
00:00:00
Every time there was a story about law and order in New Zealand, you would see your ugly mug on the
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>> [laughter] >> 6:00 news. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you became quite quite
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famous, I guess. Like the go-to guy. >> I became here the I became the leading
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uh really the leading spokesperson on leading um lay spokesperson uh expert opinion on
00:00:22
on crime and and uh prisons.
