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Wayne Laden, race director of the TCS Sydney Marathon presented by Essex. Welcome to my podcast.
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>> Thanks, Tom. Nice to speak to you. How are you? >> I'm sensational, mate. I'm fizzing. The
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countdown's on for um Sydney 2025, the first year as a major. This is going to
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be my third year as a competitor, and I'm I I I can't wait. And we'll get into
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the reasons why I can't wait during this chat. But first of all, um, when someone
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asks you what you do, how do you describe your role? >> Jesus, it's pretty diverse actually. Um,
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when I started uh, Pont 3 in 2005, my role could be described as doer of everything almost. But um as we've grown
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um and especially in the last sort of couple of years through the Abbott World Marathon Majors candidacy and now
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becoming a major, we've grown from like I think we had 10 staff. Uh when we started on the on the on the candidacy
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program, we've got about 35 now. So um you know, my role's changed a lot over
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the years. I mean obviously responsible for strategy and commercial strategy and
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and growth um and things like that but what I'm passionate about is is you know
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participant experience and making sure that runners have the best possible time that we you know deliver the best
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possible course we can in in one of the most beautiful cities in the world of course but um you know there's a lot
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more sort of uh mundane tasks of managing a bigger team but a lot of my stuff's around relationships really and
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and building good relationships with government um and building good relationships with partners, commercial
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partners, uh land owners, um service providers and and our staff and team and and and you know the people who are
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actually on the ground delivering the events. So, it's quite diverse. Um I like to know what's going on within the
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business. Um but we've got a great team, a great management team and great core
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team. So, you know, you've also got to give them a little bit of uh a little
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bit of trust and and let them do what they've got to do and and just guide them when when when you need to. But the
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you know, we've got such a great team. It's not it's not hard. Um and they do a
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great job. So, yeah, I you can't describe my role in in one sentence. It's just very diverse.
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>> Reading between the lines of that answer, it sounds like you're a very
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lowflying helicopter keeping keeping an eye across everything. low and low and high. You got to like I
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I don't want to fly too low um because you get caught in the, you know, in the
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weeds too much, but you also got to >> fly pretty high too at times and look
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forward >> um you know um out of the day-to-day sort of clutter and and whatnot that you
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know that goes around delivering an event of this scale. But um yeah, I mean I'm passionate about the job and and the
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event. So I do like to know what's going on, but I don't micromanage. I I mean it
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it would be impossible to micromanage an event the scale of this. >> Um you just don't have enough time. But
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so it's a bit of both. >> Yeah. Yeah. When you first got involved in the Sydney Marathon 20 years ago,
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there was 1,200 competitors, I think, and this year 2025 it's going to be 35,000. Um when an event scales up that
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size, like what are the what are the big differences? Is it 35 times harder? Well, some people suggest that it should
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be easier since I've been doing it so long, but there's always something that
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changes every year, you know, like um from year to year, you might, you know, really nail it um across the board and
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then 20% of things will change like with, you know, Sydney and and any city is a living city and living cities need
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to be maintained and looked after and that means roadways need to be dug up and, you know, Um, other things happen
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throughout the city that just mean you have to be adaptable. Um, I wouldn't say
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it's 30 times the the workload. Uh, it's certainly a lot more. Um, but scaling
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that much, I mean, you do have to think a lot more carefully about, you know, crowd flow. um how people flow through
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your venues, through the public transport system to get to the start. Um you know, from the start line, through
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the course, you know, through the entire course and any pinch points on the course and
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>> after the finish and all of the services that are required to, you know, uh make
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that journey a memorable, you know, an enjoyable and safe one. um you you are you're scaling you know you you you are
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scaling but the principles the same principles apply you're just looking at it with a you know a much bigger lens
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and and you know more people required to deliver it and whatnot and and more you
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know uh equipment and everything else but um you know we you having done it for 20 years we know what we're doing
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but it is definitely different um to 20 years ago and >> I say I had a vision. You know, I knew
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when I when I took over um management and and owning the rights to this event in 2005,
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I knew this event would be special. I knew it had all the hallmark ingredients to become a truly amazing international
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marathon. Um you know, in a great city on a great course with iconic landmarks and finish line.
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I thought we would get to where my vision was a lot earlier than we did. Um, it took me 18 years to grow it from
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1,200 to 5,000 and it took us 3 years to grow it to 35,000. Um, so it's certainly accelerated. Um,
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but yeah, I don't you're not thinking too differently to what you used to.
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You're just thinking at a high at a, you know, bigger scale. >> Yeah. the the funny thing is the um the
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world marathon majors as a series that only started in 2006. So that it was only launched like a year after you took
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over. Um but for for non-runners like what does that mean exactly and why is it a big deal being a world marathon
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major? >> Look I I think there's there's there's a number of things right that's the the world
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marathon major is the most respected most sought after series in the world. the the best organized events with the
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biggest um you know participation numbers in some of the most beautiful cities in the world. Um which makes that
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you know which makes the series attractive. Um the series events themselves are all overs subscribed so
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there's really strong demand. Um, I think the Abbott World Marathon Majors and the creation of the series and the
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six-star medal added a really nice new element to link all the events together in a more meaningful way. Um, and create
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that sort of tangible thing to chase for runners to stay within the, you know, the series framework, um, and, you know,
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pursue all of the events in the series and not just do one or two and drop out and go and do different races. So gave a
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a focal point for runners to um chase and achieve something pretty special. >> Um
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you know that demand too like from from from our perspective and and from our key partners' perspective like the New
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South Wales government and destination New South Wales who have been big supporters of ours for a long time. the
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the impact of becoming an Abbott World Marathon major um from a visitation perspective is incredible. Like it's
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chalk and cheese. You you cannot describe the growth in economic activity that comes with us becoming an Abbott
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world marathon major. And I'll give you an example. Um, sort of pre precoid, say
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in 2019, we were we were um we were delivering about 5,000 to 5,300 in the marathon. Um, and our international
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numbers were, you know, they were reasonable. We were getting, you know, a couple of thousand runners from overseas
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and economic impact was a nice 15 million um each year. Um, really great. Um however when you start talking about
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you know a 35,000 person field in the marathon of which 60% of them are coming from outside of New South Wales um and
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they're bringing sort of two three four people with them and staying 5 to 10
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days then the economic impacts you know it just goes through the roof. We're
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talking about, you know, this year something like $150 million in economic activity for the state of New South
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Wales. Not to mention the the destination promotion of our city throughout the world and the running
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community through the broadcast generally um and through social media channels. So the attraction of becoming
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an Abbott world marathon major um is significant. Um and what comes with that then is additional investment um from
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government. Um and they've been unbelievably supportive. Um and a massive increase in commercial interest
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from sponsors um and that additional revenue allows us to do stuff on the course that we could never do before. So
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we can really enhance the participant experience. Um and you know make that journey fun and memorable and all these
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sort of really cool things that we want to do and have wanted to do for a long time. But you need a big budget to be
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able to do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um a slightly selfish question here. Um I I'm a six-star
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finisher. Um is the medal going to change? Is there going to be like a sevenstar finisher medal?
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>> Yes. So what um what the strategy is um as you might know Dom there's two other
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races in the candidate program and the goal um is for a nine race series. Um so what what the Abbott World Marathon
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majors are doing is keeping the six-star medal as it is and then once Cape Town passed this year and we expect that they
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will excuse me and um Shanghai having just come into the into the candidacy program last year. Um assuming they pass
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this year and next year once there's nine races in the series then the Abbott
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World Marathon Majors will release a nine-star medal. >> Oh my god, my mom's going to be
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devastated when I tell her this. She's um 73. She's a six-star finisher. She's
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still running. Um she's she might have to keep going until she's 80. Right.
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>> Well, mate, you know what? It's amazing now. Like, Dom, it's incredible how
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times have changed and how people, you know, are running so much further into their lives. They're they're living
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healthier lifestyles and technology and whatnot. And you know, seeing the number
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of people who might have dropped out of running at a much younger age, still continuing on that journey and living
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nice, healthy lives and still doing these races is incredible. >> Yeah. What's what's your relationship
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with running now? Cuz I did a bit of research on you. Um you're you know, you're not you're not a suit, you're not
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an admin guy. Like you're a you're a bloody good runner. You're a 216
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marathoner. Um just about qualified for the Olympics, but missed out due to injury. You've been to world cross
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country champs. Um, do you get FOMO on race day now, but you were so busy that you can't take part?
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>> I tell you, Dom, every year it's one of my I'm so jealous when I send the
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runners off at the start line wanting to be able to take part in the event. Not not that I am anywhere near as fit as
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what I was when when I was a lot younger, but I just love running. Dom like running's been a part of my life
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since I was 12 years old and it's helped me through a lot of um difficult times
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over the years. Um and you know taken me places that I would never have gone before and introduced me to people that
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I would never have met before. Um and it definitely changed my life in a really positive way. Um, and you know, to be
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able to continue that relationship with running post a running career is a really special opportunity um, for me.
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And I feel like I owe a lot to running because running's done so much for me.
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And I I love my job. Like I just love it every single day. I'm excited to go to
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work. I love, you know, using all of the experience that I have to be able to um,
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you know, deliver an event that's has meaning and and that people enjoy. But I
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am jealous every single year when that gun gets fired and they go running off on this most beautiful marathon course
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in the world and then I'll duck over to that finish line and see everyone coming
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down to the four quarter of the opera house and that backdrop that they're running towards and think I would just
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really love to do that one day. It's not going to happen while I'm race director.
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Um but maybe one day. Uh I have committed this year though. Um, I will have the opportunity this year for the
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first time to run in one of our events on the Saturday in the mini marathon. So, I'm going to do that um for a couple
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of reasons. One, I want to just see what the experience is like on this new new new new format on the Saturday in the
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new course, but two, I haven't done it before, so I want to experience what everyone else does, albeit it in a
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shorter format. But I'm really excited about that, mate. >> Yeah. What What are you um what are you
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more proud of? like your achievements as a runner or the the achievements as a race director. They're both really
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impressive. >> That's easy. I'm a way better race director than I was a runner. Um I was a
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reasonable runner who went into four world cross country champs and won an Aussie title in cross and you know got a
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couple of medals in other Aussie champs and and whatnot and did a few fast times. But I'm a 10 times better race
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director than I ever was runner. And I'm really passionate about it and you you
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you know the good thing about that is I can have some longevity in this in this uh career too. So it doesn't matter if
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you get injured. Um you can just keep on going. But no I m there's no question
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about where my best ability lies and that is in organizing events. It's that's what I do and what I love and and
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that unique background that I have I think helps out a lot. >> Yeah. 32 years as a race director,
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starting with the um assistant race director role in the 1993 iconic uh City to Surf. What's what's remained the same
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and what has changed as race director in that time? >> I'm thinking like when you first started
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like you know cheating wouldn't have been an issue. No GPS mats, nothing like
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that, no technology really. No, I remember I remember the first day I started at Fairfax um working um under
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Ray Drury who was the Ray who was the operations sort of director of City to Surf and he had a paper um map out of
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Sydney and he had a bit of string and I've I've gone up to him I said what are
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you doing Ray he's going I'm measuring the course for the half marathon cuz
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we've got to you know set up a new course for the half I've gone you're
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doing it with a piece a string. It's gone, yeah, yeah, that'll just sort of
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get it pretty close and then, you know, we'll measure it later. But, you know, I
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found the other day, even um back into the late 90s, I found a paper entry form the other day, which was 12 pages long
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um that people used to have to you fill out and mail into our offices at Fairfax. And then there were like 12 um
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ladies who were employed to transcribe the paper entries into a an old computer system. Um you know the timing mats
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weren't there. There was no social media. We were sending out entry forms to gyms and you know run clubs and all
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sorts of things like this. It was very analog. Um so you know starting from that point to where we are now like
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there's been an incredible amount of change and and it's good um you know
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needed to happen but you know the technology you know over the years has facilitated the growth of running and
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the you know professional delivery of running and and other sports as well. But um no it's chalk and cheese mate.
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It's nothing like what it used to be that's for sure. >> Yeah. So g give us an idea of the
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process um to become a world marathon major. Like what is just some of the criteria you had to meet?
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>> Um so basically there's 104 point criteria which covers a range of different areas.
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Without going getting too much into the specifics cuz there's some restrictions
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on how how much detail I can give. Um, you know what they look at is really important things like first and
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foremost, you know, is is the city a city that will be attractive to the global running community is important.
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Is the city a safe city? Is the climate um suitable to marathon running? Um, is the event supported by government and
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agencies? um you know these are sort of I guess baseline um components and then they look across the entire delivery of
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the event. So you know um the course uh capacity of the course um can it handle the sort of numbers that will be you
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know you know will be it will be attracting once it becomes an AB world marathon major. What are your medical
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services like? Are they up to scratch? um you know uh athlete services on the course um expo you know a whole range of
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things um and and it's very detailed and they have three assessors who come out
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and observe everything um and they provide feedback to you on every single of the 104 points and they either pass
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you or don't pass you um and you have to pass all of them two years in um to be able to go through and become
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an Abbott World Marathon Major. So um but they're very supportive and the the
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race directors of the other events are very supportive. The Abbott World Marathon Majors are committed to a nine
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race series and they want the candidate racers who are in there and including us
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um when we were candidate race, they wanted us to pass. So >> they share that knowledge that wealth of
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knowledge that that they have um you know with the candidate races and help you know help us get through the
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criteria and improve the events. So they complement the series and that you know
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they're events that um the athletes on the Abbert World Marathon Major's
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journey are going to enjoy and and talk about fondly and um and enhances the whole series. M I I think one thing that
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you guys have done at I've run it the last couple of years as a candidate race
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um and one thing you and your team have done particularly well that you should be so proud of is um you know activating
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the crowd and getting the local people of Sydney that are non-competitors involved because I know um New Zealand
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and Australia I think I think we're kind of sim we're different to the Americans
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and the other world marathon majors where it's not in our DNA to go out and cheer for people we don't know. Um but I
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feel like you guys have sort of um rewired Sydney in that respect and it's been um it's been oh it's given me so
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much pride to see the last couple of years. explain >> and that was one of our biggest
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challenges and and in fact it's a criteria point um uh you know how many spectators you have um so it's important
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and and you know as you know Dom um you know you've done some of the other majors and and one of the biggest points
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of difference between um the TCS Sydney Marathon when we became a candidate race
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and the other world majors is the amount of community support that they have >> out on the streets and you know that and
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the finisher numbers we thought would be the two biggest challenges that we faced. Um now we spent a lot of
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marketing energy strategizing around how do we engage the running community and how do we engage the
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non-running community and that was on two fronts. On one front, it was about how do we get the traditional marathon
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and half marathon or or running community of Australia to step up from what was traditionally a half marathon
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running country. You know, we were all the big races in Australia were getting 12 to 14 15,000 people in halves um but
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they're getting five to seven in the marathon. So, >> one part of it was, you know, how do we
00:21:09
get people to step up? um you know, really fun, creative, tongue-in-cheek campaigns around why would you do half
00:21:16
of anything? Come on, it's time to step up um and run the full. Why would you do
00:21:22
half of anything? Um this sort of stuff. Um and that was assisted greatly by, you
00:21:28
know, coming out of co and a whole lot of new people running who had no preconceived
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um you know, ideas on what a bucket list running event should be. So, you know, all those new runners out of co in run
00:21:41
clubs and whatnot as well. I'm running the Sydney Marathon. So, that part of it
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um looked after itself pretty quickly, but the nonrunning community support of the event um was an area that we felt
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would be a real challenge. So we spent a lot of money on putting entertainment out on the course, communicating with
00:21:59
the community um right across the field of play um very thoroughly um and spent a lot of money on that um trying to
00:22:08
enhance what was on the sidelines um so that people would come out. I mean naturally when you get more runners in
00:22:15
the marathon you're going to get more spectators which is good because the average runner will bring a few people
00:22:20
out on race day to cheer them on. Um, but we've seen really good growth in nonrunning community support and this
00:22:27
year, you know, that's even more important because we want to make a big impact in 2025 as our first Abbott World
00:22:35
Marathon major. And that is probably one of the main reasons why we've invested
00:22:42
in some of the super elite athletes that we have invested in. um you know in particular Elliot Kipchigi and Stfan
00:22:51
Hassan you know these athletes are you know globally recognized athletes that are recognized outside of the running
00:23:01
community and they're probably you know two of the only ones that might be recognized outside of the running
00:23:07
community and have general public um you know uh awareness. So we invested heavily in that to capture the you know
00:23:18
the the attention of Australian media so that every day during race week mainstream media will be down there
00:23:25
filming Elliot filming CFO everyone in Sydney will know that on Sunday the 30th 31st of August the greatest marathon
00:23:34
runner of all time will be running through the streets of Sydney and why don't you bring your kids out to see
00:23:39
this guy and cheer him on and and Stiffon and all the other athletes too. And what I do know is
00:23:47
when they do that once and they bring their kids out once and those kids see those athletes and you know the
00:23:53
excitement those kids will have and the inspiration that they will feel, they're
00:23:57
going to come out every year, right? And it's just going to grow and grow and
00:24:01
grow. So, it's a real strategic investment. Um, not just to have, you know, fast runners um, you know, on the
00:24:08
streets of Sydney racing for quick times and have a having a good race for broadcast. It's about the broad appeal
00:24:14
of the event right throughout the community in Australia and Sydney and and building that support um, that will
00:24:21
just elevate um, us in one year and then hopefully give us a leg up from there to
00:24:27
grow. >> Yeah. Since you dropped a couple of names there, let's um park on that for a
00:24:32
while. Um because this is going to be the third time Elliot Kipchigi and myself go headto-head. I'm hoping to
00:24:37
keep him within an hour, which I've never done before, which is really exciting. Um yeah, you mentioned um
00:24:43
Kipchigi, Hassan, also Bridgy, the you know, former world record holder. Like it's a stacked field. It's just amazing.
00:24:50
What is what is the process? How do you how do you get them over the line? Is it
00:24:53
free tickets to Luna Park? What is it? It's a combination of things, right? Because, you know, in the case of
00:25:02
Elliot, for example, you know, he he has all of the world majors trying to get him to
00:25:11
run in his in their events, right? So, it's not all about money, okay? um for
00:25:17
Elliot who you know has run most of them hasn't won all of them um it came down
00:25:23
to and this is how we pitched it where will you have the most impact right and Elliot's a really special guy
00:25:34
and he you know he's building a legacy and he wants to um have impact in communities he's very passionate about
00:25:43
the power of running um and all of the benefits that that brings to community uh and to people individually. Um and
00:25:52
what we pitched to Elliot is you've never raced in Sydney. Um we're a new
00:25:59
world major. Uh Australian running um you know participation in in Australian marathons is a lot smaller than the
00:26:08
other world majors. The the community support for the Sydney Marathon isn't like the other world majors. This is an
00:26:16
opportunity for you to come and have real impact on the running community in Sydney and Australia. um and positive,
00:26:26
you know, uh community impact with kids. Um you know, right throughout the course
00:26:31
by coming and watching and being on the news and inspiring, um you know, uh people that wouldn't otherwise have seen
00:26:39
the event, um you know, as much as they will that week during you know, the the the end of August when Elliot's in town
00:26:46
and you know, the the whole of Australia is focused on that. So, we pitched that.
00:26:51
He liked it. his management liked it. He agreed to come here. Of course, there's
00:26:55
money involved. Um, but in Elliot's case, it was a bit more about purpose and impact.
00:27:01
Um, yeah, you're probably unable to answer this, but the um the money side of things, is it like in the hundreds of
00:27:07
thousands, the tens of thousands? >> Yeah, I can't really answer that, but
00:27:14
it's look, it's not a small investment. um you know you just I guess to put it
00:27:20
in perspective he's the most recognized marathon runner in the world um globally
00:27:26
recognized outside of the the running community and by all media um so you know the impact he has and and will have
00:27:37
is is important and therefore uh he commands a you know a a fair and and reasonable fee would be how I would put
00:27:47
it. Um, but it's not a small amount of money. >> Do you think do you think the um like
00:27:51
from conversations you have with um like say the average Australian, maybe someone that just doesn't really know
00:27:56
much about running, is there an appreciation yet of just what a big deal this is? I mean, the guy's a game
00:28:01
changer, right? I think there I think there will be more appreciation of the impact of Sydney
00:28:11
becoming becoming an Abbott world marathon major after the event. >> I think you know and you will have seen
00:28:18
this Dom and it's happening not just in Australia but right around the world the
00:28:22
massive growth of running throughout the world has been incredible. Um there's
00:28:29
and you know massive growth in entirely new demographics that being the 25 to 35
00:28:36
year olds which were traditionally a much smaller group that the growth in that sort of age range has been the
00:28:44
strongest. Um what we are seeing is running becoming part of mainstream media now.
00:28:56
um where it's spoken about on news on you know um talk shows and whatnot as you know as football might be spoken
00:29:06
about and it's generally widely recognized as something that people are doing much more are passionate about um
00:29:15
you know are building communities right across the country um that are healthy that are fun um and there's just a
00:29:24
massive shift in you know the positive sentiment recognition awareness um of running around Australia throughout the
00:29:32
community and throughout the media. Now what I think will happen after this year's event is
00:29:39
people will see the impact, the excitement, the massive amount of media, um you know the reporting of the success
00:29:47
of the event after um you know the positive economic impacts and and everything else. Um I think then it will
00:29:55
sink in. Wow, this is really special. Um this is really important. this is doing
00:30:01
good stuff for the community and the state of New South Wales and Australia. Uh, and it's positive and healthy and
00:30:07
good for the community. So, that's what I think will happen. Um, but it'll
00:30:11
happen off the back of the fact that running now is part of the mainstream vernacular and discussion points of
00:30:19
media and the community where it just wasn't before before co. Oh, mate. I was
00:30:25
saying to someone the other day, this is the first time in my life that I've been
00:30:28
um I've been ahead of the curve when it comes to something cool. You know, I've been running for like 20
00:30:34
years and suddenly it's become a cool thing and I I it feels awesome. >> Well, it is. Yeah, that's right. I mean,
00:30:42
we've gone Yeah, it it's totally shifted and that's great. You know, it's cool.
00:30:46
People are using run clubs for social activities now and they're getting everything they want um out of doing one
00:30:54
thing that they might have needed to do three different things for like going to
00:30:58
the bar or going to a club, going to the gym, um you know, and everything else. It's all sort of wrapped up nicely in
00:31:04
one activity that's cheap, affordable, convenient, um that's efficient in terms
00:31:09
of getting you healthy. Um and they're fun and social. And that's the greatest
00:31:14
thing about these new run clubs that just wasn't around before is that they've really nailed that social and
00:31:21
community aspect to their run clubs. And I think it's amazing. I think they've
00:31:26
done an incredible job and they're, you know, they've gone a long way to, you
00:31:30
know, building this whole growth of running. >> Yeah. Can you remember the moment you
00:31:36
found out um that Sydney had been accepted and was the world's seventh marathon major? Like was it a was it a
00:31:41
big moment or was it a slowm moving slow moving? You know, you know what I mean?
00:31:47
>> Uh yeah, I do. I do remember. I look I I knew pretty well when the last person
00:31:55
crossed the finish line that we' nailed the criteria pretty well. I had to wait
00:31:59
for a few make sure reports came back in from the course that things went well out there, but I was pretty confident
00:32:05
that we ticked all the boxes. Um and the feedback we got immediately after the race because you do like a hot what they
00:32:12
call a hot debrief, right? So they get all of the team into a room afternoon of the race to do just a hot debrief 45
00:32:20
minutes um covering all the key points and the feedback we got um was really positive. So I was confident. I was I do
00:32:29
remember the phone call I got from Donna Stone who's the CEO of the Abbott World
00:32:34
Marathon Majors. I was driving the car with the family and um Donna said, "Uh,
00:32:39
what are you doing?" Said, "I'm just driving the kids back from rugby
00:32:43
training." She said, "I'll pull over." So, I pulled over and she told me. Um,
00:32:49
>> wow. >> It was pretty special. I uh was very memorable. And then I couldn't tell
00:32:54
anybody for eight weeks other than my key staff because it could not get out until the New York City Marathon. um
00:33:05
where it was going to be announced. It was probably the worst kept secret in in running to be honest in the end. But um
00:33:12
you know that day at the TCS New York City Marathon in November last year, it took our management team over and
00:33:20
getting up on that stage and uh putting our number seven hat on the stage. >> Wow.
00:33:26
>> And being awarded the being awarded the the number seven plaque. Um that was
00:33:32
really cool. um you know a moment in life that you'll remember forever. Um you know yeah it was really special. It
00:33:42
was it was very emotional. Um the team you know obviously we worked really hard and it was stressful and you know we
00:33:49
spent everything we had on making it through candidacy you know every single scent. like we didn't make a profit for
00:33:57
years because we invested everything back into making it into the Abbott World Marathon majors you know and again
00:34:04
going back I I just want to reiterate the support of the New South Wales government and destination New South
00:34:09
Wales and our partners if we didn't have that we would not have gone near >> making the criteria and becoming the
00:34:15
seventh ever world marathon major. So, um, that was really important. But, yeah, mate, that phone call I got from
00:34:21
Dorna, I remember vividly pulling over and her telling me. Um, and then the ceremony at New York City Marathon was
00:34:28
just a really special celebration, you know, of achievement and blood, sweat, and tears and happiness and and all
00:34:35
those things. >> Oh, and and decades of hard work. Um, oh my god, eight weeks is a cruel length of
00:34:41
time to hang on to a secret. That's really mean. Um, and it's really nice that you um you
00:34:47
gave some flowers before like to the um you know the government um for the work that they've done because like getting
00:34:53
the um the Sydney the iconic Sydney Harbor Bridge shut down for a few hours like I like I can't imagine that's an
00:34:58
easy thing to do. Is that what's your favorite part of the course? >> I look I think my favorite part of the
00:35:08
course when I say I should say my favorite part of the day. So, my two favorite parts of the day is easy and
00:35:16
and and for me and and then I'll go on to the course in a minute, but my two
00:35:20
favorite parts of the day are about the different emotions you feel from the runners. Now, when I get to the start
00:35:28
line, I walk through the venue, I walk through the start areas, you know, I, you know, I'm there observing everything
00:35:36
that's happening. And the energy you feel at the start line and walking through the venue when people are
00:35:42
stretching and getting ready to embark on this journey for a lot of people is something that they have never done
00:35:51
before that they are nervous about um that there's anxiety. You can feel it in
00:35:57
the air. Um, and it's just this really sort of nervous but positive energy and
00:36:05
you know, people positively talking to each other about, you know, you can do it, you've got this, and all that sort
00:36:11
of stuff. That's really cool. I love that. That anticipation and everyone's
00:36:15
just waiting on the start line for the gun to go and then they're off, you know? Then it's just them and the road,
00:36:22
right? That part of it I really love. Um and then equally um equally I love the finish line and
00:36:31
the reason why I love the finish line is is also about emotion. Um and that is as
00:36:37
opposed to the start line where it's anxiety and fear and anticipation. The finish line it's relief, pride, um you
00:36:46
know joy and all these sorts of things that are sort of opposite to what you feel at the start. So those two emotions
00:36:53
of the participants and and remember what I said before, you know, it's all about the participant experience and
00:37:00
we're we're here to put on an event for the people who are running in that
00:37:04
event, right? And deliver something special to the city. So those two parts of the event are the most special parts
00:37:10
of the event. Now the course the the the parts of the course I mean s look Dom you've run it. I I think the TCS Sydney
00:37:19
Marathon is possibly one of the most beautiful marathon courses in the world. It's not one of the easiest, but it's
00:37:26
definitely one of the most beautiful. Now, Sydney Harbor Bridge, right, that's
00:37:30
hard to beat. We do we close the Harbor Bridge from 4:00 a.m. till midday. Um, so yeah, that that is hard to do. Um,
00:37:36
but you got so many things to look at on the course that distract you on your journey. Um, really beautiful parts of
00:37:44
we we go past every single icon. um you know, St. Mary's Cathedral, Lady McQuary's Chair, the harbor itself, um
00:37:51
you know, Centennial Parklands and all of these beautiful areas of Sydney. And then of course the Sydney Opera House is
00:37:57
is the most special finish line in the world in my opinion. Um so yeah, there's
00:38:04
just so much to do and see in that race that um you know, create memories that you'll have forever. And and you know, a
00:38:12
lot of people say to me, "We were worried about this being a really tough course and it not being enjoyable at
00:38:21
all." And and nearly all of them, you know, when I speak to them again, they
00:38:24
go, "It wasn't anywhere near as tough as what I thought. The hills themselves are
00:38:28
are not steep hills. They're gradual hills. They're it's still hilly, but
00:38:32
they just said it was just awesome. We loved it." It's like, and some of them
00:38:36
go, "We ran a lot faster than what we thought we'd run." and some of them run
00:38:40
PBS too. So, you know, it's just a it's just a beautiful journey through a city
00:38:45
um a beautiful city in a in a great country. Um you know, and doing something that people love and and
00:38:50
having amazing time, but >> yeah, so much mate. I could talk I could talk forever about how what I love about
00:38:55
the Sydney Marathon and Sydney and Australia for sure. >> Yeah. Um one thing that's really special
00:39:00
is yeah, crossing the Harbor Bridge when you're still fresh. It's like 2 km into
00:39:03
it, so you're feeling good. Um the finish line, everyone's kind of rooted
00:39:07
by that point. That's a That's a by That's a controversial hot take you had
00:39:10
before saying it's the best of best of the um the majors finishing spots. That's a that's a big shout.
00:39:19
>> Yeah, Berlin's going to be pissed off. Well, I do have a I have a I have a
00:39:22
running >> I have a running I have a running uh friendly um banter with Hugh Brachia
00:39:30
from London Marathon who who very adamantly states that the the the castle the um the the the palace backdrop at
00:39:39
London Marathon is definitely better than Sydney, he says. But what I say to that is but the runners get to look at
00:39:45
the opera house when they're finishing and that's what they're running towards.
00:39:49
um and it's a lot closer. So yeah, there's a good fun banter between the
00:39:53
rest directors like >> whilst they all support each other um incredibly and and work together on how
00:40:01
to strategically grow and improve the series um in a real cooperative uh friendly um robust way. There's also
00:40:11
they're also they're like athletes these race directors. They are like athletes
00:40:14
and they are competitive and they definitely want their race to be the best, the fastest, the most beautiful,
00:40:22
the best organized, the biggest. Um, they're very competitive. They they are
00:40:26
elite athletes of of event management for sure. So there is there is banter. Um, but that's okay. I stand by it. I
00:40:33
still think Sydney's the best. >> Actually, you do raise a really good
00:40:36
point. Yeah. So for anyone that doesn't know London, you run past Buckingham
00:40:39
Palace and then it's like 300 meters to the finish. Same as Berlin, you run through the Brandenburg Gates and then
00:40:43
it's like another 400 meters to the finish. So, you've got you're back to
00:40:46
these um iconic landmarks. Yeah. Okay. I'll give you I'll give you a point for
00:40:50
that one. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Hey, um it's it's getting harder and
00:40:55
harder to get into. Like we had a a ballot system last year for this year's event. Uh what what's the future vision
00:41:00
for Sydney? Is it going to be ballots, qualifying times like Boston? What's what's the plan?
00:41:09
So yeah, like this year was the first year we held a ballot for uh the 2025 event
00:41:17
which we opened in December 2024. Um and that was important because we wanted to capture what the full demand for
00:41:28
running in the TCS marathon was as we became an AB world marathon major. And the best way to do that is to open a
00:41:36
ballot. so you can determine who wants to run. Um, now that's not just important for that reason, but it it
00:41:43
it's it allows us to be able to look forward and be able to plan ahead at what we think um growth will look like
00:41:52
and how we manage growth, right? So, there's real strategic importance in in
00:41:57
the case of us doing our first ballot. Um secondly, um you know, a ballot allows us to, you know, see where people
00:42:08
are coming from and and make sure we've got a nice spread of people um from around the world, uh and throughout
00:42:15
Australia. Um where it will go moving forward is similar to what we're doing
00:42:21
now, right? And that is, and this is not to say it won't evolve from here. How
00:42:26
we're doing it this year is we we created a new travel program, a new charity program. We had a we introduced
00:42:33
a sub elite program um and allocated spots to those. So I think u it was about 8,000 spots we allocated to travel
00:42:41
and as um uh a number allocated to charity um and to the the subway program and the rest were ballot. Now in terms
00:42:51
of growth, you know, we we jumped from 20 21,000 on the start line last year to uh what we
00:43:02
are wanting to see this year, which is 35,000. >> Amazing. >> Now, that's a big jump in one year. So
00:43:09
we we and and the only way we could do that was to get extra time on the harbor bridge and extra time on the road um and
00:43:17
to to reduce the size of the 10K. So this year for the last time there will be a 10K after the marathon and then
00:43:25
that will be gone because we need that space to accommodate the growth of the marathon. So, um, by having extra time
00:43:34
on the road, um, extra time on the bridge, it enabled us to take those entry numbers, um, and make that big
00:43:42
leap, but still have the same runner density on the course. And that's what's
00:43:45
the important thing, maintaining the the crowd flow and management of the people
00:43:52
throughout the course um, at the same density. So, we will grow. I I mean my plan is to if things go well this year
00:44:01
um you know after getting rid of the 10k next year having another 5,000 um on the
00:44:06
start line next year and just keep adding like that until we get to about 50,000 and that feels like probably
00:44:12
about the right number for us. Um now we might change sub elite programs moving forward. We might introduce age group
00:44:23
more formal age group qualified um sort of categories but we will never go to a Boston like um format where it is
00:44:34
predominantly that the the majority of the entries will still come through the ballot travel and charity programs open
00:44:42
to anyone. >> Thanks for that clarification. Yeah. If you had any tips or advice for Kiwis who
00:44:48
want to try and get a spot for 2026, what would it be? >> Well, firstly, enter the ballot. Um,
00:44:58
that's that's a good starting point. Um, and if you don't get in the ballot, you
00:45:04
know, depending on how fast you are or not, um, then, you know, travel program and charity programs are good options.
00:45:13
Uh, I mean the good thing about, you know, New Zealand being so close to Australia is that the travel program
00:45:20
costs are probably a lot smaller with um, you know, Kiwi packages than they would be from Europe or North America.
00:45:26
So, the investment isn't as much um, as you would have to make if you were going
00:45:31
to New York or, you know, London or whatnot. >> Yeah. >> Um, so they're they're they're different
00:45:35
options. Um, >> get to know a sponsor perhaps. Um, but you know, that's sort of how it's going
00:45:41
to be. And you're right, the demand for the world majors races is incredible.
00:45:46
Like the TCS London Marathon this year opened their ballot on race weekend and had 1.3 or 1.2 1.3 million applications
00:45:57
in their ballot a week later. >> Wow. >> Um, and that's incredible demand. Um,
00:46:02
you know, and that's why it's good that the Abbott World Marathon's major series
00:46:07
is expanding because, you know, there's so many people who want to run in these
00:46:12
races um that can't be accommodated and by adding the, you know, the three races
00:46:18
to the series that you will hopefully keep them within the ecosystem um get them on the journey um and get them
00:46:24
excited about chasing the other ones um instead of maybe, you know, being disheartened and and moving away from in
00:46:30
the series. So, um and and they're all over subscribed. Um which is good for
00:46:35
us. >> Um you know, I'm hoping, you know, we had nearly 80,000 people apply in the
00:46:40
ballot in December. Um the most applications we'd ever had before was 24,500 in 2024. So 80,000 people applied
00:46:49
in, you know, for this year's event. I'm really curious to see what growth there
00:46:54
will be in ballot applications this year. Um and we'll open the ballot at the end of September. the last week of
00:47:00
September this year. So, a lot earlier than last year. So, people need to be mindful of that and keep an eye on that.
00:47:05
We'll obviously be communicating through our channels, but don't miss that ballot
00:47:09
uh window. Uh that's for sure. That's the main thing. >> Yeah. Okay. Thanks for that. I I feel
00:47:14
like you're you you are the Sydney Marathon, so there's no no one no better
00:47:17
person to um answer this question than you, Wayne. But if Sydney Marathon had one defining value or ethos, what would
00:47:23
it be? It's got a few, but if I would say beauty, >> I I think the Sydney Marathon is a
00:47:37
beautiful course um that delivers a beautiful experience in a beautiful city um with beautiful fun people that will
00:47:45
celebrate with you. um we'll talk to you and have a chat and uh there's so many
00:47:50
values that Sydney Sydney siders Australians um and the city in the event offer. Um
00:47:59
well that's one that goes across several of those I would say but you know there's so many reasons to come and run
00:48:05
Sydney. Um >> I would have said I would have said fun if someone asked me I would have said
00:48:11
fun. I think it's um out of all all the majors and I've done all six um It's It's fun. It feels like more of a
00:48:18
community vibe and there's more I don't know. There's just something about the
00:48:21
whole um the whole um CBD area of Sydney. It just feels like more of a party vibe afterwards than other events
00:48:25
for some reason. >> You've nailed one of our key strategies, Dom, and and I've said this publicly and
00:48:33
I've said it to all of the other Abbott World Marathon majors, race directors.
00:48:38
You know, I want Sydney Marathon to be recognized as the most fun Abbott World Marathon Majors event in the world. And
00:48:51
>> we want to not just wave to our participants at the expo, start and the
00:48:57
finish. We want to we want to curate their journey throughout our city. We want to um show them where the great
00:49:06
restaurants are. We we want to and we'll be collaborating with a bunch of retailers and bars and restaurants. We
00:49:12
want to hold our participants hands and celebrate with them after the race with,
00:49:19
you know, we've got Ivy Pool Bar, pool party, and a number of other post-race
00:49:22
functions and activities for people to just have the best time that they can. And as you know, Dom, when people set
00:49:30
their minds to running a marathon, um, you know, often they will, you know, really sacrifice a lot to get there,
00:49:39
like, you know, they'll cut back their drinking, they'll they'll they'll eat
00:49:44
healthy, they'll go to bed early for months, you know, um, and when they finish, you know, that that elation and
00:49:53
joy and happiness and everything else, they want to go and have a good time. and we're gonna help them.
00:49:59
>> Yeah. Well, that's definitely the vibe I've got the last couple of years. It's
00:50:02
bloody great. Um and um instead of just like doing the Kiwi or Australian thing and putting the medal in your pocket,
00:50:08
you sort of wear it around your neck for the evening with um a huge sense of pride.
00:50:13
Yeah. Hey, I mentioned on Instagram that you're coming in, so I've got a couple
00:50:16
of um Instagram questions here. Uh what's something you'd love to improve
00:50:20
or change about the race in the next 5 years? Look, I I think managing the growth of
00:50:32
the event is probably one of the biggest areas of focus for us and making sure that that participant journey throughout
00:50:39
the course, but not just throughout the course, but after they finish is a good one. Um, you know, as we grow, you know,
00:50:46
you got to think a lot more about uh access and uh crowd flow and things like that.
00:50:53
That's something we really need to keep thinking about. Um, you know, in terms
00:50:57
of participant experience during the race, we want to continue to engage the community and build the number of people
00:51:06
out cheering on these runners throughout Sydney um to the point where we are recognized in a similar way to what
00:51:15
London and New York City and the other world majors are recognized and and you know that community support and and and
00:51:23
we want to see the event celebrated throughout the entire community and we want the community even if they're not
00:51:33
running to feel like they're a part of the event uh and bring everyone together
00:51:37
on that day and for the last Sunday in August every year to be recognized as the TCS Sydney Marathon Day and everyone
00:51:46
celebrates it. retailers, you know, uh people along the course, government, our partners, the runners, their families
00:51:54
and friends, the media. Um so that elevation of the event into what will be Sydney Marathon Day, the a day that
00:52:04
everyone celebrates because of everything positive it brings to the community, whether they're runners or
00:52:11
not runners, businesses or, you know, or whatever. >> Oh, and you're going to succeed. know
00:52:16
100% like seeing from where you've where you've come to where you are now, you're
00:52:20
definitely going to tick all those boxes. Um, if you could ban one thing from Race Day Forever, what would it be?
00:52:25
Earpods, costumes, shirtless bros. Man, I look I don't know. Like I I think you know if
00:52:39
people aren't risking the safety of other runners. I I'm sort of go do what
00:52:45
you want to do. Have fun. Enjoy it. Don't risk anyone else's safety. But if
00:52:50
you want to go and take selfies of yourself the entire way around the course, go and take selfies around of
00:52:55
yourself around the course. If you want to listen to music, you know, while you run, listen to music while you run. As
00:53:01
long as you can hear what's going on. Um, you know, I I don't like having too
00:53:07
many rules. I think there's too many rules in society as there is. We want to
00:53:13
make sure that people just can be themselves. We want to be inclusive. We want to welcome everyone from all parts
00:53:22
of the community and we want them all to feel like they are welcome and that they're a part of this community and
00:53:29
their place is there on that day. So that's what's most important to me. Um
00:53:35
and you know everyone I want everyone to come. I want everyone to enjoy everyone
00:53:41
to be themselves to be proud to do something special. I banning what I can't even think of, you know, whatever.
00:53:48
Obviously, you don't like people cheating and things like this, but um you know, just be respectful, have fun,
00:53:54
support each other, you know, be one on that day. >> I love that. That's the most Australian
00:53:59
answer ever. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just do it. Have a good time. I love it. I love it so much. Um
00:54:06
if we made a Netflix drama about the Sydney Marathon, what would the title be? And who's playing you? Russell Crow.
00:54:13
I reckon we could get Russell Crow as well. >> Russell Crow. >> I don't know about that. Maybe Jack
00:54:21
Nicholson. Um >> Jack Nicholson. Oh, come on. >> Eric Eric Banner, I reckon. Eric Banner,
00:54:28
Hugh Jackman, or Russell Cro. >> Old old and great. >> Yeah. >> Up a bit there, mate. But uh maybe
00:54:37
a title. I don't know. >> Number seven. >> Number seven. Yeah. If for any Kiwis listening to this that
00:54:45
um um you know obviously cannot get a place this year um why should they still come over and watch?
00:54:55
>> There's still a lot of Kiwis running. Um I've got to check the exact numbers but
00:54:59
the it's a nice easy ride. You know it's it's you know you'll probably know
00:55:04
people running. It's you know airfare is pretty cheap at the moment um across the
00:55:08
ditch and um you all know Sydney. We all we'll whilst we love to banter with each
00:55:14
other and and give each other a bit of a rib um we we always love each other and
00:55:18
you know um you'll have a good time. So come over come over and get some inspiration, cheer on your mates and
00:55:24
come and have a good time, have a good weekend, go for go to some of the shakeout runs, be a part of it and look
00:55:29
forward to, you know, hopefully getting in next year. But um yeah, why not? It's
00:55:33
like >> it's we're just so close. Why wouldn't you? just like someone flying from
00:55:38
Melbourne to Sydney to have a look a little bit more than that. But um >> yeah, it's this is such a great weekend.
00:55:44
I think it's it's going to be one of those defining moments in running on the
00:55:48
31st of August when we do deliver, you know, Australia's and Oceanania's first
00:55:53
Abbott World Marathon Major. And you know, Kiwis have been a big part of this event for a long time. They've always
00:55:59
been in the top three countries of participation. traditionally not now um because we're getting big numbers out of
00:56:05
North America and Europe and and other places, but Kiwis have been a big part of this event for a long time.
00:56:11
>> Yeah, mate. The the ribbing that you're talking about, I can tell you that's
00:56:14
that's rooted in a deep jealousy. Like our flagship beach, Takapuna, hasn't got
00:56:18
anything on Bondai. I'm I'm admitting that on the record here and now today.
00:56:24
>> Also, the um >> I'm a manly I'm a manly beach guy myself.
00:56:29
the um the Kip Chigi factor like I know we uh talked about him in a bit of um length earlier on but I I can't think of
00:56:35
many other sport in the world where an ordinary everyday you know weekend warrior um can take part on the the same
00:56:42
course or the same playing as the same day as the world's best. It's a unique
00:56:46
opportunity. >> Yeah, it you know it really is. And that I think that one of the main attractions
00:56:54
of running and running events and the marathon is exactly that when you compare it to other sports like you know
00:57:02
rugby, like league um or any ball sport um as a sport um you know they have a lot of people who go and watch which is
00:57:12
good >> um you know and and and that's nice but what we have is a lot of people who take
00:57:18
part who are so emotionally engaged in running and the event because they are participants just the same as
00:57:29
Kip Chigi is right and that level of engagement if you think about an audience and there's an interesting
00:57:34
sidebar to this >> um Dom and that is that commercial the the number of non-endemic
00:57:43
commercial brands that are now coming to us out of the blue that would never have
00:57:49
spoken to us before because they've finally realized that this well one this
00:57:56
this sport has scale now. >> Um but not only does it have scale um and eyes uh on social media channels and
00:58:04
and broadcasts and whatnot. It has passionate participants who are fully engaged in the event uh who read
00:58:13
everything who open everything. um you know and you know running and the Sydney Marathon
00:58:21
now is an extremely >> um attractive commercial proposition for non-endemic brands that would never have
00:58:31
been involved um in the sport in the past because of this and this fact that people are you know they're doing it
00:58:38
they're passionate that you know they'll read everything um and that's a unique
00:58:43
>> perspective for a commercial brand that's used to waving to an audience
00:58:47
through a broadcast or on a sideline and they can go up and shake their hand um you know and have a conversation and
00:58:53
it's completely different You must be proud of yourself. Do you do you do you stop and smell the
00:58:59
roses at all or you just tunnel vision ahead all the time? >> Look, I my mind goes a million miles an
00:59:09
hour. Um I'm I'm proud of what Pont 3 has achieved as a company. I'm proud of
00:59:18
team um and how we've grown and what we've achieved. As you know, you know, it's not one
00:59:27
person. I just happen to be the head of the company and and the race director and have had this vision for a long
00:59:34
time. But you know, the talent that we brought in or the IP that we've built
00:59:39
over the years and experience that we've gained and the talent that we've brought
00:59:43
in that enabled us to jump from what was a great city event to becoming an Abbott
00:59:49
World Marathon major. Um, I'm really proud of that and what we've developed
00:59:54
together. Um, you know, uh, so yeah, I I am proud of it. I do reflect on it every
01:00:00
now and then, but I am always looking forward. Always. Um, and it's just how I
01:00:06
am. I'm I'm like my mind is three, four, five years ahead or more um all the time
01:00:11
and it just spins spins fast. >> Well, it's uh it served you really well.
01:00:18
Um I'm proud to be involved with it as as an ambassador and it's been just
01:00:21
wonderful watching the growth of the event over the last um two years and I can't see where it goes in the next, you
01:00:26
know, 2 years, 5 years and beyond that. Um one last question to finish with. What's more exhausting? Running a
01:00:32
marathon in 2 hours 164 seconds or behind the scenes running an event like this?
01:00:40
>> I would run the marathon any day of the week ahead of race directing the
01:00:46
marathon. Um because your marathon starts as the race director months before uh race week like you literally
01:00:56
do not sleep. you like I it would be rare that I would get an hour's sleep the night before the race and I'm on
01:01:03
site by 2:00 a.m. sometimes earlier every year because I wake up and once you're you're awake you're you're you're
01:01:09
on. So my race starts on race day at 2:00 a.m. Uh it doesn't finish till 1000
01:01:15
p.m. Um and there's a lot of stress, a lot to think about. Um you know your anxiety levels are high. um you know
01:01:23
obviously through doing it for years you learn how to manage that and and now we've got a bigger team some of that
01:01:30
responsibility is shared um you know far far more widely which is good but I would run the race any day over race
01:01:39
directing it and without question >> although as race director you don't have
01:01:43
to have any gels on race day which is a which is a plus >> well you know what actually Funny you
01:01:52
should mention that because we were talking we talk about, you know, our staff's well-being and making sure you
01:01:59
have sunscreen, you drink, you eat, getting food packages out to volunteers who are out on the course for seven or
01:02:05
eight hours. That's the the the nutritional requirements of race directing or volunteering or anything
01:02:11
else just as important as the nutritional requirements of the runners. Not that we are going for high
01:02:18
performance fast times, but we've got to keep people on their feet for >> you know literally 8 10 hours like
01:02:24
that's a long time. That's two hours longer than the or hour and a half longer than the the cuto off time. So
01:02:29
>> nutrition is important though different. Yeah, very different. >> Hey, well done Wayne Laden. You are a
01:02:35
true blue Aussie legend mate and congratulations for everything you've done and um yeah, hopefully we get to
01:02:40
meet at the end of August this year. It' be wonderful to connect in real life.
01:02:45
Yeah, know I look forward to meeting you, mate. I'm I'm I'm I look forward to
01:02:49
hearing about your experience this year and the changes that we've made and um
01:02:53
that feedback from runners for us is is crucially important. But mate, thanks for your support, too. Um thanks to all
01:02:59
the Kiwis who are coming over who supported us over the years and and I look forward to, you know, seeing you
01:03:05
all here as an Abbott World Marathon major at some point. So, thanks. Thanks for having me on, Dom.
01:03:11
>> Legend. Cheers, mate. I'm stealing that hat if I see you in person.
01:03:17
>> I might I might I might save one for you, mate, if you're lucky. We'll we'll
01:03:21
see how we go. >> Oh, you're a legend. Wayne Laden, race director for the TCS Sydney Marathon
01:03:27
powered by Essex. Thanks so much, mate. >> Cheers, mate.