
I hadn't actually got a real ring. Uh, yeah, that one was doomed. That was doomed. But the last one was really
01:32:33
nice. like I got a a friend's house and you know I had uh Bruno Mars playing you
01:32:39
know getting married and it was really nice and gave her a ring. I had had roses on the ground all this nice stuff.
01:32:45
Uh and then two months later she rings rings me up and says yeah no it's not
01:32:49
working. Keeps the ring and [ __ ] off. And I'm like you [ __ ] Anyway, that
01:32:55
took me three years to actually get over that. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up as well. Sorry. Anyway, no, it's
01:33:01
it's relationships and they happen and and I could have either have have jumped
01:33:05
onto the next one and not learned anything or took a step back like I did um and and start reassessing my my
01:33:14
values. What do I want? Where do I want to go? And and from then that's when
01:33:18
I've started to do a bunch of things for myself, keep myself happy, keep myself
01:33:22
active, and eventually something will come up. Someone Yeah. Well, I mean, the right person
01:33:28
will come along when the when the time's right. What What about um Yeah. And tell
01:33:33
me to piss off if you don't want to answer this, but in terms of um sexual activity when you were when you're
01:33:38
disabled in the way you are, 600 now is a lot to pay, but you know, you get what
01:33:42
you get. Yeah. Does everything like does everything function normally or do you have signs or Yeah. Look, if you could
01:33:49
just uh everyone's different um much like um sexual preferences, you know. Um and I
01:33:59
won't go into naming a few of them, but um that's that's very different as well.
01:34:05
Um mine is again with with the touching and the feeling. I'm very touchy feely.
01:34:12
I I enjoy physical contact. I enjoy kissing. I enjoy hugging. I enjoy all the things that make a relationship a
01:34:19
relationship. Um there are other guys that I know and girls who don't like all
01:34:26
of the things that I like. They like different things. There's a story of one
01:34:29
guy I know who um couldn't really get arousal with his partner uh until they tried things that they
01:34:36
weren't doing prior to him breaking his neck. M uh so she started dressing up
01:34:41
and it actually helped their sexual relationship actually helped their relationship as well. Um cuz you got to
01:34:47
remember the two sides to the relationship. There's the the physical the sexual side as well as the normal
01:34:54
everyday friendship side. And you've got to have a very strong I believe you've
01:34:58
got to have a very strong friendship to allow for everything else to to blossom and continue on as well. But for me
01:35:06
personally, yeah, it's it's hard. It was harder at the beginning because I felt I
01:35:11
was different. And again, me getting in the way of me when I got out of the way,
01:35:16
that stopped being a problem. I don't know if the girls had a problem with it,
01:35:21
but no one ever told me, but I thought it was a serious problem. There's so many good insights here. Um
01:35:30
the the main one is not not, and it's a recurring theme, is just not to get in
01:35:33
the way of yourself. Um, you do some keynote speaking and stuff. Is this one of the sort of like key messages that
01:35:39
you try and drive home? This is a keynote speak right here and you're all paying. It's a TED talk. It's a Dom
01:35:45
talk. Um, yeah, it's it it varies. Yeah, it varies because again, it's having
01:35:53
like comedy, it's having the edges for somebody to grasp onto. And if the the
01:35:57
theme is cars, then I would angle a lot of what I talked about to be about cars or the direction of cars or how I've had
01:36:04
over 100 cars or because I have um or something that's going to give them those edges. If it was about
01:36:11
relationships, I would form most of it to be about the relationship. So, but you've done public speaking as well, so
01:36:16
you know that. Okay. Well, for anyone that's like facing their own massive adversity like right now listening to
01:36:22
this, whatever that may be, like what sort of advice could you offer? What would you say the the most simplest
01:36:27
thing? Um I mean obviously that that take home of of you know get out of your own way. Um but just say yes to stuff.
01:36:36
Saying yes to things and even before you know what it is, you know, obviously positive, not you know,
01:36:43
take this. Um but you know, you got to look at the consequences and if they're
01:36:48
going to be positive consequences and yeah, it's going to be a challenge. It's
01:36:51
going to be hard, but it's going to be good. and and the outcome is going to be
01:36:55
something great. And then you got a cool story. Remember that time I set fire in
01:36:58
my hand? No. Um you you remember that time you you did London Marathon and you were told
01:37:05
off and told you couldn't do the squirrel set and you flew the other side of the world and they dropped you and
01:37:09
you did did this and it makes a great story. No great story ever started with where everything went perfectly and I
01:37:15
had a salad. No, it was hey I had a beer. Hold my beer. I'm going to do and and then a great story unfolds. Yeah.
01:37:21
Yeah, it's like we were talking about earlier like if you if you if you want
01:37:25
to be a partyier and you just go to parties every weekend, there will be the occasional standout moment, but
01:37:29
generally the weekends will roll into one. Um but if you do these like pinnacle events like you're doing and
01:37:34
these fun out of the box things, it just makes life more interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
01:37:39
If you could um speak to the Lee War of 1989 um just after the accident, what words of encouragement would you share
01:37:47
with him? He wouldn't listen. He's a dick. Dick to [ __ ] off. He would. [ __ ]
01:37:52
off, old man. Yeah. Yeah. What the [ __ ] do you know? Cuz he wouldn't want to
01:37:54
know anything about me. I could wear a shirt saying all the things I've done.
01:37:57
So, [ __ ] his shirt. [ __ ] off. Um Yeah. It's It's tough cuz I I would have to befriend me first. Uh
01:38:07
and it wouldn't be what I would say to the young me. It would be what he saw. M
01:38:13
he would he would have to see the things that he wanted to be to then want to do
01:38:19
the things that I do to be him, not not to be me. Um I remember a guy I I actually did look at in the spine unit
01:38:29
and wanted to be like um he had this terrible mullet with with, you know, blonded hair. Oh, it was it looking back
01:38:36
at it was horrendous. But I wanted to be who he was, not him. He had the cool XW Falcon. He had um it was called the
01:38:46
[ __ ] posy, you know. It had the sticker on the back. Terrible. Has an age. Oh, I
01:38:51
know. Neither is his mullet. Um but he was what it would he didn't care about
01:38:56
people what they saw, what they thought about him. He didn't care about how he
01:39:01
dressed. He was he was him. So I wanted to be him. But this is also 16-year-old me. And when you go back to the the 80s,
01:39:08
that's that that's coolness. Um, he was the John Bonjovi um, for lack of a better term. Uh, and I I I would
01:39:17
have to almost be that guy for for younger 1990 Lee to to to listen to me. And even then, I don't think he'd listen
01:39:26
very well. Oh, how long was it before you started um, dreaming as your as your actual
01:39:34
state? Oh, yeah. So, I heard that's weird. I read a podcast about this and apparently um it can take some people
01:39:41
years, but when you start dreaming dreaming yourself as you are, that's when you've finally accepted it. It It's
01:39:48
funny you say because even now I still can dream I'm in a chair and dream I'm
01:39:54
walking. Dreaming I'm flying, dreaming I'm naked. Got all those kind of cool
01:39:58
dreams. Um appropriately naked. Um yeah, just roll around your chair with your wing hanging. Yeah. Yeah. Woo. No,
01:40:06
not that. No more leather things and and sober. Yeah. I don't know. It's a dream.
01:40:10
Um and a lot of the dreams nowadays um are where I'm in a chair but I can walk but
01:40:20
it's really hard. And it sounds so dumb. It's like it's a dream. I can literally
01:40:24
do whatever I want. And I know that because sometimes it's a it's a lucid
01:40:28
dream and I can change the dream and do things in the dream and yet still I can walk but it's hard. So, it's
01:40:36
not I just walk or I'm just in a chair. Um I in fact I can't remember a dream
01:40:42
where I was just in a chair. Uh I I probably have um but yeah, most of the the the dreams though I
01:40:50
remember and especially even even later ones uh dreaming and walking is hard. So
01:40:54
I'll get up to do something but it's oh it's really tough to walk over there and
01:40:58
then come back and yeah continue on. It's interesting. Eh so interesting. Do
01:41:03
you do you hold like a a a space even like a tiny space in in your heart that during your lifetime like some medical
01:41:10
advancements or technological advancements would come along that would allow you to walk again? Yeah. So I was
01:41:15
involved with this company called Rex Bionics and um unfortunately they they've shut down now um but amazing
01:41:23
group of people that started this robotic exoskeleton. Uh, and I was lucky enough, I think it was about eight years
01:41:29
ago, pardon me, eight, nine years ago, I was in an 8th century castle in Biona, Spain, walking in an exoskeleton using a
01:41:40
skull cap that took my messages of trying to walk and sent them Bluetooth to a computer that analog digitized and
01:41:47
then sent a signal to the exoskeleton to walk. I mean, how cool is that? Um, my god, that's the future. Yeah, I mean
01:41:55
it's like um the wrong trousers like all over the place Wallace and Grommet. Um
01:42:01
but it's some people really hold their breath for it. I'm more of a Christopher
01:42:07
Reeve believer where hey look, I'll help a situation. I'll do whatever it takes
01:42:12
to to help the progression. Do I want an injection where there's a 50/50 chance
01:42:18
of me getting worse or walking again? No. Do I do it 8020? No. 9010? Yeah. Hey, you're getting close. Because do I
01:42:25
want to be worse? No, I don't want to be worse. I've come to terms with who I am,
01:42:30
where I am, and what I'm doing that I don't want to be worse than than where
01:42:33
I'm at. And there's other people who, when I say holding their breath, they're
01:42:38
not sitting there literally waiting for their doing things like 30 $40,000 stem cell research um advancement injections
01:42:47
every month or two or six or whatever. And it's a lot of money. It's a lot of
01:42:52
effort, a lot of rehab, but that's their their journey. That that's cool. If it
01:42:58
helps them come to terms and it helps them get where they're going and maybe
01:43:01
they're walking in, that's fantastic. Would they have done it without the
01:43:04
injections? I don't know. But for them, there's no way they would have worked
01:43:08
without it and it's done and it's fantastic. For me, I just I did try that
01:43:13
earlier on, but then I didn't give it 100%. I went as far as to somebody saying, "Well, you know, you're not
01:43:19
going to be a functional walker in these um these legs." I said, "What do you
01:43:23
mean?" And they're like, "Well, look at how long it takes you to get a few
01:43:25
steps. Um yeah, you you've done great balance and in a very short space of time, you've done XY Z." Um they said,
01:43:32
"But you've got to put these on. You've got to get in and out of the car. You're
01:43:35
not going to walk around the supermarket with them. Why are you doing this?" And
01:43:38
I was like, "That's it. Done. I'm out then. Drop the mic. I'm I'm because it's
01:43:43
the why. It's the goal. It's the the reason. It's the to what end. And that's
01:43:48
what I do all the time now is like coming here with you. I'm like, "This is
01:43:51
going to be fantastic. It's going to be fun." Um I'm just content. I'm not
01:43:55
talent. But but it's it's got to be entertaining and I'm going to get something out of it
01:44:00
as much as you are. And and hopefully people watching, listening, whatever, are going to get something as well. And
01:44:08
that's why I'm doing it. It's It's not a personal goal. I'm not getting paid
01:44:12
much. It's only a couple hundred dollars, isn't it, to be here? Is it? Oh, hey guys, can we wrap up a business
01:44:19
card for Lee? He wants payment. That guy. Um, so it's it's about others.
01:44:25
Yeah. Well, sorry if this has been less fun than what you hope for. I I found it
01:44:29
really inspiring. Um, and interesting and informative and I've got a lot out
01:44:33
of it. I'm sure a lot of other people will too, but in terms of lols, I don't
01:44:36
know. It's probably been on the the lighter side than what you imagined. is I again the prep that I did for the show
01:44:43
was incredible. Uh well, you did ask me when we when we were DMing, you said, "Oh, what do I need to prep?" And I'm
01:44:48
like, "You just just turn up. I'll do I'll do the heavy lifting." So, I'm I'm
01:44:52
totally drunk and it's made it a lot easier. You know, drunk on the way here.
01:44:56
I was quickly I've got to skull this. You know, you're driving. Um no, you you
01:45:00
have you've done all the prep. You've done all the questions and it's been
01:45:03
phenomenally easy. Thank you so much. What is you've made a few um alcohol junks. What's your relationship like
01:45:08
with alcohol these days? Oh, these days is is fantastic. It never used to be. Um
01:45:13
again, people through the um B of education, I learned that a lot of learning goes on with parrots, you know,
01:45:21
and children are parrots. They learn through watching and listening, not what you teach them. They're not cats and
01:45:27
dogs. They're parrots. And they they say things at the most inappropriate time
01:45:32
that you've said ages ago. and and and they know it's inappropriate and they're
01:45:36
just like like a tree falls down and it's been cut down and this this four-year-old says, "Oh, fuck." You
01:45:42
know, and it's like it's actually perfectly appropriate, but it's also not
01:45:47
appropriate. Um, and that's what I've learned is that um through through what
01:45:53
I can I can do and and teaching and learning and and taking away, if I can take something away and somebody else
01:45:58
can have a take away, then that's fantastic. M uh coming coming here that the the the drinking jokes, you know,
01:46:05
jokes aside, my father was an alcoholic. He was a drug user and um that helped me
01:46:11
to a degree get involved in drugs very early on. Um and abuse them as well. Um but then that also helped me move
01:46:21
through that to the other end. And I I drink on occasion now. In fact, last year I can probably count on it was my
01:46:29
hands, fingers, fingers, and toes how many times I touched alcohol in the whole year, right? Because unless
01:46:34
there's a celebration, like you say, that party every weekend, unless there's
01:46:38
a celebration or reason, why why would I do it? You I've got alcohol at home in
01:46:43
the cupboard and I think, God, as a 16-year-old, that wouldn't last a weekend. Um, but it's it's sat there for
01:46:48
ages because there's just not a good enough reason. And if there's a good
01:46:52
enough reason, I I'll touch it and I'll drink it. Yeah. If you're drinking 20
01:46:55
times a year, then yeah, it's not even not even a thing in your life. No. No.
01:46:59
But I make jokes because because I can. Yeah. Um if it offends people, I again I'm absolutely sorry about that and I'm
01:47:06
sorry about lots of things I say and do. Um but I don't do it to offend people. I
01:47:11
say it because it it doesn't hold me. It doesn't hold a place in my heart that it
01:47:15
it tears me up inside. Even talking about suicide, the only reason why I don't bring up some things is because it
01:47:21
does for somebody else. and it does hold a place for somebody else and it does hurt them when they hear about it and I
01:47:28
I wouldn't want to do that on purpose for somebody else. I reckon that's a good place to Is there
01:47:36
anything that that's been unsaid? Anything that you hoped that we'd talk
01:47:40
about today that we haven't? Wow. No, cuz I wasn't allowed to do any prep.
01:47:45
Uh, no. We we've actually touched on on many areas. Um, I I do want to talk to
01:47:52
you later about bookw writing though because I really want to get my book out of the way. Um, I really want to write a
01:47:57
book cuz your your book was fantastic. Oh, thank you. I really I really want to write a book. It's been on my mind for
01:48:03
so long and I'm super lazy so I haven't done it. I've done like 30 pages and
01:48:07
then I just kind of like and then don't do anything. Well, hopefully mentioning
01:48:12
it now in this podcast is sort of like manifesting in a way and maybe one of the publishers will hear it or and think
01:48:18
this guy's got a good story. Can I get a ghost writer? If there's a ghost writer
01:48:22
out there, in fact, just someone who can write it. Can I just send stuff? I I would um I would ghost Gh ghost writers
01:48:28
are [ __ ] great. Like they'll sit down with you for like 10 hours. They'll get
01:48:30
your story and then they'll write it. Um but then you'll read the manuscript and
01:48:34
they do a fantastic job, but you'll be like I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't
01:48:37
phrase it that way. I think you've got such a such a big voice yourself. It would be an injustice for anyone else to
01:48:44
write your story. Thank you. Thank you. I have read a lot of um biographies, autobiographies or um yeah and those
01:48:50
abouts and some of them yeah read terrible don't they? you read them and you're just like, "Oh, this is painful
01:48:56
to read." And then others um I'm not, you know, barking up to Richard Branson's tree or anything, but um has
01:49:02
very easy to read. And there's been a couple of others. Um I got a friend Dave
01:49:06
Mack who's in a chair and he's like, you know, um what's his uh uh it's all about
01:49:11
the jazz. Um his fantastic book. Um and it's very easy to read. It's story
01:49:16
lines, it's chronological order, it also backtracks a little. And they're easy to
01:49:21
read. And that's what I want mine to be. Have you thought of a name? Oh, yeah.
01:49:25
Yeah. I thought Yeah. You got to have a title first, right? Yeah. Uh, push yourself. I thought it would be funny.
01:49:31
Oh, I love that. I thought it would be funny. That's good. Um, there's a quote
01:49:34
I wanted to end with. Uh, this is from you. I don't know what a bucket list is.
01:49:39
Just get stuff done when you get a chance. Keep believing. Keep moving. Keep achieving. You got this. Wow. Thank
01:49:46
you. You proud of yourself? Thank you. I I am. Thanks, Dom. That's A really cool quote. Yeah. Hope there's
01:49:54
a lot of people that have heard this today that feel lazy or you know a slight sense of shame about how little
01:49:59
they've done with with their life. That's mean. No, it's terrible. No, but
01:50:04
just if it can be I mean if it can be used as fuel to do more and realize [ __ ] you know, like the saying from
01:50:09
Shaw Shank Redemption, get busy living or get busy dying stuff. Absolutely. Absolutely. And everyone's Everest looks
01:50:15
different. Um, yeah, somebody might might listen to this and be like, "Oh, I
01:50:19
have to go run a marathon." It's like, doesn't have to be a marathon. It
01:50:22
doesn't even have to be a 5K. It can be run to the shops. It can be a walk to
01:50:26
the shops if you don't normally do it. It's just just get up as you say. I love
01:50:30
that. Shame. I can't think of what seven hells of [ __ ] you had to crawl through
01:50:34
to get. No one looks at a man's shoes. But get busy dying or get busy living.
01:50:39
That's It's that simple. But you love a movie quote, don't you? I so do. Don't
01:50:43
get me started. Yeah. Don't get me started. Argyle had it best, wasn't it?
01:50:48
Welcome to the party, pal. It's a Christmas movie. It's a Christmas movie.
01:50:52
Oh, die hard. And Lee War, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. You're a great human. Thank you so much,
01:50:57
Dom. Really appreciate it. Thank you.