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Mark Longley welcome to my podcast thank you for having me um I said um before nice to meet you but it turns out we've
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met before you um interviewed me for a magazine called brass I know yeah I was I was trying to think when it was it
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would have been around 2007 so quite a long time ago just it was just on a cafe in ponsonby I don't know why I remember
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it so well but I just when I heard when you you invited me on here I flashed back back to that it's amaz yeah BR sort
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like a New Zealand ver very shortlived magazine sort like a New Zealand version of um FHM or Max more Ralph yeah like a
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men's magazine it was yeah briefly yeah oh god well I regret being in brass and
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you regret working for brass I do yeah it was quite a good interview though we were talking about how to get into radio
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right so I think you gave some good tips right my my advice now would be don't
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get into radio it's um an eroding industry um how are you today good yeah I really appreciate being on the podcast
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um yeah um Bella who does some guest booking for me she reached out to you um after we saw the the man hunt show on
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tvnz plus which is I mean it's harrowing it's yeah it's it's not an easy watch
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and I can't imagine um it's easy for you to be a part of let alone watching it no
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it was it was challenging it was two days of solid filming obviously talking in great depth about about Emily and
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what had happened to her and it's it's kind of hard because you know I like to
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think of Emily now of the good times and the my daughter and and the happy times
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we had I don't like to focus on what happened too much and of course that drags you back through in quite painful
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detail about what happens it's when when when someone who you love deeply dies
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you you can't dwell on what happened for too long it'll just eat away at you you
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have to kind of move past that and so doing things like that just takes me right back to
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those awful days of of finding out and the the trial everything so it's not pleasant but but I think one of the
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really pleasing things for me about it was since it's it showed on in England a
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CLE a year ago now it was in New Zealand I had a lot of people contact me say they're going to they're talking to
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their daughters or their sons about about good relationships and what a healthy relationship is so that that's
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kind of why I do it I wanted to spread the word a bit about this this stuff exists it's out there and you've got to
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kind of prepare your kids bo boys and girls to stop it happening again yeah there's so much to um to discuss with
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you because um I mean one thing that's striking for me is just how um dignified you've been about the whole
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thing even even when you when you're talking about you know the the um um you
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the the the the young man that killed your daughter like it's yeah you've just
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been so measured like every step of the way it seems and I I just you know like I I I suppose I projector try and put
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myself in your shoes and I think you know would I be like Mark in this situation and the answer I come up with
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was like absolutely [ __ ] not it wasn't always like that like there were times when I wasn't so measured but I
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just think you know I thought very early on that there was a lot of noise around
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what happened it was a big media story in in England down here there was a lot of noise around it there was a big
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police investigation a trial and I just thought you know Emily was very dign IED
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in the way she conducted herself she was very kind of yeah she was very dignified
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and she was very giving and and I just kind of wanted to honor that really I didn't I didn't want to she would have
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been embarrassed had I lost the plot or been renting and raving so I just it was
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really to honor her I wanted to I just wanted to be dignified and kind of calm and measured um to honor her and and
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also it's like if someone said to you someone's murdered your daughter your
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your instant reaction is I'm going to go [ __ ] kill him yeah and [ __ ] kill
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him yeah but that doesn't that makes that brings you down to their level you
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know he murdered my daughter and if I killed him it would make me know better than him so it was just another way of
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of reacting towards him and his family his parents covered it up and we were all in court together and I just wanted
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to look them in the eye and and and just be dignified and think I'm I'm better
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than you I wouldn't have done what you did and and so it was just important to
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me to to have that kind of upper hand on them yeah oh you're a good man does does
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time heal all all wounds as the saying goes no not at all what what happens do you just like
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develop the capacity to deal with it or you just you you find a way I mean there's a number of things that happen
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at first it's it's massively consuming it's like being stuck in a in a in a
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whirlwind you're just being tossed around all over the place you don't know
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where is up or down you don't know what the time is you don't know what day it
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is and and you gradually get a bit of control back and and you find you find ways that you can kind of rebalance
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yourself and then you just learn to live with it like I'm I'm sad about Emily
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every day I'm I'm sad I'm I'm sitting here talking about her now I'd much
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rather be going home and seeing her you know seeing her at home but I I think about her every day but I've just I I I
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can go about my daily life and and and kind of deal with that but also you know there's that there's that saying that
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grief is the price you pay for love or something I which which I don't agree
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with but grief is part of love you know the more you love someone the more you'll miss them when they when they're
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not here and and that that grief still connects me to Emily if I sto being sad it would mean I stop loving her and I
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don't so I'm kind of happy I'm still sad if that makes sense yeah yeah absolutely
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no makes perfect sense and so at what point so it was um it was 2011 it's it's
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easy for me to time time stamp this and probably the same for a lot of people listening because that was the the Rugby
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World Cup year here in New Zealand so it was 2011 at at at what point did you you
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decide to you like almost become like a white ribbon campaigner and make her death mean something something bigger I
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just it was pretty quickly afterwards actually I I I got back and I actually I read David White's book I don't know if
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you know David white but his daughter Helen Mees was was shot by her husband and and David wrote a book and and I at
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at the time I thought I'm the saddest person in the world like why was me and
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I read David's book and I thought actually there's other people who gone
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through this and and he talked about white ribbon in the book so I I got in touch with white ribbon because I I kind
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of I wanted to do something that educated men this was another another fact about Emily's death was Elliot
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Turner murdered her but as you saw in that documentary he he practiced killing her with his friends he he went out
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looking for her in nightclubs with his friends he was he was very vocal about what he was going to do he told them he
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was going to kill them and I'm like well why did no one Reign him in you know if
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my mate said that to me I'd say mate you're out of order so I thought there there there's
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something wrong here with with with the way men are behaving with each other if if they're he's going out with a hammer
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saying he's going to kill her and they're just going along with her with
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with him sorry so I kind of wanted to do something that spoke to men I thought I'll I'll I'll I'll try and address this
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with men and white ribbon speaks to men so I I got involved with white ribbon and we ended up setting up the white
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ribbon trust but it's it's it's hard going now because I I actually left it about a
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year ago but I think it's closed down now which is sad but You' yeah I mean
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whatever the whatever the name of the charity is um just the the awareness and um you the face uh and the message that
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you've put to it is um like a a measurable it's just huge yeah and and Al also Emily's case was a big you know
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it was big news in New Zealand so I thought well I can leverage off that and and do some good with it it was you know
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for a while um I could I could be on things and and I could just raise awareness that way and so I just thought
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I'd leverage off it and also it was just a way for me personally just to keep her
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name alive you know I I just dreaded people to stop talking about her I just thought that that would be horrendous
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now I'm quite pleased we don't talk better quite so much but yeah why why so
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uh it gets draining yeah after a while yeah just emotionally T yeah it is yeah yeah like like like this will be I'll
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I'll pay for this later it'll be quite draining lat not in a bad way but I'll
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be quite tired in in an hour or so yeah understandable I appreciate you doing it
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um okay so um paint a picture um for me of Emily like who who was she this I've
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got a photo here um this is sort of the photo that was in the in the you know in
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the news coverage yeah um she looks mischievous yeah you know I I I used to tease her that she had the face of an
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Angel and and the the soul of the devil because because she um you know she was she was beautiful but boy was
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she she was mischievous yeah yeah I mean this this photo was she she had been living in England um for six months and
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she came back to New Zealand for Easter and this is at her mother's house and
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her mother and I were separated and she was just sitting there and Caroline said you look so beautiful I'm
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going to take a picture of you and so Emily just pulled that that just pulled that smile which is kind of she's she's
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taking the piss a little bit oh she her pointing a camera at her um and yeah you
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know I didn't for a minute imagine this would be shown all over the place but
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but she was you know Emily Emily was born in 1994 I think in London and you know she was this I was
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kind of young 25 and she was a bit of a surprise um and I remember the night she
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was born was quite a long labor and they she was born and and um they wrapped her up in a tow and they gave
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her to me to hold and I I I sat there with her and her head was in my hand and her feet were here and I just looked at
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her for hours which it just seemed like hours and and I just thought this is it's the most incredible thing like
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everybody has their their firstborn story and it's incredible for everyone mine's not unique but it was just the
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most beautiful moment and you know she was um when she was about 18 months old she was
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diagnosed with a with with low bone density so she used to break her bones fairly easily and she also suffered
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quite badly from um hay fever and Asthma so she had these chared ailments that would hold a kid back but it just made
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her more kind of determined to to to do what she wanted to do and and so she she
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built up this incredible Drive to End determination that was honestly a nightmare to
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parents but and I used to think you know this is hard work now but this is going
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to stand you in really good stead when you're older because you're just not
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going to give up you're going to you're going to go for what you want and you're
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going to do it and she would argue with me like three or four years old she'd be
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arguing with me about why she couldn't do this why she couldn't do that and and
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and and I you know but at the same time I loved it I thought I've got this kind
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of you know she's not just like I'm her dad and she's my child she's doing
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everything I tell she's she's challenging me and we learn about life together and and you know we were really
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we were really close with the same sense of humor and and she she was very cheeky very mischievous
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um always getting in trouble at school you know she at one school in England they did a massive fundraising I
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shouldn't laugh about this because it was not good at the time did a massive
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fundraising for a new netball uh surface for the netb um Court put it down everyone was very proud of
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it and Emily went out and picked bits of tar out of the net and and and and I think she
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scratched her name in it as well or something and she was like I don't know nine or 10 at this time and and I said
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why'd you do it I don't know I just felt like it she she went to the library one
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time and I think for a punishment and so she rearranged all the books so she put
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all the RS in the Zeds and all the Zeds and the M's and the librarian came in
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and and went crazy and called me down to school and I'm like why did you do that
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Emily I don't know I was just I was in detention I was bored so she yeah yeah
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it was was all this but at the same time you know very loving very loving very kind of really good company really good
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I mean I just really enjoyed being her father it was just really good fun and and I'm it you know we we had to we had
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to grow into this together and she she's the reason you guys moved to New Zealand
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right because of the health issues you moved here for the bit year bit of climate yeah yeah was a big part of it
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her specialist said we should move out of London which is because a lot of it was triggered by
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pollution so Caroline and I had both been here before so we thought why don't
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we try New Zealand which is about as far out of London as you can get so we we came over here for a holiday and it it
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was just you know she was in a school in London that was surrounded by a big wall
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and there were no there was no Greenery and at the end of the day the teacher opened a door in the wall and the kids
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fed out and it was it was always gray and they never there weren't fields or
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anything and we came here and her first school was in harrii and uh on the North
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Shore and all the kids came running out across the green fields without any shoes on and I thought yeah this is a
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much better environment for Emily just that Outdoors active the weather's good
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you know you're not you're not inside for six months of the year and she and
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she really blossomed here yeah what sort of um was she into sports or music she loved to sports yeah yeah what sports
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she loved she she loved running she loved Triathlon she did she rode for a long time um she she was very Physically
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Active she was one of these kids that that had to get if she didn't do something active in the day she'd be
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going pulling her hair out by night you know she she she loved she loved to be physically active
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and what about what about music who was who was she into who was big in like 2011 she was in she was into Justin
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Bieber aren't we all yeah she was into Kaner I'm trying to think what we played
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at her funeral we we got Tunes off her she was just into that kind of yeah I can't think what was around 20110 yeah
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yeah she did like her music she didn't play anything I'm not sure she had the
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discipline to play m play something but she just loved she loved being outside she loved the beach yeah um she loved
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she loved her friends unfortunately as she got older she loved partying as well but yeah she just loved
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life it was a great a great irony I thought that she was desperate to get to 18 so she could go clubbing legally and
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she died you know just a month before 18th birthday it's funny that the way I
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I feel like that's um fairly standard sort of behavior for like a lot of you
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know 16 17 year olds you know that write a passage becoming that old where you just want to be older you get to our age
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and you'd give to be a little bit younger yeah yeah yeah just 10 10 years younger would be great yeah so um yeah
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so so she she she moved back to the UK cuz she got into a college there so she was staying with her grandparents yeah
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and then um came uh back to New Zealand in April 2011 and this is the this is the last time you saw her yeah yeah yeah
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she came back in for Easter that year yeah so she she'd been in England for six months she was she was really
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enjoying it really doing well like it was a really difficult I was thinking about it on this morning it was a really
00:16:02
tough decision to let her go over there but again she seems like it wasn't your
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decision it wasn't really no and she set the whole thing up and arranged it and
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and you know I was just really when she came back I was really proud of her that
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she'd gone she was very close to my parents and she used to fly back there quite a lot but I was really proud of
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her that she'd gone over there and set up this life for herself and she was doing well at college and and and she
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came back and she'd kind of transformed she'd gone over a girl and she'd come
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back this this kind of young woman and she was very confident and and and it was just it was so good to see her yeah
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what are your Reflections now on that time together in that last visit just that it was there's a few of them just
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that it was really nice like um I was living in fuani at the time and she her mother was living in ockland and Emily
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stayed with me part of the time and then with Caroline part of the time but I came up to ockland one weekend and just
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rented an apartment and Emily came to stay and her and I went out for dinner it had a really nice dinner and then we
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went for a couple of drinks and and we had a couple of beers and smoked a couple of cigarettes and it and
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it was just a really together together yeah it was just a really nice I think that's um yeah that's I mean she was 17
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so it says a lot about the relationship though it seems like you had a real good
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yeah it was just like it was something you know you always want to you can't
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wait to take your kids out for the first kind of legal and I did it a bit early but it was just really nice and
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and and she was you know Emily was quite kind of glamorous she was quite too young to be glamorous but she was always
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nicely dressed and had her hair done nicely but also at home she was she was just she would let herself go and not
00:17:47
let herself go but she would relax track pants yeah track pants and and no makeup
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and so it was really nice to see that she was still like that and and she was still still the kid time yeah yeah and
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we went for a really nice be walk on the beach one night and just chatted about life and and you know she didn't really
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talk too much about Elliot Turner then even though they were kind of in a relationship but there were always Boys
00:18:11
around her so I I just thought this was another guy who was hanging around her but she just seemed really happy and
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we've been through quite a quite a turbulent time with Cara and I separating which had really affected
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Emily and we were together you know we spent a bit of time all of us together and I
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thought this is nice cuz we we can all get on again now and we've kind of got
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through that really bad part and we're all quite settled in our lives again and
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it was just a really nice moment and and of course it was shortlived but I just remember being
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really happy and I was so happy to see Emily it was I missed her so much it was it was it was I was so happy to see her
00:18:53
can you remember um did you take her to the airport or can you remember can you remember your like your your last
00:18:59
goodbye because it's it's funny know you thought she was just going back to the
00:19:01
UK but you didn't know it was going to be the last goodbye yeah no you know the
00:19:05
last place I saw Emily was in the McDonald's car park in pyroa and and the last meal like she
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loved her food and we had some great meals together like we would go out for dinner all the time and our last meal
00:19:18
was [ __ ] McDonald's in pyroa you nothing against people love McDonald's but it could have been a you
00:19:25
know could have been at a Thai restaurant or a Chinese restaurant I could have remembered it and and there's
00:19:28
literally like I drive through pyro quite a bit on the way to teranga and I still stop at the McDonald's and there's
00:19:34
a car park outside the back and that was the last place I saw her because we I she was in fatani with me and Caroline
00:19:41
was in Oakland and she was flying out the next day I think so we met in pyro because it was halfway and Caroline
00:19:47
drove off with Emily and I drove back to fatani and that that car park space in P
00:19:54
was the last place I ever saw her which uh um which is well the last place I ever saw her alive yeah which is
00:20:02
not it's not the nicest place to go and reminisce and then yeah and then the
00:20:08
week week later we got the call that she was dead yeah yes I I read I think this is a
00:20:15
magazine article that you that you've done over the years um yeah thanks for
00:20:19
sharing that by the way she I don't think I'll ever look at that McDonald's
00:20:23
the same way again there go out the back there's a cup space at the back yeah um
00:20:29
it it it just it it just strikes me because we did so many wonderful things and saw so many great things
00:20:37
together and and that's my last memory of her it's just it doesn't seem right
00:20:41
it should be oh no no but it's quite a perfect in a way though like it's so
00:20:46
it's so normal it's yeah but it could have been on you it could have been on
00:20:49
top of North End or something I could go up there and look at the SE or somewhere
00:20:53
beautiful in New Zealand but it was it was or at least in front of the giant bottle of l&p or yeah so um yeah I think
00:21:00
it was like a magazine article I read that you you've done over the years um
00:21:04
you talk about um the day before so Sunday the 6th of May um something was off like yeah you were away with the
00:21:10
theories or it was it was a Saturday um she she died Saturday night in New Zealand time okay so it was Saturday in
00:21:18
the day and and I uh my partner like Hillary we we live in fuat we went to terang for the
00:21:25
day and and I I was find it really difficult to concentrate and and I I just kept I just
00:21:32
kept saying something's wrong and on the way home I I hit the curb a couple of
00:21:36
times with the car and she kept asking me if I was all right and I just I just said this I can't there's something
00:21:42
wrong I can't quite put my finger on it and it was a really it was a really weird feeling um and I just wasn't she
00:21:51
was talking to me I wasn't listening to her and it was just really odds and I
00:21:56
remember feeling it at the time really kind of su ly that I I just felt like something was wrong and I I did but I
00:22:02
didn't know what and then um and then I I I went to bed that night and at some point in the night I woke up
00:22:11
and checked my phone and there were Miss calls from Caroline her mother and and my mother so I found Caroline and and
00:22:19
her and Hannah were crying so I found my mother and um my father put a policeman
00:22:26
on and and the policeman said there's a body in the morg and we think it's Emily
00:22:31
and I thought no that can't be true that's that's not it's not Emily she was
00:22:35
just here and at that point they hadn't formally identified her so I thought
00:22:40
it's not going to be Emily and I and so I I didn't sleep that night obviously and we got on a plane
00:22:48
the next day and I I got off the plane and I went straight to the mor where where Emily was and and that
00:22:56
that policeman was there and and we walked into this this room and there was a window into another
00:23:02
room and the policeman said in a minute and I just got off a flight he said in a
00:23:08
minute the light's going to come on in that in that other room and you look through the window and you'll see Emily
00:23:13
on the bed and and when you when you feel ready you can go into the room and and I thought the light's going
00:23:20
to come on and and and I'll look and it won't be Emily it would just be be
00:23:24
someone else and and I so I watched this light just seems to take forever to come on I looked and and
00:23:30
it was Emily and she was just she was lying on this bed with this sheet over her and she looked like she was asleep
00:23:35
so I just thought I'm going to go and wake her up she's just asleep so I walked into the room and I
00:23:41
and I I walked up to her and you know she was always terrible for getting out of bed I was constantly going into her
00:23:47
in the morning and getting out of bed like three or four times so I thought I'm just going to give her a shake and
00:23:51
she'll wake up so I touched her on on the cheek and it was just it was cold like ice cold and she had this beautiful
00:23:58
soft skin and and then I just it just like it was the most horrendous feeling like just everything just collapsed
00:24:08
around me and and I just realized at that point she was dead and it was and it was true it still took me a
00:24:14
while to really sink in but it was just the the most it's like all everything supporting your life all
00:24:23
the walls that support your life just collapsed and fell apart and and I just wanted
00:24:29
to I just wanted her to wake up I just I didn't want to I didn't want to think
00:24:35
that she's not going to wake up yeah I just can't imagine how um yeah how yeah I mean obviously when when you
00:24:48
boarded the plane you you know you knew you knew you know you knew that she had pass but um I suppose it's just that
00:24:54
tangible proof and I just can't imagine that moment nor can I imagine the moment
00:24:57
where you didn't have to like leave her in the mor that that was the last time I
00:25:01
saw her that was the last time I saw her body because it was a murder investigation unknown to us so they they
00:25:08
then had to freeze her so that the body which was evident still which really pissed me off actually that I couldn't
00:25:16
go and see her again um but yeah yeah it was it was awful there are moments like I remember we had
00:25:24
a memorial service for her and and I went to buy a book of condolence and and I was in the shop and I didn't
00:25:32
want to buy the book cuz if I didn't buy it it meant it wasn't happening but if I
00:25:37
bought the book it meant this this thing was happening Hing it yeah I didn't want
00:25:41
to buy it and it was really hard to buy this book and it's just little things
00:25:46
like that that you you know you just think if I don't do this it's not going
00:25:50
to be true but of course it is true but yeah it was just yeah it's just little
00:25:55
things like that are just they're really hard to do m man I'm so sorry you've been through
00:26:02
this thank you well it's you know it was worse for Emily she's the real yeah
00:26:10
um so um you what when when you first get the news what are your first thoughts are you thinking are you
00:26:17
thinking it's something sinister or you thinking it might be like a like a like
00:26:20
a like a drag overdose or some Med just some undiagnosed medical condition to be
00:26:26
honest we just had we had no idea yeah you're right we're right yeah sorry that's okay
00:26:35
um we just had no idea like you know it could have been alcohol it could have been a random
00:26:44
sudden unexplained death whatever they call it uh yeah I was quite I was initially quite concerned for Turner
00:26:50
because I thought that's not nice waking up with your girlfriend dead and in the
00:26:54
bed you know foolishly I was quite concerned for him um they they did a loot of drug tests she hadn't been
00:27:01
drinking a lot there were no drugs in her body so can I just grab yeah absolutely um yeah so there but this
00:27:09
this took a bit of time and of course there was a lot of speculation and then there are all these stories that we'd
00:27:14
sent over Emily over to England because she'd got on them with the wrong crowd
00:27:17
and she had a drug problem and you know which I thought was kind of ironic because uh drugs are much easier to buy
00:27:23
in England like there a pu there's a pub near my parents where they still sell
00:27:26
drugs um so yeah I thought it was kind of ironic that people thought we'd send her to
00:27:32
England because she had a drug problem but anyway there was all this speculation and then after about a week
00:27:40
the police were great with us in England they're really good but after about a
00:27:43
week they told us that they suspected Foul Play that they thought he had done something to her but they didn't know
00:27:50
what it was because he was a real arrogant piece of work in the in the police interviews and then so we and
00:27:57
then they thought that he'd strangled her so we kept getting these kind of which was a horrendous there was an
00:28:03
awful moment when when the police said we think he strangled her because you know that was just a think that someone
00:28:09
had put there had had violently killed Emily so we we kind of went through these these moments of of it just
00:28:17
getting worse and worse and worse um and and then they I think in the July they charged him with murder
00:28:24
but it was just the most it was really conf refusing at first like trying trying to work out
00:28:31
what had happened to Emily and I was just kind of like well in a way it doesn't really
00:28:36
matter at the moment you know because we've got to deal with the fact she's
00:28:40
dead we can deal with that later but then the we had to go through the kind of murder thing and and just
00:28:48
thinking that someone had deliberately done that to Emily was I found that really upsetting that someone would
00:28:53
deliberately hurt her and you know she was she was in England she was with my parents and
00:28:59
I've got a big family over there but she was without her parents she was kind of
00:29:03
vulnerable and it just made me really sad that that he killed her in a in his bedroom she was on her own you know it
00:29:10
was yeah that just made me really sad how long was it before you could um talk about this without without choking
00:29:18
up I'm yeah I'm getting emotional I have just a little yeah um oh I still do like
00:29:25
it takes a long time yeah I I still do like I thought I was gonna gonna then um but I I can talk about it with you but
00:29:41
it's G to I'm going to be tired later yeah so it's kind of I'm like holding the emotion back
00:29:47
yeah it'll come out later if that makes sense yeah well thanks for sharing with
00:29:51
because that's it's not just me you're sharing it with it's like a broader
00:29:54
audience as well and I think it's um that's yeah really other people listening to this I hope so yeah I I
00:30:00
definitely think this is going to be um po I hate to say the word popular but it's going to be a popular episode
00:30:05
because um you know I think these are important conversations to be having eh yeah the more of a um a light we can
00:30:11
shine on it the better absolutely um you know people talk about the five stages of grief is is is that a is that a thing
00:30:18
is it is it in the order that they say it is or do do you go between the five things like in different sequences over
00:30:24
and over yeah do you know the thing one of the things I've learned about grief
00:30:27
is it's different for everyone and uh you know even if even if I meet someone
00:30:34
who's lost a child the way they grieve is different to the way I grieve and I think that's
00:30:39
one of the things you've got to recognize about grief as it's different for everyone like my my relationship
00:30:44
with Emily was different to her mother's relationship with her and her sister's
00:30:47
relationship with her so the way we grieve her is different so we all loved her but you know she was I had my my
00:30:55
relationship with her so the way you grief someone is very unique to you and I think it's important so so you you
00:31:02
can't put a the five stages of grief I found kind of useful but it didn't really work for
00:31:09
me because there's like sadness and anger and L and I can't remember denial yeah
00:31:16
yeah I mean I kind of went through all those but also you're going through a
00:31:20
lot of other stuff and and like look Looking Back Now I can see I went through a denial phase but at the time I
00:31:25
didn't realize I was going through a denial phase so um they they do kind of work but
00:31:32
I yeah I think grief is very unique to people and also you just you find you find a way that works for you like like
00:31:40
for me I I wanted to find a way that I could get on with my I could carry my carry on
00:31:46
my day-to-day life like I had to go back to work I kind of wanted to go back to work I wanted to do some normal things
00:31:53
you know some people want to shut themselves off at home and and deal with it that way so I I I I wanted to find
00:31:59
strategies that I could I I could survive the day um and you know interact with other people that that's kind of
00:32:05
how it work for me other people want to just they want to do the opposite they don't want to interact with other people
00:32:10
they so you just kind of find something that works and and like for me I I I knew that Emily wouldn't
00:32:20
want anyone else to kind of suffer she she would want us to carry on with our with our lives and you know she'
00:32:28
obviously want us to be sad and everything but she wouldn't want she wouldn't have wanted me to kind of
00:32:33
collapse and give up she would have that that would have been the last thing and
00:32:36
that would have done a disservice to her if I if I had done that and so that that
00:32:41
really drove me on and also you know I there there were nights where I I lay in bed and I thought if I don't wake up
00:32:52
tomorrow I'm fine with that like I didn't want to commit suicide or kill
00:32:56
myself or anything like that but I just I thought I'm so this is this is really
00:33:02
so hard that if someone had said if you go to sleep you won't wake up tomorrow I
00:33:07
would have gone to sleep and and and not woken up and but then I thought that would have upset people you
00:33:14
know they would have been dealing with Emily and then with me and and that that's I just thought that's that's not
00:33:18
what I want to do it's other so I just thought I want to I want to carry on and and do the
00:33:25
things I want to do um because that's what Emily would have wanted so you know you can
00:33:33
find I'm not the only one who says this you know lots of people it's in in times
00:33:37
of great hardship sometimes you just find that strength you know and and you don't think you've got it but you do and
00:33:44
and lots of people have done it you know I'm sure you've done it at times as well
00:33:48
you know you just you do whatever it is yeah well the um you know the the sun's
00:33:55
going to rise and fall each day with the with with you like it or not is that's
00:33:59
right yeah well this is the other thing you realize that you know the sun comes up tomorrow the life life carries on and
00:34:08
you know I I kind of I mean I know people are passionate about sport but I kind of I you know people get so upset
00:34:16
because the All Blacks lose or something and I think well you know that's actually not going to affect your life
00:34:19
you know this the sun's still going to come up tomorrow you're still going to
00:34:22
get on and if that's the worst thing that happens to you this month that's not a
00:34:26
bad thing unless they get beaten by Italy which case that's pretty bad um did you did
00:34:32
you um G therapy or professional help how did you yeah yeah I did I I I went through I had three counselors and the
00:34:39
first two I didn't I didn't deel with not no no thought of them but they just
00:34:44
it takes a while to find the right one it does yeah and you know I kind of I knew I was sad I knew why I was sad I
00:34:53
didn't really want to discuss that I wanted to discuss coping strategies and
00:34:56
so the third one I said look I I know about the five stages of grief I know I'm sad I know all this I I really want
00:35:05
you to help me be able to go to work in the morning and not have to go and sit in my car for half an hour because I
00:35:10
think I'm going to start crying and so she gave me some really good strategies
00:35:13
to deal with that and and so yeah I saw her for quite a long time and any any books or anything that you found
00:35:19
particularly useful I did read some books I can't remember what they called there's a very good book written by a
00:35:24
female author and she interviews parents of people who lost their children and there's some horrific
00:35:32
stories and so I I I read that and I found that really interesting there there was there's a
00:35:38
good play called something rabbit it was a TV film with Nicole Kidman and Aaron art which it's about a couple who who
00:35:47
lose their son and and and it really examines the different way men and women grieve um and then there's a there's a a
00:35:57
rower I Rob Rob haml is his name yeah Rob HL yes yeah who lost his brother in a Cambodian prison cell and
00:36:07
he lived in fatani and by coincidence we met we met up with each other and his brother was tortured in a
00:36:16
Cambodian jail for two years before his his kind of skin and bones body was was finally
00:36:24
killed and I just thought geez that would be horr you know that I was feeling sorry for
00:36:30
myself but I thought at least Emily wasn't tortured and you know she she died fairly quickly
00:36:37
so I kind of thought actually there's people who have experienced this far worse than I have so there you know
00:36:43
there were a few things and and talking to Rob was really good I think he's living on a boat now
00:36:48
somewhere um and you know I just and the same with David White's book because he
00:36:54
had to tell his daughter's children that the mother was dead which would have
00:36:59
been horrendous too and I thought [ __ ] that I was feeling sorry for myself but
00:37:03
I thought well at least I don't have to tell him he daughter that she's died
00:37:07
yeah so it's just a kind of yeah it was a few things yeah yeah well there that saying comparisons the
00:37:14
theft of Joy but you can compare down sometimes that's uh that can be helpful
00:37:19
oh definitely you know if you're feeling sorry for yourself there's always people
00:37:22
who have who have either done it as bad or worse and and it snaps you out of and
00:37:27
I was glad about that cuz I didn't want to feel sorry for myself I wanted to I
00:37:30
wanted to feel sorry for Emily I I um I have a card here to um talk about the trial a little bit
00:37:38
because it's like a very unique thing that most of us fortunately would never
00:37:41
go through did you want to are you okay to talk about that okay um yeah how stressful is
00:37:47
that you you were there every day right you attended the trial and why why was that important to
00:37:52
you uh I think primarily we wanted to support Emily yeah and I wanted to I wanted the truth to come out right but
00:38:00
yeah I just think yeah must be a hard thing to set through though oh it's horrendous like it it's horrendous
00:38:08
because because obviously I me he's not on trial but this is something that is
00:38:13
incredibly important to us but we we're just Spectators we sit in the spectator
00:38:17
Gallery we've got no input in the trial you're just sitting there watching
00:38:21
listening to this thing play out and you can't like I wanted to stand up at times
00:38:25
and Shout you know shout that's bollocks or that's crap but luckily we had a
00:38:29
really good legal team and we would meet at the end of every day and kind of debrief but there was one point we were
00:38:36
at Winchester Crown Court and the public Gallery was above the court and Turner was on the stand and he was being
00:38:43
particularly lwd about the last sex he had with Emily and and I I wanted to shut him up
00:38:52
and so I walk down and I put my hands on the door of the court and and to as you
00:38:57
walk I didn't go through but as you went through there was the Press so I thought
00:39:00
well I can get past them then there was the police and I thought if I'm really
00:39:03
running fast the police won't stop me they won't have time to stop me and I
00:39:08
thought I can get to him and I thought I can just shut him up I just wanted to shut him up and stop him talking about
00:39:12
em like that so I stood at the doors and my knu I remember seeing my Knuckles white but I didn't go through and I told
00:39:18
the police later and they said thank God you didn't go through yeah but but I I
00:39:23
was you know I was so incensed and and I couldn't do anything and I just thought
00:39:27
I just I wanted to I want to to shut him up but but you the the trial we we found
00:39:33
out the case against ter of the day before the trial and that's when I found
00:39:38
out all the details I didn't know anything before that I found out all the details about the abuse and how long it
00:39:44
had gone on for and the physical abuse and the the the verbal abuse abuse and the threats and and and I I just
00:39:53
thought why Why did no one stop him like why did no one Reign him in why why why
00:39:59
did no one do anything I just I couldn't believe it I just thought it's it's so obvious he was
00:40:04
going to kill her that you know why did no one spot that it was just it just it really um it really just made me sad and
00:40:13
really baffled me but then you the trial happened and I remember it was just draining like it
00:40:22
was a year after she died we were still coming to terms with that we I I personally kind of put my grief on hold
00:40:30
so that until after the trial and just to sit there for five weeks I think it was was draining like I had nothing left
00:40:37
at the end of it I was so I was so happy that he was found guilty and we could sto going I I just had nothing left it
00:40:45
was it was just just there's the there's the tension that you want the right right
00:40:52
results and and I wanted the right result for Emily because there was a lot of bad stuff written about her and I
00:40:58
wanted the world to know that that wasn't her she hadn't she hadn't bought this on herself
00:41:03
like there's there's always speculation you know wh why was she in a club by
00:41:06
herself why was she doing this people were asking me did she bring it on herself like why didn't she break up
00:41:12
with him you know it's all irrelevant I wanted to I it's victim blaming isn't it
00:41:17
it is victim blaming yeah yeah you know she's a 17-year-old girl she know what
00:41:20
danger she was in um and and and so I I wanted the truth to come out for her so we could lay her to
00:41:29
rest and also I just thought he's incredibly dangerous if he gets off this he'll just do it again so I wanted him
00:41:35
put away but but to sit through that for five weeks and the drama of the trial they
00:41:42
were because there was no obvious cause of death and it was very difficult to establish that so it was about a week
00:41:47
period I think where we didn't know whether we were winning or losing and then we kind of turned that
00:41:54
point when when Turner got on the stand he basically I think I think he pretty much convicted
00:41:58
himself so after that it got a bit easier but it's just incredibly draining I I I remember in the
00:42:05
um the who's who's the Blade Runner um Oscar ptus storus he is you know the
00:42:12
trial I met Jun stin camp for a few years later but people people were very critical of her because she sat and
00:42:18
caught with her glasses on looking very Stern and not not showing any emotion and I thought well you don't know what
00:42:25
that's like you know sitting in a in a trial when when someone's been accused
00:42:30
of murdering your daughter you I absolutely understood why she was doing that it's it's such a hard thing to go
00:42:36
through it was the same with the um with with Grace Main's parents you know it's such a hard thing to sit there
00:42:43
and listen to a story about someone putting your daughter into a suitcase and burying her in the white you know
00:42:50
that's just horrendous to to listen to and you can't do anything about it you
00:42:54
know you're just you're you're sitting there as an obser ever so I feel for
00:42:58
anyone who has to sit through a murder trial it's really hard work and the um
00:43:04
the the the crown uh legal team like what do they do to um sort of like manage your expectations in term in
00:43:11
terms of a verdict they they were they were very confident about their case but the and and it had everything like she
00:43:19
was in his bedroom she died there he had been there was a whole catalog of aggressive behavior before that but it
00:43:25
didn't have a obvious cause of death and in in the end he he did the choke hold
00:43:30
on her um which cuts the oxygen off to your brain and it's kind of doesn't
00:43:34
leave many marks but fortunately left enough so if there had been an obvious cause of death I think it would have
00:43:40
been we all would have been fairly confident so they they were very upfront about that they they told me what the
00:43:46
case was against her but there was a problem because they had to prove he killed her and that wasn't
00:43:54
obvious but we had a great um we had a great legal team so after every day we would we would meet in the in an office
00:44:04
and just go through the day and we gave some good things that um for example Emily didn't take a
00:44:11
makeup off and I said she always took her makeup off it doesn't matter how drunk she was or what what time it was
00:44:16
she always took her makeup off so there were just little things like that that which was in the end became kind of
00:44:21
a key piece of Mees because they of evidence because they found her traces of her makeup on on
00:44:27
shirt so yeah the the legal team were really good but they were they were they would constantly tell us we don't know
00:44:37
how this is going they didn't build up our expectation too highly yeah CU from like from an
00:44:44
outsider's perspective it seems like an open shut case right like it seems like
00:44:48
UNF fathomable that there'd be like a chance of anything other than a guilty
00:44:52
verdict like the from this manhard documentary it's uh yeah mean there's
00:44:56
the Co recordings of his yeah parents talking about what went on the even like text messages that he sent to his
00:45:03
parents saying saying he's going to give her a hiding and things like that yeah
00:45:06
and oh the heartbreaking thing for me was the the note um of Emil's that she
00:45:10
wrote it was like a bullet point of yeah yeah you know saying how much he loves him and that it's sexier when he's you
00:45:15
know not being aggressive and things yeah please don't say you're going to
00:45:18
kill me yeah it's just devastating yeah but but that you you kind of watch that
00:45:22
package together in that documentary it's packaged together with hindsight whereas
00:45:27
in the court like like the letter was bought out on one day the recordings were played on another day so that it
00:45:33
wasn't all packaged up into into what if that makes sense we we're kind of
00:45:36
watching it play out in real time so it it does it seems obvious in hindsight but like in week one you you
00:45:45
still weren't really too sure what had happened because the evidence hadn't
00:45:48
been played out fully so it's kind of dragged out a bit in in court a bit more
00:45:52
but yeah I can I see so when the crown lawyers are speaking you like I is guilty as soon and when his lawyers are
00:45:58
defending him you're like oh okay maybe yeah I me when you look at the evidence
00:46:02
kind of all packaged together it it was obvious that he'd done it but when it's
00:46:05
spread out over four weeks it's it's not it wasn't quite so obvious but then you
00:46:11
know you you've got a jury you don't know what the jury are going to think
00:46:13
you don't know what they're thinking um they have to believe Beyond reasonable
00:46:17
doubts so that the and the prosecution has to prove that so it's just you never
00:46:22
really know that's why it was such a relief when they said we find him guilty
00:46:26
like it was it was a bitter sweet moment I was I was just really happy for Emily
00:46:32
but at the same time it didn't really change anything yeah and his parents ended up um doing
00:46:38
um um prison sentences as well for years being involved after so they hadn't been
00:46:43
on trial at that point so they were in court supporting him no they were on trial as well oh at the same time at the
00:46:49
same time okay yeah yeah we we used to see them they cuz they weren't on they
00:46:54
they they were they were on Ran So that he Turner was going back to prison every night but
00:46:59
they were just going home so there's one time when I I went into the toilets and
00:47:03
Turner's father was just there using the urinol and it was just a weird moment oh
00:47:09
my God that is so weird you think that would be like a ground with is you know yeah guilty and not guilty toet wow
00:47:20
did you acknowledge each other or no I just I just ignored him yeah we we we were because they knew knew that we were
00:47:27
going to see them in the courts that they told us not to not to engage them at all because you can you can you can
00:47:34
be accused of trying to affect the trial so I I just ignored them so their behavior was Despicable um like playing
00:47:43
Devil's Advocate after watching The Manhunt thing you know like his his friends that didn't didn't do anything
00:47:48
or didn't intervene or didn't you know call him out for his appalling Behavior
00:47:52
I was thinking well you know perhaps they were intimidated by him or whatever you know dumb reason but whatever but
00:47:57
his parents inexcusable absolutely inexcusable yeah yeah I mean it was I think it was more him his mother who was
00:48:06
completely boted with him boted with him and and completely you know tunnel vision that he didn't do it and and
00:48:12
there was some there were some moments in the trial I think they're on that documentary where Elliot Turner says she
00:48:18
ruined my life and his mother says yes she did and and so I think they they blamed Emily for you know as far as they
00:48:27
were concerned it was Emily's fault the father I think was a bit more um was a bit sadder but he he still
00:48:34
went along with it but you know what one of the things I found really sad for Emily was was they they found her body
00:48:41
and they waited an hour before they C called the ambulance and I just thought just give her the Dignity of getting the
00:48:46
body out of there and having someone deal with it instead of making her lie there in this bed for an hour while you
00:48:53
con cut your stories and get your story straight I just thought you know that was I just thought it was really
00:48:59
cowardly and really sad and just showed them for who they were and and I was so happy that they went to prison it was
00:49:06
just it was great it wouldn't have been nice for them prison and the um deliberations how long did they last for
00:49:14
what was what was that experience like the deliberations yeah um that was a couple of days was what do you do none
00:49:23
of it nice like there's not I don't look back and are you that was that was a fun
00:49:28
bit of the trial it was all it was all pretty horrendous but you you just you just sit
00:49:35
in a room like you can't do anything you try and go for a walk but then you're
00:49:39
worried the jury might come back when the jury breaks for lunch you go and have lunch but you just sit in this room
00:49:45
waiting and and you can't concentrate on anything else you can't do anything and they they have a code I
00:49:54
they might do it here but they have a code in in England where they changed the way if if the jury if something
00:50:01
happens that they'll say the jury's retiring for lunch or the jury's gone
00:50:05
for the day and if it's a verdict they changed the wording slightly I can't
00:50:08
remember what it was so we were sitting there and they made this jury announcement using the other wording and
00:50:13
the police said that that's a verdict and we were downstairs in the courtroom and you had to walk up two
00:50:21
flights of stairs and it was the slowest walk of my life just it was really each step we had
00:50:28
to walk up to the public Gallery which is at the top of the court and and I was just I was there
00:50:34
with Hannah and we just we hugged each other for a bit of moral support Hannah's my other
00:50:40
daughter and it it was just a really slow walk up that those steps to get up there like we' walked up them every day
00:50:48
up and down them every day and then waiting for the you know they go through the formalities the jury
00:50:54
sits down the guy stands up it's like just get on with it just yell out guilty
00:51:01
don't be doing all this judge have you reached a verdict yeah um so yeah it was it and then they
00:51:08
said guilty and and it was just already happy but sad moment yeah what is that just relief
00:51:16
yeah it was relief like like I said I was reliefed for Emily and I was relieved that he was going to prison and
00:51:21
I was relieved we didn't have to go back to courts and I was relieved that that
00:51:24
that because because there were various things we had to get through we had to deal with Emily's
00:51:30
death and and The Grieving around that we had to deal with the court case and then he appealed so we had to deal with
00:51:35
the appeal subsequently and so I just kind of compartmentalized it and I thought okay
00:51:41
I'm going to get through the trial and if he's guilty I don't I can just I can put that
00:51:46
away I don't have to think about it again so it was nice not to have to deal
00:51:50
with that and also it meant I didn't have to think about him for 16 years I mean he's I think he's out in three
00:51:55
years now so I could just I could just I could park him as well I didn't have to
00:51:59
deal with him for a while and I could I could just focus on on dealing with Emily and and and and that
00:52:09
situation yeah how do how do you feel about the parole thing three years from now is that something you given much
00:52:15
thought to how how you feel or yeah I'm starting to you know I'm fairly humanitarian and I and I I believe that
00:52:21
prison should reform people except in his case they should put him in the bottom of a pit shut the door and just
00:52:26
Chuck Down Rotten bits of meat for the rest of his life you know I I would be quite happy with that ju Just for him
00:52:33
now I I think like when they said 16 years I thought that's quite a long time
00:52:37
but now there's three years to go it doesn't feel long enough and and and
00:52:42
he's going to get out of prison and his punishment will be behind him and he'll
00:52:46
still have whatever he has of his life left ahead of him and that just doesn't
00:52:49
seem fair that you know yeah it just doesn't seem fair and it and and now it's coming
00:52:57
um up I don't it's going to be hard when he does get out I I get an update from the prison
00:53:04
service every year apparently he's going through he's doing the right things to
00:53:09
ticking the boxes he's ticking the boxes he he's he's admitted apparently that he
00:53:13
that he killed her and he's admitted that he's well he's wrong whether he's
00:53:16
actually admitted that I don't know whether he's just saying it because you
00:53:19
part of the parole is obviously you have to you have to admit what you did and you have to admit that you know it was
00:53:25
wrong so I kind of you know and that that's what the judge decided and there's nothing I can do about that
00:53:35
so we just have to deal with it but it does seem sad you know hopefully he'll
00:53:39
[ __ ] up and go back to prison um you hear uh quite about like a news media and stuff um I suppose mainly in
00:53:57
Pacific communities about um you when when something like this happens family often say they they forgive the person
00:54:02
that did it and I suppose a lot of it is um just to to make their load easier to
00:54:07
carry or whatever how do you how do you feel forgiveness towards T yeah I'm going to have I'm going to have to at
00:54:12
some points I think you know no you don't have to I don't think I I don't
00:54:16
think I could it's it's an interesting one though isn't it because like um you
00:54:22
know it's really the ultimate thing you can do is to forgive them and that and
00:54:27
that really sets you way above them I mean I I'm kind of I'm thinking I have
00:54:34
to one day but I don't know if I can really I don't know if I can actually
00:54:38
forgive him it's a hard one I'm I'm not really I'm not really religious um
00:54:44
although I had a religious upbringing a Catholic upbringing where the kind of you know forgiveness is a
00:54:50
key part of that and I do kind of um I do I think it takes a lot to truly forgive someone something I think it
00:55:02
takes a lot of uh strength so I kind of like the idea of it but I just don't
00:55:08
know if I can do it I don't know if I'm big enough no one could blame you like
00:55:11
it's it's it's unforgivable it is really um yeah you know I I I think I if I saw
00:55:18
him I could control myself enough even though still now I I would really want to hurt him
00:55:25
but I wouldn't but you know so I yeah I I don't know it's kind of three years away and it's quite nice
00:55:35
not to have to think about him for another three years it's going to go quick um how's Hanah so that's um
00:55:42
Emily's younger sister yeah yeah yeah she's not so young now she's she's 29
00:55:47
yeah yeah yes yes she's good she um both henah and I after some time had passed uh thought you know we want to
00:55:57
try and do some good for this because you know it I think everybody would have liked that so she's she's
00:56:05
gone into um she's she works with suicidal teenagers wow so she yeah so she's she's pretty full on but she's
00:56:15
kind of decided she wanted to go go down that path and help help young people I mean Emily wasn't suicidal but she she
00:56:22
had some she went through some tough times especially after we got divorced so she kind of
00:56:27
and I wanted to help other teenagers who are having a tough time she's doing a
00:56:31
really good job of it yeah oh that's brilliant yeah um what are the biggest lessons you've learned about resilience
00:56:36
you think uh you must be um way more resilient than what you ever imagin yes well that I think that's lesson number
00:56:45
one is that you're more resilient than you think you are um and I think also you know I mean that
00:56:55
that advert by junk Coen keeps coming into my mind just just find something just cling on to something and it's true
00:57:02
you know you there are little things that that you can just cling on to um but but also also you know being
00:57:11
resilient doesn't mean not being sad you know you can still cry you can still be
00:57:15
sad you can still have bad days it doesn't mean you're not resilient it's
00:57:18
kind of a resilience is a kind of a long-term a long-term thing of getting yourself to a position you want to be in
00:57:26
but you know it does you're not weak if you if you cry you break down or you you
00:57:31
can't go to work on any particular day or you want to stay in bed you know that's not you can still be resilient
00:57:36
and so it's yeah um and yeah there's a lot of talk there's a lot talked about resilience and being
00:57:46
tough but I think you know sometimes showing your emotions is is a can be a really positive thing to do but a hard
00:57:53
thing to do yeah I agree I I think it's wonderful in the fact that um you know she passed away 13 years ago
00:57:59
and it's still um deeply deeply sad it just speaks a lot about the um the impact that she had on you and the love
00:58:06
that you had for her what um what things make you think of her now apart from the
00:58:11
the Pyro McDonald's car pack like do you when you drive past like a top shop
00:58:17
where uh yeah you don't have you don't have top shops here like the beach I was
00:58:22
thinking of about when I go to the beach particularly takapuna Beach Casta Bay which I live near now um the beach
00:58:29
Summer she loves summer um I drive past her schools all the time just places because I I live
00:58:35
quite near to where where she kind of grew up on the NorthShore and any place we used to go
00:58:41
to um but just something will happen and I just I just think any would have thought that was really
00:58:48
funny and of course I you know I've got I've had more kids and every time one of
00:58:53
my kids looks like Emily which is kind of a bit weird but also every time I see them I
00:59:00
just think Emily would have loved them like it's it's so sad that they don't
00:59:04
know her they they know of her and we talk about her but it's so sad because
00:59:08
she would have been um they would have just loved it she would have been so good Hannah's fantastic with
00:59:14
them so every and this is why you know when you said earlier about grief getting easier in some ways it doesn't
00:59:20
because things happen in your life and you just think I wish em was here so you just miss them I mean it's like like if
00:59:26
you if you lose a parent and you get married you wish your parents were there when you have kids you wish your parents
00:59:31
were there to see your kids you know these things happen that just make you quite sad a long time afterwards
00:59:38
yeah but I I just you know I I just I wish every was here to be with my kids they would have loved
00:59:45
her how long how long was it after she passed that you um like smiled or laughed again like was there a moment
00:59:53
where you're like oh [ __ ] this is the this is the first time I found happy in
00:59:56
a long time yeah I tell you what it was I I um I was really I didn't I wasn't
01:00:02
happy for a long time I didn't think I was ever going to be happy again and Emily's birthday was on February the
01:00:10
22nd and um I think I saw I found that really difficult this was three years I think
01:00:18
after she died I found the birth day really difficult and I thought I've got
01:00:22
to get through this day every every year and I was feeling really low and I thinking I can't do this and then um I
01:00:30
went to see my counselor and and and Hillary was pregnant my partner was pregnant and
01:00:36
then Hunter came six weeks prematurely and the minute he was born I just and I was really worried
01:00:45
about how am I going to love a baby while I'm mourning another child but then um he came along and I just thought
01:00:54
you pull yourself together and and I was really you know I bonded with him and I
01:00:59
do you have kids I it's like you worry about things before you have kids but then when the kids are
01:01:06
born you you just get on with it and so it was really having him I just started to to that that was my investment back
01:01:14
in life which is which is a bit of a a catchphrase but people say you've got to
01:01:19
find something to reinvest back in life with and and that and it was him coming along that made me um
01:01:27
that that made me think actually I I'm going to pull myself together because
01:01:31
I've got another child and and the the first time you you started to sort of like feel feel happy
01:01:37
again or get on with it like was there like a a sense of guilt oh go you it's
01:01:40
huge yeah I mean this this is one of the nice things now is that I can be happy and laugh and I don't feel guilty but oh
01:01:47
God there's a huge huge sense of guilt you think how why am I laughing and when
01:01:51
you see other people happy you think why are they happy do they not know what's
01:01:55
happened but yeah yeah there's a huge sense of guilt it's it's yeah but then you you
01:01:59
kind of learn well you know actually Emily wouldn't want me to sit at home being miserable
01:02:05
the whole time she she'd want me to be happy and and I I can talk about her and
01:02:09
and smile about her and be happy in my memories of her now which is a nice thing so but yeah yeah yeah there huge
01:02:15
there huge guilt yeah you you you see something and you think oh that's nice
01:02:20
and and then you think well don't stop it you can't be you can't look at that
01:02:23
and think that's nice your daughter's just died is that a constant is it just
01:02:27
something that's that's there every day it eases you you I I don't have that now
01:02:33
that that was very much in the aftermath yeah I I don't have that now and so her
01:02:37
birthday is now February 22nd what 22nd yeah yeah what do they look like what do
01:02:41
you do do you you and henna get together yeah yeah we do Emily loved um I I make this thae green curry
01:02:50
which she used to love like I used to make a batch of it and she'd have it for
01:02:52
breakfast lunch and dinner so I cook I cook one of those and we just get together and we talk about her her
01:02:57
birthday is usually quite nice the the anniversary of her death which is May the 7th is that's a horrible day because
01:03:04
there's just nothing nice about it it I you can't dread it coming and then it
01:03:09
comes and then you're relieved you don't have to go through it again for another
01:03:11
year it's just it's yeah it's not nice I try and make a birthday a celebration
01:03:17
that my my kids come we have a birthday cake and we we make it as if she was here but obviously she's not
01:03:26
do you dream about her yeah I do yeah really still yeah yeah yeah it's nice but it's quite sad as well like I I
01:03:34
I I I I I had an operation a few years ago and they put me under anesthetic and I dreamt while I was
01:03:42
under the anesthetic I was I was sitting in a room like this talking to Emily like we're talking and we were talking
01:03:49
as if she was dead and I was and and and I had this brief time with her and then
01:03:56
the anesthetic the do person W me up and I was say no no don't wake me up don't
01:04:00
wake me up I want to go back to sleep and it was such a lovely dream it was like we we we were just catching up like
01:04:08
like we hadn't seen each other for a while and so and she's sto 17 in the
01:04:12
dreams she's different ages yeah sometimes she's younger sometimes she's
01:04:16
older yeah yes she's she's different well there was one other photo I found online yeah which just just
01:04:25
beautiful where where's that what's the what's that photograph that that is
01:04:29
that's when Emily was over for for Easter sorry and um when when you drive from fatani to rotaru you go past the
01:04:36
Lakes I don't know if you've ever done that drive there's a whole load of lakes
01:04:39
I can't remember which lake this is but it's it's beautiful so in this part of
01:04:44
the photo there's there's a lake and then behind us there's these batches and
01:04:48
we just stop because I I love the I I I love this little area and and it's always misty here and then over
01:04:55
here there's a big Bank of of kind of Cliff with trees on it it's just it's
01:05:00
really peaceful so I stopped there with on the way back from root to with Emily and Hanah I just put my arm around and
01:05:08
Hillary just took this photo and yeah it's a lovely photo it it's completely
01:05:12
spontaneous like she's looking at the camera I don't know I just put my arm
01:05:16
around her and I still stop there now it's a much nicer place to remember her
01:05:23
than yeah yeah so so when I go when I make that drive which isn't often now I
01:05:29
still stop there it's a beautiful spot yeah that photo um stood I forget where
01:05:34
I found it it was just online somewhere but it stood out to me because um she's
01:05:38
at that age where she could quite easily like not want anything to do with you you know Dad's a pain in the ass or
01:05:43
whatever but um you can just see the love there um you from you to her and her to you you know it's just it's such
01:05:50
a a beautiful and natural and candid photo yeah she you know she I obviously obviously I was a huge source of
01:05:57
embarrassment to her on many occasions but but you're right but yeah yeah yeah
01:06:02
and but I kind of think but but but she was still always very you know we she was always still
01:06:09
very affectionate she'd always give me a hugle she didn't mind me didn't mind me
01:06:14
hugging her MH and and we hadn't seen each other for a while while she this is
01:06:19
when she was back we hadn't seen each other for a while so I was just so happy
01:06:23
to see her you know I knew I wanted to get my hugs in cuz I probably wouldn't
01:06:27
she was actually going to come back for the Rugby World Cup that year which was that was the one that was here wasn't it
01:06:32
yes yeah yeah I think August September that year yeah she was going to come back in September to be here for that so
01:06:38
we we weren't when I said goodbye to her it that was in M April May it wasn't
01:06:43
going to be for that long she was going to fly back yeah um how's this changed
01:06:48
you as a person uh it's it it's changed me a lot of ways like like um like let me it's it's changed me the
01:07:02
way I deal with other people like I I I really you know if someone's a bit sad
01:07:07
or feeling down I kind of want to try and help them or or or or bring them up or you know I think I'm a lot less just
01:07:16
focused on me and my family really more empathetic much more empathetic yeah yeah um I I'm a lot more resilient now
01:07:24
in some ways but but in other ways I'm not because because I can be quite easily
01:07:32
hurt because I'm still quite this still a lot of pain in me from from what what's happened to
01:07:38
Emily but I think um it's kind of hard because I'd rather Emily was here but
01:07:48
it's made me a better person he's made me a much better person than I think I
01:07:53
was before in that I I I care about other people a lot more I'm not so kind of focused inwardly on
01:08:01
on myself um I feel like I can I've been through something that a lot of people
01:08:07
haven't been through so I I can I can I think I've got something I've got something to offer
01:08:14
other people if they're if they're feeling down um and I just think also I
01:08:21
never would have got involved with domestic violence had this happen I didn't even know what domestic violence
01:08:25
was I never would have got involved with that so um it's kind of I think it's improved me
01:08:34
but I'd rather be my old self with a family 100% um yeah knowing uh what you've since learned about domestic
01:08:42
violence um is there anything you could have done differently or you know what are some like common warning signs and
01:08:48
things like that yeah I well I think it was kind of hard to spot the signs of them because we weren't there but I
01:08:54
think I I would have I I I didn't think a boyfriend was ever going to be a threat I thought if
01:09:00
something happened to Emily it would have been some random person in the street or something and I was worried
01:09:04
about that happening I I didn't for a minute think that the most dangerous people are the people who who know you
01:09:11
or who claim to love you so I you know I I would have educated her better around
01:09:16
that um and also I would have encouraged her to speak out about it you know a lot
01:09:23
more than than she did she tried to sort it out herself but I I kind of think in
01:09:30
general this uh violence towards women whether it's sexual violence physical
01:09:36
violence or emotional violence it exists it's a thing that's out there it's it's
01:09:41
very common um and we've got to St I think in general we just got to stop pretending it doesn't exist and and just
01:09:50
talk about it really yeah are there any like in hindsight any red flags that um you know
01:09:57
friends or family could could look out for in a situation like this yeah yeah yeah I mean if you look at just if you
01:10:02
look at just with Turner himself he was um he was very controlling so he would hack her Facebook page he would check
01:10:09
her phone see who she was texting he would he would go through her phone and text her mail friends and say pretending
01:10:15
to be Emily say I don't want to see you anymore I can't be your friend anymore
01:10:20
he would turn up where she was he would he would keep tabs in her all the time he want to know where she was going so
01:10:25
he was very controlling which is a classic um a classic sign uh he was he was he
01:10:33
was emotionally abusive he would he would tell her she look like a [ __ ] he would put her down at any opportunity he
01:10:41
would ignore her he would there's a clip on that on that documentary where she's she's seeing him
01:10:48
for the first time since coming back from New Zealand she walks into a bar if you remember it and he slammed her head
01:10:53
on that that that it was the clip of before that he he just ignores her he turns his back on her so he was this all
01:10:59
this kind of all this unpleasant behavior um and then there's the physical violence where he he slammed
01:11:07
his head on her on the table he used to hold her up by her neck as well which is
01:11:12
an incredibly if you're stronger than someone you know it's an incredibly
01:11:16
empowering thing to do and also there's just the you know the biggest red flag was him telling
01:11:21
people he was going to kill her you know you can't get more of a red flag about
01:11:24
that and and um he didn't just say I'm going to kill her he he talked about strangling her
01:11:31
drowning her or setting fire to her you know this is this is Extreme Behavior this isn't just like I'm so angry I
01:11:38
could kill you this is like I'm going to set fire to you this is it's not normal
01:11:42
talk it's and and so yeah that that there are red flags I I I think the main ones are the you know
01:11:51
there's the controlling there's the abusive Behavior which doesn't start out
01:11:54
to be physical it always starts out to be mental there's the isolation you know
01:11:59
separating people from their friends they've got no support network there's
01:12:03
lots of warning signs and and you know one of my key messages is if you see these things happening you've got to act
01:12:09
on them because if you don't it will escalate and escalate and escalate until
01:12:13
it could end up like like Emily but you had you had no way of knowing neither did your parents I guess
01:12:20
there were no visible signs so unless Emily was prepared to um you know be forward with um the information about
01:12:26
what was going on there's no way anyone could have intervened right no it's I
01:12:29
think his friends or her friends probably I mean they were only young but but no it's it's really hard to spot as
01:12:36
well like youve you've really got to be kind of looking at the person because if you're in an abusive
01:12:43
relationship if if you're the woman and you're with an abusive man he's kind of
01:12:47
put he'll be putting you down and putting you down and putting you down but then he'll be blame he'll be blaming
01:12:51
you for this as well so it' be like you made me angry you you made do that you
01:12:56
know if you hadn't done that I wouldn't have done that um and so you start
01:13:00
thinking it's your fault and it's very hard to actually ask for help when you
01:13:04
think it's your fault all the time or you think anything you do is going to anger them but that's your fault so it's
01:13:11
you know it's an incredibly lonely and isolated place to be in and and and and
01:13:16
people say you know the thing I get sick of is people say why didn't she just
01:13:21
leave it well you can't like you leave what you you think you've been so so
01:13:28
kind of degraded and so um verbally abused and and you're feeling so low you
01:13:35
you can't just leave it's not as simple as that and it doesn't start with you
01:13:39
people say if a man hit me I would just leave them but the the physical violence
01:13:43
comes a long way down the line you know the the the person or the woman's been
01:13:48
being completely kind of broken emotionally yeah manipulated manipul um yeah people go why didn't you just leave
01:13:56
him well you know firstly where are you going to go you've got no money you've
01:14:00
got no car you you're you're emotionally broken you know it's it's it's hard yeah and you
01:14:07
can see from that note that we talked about earlier that Emily wrote him like she like she she genuinely thought you
01:14:13
know she she cared for him um and it was reci reciprocated in some strange way well this is the other thing you know
01:14:20
you know Turner was he was the life and the soul of the party he was he was Charming
01:14:26
one part of his characteristic he was a narcissist but he was Charming he was he
01:14:30
was funny people like to hang around with him you know he was he was kind of you you could see what the attraction
01:14:37
was originally she was he was kind of in with the In Crowd and Emily's girlfriends were friends with his
01:14:43
friends and and you can see you know what the attraction was originally but uh he was he also had this really nasty
01:14:49
side to him but but a lot of people couldn't believe that this was the person who who killed it because they
01:14:56
just saw that kind of charming caring side of him I'm I'm so pleased he's been um such
01:15:03
a small part of the podcast today more more than what he deserves to be fair but um yeah I wanted this um chat today
01:15:09
to uh yeah be yeah more about Emily really because um yeah I think I think I think that's the thing like um like
01:15:17
we're all going to die at some point and no one wants to be forgotten um so and
01:15:21
you've done such a tremendous job like you know keeping her memory alive yeah
01:15:25
thank really cool um it's not easy to keep it but man I can't imagine I can't
01:15:31
I think you I don't know if this was on the podcast or maybe just before we get
01:15:34
we got into the podcast but you you you said you were taking a step back from the sort of campaigning and oh I yeah I
01:15:42
I did I just because it's too hard not from the campaigning I just like being
01:15:48
like a spokesperson yeah I I I I I still do it and I still do things like this and I still try and get it out there but
01:15:56
when you get involved with something and you start have to get funding for it and
01:15:59
you know you you start having to do certain things and you have certain kpis and that just wasn't what I wanted to do
01:16:06
I just wanted to do my own thing and speak about it from my own personal experience and if I can't qu I can't
01:16:13
quantify whether that's helped someone I I hope it has oh 100% but I I have no
01:16:19
kind of figures to say yeah I saved five lives here when you start get getting funding for things people start that
01:16:25
that so I just I I I step back from that that part of it I just do my own thing now so I can talk to people yeah and if
01:16:33
it helps it helps if it doesn't help it doesn't help but I've got I'm not
01:16:35
worrying about losing funding because I didn't say the right thing uh what would it what would um
01:16:41
Emily think of the work you've done in this uh in this space would she be just
01:16:45
so proud she'd be quite embarrassed that I'm still bangging on about no she
01:16:50
wouldn't would she I think she would in a way yeah yeah she would she would be
01:16:54
she' I I can imagine her saying to me you know just it's time to stop now
01:17:00
just but but also she would be I she what she would be what she would be really proud of is that is if if someone
01:17:10
else benefited from it so if someone out if someone out there's listening to this
01:17:14
podcast or or has watched the documentary or listen to something I've had to say somewhere and and that has
01:17:21
helped them in a sit in a violent situation of their own she would be really happy or or it stops them getting
01:17:28
into a violent situation she would be really happy with that she she was she had this
01:17:33
incredibly caring uh you know if you were at a party standing on your own because you didn't know anyone em would
01:17:41
be the person who went over and and kind of introduce you to people and made sure
01:17:44
you had someone to talk to and so she she would be really happy with that but I think she'd probably be she'd want me
01:17:51
to stop telling the embarrassing stories about her picking up the tarmac and it'd be
01:17:56
like that happened a long time ago yeah yeah yeah yeah oh are you what about you
01:18:01
you proud of yourself uh I don't know if I'm I'm kind of yeah I don't know I don't know
01:18:11
proud's the right word I I I still feel like like part of me hasn't you know honestly hasn't unresolved I wish I
01:18:20
could have done more for Emily and I wish I could have saved her and I wish I somehow had spotted the signs and I wish
01:18:28
I I wish there was something I could have done and I feel really as a father I feel really
01:18:34
um not guilty but I guess I feel a sense of failure that I didn't I couldn't save
01:18:41
her because you know that's what you want to do you just you just want to protect your
01:18:45
kids and so I think part of me is um is maybe trying to atone for that and and so I don't know if I I don't know if I
01:18:55
quite fa does that make sense yeah it makes complete sense but how yeah how do you let go of that you you know it's
01:19:00
completely irrational and it's completely not your fault yeah I know I know I I I don't blame myself but it's
01:19:06
not my fault but I I just you understand it's your role as a a protector I guess
01:19:13
yeah I wish I could have done I wish I could have done something and and you know I didn't know enough about it I
01:19:19
didn't know enough about domestic violence I mean this is another reason why you know someone said to me this is
01:19:24
domestic violence and I'm like what the [ __ ] is that I didn't even know what it
01:19:27
was like what do you mean men kill their Partners I had no idea even though you see it know you see the the Lesser signs
01:19:33
all over the place but I had no idea so and so yeah yeah yeah so so honestly you
01:19:41
know part of me is trying to atone for that like like if I saw Emily I one of the things I would say is
01:19:46
I'm so sorry I couldn't I couldn't do anything it just it really like like
01:19:52
when I saw her on the bed dead for the first time you know were lots of things went through my
01:19:58
head but I I just thought I can't do anything you know when she got in trouble at school I go and see the head
01:20:03
Master sort it out and smooth it over or damage contr you yeah but I just I just
01:20:09
thought I can't do anything I'm just I'm completely useless here I can't there's
01:20:13
nothing I can do to to bring her back and it just really it really it really had an effect an impact on me so I'm you
01:20:23
know in all honesty I'm partly trying to atone for that even though it's probably
01:20:27
quite irrational yeah um mark this has been great thank you so much for sharing he in a in a in a
01:20:36
perfect world we would never even be having this podcast that would be the dream scenario but the next best thing
01:20:42
is um you being here and keeping Emily's uh memory alive and um yeah just shining
01:20:47
it shining a light on um domestic violence I really I really appreciate you having me on here it a real it was a
01:20:53
real honor and a privilege thank you you oh no the the honor is all mine um you're you're a great New Zealander and
01:20:59
um yeah thank you so much for all the work you've done and I my sincere apologies for everything you've been
01:21:03
through mate it's not your fault thank you thank you yeah and thank you for having me on it's it it's good to it's
01:21:10
nice to talk about Emily and you know hopefully someone's listening to this somewhere and thinking my daughter's in
01:21:16
a bit of a bad relationship or my boyfriend's being a bit of an assel and they can they can get some
01:21:23
help for