00:00:10
I played boys cricket growing up till I was 18. Now my mom had cancer and then it came back again when I was about 18
00:00:16
and then my dad lost his parents within about 6 months of each other and I was young but I seemed to observe a lot and
00:00:24
and notice those things and dad was like you probably won't make it. I made my
00:00:29
debut for the White Fins in 2016, which did not think at all that was going to happen.
00:00:33
>> So, you make the New Zealand team when you were 16, >> went to England and ended up playing
00:00:37
every single game over there. >> 232 runs not out. Just [ __ ] insane. So, I've got Susie Bates, now I've got
00:00:43
you, Meie Ker. >> I know. What a downgrade. >> Mey Kerr, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:49
>> Dom, thanks for having me. Good to be here, >> mate. We've been trying to I I went back
00:00:53
through my DMs on Instagram. We've been bouncing backwards and forwards for the
00:00:57
best part of a year trying to figure figure out how to do this. And >> I know it's been it's been a it's been a
00:01:03
bit of a mission to get this this podcast going, but finally >> finally >> and in the mount of all places.
00:01:09
>> It's wonderful. So you're here for a training camp at the moment with the New
00:01:12
Zealand team. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Here till Tuesday. Tuesday night. Um yeah, we go to South Africa soon. So
00:01:19
training camp with everyone which be which has been nice. you are all over the place. I I was in the UK last month.
00:01:26
I did a podcast there with uh your friend Susie Bates who you told me just off mic before is maybe the best New
00:01:33
Zealand cricketer of all time. >> Yeah, she goes down as probably the goat
00:01:37
um in New Zealand women's cricket. So yeah, her record's outstanding and she's
00:01:42
she's seen in New Zealand as um one of the best cricketers we've ever had.
00:01:46
>> Amazing. So I've got Susie Bates now. I've got you Millie Ker. >> I know. What a downgrade.
00:01:51
I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that at all. And there's um there's so much
00:01:55
to um discuss with you cuz you're such an intriguing person. There's the
00:01:59
cricket and then there's the the whole other stuff as well. Um cuz you've just
00:02:03
been very open and vulnerable and transparent about your mental health struggles. So, first of all, um how are
00:02:10
you today? You good? You bad? You neutral? >> Yeah, I'm good, actually. Um going good.
00:02:16
You know, it comes in waves and and whatnot. And I think, you know, it's been awesome to kind of create that
00:02:22
treading water series and speak about my story and share other people's stories.
00:02:28
Um, I kind of thought like after that, you've spoken about, I guess, your worst
00:02:33
times and then people assume you're all good, but I just wanted to be honest and
00:02:39
open about how I was feeling. Um, and it's not that I'm all good now. Well,
00:02:44
I'm in a great place now, but you know, there's still bad days. There's still
00:02:49
times where I kind of do struggle. Um, but I guess that's human and and that's
00:02:55
kind of part of it. Like depression, it doesn't necessarily just go away. You
00:03:00
kind of learn strategies and coping mechanism cop coping mechanisms and um yeah, but I think since my experiences,
00:03:09
I've just appreciate life so much more. or I have a better understanding of myself. So, not that I ever want to feel
00:03:16
that way again. I'm grateful um that I have been through what I've been through
00:03:21
and had that support network around me. >> Yeah, we we'll get into that later on in
00:03:25
the podcast and um in as much or as little detail as as what you want. Um but yeah, I I I can relate to a lot of
00:03:33
it. I was thinking about on the drive down today. And actually, this is something I got from um the podcast I
00:03:37
did with um another good friend of yours, uh Sophie Divine. Um with my own mental health struggles, like I think
00:03:45
it's given me so much. Like it's made me a more empathetic person. Um it's made
00:03:50
me more understanding of other people. So even though it's it's [ __ ] [ __ ] to
00:03:54
go through that stuff, um there are like pluses that you can see from it, right?
00:03:58
>> Yeah, definitely. Like it's cruel. Like depression's cruel. M >> um but it does give you perspective when
00:04:06
you kind of come out the other side and you do learn a lot. I've always been a
00:04:10
real empath empath. So, uh ever since I was young, so I've always kind of taken
00:04:17
on or felt other people's emotions and being quite sensitive growing up. But
00:04:21
yeah, it definitely it definitely does it does help you. It's kind of what they
00:04:26
say, you know, it makes you stronger, I guess. Um it's like any setback it's you
00:04:30
know how you can move forward from that. >> Yeah. It's funny though like how how it
00:04:35
just doesn't discriminate. You know like your your sister who you're very close
00:04:38
with and she's in the mongoo with you at the moment. So she had um a condition
00:04:43
called Bell's py when she was young. She's got diagnosed with diabetes as
00:04:47
well. So on paper you'd think she's the one that should have you know mental
00:04:51
health issues. >> Yeah. >> But it's just not how it works. >> No it's not how it works. And it's crazy
00:04:56
how powerful your brain is. Um, it's ridiculous and it doesn't discriminate.
00:05:01
And I think that's the thing, like I always say, just be kind to people because people have stories and you have
00:05:08
no idea what's going on in their life or in their head. And you know, if you can
00:05:13
just be kind cuz you don't know what could set someone off. >> Yeah. You know, 10 10 years ago, if um
00:05:19
if someone said to me, "What do you want to be?" Uh, or if someone told me I was
00:05:23
kind, I I'd like bristle at at the word. I [ __ ] hated it. I didn't didn't I
00:05:28
didn't want to be seen as being like kind. I just wanted to be like a savage
00:05:31
or funny or something. Um, now I'd take it as the the biggest compliment. >> So, I I agree. You never know what what
00:05:38
like what what path the pe people are on or what journey people are going through. So, I think a little kindness
00:05:43
goes a long way, eh? >> Yeah. It's always time for the the savage joke with your close mates are
00:05:48
there. 100% kind. You know, if you're kind, you can give that joke to your mate.
00:05:53
>> Yeah, for sure. Okay, we'll we'll um we'll park that to one side for a second
00:05:57
and we'll get back to some we'll do some fun stuff and then we'll get back to
00:06:00
that later on. So, first of all, um go back to um a very very young mele. What What are your what are your earliest
00:06:08
memories? >> Yeah. Um my childhood. I It's funny. I think I had like I loved my childhood.
00:06:16
It was just we were outside all the time playing sport, big family. Um, so kind of like my cousins, some of my cousins
00:06:24
live with with us growing up and my uncle and auntie and so it was always a full house. Um, and yeah, just really
00:06:32
active and lots of friends, lots of family. So love growing up. I Yeah, I was always quite a chilled out
00:06:41
kid as well and always looked out for other people as well. And I think a lot of that I reckon stem from when I was
00:06:48
young. My mom had breast cancer and I used to go every day um to the hospital with her when she was going through
00:06:54
chemo. >> So how old were you like three? Threeish. >> Yeah, about three. Um
00:06:59
>> what do you what can you remember much about that? That's very young. Did you
00:07:02
know what was going on or you just traping around with your mom? >> No idea really. Um what was going on?
00:07:07
But I think speaking to people and from things there's probably like I think
00:07:12
that's where my empathy came from as well. seeing my mom. My mom wrote letters I guess throughout that time.
00:07:18
And um she always apparently I always said um when I started school even at five or yeah 5 years old I said oh my
00:07:26
mom's still sick cuz she's got short hair. So I just assume short hair means
00:07:31
you're sick. Um but >> so cute. >> And then like yeah Jess growing up Jess
00:07:38
was quite independent like >> So what's the age gap with you two? two and three years almost three years.
00:07:44
Okay. >> Um but yeah, like I remember J's first day of school, she was sweet as like get
00:07:49
me in there. I remember my first day of school, I'm looking out the window as my
00:07:53
mom's leaving like crying and just and I think I just didn't want to leave my
00:07:57
mom's side. And I think part of that too is because >> like a nurturing thing.
00:08:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Every day I kind of saw her sick growing up and um but yeah, I love
00:08:10
my childhood. Um but I was always really sensitive and aware of struggles around
00:08:17
us. Um >> what like >> I think just everyday type of struggles but um I guess Jess growing up it was
00:08:28
like she did running and she was so passionate about it and and really good at it but you know she had bowels pausy
00:08:35
when she was young. >> Yeah. So what does what does that mean exactly? So half her face was paralyzed.
00:08:41
Um she was basically like a mini stroke in her face and >> you know she couldn't drink out of a
00:08:47
cup. She needed a straw. She like couldn't close her eye um for a while. She sleep in a little eye patch and um
00:08:55
yeah so she had that and then she had type 1 diabetes. um you know my mom had cancer and then it came back again when
00:09:03
I was about 18 and then my dad lost his parents um within about 6 months of each
00:09:10
other. Um then my auntie my auntie got quite sick um and with and mental health problems and was an alcoholic. Um so
00:09:24
um yeah there was all of that happening and I was young but I seemed to observe a lot and and notice notice those
00:09:32
things. Um and you know I just carried on doing what I love playing sport with my
00:09:37
friends but I was always quite hyper aware. Um and then I went kind of went to college and suicide seemed to be a
00:09:45
common common theme around me. like my my boyfriend at college, his dad had committed suicide.
00:09:52
>> Not while we were together, but um I was kind of one of the first p people he
00:09:57
opened up to about that and he actually only found out at a young age. And then I had a boy in my class
00:10:06
um who were in the same class for 5 years, wasn't my best mate or anything, but um he had committed suicide as well
00:10:14
in year 13. And that >> it was just it felt like it became a normal word in my world. And then um in
00:10:25
2020, my best one of my best mates, Dan Foy, who was on Treading Water, um which
00:10:31
was extremely brave of him to want to be a part of it, his younger brother had committed suicide. And yeah, it just
00:10:39
became normal. And I think because I'm such a deep thinker and I'm an empath,
00:10:45
>> it just I just wasn't I just was in this world and I just think I saw a lot happening
00:10:54
around me. >> It's funny. Yeah, cuz I suppose you could there's two ways of sort of
00:10:58
looking at it when you're exposed to I suppose that much um suicide like on on
00:11:04
the one perspective you could go okay well you know this this is a it's it's a
00:11:08
way out and it's a it's it's an option that we've all got open to us that we
00:11:11
can explore if things get really bad but then on the flip side of that you can go
00:11:16
um >> like you realize um for the for the person that's taking their own life
00:11:21
their pain stops but but it doesn't go away it gets transferred to everyone around them like the the ripple effect
00:11:26
of anyone, you know, people that obviously feel there's the world's going
00:11:30
to be better place without them, but the the impact it leaves and the hole it leaves, it's just the magnitude is
00:11:35
massive, eh? >> Yeah. It's even the whole community like >> it's even the people that don't know the
00:11:40
person, it just affects a community. >> Um, and yeah, it's it's so sad. Like
00:11:46
it's >> Oh, it is. It's it's one of the saddest things imaginable. Yeah.
00:11:51
>> So that's um so that's young Amelia Kur and then um so cricket was cricket was
00:11:56
always part of your life. So your parents but were both pretty good >> cricketers. Yeah. So both my parents
00:12:00
played for Wellington. Dad played indoor cricket for New Zealand. He captain them. And then my papa played for the
00:12:07
Black Caps. Um >> and >> Yeah, that's right. On on your mom's
00:12:11
side. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So our mom's my mom's side's big. like
00:12:16
all the cousins are close and we just grew up in the backyard. I played with uh my cousins and and then mates so I
00:12:24
played boys cricket growing up till I was 18. Um so yeah >> I like in boys teams.
00:12:31
>> Yeah. Yeah. And loved it. >> Yeah. As I I mean she she's um quite a
00:12:35
bit older than you but um another girl from Tower Sophie Divine had her on the podcast and she had the same sort of
00:12:40
experience. Did you um Yeah. What sort of negativity or backlash can you recall from that? like playing boys teams like
00:12:46
was there anything like a >> I had um I had none. I think because I'd played boys cricket since I was 5 years
00:12:53
old through to 18 you kind of played the same guys throughout. So it's almost
00:12:59
just like you were you were one of them. >> Um you know I captained uh the boys
00:13:05
teams I played in when we got older as well. So yeah it was just normal. It was it was my normal and it was actually the
00:13:13
normal as well. It was more when we like went up north to Hastings cricket camp and you'd play teams, boys teams that
00:13:20
had never played against a girl and they like this is weird and try sledge you and whatnot. What age?
00:13:28
>> About 12. Can you can you recall what sledging they come out with at 12?
00:13:34
>> That's not good sledging. It's like mate grow up. So you're just ah you're hopeless but no
00:13:45
it was it was good fun. So yeah big family big group of family friends really close still close with them all
00:13:51
today. Yeah. >> Um yeah active active lifestyle >> and then is did you show like sort of
00:13:58
promise or talent as a young player or >> I think so. Yeah I yeah I so I play I
00:14:05
played a lot of sports growing up. um cricket, football, athletics and cross country and then like intermediate
00:14:11
played a little bit of basketball and rugby sevens and and whatnot, but cricket was kind of always the passion
00:14:18
and what I wanted to do. But it wasn't until I had watched the White Fins play
00:14:22
on TV and I was like, that's what I want to be. And that was about at 9 years
00:14:28
old. And then I remember um I wasn't scoring heaps of runs on Saturdays and I'm I'm a perfectionist and I I
00:14:40
Yeah. So that's also a little bit of probably like mental health stuff is I had to be a certain way for everyone
00:14:46
else. I had to be perfect. Everything I had to do do had to be perfect for everyone around me. Everyone expected me
00:14:52
to be this certain way. But to a degree it has helped my training. >> Um, >> like I'm I'm the same. It's [ __ ]
00:15:01
exhausting. E, it's annoying. >> It can get tiring. >> But yeah, in some ways I think Well,
00:15:05
it's a it's a superpower in a way. >> Yeah, it can help you. >> But it's exhausting.
00:15:10
>> Yeah. And >> are you like that with everything or is it like can you I know you've got into
00:15:15
We'll get into your resilience plan and your mental health strategy, but I've
00:15:18
read you're into photography now and playing the guitar. Can you do things just for fun and not have to be good at
00:15:24
them? >> I can do things for fun and and not have to be good at them, but if I'm
00:15:31
like if I'm going to do something, I want to do it well. >> So, but I know I'm not going to be I'm
00:15:37
not going to be the best at everything, but like if we're doing something and
00:15:40
there's a challenge, I want to win. So, so >> you're a punish. So there's there's
00:15:47
there's somewhat there's somewhat of I can just go and out and enjoy myself,
00:15:51
but I do like doing things well. Um but yeah, I remember when I was young, I wasn't scoring runs um on a on a
00:15:59
Saturday and I was like to my dad like why why am I not scoring runs? I'm not
00:16:05
that good. And then I I think it came from my parents like they both work really hard and I thought if you want to
00:16:11
be good at anything in life, you have to work hard for it. So then I saw that game when I was nine watching the White
00:16:17
Ferns was like right I need to go to the Nets before school and team trainings aren't enough. So a bit at about 9 or 10
00:16:27
dad and I would go to the local nets uh before primary school started and I'd
00:16:32
bat with him and pretend I was a white fern batting with Sophie and Suzie and then I'd bowl pretending I was bowling
00:16:39
at you know the Aussie women's team that I play against now. I've got goosebumps
00:16:42
hearing the story. Like your your friends and teammates with them now. The fact that you are that age and they're
00:16:48
still playing and they had an impact on you as a nine-year-old girl. It's >> bonkers.
00:16:52
>> It is. And it's funny like I remember um with dad we'd like do a scenario and
00:16:58
play play like it was a game and I'd get him to commentate and then like if I got
00:17:03
a 50 I'd raise my bat but as soon as cars drove past or if there was someone
00:17:07
out someone else in the nets I'd walk up to dad and be like don't COMMENTATE
00:17:15
>> your poor dad. >> I know I was like we got to be quiet while there's other people here not
00:17:20
raising my bat today. But I just visualized like I was batting in front of a full crowd, you know.
00:17:27
>> It was funny, man. >> Well, how um I'm I'm just curious. So So
00:17:31
you're 22 now. >> Yeah. >> So >> So it was 13 years ago that you were
00:17:36
nine and you were watching the White F how how were you watching the White Fence on TV? Was it even televised?
00:17:41
>> It was like there was one game that was televised that I watched. Um, and I'd
00:17:46
been to a couple home matches, >> so I'd seen a handful of games, but I
00:17:50
knew the players. >> Um, because I'd watched the Wellington Blaze play as well, so they'd played
00:17:56
like, you know, I'd see Sophie play and then they play Otago, see Susie play.
00:18:00
But yeah, that's I guess how I knew, but it was there was one game on TV that I
00:18:04
remember vividly. It's so cool that you've um you've got these memories and
00:18:09
these role models that are that are now your friends because it's I mean it would have been just as easy or even
00:18:15
it's easier for your role models to be like I don't know like Martin Guptal or
00:18:20
Kane Williamson or you know whoever was big in the men's game at the time. >> Yeah, there was definitely men's players
00:18:25
too I looked up to. But yeah, I was fortunate that I got those one or two games I watched on TV to have those role
00:18:35
models. Um, which now, you know, it's televised more, so you can have those role models, but I probably only got to
00:18:41
watch because I come from a cricketing family and my dad would have known that they were playing on TV. Otherwise,
00:18:47
>> yeah, you know, >> you'd have no idea. >> Yeah. So if I mean if you're around long
00:18:51
enough there's every likelihood that there's going to be some 9-year-old kid
00:18:54
now that's at the nets with her dad dad commentating maybe >> being you. Yeah, and that's the cool
00:19:02
thing and I think that's now like when you're signing kids stuff after games
00:19:06
and whatnot, it's taking the time. Um, but also when you chat to them and they
00:19:12
tell you they love cricket and whatnot, you say, "Oh, I'll be playing with you
00:19:16
in 5 10 years time and their face just like lights up." >> But that's, you know, that
00:19:22
>> I was at the Nets and saw Sophie and Susie and they said that that's what
00:19:26
happened to me as a dream come true. >> That's amazing. And then and then you um
00:19:31
you play rep cricket for Wellington when you're what like 13 or 14? >> Yeah, 14. 14.
00:19:36
>> That's crazy. >> Yeah, I looked pretty small then. >> That is that is nuts. So So it's What
00:19:43
was the average age of the team? They all women. >> Yeah. Yeah. I was the youngest by a wee
00:19:48
while. Um yeah, probably range from 14 to 30 odd. >> Right. So, who So, who do you talk to in
00:19:55
the team? Do they do they all feel like aunties or >> um I was so shy, so nervous. Not nervous
00:20:03
to play, but nervous to be around people that what am I going to talk to them about? So, I
00:20:12
>> Well, I think that's a very reasonable fear as well. Like, what have you got in
00:20:15
common? Absolutely nothing apart from cricket. >> Yeah. So, I actually found probably that
00:20:20
first year quite hard. I love the onfield stuff. Um the onfield stuff was awesome because I just wanted to play
00:20:27
cricket and loved it. But yeah, it was hard because I just felt like I was nervous and shy. I had a really nice
00:20:37
roommate um Alex Evans who doesn't play anymore but she was older um an older
00:20:44
one in the team and she just took like took me in looked after me like I was a kid so
00:20:52
>> how old was she at the time? >> She would have been >> late 20s.
00:20:55
>> Yeah, mid late 20s. So, and she just took me in and looked after me. And
00:21:00
>> yeah, I always remembered that as I kind of thought that's what I want to be like
00:21:06
when I'm older and young. There's a young girl coming into the team cuz it's
00:21:10
scary. >> Yeah. But you weren't you weren't scared or anxious or nervous about the onfield
00:21:15
stuff? You were fine with that? >> Yeah, fine with that. I >> Isn't that funny?
00:21:19
>> Yeah. I um >> there's a there's a saying that um youth is wasted on the young.
00:21:23
>> Yeah. >> It's like you just have no sort of fear, do you? No fear. But I think even now I
00:21:28
don't really get nervous at all playing cricket. Um you know there's moments
00:21:32
where you get a little bit nervous but I've always been very calm and I just
00:21:38
love it so much. And I think because I love it that you know there's nothing
00:21:42
else I'd rather be doing. So I'm just playing the game I love and if I prepare
00:21:47
well I trust that. So I've never really got nervous and it's just about going
00:21:52
out and enjoying myself. But yeah, there's definitely moments that you do get nervous too.
00:21:58
>> And and so that age when you're when you're 14 and you're playing in the uh
00:22:02
the Wellington rep team, if you have a like a bad innings and I don't know if
00:22:06
you ever got a duck or anything, but how did you cope with that emotionally? You
00:22:10
sort of Susie B told me a story like she she'd go to the toilets and have a little cry afterwards. She
00:22:16
>> still does she does she >> on a bad bad day. It's very rare now.
00:22:21
It's very rare. She won't like me saying that. Um, I have been very lucky with
00:22:27
the family I've grown up up in and like sport is amazing. It teaches you so many
00:22:32
lessons I think. Um, but I think I've learned a lot of that through my family.
00:22:36
And I remember when I was young, my dad said to me, if I turn up to the ground and you're walking off the field and I
00:22:44
haven't watched a single ball, I don't want to know if you've got a duck or a
00:22:47
hundred. So that's kind of been my thing. like if I get out, yes, I wish I'm still batting and whatnot, but I
00:22:54
can't change it. So, that's kind of my thing, like if I can keep my body body
00:23:00
language good, go back, sit back with the team, and then pro I'll process it
00:23:04
later. Um, and whatnot. But, yeah, I think that was a great message from my dad that it was like, yeah, duck or 100,
00:23:12
I don't want to know. And I think with cricket being such a fickle game, like
00:23:16
if you get too high on the good stuff and too low on the bad stuff, it's going
00:23:20
to be a bloody tough sport because >> Yeah. >> You know, there's so many variables.
00:23:24
>> Yeah. And you're going to ride the highs and lows, aren't you? >> Yeah. I think like through my career,
00:23:30
I've been quite lucky in that I think that messaging, but I've been very level
00:23:36
throughout my cricketing career. And it's a little bit like perspective. I think like at the end of the day it is
00:23:42
just a game but I get you put so much work into it like when it when it doesn't come off it it's tough when the
00:23:49
team loses it's tough but it is trying to be as level as possible and um but
00:23:55
yeah I think there's tough moments and you know world cups have been tough I
00:23:59
think for our group and that's probably where the lows hit uh most of the time
00:24:04
is we've underperformed and as a team and that's that's been tough but yeah I
00:24:09
think staying level in sport, >> but like the um where things are at now, especially with all these like sort of
00:24:16
short short stint competitions that you do. Like you've just recently been in
00:24:20
the UK for this one, what's it called? The 100. >> Yeah, >> it's 100 balls.
00:24:24
>> Yeah. 100 balls. >> So, you get paid a lot of money to be part of this franchise for a very short
00:24:28
tournament. Um do you feel guilty if you don't play well? >> It's a good question. I guess that's
00:24:35
like some somewhat and the you do want to play well. It's like they have picked
00:24:42
me and they're paying me to perform. So, but I guess also it's like in >> it's the sport though, isn't it?
00:24:48
>> It's the sport and it's a job like >> you know if you're bad at your job you
00:24:53
could get fired and it's the same for us. Um the only thing is with sport like
00:24:58
the margins and the you can see it right in front of you. the numbers are right there so you know when you've had a bad
00:25:05
day, you know when you've had a good day. >> But >> yeah, there's no hiding, is there?
00:25:10
>> There's Yeah, there's no hiding. But I guess like for me, every time I play
00:25:15
batting, bowling, fielding, I just want to contribute. I want to do the best I can in all three. And that's that's the
00:25:21
thing. And I think I'm lucky too as an allrounder. Um that, you know, if I fail
00:25:26
batting, I can still make a difference for the team with my bowling or in the or in the field. Um, and then the things
00:25:33
that people don't see is the impact you can have off the field. Um, which in
00:25:38
those leagues I think is extremely valuable when you're bringing people in, when you're bringing leaders in from
00:25:44
around the world. You can have a real impact on the group also. >> Yeah. And as so you make the New Zealand
00:25:50
team when you were 16. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] Can you remember that? >> But were you in was it a surprise or
00:25:57
were you sort of on the Yeah. Yeah. Was there like quite a bit of heat around you at the time? Were you in the
00:26:02
selectors, you know, like radar or frame of reference? >> Yeah, I think it was well was a real
00:26:09
surprise to me. Um, I had I reckon a year before that. So there was a world cup I made my debut in 2016 and then
00:26:18
there was a 50 over world cup in England in 2017 and about the year before I made
00:26:23
the white ferns I had a I didn't have a coffee but I had a coffee with my dad
00:26:29
and um we spoke about the white ferns and about that world cup and I was like that
00:26:35
would be cool to play in that and dad was like you probably won't make it. So
00:26:40
you were 15 at the >> Yeah, 15. He's like, "It'd be very unlikely
00:26:45
for you to make it, but you might get picked like he's like, "But you could if
00:26:49
you go really well, you could get picked as the 15th player and they take you for
00:26:53
like >> just sort of bleed you future tournament >> for the future." Yeah.
00:26:57
>> And then I made my debut for the White Fins in 2016, which did not think at all
00:27:03
that was going to happen. uh played in played in that series against Pakistan at home and then went to Aussie. We
00:27:11
played Aussie and then we played Aussie at home in a Rose Bowl and I played all those games. Um and then they had picked
00:27:19
the World Cup team, got in that went to England and ended up playing every single game over there. So, it was
00:27:27
amazing how like two years before that, it was kind of like uh there's a 10%
00:27:32
chance you'll get picked as that 15th member in the squad to going to playing
00:27:37
every game. And I just Yeah, I just I got that opportunity when I was 16 and yeah, I think again I had people that
00:27:47
backed me and that always helps. >> Like who? I guess well my family but the
00:27:53
coach to pick me at 16 and play me >> and the people in the team as well like
00:28:00
I felt like they weren't like oh you shouldn't be here piss off kid >> like they weren't like
00:28:07
>> who's got your daughter on >> yeah we're not babysitting >> so
00:28:15
>> take your ticked off somewhere else >> yeah I just you know when you um might
00:28:21
enter a job or an environment and you feel like you have to prove yourself first and I definitely have felt that in
00:28:29
my career but I felt like >> I feel like anyone anyone in a sort of team environment a high performance team
00:28:35
environments probably has to do that every step of the way right >> yeah you feel like you prove yourself
00:28:40
>> but yeah sometimes you can put too much pressure on yourself and it doesn't get
00:28:43
the best out of you some people it gets the best out of them but >> yeah I just I was really backed And
00:28:49
Susie was captain at the time and she just she trusted me cuz I for a young cricket I thought about the game. I
00:28:56
loved it. I tactically thought about the game. Um so I was quite confident in knowing what I wanted to do and what
00:29:04
type of player I was at that time. Um and yeah, she just trusted me and I loved training. So I competed hard and
00:29:14
when I was in the nets too with the White Ferns like for me I wanted to play. So I was like, I got to give
00:29:20
everything in training like you got to be again the best you can be to make sure you get on that park. Um, and it
00:29:29
was kind of like, yeah, just the mentality I had probably from a young age to just not much fazed me with not
00:29:36
getting nervous and whatnot. And I just wanted to be out there. I I wanted to be
00:29:40
that person in those moments. It was like me at the Nets with my dad commentating and I'd go to school and
00:29:47
would do creative writing and I'd talk about hitting the winning runs in a World Cup final and and all of that. It
00:29:53
was just like I dreamt it. >> Yeah, it's almost like visualizing it or
00:29:57
manifesting it or something. >> Yeah, it is kind of like manifesting and Yeah, it is.
00:30:03
>> Yeah. And vis vis vis well I can't speak >> visualization. Yes, that's the word.
00:30:08
>> Yeah. Um >> it's crazy. And so, and it was around this time, so I think when you were 17,
00:30:12
you were playing um Ireland and you got 232 232 runs not out, >> which is [ __ ] insane. But I've seen
00:30:20
video footage of that. It looks like it's on like a school field or something.
00:30:23
>> It was on a club ground, >> right? There's houses in the background.
00:30:27
>> Houses in the back. It's just that old Irish Irish kind of kind of ground. It
00:30:32
was a cool little ground, but yeah, it's amazing now where we're playing from
00:30:36
where it where it's come. But yeah. >> Yeah, it is. It's it's remarkable.
00:30:40
>> Like so that's like 5 years ago and um so it's such a short passage of time but
00:30:46
so much has changed. >> Yeah. Ridiculous amount. >> Yeah. Like the footage I've seen looks
00:30:50
like it's recorded on someone's handicam phone or something. >> I think it was.
00:30:54
>> So >> So what what are your rec recollections of that? Was it just a just a day or a
00:30:59
game where just everything went right? You're in that flow state? What happened?
00:31:03
>> I think so. So I wasn't It's like people like what are you thinking about? Well,
00:31:08
I wasn't thinking. And I think that sometimes when you're in your best form
00:31:13
as a batter and in cricket, you just are so your mind's so clear. Um, but yeah, I
00:31:21
started my career as a bowler, but I always batted growing up and always have been pretty technically technically good
00:31:28
and it was kind of a strength thing with batting and um yeah, I got the opportunity to open the batting that
00:31:34
game and I didn't bat much for New Zealand. Um, so I just wanted to kind of make the most of it and I've been
00:31:41
working really hard on my betting and yeah, it just, you know, had a bit of luck along the way, but things just kind
00:31:48
of fell into place and it was just playing, I guess, a strength strength-based approach, playing my
00:31:54
game, but not premeditating, not overthinking. And yeah, it's everyone asks about it and I don't really know
00:32:02
what to say ever, but I think it was just I loved batting and I wasn't a batter at that point in my career.
00:32:10
>> Um, and I wasn't after that either, but I just wanted to make the most of that
00:32:15
opportunity. >> Yeah. 232 not out. It's insane. It's crazy, eh? >> Yeah. I mean,
00:32:20
>> you you look back now, you're still in the in the early stages of your career,
00:32:24
but you're an established player. Like you you look back now and what do you
00:32:27
think? Like you're a you're a kid basically. E >> yeah. I mean I haven't thought about it
00:32:32
too much but yeah when you think when as you get older and you think about it I was 17
00:32:38
>> still in school and >> yeah but it was yeah crazy day really. And
00:32:44
>> and and you Oh and so the team went out to celebrate afterwards and you you
00:32:48
couldn't even go to the go to the bar? >> Yeah we all so they all had a drink in
00:32:51
we all we all had a drink in the bar afterwards. Um, >> what do you like like a raspberry and
00:32:56
lemonade? >> Yeah, the classic raspberry and coke. Um, but yeah, so the we had a team drink
00:33:02
in the bar. I was allowed in the bar because someone could just say they're my parents. Um, so yeah, it was nice.
00:33:09
Like the team celebrated it. They had a drink for me and then, you know, Love Island was on. So had to get back for
00:33:15
that because that was the show everyone was watching. >> Oh, was it was that the season with um
00:33:19
Tommy and Molly? >> Yeah, it probably was, actually. Still going strong. >> Wow. And then did life change much after
00:33:25
that? I mean that's when you first came onto my radar cuz I I read about it but
00:33:29
in in reflection now I mean it it would have been a 30 secondond piece on the news. Not the lead story
00:33:35
>> like if if Bowden Barrett had a hamstring injury it would have been ahead of that in the sports news that
00:33:41
night probably. >> Yeah. >> And a lot again a lot's changed in the
00:33:44
five years since then. But yeah. Did much change for you? >> I guess. Yeah. Well, nothing changed,
00:33:52
but you know, there was media interviews. I was annoyed because the like the next
00:33:58
day because I was a teenager while I was sleeping in and tired after that day. And then the media manager like, "So,
00:34:05
Breakfast TV want to talk to you. Can you get up at 6 a.m." And I So, yeah, there was there was more, I
00:34:17
guess, media around it. Um, even today, every now and then, you still get asked about it. So, it definitely you just get
00:34:25
asked about it and there was a lot of media at the time, >> but I didn't really see it or anything
00:34:31
cuz I was over in Ireland. Um, which I think was good just to not be there to, you know, to hear that hear that stuff.
00:34:40
Um, >> and I don't go on social media too much ever and look at um >> not getting high on your own supply.
00:34:48
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, yeah. I mean, if because Yeah. It's a it's a double-edged sword, isn't
00:34:52
it? So, if you if you if you're going to do that and stuff Yeah. 100%. You got to
00:34:56
take the good with the bad. >> Yeah. But, no, it it didn't change anything, but I guess, you know, to a
00:35:02
degree it gave me somewhat a little bit of confidence that I have a method that I can score runs. But at that time, you
00:35:10
know, Ireland were a weaker weaker team in the world and I wanted to be able to do I wanted to be able to score runs
00:35:16
against the big nations and and and the big countries and um so then almost after that it became quite tough because
00:35:25
I wasn't an established batter at all. I had won good innings or one or two good
00:35:29
innings and then I kind of got moved around the order. Um, you know, I'd bat
00:35:36
six and then I'd fail and I'd be back down at nine and then three games later
00:35:40
I'd be up at six again and I was just like, I need to score runs every time I
00:35:46
back to state to keep my spot there. So, I was getting picked as a bowler regardless. But for me, I wanted to be
00:35:52
picked as an allrounder. And so then I was like, no one thinks I'm good enough,
00:35:57
but I want to bat so badly. And it wasn't until I probably trusted my game and had um well Bob Carter was amazing
00:36:07
for my batting and >> who's he? He was the uh last White Fern's coach and he came in and he
00:36:13
batted me three and >> that's probably where I had like a breakout um series against India
00:36:21
>> and that just gave me a lot of confidence that I'm good enough to be in
00:36:25
this position and I'm good enough to be in this role and he gave me a lot of
00:36:29
confidence that you know he backed me he was like you're good enough to be here
00:36:33
so I think that really helped um so it's almost like I had that score, but then I
00:36:39
still felt like I had to keep proving myself every time I batted. >> Yeah. It's funny that, eh, that's how it
00:36:47
is. It's not like, "Yeah, I'm done now. This is it. I'm set." Yeah. Every I
00:36:51
suppose every time you go out there, you got to keep proving something. You got something to prove every [ __ ] time.
00:36:55
>> Yeah. >> It's exhausting. >> Yeah, it can get >> But how good Yeah, but you you didn't
00:37:01
I'll bring it up since you haven't in that game. You got five wickets as well.
00:37:04
>> So, 232 runs not out in five wickets. I don't care how weak you say the Irish
00:37:09
team is, it's still a phenomenal game. >> Yeah, I mean it's never going to happen
00:37:13
for me again in my career. Um but yeah, I was absolutely knackered after the batting innings. Uh I'm not I don't hit
00:37:21
sixes like Sophie. Um so there's a bit more running going on in my innings. So,
00:37:26
I done a fair few KS and uh had we sleep between innings and then fielded that first slip and got through the power
00:37:35
play and Susie goes merely warm up and my body I'm knackered and then I w like
00:37:43
I had to bowl I was like Susie really and then yeah got five wickets. Um, >> amazing.
00:37:51
>> Just hit tried to hit the stumps. But yeah, it's just >> And going back to school after that,
00:37:56
what was that like? >> Did you have to have to make a speech at the school assembly or anything? Did did
00:38:00
no one really care or did Yeah. Was it a big deal? >> I think my my principal loves sport. So,
00:38:07
um, but yeah, my friends at my school friends that weren't in sport knew nothing about cricket. So, it's quite
00:38:14
nice. So you come home and they have no idea or like they'd see and they'll be
00:38:18
like that's cool. >> Yeah. >> Cricket's Yeah. It's quite a polarizing
00:38:23
sport. Like I I really love cricket but I I can't think of many of my girl mates
00:38:26
that have any interest at all. >> Yeah. So it was quite nice for me. Like I just went back to school and was a
00:38:33
teenager again like I was just a kid and yeah I didn't like being asked about
00:38:40
cricket from my school friends as well. I just wanted to be a kid. >> Yeah.
00:38:45
>> Um, and that was important, you know, like you'd get mentioned in school
00:38:49
assemblies and stuff and >> and all of that, but I had this thing growing up, too, which is funny. It's I
00:38:55
think it's a little bit like that New Zealand tall poppy syndrome, but >> you know, I'd get a principal's award or
00:39:03
go up for something at prize giving and I just would go up straight face and look real like sad or angry because I
00:39:10
thought if you smiled you looked arrogant. So, so you'd get like an award and shake
00:39:17
their hand and you just be like nothing. It's it's almost like the thing
00:39:22
your dad told you like I don't want to know if you won an award or lost an award
00:39:25
>> or not. I'm just like dead pan but it's almost looks like I'm annoyed to get you
00:39:30
know so but it's funny that I just thought you know like if you smile or whatnot it then you look happy to
00:39:40
receive it and then you're arrogant >> which is actually not the case but when
00:39:46
I was about 12 that's what I thought. Yeah, that's so cute. That's funny. And
00:39:51
then when when did your sister make um the team? She's older than you, but she's she's not I get the feeling she's
00:39:57
not as passionate about cricket as what you are. She she was like a 3,000 meter runner for a while.
00:40:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. She loved her. >> Distance to run. I love running. It's
00:40:04
terrible distance. >> Yeah, she did that and uh 1500 m. Um but yeah, so she loved her running and then
00:40:11
she's had injuries with her calves. Uh she played cricket growing up, took a
00:40:16
break um from it. Didn't really like cricket. Um yeah, got bored as most people. That's
00:40:23
why they give up. You got to if if you're going to play cricket, you've got
00:40:27
to love fielding. That's the key. But yeah, so she then started playing for Wellington again or got in the
00:40:33
Wellington squad when she was about 17, 18, but she always stayed in the game through playing indoor cricket. Um, and
00:40:42
she had a couple really good years with Wellington. And 2020 made a White Fern's
00:40:47
debut. So, she would have been about 23, >> right? >> Just turned 23, I think. Um, she's been
00:40:54
amazing for this group. Like, >> has she? How so? um she just has a point of difference in
00:41:00
women's cricket and swing bowling's been so effective and we haven't had an in
00:41:05
swinger for a while and she's just come in and done really well with the new
00:41:10
ball and um I think she doesn't quite know how good she is actually. Um, but yeah, it's
00:41:19
awesome to see Jess loving it and and playing sport again because, you know, it's tough for her not being able to
00:41:26
run. Um, and it's great having family on tour. We are like best mates, her and I. So,
00:41:34
>> yeah. >> Well, did did she was she really good at the running? Was she Did she really love
00:41:37
it? >> She loved it. >> Do you know what? Do you know you know how there's people that don't know
00:41:41
anything about cricket? I don't know if you know this, but what was her time?
00:41:44
What was her time? like 1500,500. This one is about 12. She did a 454 or 456. >> Wow.
00:41:53
>> And I'm pretty sure she held a Wellington record for a 3K for like school um like Wellington region.
00:42:00
>> She did like a 10 something. >> No way. >> [ __ ] that's insane.
00:42:05
>> She was moving >> at like 12. >> Uh 3K she would have been a bit older,
00:42:09
>> right? Wow. And it's such an uncomfortable distance to run. Like you
00:42:13
just your lungs are burning from lap number one. >> Yeah. So yeah. >> Awful. She's in a much better place now.
00:42:19
>> I know. Sport with everyone. You don't need to go blow your lungs every day.
00:42:26
>> And um so the IPL you played um in um India this year for the the Mumbai
00:42:32
Indians. Um how do you feel about that? The money side of things with everyone knowing you know your [ __ ]
00:42:39
>> Yeah. I mean it's a whole another world over there. Um >> cuz you you got sold for 192,000.
00:42:46
>> Yeah, 190 I think. >> Do you if you don't want to talk about the money side of things cuz it can can
00:42:50
be a bit crashed. That's totally cool. But I' I'd be curious like how like how
00:42:55
much of that money do you actually see? >> Yeah, that's like cuz it all all now
00:42:59
with these contracts your money is comes out and it's in the thing. I think for
00:43:05
me like I leading into that auction I was thinking oh it's could be tough if
00:43:12
you get sold for a lot of money because everyone's going to see it and I just
00:43:18
think for me as like a 22year-old I grew up in Tower and went to Tower College is quite a diverse school um and
00:43:28
you've got mates as well it's like I kind of you almost like feel guilty in a
00:43:34
way. >> Yeah. Like success success guilt in a way. >> Yeah. Which is
00:43:38
>> and like there's >> maybe part of that stems from and I mean this is all internally from your side
00:43:43
but it's maybe it's tied up with that tall poppy thing a bit as well. >> Yeah. And there's like players that have
00:43:48
played before you that didn't play for much. But I mean you got to look at it
00:43:52
as an it's an amazing opportunity now for women's cricket. Young girls seeing
00:43:58
um seeing that like you can make a real career out of this. And you know if you're
00:44:02
>> that's incredible. It's not something to be embarrassed about. It's [ __ ]
00:44:04
awesome. >> Yeah. So, like obviously you'd rather it not be shown to the media. Um,
00:44:10
>> but it's still kind of badass in a way. It's amazing. >> Yeah. But people see that and they're
00:44:15
like, "Shit, she's getting 190K, but you lose about 40% of it." So,
00:44:21
>> yeah. So, it's 40% to say tax. >> And then you got an agent to pay or like
00:44:26
to does someone get 15% 20% or >> Yeah. for I don't have a agent that takes my cricket contracts. They'll take
00:44:35
money from >> deals they get me. >> Oh, okay. >> Um >> Oh, how good. Okay. So, after tax,
00:44:42
you're still looking at like 100k or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> [ __ ] That's amazing.
00:44:45
>> Oh, it's still great, isn't it? But >> that's incredible. So, are your parents
00:44:48
still uh teachers? >> Um, no. So, all my aunties and uncles are. Um my mom is actually with the New
00:44:59
Zealand Players Association. So she works on basically life outside of cricket with some of the men's domestic
00:45:07
teams. Uh wellbeing like P PD type of stuff. Um and my dad he he's the director of Cricket Wellington uh
00:45:19
when I was about 10. My parents actually bought Kelly Sports to New Zealand, >> which was like sport for young kids.
00:45:26
>> What is it? I've never heard of it. >> Um, this was ages ago, but uh, basically
00:45:32
just they run holiday programs, after school care, and they would go into primary schools and basically take PE
00:45:40
lessons, right, >> for schools. Cuz I think when my sister started school, mom and dad were shocked
00:45:45
at like how the basic >> skills of catching a ball and whatnot were just not there.
00:45:53
>> And there's this thing in Aussie, so they bought it to New Zealand. Um,
00:45:56
>> you you and your sister never had a chance with the >> Yeah. Do you know it's funny because
00:46:01
when Jess was young, she like as soon as she was walking, she had a ball in her hand and like loves sport and I was just
00:46:09
a real chiller. Like I was just sit there and like line up cars in a perfect order, like a little bit OCD and just
00:46:17
had no interest. And my parents like, "Oh yeah, Millie had no interest. She
00:46:21
got into sport quite late." I was like 5 years old. >> She got into it late,
00:46:28
>> probably a normal age. >> So um so so like the Indian money, what
00:46:32
have you done with that? Have you bought a house or anything or >> Yeah. You have? Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:36
>> [ __ ] that is so cool. So you So you bought your first house at 22. >> Yeah.
00:46:41
>> Insane. >> Yeah. So no, it's pretty cool. And I'm lucky again. Family. Um my dad's pretty
00:46:49
pretty wise, pretty smart. So um yeah, he's helped me a lot. I think I had my
00:46:54
first White Fins contract at 16 and that just got paid into my dad's account. So
00:47:01
and and just saved really. Um lucky I trust my dad cuz he could have just run away with it all.
00:47:08
You could you could do Yeah, maybe once you get your career, you be like, "Where's all the money?"
00:47:12
>> Yeah, we should go >> one of those things. >> But yeah, no, it's um it's cool and I
00:47:18
guess it allows you one to I guess do the things you love um and and live a good lifestyle, but also be able to give
00:47:27
back as well to people that have helped you along the way and and do projects that you're passionate about as well.
00:47:35
>> Yeah, for sure. um like water. So, it's >> it's cool. And I think with that, it's
00:47:41
like it obviously allows you to do what you love. It allows me to do my job full-time.
00:47:46
>> Um >> and and that's going to help me get the best out of myself.
00:47:51
>> Yeah. And I feel like by the time you get to the end of your curriculum
00:47:53
career, you'll be so um set up and financially secure that you won't be driven by money anymore. So, if you want
00:48:00
to go back and be a teachers's aid where you you're you know you're dealing with
00:48:04
kids with behavioral issues or something which is something you've done before,
00:48:07
you'll be able to do that and it won't even be about the money. It'll just be
00:48:09
about you doing what sparks joy for you. >> Yeah. Which is really cool. That's what
00:48:14
you want to do. Like you want to love the work you do and you want to be passionate about it. So, if I can do
00:48:19
that in the future, whatever that is, that's that's that's what you want to
00:48:22
do. And you know, money's never been a driver for me. Um, but it's just about
00:48:28
>> Give me some of it then. >> It's a driver for me. I'll take some of
00:48:32
your So, um, so what's I've never been to India. What's it like? Is it [ __ ]
00:48:36
insane? >> Yeah. >> It's very, very different to that game we were talking about before where you,
00:48:40
you know, you're playing Ireland and there's no one watching. >> No one there. Yeah. Full stadiums, 50 to
00:48:45
80,000 people. >> Um, and they love cricket. >> So, yeah. Obsessed with it.
00:48:51
>> Yeah. It's a religion. is your um I I checked I did some research on
00:48:56
Instagram. Your sister's got about say 15,000 followers. You're on like quarter
00:48:59
of a million. Did did that just explode this year with the IPL thing? Was it mainly
00:49:05
>> definitely did um when I went over to India in like a exhibition match matches
00:49:10
for the IPL in 2019. So that's kind of when it went up because previously to
00:49:16
then I had been private as well like cuz I was like I'm still a kid. I just want
00:49:21
like my Instagram to be nothing about cricket because I'm me. I'm not a cricketer.
00:49:29
>> Um and then yeah went to India and it and it went up and they just love cricket. But I guess now
00:49:36
too there's more profile in New Zealand. It's becoming bigger >> in New Zealand and in Australia. I think
00:49:42
I've been playing for Brisbane since 2019 and like Aussie as well and and there. So it it goes up. Yeah. India is
00:49:50
next level just yeah they have they hire people to throw you balls at the nets like they're not
00:49:58
even the coaches they just hire them to come throw you balls >> wow >> so it's just
00:50:04
>> yeah next next level >> that's crazy >> yeah went to the house who basically
00:50:11
sponsor our own our team 24tory house didn't see it all >> 24tory house
00:50:18
>> yeah 24tory stories. >> They got they got Creed 3 for us before it was out and we watched it in their
00:50:25
movie cinema. >> What floor was that on the house? >> Second floor. Now
00:50:30
>> had a popcorn machine like they were just Yeah, they're actually very nice
00:50:35
and and down to earth and um they give a lot back. They obviously have too much money but they do a lot of
00:50:43
good with it which is cool. But yeah, next level. >> But it's quite like the contrast over
00:50:49
there, you know, you've got these mansions there and then you've got the
00:50:52
slums there. >> Yeah, it's it's crazy, isn't it? The justosition between the halves and the
00:50:57
have nots. Yeah, it's crazy. It's ridiculous. >> Um, so is your is your um DM's just full
00:51:03
of like Indian d Indian. >> I I haven't really looked at them, but I think you get a few like marriage
00:51:10
proposals and whatnot. So, um I haven't said yes to any yet. >> Oh, there's always time. There's always
00:51:18
>> there's always time, you know. You never know. >> Um and what about um are you
00:51:22
superstitious or you have any like pregame routines or any any like must dos or like processes?
00:51:28
>> Yeah, I used to be really superstitious when I was a kid. I've chilled out a
00:51:33
little bit now. Um I always put my left pad on first and my left left glove. I have the same like routine like batting
00:51:40
routine like two taps and whatnot. Um but that's about it really. >> Yeah, that's
00:51:47
>> So you're not an overinker? >> No, I'm not an overthinker of sport. I'm
00:51:52
an overthinker of life. >> Yeah, actually that's probably a good transition time. We'll get into that
00:51:56
now. So um yeah, July July 2020. That's when can you I don't know if you want
00:52:03
how like we can get into this in as as much or as little information as you want cuz I I mean dragging this [ __ ]
00:52:08
back up I know it's never never nice and never easy but what was what was going
00:52:12
on then July 2020. >> Yeah. 2020 um was when was it? So that's kind of when CO started,
00:52:22
didn't it? >> Pandemic time. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, so that's when my friend's
00:52:28
brother committed suicide that year. Um, and then obviously like the lock I loved
00:52:37
lockdown cuz I felt like the world stopped around me and I felt like we were like at peace. And I know it was
00:52:45
horrible for some people and I had a good household, but um I guess I keep busy and whatnot, but I
00:52:54
just felt like the world stopped and I could be I just felt safe. Like I found a safe place. Um, and I was still able
00:53:02
to do everything I love, like I could exercise. I'd hit balls with my dad outside and whatnot. Um, and then we
00:53:10
went over to Australia. So, we played Australia in a series over there and we were in full
00:53:19
lockdown mode. So 2 weeks like isolate isolation there but we could hang out in the as a team in the hotel and we could
00:53:27
go out once a day for training um to start and otherwise we were inside the hotel and then after that I then went to
00:53:38
Big Bash and all eight teams were in a hub. So like far out it was overwhelming so many people and I'm like I love
00:53:48
people. I'm a people person, but I also like need my own time too. Um, and so
00:53:56
basically I was in a bubble for 3 months and I just um really really struggled over there. um being away in this like
00:54:08
cuz cricket's never been for me like how I define myself and it's always been I've always had interests
00:54:16
outside of cricket and I like like I love cricket and when I'm there I'm
00:54:20
there but when I'm away from it I'm away from it and then I was living in this
00:54:25
bubble with eight teams squads of what 15 17 all in this one place cricket it was like you
00:54:34
couldn't escape And um that was really tough and I know a lot of people found it tough there. And
00:54:41
I think I had been struggling a lot before that as well just with I guess I around I think my values and what I
00:54:53
felt like I had to be and I had to be like that perfect person. I had to be there for everyone around me who was
00:55:00
struggling. um I couldn't take the time to look after myself because everyone's
00:55:06
else's needs were more important than mine. And then I came home from Australia and kind of just shifted what
00:55:14
was like important to me. I got into gratitude and and read a lot and journaled a lot and then was really good
00:55:25
over summer um when I when I came home from that and then in 2021 I kind of had a relapse or relapse but in 2020 I
00:55:38
remember going what I went through and I said I'm so glad I went through what I
00:55:42
went through. So, so you went through, sorry for interrupting, you you went through that and you didn't sort of tell
00:55:47
anyone or talk to anyone about that? >> No, I so I was I was seeing a psychologist in 2020 from about June.
00:55:54
>> Okay. >> And >> that's when you didn't even tell your
00:55:57
sister and she you on the road with Why >> didn't tell my mom or dad? I didn't want
00:56:01
anyone to know, >> right? But not not even did do you think in hindsight you wore a really good
00:56:07
mask? >> I think I did. I learned how to I learned how to do that. And I because my
00:56:13
thing was what I feel doesn't matter. It's about me making sure everyone else
00:56:20
around me is okay. And then, >> you know, I I can see parallels. Like I'm I'm exactly the same. I I I think I
00:56:28
I get some validation out of being the the the person that's got the answers or
00:56:32
Yeah. the person that can solve the problem. >> Yeah. It was just like >> it's mental though. Like it's dumb.
00:56:37
>> Yeah. It was like >> completely dumb. Yeah. And it was always like I don't
00:56:41
want to be as in seen as ungrateful. I have an amazing family and I do what I love and that's like all you can really
00:56:49
ask for in life. And >> so for me to be sad and feel the way I did, I was like that's so ungrateful.
00:56:55
People have it so much worse. >> Was it like an element of guilt in a way?
00:56:58
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so I >> But why didn't you tell tell your
00:57:02
sister? I'm I'm curious cuz I And it's there's no judgment involved. I'd be
00:57:07
exactly the same. If I was on a in a team with my brother, I probably wouldn't have told him when I was going
00:57:11
through [ __ ] as well. But but why not? >> I think I just thought I didn't want
00:57:16
anyone I didn't want anyone in my family to help me because I didn't want to bring
00:57:22
them into it and I didn't want them to worry and I didn't want protecting them
00:57:25
in a way. >> Yeah. I didn't want them to feel sad. I I was like this is me. It's not you guys
00:57:30
so you don't need to know about it. And then I think I remember this was like
00:57:35
just before going to Australia. I was around at um mom and dad's for dinner and mom was talking to me about
00:57:42
something and I I think she was like probably annoyed at me. Um me and my mom my mom get along well, but I probably
00:57:51
done something like I just not been myself and she was trying to check in on me. Yeah. Actually, I I um I read
00:57:58
somewhere on online uh apparently you changed how you were acting around home and you were even started avoiding home,
00:58:03
avoiding going back home. Is that around this time? >> Yes. Yeah. Around that time, 2020. So
00:58:08
>> So people So So your family sort of started to notice picked up on little
00:58:12
things like I >> What do you What were you just more You just weren't your usual jovial self or
00:58:18
>> Yeah, I was pretty quiet. Um, I would get up early, train, be out all day
00:58:26
training, then, you know, I'd get home, didn't want to be home cuz I didn't want
00:58:31
them I didn't want to have to fake how I was feeling for too long in front of my
00:58:36
family because faking is hard. That's tiring. >> That's tiring hiding hiding your
00:58:40
emotions. So then I'd go to the pool. I'd go to the sauna. >> Um, and it was also like I'm recovering
00:58:47
as well. And then I'd come home, have dinner, go to bed, repeat, and just do
00:58:51
that on repeat all day. And I guess in a way, my parents really thought Milliey's
00:58:56
always trained hard. She was always she's just training really hard rather than avoiding home. But I think they
00:59:03
started to see a change like you could also probably see a change physically um as well. You can see it in people's
00:59:11
faces sometimes. And >> yeah, mom tried to bring it up with me and I just broke down and I had a panic
00:59:18
attack and was kind of like you have no idea how I'm feeling right now. >> Yeah. What what does what do you mean a
00:59:24
panic attack? What does that look like? >> Just like the breathing, the hyperventilating, like you can't control
00:59:30
yourself. Like your whole body feels paralyzed. >> And that's what I experienced a lot of
00:59:36
over in Australia when I was there for those 3 months. Like sleeping was hard. Couldn't really sleep. And then yeah,
00:59:42
the panic attacks and the anxiety would just set me off. Some lyrics, songs, music set me off. And I would just Yeah,
00:59:53
like we had to go through this like custom like the back of the workers lift and you could only have like three
01:00:01
people in the lift at a time for the whole team. Took forever and you just be waiting in this place. And just the
01:00:07
anxiety too, like is depression and anxiety all at once and it just would overwhelm you and you have no idea why.
01:00:15
And I think that's the hardest thing when you have no idea why what's happening.
01:00:18
>> Yeah. Especially if you're doing all the right things like you know you're
01:00:21
keeping yourself physically fit. You're getting up in in the morning. You're
01:00:24
cracking on with the day. You you're you know practicing gratitude. You're doing
01:00:29
all the things that should you know elevate your mental health. >> Yeah. I remember writing once like um
01:00:34
you know all the mental health guides and all that stuff. It's like I see all
01:00:38
of that and I'm doing all of that but it will never be good enough. Like what I
01:00:42
do will never be good enough. And it was kind of like cuz I was trying I was doing everything and my mindset was like
01:00:48
what I do is just never good enough. >> Um so that was kind of 2020 I guess.
01:00:53
>> Yeah. So then um I guess so so you went through that um then you sort of came
01:00:58
right again. How can you remember how you came right or did you >> um I was talking to like a psychologist
01:01:06
weekly and and weekly while I was overseas as well and um I shifted a little bit of that
01:01:14
perspective of the not good enough the perfectionism I don't have to do everything
01:01:21
at my best standard or I don't have to be perfect like I don't expect my friends to like what I
01:01:30
expected from myself, I don't expect that from anyone else. >> So, it's trying to shift that how I talk
01:01:36
to others is the old like I need to talk to myself a little bit more like that. >> Is is your inner voice are you quite
01:01:43
hard on yourself? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh my god, I'm exactly the same. It's
01:01:49
terrible. E like the inner critic. It's terrible. It's like um I I I say to
01:01:54
people like I I would never the way I speak to myself sometimes. I would never accept that from another human being,
01:02:01
family member or otherwise. It's like I I I can be a bully to myself. >> Yeah. Actual bully. And it's gotten so
01:02:07
much better. I during that time I found running for me was so like I wouldn't
01:02:13
sleep at night and I just couldn't sleep and sleep and I'll go for a run and I
01:02:17
liked running at night cuz I felt faster. You know when you're running You do.
01:02:23
>> You're not. The G doesn't lie. >> Yeah. Still a 20 minute cage. But yeah,
01:02:28
>> so I'll just run, but I just get in this like I think too for a while like what I
01:02:35
felt was either so much pain or I'd feel numb. And so I found that with running
01:02:43
at night and and whatnot, going for runs, it was like I was feeling so much pain that the pain of running felt good
01:02:50
>> as in I could just cope with so much pain and but then if I felt numb, it was
01:02:57
like the pain of making myself go run at this time >> was like at least I felt something.
01:03:04
>> It's almost like a a a healthy form of um you know, you know, there's people
01:03:08
that self harm. >> Yeah. just so they feel something. That's almost like a healthy version of
01:03:13
that. >> Yeah. Kind of like running. Doing running for me was like that version for
01:03:18
me. But also my one of my first warning signs is eating. If I feel guilty after eating, I know I'm probably
01:03:28
going into a little bit of a bad phase. Need to check in on myself, look after my mental health. And those are probably
01:03:35
were my two my two warning signs are probably going for runs at night and and and eating.
01:03:42
>> Okay. All right. Good to know. So if anyone ever sees me care running at
01:03:46
night, >> eating while running. >> Yeah. >> There you go. >> Um and then um so was it 2021 that you
01:03:53
had um so like the the the relapse or incident, whatever you want to call it. This was even this was the real rock
01:04:00
bottom, right? >> Yeah. Rock bottom. got even worse. What What brought that on? What was the
01:04:04
catalyst of >> Yeah, I again like I've done a lot of writing that kind of
01:04:11
explains a lot into how I was feeling. Um and yeah, 2021 I got an I wasn't good
01:04:20
again. And I think it was still things from the past and I think it was actually things from
01:04:27
basically when I was 18 through to 21 that I'd never dealt with as well. like
01:04:33
what >> I think I never processed anything and when I was a kid um all those things I reckon that shaped
01:04:43
part of my identity and just seeing other people struggle as a kid and the suicide happening around me and um
01:04:54
I guess I had a different life as well to a normal teenager as well and I had to grow up
01:05:00
>> in terms of the cricket >> yeah to grow up I had to grow up quickly
01:05:03
Um but yeah in 2021 I then used cricket as my only place in the world where my mind
01:05:14
stopped. So like cricket was meditation, going to train was meditation because my
01:05:20
head finally stopped spinning. Like the voice in my head finally stopped and then
01:05:26
broke my finger >> and so that like place of safety for me had gone. Um I'd still run in gyms so I had that kind
01:05:38
of escape for me. Um, but yeah, I I lost my safety and I was also that perfectionism again. It was like, I want
01:05:48
to be the best I can be and if I'm injured, I can't be the best I can be.
01:05:53
I'm not going to get any better. I'm going to fall behind. All of that. Um,
01:05:58
>> someone else is going to take my spot. >> Yeah. It's like all those feelings of um
01:06:03
of that. But then I I was really in a really bad place struggling and um again didn't tell my family. It's funny
01:06:14
because you know throughout that time in 2020 once my family knew they helped me
01:06:20
so much >> but then again started seeing my psychologist again and didn't tell my
01:06:25
family. So I kind of went back into old habits of I've got to hide this. I can't
01:06:31
show anyone how I'm feeling. Um, >> would you if it if it happens again and
01:06:38
let's hope it doesn't, would you would you would you be more comfortable
01:06:42
speaking out, do you think, if it happened again or do you think you'd this is your default setting where
01:06:46
you're just going to, >> you know, you find it hard to speak until it's really [ __ ] bad?
01:06:51
>> I'd like to say I would um >> speak early. I actually I really
01:06:56
struggled in May this year and um I didn't tell anyone again but I did after
01:07:08
2 weeks of really struggling and I saw a psychologist a different one cuz my one
01:07:13
moved back to England which I was very sad about. Um, and I was like, "Oh, I've been feeling
01:07:21
like this for the last twoish 3 weeks >> and didn't kind of seek help or get help
01:07:28
till then." And I just kind of thought, well, before that, how I was feeling, I
01:07:33
was feeling like that for so long. And I thought, you know, I'm just feeling bad
01:07:37
at this time. It's going to pass. >> But actually feeling like how I was
01:07:41
feeling for 2 weeks, it's that's not normal. >> Yeah, it's a long time. But I guess from
01:07:47
my tolerance or from how I felt in the past, it was like months or >> you know. So yeah, it's it takes me a
01:07:57
while. I try process it myself. I try help myself before telling anyone. Um but at the end of the day, like I'm
01:08:06
advocating for people to speak up. I want people to be able to tell people and speak up, but sometimes
01:08:13
um >> you got to tell yourself that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You feel like a
01:08:17
hypocrite in a way. >> Yeah. >> You know the right things to do, but you
01:08:21
still don't want to do it. >> Yeah. But there's so much power in being
01:08:25
vulnerable. And I think I've found that too, even now just with relationships
01:08:30
with people in the team, like my friends, it's just like every conversation's more open.
01:08:38
Everything's more honest. You have a deeper level of, I guess, understanding.
01:08:42
You >> like you truly truly understand and care for them >> on this level. And you just check in on
01:08:49
your mates. And I think that's been the most powerful thing for me and my family
01:08:54
and friend group is we're more hyper aware and we understand it more. Um but yeah, it's like I don't need to feel
01:09:05
bad for 2 weeks before I get help. I can do it after a few days. >> That's cool. Yeah, the vulnerability
01:09:11
thing is interesting. I've um I I would up until a few years ago have described
01:09:15
myself as completely um invulnerable, if that's if that's a word. But I'm like
01:09:20
I'm older than you. I went to an all boys school in the 1980s. It was a different generation. Um so it's [ __ ]
01:09:25
hard for me, but it's the best thing ever. >> It's so empowering. >> Yeah. It just it opens people up because
01:09:34
>> actually everyone's got [ __ ] going on in their life. Everyone has stuff going on
01:09:38
upstairs, you know. Oh, mate. That's one one I I I stopped seeing a therapist
01:09:43
around about the same time I started this podcast and um I I've actually found doing this podcast quite cathartic
01:09:48
because you realize that everyone's carrying [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Absolutely everyone. People that even
01:09:52
people that you wouldn't even expect. >> No. >> Um it's um indiscriminate, you know, and
01:09:57
everyone's going to go through stuff. >> So um so when was it that your your
01:10:01
family staged like an intervention of sorts? When was that? 2021. >> 2021. So yeah, I was just in the worst
01:10:09
possible place again. Um, >> was this the broken finger? >> Yeah. And I think again just like all
01:10:16
those thoughts in my head as well from things that have happened in the past as well that I felt like what could have I
01:10:22
done better >> um in certain situations and and whatnot. And >> in ter in terms of um the suicides
01:10:29
around you, >> not so much that but just like why why and trying to understand and
01:10:40
>> and just other things like >> trying Yeah, I just don't really know in a way. Um but
01:10:51
yeah, I guess I was in a horrible place and I wasn't sleeping at all. Um I was
01:10:59
probably not eating enough and exercising too much and I yeah just panic attacks just I just
01:11:10
couldn't [ __ ] I was like a shell of myself like I didn't even look like me
01:11:15
nothing to me and I just got tired of pretending I guess and >> putting on a brave face um and I had
01:11:28
like a few moments where it just because it was so continuous I never got a break
01:11:33
like there was never any good moments. I never had a good moment. I'd cry every
01:11:38
morning when I woke up because the day was scary. I didn't want to face the day and then I'd cry every
01:11:46
night because I didn't want to repeat the same process and I was scared of going to sleep because of like
01:11:54
things like I just couldn't sleep. I closed my eyes and just terrible like it's almost like hallucinations and and
01:12:02
whatnot. So, I was just constantly in the cycle and I couldn't get out of it.
01:12:08
>> For how long? >> Um, I'd say like that for about two months maybe.
01:12:15
>> Oh my god. >> Um, just running off no sleep. And then I went to Maddie Green who's in the
01:12:23
White Ferns and I would just go I I was I wouldn't even tell her but I just went
01:12:30
round drove around knocked on her front door at about you know late at night and
01:12:36
she just knew that I was like I was like you tell I've been crying. I'd actually come from sitting at a
01:12:43
lookout just contemplating I guess life. Why should I be here? And then I >> Did you Did you Did you contemplate
01:12:54
taking your own life? >> Yeah. I think throughout that two-month process, I
01:12:59
>> It's a long time to be exhausted. Eh, >> yeah. >> It's a long time.
01:13:04
>> Those two months I suicide was on my mind every single day. Um, there was
01:13:10
once where there's once where I was in my car and I had I had all these pills for like a injured
01:13:22
wrist and I was in my car and I just wanted to take them all. I wanted to I just wanted the pains to go away in
01:13:30
that moment. >> Yeah, 100%. That's that's what it is. You just want the pain to stop. I just
01:13:34
wanted it to stop. And I was like, if people know what I'm going through, like
01:13:38
I'm bringing my family's life down, how can I do this? And so I yeah, in my car, like panic attack cuz
01:13:49
it was like, [ __ ] this is what I want to do, but you know, that's obviously a
01:13:54
scary decision to make. >> And I obviously didn't. And then I a few weeks later or whatever was at this
01:14:03
lookout and then just sat there because like it was a beautiful night and I just
01:14:09
found something so like peaceful in that but it also made me sad because it was like I saw beauty in that but there was
01:14:16
no like beauty in my life or how I was feeling. And then I was like got in my car again, drove to Maddiey's house and
01:14:26
I think I actually went to call my dad and he didn't answer but I heard his voice message and that just broke me. I
01:14:34
was like I love my dad and so I went to but he can't know how I'm feeling. I went to Maddiey's and
01:14:41
stayed with Maddie that night and that ended up being a common theme that I was at her house most nights and she just
01:14:49
she didn't even necessarily talk to me like >> she's just there. I sat at like her
01:14:54
table with her when I came in that night and was she was there and I was here and
01:14:58
I was just like this like >> like almost like a catatonic so state >> just like couldn't talk
01:15:05
>> could not talk and she knew like she knew from how I was but I just I couldn't tell her anything and I didn't
01:15:11
want to tell her the thoughts I was having because I didn't want to scare her
01:15:16
and then people would ask me Maddie would and our PDM would ask me cuz you do have to ask at times s are you
01:15:23
suicidal? And I'd say I think about it a lot, but I will never do it, >> which was a lie cuz I had thought about
01:15:34
it. And then I was no good. And I just thought I needed to get away cuz Wellington I was finding obviously like
01:15:42
my routine there was horrible because every day was hard. And we had a training camp in Christ Church and I was
01:15:49
like I just need to get to that training camp because I'll be at cricket. I'll be
01:15:54
in my happy place and I just need to make it there. Um, and I guess that was my mindset. I'm getting to
01:16:08
Christ Church. So, got on the plane and at that point in time, Maddie had I was on anti-depressants and everything and
01:16:17
Maddie had taken all my pills with me. Um, so she had all of that and I was just going to have one each day from
01:16:25
her. And I was sitting on the window seat and I looked out the window on the plane and it was the most beautiful
01:16:32
night. I love Wellington. I beautiful city. >> You can't beat it on a good day.
01:16:36
>> No, you can't beat it on a good day. >> And I just looked out and I was like,
01:16:41
"Wow, this is beautiful. Like this place is beautiful and this is" and it just hit
01:16:48
me in that moment. This is the last time I'm ever going to see this city. And I started crying on
01:16:55
the plane. >> What? What did you mean? >> Like as in I'm going to Christ Church
01:17:00
away from my family. Um, and I'm not going to see Wellington again because I want this pain to end.
01:17:09
And if I end it in Christ Church, my family aren't going to have the pain of
01:17:15
finding me. >> Mely, this is heartbreaking. >> And yeah, [ __ ] It was Yeah, it was
01:17:24
that's the only thing I felt was like my head was sore, my head was screaming,
01:17:29
like my body was tired. I was like I was treating water and yeah, I then went out that night in
01:17:43
Lincoln and I just I went for a walk and I wrote a note actually in my room for mom, dad,
01:17:51
and Jess. And I just remember walking and I there's a security guard on campus
01:18:00
and I was so like this is what I'm doing in my own head and the security guard on
01:18:05
campus came and spoke to me and he was like hey are you okay and it's like it brought me back to
01:18:13
reality >> cuz I was not in like I was not in my I was in this world that only I was
01:18:23
thinking about and and like my pain and he just random guy said, "Are you okay?"
01:18:30
>> Amazing. I bet he's got no idea of the impact that he had. >> Yeah. And I
01:18:33
>> What did you just say? Yeah, sweet. >> I said, "Yeah, I'm good. Thanks. Just
01:18:36
going for a walk." >> But it just it just brought me back to life in a way.
01:18:42
>> Um, >> can you remember that the uh the note you wrote? >> Did you did you keep it?
01:18:47
>> I I have it. I can read it actually. I >> Yeah. Would you? >> Yeah.
01:18:52
only if it's >> Yeah, only if you want. >> I um So then I Maddie found me
01:19:01
and I they had to let the psychologist know and I got um yeah, sent home the next day and I
01:19:13
just didn't want to go home because I had to face the people that I love the
01:19:18
most in the world. >> Yeah. And that's tough because I just love my family so much and I knew
01:19:25
what I was feeling. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. >> The brain's a it's a [ __ ] up part of
01:19:32
the body. >> The brain's horrible. >> It makes no sense at all. >> Yeah.
01:19:37
>> Um Maddie flew home with me. >> Yeah. >> And I said to Maddie, cuz Jess wasn't at
01:19:44
camp, she was sick or something. And I flew home from that camp and was like, Maddie was like, "You have to
01:19:51
tell someone like someone's got to stay with you tonight." So I said, "Okay,
01:19:56
Jess and Zach, who's her boyfriend, can come over and they can stay with me, but
01:20:01
mom and dad can't know, they can't know anything." Um, so I got home, Jess and Zach were there
01:20:09
and then mom and dad because I was in in a flat and mom and dad came over and I could tell they looked sad like they had
01:20:17
been crying and then I'd gone to my room to go get some space and my uncle and
01:20:23
auntie walk in and I just broke down >> like my grandparents came in and there
01:20:28
are some really powerful things said that night like my dad read a speech out that he reads some of it on
01:20:36
his like treading water monologue. >> Yeah, it's incredible, by the way.
01:20:39
>> Yeah, it is powerful, >> man. And yeah, so it's like a 2-minute
01:20:43
speech, but took it he was so um emotional it took him like 10 minutes to get through it.
01:20:47
>> And I'd only seen him cry once before at his mom's funeral >> and then he's has he got better at um
01:20:54
crying and showing emotion through Yeah. >> Yeah. So after that speech, he cried
01:20:59
every day for a month. M >> um >> just because of your pain. >> Yeah.
01:21:04
>> Oh my god. >> And then I guess yeah I think there my grandma spoke and she said I don't know how many
01:21:16
years papa and I have left but without you we have no good years left. Mhm. >> And then my sister Jess Powerful was
01:21:26
said, "I remember growing up cuz family's been our thing." Like I remember growing up
01:21:32
we talked about we were gutted mom and dad didn't have more kids and they wanted more kids
01:21:38
>> actually. They wanted more kids but mom's cancer didn't allow that. Um and
01:21:42
we like me and just didn't know that. So when we're young, like we wish we had
01:21:46
more brothers and sisters because we wanted we want our kids to have what we had growing up with all the cousins.
01:21:55
>> And Jess was like, and we've talked about that and how like we want our kids
01:21:59
to be like best mates. >> And she was like, if I don't if you're not here, my kids don't get that.
01:22:06
>> Like I don't get to be an auntie and uncle to to your kids. And that like everything
01:22:13
broke me. like it's heartbreaking. >> There was not a dry eye in in that room.
01:22:20
And then the next day I went to mom and dad took me to the crisis team to hospital and I was there about 8 n hours
01:22:29
and I was then and >> waiting time. Waiting time to get seen by someone. >> Oh. Oh, okay. Wow.
01:22:38
And then I spoke to a psychiatrist and two um I guess people that work in the mental health unit there. I was in the
01:22:47
room for them with 90 minutes talking about stuff and felt like 30 and then they took mom and dad in, spoke to
01:22:56
them about a plan. Um started seeing a psychiatrist as well as a psychologist weekly. Got on more medication.
01:23:05
Um, and then yeah, basically from there they told mom and dad what to do. I didn't have a I wasn't allowed to be
01:23:12
alone. So for about maybe 6 weeks I had to sleep next to mom or dad. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I read this and you
01:23:18
weren't allowed to drive a car. >> Not allowed to drive a car. >> Was this like um like suicide watch in a
01:23:23
way? >> In a way. Yeah. Um >> yeah. So my family wrapped around me and
01:23:31
>> how did you feel at the time? Were you annoyed by that or were you appreciative
01:23:34
of it? >> I think at that time I just needed that and after seeing my family that
01:23:39
intervention it was like yes I still feel the exact same but I've seen my family and I've seen that and I was like
01:23:48
at that time it was I'm going to get better for my family because they need me here.
01:23:53
>> Did it feel like a relief though like this huge secret that you'd got? It was
01:23:57
it was it was like >> it felt like I was finally going to get the help I needed.
01:24:03
>> And you didn't Yeah. Yeah. You didn't you didn't have to hide or keep it to
01:24:07
yourself anymore. It must have been so almost like that point in time where it's like sometimes you have to break
01:24:13
down to break through and >> I reached my absolute absolute lowest. >> Like it's a long it's a it's a long hard
01:24:21
road back though when you're at that rock bottom. >> Yeah. And yeah, and then we went into um but I in
01:24:29
that 8 hours I wrote down everything I'd been feeling um everything I'd been feeling and then I
01:24:39
read that out about 3 weeks later to all my family. And I think for me like for so long, it's probably like only recent,
01:24:48
not in the last few few months or six months where I used to write how I felt and then almost that's how I expressed
01:24:58
my emotions. So I'd write it and give it to mom or dad. That's how I communicated
01:25:03
because talking was too hard. I couldn't talk like this podcast. You tell me to
01:25:08
do that I don't know eight months ago. like talking was too hard, >> but writing was my coping mechanism. And
01:25:15
I wrote down everything because I saw the vulner vulnerability my family showed to me in that moment and I wanted
01:25:20
them to understand it all. Um, so I wrote down and I've kept it all like >> Yeah, writing is a great way to process
01:25:29
your thoughts and get them down on the page. >> Yeah. Just like for me it was became I
01:25:35
wrote down everything and that was off my chest. >> Yeah. And then I got from writing to
01:25:40
reading my writing out and it was like another weight off my chest. Um but and that in the hospital is when I wrote
01:25:53
the trending water my like I've been treing water for too long because that's
01:25:57
ex cuz my mom asked me how are you feeling and I just thought for someone that hasn't felt this pain or gone
01:26:03
through this before it's hard to explain. So, how can I visually explain it?
01:26:09
>> So, that's the analogy you came up with. >> So, that's Yeah. What I wrote to mom and
01:26:13
dad that that day. Um >> I like it. It's a great analogy. >> And uh I if you want to take the analogy
01:26:20
even further, I guess um like when you're down south and you're at your absolute rock bottom, it's like you're
01:26:26
treating water, but the waves are coming over at the same time. >> Yeah. >> Just not catching a break.
01:26:31
>> No. Yeah. Just constantly. Constantly. And that gets too tiring if you do it
01:26:36
for too long. Yeah. can't >> you can't survive doing it for too long
01:26:39
and I guess that's the position I was in. Um but yeah, I like wrote a bit to um my
01:26:51
mom as well and I just said I I had said to her like I just feel every emotion so deeply and
01:27:00
I've always been sensitive and worried about things but through it all my family is what I live for because I
01:27:06
don't want to be without you and that's why I hugged you for so long yesterday.
01:27:11
Sometimes it feels like I want everything to stop. I thought maybe it would be easier for me and everyone else
01:27:17
not to be here because I would bring every everyone down with me. But I know how much you care and how much you love
01:27:23
me. That's why I find it hard to talk to you about it sometimes because because I
01:27:28
don't want to make you sad or hurt when you have done nothing wrong. Sometimes
01:27:33
it's hard telling the people you're closest to things because I want to protect you all.
01:27:38
Um And I >> jeez >> had um this like I from the from today till however long till today it has been
01:27:57
the hardest period of my life. I don't think I've slept for over a over weeks.
01:28:02
I think every night the thought of suicide crossed my mind and it scared me so much. I'd gone for a 5k run on Monday
01:28:08
night and then for a drive to a lookout. I was in my car crying, contemplating life, but I knew deep down that it
01:28:16
wasn't what I wanted to do. It felt like it was my it was my brain telling me I
01:28:20
had to do it. Luckily, I decided to go to Maddie. The first person I felt comfortable to talk about all these
01:28:27
thoughts with, she called me and I answered the phone and went to her place. I felt dead inside. Maddie stayed
01:28:35
with me that night and since then she's been my constant support. Maddie, you
01:28:40
helped keep me alive. I'm so sorry I put so much on you and that for a while
01:28:45
you're my only person to talk to you. You provided me with safety and with your love and support, you have enabled
01:28:50
me to still be here standing today asking for more help. Alongside Jess, I couldn't ask for a better big sister.
01:28:59
Um >> Oh my god. And then yeah, there's a lot of writing on here. >> I don't even know these people that
01:29:06
you're talking about, but I'm feeling emotional. >> Yeah, >> this is a lot. Wow.
01:29:10
>> Um, >> how do you feel reading that back now? >> Does it still make you emotional or are
01:29:15
you >> It makes me emotional. Um, but I've read it almost so many times now.
01:29:23
>> But it does make me feel emotional. And I think like I haven't shown many people
01:29:28
this stuff. uh my family and a couple of my closest friends. I mean, there's a
01:29:33
lot in here that some of it I'll probably never ever share. >> Um to the world, but there's stuff in it
01:29:42
that I just it helped me so much this writing. >> Um reading it to my family helped them
01:29:51
as well. Um >> it sounds like your family is was close anyway, but is it is your family closer
01:29:56
now, do you think? Yeah. So close. But so much closer now. Um >> so much closer.
01:30:05
>> And have you got have you got a plan now? Like what if you you know what if
01:30:08
something happens and you end up spiraling again? Like have you got a resilience plan now or what do you It's
01:30:12
seems see this is the thing. It feels like you're doing everything right. Anyway.
01:30:16
>> Yeah. I think for me it's just being really aware of my emotions. Um,
01:30:24
that's probably the main thing and I guess just trying to keep in good habits
01:30:31
like sometimes >> I just got to find the balance right I think in my life as well like with the
01:30:38
over >> can be too busy at times but I think for me I know what makes me happy and if I
01:30:46
can do that as much as possible um and I'm more open Now I'm kinder to myself.
01:30:54
I will tell my family I have an amazing partner who just gets me and supports me
01:31:01
and I know I can tell him how I feel which before that I wouldn't have never
01:31:06
done with any other partner. >> I love that. Has he has he experienced any mental health issues himself or No,
01:31:14
>> no, he hasn't. Um >> cuz my um when I was married, my wife JJ, she this this is like five six years
01:31:21
ago now. She had um some terrible mental health episodes like what you sort of imagined like um where she just couldn't
01:31:28
get out of bed. >> And I I look back now and I handled it completely the wrong way. Like and it
01:31:33
came from a well-meaning place, but I'd come home from work and I'd be like,
01:31:36
"Come on, let's uh let's open the curtains. We'll get out there, get some
01:31:39
vitamin D." And >> you know, and I look back now and it's like, "Fuck, man. You're an idiot." So,
01:31:43
it's really cool that you've got a partner who's same age as you. >> Uh, he's a bit old, 25,
01:31:48
>> right? Yeah. But still very, very young in his 20s. That he's got that sort of
01:31:52
empathy and understanding. I think that's really cool. >> I think like a big sign for me was I
01:31:57
didn't really speak to people that I just met about my mental health stuff. and I'd
01:32:04
met him and like we'd kind of had a friendship before and and then when we were together, I told him really early
01:32:11
on and read out like all my stuff I'd wrote before and I was like >> first date.
01:32:18
>> Yeah, first date. >> [ __ ] He's probably like, >> "Get it all out on the table."
01:32:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. He's probably like, "Shit, I'm going to run now."
01:32:26
No, it wasn't quite first date. Otherwise, we probably won't be together. Um, but yeah, I just felt
01:32:33
comfortable enough to tell him that. And yeah, he he hasn't had any struggles.
01:32:39
Well, >> he's had struggles. Obviously, everyone has struggles, but not to the like
01:32:44
mental illness, I guess. >> Um, but yeah, even today, like every time I read something out or talk about
01:32:53
experience, he just cries. >> But yeah, he's >> Wow, that's cool. Oh, he sounds like a
01:32:59
good dude. Yeah, he's a good guy. >> Yeah. Um, yeah. One thing like from
01:33:03
doing this podcast, you realize that everyone um, if you haven't had any struggles yet, you count yourself lucky,
01:33:08
but you are at some point in life. Like Adam Perori, do do are you familiar? >> I know the New Zealand cricket wicket
01:33:13
keeper from probably before you were born. Yeah. >> Um, but he was like cocky and brash and
01:33:19
a very very good very good cricketer. Um, massive massive ego. Yeah. >> You know, at the peak of his career,
01:33:25
everyone sort of thought he was like kind of a tool I guess. Um, and he he he got through life just fine. Then had a
01:33:31
relationship break up in his late 40s and was like couldn't leave the couldn't
01:33:34
leave the house and was having panic attacks and stuff. >> So, you never know when it's going to
01:33:38
get >> going to happen. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Happens to different people at
01:33:41
different times. >> Yeah. But the um so so um with that that big incident in 2021 that's when you
01:33:48
tapped out of cricket for a while and um they they could have it could have just
01:33:52
been said that you were unavailable for selection but um you were very very firm
01:33:56
in your um messaging and that you wanted people to know that it was a like a mental health thing.
01:34:01
>> Yeah. >> Um which I think that was really cool. Were you nervous about doing that?
01:34:05
>> Yeah. >> [ __ ] yourself? >> Yeah, I was really nervous. Um
01:34:11
yeah I you know I could have said I'd broke my finger and I I I could not avail it's
01:34:18
not available. I could have said anything but I thought this is actually something I'm passionate about mental
01:34:24
health and I've seen other people close to me struggle. So if I hide away from
01:34:31
it then like I can't expect the stigma to change. M. >> So yeah, I wanted to be open because
01:34:40
that was the reason why I wasn't going on tour because I needed to be home. I
01:34:44
needed to be, you know, >> you need to heal. >> Yeah, I needed to heal just like people
01:34:50
need to heal from injuries. I needed to heal from what I was going through. >> Um, so yeah, if I couldn't I can't you
01:34:57
can't expect change. I couldn't expect change in our mental health system or
01:35:04
anything. And I didn't want to be a hypocrite in that way. >> So I wanted to be honest and I thought,
01:35:10
you know, if someone else sees that and sees me being honest, maybe it can encourage them to speak up.
01:35:17
>> Yeah. And is that the sort of the idea of um treading water? Is that sort of
01:35:21
how that came about? >> Yeah. >> Around that time. Yeah. >> Yeah. So
01:35:24
>> Treading Water, by the way, it's bloody great. It's fantastic. Um Yeah. Out of
01:35:29
there rough.nz is the website and Treading Water is the name of the name of the series.
01:35:33
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's brilliant. >> Yeah. So I obviously then started well
01:35:39
got back into playing well I was still training and everything once I could and um then played that home world cup and
01:35:46
started 2022 and we then had we went into our leave period after that. But throughout that
01:35:53
World Cup I thought what am I going to do and leave? Um what's something I can
01:35:58
do while I'm at home? >> Loves a project. So, I thought about this idea and it kind of just came to
01:36:05
me. I wrote up a little plan, whatnot. Um, I got in touch with a psychologist who knew Mike King. Gave him a call and
01:36:16
said, "This is what I want to do. I want to interview these people. I want to do
01:36:21
high-profile, not so high profile because it affects us all." >> Um, and everyone's story is so
01:36:26
different. and like the my dad's perspective. I wanted it from a parents perspective and how to help. So called
01:36:32
him kind of said I want to interview the people and I know someone who's very
01:36:39
good um film photographer freelancer and I know him and we work well together and
01:36:47
he was like I love the idea and then for a while I was thinking like me and Hamish who filmed it were like
01:36:53
how are we going to raise money for this project cuz film's obviously expensive
01:36:57
and then >> were you like I'll just go to India for a couple of months leave it with
01:37:01
At that point there was no India. >> How did you waste the money? >> Well, I that's why I'm hope have been so
01:37:08
supportive. So, we're like thinking about it and Mike was like, "Oh, that's
01:37:13
pretty pretty um cheap for what you're doing, like the work you're putting in and for, you
01:37:20
know, it's amazing what um the support I'm hope have shown us, Hish, through
01:37:27
this project and that Mike kind of gave us full trust and and let us let us do this." And it's been
01:37:35
to this day it's like the best thing I'm most proud of in my life. I'm more proud
01:37:41
of that. Um kind >> scoring 232 against Ireland. Come on. >> No. No. I agree. Like sports one thing,
01:37:50
but um >> yeah, sport's the thing I love and what I work really hard for and everything,
01:37:55
but this is what I've turned a horrible experience into and to hopefully help
01:38:00
other people. That for me that is today the greatest thing I've ever done. >> Yeah. You're proud of yourself.
01:38:09
>> I am proud of Treading Water >> and I am I am proud of who I am today
01:38:17
from where I've come from. >> Yeah. >> And I want to keep being better every day. But I'm proud of
01:38:26
the journey I am on and and where I'm at where I'm at today. And I'm Yeah.
01:38:33
>> Yeah. That keep keep getting better thing. It comes back to that perfectionism thing we talked about
01:38:37
before. E that's a good good thing but not always a good thing. >> Yeah.
01:38:41
>> I notic you got some tattoos as well. Have you got a this two shall pass?
01:38:44
>> Yeah. This two shall pass. That's what my papa said to me. >> Um
01:38:48
>> I think it's an Abraham Lincoln quote. I think old US president. But it's it's a
01:38:52
great one. Eh. >> Yeah. >> It's fantastic. >> Yeah, it is a good one. So he said that
01:38:57
to me at that family intervention and >> he's Yeah. >> Great man.
01:39:03
>> Yeah. Well, that's Hey, thanks for being so open about all this stuff.
01:39:06
>> No, thank you. >> Is it Is it hard for you to talk about or does it get any easier?
01:39:11
>> Um, it gets easier. >> But how will you feel when when I when I leave here in a few minutes? How will
01:39:16
you feel? Is it is it exhausting talking about it? >> Um, I feel like I've got a lot better.
01:39:21
It used to be bloody tiring talking about it. Um, the scariest part is when it comes out online
01:39:30
because when you talk you're talking about it, the scariest part is listening.
01:39:34
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Or people messaging you cuz they've heard it or whatever.
01:39:37
>> The scariest part is knowing that people are going to hear this. >> Yeah.
01:39:41
>> That's the scary part. >> But it's um >> but it's worth it. It's powerful. It's
01:39:46
impactful. You're doing it to help others and you got to bring it back to your why. But that's the scariest part
01:39:51
for me. >> Absolutely. and and people have to listen to like an hour of us talking
01:39:55
about cricket before they get to this stuff. >> I know they might give up.
01:40:00
>> Um all right, we'll end with some light-hearted ones. Um thanks for being
01:40:03
so open about about that. Um I just realized the other day, so um the Olympics are on in Brisbane in 2032.
01:40:10
>> 2032. So you'll that's um like what 9 years from now? No. >> Yeah. 9 years from now. So you'll be
01:40:16
>> 31. >> Yeah. So, you probably don't want to get that far ahead of yourself, but it's
01:40:20
entirely possible that um that cricket will be a sport at those games. And so, you could go to the Olympics.
01:40:26
>> Yes, that is cool. And I love Brisbane. I have like a little bit of a connection
01:40:30
now being with the Brisbane Heat. So, great city. And yeah, growing up, you watch the Olympics and you think that's
01:40:37
that's the that's what you want to be. >> That's the pinnacle really. E amazing.
01:40:42
>> Yeah. Cuz you didn't see women's World Cups on TV, but you saw the Olympics.
01:40:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So that's a childhood dream. >> [ __ ] How good. And entirely possible.
01:40:51
>> Yeah. >> Entirely possible. What have you thought about what you want to do beyond cricket
01:40:55
or not? >> Um I do think about it. >> You still studying? You're doing it.
01:40:59
>> No, I'm not studying at the moment. Um >> No. Good call. No name.
01:41:03
>> Thank you. It's Yeah, I'm enjoying not studying. >> Good go easy on yourself. Calm the [ __ ]
01:41:10
down. >> It is nice. It is nice not having a deadline. Um, but I guess this I'm hope stuff and
01:41:18
the trending ward has been a real passion project and that keeps me busy away from cricket and I love that. What
01:41:25
I I know what I want to do is help people. So I don't know in what capacity that will be but it's along those lines
01:41:33
and I think yeah help people. I want to bring people together and I quite like the idea of
01:41:42
therapy through sport and music. I guess that's two things that have have helped
01:41:47
me. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> That's cool. Well, I mean um we've uh
01:41:53
touched upon the perfectionism thing. So, whatever you do, I'm sure you're
01:41:56
going to do do it very very well and challenge yourself and be hard on yourself. And you know, you mentioned
01:42:02
you want to since your your sister in her speech talking about having kids and you want your kids to play together, you
01:42:07
you do want a family. >> Yeah. >> How you how this is the hard thing. I
01:42:11
touched on this with Susie Bates. How like it it's problematic, isn't it? How
01:42:15
do you fit it in? >> Yeah. Well, I think >> you take a year off. Maybe it's
01:42:19
>> Yeah. Take a year off. It's been awesome seeing other female athletes do it. like
01:42:23
Amy Sith did it for the White Fins and came back and I've seen other people do
01:42:30
do it. You know, there's a Aussie women's footballer I know. I think she
01:42:34
came back after after giving birth. So, it's possible and I think that's the
01:42:39
great thing that it's that it's possible. But I for me, like I talk about I knew I wanted to be a white firm
01:42:44
when I was about nine. I think something I've always known is that I want my own
01:42:48
family. And that's cuz family to me is everything because of the family I've
01:42:53
grown up in. And >> so yeah, I don't know. I would definitely I'd put I'll put my family
01:42:59
first before cricket. So whether that means retiring earlier or taking a break, I know for me, you know,
01:43:05
cricket's this short period of time, but family's forever. M well and when you
01:43:10
see like your um your friends/ idols like um Susie and Sophie who are in their like mid to late 30s and they're
01:43:16
still [ __ ] kicking ass, >> you must think, well, I'm only 22. I could take a year off, two years off and
01:43:21
I still got ages to go. >> Yeah. I mean, I want to play cricket for as long as I can, as much as I enjoy it.
01:43:28
And I think, you know, I love being competitive. I love getting better each day. And that's what professional sport
01:43:33
allows you to do. Um but yeah, people have taken breaks and come back and come back stronger. So yeah, I mean, who
01:43:41
knows what will happen in the future, but yeah, I definitely definitely want to have a family of my own one day, but
01:43:47
no time soon. I'm too young for that. >> And um so your partner, you've been
01:43:52
together like a year and a year and a bit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah. How do you like that? Must be
01:43:59
hard to make that work. Like you're we're meeting in um Mount Monganui today
01:44:04
and you're off to the UK. Where are you going next? >> South Africa. >> South Africa.
01:44:08
>> Like how many how many weeks a year are you at home? >> Yeah, I I mean it it changes each year.
01:44:13
But um now he's a cricketer himself and with the Wellington Firebird, so he gets
01:44:20
it and um I think that's the the main thing. and communicating well as well I
01:44:26
guess is important because when you're away that's the you know that's the only
01:44:29
way you can talk to each other so you have to communicate um but yeah it's just valuing the time you have with each
01:44:37
other as well and understanding it like we're both young you want to >> go both do do what you love and and have
01:44:46
someone that supports that and I think for us we're both lucky that we get it
01:44:52
um >> but yeah I And it's definitely going to be be it'll probably just get harder cuz
01:44:57
there's going to be more cricket. But I guess you know if you want it to work,
01:45:01
you find a way and you make it work. >> Yeah, absolutely. If it's meant to be,
01:45:04
it'll it'll figure its way out. >> But yeah, it does make it tough.
01:45:08
Definitely. >> Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Susie had um some sort of um theory
01:45:13
which I've never sort of thought of. She said there's a lot of like samesex
01:45:16
relationships in women's cricket and she she puts that down to the fact that um
01:45:20
you're away so much convenience sort of thing in a way which is an interesting
01:45:25
>> and it's it's accepted as well and in that environment and >> yeah you spend a lot of time with those
01:45:33
people. So, but yeah, I mean, yeah, you find a way to make it work and >> and hopefully your travel can, you know,
01:45:42
if you're playing cricket in the same country at the same time, it it can work
01:45:46
and and whatnot. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, how good. Hey, well, that's probably
01:45:50
a good place to wrap it up. Unless there's anything that um I haven't bought bought bought up or touched upon
01:45:55
that you want to. >> No, happy. Thank you. >> Oh, thank you uh for being so generous
01:46:00
with your time. We've been going for almost two hours and I I can't thank you
01:46:03
enough. Your your poor um teammates who you're grooming kick them out. >> Kick them out. Where have they been for
01:46:09
the last two hours? >> Someone else is very >> Yeah, maybe I have to buy them dinner or
01:46:13
something. >> Oh, that's great. Me Kur, thank you so much for your time. You're a great New
01:46:17
Zealander and um yeah. Yeah, I'm just I'm actually humbled to be in your in
01:46:22
your presence. Like the stuff that you're doing outside of cricket is just phenomenal and it's um changing lives
01:46:27
and saving lives. >> Thank you, Dom. No, I appreciate and appreciate all you do. Like your podcast
01:46:32
channel is amazing and um you've allowed people to open up with you and that's
01:46:38
that's a credit to you when you get people to open up. So, it's it's been
01:46:43
great to chat and to finally meet you in person. >> Finally. >> I appreciate it. You're the best.