00:00:00
hey Runners only with dime Harley Runners only with dom Harvey and for the second time Mitch James thank you for
00:00:08
having me back brother brother thanks for coming back I thought the time was right because
00:00:12
um uh you were the very first guest on the podcast when it launched um just over a year ago so I thought we'd do
00:00:19
like um an update like since so much has happened in both your life and my life since we met a year ago for the podcast
00:00:25
and uh I thought it's a good time to check in not so for anyone that um has been one of the day ones and listen to
00:00:31
the first episode with Mitch James or maybe you've gone back and listened to
00:00:33
it I overshared a lot but this the idea of this chat's not for it to be like uh
00:00:38
the same interview again um this is like a different updated conversation we might touch upon some of
00:00:43
the same stuff um but yeah I just want to see what's been going on in your life
00:00:48
first of all um welcome what do you think to myself and uh so your life um since we met last
00:00:59
time your second album's been released yes it's called patience why is that a
00:01:05
fairly self-explanatory title or why the I'd like to think so yeah it's um I had
00:01:09
a big uh a lot of delays in the whole process to get the album out and ended up taking four years and many iterations
00:01:16
and lots of record label drama and and all of that fun stuff so uh I wanted to name it patience after one year and then
00:01:24
it just became ironic after four so I felt like I had to keep it I I feel like um I feel like I can
00:01:32
relate with this podcast uni I'm on because I know where I am and I know where I want to be and unfortunately
00:01:38
there are some things where there's just no way of accelerating that process you
00:01:42
just you do need that patience but [ __ ] it's difficult right yes yeah it is it's
00:01:47
um it's funny like I was talking to my mom the other day on the phone about something going on in my personal life
00:01:52
and I actually said to her I was like man like I wish that just because I released an album called patience I wish
00:01:57
that I'd like mastered and didn't have to ever have to address it again but
00:02:00
it's something that definitely pops up and all areas of life and when you're
00:02:04
energetic people like we are and I guess you know as a Runners podcast I'm pretty
00:02:09
sure a lot of people will uh will vouch for the fact that you know the energy never stops yeah do you think do you
00:02:14
think um you think it's like an ADHD thing or just like a like a drive thing like
00:02:20
you're never quite happy where you are you always like searching for happiness
00:02:23
what do you think it is I think yeah I think there's definitely uh some ADHD traits
00:02:31
that have helped me on the way but I think yeah it's it's definitely like a
00:02:35
mixture of uh of all the all of the above I think drive and perseverance and resilience something I keep coming back
00:02:43
to as well though so they definitely helped me on on the Journey of uh trying to navigate this there's patience I
00:02:51
guess for the last four years so it's yeah it's been a hell of a journey and
00:02:55
very frustrating but um finally got some clear Runway so it's it's an exciting new chapter on the
00:03:02
horizon that's a good it's a good album too we're going to go through it um
00:03:05
track my track um there is a saying in the music business they call it the difficult
00:03:09
second album have you heard that saying oh yeah oh I'll tell you what yesterday's
00:03:17
sitting in the sitting in the chair where you are with some Rachel Hunter uh you know New Zealand supermodel he put
00:03:24
on a massive humping show for her they put his biggest toy for like 10 minutes had
00:03:31
a boy and a boy so um yeah why do they why do they you've heard that saying difficult second album and what is it
00:03:37
yeah yeah well I mean so I guess the whole the whole yarn that of the difficult second album is especially if
00:03:43
you not many people make it to their second album I I think it's something like 90 95 of people don't make it and
00:03:49
the record label game so if you make it to your second album firstly that's an
00:03:54
achievement and a sorry to your second album that's an achievement in itself
00:03:58
um actually getting your first one out as an achievement too but there's so much pressure on it because the there's
00:04:04
more budgets there's more expectation you've gotta you know especially if
00:04:09
you've had a great first album like I did there's lots of expectations to
00:04:13
um you know surpass your numbers that you got on your last one or to for this one to go gold or platinum yeah and
00:04:19
stuff like that because you're expected to because the uh the last one went there so it's um yeah it's there's a lot
00:04:26
of expectation there and I definitely felt it especially you know I tried to get different iterations of the album
00:04:32
out which didn't get accepted and and so on and so forth and pardon me that really uh that really
00:04:38
tested my patience and and basically it got the put the bar so high for the second album the magical second album
00:04:46
that everyone talks about that you can almost uh you almost never reach it well I certainly feel that that I didn't
00:04:52
reach it but if I'm being honest but I feel like you'll be that uh you I feel
00:04:57
like whatever album you put out um it's your best book at that given moment in time but I feel like you're
00:05:01
never going to be totally happy with it maybe I'm projecting here no no I I feel
00:05:06
the same and I think definitely with with my uh my last album that I just did There's again that that so much
00:05:13
expectation that was put on it that you know I'm just happy to have it out and
00:05:17
it definitely was the my best uh work at that point in time but yeah it's just
00:05:22
man it's just [ __ ] frustrating that this business sometimes and I'm just
00:05:25
happy to have it out and and be free of that whole process and that record label
00:05:30
and and everything so yeah you mentioned before something about um you you handed
00:05:34
it in and it got rejected like because of the quality of the song is that from the label is that from your management
00:05:40
is it people saying there's no radio hits on there or what what's the yeah
00:05:44
that's basically all the uh all the record label um I would have had the my last album
00:05:50
out literally um probably six months after the first one if I had it my way so they um yeah
00:05:57
that's it's all a and the deal that I was in it was all about them having the power and the
00:06:03
control as to when they wanted to release it so um so they definitely exercised that and
00:06:08
and tested my patience so are you still with Sony that's your record label no uh
00:06:14
no no no no no as of uh as a very recently no wow so who are you with anyone or are you independent I'm a free
00:06:20
agent right right now so what what is what does that mean exactly like from um yeah what do you lose from that what do
00:06:26
you gain from it um I uh uh so basically I have I have freedom now to release whenever I want which is
00:06:35
the main thing like I'm not going to sit here and and slag people off but like I
00:06:39
um I basically just have the opportunity now to if I have music and I um want to
00:06:44
release it I can release it and so that's that's been the most important
00:06:47
thing for me going forward is like now I can um yeah I can just release whenever
00:06:52
I want which has been it's been frustrating for me because I'm such a prolific songwriter I write so
00:06:58
much songs that I have a massive backlog that I've wanted to keep people up to
00:07:03
date with over the last few years and I haven't been able to so now I just get
00:07:06
to give people a snapshot of where I'm at maybe two maybe three times a year
00:07:10
and and that's really exciting for me and if if another label deal pops up that and the shoe fits I'll definitely
00:07:17
look into it but at the moment it's you know I've had such a difficult run with the whole uh the
00:07:27
whole process coming up to this point that it's it's got to be the perfect fit
00:07:31
so in fact but you you are just um putting myself in the position of your record label for a second you'd be um
00:07:38
you'd be a nightmare artist in that you're you're so eager so enthusiastic
00:07:45
so hungry well it must be like calm down we've got to work we've got a we've got
00:07:50
a model there's a way we do this you need to wait another year album cycle whatever and you'll be like no well yeah
00:07:57
I mean I would have thought that those those characteristics were something that they would have enjoyed but it
00:08:03
turns out that uh I don't know maybe uh maybe they don't but um but yeah I'm
00:08:10
if that's being a nightmare to work with then [ __ ] guilty as charged brother
00:08:14
guilt of his child yeah yeah well you know you know I'm a fan I'm just playing
00:08:17
Devils of course of course um well that seems like this seems like there's a lot of Pros there what are the
00:08:23
cons like is it is it a scary thing being out on your own without the backing of a label what are the cons I
00:08:29
mean money money's hard to come by at the at this at this point in time for anyone in this current world and uh
00:08:37
basically the labels you know they they front all the money and that's how they
00:08:40
they kind of run their business and so let's [ __ ] all day from them isn't it
00:08:44
don't you get most of your money from touring and oh like none of my money that goes in into my pocket would have
00:08:49
been from them but they pay for all the the production of them I can use it which is [ __ ] expensive and
00:08:58
yeah exactly at dumplings earlier um yeah so it's it's it's a very uh it's
00:09:06
an interesting sort of business but I think there's just a lot more risk and a
00:09:10
lot more it's just scary having to go out on your own and um you know I've never been like a
00:09:15
social media person and the truth of the matter is you if you want to be an independent artist and you want to
00:09:21
succeed you have to Market yourself on the social media um how old did I just sound the social
00:09:27
media the YouTube 70 years old um but yeah like I mean I've hired someone to take care of my social media
00:09:36
and it's an exciting new chapter you know like I've got a lot of music that
00:09:40
I'm really proud of that I'm about to release and it just feels like you know
00:09:44
I was the uh I was the project of of the label for a while and it worked and but
00:09:50
I feel like there's a new chapter for me just sort of like as a man you know what
00:09:54
I mean like I don't really want to be the the yes sir how high do I jump to to
00:09:59
someone when you know I want to have that balance in my life I spend so much time you know jumping through heaps of
00:10:06
of doing everything that uh the the industry asked me to that it's I'm just
00:10:11
kind of tired of that and want to just release music and and make my own music on my own terms and I could really give
00:10:18
a [ __ ] about the the rest of the hooplar if it comes it comes if it doesn't it
00:10:21
doesn't it's just yeah a new chapter and time for me to just you know do my thing
00:10:26
but on my terms I think good for you I feel like you and me um are in the same sort of position in a way like I've gone
00:10:32
from the comfort of having a like a radio salary where there's a marketing team that promotes you to having to like
00:10:38
pimp myself out on and on the Instagram the Instagram yeah it's different and I think as new
00:10:46
zealanders it's a it's a very interesting thing because we're always
00:10:49
taught to you know ourselves and not just ourselves and it's very it's very
00:10:54
unnatural I feel to like be like hey everybody look at my photos for the fourth time from this weekend and but
00:11:01
it's just the nature of the Beast unfortunately now and you've got to go
00:11:04
to adapt or you're [ __ ] so yeah we I mean we gotta help ourselves out of it I
00:11:09
guess don't and we're recording this on a a Tuesday just after you did the um a
00:11:14
Dunedin slot opening for 660 and um so the social media content you're talking
00:11:18
about I've seen that online it looks [ __ ] great yeah you've got like a
00:11:21
social media person yeah um Mr Logan Dodds so I'm sure people know ridiculously handsome oh God isn't
00:11:29
he just um yeah he's uh he's an absolute weapon um and really knows what he's doing um
00:11:35
with the whole social game and he's just he's one of my mates you know so it's he
00:11:39
understands me and I trust that he can portray me accurately on it so um yeah it's it's definitely a change and I feel
00:11:47
kind of even just [ __ ] weird talking about it to be honest because it's it's
00:11:51
something that I may actively try and like not make a part of my life but now I got to make it a part of my life and
00:11:57
[ __ ] I don't know I just just trying to get a [ __ ] enough bread to eat this
00:12:01
big dog like an interesting relationship with uh social media in that um you I feel like you've got a healthy
00:12:11
relationship with it like uh you you'll disappear you'll go to ground completely
00:12:14
for three months six months whatever and there'll be no posts no stories no nothing and then when you've got
00:12:19
something to promote you'll come back is that is that a fair way of like summarizing your relationship with
00:12:26
social media yeah I think it is I think that's fair to say do you disable the
00:12:30
account completely when that happens or I tend to delete it off my phone uh but not delete the account
00:12:36
um yeah it's it's definitely a love hate thing oh it's it's necessary evil yeah
00:12:42
so that's probably a better way of describing it for me uh yeah social media is like
00:12:48
I don't want to [ __ ] post my breakfast and be like hey guys it's stuck in bacon and eggs today look at me
00:12:55
um with the you know the blue eyes filter on and [ __ ] I just I don't know I
00:13:00
thought that [ __ ] just rubs me the wrong way and I feel but I understand that people want to like get an insight to
00:13:07
you but I I don't know I I draw the line at like my personal life like I I'm
00:13:12
totally okay with you know Logan following me around with the camera when I'm on tour and when I'm off stage on
00:13:18
tour or whatever but you know when I'm uh when I'm sitting at home um trying to mind my own business I I
00:13:25
have to draw the line there and I but you know I suppose in a way um I know I might be if I'm completely
00:13:32
wrong about this tell me that I don't know [ __ ] but I feel like uh there's oh
00:13:37
you don't know [ __ ] but I feel I feel like um everyone that is on stage is to a degree a character
00:13:44
like I saw Lord perform the other day and it's I I know to Ella reasonably well and she's very different when you
00:13:51
see her in the supermarket to how she is on stage and you're exactly the same
00:13:55
like oh yeah totally totally I mean if you saw me on stage in Dunedin I my mum called me earlier and she she describes
00:14:04
my energy as like flee from the Red Hot Chili Peppers and I was like [ __ ] Mom I
00:14:09
don't know if that's [ __ ] a good thing or if that's sort of like a
00:14:12
crackhead sort of energy I'm giving off but you know like I'm if you catch me on
00:14:17
my couch on a on a Monday morning after my run that's very different human being to the
00:14:24
guy who's bouncing around on stage is it's definitely like a character if you
00:14:28
will of so it's like I I do before I go on stage on channel I know exactly what energy I'm trying to
00:14:35
channel and [ __ ] it takes it out of you bro like after I was done the last tour
00:14:40
that I was on last year after four months like I barely talked to anyone for for a whole month when I got home I
00:14:46
just had to sit down and [ __ ] smoke a lot of comments um and and just relax you know because
00:14:53
there was there's so much energy that you're taking from everyone every night
00:14:57
and you've got to deliver for them and you've got to give them your best self
00:15:01
and you know I if I'm not if people aren't leaving my show going [ __ ] that
00:15:07
was some of the most intense like energy that someone's ever given for a show
00:15:11
then as far as I'm concerned I've I've failed my audience so yeah it's it's
00:15:17
pretty hard to balance at the best of times absolutely I mean you you watch you on stage and there's something
00:15:21
Primal and something very sexual about it so there's a lot of Sexual Energy yeah I you know like I think so a little
00:15:28
bit a little bit and I'm um I would uh Define myself as a hundred percent um heterosexual but it's like I suppose
00:15:34
the women in the audience they they want to be with you and the guys there they want to be you
00:15:41
if you are doing your job right yeah absolutely it's and again like you know
00:15:46
that inner kiwi in me wants to come out and be like oh no you know like I'm just
00:15:50
no no thanks but as I guess it is true you know it's um and I don't know where it comes from to
00:15:57
be honest I'm like bro I know Steve's growing up I had no game got with no
00:16:03
girls I was the the last in line but it's yeah I don't know it's just it's
00:16:08
something knowing that no sorry yeah sorry for interrupting but knowing that background
00:16:13
having no game no no checks into you when you're at school was that may even
00:16:17
subliminally part of the motivation for getting into music you thought okay this
00:16:21
is it this is a game about it brother them about it open as can be well otherwise you may
00:16:29
have picked up the cello or something yeah a concert [ __ ] violinist or something yeah no no it's definitely um
00:16:37
that was definitely part of part of it and I don't know if I'm like consciously
00:16:40
trying I don't think I'm consciously trying to channel that but I think you
00:16:44
know when you are like sort of like trying to muster up your character of what you want to be on stage and what
00:16:49
you want to want to um you know the vibe you want to give off that is what you want to be doing as but yeah like you
00:16:57
want to be the dude that the ladies want to be within [ __ ] if the fellas may you
00:17:03
can stay and watch you can [ __ ] off man yeah I fully get that okay um I want to get into the urban patience
00:17:10
and run through it um track my track because it's um man it's uh it feels like a personal diary
00:17:18
you're listening to it when I was listening to it I I there were some things I wanted like it feels like it's
00:17:24
a form of therapy for you like getting these words on a page I wondered how like your family reacted to it when they
00:17:30
when they heard it because you know it does feel very very intensely personal um we'll get to that first of all one
00:17:37
other thing that's happened since we last caught up like a year ago I think when we caught up last time there was
00:17:41
still like miq managed isolation quarantine and you couldn't travel anywhere but since then you've been you
00:17:48
went over to Europe with Callum Scott yes yeah yeah so calum's got big song um
00:17:52
he does the Robin song Dancing On My Own it's probably as big as that he had yeah
00:17:55
I mean he's to be fair to Calum he's had quite a quite a number of effects now
00:17:59
but um yeah Dancing On My Own was definitely uh I mean there's it's got billions and billions of strains and
00:18:06
yeah you were the reason bloody where are you now if he's he's got plenty I
00:18:11
think he's got the number one song in the UK at the moment too but but Callum
00:18:14
just an absolute gym and and that tour came up with I think I don't know if this is the the full
00:18:22
truth but there's something like the the support act before that was on the tour
00:18:27
for the first leg I think there was some compatibility issues if we want to put it that way oh spill the tea what does
00:18:34
that mean well I I don't know I don't wanna I don't want to be like a
00:18:38
personality clash with Kellum Scott or um no I I think yeah yeah it was um you were like a last minute ringing I
00:18:51
was a last minute ringing but no I didn't know Callum at this stage and right I said you'd never met no you just
00:18:56
like my music and um and so I got the last minute call up and yeah went from Estonia started in Estonia finished off
00:19:03
in South Africa it was the mo it was the maddest [ __ ] experience I could have ever imagined it was so full on and uh
00:19:10
but yeah I mean Callum is now I consider him a close friend and his team and his
00:19:15
band and his crew are just the most amazing people and I've got a couple more weeks with them coming up before
00:19:20
that tour ends um soon but yeah that was that was an amazing little way to finish
00:19:25
the year after you know covert being so [ __ ] for all musicians to have a little
00:19:31
uh World Tour in there was pretty cool but yeah so that was that was while you were sort of treating water I guess
00:19:36
waiting for your new album patience to come out yeah this is free patience so yeah
00:19:42
so the show that we talked about before in Dunedin I'm guessing for that you know you're opening for 660. you're
00:19:49
a New Zealander it's a New Zealand Stadium people are first to see you everyone knows who you are you're
00:19:53
opening for Calum Scott and [ __ ] Berlin no one knows who you are is it a different sort of show yeah you have to
00:20:00
try harder or do it's a different vibe yeah sure um and it's not for everyone to be
00:20:06
honest bro it's uh it's [ __ ] hard work you're trying to win people over
00:20:10
that don't know you exactly you've got to win them over and we had man that dog
00:20:15
humps um it's because you're all the Sexual Energy you're bringing um
00:20:24
um it's a different sort of show like I say if you um yeah you walk on stage in
00:20:31
Dunedin yeah everyone knows who you are everyone knows your songs everyone knows
00:20:35
the words you will walk on stage in Estonia opening for a room full of people that are there to see Calum Scott
00:20:40
I feel like is it a different sort of show that you have to do yeah 36 shows and I think I was confident
00:20:53
that I completely won over the crowd and 33 of them and the other wow yeah and that's it's hard work and I I really did
00:21:00
get a kick out of of the process because I'm just a dude with a guitar in front
00:21:07
of a couple thousand people it's Friday night they've got a drink in their hand
00:21:12
they're not here for me like how am I going to make them shut up and listen to
00:21:16
me because it's it's [ __ ] it's hard I just got my guitar so um it's it's a pretty it's a very like
00:21:23
uh yeah I would kind of describe it as like almost Primal in a way it's like I'm I'm
00:21:28
I'm gonna have you [ __ ] like whether I I whether you like it or not I'm going to win you over one way or
00:21:35
another and yeah I guess I mean the only way I can describe it is I just [ __ ] it
00:21:40
and rip it you know I just get up there and I just you know say a little prayer beforehand and you know just ask for
00:21:46
some good energy to to bring out there and just go [ __ ] it and let's not forget
00:21:51
any lyrics and not [ __ ] up any chords and just give it hell um so the three or four shows that um
00:21:58
you didn't feel like you nailed it what happened um so there was uh there's one in
00:22:02
Johannesburg which is the last show of the the tour that was like I don't know
00:22:07
why but I was playing like [ __ ] midday I was show number a billion out of rebellion I'd flown to Africa I spent
00:22:16
longer flying to Africa and back than I did in Africa um and it was the last one and I was
00:22:21
just over in the crowd was it's all sitting down on lawn chairs and they didn't give a flying [ __ ] about a New
00:22:29
Zealander Edinburgh was um I mean lovely place but it was just a bit of a an old folks home and was a bit
00:22:38
vibrous and in that show but I loved the city it was just a tough crowd and then
00:22:43
what else there was one other one I think which uh the fact that you can remember them is alarming yeah I mean
00:22:49
especially knowing my brain um yeah and yeah there's one other which was a bit tough
00:22:55
um but otherwise yeah it was just like a those are just a hard graph to win these
00:23:01
these fans over with you with just your guitar but it's it's it's quite
00:23:05
self-assuring because if when you know that you can do this like night after night after night it kind of reassures
00:23:11
you that you are in the right place and you're doing the right thing and and
00:23:14
you're on the right path making music rather than you know doubting yourself I guess and how do you
00:23:20
how do you like tours like this I know they can be quite stressful and it's not
00:23:23
not all Glitz and glamor so you do you do the show and then yeah especially around Europe I suppose at 3am or 4am
00:23:29
wake up call and then you're traveling to the next place how do you like how do
00:23:32
you wind down after a show like that you can't get on it really can you I've
00:23:36
found ways but yeah I mean now nowadays I'm a bit better um but yeah like on a proper tour like
00:23:46
this you just don't have the time like I mean a typical day for me like there's
00:23:51
this one day in in Asia on this tour that just went by went like this so uh I had to wake up at five to go to the
00:23:59
airport catch a flight to a different city uh catch the flight go straight straight to the venue from the airport
00:24:07
sound check uh stay at the venue get dinner play the show Callum plays the show a couple drinks afterwards that
00:24:15
takes us to about 11 12 um I go back to the hotel wake up uh 3 30 a.m wake up call another flight at
00:24:23
five awake rinse and repeat so it's really not it's not a sustainable thing
00:24:29
and it's I mean even after that one tour I I I'm not gonna lie like I I had some
00:24:35
serious thought it's about like you know [ __ ] is is this really what you want to
00:24:39
do because this is the reality of the situation it's I think people think you
00:24:43
know when they hear about you know Mitch James going on a world tour he's you
00:24:47
know having seven Sims every night doing [ __ ] eight bags of cocaine it's it's
00:24:51
and it's very affordable in Europe it is Affordable in Europe but I don't have
00:24:55
the time unfortunately right but it's it's yeah I mean you know there's
00:24:59
definitely a couple dates where you'll circle on the calendar and you'll have a
00:25:02
good time with your friends and oh you gotta pack and choose the dates yes yeah but I mean you know I reckon on this
00:25:09
last tour um out of you know 30 40 shows there would have been three four years we've
00:25:17
got really got to push play but um yeah it's just it's certainly not what they
00:25:22
they make it out to be but I mean I love it you know there's there's no better
00:25:25
feeling for me than like I said you know obviously it's rewarding winning over a
00:25:30
crowd when you're opening but man it's just different gravy when you're playing
00:25:34
in front of your fans and they're there for your music and they've showed up
00:25:38
paid their hard-earned money and want to share that energy with you you it's it's
00:25:43
impossible for me to not give it 110 and the way that I was looking at I was you
00:25:49
know on the phone to my mum during the tour and I was like [ __ ] it just feels like a energy mortgage like I'm just I'm
00:25:56
just getting deeper and deeper and deeper into this debt of energy just to muster it up for one more show I'm going
00:26:03
you know I'm compounding [ __ ] dead on top of itself and and so once you're
00:26:09
done it's it's been tough for me bro because it's you have this uh non-existent balance in your life oh I
00:26:17
know Kanye I wish I could something like that too um but you'd have this non-existent
00:26:22
balance you know because by the time that my next tour which you know probably by the time we're now we
00:26:28
release this it'll be announced and stuff like I I would have had 10 of the last 12 months just on the road so when
00:26:36
you're at home and you're trying to like rest up and recover you spend so much
00:26:40
time resting that you know you can't maintain friendships or like start new relationships or whatever and then
00:26:45
you're back on the road again and it's it's it's definitely it's not for
00:26:49
everyone but that feeling I get when I when I play in front of people and you really like feel that energy and you
00:26:54
truly connect on it when they're your fans and they're there for your music
00:26:58
and you're sharing that moment as I mean yeah it's nothing like it for me
00:27:03
it's going to be humbling and it's something that so few people get to experience yeah it's such a blessing bro
00:27:08
like it really is I know it sounds cliche but no no no but [ __ ] I'm I'm
00:27:12
eternally grateful for it every single time I get to experience that feeling like even on the weekend you know it
00:27:17
wasn't my show but getting to play in dunners which is a special crowd for me
00:27:21
and they always turn up [ __ ] really like gave me just an extra tank of gas what
00:27:27
happened after Dunedin no I'm just thinking so home home game home crowd day off the next day so so
00:27:37
this is a good a good little story so and it's not it's probably not ending
00:27:41
the way that you think it is sorry sorry yeah um yeah so so after Dunedin um I was talking to my manager and my
00:27:54
managers he's a smart bloke and uh I was like oh I'm getting like quite a number
00:27:59
of like DMS from uh like from girls to go over to their flats and like kind of like do little concert things and then
00:28:07
when I had like you know 20 different flats that are messaging me just saying and I was like you know what bro like I
00:28:13
think I might like just go and grab my guitar like you guys like piss up and whatever but I think I might just go and
00:28:21
kind of like give a little back to Dunedin you know awesome almost like an Ed Sheeran style thing but you know very
00:28:26
in my flavor though primary schools are doing hot female plants with the guitar and played some songs
00:28:45
and I I was just [ __ ] real cool because you know I'm I'm not getting any
00:28:50
younger and like to go back to to Donna's and just like see the spirit still alive and you know they're all
00:28:58
they're all passing me bottles of vodka and [ __ ] making me scale all these
00:29:02
drinks doing chewies and [ __ ] and um I was just bouncing around a few of these Flats just kind of I wish you know
00:29:09
I was thinking like you know how cool would it have been when if I was back in Donna's their age you know like flatting
00:29:16
if you know some of my like musical Idols came through and like started you know doing shillies and [ __ ] and it's
00:29:23
such a random story yeah you win them over fans for life yeah I mean it was it was a lot of fun that was a lot of fun I
00:29:30
had a shout out to all the gals yeah do you remember the names of any of the flats they usually have names don't land
00:29:35
up yeah yeah uh what's the name of the plant we just end up staying in the night
00:29:41
uh this advice I stayed at my hotel I was I was a I I was a good boy I was a good boy
00:29:48
um and I just struck out I think to be honest but yeah it was it was heaps of fun and
00:29:55
I feel like um yeah I feel like Dana's needs a bit of that energy so it's just fun to give
00:30:01
back after that but I I can't be doing that every night in Europe and [ __ ]
00:30:05
though that's for sure yeah um yeah what is your are you single at the moment what's your relationship
00:30:10
status yeah you know I'm I'm single um not for a lack of trying you're quite a romantic hey like I feel
00:30:19
like I feel like you you deeply want uh to find that one true love Yeah like actually this any parallels with you and
00:30:25
Ed Sheeran hey yeah musically wise and also I think you know personality wise and personal
00:30:30
life-wise as well yeah for sure I mean yeah it's it's been an interesting sort
00:30:36
of Journey with me for that especially over the last few years there's been um
00:30:40
yeah like I I've I've been really working on myself first and foremost and
00:30:45
and just making sure that I'm I'm all good but [ __ ] me do I have some [ __ ]
00:30:49
luck do you how do you how do you mean you can get them but you can't make them
00:30:54
stay or oh no I think it's just uh what I've really struggled with is just
00:30:59
finding genuine people I think um you know there's there's been so many uh people that are coming to my life and
00:31:06
they just end up you know showing that they're there for the wrong reasons or
00:31:09
they're fake or or flaky um but you know I I'm I'm not too phased about it to be
00:31:15
honest you know like like life's pretty good and um you know there's going to be
00:31:19
plenty of opportunities for me to to find the right woman but I back it's pretty annoying sometimes I'm not gonna
00:31:25
lie because you know it's like I was saying before you know with the when you
00:31:29
don't have that balance in life it's it's always nice to have a rock or
00:31:33
someone that can can Center you and ground you but you know you don't want to be doing that with the wrong people
00:31:38
either so it's been um yeah it's been an interesting Journey um and I I I've been striking out a bit
00:31:45
but you know I keep showing up to the Batters box I I suppose um yeah I mean it's okay if it's transactional so
00:31:52
you're getting a route and they're getting a story by Sleeping with someone
00:31:56
that's got a little bit of Celebrity Status yeah that's that's that stuff that's what what has happened
00:32:02
in the past a lot and I just you know it's it's fun every now and then like I can't lie to you but
00:32:10
um you know it's it's not that that a grounding thing or that uh that Soul
00:32:15
fulfilling thing is which is really at the end of the day is what I'm after but
00:32:19
you know it seems like all girls want to be treated like [ __ ] these days I don't
00:32:23
know but they you know they say they say they want a good boy yeah but then yeah
00:32:31
um how many times how many times have you been in love now I would say I've been in love
00:32:37
properly I'd say I've been in love twice right yeah I've I've had uh so long-term
00:32:44
girlfriends that I I would say I was definitely in love with um but the first one
00:32:50
um absolute Angel and that was that was my fault I [ __ ] that up and that was you know a long time ago oh yeah we
00:32:56
taught rather than the first podcast you don't speak anymore there's no relationship there no no but I always
00:33:01
wish her the bear she's awesome yeah um and then yeah I I fell in love again
00:33:06
probably a couple years ago now like 2020 well the girl that I was with for yeah about a year or so and then you
00:33:13
know the aftermath went on for a while too but um what happened there oh it's I think
00:33:19
just honest and in all honesty um just very different personalities and sort of uh
00:33:27
and and sort of just life paths yeah so but you know it it didn't mean nicely
00:33:34
for me but you know she's she's in a very nice girl generally speaking so you
00:33:39
know nothing but nothing with good things to say without getting into you know personal stuff yeah yeah fair
00:33:45
enough so what what are you what are you looking for exactly is is what is your girl
00:33:50
I think it's interesting because I I went on a date with a girl not too long
00:33:56
ago and it went amazing and I was like oh there's a lot that I like about this
00:34:01
girl and I I didn't work out for for whatever reason but um I think it's what I realized that I I
00:34:09
you know we're talking about the stage character and whatever like you might
00:34:13
think that I'm a very extroverted person by seeing me up on stage but the truth
00:34:17
is is that I'm actually quite the opposite when it comes to like everyday life I'm very introverted and chilled
00:34:24
and I like to you know spend a lot of time alone and and all of that so I think someone that brings out like that
00:34:30
other side of me someone who's like extroverted and you know just kind of like sunshine energy is is what I like
00:34:37
I'm really attracted to but I've I've found that it's quite rare
00:34:43
um and I've I've yeah I've sort of struggled to find people that um that
00:34:48
have that energy genuinely speaking but I think that's the thing I'm most
00:34:52
attracted to is just someone who's just like fills up a room so I don't have to
00:34:57
you say do you not have much of a social battery or it doesn't take much to it's a funny social battery it's like a
00:35:06
um if I don't know someone like I'll be very quiet and reserved but as soon as
00:35:13
you get to know me like you probably know this and the weirdest [ __ ] you'll ever meet I'm the best possible
00:35:18
way though I like your weirdness yeah exactly you know so it's it's yeah I
00:35:22
feel like someone yeah well for me personally I I can do like social things but like
00:35:29
it's like my once a week like as soon as I get home I'm like I did it like I socialized I was a
00:35:36
normal person now I get to smoke weed and chill out for the rest of the week oh my God I am just the same I'll go out
00:35:42
I'll go out to a thing and I'll put a shirt on and I'll go out and then as
00:35:46
soon as it's polite to leave I'll leave come home put a t-shirt on and some um like
00:35:52
running shorts and just relax yeah and just feel at peace like completely at peace and relaxed yeah yeah it's
00:35:58
definitely what I I tend to do and um you know if I I think it's the personality type is a infp which is like
00:36:06
a it's an introverted uh whatever the rest is intuitive feeling perceiver right where
00:36:16
did you get that from is that from a podcast like uh um there's like a thing
00:36:21
called 16 personalities which is like a um basically all of us fall under one of
00:36:27
one of the other personalities and it's uh I think there's a lot of science
00:36:30
behind it apparently but I don't know it might be a bit wishy-washy who knows
00:36:33
yeah no not at all all right so your second album patience it was out um November 2022 yes yeah are you happy
00:36:40
with how it went uh how it's gone so far um if if I'm honest I'm I'm really happy
00:36:45
about the music I was really proud about the music um and where it came from why I did it
00:36:52
and and the finished result I wasn't so happy with um with the results I guess
00:36:58
um but in terms of like streaming numbers yeah but it's that's stuff you
00:37:02
can't control right so I I've learned to be able to switch that off tangibly and
00:37:09
and sort of understand that my value doesn't lie within those numbers but you
00:37:14
know I did struggle with that a lot like in the last five six years about like trying to separate my value from as a
00:37:21
person from my career but I I'd be lying if I said wasn't a little bit upset with
00:37:26
how the numbers went but I know that you know I know that I believe in the music
00:37:31
so yeah it's you know where it's got to count for something right yeah um okay so let's run through a track
00:37:37
there's ten songs on the album yeah um first how many songs did you you're a
00:37:42
prolific writer how many songs did you write uh to whittle down to that ten I mean over that four year period there'd
00:37:48
definitely be over a hundred songs for sure um [ __ ] yeah wow yeah so 100 the the ten
00:37:55
best ones make the cut I mean was more like what felt right in the moment where when I was in the studio
00:38:06
last year um like there's definitely some songs that I've written in that process that'll be good enough
00:38:14
to release but just didn't really fit that narrative or felt like that's what
00:38:18
I was trying to do at that time so yeah so so the 90 that don't make the cut
00:38:24
um do they go in like a folder like to be continued or to be worked on or they just get scrapped completely I mean they
00:38:31
basically just get scrapped I can send them to my publisher who can try send them out to you know if like a Sean
00:38:36
Mendes is looking for a song or whatever but that's kind of there's a whole
00:38:40
industry of people that do that in La so the chances of that [ __ ] sticking on the
00:38:44
wall is not very high yeah but so I've got a big backlogging catalog that no one will probably ever hear
00:38:53
um which is probably you know seems like a terrible waste yeah well I mean I love
00:38:57
some of these songs but I feel like songs to me are just like a moment you know like if I wrote a song like four
00:39:03
years ago about like I don't know how I was feeling about probably crying about
00:39:07
a girl or something on a Tuesday shock horror um on a Tuesday that definitely wrecks
00:39:14
of a come down yeah oh yeah yes it does the the famous case of the Tuesdays um yeah yeah but um they basically just
00:39:22
uh yeah they get stored in the Dropbox folder somewhere forever for no one to hear them I suppose even if they're not
00:39:28
commercially successful or they never see the light of day it's still cathartic for you to write them at the
00:39:32
time definitely yeah definitely that's the best thing about songwriting for me
00:39:36
is is the therapy aspect of it because [ __ ] if I had it my God on a mess already Dom could you imagine yeah I was
00:39:44
going to ask you have you been to therapy or do you find songwritings enough for you to get what you need no
00:39:49
no I got a therapy I'm a massive believer and unashamedly it's I've found
00:39:54
an amazing um therapist Dr Isabel who's yeah just helped me through so much [ __ ] and
00:40:01
um yeah it just helps me compartmentalize [ __ ] and when I figure when I can compartmentalize [ __ ] I can
00:40:07
definitely just approach my life in a more Freer way and with with a lot less stress so I haven't been able to afford
00:40:13
her for the last couple months but I have an appointment book for next week and my God is she gonna hear it from me
00:40:20
Dr Roosevelt we might need 90 minutes yeah yeah we're gonna need an extra session that day um I mean we and we can
00:40:27
joke about it but Jokes Aside that is the um that's the [ __ ] up thing about
00:40:31
therapy like there's a lot of people that could probably do uh really do with
00:40:35
it and get a lot out of it but the money's the prohibitive aspect which is terrible yeah it sucks so how long how
00:40:42
long you been saying is she the only one you've seen or did you say what I've
00:40:46
really stuck with to be honest I've seen a couple over my time but I'm sure some
00:40:50
people are listening vouch for me and saying [ __ ] you know yeah it took me like four or five
00:40:56
different people over a long period of time to like be like oh this is this is the person that I need to be talking to
00:41:03
yeah and yeah and I was like yeah it's as she calls herself my coach rather than like a therapist because you know
00:41:12
we've ended up getting through so much [ __ ] together she basically just coaches
00:41:16
me on what to say to girls oh no I'm joking now what I don't know if you
00:41:27
even want to share this because it is an intensely personal but yeah what are there any like real good memorable
00:41:32
takeaways you've gotten from here that you implement in your day-to-day life
00:41:36
yeah it's it's a lot of it's been situational stuff to deal a deal mostly for me it's just been the
00:41:47
just having someone to talk to as cliche as that is like this because you know with my friends
00:41:55
um I feel like I don't really want to burden them with my personal [ __ ] when
00:42:03
it's just I need someone to talk to rather than like I need a solution for something so like you know with my last
00:42:09
breakup I I remember like I kept calling to all my best friends and I kept I kept
00:42:16
falling into the same hole and I kept over months and months and months I was saying the same [ __ ] over and over to
00:42:22
them when they must have just been thinking Jesus [ __ ] Christ like can't you just can't you see the way out
00:42:27
whereas get over here yeah whatever it happens to be yeah I mean they don't need to need to think
00:42:34
about that when I could just be saying it to my therapist the whole time and I can save my time with my mates to talk
00:42:40
about [ __ ] what we usually talk about then rather than stuff that's you know
00:42:45
intensely burdensome and personal so it's it's just I find it's just the the
00:42:50
best tool that you could have for just trying to get it clear here though because I mean I can only speak for
00:42:57
myself and I'm [ __ ] singer and I'm crazy and it's always going up upstairs
00:43:02
but it just definitely helps to have someone who can compartmentalize things for you I understand it come out come it
00:43:09
up from a different angle that's not biased or personal especially when you need advice for certain things that are
00:43:15
going on in your life like you know you don't want to be asking your best friend
00:43:19
about like seven tensely like intense work question because they obviously have biases and stuff like that
00:43:27
um but yeah it's it's the best thing I think I've honestly as an adult it's the
00:43:31
best money I've ever spent even though it is you know this [ __ ] expensive and times are tough yeah it's an
00:43:36
investment but talking to your friends I'm in sort of two minds about that because it's um you now we all say it's
00:43:42
not weak to speak and it is good to talk to your friends but on the flip side of
00:43:45
that your friends aren't professionally trained so they don't necessarily know
00:43:48
the right thing to say and and you're right like if you are um if you're on like a negative Loop
00:43:54
cycle and you're talking you're bitching about the same stuff over and over again
00:43:57
sometimes it's not necessarily to put that on your friends it's just it's it's
00:44:03
I feel like you know there's a time and a place yeah and I I probably just I
00:44:09
overdid it you know I went to the well one too many times yeah it's dry down
00:44:13
there but yeah no it's it's definitely something that I would I would highly
00:44:17
highly recommend day and it's um yeah it needs to be done more and uh like like I
00:44:23
said coming from a dude who you know uh anyone who knows me I'm I'm just about
00:44:28
as as laddy as you could get in in a lot of ways but [ __ ] me I feel like so many
00:44:34
new zealanders could benefit from it because they're so in our culture to just be like oh no like you know I can't
00:44:40
be talking about that or or like you know we we just we just hired so much [ __ ] and I feel
00:44:48
that if I can be a light for for people like that and without you know trying to
00:44:53
be too much of a Debbie Downer [ __ ] me it's that's the best thing you'll ever
00:44:57
do yeah I couldn't agree more I I was a lot older than you before I went for the
00:45:02
first time and I was nervous as hell and then when I walked out of the first session I was like I don't even know why
00:45:07
that was so dumb to be nervous yeah and to put this thing off for years because it's fantastic yeah it's great yeah and
00:45:14
I think the best thing is as well about it is my therapist always is like she's
00:45:20
not there to like give me the answers she's there to show shown myself the answers and like it's
00:45:27
always within you and they just kind of lead you to the to the thought processes
00:45:31
that you need to get to and then you deal with it yourself yeah did you like print out the lyrics to the songs in
00:45:37
your new album motions and show them to her or anything because I feel like it said the the the way that you've written
00:45:43
this album it feels like a journal in a way yeah do you show me the lyrics or no
00:45:47
is that it's like no but she uh she actually showed up to mine surprise me which was really lovely
00:45:53
ever um but she hears she hears all the words but not in the lyrical way right just me
00:45:59
having a [ __ ] winch when you're talking here it doesn't necessarily rhyme exactly okay let's run through
00:46:06
this album so it's called patience it's been out about five months now track one
00:46:10
is five months [ __ ] man is it yeah four months five months yeah I guess so so the first track is motions which are
00:46:16
some a big radio song got a bit of TV play um one of the lyrics in there on my phone everybody's just a highlight
00:46:23
showing off but they're broken on the inside I know I used to be that guy yeah
00:46:27
yeah we touched upon your relationship with social media before yeah yeah yeah I mean yeah basically that is exactly
00:46:34
what I was talking about before it's just that yeah I um there was a period in my life where you know I just
00:46:41
released my first album and everything was going well and I I was very immature in in the industry and as a man and I
00:46:50
just started reading my own hype and started being a terrible you know terrible boyfriend [ __ ] friend and just
00:46:58
thought special rules applied to me and it sort of yeah it sort of came to this Crossroads with that on social media as
00:47:05
well just like you know trying to be the man and [ __ ] and it's just not who I am
00:47:09
at the soul level and I just got a bit lost for a while in in that sense and yeah just I was trying to be someone
00:47:17
that I wasn't and I think this song was just basically about the Journey of coming back to my my soul if you will
00:47:25
and and being me rather than trying to be what Society tells you a pop star or a rock star or whatever should be
00:47:33
that's good though I I suppose it's something that'll continually happen
00:47:36
right through your life just correcting the course like you know the course that
00:47:39
you should be on and uh I think we all deviate from it at some point yeah think you've got to deviate from it to realize
00:47:46
what your real purpose is yeah yeah like I I just [ __ ] I just felt so lost but I
00:47:52
felt that like if if I was going to be a quote unquote pop star this is what you
00:47:57
had to do because growing up you know like me and my me and my mates growing up you know you listen to Wiz Khalifa
00:48:04
and all you gotta do you know you gotta [ __ ] [ __ ] smoke weed and get [ __ ] up and all this [ __ ] and that's what I
00:48:10
thought you had to do yeah so I I yeah I I sort of went down that path and and [ __ ] up some things that that were
00:48:18
that meant a lot to me and yeah you can either when you get to that crossroads you can either go oh well I'm gonna
00:48:24
turn into 10 times more of a [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] or I'm gonna turn it around and I feel like the turning
00:48:31
around process is [ __ ] long you know what I mean I only really got to a place where I'm truly like happy with myself
00:48:37
as a man probably like you know in the last year or so and it's it's it's
00:48:42
there's no blueprint on how to be a successful pop star or like this especially when you know you haven't had
00:48:50
much mates growing up or you've got a hard time and and whatever like like I
00:48:54
did it's there's no there's no blueprint hey so yeah that's that song was was all
00:48:59
about just all the [ __ ] that life had hit me in the in the last four years and
00:49:04
just trying to make sense of it yeah that's the thing so if you if you do things that don't sit comfortably with
00:49:11
the core of who you are as a person and it has a negative impact on other people
00:49:15
I think you feel really bad about it a more guilt and shame perhaps yeah absolutely absolutely and
00:49:22
uh yeah I think that's just like a full circle song motions of sort of realizing
00:49:27
you know I was really proud of who I was before even though I was very young like
00:49:31
before I saw my deal I was very idealistic and did these things for all the right reason and then to completely
00:49:37
lose it and go to the completely opposite way and then yeah to sort of just reverse the cycle and it's like
00:49:44
walking up an escalator that's going the other way you know it's it's [ __ ]
00:49:49
tough work but if you keep out of you slowly get there yeah I see kids do it all the time yeah Westfield yeah I think
00:49:56
I still do it as a grown ass adult sometimes okay the second track is called stuck in denial
00:50:01
um which is a if you're one of those people that just listens to songs but not necessarily the
00:50:06
lyrics you think it's a happy song right it's a happy Up Tempo song um but it's got lyrics like this some
00:50:12
days I wake up blue could probably maybe use some help I'm still the same as you
00:50:17
lonely and broken too yeah it's um It's A Hard wrench mate yeah it's a funny
00:50:22
song that one because like you said it's very up positive musically um but I I actually got inspired by
00:50:32
um I don't know if you've heard of Nietzsche like the philosopher but he
00:50:37
had this like uh concept called Amor Fati which is like translates from Latin to love of Fate which is basically
00:50:44
saying like no matter what happens in your life uh it's you know it's sort of
00:50:49
like a follow-on from motions in a way that like no matter what happens because there's been so much [ __ ] that's
00:50:54
happened from album one to album two in my life that I didn't really share with
00:50:58
anyone that was just consistent blow after blow after blow after blow and it just felt like I couldn't buy a trick
00:51:04
but you know I always I think this is I sound like a weird segue but this is why I like smoking
00:51:12
weed so much is because it can allow me in those moments to get this perspective
00:51:16
on life of like actually everything's [ __ ] all good I got a roof over my head I've got food my mum
00:51:25
and dad are still lucky enough to be alive I've got two great sisters I've
00:51:29
got some great friends life's [ __ ] good you know so I made this song really about no matter what happens in
00:51:37
life like I'll be quote unquote stuck in denial because I'm gonna find the
00:51:43
happiness and no matter what [ __ ] gets thrown at me and it's quite it sounds
00:51:49
like quite deep for when you listen to the song it sounds like a basic kind of mindless song on the surface but it
00:51:55
really is to me like a song that is just about like grit and finding that yeah the Amor Fati the love of of whatever
00:52:03
happens and comes across your plate is and treating it as a good and positive experience so how does the songwriting
00:52:10
process work with a song like that like why is it why is it not like a a slow Melancholy sort of track
00:52:16
I mean that particular one um it was a funny day because I I hadn't this is the first day I'd met for Kyle
00:52:23
or her injured up producing this album and the whole next album that I've been
00:52:28
doing and he's like a musical soul mate to me but I hadn't met him that's the
00:52:31
first day I met him and um I opened the door to this flat in LA in the six foot four moldy dudes like
00:52:37
killed it bro and I was like [ __ ] like we [ __ ] this feels like we could be on
00:52:43
to something and so we just had a couple beers and we started talking about you know
00:52:49
you know what we were feeling in life and I told him what was going on in my life at the time there was a lot of [ __ ]
00:52:54
going on and but I said to him I because I wrote motions the day before and so I
00:53:02
said to him I I don't really really want to write right [ __ ] yeah like a lot
00:53:07
of shit's been going on but I'm just not in that mood today like I want to write
00:53:10
something that makes me want to get up and and [ __ ] get after it not like uh I feel so [ __ ] right now well that's a
00:53:19
joke yeah so we just it was just really good vibes and so we started writing this
00:53:27
chorus and um you know we had the chords playing and stuff and we just started writing
00:53:31
the chorus and um it just felt really right um writing the chorus first and then I just
00:53:39
kind of said what was going on you know and um yeah all the lyrics are very um I guess quite vulnerable in the sense
00:53:49
yeah very much it's just saying like man yeah you can pile on a [ __ ] off the [ __ ] after [ __ ] on onto my
00:53:57
back but um I'm gonna find a way to to smile through it because as far as we
00:54:01
know we only get one-shotted and some I may as well have a [ __ ] good time a hundred percent where does that um
00:54:07
strength and resilience come from I know we touched upon this on the first um chat that we had like a year ago and
00:54:12
your mum's big saying that she drummed into you was um this too shall pass yeah
00:54:16
um but [ __ ] man you've been through some setbacks hey it's like yeah like growing
00:54:21
up feels like sit back after sit back after sit back and you keep bouncing back I mean honestly I I think you know I
00:54:29
didn't get along with my parents for the longest time but I think I have to to
00:54:32
probably genetically give them that credit of I I it's just it's just in my blood I like my mum it
00:54:42
used to make me cringe like her job what she would do she ran this charity um which is basically like make a wish
00:54:48
for for adults with um you know that are dying and she's will not [ __ ] stop
00:54:54
calling up company after company just asking for free [ __ ] for these dying people and I used to just cringe and die
00:55:02
inside hearing it just getting rejected rejected rejected rejected should keep just picking up the phone picking up the
00:55:08
phone and because she just had this goal in mind of like I'm going to make this
00:55:11
experience for this person and their family so special that I'm not [ __ ] giving up and so cool and
00:55:18
I personally could never do that on the phone I would [ __ ] that but but I guess
00:55:24
it's like just that sense of resilience and um and my mum's like a very loud and
00:55:30
extroverted energetic human but I think also from my dad's side my dad's uh uh
00:55:36
hard-nosed Greymouth dude and he's he's got a soft inside but [ __ ] he's tough as
00:55:42
nails and like is a quiet hard worker and so I'd like to think that I I kind
00:55:47
of just got the best of both worlds from them in terms of mums [ __ ] stick ability and and never give
00:55:54
up attitude and and Dad's you know stomach stoic humility yeah and and I those are the sort of things that I try
00:56:02
and and channel mostly from them and I'm I'm grateful that I have them because I
00:56:09
wouldn't I wouldn't be here without those characteristics for sure yeah because you look at your you look at
00:56:13
your life so um we talked about this on the first podcast so um your parents kind of [ __ ] up your
00:56:18
schooling experience by uh so you you you were in a circle with some weed and you went home and told your mum and then
00:56:26
your mum went and told the school so you were sort of an outcast after that so you got no mates at school you're mad at
00:56:31
your parents so you feel all alone and then um yeah there was like um an attempt at
00:56:37
suicide where you barricaded yourself in your room yeah and then after that it's
00:56:41
not like um it's not like the light at the end of the tunnel at that point it's
00:56:45
like there's just things get get sort of get further and further down like you're
00:56:50
over you're overseas you're sleeping rough yeah you know and it's like
00:56:55
there is sayings like this too shall pass and just put one foot in front of the other and it doesn't say stay stormy
00:57:00
forever but [ __ ] it felt like a long storm you were traveling through yeah it did I mean and that's just you know that
00:57:07
sort of felt like the first album Journey it was was those sort of um mirrors but then I mean since then
00:57:14
you know I've just the behind the scenes battles that I've had to face it also
00:57:19
kind of feels like that non-stop challenges and you know I don't want to get sued by anyone but you know there's
00:57:25
um there's been what what have what have you got that they can take [ __ ] off the
00:57:30
shirt on your bed oh yeah [ __ ] off um yeah only 18 of that apparently but um yeah so yeah but it's been just it's
00:57:41
been Non-Stop and I I don't know why you know they this that's kind of how my
00:57:47
path goes is I tend to take the hard option or I make a decision that sort of leads me down a road of a lot the
00:57:55
treacherous [ __ ] but I don't know it's just it's it's I feel like I should be in a
00:58:02
different place right now with how much work I've put in but the the mentality
00:58:06
still stays the same for me as as long as I'm I'm in this game I'm I'm not
00:58:12
going to I'm not going to give this up without a fear crack like my manager called me the
00:58:17
other day and said you know again without trying to get sued or say too much stuff about what was going on he
00:58:23
said you know like the your project hasn't had a a proper run like there's there hasn't
00:58:31
been the situation where everyone who's worked on your projects has said we've
00:58:35
given the Mitch James thing a full Vlog and it just hasn't worked so until I
00:58:41
have that feeling of man I really have given it all I had a clean run everything finally lined up and I gave
00:58:48
it a crack and it didn't work until that moment I'm gonna be a psycho like my mum
00:58:54
I love it I'm pleased you're a psycho yeah I think it's a good way to be okay
00:58:58
track three on the oven patients Armageddon hey yeah it's a different vibe this one
00:59:04
there's a line in there to sex real quick there's a line a line in there
00:59:08
which I love it's very clever um I feel like it's something you could buy from from a t-shirt a t-shirt on
00:59:14
wish or something it's just you and I and Baby I'ma getting you tonight yeah yeah I love it
00:59:21
it's just like a happy what is that yes I mean I wrote the song about my my ex
00:59:26
and um you know all of her friends you know they're they're all [ __ ] stunning
00:59:31
girls and they're you know they all they all love it and they they all love the fact that the the
00:59:37
songs about them but um you know I was writing this song with with Machu from from 660 and we um I was just uh it was
00:59:48
a joke first that line I was because it's a great line it was it was covered
00:59:52
times and lockdown times and we had the idea of like you know feels like Armageddon and then I was
00:59:58
like what about you know I'm getting you tonight and he's like oh [ __ ] and so
01:00:04
yeah we just kind of ran with it and um yeah it's just a real fun song I I really enjoyed it because
01:00:12
um it's just it's it's just a laugh you know yeah it's a cheesy pickup line and
01:00:16
a song and it's great yeah but you know I love the lyrics in the in the verse
01:00:19
that are about you know it's it's basically just saying like [ __ ] there
01:00:23
could be a volcano exploding right in front of us and in the midst of a 9.6 Richter Scale earthquake but like you're
01:00:30
all that I see and it's just a fun way of delivering it and a bit tongue and
01:00:35
shake and I'd never [ __ ] ever say that to a girl in real life it's cheesy
01:00:39
it's [ __ ] awful I love it so how does it work when you write a song with um
01:00:45
say Machu from 660 who's who's holding the pen who's holding a guitar we just
01:00:50
go back and forth yeah um is insanely insanely gifted with Melody he can just he can just [ __ ] out something
01:00:59
like you know with Melody and I I when I'm working with him like you kind of
01:01:05
just pick your strengths like I I believe I'm strong with Melody but when I'm
01:01:10
if I'm going to chat with Melody with with Machi Walters I'm not winning that
01:01:14
battle so if and if I'm riding with my you know he'll hum some Melodies and or play some
01:01:21
chords and hum some stuff and I'll be like oh that [ __ ] Melody sounds great
01:01:24
write a write some lyrics to it and then we sort of just build it up slowly um but yeah and a lot of songwriting
01:01:32
sessions I I know my crew now and who I work with so I know all of their strengths and what sort of role I need
01:01:39
to play in the room and I'm just a bit of a chameleon at the moment with songwriting like with this last project
01:01:46
that I did that'll be coming out next that there's a guy called Ricky Manning
01:01:49
who I work with who's just the most insane sad songwriter ever and you just let him do the lyrics and you let him
01:01:57
you know take charge of that where I just go into like a quality control sort of role
01:02:03
um because you know he's so good but then you know if you're working with
01:02:06
people you've never worked before I will take complete control yeah of everything
01:02:10
but yeah I mean I've I've worked with some pretty some pretty crazy songwriters and it's just yeah you just
01:02:16
gotta know their strengths and sort of work around them and you get some pretty incredible results can you drop any
01:02:23
names who have you worked that with that people would go oh [ __ ] um uh there's been a few Grammy winners
01:02:28
um uh there's Emily Warren who's written some of The Chainsmokers songs she's
01:02:33
incredible Chelsea Grimes who's done Dua Lipa stuff and blackpink and she's
01:02:38
incredible um man the list goes on really honestly there's been some amazing ones I work
01:02:43
with Sophie Simmons um who's Gene Simmons's daughter um right I was just in LA and she is
01:02:49
incredible um yeah like there's there's so many amazing writers that I'm I'm lucky that
01:02:56
[ __ ] with me and I'm very grateful for that because it took seven years to find
01:03:01
the right crew yeah amazing uh next song on patience it's called Japan yes uh it
01:03:06
has lyrics like every night I end up on Instagram looking at pictures of you and
01:03:10
that picture of you in Japan it feels like it's a song about uh and I could be
01:03:14
wrong about this I don't know you're the songwriter um unrequited love someone
01:03:18
someone's overseas or you're looking at her wondering if she's thinking about
01:03:22
you so I'll give you the story though I'll give you the full story so um my first girlfriend who I've you know
01:03:29
touched on if he's touched on Jesus Christ um yeah so um I I've talked about her a little bit
01:03:41
and so basically um we were planning to go on a holiday to Japan and um and so Kim Jong-un was sending nukes
01:03:51
over over Japan at the time to to test like for some [ __ ] nuclear [ __ ] I don't know and I was kind of freaking
01:03:59
out about it um and so we didn't end up going to Japan we just stayed local um and then we were going to go to Japan
01:04:07
later on that year and then um and then she ended things with me and I um was at
01:04:14
band practice like a month or so later and uh went on Instagram and she was in Japan and there's this photo of her and
01:04:24
you know someone's taking the photo of her and she's looking all pretty and I'm
01:04:28
all upset about it and so uh I went over to uh Melbourne that weekend with um with my mate Mike Waters who I wrote a
01:04:36
lot of the first album with and um I just told him what was going on and we we just wrote this song and it was it's
01:04:43
just so hard to write for me at the time because I was so in love but I knew that
01:04:47
I'd [ __ ] it up so it was this you know helpless feeling and um just wanting to you know just knowing
01:04:54
how much you'd [ __ ] it up with someone you really loved and then seeing them do
01:04:59
what you plan together and knowing there's going to be a life for them without you it was it was all pretty
01:05:05
intense at the time it was a long time ago now yes I suppose this party that feels like you should have been taking
01:05:09
the photo exactly yeah yeah and um yeah it was I love the song it's it's a it's
01:05:16
a sad song and it's you know it is yeah unrequited love and everything but it's
01:05:21
it was a very important song I think just for me as a man and I think it would have been a shame if I didn't put
01:05:27
it on there but um yeah yeah it's another very real one I feel like they're all real
01:05:32
they really are as I said earlier it's like reading your diary or your journal
01:05:36
or something um so that's your very first girlfriend the one that has nothing to do with you
01:05:40
anymore yes right you're not friends on Instagram she's blocked you so you can
01:05:45
yeah yeah yeah yeah so you can't see them I'm very well blocked that is have you
01:05:57
have you talked to your therapist about that like do you need to write her a letter or oh yeah
01:06:02
we I think we just we just leave yeah okay yeah okay yeah but no she's a lovely girl she's a lovely girl you're
01:06:10
not still beating yourself up about you you need to forgive yourself right oh I've forgiven myself a long time ago
01:06:15
yeah but um took a while yeah okay next track Fade to Black um lyrics if the mirror is a stranger
01:06:24
and you're sinking like a ship in the sea well maybe soon or maybe later you'll be exactly where you're supposed
01:06:29
to be oh it's it's again another important one to me is uh I talked about Ricky earlier this is the
01:06:39
first song we wrote together and we just we both started this weird how songwriters were just so over emotional
01:06:47
as overshi everything I've just met Ricky and we're good friends now but
01:06:51
we're just basically sit in a room and I'm like uh I just made this dude no I don't
01:06:57
spend enough time with my mom and then he's like bro like neither I haven't
01:07:01
seen my mom in like two years and then so like oh I know what song we're writing and so we basically we just we
01:07:09
we head off on on the fact that we we both really missed our mums and it sort of molded into this song about how short
01:07:17
life is you know because Ricky felt like he'd seen his mum yesterday but it had
01:07:21
been two years and then um you know I I've my mum lives down in in Bannockburn
01:07:28
so I barely get to see her and um you know click your fingers and covered three years has gone your mum's three years
01:07:37
old and she's been sick and all of this it just really hit home to me that life
01:07:42
is is so precious and and so short that it fades to Black just just like that so it was yeah I wanted
01:07:50
to just have like a an acknowledgment of of my existential dread I guess I think um I think every every person
01:08:01
has that guilt about not doing enough or not seeing their appearance enough yeah
01:08:05
you know what I mean yeah like you talk about yourself in rookie I feel exactly the same way yeah it's like yeah yeah
01:08:11
yeah I feel like most people yeah it's a very relatable song yeah um are you so
01:08:16
your relationship's good with your parents now because uh you know your your mum's decision which came from a
01:08:22
good place really [ __ ] you up at um a key time in your life like when you're
01:08:26
at school um has she apologized for that oh yeah me and my me and my parents have never
01:08:32
been better which is which is amazing you know they've been through so much with their own Journeys and their health
01:08:38
and and just their lives the last you know since since we sell to rekindled our relationship that I've got you know
01:08:46
nothing but just love and admiration for them and you just get to a point in life
01:08:50
where you just you just realize that all the [ __ ] that you were holding is so stupid you know like when my mum told me
01:08:59
that she was sick it was it was almost like a light immediately just went off of like what the [ __ ] have I been being
01:09:07
salty about it you know like if if my mum were to to be gone like I would I would be completely regretful and
01:09:15
devastated for the rest of my life so yeah it's um no it's never been better
01:09:20
and it you know it was more honestly challenging with me and my old man like me and my I'm my mom always had a soft
01:09:28
spot for me no matter how [ __ ] things were like all mothers probably do yeah but you know it's it's been really nice
01:09:34
to to get to know my old man like a on a man-to-man level the last few years which I never really had I always sort
01:09:41
of despised them growing up for for you know immature and and young person reasons but it's it's [ __ ] awesome to
01:09:49
you know he was down at the gig on Saturday and I got to sit next to him and give him a hug and you know get him
01:09:55
to see me rock estate do your thing yeah why did you despise him growing up uh I
01:10:00
I think I was just a very I was a very how do I put a I was a private school kid you know what
01:10:10
I mean I I didn't have my head screwed on the right way I didn't have a right I
01:10:15
think I had too much expectation of the world um and expected [ __ ] to be given to me
01:10:22
when in this world you yeah nothing comes for free yeah absolutely nothing and I think that's what I learned from
01:10:27
the most at the end of the day is is that I just had to learn it in sort of the reverse Way by being a little
01:10:34
[ __ ] Auckland wanker okay next track we'll talk about your parents more there's a song coming up
01:10:41
called clouds uh where they they get a shout out but the next track on the album those were the days it felt like
01:10:47
we were lost but we were working it out those were the days would be nothing about no nothing without is this a love
01:10:52
song when you're falling in love again no this one this one was uh this was about my last girlfriend
01:11:00
um and you know again like I alluded to earlier like with any breakup you know there's personal things between you two
01:11:08
that you you'll like disagree on or you felt your hard done by or whatever and
01:11:13
you know I could have ridden a thousand songs about you know what went wrong or um or you know me trying to Taylor Swift
01:11:22
her or [ __ ] on her or whatever but I I felt like I didn't want to have like
01:11:27
that on my album you know I didn't want to have like negativity and like even if
01:11:32
it wasn't all positive at the end like I just wanted to have a song where it was
01:11:37
you know like not many people in my life will give this person love but like I feel like it's my duty to just it was
01:11:45
just like a little tribute to that that part of my life and you know like oh there's you know lyrics about laying
01:11:51
down by the couch and like you know we always used to do that yeah by the fire yeah with a dog and [ __ ] like that and
01:11:57
you know it's like stuff like that is you know even though you know I've I've
01:12:01
well moved past that it's it's still like a special thing to me and I didn't
01:12:05
want to just like [ __ ] on her and just because I I could you know yeah so yeah
01:12:10
I I just thought it would be nice to be nice and has has she heard it does she know it's about it yeah I'm sure she has
01:12:18
um and I I don't I haven't talked to her in a year but it's it's all love I'm
01:12:23
sure she knows it's about her well now she does how do you how do you have a song that's
01:12:29
written about you were you the you're the Muse or the subject or whatever you
01:12:32
call it and like do you not you don't tell let these people know you don't
01:12:36
give them a message saying hey no it depends it depends like there's been there's been times where I've been like
01:12:43
you know working on a girl if you will and I've written a song and I'm trying
01:12:47
to get myself in the good books but I I think like definitely like the the thereafters I I just
01:12:56
yeah I leave it yeah yeah it's more it's more for me is anyone ever that you've
01:13:01
written a song but ever reached out to you afterwards and said hey I heard that song I appreciate it or I forgive you or
01:13:07
no no no no no I mean as much as I would have loved those moments to happen that
01:13:11
they definitely haven't but I funnily enough I've had so I've heard so many [ __ ] stories
01:13:19
about girls claiming Sunday morning is about them and it is there's been a lot
01:13:24
of Saturday night girls for Mitch James yeah they're all that I'm I'm serious
01:13:28
like there's been about like five or six like ran random people that I've never
01:13:33
met that have claimed that this song is about them and the truth be told it's not even
01:13:39
really about anyone it's just we we I was in a songwriting session and we just
01:13:45
kind of went on this Vibe which is like one of the only real songs of mine that's not actually about a real story
01:13:51
but there's plenty of girls that are claiming it unbelievable yeah um okay the next song is called Cloud
01:13:58
it's um it's a dark song but it's another one that's very happy sounding
01:14:02
um some of the lyrics mum and dad are sick the cancer got them both my sister's slipping in and out it's hard
01:14:08
to keep her close um so you so your parents both had cancer they're both all right now though
01:14:13
yeah I mean uh they uh it's not really my place to say they kind of like got
01:14:20
all they've been a bit upset about how I've been open about in the past but I
01:14:25
mean they they uh I think I think they're going okay at the moment they they don't share too much and
01:14:32
um but yeah okay we don't have to talk about that but they do you like a song
01:14:36
like that where you mention it do you do they know or do they hear it when it comes out no I didn't I didn't I didn't
01:14:43
really talk to um them about it because I was scared I was gonna get a serving um oh yeah the song's really good and I
01:14:50
don't want to take it off the album so what do they say are they mad about it
01:14:53
when they hear us or what no we haven't really talked about it I think they understand that it's just part of my art
01:14:58
and part of what I have to do to express myself and I think they've come a long
01:15:02
way with that because you know it's an adjustment for them to like I've been
01:15:06
click baited about my parents and [ __ ] before and um it really [ __ ] me off to a deep
01:15:12
core level and you know having to like call them and explain this it's not I
01:15:16
was trying to say and blah blah blah um but you know that I think they're sort
01:15:19
of just learning on the job too and it's um it's it's novel for for everyone you
01:15:24
know it's uh yeah it's it's certainly not every day that this happens so we're
01:15:30
all kind of just learning on the job oh 100 100 it's a surreal situation to be
01:15:35
in and when you suddenly you realize that oh okay everything that you read about is not necessarily true and yeah
01:15:41
yeah it's tough um there's another line in Cloud I've been getting faded since
01:15:44
the day I turned 11 what's faded like wasted no um what's faded faded well
01:15:49
faded can have many minis for me and my friends it's like getting high like um
01:15:53
have you not have you been getting faded since 11 you smoke weed at 11. this is nearly sound bad
01:16:02
but tender tendon rhyme as well all right yeah so it's also oh my God again with who so I the first of all so the
01:16:17
first time I got drunk was I I was in New Years when I was 10. and um yeah that's that's shocking it's
01:16:27
bad yeah yeah um and then well to be honest like me and my mates were we were we were drinking most weekends
01:16:34
from when we were 13. it's not like something I'd obviously [ __ ] when I have
01:16:38
kids I'll definitely be on to that but you know I've been a I've been a little rascal for a long time
01:16:45
yeah yes I've always been a been a weed smoker always been a bit of a drinker
01:16:52
but you know the drinking now is nowhere near what it used to be it's just like a you know when we're on we're
01:16:59
on sort of thing but it's um yeah like I think that song is basically it's kind
01:17:05
of just like uh in a way it's like stuck in denial and saying like you know you might think
01:17:10
that this life is perfect it's it's it's far from it um and you know so it's essentially the
01:17:17
song is saying like sometimes I just can't be [ __ ] being alive and dealing
01:17:20
with all the stress that that comes with it sometimes I just want to be a cloud and float up there and you know just
01:17:26
just [ __ ] relax for a bit um there was it was one that I was actually very very iffy to put on the album because I
01:17:34
just felt like [ __ ] like I know it was such a personal song yeah I was like I know I do personal [ __ ] but this is like
01:17:40
kind of by far the most personal like you know I open the song by saying mum and dad are sick cancer got them both my
01:17:47
sister's slipping in and out it's hard to keep her close you want a girlfriend
01:17:50
I don't know if I could call it out she won't call me back yeah and then I talk
01:17:54
about my friend who who killed himself and and all of that it's it's a pretty
01:17:58
intense song yeah if anyone wants to look look it up um you can pause the podcast and it's called Cloud yeah since
01:18:04
my homie went to heaven I've been in a Great Depression looking back at every
01:18:07
message what was that that wasn't a suicide wasn't it yeah it was yeah yeah
01:18:11
I'm sorry how old uh I think tea was uh 28 at the time 28 29 maybe um but yeah no I was it was it was very
01:18:21
sad I've got his initials tattooed on me and he's always always close to me but
01:18:26
it's um yeah you know it's like I said you know it's just been so much uh
01:18:30
behind the scenes uh consistent challenges personal life career that you know I've popped up in in the
01:18:40
last four years and I feel like you know it's got to be my duty to to be honest
01:18:44
about it and sing about it put some light on my issues so hopefully you know it's a bit easier for other people to
01:18:49
deal with theirs and think that you know they're not just gonna listen to my
01:18:53
music and think like I'm some uh detached [ __ ] Rich dude who's in you know the Rolex store all day laughing at
01:19:01
all the peasants listening to his music yeah it's yeah that's yeah I think I
01:19:06
just really wanted to shine a light on on the fact that man it's odd for everyone out here it is it is but that's
01:19:13
on cloud ends with um staring at the bright blue skies which I feel like is a nod to one of your older songs which is
01:19:19
great staring at the bright blue skies I got a brand new lease on life can finally fall asleep at night I'll be
01:19:25
okay I'll be fine so it's kind of like a happy ending yeah I think that's like that um
01:19:33
septum whatever fate you have and treating it with as a positive experiences I think that's probably the
01:19:39
main theme that I that's been drilled Into Me by the universe the last four years it's like it's like you know when
01:19:46
are you gonna pick this up we keep [ __ ] throwing [ __ ] at you like you either yeah it's I don't think there's a
01:19:51
I'm paraphrasing here but there's like a great stoic quote that says you know
01:19:55
basically the only thing you can control in any situation is your attitude towards it and that's what I'm just
01:20:02
trying to learn it's I'm not preaching like I've mastered it but it's
01:20:06
definitely something that keeps popping up and that I have to keep trying oh yeah this is an amazing book too called
01:20:11
man search for meaning by a guy called Victor Frankel uh said in the constant one of the concentration camps of the
01:20:16
second world war and that's the that's the main sort of three door message in
01:20:19
that one as well yeah bloody good yeah for sure um second to last track home is lonely
01:20:26
um I feel like this is and I could be again completely wrong this is about friends turning on you because they're
01:20:30
jealous of your success yeah yeah um man this is a [ __ ] Deep album isn't it no it's good though I feel like
01:20:38
I'm like a lot of people probably just listen to the songs and not really pay
01:20:40
attention to the lyrics but when you when you deep dive into it there's a there's a lot going you're sharing a lot
01:20:45
uh it [ __ ] kills me to say it I had to lose you to change me I feel so lost and I hate it I hate to lose you to
01:20:53
change me yeah it's well at the story behind this is I had um you know I had like four really close
01:21:01
mates growing up and um and basically uh you know two of them I'm I'm still very
01:21:09
close with um one of them where we're very different people and we just hang out
01:21:13
every now and then but we're very close and the others like my best mate and um
01:21:17
the other two basically you know we we will ride or die and we we're you know
01:21:23
every day after school and you know get in the car you know by 50 smoke some weed chill out and sort of forget the
01:21:30
rest of our problems of the world and we'll you know a little Band of Brothers
01:21:33
and then um uh basically um when when I got uh one of the stories I can't tell because I'll probably get
01:21:42
arrested but but um so one of my friends uh the story that I won't get into too
01:21:49
much basically uh I had some stuff that I was uh going to pass on to other people which he uh
01:21:57
stole um and decided to do which which this song is mostly about is um uh you know my
01:22:06
he was trying to get with My First Girlfriend by telling her that I'd been cheating on her
01:22:12
um and basically was talking a bunch of [ __ ] about me while I was away chasing
01:22:17
my dreams um then I forgave him and then he um he tried to do the same thing to my
01:22:23
girlfriend again um and basically you know the my two of my best friends who I had grown up with
01:22:30
had just completely betrayed me um and you know thrown me under the bus and you know insinuating that I'd you
01:22:38
know turn into a wanker and changed and and left them when all I needed was sort
01:22:44
of you know some friends to confide in and and you know hear me out for how much my life is changing and and how
01:22:50
hectic it's been and but instead you know that um they got jealous and and went the other way and sort of acted
01:22:57
immaturely and out of pocket um and it just uh yeah it took me years and years to write the song write the
01:23:05
song about it um because in my mind it was just like well [ __ ] them you know like uh so I didn't really give it much
01:23:12
thought and um until yeah we we wrote this song about yeah it would have been about a
01:23:18
year ago now and it just it just felt like cathartic because you know I'd moved on and I was ready to just
01:23:26
you know leave this in the past but I knew that so many people would be able to relate to you know as you as you
01:23:32
charge on to the next phase of your life there's gonna be there's going to be collateral damage
01:23:37
and there's going to be people that have to be left behind and you can't take
01:23:41
everyone with you because their evolution is going to go at a different pace and my dream was to you know again
01:23:48
like we were watching Wiz Khalifa videos all the way growing up my dream was to take the take these boys with me
01:23:54
wherever I went and you know roll like Entourage [ __ ] yeah yeah exactly and um you know it wasn't it
01:24:01
wasn't meant to be and I've pieced it with the um with uh with one of the
01:24:06
dudes and we're we're friends again but um you know the dude who was trying to
01:24:10
get with my girlfriend and stuff and uh telling everyone I I've [ __ ] changed
01:24:16
without getting into too much detail he's uh he's on the uh the punch on site
01:24:21
list really wow oh no he's not right oh you know what I mean it just dear to you
01:24:28
though like there's nothing there yeah nothing yeah yeah and that that happens
01:24:32
I feel like there's um you know everyone's changing all the time and uh you take some people with you and then
01:24:38
some people your life is just going in a different path or different Destiny and
01:24:42
and it happens and it's it's it's weird I think in your teens or 20s but as you
01:24:45
get older you realize it's just um part of the even flow of life exactly yeah I
01:24:49
think I'm as I get on I'm starting to understand that a bit more is that yeah
01:24:53
everyone's just on their different journey and it's um yeah yeah I'm I'm
01:24:58
quite happy with with where I'm at with with friends and family at the moment
01:25:02
and I I feel like you know the smaller the circle almost the better really and you can really trust those people then
01:25:09
that's been massive for me over the last few years you know there's a lot of
01:25:13
people that try to be a new friend and um I'm not much of a believer in that
01:25:18
unless you can really show and back it up yeah yeah there's a quote I saw that
01:25:22
I really like it says um people come into your life for a reason a season or a lifetime so it's family's lifetime
01:25:27
yeah and then maybe this guy that um that's on your punch on site list there's a reason for that maybe you've
01:25:33
got a valuable listen out of it well yeah I am where I am today because of a lot of that stuff and yeah I wouldn't
01:25:39
rather be anywhere else and you know of course you'd love to be playing Wembley
01:25:43
Stadium but I'm a big believer you were exactly where you meant to be so yeah
01:25:47
there's a lot of a lot of exciting challenges coming up and I'm excited for
01:25:52
it and but yeah I mean in terms of this song I just I just felt like it was something that needed to be said and you
01:25:59
know I I had to lose you to change me as a very sort of powerful statement that can be applied in a lot of people's
01:26:07
lives you know again it's that Amor Fati thing you know when when you gotta approach everything that comes across
01:26:14
your plate and view it with positive eyes so yeah it's a a tough one a very emotional one but yeah glad that it's
01:26:23
out in the world and I don't have to deal with that [ __ ] anymore and the last song on the album Patience
01:26:29
Stone Cold Sober this is another one written with um much who Walters From Success yeah and you wrote it real quick
01:26:34
like 15 minutes 20 minutes yeah there is one more of the song on the album that's
01:26:39
there yeah bullet holes but um but oh yeah oh there is too yeah yeah yeah you mean yeah we'll get to okay bullet holes
01:26:46
here yeah so Stone Cold Sober though is um yeah we were in LA and um we're actually writing another song and
01:26:54
um we uh we had a little midday doobie break and we we thought you know we'll
01:27:01
just switch up The Vibes a little bit and and much you came back in and just started um multi-strumming these chords
01:27:07
and it just sounded [ __ ] beautiful and um he started humming and he says leave Clover and I was like whoa bro
01:27:19
hold the [ __ ] phone like what are you doing there bro um and so we just he just kept playing
01:27:25
these chords and we just eked it out in 20 minutes and it just felt really right
01:27:30
and really special to me at the time and yeah it was Machu is incredibly talented
01:27:36
he he really is he's like when it comes to Raw Talent and like when I write songs I really have to
01:27:43
[ __ ] slave for them but Martin is just his gift today and yeah we got that done in in 20 minutes and yeah it's
01:27:52
still probably one of my favorites yeah what's it about there's a lyric I feel I
01:27:56
feel like in a past life you and I had something golden yeah I think I have a song about a girl yeah it is yeah I I
01:28:03
think if I'm honest that that song was inspired by my uh the first girl really yeah yeah
01:28:12
you see nothing we can do with that relationship no she's long gone I'm all good I'm I'm a happy man right
01:28:19
now Don right but you see you just sort of use her as do you just like like draw
01:28:24
energy from that relationship and use her as like a muse even though you know there's nothing there or you know you
01:28:29
can never be with her I I think it's like changed in terms of my mentality like
01:28:38
when that ended it was the biggest Catalyst for change that I've ever had in my life I was like [ __ ] I need to
01:28:44
like become a man I can't I can't keep drinking three or four times a week and
01:28:50
going out and partying and like getting with girls and being a [ __ ] [ __ ] boyfriend like I can't do that so every
01:28:58
time I think about that moment it's more like the challenge and the inspiration
01:29:03
to be the best version of myself because I slept into the worst version of myself
01:29:07
and from that moment I had to turn it around and go [ __ ] like the onus is on You No One's Gonna Save you no special
01:29:14
rules apply to you you're getting fat um yeah you know like I just had to turn
01:29:21
it around and so I think it's not it's not this it's although like there's
01:29:25
always love for that person it's more actually just what the situation represents to me and and how the person
01:29:31
that she fell in love with initially yeah and then I and and that obviously slipped away it's not that I'm trying to
01:29:37
get back to that person it's just like an inspiration of trying to be like man
01:29:42
I always need to be pushing every single day to be better and that's again that's
01:29:46
why like running is so important to me as well to show up every day and just try and get that little bit better than
01:29:52
yesterday it's yeah it sort of just applies in a general sense yeah with her
01:29:57
as yeah I guess it still shows through a lot of the music even though it's been
01:30:01
years and and the last time bullet holes is that about her as well yeah I still think about it all the time you never
01:30:08
really left my mind it's been years and I just wish you'd call [ __ ] maybe I just lied to you
01:30:16
through my teeth now yeah I I do remember that day when I wrote that song though I um I was I was I was feeling
01:30:25
very lonely um and uh 660 were playing and I was on that tour but I wasn't on that gig and I
01:30:31
wanted to be on that gig that day so I just sat down on the edge of my bed and just just wrote a song and it was
01:30:37
probably just yeah it was another quick one it was about an hour and wow yeah it's the only song on the album I wrote
01:30:43
totally by myself which um I don't know if people listening you know you'd
01:30:49
actually be surprised to find that it's probably only like 0.5 of the songs that
01:30:53
ever get released they're written by one person and so as a songwriter I also
01:30:57
felt like it was a a Judy of mine to like show yeah I can [ __ ] write a good song just by myself and just prove that
01:31:04
to myself but but also you know I started the album with motions and saying I'm lost I'm going through the
01:31:10
motions and I don't know what to do but the last song of bullet holes is this
01:31:15
like acceptance of saying well now I've got to move on like and I think it summarizes the album perfectly of you
01:31:23
know basically what this album is is like my last four years that have been a complete mess and me trying to make
01:31:29
sense of it and so at the start I'm like [ __ ] I'm lost and by the end I'm saying
01:31:34
like yeah I'm still lost but I've found a way through it in my mind where I can
01:31:40
I can attack the next thing and leave all of these stories and leave all of these emotions and and all of that in
01:31:47
the past and uh what the the next album looks like is as a complete transition from that just sort of dark period which
01:31:56
is all a bit of a mumble in my head to to something a bit more clear and and look there's a lot of clarity and you
01:32:04
know there's a lot more fun on this on this next album there's a song called
01:32:07
day for it which is um you know I'll let you do the math yeah yeah so it's yeah it was just a
01:32:14
very cathartic period and I'm I'm glad that it's I'm glad that it's over I'm
01:32:18
glad that you know that's the last record that I would would be with my old record label with it and it just feels
01:32:25
like now I've I've got a clear path and what's starting to clear up it's been
01:32:30
been very muddy and very hard and [ __ ] frustrating and challenging but you know I think if I could give one
01:32:37
message out I guess is just that's what we're talking about before about the
01:32:40
resiliency and the perseverance and just the that dogged fight to to no matter what just keep the [ __ ] goal in mind
01:32:49
and no matter how much [ __ ] gets in your way you just have to keep going and and
01:32:52
I I guess that's where I'm at now is yeah just um making sure that this next
01:32:58
album and this next chapter is is representative of me fully and and where I'm at and no [ __ ] No Labels trying
01:33:06
to dress me up or or make me someone I'm not and it's it's just been a crazy old
01:33:11
journey and a crazy old game and I got into it very young I didn't think I was
01:33:16
young you know being 20 21 but in reality you know this from being in the game for
01:33:20
for so long as well it's pretty [ __ ] young the older you get you realize the
01:33:25
less you know yeah and the exciting thing about life is that continues as well um I just turned 50 the other week and I
01:33:32
still realize I Know Jack actually like a day over 51 I'm a kid [ __ ] get back
01:33:37
it's a great album though mate patience um it's really good and it's um it is
01:33:42
very very honest so it'll be interesting to see your perspective in you know 10
01:33:45
15 years from now like whether you're like super proud of it as a snapshot of
01:33:50
your life as a guy in his mid-20s or if you'd like embarrassed about it or you
01:33:53
cringe I expect there'll be a combination of both yeah well I mean you're always going to cringe a little
01:33:58
bit about [ __ ] you know it's where you were at at one point in time when you're not
01:34:03
you're not so there's songs on the first album I'm like [ __ ] did I even why did I
01:34:08
release that well it but you know it's all part of the artist's journey and
01:34:13
yeah it's it's all good I I feel like I'm gonna it's taken me up until really about this
01:34:20
point which I'm when you think about I'm like six seven years deep in in the game
01:34:24
which is kind of crazy to think about um makes me feel [ __ ] old um but it's
01:34:30
yeah it's it's I feel I finally feel at that place now where I I just have an
01:34:34
understanding of of who I am as a man firstly and like can separate that from an artist and and I just know that how
01:34:42
to do it on my terms and that I am going to do it on my terms so it's exciting
01:34:46
but it's um you know it's it's a very challenging game and it's certainly not
01:34:51
all [ __ ] uh cocaine and hookers for sure well that's the thing even if it's old
01:34:57
cocaine and hook is after a while that becomes it becomes boring doesn't it because that certainly does yeah it's
01:35:01
all about balance so certainly does like I've got sick of cocaine just can't afford either of them either
01:35:10
all right trust me I cannot um James I bloody love you and I love your work and I'm really really proud of
01:35:17
what you've done and it's been great to sit down with you and uh you're going on
01:35:20
tour soon so uh we're gonna get to hear these songs live which is a real treat
01:35:24
yeah you know I'm excited it's always amazing to get back out and play live
01:35:28
and played a headline show of mine owning three [ __ ] four years coming up now so
01:35:35
um thank you covered but it's um yeah I'm really excited to just feel that
01:35:39
energy again and and get out with with the people who have um you know are the reason why I get to sit here and talk to
01:35:45
you and instead of you know working in a normal job so I'm I'm extremely grateful
01:35:50
and just yeah can't wait to feel that connection again and and just give my all on stage and yeah lots of new music
01:35:58
coming out which is which is you know again very honest but in a more sort of I guess uh I guess you'd call it happier
01:36:06
and more open way but um yeah it's I think the the artist's job is to always be as open and as
01:36:14
vulnerable as possible even if that means it's a little bit ugly so I think I've Got My Cry album out the way and
01:36:21
next time we got the day for it party oh yeah it's nice nice well as someone who
01:36:27
um feels like they're quite similar to you personality wise but with a few more
01:36:30
miles a lot more miles on the clock um just be kind to yourself okay thank you brother and likewise likewise you're
01:36:37
a good dude you've got a good heart um yeah I don't want you I don't want to
01:36:41
feel like you're beating yourself up about things that you've done no yeah
01:36:44
absolutely it's it's it's it's a fun job because you get to reflect you know
01:36:49
um then you get to see um all of the amazing things that you've worked for out in front of you so I'm
01:36:56
very excited about the future and not too much dwelling on the past so we're
01:37:00
we're all good you leave that poor X alone yeah I love you mate [Music] thank you
01:37:30
[Music]