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thing a lot of people say about you is words like um prickly like unapproachable or scary.
00:00:06
>> Are are you those things? No, I'm not. But I I get that quite often. I think I
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picked the right career. I think, you know, being in the music business was great and playing drums was [music]
00:00:13
great. Sky said to me, um, oh, the Angels are looking for a drummer as well. And okay, so long story short, I
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put my name down for that and I got that gig. >> Yeah, that changed my life. You want
00:00:24
aspire to aspire to be out there and actually [music] very successful? Number one, [snorts] uh, you got to give it
00:00:31
all. Fear of failure, I think, is very prevalent in [music] the music industry. We, we all put our balls on the line a
00:00:36
fair bit to actually get to where we got to and then to take the next step. What
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shits me is is sometimes the lack of lack of belief in the local artists. >> Was Was there any grief for you
00:00:46
personally in stepping away from performance? >> No, I had enough. >> Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:53
the center of performance. Whenever there's a top performance in New Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:00:58
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that for days. That's the boys who got the Holland one in To.
00:01:06
Hey Finn, how's the performance going? >> Top tier. >> Nice. This is our generate room. In
00:01:11
here, you'll find our top performers helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver investments. Get in here, Finn.
00:01:17
Maximize. Generate. >> Putting performance first. >> Brent Teles, welcome to my podcast.
00:01:22
Thank you. Nice to be here, mate. A lot of people um I've spoken to over the last couple of weeks have have been sort
00:01:27
of raised an eyebrow and they're very surprised that you said yes to this. [laughter]
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>> Yeah. I don't know why would they why would they raise an eyebrow? I don't know. I they should ask me.
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>> Yeah. I don't know. Um another thing a lot of people say about you is words like um like um prickly um uh like
00:01:43
[laughter] unapproachable or scary. >> Are are you those things? >> No, I'm not. But I I get that quite
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often. Do you like it? >> I don't mind it. Um I I don't know if I'm proud of it, but it's just the way
00:01:56
it is. >> Cuz I've known you I haven't had any sort of business dealings with you, but
00:02:00
I've known you and your wife Helen for 20 20 odd years. And um I've always found you to be perfectly fine and
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pleasant. Is it different when you're opposite a boardroom table with you? >> I'm pretty direct. I mean, people won't
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die wondering knowing what I think. [laughter] So that's perhaps why people um are
00:02:17
intimidated or they look at what I've done and go, "Oh, he's he's that guy, so I can't I can't really talk to But I of
00:02:22
course I can >> I take lots of calls from lots of young bands and all kinds of people. So
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>> And I see you you Yeah. You and your wife Helen. I see you around at gigs all
00:02:30
the time. Often often still holding hands even though you've been together 40 odd years.
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>> That's true. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I I think you can tell a lot about a person by the, you know, the
00:02:41
state of their relationship, especially a long-term relationship after that many
00:02:44
decades. And it's a real special one you guys have. >> Yeah. Well, um I mean Helen and I work
00:02:47
together. So, we've worked together for um pretty much all the time we've been together, which is more like 50 years,
00:02:53
actually. Um so, you know, she's a very special person to me and and uh you know, she
00:02:58
she fills in a lot of the gaps for me. The stuff that I'm not not great at, she's really good at. Um so, she just
00:03:04
tends to keep in the shadows a little bit and sort of pushes me out there to do the do the business, but she's very
00:03:08
good at the detail and accounting and all that kind of stuff. And um you know it's it's it's some people might say
00:03:15
it's a real test of a relationship that we're you know together all the time. We
00:03:19
have lunch together every day you know but we just do that and we enjoy it. >> Yeah.
00:03:23
>> That's fabulous. And it's um it's also amazing that you're both at this stage
00:03:27
of life and you both still enjoy working. So it' be easy for one of you to still enjoy it and the other one to
00:03:31
be like no it's time to stop. >> One of us does. >> One of us enjoys it. Uh Helen uh not so
00:03:38
much. So, I've been trying to get her to to step down for quite some time, but you know, she steps into the real big
00:03:43
ones like the once in a lifetime >> um or the um ticketing uh which is highly complicated. She stepped into
00:03:50
that and you know, there was some pretty tense moments there, but but now she's that's done and out of the way. She's
00:03:55
finally gone, okay, well, now I'm just going to sit back and just muck around with some things. So, she still has a
00:03:59
desk in the office. She'll do some, you know, some just look at things as she wants to, but she's really, you know,
00:04:04
not as active as she was. You both still enjoy going to gigs. You go to a lot of gigs.
00:04:10
>> Yeah. I I don't I mean I go to a lot of shows. I don't necessarily stick around.
00:04:14
I might watch half an hour, maybe 15 minutes to get the idea. Um it's it's rare for me to watch a whole show. Um I
00:04:22
uh for for for different reasons, I caught Split Ends in uh Wellington and I watched both shows from a seat, the
00:04:29
entire show, >> mainly because my son was playing drums. Um but was still hard. It's normally
00:04:34
hard for me to watch a show because I my mind's thinking of all kinds of things going on in the background. But that one
00:04:40
>> um that was quite special and you [clears throat] know seeing Studians play again. I know those guys very very
00:04:46
well and it was just a was quite a thrill to see them play with my son was wow >> like a full circle moment. Yeah.
00:04:53
>> Yeah. >> It's crazy. E it's wild. Um and there's no beef with you and Eddie Rainer
00:04:58
anymore. He he [laughter] was >> he was in a a band with you called the Was this Space Ws or Citizen Band? Well,
00:05:04
>> no, he was we were in space together. >> Yeah. And and Split Ends um poached him.
00:05:10
>> I don't know. I think he just I think he decided that he wanted to be split ends.
00:05:13
I think he decided and you know, it wasn't a bad decision he made. >> Um you know, Space Balls was a special
00:05:18
kind of act and had its own issues, but um I think he made the right call. >> Yeah.
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>> So, how old are you now? What are you? 71. >> 71, I think. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How's the health?
00:05:27
>> Good. I'm good. You know, I've lost a knee. I lost some organ. I've lost. What
00:05:31
was it? Um the Yeah, something. >> Um Yeah. How's your hearing? I get worried about my hearing. Ei
00:05:41
plugs. I I wear it when I watch shows cuz my my, you know, playing drums for 30 years, you know, did do some damage.
00:05:47
Um but I'm okay. >> Yeah. >> What What are the best the best and worst things about, you know, getting
00:05:52
older, getting into this decade of life? Um well um I I really enjoy what I do and that's really important. Um and I
00:06:02
have fun. Um I don't like it when it's not fun. Um you know um but I think I've picked the right career. I think, you
00:06:09
know, being in the music business was great and playing drums was great. Then being a manager for a while and um and
00:06:14
then uh you know, coming back to New Zealand and and starting, you know, the agency and being a promoter was a good
00:06:20
call and I think it was the right call. >> Um and I but I really love it and I love
00:06:23
the people I work with as well. So, you know, every day you come into work and go, you know, have have a bit of a laugh
00:06:28
and, you know, get on with it. Um >> you have to be good at it, make it work, but that's that's still fun for me. So,
00:06:34
I enjoy that. That keeps me going. Do you a lot of people find they they get more direct as they get older
00:06:40
[laughter] cuz just cuz you you run out of patience for idiots. Do you find as someone that's been like fairly direct
00:06:46
most of your life? Like are you sort of are you softening or you find you getting more
00:06:49
>> No, it's because it's because um I know stuff. >> So if someone's going to sit down and
00:06:55
tell me how to do something and I go, you're completely wrong there. This is how it's done. I I I can't
00:07:02
how can I put this? I don't I just want to waste anyone's time. I go, "This is how this is how it's going to be. If you
00:07:06
don't want to go this way, I'll go somewhere else. It's okay, >> you know." >> And I suppose people find that
00:07:11
affronting, but um I just want to get stuff done. >> And the I'm so pleased you wore the hat
00:07:16
in today. Um cuz I feel like the hat is part of your identity. Like if I see a shadow at a gig, it's like, "Oh, there's
00:07:22
Eckles." >> When when did you decide to make the the hat part of your thing? >> Very interesting question. No one's
00:07:27
asking me that before, but I remember walking down Mount Eden Road one day to an office in St. Benedict Street when we
00:07:34
we were there and I had an umbrella that I bought overseas somewhere. I thought I'd be glad to have a hat and I should
00:07:40
buy a hat. And anyway, so I found an aubra from Ali's in uh when they were in K Road. It was a really nice aubra and I
00:07:47
put it on went oh no I can't wear that. And it took me maybe 6 weeks to actually
00:07:52
be able to wear it and I [snorts] started wearing it to work and then I started to go actually I really like
00:07:56
this [laughter] and people started commenting on it. Oh, they're commenting on the hat and it looks good. Okay, well
00:08:01
let's go more. So every trip [snorts] overseas I would go to there's a hat store in uh New York called something
00:08:08
hatters. Um [snorts] anyway so they they specialize with Stson's um and I always
00:08:14
find that my best hat is a Stson and it's a Stson Roadmaster that I love the most. Um it's the one I'm wearing now.
00:08:21
Um and there's a once you get into that world there's a whole lot of things you can find, you know, the cheap ones, the
00:08:26
more expensive ones, but it's become me. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, >> it is. It's part of your identity. How
00:08:31
many How many do you have? >> 12. [laughter] >> Thanks for asking. >> That was such a fast answer. Why? Why?
00:08:39
Why? Why? >> I just happen to have 12, but I had a whole lot stolen once, but um you know,
00:08:44
I've got a proper hat brush and all that kind of stuff and and uh you know, um look after them properly. So, you know,
00:08:50
it's it's fun. >> Yeah. >> What's an average day like these days? Are you still a 6 a.m. man?
00:08:55
>> Yeah, 6:00 a.m. Uh I've got a gym at home. Uh, and I go to the gym and uh and
00:09:01
sort of work out for half an hour. Then I play drums for about half an hour. >> Do you?
00:09:05
>> Yeah. And then uh I'll record a drum track uh on my iPhone um which is like a
00:09:10
3minut track that I've worked out and then I send that to to some people uh [snorts] to write songs to.
00:09:16
>> Um and then I do some other um meditation stuff um and then go inside and make some breakfast and go to work
00:09:25
and work by 9. That's a hell of a morning routine. >> What's the meditation routine you do?
00:09:32
>> Uh there's a there's a number of things that I do just to just to um focus myself and get myself calm and
00:09:41
>> try and just um you know cut through all the crap that's going on because there's
00:09:45
a lot of crap going on quite often with shows and just other things. So I don't want to go too much into that but but
00:09:51
it's something I do every day for like 15 minutes. >> Right. Oh, not not so it's not a formal
00:09:56
thing like TM transcendental meditation or No, no, no. [laughter] >> Are you sort of embarrassed talking
00:10:02
about it? >> No, no. I just a personal thing. So I I don't don't think I have to give that
00:10:06
away quite it is. But no, it it has some formality to it. >> When when did you start doing this? You
00:10:12
weren't doing this in the ' 90s when you were with the Angels, were you? [laughter]
00:10:16
>> No. Um no, I started about November last year. >> Oh wow. Um and uh um I you know there
00:10:24
was a a a a center that started in Mount Eden that I I thought I'd go and have check that out. So I went and checked it
00:10:29
out. Was it was um to do with meditation and and other things and uh really enjoyed it. So I've been been going back
00:10:36
to that on a Monday night for the last 3 months. >> That's a cool thing to do. I've I've
00:10:41
fallen off the wagon a bit, but I did a thing called TM, you know, transcendental meditation. So it's like
00:10:45
20 minutes. A lot of famous people do it like Hugh Jackman and Jerry Seinfeld and
00:10:49
Howard Stone. You're supposed to do it twice a day, like 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes at night. And I sort
00:10:53
of I've got out of habit of doing it, but it feels like you've had a really good deep nap once you've done it. You
00:10:58
feel amazing. >> Yeah. I think doing doing it with other people is good, too. Um because you
00:11:03
don't tend to sort of open your eyes but [laughter] or get distracted but but but doing it
00:11:08
by yourself is a bit harder. Um, and I've now I have my own way of doing it where I kind of will listen to something
00:11:14
but I walk around and you know still I just need to that that sort of um that motion helps me but um it's really
00:11:22
centered me it's made some um it's helped me make some good decisions. M I appreciate you sharing that especially
00:11:28
since you were kind of reluctant to like maybe it's a bit airy fairy or something
00:11:32
but I think um especially as as we get older um and longevity becomes more of a concern. I think the the more like
00:11:38
beneficial things we can do or up votes for ourselves the better and meditation is one of those things.
00:11:42
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I think you get in touch with certain things and you
00:11:45
know, I've done a lot of things. Um, and you know, at 70 odd, you kind of go, well, I just want to just want to, you
00:11:52
know, center on get centered and and then approach the day that way. And it seems to work for me.
00:11:57
>> Yeah. When when you do chats like this, what's the thing you get asked most often? What are most people curious
00:12:02
about? >> People ask about stories, you know, tell us the stories >> and writers backstage. Is that a thing?
00:12:09
>> [ __ ] I mean, this, you know, that's it's a writer as a writer. I mean, you know, the the the crazy riders are not
00:12:14
really there so much these days, mind you. Artists like Pink would would dispute that, but um but you know, it's
00:12:20
all pretty normal these days. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Um yeah, I think that became a thing
00:12:25
like in the maybe the 70s or ' 80s, Van Halen, they they had the Eminem things where they want the the brown M&M's
00:12:32
>> taken out and it sort of developed like a legend of its own. >> Yeah. >> I can't actually, but [laughter]
00:12:38
>> but no, it's it's now what it is. This is what it actually what it is. If you're on the road in a tour bus all the
00:12:44
time and you you play a show, get in the tour bus, drive for eight hours, get out
00:12:47
of the tour bus and go into into the dressing rooms. You want it set up how you want it set up. You want stuff there
00:12:53
that makes you feel comfortable. That's why there's a long list of things. It could be underpants. It could be socks.
00:12:58
It could be M&M's. It could be how you like your toast. It could be all the stuff. You know, it's not [ __ ] It's
00:13:04
actually what's what an artist wants to make themselves feel comfortable. cuz in
00:13:09
2 hours time they got to go get on a stage and build that stuff. So it's it makes some sense on one level, but if
00:13:15
you weren't aware of it, people would would um go, "Oh, that's that's a that's a wank or whatever." It's not. It's just
00:13:21
they want that stuff. They can have it. They're paying for it. >> Mhm. You you've brought the Rolling
00:13:24
Stones to New Zealand before. Do they do they have a pool table at everything? Is
00:13:27
that a [snorts] >> Um I am not sure what they had actually. Um it's a little accepted to say I
00:13:34
bought the Rolling Stones, Frontier bought the Rolling Stones. I'm the representative in New Zealand. But um
00:13:39
you know um what a great gig that was. Interesting people to work with. Very interesting. They know they know what
00:13:45
they're doing. >> Yeah. >> Talk about direct. >> Oh, really? [laughter] >> Really good though. In a good way.
00:13:50
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Fantastic. Okay, we'll do that. I >> I think I've seen them the last three,
00:13:55
four times they've been to New Zealand and uh they get older and older. Obviously, we all do. But um the show
00:14:00
doesn't get any worse. It's phenomenal. >> No. Well, the there were definitely some
00:14:04
things about that show that were interesting in terms of, you know, um not making the runway too long. Um
00:14:11
making so there weren't too many steps between the dressing room and the stage because because you know there's a lot
00:14:16
there's an age thing you go that's cool. >> Um but what a show and you know they are the kind of people if they say
00:14:25
do something you go okay you don't ask cuz you know they know and you go oh now I know why they did that. It was smart
00:14:31
you know. Well, there's and when people ask you for stories, like what like what
00:14:34
do you say? Do you have a go-to that you you tell? >> You have so many. I think people need to
00:14:39
be more direct with the questions they shitload. But I was driving here today. I was thinking but he asked me. So there
00:14:45
was one that always cracks me up is that when I first joined the Angels and it must have been 1981, maybe ' 82, we were
00:14:52
going to our first tour of North America and we were flying had to fly via uh Hawaii to get to Los Angeles and and
00:15:02
some of the guys in the band like to smoke weed, right? And they had it on the plane and what the [ __ ] what what's
00:15:09
[laughter] going on here? So they said, "Oh, no, it's cool." He said, "What we do is we go into the a DCA. We go into
00:15:16
the bathroom and we push up the the the um the ceiling. It's a ceiling panel, put the weed in there, pull the panel
00:15:23
down, get off the plane, do customs, you get back on the same plane, get the weed
00:15:27
again out of the out of the out of the toilet. So, [laughter] >> we pretty innocent really.
00:15:34
No, I know. No, it is cuz like I mean weed's pretty much legal around the world now, you know, most western
00:15:39
places, but um back then it was still like highly illegal, right? >> Yeah. Because I remember the the customs
00:15:44
guy said to me, "Have you got your own personal station?" I said, "No, [laughter]
00:15:49
>> it's on the plane." >> Oh, [snorts] there's there's I've done a lot of research, so there's there's
00:15:53
going to be some great stories. Um [laughter] just a couple of quickfire ones here. Um in terms of being a
00:15:58
promoter, what's better now than when you started and what's worse? You've seen so much change, right?
00:16:04
>> What's better are better venues. >> Yeah, we got better venues in New Zealand, better venues in Oakuckland.
00:16:10
Most most acts when they say they want to tour in New Zealand want to come to Aland and most come to Aland only.
00:16:16
>> But with Spark Arena was a game changer. So, you know, we have better venues now
00:16:20
>> and and the the theaters, the town hall, the Civic and KTK, they're really well
00:16:25
set up and they're good at that level, too, as well. And you got power stations. So, you know, much better
00:16:29
venues, well run by people who know what they're doing. >> Mhm. in terms of like ticketing and um
00:16:34
yeah online apps and phones. Is that better? I remember like a I was thinking about the other day like um early in the
00:16:40
2000s Red Hot Chili Peppers came and I remember lining up in a big line outside Real Groovy going around the block to
00:16:44
get a ticket and you were sort of competing with people online at home at the same time.
00:16:49
>> That's right. It was a crossover between hard tickets which is like a paper ticket or or booking online and that was
00:16:55
must have been about 2005 and that all kind of changed over. It changed everything. Um but the biggest problem
00:17:01
we face right now is um is um you know ticketing money is not held in trust. So when you buy a ticket for a show that
00:17:08
the money is not held in trust by the u promoter or venue um and sometimes gets into the hands of the promoter before
00:17:16
the show happens [snorts] and like the timeless or the um festival or um juicy fest if it goes down everyone loses
00:17:23
their money. >> That's our biggest scourge. >> Yeah. And and the government, hello. The
00:17:28
government doesn't give a [ __ ] Simply >> cuz I spoke to them. [laughter] I told
00:17:35
them in as direct a way as I possibly could, just like I'm doing now. [laughter]
00:17:42
Sort this [ __ ] out. >> What's the most money you've made and the most money you've lost on a single
00:17:47
show? [snorts] >> You don't have to say who the artist was. >> Um, >> actually, you don't even have to. You
00:17:53
don't have to answer anything you don't want today. >> Yeah. No, I I you know, um I I've lost,
00:17:59
you know, maybe 300,000 on a show. >> Um well, a tour, I'll put it that way. Um and you know, on the positive side,
00:18:10
probably close to a million dollars on a tour. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but you know, God, it's easy to lose,
00:18:18
hard to make. >> Do you do you just accept that um you're going to lose on some? How much of it is
00:18:22
like what is it? Gut versus data. >> Oh, it's pretty much gut with me. >> Yeah. >> Um but other people are much more data
00:18:29
focused. I'm not. I There's certain things I look for um that that get me excited. Um you know, [gasps]
00:18:37
I was I saying to someone today, first rule of promoting is have something to promote. [snorts] You know, you got to
00:18:42
you got to have something to work with. You know, like I'm thinking of doing a doing a tour with with Sha actually and
00:18:50
>> um you know, the Navigator was such a big album. Yeah. >> Um and he has so many great songs and
00:18:55
demand there is great so I think there's someone there to work with. Um that excites me. Super groove the same. Um
00:19:01
and and and many fat Freddy drop the same. Mara Williams the same. You know just um you look for you look for that
00:19:07
that that factor that you go yeah I can I can I can I can tell the story to the public to to offer tickets to them and
00:19:17
and they accept it. But sometimes you get it wrong and they they stay away in droves. Um, and it doesn't matter what
00:19:22
you do, you just got to swallow hard and go for it. And you can't. You still got
00:19:26
to smile and pretend it's okay and, you know, deal with the artist well and the shows. Well,
00:19:33
>> even though on the inside you're feeling some sort of resentment. >> This is what happens. It just happens,
00:19:37
you know. Um, yeah. So, not much you can do about that. >> The morning a show goes on sale. What
00:19:42
are you like? [sighs] >> Um, [gasps] well, it's actually nowadays it's the pre-sale. Um, often there, you know
00:19:50
what, I'm not sure what the on sale is anymore. I think most of it's in the pre-sale, like a ticketing pre-sale or
00:19:55
an artist [snorts] pre-sale or a sponsor pre-sale. Um, you know, the indications
00:20:01
are more when you announce a show and people go, "Oh, man, you've just announced this."
00:20:07
You go, "Oh, okay." Or, you know, my cousin who's um, you know, 75 calls and says, "Brent, you've just announced
00:20:15
this." you go, "Wow, she knows this is going to be this is going to go well. It's my lipmus."
00:20:20
>> Um, so people are buzzing about it before you go on sale. You you got an idea. So once the on sale comes, you're
00:20:25
pretty sure it's going to be okay. It's when it's a bit quiet, you worry about it. Um, but you pretty much know what
00:20:31
your life's going to be like for the next 3 months the day the show goes on sale.
00:20:35
>> Yeah. >> It's not for the faint, is it? >> No, but it's it's like everything in the
00:20:40
music business and probably in radio as well. It's it can't be in for a short amount of time. It's it's you got to be
00:20:45
in for the long haul. It's got to be a career. And for me, it's been like, you know, all my life in various um parts of
00:20:50
it, but you know, you can't just jump in and jump out. You know, you you know, >> this has been a good warm-up. This is
00:20:57
going to be a great chat. There's a lot of ground to cover. How how much time have you allocated for this? Are you
00:21:02
good? Okay. >> Um All right. Well, let's go back to the early years. So, when when were you
00:21:07
born? Like 1954. >> 54. >> Yeah. >> What are your earliest memories of music? Oh. Um, my dad we had a we had a a
00:21:17
parophone record player. Um, was one like a suitcase one and my dad had Nat King Cole
00:21:24
>> and Manteani. Uh, and then we had a a radiogram that had 78s in it. Um, a whole lot of 78s.
00:21:34
And a lot of them were sort of um sort of war themed and kind of odd, but um they were my first memories. Um and then
00:21:43
you know we we had um we bought my parents bought lots of like um children's stories on vinyl. So
00:21:52
Cinderella and [laughter] stuff like Okay. >> Real rock and rolly. But yeah um uh
00:21:59
there was no rock and roll in there. Maybe Nat Cole was as close as you get, but there was no rock and roll in there
00:22:04
at all. Nothing. >> Um, no. I I I um would be my first rock and roll experience.
00:22:13
Um, >> do you remember the first time you heard Elvis or the Beatles or anything?
00:22:17
>> Didn't like the Beatles when I heard him, >> didn't you? >> No. Or the Stones? No.
00:22:21
>> Why? >> Just didn't didn't get it. Um, but it it it certainly grew on me and understand
00:22:28
it. But that was my first impression. I loved Credence Clearwater Revival. That was the the band that really got to me.
00:22:34
Um, but I, you know, I didn't really understand what I wanted to do until I started
00:22:43
playing. And then I ah okay this I like doing this bit and I like this style and
00:22:48
I realized it was the sort of the dirtier style of stuff you know more the stones more bad company um idea rather
00:22:55
than the straight up um um artist or you know god in those days it was wasn't much Connie Francis was probably most
00:23:06
most >> yeah from from from what I can um gather it wasn't a particularly musical sort of
00:23:10
household so you from Mount Rosal your parents both in sort of pharmaceutical trade. I believe your dad played ukulele
00:23:16
and harmonica from the the army. >> Yeah. >> Um >> so you got drums at the age of 12.
00:23:22
>> How did how did that come? How did you get that over the line with your parents?
00:23:25
>> My [snorts] grandmother my grandmother bought the kit for me. Um we used to go to um the White Heron for
00:23:33
dinner on Sundays. Um uh so mom didn't have to cook. U me and my sister. Mom and dad would go and Frank Gibson Jr.
00:23:43
was playing there with his trio at at the the legendary White Heron. Um and I just would sit and watch him play go.
00:23:49
That's so cool. And you know, I'd love to do that one day. And actually, it might have been Frank Senior actually.
00:23:55
Um and uh you know I I started I mom got me some lessons, but the lessons were you played on telephone book.
00:24:05
>> So that was the Roman telephone book. So I, you know, I did that for a while and
00:24:09
I didn't really didn't really connect with me at all to be honest. Um, and then, um, my grandmother came up with
00:24:16
the idea of buying a kid for me. So remember the day when dad walked up the stairs, um, banging on a big big red
00:24:24
bass drum. I went, "Holy hell, what's happened here?" And, you know, I didn't even know how to set it up. I had no
00:24:29
idea. So then we got more lessons and it started it started to click a little bit. Um, and then then the bloke up the
00:24:38
road, uh, uh, someone Chan, uh, in Curry Avenue in Hillsborough, he said to me, he was playing guitar. He said, "Bring
00:24:45
your kid up." So, and we'll, uh, we'll play. So, I I hauled my kid up on the my trolley and uh, and we played for half
00:24:54
an hour. He said, he said, "Do you have to play so loud?" Um, you know, [laughter]
00:24:59
uh, but I just love it was a light bulb and I loved I was just, you know, once the band started playing guitar, bass
00:25:05
and drums, like, oh, this is something that just really got me. So, >> [snorts] >> um, from then I pretend played really. I
00:25:14
wasn't really in a band or anything or I wasn't anything like any good until I got to high school.
00:25:20
>> Was it you, From what I can gather, your parents wanted you to be like a doctor
00:25:24
or an accountant, something respectable? Um, were they devastated when [laughter]
00:25:29
I got to I got to say that um well no what what happened was no I when I left school I enjoy I I went to UEB the
00:25:40
United Empire Box Company in Mangry as a sales and marketing cadet. Can you believe that? At about 18 or 19.
00:25:47
>> Um and then um I heard about the Lion Breweries pub circuit and I thought I'm
00:25:53
going to put a band together if I put an ad in the paper. saying, you know, musicians wanted 100 bucks a week, which
00:25:58
is what you got paid. Um, call me. And I had a call from, uh, Peter Cartah, um, who was the bass player in Space W, uh,
00:26:08
and who introduced me to Alistister Redell and Eddie Raina. So, the three of the four of us started a band called the
00:26:14
Steuart and the Belmonts. And I had to tell my dad that I was leaving UEB and going to try this out for a year and um,
00:26:22
and go on the road. And he he said, "Yeah, that's fine. That's okay. you can do that.
00:26:25
>> You obviously could see that I really loved it. So, we went on the road and ended up playing. We went to the car
00:26:30
hotel [laughter] and we arrived there and the manager says, "Okay, uh, okay guys, nice to meet
00:26:39
you." And here you said, "Uh, now the floor show is an Ari, what floor show? What? What do you mean?"
00:26:47
He's it's it's an he said, "Yeah, he'll be here this afternoon with his charts."
00:26:52
We go, "What are you talking about?" I could read a chart. I think Eddie might be able to. Anyway, the first night,
00:26:59
Inari turned up, Inari. It was absolute disaster. [laughter] Disaster. Alistister ended up giving him
00:27:07
his his guitar to play. I stopped playing. We just watched him. But but as the week went on, we sort of got better.
00:27:13
And um uh that was the first week at the Car Hotel. We not staying there for six
00:27:18
weeks. Um and didn't really go on from there. But that that was a the start of Space
00:27:23
>> Walls. Um >> that sort of um I don't know if you've ever thought of it this way, but um the
00:27:28
like the career that you've got now and the career that you I mean when [snorts]
00:27:31
you're in the Angels and we'll get to the Angels chapter, but you were sort of managing the band and now you're going
00:27:35
to concert promotion. The fact that you were the sales cadet and you put an ad in the paper [snorts] looking for a
00:27:40
band. You always had that sort of management. >> Yeah. Always. Yeah. >> Yeah. Interesting. Eh, yeah. So, so when
00:27:46
I when I got that gig in the Angels, I really wanted to make sure that I I wasn't just playing drums, that I was
00:27:52
meeting as many people as I could and watch what was going on, understanding understanding the business. Um, which I
00:27:58
did, and that's kind of set me up. >> Yeah. [gasps] >> Okay. So, back to Space Watts. Um, so
00:28:03
this was a massive, massive band. Um, there's a clip that's still online now, which has aged really well from um the
00:28:10
um Studio One New Faces show, which is like a live TV show. >> Oh, Space Walls. Yeah. Yeah. Space.
00:28:15
Yeah. Yeah. >> So, yeah. So, you're on So, so the Stewart and the Bellmonts, is that what
00:28:20
the band was called? No. What was the >> No, no. Stewart and the Boss was the was
00:28:24
the covers band that was Space Vault. So, we had a we had a band on the side. Okay. Various other musicians that we
00:28:30
used to make a lot of money uh when we're very good at it. Um um and and that was sort of part of Space Walls,
00:28:36
but we played covers. >> Okay. So, it was like a disguise band Space Walls. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:42
>> Well, so two for the price of one. Oh, it's so dumb. I mean, why do we just do
00:28:45
space wars? It was just dumb. >> What were we thinking? [laughter] What were we thinking? Oh, there's no this
00:28:50
precious thing over here. Let's keep it in cotton wool, but we'll have some fun over here. Hang on. Put them together.
00:28:56
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, that's confusing. New Zealand. [laughter] >> Yeah. So, um so that um Yeah. What are
00:29:04
your recollections of that? Studio One, New Faces, like a live TV show from Avalon.
00:29:08
>> Oh, yeah. We we um we we we got on that and uh we flew down and we we we recorded the song in the morning and
00:29:15
shot the clip in the afternoon >> and it just changed our lives >> pretty much overnight.
00:29:22
>> Yeah, that was out out on the street. So you your singer Alistister Redell. He's
00:29:25
um sort of like Bowiees. It's he's kind of um >> I don't know. I don't know what the term
00:29:32
>> Well, he has he has an aura about I mean um very talented uh guitar player, singer, performer. um songwriter um you
00:29:40
know but he but but almost to a fault that he didn't really want to let himself I don't know there's a go too
00:29:49
far I don't know what it was but the opportunities that we could have had didn't really didn't really come to
00:29:55
anything and it could have been a whole different story so [snorts] um yeah he was a very talented man I haven't seen
00:30:01
any other clips of space what's other than that black and white one of out on the street was that his whole sort of
00:30:06
stage presence or stage Yeah, there is one of us doing a song called Beautiful Boy where I have a a um sequin butterfly
00:30:13
on my forehead, [laughter] >> just in case you missed it. >> And what was this? So, this is back when
00:30:18
there was only one like TV channel in New Zealand. So, yeah. Yeah. What was that like? You guys must have been just
00:30:24
like overnight famous. >> Well, we were was on I think 6:00 or 7:00 on TV one on Sunday. So, yeah,
00:30:30
we're overnight somewhat split ends. Same show split ends. So, um, yeah, over overnight famous and and just crazy
00:30:37
crazy, you know, because it was, you know, we we sort of became the voice of a generation, you know. Um,
00:30:43
>> what was the reaction like? Was it polarizing like where a lot of people clutching their pearls?
00:30:48
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, what is this? They're wearing makeup. So, [laughter]
00:30:53
say um I'm going to write a letter to them now. [laughter] But it was very it was controversial but
00:31:02
you know we ended up you know doing a big tour no no uh Christ Church Town Hallington
00:31:08
Opera House Deneden Regent Theater in Chicago Civic Theater Oakland we played Town Hall I think it was
00:31:16
>> what what did fame look like in New Zealand back then? >> Yeah, it was pretty crazy. We weren't
00:31:22
the greatest band I don't think but we we we gave all. Um but you know it was it was pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And
00:31:30
after that there's another successful band, Citizen Band. >> Uhhuh. >> Um I've actually had um Mike Chan on the
00:31:35
podcast. >> He's a great guest. Um he talked about what he So he left Splits because of his
00:31:41
agrophobia. Correct. Um hated hated flying, had a panic attack on the way to LA.
00:31:47
>> There was a moment where he had a pill in his luggage and he thought if he can't, you know, find this pill, he's
00:31:51
going to die sort of thing. >> And he he he told a story about going to Wellington with you, sharing a room. I
00:31:57
said I said, "Did did Brent have any idea what you were going through?" And he he reckons he wore a really good mask
00:32:01
and none no one else in the band had any idea. >> Well, I it really really annoyed me when
00:32:07
I found out cuz, you know, uh I love Michael, but you want to know these things and you know,
00:32:14
it made a whole lot of things um become, "Oh, now I understand." You know, you want to know what people people are
00:32:21
going through. >> So, you just thought he was acting weird sometimes? Well, no. We'd we'd go,
00:32:26
"Well, we're going to be in Christ Church for, you know, for 5 days, but three of those days we'll rehearse."
00:32:30
Okay, great. But the first day he'd go home, you go, "Well, what happened to the rehearsal?" He said, "Oh, I had to
00:32:35
go home." But, um, you know, I really feel for him what what he went through, but you It's a shame he didn't talk more
00:32:42
about it about it. >> Yeah. He talked about it in quite a bit of depth in his book. It was on on the
00:32:47
podcast, and it sounds harrowing. >> It's a horrible thing to go through. But I suppose New Zealand back then, you
00:32:52
weren't men in particular, you weren't talking about that stuff, were you? >> No.
00:32:57
>> Oh, no. We No. >> Even Even with with bandmates or close friends, you probably wouldn't feel
00:33:03
comfortable chatting about that sort of thing. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Nothing like that.
00:33:07
>> Yeah. So, after Citizen Band, that's when why do you go to Australia? >> We went to Australia cuz the label we
00:33:14
were signed to CBS, they wanted us to go to Australia. So, we went to Australia.
00:33:18
It was a complete and utter disaster. Um the second disastrous trip to Australia. The first was in Space Wars,
00:33:25
but that's not a story. Um um but yes, and then we lasted there for I don't know, maybe a couple of months and then
00:33:34
we went came back home to New Zealand for a tour. >> Then Michael said, "I'm not going to go
00:33:38
back to Australia." Um so we found Roland Roland Colleen uh and we went back. Oh, and Greg Greg's the same. He
00:33:44
didn't want to come back either. So, um, we went back as a three-piece and we just started from the ground up and we
00:33:51
did well. We were playing like seven nights a week, >> you know, we played a lot. Um, and then
00:33:57
Greg came back into the bands and we just worked and worked and worked. Perhaps a little naive about the the the
00:34:03
business. Um, I think possibly. Yes. And then it all was just under the weight. It collapsed. We just couldn't making no
00:34:09
progress. Um, and then I friend of mine said, "Oh, there's a band called Mondo Rock that
00:34:16
want to It's Ross Wilson." As in Daddy Cool, as in um Yeah, Daddy Cool. Um uh he um uh they were looking for a
00:34:25
drummer. So, do you want I said, "I give it a shot." So, I flew to Melbourne with
00:34:29
him. And uh the audition was terrible. >> Terrible. Um and Ross, >> why why was it terrible?
00:34:36
>> I just the wrong guy for that band. Okay. you know, and Ross Wilson said to me, "Well, we'll play one more song.
00:34:42
What do you want to play?" I said, "Eagle Rock." You know, cuz he he's wrote it. He sang it. So, I got to play
00:34:48
Eagle Rock. On the way back, uh, this guy said to me, "Um, oh, the Angels are looking for a drummer as well." Okay.
00:34:56
So, long story short, I put my name down for that and I got that gig. >> Yeah. That changed my life.
00:35:03
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Did it. In what way? Well, all of a sudden I had some money in my pocket.
00:35:08
[laughter] We we got paid $300 a week cash. Um and you know, I had been on the doll
00:35:15
before that, I think. I'm not sure. Oh, no. Sound did okay. Um so, 300 bucks a week and and um you know, we were
00:35:23
serious recording sessions and international producers and touring the world and you know, signed to Epic, big
00:35:29
time stuff. M knowing this um podcast was going ahead, I I was doing a lot of research last
00:35:36
week and I found a headline about the Angels. Um it says this. In the early 80s, Australia's biggest and most
00:35:42
dangerous band, The Angels, had the world at their feet. But their meteoric rise and tragic fall is a tale littered
00:35:48
with chaos, controversy, and death. >> Death? >> Yeah. What What is What does that mean?
00:35:54
What was Was that in the 70s before you came along, or do you do you hear that and think, "What are they on about?"
00:35:59
>> No. No. You know, I you know, it depends on that was written, but I mean, you
00:36:02
know, the Angels, you know, a form of the band still exists, but um um band started in 1976 and I joined in 81. And
00:36:12
you know, we had we had three opportunities with three American labels um uh and um I just don't think we
00:36:20
handled it well at all um at all. And I wish I had my time again. Um, we had, you know, one great period where we
00:36:27
where we released a double live album called Live Line, which is still to me one of the most the greatest live albums
00:36:33
that you could listen to out of Australia anyway. Um, so much passion and power in it. Um and then um we were
00:36:40
in Memphis uh and uh found a producer there uh Terry Manning who produced all his Easy Top
00:36:48
albums and [snorts] Led Zeppelin and what have you and to and asked him to produce us and and was
00:36:54
an incredible time. 6 months of just the most joyous time for us and made the best album went to number one the only
00:37:00
number one album that bands ever had. Um, and that was incredible. But we didn't take advantage of it. We just
00:37:08
stayed in Australia, didn't go to the States, you know, didn't didn't do lots of things. Um, it's a real shame. Um,
00:37:16
and still there are people around the world who hold that band's high regard. They're revered in the industry in North
00:37:21
America. >> Um, but we never played our cards right as far as playing live shows, which is
00:37:28
what we were about. I mean, there's even um yeah, Pearl Jam and Nana, like they both talk about um the influence that
00:37:34
the Angels had on them. >> Yeah. Well, we we we had one particular night Guns and Roses came to see us at
00:37:41
uh the whiskey in Los Angeles and and uh we got word that they wanted to play with us. Um so, so okay. So, there's a
00:37:49
Duff bass player, Axel, and Slash. They I got up and did um three songs. We did we did uh uh nice boys Don't play
00:38:01
rock and roll which is a rose tattoo song and we played uh take a long line of marles we want to play Marles first
00:38:08
anyway so we start and I'm I'm watching on Axel who's got a hell of reputation like he walks to the center of stage
00:38:16
turn around looks at me huge smile on his face I go right let's [ __ ] go here right and we just band took off
00:38:24
that was a moment um playing with guys. It's incredible. Um, so the bands like that really really love what we did
00:38:32
because Australian rock and roll. It's four on the floor in in terms of of of drums. It's a very simple, you know,
00:38:40
carpet bass. It's it's two rhythm guitars uh and a vocal and a guitar solo. That's pretty much what it is. Uh,
00:38:47
the Angels, Rose Tattoo, Midnight All to a Degree, AC/DC. They just got it down.
00:38:52
But no other country in the world holds that thing. Mhm. >> And that thing is what they all rever,
00:38:57
you know, it's ballsy. It's >> it's And to be sitting in the middle of it >> playing it is just something else. It's
00:39:04
just like you're in another world, you know. So powerful. >> What What year was that with the
00:39:08
Gunners? >> That was 1990. >> [ __ ] That's unbelievable. >> That was in their prime. Yeah. They
00:39:15
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's incredible. So as were you appreciative at the time of just how
00:39:22
[ __ ] big that was or was as you get older that you go, "Actually, that was you take your things in in in your
00:39:27
stride and you and and you know you're a musician and you you you know they they
00:39:31
liked us as a band. So you go you can't ask for an autograph. I mean, you know, you just go take it, you take it in your
00:39:37
stride and go, "Yeah, cool. That's great." You know, you talk to them. That's, you know, um it's those moments,
00:39:42
it's those moments you do live for. But, you know, that was in many ways that platform was set up for us. We didn't
00:39:48
take it. >> Why? Because there's so much opportunity in Australia that that was the safe bet
00:39:55
or >> we was [ __ ] Lily just, you know, we just didn't really commit hard enough. M
00:40:00
>> we didn't commit hard enough and as a band, you know, most of us with married
00:40:06
kids and houses and stuff, it's like, you know, you can't you can't depends what you aspire to. If you want aspire
00:40:12
to aspire to be out there and very successful, number one, >> uh you got to give all and we didn't.
00:40:20
>> We just didn't. >> It's a hard grind though, isn't it? Even now to this day. >> Yeah, it is. It's really hard. Yeah. M I
00:40:26
remember being being in New York a bunch of years ago and Jin Wigmore was doing a
00:40:29
show that night at some little dive bar somewhere and at the time she was like on the New Zealand safety video. She was
00:40:35
like a household name in New Zealand and then you you realize you get to New York
00:40:39
and it's >> you know bunch of expats and maybe a couple of industry people in this shitty
00:40:43
little bar with sticky car. >> But see the thing was we could go the Angels could have played New York
00:40:49
>> to a couple of thousand people. >> We never [ __ ] played it. >> Ever played New York ever.
00:40:56
Do everything's worked out great for you, but do do you regret that? Is there part of you that regrets not trying
00:41:02
harder? >> Oh, I think I think you know I I I had enough time enough many years of going
00:41:07
boom tap and you know playing drums and you know I gave my all and I think I stopped playing I was about 45 but
00:41:15
>> um you know we had the opportunity. I don't think it was going to come around
00:41:18
again and I don't regret it but it's just you look back and go wow what could have been.
00:41:23
>> Yeah. >> I've got a great photo here. One of the coolest photos I've ever seen yourself
00:41:27
and um me and Doc >> Dog Nissan. What was he like? He's passed away now. Easin cancer, brain
00:41:32
hemorrhage. >> Yeah, brain cancer very early on. That's an early shot. That's when I just joined
00:41:36
the band. >> It's a cool How do you When do you see that? Like do you do you feel like the
00:41:40
same person now or does it feel like a completely different human? >> No. Me? Yeah. No, no, no. Same person.
00:41:45
>> Exactly the same. Yeah. >> It's a weird thing about aging, eh? Like I'll look in the mirror some mornings
00:41:49
and I feel the same as what I did when I was 20 or 30 and then you see the reflection. It's like
00:41:53
>> well I could still get up and play those songs. Yeah, I might only last half the
00:41:57
set, but you [laughter] know now but I get blisters and what have you and you know feel a bit tired but um you know
00:42:02
Doc was um very charismatic person. Um uh a loner um I don't know I ever quite knew him. Um he was very internalized in
00:42:14
his head. Uh a great performer. Um but for that if you can imagine someone who performs like that has to get up and do
00:42:23
that five or six nights a week which we that's how often we played >> six nights a week which is unbelievable.
00:42:30
>> Yeah. >> Uh and it's it's surprising he didn't really do more damage to himself than he
00:42:35
did but um an amazing person. Loved him. >> Were they um work hard play hard days?
00:42:44
Was >> they didn't really play that hard. M >> drank a bit, >> you know, bit of drugs.
00:42:49
>> Um but not the other excesses of really >> um mind your dog might have. >> Yeah. [laughter]
00:42:57
>> It seems um like rock and roll seems to be quite disciplined now, doesn't it?
00:43:00
And >> no, it wasn't then at all. No, it wasn't then. I mean, you know, it's just it's
00:43:04
just, you know, we just weren't that kind of band. And and um >> we did drink a fair bit. I mean, I I I
00:43:12
kind of learned how to drink a bourbon and coke in one hand and play with one hand as well [laughter] during the
00:43:18
encourse. Um, and you go you'd be gay go and you the crew would have like put mainly
00:43:25
bourbon in the drink. Go what? [laughter] Anyway, >> did you um you mentioned um AC/DC in
00:43:33
passing before. Were you did you have much to do with the other big Australian bands at the time like cultism? I never
00:43:39
met um never met Midnight Oil um uh until I toured them here in New Zealand. >> Um and you know I we had little to do
00:43:49
with any of the any other bands in Australia. >> Um >> uh I actually managed Phil Rudd now from
00:43:54
AC/DC. Um but I never knew them. I think I might have met Angus once in Perth somewhere but no we really didn't
00:44:01
socialize with other bands at all. >> How's Phil Rudd now? He seems to like to be in a really good space.
00:44:05
>> Phil is incredible. the greatest greatest rock drummer in the world. >> So, um, while you were doing this the
00:44:12
stuff with the Angels, you, um, you started managing them while drumming, which seems so bizarre. How that's like
00:44:18
a double life. [laughter] How did that look? How can you be in the band and managing them at the same time?
00:44:24
>> Good question. Um, so I I I was managing I discovered Johnny Diesel and the Injectors in Perth. So, I was managing
00:44:31
them and then so I obviously had those skills and I was managing with the manager of the Angels. we do it
00:44:36
together. Then one day the manager of the Angels came to me and said, "Look, I'm just going to give it up. I'm going
00:44:42
to do it anymore." Uh, and then the band asked me to take over. So, I had some experience. Um, and I said, "Yeah, I'll
00:44:48
take it over and this is my deal." And they said, "Yes, that's fine." So, for the next 10 years, I managed and played
00:44:53
in the band, but what I would do was make sure we had a really good tour manager. a tour manager had more had had
00:44:59
a few more skills and just being able to put, you know, book book the flights and
00:45:03
and um and and drive a van. Um was someone who could actually deal with people well and had good people skills
00:45:09
and >> being [snorts] able to uh get in the in in the middle of a dynamic of a band and
00:45:14
take care of the business when I was on the stage cuz once I got to the venue, I
00:45:18
was just a drummer. I never did any business at all when I got to the venue. That was someone else to do. But after
00:45:24
that we were back home. Yes. Doing all the business. But >> that's the way it worked.
00:45:29
>> Yeah. In hindsight the stuff you were doing then it was sort of you sharpening
00:45:32
the axe for when you came back to New Zealand. >> Yes. I I always always you know longterm
00:45:38
thought I would come back. Um um didn't quite know when. And you know the angels
00:45:47
what happened really? Um it just it just Oh, that's right. Yeah. So it was a person person funny enough was you know
00:45:57
bands and personalities >> you know you're around two people people too much and other factions going on
00:46:03
within there that I just at one point oh [ __ ] this I can't be bothered this is
00:46:07
crazy um and I said to them look I'm going to go back to New Zealand now do you want me to still be the manager and
00:46:12
they said yeah absolutely [snorts] and the drummer yeah we couldn't we couldn't think of it without you being in the
00:46:18
band or managing I was only at home for two weeks when they started doing it themselves
00:46:22
>> [laughter] >> So, so out of sight, out of mind. >> Well, what do you think's going to
00:46:26
happen? I mean, you know, and I and to be honest, I didn't have the energy to go, hang on, guys. But, you know, so, so
00:46:33
while I was in New Zealand, the band was kind of breaking up or I was departing from it and there were a whole lot of
00:46:39
contractual things going on, lawyers involved, horrible [ __ ] going on. And in the in the end I just settled with him
00:46:46
uh for a mount of money um and um just let it go. >> Was Was there any grief for you
00:46:55
personally in stepping away from performance? >> No, I had enough. >> Yeah, >> definitely. Well, I've been playing for
00:47:00
I've been playing for >> really since I you know in Citizen Band, you know, from about whenever that was
00:47:08
75. >> Yeah. really consistently up until, you know, 2000, you know, and and the Angels
00:47:14
was like you you play for six nights a week except for the last week you'd play seven, you know, and you'd be doing like
00:47:20
six week tours and it was that was you know, pretty heavy stuff and >> um you know, not having the success that
00:47:28
you wanted. You living a reasonable life, but not having that success was hard. You you crave that and if it
00:47:34
wasn't there, it was like what's the point? >> Were you more ambitious than the others
00:47:38
perhaps? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay, that was a quick answer. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Well, you just more more driven. It
00:47:44
seems like you Yeah, it seems like you've got a lot going on because for 16 years of that time, you were doing a a
00:47:48
Monday night radio show on TripleM as well. >> That's right. Homegrown. Yeah. >> You just you're a driven [ __ ]
00:47:54
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I had a young family. You had to make ends meet. And yes, I am driven. And you know, I knew
00:48:00
what I wanted to do. And >> and uh I I realized early on that if I if I actually applied myself, I could
00:48:06
make it things happen. So >> that's what I did. >> Did you enjoy the radio stuff on
00:48:10
TripleN? >> Loved it. >> Yeah. >> What was that? Like a music based show like a Zane Lo sort of show.
00:48:15
>> It was a It was a Monday night. Um they had a show called Homegrown which is 2
00:48:19
hours of Australian music on a between 8 and 10 and they invited they invited me
00:48:24
to come on the show as a guest once and I loved it and then I started interviewing artists and and uh got to
00:48:31
know the got to know the program director and they asked me to come on the show permanently which I did but
00:48:37
then that that ended up going all around Australia as well to Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Canberra and the G
00:48:44
Coast um And I would do it wasn't syndicated. I was I'd be on the phone doing it. [laughter]
00:48:51
Crazy [ __ ] you know. But but I I learned so much about Australian music and I had an incredible catalog of
00:48:57
Australian music as well. >> Um and that 16 years. So I learned a lot about that business, that part of the
00:49:04
business too, which I loved. Yeah. Love radio. >> Yeah. Funny enough, um you met Heath, we
00:49:10
were texting the the other day. I said, "Oh, you got any stories about equals to
00:49:13
bring up?" Um and he had a couple of things. He said, "Oh, tell him you did a great job playing Tambourine on the
00:49:18
Brown Sabbath album for Deja Voodoo." >> Um, and he sort of says it was your vision to turn this Yeah. like comedy
00:49:25
rock band into something a bit more. But um, the main takeaway he said to bring up with you is that um, he never even
00:49:30
thought about doing radio or considered radio, but you sort of you told him he'd
00:49:34
be good at it. >> Yeah. >> And then um, that that was in playing in the back of his mind when he got got
00:49:39
offered a job at Holdie, which is something he had never considered. And now obviously he's doing very well on
00:49:43
ZB. >> Yeah. What what did you see in him that you thought thought would make him a
00:49:46
good broadcaster? >> Well, he's a great orator. Has a great sense of humor and has a different has a
00:49:50
good angle on things. Uh and and the way he talks, I could just see it and I I just thought, you know, you you're
00:49:57
you're breakfast breakfast material. That's what I thought cuz knowing some of the guys that I met in Australia,
00:50:03
>> some of the characters you meet, you know, because most people in radio got characters, you people you want to know,
00:50:09
you know, they're interesting. So, I thought he was one of those. >> He's smart. He's like a like a like an
00:50:15
intelligent guy disguised as a bogan. [laughter] >> Very much. It's like a fake bogan.
00:50:20
>> Yeah, it's true. >> So, um Yeah. So, you moved back to New Zealand in 1999, 45 years old when you
00:50:26
went all in as a promoter. Um >> Yeah. Who who was the boss at Equals Entertainment then? Was it yourself or
00:50:32
Helen? >> Uh no. I've always been I've always been the boss. I mean, people call Helen the
00:50:37
over boss. um [laughter] um but but only because if she if she really wants to to
00:50:43
stand up for a point, she will. But no, she looks to me for that um to lead it. And [snorts]
00:50:49
>> um I had no idea what the opportunity was in New Zealand. But looking back now, it was a a massive hole for a
00:50:57
young, you know, young well 45 um a new promoter on the scene because the guys who the guys who were around had been
00:51:04
doing it for a while and they kind of I think it's fair to say setting their ways. Uh there was a more contemporary
00:51:10
angle to look at and much more focused on New Zealand music. >> Now I still am 100% focused on New
00:51:16
Zealand music. That's what makes me tick. Um, so, uh, you know, like the first tour I
00:51:22
did was the Tim Beck and Dave tour. Tim Finn Beck Room and Dave Do. I saw the artwork there.
00:51:28
>> Did you see that? Did you? >> Yeah, I did. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We We can come back to
00:51:32
that story if you want. But, but that was >> How do you feel when you see that's a
00:51:35
cover of the CD? >> That's just uh Yeah, that got me going. That was my calling card.
00:51:40
>> Yeah. >> Um, how do you how do you feel when you hear a Travis song? [laughter]
00:51:44
Ah um well Travis yeah Travis was the first international we did and I actually um I
00:51:51
did everything. I I um voiced the commercials. Um it was something like uh they u sold 2.5
00:52:02
million albums worldwide and have won the someone something prize. The band is Travis and now they're coming to
00:52:09
Oakland. Aland town hall Saturday August 16th. That's what was there. That was the
00:52:15
>> the commercial I think that I read in uh 2000. >> Were they at the time were they one hit
00:52:20
wonder? Why does it always rain on me or? >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. >> The great band.
00:52:24
>> Well, they had everyone sort of thought they were going to be the next big thing, but they weren't really.
00:52:28
>> Had some great songs though. Driftwood's a great song. >> Yeah. I've forgotten now. [laughter]
00:52:33
>> So, that was um that was the only show you promoted in year one. >> That's right. Well, it was Frontier. I
00:52:38
mean because Michael Gdinsky said to me, "Well, you you can be the the rep in New
00:52:42
Zealand and I didn't know what that really meant." Um, but what it meant was that, you know, the shows that they
00:52:48
decided to throw to New Zealand, you got to look after for them and not my money.
00:52:52
They're promoting it. It's it's their money. So, but it was, you know, one show in a year is hardly going to put
00:52:59
food on the table. >> But there must been enough like green shoots there or whatever you want to say
00:53:04
to to give you an idea that, okay, I can make a future out of this. I'm good at this. I can
00:53:08
>> Oh, I know. I already knew that. I was I used to promote shows in Australia, so I
00:53:11
used to promote angel shows and what have you. So, I knew I knew I could do it, but um it was it was just that was
00:53:18
going to be my my total focus and you know, one show in a year is not going to satisfy me. So,
00:53:24
>> I started to look at the local stuff. >> You mentioned Michael Gadinsky before.
00:53:28
Did you have much to do with him? >> A lot. Yeah. When he was alive, he would call me like every every second day he
00:53:34
would be on the phone. >> Now, listen to me. Mhm. you know, number one. >> Yeah.
00:53:39
>> I focus. >> I I got to meet him once. I went over to um um Detroit to um an Ed Sheeran and
00:53:47
Taylor Swift show at uh Ford Stadium, I think it was. I went out for dinner with
00:53:50
him beforehand. >> He was bloody great company. >> Great. Fantastic. Just he he uh
00:53:55
understood people and he was just non-stop. >> In non-stop. [snorts] >> Did you Did you go over to his funeral
00:54:00
or could you not due to CO restrictions? No, we had a service in uh in Mount Eden
00:54:06
in um in in a in a in a reception lounge there um with about 50 people that he had worked with in New Zealand over the
00:54:13
years. >> And we um we did we um we had our own services and our own speakers, but then
00:54:19
we um via um a link to Melbourne, watched the service in Melbourne and then the whole funeral procession with
00:54:26
all the roies and everything else. being being such a close um friend, did you were you balling when he Sharon did his
00:54:33
song Visiting Hours? >> Oh, I think when you know someone that well, you have your own
00:54:45
way to remember them. >> And watching someone else do their way of doing it didn't affect me. I I saw him
00:54:56
differently. He saw him as his promoter. I saw him as much more than that cuz I >> my relationship with him started in in
00:55:04
the Angels when Mushroom signed the Angels in about 1985. So I'd been you know in fact the first time I met him
00:55:10
was in 70 maybe 77 when he rejected me for the first time [laughter] but the band I was in anyway he rejected Space B
00:55:19
and he rejected Citizen Band. So you know but keep on trying. So um but yeah so my relationship with him was very
00:55:26
very long and in different facets and just you know admire him. >> Um great loss to Australia and New
00:55:35
Zealand. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What did he die of? How old was he? >> I think his body just gave up,
00:55:43
>> right? >> Um >> it's a [ __ ] thing about aging, isn't it? >> Well, yeah, he did he he did push the
00:55:48
limits. Um I think if you read the autopsy, you might see that. But uh you know it's it's unfair for me to even
00:55:54
comment on that really cuz I just >> as a person he was driven um he he he really cared about you know in the A&Z
00:56:03
territory. He really cared about the NZ. He cared about New Zealand and you know
00:56:06
signed New Zealand artists and and um and was here quite a lot and he talked as I say he talked pretty talked to me
00:56:13
every second day. So >> yeah. >> All right. So let's talk about together in concert. Um Dave Dobin, Bick Ranger
00:56:19
and Tim Finn. >> Mhm. um 40,000 tickets sold. >> How did how did that idea come about?
00:56:25
>> I was on the phone talking to Bridget Tone who was managing Tim Finn and Dave
00:56:30
Dobin and uh we were talking about Beck Raer who was in Los Angeles recording and I and I said, "Oh [ __ ] wouldn't
00:56:38
that be a great tour? Put them all together." She went, "Why don't we do that? Let's get a hold of Campbell." So we
00:56:44
did. >> Campbell Smith. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And Campbell said no. So then we mucked
00:56:49
around with someone else for a while and that wasn't right. Then all of a sudden
00:56:54
Campbell calls up and says, "No, I want to do it." And and I had had an idea of having a number of lead singers in a
00:57:01
band and doing a show in two halves uh and and and um taking away all the uh um the things you'd expect to see on a
00:57:14
stage like you'd expect to see a backdrop. you'd expect not to see the crew. Um, you know, there wouldn't, you
00:57:21
know, so so on on the set there was a there was a bar and there was no backdrop. Uh, and the crew were on the
00:57:28
stage with the band, you know, so it was very it drew you in as a punter. >> And I [snorts] had some experience with
00:57:34
that in Australia. So the idea I had for it, I've sort of applied it to this and
00:57:40
people were saying, "You're crazy. You know, New Zealand artists don't draw. It just won't won't happen." So, I think I
00:57:46
think the first day I think we sold the Civic out the first day. You know, we ended up doing four Civics in
00:57:51
Oakuckland. >> Um, it just went through the roof. And I think I think it was the It's a long
00:57:57
answer to your question, but I think it was the biggest grossing tour for Tick Techch that year was just the whole
00:58:04
business went what? >> And then the CD was massive as well off the >> I should have got a piece of that
00:58:10
Campbell. [laughter] I know I said no, but now I changed my mind. I read some articles. Cam Campbell
00:58:17
Smith, he's the guy for anyone on that, doesn't know? He he was um a lawyer and then he he bought the big day out to New
00:58:21
Zealand and Oakland city limits. Um there's some articles I read where he he calls you Gandalf.
00:58:26
>> Yeah, I know. [ __ ] I don't know. [laughter] I've got some names for him, too. But he
00:58:31
he usually calls you the old man. He he he and I he and I interesting because we
00:58:36
you know we're both successful what we've done in different fields and sort of admire each other and uh and um give
00:58:43
each other [ __ ] all the time and I still do with him. He and I are involved in
00:58:46
Western Springs and some you know we do the winery tour together. So I like his business acumen and he's very helpful to
00:58:53
me in business as well. when you put on a show like uh Dave Dobin, Bick Ringer, Tim Finn, um and you
00:59:00
think it's a great idea, but then everyone else is coming to you saying it's a terrible idea and it's never
00:59:04
going to work. How do you have that like unwavering self-belief or self-confidence that you're right and
00:59:09
they're all wrong? >> But does it make you nervous when it feels like everyone else is you think,
00:59:16
am I missing something here? >> Um yeah, I mean you just got to trust your instinct on it really. And I mean,
00:59:22
you know, I remember um the, you know, there were definitely people who didn't think it was a good
00:59:31
idea, but there was other people who thought it was a great idea. So, you know, and and I
00:59:36
>> and I remember one day thinking to myself, what if this is a failure and I failed on these artists? You know, how
00:59:42
bad is that? But I think we were all me, Campbell, and Bridget were all nervous about it, but how fast it turned around
00:59:48
when we actually got on sale was um was amazing. Just incredible. >> Yeah, there must be a huge relation.
00:59:53
>> It was and but we didn't realize how big it was. It was it was cathartic and the
00:59:58
whole [snorts] country went, "Yes, we'll have that." >> Yeah. It seems like local local X are
01:00:03
your true passion. It's hard to think of too many people that have done more for
01:00:06
live New Zealand music in this country than what you have. >> Yeah. Um, you like the winery shows,
01:00:11
summer tours, Super Groove. >> Um, yeah. What what what is the love of New Zealand music? Is it because those
01:00:17
relationships are more more relationship based and less transactional than internationals? It's more about
01:00:23
nurturing people rather than just making a buck or >> Yeah. Well, I I think I think, you know,
01:00:27
I like to I like to write the script rather than read the book. you know, I I actually really like to get involved in
01:00:33
how a show is going to be presented, how what the marketing looks like, what the
01:00:36
ticket price is going to be, budgeting, um the routing, the whole thing. I would
01:00:41
like to build the whole thing. I know how to do it. >> Um whereas with the international stuff,
01:00:46
they might just be coming and play in Oakland or or Oakland Wellington or Christ Church at most. Um it's all
01:00:52
prescriptive. It all comes in a package. So, but to put that aside for a second,
01:00:56
my my my thing is I've always always been pro New Zealand. I'm a very proud, you know, New Zealander. Um, and uh, you
01:01:05
know, the the thing that the thing that I'm really noticing right now is that the is the A and Zed territory and and
01:01:15
New Zealand in the musical sense is known as the A and Zed. So A for Australia, NZ for New Zealand, the
01:01:22
Australia and New Zealand territory. Now that came from record companies when they talk about the A&Z territory is
01:01:29
Australasia. The Benelux is you know Norway and Sweden and somewhere else. Southeast Asia is a territory. All
01:01:36
right. So that started with the labels. Um and then it's it's then gotten into the live
01:01:43
music business. We are considered the A&Z really part of Australia. So yeah. So, so one of the issues we have in New
01:01:51
Zealand is that I think we need to claim the NZ back. >> We need to be standing on our own two
01:01:57
feet. A lot of problems that that that we have in New Zealand with international artists, in my opinion, is
01:02:04
that is that the deals are not constructed for New Zealand. They're a deal that's based on Australia. So
01:02:12
either the either the per show deal doesn't change or the ticket prices don't change or the production
01:02:19
requirements don't change for New Zealand. If that's the case, you asking for trouble because New Zealand has
01:02:25
different pressures on us economically. So the ticket prices might might not be able to be the same. We don't have as
01:02:30
much production in New Zealand. But if you want to emulate Australia, it's costly. Um a and uh you know I if you're
01:02:39
going to make a deal for New Zealand the same as a deal for Brisbane, you're asking for trouble cuz Oakland is not
01:02:45
Brisbane. >> Yeah. Right. >> And so my feeling is that that and I'm is that the deals for New Zealand should
01:02:54
be created in New Zealand and made for New Zealand. >> We got to claim back the NZ.
01:02:59
>> Who who does that come down to? Does the artist need to have a say in this or is
01:03:02
it um >> um >> artist management or promoters overseas being >> No, it's it's well well it starts off
01:03:11
with a manager saying to his agent I want to come and play uh Australasia or Australia probably
01:03:20
Australia >> and the agent will go cool I'll talk to the one of the big big three promoters
01:03:25
be Frontier Live Nation or or TG and and see what they will offer. Um, and so it's really, so it's really the agent
01:03:34
who's sitting in the middle of the deal and they'll want to get the most money they possibly can. If
01:03:40
>> if an artist really wanted to come to NZ, say we use Taylor Swift as an example cuz it's someone that everyone
01:03:44
knows and I think maybe 10,000 New Zealanders flew to Australia to see one of her shows. If she really wanted to
01:03:49
come here, she'd find a way, right? >> Of course. >> But, you know, but but I don't know how
01:03:54
many times I've said this. She didn't play Perth. >> She didn't play Adelaide. Didn't play
01:03:57
Brisbane. So why would she play Oakland? M >> I mean there it's not that far to fly.
01:04:03
It's it's easy to fly from Oakland to to to Sydney or Melbourne and from Perth, >> you know. So, you know, that's a really
01:04:10
bad example. It's been talked about a lot. Particularly Eden Parker always talk about, you know, we should have
01:04:13
come and played here. Wasn't going to happen. Not going to happen. Um >> how do how do you how do you feel that?
01:04:19
Does it like does it frustrate you or do you think this is just going to get worse and worse? No, the frustration is
01:04:25
really when you when you know you know when an artist could come here and do something and they don't for whatever
01:04:32
reason. I mean someone's made a decision. It's probably not doesn't happen in Australia. It probably happens
01:04:37
with a primary agent somewhere and you know saying no no we'll just play Australia because we can we we'll make
01:04:42
more money there or whatever. Don't really want to pay New Zealand. That's the manager or the artist says hang on.
01:04:46
I've got the itinerary here. Why don't we play New Zealand? >> I hear I hear it's a great place which
01:04:51
it is. So then it it'll get put put in. When it gets put in, my argument is well, it should be put put on the on the
01:04:58
terms that New Zealand can handle. >> Yeah. >> Kind regards. >> Yeah. [laughter]
01:05:04
Kind regards. I know. I think that's Yeah. The one one thing people like about you, you've got, you know, you've
01:05:09
got very firm opinions and they're back they're backed up with like decades of experience.
01:05:13
>> You're like, you know what you're talking about. Um, >> when did you first see or hear about
01:05:19
Lord? Do you remember your first did you meet her before you saw her live? >> Well, my wife Helen, she heard a demo uh
01:05:27
and she said to me, "Oh, I've got this girl Ellis on." She said, "You know, I've sent her a note back saying, "Come
01:05:33
come and meet meet with us." And in between the time that she Helen sent that note to her, um, someone else got
01:05:41
involved and and I think probably Scott McGloin got involved at Universal. First
01:05:46
time I met her was at the recording studio in our building. We have a studio downstairs and she was recording there.
01:05:52
She was like 17 or something. She was wonderful. >> Yeah. >> Lovely. >> Yeah. Could you tell she was something
01:05:57
special when you first met her? >> Um, no. I couldn't really but but um you know loyal was [snorts] royal. Sorry.
01:06:03
Loyal. >> Royals uh was um something special and that colored the the view. Uh and the maturity on that
01:06:15
was just something else. M >> and then we we Dave Monroe from our office. He was he uh Scott McGloin
01:06:24
appointed him as the agent and he started to work with him. We started to do the first shows and then it all sort
01:06:28
of it blew up around the world and and uh I remember they came to us and said, "Oh, we want we want to do a New Zealand
01:06:37
tour. Um we want you to do it." It's like, "Okay, great." So I said, "Well, this this is the offer." He said, "No,
01:06:43
we want four times that to do the tour." I said, "Well, I'm not comfortable offering that money." So, so they said,
01:06:49
"Okay, we're going to go to Frontier." And we're going to ask them. And they said, "Yeah." So, we did a joint venture
01:06:55
together, Frontier and Eckles. Um >> Um, but that happens quite a lot that, you know, all of a sudden it it blows up
01:07:02
and you, you know, it's just, it's just the >> deep pockets required. >> Um, but we've been involved in most of
01:07:09
the tours she's done except for the last one. >> Yeah. So, how does that work? um that
01:07:14
like that back end stuff. So they come to you and they say we want x amount of money and then she gets a she gets like
01:07:19
a flat fee, right? Like how do you make your money? >> Oh um >> so say say I'm spending 250 bucks on a
01:07:25
concert ticket. >> It's very hard. >> How does the pie get how does how does the pie get split?
01:07:30
>> Well because because it's so competitive with promoters and agents agents are
01:07:35
being the kind of people they are the actual bit for the promoters gets produced red produced reduced produced
01:07:40
reduced. Um, so it's really it's really, you know, quantity um that that gives you some sort of bottom line. Um, but
01:07:49
it's hard. Um, yeah. >> So, so you're taking a lot of risk for a smaller reward than ever.
01:07:55
>> Yeah. Yeah. But your question about the artists is that how it normally works is
01:07:59
that they get paid a guarantee versus a percentage of the net profit, whichever is the greater.
01:08:07
>> Oh, okay. a guarantee versus a percentage of the net profit, whichever is the greater.
01:08:13
>> So it might be a 8515, it might be a 9010, it might be a 972.5. I mean, that gets crazy. So, you know,
01:08:22
Rolling Stones, from what I hear, this is not I've never seen this. What I hear is the deals they did was that, you
01:08:29
know, you can get a piece of the merchandising. That's it. We're taking 100%. >> But, you know, good on them.
01:08:37
Well, the the the tongue is iconic. There's probably a bit of money in the merch using that probably change now.
01:08:42
It's probably, you know, you got to pay I whatever don't know. >> Well, um what about 660? When did you
01:08:47
when did you first stumble across them? >> Were they already established Denedian
01:08:52
band when you >> um Yeah. No, they I mean I came I saw them play at a club in Christ Church um
01:08:59
which the club the Bedford kind of fell down the earthquake. saw that and then I
01:09:04
heard that uh Campbell Smith and that his crew were going to manage them and then Teresa who was the agent appointed
01:09:12
me as No, Teresa who was the manager for CRS appointed me as the agent. [snorts]
01:09:17
Uh I think that lasted a week. >> Um Theresa Patterson we're talking about appointed me as the agent and fired me
01:09:24
after a week. [laughter] Um some sort of record I think. Um hi Theresa. How are you? No no no offense.
01:09:30
No, no grudge. It's all right. Um and then uh they went on on their way and then the the relationship between Teresa
01:09:38
and and 660 um failed for whatever reason. >> Dave Monroe from our office um um picked
01:09:44
them up as agent >> uh and has been for the last 15 years or whatever. So we've been through the
01:09:49
whole ride with them. >> You see you do all their all their live shows. >> Yeah. Um
01:09:55
yeah. One of the one of them that stands out is the uh the Western Springs show um where you sold out Western what what
01:10:01
were your expectations with that? Did did you did you think they could sell it out?
01:10:05
>> Well, what what happened was um me and and uh Dave, we took a step back. We went and saw them uh at at Atomic Cafe
01:10:12
in Kingsland. And they had just done a three power stations and sold them out and we said, "Look, you should go and do
01:10:21
a Spark now, reduce Mode Spark," which is about 5 a half thousand. Half the band went, "Great idea." And half went,
01:10:29
"No, people think we're wankers." No, no, you should do it. So, so um Machu, who was one of the guys who said, "No,
01:10:36
we should go and do that." That's what we did. and sold out. Bang. >> Okay, so we're away here.
01:10:42
>> We did a we did a small arena tour of New Zealand and then John Riley the manager
01:10:50
he I think he suggested or we or Dave did on it to who quite did it but we we would have a go at Western Springs. We
01:10:57
take the band off the road for a year or nine months and just do Western Springs
01:11:01
make a point. And so we went to uh um Western Springs, the people who run it, and said, "Okay, we want we want a deal
01:11:09
where we want a free rental to x number of tickets, and then we'll then we'll start paying you." And they said, "No."
01:11:18
So So [laughter] I tried every trick in the book to try and try and get a deal that was didn't
01:11:23
put too much pressure on us, and they said no again. So then a different guy comes in at James Parkinson and says,
01:11:32
"No, no, this is a great idea. Let's we'll do it." We go, "Okay." So, so we were we were pretty sure we'd get
01:11:39
15,000. We were pretty confident about that. Um, so and and then we priced it right. I think we price it like maybe
01:11:48
$69.90 on the field and maybe $59.90 on the terraces and $49.90 in the gods in the
01:11:57
onment >> and so we so okay we're up and people thought and no no one want to touch
01:12:03
sponsorship they all thought we were crazy western springs you're dreaming so we're in the office pre-sale and a
01:12:11
pre-sale is where it's online pre-sale and you're watching it live watching the s and it goes on sale bank and someone
01:12:18
yells out a th00and 2,000 3 and a half thousand yelling across the office 4,000 7,000 we go my
01:12:26
hair on the back stand we're all just shaking with go what's going on here 10 minutes in 20,000 done we're 20,000 the
01:12:34
pre-sale is done and we're just like what happened our lives just changed and we're all looking at each other
01:12:43
going wow what What happened here? So two days later we go for the on sale. Now normally your pre-sale is hot. Your
01:12:51
on sale is nothing great. Same thing happens in 10 minutes we are done. 50,000 done
01:12:59
as we're all just staring at each other, wow, I need a drink. [laughter] Um and were you like bewildered at the
01:13:10
time the day? A little bit. Who's there? Is the band there with you watching the
01:13:13
screen or >> I think the band may have been with us for the on sale. They weren't there for
01:13:17
the pre-sale there for the on sale and you know we're all just stunned. Um and you know and I I rec talking to people
01:13:24
overseas going you you did what? 50,000 for a local act. You did what? Yeah, we did. Um but then we had to do the show.
01:13:35
[laughter] >> Oh, the show was amazing, right? Yeah. What do you mean? But then we had to do
01:13:39
the show. Well, because you can't put on a half hour show to 50,000 people. You have to invest. And you know, the band
01:13:45
spent well in excess of a million dollars actually on the production, you know. Um they they they understood it
01:13:52
and um and um I think the day the day before we played, John Riley was talking to me and
01:14:02
Dave and said, "Look, you know, we really got to come back and and do this again and we we're going to we're going
01:14:08
to allow people to buy tickets for the next show immediately." We went, "James, we're coming to see you." So, so D the
01:14:15
day before the show, Dave and I got to see James Parkerson at organ and rebook the show, redo the deal for the next
01:14:22
year and away we go. So, we were there and the next year sold out again. Yeah. 50,000 again. [sighs]
01:14:30
>> You you must love proving people wrong, whether it's like um wrong, you know,
01:14:35
Tim Finn and Dave. >> What What shits me is is sometimes the lack of lack of belief in the local
01:14:41
artists. the lack of belief. We had information I guess we were privy to, but you know, we we all put our balls on
01:14:48
the line a fair bit to actually get to where we got to and then to take the next step, you know, that the audacity,
01:14:54
you know, taking the next step. [laughter] [clears throat] Why not? >> Did you Did you stay for the whole show
01:15:00
that night? >> I did. [laughter] >> I did. I did. >> Did Did you Did you and Helen become
01:15:07
like rich as a result of that show? >> No. >> Was that No. >> No. No, it was um you know, we priced it
01:15:14
right. >> Um and we priced it to sell out um to be honest and but we still had to sell the
01:15:20
tickets. People got to put money on the table. So So and production costs were high. You know, the the band's on a a
01:15:26
good deal on a good good percentage of the profit. So, you know, they got the line share of the profit. We did okay.
01:15:32
Yeah. So, I'm not complaining. >> But you you taking these big swings, eh? Yeah. U you know, there's that saying
01:15:36
high risk, high reward. >> Well, you know, but the business that's part of the it's part of the long game.
01:15:41
If you have enough experience, you should know really whether it's going to work or not. You should know that
01:15:46
>> because you've been doing it for a long time >> and you know, so that's we were we were
01:15:51
>> we were betting on the fact we knew what we were doing. >> What was the worst case scenario with
01:15:56
that? Like you talked before about Spark Arena, how you can sort of pull the curtains down and have 5,000 people
01:16:01
there and it doesn't look like a fail. >> You can't hide at Western. No. If you got even if you got 10,000 people there,
01:16:06
it's still going to it's going to look terrible, eh? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to look great
01:16:10
at 10,000. I mean, it's possible, but you know. >> Did they give you sleepless nights
01:16:14
before the pre-sale or No, >> I was pretty excit excited because we knew the band had a huge fan base,
01:16:21
online fan base, and >> we could just feel it. You could feel it. You could always touch it, you know,
01:16:26
the the expectation and success was in the air. >> Didn't quite expect how hard it bit.
01:16:33
>> Why Why are they such an outlier? Like, you've been in the New Zealand music scene for 50 years. Why is why has no
01:16:38
one else done it? Will and will any can anyone duplicate it and do it again? >> Well, maybe they could have done it, but
01:16:44
they didn't have the confidence to actually back themselves to do it. But with 660, I think a whole generation
01:16:52
bit. A whole generation took them as theirs. They never really been media darlings at
01:16:59
all, but I think it was a was a it was a band of the people >> and the people spoke. Bang. There we go.
01:17:07
So, >> what what do you mean they've never been media darlings? >> Well, I think I think that um
01:17:14
that there's a bit of tall poppy. >> Oh, okay. I see what you mean. Oh, like Simon Sweetman doing a review calling
01:17:21
them barbecue reggae or >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Terrific. That's That makes us all feel
01:17:26
great. Thank you, Simon. That's terrific. Thanks for that. That's really good. um you know or I read an article and
01:17:33
someone in the Herald saying that that um when you broke this their songs down um there wasn't much to them and there
01:17:40
wasn't much skill involved. It's like hey sunshine this is this is show business. This is rock and roll.
01:17:45
>> They did it. They appealed to their market. Now you can break the songs down as much as you want but you know they
01:17:53
did it. >> Um and and >> they're still doing it. >> They're still doing it. Yeah.
01:17:57
>> I so many hit songs. I heard you do a similar podcast like this with uh Graeme
01:18:01
Hill and he talked about um 616. He said some of their songs are like pretty pretty pedestrian or boring and you
01:18:07
chimed in and said, "Well, that might be what you think." [laughter] I thought it
01:18:10
was a really good response. Do you think part of it is um you see all over the world like whether it's with Nickelback
01:18:15
or Coldplay or even Ed Sharon now when when a band gets to a certain level like people like start to [ __ ] on them a bit.
01:18:21
Do you think there's an element of that >> just because they don't know them? It's
01:18:24
because they just they just decide that they want to be negative. Well, um, if you're going to be negative towards
01:18:30
them, that's negative towards everyone really because, you know, why be negative towards them or LA or or Mara
01:18:36
Williams or Pat Freddy's Drop? I mean, you know, don't be be supportive. >> Take an American approach. You know,
01:18:41
Americans very supportive of their own. We we should be more do more of that and
01:18:46
be proud of that. Um, >> you know, the thing is with with with 660, the band actually backed
01:18:51
themselves. They work really hard at what they do. They work really hard at their at, you know, at making making
01:18:58
skilling up and and making what they do better and better and better by putting the the hard yards in.
01:19:05
>> Um, and believe me, they they had some big disappointments, you know, um, like
01:19:09
like we all do. But, [snorts] um, I admire them. I think they've they've they've handled it really well.
01:19:14
>> What what are what are some of their big disappointments like in terms of adversity? What have they
01:19:18
>> Oh, you know, I think some albums have not quite hit the mark. I think there been there've been probably some
01:19:24
international stuff that hasn't quite worked for them as they wanted to, but >> you know they are probably
01:19:30
you know in Australia [clears throat] very few very few Australian bands would do the business that they do in
01:19:36
Australia but the Australian business ignores them cuz they don't want to accept it. And you know, now you got
01:19:43
things like Don Dollar who, you know, finally Australia's got one that can sell out a stadium. Finally, you know,
01:19:49
cuz Midnight all didn't. Cole Chisel didn't. They all played arenas. None of them played stadiums, but now they got
01:19:56
one. >> Uh, so now they they can now they understand what it feels like. >> Yeah. Well, people like to use the
01:20:02
saying like it's some sort of an insult. Um, you know, big fish in a small pond,
01:20:05
but is there anything wrong with being like a massive fish in a small pond? >> Yes, there is. Because hard to keep
01:20:10
going. >> Oh, okay. because you run out of pond, >> you know, you get get to a certain size
01:20:15
and you run out of out of food. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Oh, [snorts] that's interesting. Yeah. I
01:20:19
didn't think of it that way. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. So, after the Western Spring stuff, you you did it again. You backed
01:20:25
660 to do Eden Park. >> Um now, I suppose there's elements of that, like it's a new stadium. There haven't
01:20:31
been many shows at Eden Park, so there's that level of excitement, you know. Um but also, it's a band that everyone's
01:20:37
seen multiple times. And why why were you confident that was going to work? >> Oh, we were just we were we were full of
01:20:43
ourselves, weren't we? But not really. No, [laughter] no, no. It was we had how Mick Thornner from Eden Park had had
01:20:50
come to us and said, you know, why don't we do this? We went, "Yeah, we'd like to
01:20:54
do this." And and um uh um we went in front of the beak uh the the committee um uh who was putting who's
01:21:07
giving uh the resource consent for Eden Park went in front and spoke in front of
01:21:10
them. I did and then banned it as well um maybe about two months before the show and then had to go through a
01:21:17
process to get resource consent. Well, five weeks before um we were going to announce we didn't
01:21:23
have resource consent. Uh and we went to our production people and said, "Well, we don't have resource consent, but you
01:21:28
know, we need to start doing stuff." And they said, "No, don't. You you're making a huge mistake
01:21:34
here. Do not do this." So, we did it anyway. Um, and uh, and and Nick Son, I got to say, he got someone from council
01:21:43
to really fast track the resource consent and it came through just, you know, we went on sale five weeks
01:21:51
>> before trying to sell 50,000 tickets. It's insane, stupid. >> But we were we were single-mindedly
01:21:58
focused on doing it because we thought first act in Eden Park is going to sell out. We're going to do this. And we did.
01:22:07
>> But yeah, they've done so many firsts and I I I saw you at um 1NZ Stadium in Christ Church just a couple of weeks ago
01:22:13
for the concert of a lifetime. Um >> yeah. >> Yeah. Did you think you'd be having wins
01:22:18
this big like at the age of 70 71? [sighs] >> Well, if you're going to have have them
01:22:24
you should probably have them when you're a bit oldest because you understand it. You probably the right
01:22:28
time right time. But um with that one, you know, we wanted to do something special for Christ Church. And you know,
01:22:35
to the band's credit, they they didn't think that they should necessarily do it by themselves and they wanted, you know,
01:22:40
the the next biggest Austral New Zealand >> uh you know, draw to actually be with
01:22:45
them. And and that's where Symphony came from with Jo and David Higgins and Co. And then then uh you know Kaye and and
01:22:53
um and Cassie um uh and Castway all all Christ Church base artists um added to the bill and um it really became
01:23:03
something and and you know we really did not have any idea quite how it would go
01:23:09
cuz it wasn't like we were on tour. It was a one-off thing once in a lifetime >> and it was just magic was in the air. It
01:23:17
was just the venue worked well. 37,000 people came in and went out. All the artists from Castaway to Cassie to Kaye
01:23:26
and um were were incredible and put an extra effort. Um punters loved it. And then you know 660 then Symphony and then
01:23:35
the combination was just >> Yeah. >> I can't explain it. It was just like there was another element there at work.
01:23:43
>> Yeah. Kayie Bell, she was I thought she was phenomenal. like the the opening that she did, she had the Crusaders
01:23:48
music and some behind the scenes stuff going on. It was it was a great Are you sort of like a mentor to these artists?
01:23:55
Do they do they come to you for advice or do you offer advice even if if it's not asked for? Um yeah, I I try to I
01:24:02
mean certainly you know with with with Cassie we have and definitely with Kaylee
01:24:05
>> definitely um you know to get them going and you know it takes some advice and
01:24:09
uses some money to get things going and then once it gets going it's selffulfilling you know and that's she's
01:24:15
um I I don't claim anything with with Katie. She's so so motivated. She doesn't stop you know she deserves
01:24:23
everything that she's going to get. >> Yeah. She's worked so hard. So, some of the international acts that
01:24:28
you've um had a hand in bringing to New Zealand include I'm going to just drop some names here. Just a few of them. Ed
01:24:33
Sheeran, Foo Fighters, The Stones, Bruce Springsteen, The Eagles, Timberlake. Do
01:24:38
you when when they come here, do you have anything to do with the artist? Do you meet them or do you have you got no
01:24:42
interest in sort of meeting them? >> Uh I Well, firstly, um I should say that um those the promoter for all those
01:24:50
shows is Frontier Touring Company. Um have an Australian office and a New Zealand office. Uh, I represent them in
01:24:57
New Zealand. Um, so it's not my money, it's that that they front it. Um, but I have not I would really rather not meet
01:25:04
the artist. Um, I I give that a wide birth. >> Really? Why is that? >> Well, because because
01:25:12
um they don't really want to meet me. [laughter] They're their own bubble. They've come
01:25:18
to New Zealand to play a show. Um, if there was an opportunity, if they wanted to, you know, have dinner with a local
01:25:23
promoter, yes, we'd do that. But it's very rare that happens. I don't need to meet them,
01:25:27
>> you know. I don't need to. I just want to make sure that they get looked after
01:25:30
and the show goes well. It's kind of the same a little bit with the New Zealand artists as well. I don't like to get too
01:25:36
close, you know. I just I do my job. They do their job. Probably because I've been in bands for so long that I kind of
01:25:41
understand what it's like to be touring all the time. And you don't necessarily want people coming in from the outside.
01:25:46
>> So, oh, so you understand that you you're potentially a pain in the ass and they're being polite.
01:25:50
>> Pain in the ass, but it's just uncomfortable. you know, you just, you know, you know, I I my advice to anyone
01:25:58
who gets who is going to meet someone in a band is to watch the show and pick something out um and you get to meet the
01:26:08
guitar player, go, "Hey, that solo you played in that excellent song that was that was how come you were playing up
01:26:13
the up the frets like that?" And I'll go, "Well, he actually watched the show." Well, she watched the show.
01:26:18
That's different. >> And you get a good answer. Um, I remember actually um we we met Bruce
01:26:25
Springsteen one night at at uh after his show and it was it was an after show party but there weren't many people
01:26:32
there. It was just really our office and and Bruce had come down cuz the manager
01:26:36
just said come down. So he came down so I thought I'd go and talk to him. So I I
01:26:39
talked to him and I said to him I said I noticed in in your set you put your finger in the air and pointed up. He
01:26:44
said I said what was that? He said that was to go to I was telling the whole band to go to the root chord,
01:26:51
>> right? So he was he was talking his language. It was like >> if you can somehow get into their head
01:26:57
that you watch the show um they'll look upon you a bit differently. Not like can
01:27:01
I have an autograph or you know >> how [laughter] are you? >> Oh what do you think of New Zealand?
01:27:08
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um I'd be there's that saying never meet your heroes. I'd be reluctant
01:27:14
to meet Springsteen cuz if I I'm such a big fan if I couldn't on a bad day or a bad moment, it would just crush me.
01:27:19
>> It was lovely. >> Yeah. >> Unbelievable. So, um the show that he came here and he did a version of Royals
01:27:26
like did someone ask you do you have anything to do with that? Does someone say what's his what's a song he should
01:27:30
be doing? >> No, he would he would his people would go to to the label probably. There's
01:27:35
often often there are connections that the band will make with New Zealand that don't involve the promoter. They might
01:27:42
go through the label and do some things like I don't know get a >> get married welcome or um get a choir or
01:27:50
you know or whatever. So we don't necessarily get involved but we can do. >> [ __ ] that gave me goosebumps that did
01:27:56
when he sang royals. It was awesome. >> Um what's something about the concert world
01:28:02
that would genu genuinely shock normal people like a say backstage or at a venue? Is
01:28:09
there anything in particular? >> Oh dear. What shock them? >> Is it just is it just how boring it is?
01:28:16
You know, people have this aspiration to get an access all areas pass or >> I guess I guess yeah, I guess that
01:28:21
nowadays that's true. I mean, you know, in in the older days a bit different, bit more wild, but no, there's not much
01:28:27
sort of carry on backstage anymore. It's quite it's quite >> it's quite um professional.
01:28:32
Professional, that's that's the word. >> Yeah. >> Um so it's not, you know, um it's not
01:28:37
crazy. Um, no. I shock. Shock's a big word. No, I I think I think we all try not to shock.
01:28:44
>> Um, [snorts] if you could relive one tour era again purely for the chaos and the stories,
01:28:51
which one would it be? >> Oh, [groaning] 70s, 80s, 90s. >> Uh, no. Be the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. We had
01:29:00
some great touring moments in the 80s. Incredible. Yeah, >> that was with the Angels. Yeah. Amazing.
01:29:06
What goes on tour stays on tour or [laughter] past? >> No, no, like I said before, now we
01:29:10
weren't that kind of we weren't that kind of band really, but but there some just phenomenal
01:29:16
band audience catharticism that just you would go what happened there? It was just something incredible
01:29:24
happened there, >> you know, just the audience and band becomes one. Sometimes that happens.
01:29:29
It's like, wow, just and it happened with that band a lot, you know, cuz it's so brutal. was a brutal band. Very
01:29:35
physical, you know. >> Yeah. And that angel song. Um, Am I ever going to see your face again? It's like
01:29:40
an unofficial Australian anthem. What's the What's the thing that the crowd sings? The
01:29:44
>> No way. Get [ __ ] [ __ ] off. Well, you see, I've been thinking about this because because because they're actually
01:29:51
actually they're doing a a 50th anniversary of that song. And I was reading what they're putting out about
01:29:57
it and going, "Just tell the truth, guys. This is all bullshit." You know, the truth of the matter is that is that
01:30:05
it's plagiarized from another song. And there was a court case went on and for a while the band
01:30:16
had to pay this other artist royalties. Um, and then because of that, the band didn't want to play the song.
01:30:27
>> Mhm. >> They didn't want to play it. And it's really the audience has kind of
01:30:32
driven it over the years to because it's such a band audience thing. >> Yeah. >> Um and and everyone's kind of put the
01:30:39
the darker side of that song to bed and that's fine. >> Um but [clears throat] there's is quite
01:30:45
a big story around that song that no one really knows about. So >> what was it plagiarized from?
01:30:51
>> I don't want to say. >> Yeah. Right. Is is it public knowledge like like the Ed Sheeran song shape of
01:30:56
you or not? >> No, it was all done behind closed doors. You're honor. [laughter]
01:31:01
Wow. Um but I know cuz I was around at the time and um and and you know it it most of the stuff was put out about that
01:31:11
song was crap. Um uh but the first time I saw the chant that happens there was in a place called Miljura in South
01:31:18
Australia and it was obviously a DJ had come up with this idea and and just spread across Australia like wildfire
01:31:24
and around the world. >> Um but anyway, I probably said too much about that anyway and it's it's it's
01:31:31
just great what's happened with it. Um let's forget about the nasty past >> and let's focus on the lovely future.
01:31:38
>> Yeah. In 2021, um you yourself and Helen uh were named the best promoters worldwide by um Pollster, which is like
01:31:45
an industry magazine. Um obviously co had something to do with it. Um but also you weren't you weren't sitting on your
01:31:52
hands or resting on your laurels, so you put yourself in the frame to >> that was the number one promoter in the
01:31:57
world based on on um uh ticket sales and income. >> Mhm. >> Uh and that was because New Zealand was
01:32:05
still open when 660 played. It was I think it was the first or second western springs and that the gross on that pole
01:32:14
star is based on gross ticket sales. I think we did a we did Oakland and we did Deneden. So the gross was like several
01:32:21
million dollars and then other shows we've done. We were the number one promoter in the world for two
01:32:27
consecutive quarters. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> It's it's quite neat. E it's you take
01:32:34
it. >> Yeah. Well, I pissed myself going what? What? remember the guy called me. He
01:32:38
said uh from Polestar he said Mr. Reckles said yeah. He said it from Polestar here. He said um just want to
01:32:44
let you know you're in the top five promoters of the world. I went what? He said yeah by you know by by gross and
01:32:50
ticket sales went okay. He said he said he said um do you want to take an ad out
01:32:54
and then the magazine? I said no. [laughter] I said well where have we come? He said
01:33:01
we were top three. I went okay. I said well well actually you're number one. [laughter]
01:33:06
TAKE THE [ __ ] HEAD. SO, so but the number one was challenged by some other people so who didn't like the idea. Um
01:33:16
but it was dismissed and we were number one for it's in I've got charts of it is
01:33:21
yeah >> have you got like the actual award framed somewhere is there just a chart
01:33:26
says you know pole star you know top promoter in you know top 100 promoters in the world we're number one
01:33:32
>> that must have given you guys a real kick >> yeah it's like you know yeah it's it's
01:33:36
just too big to even contemplate >> it's sort of funny it was funny actually >> well and it was I mean it's factual it's
01:33:43
factual figures I can't take it away >> at the time you you watch some news channels like CNN or BBC and that they
01:33:49
had this footage of, you know, 660 playing this concert when the rest of the world was still locked down.
01:33:53
>> I know. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's pretty cool. >> Um, how do you measure success now? Has
01:33:59
has your definition of success changed over the years? >> Selling out a show. >> Is it still still? Yeah,
01:34:04
>> absolutely. Sell it out. A sellout's a sellout. It's what what drives the business. If you can sell out, you know,
01:34:10
a show with a show with Katy Bell or Codory or Mara Williams or Fat Freddy's Drop, that's a sellout. That's what you
01:34:16
want. You know, that's your measure. >> What personally or are they somewhat closely intertwined? Your you know, your
01:34:21
personal measure of success or definition of success. >> I think I think the personal measure is,
01:34:26
you know, what was your plan? What what did you try and do? And you pulled it off. So that's, you know,
01:34:32
>> Yeah. >> when you are um playing Oh, >> there is a measure of that by the way.
01:34:36
The measure is the box office. M the the the box office is a great moderator. >> All right. [clears throat]
01:34:44
>> There's nowhere to hide, is there? >> No. >> Where do you see the New Zealand concert
01:34:48
industry in say 5 to 10 years? And what opportunities excite you the most? >> I would hope that we get to claim back
01:34:57
the NZ. Um and uh I would hope that um we are able to bring some more uh young talent up
01:35:13
through the ranks uh and take them to the world. Um kind of New Zealanders doing it for New
01:35:20
Zealand. And you know, I know that that's probably that's probably um you know, um uh kind of a wild idea, but I
01:35:29
just think that we need to be um hold on to what we've got and and be proud of what we can do and work together. M
01:35:38
>> uh cuz I think New Zealand is is a is a strong um creative uh nation and creative musically and we have something
01:35:48
to offer and I think more and more and more with a Polynesian Asian um uh Pakiha one of a better word influences
01:35:58
melding together there's going to be some really interesting things come out and it's it's unique to New Zealand.
01:36:03
um and then you know being able to um make the New Zealand market attractive to the rest of the world and successful
01:36:12
that they actually come here and make money. >> Uh but that's going to take some real
01:36:17
real um uh deep thought about how that can happen and understanding the parameters uh about playing New Zealand
01:36:23
and understanding New Zealand as a country. It's the A&Z territory but NZ is a country. M
01:36:31
>> [ __ ] You're passionate about NZ, aren't you? >> Yeah, I am. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I Yeah, it comes through in everything
01:36:36
you say. Do you um will you ever retire? [laughter] >> Or would you like to? >> No.
01:36:42
>> Would would you be Yeah. What would your dream death be? Would be dying at the
01:36:45
office or dying at a a sellout gig? >> Um [snorts] no. No. No. I don't think so. I don't
01:36:50
know what my dream death would be. [laughter] It's a question I had already considered to be honest. Um, but look,
01:36:56
so so long as I have the faculties uh to be able to, you know, understand what I'm doing and and to articulate it
01:37:04
and to, you know, bring other people along with me, um, I'll be happy. Once I lose that, then I would probably just
01:37:10
sort of fade away and and go go and fish somewhere or grow vegetables or do something. But, [snorts]
01:37:15
>> um, you know, uh, uh, I can't see any end coming. M >> yeah it's you and I talked about this
01:37:21
just before the podcast started and I was like you know I saw myself retiring at 50 and then you get to 50 and you
01:37:26
realize what what what am I going to do? >> You're exactly the same at 70. So I I
01:37:31
see you and I can see like myself 20 years in the in the future. You need >> you need a reason to get out of bed in
01:37:36
the morning, don't you? >> Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um do you think about legacy at all?
01:37:42
Like what sort of legacy like when it's all said and done, how do you want to be
01:37:46
remembered? Ah, I don't know. I mean, uh, no, I don't. Um, I don't think that that's important to me at all. Uh, I
01:37:53
like the sort of what's happening in the in the present. Um, you know, obviously
01:37:58
with my with my my family, um, I want to, you know, support them as best I can. So, that's as much legacy as I I
01:38:05
would really want as far as staff's concerned um or my partners. Um, just to be a good partner.
01:38:11
>> [snorts] >> Um I mean a business partner um and uh um you know be successful and try and
01:38:18
use my uh knowledge and experience to make the business better. You know >> that's as bad as it goes.
01:38:26
>> What are your biggest fears? >> H your biggest fears are failing. >> You know fear of failure I think is very
01:38:34
prevalent in the music industry. you you you've had enough success and as a consequence of that enough failure to
01:38:40
to know it's never fatal though. >> No. Well, it could be one day, but no hope. [laughter] Uh um everything's a
01:38:47
pun. >> So, you know, releasing an album, uh releasing a single um >> you know, signing a publishing deal, uh
01:38:54
doing a merchandising deal, um on both sides, whether making the t-shirts or selling them or profitering it,
01:39:00
profiting in them somehow, it's all a punt or, you know, putting a show on sale or touring. It's all it's all it's
01:39:06
all nerves about all that stuff. >> Um I don't know it's unique uh to our business, but it's every facet of it is
01:39:14
a punt. >> The the career that you've chosen, it's a career of um massive massive highs and
01:39:19
massive massive lows. Um we we talked about your old bandmate [snorts] Mike Chun before and his agrophobia back in
01:39:25
the 70s. How's how's as a consequence of the job you've done, how's your mental health been over the years?
01:39:32
Um I think yeah I've certainly had moments when I have not enjoyed it and that's mainly a lot in a recording
01:39:42
studio. Um but that's that's another podcast them that's hours of >> um [laughter]
01:39:49
politics when you're you know in a in a in a in a big band has got a >> a big investment from a record company
01:39:57
and a lot on the line. you know, making being creative is kind of very difficult
01:40:02
sometimes >> and that was my really did not enjoy that. Um, and probably as close as I
01:40:07
came to, you know, giving up a few times was around that, but unfortunately didn't. Um,
01:40:14
>> yeah. And then I think perhaps in the early days in New Zealand where I was just sort of finding my way going,
01:40:19
should have already made the right call here coming back to New Zealanders, you know, but um, you plow on
01:40:25
>> and we done fine. one foot in front of the other and things just always always
01:40:28
seem to work out. >> Well, yeah. I think Yeah. >> I think what what I what I found is that
01:40:33
when I uh am, you know, am sober and have been for a while that good things happen.
01:40:40
>> Um if I've um you know, if I'm not, then uh you know, it's not it's it's okay,
01:40:46
but it's not not not so good because you miss things. You just you're not as alert as what you could be to things.
01:40:51
>> What's your relationship like with booze these days? I I'm going to keep one away
01:40:56
from it if I can. I'll probably Yeah. You know, it it it really >> honestly it'll be maybe once a week that
01:41:02
I have a drink. Um but I prefer not not to at all. >> Um >> yeah. No, no one ever It's funny. I had
01:41:09
like >> But I had a good crack at it, though. [laughter] >> Really good. I mean, I was really good
01:41:14
at it. No, no one ever No one ever stops drinking goes, "Oh, god." Yeah. No, it [ __ ] my life up. because so much
01:41:21
you say they say I stopped drinking. I said, "Oh, you're so easy." Yeah. Well, for how long? I spend hours now.
01:41:26
[laughter] >> Well, I knew um early on that you can't be much of a drinker these days cuz
01:41:31
you're not getting up at 6:00 a.m. and you're banging the drums or meditating and doing those things if you if you've
01:41:36
had like a bottle of wine the night before. >> Oh, you feel [ __ ] out, wouldn't you?
01:41:39
>> Yeah. >> You just can't keep it up. Although Winston Peter seems to. He's in his late
01:41:42
70s. I think he still hits the scotch. >> Does he? [laughter] I don't know. I don't know.
01:41:47
>> I don't know. It gets harder and harder though I find. Yeah. >> Um what what do you like with
01:41:52
vulnerability? Like if if if things if you're not you're where you should be mentally and you you know are there have
01:41:57
you got a good crew of people that you can talk to? What do you prefer to sort of
01:42:01
>> everyone's vulnerable? Yes, I do. I mean I have I have um yeah someone that I
01:42:06
I've talked to or three people actually that I talked to uh in various levels. One's a one's a older family member
01:42:13
who's been in business for was in business for a long time. in fact was very involved with Coca-Cola uh and
01:42:19
taking Coca-Cola to to Russia and China and um uh and then there's um another person who uh is another good friend um
01:42:30
uh acquaintance really more than anything um and then a professional person who I talk to from time to time
01:42:36
um >> like a therapist. >> Yeah. Yeah. Kind of. But it's more it's more me me talking and him asking me
01:42:45
questions and then they seem to get more out of it than me. [laughter] >> Well, if they ask you the right
01:42:51
questions, you sort of hear yourself talking out loud and you come up with a solution yourself.
01:42:55
>> What it does exactly right, you come up with a solution and it's good for business and it's not about, oh, my
01:43:01
terrible childhood blah blah. So, I've got this problem here. What do you think? They go, well, have you thought
01:43:06
about this way? Go, oh, okay. and oh okay that's ah cool it's clear in my head now thank you that's what that's
01:43:12
about so yeah therapy I don't know if it's therapy but it's certainly um being able to express yourself openly about a
01:43:18
problem that you got [sighs] >> well thanks for sharing that stuff I mean 20 years ago we couldn't have had a
01:43:24
conversation like this I wouldn't think it would be too too embarrassing to talk
01:43:27
about talking about someone about your feelings it's just not something but imagine the the anguish and heartache it
01:43:33
would have saved your mate Mike in the 70s if he was able to chat to someone about it Um, what are your best and
01:43:39
worst habits? >> Oh, I change my mind a lot. Um, that's um, and it's >> Is that a good one? Is that a bad habit?
01:43:48
>> No. [laughter] >> Just annoying to the people around you? >> Oh, it's annoying to me, too. Um,
01:43:53
>> yeah. >> Um [snorts] Um, that's probably my my worst one. My best one is that I hope I'm um uh people
01:44:02
can rely on me >> and that, you know, I I do what I say I'm going to do. So >> yeah,
01:44:09
>> is is changing your mind a lot of is that doesn't seem too bad. >> Depends what it is, mate. [laughter]
01:44:15
Right now it's [ __ ] house on one particular thing, but anyway. >> Yeah. Do you have any regrets?
01:44:21
>> No. >> No. >> Um what about future goals? Like where do you see yourself at 80? Oh, I'd like
01:44:29
to see that, you know, I'd spend, you know, um watch the de development of my family, um my son and his wife and
01:44:37
partner and uh and um kids, um you know, watch them go and then with Helen and I
01:44:43
sort of >> looking after ourselves and you know, putting ourselves in a situation where
01:44:47
we just we be live a good life. Yeah. >> Um >> that's probably the goal there. Um
01:44:53
>> but that's I mean [ __ ] next stop 80. >> It's wild, eh? That's crazy. >> That's wild. But then you must see
01:44:59
people still performing like Yeah. Rod Stewart or MC Jagger and think, "Okay, that's the next that's the next
01:45:04
goalpost." >> Yeah. I think performing, it's funny that because I can I can be really
01:45:10
exhausted after a day's work, then I can go play drums for an hour and feel totally um you know, have so much energy
01:45:17
because it's a different part of the brain, I'm sure. So actually actually performing I think you can actually
01:45:23
actually get a lot out of it and actually do it because you got gratification of an audience. You got
01:45:28
the whole show thing going on show business. But you know in business it's different because you're often by
01:45:33
yourself. It's it's a it's kind of a >> it's a lonely thing sometimes. But but performing is uh is a different part of
01:45:41
your brain. So I think that as a performer you could go much longer than you can in business.
01:45:46
>> Right. I see. >> Yeah. I've I've never played an instrument in my life, but I I I imagine
01:45:51
when you're playing the drums, like you you you can't be thinking about any [ __ ]
01:45:54
that's gone on at work that day. [laughter] You got to be in the moment or if you got muscle memory, so you can
01:45:59
be thinking about other >> Well, well, no, you can you can be, but when but no, if you're if if that's
01:46:05
going on your head, you're in trouble. But you should what you should be doing is looking at the audience cuz it's a
01:46:10
show that you and watching other guys in the band >> cuz if you're playing drums, you can't
01:46:15
go anywhere. you're sitting there. So, you know, but they can. So, you know, there's that going on. So,
01:46:21
>> um that's what that's what's the exciting thing about playing a band. You've actually
01:46:26
>> written some songs. The punters have accepted it. They like it. They're buying tickets to your show. It's
01:46:32
getting bigger and bigger and bigger, you know, and it's just a good feeling. >> Yeah.
01:46:37
>> Yeah. It's a relationship that so few people would a relationship or dynamic that so few people would understand.
01:46:41
Yeah, >> I was thinking about this the other night in Christ Church when I was I was
01:46:44
a stage when 660 finished and they came off stage and they were all sweaty. Chris Chris M was holding a bottle of
01:46:50
red wine. [laughter] >> He was the the only one. But I I thought um must be an exhilarating feeling for
01:46:57
them that that only those guys can understand. They they go back to their room, it's just them, maybe a couple of
01:47:02
tag tag alongers, but it's um such a unique um and surreal thing to go through together.
01:47:08
>> They would never come down from that. I mean, I stood on that stage before the
01:47:11
punters came in and looked up >> and actually it felt quite intimate that that that stadium, but with people in
01:47:17
there and that the audience, you know, >> you know you got to perform, you know,
01:47:23
you got to put on a show cuz they are there watching and it's like if it and it >> they're so loud, you know, um and if you
01:47:30
pull it off, it's such a good feeling. [sighs and gasps] >> You you just light up when you're
01:47:35
talking about music, eh? All >> right. [laughter] in particular live music. You really do.
01:47:40
>> If if um if Helen and Matt were say in the room next door talking about you behind your back and I asked them for
01:47:45
three words to describe you like as a man, what would you hope those words would be?
01:47:51
>> Uh >> what would you like them to be? >> He's crazy. [laughter] >> No, but nice ones.
01:47:56
>> No, no. Crazy in a good way. um uh you know he if he's if he's you can't stop
01:48:03
him like if he's made up his mind to go somewhere even if held on might say no I
01:48:07
I'm going to do it anyway so they know that um but also you know loving that I'm you know that I'm there for them so
01:48:14
>> ultimately want to protect them you know ultimately yeah >> yeah I can tell as I said earlier when I
01:48:21
see you know you and Helen walking around concerts of you're often usually holding hands it's um speaks a lot
01:48:26
>> yeah about relationship Yeah. I think for me the ultimate thing ultimate thing
01:48:30
for me the you know the ultimate driver I suppose the primary primal driver is to protect my family.
01:48:36
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> By doing what I'm doing. So yeah. >> And you've done it
01:48:41
>> so far so good. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] [laughter] it up. >> And last one. Are you proud of yourself?
01:48:47
>> Yeah, I am. Yeah, I am. I am. I've done a lot of things. I've done a lot of things and and uh you just reminded me
01:48:53
reminded me of half of them. But um yeah and you know I think you know I've given
01:48:58
all to it and I still have a lot more to give and and enjoying it. So yeah I'm proud of it. Yeah.
01:49:04
>> Yeah. >> How's how's this been for you today as we wind up like reflecting on a you know
01:49:10
incredible sort of a career of two chapters really the music you know the onstage guy and the offstage guy. Both
01:49:16
sort of equal length chapters. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Is it nice to reflect? >> Uh yeah it's good. It's good. Um, I'll
01:49:23
probably go home tonight and think of a lot of different stories I could have told you, but um, no, I think it's been
01:49:27
good. I appreciate the opportunity. >> Yeah. Well, I appreciate you saying yes. It's been really nice to connect on this
01:49:32
level and I'm looking forward to sharing it. >> Am I prickly? I don't think so. [laughter]
01:49:37
I don't think so. But then I'm not negotiating with you over a over over a deal. May maybe maybe you become prickly
01:49:44
when money becomes involved. No, >> I don't think so. I think prickly is an odd description for me. I think I think
01:49:49
I can understand why people get, you know, get um um >> Has has that word been sitting on your
01:49:55
mind for the last 1 hour 49 minutes? >> Not at all. Well, no. No, [laughter] not
01:49:58
really. Not really. I I can see why people get intimidated, but you know, but sometimes you use that
01:50:04
for negotiation anyway or whatever, but I don't really want I don't really do that.
01:50:08
>> I I'd quite like that. I I think of myself as like a like a border collie or a golden retriever. So, I'd like it if
01:50:14
people thought I was a bit prickly. I [laughter] >> Yeah. Hey Brenles, this has been great.
01:50:19
Thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast, mate. >> Pleasure. Thank you.
01:50:22
>> You're a legend.